Lessons in Leadership with Andreas Widmer

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Welcome back to another episode of the Genius Podcast.



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My name is Karen Doyle, your host and founder of The Genius Project, an



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initiative for Catholic women designed to resource and support you towards



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Ladies, over the last few weeks we have been.



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I guess following the breadcrumbs, as I like to say, we say that in business, but



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following the moves of the Holy Spirit.



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And I really believe that the spirit is inviting us as women to



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tap into and unearth our unique God-given potential and gifts.



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And it's in finding and discovering what those gifts are that we discover



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our mission, our purpose, and what our personal vocation is, where we are



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being called to serve and to contribute with our gifts and into the lives of.



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Those around us.



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So to take this conversation further, we are incredibly blessed today



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to have Andreas Vidmar joining us.



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Andreas is the founder and director of the coco Center for Principled



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Entrepreneurship at the Catholic University of America, where he loves



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to teach and mentor students towards.



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Their true calling.



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Previously, Andreas helped lead high tech companies bringing more than 100 leading



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edge technology products to market.



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He also led several organizations focused on enterprise solutions to poverty.



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Most interestingly, he is a former member of the Swiss Guard serving under Pope



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John Paul ii, and he is the author of the book, the Pope and the c e o, which



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describes the 10 lessons that he learned.



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From the late hope about leadership, and importantly, the centrality



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of the human person in work.



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Andrea's biggest accomplishment in life is building a great marriage together



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with his wife Michelle, and his biggest joy is seeing the character of their



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teenage son Eli, develop and Grow.



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Andrea's has a passion for helping professionals of all ages to find deeper



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meaning in their work and sustainable success in principled entrepreneurship.



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Ladies, this conversation with Andreas is, Seriously, one that



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you are not going to want to miss.



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So I really encourage you to carve out the time and space to maybe take



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some notes and to really listen to what he's sharing in this week's



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episode of The Genius Podcast.



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Enjoy.



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Well, Andres, welcome to the Genius Podcast.



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You're in one of the, the v i p group of three men who've had the, um, the



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privilege of being on this podcast.



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So welcome.



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You're joining us all the way from just outside of Washington, DC Thanks.



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Thanks for having me.



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I feel very privileged.



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Not only.



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I, one of three men, but I'm on the Genius podcast, so that's, that's an achieve.



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Oh, well, look, thank you so much.



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I know you and I connected, I, I tracked you down on Instagram recently, but I



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actually came across you to begin with reading your book, the Pope and the c e o.



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And this was a beautiful read.



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I know that you've been a guest on my husband's podcast as well, and,



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and he connected with that book, I think when it first came out,



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but I'm a little slow to catch up, so I'm a few years behind him in.



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Connecting.



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But it, look, it was a, a beautiful book and you've had such an incredible



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sort of journey in your life.



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I guess working, you had the privilege of serving blessed Pope John Paul II in the



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Swiss Guard, which is I, I just cannot imagine the honor and that experience.



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But before we dive into that, could you share a little bit



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about yourself with our listeners?



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Your background, what you're doing now?



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Yeah.



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Um, so right now I'm, I'm here in Washington, DC um, I teach at the Catholic



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University of America in the business school, the British School of Business.



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And I started an entrepreneurship center here called the Ciocca Center



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for Principal Entrepreneurship.



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And, but I'm, I'm not an academic.



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I don't have a doctorate.



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I'm a practitioner, so I have, I'm a lifelong entrepreneur.



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Um, as you say, I was in the Swiss guards many, many years ago as a



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young man, but came to America and.



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I was very blessed with a career in high tech software building



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companies, forming, you know, growing and helping to grow companies.



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And so on.



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This twist and turn way, I found my way to appreciate more and more.



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I mean, my, my initial kind of, you could say reversion, but I grew up



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as a cultural Catholic, more or less.



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Sure.



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But then when went into the Swiss Guards, which is a foreign legion,



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I wasn't, I didn't do this.



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Most of the Swiss Guard don't do this for religious purpose or or religious reasons.



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They do this because it's cool to be a bodyguard and it's



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sort of a military thing to do.



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And, and that's why I did it.



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I didn't know what else to do and that I thought it was cool to be a bodyguard.



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And then, but then I met John Paul second and if changed my life and I



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found through him, I found Jesus Christ and I, I became a practicing Catholic.



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Wow.



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And then, but then, you know, it's like one step forward, two steps



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back through my whole career.



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I.



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It took me a long time to integrate what he taught mm-hmm.



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Into my work, you know, to bring this from Sunday to Monday through Saturday and, and



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to, to really make my work, my prayer, my business, my prayer and, and do all that.



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And that's something that I eventually wrote this book about.



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And then that book led to the invitation by this university for me to help them.



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Build a business school and, and that's what I've been



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doing for the last 10 years.



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Fantastic.



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What an experience.



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What a journey.



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Indeed.



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Praise God.



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I, I feel, I, I feel very blessed.



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Yes.



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And I think what you are, what you mentioned there is just that you



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went into the Swiss Guard not really knowing what you wanted to do.



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And I find it amazing how we can have a plan for our life and then



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we can start off on that plan.



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But then God has other ideas and, and kind of, we have these different paths that



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sometimes we might think are obstacles or disappointments, but can actually lead to.



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I guess our true vocation, a mission.



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One of the reasons why I left Switzerland was actually because I



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pretty much failed at everything.



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I, I was horrible in school.



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I, I have adhd, I, I I, when I was 20, but before I went into the Swiss



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guards, I'm, I'm not kidding you, I think I read two books in my life.



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Really?



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I grew up in a village of 400 people in, in the mountains.



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I was more outdoors.



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I was a physical kid.



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Yeah.



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And.



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So I came there with very little self-esteem.



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You know, the, usually the tough guys are the ones with the low self-esteem, so



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they make up with it with the toughness and yes, and that was me pretty much.



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Okay.



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And so that's something that John Paul saw right away.



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Now the way this works with God's providence, I think it was c k Chesterton



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who wrote in, I think it's the idea in the Ilian, but it doesn't really



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matter, but basically, What we do is we collaborate with God in a way, and even



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when we collaborate and make choices, God is like creating a symphony around us.



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And then we come in and we make the wrong tone, right?



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Mm-hmm.



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And we like coming in and I come in and say, I'm gonna leave my country.



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I'm gonna go do this.



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And in a way, I'm, I'm doing it halfway, more than half.



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Not for God.



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And then instead of God, you know, this is like the prodigal son kind of picture.



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Instead of God saying, oh, you not even, you should, you know you, I'm



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gonna exclude your, because it of course disrupts the symphony that God is playing.



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Instead of excluding me with that, or excluding you or or anybody with that,



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what God does is God expands the symphony.



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Until your tone fits.



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You see what I mean?



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That's beautiful.



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It's like that's my whole life story, that at all these places when I failed



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and at one and didn't measure up and I had a low self-esteem and all that.



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God would use this and expand the th the symphony until it fit into the great



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orchestra that God is like playing.



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The, the, this music of my life.



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The music of your life.



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The music of, of, of salvation history.



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That is a really beautiful analogy.



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I love that.



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I have never heard that before actually, but it's, it's quite beautiful.



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It was my, it was my son who told me about it.



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Rose because we homeschooled our son for the entirety of his education and,



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and he's very much into Chesterton and Tolkien and things like that.



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And he read that and comes to me and says, this is the most beautiful.



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And I said, yeah, this isn't be the most beautiful thing.



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It's amazing.



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You mentioned that you're homeschool your son.



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We, we homeschool our eldest daughter as well.



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And um, I think what you'd pick up on something there is quite beautiful is



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our school system just dumbs down a lot of the beauty, the truth, beauty and



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goodness really of what the church offers.



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Yeah.



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And what's available to us to flourish.



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And I know our eldest daughter, her world has just opened up in



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terms of what she's learning.



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And similar to you, she comes to us every day and I've learnt this



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and I've learned this and yeah.



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Beautiful joy that's opened up inside of her.



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And, and I think what I see in her is these seeds of vocation beginning Yeah.



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To emerge, which is, is really beautiful to witness.



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You know, one of the things, and I I, I'm just putting this together now



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as we're talking, is one of the key things that John Paul would tell me



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that would just like blow me away is to say, I cannot wait to see the great



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things you're gonna do with your life.



