Billy Broas | The Five Light Bulbs That Clarify Your Message

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When we take people through our programs and with the
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five light bulbs, and we're asking these questions like what
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are your light bulbs? And it doesn't add up. It's
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all confusing his contradictions in there and everything. So it's like, Okay,
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hold the phone. Why are we spending time posting on
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LinkedIn where we're not even clear in our marketing message,
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let alone the people strolling like crazy down their feet
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on LinkedIn. What are the chances that they're going to, hey,
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get our message and be signed up with us? So
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to me, simplicity is doing the minimum force for the
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maximum impact, and for me, that starts with figuring out
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what this argument is that you're making.
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Marketing can feel overwhelming, especially when you're a small business
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owner wearing all the hats. In this episode, I chat
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with Billy Bro's about his five light Bulbs framework, a
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simple practical way to clarify your message, connect with your customers,
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and make marketing feel less like guestwork and more like strategy.
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Whether you're a solopreneur or scaling to seven figures, this
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conversation is all about doing less with more impact, making
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your marketing actually work. My name is doctor Flee Mall
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your co host of the session, and I'm really happy
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to be here today with Billy Bros.
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Welcome, Hey Flee, thanks for having me. Oh, we're thrilled
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to have you.
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And you know, we've really been employing your wisdom and
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your marketing strategies and our company. Now I'm excited to
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explore this further and learn more in conversation with you today.
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Marketing can often feel overwhelming, as was mentioned in your
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bio there, especially for small business owners here. And you know,
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small business owners were often very focused on building our
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product or our service, which we're very proud of. We
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just need to get it out in the world and the
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whole world of marketing. It just seems so complex and
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expensive and difficult and difficult to juggle along with all
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the other roles we have as an entrepreneur. And so
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how does your five light bulbs framework simplify all this
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for the small business owner, the solopreneur, or even an
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entrepreneur that maybe has a six figure business going to
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seven or even wants to take a seven bigger business
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day figures.
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Yeah, and your viewer or if you're listen to this, well,
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I'm sure I agree that marketing is overwhelming. I think
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it's very overwhelming. And I'm deep in the trenches of
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this percussion. And so there's this role that I don't
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think is often enough appreciated. There's this role of the
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business owner who wears a marketing hat as well sales hat,
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marketing hat. Yeah myself as well, Yeah, right back at you.
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And it's just it's not appreciated, and some people try
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to avoid it as well. And look, I'm guilty as
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that that as well. Okay, I just delegate this. If
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I build my product and it's just good enough, people
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will talk about it. I don't have to put on
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that marketing hat. People will just arrive at my door
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and not going to get in. I have accepted that
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you have to wear that hat. So it's like, okay,
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if you accept that that we need to do marketing
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to reach whatever our full potential looks like for us
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and to hit our goals, then you have to wear
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that marketing hat. And then if you're going to wear
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that marketing hat, I asked, well, how can we make
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that as easy, painfree and as successful as possible? And
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that's really where the five lack bulbs came from.
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Let's just walk through this framework. So can you just
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start us off, start off with the person one and
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walk us through.
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Sure. So the five light pops is a core messaging framework,
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and so you create your core message and then you
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distribute it across through different marketing assets like your website, Facebook, as, emails,
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et cetera. Like Bulb one in this framework is your
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customer status quo. So this is where your customer is
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right now. This is where they're having a problem. It's
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a place they want to get away from. And so
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what you want to do in your marketing message is
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give voice to your light bulb one. You want to
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use the word you instead of we. You want to
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have empathy for your prospect. This light bul one is
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the language of empathy.
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Well, this is disconnecting with their pain, with their challenges,
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with their problems. And this could I wonder if there's
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a difference on how we focus on let's say, problem
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unaware folks versus problem aware of folks and then solution
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aware of folks. You know, really that first light bulb
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of addressing their pain in an empathic way, so they
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do feel like this message is meant for them exactly.
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Yeah, it's that great saying it's in I learned from
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copywriting that if you can acknowledge and describe your prospect's
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problem even better than they can, they're going to naturally
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assume that you have a solution.
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And so how do you encourage people to go about
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that to get in touch with Let's I have a product.
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I think it's great for people. I know it's going
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to change people's lives, But how do I learn about
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really so I can speak to their problem, to their
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challenge that my problem is going to designed to solve
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my service or probably is designed to solve that. How
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do I learn to speak their language about that problem?
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Yeah? Yeah, it's two answers. The first one is what
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I find in working with these business owners wearing a
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marketing hat is that problems that they don't know their
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customer's problems is that the words just aren't on the page.
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So I would encourage the person listening to this to
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go through and do a mental audit and ask yourself,
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do I know these five light bulbs for one and
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two are the words on the page? And I found
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that a lot most business owners know the problems of
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their prospects or their customers, but they're just not giving
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voice to it on their website, emails, etc. So that's
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the first answer. If you do that, and what you
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know is reflected in your marketing material so that you
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are turning on that light bulb one, then you might ask, Okay,
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how can I more to your question? Not can I
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get a better idea of these problems and learn the
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words that they use? And really the answer is listening
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and that can take all forms, through social media comments,
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through sales calls, through product delivery calls, coach calls, through
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directly reaching out and to a priced client or customer
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and saying, hey, can I just talk to you? I
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just want to learn about you and just walk me
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through when you use product like hours and then you
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just listen and here are the words that they use
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and where they get caught up and then all that
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is input. Then they can then plug back into your
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five light bulbs so that the next time you go
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to create marketing material, it's improved. It's so much richer
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because of these new insights.
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Okay, So in the first light bulb, we're connecting with
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our prospect, our perspective, client, our customers, real problem, what
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our product is designed to solve for them? Or the
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need are products designed to meet for them? So then
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what's the second step. What's the second light bulb?
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Second light bulb is light bulb two, which represents the
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other options that your prospect has tried before or is
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currently using or considering. So is this where we're.
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You know, we're kind of getting into the solution aware space,
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but we're trying to distinguish our solution from others to
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stand out or make the argument. I know you kind
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of talk about there's almost a process of kind of
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having to make an argument over time to give our
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prospect the belief that our solution is a solution for them.
