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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
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Speaker 2: Podcasts.
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Speaker 3: Radio.
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Speaker 4: News.
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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. Reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead. With insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance, and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. With Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck.
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Speaker 5: I want to bring in Christine Aquino because she oversees the Markets Live blog here at Bloomberg. And I would imagine you had an incredibly busy day just going through these numbers before we bring you in, Christine. Taking a look at the equity markets, the S & P 500 fell 1.8%, the Nasdaq Composite down 2.9%, the Dow down a little over 1%. How do you explain today's sell-off?
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Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, Tim, the explanation eludes many of.
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Speaker 3: Us watching markets today because, you know, before today, the explanation was that, oh, well, this is just a rotation, right?
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Speaker 1: We've seen this before.
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Speaker 3: This has actually been happening beneath the surface, even though the index level moves haven't necessarily shown it. We've seen investors kind of gone back and forth out of tech and to markets.
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Speaker 1: Non-tech sectors, and then back again.
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Speaker 3: And then today, that theory just went out the window because everything was selling off. I mean, even, I was looking at the equal weight S & P 500 earlier. It was still in the green at the beginning of the session. That fell by the wayside, by the close. And so now it's kind of, the question is, a broad sell-off?
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Speaker 1: Is it afoot?
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Speaker 6: Also.
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Speaker 7: That's the question I have as well.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 1: Well, the VIX ended up closing.
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Speaker 6: So it closes around 4.15, 15 minutes after.
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Speaker 1: Oh, I did not know that. Yes, exactly. So it closed below 20.
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Speaker 6: It was a 19 spot four there. So even though we saw it spike around 24, 25 earlier today, we did see, we were talking about this earlier, that volatility in some of it coming in toward the closing bell. So whenever you're speaking with your sources, whether they're watching price technicians, what do they think that means for like the setup potentially? Does that bode well if you're going into Monday?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, very interesting too, Jess, because again, right, even in volatility markets, there's so much going on beneath the surface that the index.
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Speaker 1: Moves aren't necessarily reflecting.
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Speaker 6: Those micro levels.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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Speaker 3: And we're seeing kind of a lot of hedging to one side or the other beneath that surface. And so, you know, what that's telling me is, you know, there's not one kind of, macro or catalyst, one big catalyst that's moving everything. There's a lot of kind of different little things that investors are responding to. And that's where we're not necessarily kind of seeing those big index moves apart from today that we've seen. And moving forward, that really, I think maybe creates a little bit more bifurcation in markets, right? And that's kind of the big question, the existential question that we're trying to get at is, what's going to separate the winners and losers now heading into next week?
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Speaker 1: From the earnings perspective, was it cash?
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Speaker 3: And then just on a broad markets perspective.
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Speaker 7: Is it, right?
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Speaker 5: I mean, we might have to have this conversation with you on Tuesday after we get from Apple. Because that could be one that shows us that, okay, maybe investors are continuing to, at least right now, award companies, their favorite companies that are not spending so much on CapEx.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 3: I mean, that seems to have become the sticking point now in this earnings season, right? Because even though we've seen still kind of a healthy set of results from the big tech companies, but it really is all about that cash flow now, that CapEx figure, and whether they're showing enough to justify how much they're spending on AI. Now, Apple, though, I'm kind of interested in how their push toward hardware and products is going to fare when we're in this environment where affordability is also an issue.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, but look at how quickly they sold out, and we don't know the exact inventory of the foldable phones.
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Speaker 7: Because it's a $ 2, 000 phone.
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Speaker 4: That's true.
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Speaker 5: You have to be at a certain part of the K to drop 2K on smart phones.
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Speaker 1: That's right, yeah.
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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, perhaps the K-shaped economy is going to help them in this case, catering to Doza, the premium.
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Speaker 1: Part of the K.
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Speaker 7: Stay with us.
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Speaker 5: More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. Okay, a lot of stocks lower, but shares of Intercontinental Exchange, the parent of the New York Stock Exchange, up today and up more than 9% in the last two days. The company having the best two-day run going all the way back to March of 2020. This after ICE's third quarter adjusted earnings per share beat the average analyst estimate. And then in the wake of the print yesterday, we get news that seven analysts who cover the company raised their price targets by an average of five and a half percent.
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Speaker 7: That's according to data from Bloomberg.
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Speaker 5: On top of that, our colleague Kat Doherty broke the news that ICE has joined forces with one of the market operators behind the offshore crypto trading platform Hyperliquid as it seeks to bring perpetual futures products into U.S. regulated markets. For more and for an exclusive interview, we're joined by Jeff Sprecher. He's the founder, chair, and CEO of Intercontinental Exchange. He joins us here at Bloomberg headquarters in New York. Jeff, good to see you again.
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Speaker 8: Welcome.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, and you, Tim. And Jess.
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Speaker 5: We're going to get to everything that you guys are doing at ICE with Perpetual Futures. But before we do that, I just want you to weigh in on the markets today because the NASDAQ 100 down more than 4%. The S & P is down more than 2.2%. Worst days in months. What's your view there?
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Speaker 9: You know, markets... climb a wall of worry. And so it feels like we've had an unbelievable year in the AI trade, saspocalypse, and a lot of inputs into the market. It feels like this is something that has to happen, a retrenchment before it can continue to go up. But it's just part of being a long-term investor is tolerating it.
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Speaker 6: Well, you're joking about running the casino. Whenever you're speaking with clients, how do they feel right now? What are their questions towards you? What are the top questions, top concerns?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, well, we focus a lot on new companies trying to go public. And we've had, I think, 73 companies go public on the New York Stock Exchange so far this year, more than all of last year. But now there's a retrenchment. What you're talking about is... has bankers and others saying, let's let things settle down before we take new companies public.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, we'll see how long this goes on. I mean, what do you think?
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Speaker 9: Hard to know, but I don't have to know.
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Speaker 5: Well, let's talk a little bit about the way you're diversifying things over at Intercontinental Exchange. ICE and Trade XYZ are planning a new market for trading perps. As part of this, you're taking a stake in Trade.xyz as part of the agreement. Billionaire Stan Druckenmiller, also investing. in trade xyz it's a big push into retail for you why do you want to bring perpetual futures products into u.s regulated markets.
