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Okay, today we're gonna talk about print.
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We're gonna talk about what to do.
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Should you start printing? Should you stop
printing?
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Or should you continue printing?
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And 10 years ago-ish, when we got serious
with leaky paywall,
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our first customer base were print
publishers.
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And we dealt we started doing a lot of
integrations.
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We heard a lot of stories, and then over
this decade.
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we have heard a lot of stories and I
thought it would be good to kind
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of put them all together, package them all
together in one podcast
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and share what we've seen publishers do
well and not do well and
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why print didn't work out and why print is
still working out with some publishers.
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So welcome, Tyler.
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Hello, hello. Sounds fun. Let's go.
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Let's
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go.
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we were talking offline a little bit
before,
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and you mentioned something about a print
publisher that didn't make it.
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shall we start there?
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Yeah. I I think I don't know the exact
statistics on this,
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but I think there's like one or two local
news s publications that close
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in the ne in the US every week.
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~
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Mm.
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or maybe maybe it's even higher than that.
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I should
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Yeah.
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have been prepared for that for that.
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But I I know it's a high number,
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for especially for the weekly publishers
out there.
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They they are struggling and
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There are a number of r reasons for why
that is.
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we can we can jump into that if you want.
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but
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Well, how about how about this current
publisher that they're they've announced
that
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they're shutting down, is that right?
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Okay.
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That's right. Yeah. So a a print
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a print publication and there are there
there's more than more than
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one at this point, that have ~
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Right.
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decided to close up shop.
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And yeah, a legacy print operation had a
great robust digital operation.
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~ had a had a growing
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Mm.
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digital subscription base, not not
ginormous,
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not enough to staff, you know,
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fifteen people or anything, but certainly
enough to continue running their their
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you know, digital only system.
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So
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Hmm, mm.
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Are we allowed to reveal s have they
announced this publicly?
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Can we reveal who this is?
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Not unclear. Okay.
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Yeah.
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That's fine.
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I can give you better numbers if I if I
don't tell you who it is.
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Yeah, and
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you also and I remember years ago we we
actually did an article on
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a publisher that it was a print publisher
that turned on digital subscriptions,
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a very, very small town of West Virginia
and then but ultimately
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the the print anchor kinda dropped them,
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right?
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Yeah, so the one you're talking about in
in West Virginia,
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like they stopped printing altogether and
are still digital only to this day.
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Now they're a very small mom and pop type
operation in a very small
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Mm. Yeah.
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town and they don't have a lot of overhead
at this point.
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I think they work remote. So they can make
that work and it's growing.
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It's been slow but it's growing.
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~ and and and it's and it's possible,
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good. Okay. Okay.
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right? So
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But this recent one, they just couldn't do
it.
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It was what was it? What what
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Yeah.
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do you think it was that did him in?
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I think there are special circumstances
with this publisher in terms
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of debt that was ~
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Mm.
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acquired.
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Yeah.
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that is difficult to repay if it all comes
due at the same time.
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Right. Right. Yeah, that's a problem.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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So
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Could they have survived? I don't I don't
know.
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but I think if you look at print and print
publishers more broadly,
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they they struggle because of the cost of
their print.
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It's a ginormous anchor on them.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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~
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the reason that most of them print to
begin with is because of
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the public notice side of their business.
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Mm. Mm.
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So if
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you're unfamiliar with the that,
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public notices are
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basically can be anything from probate
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to you know businesses needing to publish
court orders,
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whatever, that are mandated by every
state,
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most states,
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Right.
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and the the news publisher makes money
from that.
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They have a a
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Right.
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state mandate, you know, we get to charge
a hundred and whatever dollars
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for this public notice. ~ but it usually
has to be print.
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But it has to be print. Mostly mostly.
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Yeah.
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Most
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states, like ninety percent, ninety five
percent of the states are all
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Still like you've gotta have a print
publication and you have to have printed
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for the last twelve months and there are
all these hoops you have
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to jump jump through in order to become
the qualified
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Mm.
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newspaper in your specific county or
district.
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So and like trying to sort through all of
that is like a complete nightmare.
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It's r it's really messy. So yeah,
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Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.
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yeah.
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Yeah, so government government funds.
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that can probably dry up at any time too.
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Yeah.
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And that's like that's one fear,
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right, for a lot of super hyper local
newspapers is like if their advertising
isn't
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strong and they certainly don't have any
paid subscribers,
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the only thing that's really holding them
up would be public notice at that point.
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~ there's very very
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Mm. Yeah, that's tough.
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little like other other factors out there
as far as income goes,
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so
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Yeah. Gotcha. No, the this particular
publisher they were running digital
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subscriptions as well as print
subscriptions.
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That's right.
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Yep. And you think it would have been
different if they made the decision
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to stop printing like a couple of years
ago?
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Yeah.
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Probably. Yeah.
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Yeah, for sure. It's I know it's difficult
for for print publishers
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to even think like that because they do ha
have
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Mm.
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advertisers that are, you know,
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in their print product and they sell kind
of print advertising first
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and digital is kinda like this extra thing
versus,
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you know, selling digital first and
pretending
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Mm.
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that print doesn't exist, which is what we
tend to recommend,
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right? ~
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Right.
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we always tell publishers, if you have a
print product,
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pretend like you don't online and just
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Yeah.
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just sell the digital only and give them
the E edition access and then like forget
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trying to mail this thing ~ all over the
the country and sometimes
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Right. Right.
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internationally. So
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Right. Yeah. And and f you know,
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for local news, I can see that that being
a really tough decision.
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but it's not just local news, you know,
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like magazine, we deal with a lot of
magazine or niche publishers that that
print,
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continue to print, and I I talk to them
and I hear things like,
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you know,
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If I if we just didn't have the print
expenses and logistics and time suck
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and all that. And you could see that they
go into this dreamy state when they
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say that. I have heard this, you know,
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before, but then it's like, wait a second,
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but you know, the print we have a print
magazine that's you know,
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that's our product. And that's I think
that's where things get a little little
hazy
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for publishers, is like, is the is the
paper or is the magazine the product?
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Or is it just part of the product,
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right? Or is it just a delivery vehicle
for the product,
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Yeah, yeah.
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right?
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So for everyone listening and thinking
like,
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my god, is like news, local news or like
all this stuff like a waste of time?
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Is it all dying and like is there any hope
that there's revenue to be made?
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And I'll just say that we work with a lot
of digital first publications that have
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never had a print anchor. And they don't
think about this stuff.
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They just they write content, they send
out newsletters.
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They grow their digital subscribers and as
you know,
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when they when the subscriber comes on
board,
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there's like virtually no cost because
it's it's a digital operation,
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right? there's no there's no print product
that you have to mail to them.
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And they they grow, right? So it's it's
really difficult to sort
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of turn a legacy print operation and
reverse
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Mm.
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the workflow for them because they fight
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Right.
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almost every part of it and I get it,
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you're you're used to this this workflow
that you've been doing for
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the last however many decades and now
you're trying to think digital first
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and it's hard to believe
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Yep. Yeah.
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that we're still having that that
discussion,
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you know, in twenty twenty six.
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I mean,
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that that brings up a good question
though.
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It's like when like how do you decide,
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right? Like should I should I continue?
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Should I should I stop? You know,
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should I start? We've had publishers start
print publications and we're gonna talk
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about that. the con I think the content
type makes a difference.
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Is it, you know, is it is it a magazine?
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is it a how to kind of a publication?
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Is it news? and that's that
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That's different. How about an ad revenue
is another one.
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So we have a lot of magazine publishers,
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they have a lot of ad revenue.
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It makes sense for them to continue
running their magazine.
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Absolutely, positively. So if the ad
revenue is carrying you,
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it's not even a decision. You can stop
listening now.
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We have other things for you. But but
really that's and that's the thing that
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has been more challenging. but if your if
your print product suits
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the lifestyle of your reader and your ad
revenue supports it,
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then yeah, you you know, you keep going.
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and then reader attachment. It's like sort
of another thing that when
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I talk to publishers, I'd say generally
speaking,
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and there are exceptions, but the you
know,
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the older the older readers tend to really
they're really attached
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to their print publication. and there's
there's definitely trends
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in the younger readers that you know,
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it's they they love the print.
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Like they it's it's a lifestyle thing.
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They it's cool, it's it's hip.
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to read in print. So so these are the
things that sort of help you determine,
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you know, which way to go. And I'll kind
of jump in on this.
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And let me actually let me share my
screen.
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I'm gonna I'm gonna show you actually this
just a little bit of data real quick.
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we're gonna look at this here.
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This was ~ this is from Pew ~ Baekdal
republished this
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but this is from Pew Research.
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~
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originally, ~ thanks Thomas if you happen
to see this.
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this is advertising and circulation
revenue for US publishers.
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And you can see that in two thousand nine,
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~ things started going south. And two
thousand nine was our financial,
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you know, collapse of the US economy and
the global economy.
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and we went from a peak, I think 2006
where print and circulation,
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you know, advertising circulation revenue
in print were really at its high.
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And it's just been kind of falling.
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you know, ever since, ~ as digital has
just become more and more common.
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And so you might look at this and say,
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like, my God, I gotta, you know,
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I gotta stop here. But look at
circulation,
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you know, circulation ~ dollars are
actually kind of creeping up a little bit,
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which is interesting. ~ so ~ I just want
to get this out of the way.
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New York Times kind of a bellwether,
250
00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:24,243
a tech bellwether in the space.
251
00:11:24,243 --> 00:11:26,543
We talk about them ~ sometimes.
252
00:11:26,543 --> 00:11:28,454
They were they were
253
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:31,051
Really print focused originally as a
paper.
254
00:11:31,051 --> 00:11:34,173
They embraced digital back in twenty
eleven,
255
00:11:34,173 --> 00:11:35,744
I think they turned on their meter
paywall,
256
00:11:35,744 --> 00:11:40,786
which inspired us ~ to to ~ track what
they were doing.
257
00:11:40,786 --> 00:11:45,609
And today they ~ their print product,
258
00:11:45,609 --> 00:11:50,371
guess how many what percent of their
circulation is is print versus digital?
259
00:11:50,371 --> 00:11:51,371
Yeah, any guess?
260
00:11:52,704 --> 00:11:56,252
Boy, I would I would say the vast majority
is is digital at this point,
261
00:11:56,252 --> 00:11:59,589
but that's just because we sit in this
this fish tank together.
262
00:11:59,589 --> 00:12:01,593
~
263
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:02,280
Take a
264
00:12:01,602 --> 00:12:02,602
guess. Pick a number.
265
00:12:02,501 --> 00:12:05,830
~ I would say let's say thirty percent is
print.
266
00:12:06,439 --> 00:12:07,439
Four percent.
267
00:12:07,786 --> 00:12:08,786
my god.
268
00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:10,373
Yeah. Yeah, it's fallen that far.
269
00:12:10,373 --> 00:12:13,817
And that four percent is super loyal and
they're happy to pay the money
270
00:12:13,817 --> 00:12:15,468
and they pay a lot of money for it,
271
00:12:15,468 --> 00:12:17,770
which is part of the secret to keeping
print running.
272
00:12:17,770 --> 00:12:22,045
But yeah, this is this is it's it's pretty
pretty interesting.
273
00:12:22,087 --> 00:12:24,942
And and I would imagine if you go to the
New York Times and you wanna
274
00:12:24,942 --> 00:12:29,062
go subscribe that it's probably not like
it's probably difficult to find
275
00:12:29,062 --> 00:12:30,691
a print component
276
00:12:30,213 --> 00:12:31,311
No, no.
277
00:12:31,813 --> 00:12:33,265
as as part of that subscription.
278
00:12:33,265 --> 00:12:34,265
So
279
00:12:33,521 --> 00:12:36,113
Yeah, that's exactly right. They're really
the you yeah,
280
00:12:36,113 --> 00:12:37,184
you go there and try to subscribe,
281
00:12:37,184 --> 00:12:39,526
they're gonna sell sell you a digital
trial,
282
00:12:39,526 --> 00:12:44,390
essentially. but you know, of of all the
research that I did,
283
00:12:44,390 --> 00:12:48,533
I didn't crow come across any data that
suggested that print is fine finding
284
00:12:48,594 --> 00:12:51,696
new buyers. It's serving old buyers,
285
00:12:51,696 --> 00:12:54,198
right? Old subscribers. ~
286
00:12:51,922 --> 00:12:53,661
Yeah. Yeah.
287
00:12:54,358 --> 00:12:59,322
now, like I said before, we have some
publishers that did start a print product,
288
00:12:59,322 --> 00:13:00,583
and we'll talk about that in a minute.
289
00:13:00,583 --> 00:13:02,505
and
290
00:13:02,883 --> 00:13:04,917
they're obviously looking for new buyers.
291
00:13:04,917 --> 00:13:07,551
But the overall trend is, you know,
292
00:13:07,551 --> 00:13:10,166
serving the existing the existing base,
293
00:13:10,166 --> 00:13:11,909
which is which is pretty pretty
interesting.
294
00:13:10,684 --> 00:13:11,684
Yeah.
295
00:13:11,964 --> 00:13:15,875
And that also kind of tracks too with
legacy publishers who have a print product
296
00:13:15,875 --> 00:13:18,786
who go online and offer their e edition,
297
00:13:18,786 --> 00:13:21,117
oftentimes their e edition, at least in
the beginning,
298
00:13:21,117 --> 00:13:23,778
will be one of their biggest pages,
299
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:24,645
Right. Right.
300
00:13:23,778 --> 00:13:24,778
right?
301
00:13:25,048 --> 00:13:27,129
Has the highest traffic out of everything
else.
302
00:13:27,129 --> 00:13:28,129
That does
303
00:13:27,333 --> 00:13:28,333
Yeah.
304
00:13:27,989 --> 00:13:33,070
that does shift over time, but in the
beginning that tends to be where people
go,
305
00:13:33,070 --> 00:13:36,077
to to look. So yeah.
306
00:13:34,981 --> 00:13:36,552
I agree. I think the e-edition
307
00:13:36,552 --> 00:13:40,135
is something you should lock down and
makes it's part of your your
308
00:13:40,135 --> 00:13:44,508
~ digital subscription plan and ~ not
print.
309
00:13:44,508 --> 00:13:45,945
Doesn't it's not part of the print.
310
00:13:45,945 --> 00:13:50,823
It and you'll find that the you know the
the older readers who like
311
00:13:50,823 --> 00:13:55,976
the print format will continue to read
this very difficult to navigate
312
00:13:56,577 --> 00:14:02,121
e edition just because it looks like a
newspaper or looks like a magazine and
313
00:14:02,439 --> 00:14:04,099
They have the time to sit and kind of,
314
00:14:04,099 --> 00:14:06,880
know, and they get used to the controls
and and they get through it.
315
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,151
And it's amazing to me. But that's that's
what's happening.
316
00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:10,658
Yeah. Yeah.
317
00:14:11,872 --> 00:14:13,762
okay, let me see. So on the other,
318
00:14:13,762 --> 00:14:15,493
okay, so on the other end of the spectrum,
319
00:14:15,493 --> 00:14:19,054
on the digital side, if you look at the
Nordic countries,
320
00:14:19,054 --> 00:14:24,195
~ like Sweden, Sweden is is close to 100%
digital
321
00:14:24,195 --> 00:14:28,596
in terms of subscription, ~ like news
subscription sales.
322
00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:30,497
They they have really
323
00:14:31,193 --> 00:14:34,246
migrated out of print very, very quickly.
324
00:14:34,246 --> 00:14:36,878
~ Norway is kind of in a similar boat.