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Yes, exactly. The five lepos is an argumentation based framework,
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so it takes the structure of an argument and not
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like a you know, throw your phone across the room
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kind of an argument, but a rhetorical argument where you're
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making claims and backing them up with proof. And that
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really starts to tie in at light bulb two, because
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what you're doing is you're identifying those other options that
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your customer has and you're not throwing rocks at them
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or just saying, oh, well, stink, but you're making an argument.
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You're saying, look, for what you're looking for. Here's what
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those other options provide, here's why they're insufficient, and then
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that naturally sets you up. That naturally leaves your option,
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which we can get into your light bulb three, as
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the only logical conclusion for them after they have bought
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into that argument that you put forth.
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Why don't think I've given us an example of maybe
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light bulb two what the messaging might sound like there
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where we're trying to connect with the fact that have
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you tried other solutions and begin that argument of why
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ours will stand out?
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Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah. And in one of our programs we
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were reviewing old other copywriters, old sales letters and things,
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and there's it's a modern day business by a copywriter,
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one of the best, I'm sure you know, Gary Bensavenga,
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and is an olive oil business, threat to consumer olive oil.
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And the argument there is really a light bulb two
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focused argument where what they are arguing for Gary and
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his company is for fresh pressed virgin olive oil, and
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what they're arguing at against is store bought olive oil.
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And the marketing material is brilliant if you go through
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it's the Fresh Pressed Olive Oil Club and you see,
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he has a piece of the marketing material. Eight reasons
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why fresh pressed olive oil is superior to store bought
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and it's things like it's rushed directly from the vineyard,
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we get wheels up, clearance from customs and things like this.
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So that's a good example. Then he's to sell his
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specific brand a fresh pressed olive oil. So he's making
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the argument at a bit of a higher level here,
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But that's a good way of looking at light bulb
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two versus light bulb three.
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Yeah, So first he's making the case for fresh pressed
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and then he's going to make the case for his
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particular brand and light bulb three, and so in doing so,
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he's making a clear distinction. He's making some claims, but
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he's got back up those claims, right, So, what will
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be some example of ways that we make a claim
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which could be you know, pretty audacious, clear but.
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Real claim that really distinguishes something, And then.
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How would we back that up? What would be some ways?
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Is it testimonials, is it facts? Does it research?
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Is it? Yeah? All the above, all the above, And
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these claims are often more nuanced than people think. It's
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not necessarily the claim that my product is the best,
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and it's better than all the others. It's claims to
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make along the way of making your argument, So you
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name the handful of them. So data, yes, testimonials, social proof, authority.
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The framework I like to use for this goes all
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the way back a couple thousand years to Aristotle and
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eat those pathos logos, So the authority of the person,
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the character of the person making the claim, the logic
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behind it, the more rational brain, and then the emotional
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appeal as well. And if you weave all those in
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those forms of proof, in this model of classical persuasion,
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then you are much more likely to get buy in
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when it comes time to present your offer, because the person,
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as you mentioned earlier, has those beliefs required to buy.
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It's also all to say for the person watching too.
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It's a more it's a classier approach that really respects
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the intelligence of your reader. By making an argument, you're
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assuming that they can understand an argument and critically think
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can make it formed decision for themselves, which is not
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the way that everyone if you haven't noticed, that's not
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the way everyone does marketing these days, which is very
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much not treating your reader like they're smart and using
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a lot of tools of manipulation, which I'm very much against.
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It sounds like you're really talking about getting in a
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very authentic conversation with your prospect, your perspective, customer, or client,
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a rational conversation that is going to include the emotional aspect.
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But you're really it's almost kind of makes me think
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of it. You know, marketing and sales are highly related,
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but if you think of sales and more in person
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value bialut sales or something, and its needs based selling,
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it's values based selling, and it's consultative based selling. So
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you're really getting a relationship with your customer and trying
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to understand what they're needing, and you're first of all
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just helping them move from no answer to having a
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greater clarity about what they're needing, whether they choose your
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product or somebody else. So you're really acting as a
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well intentioned consultant, and then you're going to gradually further
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take them along. So it sounds like this is the
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way to do this through marketing messaging, same way that
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we might do it in person, with a consultative approach
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or needs based approach to selling.
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Bingo, Yeah, you nailed it.
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No, great.
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So then we get on the light bulb three where
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we want our brand to stand out, and we're going
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to make the argument of why, among for example, among
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the various brands of fresh pressed olive oil available, why
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choose our brand? Yes, exactly, yes, So so light bul
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three represents your approach or your unique approach. And it's
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so interesting because you see light bulb three all the
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light bulbs, but especially light bulb three, across all these
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different product categories. So this might be the technology and
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a piece of software. It might be the technology and
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a piece of clothing you think about like under armour
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and moisture wick technology in the consulting space, this might
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be the steps in your methodology. If you go to
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the business book section of the bookstore, you see this
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on all the book covers frameworks like atomic habits. That's
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a light bulb three, my own to get metaphor second,
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the five light bulbs is a light bulb three. It's
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my unique approach to creating, marketing, messaging. And so yes,
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if you do a good job of selling your light
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bulb three, you'll more easily sell your lep bo four,
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which is your product.
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And so all the way along we're going to follow
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this process of making a claim of some kind like here,
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I have this framework and it's you know, really great,
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it simplifies things, and then backing that up with some kind.
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Of some kind of proof. Is that the process as
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we go through. Absolutely each light bulb is a high
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level claim that you're making. Mm hm.
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And again some of the ways that we establish that
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proof again are going to be testimonials from customers or clients, research,
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maybe media, you know that kind of social credibility and
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all these kind of different things.
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Demonstration is a great one too. If you think about
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ac and on TV, all those products, they heavily utilized demonstration,
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but demonstration is certainly not limited to those types of products.
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So yeah, this is where marketing can get creative. You're
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getting your point across via all different means and methods.
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So we've worked on distinguishing our product and made some
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claims about why it could be their best choice, and
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we backed that up. Now what is light bulb four
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all about?
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Right? So light BeO four. This is the action step.
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So this represents your product, yes, but we actually call
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it your offer, which includes your product. But it's more
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than that. It's not limited to your product. Many transactions
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take place in the global economy every year, and the
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sale is made because of other components of the offer.