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Speaker 9: Well you know i was invited uh when the president was trying to push the crypto bill through congress i was invited to press conference he did and he actually asked me to stand next to him and uh.
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Speaker 5: You you guys have a relationship that goes back years which you know your wife is also.
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Speaker 9: My wife is in his administration is a cabinet member and uh And I'm a Mar-a-Lago member, so anyway, I've actually paid him money. I was standing next to him, and you guys probably are used to this, but there was a gaggle of reporters that were staring us down and microphones and people jostling, other than your Tyler Kendall, who was lovely. But it's kind of this crazy thing, and so I didn't know what to do. I took a half a step away from him so that I wouldn't be in the shot, and I just stared at, script as he was weaving around. And I looked over there and I saw that it said, we're going to bring hyperliquid to the United States and regulate them. And I walked out of there and said, okay, we should do that. So just as an entrepreneur, I just saw an opportunity. I befriended the founders of these companies and went to them and said, we can help.
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Speaker 5: So talk a little bit more about that because, like you said, the deal has been in the works. You began speaking with Hyperliquid and TradeXYZ some months ago. TradeXYZ's founder is known only by Shoku to most people.
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Speaker 7: Take us there.
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Speaker 5: How did you get comfortable partnering with and investing in an organization whose leadership team is entirely anonymous?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, and I would also tell you that Hyperliquid, there's two founders and one who I know also has a similar pseudonym. It's part of the ethos of this crypto community. And what the government's saying, starting with the president on down, and what you're seeing in Binance yesterday, is, hey, we have to get these platforms into the United States, get some regulatory oversight, get some accountability and sustainability into these businesses. And so You know, it is a bit of the Wild West, and I'm an old guy that's been in the industry for a long time, and I was like, okay, I understand the guardrails. I can help you guys.
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Speaker 6: Well, talk to us more about that, too, because you've said these products can be addictive, but then at the same time won't cannibalize your existing products, saying their current clients are mostly institutional, whereas when it comes to perpetual futures, those are more on the retail side of that. So make the case for investors who might be concerned that this could cannibalize some of your existing products.
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Speaker 4: Why won't it?
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Speaker 9: It's a great question, and I think investors are asking us that question, honestly. We run the world's largest energy exchange, and the average hold in our energy exchange is six months or longer. If you look at Perpetual Futures oil on these platforms, the average hold is 12 hours, okay? It's not even a day. So these are people that are just saying, I think oil's gonna go up or down, or I think there could be a conflict in the Middle East, or something that would be an input to the market. That just won't work for utilities and oil companies and people that are trying to lay off risk to make long-term investments. So I do think the two are separate. They're highly correlated. But I don't think the average PERP investor really wants to– to deal crossing with a one-year, 10-year contract with a large oil company, and a large oil company isn't going to be in there for 12 hours.
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Speaker 7: You see the audiences as totally distinct.
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Speaker 9: I do. I mean, they may merge together, and that's partly why we want to be involved in this. But at this point in time, it's just so different trading behavior.
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Speaker 5: I feel like we can't talk about this in a vacuum, because Kalshi just announced this new round yesterday. A billion dollars raised, $ 80 billion, $ 40 billion valuation, yeah. I mean, it's hard to keep track at this point. It launched Perpetual Futures just a.
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Speaker 7: Few months ago.
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Speaker 5: The business is at over $ 80 billion in volume, over 500,000 traders.
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Speaker 7: Is this partnership ICE's effort to catch up?
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Speaker 9: Well, we're a major investor in PolyMarket, which is also a direct competitor to Calchi. But no, it was really, you know, there's a technology shift going on. There's a trading behavior shift, and we just want to be a part of it. it's not in our DNA. I mean, you know, we're dealing with, at the New York Stock Exchange, everybody who's there is a major broker-dealer, all the brand names that you would know. And in the oil industry, it's all, you know, you and I will never buy a barrel of oil. But here you have this new cohort that's, you know, rabidly trading, and we just didn't want to ignore it.
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Speaker 6: Terry Duffy over at CME had said he's been very concerned when it comes to the rise of perpetual futures because giving retails access to what he said could potentially be excessive levels of risk.
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Speaker 1: Is he wrong? Would you agree with that?
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Speaker 9: I partly agree with Terry, which is that these products need to be regulated. And I think the CME group that he leads has said we think the CFTC should be the regulator. The CFTC itself has said we think we should be the regulator. So the CME and the government agree that these should be regulated. There's a disagreement about the actual details of that regulation. My own view is it will sort itself out. These are new markets. Some things will go wrong. Some challenges will appear. Regulators are going to have to deal with it. But I've seen that time and time again having started the business. And so we're a voice of reason, I think, in terms of being one of the most highly regulated exchanges in the world.
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Speaker 5: How are the talks with regulators and your team going right now on this?
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Speaker 9: I think they're happy that we have been able to attract TradeXYZ and Hype to come to the U.S. to set themselves up. We're also an investor in OKEx.
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Speaker 8: Yeah.
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Speaker 9: Which I would say to you is probably the second largest exchange after Binance. We're also working with them to bring them into the U.S. The nice thing about these crypto entrepreneurs is they do have a mindset that if you really want to be global, you can't ignore the United States. These are the deepest, biggest capital markets. And so they're working with us to help them navigate how to come over and get regulated.
00:13:26
Speaker 7: Is this all.
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Speaker 5: about making it one step closer to 24-7 equity trading?
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Speaker 9: It is, yeah. The thing that the crypto guys have done, and it's what Binance is dealing with right now, is they've figured out how to move capital over the internet, whereas traditional finance moves capital on private networks, but it's closed on the weekend. So the stable coins and the crypto tokenized deposits have sort of taken the place of the banking system But it is vulnerable, as we see. So we are working with the big banks to work on how we can move money when the banking system would otherwise be closed, because there is a demand around the world.
00:14:09
Speaker 5: Can you give us a prediction on when you think we will see 24-7 equity trading?
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Speaker 9: We're launching in December 23 by 5. And I think that'll give everybody a first glimpse of, okay, what is the non... What is the Asian interest in U.S. equities in a traditional platform? And I think it'll go from there.
00:14:33
Speaker 7: Stay with us.