325
00:14:36,878 --> 00:14:42,552
and then some of the and I don't know why
is sort of the northern European,
326
00:14:42,552 --> 00:14:47,466
but even the UK, you know, generally
embrace digital subscriptions pretty early
327
00:14:47,486 --> 00:14:51,509
on ~ in in the ~ in the paywall space,
328
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:53,451
which which I find fascinating.
329
00:14:53,451 --> 00:14:55,813
~
330
00:14:53,905 --> 00:14:54,905
Yeah.
331
00:14:55,813 --> 00:15:00,046
okay so all right, so let's talk a little
bit about ~ like like what
332
00:15:00,046 --> 00:15:01,046
are the what are the
333
00:15:00,904 --> 00:15:03,215
questions to help you make the decision.
334
00:15:03,215 --> 00:15:09,798
~ I hinted towards ~ magazine publishers
versus news publishers.
335
00:15:09,798 --> 00:15:12,860
So if if you're in sort of the design
space,
336
00:15:12,860 --> 00:15:14,321
right? Like you're a magazine,
337
00:15:14,321 --> 00:15:17,642
you have a niche and you're you're in sort
of heavy design mode,
338
00:15:17,642 --> 00:15:20,444
then the print, yes, can be the product.
339
00:15:20,444 --> 00:15:24,946
Like it's and it's it's a it's actually a
different product because
340
00:15:25,106 --> 00:15:28,148
in the news world, it's like we read news
on our phones,
341
00:15:28,148 --> 00:15:29,338
we we
342
00:15:30,641 --> 00:15:33,753
We might just listen to podcast ~ news
while we're driving.
343
00:15:33,753 --> 00:15:36,714
~ we're we're here to get intel on stuff.
344
00:15:36,714 --> 00:15:39,286
It's kind of transactional. Like we want
to know what's going on,
345
00:15:39,286 --> 00:15:40,646
what are the solutions out there?
346
00:15:40,646 --> 00:15:43,524
Magazine, like a design driven magazine,
347
00:15:43,524 --> 00:15:45,039
it's a very different experience,
348
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,671
right? Like you're you're sitting in in a
in a comfortable chair or at
349
00:15:48,671 --> 00:15:52,303
the table in a in a relaxed way and you're
paging through.
350
00:15:52,303 --> 00:15:58,566
So it's, you know, we call that a lean
back behavior versus ~ the the news lean
351
00:15:58,566 --> 00:15:59,717
in behavior.
352
00:16:00,437 --> 00:16:02,758
~ and that in that case, yeah,
353
00:16:02,758 --> 00:16:04,858
the magazine really is the product.
354
00:16:04,858 --> 00:16:08,179
~ so like the fisherman magazine,
355
00:16:08,179 --> 00:16:10,250
you know, you're you're a fishing
enthusiast.
356
00:16:10,250 --> 00:16:12,490
Enthusiast magazines are are big today,
357
00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:15,651
and people get the magazine and it's fun
to read.
358
00:16:15,651 --> 00:16:18,802
~ any really any kind of enthusiast.
359
00:16:18,802 --> 00:16:25,534
the other thing that I keep hearing and I
think is really valid is AI protection,
360
00:16:25,534 --> 00:16:28,337
right? So if you're printing ~
361
00:16:28,837 --> 00:16:31,998
your your news and you're printing a
magazine,
362
00:16:31,998 --> 00:16:37,289
yeah, it's it's it's you're obviously
protecting the that experience
363
00:16:37,289 --> 00:16:38,920
you cannot replicate through AI.
364
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,031
~ and there's a trust factor too that has
value,
365
00:16:43,031 --> 00:16:46,569
I think, but trust comes through the
content and the,
366
00:16:46,569 --> 00:16:50,243
you know, I think the the that kind of
behavior from the publisher.
367
00:16:50,243 --> 00:16:52,934
But yeah, sure, if you're printing a
newspaper,
368
00:16:52,934 --> 00:16:54,184
if you're printing a magazine,
369
00:16:54,184 --> 00:16:58,285
the trust ~ tends to skew pretty high.
370
00:16:59,142 --> 00:17:04,767
I'd say. So okay. The next one is kind of
in the ~ we talked about the news space,
371
00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:09,061
which is actually cheapest to keep in
print,
372
00:17:09,061 --> 00:17:11,013
right? But easiest to transition.
373
00:17:11,013 --> 00:17:13,105
Since you're not really dealing with
design,
374
00:17:13,105 --> 00:17:17,279
you can kind of get out of news and it's
we'll talk about how to.
375
00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:19,141
But then there's sort of this other space,
376
00:17:19,141 --> 00:17:24,156
the how to space. ~ so we had
377
00:17:24,302 --> 00:17:25,593
We should talk about track and field a
little bit.
378
00:17:25,593 --> 00:17:30,605
Let's talk about ~ so brew brew your own
and winemaker.
379
00:17:30,605 --> 00:17:33,556
They are in the how to, how to,
380
00:17:33,556 --> 00:17:35,146
how to make beer, how to make wine.
381
00:17:35,146 --> 00:17:39,418
And they a year ago, they we did a
separate podcast just on this,
382
00:17:39,418 --> 00:17:43,630
but a year ago they went ~ they just went
cold turkey on print.
383
00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:47,261
~ and they you know they messaged their
readers appropriately.
384
00:17:47,261 --> 00:17:53,054
~ they lost ~ a a percentage of their
readership,
385
00:17:53,054 --> 00:17:54,054
but it wasn't a
386
00:17:53,944 --> 00:17:57,837
calamity and they have been able to
absolutely build back in a year.
387
00:17:57,837 --> 00:18:04,523
and we'll talk about what makes what what
make made that work
388
00:18:04,523 --> 00:18:07,565
~ for them. But that, you know,
389
00:18:07,565 --> 00:18:09,367
if you think about it, yeah, it was a
magazine.
390
00:18:09,367 --> 00:18:12,309
~ but is it design related? It's like how
to,
391
00:18:12,309 --> 00:18:15,802
you know, is it like it's not like a
lifestyle design magazine.
392
00:18:15,802 --> 00:18:17,524
It's like you're it's kind of nuts and
bolts.
393
00:18:17,524 --> 00:18:18,815
It's like, okay, how do I do this?
394
00:18:18,815 --> 00:18:20,336
How do I make I need this recipe,
395
00:18:20,336 --> 00:18:22,458
I need, you know, like I need guidance.
396
00:18:22,860 --> 00:18:24,351
I probably need video content too,
397
00:18:24,351 --> 00:18:26,352
which is tough to do in print.
398
00:18:26,352 --> 00:18:30,515
so that was two how-tos.
399
00:18:30,515 --> 00:18:34,397
I need to talk a little bit about track
and field.
400
00:18:34,397 --> 00:18:37,624
This was super interesting. ~ this
happened a few years ago.
401
00:18:37,624 --> 00:18:44,203
We were onboarding them and they decided
in the middle
402
00:18:44,203 --> 00:18:48,395
of the onboard ~ to stop printing their
magazine.
403
00:18:48,395 --> 00:18:49,496
~ and
404
00:18:50,406 --> 00:18:52,687
We you know, we were like, okay.
405
00:18:52,687 --> 00:18:57,729
~ and so the bottom line is they went nine
months without a print product.
406
00:18:57,729 --> 00:19:02,181
And it's news. It's like they're reporting
on track and field news events.
407
00:19:02,181 --> 00:19:04,122
It's not design, it really is news.
408
00:19:04,122 --> 00:19:05,673
That's why it's called track and field
news.
409
00:19:05,673 --> 00:19:12,005
But the their their readers were skewed
older and they sent the best.
410
00:19:12,005 --> 00:19:14,917
I I they they were sharing their email
campaigns with us and they were,
411
00:19:14,917 --> 00:19:16,958
you know, it's like the voice of the was
like,
412
00:19:16,958 --> 00:19:17,958
Hey, we know you love.
413
00:19:18,009 --> 00:19:20,890
print and we but we we need to survive as
a publication.
414
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:22,480
All they they said all the right things.
415
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,541
We need your support and all that.
416
00:19:24,541 --> 00:19:29,190
But the bottom line is is half their ~
demographic just didn't want
417
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:32,943
to log into anything. They were they were
sort of in that stage where it was like,
418
00:19:32,943 --> 00:19:36,925
Yeah, we're gonna we're not gonna we just
can't subscribe because I can't
419
00:19:37,065 --> 00:19:38,785
I can't be bothered to log into something.
420
00:19:38,785 --> 00:19:41,346
We had one there was one, I think it was a
doctor.
421
00:19:42,134 --> 00:19:46,655
He loved the magazine so much he hired
FedEx to print out every single digital
issue
422
00:19:46,655 --> 00:19:49,656
and ship it to the him every month at a
cost of like,
423
00:19:49,656 --> 00:19:52,637
you know, a hundred whatever dollars per
month.
424
00:19:52,637 --> 00:19:56,178
Cause he just loved the the the print
edition so much.
425
00:19:56,178 --> 00:19:58,679
Yeah. Yeah. It was it was worth it to him.
426
00:19:56,266 --> 00:19:59,091
my goodness. Hmm.
427
00:19:58,679 --> 00:19:59,679
And
428
00:19:59,339 --> 00:20:03,160
so okay, so what happened after nine
months?
429
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,552
they figured out that people weren't
logging in and they're like,
430
00:20:07,552 --> 00:20:08,552
okay, well.
431
00:20:09,438 --> 00:20:11,199
Let's bring back the print product,
432
00:20:11,199 --> 00:20:13,780
but let's do it differently. They so now
they're on print on demand,
433
00:20:13,780 --> 00:20:16,781
right? And their previous, no,
434
00:20:16,781 --> 00:20:18,862
this is public information if you look
around,
435
00:20:18,862 --> 00:20:24,034
but if their previous ~ like original ~
pricing for their magazine was like
436
00:20:24,034 --> 00:20:26,895
$29 a year, which was back in the day,
437
00:20:26,895 --> 00:20:28,956
that was a really typical price point.
438
00:20:28,956 --> 00:20:32,237
And then your ads carried your your
magazine.
439
00:20:32,237 --> 00:20:38,830
if you look now, I guess I can go look
now.
440
00:20:39,242 --> 00:20:42,291
I can see that their top product is a
hundred and thirty eight dollars.
441
00:20:42,291 --> 00:20:46,582
So, you know, they increased their they
increased their pricing.
442
00:20:46,582 --> 00:20:47,582
~
443
00:20:47,168 --> 00:20:49,249
you know, four X, whatever, ~ a lot.
444
00:20:49,249 --> 00:20:54,333
Five X almost. ~ and that's that's another
way to do it is decide to keep
445
00:20:54,333 --> 00:21:00,307
the print product for that, for those
readers who who just love the format
446
00:21:00,307 --> 00:21:01,928
so much and you know who you are,
447
00:21:01,928 --> 00:21:03,199
I think if you're hearing this.
448
00:21:03,199 --> 00:21:07,342
~ and then j but raise your pri make sure
you're it's a profit center.
449
00:21:07,342 --> 00:21:10,464
Like you have to make money. And their
volume,
450
00:21:10,464 --> 00:21:14,207
their print volume is is certainly quite a
bit lower than it was back in the day.
451
00:21:14,207 --> 00:21:16,088
But you know, we look at their
452
00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:20,177
We look at their digital and print and
digital subscriptions come through
453
00:21:20,177 --> 00:21:23,600
in the back end and you know, it's every
day,
454
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,462
it's substantial. Like they they figured
it out,
455
00:21:26,462 --> 00:21:29,475
right? and it and it's working.
456
00:21:29,475 --> 00:21:34,730
So in that case where your readers are
really are need the print product,
457
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:36,492
that that's a good solution.
458
00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:43,325
So they're they're those print editions
are on demand and being fulfilled
459
00:21:43,325 --> 00:21:46,487
by a like a company somewhere that's so as
you order
460
00:21:44,054 --> 00:21:45,436
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
461
00:21:46,487 --> 00:21:50,851
it you get a print copy made for you and
it's sent to your house and that
462
00:21:50,851 --> 00:21:55,614
way you don't have a stack of I guess
print editions to to mail out.
463
00:21:52,758 --> 00:21:56,049
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
464
00:21:56,049 --> 00:21:57,049
Yep.
465
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,550
That's how they that's how they solved
that problem.
466
00:21:58,550 --> 00:22:01,051
Yeah. They didn't want to deal with
inventory.
467
00:22:01,051 --> 00:22:02,922
They just just wanted to send it out.
468
00:22:02,922 --> 00:22:05,033
And yeah, it was more it's more money to
do it that way,
469
00:22:05,033 --> 00:22:07,124
for sure. But but
470
00:22:05,251 --> 00:22:07,092
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
471
00:22:07,124 --> 00:22:09,515
the the price increase, you know,
472
00:22:09,515 --> 00:22:13,827
took care of that. that's a that's a
pretty neat one.
473
00:22:13,827 --> 00:22:16,978
~ let me just tell another story and we'll
get into the how to's.
474
00:22:16,978 --> 00:22:21,080
~ you know these guys. So my villager is
475
00:22:22,238 --> 00:22:27,830
Weekly sh I should say was a weekly
newspaper in Saint Paul.
476
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:34,552
and there ~ they were running about thirty
thousand
477
00:22:34,952 --> 00:22:40,533
print copies freely distributed every week
through retail stores in Saint Paul.
478
00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:46,295
And they decided that they wanted to go to
digital subscriptions.
479
00:22:46,295 --> 00:22:48,413
They wanted to not stop printing.
480
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,531
But start charging for print and charging
for digital subscriptions.
481
00:22:52,531 --> 00:22:57,003
I'd say this is probably one of the big
reverse,
482
00:22:57,003 --> 00:23:01,155
big, big, biggest changes I've seen a
publisher do when,
483
00:23:01,155 --> 00:23:03,496
you know, their their philosophy was
everything is free.
484
00:23:03,496 --> 00:23:07,807
Read the ads, and the ad revenue,
485
00:23:07,807 --> 00:23:09,368
you know, was dropping. And they were
like,
486
00:23:09,368 --> 00:23:15,900
wait a second, we need to ~ we need to
lean in on our content and charge for
access.
487
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:17,351
And it and it worked.
488
00:23:17,575 --> 00:23:21,567
They were, you know, they were able to
essentially ~ again,
489
00:23:21,567 --> 00:23:23,858
communication was everything with their
audience saying,
490
00:23:23,858 --> 00:23:25,439
Look, we need in order to survive,
491
00:23:25,439 --> 00:23:28,011
we need your support. We're gonna create
more great content,
492
00:23:28,011 --> 00:23:29,191
we're gonna do all these great things,
493
00:23:29,191 --> 00:23:30,872
but we're gonna charge a subscription.
494
00:23:30,872 --> 00:23:33,274
And all of a sudden, look again,
495
00:23:33,274 --> 00:23:35,565
looking at the numbers on the back end,
496
00:23:35,565 --> 00:23:37,686
it's like, wow, people were just like,
497
00:23:37,686 --> 00:23:43,009
Take my money, you know. ~ and so now I
think now they're a twice
498
00:23:43,009 --> 00:23:46,701
a month ~ paid ~
499
00:23:47,145 --> 00:23:51,127
print publication. And then of course they
have digital subscriptions running,
500
00:23:51,127 --> 00:23:53,007
which is carrying carrying the ball for
them.
501
00:23:53,007 --> 00:23:58,430
~ really, really interesting thing.
502
00:23:58,430 --> 00:24:00,000
All right, what else we got? I got one
more.
503
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,662
Okay, one more for you. This is in the
creation,
504
00:24:02,662 --> 00:24:05,613
~ like should you should you start a pr a
print publication?
