Beyond Borders: From Argentina to Poland to Texas—Oscar Macchioni reflects on a life in music

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Welcome back to The Pianopod, everyone. This
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season, we have been exploring creativity and
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connection, conversations with artists who are
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not only performing at the highest level, but
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also rethinking how music lives within communities,
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cultures, and contemporary life. Our guest today,
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Dr. Oscar Macchione, is one of those artists.
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Born in Argentina, shaped by years of study in
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Poland, and now serving as Associate Professor
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of Piano Pedagogy at University of North Texas,
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Dr. Macchione has built a career that moves fluidly
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across borders, musically, intellectually, and
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culturally. A central part of today's conversation
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is his album, Mostly Tangos, Piano Music from
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the Americas. But this is not simply a conversation
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about tango. It becomes a larger discussion about
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identity, artistic labels, repertoire, concert
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life, pedagogy, and how music travels across
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generations and cultures. We also talk about
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composers such as Karol Szymanowski and William
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Bauckham, community engagement in places people
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may not immediately associate with classical
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music, and the role artists and institutions
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can play in creating meaningful human connection.
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This is Season 6, Episode 18 of The Piano Pod
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with Dr. Oscar Macchione. And before we begin,
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I just want to thank all of you for being part
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of this season. We are now entering the final
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three episodes of Season 6, which means we are
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also beginning to look ahead toward Season 7
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this September, Culture and Courage. If you know
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fellow artists, educators, composers, or cultural
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thinkers, you would love to hear featured in
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Season 7. Feel free to nominate guests through
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our website or social media pages. Some of our
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most meaningful conversations have come directly
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from listener recommendations. Oh, and before
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we go, don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube
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channel, follow The Piano Pod on your favorite
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podcast platform, and leave a like, comment,
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or review. Every single follow, share, and subscription
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genuinely helps independent production like this
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continue to grow. Thank you again for listening,
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for sharing, and for helping build this community
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together. And now, my conversation with Dr. Oscar
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Macchione. Please enjoy the show. You are listening
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to The Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest
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minds in the industry about how they are bringing
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the piano into the future and thriving in a complex,
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ever -evolving world. Oscar, welcome to The Piano
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Pod. It's really a pleasure to have you here.
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Where are you joining us from today? I am in
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Denton, Texas. That's outside Dallas, and this
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is where I live. Oh, great. And wonderful. Texas
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has been such a central part of your life and
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work. And I'm really looking forward to exploring
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that part of your life journey with you today.
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And so your former student. Aaron Williams, who
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is a long -term friend of mine, and he is also
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a very big supporter of what I do at the PianoPod,
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recommended that I should reach out to you, and
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I'm so glad I did. And when he spoke about your
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work, what stood out to me was not only your
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work as a pianist and, you know, as a concert
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pianist and recording artist, but also the way
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you built a life that integrates performance
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and teaching and community all together. And
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that's a strong sense of intention in how you
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do and what you do, you know, how you approach
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both music and education and shaping not only
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individual students, but also the environments
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and communities around you. So I'd love to start
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with this question. With all you do, performance,
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pedagogy, and community, At the center of all
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this, what continues to drive your work today,
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meaning mission and passion? You know, through
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my life and through my career, the passion never
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changed. It's always, of course, the music, right?
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But maybe the mission keeps changing a little
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bit through the decades of my career. And I would
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say when I was younger, I was more focused in...
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performing and performing pieces that were not
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common pieces to perform. Now everybody is performing
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unrepresented composers and so on, but I was
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doing this 30 years ago. I was performing full
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programs of Latin American composers. Other people,
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of course, were doing that, but it wasn't as
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the fad of being doing those things at that time.
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And now, probably for the last 10 years of my
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last decade, it's mostly a focus in teaching,
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in passing everything I know to the students.
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And I'm really in a privileged position right
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now at the University of North Texas. great university
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with great faculty and great students. You know,
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it's the biggest public university in the United
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States. We have about 1600 majors in music only.