00:14:34
Speaker 5: More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. Every day is a good day to have Jess on the program.
00:14:45
Speaker 7: Today, a particularly good one.
00:14:47
Speaker 5: I was a little surprised by the action that we saw just at the end of the session, where oftentimes at the end of the month, we will see more volatility.
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Speaker 7: But we actually saw... We saw a lot of volatility today, but we saw.
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Speaker 6: Stocks come in from those lows. Technicians, from a price perspective, would think that that would be an optimistic sign when you're going into next week. I was mentioning those low volatility versus high beta. Those were the best for low vol this month in a couple of decades here, but we'll have to see how that shakes out. We were just talking about Apple reporting after the bell on Monday and obviously not getting hit as hard as some of these other... AI-related type names today. So usually it kind of acts as its own sort of haven. And it seemed even though it was lower today, maybe it's still working out there.
00:15:32
Speaker 5: Well, speaking of stuff that's getting hit hard, I kind of would expect Bitcoin to get hit harder on a day like today. Bitcoin right now down about 2.5%. The reason why I would say I would expect it to be hit harder is is because in the past, when you've seen security incidents, you've seen a deeper and a bigger sell-off. The sell-off and the security incident we're talking about is the biggest heist in crypto history. It's just unfolded. Hackers siphoned off about $ 6. 3 billion from Binance, the world's largest crypto trading platform, the biggest heist that the digital asset has ever faced. The president actually just in the last few minutes weighing in on this Binance hack, he says, quote, we're looking at the Binance hack it was a hack and that Binance says they have it under control.
00:16:18
Speaker 8: Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker 6: So it's going to be really key just to see, I mean, so many complexities here as far as like who could be behind it, where's the money.
00:16:26
Speaker 2: What's next?
00:16:26
Speaker 6: So many questions regarding how this all shakes up and the lack of regulation when it comes to the crypto market.
00:16:32
Speaker 5: Well, Muyao Shen has some answers. She's Bloomberg News crypto reporter. She joins us this afternoon. Muyao, I know you've been up for almost 24 hours working on this story as news broke of this late yesterday.
00:16:44
Speaker 7: First, the basics.
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Speaker 5: What do we know about how this happened and what exactly happened to Binance?
00:16:50
Speaker 8: I mean, what a day I've been in crypto today. I would say right now it's still very early to figure out what's really going on. I think based on what Binance mentioned, early investigations Points to one engineer's compromised laptop as a way in for the hackers. And we also know so far it is North Koreans who's behind this hack.
00:17:10
Speaker 7: So compromised in what sense? Do we know?
00:17:12
Speaker 5: Was it physically compromised, like somebody physically got hold of this laptop? Or there was a security vulnerability that allowed a bad actor to get access to the laptop virtually and then siphon off the crypto that way?
00:17:26
Speaker 8: We don't have more details on that. But I think what Binance is so far, it's much more complicated than just a compromised laptop. I feel like right now, if you're just saying like one compromised laptop that leads to a hack, that will make the security of Binance itself look too vulnerable, I think, to the majority of people who are using this.
00:17:46
Speaker 1: So where's the money? That's a good question.
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Speaker 8: So as you know, The good thing about having blockchain is that you can track a lot of things on chain real time. So right now we know hackers took about $ 6. 3 billion from Binance. The good news is that almost half of it is being frozen by companies involved, such as Heather and Circle. So the stablecoin company is behind USDT and USDC. And the other half of, I think, the majority that are being converted into cryptocurrencies that cannot be frozen, such as Ether.
00:18:24
Speaker 5: What I find so notable, even though we're seeing Bitcoin below $ 77, 000 as this Binance hack shakes crypto, is that we're not actually seeing a bigger sell-off here. This seems, dare I say, relatively contained when you look at sort of the macro impact of this.
00:18:39
Speaker 8: Yes, I think in the past when we see really bad headlines around crypto, you see the markets really falling to, I think, much lower than what we're seeing today. I think a big part of this is that if you look at the data, $ 6 billion is a huge number. But in reality, what's happening is like the half of it is being frozen and Binance promised the users going to be made full after this event. I think the market in general expects that Binance has the kind of money to cover all of that. That's why I think people, broadly speaking, are pretty optimistic so far.
00:19:11
Speaker 1: So what exactly happens next?
00:19:15
Speaker 8: So right now, people still cannot withdraw money from Binance. I think Binance expects that will happen in just a few days. So I think the next thing to watch is what's going to happen once the withdrawal starts opening, how many withdrawals Binance is going to see, how much offload is going to happen on Binance, and how that's going to be handled by the company.
00:19:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, Muya, you wrote about this with Vildana earlier, and it's the idea of exposing the vulnerabilities in this asset, this cryptocurrency. I mean, it feels like every few weeks we're hearing about some sort of crypto security incident hundreds of millions of dollars uh drained from bit get uh tampering involving ledger devices also led to millions of dollars in losses these ledger devices are the ones that you know we're supposed to keep on our person and and be more you know be be safer like this idea of cold storage What's going.
00:20:10
Speaker 7: On right now?
00:20:12
Speaker 8: I think a big part of the concern is around how good AI has become and hackers are using AI to really, I think, take advantage of the fact that, you know, crypto itself, as I said earlier, everyone can track how much money you have on chain. I think it makes an easy target for hackers. So I think the lesson here is that no one is really safe in this environment and people need to invest more money and resources into security on crypto.
00:20:37
Speaker 4: So what else are you.
00:20:38
Speaker 6: Digging into for this as far as what we could potentially expect in the next few days?
00:20:44
Speaker 8: So I noticed Tim earlier mentioned about potentially ETF flows because now people don't want to hold their money in like your self-custody wallets or even crypto exchanges anymore. Maybe ETF is where you go. I do, to some degree, I do agree with that because so far we have not, like, I mean, knock on the wood that so far there's no half side, including like involving ETF issuers. But again, no one is safe. I think if we have concentrated money included in Bitcoin ETFs, is that a good thing? I'm not sure.
00:21:14
Speaker 7: Yeah, you raise such a good point.
00:21:17
Speaker 5: I wish I could take credit for the thought of the Bitcoin ETFs, but I have to give all credit to Eric Balchunas and James Safer writing just in recent months about the vulnerabilities in actually holding crypto yourself or holding it on an exchange versus having it as an ETF. They argue that's sort of the bull case for that way to get crypto exposure.