505
00:24:05,613 --> 00:24:09,765
~ and yeah, we have ~ let's see,
506
00:24:09,765 --> 00:24:14,827
catch magazine, they started up ~ with the
print publication that was maybe
507
00:24:14,827 --> 00:24:15,827
a year ago.
508
00:24:15,995 --> 00:24:17,265
And they're they're doing okay.
509
00:24:17,265 --> 00:24:19,526
you know, really fancy fly fishing,
510
00:24:19,526 --> 00:24:22,568
like, you know, money, advertising,
511
00:24:22,568 --> 00:24:25,369
you know, it's enthusiast hobby
publication.
512
00:24:25,369 --> 00:24:29,971
~ but small boats, what they did is they
were never print.
513
00:24:29,971 --> 00:24:33,472
They were always digital. They were pub
publishing digital issues.
514
00:24:33,472 --> 00:24:36,343
They took their content and made it into a
coffee table book.
515
00:24:36,343 --> 00:24:38,304
So they looked at their analytics and they
said,
516
00:24:38,304 --> 00:24:41,235
Hey, well, let's see, what are our popular
articles for the year?
517
00:24:41,235 --> 00:24:45,357
One of the most popular, put together a c
~ a Christmas
518
00:24:45,693 --> 00:24:50,217
You know, addition a coffee table book and
it's old and it did really well for them.
519
00:24:50,217 --> 00:24:51,217
Yeah.
520
00:24:50,903 --> 00:24:51,903
Interesting.
521
00:24:51,459 --> 00:24:55,302
Yeah. So if you're in a especially they're
in a passion hobby,
522
00:24:55,302 --> 00:24:57,804
this is all about how to build small
wooden boats.
523
00:24:57,804 --> 00:25:01,228
And ~ you can imagine,
524
00:25:01,228 --> 00:25:03,750
you know, the folks in this have time and
money,
525
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:09,516
and so buying a nice coffee table book is
~ is probably a good move for them.
526
00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:10,897
Okay.
527
00:25:09,901 --> 00:25:10,912
Yeah, yeah, it's funny
528
00:25:11,032 --> 00:25:12,032
it's funny you mentioned that.
529
00:25:12,012 --> 00:25:18,417
We we we occasionally see ~ news
publishers start
530
00:25:18,457 --> 00:25:22,719
publications in news deserts throughout
the country and
531
00:25:22,257 --> 00:25:23,257
Mm.
532
00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:26,722
they start a print side of their ~
533
00:25:26,967 --> 00:25:27,967
interesting.
534
00:25:27,603 --> 00:25:30,044
Yeah, and it's you know, at first you're
like,
535
00:25:29,723 --> 00:25:31,467
Why? Why? Yeah, why?
536
00:25:30,044 --> 00:25:32,226
Well, why would you do that? I it's
537
00:25:32,306 --> 00:25:34,627
~ it's to qualify for public notice.
538
00:25:35,273 --> 00:25:39,124
~ I gotcha. I gotcha.
539
00:25:38,976 --> 00:25:42,047
And in some cases it makes sense if you
think about it.
540
00:25:39,325 --> 00:25:40,325
Okay.
541
00:25:42,648 --> 00:25:44,118
if you're doing a weekly publication,
542
00:25:44,118 --> 00:25:45,929
you've got fifty two, you know,
543
00:25:45,929 --> 00:25:50,671
newspapers that you need to create each
year and ~
544
00:25:48,541 --> 00:25:50,172
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
545
00:25:51,412 --> 00:25:54,623
if the numbers work out and there's no one
else handling public notice
546
00:25:54,623 --> 00:25:57,945
in in your district, then you're the you
will be the one they come to
547
00:25:57,945 --> 00:26:01,516
and ~ if you're starting fresh and you
don't have the overhead,
548
00:26:01,516 --> 00:26:02,897
then I think it can work.
549
00:26:02,237 --> 00:26:03,755
Mm. Mm.
550
00:26:04,358 --> 00:26:05,358
but
551
00:26:05,016 --> 00:26:08,043
But yeah, it's it happens. We see it from
from time to time.
552
00:26:07,506 --> 00:26:09,050
Interesting. Interesting.
553
00:26:08,043 --> 00:26:09,279
Like even recently, yeah.
554
00:26:09,792 --> 00:26:12,199
Can you can you create a public notice
newspaper?
555
00:26:12,199 --> 00:26:14,946
That's free?
556
00:26:13,794 --> 00:26:15,805
There the states the states
557
00:26:15,805 --> 00:26:22,119
are are are really like the statutes are
very intense around like what qualifies
558
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,021
you as a newspaper and
559
00:26:22,937 --> 00:26:24,093
Mm. Mm.
560
00:26:24,301 --> 00:26:28,063
like you have to jump through all of these
different hoops and every single state
561
00:26:28,163 --> 00:26:29,464
has different requirements.
562
00:26:29,766 --> 00:26:30,766
Okay.
563
00:26:30,345 --> 00:26:34,508
But but yeah, it's it's not not easy ~ to
qualify in most cases.
564
00:26:35,581 --> 00:26:37,107
Yeah, that makes sense. Interesting.
565
00:26:37,107 --> 00:26:40,220
That sounds like a big lift. ~ yeah.
566
00:26:38,984 --> 00:26:40,735
It's a lot. It's a big investment
567
00:26:40,735 --> 00:26:43,475
of time, ~ and also money for you know,
568
00:26:43,475 --> 00:26:45,587
in this particular publisher's case,
569
00:26:45,587 --> 00:26:46,587
you gotta do it for
570
00:26:46,003 --> 00:26:47,003
Right.
571
00:26:46,378 --> 00:26:51,731
a whole year before you qualify for that
notice flow of income.
572
00:26:51,731 --> 00:26:53,892
So anyway.
573
00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:54,011
Interesting. ~
574
00:26:54,371 --> 00:26:59,091
I'm gonna okay, I wanna shift to ~ I wanna
shift into like what do you do?
575
00:26:59,091 --> 00:27:01,032
Like how what are what are good ways to
transition?
576
00:27:01,032 --> 00:27:04,653
What what are the things we've seen our
publishers do that have helped
577
00:27:04,894 --> 00:27:10,306
the transition? And the to no surprise to
you before we get into
578
00:27:10,306 --> 00:27:13,377
the details of of digital and print,
579
00:27:13,377 --> 00:27:17,338
the number one thing to do is to build
your email list.
580
00:27:17,338 --> 00:27:18,708
I mean your
581
00:27:20,301 --> 00:27:24,174
When you when you're in digital or when
you're when you're if if you have
582
00:27:24,174 --> 00:27:26,516
to make the decision to drop print and
it's a big decision,
583
00:27:26,516 --> 00:27:30,659
it's a big hit, ~ newsletter becomes the
new product,
584
00:27:30,659 --> 00:27:32,461
right? You may have a newsletter,
585
00:27:32,461 --> 00:27:36,044
but you haven't really spent time making
it incredibly awesome,
586
00:27:36,044 --> 00:27:42,980
right? And the newsletter is the is the
engine that drives traffic back
587
00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:44,971
to your site. So the bigger your your
list,
588
00:27:44,971 --> 00:27:46,983
the more traffic you get back to the site,
589
00:27:46,983 --> 00:27:49,485
more chances you have for digital
upgrades.
590
00:27:50,075 --> 00:27:52,257
And the newsletter becomes the product.
591
00:27:52,257 --> 00:27:56,350
you have in paid subscriptions,
592
00:27:56,350 --> 00:27:58,992
you have two newsletters too. You have a
free newsletter and a paid newsletter,
593
00:27:58,992 --> 00:28:00,674
and they both offer opportunities.
594
00:28:00,674 --> 00:28:03,146
So you essentially you're gonna spend some
time,
595
00:28:03,146 --> 00:28:06,489
mostly time, maybe a little bit of money,
596
00:28:06,489 --> 00:28:11,343
but mostly time getting your newsletter or
product right because it's
597
00:28:11,343 --> 00:28:15,616
the it's the number one thing that lands
in people's inboxes every week,
598
00:28:15,616 --> 00:28:18,358
over and over and over and over again.
599
00:28:18,358 --> 00:28:19,358
You can't
600
00:28:19,563 --> 00:28:21,984
You know, it's hard to much harder to do
that with print.
601
00:28:21,984 --> 00:28:24,826
So the digital space gives you that
opportunity.
602
00:28:24,826 --> 00:28:29,786
Now, ~ just to get into the details a
little bit,
603
00:28:29,786 --> 00:28:33,621
I mean the the the number thing number one
thing you gotta do is stop
604
00:28:33,621 --> 00:28:38,103
the n the pop-up nonsense on your website
where you're asking people to
605
00:28:38,103 --> 00:28:40,735
opt in or using opt-in monster or
something like that,
606
00:28:40,735 --> 00:28:47,308
and start up a registration wall which
requires people to drop in their news
their
607
00:28:47,308 --> 00:28:48,359
email into
608
00:28:49,172 --> 00:28:54,293
here to get access. And so you you need to
build a flywheel here.
609
00:28:54,293 --> 00:28:57,894
We call this the publisher flywheel and it
starts with the email address.
610
00:28:57,894 --> 00:28:59,975
So essentially you have great content,
611
00:28:59,975 --> 00:29:02,225
your it's your superpower, you have an
audience,
612
00:29:02,225 --> 00:29:04,716
that's your superpower. Now you gotta
leverage that,
613
00:29:04,716 --> 00:29:08,267
right? And so let's say after one article
you say,
614
00:29:08,267 --> 00:29:11,847
look, drop off your email address and
you'll get the next article or
615
00:29:11,847 --> 00:29:14,438
two or whatever you decide, however
generous you want to be.
616
00:29:14,438 --> 00:29:18,299
Now you're essentially and we we just we
we
617
00:29:18,969 --> 00:29:21,630
Just released the publisher's ~ AI
survival guide.
618
00:29:21,630 --> 00:29:25,301
Just go to leakypaywall.com and you'll see
it pop up for you.
619
00:29:25,301 --> 00:29:28,152
At least by the time this podcast comes
out,
620
00:29:28,152 --> 00:29:34,433
it'll pop up. ~ and essentially what we
found looking across hundreds
621
00:29:34,433 --> 00:29:39,365
of publishers is that if you put something
like this registration wall in place,
622
00:29:39,365 --> 00:29:45,226
your email signups are about 2x to 7x
greater than
623
00:29:45,226 --> 00:29:48,067
a news letter opt-in.
624
00:29:48,397 --> 00:29:52,210
Essentially. So newsletter opt-ins get
like point nine percent
625
00:29:52,210 --> 00:29:56,064
of traffic and registration wall.
626
00:29:56,064 --> 00:30:02,850
This registration wall ~ gains about I
think the number was 3.2 to 6.7% were
627
00:30:02,850 --> 00:30:07,964
the actual numbers. ~ that's a that's
that's a that's times ~ sorry,
628
00:30:07,964 --> 00:30:14,950
X, not percent, X. So average four or five
times more email addresses than
629
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:15,950
an opt-in.
630
00:30:16,003 --> 00:30:17,533
This is how you blow up your email list.
631
00:30:17,533 --> 00:30:18,904
And you're getting people to register.
632
00:30:18,904 --> 00:30:20,164
They get a password after this.
633
00:30:20,164 --> 00:30:22,945
And in our case, people can log in through
this as well.
634
00:30:22,945 --> 00:30:26,466
This works like crazy. It's the start of
the flywheel.
635
00:30:26,466 --> 00:30:29,887
So important. I don't care what you're
doing.
636
00:30:29,887 --> 00:30:31,497
This is really the key. But if you're
going,
637
00:30:31,497 --> 00:30:34,228
if you're dropping print or you're cutting
down on print,
638
00:30:34,228 --> 00:30:36,949
you you you this is the way for you to
compensate.
639
00:30:36,949 --> 00:30:40,240
Really produce a kick-ass free newsletter,
640
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,290
which is all about, you know, selling the
upgrade message,
641
00:30:42,290 --> 00:30:44,441
and then the paid newsletter, which which
642
00:30:44,601 --> 00:30:46,312
just takes care of your paid readers.
643
00:30:46,312 --> 00:30:48,743
Yeah, you could look at premium content.
644
00:30:48,743 --> 00:30:51,505
You could look at ~ early delivery.
645
00:30:51,505 --> 00:30:53,256
You can you can do a lot of things.
646
00:30:53,256 --> 00:30:56,778
All this you can automate as especially ~
well.
647
00:30:56,778 --> 00:31:00,190
And ~ okay.
648
00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:01,681
Should I get off my soapbox now?
649
00:31:01,681 --> 00:31:06,304
~ so
650
00:31:07,265 --> 00:31:09,506
all right agreed Tyler what do think?
651
00:31:09,506 --> 00:31:11,137
Yep.
652
00:31:09,771 --> 00:31:10,771
Yeah, absolutely.
653
00:31:11,303 --> 00:31:17,221
I was a publisher last week had a a story
that kinda went viral in the town.
654
00:31:17,221 --> 00:31:21,117
It was a a scandal with the the the local
government or something.
655
00:31:21,117 --> 00:31:25,643
And we we noticed a spike in their ~ like
free sign ups,
656
00:31:25,643 --> 00:31:26,643
you know, and
657
00:31:26,295 --> 00:31:27,295
Mm-hmm.
658
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:31,384
You know, they built like two hundred
extra people on their list through that
story,
659
00:31:31,384 --> 00:31:33,827
right? Not through a sidebar widget that
they all want
660
00:31:31,695 --> 00:31:32,695
Just for one.
661
00:31:33,827 --> 00:31:36,541
to have on their websites. Most publishers
want us to add that,
662
00:31:36,541 --> 00:31:37,541
but through
663
00:31:36,847 --> 00:31:37,847
Yeah.
664
00:31:37,432 --> 00:31:39,535
the free registration, you know,
665
00:31:39,535 --> 00:31:42,388
~ system. So
666
00:31:43,454 --> 00:31:46,517
It works. And then now all of these people
are on the newsletter,
667
00:31:46,517 --> 00:31:49,910
right? And so now they're gonna start
seeing content on a weekly basis,
668
00:31:49,910 --> 00:31:52,713
a daily basis, and you know, hopefully at
some point
669
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:52,820
Exactly.
670
00:31:52,713 --> 00:31:54,344
we'll be able to convert them over to
paid.
671
00:31:54,344 --> 00:31:57,867
So so yeah, this this works. And and if
you didn't have that up and
672
00:31:57,867 --> 00:32:01,080
you had this viral story, you just had a
bunch of eyeballs that are fleeting,
673
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,283
right? Maybe you got twenty thousand page
views,
674
00:32:04,283 --> 00:32:05,283
but
675
00:32:05,054 --> 00:32:08,368
Zero people signed up for anything because
it was free.
676
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:09,187
Right. Right.
677
00:32:08,368 --> 00:32:09,889
No one's signing
678
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:13,733
up for a widget on the sidebar for your
newsletter when the content is free.
679
00:32:13,733 --> 00:32:14,733
That's
680
00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:15,029
Right.
681
00:32:14,424 --> 00:32:15,424
that's the point.
682
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:18,181
Yep. Yeah. And if you want a a ninja
tactic,
683
00:32:18,181 --> 00:32:19,781
if you have a story that's blowing up,
684
00:32:19,781 --> 00:32:23,693
~ just lock it down. Make people register
to read it.
685
00:32:23,693 --> 00:32:25,284
It's still free, but you get their email.
686
00:32:25,284 --> 00:32:29,736
And ~ we have a new dynamic paywall
function that that does that automatically
687
00:32:29,736 --> 00:32:32,046
for you if you're interested. Okay.