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No way, really? Yes. So there are bigger universities,
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but there are private universities. This is a
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public university. And, you know, it's more recognized
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the level of the faculty and the level of the
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students. So I came here. two and a half years
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ago just to teach piano pedagogy and how to teach
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those very high level performers that we have
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doing doctoral degrees how to teach because it's
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not the same performing than teaching you know
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there are two different worlds and sometimes
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they do not complement each other so anyway in
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this past decade or so my focus is mostly in
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teaching i to still perform and record, but that's
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not the main focus right now as it was, you know,
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20, 30 years ago. Okay, well, thank you. I would
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love to talk more about your approach to teaching,
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and that's very, as you said, now your focus,
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and also Aaron specifically told me to ask you
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those questions. Before that, I want to get into
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this. Now, we briefly spoke on the phone a couple
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weeks ago, and one thing that stood out to me
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in that brief conversation was your perspective
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on not wanting to be categorized or labeled within.
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one single genre. And as I mentioned to you on
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the phone, I also try to avoid labeling artists
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based on genre, background, origin, and prefer
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to approach each conversation without preconceived
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ideas of the individual that I'm speaking with.
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So with that in mind, you are from Argentina
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and have published a tango in America. In American
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piano music. Correct. Yes. And yet you don't
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present yourself as a tango pianist. And in fact,
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you refuse that. So you resisted being labeled
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as such. So given your broad repertoire, first
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of all, what is this tango in American music
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about? Let's start with that. And it's a book,
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right? Obviously engaged with the tango. Right.
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So this is the result of my doctoral dissertation
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at the University of Arizona. Of course, I play
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Beethoven, Chopin, Soler, Scarlatti, you know,
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the traditional repertoire. But then you need
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to narrow down to a specific topic that is unique,
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that has not been explored before or been explored
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very little. So you can contribute to that particular
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topic. So I was already in the United States
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and I decided to focus on American composers
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who compose tangos for piano. Again, me being
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from Argentina. I would say I was not fond of
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tango music when I was young. No, my parents
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were because they were, you know, they were from
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the 50s, 60s. So the tango in Argentina at that
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time, kind of the interest went down a little
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bit. And now, of course, in the 1890s and right
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now is very popular for young people even to
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dance tango. That was not the case. That was
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not... the period where I, you know, where I
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grow up in Argentina, you know, the 70s, the
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80s, it was not popular in young people. to listen
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or to dance or to perform that music. We were
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more concerned with national rock, what we call
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at that time. Okay, so I grew up with that type
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of music, rock music and popular music, not tango
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music itself. But I thought that would be a great
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opportunity to explore that topic, not only because
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I was interested now that I was a little bit
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older in connecting the tango and how the tango
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influenced composers around the world. But because
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at that time also I got a fellowship with the
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Smithsonian Institution in Washington, D .C.,
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it was a summer graduate fellowship that I could
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research and I could do whatever I wanted related
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to Latin American culture. Okay, so... Although
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I was based at the Smithsonian Institution in
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one of those buildings, I was just down the road
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from the Library of Congress. So most of my time,
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instead of spending in the buildings where I
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was assigned an office, I would just go to the
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Library of Congress and start researching, you
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know, composers, American composers who composed
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tangos for piano. And that is the result really
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of my doctoral dissertation that then College
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Music Society, which is one of the biggest society
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for professional musicians in the world, of course,
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in the United States, they started with a new
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series that they were trying to blend that traditional
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music with more social issues. And it's called
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Cultural Expression in Music. So my book, which
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was my dissertation, basically, is the first
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book they ever published. And it's called The
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Tango in American Piano Music. And what I did
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is I selected, because of course I could not
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talk about the hundreds and hundreds of... of
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American composers who compose tangos, I have
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to select. So I focus from the early 20th century
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to the last part of the 20th century. So I started
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with... Virgil Thompson and Aaron Copland. And
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then I finished with William Bolcom, which the
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tango is from the 1980s. And I cover different
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genres with tango itself. But the book starts
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with really an overview of the Argentine tango,
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or the tango that was... really popular in Argentina
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and in the world in the 1920s. By the way, the
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tango is not really Argentine. It came from Europe,
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from Spain. But what we talk today, when people
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refer about tango today, they usually refer to
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the tango that developed in the La Plata River,
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which is Uruguay and Argentina. You know, it
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developed between these two countries. So I decided
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to focus in what characteristics of tango these
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American composers choose to emphasize in their
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compositions and if they really related or not
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to the Argentine tango. So that was the topic
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of that book. So you're talking about America
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as in North America? North America, correct.