00:21:36
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think we'll see next week, just looking at the number to see if people are putting more their money, converting more their Bitcoin to ETFs.
00:21:43
Speaker 5: Muya, it brings up another point, and that's sort of the constant narrative that we've had over the last almost four years at this point. Since the introduction of ChatGPT, some of the retail money that has typically gone to crypto assets is instead going to AI.
00:21:58
Speaker 7: What are you seeing there?
00:22:00
Speaker 8: I think that's still happening. If you look at broadly crypto speaking, every crypto company, including Binance here, right, like they're offering products that's beyond just crypto. Now we can trade stocks, commodity on chain or on crypto exchanges as well. I think that's really just shows like where the retail money is going these days in crypto.
00:22:22
Speaker 7: Stay with us.
00:22:23
Speaker 5: More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. This Sunday here in New York City, 60,000 runners. Oh, it's the greatest day to be in the city. We're going to see spectators shutting down huge swaths of the city for the marathon. It's all part of the enduring running boom. since the pandemic. And our next guest knows all about that running boom. We're joined here on set by Brooks CEO, Dan Sheridan. Dan, welcome back to the program.
00:22:52
Speaker 7: How are you?
00:22:52
Speaker 3: Thanks.
00:22:52
Speaker 4: Great to be back. I love being in the city for this weekend.
00:22:56
Speaker 5: I feel like you have to come here more than just every end of October.
00:23:00
Speaker 4: I get here, but this is by far my favorite weekend in the city.
00:23:03
Speaker 5: Well, I think you speak for a lot of people saying that. I think a lot of people share that sentiment. I want to talk about the Brooks business because something interesting is continuing to happen with you guys. We should note you're owned by Berkshire Hathaway, so you don't have to give all the sales figures that a public company would. But we're seeing the industry face a lot of pressure, whether we're talking about athleisure or footwear. Yet you guys continue to grow. How are you doing it?
00:23:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so we're in our 13th consecutive quarter of growth.
00:23:32
Speaker 7: We're growing about 12% year to date.
00:23:34
Speaker 4: And the story is one where the consumer that we target is super healthy right now. The category's healthy. We chose a great category and a great consumer. And around the world, it's rooted in participation. So we track participation rates at races. This weekend's a great example, 60,000 people. I think 250,000 people tried to get into the race. So the sport is healthy, which is our focus, is the sport of run.
00:24:03
Speaker 6: Well, that's interesting that you're saying you're seeing a strong consumer, but what about when it comes to macro conditions, when it comes specifically more towards shoe production? What are you seeing there?
00:24:13
Speaker 7: I think the production is pretty steady for us.
00:24:16
Speaker 4: The trade policies that have come into our category have been disruptive to say the least, but we got our arms around it.
00:24:22
Speaker 1: How did you do that with supply chain constraints?
00:24:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we took a full supply chain approach to it.
00:24:27
Speaker 7: So we worked with our partners in Asia.
00:24:29
Speaker 4: We worked with our logistic partners in In transportation, we worked with the front end of the house to kind of mitigate that risk across our business. And, you know, the supply chain in our industry is pretty resilient. If you think back to COVID, it was very resilient there, too, and it weathered the storm here.
00:24:47
Speaker 7: Your old boss was Warren Buffett. Your new boss is Greg Abel.
00:24:50
Speaker 8: Yep.
00:24:50
Speaker 7: Any difference in their management strategy?
00:24:52
Speaker 4: You know, you and I have talked about this in the past. You know, what's amazing about Berkshire is the consistency of leadership. And right now I actually report into Adam Johnson, the CEO of NetJets, and I would tell you. consistent across.
00:25:05
Speaker 7: How does that work?
00:25:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they reorganized when Warren stepped into the chairman role, and I've been reporting into Adam since the start of the year, and I can tell you it's the same consistent leadership culture that we had under Greg and under Warren. So I think I've got the greatest job in sporting goods because of our ownership structure.
00:25:24
Speaker 7: So it's still hands-off?
00:25:26
Speaker 4: Very hands-off, yeah. We call it autonomy with accountability. Incredible accountability to deliver results and grow the business. But we run our shop and they're there when we need them. And I feel blessed to be within the Berkshire portfolio.
00:25:44
Speaker 6: So how much of the boom has to do with different running clubs, influencers that are in this space right now?
00:25:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would tell you running clubs has always been in this space, but the acceleration of running clubs right now is incredible around the world, by the way, not just in the U.S. So we were in China last year. I ran with one of the great running crews over there called Dark Runners. They run at night on the Shanghai Bonn River. And the universal truths of running are true in every market we go into. They're investing in their health and wellness. They want social connection.
00:26:19
Speaker 5: In the past couple of years that you've come on our program with us, you've talked about the push into China. Give us an update on the China business and if it's exceeding expectations that you put out over the last couple of years.
00:26:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're right on plan in China. We've got a small amount of stores. So in comparison to our competitors, we're still in an emerging market for us. We're growing 40% in China right now. And I'll go back to the runner. The runner, the universal truce of why they're investing in run. They want great product. We deliver that. They want a social community that they can engage with. So we're engaging with the runner. And we're at the center of the run culture in China and it's working.
00:26:57
Speaker 7: Push into lifestyle. Yeah.
00:26:59
Speaker 5: This is, you recently redesigned the Adrenaline GTS 10. Is this part of a bigger push into lifestyle?
00:27:04
Speaker 7: Yeah, look, this.
00:27:05
Speaker 9: Brand is 112 years old.
00:27:05
Speaker 4: Can you believe it?
00:27:06
Speaker 9: We're 112 years old.
00:27:07
Speaker 4: And so we have, a whole host of products in our history that are now relevant in the fashion trend and performance trends. The Adrenaline is one of our best shoes, and the Adrenaline 10 is now a lifestyle product for us. Our strategy there is to meet our consumer where they are in fashion trends and performance trends, and we're having a great time in lifestyle right now.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
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Speaker 2: Podcasts.
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Speaker 3: Radio.
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Speaker 4: News.
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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Businessweek Daily. Reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay ahead. With insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus, global business, finance, and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. With Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck.