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For example, a discount is given, a bonus is given,
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the way the product is delivered, special pricing terms. So
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this is where if the prospect so far you've acknowledged
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their problem, and you've talked about the other solutions and
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why those have been insufficient so far, you sold them
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on your solution. Now this is what Peter Drucker, I
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believe meant when he said that the goal of marketing
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is to make selling unnecessary. I woulday at least a
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heck of a lot easier if you've done your job
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until this point. Now when you present your offer, your
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light BEUL four, it's like a no brainer, obviouslity not
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to take this versus going to sell on coal immediately
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leading with your level four like a lot of people do,
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and you can get sales that way. But it's a
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lot more arm twisting involved.
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What if transformation isn't just about thinking differently but feeling differently.
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00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.720
So I've a followed, but I may circle back to
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But I want to hear what light bulb five is first.
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So I'm showing I'm asking a question about the right
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light bulb.
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Sure, So LEPO five is the other side of the bridge.
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So we have LEPO one as the bad side, LEPO
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five being the good side where the birger chirping sun
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is shining, and you want to give voice to that
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to LEPO five as well. It answers the question that
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the prospect has, which is what's in this for me?
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So you're really speaking to the transformation and the possibility.
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This isn't post sale, this is still part of the
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sales or marketing process.
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Correct, yes, yeah, So the two places where we use
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the five light bulbs are upstream downstream. So we use
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it first to create a core message where we fill
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out all these light bulbs. Then we deploy a downstream
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and when it's to play downstream the way it shows up,
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whether it's in an email or a Facebook aud or whatever.
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You can use all different combinations and patterns of the
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light bulbs, but it helps to think about the two
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as distinct upstream downstream. Could you explain that a little
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bit more, what you mean by ob streaming downstream? Sure?
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So.
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The first thing, so, for example, in our programs, we
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have people come through and they'll create what we call
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a messaging map, and that's a document that has five columns,
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one for each light bulb, and we take them through
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and we ask them these questions, what's your light bulb one, two, three,
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four five. It's important to dial that in first and
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to think about that more like a brand manual, so
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everyone knows the brand manual is. You usually invest a
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lot of money upfront in a company to help you
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develop this thing, and you spend time going through different logos. Okay,
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that's the right logo, same thing we're doing. What's our
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light bulb one? What are the fonts? What's our light bulb? Five?
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You dial that in, You get that in place first,
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so you're happy with your brand manual or in our case,
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your five light bulbs messaging map. Then you deplay a downstream.
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So you wouldn't start out creating a Facebook page and
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figuring out your logo at the same time. Nor do
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we start by figuring out our argument when we're creating
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a persuasive email. So we figure out our argument up front,
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and then we deploy it across all these different channels
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like email, Facebook, LinkedIn, wherever.
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Right, So downstream is the application and the implementation and
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it wouldn't necessarily follow that it could be applied in
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different order, in different ways, different sequences.
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Different mediums. We have people using the file light bulbs
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and texts, audio and video.
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So when you get into the offer light Bulb four,
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maybe even a little bit light Bulb vive and a
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lot of marketing we hear about the necessity of communicating
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both scarcity and urgency in order to get someone to
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make a buying decision.
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Now, those if.
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They could be manipulative, if they're real, then they're not
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necessarily manipulative. And if we are, you know, if we're
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selling a product we really believe in, it's tough to
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get people's decision and it's tough to get people over
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the line of making a buying decision. If we really
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have this focus, I want my product to be purchased
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by people that are going to benefit from it. I'm
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not trying to sell something to someone they don't need
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or is not going to work for them.
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So we have that.
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Mindset right and really value. It's a strong value, and
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we still got to get people to make that buying decision,
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which is not easy. And I mean, the better we
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do with this argument, as you were saying, maybe it
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comes to no brainer if we've done a really good
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job with an argument, But is there still a place
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in your model for creating a sense of urgency or
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scarcity or special offers or early bird discounts or all
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the other tools that we use to get the person
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to buy now rather than thinking about it, and then
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maybe they get distracted and they go to somebody else's
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offer and they don't come back.
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I have nothing against those things. Yeah, it'll put them
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in the category of tactics, and they can certainly amplify
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what you're doing. A mistake I see is relying on those.
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It's like that's the reason someone's going to buy or not.
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But if you really dial in your five light bulbs,
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then you will be successful without using those. However, that
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that's not a bad time to then start building in
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some of that earth urgency and you'll only amplify your results.
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Let's see.
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So that's kind of a thing we start between strategy
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and tactics. So in some ways, the five light bulbs
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is an overall messaging strategy, and then you might employ
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various tactics along the way. So I wonder if you
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could do a little bit more maybe we're here at
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light bulb two. I mean, we dealt with light bulb one.
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Marketing's overwhelming, right, and you know, here I am a solopreneur,
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or maybe I have a team, but I can't like
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go out and hire you know, a six figure marketing director,
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you know, or hire on a marketing agency.
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And yet I got to do marketing, and so I
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got to learn enough about.
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It myself to do it. And it is overwhelming. But
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then maybe we're at light bulb two here, how you
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explain something about why a lot of these approaches aren't
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going to be right for the small business owner, the entrepreneur,
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but a more simplified approach would work. So can you
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further make that distinction about this simplified approach that could
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allow people who are not necessarily marketing professionals to succeed
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in marketing.
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Yes, yes, And because that's so important, because you're wearing
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so many hats. And that's what I saw with my
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clients I was working with this. They were spending so
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much time on marketing, but on the wrong thing. So
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way I look at simplicity is that it's the needle mover.
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It's the biggest bang for your buck. It's less, it's
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not more. It's cutting things away. And what I found
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through getting into marketing and growing that beer brewing website
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that you mentioned was that messaging was the needle mover.
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It was the eighty twenty, and not in far, not
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enough attention was being given to it. So that's where
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the five light bulbs came about. And so none of
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these other these tactics and these marketing channels. Everyone's telling
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you you got to be on TikTok or Instagram or
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whatever it is, and these tactics like the countdown timers
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and the viral share buttons and all that. My clients
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I seem spending so much time on these things. I
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might screaming from the mountaintops when I would get talk
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about WUD tell them directly, like, hey, this is not
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a needle mover, because you don't even have your argument
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in place. And we see that when we take people
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through our programs and with the five light bulbs and
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they're clarifying, we're asking these questions like what are your
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light bulbs? And they can't and it doesn't add up.