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And I'm like, Are you talking to me like I, I'll absolutely have



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absolutely no capacity to do this, but he says, oh, yes, you do.



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God is giving you all these gifts and everything, and I want you to not be



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afraid, like put out into the deep go.



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Don't be afraid.



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Go.



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What we're doing in our school system today is we're actually not



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holding the kids up to a stand.



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We have no confidence in them, and we have no hopes in them.



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We, they're not saying, oh, I can't wait to see the great things



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you're gonna do with your life.



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We basically put the students in a performance like in a, in a box.



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That they have to do a certain conformity, conformance, or performance,



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but we are not in awakening in them and seeing in them the person



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that God has made them to be.



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And this, it's almost like this blossoming coming out that they learn



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the love of learning and the love of the desire for God to then reach for



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that excellence that God made them for.



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We are suffocating that with a school system that ha, that leaves no room



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for, for personal vocation in this, which is as different as, as, as



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many, as as people that we have.



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Yes, absolutely.



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I remember my daughter came to me a couple of years ago.



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She said, mum, if I stay in this school, I'm going to end up really dumb.



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She said, because we just, we do nothing like girls are online



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shopping, everyone's on social media.



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And she said, I actually want to learn.



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I thought my husband and I said, well, What can we do?



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Like you, you have to listen to that and, and I think for us, our



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daughter, one of her charisms will be, and one of her gifts is this



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passion for truth and for knowledge.



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So I say to her, I can't wait to see what you are going to do with your



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life, cuz I see those gifts emerging.



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And this week I was walking with my son, he's only 14 and he's sort



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of starting to talk about electives and what he might do with his life.



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And he said, well, Someone said to him, you should do this, this, and this.



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And I, I opened up his world with a whole different, I guess, what do you call it?



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A, a table or a, a platter of, yeah, what can you do?



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Like what is possible, and let's have a look at what your innate gifts are.



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Let's check out your strengths and, and let's help you identify those so



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that you can make good choices that will lead you towards the vocation.



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God's chosen for you.



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And I.



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I love that.



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This, this is exactly what I'm teaching in my course here at the Catholic University.



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So I have one course, the intro course to business.



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It's called The Vocation of Business, and it's based on, on,



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on my book to Pope and the ceo.



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Yes.



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And in it, I'm, I'm basically approaching life from that.



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I mean, there's three levels of vocation.



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There's the universal vocation, which we all have, go back, go to



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God, and, and, and go to heaven and, and adore and praise God forever.



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So, but then there's the primary vocation, which is our way.



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Of life.



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So are, do we are, are we called to be married or religious or priest or single?



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And that's, and and I go with the students through this, but then we



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have a secondary vocation, which, which is what do you do every day?



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Right?



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Yeah.



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And that's your, yeah.



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That's, that's your work.



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And what we need to do is to find through the gifts that God gives us,



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and I specifically work on the secondary vocation, so I'll talk about the



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others, but that's, Different classes.



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I'm talking about the work vocation.



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You say, the first thing I need you to do is to meet yourself,



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to learn to ask like your family.



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And so what do you think?



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I have like a gift.



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Gong gives you gifts.



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That's why they're called gifts, right?



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Talents and is like gift.



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And so what I do is work with the students, with every student



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in my class, work to help you do an inventory of your gifts.



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And these are external gifts.



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I'm six nine.



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I'm a tall, big guy.



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But there's, that's one gift, right?



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And say, now how can I use this gift to help others, right?



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So there's two things I want to teach you.



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I want to help you figure out what your gifts are.



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And for that, I'm gonna, I have a whole program to help you with that, and



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then to turn around and then use these gifts and say, how may I help you?



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That's the core question of business.



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If I can help you with my gifts.



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Creating value for you, which value is another word for profit.



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If I can help you profitably with my gifts, I, we have a business, right?



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And then, and then when we have a business that becomes our, our



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profession, our career, our industry.



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And that's what the student, uh, learns throughout the school.



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That's why I start with every student individually a, a business in, in class.



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I don't let them collaborate with each other.



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I want, because I wanna show that I have had 1,200 students so far since I



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started teaching, and I have never had a student who couldn't start a business.



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Wow.



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Because God gifts, gifts to people every, every day.



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There's nobody without gifts.



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That's right.



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Absolutely.



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And you know, as you're talking, I think the Holy Spirit is actually



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doing something at the moment.



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The Holy Spirit has a message, I think, especially for the women who



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listen to the Genius podcast because the last two episodes that we've



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recorded have been along similar lines.



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Mm-hmm.



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And, and I think that the Holy Spirit is wanting to awaken within women,



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particularly their unique gifts.



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And then where are they called to serve and contribute?



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Yep.



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Because, I mean, it's a principle of life, isn't it?



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We reap what we sow, that when we are contributing, when we are seeking to be a



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gift, that's actually where we find true happiness, fulfillment, and joy is indeed.



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And I wanna say that this what I'm saying.



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So work is primarily the question, how may I help you with my gifts?



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Then?



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Much most work done in the world really is actually not done for profit



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because it's done for another reward.



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One of the ways of, uh, of, of human interaction is to get a reward.



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And the reward is love and service and holiness and all of that.



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And that's a lot of us at home.



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Like my, my wife and my, my mother-in-law just took care of my father-in-law who



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00:14:52
passed away, you know, a year or two ago.



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00:14:55
And that is, that was work.



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00:14:57
Mm-hmm.



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00:14:57
But the reward of that has to do with eternal life and,



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00:15:00
and love and all of that.



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00:15:02
Um, but in, but that doesn't mean somebody who does that



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00:15:07
cannot move and move into the.



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00:15:10
Business world of saying, how may I help you and add value for others?



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00:15:15
Yes.



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00:15:15
Maybe outside the family or so, and start to generate a return with them.



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00:15:20
Mm-hmm.



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00:15:20
That's, that's what I'm teaching.



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00:15:22
That's, I, I do a little bit in this book.



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00:15:24
I do much more of it in, in, in my new book.



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00:15:26
But I think that's especially true for, you know, I often talk to women



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00:15:32
who have used their, their genius.



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00:15:35
You know, John Paul would love to call the, the, the feminine genius who educate



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00:15:39
and bring up their children and to take care of people in the family to help maybe



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00:15:44
run the husband's business and everything.



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00:15:46
And now they're at the point of saying, okay, I'm now ready to do to



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00:15:50
for the next chapter and do something.



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00:15:52
That's when I do a lot of work in helping people.



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00:15:54
How do you discern that?



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00:15:56
How do you create a profitable venue without betting the farm?



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00:16:01
How do you explore these talents and see what the market is?



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00:16:05
Response to that can turn into a profitable, uh, revenue stream.



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00:16:09
Yeah, absolutely.



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00:16:11
And I think I, on the last podcast that I did with Renee Doyle, we spoke a little



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00:16:15
bit around this idea that sometimes women get lost in and they kind of move



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00:16:20
to the sidelines of their own life.



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00:16:21
They think that they're just a mum or just raising the kids, which



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00:16:24
is a sort of an illegal word.



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00:16:26
I would say, yeah, there's no trust on that.



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00:16:28
There is, that is the greatest task.



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00:16:30
And I think in our culture, we need to remind women that they don't



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00:16:33
necessarily have to be out producing and, and getting all the Instagram



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00:16:37
likes and kicking big goals because you, let me just tell you something.



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00:16:40
Let me just tell you something.



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00:16:41
So if you are a mom listening to this and you think you trust brought



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00:16:46
up one or two or three or more kids, The most stressful thing.



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00:16:51
So I ran companies with thousands of employees.



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00:16:54
I was in the military.



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00:16:55
I was a bodyguard.



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00:16:56
The most stressful thing I've ever done in my life is when my wife was



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00:17:00
in the hospital and I had to take of a take care of a six months old.



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00:17:05
I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't watch, I didn't know what was up or down,



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00:17:09
and I can handle all these other things, but this, you couldn't handle that.



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00:17:13
And I, I kissed her feet and I thank God when my wife came back.



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00:17:17
Now you tell me you have nothing to offer.



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00:17:20
I beg to differ.



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00:17:21
Can you speak into that for a moment?



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00:17:23
Because I, I, I really think it's a powerful message.



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00:17:26
I don't, I believe as we're progressing in this culture, and, and I think throughout



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00:17:30
Covid the last five years, different trends, ideologies have accelerated.