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And U .S. composers. Wow. U .S .A. composers
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only. Yeah. And how many U .S. composers do you
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found that really influenced by Argentine tango?
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Well, the interesting thing with the Argentine
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tango is that it was such a big hit in the early
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part of the 1900s. So the 1910s, 1920s, it was
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when that... went outside Argentina and really
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exploded. Everybody was composing tango. And
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then through the 20th century and even today...
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what we call classical or art music composers
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still compose tango. So tango was one of those
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very influential dances that developed around
00:16:05.029 --> 00:16:10.639
the world and composers took note of that. It
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was very, very popular musicals, incorporated
00:16:13.659 --> 00:16:18.700
tangos. Even the Vatican had to create a decree
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forbidding Catholics from dancing the tango because
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it was such a, you know, not to then a decent
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dance because it's the approximation, you know,
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it's one of the only dances that the bodies touch.
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Really, you embrace your couple very close. You
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know, the walls, you embrace the couple, but
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there is always a distance between the bodies.
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You know, there is always... few inches between
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the bodies, but the tango is the one that you
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actually have to connect your chest to chest.
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So that created, of course, a huge revolt in
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some, you know, like the Catholic Church. So
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it was so influential that even religion got
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involved and politics got involved, you know,
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within tango at that particular period, you know,
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very early 20th century. Wow, that's interesting.
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But, you know, I didn't think of... tango in
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:22.980
that sense like you know we talk about waltz
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we talk about polonaise we talk about mazurkas
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and they are from let's say Poland originally
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and then we don't think those as a Polish music
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more like a genre now does that make sense and
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a lot of composers all over the world they compose
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those music a la Mazurka, Ala Waltz, and then
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name as such. But we consider them as genres.
00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.079
But when it comes to tango, I'm almost thinking,
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well, it is a genre, but I never thought of that
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way. Like the composers beyond Argentine would
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compose as one of the genres, dance genres. Does
00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:10.039
that make sense? Yeah. Yes. And in particular,
00:18:10.220 --> 00:18:13.809
when we are talking about, you know, classical
00:18:13.809 --> 00:18:17.710
music or academic music. I don't think these
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composers meant that music to be dance, because
00:18:21.950 --> 00:18:25.650
within the tango genre, you have tangos that
00:18:25.650 --> 00:18:29.670
are danceable, that you can dance, and tangos
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that are really... The lyrics are, although you
00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:36.329
can dance every tango, really, but there are
00:18:36.329 --> 00:18:41.849
others that are more melodic. And so when these
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composers thought about how to incorporate certain
00:18:45.470 --> 00:18:50.609
characteristics of the Argentine tango, I don't
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think they had in mind for the music to be dance.
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I think they had in mind for the music to reflect
00:18:57.970 --> 00:19:02.380
what they... thought or what they perceived they
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were tango characteristics and so the public
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will be able to um kind of you know cross references
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oh yes this sounds as a tango this doesn't sound
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at a tango and has to do with the rhythms and
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has to do with other of course musical characteristics
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right right let me for example like Bach, you
00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:28.650
know, composed a lot of dance suites, but they're
00:19:28.650 --> 00:19:31.470
not really meant to dance with. Right. Right.