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Speaker 5: I want to bring in Christine Aquino because she oversees the Markets Live blog here at Bloomberg. And I would imagine you had an incredibly busy day just going through these numbers before we bring you in, Christine. Taking a look at the equity markets, the S & P 500 fell 1.8%, the Nasdaq Composite down 2.9%, the Dow down a little over 1%. How do you explain today's sell-off?
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Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, Tim, the explanation eludes many of.
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Speaker 3: Us watching markets today because, you know, before today, the explanation was that, oh, well, this is just a rotation, right?
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Speaker 1: We've seen this before.
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Speaker 3: This has actually been happening beneath the surface, even though the index level moves haven't necessarily shown it. We've seen investors kind of gone back and forth out of tech and to markets.
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Speaker 1: Non-tech sectors, and then back again.
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Speaker 3: And then today, that theory just went out the window because everything was selling off. I mean, even, I was looking at the equal weight S & P 500 earlier. It was still in the green at the beginning of the session. That fell by the wayside, by the close. And so now it's kind of, the question is, a broad sell-off?
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Speaker 1: Is it afoot?
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Speaker 6: Also.
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Speaker 7: That's the question I have as well.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 1: Well, the VIX ended up closing.
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Speaker 6: So it closes around 4.15, 15 minutes after.
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Speaker 1: Oh, I did not know that. Yes, exactly. So it closed below 20.
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Speaker 6: It was a 19 spot four there. So even though we saw it spike around 24, 25 earlier today, we did see, we were talking about this earlier, that volatility in some of it coming in toward the closing bell. So whenever you're speaking with your sources, whether they're watching price technicians, what do they think that means for like the setup potentially? Does that bode well if you're going into Monday?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, very interesting too, Jess, because again, right, even in volatility markets, there's so much going on beneath the surface that the index.
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Speaker 1: Moves aren't necessarily reflecting.
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Speaker 6: Those micro levels.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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Speaker 3: And we're seeing kind of a lot of hedging to one side or the other beneath that surface. And so, you know, what that's telling me is, you know, there's not one kind of, macro or catalyst, one big catalyst that's moving everything. There's a lot of kind of different little things that investors are responding to. And that's where we're not necessarily kind of seeing those big index moves apart from today that we've seen. And moving forward, that really, I think maybe creates a little bit more bifurcation in markets, right? And that's kind of the big question, the existential question that we're trying to get at is, what's going to separate the winners and losers now heading into next week?
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Speaker 1: From the earnings perspective, was it cash?
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Speaker 3: And then just on a broad markets perspective.
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Speaker 7: Is it, right?
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Speaker 5: I mean, we might have to have this conversation with you on Tuesday after we get from Apple. Because that could be one that shows us that, okay, maybe investors are continuing to, at least right now, award companies, their favorite companies that are not spending so much on CapEx.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 3: I mean, that seems to have become the sticking point now in this earnings season, right? Because even though we've seen still kind of a healthy set of results from the big tech companies, but it really is all about that cash flow now, that CapEx figure, and whether they're showing enough to justify how much they're spending on AI. Now, Apple, though, I'm kind of interested in how their push toward hardware and products is going to fare when we're in this environment where affordability is also an issue.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, but look at how quickly they sold out, and we don't know the exact inventory of the foldable phones.
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Speaker 7: Because it's a $ 2, 000 phone.
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Speaker 4: That's true.
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Speaker 5: You have to be at a certain part of the K to drop 2K on smart phones.
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Speaker 1: That's right, yeah.
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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, perhaps the K-shaped economy is going to help them in this case, catering to Doza, the premium.
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Speaker 1: Part of the K.
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Speaker 7: Stay with us.
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Speaker 5: More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. Okay, a lot of stocks lower, but shares of Intercontinental Exchange, the parent of the New York Stock Exchange, up today and up more than 9% in the last two days. The company having the best two-day run going all the way back to March of 2020. This after ICE's third quarter adjusted earnings per share beat the average analyst estimate. And then in the wake of the print yesterday, we get news that seven analysts who cover the company raised their price targets by an average of five and a half percent.
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Speaker 7: That's according to data from Bloomberg.
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Speaker 5: On top of that, our colleague Kat Doherty broke the news that ICE has joined forces with one of the market operators behind the offshore crypto trading platform Hyperliquid as it seeks to bring perpetual futures products into U.S. regulated markets. For more and for an exclusive interview, we're joined by Jeff Sprecher. He's the founder, chair, and CEO of Intercontinental Exchange. He joins us here at Bloomberg headquarters in New York. Jeff, good to see you again.
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Speaker 8: Welcome.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, and you, Tim. And Jess.
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Speaker 5: We're going to get to everything that you guys are doing at ICE with Perpetual Futures. But before we do that, I just want you to weigh in on the markets today because the NASDAQ 100 down more than 4%. The S & P is down more than 2.2%. Worst days in months. What's your view there?
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Speaker 9: You know, markets... climb a wall of worry. And so it feels like we've had an unbelievable year in the AI trade, saspocalypse, and a lot of inputs into the market. It feels like this is something that has to happen, a retrenchment before it can continue to go up. But it's just part of being a long-term investor is tolerating it.
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Speaker 6: Well, you're joking about running the casino. Whenever you're speaking with clients, how do they feel right now? What are their questions towards you? What are the top questions, top concerns?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, well, we focus a lot on new companies trying to go public. And we've had, I think, 73 companies go public on the New York Stock Exchange so far this year, more than all of last year. But now there's a retrenchment. What you're talking about is... has bankers and others saying, let's let things settle down before we take new companies public.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, we'll see how long this goes on. I mean, what do you think?
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Speaker 9: Hard to know, but I don't have to know.
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Speaker 5: Well, let's talk a little bit about the way you're diversifying things over at Intercontinental Exchange. ICE and Trade XYZ are planning a new market for trading perps. As part of this, you're taking a stake in Trade.xyz as part of the agreement. Billionaire Stan Druckenmiller, also investing. in trade xyz it's a big push into retail for you why do you want to bring perpetual futures products into u.s regulated markets.
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Speaker 9: Well you know i was invited uh when the president was trying to push the crypto bill through congress i was invited to press conference he did and he actually asked me to stand next to him and uh.