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00:17:34
And I think there is a real devaluing of the gift and the value of femininity and



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00:17:39
the gift and the value of motherhood.



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00:17:40
And I'd love you to just speak into that.



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00:17:42
To really affirm women and remind them of their value.



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00:17:45
The biggest thing I, I want you to have confidence.



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00:17:48
I want you to have confidence.



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00:17:49
I keep saying this to my students as well.



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00:17:51
Trust you are, you, are, you are, you are a daughter of God, like God made you with



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00:17:57
all kinds of possibilities for the good.



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00:17:59
Okay?



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00:18:01
One gift that you, and, and of course every person has to be that



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00:18:05
you have to discover the gifts for every person, and some we can say.



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00:18:10
What John Paul would talk about the genius, uh, of women is that empathy.



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00:18:15
Mm-hmm.



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00:18:15
That you, you basically, and the reason why it takes, why I have such a horrible



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00:18:19
time, I think with, with the six months old, is that everything is a crisis.



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00:18:23
I have no anticipation because I don't know what's coming.



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00:18:26
So I don't have the empathy to actually say, this is a sign of that to come.



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00:18:31
I don't see it.



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00:18:32
So think of what I said, the core sentence of business is, how may I help you?



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00:18:40
Who can answer that better than a mother or a woman or a person with



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00:18:46
strong empathy who sees the other person and they don't have to say a



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00:18:50
word, you know exactly what they need.



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00:18:54
That is, that is gold.



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00:18:57
Okay.



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00:18:57
That, I mean, this is like what, what product producers, product



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00:19:00
creators, service providers want is the anticipation of the customer need.



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00:19:06
Now you can say, well, I don't know about this product or that product.



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00:19:10
That's a skill.



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00:19:11
There's a difference.



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00:19:12
You, you have talents and then the skill.



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00:19:15
So the talent, I can't teach you the talent.



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00:19:17
Either you have the talent or you don't.



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00:19:19
It's like, I'm six foot nine, I'm not gonna be a horse jock, okay?



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00:19:23
That I can't train myself into it.



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00:19:25
But as a tall guy, you can teach me basketball, right?



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00:19:29
So as a person of empathy, marketing and understanding how a product



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00:19:34
works or how the market works is something that's a skill, not a talent.



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00:19:38
Mm-hmm.



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00:19:38
Talents you have, you discover skills, you learn, you acquire.



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00:19:44
And then the third thing, you can really only teach three things.



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00:19:46
You can teach, uh, the, uh, the, the skill, the knowledge.



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00:19:50
And then the third thing is the character.



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00:19:52
That is your values, your virtues.



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00:19:55
Your what you, how you behave and what you desire ultimately.



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00:19:58
Mm-hmm.



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00:19:59
Right.



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00:19:59
And those, those you have as a, you know, if you brought up a family and



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00:20:04
you, you nurture the family, then that's, you're, you are good on that.



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00:20:07
It's the, the middle piece that's missing and that's the skill.



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00:20:11
But the skill is the easiest part of the equation.



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00:20:14
Yes.



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00:20:14
Basically a skill.



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00:20:15
You only a.



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00:20:17
Acquire through practice and my approach to these kind of things is



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00:20:20
always to say, what's the next step?



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00:20:22
Don't, don't go.



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00:20:23
Don't get ahead of yourself.



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00:20:25
Just say, I have an overall vision and my and your only decision, and



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00:20:30
your only question is, what's the next small step I need to take?



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00:20:35
Don't, we're not talking about five years from now, just take the next step.



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00:20:40
And, and start to define the measurements.



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00:20:42
I, I love to sort of work with God in a way of saying,



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00:20:45
look, Lord, I'm gonna do this.



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00:20:46
I'm gonna pull on this, and if you want me to do this, then



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00:20:50
put, put a fish on the end.



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00:20:52
Put a fish on the end of that line.



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00:20:53
And I, I'm gonna pull on this line and this line and this line.



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00:20:56
That's my way of discernment, but I have to do the next step and the next, and



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00:21:00
the next, which is to pull on the line.



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00:21:03
And that's a very basic form of discernment.



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00:21:06
Well, you pray through it, but it's a very basic form of discernment,



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00:21:10
which our commitment is action.



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00:21:12
That we act upon our insights and to act upon the talents that God gave



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00:21:17
you, that you don't go bury them, that you actually trade with them.



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00:21:21
Mm-hmm.



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00:21:21
And that's, I, I think what we're called to do.



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00:21:24
Absolutely.



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00:21:25
And to be good stewards, like I think you said that first



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00:21:28
step is that self-awareness, like understanding yourself.



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00:21:31
That's sort of what I was teaching my son.



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00:21:32
I'm like, what brings you life?



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00:21:33
What brings you joy?



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00:21:34
What are you good at?



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00:21:35
So it's that self-awareness and then it's, it's sort of stewarding and identifying



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00:21:39
the gifts a and then upskilling.



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00:21:42
So that you can serve.



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00:21:44
Yeah, because I think, you know, a gift is very much like a



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00:21:47
plant that we have to water it.



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00:21:48
We have to cultivate yeah, the soil and provide the conditions



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00:21:52
so that it can grow and flourish.



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00:21:54
And I think sometimes we forget that we, we think that God will just



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00:21:57
drop a facts from heaven telling us what to do, but we forget this



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00:22:00
cooperative and that co-creative aspect.



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00:22:03
Do you know that I don't teach, it's not exactly true, but in general



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00:22:08
I do not teach business plans.



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00:22:11
Because I want to teach business dues.



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00:22:14
D don't, I'm I, I want you to have a, a, a general idea of what you're gonna do.



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00:22:19
But you know, you know, as well as, I, I mean, you guys have,



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00:22:21
have started several businesses.



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00:22:23
The first thing that's gonna change is the business plan, and the reality looks



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00:22:26
very different than the business plan.



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00:22:28
My goal, In working with students is to say, let's find the first customer.



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00:22:33
Let's go ask the first person, how may I help you?



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00:22:36
And then do something profitably.



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00:22:38
Once you, that's an immediate market validation.



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00:22:41
It also gives you a immediate revenue, and B, it gives you immediate feedback on



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00:22:46
That's so helpful on so many levels, and that's what I mean by fishing right away.



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00:22:50
I put the line in the water right away.



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00:22:52
Your goal is not to create a business plan.



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00:22:54
Your goal is to get the first customer.



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00:22:57
And that can, and there there's this idea.



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00:22:59
That's this guy, Kevin Kelly.



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00:23:01
It it, it applies to this small startup, I would say.



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00:23:04
I, I teach this method called Lean Startup and okay.



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00:23:07
People always think that I need to have this huge business and I need to



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00:23:10
be, whatever you call it in Australia, we, Walmart or Amazon or something.



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00:23:15
No, no, no.



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00:23:15
You don't need to be Bill Gates.



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00:23:16
I don't know Bill Gates.



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00:23:18
All you need is if you have a small business where you have a



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00:23:22
call to action and there's maybe.



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00:23:25
A thousand people somehow involved in what you're doing.



Speaker:
00:23:29
You're done.



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00:23:30
All you need is a thousand customers and you're done.



Speaker:
00:23:35
That's a much more manageable, and, and once you get one and then



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00:23:38
two, and then three, and then at a hundred, you're already at 10%.



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00:23:42
Yes.



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00:23:43
Imagine.



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00:23:43
Think about it that way.



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00:23:45
And who would be that first one?



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00:23:47
That's why I would, the time, instead of into a business plan, I, I invest



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00:23:51
into the first profitable customer.



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00:23:55
And, and it's take, like taking that first step and meeting that



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00:23:58
first person, uh, coming to mind as a woman here in Australia.



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00:24:01
Her name's Janet Smith and she had this beautiful idea.



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00:24:04
So it might not even be a business idea.



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00:24:06
It might be a ministry idea.



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00:24:07
It might be just something that you might.



Speaker:
00:24:10
Want to start up in your little, yeah.



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00:24:12
Your local community where you are.



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00:24:14
But I remember this woman, Janet, she came to me.



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00:24:16
She had this idea of creating a forum where women could come and do craft,



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00:24:22
but they would have a speaker and they would be renewed in their faith.



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00:24:25
And that's now called the makers table.



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00:24:26
And she runs these all over the place now.



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00:24:29
But she started small.



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00:24:30
So she has, I think, Six or seven children.