00:19:31.549 --> 00:19:34.509
So something like that. Right. Something like
00:19:34.509 --> 00:19:37.789
that. And of course, you know, because the tango
00:19:37.789 --> 00:19:40.650
is an urban genre, it's a popular, you know,
00:19:40.650 --> 00:19:45.869
it belongs to the to the really to the. the area
00:19:45.869 --> 00:19:49.829
of Buenos Aires and Montevideo, Uruguay, on that
00:19:49.829 --> 00:19:55.549
area of Argentina and Uruguay. That's where the
00:19:55.549 --> 00:19:58.609
tango developed, really. And Argentina is a large
00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:01.089
country, so we have areas of Argentina where
00:20:01.089 --> 00:20:05.509
the tango is not. I won't say popular, but it's
00:20:05.509 --> 00:20:09.029
not what represents those regions of Argentina,
00:20:09.410 --> 00:20:11.970
including myself. I'm from northern Argentina,
00:20:12.230 --> 00:20:15.890
so the tango does not represent me. I don't feel
00:20:15.890 --> 00:20:19.609
like the tango is the musical genre that represents
00:20:19.609 --> 00:20:23.769
my region and my area. It's very focalized, and
00:20:23.769 --> 00:20:28.470
it's only... You can say Buenos Aires and Montevideo,
00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:31.230
Uruguay, which is across the La Plata River.
00:20:31.369 --> 00:20:33.430
That's what the tango represents, the people
00:20:33.430 --> 00:20:35.950
specifically from those areas. So that's what
00:20:35.950 --> 00:20:39.589
I call an urban genre. It represents an urban
00:20:39.589 --> 00:20:45.130
area and not necessarily the whole country. Did
00:20:45.130 --> 00:20:49.119
you turn this into an album? I know there's like
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.740
a Mostly Tangos Piano Music from the Americas.
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:56.359
That was the album from 2009. Is it part of the
00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.920
project from this? Well, within my dissertation,
00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:05.960
I recorded all the pieces. So I talk about, like
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:09.220
I said, there is an introduction in my book about...
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:14.279
what is tango, where the tango came from, when
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:17.200
the tango started developing in Argentina, which
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.319
is what, or Montevideo in that area, what is
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:25.779
what recognized today as tango. And then I go
00:21:25.779 --> 00:21:29.279
into the selection of American composers who
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:31.799
composed tangos, and that's Virgil Thompson,
00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:35.960
Aaron Copland, Chester Viscardi, Samuel Barber,
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:41.259
and William Balkan. So I recorded all these pieces
00:21:41.259 --> 00:21:44.039
for my dissertation. It's a CD that goes with
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.940
my dissertation. But a few years after that,
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.839
when I decided to record my first album, I incorporated
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:55.720
some of this music. For instance, in the recording
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:58.769
that you just mentioned, mostly tangos. Again,
00:21:58.869 --> 00:22:01.990
the title is mostly tangos, piano music from
00:22:01.990 --> 00:22:06.910
the Americas. So I play many other composers
00:22:06.910 --> 00:22:10.670
and many other genres that are not tango in that
00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:15.230
CD. But I do play in that CD the William Balcombe
00:22:15.230 --> 00:22:19.009
tango. I play Samuel Barber tango. And then I
00:22:19.009 --> 00:22:24.079
play Astor Piazzolla. which was the father of
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:26.980
the modern tango, per se. And then I play pieces
00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:29.779
by Vila Lobos, which is not a tango. I play pieces
00:22:29.779 --> 00:23:21.960
by Manuel Ponce, which are not tangos. I was
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:25.759
enjoying listening to this album for the last
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:29.880
couple days. This album is available on Apple
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:36.079
Music? Yeah, it's on Amazon. You can find it
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.000
on Spotify. It's everywhere. Okay, I will make
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.859
sure to link that in the show notes. So what
00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:45.599
do you think that people misunderstand about
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.930
this distinction? Or label you. Oh, Argentine
00:23:49.930 --> 00:23:52.509
tango. Oh, I should go to Dr. Oscar Macchione.