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Speaker 5: You you guys have a relationship that goes back years which you know your wife is also.
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Speaker 9: My wife is in his administration is a cabinet member and uh And I'm a Mar-a-Lago member, so anyway, I've actually paid him money. I was standing next to him, and you guys probably are used to this, but there was a gaggle of reporters that were staring us down and microphones and people jostling, other than your Tyler Kendall, who was lovely. But it's kind of this crazy thing, and so I didn't know what to do. I took a half a step away from him so that I wouldn't be in the shot, and I just stared at, script as he was weaving around. And I looked over there and I saw that it said, we're going to bring hyperliquid to the United States and regulate them. And I walked out of there and said, okay, we should do that. So just as an entrepreneur, I just saw an opportunity. I befriended the founders of these companies and went to them and said, we can help.
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Speaker 5: So talk a little bit more about that because, like you said, the deal has been in the works. You began speaking with Hyperliquid and TradeXYZ some months ago. TradeXYZ's founder is known only by Shoku to most people.
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Speaker 7: Take us there.
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Speaker 5: How did you get comfortable partnering with and investing in an organization whose leadership team is entirely anonymous?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, and I would also tell you that Hyperliquid, there's two founders and one who I know also has a similar pseudonym. It's part of the ethos of this crypto community. And what the government's saying, starting with the president on down, and what you're seeing in Binance yesterday, is, hey, we have to get these platforms into the United States, get some regulatory oversight, get some accountability and sustainability into these businesses. And so You know, it is a bit of the Wild West, and I'm an old guy that's been in the industry for a long time, and I was like, okay, I understand the guardrails. I can help you guys.
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Speaker 6: Well, talk to us more about that, too, because you've said these products can be addictive, but then at the same time won't cannibalize your existing products, saying their current clients are mostly institutional, whereas when it comes to perpetual futures, those are more on the retail side of that. So make the case for investors who might be concerned that this could cannibalize some of your existing products.
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Speaker 4: Why won't it?
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Speaker 9: It's a great question, and I think investors are asking us that question, honestly. We run the world's largest energy exchange, and the average hold in our energy exchange is six months or longer. If you look at Perpetual Futures oil on these platforms, the average hold is 12 hours, okay? It's not even a day. So these are people that are just saying, I think oil's gonna go up or down, or I think there could be a conflict in the Middle East, or something that would be an input to the market. That just won't work for utilities and oil companies and people that are trying to lay off risk to make long-term investments. So I do think the two are separate. They're highly correlated. But I don't think the average PERP investor really wants to– to deal crossing with a one-year, 10-year contract with a large oil company, and a large oil company isn't going to be in there for 12 hours.
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Speaker 7: You see the audiences as totally distinct.
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Speaker 9: I do. I mean, they may merge together, and that's partly why we want to be involved in this. But at this point in time, it's just so different trading behavior.
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Speaker 5: I feel like we can't talk about this in a vacuum, because Kalshi just announced this new round yesterday. A billion dollars raised, $ 80 billion, $ 40 billion valuation, yeah. I mean, it's hard to keep track at this point. It launched Perpetual Futures just a.
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Speaker 7: Few months ago.
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Speaker 5: The business is at over $ 80 billion in volume, over 500,000 traders.
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Speaker 7: Is this partnership ICE's effort to catch up?
00:11:00
Speaker 9: Well, we're a major investor in PolyMarket, which is also a direct competitor to Calchi. But no, it was really, you know, there's a technology shift going on. There's a trading behavior shift, and we just want to be a part of it. it's not in our DNA. I mean, you know, we're dealing with, at the New York Stock Exchange, everybody who's there is a major broker-dealer, all the brand names that you would know. And in the oil industry, it's all, you know, you and I will never buy a barrel of oil. But here you have this new cohort that's, you know, rabidly trading, and we just didn't want to ignore it.
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Speaker 6: Terry Duffy over at CME had said he's been very concerned when it comes to the rise of perpetual futures because giving retails access to what he said could potentially be excessive levels of risk.
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Speaker 1: Is he wrong? Would you agree with that?
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Speaker 9: I partly agree with Terry, which is that these products need to be regulated. And I think the CME group that he leads has said we think the CFTC should be the regulator. The CFTC itself has said we think we should be the regulator. So the CME and the government agree that these should be regulated. There's a disagreement about the actual details of that regulation. My own view is it will sort itself out. These are new markets. Some things will go wrong. Some challenges will appear. Regulators are going to have to deal with it. But I've seen that time and time again having started the business. And so we're a voice of reason, I think, in terms of being one of the most highly regulated exchanges in the world.
00:12:44
Speaker 5: How are the talks with regulators and your team going right now on this?
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Speaker 9: I think they're happy that we have been able to attract TradeXYZ and Hype to come to the U.S. to set themselves up. We're also an investor in OKEx.
00:13:00
Speaker 8: Yeah.
00:13:01
Speaker 9: Which I would say to you is probably the second largest exchange after Binance. We're also working with them to bring them into the U.S. The nice thing about these crypto entrepreneurs is they do have a mindset that if you really want to be global, you can't ignore the United States. These are the deepest, biggest capital markets. And so they're working with us to help them navigate how to come over and get regulated.
00:13:26
Speaker 7: Is this all.
00:13:28
Speaker 5: about making it one step closer to 24-7 equity trading?
00:13:32
Speaker 9: It is, yeah. The thing that the crypto guys have done, and it's what Binance is dealing with right now, is they've figured out how to move capital over the internet, whereas traditional finance moves capital on private networks, but it's closed on the weekend. So the stable coins and the crypto tokenized deposits have sort of taken the place of the banking system But it is vulnerable, as we see. So we are working with the big banks to work on how we can move money when the banking system would otherwise be closed, because there is a demand around the world.
00:14:09
Speaker 5: Can you give us a prediction on when you think we will see 24-7 equity trading?
00:14:14
Speaker 9: We're launching in December 23 by 5. And I think that'll give everybody a first glimpse of, okay, what is the non... What is the Asian interest in U.S. equities in a traditional platform? And I think it'll go from there.
00:14:33
Speaker 7: Stay with us.
00:14:34
Speaker 5: More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. Every day is a good day to have Jess on the program.