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00:24:34
So, you know, I have friends with many kids and they've been able



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00:24:38
to start up incredible ventures.



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00:24:40
Exactly.



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00:24:40
I'm not, I'm not enamored with the greatest dreams or



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00:24:46
aspirations in that sense.



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00:24:47
What I'm enamored with is to find, is to create value in everyday life.



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00:24:51
I'll give you a couple of examples that just come to mind.



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00:24:53
I have, I have a friend who literally started his company.



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00:24:56
He studied philosophy.



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00:24:57
And, and then was it like in social work and then eventually the only



Speaker:
00:25:00
thing he started to do is to say, I'm gonna introduce people to each other.



Speaker:
00:25:03
Yes.



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00:25:04
And he just lived on, I mean, he, he, it, it was no money in



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00:25:07
the beginning, so, Where he said, you need to meet that person.



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00:25:10
And of course he had this slant towards business of saying, you guys



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00:25:14
should do business together and you people should do business together.



Speaker:
00:25:16
And let me get this and introduce this person.



Speaker:
00:25:18
They should, they're looking to buy this.



Speaker:
00:25:20
They should go there today.



Speaker:
00:25:21
He has hundreds of people working for him.



Speaker:
00:25:23
And he, he, he eventually moved into a software development where he started



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00:25:26
to develop products for other people.



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00:25:28
And all he started with is to connect people.



Speaker:
00:25:31
It's, how may I help you?



Speaker:
00:25:32
I can, oh, you need you, you know, when I hear your story, you



Speaker:
00:25:35
need to meet that, that person.



Speaker:
00:25:36
This is somebody who.



Speaker:
00:25:38
If your talent is that you know people and you understand, you know,



Speaker:
00:25:42
you can understand different kind of people, then that's a talent



Speaker:
00:25:45
and that's a valuable talent.



Speaker:
00:25:46
You can bring it across.



Speaker:
00:25:48
I, I have a friend where, where she basically had, she



Speaker:
00:25:52
just has this artistic talent.



Speaker:
00:25:54
She's a strong introvert, wouldn't want to speak to a crowd



Speaker:
00:25:57
of her life, depended on it.



Speaker:
00:25:58
Okay, sure.



Speaker:
00:25:58
But the sense of beauty and the sense of.



Speaker:
00:26:02
Like most greeting cards and things like that.



Speaker:
00:26:04
And, and designs were just either not of good quality or not wholesome.



Speaker:
00:26:09
And so she started to make her own, she did like wedding invitations and she did



Speaker:
00:26:13
greeting cards and stuff, and, and, and she started to sell them, but it, it grew.



Speaker:
00:26:17
And so her husband eventually joined her and they, and today they have



Speaker:
00:26:21
this, I mean, the US market is of course also very large, but they



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00:26:24
have this large paper company.



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00:26:27
Where they, uh, where they produce beautiful designs,



Speaker:
00:26:31
and she still does that.



Speaker:
00:26:32
She still does her designs, and that's, that's her gift, like



Speaker:
00:26:36
her sense of beauty and goodness.



Speaker:
00:26:39
Of saying people want to give cards and invitations to each other that are



Speaker:
00:26:43
wholesome and beautiful and beautiful.



Speaker:
00:26:45
That's right.



Speaker:
00:26:45
Yes.



Speaker:
00:26:45
And so, I mean, and so that, so you can have a hundred different stories.



Speaker:
00:26:49
One of the things that John Paul did that I often try to do that, so if



Speaker:
00:26:53
you, if you are listening and you have an idea, he would ha he had



Speaker:
00:26:56
a desk in the chapel, uh, right.



Speaker:
00:26:59
Write a small writing disc.



Speaker:
00:27:00
And he would always have these yellow notepads, you know, with the white,



Speaker:
00:27:03
with the red lines and the yellow.



Speaker:
00:27:05
Yes.



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00:27:05
And.



Speaker:
00:27:06
He would go into the chapel and sit and start to write his plan, like



Speaker:
00:27:11
his encyclicals, his, you know, the big, the big movements of his papacy.



Speaker:
00:27:16
And he would basically go in there and say, Lord, here I am.



Speaker:
00:27:19
I wanna do your will now.



Speaker:
00:27:20
Would be a good way, now would be a really good time to inspire me.



Speaker:
00:27:24
You know, I'm coming to you, you're, you're the chairman of the



Speaker:
00:27:27
board of my, of what I do here.



Speaker:
00:27:29
And I, and, and, and in adoration first, and then, and then write and pray.



Speaker:
00:27:33
He would actually integrate Jesus into his, into his work.



Speaker:
00:27:37
That way that anything you read from John Paul the second is gonna be



Speaker:
00:27:41
started in front of the Eucharist.



Speaker:
00:27:43
So be like John Paul, take your pen and pad and go into, into your church



Speaker:
00:27:49
and go in front of my yellow note pad.



Speaker:
00:27:51
Go in front of the Eucharist and say, here I am, Lord.



Speaker:
00:27:55
Yeah, I'm, you know, I come to do your will.



Speaker:
00:27:58
I need to do your will.



Speaker:
00:27:58
Tell me That's right.



Speaker:
00:28:00
Tell me what that is, and then start to write and let your con don't,



Speaker:
00:28:04
don't look over your shoulder.



Speaker:
00:28:06
Let it go.



Speaker:
00:28:07
Let it go.



Speaker:
00:28:07
You're, you're with a loving God, with, with a father, with a brother who, who



Speaker:
00:28:11
loves you and just trust that process.



Speaker:
00:28:15
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:28:16
That's beautiful.



Speaker:
00:28:17
I, I think, um, I run a Catholic Women's Masterclass here and one of the modules



Speaker:
00:28:21
we talk about is really helping to unearth those hidden desires and the



Speaker:
00:28:25
dreams in women's hearts, because I think the greatest thing that women



Speaker:
00:28:28
need is to be given permission to dream.



Speaker:
00:28:30
Mm-hmm.



Speaker:
00:28:31
That life gets a little serious and a little heavy, and there's all of



Speaker:
00:28:33
the demands, but even in the midst of all of that, if you still have



Speaker:
00:28:37
a dream that you can just fan that flame that's, that brings this life.



Speaker:
00:28:42
And this joy to you, that even in the midst of the struggle and the hustle,



Speaker:
00:28:46
there's that little bit of life and, and so there is a real invitation for women.



Speaker:
00:28:50
I'd really encourage women listening just to do exactly what you're saying



Speaker:
00:28:53
to, to go before the Lord and say, what is the dream that you have



Speaker:
00:28:57
for me in this season of my life?



Speaker:
00:28:59
And then ta start to take little steps.



Speaker:
00:29:02
I think this week I've been trying to do a project for schools.



Speaker:
00:29:05
We, we have a business that does a lot of resource and



Speaker:
00:29:07
respectful relationship space.



Speaker:
00:29:10
And it's, it's hit roadblocks for about 12 months.



Speaker:
00:29:13
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:29:13
And on Monday I just said to God, right, if you want this to happen, you're gonna



Speaker:
00:29:17
have to open the doors because this is, yeah, just becoming too much hard work.



Speaker:
00:29:21
Do you know within, so I hadn't done it because I didn't have a



Speaker:
00:29:24
venue, I didn't have a videographer.



Speaker:
00:29:26
I didn't have a narrator.



Speaker:
00:29:27
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:29:27
I didn't have students.



Speaker:
00:29:28
Do you know, within 30 minutes of saying that prayer on Monday



Speaker:
00:29:31
morning this week, I had a venue.



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00:29:33
We had a videographer, we had a narrator, and we had 10 students to



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00:29:36
participate and we're filming tomorrow.



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00:29:38
And so sometimes we just gotta beg God.



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00:29:40
Exactly.



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00:29:41
Sometimes we do, and sometimes it comes out this way or that way.



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00:29:44
I, I have to say, I've had the situations where I was trying



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00:29:48
to get back into an industry.



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00:29:49
I, I just finished with one company and I, I went into this ven venture capital



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00:29:54
firm, and I'm telling you, I tried everything under the sun to get back



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00:29:59
into this industry and to do my next company it, and, The question is this.



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00:30:04
Mm-hmm.



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00:30:05
If I, what I wanna show is, is that this go, if there's no fish



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00:30:10
on that line, I will move on.



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00:30:11
And, and God has my commitment to say, I, you know, it's this radical



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00:30:16
dependence on God to say, no fish, no go.