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It's all confusing, this contradictions in there and everything. So
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it's like, okay, hold the phone. Why are we spending
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time posting on LinkedIn where we're not even clear in
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our marketing message, let alone the people strolling like crazy
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down their feet on LinkedIn. What are the chances that
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they're going to a get our message and be signed
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up with us? So, to me, simplicity is doing the
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minimum force for the maximum impact, and for me, that
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starts with figuring out what this argument is that you're making.
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Well, I think it made a great point there that
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is sort of untrained marketers. You know, we have them in,
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deeply trained, deeply experienced, but we're entrepreneurs. We're likely to
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get attracted to all the shiny balls and the tactics, right,
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we're level of folks. Oh I heard this work, So
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I heard that works, and maybe that works, and we
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really can get focused on tactics and think if we
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can just find that magic tactic, that's what's going to work.
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And we don't take the time to get into really
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the heart of marketing, which is messaging and copy. And
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I've heard this again and again from master marketers. It's
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all about the messaging, it's all about the copy. And
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so it sounds like you're inviting us to focus on
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the messaging and then giving us simple framework to craft.
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You know, even if we're not a master copywriter or
472
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a great novelist kind of writer, if we follow this
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simple framework, we can probably write some decent copy.
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Oh yeah, the good copy will emerge.
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Yeah.
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And that's the way that I recommend people get into
477
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copyright now is not like how I got into it
478
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was starting with copywriting. I would get into it thinking
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about messaging and thinking about what is this argument that
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you're making. What are the primary claims that you're making
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in your business. That's again upstream of the copywriting. The
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copywriting appears downstream.
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Just a funny example came to me, like when we're
484
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.799
trying to convince our spouse of something, or our kids,
485
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:45.559
or when our kids are trying to convince us of something, right,
486
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.680
all the stages to the argument that are made right,
487
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.599
we're really talking about kind of that kind of approach
488
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.599
of making that argument and making an argument that ultimately
489
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:55.880
is going to be compelling to people.
490
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.759
Absolutely absolutely. I wonder if you could talk about this.
491
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:01.799
You know, in the world is small business.
492
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.720
I mean, we're all very familiar with big business marketing.
493
00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.200
It's on television, it's in the social media, it's everywhere.
494
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:09.359
We're inundated with it.
495
00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:13.720
And some of it is incredibly sophisticated, right, And obviously
496
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:15.640
they have big teams and a lot of resources, and
497
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:18.279
they create some very sophisticated approaches to marketing.
498
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.200
But the world of being a small business person is
499
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.160
really a different world.
500
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.960
It's a whole different and trying to mimic big business
501
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.960
probably isn't going to work very well. It's like understanding
502
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.599
who we are as a small business person, you know,
503
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.200
And that's where you know, anything I've read somewhere with
504
00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.000
a well mid cap businesses, they're all the way up
505
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.880
to less than a billion, but ten million up. But
506
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.920
if we're under eight figures, we're a small business person, right,
507
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.480
and so anywhere from six figures eight figures, that's this territory.
508
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.480
And it's really a different world than We need different approaches,
509
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:51.160
and I'm just wondering if you can kind of help
510
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.400
further delineate that, because I believe most of our audience
511
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.799
listeningers right now in the summit are going to be
512
00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:00.839
bootstrapping entrepreneurs who are trying to eat, they're aspiring to
513
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.839
start a business, or they're getting from that six figure
514
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.119
to seven bigger level and beyond and trying to understand
515
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.559
you know, how do you approach this not as some
516
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:13.839
kind of corporate marketing expert, but as a small business person. Yeah.
517
00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.079
No, it's a great observation. Yeah, I observed the same
518
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:19.480
thing that I think a lot of business owners accidentally
519
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.039
follow the wrong playbook, and they follow that big business,
520
00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:24.920
that big brand playbook. There might be multiple reasons why
521
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.440
for that. I think one is that that tends to
522
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:28.839
be what we see. We see that we don't you're
523
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.079
not behind the scenes in the mom and pop stores
524
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.200
so much, but you do see the super Bowl commercial
525
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.359
and you see that and you say, Okay, that's business,
526
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.279
and then you go into business for yourself and you
527
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.000
ask yourself, well, what do I know about business? Oh? Yeah,
528
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.279
the super Bowl commercials Coke, we need T shirts and
529
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:44.599
you see that a lot. It's kind of like the
530
00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.839
symbol of an entrepreneur starting a business and it's probably
531
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:49.200
not going to be that successful. Is the first thing
532
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:51.160
they do is create T shirts for the brand, right,
533
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:53.839
And so I think there's an underappreciation for how much
534
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.839
selling small business owners need to do, because that really
535
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.200
is the lightblood of the business, and I think you
536
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:01.440
say selling and all sorts of emotions pop up, different
537
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.160
ones for different people. In a version to it, maybe
538
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:06.480
some of that resentment, oh, the products should sell itself
539
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:08.720
kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier.
540
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.240
But I agree, it's a whole different playbook. When you're
541
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.960
at that level where your publicly traded company and you
542
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.559
have these shareholders, you don't make every decision. I think
543
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:18.200
this is the key. You don't make every decision based
544
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:20.920
on profit. They make a lot of decisions based on reputation,
545
00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.640
right these big companies, these big brands, see that all
546
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.640
the time. Those sacrifice money for their reputation. But when
547
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.920
you're a small business owner, the brand is in the background. People,
548
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.119
you know, when you're small, they want to know, will
549
00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:35.359
this thing help me? That's a sales conversation. So I
550
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.559
wouldn't worry about branding in the early days.