00:14:45
Speaker 7: Today, a particularly good one.
00:14:47
Speaker 5: I was a little surprised by the action that we saw just at the end of the session, where oftentimes at the end of the month, we will see more volatility.
00:14:55
Speaker 7: But we actually saw... We saw a lot of volatility today, but we saw.
00:14:59
Speaker 6: Stocks come in from those lows. Technicians, from a price perspective, would think that that would be an optimistic sign when you're going into next week. I was mentioning those low volatility versus high beta. Those were the best for low vol this month in a couple of decades here, but we'll have to see how that shakes out. We were just talking about Apple reporting after the bell on Monday and obviously not getting hit as hard as some of these other... AI-related type names today. So usually it kind of acts as its own sort of haven. And it seemed even though it was lower today, maybe it's still working out there.
00:15:32
Speaker 5: Well, speaking of stuff that's getting hit hard, I kind of would expect Bitcoin to get hit harder on a day like today. Bitcoin right now down about 2.5%. The reason why I would say I would expect it to be hit harder is is because in the past, when you've seen security incidents, you've seen a deeper and a bigger sell-off. The sell-off and the security incident we're talking about is the biggest heist in crypto history. It's just unfolded. Hackers siphoned off about $ 6. 3 billion from Binance, the world's largest crypto trading platform, the biggest heist that the digital asset has ever faced. The president actually just in the last few minutes weighing in on this Binance hack, he says, quote, we're looking at the Binance hack it was a hack and that Binance says they have it under control.
00:16:18
Speaker 8: Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker 6: So it's going to be really key just to see, I mean, so many complexities here as far as like who could be behind it, where's the money.
00:16:26
Speaker 2: What's next?
00:16:26
Speaker 6: So many questions regarding how this all shakes up and the lack of regulation when it comes to the crypto market.
00:16:32
Speaker 5: Well, Muyao Shen has some answers. She's Bloomberg News crypto reporter. She joins us this afternoon. Muyao, I know you've been up for almost 24 hours working on this story as news broke of this late yesterday.
00:16:44
Speaker 7: First, the basics.
00:16:45
Speaker 5: What do we know about how this happened and what exactly happened to Binance?
00:16:50
Speaker 8: I mean, what a day I've been in crypto today. I would say right now it's still very early to figure out what's really going on. I think based on what Binance mentioned, early investigations Points to one engineer's compromised laptop as a way in for the hackers. And we also know so far it is North Koreans who's behind this hack.
00:17:10
Speaker 7: So compromised in what sense? Do we know?
00:17:12
Speaker 5: Was it physically compromised, like somebody physically got hold of this laptop? Or there was a security vulnerability that allowed a bad actor to get access to the laptop virtually and then siphon off the crypto that way?
00:17:26
Speaker 8: We don't have more details on that. But I think what Binance is so far, it's much more complicated than just a compromised laptop. I feel like right now, if you're just saying like one compromised laptop that leads to a hack, that will make the security of Binance itself look too vulnerable, I think, to the majority of people who are using this.
00:17:46
Speaker 1: So where's the money? That's a good question.
00:17:50
Speaker 8: So as you know, The good thing about having blockchain is that you can track a lot of things on chain real time. So right now we know hackers took about $ 6. 3 billion from Binance. The good news is that almost half of it is being frozen by companies involved, such as Heather and Circle. So the stablecoin company is behind USDT and USDC. And the other half of, I think, the majority that are being converted into cryptocurrencies that cannot be frozen, such as Ether.
00:18:24
Speaker 5: What I find so notable, even though we're seeing Bitcoin below $ 77, 000 as this Binance hack shakes crypto, is that we're not actually seeing a bigger sell-off here. This seems, dare I say, relatively contained when you look at sort of the macro impact of this.
00:18:39
Speaker 8: Yes, I think in the past when we see really bad headlines around crypto, you see the markets really falling to, I think, much lower than what we're seeing today. I think a big part of this is that if you look at the data, $ 6 billion is a huge number. But in reality, what's happening is like the half of it is being frozen and Binance promised the users going to be made full after this event. I think the market in general expects that Binance has the kind of money to cover all of that. That's why I think people, broadly speaking, are pretty optimistic so far.
00:19:11
Speaker 1: So what exactly happens next?
00:19:15
Speaker 8: So right now, people still cannot withdraw money from Binance. I think Binance expects that will happen in just a few days. So I think the next thing to watch is what's going to happen once the withdrawal starts opening, how many withdrawals Binance is going to see, how much offload is going to happen on Binance, and how that's going to be handled by the company.
00:19:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, Muya, you wrote about this with Vildana earlier, and it's the idea of exposing the vulnerabilities in this asset, this cryptocurrency. I mean, it feels like every few weeks we're hearing about some sort of crypto security incident hundreds of millions of dollars uh drained from bit get uh tampering involving ledger devices also led to millions of dollars in losses these ledger devices are the ones that you know we're supposed to keep on our person and and be more you know be be safer like this idea of cold storage What's going.
00:20:10
Speaker 7: On right now?
00:20:12
Speaker 8: I think a big part of the concern is around how good AI has become and hackers are using AI to really, I think, take advantage of the fact that, you know, crypto itself, as I said earlier, everyone can track how much money you have on chain. I think it makes an easy target for hackers. So I think the lesson here is that no one is really safe in this environment and people need to invest more money and resources into security on crypto.
00:20:37
Speaker 4: So what else are you.
00:20:38
Speaker 6: Digging into for this as far as what we could potentially expect in the next few days?
00:20:44
Speaker 8: So I noticed Tim earlier mentioned about potentially ETF flows because now people don't want to hold their money in like your self-custody wallets or even crypto exchanges anymore. Maybe ETF is where you go. I do, to some degree, I do agree with that because so far we have not, like, I mean, knock on the wood that so far there's no half side, including like involving ETF issuers. But again, no one is safe. I think if we have concentrated money included in Bitcoin ETFs, is that a good thing? I'm not sure.
00:21:14
Speaker 7: Yeah, you raise such a good point.
00:21:17
Speaker 5: I wish I could take credit for the thought of the Bitcoin ETFs, but I have to give all credit to Eric Balchunas and James Safer writing just in recent months about the vulnerabilities in actually holding crypto yourself or holding it on an exchange versus having it as an ETF. They argue that's sort of the bull case for that way to get crypto exposure.