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00:30:19
Right?



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00:30:20
So, I am willing to change my course if the feedback, if the discernment



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00:30:26
is that I should not do this.



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00:30:28
It helps to have, especially in big things like this, where I'm.



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00:30:32
In this industry, and it's, and I'm clearly seeing this is not going



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00:30:36
anywhere to have a spiritual director, um, that, that is a solid, uh,



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00:30:42
person and is trained in this, in the discernment and, and can guide you



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00:30:47
that I had somebody guide me with that.



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00:30:49
But that's in a way, you know, this change of, of career that I



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00:30:52
had from, from high tech running high tech companies and and so on.



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00:30:56
Yeah.



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00:30:56
To, to now being a professor was a.



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00:30:59
Was an experience like that, you know?



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00:31:01
Mm-hmm.



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00:31:01
This didn't just, uh, happen like that.



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00:31:04
So I wanna show both sides that yes.



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00:31:07
And maybe in the beginning you will have had had three of these fishing lines,



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00:31:11
but there's nothing on it and I need you to move on and put another fish



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00:31:15
and put another line in, you know, the neck as Jesus would say and keep going.



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00:31:20
Yes.



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00:31:21
Fantastic.



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00:31:23
Well, look, can we change pace a little bit here?



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00:31:25
Because I'd really love to hear about your experience, I guess, working



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00:31:29
with John Paul ii and just, I know in your book you said he's perhaps the



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00:31:33
most authentically human person Yeah.



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00:31:35
You'd ever met.



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00:31:37
I'm just interested in, I guess, what was that experience like for you and.



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00:31:41
You'd said that it was because of him that you had this conversion back to the faith



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00:31:45
and you became a practicing Catholic.



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00:31:47
Yeah.



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00:31:47
As opposed to a cultural Catholic.



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00:31:49
What was, what were those interactions like and, and what



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00:31:51
was that pivotal moment that really turned your heart towards Christ?



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00:31:56
So the first interaction with him, and this how this whole came about, It is



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00:32:02
this, it's, it is the starting point.



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00:32:04
The starting point, and I touched on it before, is this insecure self that



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00:32:07
I, um, and we, we all have that without God, that we don't know who we are.



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00:32:13
We're trying to prove ourselves.



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00:32:14
We know we're weak inside and we're looking, and I just, I was just



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00:32:18
a confused kid and just was just putting this toughness outside.



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00:32:23
I used my, my size to basically then just put on tough.



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00:32:27
Okay.



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00:32:27
And, uh, so that's how I show up down there.



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00:32:30
So, But inside, God sort of prepped this in a way that my, my



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00:32:37
first time going to work there.



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00:32:40
Uh, you know, I went to a a, so I went to all the Swiss military and then a



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00:32:43
recruit skill school in, in the Vatican.



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00:32:46
And I started working right around Christmas and I knew that my family,



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00:32:53
I'm the youngest of six kids, were celebrating Christmas and everything.



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00:32:55
And I was so miserable and I so much regretted.



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00:32:58
Entering there because there, I suddenly saw how tough it was.



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00:33:02
Mm.



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00:33:02
That I just wanted to go home, but I couldn't because I signed up.



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00:33:05
I mean, and I'm now in this thing and, and I was a, a herding puppy, I'm telling you.



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00:33:10
And I, and I was asked to go and serve right in front of his apartment,



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00:33:14
but to me, that didn't really mean anything or I didn't really care.



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00:33:18
And because I pretty much spent that whole evening crying.



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00:33:22
Did you, because I just regretted.



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00:33:24
Having, even throwing to guards and everything.



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00:33:26
And then he comes out of that door and finds me there, basically crying



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00:33:31
and he, IM, see he immediately looked through me and he said, look, I'm, I'm so



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00:33:37
happy that you're here working with me.



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00:33:40
You will see everything's gonna be fine, you.



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00:33:42
And, and he basically embraced me and said that he was happy to be there,



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00:33:46
that he will now go and pray for me.



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00:33:48
And, and he went to celebrate Christmas mass, what it was.



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00:33:52
I had this anger in me and this man comes to me and he wasn't the pope to me.



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00:33:58
I didn't know what that meant.



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00:34:00
Mm-hmm.



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00:34:00
There is this human being come to me with these deep, clearly gray, gray



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00:34:04
eyes embracing me and saying, I feel, I feel your anger, and I feel your pain.



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00:34:09
I'm so sorry.



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00:34:10
You'll see everything is gonna be okay.



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00:34:12
Here's what I'm gonna do for you right now.



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00:34:14
Not, you know, Andres, you should do this.



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00:34:16
No.



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00:34:17
Here's what I'm, I'm gonna do this right now for you.



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00:34:19
I'm gonna go and I'm gonna pray and celebrate mass for you.



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00:34:23
I, if he would've told me to pray, I wouldn't know how to pray.



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00:34:26
I, I didn't pray.



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00:34:28
And here I'm, I'm like saying this is very different.



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00:34:30
This, this man approaches me in a totally different way.



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00:34:33
And he saw, he saw my weakness, but he didn't exploit it, didn't,



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00:34:37
didn't, didn't touch into it.



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00:34:39
He, he basically acknowledged me and, and offered help doing something for me.



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00:34:44
And, and from then on our.



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00:34:47
Our conversation kind of, kind of, you know, continued every



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00:34:51
time we saw each other as a guard.



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00:34:54
You, you don't talk to the pope unless the pope talks to you, right?



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00:34:56
I mean, just we're bodyguards, we're in the background.



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00:34:59
And so, and it's not, we're not having this, these two hour conversations



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00:35:02
or so, but it's like passing.



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00:35:04
He stops, he says, how are we doing?



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00:35:05
How are you feeling?



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00:35:06
Better?



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00:35:07
And eventually he of course takes his rosary and he says, look, I, I pray this.



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00:35:13
This is my favorite prayer.



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00:35:16
And he gives me the rosary.



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00:35:18
Mm-hmm.



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00:35:18
And I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not gonna pray the rosary, man.



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00:35:25
He basically, what happened is, that's great.



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00:35:29
He be, yeah.



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00:35:30
He became such a, I, I tell you, he became, with his life, he



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00:35:35
became such a role model for me.



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00:35:37
He was a tough guy.



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00:35:39
He would go swimming, he would go hiking and skiing.



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00:35:42
We could hardly keep up with him.



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00:35:44
Really?



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00:35:44
And, and this was a 60 year old man, and we were 20.



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00:35:47
Okay.



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00:35:47
And I was pregnant.



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00:35:49
Yeah.



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00:35:49
And so he, to me, he was like, wow.



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00:35:52
And, but then also he was jovial.



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00:35:54
I saw him in the circus came and there were poetry readings and music.



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00:35:58
And then, and then I saw him pray with this intensity.



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00:36:02
And I saw somebody who knew who he was and he was happy.



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00:36:06
And I'm like, that's what I want.



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00:36:08
I want him.



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00:36:10
And then when I approached him, he says, You don't want me, you want who?



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00:36:15
I have Jesus here.



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00:36:19
Yeah.



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00:36:19
You want Jesus Christ.



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00:36:21
And you can have him and I, and it was sort of a, a, a guide, you know,



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00:36:27
he sort of guided me towards this.



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00:36:30
And it was through prayer, through Mary and the Eucharist that he, and



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00:36:35
there were people involved around him.



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00:36:37
Um, That I became that, that this first infatuation and this first impression



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00:36:45
just on him, you see this is I think how, how conversion happens that I



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00:36:49
was so enamored with him and with his, what he stood for and how he loved me.



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00:36:55
And then he switched that over to Christ.



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00:36:58
And so he sort of took me, switched that over, and then that, um, blossomed



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00:37:03
into my faith and, and I'm, I will be forever grateful to this man



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00:37:07
because he didn't do this as the pope.



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00:37:10
He did this as my coworker, as he would say as human.



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00:37:13
Yes.



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00:37:14
As a human being, you know, because of our work together.



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00:37:17
Yeah.



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00:37:17
And that is something all of us are called to do.



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00:37:20
And, and it's exactly that model.



Speaker:
00:37:21
It goes all the way back to Paul.



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00:37:24
Hall did that.



Speaker:
00:37:24
Exactly.



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00:37:25
It was attempt making.



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00:37:25
That's exactly what he did.