688
00:32:32,046 --> 00:32:34,027
~ just to finish the flywheel,
689
00:32:34,027 --> 00:32:36,568
that big that big list that's sending the
traffic back,
690
00:32:36,568 --> 00:32:39,740
remember when you do this, they're not
just email addresses,
691
00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,270
they're actually logged into your site.
692
00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:42,701
So that you're tracking
693
00:32:43,193 --> 00:32:45,664
their behavior throughout all the content.
694
00:32:45,664 --> 00:32:48,576
And then your insights should be
essentially telling you,
695
00:32:48,576 --> 00:32:51,386
hey, which of these free people are highly
engaged?
696
00:32:51,386 --> 00:32:54,569
And then you can target and then you can
target them and send them offers.
697
00:32:54,569 --> 00:32:56,080
And that's what our publishers do.
698
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,731
And it works like crazy. Okay.
699
00:32:57,731 --> 00:33:01,613
Sales pitch over. ~ okay so flipbooks.
700
00:33:01,613 --> 00:33:04,534
Let's talk a little bit about flipbooks
because that's something that
701
00:33:04,534 --> 00:33:08,717
~ print publishers ~ tend to embrace on
the web.
702
00:33:08,717 --> 00:33:12,563
We talked about it earlier and
703
00:33:13,048 --> 00:33:18,751
Yeah, it's easy to do. You take a PDF ~
and you upload it into ~ your your
Flipbook
704
00:33:18,751 --> 00:33:21,622
Maker. ~ we recommend real three D for
WordPress,
705
00:33:21,622 --> 00:33:25,624
real three D flipbook. ~ you can and you
can kind of control everything.
706
00:33:25,624 --> 00:33:29,276
It's cheap and and ~ and then just and
lock it down.
707
00:33:29,276 --> 00:33:33,638
And it becomes it becomes a perk for all
readers,
708
00:33:33,638 --> 00:33:36,500
really. Even if you're not like a print
reader,
709
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:40,442
sometimes it's fun just to kind of look at
what a print edition looks like.
710
00:33:40,442 --> 00:33:42,303
we
711
00:33:43,565 --> 00:33:45,687
With some crowds, it kinda it depends,
712
00:33:45,687 --> 00:33:47,979
but with some crowds, like I mentioned
before,
713
00:33:47,979 --> 00:33:50,190
the flip book is really the thing they're
paying for,
714
00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:51,341
right? You have to lock it down.
715
00:33:51,341 --> 00:33:55,900
and that that they they don't read
anything else because they're older
716
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:57,867
and they're just used to the format or
whatever.
717
00:33:57,867 --> 00:34:03,021
so ~ it's tough on mobile.
718
00:34:03,021 --> 00:34:05,693
Think of just remember, like reading a
flipbook on a phone,
719
00:34:05,693 --> 00:34:08,806
not fun. Yeah,
720
00:34:08,806 --> 00:34:12,018
desktop, fine, iPad, fine, phone,
721
00:34:12,018 --> 00:34:13,018
not so good.
722
00:34:13,271 --> 00:34:16,872
So you're you're you it's gotta be just
sort of a perk,
723
00:34:16,872 --> 00:34:18,392
an addition. It's not the product,
724
00:34:18,392 --> 00:34:23,954
it's just sort of a a an an extra for your
your subscription.
725
00:34:23,954 --> 00:34:30,046
~ instead, if you are a print publisher
and you have a deep archive of content,
726
00:34:30,046 --> 00:34:33,416
~ you wanna do the reverse. You wanna get
that archive,
727
00:34:33,416 --> 00:34:37,898
you want to get the archive out of your
PDFs and onto the web as real web
articles,
728
00:34:37,898 --> 00:34:41,035
HTML articles, because because of SEO,
729
00:34:41,035 --> 00:34:42,649
~ because of social sharing.
730
00:34:43,215 --> 00:34:47,579
~ what we find is when a like when a
publisher puts
731
00:34:47,579 --> 00:34:52,142
~ an article on their website,
732
00:34:52,142 --> 00:34:54,885
~ it's like a magnet for traffic.
733
00:34:54,885 --> 00:34:58,978
If if it's news, maybe that magnet is good
for a for for a period of time.
734
00:34:58,978 --> 00:35:00,800
But the evergreen content is the gold,
735
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,402
right? So news publishers do have
evergreen content,
736
00:35:03,402 --> 00:35:06,494
magazine publishers have almost all
evergreen content.
737
00:35:06,494 --> 00:35:10,368
So you want to get that on the web and
you'll you'll it just creates like forever
738
00:35:10,368 --> 00:35:11,929
traffic with social.
739
00:35:12,344 --> 00:35:15,146
And SEO and A AI discoverability too,
740
00:35:15,146 --> 00:35:19,659
which is a separate topic. ~ Modern
Drummer,
741
00:35:19,659 --> 00:35:22,291
when we onboarded ~ magazine, when we
onboarded them,
742
00:35:22,291 --> 00:35:27,754
they they started putting ~ their archives
~ once every month they published
743
00:35:27,754 --> 00:35:29,255
an issue going forward on the web.
744
00:35:29,255 --> 00:35:32,277
they published one archive issue going
backward,
745
00:35:32,277 --> 00:35:35,639
and they doubled their traffic in a year
without even trying.
746
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:41,143
It was just crazy how live web traffic was
generating.
747
00:35:42,291 --> 00:35:47,115
all that natural as you know organic ~
social sharing all that good stuff.
748
00:35:47,115 --> 00:35:53,279
Okay. I will throw in that
749
00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:57,412
we we have a a new new product for if you
have print archives and you want
750
00:35:57,412 --> 00:35:59,623
to get them on the web, go to reissue.app.
751
00:35:59,623 --> 00:36:03,546
Just check it out. There's ~ you can
upload I think right now it's up
752
00:36:03,546 --> 00:36:10,051
to three free issues to to ~ get all the ~
our AI basically translates all the text
753
00:36:10,655 --> 00:36:12,897
And the images and high quality,
754
00:36:12,897 --> 00:36:16,129
high resolution images, all the formatting
into WordPress posts.
755
00:36:16,129 --> 00:36:17,687
It just shoots them straight into
WordPress.
756
00:36:17,687 --> 00:36:22,243
So you can you can scan ~ an archive up to
a hundred megs,
757
00:36:22,243 --> 00:36:27,817
I think, the of a PDF. And you can you can
edit it quickly right in the app.
758
00:36:27,817 --> 00:36:29,328
And then when it's ready to go,
759
00:36:29,328 --> 00:36:33,171
you just shoot that straight in into
WordPress and they show up as draft posts.
760
00:36:33,171 --> 00:36:37,714
~ our publishers using it are telling us
that it's like magic.
761
00:36:37,714 --> 00:36:39,405
It's they've never seen anything like it.
762
00:36:39,855 --> 00:36:43,377
It's new product. Love to for you to just
try it.
763
00:36:43,377 --> 00:36:46,858
reissue dot app.
764
00:36:46,858 --> 00:36:49,480
Okay. wow, this is my second sales pitch.
765
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,352
How about that? ~ okay,
766
00:36:53,352 --> 00:36:55,923
we talked about email. ~
767
00:36:56,055 --> 00:36:59,506
Talked about the archive. And I'd say,
768
00:36:59,506 --> 00:37:01,246
and I don't know if you have any other
thoughts on this,
769
00:37:01,246 --> 00:37:04,103
but we we sort of talked about telling
readers why.
770
00:37:04,103 --> 00:37:06,374
Like if you're gonna make a big change in
print,
771
00:37:06,374 --> 00:37:11,415
tell your readers why. Be transparent
about why you need to do this.
772
00:37:11,415 --> 00:37:14,576
~ I mean, this goes, this is really,
773
00:37:14,576 --> 00:37:16,796
of course, this is like a human thing.
774
00:37:16,796 --> 00:37:19,267
It's like you're gonna do something
drastic.
775
00:37:19,267 --> 00:37:22,398
You just wanna explain to audience why
you're doing it.
776
00:37:22,398 --> 00:37:23,398
And
777
00:37:24,682 --> 00:37:28,906
Just remember, you're going to tell people
like why it's going to be better down
778
00:37:28,906 --> 00:37:30,407
the road. What are the benefits?
779
00:37:30,407 --> 00:37:32,448
You have the why. This is why we're doing
it.
780
00:37:32,448 --> 00:37:34,270
And here's how we're going to do it.
781
00:37:34,270 --> 00:37:36,192
And this is how it's going to be better.
782
00:37:36,192 --> 00:37:40,415
That's the storyline that you want to send
out in your emails or your print matter
783
00:37:40,415 --> 00:37:43,398
or whatever you use to communicate the big
change.
784
00:37:43,398 --> 00:37:49,342
so I think that's anything else on the
how-to department.
785
00:37:49,342 --> 00:37:53,406
We showed off a few articles, talked
about.
786
00:37:54,112 --> 00:37:59,344
Building an an email list. ~ and making
that the product,
787
00:37:59,344 --> 00:38:00,787
making the newsletter the product.
788
00:38:00,787 --> 00:38:02,932
Anything else, Tyler? Does that cover it
pretty good?
789
00:38:03,144 --> 00:38:04,299
Yeah, that that does it.
790
00:38:05,076 --> 00:38:07,419
I think we got it. Okay. All right.
791
00:38:07,419 --> 00:38:10,583
~ hopefully that was ~ helpful to you
guys.
792
00:38:10,583 --> 00:38:14,137
If you have questions, please reach out
info at leakypaywell dot com.
793
00:38:14,137 --> 00:38:17,851
And ~ hey, catch you next time.
794
00:38:17,851 --> 00:38:18,851
Thanks, Tyler.
795
00:38:19,124 --> 00:38:20,124
See you!
00:00:00,139 --> 00:00:03,611
Okay, today we're gonna talk about print.
2
00:00:03,611 --> 00:00:06,053
We're gonna talk about what to do.
3
00:00:06,053 --> 00:00:08,934
Should you start printing? Should you stop
printing?
4
00:00:08,934 --> 00:00:10,916
Or should you continue printing?
5
00:00:10,916 --> 00:00:15,745
And 10 years ago-ish, when we got serious
with leaky paywall,
6
00:00:15,745 --> 00:00:18,832
our first customer base were print
publishers.
7
00:00:18,832 --> 00:00:21,553
And we dealt we started doing a lot of
integrations.
8
00:00:21,553 --> 00:00:23,995
We heard a lot of stories, and then over
this decade.
9
00:00:24,987 --> 00:00:27,628
we have heard a lot of stories and I
thought it would be good to kind
10
00:00:27,628 --> 00:00:30,650
of put them all together, package them all
together in one podcast
11
00:00:30,650 --> 00:00:35,592
and share what we've seen publishers do
well and not do well and
12
00:00:35,652 --> 00:00:40,534
why print didn't work out and why print is
still working out with some publishers.
13
00:00:40,534 --> 00:00:42,255
So welcome, Tyler.
14
00:00:43,053 --> 00:00:44,811
Hello, hello. Sounds fun. Let's go.
15
00:00:45,037 --> 00:00:46,037
Let's
16
00:00:45,317 --> 00:00:46,317
go.
17
00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:17,273
we were talking offline a little bit
before,
18
00:01:17,273 --> 00:01:22,106
and you mentioned something about a print
publisher that didn't make it.
19
00:01:22,106 --> 00:01:23,795
shall we start there?
20
00:01:24,237 --> 00:01:28,880
Yeah. I I think I don't know the exact
statistics on this,
21
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,948
but I think there's like one or two local
news s publications that close
22
00:01:34,948 --> 00:01:36,960
in the ne in the US every week.
23
00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:37,960
~
24
00:01:37,376 --> 00:01:38,376
Mm.
25
00:01:37,940 --> 00:01:39,601
or maybe maybe it's even higher than that.
26
00:01:39,601 --> 00:01:40,601
I should
27
00:01:39,919 --> 00:01:40,919
Yeah.
28
00:01:40,302 --> 00:01:41,923
have been prepared for that for that.
29
00:01:41,923 --> 00:01:43,403
But I I know it's a high number,
30
00:01:43,403 --> 00:01:46,447
for especially for the weekly publishers
out there.
31
00:01:46,447 --> 00:01:48,808
They they are struggling and
32
00:01:49,595 --> 00:01:53,100
There are a number of r reasons for why
that is.
33
00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:55,511
we can we can jump into that if you want.
34
00:01:55,511 --> 00:01:56,511
but
35
00:01:56,597 --> 00:02:00,232
Well, how about how about this current
publisher that they're they've announced
that
36
00:02:00,232 --> 00:02:01,704
they're shutting down, is that right?
37
00:02:01,704 --> 00:02:03,667
Okay.
38
00:02:02,031 --> 00:02:03,962
That's right. Yeah. So a a print
39
00:02:03,962 --> 00:02:07,682
a print publication and there are there
there's more than more than
40
00:02:07,682 --> 00:02:09,733
one at this point, that have ~
41
00:02:09,062 --> 00:02:10,062
Right.
42
00:02:09,922 --> 00:02:11,803
decided to close up shop.
43
00:02:12,864 --> 00:02:18,421
And yeah, a legacy print operation had a
great robust digital operation.
44
00:02:18,421 --> 00:02:20,553
~ had a had a growing
45
00:02:19,157 --> 00:02:20,157
Mm.
46
00:02:20,570 --> 00:02:24,540
digital subscription base, not not
ginormous,
47
00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:26,862
not enough to staff, you know,
48
00:02:26,862 --> 00:02:33,672
fifteen people or anything, but certainly
enough to continue running their their
49
00:02:34,052 --> 00:02:36,324
you know, digital only system.
50
00:02:36,324 --> 00:02:37,324
So
51
00:02:36,505 --> 00:02:37,505
Hmm, mm.
52
00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:40,334
Are we allowed to reveal s have they
announced this publicly?
53
00:02:40,334 --> 00:02:41,776
Can we reveal who this is?
54
00:02:43,429 --> 00:02:46,574
Not unclear. Okay.
55
00:02:45,127 --> 00:02:46,127
Yeah.
56
00:02:46,574 --> 00:02:47,574
That's fine.
57
00:02:47,741 --> 00:02:50,304
I can give you better numbers if I if I
don't tell you who it is.
58
00:02:50,767 --> 00:02:51,767
Yeah, and
59
00:02:51,257 --> 00:02:55,928
you also and I remember years ago we we
actually did an article on
60
00:02:55,928 --> 00:03:00,057
a publisher that it was a print publisher
that turned on digital subscriptions,
61
00:03:00,057 --> 00:03:03,600
a very, very small town of West Virginia
and then but ultimately
62
00:03:04,006 --> 00:03:06,348
the the print anchor kinda dropped them,
63
00:03:06,348 --> 00:03:07,348
right?
64
00:03:07,663 --> 00:03:10,676
Yeah, so the one you're talking about in
in West Virginia,
65
00:03:10,676 --> 00:03:15,150
like they stopped printing altogether and
are still digital only to this day.
66
00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:19,103
Now they're a very small mom and pop type
operation in a very small
67
00:03:16,454 --> 00:03:18,874
Mm. Yeah.
68
00:03:19,103 --> 00:03:22,715
town and they don't have a lot of overhead
at this point.
69
00:03:22,715 --> 00:03:27,609
I think they work remote. So they can make
that work and it's growing.
70
00:03:27,609 --> 00:03:29,070
It's been slow but it's growing.
71
00:03:29,070 --> 00:03:31,602
~ and and and it's and it's possible,
72
00:03:29,572 --> 00:03:32,848
good. Okay. Okay.