551
00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:41.200
So you brought up the issue of resources, and so,
552
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.759
you know, as entrepreneurs were and we're bootshrapping, entrepreneurs were
553
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.599
very focused on budget. And you know, even if someone
554
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:50.720
as you good ports it and get some bunding for
555
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.400
their company, they still got to optimize how they're going
556
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.759
to use that to succeed. But for most of this
557
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:59.240
is bootstrapping entrepreneurs. We're very focused on budget, and so
558
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:02.720
if we're going to spend some marketing dollars right other
559
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.480
than our own efforts, and I think we agree that
560
00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:09.400
at least in early stages as founders, CEOs entrepreneurs, we
561
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.799
need to embrace marketing at sub level. I mean, eventually
562
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:14.880
maybe we can develop under us a team that can
563
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:17.720
embrace the approach we've developed at works, but initially we're
564
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.079
gonna have to learn something about it. But apart from
565
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:22.920
our own time and energy, our own sweat equity, where
566
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.839
else does it make sense to spend your scarce marketing
567
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.400
dollars in the as you're growing a business and trying
568
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:30.440
to scale a business.
569
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:32.720
Yeah, good question. I mean, you want to get something working,
570
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:34.440
you want to get a flywheel going, so and I
571
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:35.920
think the best way to do that is to have
572
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:37.720
you got to understand the front end of the business
573
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:39.440
versus the back end of the business. You've got to
574
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:42.559
have a way to acquire new customers and then ideally
575
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:44.359
do that in a way where it's even just break
576
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:46.640
even and you're just buying customers because all the profit
577
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.000
is made on the back end. That's a big mistake
578
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.519
that I see made is that far two many hours
579
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.599
per week are spent acquiring new customers as opposed to
580
00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.519
using those same hours for developing existing customers into additional customers,
581
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:04.960
repeat buyers. I believe that a big percentage of your revenue.
582
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:06.559
I think we should always trying to be increase a
583
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.519
percentage of revenue that comes from existing customers. I think
584
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:11.960
it's just a good place to keep our focus.
585
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.559
Well, you mentioned that flywall concept, and I think that
586
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.160
is a really important one that you're building in your company,
587
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.599
sustainable revenue that you can then build on. So whether
588
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.440
that's a membership program with subscription rules, or whether it's
589
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.920
just you're really good at getting repeat customers, but somehow
590
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.920
that you're working with that customer base that you're developing
591
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:34.519
and you're optimizing that rather than just a constant search
592
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:36.279
for new customers, which means you're going to have to
593
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.400
be spending a lot more money on marketing and advertising.
594
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:41.960
If if you're older business is completely dependent on new
595
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.160
customers all the time, that's going to be a more
596
00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:46.279
expensive approach to sales and marketing.
597
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:48.319
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I was thinking about this for my
598
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:50.440
own business just recently. You know, this idea of I
599
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.839
think about like punching through the board, where you want
600
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.599
to think about how you acquire a customer, but then
601
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.920
what happens to that person? It's a person, right, and
602
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:00.119
they go through your product, and then what's next, what's
603
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.440
next in their life? What's next in their business? Can
604
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:04.680
you serve them at that level? What comes after that?
605
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.440
What's step three? I think like this idea of optimizing
606
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.680
for the second sale. I've been rolling that around in
607
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.599
my head recently and I really liked that concept.
608
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:16.119
So what might be our thinking process in terms of
609
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:19.519
optimizing for that second sale? And maybe is the five
610
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:21.839
light bulbs approach still come in to play there? So
611
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.200
maybe walk us through that a little bit, the thinking process.
612
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.240
Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, so I think you
613
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:28.920
have to ask, then, what would you differently if you're
614
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:31.519
optimizing for the second sale versus the first sale? I
615
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:33.680
think you get some immediate answers, kind of get answers,
616
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.279
and more so things you wouldn't do. You wouldn't do
617
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.839
the quick wins, you wouldn't false promises, fake urgency, anything
618
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:43.200
like that for the quick buck where you know, Okay,
619
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:44.839
I'll make some money on this because I pushed it
620
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.000
hard enough where I deceived them enough. But there's no
621
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.920
way they're going to buy for me again. So automatically,
622
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:51.880
a lot of those shady tactics go out the window.
623
00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:53.960
And I think you're just trimming the brown leaves from
624
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.400
the tree when you do that. I think only good
625
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:56.640
things happen when you do it that way.
626
00:28:57.559 --> 00:28:59.400
Well, that kind of can come back to how we
627
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.720
structure our products or services, you know, and many intertries
628
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:04.799
we talk about the value ladders. So you have an
629
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:07.599
initial price product, you know, one level, and then you
630
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:09.720
have a higher price to a higher price and obviously
631
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.759
these are higher value products. But you've kind of designed
632
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.559
a journey, a customer journey into your products or services
633
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:17.119
to begin with.
634
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:20.440
Absolutely. Yeah, you're building it very intentionally, Yeah, thinking about
635
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.279
what There's always going to be a next step. So
636
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:24.160
what is that next step? And that can be you
637
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:26.319
who serves them on that level. But once you have
638
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:27.920
that trust, you know, I think outside the box too.
639
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:30.039
It might be a partner that you bring in, maybe
640
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.160
a tool that they need. That doesn't mean you're you
641
00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:33.559
have no involvement in that step.
642
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.319
Yeah, well, I think that's interesting, and I think a
643
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:40.720
way to really serve our customers because you know, they
644
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.720
took a leap of faith with us and they bought
645
00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:46.240
our product or service and hopefully they've had a very
646
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:49.480
good experience, so they've developed a certain trust level. So
647
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:51.359
rather than having to go out and go through that
648
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.519
process again and again and the anxiety of purchasing from
649
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:57.519
someone you don't trust, now we can if we can
650
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.319
help keep meeting needs of theirs, that makes sense kind
651
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:03.559
of within a certain framework of the industry we're in,
652
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.039
or the type of products and services we're in, we're
653
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:09.440
actually you know, really being supported to them to help
654
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:12.319
meet more of their needs and keep them from having
655
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:15.799
to go through that anxiety producing leap of faith with.
656
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:18.799
The new companies. Yeah, it's an interesting question to ask.
657
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:20.440
But what if we spend more of our time, What
658
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:22.440
if we spend most of our time that we have
659
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.039
budgeted for marketing on people who have purchased once already.