Speaker:
00:37:27
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:37:28
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:37:28
That's just so beautiful.



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00:37:30
So I have to ask you, do you pray the rosary every day now?



Speaker:
00:37:33
I do with some exceptions.



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00:37:36
So now we also do it at, uh, with the family here.



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00:37:39
Yes.



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00:37:39
And I, I have to say like just right now, at the end of the



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00:37:43
semester, it has suffered a bit, but it is a constant companion and.



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00:37:48
I pray at least a bit of it every night in the guards.



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00:37:52
I'm telling you, I, during my whole discernment process of staying



Speaker:
00:37:56
or leaving there, I probably paid prayed 10 rosaries a day.



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00:38:00
Yeah.



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00:38:00
And so I, I, I still have some in my tank, I think.



Speaker:
00:38:04
Yes.



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00:38:04
Beautiful.



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00:38:06
So tell me, um, share with me another moment, I guess, with John Paul ii.



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00:38:11
Um, That really, I guess, ignited a passion for you.



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00:38:16
You, you talk about in this book the Pope and the c e o and some of the leadership



Speaker:
00:38:20
lessons that you learned from him.



Speaker:
00:38:21
I'm interested in some of those leadership lessons and how they translate to women in



Speaker:
00:38:26
whatever season they find themselves in.



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00:38:27
Because we are all called to be leaders.



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00:38:29
We are all called to be bearers of Christ's image to every



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00:38:32
single person that we encounter.



Speaker:
00:38:34
Can you highlight some of those leadership lessons and how they



Speaker:
00:38:37
might relate to women specifically?



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00:38:39
Yeah.



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00:38:41
One thing that just comes to my mind is when I, when I did the swearing



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00:38:44
in, when I gave my oath that I would give my life for, for the Pope, uh,



Speaker:
00:38:49
the pope then invites your parents and there is a private audience and



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00:38:53
you, and you know, this was like six, uh, it was four or five months after



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00:38:58
we met birth, after I showed up.



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00:39:00
And I just remember that transformation.



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00:39:02
So I, I left as a kid in Switzerland.



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00:39:04
I mean, I left at 19.



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00:39:06
And it was, you know, I still lived at home, so I still have my parents



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00:39:09
and, and I'm the youngest of, of six.



Speaker:
00:39:11
But then, but then I lived there in the Vatican and I, uh, and the parents arrived



Speaker:
00:39:15
of course, and they, they were not in a foreign environment and everything.



Speaker:
00:39:18
And then as we, we walk up this hall and the pope is at the end of the



Speaker:
00:39:22
wall, uh, of the hall and the long hall, and, and we walked towards him.



Speaker:
00:39:28
And I started to realize that, you know, I held my parents' hands many times.



Speaker:
00:39:33
But this time they held my hand.



Speaker:
00:39:35
It's just, it's this, it looks the same from the outside, but here they



Speaker:
00:39:39
hold my hand and I, I could feel it, and it, it was a cha It is my, my



Speaker:
00:39:43
entry into adulthood, in my opinion.



Speaker:
00:39:45
Mm-hmm.



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00:39:46
And here I come in front of the Pope, and when I come, what he does



Speaker:
00:39:51
is he, he diffuses the tension.



Speaker:
00:39:54
And what he did is in, he says, oh, here's Andreas.



Speaker:
00:39:56
He's my, he's, and he goes to my dad, you know, he's my tallest.



Speaker:
00:39:59
And I can see where he got it from because my dad is, you know, I'm his size.



Speaker:
00:40:03
I'm two meters and three, so that's like six nine.



Speaker:
00:40:06
Wow.



Speaker:
00:40:06
And so he, so he diffuse the situation and this 10 situation, he diffuses it,



Speaker:
00:40:12
makes a joke, and then turns around and says to my mom, you know, and



Speaker:
00:40:16
Andreas is really one of my favorites because, and then he started to



Speaker:
00:40:19
tell her things that I actually did.



Speaker:
00:40:22
I appreciate so much how he does this.



Speaker:
00:40:24
And he was there at Christmas and he's, he's a tough guy



Speaker:
00:40:27
and he goes the extra mile.



Speaker:
00:40:29
I'm telling you, thank you for sending him here.



Speaker:
00:40:31
I'm so happy I have pictures of it.



Speaker:
00:40:33
My mother, right.



Speaker:
00:40:34
And everything.



Speaker:
00:40:34
Oh, that is so beautiful.



Speaker:
00:40:35
And John Paul, you know, hugs her and everything.



Speaker:
00:40:39
What this means to translate it, take the pope out of it in



Speaker:
00:40:42
terms of him being the pope.



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00:40:44
Here's my manager.



Speaker:
00:40:46
Yes.



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00:40:46
Think of it this way.



Speaker:
00:40:47
My, the, the CEO of my company, where I work, who, when my loved



Speaker:
00:40:50
ones and when my community comes, points out why I'm so good.



Speaker:
00:40:55
Doesn't just say platitudes, uh, that fit anybody, but he knows who I am.



Speaker:
00:40:59
Yes.



Speaker:
00:41:00
And he can tell you what exactly I did.



Speaker:
00:41:02
We go back to the empathy and the noticing.



Speaker:
00:41:05
This is exactly the path.



Speaker:
00:41:06
Most men don't know how to do this.



Speaker:
00:41:08
Mm-hmm.



Speaker:
00:41:09
So you have this gift of praise that do this for your kids.



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00:41:14
Do this for the people you work with.



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00:41:16
If you go out into the marketplace, do this notice and comment if you, this has



Speaker:
00:41:21
created eternal loyalty for me to this man in, in the workspace even, because



Speaker:
00:41:27
everybody wants to be seen like this.



Speaker:
00:41:30
And his trick was this.



Speaker:
00:41:31
So eventually they asked him, how do you, how come people feel?



Speaker:
00:41:35
Even if they're one person in a million people that saw you, they feel like you're



Speaker:
00:41:39
speaking to them and he's like, not me.



Speaker:
00:41:42
Here's what I do, but I know the trick.



Speaker:
00:41:44
You think it's, it's not me, but I think I know the trick Before I meet people, I



Speaker:
00:41:49
pray for the Holy Spirit and I say, Lord God, if you wouldn't love these people,



Speaker:
00:41:55
they would immediately cease to exist.



Speaker:
00:41:57
So you are loving them into existence, and here they are in front of me.



Speaker:
00:42:02
Give me your eyes.



Speaker:
00:42:03
Take away my prejudice.



Speaker:
00:42:05
Take away my bias.



Speaker:
00:42:06
Give me your eyes to see them with the love you see them.



Speaker:
00:42:10
Because if you wouldn't love them, they wouldn't exist.



Speaker:
00:42:13
Mm-hmm.



Speaker:
00:42:13
And then I enter the room, we can all do that.



Speaker:
00:42:17
They say that a prayer to the Holy Spirit is not refuse.



Speaker:
00:42:21
Mm-hmm.



Speaker:
00:42:21
And so what he does and what we are, are called to do is to see others with this



Speaker:
00:42:27
God, with ho, with God's hopeful gaze.



Speaker:
00:42:30
Right.



Speaker:
00:42:31
Love that.



Speaker:
00:42:31
The, the God that's willing to change the symphony is, is this God with the hopeful



Speaker:
00:42:36
gaze to us to see the glass half full.



Speaker:
00:42:39
That's his approach.



Speaker:
00:42:40
And I think that's a, that's actually a very feminine approach of being willing



Speaker:
00:42:45
to share the stage, of being willing to share, share, share it all, and, and being



Speaker:
00:42:50
able to point out the good in the other.



Speaker:
00:42:52
That's a beautiful practice.



Speaker:
00:42:54
Hone it and practice it.



Speaker:
00:42:55
And this comes around.



Speaker:
00:42:57
What goes around, comes around.



Speaker:
00:42:59
Yes it does.



Speaker:
00:43:00
That's beautiful.



Speaker:
00:43:01
I love that.



Speaker:
00:43:02
That hopeful gaze.



Speaker:
00:43:03
I know in, I think, I dunno whether it's love and responsibility



Speaker:
00:43:06
or theology of the body.



Speaker:
00:43:07
He talks about the piece of the interior gaze when we're gazing on one another in,



Speaker:
00:43:11
I guess romantic love that we wouldn't be seeking to take, but that piece



Speaker:
00:43:15
of the interior gaze that appreciates the essence of the other person.