73
00:03:31,602 --> 00:03:32,602
right? So
74
00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:35,713
But this recent one, they just couldn't do
it.
75
00:03:35,713 --> 00:03:37,767
It was what was it? What what
76
00:03:37,314 --> 00:03:38,314
Yeah.
77
00:03:37,767 --> 00:03:40,662
do you think it was that did him in?
78
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,972
I think there are special circumstances
with this publisher in terms
79
00:03:45,972 --> 00:03:48,328
of debt that was ~
80
00:03:47,738 --> 00:03:48,738
Mm.
81
00:03:49,148 --> 00:03:50,148
acquired.
82
00:03:50,220 --> 00:03:51,220
Yeah.
83
00:03:51,201 --> 00:03:57,804
that is difficult to repay if it all comes
due at the same time.
84
00:03:56,172 --> 00:03:59,221
Right. Right. Yeah, that's a problem.
85
00:03:57,804 --> 00:04:00,065
Yeah.
86
00:03:59,221 --> 00:04:00,221
Yep.
87
00:04:00,285 --> 00:04:01,285
So
88
00:04:01,058 --> 00:04:02,975
Could they have survived? I don't I don't
know.
89
00:04:02,975 --> 00:04:07,485
but I think if you look at print and print
publishers more broadly,
90
00:04:07,485 --> 00:04:12,048
they they struggle because of the cost of
their print.
91
00:04:12,048 --> 00:04:15,660
It's a ginormous anchor on them.
92
00:04:15,469 --> 00:04:16,490
Yeah. Yeah.
93
00:04:15,660 --> 00:04:16,660
~
94
00:04:16,791 --> 00:04:20,303
the reason that most of them print to
begin with is because of
95
00:04:20,303 --> 00:04:23,364
the public notice side of their business.
96
00:04:22,513 --> 00:04:24,286
Mm. Mm.
97
00:04:23,364 --> 00:04:24,364
So if
98
00:04:24,315 --> 00:04:25,850
you're unfamiliar with the that,
99
00:04:25,850 --> 00:04:26,904
public notices are
100
00:04:27,072 --> 00:04:31,274
basically can be anything from probate
101
00:04:31,274 --> 00:04:36,787
to you know businesses needing to publish
court orders,
102
00:04:36,787 --> 00:04:39,638
whatever, that are mandated by every
state,
103
00:04:39,638 --> 00:04:40,638
most states,
104
00:04:39,807 --> 00:04:40,807
Right.
105
00:04:40,507 --> 00:04:43,679
and the the news publisher makes money
from that.
106
00:04:43,679 --> 00:04:44,679
They have a a
107
00:04:43,952 --> 00:04:44,952
Right.
108
00:04:44,289 --> 00:04:47,551
state mandate, you know, we get to charge
a hundred and whatever dollars
109
00:04:47,551 --> 00:04:51,833
for this public notice. ~ but it usually
has to be print.
110
00:04:48,774 --> 00:04:51,270
But it has to be print. Mostly mostly.
111
00:04:51,270 --> 00:04:52,270
Yeah.
112
00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:52,833
Most
113
00:04:52,223 --> 00:04:55,135
states, like ninety percent, ninety five
percent of the states are all
114
00:04:55,446 --> 00:04:59,017
Still like you've gotta have a print
publication and you have to have printed
115
00:04:59,017 --> 00:05:02,248
for the last twelve months and there are
all these hoops you have
116
00:05:02,248 --> 00:05:05,099
to jump jump through in order to become
the qualified
117
00:05:04,434 --> 00:05:05,434
Mm.
118
00:05:05,099 --> 00:05:07,820
newspaper in your specific county or
district.
119
00:05:07,820 --> 00:05:12,972
So and like trying to sort through all of
that is like a complete nightmare.
120
00:05:12,972 --> 00:05:16,413
It's r it's really messy. So yeah,
121
00:05:15,116 --> 00:05:17,177
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.
122
00:05:16,413 --> 00:05:17,413
yeah.
123
00:05:17,357 --> 00:05:19,138
Yeah, so government government funds.
124
00:05:19,138 --> 00:05:22,036
that can probably dry up at any time too.
125
00:05:21,986 --> 00:05:22,986
Yeah.
126
00:05:22,727 --> 00:05:24,368
And that's like that's one fear,
127
00:05:24,368 --> 00:05:30,244
right, for a lot of super hyper local
newspapers is like if their advertising
isn't
128
00:05:30,244 --> 00:05:34,158
strong and they certainly don't have any
paid subscribers,
129
00:05:34,158 --> 00:05:38,532
the only thing that's really holding them
up would be public notice at that point.
130
00:05:38,532 --> 00:05:40,224
~ there's very very
131
00:05:38,808 --> 00:05:40,034
Mm. Yeah, that's tough.
132
00:05:40,224 --> 00:05:45,269
little like other other factors out there
as far as income goes,
133
00:05:45,269 --> 00:05:46,269
so
134
00:05:45,627 --> 00:05:49,993
Yeah. Gotcha. No, the this particular
publisher they were running digital
135
00:05:49,993 --> 00:05:52,086
subscriptions as well as print
subscriptions.
136
00:05:51,686 --> 00:05:52,686
That's right.
137
00:05:52,447 --> 00:05:56,389
Yep. And you think it would have been
different if they made the decision
138
00:05:56,389 --> 00:05:59,353
to stop printing like a couple of years
ago?
139
00:05:59,353 --> 00:06:01,594
Yeah.
140
00:06:00,138 --> 00:06:01,539
Probably. Yeah.
141
00:06:01,899 --> 00:06:06,383
Yeah, for sure. It's I know it's difficult
for for print publishers
142
00:06:06,383 --> 00:06:08,474
to even think like that because they do ha
have
143
00:06:08,104 --> 00:06:09,104
Mm.
144
00:06:08,474 --> 00:06:10,146
advertisers that are, you know,
145
00:06:10,146 --> 00:06:15,179
in their print product and they sell kind
of print advertising first
146
00:06:15,179 --> 00:06:17,891
and digital is kinda like this extra thing
versus,
147
00:06:17,891 --> 00:06:21,204
you know, selling digital first and
pretending
148
00:06:20,656 --> 00:06:21,656
Mm.
149
00:06:21,204 --> 00:06:24,827
that print doesn't exist, which is what we
tend to recommend,
150
00:06:24,827 --> 00:06:26,398
right? ~
151
00:06:25,479 --> 00:06:26,479
Right.
152
00:06:27,034 --> 00:06:29,557
we always tell publishers, if you have a
print product,
153
00:06:29,557 --> 00:06:32,760
pretend like you don't online and just
154
00:06:32,157 --> 00:06:33,157
Yeah.
155
00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:36,883
just sell the digital only and give them
the E edition access and then like forget
156
00:06:36,883 --> 00:06:41,668
trying to mail this thing ~ all over the
the country and sometimes
157
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,282
Right. Right.
158
00:06:41,668 --> 00:06:42,668
internationally. So
159
00:06:43,183 --> 00:06:45,335
Right. Yeah. And and f you know,
160
00:06:45,335 --> 00:06:49,834
for local news, I can see that that being
a really tough decision.
161
00:06:49,834 --> 00:06:52,165
but it's not just local news, you know,
162
00:06:52,165 --> 00:06:56,747
like magazine, we deal with a lot of
magazine or niche publishers that that
print,
163
00:06:56,747 --> 00:07:01,790
continue to print, and I I talk to them
and I hear things like,
164
00:07:01,790 --> 00:07:03,292
you know,
165
00:07:03,754 --> 00:07:10,100
If I if we just didn't have the print
expenses and logistics and time suck
166
00:07:10,113 --> 00:07:13,555
and all that. And you could see that they
go into this dreamy state when they
167
00:07:13,555 --> 00:07:15,726
say that. I have heard this, you know,
168
00:07:15,726 --> 00:07:17,717
before, but then it's like, wait a second,
169
00:07:17,717 --> 00:07:21,499
but you know, the print we have a print
magazine that's you know,
170
00:07:21,499 --> 00:07:26,572
that's our product. And that's I think
that's where things get a little little
hazy
171
00:07:26,572 --> 00:07:31,935
for publishers, is like, is the is the
paper or is the magazine the product?
172
00:07:33,005 --> 00:07:34,809
Or is it just part of the product,
173
00:07:34,809 --> 00:07:39,759
right? Or is it just a delivery vehicle
for the product,
174
00:07:38,935 --> 00:07:40,606
Yeah, yeah.
175
00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:40,759
right?
176
00:07:40,966 --> 00:07:43,487
So for everyone listening and thinking
like,
177
00:07:43,487 --> 00:07:47,930
my god, is like news, local news or like
all this stuff like a waste of time?
178
00:07:47,930 --> 00:07:53,293
Is it all dying and like is there any hope
that there's revenue to be made?
179
00:07:53,293 --> 00:07:58,998
And I'll just say that we work with a lot
of digital first publications that have
180
00:07:58,998 --> 00:08:02,148
never had a print anchor. And they don't
think about this stuff.
181
00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:05,850
They just they write content, they send
out newsletters.
182
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,199
They grow their digital subscribers and as
you know,
183
00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:11,831
when they when the subscriber comes on
board,
184
00:08:11,831 --> 00:08:15,133
there's like virtually no cost because
it's it's a digital operation,
185
00:08:15,133 --> 00:08:18,534
right? there's no there's no print product
that you have to mail to them.
186
00:08:18,534 --> 00:08:23,357
And they they grow, right? So it's it's
really difficult to sort
187
00:08:23,357 --> 00:08:29,262
of turn a legacy print operation and
reverse
188
00:08:29,554 --> 00:08:30,554
Mm.
189
00:08:30,322 --> 00:08:32,484
the workflow for them because they fight
190
00:08:33,097 --> 00:08:34,097
Right.
191
00:08:33,595 --> 00:08:35,376
almost every part of it and I get it,
192
00:08:35,376 --> 00:08:38,799
you're you're used to this this workflow
that you've been doing for
193
00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:43,272
the last however many decades and now
you're trying to think digital first
194
00:08:43,272 --> 00:08:44,543
and it's hard to believe
195
00:08:43,442 --> 00:08:44,442
Yep. Yeah.
196
00:08:44,543 --> 00:08:46,494
that we're still having that that
discussion,
197
00:08:46,494 --> 00:08:48,113
you know, in twenty twenty six.
198
00:08:48,152 --> 00:08:49,152
I mean,
199
00:08:48,492 --> 00:08:49,882
that that brings up a good question
though.
200
00:08:49,882 --> 00:08:52,114
It's like when like how do you decide,
201
00:08:52,114 --> 00:08:54,875
right? Like should I should I continue?
202
00:08:54,875 --> 00:08:56,856
Should I should I stop? You know,
203
00:08:56,856 --> 00:09:01,299
should I start? We've had publishers start
print publications and we're gonna talk
204
00:09:01,299 --> 00:09:04,706
about that. the con I think the content
type makes a difference.
205
00:09:04,706 --> 00:09:06,487
Is it, you know, is it is it a magazine?
206
00:09:06,487 --> 00:09:10,191
is it a how to kind of a publication?
207
00:09:10,191 --> 00:09:12,105
Is it news? and that's that
208
00:09:12,576 --> 00:09:15,017
That's different. How about an ad revenue
is another one.
209
00:09:15,017 --> 00:09:17,448
So we have a lot of magazine publishers,
210
00:09:17,448 --> 00:09:18,608
they have a lot of ad revenue.
211
00:09:18,608 --> 00:09:20,729
It makes sense for them to continue
running their magazine.
212
00:09:20,729 --> 00:09:23,370
Absolutely, positively. So if the ad
revenue is carrying you,
213
00:09:23,370 --> 00:09:25,642
it's not even a decision. You can stop
listening now.
214
00:09:25,642 --> 00:09:29,255
We have other things for you. But but
really that's and that's the thing that
215
00:09:29,255 --> 00:09:33,820
has been more challenging. but if your if
your print product suits
216
00:09:33,820 --> 00:09:37,661
the lifestyle of your reader and your ad
revenue supports it,
217
00:09:37,661 --> 00:09:39,622
then yeah, you you know, you keep going.
218
00:09:40,183 --> 00:09:44,204
and then reader attachment. It's like sort
of another thing that when
219
00:09:44,204 --> 00:09:46,806
I talk to publishers, I'd say generally
speaking,
220
00:09:46,806 --> 00:09:49,120
and there are exceptions, but the you
know,
221
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,414
the older the older readers tend to really
they're really attached
222
00:09:53,414 --> 00:09:56,736
to their print publication. and there's
there's definitely trends
223
00:09:56,736 --> 00:09:58,577
in the younger readers that you know,
224
00:09:58,577 --> 00:10:00,388
it's they they love the print.
225
00:10:00,388 --> 00:10:02,109
Like they it's it's a lifestyle thing.
226
00:10:02,109 --> 00:10:03,780
They it's cool, it's it's hip.
227
00:10:04,686 --> 00:10:10,200
to read in print. So so these are the
things that sort of help you determine,
228
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,016
you know, which way to go. And I'll kind
of jump in on this.
229
00:10:14,016 --> 00:10:15,397
And let me actually let me share my
screen.
230
00:10:15,397 --> 00:10:18,558
I'm gonna I'm gonna show you actually this
just a little bit of data real quick.
231
00:10:18,558 --> 00:10:21,668
we're gonna look at this here.
232
00:10:21,668 --> 00:10:28,232
This was ~ this is from Pew ~ Baekdal
republished this
233
00:10:28,232 --> 00:10:29,423
but this is from Pew Research.
234
00:10:29,423 --> 00:10:30,423
~
235
00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:33,321
originally, ~ thanks Thomas if you happen
to see this.
236
00:10:33,321 --> 00:10:37,864
this is advertising and circulation
revenue for US publishers.
237
00:10:37,864 --> 00:10:39,665
And you can see that in two thousand nine,
238
00:10:39,665 --> 00:10:44,487
~ things started going south. And two
thousand nine was our financial,
239
00:10:44,487 --> 00:10:48,630
you know, collapse of the US economy and
the global economy.
240
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:54,093
and we went from a peak, I think 2006
where print and circulation,
241
00:10:54,093 --> 00:10:57,875
you know, advertising circulation revenue
in print were really at its high.
242
00:10:57,875 --> 00:11:00,346
And it's just been kind of falling.
243
00:11:00,817 --> 00:11:05,778
you know, ever since, ~ as digital has
just become more and more common.
244
00:11:05,778 --> 00:11:07,979
And so you might look at this and say,
245
00:11:07,979 --> 00:11:09,919
like, my God, I gotta, you know,
246
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,820
I gotta stop here. But look at
circulation,
247
00:11:12,820 --> 00:11:16,900
you know, circulation ~ dollars are
actually kind of creeping up a little bit,
248
00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:20,892
which is interesting. ~ so ~ I just want
to get this out of the way.
249
00:11:20,892 --> 00:11:22,680
New York Times kind of a bellwether,
250
00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:24,243
a tech bellwether in the space.
251
00:11:24,243 --> 00:11:26,543
We talk about them ~ sometimes.
252
00:11:26,543 --> 00:11:28,454
They were they were
253
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:31,051
Really print focused originally as a
paper.
254
00:11:31,051 --> 00:11:34,173
They embraced digital back in twenty
eleven,
255
00:11:34,173 --> 00:11:35,744
I think they turned on their meter
paywall,
256
00:11:35,744 --> 00:11:40,786
which inspired us ~ to to ~ track what
they were doing.