00:21:36
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think we'll see next week, just looking at the number to see if people are putting more their money, converting more their Bitcoin to ETFs.
00:21:43
Speaker 5: Muya, it brings up another point, and that's sort of the constant narrative that we've had over the last almost four years at this point. Since the introduction of ChatGPT, some of the retail money that has typically gone to crypto assets is instead going to AI.
00:21:58
Speaker 7: What are you seeing there?
00:22:00
Speaker 8: I think that's still happening. If you look at broadly crypto speaking, every crypto company, including Binance here, right, like they're offering products that's beyond just crypto. Now we can trade stocks, commodity on chain or on crypto exchanges as well. I think that's really just shows like where the retail money is going these days in crypto.
00:22:22
Speaker 7: Stay with us.
00:22:23
Speaker 5: More from Bloomberg Businessweek Daily coming up after this. This Sunday here in New York City, 60,000 runners. Oh, it's the greatest day to be in the city. We're going to see spectators shutting down huge swaths of the city for the marathon. It's all part of the enduring running boom. since the pandemic. And our next guest knows all about that running boom. We're joined here on set by Brooks CEO, Dan Sheridan. Dan, welcome back to the program.
00:22:52
Speaker 7: How are you?
00:22:52
Speaker 3: Thanks.
00:22:52
Speaker 4: Great to be back. I love being in the city for this weekend.
00:22:56
Speaker 5: I feel like you have to come here more than just every end of October.
00:23:00
Speaker 4: I get here, but this is by far my favorite weekend in the city.
00:23:03
Speaker 5: Well, I think you speak for a lot of people saying that. I think a lot of people share that sentiment. I want to talk about the Brooks business because something interesting is continuing to happen with you guys. We should note you're owned by Berkshire Hathaway, so you don't have to give all the sales figures that a public company would. But we're seeing the industry face a lot of pressure, whether we're talking about athleisure or footwear. Yet you guys continue to grow. How are you doing it?
00:23:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, so we're in our 13th consecutive quarter of growth.
00:23:32
Speaker 7: We're growing about 12% year to date.
00:23:34
Speaker 4: And the story is one where the consumer that we target is super healthy right now. The category's healthy. We chose a great category and a great consumer. And around the world, it's rooted in participation. So we track participation rates at races. This weekend's a great example, 60,000 people. I think 250,000 people tried to get into the race. So the sport is healthy, which is our focus, is the sport of run.
00:24:03
Speaker 6: Well, that's interesting that you're saying you're seeing a strong consumer, but what about when it comes to macro conditions, when it comes specifically more towards shoe production? What are you seeing there?
00:24:13
Speaker 7: I think the production is pretty steady for us.
00:24:16
Speaker 4: The trade policies that have come into our category have been disruptive to say the least, but we got our arms around it.
00:24:22
Speaker 1: How did you do that with supply chain constraints?
00:24:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we took a full supply chain approach to it.
00:24:27
Speaker 7: So we worked with our partners in Asia.
00:24:29
Speaker 4: We worked with our logistic partners in In transportation, we worked with the front end of the house to kind of mitigate that risk across our business. And, you know, the supply chain in our industry is pretty resilient. If you think back to COVID, it was very resilient there, too, and it weathered the storm here.
00:24:47
Speaker 7: Your old boss was Warren Buffett. Your new boss is Greg Abel.
00:24:50
Speaker 8: Yep.
00:24:50
Speaker 7: Any difference in their management strategy?
00:24:52
Speaker 4: You know, you and I have talked about this in the past. You know, what's amazing about Berkshire is the consistency of leadership. And right now I actually report into Adam Johnson, the CEO of NetJets, and I would tell you. consistent across.
00:25:05
Speaker 7: How does that work?
00:25:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they reorganized when Warren stepped into the chairman role, and I've been reporting into Adam since the start of the year, and I can tell you it's the same consistent leadership culture that we had under Greg and under Warren. So I think I've got the greatest job in sporting goods because of our ownership structure.
00:25:24
Speaker 7: So it's still hands-off?
00:25:26
Speaker 4: Very hands-off, yeah. We call it autonomy with accountability. Incredible accountability to deliver results and grow the business. But we run our shop and they're there when we need them. And I feel blessed to be within the Berkshire portfolio.
00:25:44
Speaker 6: So how much of the boom has to do with different running clubs, influencers that are in this space right now?
00:25:50
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would tell you running clubs has always been in this space, but the acceleration of running clubs right now is incredible around the world, by the way, not just in the U.S. So we were in China last year. I ran with one of the great running crews over there called Dark Runners. They run at night on the Shanghai Bonn River. And the universal truths of running are true in every market we go into. They're investing in their health and wellness. They want social connection.
00:26:19
Speaker 5: In the past couple of years that you've come on our program with us, you've talked about the push into China. Give us an update on the China business and if it's exceeding expectations that you put out over the last couple of years.
00:26:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're right on plan in China. We've got a small amount of stores. So in comparison to our competitors, we're still in an emerging market for us. We're growing 40% in China right now. And I'll go back to the runner. The runner, the universal truce of why they're investing in run. They want great product. We deliver that. They want a social community that they can engage with. So we're engaging with the runner. And we're at the center of the run culture in China and it's working.
00:26:57
Speaker 7: Push into lifestyle. Yeah.
00:26:59
Speaker 5: This is, you recently redesigned the Adrenaline GTS 10. Is this part of a bigger push into lifestyle?
00:27:04
Speaker 7: Yeah, look, this.
00:27:05
Speaker 9: Brand is 112 years old.
00:27:05
Speaker 4: Can you believe it?
00:27:06
Speaker 9: We're 112 years old.
00:27:07
Speaker 4: And so we have, a whole host of products in our history that are now relevant in the fashion trend and performance trends. The Adrenaline is one of our best shoes, and the Adrenaline 10 is now a lifestyle product for us. Our strategy there is to meet our consumer where they are in fashion trends and performance trends, and we're having a great time in lifestyle right now.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Businessweek Daily Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from 2 to 5 p.m. Eastern on Bloomberg.com, the iHeartRadio app, TuneIn, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.