Speaker:
00:43:18
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:43:18
But I love that phrase you've just said there.



Speaker:
00:43:21
Gaze upon another with that hopeful gaze of Christ.



Speaker:
00:43:25
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:43:25
It's beautiful.



Speaker:
00:43:26
It's, God is the absence of conflict.



Speaker:
00:43:28
Mm-hmm.



Speaker:
00:43:29
And so because God is not a loving person or a very nice, per God is



Speaker:
00:43:34
love, it's the absence of conflict.



Speaker:
00:43:36
What, what the, the destroyer, the, the tempter, the, the devil here



Speaker:
00:43:40
is constantly putting this, this division and this competition, and



Speaker:
00:43:44
this, you, you know, we all feel it.



Speaker:
00:43:46
This putting down, that's all, that's all from the devil.



Speaker:
00:43:49
That's, that's the destroyer and the tempter.



Speaker:
00:43:51
What we're looking for is this loving gaze, a loving, expecting, uh, in this,



Speaker:
00:43:57
in that hopeful gaze of saying, it's okay.



Speaker:
00:44:01
It's okay.



Speaker:
00:44:02
And then that is what creates this deep touch inside of people.



Speaker:
00:44:08
And I'm not saying that you should go into your.



Speaker:
00:44:11
You know, grocery store.



Speaker:
00:44:13
But if you have a grocery store at home and start to talk to people



Speaker:
00:44:16
about Jesus in that way right away, that's not what he does.



Speaker:
00:44:18
But that's not how he works.



Speaker:
00:44:19
I'm, I'm sure Paul didn't do it that way either.



Speaker:
00:44:21
Mm-hmm.



Speaker:
00:44:22
Just love them, you know what I mean?



Speaker:
00:44:24
That gaze just love them and they will turn to, in my entire time with John Paul,



Speaker:
00:44:29
he never told me what to do in that sense.



Speaker:
00:44:32
He gave me the rosary and says, even there, he says,



Speaker:
00:44:36
This is my favorite prayer.



Speaker:
00:44:37
Prayer.



Speaker:
00:44:38
Try it.



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00:44:39
It's like an opening invitation.



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00:44:41
Yeah, it's an invitation.



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00:44:42
He's never ever told me what to do.



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00:44:44
Even when I left, uh, he was sort of surprised that I was leaving and so on.



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00:44:49
Um, and, and you know, God in this sense doesn't do that either.



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00:44:53
That God gives us his free will and it's an invitation, but it's



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00:44:57
this total absence of this kind of putting down, you know what I mean?



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00:45:02
Yes.



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00:45:03
Yes, and I think that's where, where we can practice what, what John Paul did.



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00:45:07
This is why there were millions of people in a, in a place and they reacted to him.



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00:45:12
They really reacted to the Holy Spirit.



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00:45:14
Yes.



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00:45:15
And he really did embody and carry the Holy Spirit in such a beautiful way.



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00:45:19
I remember many years ago when I was in grade six, actually, my dad owned a



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00:45:22
Christian bookshop here in our hometown, and one of the women was able to get



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00:45:26
him a ticket when the Pope came to Canberra for a mass and it was in the



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00:45:29
front row and his motorcade went past us and he just stopped and he just looked.



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00:45:35
And it truly felt like he was gazing into your own spirit.



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00:45:39
Exactly.



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00:45:39
Your own souls.



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00:45:40
That's the one I, you know, I've done so many years, so, so I, I was serving there,



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00:45:44
I left in 89, so that was a long time ago.



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00:45:48
Yes, yes.



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00:45:49
You don't believe how many people I've met who have the very same impression



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00:45:53
of John Paul, the very same experience as I had where I had him right in front



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00:45:56
of me and they were one in a million.



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00:45:58
And the exact same thing happens.



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00:46:00
And this is exactly on the level.



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00:46:02
This is the same experience.



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00:46:04
And I think if you, if we can sum that up, it's really that what he



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00:46:07
gives you is what Christ gives us.



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00:46:09
And this deep longing is to be seen, known and loved for who we are.



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00:46:13
Yeah.



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00:46:14
Not what we do.



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00:46:15
And I, I think that's, it's so important that firstly, and I'm say you're a man



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00:46:19
and I'm a woman, but as women listening, but all human persons like, we have to sit



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00:46:24
before the Lord and we have to receive.



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00:46:26
From him, that identity and, and him hear him say to us, you are the beloved.



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00:46:32
My favorite rests on you.



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00:46:33
And only after we receive our identity Yeah.



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00:46:36
Then can we receive our mission and, and our vocation.



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00:46:39
It's, it's being before doing.



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00:46:42
Yes, it is be first.



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00:46:45
And that's be the beloved daughter.



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00:46:48
Mm-hmm.



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00:46:48
Be, you know, redeemed by Christ.



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00:46:52
And then deduce what needs to be done afterward.



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00:46:55
What does the person, what does the, the daughter of cry of God do?



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00:46:59
What, what does she do?



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00:47:00
But first B, right?



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00:47:02
And I think that's something we need to translate into our business



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00:47:05
world as well, to say first B.



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00:47:07
And then do you basically, In a sense on the business side, you



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00:47:11
have to fake it until you become it.



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00:47:13
You make it.



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00:47:14
I like that, but always do it, but always do it out of the being conviction.



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00:47:19
Mm-hmm.



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00:47:19
To say is what I want to be and who I want to be.



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00:47:21
Is that a wholesome thing?



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00:47:23
Yeah, that's, that's the discernment.



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00:47:25
But then of course, you're not gonna know all the skills and everything right away.



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00:47:28
That's the part of where we're, we're actually the.



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00:47:31
The tempter is trying to tell us, well, you're not good at this.



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00:47:34
That, see, there's that judgment again.



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00:47:36
Mm-hmm.



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00:47:36
So, no, you can run anything.



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00:47:38
So it's first, determine the being.



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00:47:40
Who do I want to be?



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00:47:41
And then start to do, this is why I'm saying all you do right now is one action.



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00:47:45
Just take the next step.



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00:47:46
And if the next step is just to do some research, then let that be good enough.



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00:47:51
And then let the next step, one step.



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00:47:54
Don't, don't climb the whole mountain with one step.



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00:47:57
Yes, absolutely.



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00:47:58
And but I think one of the traps for many women is actually around this



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00:48:01
area and mindset of perfectionism.



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00:48:03
Yeah.



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00:48:03
That we feel like we need to get all the things sorted out before we take action.



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00:48:07
And I love this saying is just take imperfect action because in



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00:48:11
taking those steps, it will become clear whether you keep going or



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00:48:14
whether you need to change path.



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00:48:16
Exactly.



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00:48:16
But we are called, you know, Jonah Arks says, act and God will act.



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00:48:19
And it's so important.



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00:48:21
Just to be taking those steps and, and moving the needle



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00:48:23
forward in our life every day.



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00:48:25
So I would say starting with prayer.



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00:48:26
Yeah.



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00:48:27
Even if it's, if you can't get an hour before the blessed sacrament, five minutes



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00:48:30
with the word of God every morning.



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00:48:32
Yeah.



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00:48:32
Just starts more.



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00:48:33
And this conscious, conscious dedication of, mm-hmm.



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00:48:38
Of, of finding the connection or, or the goods you produce.



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00:48:44
Truly good.



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00:48:45
Are the services you provide, do they do, do these services truly serve.



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00:48:50
And and ask yourself why?



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00:48:53
How am I explaining that?



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00:48:54
Like, why are they truly good and how do they truly serve?



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00:48:58
That's something, that's another thing that John Paul used to love to say, is



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00:49:01
that's something that you get to decide.



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00:49:04
Mm-hmm.



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00:49:04
That's the free will that I teach my students to say, you have to answer



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00:49:09
or the goods you produce truly good.



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00:49:11
Do the services you provide truly serve.



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00:49:13
And they say, well, define good.



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00:49:15
I'm saying you get to decide you, that's your responsibility.



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00:49:18
Form yourself.



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00:49:20
Read the Bible.



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00:49:22
Are you gonna stand in front of God and say, I got it.



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00:49:25
Okay, go ahead.



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00:49:27
Yes.



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00:49:28
Right.



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00:49:28
But you get to decide and then, but you carry the consequences for it.



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00:49:34
Mm-hmm.