257
00:11:40,786 --> 00:11:45,609
And today they ~ their print product,
258
00:11:45,609 --> 00:11:50,371
guess how many what percent of their
circulation is is print versus digital?
259
00:11:50,371 --> 00:11:51,371
Yeah, any guess?
260
00:11:52,704 --> 00:11:56,252
Boy, I would I would say the vast majority
is is digital at this point,
261
00:11:56,252 --> 00:11:59,589
but that's just because we sit in this
this fish tank together.
262
00:11:59,589 --> 00:12:01,593
~
263
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:02,280
Take a
264
00:12:01,602 --> 00:12:02,602
guess. Pick a number.
265
00:12:02,501 --> 00:12:05,830
~ I would say let's say thirty percent is
print.
266
00:12:06,439 --> 00:12:07,439
Four percent.
267
00:12:07,786 --> 00:12:08,786
my god.
268
00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:10,373
Yeah. Yeah, it's fallen that far.
269
00:12:10,373 --> 00:12:13,817
And that four percent is super loyal and
they're happy to pay the money
270
00:12:13,817 --> 00:12:15,468
and they pay a lot of money for it,
271
00:12:15,468 --> 00:12:17,770
which is part of the secret to keeping
print running.
272
00:12:17,770 --> 00:12:22,045
But yeah, this is this is it's it's pretty
pretty interesting.
273
00:12:22,087 --> 00:12:24,942
And and I would imagine if you go to the
New York Times and you wanna
274
00:12:24,942 --> 00:12:29,062
go subscribe that it's probably not like
it's probably difficult to find
275
00:12:29,062 --> 00:12:30,691
a print component
276
00:12:30,213 --> 00:12:31,311
No, no.
277
00:12:31,813 --> 00:12:33,265
as as part of that subscription.
278
00:12:33,265 --> 00:12:34,265
So
279
00:12:33,521 --> 00:12:36,113
Yeah, that's exactly right. They're really
the you yeah,
280
00:12:36,113 --> 00:12:37,184
you go there and try to subscribe,
281
00:12:37,184 --> 00:12:39,526
they're gonna sell sell you a digital
trial,
282
00:12:39,526 --> 00:12:44,390
essentially. but you know, of of all the
research that I did,
283
00:12:44,390 --> 00:12:48,533
I didn't crow come across any data that
suggested that print is fine finding
284
00:12:48,594 --> 00:12:51,696
new buyers. It's serving old buyers,
285
00:12:51,696 --> 00:12:54,198
right? Old subscribers. ~
286
00:12:51,922 --> 00:12:53,661
Yeah. Yeah.
287
00:12:54,358 --> 00:12:59,322
now, like I said before, we have some
publishers that did start a print product,
288
00:12:59,322 --> 00:13:00,583
and we'll talk about that in a minute.
289
00:13:00,583 --> 00:13:02,505
and
290
00:13:02,883 --> 00:13:04,917
they're obviously looking for new buyers.
291
00:13:04,917 --> 00:13:07,551
But the overall trend is, you know,
292
00:13:07,551 --> 00:13:10,166
serving the existing the existing base,
293
00:13:10,166 --> 00:13:11,909
which is which is pretty pretty
interesting.
294
00:13:10,684 --> 00:13:11,684
Yeah.
295
00:13:11,964 --> 00:13:15,875
And that also kind of tracks too with
legacy publishers who have a print product
296
00:13:15,875 --> 00:13:18,786
who go online and offer their e edition,
297
00:13:18,786 --> 00:13:21,117
oftentimes their e edition, at least in
the beginning,
298
00:13:21,117 --> 00:13:23,778
will be one of their biggest pages,
299
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:24,645
Right. Right.
300
00:13:23,778 --> 00:13:24,778
right?
301
00:13:25,048 --> 00:13:27,129
Has the highest traffic out of everything
else.
302
00:13:27,129 --> 00:13:28,129
That does
303
00:13:27,333 --> 00:13:28,333
Yeah.
304
00:13:27,989 --> 00:13:33,070
that does shift over time, but in the
beginning that tends to be where people
go,
305
00:13:33,070 --> 00:13:36,077
to to look. So yeah.
306
00:13:34,981 --> 00:13:36,552
I agree. I think the e-edition
307
00:13:36,552 --> 00:13:40,135
is something you should lock down and
makes it's part of your your
308
00:13:40,135 --> 00:13:44,508
~ digital subscription plan and ~ not
print.
309
00:13:44,508 --> 00:13:45,945
Doesn't it's not part of the print.
310
00:13:45,945 --> 00:13:50,823
It and you'll find that the you know the
the older readers who like
311
00:13:50,823 --> 00:13:55,976
the print format will continue to read
this very difficult to navigate
312
00:13:56,577 --> 00:14:02,121
e edition just because it looks like a
newspaper or looks like a magazine and
313
00:14:02,439 --> 00:14:04,099
They have the time to sit and kind of,
314
00:14:04,099 --> 00:14:06,880
know, and they get used to the controls
and and they get through it.
315
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,151
And it's amazing to me. But that's that's
what's happening.
316
00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:10,658
Yeah. Yeah.
317
00:14:11,872 --> 00:14:13,762
okay, let me see. So on the other,
318
00:14:13,762 --> 00:14:15,493
okay, so on the other end of the spectrum,
319
00:14:15,493 --> 00:14:19,054
on the digital side, if you look at the
Nordic countries,
320
00:14:19,054 --> 00:14:24,195
~ like Sweden, Sweden is is close to 100%
digital
321
00:14:24,195 --> 00:14:28,596
in terms of subscription, ~ like news
subscription sales.
322
00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:30,497
They they have really
323
00:14:31,193 --> 00:14:34,246
migrated out of print very, very quickly.
324
00:14:34,246 --> 00:14:36,878
~ Norway is kind of in a similar boat.
325
00:14:36,878 --> 00:14:42,552
and then some of the and I don't know why
is sort of the northern European,
326
00:14:42,552 --> 00:14:47,466
but even the UK, you know, generally
embrace digital subscriptions pretty early
327
00:14:47,486 --> 00:14:51,509
on ~ in in the ~ in the paywall space,
328
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:53,451
which which I find fascinating.
329
00:14:53,451 --> 00:14:55,813
~
330
00:14:53,905 --> 00:14:54,905
Yeah.
331
00:14:55,813 --> 00:15:00,046
okay so all right, so let's talk a little
bit about ~ like like what
332
00:15:00,046 --> 00:15:01,046
are the what are the
333
00:15:00,904 --> 00:15:03,215
questions to help you make the decision.
334
00:15:03,215 --> 00:15:09,798
~ I hinted towards ~ magazine publishers
versus news publishers.
335
00:15:09,798 --> 00:15:12,860
So if if you're in sort of the design
space,
336
00:15:12,860 --> 00:15:14,321
right? Like you're a magazine,
337
00:15:14,321 --> 00:15:17,642
you have a niche and you're you're in sort
of heavy design mode,
338
00:15:17,642 --> 00:15:20,444
then the print, yes, can be the product.
339
00:15:20,444 --> 00:15:24,946
Like it's and it's it's a it's actually a
different product because
340
00:15:25,106 --> 00:15:28,148
in the news world, it's like we read news
on our phones,
341
00:15:28,148 --> 00:15:29,338
we we
342
00:15:30,641 --> 00:15:33,753
We might just listen to podcast ~ news
while we're driving.
343
00:15:33,753 --> 00:15:36,714
~ we're we're here to get intel on stuff.
344
00:15:36,714 --> 00:15:39,286
It's kind of transactional. Like we want
to know what's going on,
345
00:15:39,286 --> 00:15:40,646
what are the solutions out there?
346
00:15:40,646 --> 00:15:43,524
Magazine, like a design driven magazine,
347
00:15:43,524 --> 00:15:45,039
it's a very different experience,
348
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,671
right? Like you're you're sitting in in a
in a comfortable chair or at
349
00:15:48,671 --> 00:15:52,303
the table in a in a relaxed way and you're
paging through.
350
00:15:52,303 --> 00:15:58,566
So it's, you know, we call that a lean
back behavior versus ~ the the news lean
351
00:15:58,566 --> 00:15:59,717
in behavior.
352
00:16:00,437 --> 00:16:02,758
~ and that in that case, yeah,
353
00:16:02,758 --> 00:16:04,858
the magazine really is the product.
354
00:16:04,858 --> 00:16:08,179
~ so like the fisherman magazine,
355
00:16:08,179 --> 00:16:10,250
you know, you're you're a fishing
enthusiast.
356
00:16:10,250 --> 00:16:12,490
Enthusiast magazines are are big today,
357
00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:15,651
and people get the magazine and it's fun
to read.
358
00:16:15,651 --> 00:16:18,802
~ any really any kind of enthusiast.
359
00:16:18,802 --> 00:16:25,534
the other thing that I keep hearing and I
think is really valid is AI protection,
360
00:16:25,534 --> 00:16:28,337
right? So if you're printing ~
361
00:16:28,837 --> 00:16:31,998
your your news and you're printing a
magazine,
362
00:16:31,998 --> 00:16:37,289
yeah, it's it's it's you're obviously
protecting the that experience
363
00:16:37,289 --> 00:16:38,920
you cannot replicate through AI.
364
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,031
~ and there's a trust factor too that has
value,
365
00:16:43,031 --> 00:16:46,569
I think, but trust comes through the
content and the,
366
00:16:46,569 --> 00:16:50,243
you know, I think the the that kind of
behavior from the publisher.
367
00:16:50,243 --> 00:16:52,934
But yeah, sure, if you're printing a
newspaper,
368
00:16:52,934 --> 00:16:54,184
if you're printing a magazine,
369
00:16:54,184 --> 00:16:58,285
the trust ~ tends to skew pretty high.
370
00:16:59,142 --> 00:17:04,767
I'd say. So okay. The next one is kind of
in the ~ we talked about the news space,
371
00:17:04,767 --> 00:17:09,061
which is actually cheapest to keep in
print,
372
00:17:09,061 --> 00:17:11,013
right? But easiest to transition.
373
00:17:11,013 --> 00:17:13,105
Since you're not really dealing with
design,
374
00:17:13,105 --> 00:17:17,279
you can kind of get out of news and it's
we'll talk about how to.
375
00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:19,141
But then there's sort of this other space,
376
00:17:19,141 --> 00:17:24,156
the how to space. ~ so we had
377
00:17:24,302 --> 00:17:25,593
We should talk about track and field a
little bit.
378
00:17:25,593 --> 00:17:30,605
Let's talk about ~ so brew brew your own
and winemaker.
379
00:17:30,605 --> 00:17:33,556
They are in the how to, how to,
380
00:17:33,556 --> 00:17:35,146
how to make beer, how to make wine.
381
00:17:35,146 --> 00:17:39,418
And they a year ago, they we did a
separate podcast just on this,
382
00:17:39,418 --> 00:17:43,630
but a year ago they went ~ they just went
cold turkey on print.
383
00:17:43,630 --> 00:17:47,261
~ and they you know they messaged their
readers appropriately.
384
00:17:47,261 --> 00:17:53,054
~ they lost ~ a a percentage of their
readership,
385
00:17:53,054 --> 00:17:54,054
but it wasn't a
386
00:17:53,944 --> 00:17:57,837
calamity and they have been able to
absolutely build back in a year.
387
00:17:57,837 --> 00:18:04,523
and we'll talk about what makes what what
make made that work
388
00:18:04,523 --> 00:18:07,565
~ for them. But that, you know,
389
00:18:07,565 --> 00:18:09,367
if you think about it, yeah, it was a
magazine.
390
00:18:09,367 --> 00:18:12,309
~ but is it design related? It's like how
to,
391
00:18:12,309 --> 00:18:15,802
you know, is it like it's not like a
lifestyle design magazine.
392
00:18:15,802 --> 00:18:17,524
It's like you're it's kind of nuts and
bolts.
393
00:18:17,524 --> 00:18:18,815
It's like, okay, how do I do this?
394
00:18:18,815 --> 00:18:20,336
How do I make I need this recipe,
395
00:18:20,336 --> 00:18:22,458
I need, you know, like I need guidance.
396
00:18:22,860 --> 00:18:24,351
I probably need video content too,
397
00:18:24,351 --> 00:18:26,352
which is tough to do in print.
398
00:18:26,352 --> 00:18:30,515
so that was two how-tos.
399
00:18:30,515 --> 00:18:34,397
I need to talk a little bit about track
and field.
400
00:18:34,397 --> 00:18:37,624
This was super interesting. ~ this
happened a few years ago.
401
00:18:37,624 --> 00:18:44,203
We were onboarding them and they decided
in the middle
402
00:18:44,203 --> 00:18:48,395
of the onboard ~ to stop printing their
magazine.
403
00:18:48,395 --> 00:18:49,496
~ and
404
00:18:50,406 --> 00:18:52,687
We you know, we were like, okay.
405
00:18:52,687 --> 00:18:57,729
~ and so the bottom line is they went nine
months without a print product.
406
00:18:57,729 --> 00:19:02,181
And it's news. It's like they're reporting
on track and field news events.
407
00:19:02,181 --> 00:19:04,122
It's not design, it really is news.
408
00:19:04,122 --> 00:19:05,673
That's why it's called track and field
news.
409
00:19:05,673 --> 00:19:12,005
But the their their readers were skewed
older and they sent the best.
410
00:19:12,005 --> 00:19:14,917
I I they they were sharing their email
campaigns with us and they were,
411
00:19:14,917 --> 00:19:16,958
you know, it's like the voice of the was
like,
412
00:19:16,958 --> 00:19:17,958
Hey, we know you love.
413
00:19:18,009 --> 00:19:20,890
print and we but we we need to survive as
a publication.
414
00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:22,480
All they they said all the right things.
415
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,541
We need your support and all that.
416
00:19:24,541 --> 00:19:29,190
But the bottom line is is half their ~
demographic just didn't want
417
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:32,943
to log into anything. They were they were
sort of in that stage where it was like,
418
00:19:32,943 --> 00:19:36,925
Yeah, we're gonna we're not gonna we just
can't subscribe because I can't
419
00:19:37,065 --> 00:19:38,785
I can't be bothered to log into something.
420
00:19:38,785 --> 00:19:41,346
We had one there was one, I think it was a
doctor.
421
00:19:42,134 --> 00:19:46,655
He loved the magazine so much he hired
FedEx to print out every single digital
issue
422
00:19:46,655 --> 00:19:49,656
and ship it to the him every month at a
cost of like,
423
00:19:49,656 --> 00:19:52,637
you know, a hundred whatever dollars per
month.
424
00:19:52,637 --> 00:19:56,178
Cause he just loved the the the print
edition so much.
425
00:19:56,178 --> 00:19:58,679
Yeah. Yeah. It was it was worth it to him.
426
00:19:56,266 --> 00:19:59,091
my goodness. Hmm.
427
00:19:58,679 --> 00:19:59,679
And
428
00:19:59,339 --> 00:20:03,160
so okay, so what happened after nine
months?
429
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,552
they figured out that people weren't
logging in and they're like,
430
00:20:07,552 --> 00:20:08,552
okay, well.
431
00:20:09,438 --> 00:20:11,199
Let's bring back the print product,
432
00:20:11,199 --> 00:20:13,780
but let's do it differently. They so now
they're on print on demand,
433
00:20:13,780 --> 00:20:16,781
right? And their previous, no,
434
00:20:16,781 --> 00:20:18,862
this is public information if you look
around,
435
00:20:18,862 --> 00:20:24,034
but if their previous ~ like original ~
pricing for their magazine was like
436
00:20:24,034 --> 00:20:26,895
$29 a year, which was back in the day,
437
00:20:26,895 --> 00:20:28,956
that was a really typical price point.