660
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.039
Yeah, it really is very interesting. What about you know,
661
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:34.960
today we're in this digital world, the information economy and
662
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:38.799
the attention economy, which ties into marketing very much. Everybody's
663
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.839
trying to get our attention and we're wanting to get
664
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.160
eyes on our product or service. But the whole digital
665
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.759
landscape really has changed things a lot of social media
666
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.799
For most of us as small business owners, we're probably
667
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.160
not going to be advertising on TV much or unless
668
00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:56.720
it's a very localized product and we're going to use
669
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:59.720
local radio TV. But for the most part, a lot
670
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:02.240
of it's going to be happening digitally. So how has
671
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:05.680
that changed things from even your journey over the time
672
00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:08.160
you've been in business, how have you seen things changed
673
00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:11.559
and has that changed your approach to marketing your own services.
674
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:14.079
Yeah, it's even changed over the past few years too,
675
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:16.519
where I went from thinking you need to be on
676
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:19.559
every platform and I still think about it like that
677
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:21.680
in a way. But the more work we've been doing
678
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:24.119
with the five light bulbs and creating this core message,
679
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.799
it's more about spending more time upstream and thinking about
680
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.279
what the core message is and refining that and then
681
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:31.960
testing it across these different platforms, and then once you
682
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:35.839
find that winning message, Well, people, you're your consumers, you
683
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:37.960
probably will have one that they favor, right, so maybe
684
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.240
you find the most of your customer's favorite Facebook, for example,
685
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:43.000
I'm sure you have customers because these platforms are so big,
686
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:47.039
aren't they. I mean, X is huge now, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube,
687
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.119
all the others. You have customers there. So I believe
688
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:53.480
that once you find that core message, then what you
689
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:55.839
should do is distribute it to the people who need
690
00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:00.759
it on their preferred platform and their preferred medium.
691
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:03.079
And coming back to the messaging. So again, I think
692
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:05.359
this comes back to really getting to know who are
693
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:09.279
ideal intended customers and really getting into them and have
694
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:12.240
a message that that you know they're going to experience
695
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.559
your speaking my language, and especially when we're trying to
696
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.799
market through social media, because well, we really have to
697
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:21.200
break through the noise there. I mean, I don't know
698
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.240
how anybody would market me on Facebook. A little bit
699
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:27.240
of time I spend there, you know, I don't spend
700
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.079
time scrolling. I mean it would take quite a it would,
701
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.519
you know. It would almost have to pop out with
702
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.200
you know, something like oh that guys inside my brain
703
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.240
or something. It would have to be incredibly compelling. Fortunately,
704
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:41.599
I'm probably a tough case and other people are more
705
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:44.599
accessible on social media, but it does I think it
706
00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.960
points to the fact that we really investing in honing
707
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.519
in on the message.
708
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:51.039
And you're right, it's tough to stand out. It's so
709
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.599
noisy out there. And at the same time, there's a
710
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.559
lot of low quality content out there too, so the
711
00:32:56.599 --> 00:32:59.200
bar is not that high. And we see that too, Like,
712
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:02.480
once you start applying these principles, it's what you said.
713
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:04.680
Unless that person felt like they were in my head
714
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:06.480
or fly on the wall or something. You know, you're
715
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:08.799
really talking the light bulb one there, A little light
716
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:10.400
bulb one can go a long ways.
717
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.160
Yeah, you know, and I think that's important for ourselves
718
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:16.799
as entrepreneurs, so we don't kind of start to feel
719
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:19.519
overwhelmed and hopeless that yes, there's a lot of noise
720
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:21.599
out there, it's difficult to stand out, but the.
721
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.799
Bar is not that high. A lot of it is
722
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:24.759
kind of noise.
723
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:29.920
But we actually have more access and less expensive access
724
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.880
to the larger marketplace than we've ever had. I mean,
725
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:36.119
can imagine different between trying to advertise on social media
726
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:40.680
versus advertising nationally internationally on television or something or even
727
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:41.480
in print media.
728
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:44.720
Right, that's really less expensive. You're right, you have access
729
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:46.799
to so many people and you don't need that many
730
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.599
people probably for your business to be very profitable. And
731
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.079
also Yeah, the bar is low. The bar is pretty low,
732
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.039
and it doesn't need don't get discouraged because it doesn't
733
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.599
need to be difficult. And that's the beauty of simplicity.
734
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.720
Once you focus on the right things, you can do
735
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.000
less with more. That's the whole idea. So it's the
736
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:06.279
difficulties in seeing what needs to be done. But once
737
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:07.759
you find one needs to be done, and I'm trying
738
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:09.199
to stress that what needs to be done is you
739
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.320
dial in that message, you'll find that it's actually easier,
740
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.920
less work, less hours, less frustration than all the time
741
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:18.760
you were spending downstream on the marketing tactics and the
742
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.679
channels and all that, and you get better results. So
743
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:24.159
true simplicity is really a case of you can have
744
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:25.760
your cake and eat it too.
745
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:29.480
So it sounds like this framework would apply across almost
746
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.360
any industry. But I wonder where you know, what your
747
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.880
experience has been with your book and your clients and
748
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.760
having an agency and so forth, some of the examples
749
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:41.320
of where you've seen people be successful with this framework
750
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:42.000
in this model.
751
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.320
Yeah, great question. Yeah, well, and of course started with
752
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:46.360
the people that I traditionally work with, because that's why
753
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:50.840
I presented it to at first, so online course creators, coaches, consultants,
754
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.000
you know, more broadly, these smart people who know their
755
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:56.599
topic very well but aren't natural marketers. But beyond that,
756
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.960
it's been used in many different industries, from marketing professional
757
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.599
almost marketing agencies. Paid traffic agencies love the Five light Bulbs.
758
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.119
They use it as a testing framework to test their
759
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:09.920
paid ads, so testing a light bulb one versus light
760
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:14.519
bulb five. E commerce companies, mom and pop stores. We
761
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.800
had one client use it who's at a company that's
762
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:19.559
over one hundred years old in American company over one
763
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:22.719
hundred years old in a physical product business. So we
764
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.159
see it everywhere. I mean, I joke around that you
765
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:25.719
were kind of hinting on this earlier about it being
766
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:28.000
a communication framework. I could totally write the Five light
767
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.039
Bulbs for couples like that book. Who would write itself? Yeah,
768
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:34.039
well maybe you should do that. I don't know. I
769
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:35.360
would have to co author it with me.