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00:49:35
And that's, that's a, that's a tall, or, but that's, That's this drama



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00:49:40
of life, if you wish that we get, I mean we do this in relationships.



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00:49:44
It's this a good relationship.



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00:49:45
Well, you decide obviously, but you carry the consequences.



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00:49:49
Yes, absolutely.



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00:49:51
So just tell me in wrapping up, I guess, um, when you came to leave the Swiss



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00:49:56
Guard, you said that he was surprised.



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00:49:58
I'm interested.



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00:49:59
Did you stay in touch?



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00:50:00
Did you let him know the direction your life took after that moment?



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00:50:05
Kind of.



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00:50:06
Um, so I had the opportunities, uh, after when I got married, I went back



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00:50:11
and I introduced my in-laws to him.



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00:50:13
Um, yeah, so I would just, we, we, once you're a guard, you always



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00:50:16
have access to some degree, um, you know, in the barracks, and



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00:50:20
you of course, you know everybody.



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00:50:21
So, I went back and I got into an audience just where there were other people.



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00:50:25
But then of course he saw me and he came over and I, and I introduced



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00:50:29
him to my, so he met my wife in Rome, but I met her in Rome.



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00:50:32
And so he knew okay, that I, I had this girlfriend and I



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00:50:35
left because of her to America.



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00:50:37
But then I went back and I, I got married and I introduced my in-laws and



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00:50:41
that was, you know, that was wonderful.



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00:50:42
And then, and then the other thing I remember we went on



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00:50:45
Michelle's 30th birthday when she turned 30 on that day, May 14th.



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00:50:51
We went to Rome and we went to greet him and he wished her a happy



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00:50:54
birthday on her 30th birthday.



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00:50:57
Oh, beautiful.



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00:50:57
And um, it was like 10 years after, after we left, or after she left.



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00:51:01
And then I was there when he died.



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00:51:04
Um, it's a long story.



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00:51:06
We don't have time to go into it, but that's a story for another time.



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00:51:08
But I happened to be there, uh, just arriving in Europe



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00:51:12
right when he passed away.



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00:51:13
And I, I was.



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00:51:14
There within 24 hours of him dying, I, I was in front of him, so I remember



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00:51:19
studying, writing one of my papers for, at the John Tu Institute that weekend.



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00:51:23
Mm-hmm.



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00:51:24
Um, and it just made that, that was a Saturday.



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00:51:26
Yeah.



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00:51:26
And it just made the experience of writing my essay just so



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00:51:30
much more profound and deep.



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00:51:32
Yeah.



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00:51:32
Yeah.



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00:51:32
That was, that was an experience.



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00:51:35
Yeah.



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00:51:36
Yes.



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00:51:36
Wow.



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00:51:38
Well, look, Andres, thank you so much.



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00:51:39
Those, uh, could talk to you all day.



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00:51:41
Actually, you're a person after my own heart.



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00:51:44
Um, all of these topics around entrepreneurship and JP two, but



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00:51:48
can you tell me just the titles of two of your books, and then where



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00:51:51
could people find you or these books if they'd like to purchase them?



Speaker:
00:51:54
So, yeah, so the, so I have a website called Andreas.



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00:51:59
Whitmer, uh, dot com, the US I can put that in the show notes.



Speaker:
00:52:03
Yeah.



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00:52:03
And this is the fir the book I just finished.



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00:52:05
The Art of Principled Entrepreneurship, that that's not quite as, as, as JP two.



Speaker:
00:52:13
Well, it has all the JP two theory in there.



Speaker:
00:52:15
True.



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00:52:15
But, but it's a business book.



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00:52:17
This is the book, the Pope and the CEO that I, that I wrote



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00:52:19
about my experience and, and these business, these kinds of business.



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00:52:23
Actually, this is one of the pictures.



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00:52:24
Look, this is when I said goodbye to him.



Speaker:
00:52:28
Oh, wow.



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00:52:29
You're so young.



Speaker:
00:52:31
I know.



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00:52:31
That's what he said.



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00:52:33
This is what, this is why he was surprised.



Speaker:
00:52:35
He's like, where are you going?



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00:52:36
You just got here.



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00:52:37
But to me, two years was an eternity.



Speaker:
00:52:39
And for him it was like he just, you just got here.



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00:52:41
Where you going?



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00:52:43
And um, and then I also, I'd love to share with everybody watching



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00:52:46
this, um, the, the Gospel of Work is an eight part video series.



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00:52:50
I just developed.



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00:52:52
And I, I'll give you the link and we can maybe put that in there.



Speaker:
00:52:54
Yes, it's free.



Speaker:
00:52:55
You just register.



Speaker:
00:52:56
So, so we see how many people are seeing it and from where to get some indication,



Speaker:
00:53:00
but um, That is on scca center.com.



Speaker:
00:53:04
But well, I'll promote that because I, I think that's just fantastic cuz some



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00:53:07
of our work that we do, especially for women, sometimes it's, it's hidden work.



Speaker:
00:53:12
It's unseen, it's difficult, it's monotonous.



Speaker:
00:53:16
But this theology of work, I mean, just to have that different mindset,



Speaker:
00:53:19
I think so much of the time, if we can shift our mindset Yeah.



Speaker:
00:53:22
It can change our whole experience.



Speaker:
00:53:25
Yeah.



Speaker:
00:53:25
I'd love to share all that with you.



Speaker:
00:53:27
I'm, I'm also doing, I mean, on social media, I.



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00:53:30
Promote things on, on Facebook and uh, my favorite is really



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00:53:34
LinkedIn because that's yes, sort of the most straightforward thing.



Speaker:
00:53:36
But I also do, you know, all the others.



Speaker:
00:53:39
I have a team who, who deals with that, so.



Speaker:
00:53:40
Fantastic.



Speaker:
00:53:41
Well, I'll put all of the links in the show notes.



Speaker:
00:53:43
Thank you so much for joining us, and God bless your beautiful work.



Speaker:
00:53:46
Thank you, Karen.



Speaker:
00:53:47
Well, I'm not sure about you, but that conversation was really insightful



Speaker:
00:53:51
and I took so much away from it, and I hope and pray that you did too.



Speaker:
00:53:55
If you'd like to find out more about his work, you can visit his website,



Speaker:
00:53:58
andrea slash vidmark.com, and I will place the link in the show notes.



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00:54:03
Ladies, if you've liked this episode, can I ask you to do me a huge favor



Speaker:
00:54:07
and head on over to the podcast platform that you're listening to



Speaker:
00:54:10
and leave a review and a rating?



Speaker:
00:54:12
This really helps.



Speaker:
00:54:12
To support the work of the Genius Podcast, and I would be most grateful if this



Speaker:
00:54:17
episode stirred something within your spirit where you are like, I just want



Speaker:
00:54:21
to discover what my unique gifts are.



Speaker:
00:54:24
I don't even know where I'm called to serve, let alone what my gifts are.



Speaker:
00:54:27
Then ladies, I'd love to invite you to come and join me in this next cohort



Speaker:
00:54:31
of the Catholic Women's Masterclass.



Speaker:
00:54:33
In this masterclass, we take you through a four month journey of



Speaker:
00:54:37
restoration, renewal, and transformation.



Speaker:
00:54:40
And part of this towards the end is really doing an inventory.



Speaker:
00:54:44
And two of the modules at the end of this masterclass deal with exactly



Speaker:
00:54:48
what we've been talking about in today's episode on the podcast where



Speaker:
00:54:51
we really take inventory of your gifts.



Speaker:
00:54:54
We help you to unearth and discover the dreams and the desires of your heart,



Speaker:
00:54:58
and where the Lord is calling you to show up in contribution and service.



Speaker:
00:55:02
Of those in your world.



Speaker:
00:55:03
So ladies, if you would like to find out about that masterclass,



Speaker:
00:55:07
you can visit the website, the masterclass page, www.geniusproject.co.



Speaker:
00:55:12
Or you can send me an email, karen genius project.co, and I'd be very



Speaker:
00:55:16
happy to either jump on a call or to respond to your question.



Speaker:
00:55:20
This journey has been truly transformative for the women



Speaker:
00:55:23
who have gone through the mass.



Speaker:
00:55:24
To class, and I would love for you to join us in our July intake.



Speaker:
00:55:27
Until next week, ladies, have a beautiful week.



Speaker:
00:55:30
God bless you, and start discovering your gifts.