438
00:20:28,956 --> 00:20:32,237
And then your ads carried your your
magazine.
439
00:20:32,237 --> 00:20:38,830
if you look now, I guess I can go look
now.
440
00:20:39,242 --> 00:20:42,291
I can see that their top product is a
hundred and thirty eight dollars.
441
00:20:42,291 --> 00:20:46,582
So, you know, they increased their they
increased their pricing.
442
00:20:46,582 --> 00:20:47,582
~
443
00:20:47,168 --> 00:20:49,249
you know, four X, whatever, ~ a lot.
444
00:20:49,249 --> 00:20:54,333
Five X almost. ~ and that's that's another
way to do it is decide to keep
445
00:20:54,333 --> 00:21:00,307
the print product for that, for those
readers who who just love the format
446
00:21:00,307 --> 00:21:01,928
so much and you know who you are,
447
00:21:01,928 --> 00:21:03,199
I think if you're hearing this.
448
00:21:03,199 --> 00:21:07,342
~ and then j but raise your pri make sure
you're it's a profit center.
449
00:21:07,342 --> 00:21:10,464
Like you have to make money. And their
volume,
450
00:21:10,464 --> 00:21:14,207
their print volume is is certainly quite a
bit lower than it was back in the day.
451
00:21:14,207 --> 00:21:16,088
But you know, we look at their
452
00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:20,177
We look at their digital and print and
digital subscriptions come through
453
00:21:20,177 --> 00:21:23,600
in the back end and you know, it's every
day,
454
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,462
it's substantial. Like they they figured
it out,
455
00:21:26,462 --> 00:21:29,475
right? and it and it's working.
456
00:21:29,475 --> 00:21:34,730
So in that case where your readers are
really are need the print product,
457
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:36,492
that that's a good solution.
458
00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:43,325
So they're they're those print editions
are on demand and being fulfilled
459
00:21:43,325 --> 00:21:46,487
by a like a company somewhere that's so as
you order
460
00:21:44,054 --> 00:21:45,436
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
461
00:21:46,487 --> 00:21:50,851
it you get a print copy made for you and
it's sent to your house and that
462
00:21:50,851 --> 00:21:55,614
way you don't have a stack of I guess
print editions to to mail out.
463
00:21:52,758 --> 00:21:56,049
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
464
00:21:56,049 --> 00:21:57,049
Yep.
465
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,550
That's how they that's how they solved
that problem.
466
00:21:58,550 --> 00:22:01,051
Yeah. They didn't want to deal with
inventory.
467
00:22:01,051 --> 00:22:02,922
They just just wanted to send it out.
468
00:22:02,922 --> 00:22:05,033
And yeah, it was more it's more money to
do it that way,
469
00:22:05,033 --> 00:22:07,124
for sure. But but
470
00:22:05,251 --> 00:22:07,092
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
471
00:22:07,124 --> 00:22:09,515
the the price increase, you know,
472
00:22:09,515 --> 00:22:13,827
took care of that. that's a that's a
pretty neat one.
473
00:22:13,827 --> 00:22:16,978
~ let me just tell another story and we'll
get into the how to's.
474
00:22:16,978 --> 00:22:21,080
~ you know these guys. So my villager is
475
00:22:22,238 --> 00:22:27,830
Weekly sh I should say was a weekly
newspaper in Saint Paul.
476
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:34,552
and there ~ they were running about thirty
thousand
477
00:22:34,952 --> 00:22:40,533
print copies freely distributed every week
through retail stores in Saint Paul.
478
00:22:40,533 --> 00:22:46,295
And they decided that they wanted to go to
digital subscriptions.
479
00:22:46,295 --> 00:22:48,413
They wanted to not stop printing.
480
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:52,531
But start charging for print and charging
for digital subscriptions.
481
00:22:52,531 --> 00:22:57,003
I'd say this is probably one of the big
reverse,
482
00:22:57,003 --> 00:23:01,155
big, big, biggest changes I've seen a
publisher do when,
483
00:23:01,155 --> 00:23:03,496
you know, their their philosophy was
everything is free.
484
00:23:03,496 --> 00:23:07,807
Read the ads, and the ad revenue,
485
00:23:07,807 --> 00:23:09,368
you know, was dropping. And they were
like,
486
00:23:09,368 --> 00:23:15,900
wait a second, we need to ~ we need to
lean in on our content and charge for
access.
487
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:17,351
And it and it worked.
488
00:23:17,575 --> 00:23:21,567
They were, you know, they were able to
essentially ~ again,
489
00:23:21,567 --> 00:23:23,858
communication was everything with their
audience saying,
490
00:23:23,858 --> 00:23:25,439
Look, we need in order to survive,
491
00:23:25,439 --> 00:23:28,011
we need your support. We're gonna create
more great content,
492
00:23:28,011 --> 00:23:29,191
we're gonna do all these great things,
493
00:23:29,191 --> 00:23:30,872
but we're gonna charge a subscription.
494
00:23:30,872 --> 00:23:33,274
And all of a sudden, look again,
495
00:23:33,274 --> 00:23:35,565
looking at the numbers on the back end,
496
00:23:35,565 --> 00:23:37,686
it's like, wow, people were just like,
497
00:23:37,686 --> 00:23:43,009
Take my money, you know. ~ and so now I
think now they're a twice
498
00:23:43,009 --> 00:23:46,701
a month ~ paid ~
499
00:23:47,145 --> 00:23:51,127
print publication. And then of course they
have digital subscriptions running,
500
00:23:51,127 --> 00:23:53,007
which is carrying carrying the ball for
them.
501
00:23:53,007 --> 00:23:58,430
~ really, really interesting thing.
502
00:23:58,430 --> 00:24:00,000
All right, what else we got? I got one
more.
503
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,662
Okay, one more for you. This is in the
creation,
504
00:24:02,662 --> 00:24:05,613
~ like should you should you start a pr a
print publication?
505
00:24:05,613 --> 00:24:09,765
~ and yeah, we have ~ let's see,
506
00:24:09,765 --> 00:24:14,827
catch magazine, they started up ~ with the
print publication that was maybe
507
00:24:14,827 --> 00:24:15,827
a year ago.
508
00:24:15,995 --> 00:24:17,265
And they're they're doing okay.
509
00:24:17,265 --> 00:24:19,526
you know, really fancy fly fishing,
510
00:24:19,526 --> 00:24:22,568
like, you know, money, advertising,
511
00:24:22,568 --> 00:24:25,369
you know, it's enthusiast hobby
publication.
512
00:24:25,369 --> 00:24:29,971
~ but small boats, what they did is they
were never print.
513
00:24:29,971 --> 00:24:33,472
They were always digital. They were pub
publishing digital issues.
514
00:24:33,472 --> 00:24:36,343
They took their content and made it into a
coffee table book.
515
00:24:36,343 --> 00:24:38,304
So they looked at their analytics and they
said,
516
00:24:38,304 --> 00:24:41,235
Hey, well, let's see, what are our popular
articles for the year?
517
00:24:41,235 --> 00:24:45,357
One of the most popular, put together a c
~ a Christmas
518
00:24:45,693 --> 00:24:50,217
You know, addition a coffee table book and
it's old and it did really well for them.
519
00:24:50,217 --> 00:24:51,217
Yeah.
520
00:24:50,903 --> 00:24:51,903
Interesting.
521
00:24:51,459 --> 00:24:55,302
Yeah. So if you're in a especially they're
in a passion hobby,
522
00:24:55,302 --> 00:24:57,804
this is all about how to build small
wooden boats.
523
00:24:57,804 --> 00:25:01,228
And ~ you can imagine,
524
00:25:01,228 --> 00:25:03,750
you know, the folks in this have time and
money,
525
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:09,516
and so buying a nice coffee table book is
~ is probably a good move for them.
526
00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:10,897
Okay.
527
00:25:09,901 --> 00:25:10,912
Yeah, yeah, it's funny
528
00:25:11,032 --> 00:25:12,032
it's funny you mentioned that.
529
00:25:12,012 --> 00:25:18,417
We we we occasionally see ~ news
publishers start
530
00:25:18,457 --> 00:25:22,719
publications in news deserts throughout
the country and
531
00:25:22,257 --> 00:25:23,257
Mm.
532
00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:26,722
they start a print side of their ~
533
00:25:26,967 --> 00:25:27,967
interesting.
534
00:25:27,603 --> 00:25:30,044
Yeah, and it's you know, at first you're
like,
535
00:25:29,723 --> 00:25:31,467
Why? Why? Yeah, why?
536
00:25:30,044 --> 00:25:32,226
Well, why would you do that? I it's
537
00:25:32,306 --> 00:25:34,627
~ it's to qualify for public notice.
538
00:25:35,273 --> 00:25:39,124
~ I gotcha. I gotcha.
539
00:25:38,976 --> 00:25:42,047
And in some cases it makes sense if you
think about it.
540
00:25:39,325 --> 00:25:40,325
Okay.
541
00:25:42,648 --> 00:25:44,118
if you're doing a weekly publication,
542
00:25:44,118 --> 00:25:45,929
you've got fifty two, you know,
543
00:25:45,929 --> 00:25:50,671
newspapers that you need to create each
year and ~
544
00:25:48,541 --> 00:25:50,172
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
545
00:25:51,412 --> 00:25:54,623
if the numbers work out and there's no one
else handling public notice
546
00:25:54,623 --> 00:25:57,945
in in your district, then you're the you
will be the one they come to
547
00:25:57,945 --> 00:26:01,516
and ~ if you're starting fresh and you
don't have the overhead,
548
00:26:01,516 --> 00:26:02,897
then I think it can work.
549
00:26:02,237 --> 00:26:03,755
Mm. Mm.
550
00:26:04,358 --> 00:26:05,358
but
551
00:26:05,016 --> 00:26:08,043
But yeah, it's it happens. We see it from
from time to time.
552
00:26:07,506 --> 00:26:09,050
Interesting. Interesting.
553
00:26:08,043 --> 00:26:09,279
Like even recently, yeah.
554
00:26:09,792 --> 00:26:12,199
Can you can you create a public notice
newspaper?
555
00:26:12,199 --> 00:26:14,946
That's free?
556
00:26:13,794 --> 00:26:15,805
There the states the states
557
00:26:15,805 --> 00:26:22,119
are are are really like the statutes are
very intense around like what qualifies
558
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,021
you as a newspaper and
559
00:26:22,937 --> 00:26:24,093
Mm. Mm.
560
00:26:24,301 --> 00:26:28,063
like you have to jump through all of these
different hoops and every single state
561
00:26:28,163 --> 00:26:29,464
has different requirements.
562
00:26:29,766 --> 00:26:30,766
Okay.
563
00:26:30,345 --> 00:26:34,508
But but yeah, it's it's not not easy ~ to
qualify in most cases.
564
00:26:35,581 --> 00:26:37,107
Yeah, that makes sense. Interesting.
565
00:26:37,107 --> 00:26:40,220
That sounds like a big lift. ~ yeah.
566
00:26:38,984 --> 00:26:40,735
It's a lot. It's a big investment
567
00:26:40,735 --> 00:26:43,475
of time, ~ and also money for you know,
568
00:26:43,475 --> 00:26:45,587
in this particular publisher's case,
569
00:26:45,587 --> 00:26:46,587
you gotta do it for
570
00:26:46,003 --> 00:26:47,003
Right.
571
00:26:46,378 --> 00:26:51,731
a whole year before you qualify for that
notice flow of income.
572
00:26:51,731 --> 00:26:53,892
So anyway.
573
00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:54,011
Interesting. ~
574
00:26:54,371 --> 00:26:59,091
I'm gonna okay, I wanna shift to ~ I wanna
shift into like what do you do?
575
00:26:59,091 --> 00:27:01,032
Like how what are what are good ways to
transition?
576
00:27:01,032 --> 00:27:04,653
What what are the things we've seen our
publishers do that have helped
577
00:27:04,894 --> 00:27:10,306
the transition? And the to no surprise to
you before we get into
578
00:27:10,306 --> 00:27:13,377
the details of of digital and print,
579
00:27:13,377 --> 00:27:17,338
the number one thing to do is to build
your email list.
580
00:27:17,338 --> 00:27:18,708
I mean your
581
00:27:20,301 --> 00:27:24,174
When you when you're in digital or when
you're when you're if if you have
582
00:27:24,174 --> 00:27:26,516
to make the decision to drop print and
it's a big decision,
583
00:27:26,516 --> 00:27:30,659
it's a big hit, ~ newsletter becomes the
new product,
584
00:27:30,659 --> 00:27:32,461
right? You may have a newsletter,
585
00:27:32,461 --> 00:27:36,044
but you haven't really spent time making
it incredibly awesome,
586
00:27:36,044 --> 00:27:42,980
right? And the newsletter is the is the
engine that drives traffic back
587
00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:44,971
to your site. So the bigger your your
list,
588
00:27:44,971 --> 00:27:46,983
the more traffic you get back to the site,
589
00:27:46,983 --> 00:27:49,485
more chances you have for digital
upgrades.
590
00:27:50,075 --> 00:27:52,257
And the newsletter becomes the product.
591
00:27:52,257 --> 00:27:56,350
you have in paid subscriptions,
592
00:27:56,350 --> 00:27:58,992
you have two newsletters too. You have a
free newsletter and a paid newsletter,
593
00:27:58,992 --> 00:28:00,674
and they both offer opportunities.
594
00:28:00,674 --> 00:28:03,146
So you essentially you're gonna spend some
time,
595
00:28:03,146 --> 00:28:06,489
mostly time, maybe a little bit of money,
596
00:28:06,489 --> 00:28:11,343
but mostly time getting your newsletter or
product right because it's
597
00:28:11,343 --> 00:28:15,616
the it's the number one thing that lands
in people's inboxes every week,
598
00:28:15,616 --> 00:28:18,358
over and over and over and over again.
599
00:28:18,358 --> 00:28:19,358
You can't
600
00:28:19,563 --> 00:28:21,984
You know, it's hard to much harder to do
that with print.
601
00:28:21,984 --> 00:28:24,826
So the digital space gives you that
opportunity.
602
00:28:24,826 --> 00:28:29,786
Now, ~ just to get into the details a
little bit,
603
00:28:29,786 --> 00:28:33,621
I mean the the the number thing number one
thing you gotta do is stop
604
00:28:33,621 --> 00:28:38,103
the n the pop-up nonsense on your website
where you're asking people to
605
00:28:38,103 --> 00:28:40,735
opt in or using opt-in monster or
something like that,
606
00:28:40,735 --> 00:28:47,308
and start up a registration wall which
requires people to drop in their news
their
607
00:28:47,308 --> 00:28:48,359
email into
608
00:28:49,172 --> 00:28:54,293
here to get access. And so you you need to
build a flywheel here.
609
00:28:54,293 --> 00:28:57,894
We call this the publisher flywheel and it
starts with the email address.
610
00:28:57,894 --> 00:28:59,975
So essentially you have great content,
611
00:28:59,975 --> 00:29:02,225
your it's your superpower, you have an
audience,
612
00:29:02,225 --> 00:29:04,716
that's your superpower. Now you gotta
leverage that,
613
00:29:04,716 --> 00:29:08,267
right? And so let's say after one article
you say,
614
00:29:08,267 --> 00:29:11,847
look, drop off your email address and
you'll get the next article or
615
00:29:11,847 --> 00:29:14,438
two or whatever you decide, however
generous you want to be.
616
00:29:14,438 --> 00:29:18,299
Now you're essentially and we we just we
we
617
00:29:18,969 --> 00:29:21,630
Just released the publisher's ~ AI
survival guide.