770
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.719
And I wonder what your experience has been with this
771
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:41.480
of as a you know, a content expert of some
772
00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:44.119
kind of thought leader and an entrepreneur, and whether we're
773
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.800
putting a product or service whatever we're putting out there,
774
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:51.320
how community comes into play. How can we leverage community
775
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.039
and what might be the connection between the five blood
776
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.800
bulbs message and creating a community that will really sustain
777
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.119
our business. You know, we talked before the repaid business
778
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.960
and it's the flywheel approach and so forth. I wonder
779
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.719
about the role of creating community around our product and services.
780
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:10.639
Yeah, so one, it'll come naturally if you take this
781
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:12.559
s approach of making your argument, because you know people
782
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:16.000
who rally around that argument that you think about someone
783
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:19.719
like Oh whim Hoff, the iceman if you've seen this guy.
784
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.559
Heikes Mount Everest and his bathing suit, but big proponent.
785
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:26.840
His argument is for cold therapy as a key to
786
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.880
success when it comes to your health. He's got a
787
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.559
couple other things too, but cold therapy is a big one, right.
788
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:33.760
So that's his argument, is that cult therapy is the
789
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:36.280
key that you've been looking for to lower your anxiety,
790
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.320
increasing your well being, et cetera. That's his argument. He's
791
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:43.199
had a huge community rally around argument. So that's one
792
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.079
way to do it. And then that's kind of that
793
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.559
that happens naturally. And then on top of that additional
794
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:50.000
layer on top of that, which also stems from the
795
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.880
same core messages. I really like this idea world building
796
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.639
and creating a world for your people where you're speaking
797
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:59.280
a common language, there's common terms that everyone knows, there's
798
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:02.599
stories about the business and the founder that everyone knows.
799
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.440
Yeah, that's great, and you know, people do they become
800
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:07.320
you know, there's a lot of here. Whim Offs also
801
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:09.079
teaches breath work, and there's a lot of models of
802
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.039
breath work out there. There's probably some other cold exposure stuff,
803
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:14.480
but there's a lot of people that they're whim off people.
804
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.199
That's their identity, right, and so he's built that community
805
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.960
of people that distinguish themselves and oh yeah that other
806
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.360
stuff that's not quite whimholf. I do this right, So
807
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:25.440
how do we create that with our own branded product?
808
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:28.039
Yeah exactly, Yeah, Yeah, great observation.
809
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.079
What are maybe some common myths that you see people
810
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:34.599
get caught up in, or struggle with, or get distracted
811
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:38.920
by with marketing that your simplified approach could debunk or
812
00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:39.840
help people avoid.
813
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:43.599
A huge one is this idea of outsourcing your marketing.
814
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.840
So it's belief that I can outsource my marketing, you
815
00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:50.480
can outsource marketing activities, so you can outsource. You can
816
00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:52.960
hire someone to post to your Facebook page, to run
817
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:55.159
ads for you, to build your website, and you probably should,
818
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:57.519
but you can never outsource marketing. I mean, it's part
819
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.000
of the DNA of the business. I believe it drives
820
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:01.760
lot of creation. So there you got a kind of
821
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:04.920
business without products. So that's the big one that I see,
822
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:07.440
And my advice is to put in the proper perspective.
823
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.840
Your main job with marketing is not now is now
824
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.079
not updating the Facebook page. Your main job with marketing
825
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:16.760
is now to create that metchage, to create that argument,
826
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:20.320
and then hire the people downstream to do the implementation
827
00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.920
for you as you can and as budget allows.
828
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:25.400
Well, you brought up a really interesting distinction there, because
829
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:28.239
I think as entrepreneurs we're often focused on our product
830
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:31.239
or our service, and it's just you know, it's our passion,
831
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:33.239
it's something we got, it's an idea we had, it's
832
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:35.559
our prepared whatever it is that we're offering, we're passionate
833
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:37.559
about that. And so I know, if I just do this,
834
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:39.400
people are going to people are going to like it,
835
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.559
people are going to buy it, and then later I'll
836
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:43.599
figure out how to market it. But from what I
837
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.000
just heard you say it sounds like it might make
838
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:49.760
more sense to begin with marketing, Like what's the problem
839
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.920
out there in the world that I'm passionate about helping
840
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:55.960
people solve? Maybe it was a problem I had, you
841
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.519
know that I found a way to solve myself, like
842
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:01.320
what am I? And then you know, de helping that
843
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.920
five light bulbs frightwork, and then deciding products and services
844
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:07.199
to fit into that framework. Like you know, I think
845
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:09.280
we start with the product and we think, oh now
846
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.559
I got to market it. It might make more sense
847
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.760
to start with really honing in that message and then
848
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.159
thinking about, Okay, what are the products and services that
849
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:20.079
would best fit into that message and best meet the
850
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:21.119
needs of the customer.
851
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:23.360
Yeah, you hit on something funny that we find too.
852
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:25.159
When people go through the Five light Bulbs is they
853
00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:27.119
think they come in from marketing, and really they leave
854
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.559
realizing that they went through for product development and they
855
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:32.840
e merge with almost entirely different product. It's going to
856
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.400
be improved no matter what. So yeah, great observation. You know,
857
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:37.440
you and I have a mutual friend, Ryan Dice, who
858
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:40.119
has the story about the back of the napkin. Right,
859
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:42.360
I we built this multi million dollar business and it
860
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:44.360
was just a you drew it on a cocktail napkin,
861
00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:46.719
and I think you're absolutely right. I encourage everyone watching
862
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.840
this interview too. You know, when you have a cocktail
863
00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:51.000
napkin in front of you, you have an idea, run that
864
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:53.239
idea through the five light bulbs because it absolutely can
865
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:54.360
help you with product development.
866
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:56.360
Absolutely, And I definitely want to get Ryan. I don't
867
00:39:56.360 --> 00:39:58.679
know if Brian coined that term the flywheel approach, but
868
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.320
he definitely talks about the sub bigger flywall in his work,
869
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:03.320
so I want to give him credit where credits due
870
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:07.159
on that creating it at self perpetuating revenue energy within
871
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.639
a company and a business. Right. I think that that
872
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.519
is a really important myth, this idea that I can
873
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:15.199
solve my problems to outsourcing, and yet there is a
874
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.320
place for outsourcing, as you mentioned, any other common myths
875
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.679
that you can think of that that get people kind
876
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:23.000
of on the wrong track with marketing.
877
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:25.159
Well, kind of beating the same drum here, but it's
878
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:27.679
important and important one to beat. But it's just really
879
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.039
important not to get caught up in these channels and
880
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:33.039
tactics and you're going to be very tempted to because
881
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:36.519
there's always someone you know, hawking a shiny object. But
882
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:38.719
I would encourage you to really set that aside and
883
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:41.679
focus on what's really important, which is figuring out what
884
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.760
the value is that you're providing and why you're providing it,
885
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.880
and making sure that your solution is the logical solution
886
00:40:48.440 --> 00:40:50.800
for them. That's what I encourage you viewer to focus on.
887
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:54.559
And I think you're going to provide us with an
888
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:58.320
infographic of somehow that kind of layout the five light Bulbs.
889
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:01.599
Actually it's a even better. It's a you can find
890
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:02.599
the five light pols want. So if you go to
891
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:04.599
five Lightpoles dot com, you'll see that we have some
892
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:06.719
great visuals. I'm very visual thinker, so I had a
893
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:09.360
top illustrator created a whole world for it, and those images.
894
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.719
I think we'll really help you guys too. But we're
895
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:14.159
gonna provide an infographic for you. I keep using this
896
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:18.159
metaphor of upstream downstream to see it. The same illustrator
897
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.159
created an infographic of that, and man print that thing
898
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:23.000
and keep it right on your desk, because as you know,
899
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.760
it's easy to say, now, Billy, yeah, okay, I'm gonna listen.
900
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:28.039
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna chase those shiny objects.
901
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.599
Let's talk a month from now. Right when you've forgotten,
902
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:32.880
you're starting to forget this and you see that shiny object,
903
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:34.079
I want you to look down at this graphic and
904
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.320
say Nope, got to focus back on what's important.
905
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:39.440
Absolutely, And so this is a framework. I mean, as
906
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:41.280
you've played it out, Chang's pretty simple. And I know
907
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:43.920
you have online resources available and you're gonna provid U
908
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.480
with a symbiographic. So this is something that really any
909
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:50.559
entrepreneur should be able to sit down and really kind
910
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:54.119
of at least begin the process of clarifying the argument
911
00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:57.320
across those five light bulbs and go using that process,
912
00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:59.840
claim and claim and improved, claim, improve and walk your
913
00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:02.920
way through the fivee This is something despite anybody, any
914
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:03.760
entrepreneurs should be.
915
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:06.199
Able to do, right. Yeah, absolutely, And I have to
916
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:09.320
recommend my book here because it really is the philosophy
917
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.360
behind the five light bulbs. The book ends where the
918
00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:13.679
five levels begins. Even if you don't touch the five
919
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.360
light bulbs. The book goes into this idea of how
920
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:18.400
to make an argument, how to make these claims and
921
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:20.360
back them up with proof, and that alone will get
922
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.880
you very far. So that book is Simple Marketing for
923
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:25.000
Smart People, and we have a website for that Simple
924
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:26.920
Marketingbook dot com.
925
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.079
Right, and I definitely want to encourage people to check
926
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.639
that out. I've read the book twice already. My team
927
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:33.559
has read the book twice, and I'm going to be
928
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.199
reading it again because we're really making use of that
929
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:38.880
framework and in how we try to get our message
930
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:43.039
out to the world. So incredibly valuable. So simple Marketing
931
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:46.880
for Smart People, right, you got it? Okay, So anywhere
932
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.039
else that people can learn more about your work. I
933
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.360
mean you mentioned you have that the book's website is
934
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:56.880
Simple Marketingbook dot com. Simple Marketingbook dot com. And then
935
00:42:56.920 --> 00:42:58.920
you have a five light bulbs website.
936
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.079
Yes three, so simple Marketing Book dot com, five light
937
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:04.159
bulbs dot com if you want to see the framework.
938
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:06.480
And then my personal website where I have articles written
939
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.119
on a lot of these topics is Billy Bross dot
940
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:12.840
com Billy Brose. Okay, wonderful. Well, really encourage people to
941
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:13.519
check that out.
942
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:15.760
And if people wanted to work with you, that's a
943
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:18.199
possibility out so absolutely.
944
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:20.000
Yeah, please reach out. I would recommend reading the book first,
945
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.159
So just so you know our approach and that you're
946
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:23.960
on board with it, and then if you ever want
947
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:26.039
to reach out, Billy Bross dot com is the place.
948
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:29.400
Great, wonderful well Billy, thank you so much for all
949
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.280
the value we've added to heartmind and what we're trying
950
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:34.480
to do in the world, but all the value add
951
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:37.039
to the world of entrepreneurship. And thank you so much.
952
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.840
And I think there's just a tremendous amount of wisdom
953
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:40.719
here and the privilege to.
954
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:43.199
Be able to show us with our audience thanks to you. Yeah,
955
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.920
you're a great interviewer and I love what you're doing,
956
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:47.400
so just keep it up. I'm rooting for you. Okay, great,
957
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:48.440
Thank you be well.
958
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:52.480
Thanking Radical responsibility for our lives means taking action.
959
00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:54.599
And today you can start by helping us.
960
00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:58.280
Grow this community. If these insights into healing and transformation
961
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:02.320
have served you, please subscribe on YouTube and follow us
962
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.679
on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. While you're there, leave us
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a review. It takes thirty seconds, but it's the most
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powerful way to help our message reach someone else seeking
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deeper self awareness. Thank you for being part of the
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journey towards lasting change. Thank you for joining me on
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the Radical Responsibility Podcast. Remember, real change happens when we
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commit to our growth, face our challenges with compassion, and
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stay open to transformation. If you found this episode helpful,
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I encourage you to subscribe and help us spread the
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message of healing and personal empowerment. Stay grounded, stay present,
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and stay true to you.
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Take care