618
00:29:21,630 --> 00:29:25,301
Just go to leakypaywall.com and you'll see
it pop up for you.
619
00:29:25,301 --> 00:29:28,152
At least by the time this podcast comes
out,
620
00:29:28,152 --> 00:29:34,433
it'll pop up. ~ and essentially what we
found looking across hundreds
621
00:29:34,433 --> 00:29:39,365
of publishers is that if you put something
like this registration wall in place,
622
00:29:39,365 --> 00:29:45,226
your email signups are about 2x to 7x
greater than
623
00:29:45,226 --> 00:29:48,067
a news letter opt-in.
624
00:29:48,397 --> 00:29:52,210
Essentially. So newsletter opt-ins get
like point nine percent
625
00:29:52,210 --> 00:29:56,064
of traffic and registration wall.
626
00:29:56,064 --> 00:30:02,850
This registration wall ~ gains about I
think the number was 3.2 to 6.7% were
627
00:30:02,850 --> 00:30:07,964
the actual numbers. ~ that's a that's
that's a that's times ~ sorry,
628
00:30:07,964 --> 00:30:14,950
X, not percent, X. So average four or five
times more email addresses than
629
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:15,950
an opt-in.
630
00:30:16,003 --> 00:30:17,533
This is how you blow up your email list.
631
00:30:17,533 --> 00:30:18,904
And you're getting people to register.
632
00:30:18,904 --> 00:30:20,164
They get a password after this.
633
00:30:20,164 --> 00:30:22,945
And in our case, people can log in through
this as well.
634
00:30:22,945 --> 00:30:26,466
This works like crazy. It's the start of
the flywheel.
635
00:30:26,466 --> 00:30:29,887
So important. I don't care what you're
doing.
636
00:30:29,887 --> 00:30:31,497
This is really the key. But if you're
going,
637
00:30:31,497 --> 00:30:34,228
if you're dropping print or you're cutting
down on print,
638
00:30:34,228 --> 00:30:36,949
you you you this is the way for you to
compensate.
639
00:30:36,949 --> 00:30:40,240
Really produce a kick-ass free newsletter,
640
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,290
which is all about, you know, selling the
upgrade message,
641
00:30:42,290 --> 00:30:44,441
and then the paid newsletter, which which
642
00:30:44,601 --> 00:30:46,312
just takes care of your paid readers.
643
00:30:46,312 --> 00:30:48,743
Yeah, you could look at premium content.
644
00:30:48,743 --> 00:30:51,505
You could look at ~ early delivery.
645
00:30:51,505 --> 00:30:53,256
You can you can do a lot of things.
646
00:30:53,256 --> 00:30:56,778
All this you can automate as especially ~
well.
647
00:30:56,778 --> 00:31:00,190
And ~ okay.
648
00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:01,681
Should I get off my soapbox now?
649
00:31:01,681 --> 00:31:06,304
~ so
650
00:31:07,265 --> 00:31:09,506
all right agreed Tyler what do think?
651
00:31:09,506 --> 00:31:11,137
Yep.
652
00:31:09,771 --> 00:31:10,771
Yeah, absolutely.
653
00:31:11,303 --> 00:31:17,221
I was a publisher last week had a a story
that kinda went viral in the town.
654
00:31:17,221 --> 00:31:21,117
It was a a scandal with the the the local
government or something.
655
00:31:21,117 --> 00:31:25,643
And we we noticed a spike in their ~ like
free sign ups,
656
00:31:25,643 --> 00:31:26,643
you know, and
657
00:31:26,295 --> 00:31:27,295
Mm-hmm.
658
00:31:27,319 --> 00:31:31,384
You know, they built like two hundred
extra people on their list through that
story,
659
00:31:31,384 --> 00:31:33,827
right? Not through a sidebar widget that
they all want
660
00:31:31,695 --> 00:31:32,695
Just for one.
661
00:31:33,827 --> 00:31:36,541
to have on their websites. Most publishers
want us to add that,
662
00:31:36,541 --> 00:31:37,541
but through
663
00:31:36,847 --> 00:31:37,847
Yeah.
664
00:31:37,432 --> 00:31:39,535
the free registration, you know,
665
00:31:39,535 --> 00:31:42,388
~ system. So
666
00:31:43,454 --> 00:31:46,517
It works. And then now all of these people
are on the newsletter,
667
00:31:46,517 --> 00:31:49,910
right? And so now they're gonna start
seeing content on a weekly basis,
668
00:31:49,910 --> 00:31:52,713
a daily basis, and you know, hopefully at
some point
669
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:52,820
Exactly.
670
00:31:52,713 --> 00:31:54,344
we'll be able to convert them over to
paid.
671
00:31:54,344 --> 00:31:57,867
So so yeah, this this works. And and if
you didn't have that up and
672
00:31:57,867 --> 00:32:01,080
you had this viral story, you just had a
bunch of eyeballs that are fleeting,
673
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,283
right? Maybe you got twenty thousand page
views,
674
00:32:04,283 --> 00:32:05,283
but
675
00:32:05,054 --> 00:32:08,368
Zero people signed up for anything because
it was free.
676
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:09,187
Right. Right.
677
00:32:08,368 --> 00:32:09,889
No one's signing
678
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:13,733
up for a widget on the sidebar for your
newsletter when the content is free.
679
00:32:13,733 --> 00:32:14,733
That's
680
00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:15,029
Right.
681
00:32:14,424 --> 00:32:15,424
that's the point.
682
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:18,181
Yep. Yeah. And if you want a a ninja
tactic,
683
00:32:18,181 --> 00:32:19,781
if you have a story that's blowing up,
684
00:32:19,781 --> 00:32:23,693
~ just lock it down. Make people register
to read it.
685
00:32:23,693 --> 00:32:25,284
It's still free, but you get their email.
686
00:32:25,284 --> 00:32:29,736
And ~ we have a new dynamic paywall
function that that does that automatically
687
00:32:29,736 --> 00:32:32,046
for you if you're interested. Okay.
688
00:32:32,046 --> 00:32:34,027
~ just to finish the flywheel,
689
00:32:34,027 --> 00:32:36,568
that big that big list that's sending the
traffic back,
690
00:32:36,568 --> 00:32:39,740
remember when you do this, they're not
just email addresses,
691
00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,270
they're actually logged into your site.
692
00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:42,701
So that you're tracking
693
00:32:43,193 --> 00:32:45,664
their behavior throughout all the content.
694
00:32:45,664 --> 00:32:48,576
And then your insights should be
essentially telling you,
695
00:32:48,576 --> 00:32:51,386
hey, which of these free people are highly
engaged?
696
00:32:51,386 --> 00:32:54,569
And then you can target and then you can
target them and send them offers.
697
00:32:54,569 --> 00:32:56,080
And that's what our publishers do.
698
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,731
And it works like crazy. Okay.
699
00:32:57,731 --> 00:33:01,613
Sales pitch over. ~ okay so flipbooks.
700
00:33:01,613 --> 00:33:04,534
Let's talk a little bit about flipbooks
because that's something that
701
00:33:04,534 --> 00:33:08,717
~ print publishers ~ tend to embrace on
the web.
702
00:33:08,717 --> 00:33:12,563
We talked about it earlier and
703
00:33:13,048 --> 00:33:18,751
Yeah, it's easy to do. You take a PDF ~
and you upload it into ~ your your
Flipbook
704
00:33:18,751 --> 00:33:21,622
Maker. ~ we recommend real three D for
WordPress,
705
00:33:21,622 --> 00:33:25,624
real three D flipbook. ~ you can and you
can kind of control everything.
706
00:33:25,624 --> 00:33:29,276
It's cheap and and ~ and then just and
lock it down.
707
00:33:29,276 --> 00:33:33,638
And it becomes it becomes a perk for all
readers,
708
00:33:33,638 --> 00:33:36,500
really. Even if you're not like a print
reader,
709
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:40,442
sometimes it's fun just to kind of look at
what a print edition looks like.
710
00:33:40,442 --> 00:33:42,303
we
711
00:33:43,565 --> 00:33:45,687
With some crowds, it kinda it depends,
712
00:33:45,687 --> 00:33:47,979
but with some crowds, like I mentioned
before,
713
00:33:47,979 --> 00:33:50,190
the flip book is really the thing they're
paying for,
714
00:33:50,190 --> 00:33:51,341
right? You have to lock it down.
715
00:33:51,341 --> 00:33:55,900
and that that they they don't read
anything else because they're older
716
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:57,867
and they're just used to the format or
whatever.
717
00:33:57,867 --> 00:34:03,021
so ~ it's tough on mobile.
718
00:34:03,021 --> 00:34:05,693
Think of just remember, like reading a
flipbook on a phone,
719
00:34:05,693 --> 00:34:08,806
not fun. Yeah,
720
00:34:08,806 --> 00:34:12,018
desktop, fine, iPad, fine, phone,
721
00:34:12,018 --> 00:34:13,018
not so good.
722
00:34:13,271 --> 00:34:16,872
So you're you're you it's gotta be just
sort of a perk,
723
00:34:16,872 --> 00:34:18,392
an addition. It's not the product,
724
00:34:18,392 --> 00:34:23,954
it's just sort of a a an an extra for your
your subscription.
725
00:34:23,954 --> 00:34:30,046
~ instead, if you are a print publisher
and you have a deep archive of content,
726
00:34:30,046 --> 00:34:33,416
~ you wanna do the reverse. You wanna get
that archive,
727
00:34:33,416 --> 00:34:37,898
you want to get the archive out of your
PDFs and onto the web as real web
articles,
728
00:34:37,898 --> 00:34:41,035
HTML articles, because because of SEO,
729
00:34:41,035 --> 00:34:42,649
~ because of social sharing.
730
00:34:43,215 --> 00:34:47,579
~ what we find is when a like when a
publisher puts
731
00:34:47,579 --> 00:34:52,142
~ an article on their website,
732
00:34:52,142 --> 00:34:54,885
~ it's like a magnet for traffic.
733
00:34:54,885 --> 00:34:58,978
If if it's news, maybe that magnet is good
for a for for a period of time.
734
00:34:58,978 --> 00:35:00,800
But the evergreen content is the gold,
735
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,402
right? So news publishers do have
evergreen content,
736
00:35:03,402 --> 00:35:06,494
magazine publishers have almost all
evergreen content.
737
00:35:06,494 --> 00:35:10,368
So you want to get that on the web and
you'll you'll it just creates like forever
738
00:35:10,368 --> 00:35:11,929
traffic with social.
739
00:35:12,344 --> 00:35:15,146
And SEO and A AI discoverability too,
740
00:35:15,146 --> 00:35:19,659
which is a separate topic. ~ Modern
Drummer,
741
00:35:19,659 --> 00:35:22,291
when we onboarded ~ magazine, when we
onboarded them,
742
00:35:22,291 --> 00:35:27,754
they they started putting ~ their archives
~ once every month they published
743
00:35:27,754 --> 00:35:29,255
an issue going forward on the web.
744
00:35:29,255 --> 00:35:32,277
they published one archive issue going
backward,
745
00:35:32,277 --> 00:35:35,639
and they doubled their traffic in a year
without even trying.
746
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:41,143
It was just crazy how live web traffic was
generating.
747
00:35:42,291 --> 00:35:47,115
all that natural as you know organic ~
social sharing all that good stuff.
748
00:35:47,115 --> 00:35:53,279
Okay. I will throw in that
749
00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:57,412
we we have a a new new product for if you
have print archives and you want
750
00:35:57,412 --> 00:35:59,623
to get them on the web, go to reissue.app.
751
00:35:59,623 --> 00:36:03,546
Just check it out. There's ~ you can
upload I think right now it's up
752
00:36:03,546 --> 00:36:10,051
to three free issues to to ~ get all the ~
our AI basically translates all the text
753
00:36:10,655 --> 00:36:12,897
And the images and high quality,
754
00:36:12,897 --> 00:36:16,129
high resolution images, all the formatting
into WordPress posts.
755
00:36:16,129 --> 00:36:17,687
It just shoots them straight into
WordPress.
756
00:36:17,687 --> 00:36:22,243
So you can you can scan ~ an archive up to
a hundred megs,
757
00:36:22,243 --> 00:36:27,817
I think, the of a PDF. And you can you can
edit it quickly right in the app.
758
00:36:27,817 --> 00:36:29,328
And then when it's ready to go,
759
00:36:29,328 --> 00:36:33,171
you just shoot that straight in into
WordPress and they show up as draft posts.
760
00:36:33,171 --> 00:36:37,714
~ our publishers using it are telling us
that it's like magic.
761
00:36:37,714 --> 00:36:39,405
It's they've never seen anything like it.
762
00:36:39,855 --> 00:36:43,377
It's new product. Love to for you to just
try it.
763
00:36:43,377 --> 00:36:46,858
reissue dot app.
764
00:36:46,858 --> 00:36:49,480
Okay. wow, this is my second sales pitch.
765
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,352
How about that? ~ okay,
766
00:36:53,352 --> 00:36:55,923
we talked about email. ~
767
00:36:56,055 --> 00:36:59,506
Talked about the archive. And I'd say,
768
00:36:59,506 --> 00:37:01,246
and I don't know if you have any other
thoughts on this,
769
00:37:01,246 --> 00:37:04,103
but we we sort of talked about telling
readers why.
770
00:37:04,103 --> 00:37:06,374
Like if you're gonna make a big change in
print,
771
00:37:06,374 --> 00:37:11,415
tell your readers why. Be transparent
about why you need to do this.
772
00:37:11,415 --> 00:37:14,576
~ I mean, this goes, this is really,
773
00:37:14,576 --> 00:37:16,796
of course, this is like a human thing.
774
00:37:16,796 --> 00:37:19,267
It's like you're gonna do something
drastic.
775
00:37:19,267 --> 00:37:22,398
You just wanna explain to audience why
you're doing it.
776
00:37:22,398 --> 00:37:23,398
And
777
00:37:24,682 --> 00:37:28,906
Just remember, you're going to tell people
like why it's going to be better down
778
00:37:28,906 --> 00:37:30,407
the road. What are the benefits?
779
00:37:30,407 --> 00:37:32,448
You have the why. This is why we're doing
it.
780
00:37:32,448 --> 00:37:34,270
And here's how we're going to do it.
781
00:37:34,270 --> 00:37:36,192
And this is how it's going to be better.
782
00:37:36,192 --> 00:37:40,415
That's the storyline that you want to send
out in your emails or your print matter
783
00:37:40,415 --> 00:37:43,398
or whatever you use to communicate the big
change.
784
00:37:43,398 --> 00:37:49,342
so I think that's anything else on the
how-to department.
785
00:37:49,342 --> 00:37:53,406
We showed off a few articles, talked
about.
786
00:37:54,112 --> 00:37:59,344
Building an an email list. ~ and making
that the product,
787
00:37:59,344 --> 00:38:00,787
making the newsletter the product.
788
00:38:00,787 --> 00:38:02,932
Anything else, Tyler? Does that cover it
pretty good?
789
00:38:03,144 --> 00:38:04,299
Yeah, that that does it.
790
00:38:05,076 --> 00:38:07,419
I think we got it. Okay. All right.
791
00:38:07,419 --> 00:38:10,583
~ hopefully that was ~ helpful to you
guys.
792
00:38:10,583 --> 00:38:14,137
If you have questions, please reach out
info at leakypaywell dot com.
793
00:38:14,137 --> 00:38:17,851
And ~ hey, catch you next time.
794
00:38:17,851 --> 00:38:18,851
Thanks, Tyler.
795
00:38:19,124 --> 00:38:20,124
See you!