00:23:53.670 --> 00:23:57.930
I don't believe in labels. I actually, and that
00:23:57.930 --> 00:24:00.009
was when, like you mentioned, when we talk on
00:24:00.009 --> 00:24:02.410
the phone, I said, please do not refer to me
00:24:02.410 --> 00:24:06.529
as the tango guy, because yes, I did a lot of
00:24:06.529 --> 00:24:09.430
research. Yes, I have a book. Yes, I have a lot
00:24:09.430 --> 00:24:12.809
of CD, not only that solo CD, but also I have
00:24:12.809 --> 00:24:17.410
a whole CD of Astor Piazzolla played in duos
00:24:17.410 --> 00:24:20.349
and trios, so piano, violin, and cello. And I
00:24:20.349 --> 00:24:23.690
played that music for a long time and for many
00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:28.420
decades. But I don't want to be labeled as the
00:24:28.420 --> 00:24:31.119
tango guy. I don't want to be labeled as the
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.880
Piazzolla person. I think those labels are very
00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:38.180
dangerous and they are very narrow -minded. And
00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:46.039
I don't pretend to be an expert on all this.
00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:50.299
I just like to research that music and I like
00:24:50.299 --> 00:24:54.259
to play that music among. other things that I
00:24:54.259 --> 00:24:57.339
like to play of traditional music too. So I don't
00:24:57.339 --> 00:25:01.220
want to be labeled as the such and such person.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.500
I don't believe that and I don't also I don't
00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:05.559
believe that because you are from Poland you
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.359
are better playing Chopin than anybody else or
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:10.460
that because you are from Russia you are the
00:25:10.460 --> 00:25:12.680
best Rachmaninoff performer because that's not
00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:16.839
true. That's a very false statement. Just look
00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:19.299
at the winners of the Chopin competition in Warsaw
00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:23.109
and you will see what I'm talking about. Absolutely.
00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:26.289
Well, thank you. Yeah, but it's easier, especially
00:25:26.289 --> 00:25:30.230
for tango music like that, to label you as such,
00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:32.829
right? Right. And because also, you know, because
00:25:32.829 --> 00:25:35.289
like I said, I performed that for a long time
00:25:35.289 --> 00:25:38.849
and I keep performing, but I don't want to be
00:25:38.849 --> 00:25:42.349
labeled as an expert because I'm not an expert.
00:25:42.430 --> 00:25:46.309
I don't believe in experts in one thing. It's
00:25:46.309 --> 00:25:49.380
just... what we do at that particular time. And
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:53.420
yes, I may know a little bit more than my neighbor
00:25:53.420 --> 00:25:56.940
because I play maybe more music, but that doesn't
00:25:56.940 --> 00:26:01.619
make me an expert per se. Now, some of the tangos
00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:04.619
you performed, like especially Piazzolla and
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:10.099
such, you arranged. I did one around, a couple
00:26:10.099 --> 00:26:14.500
of them, but one that I put on YouTube, that
00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:16.920
was during, I think during the pandemic also,
00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:22.400
that I decided to arrange La Muerte del Ángel,
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:27.140
because I played that as a trio, and as it happened
00:26:27.140 --> 00:26:29.680
with most of Piazzolla music, he did compose
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.450
at the piano, but he was not a pianist. So sometimes
00:26:33.450 --> 00:26:36.089
the music, when you get the music, the score,
00:26:36.309 --> 00:26:39.190
the sheet music is very bare. There is not much
00:26:39.190 --> 00:26:43.410
there. There are many, I would say, even technically
00:26:43.410 --> 00:26:45.890
uncomfortable, not difficult, but very uncomfortable
00:26:45.890 --> 00:26:50.650
or unusual ways of writing because, again, he
00:26:50.650 --> 00:26:55.690
was not a pianist. He just wrote the music in
00:26:55.690 --> 00:27:02.750
a piano format. So I decided to make an arrangement
00:27:02.750 --> 00:27:08.829
of that really combining the solo piano version
00:27:08.829 --> 00:27:12.069
that again is very simple in the score when you
00:27:12.069 --> 00:27:15.009
buy it and the trio version that was arranged
00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:17.769
by somebody else and has a different you know
00:27:17.769 --> 00:27:20.950
section that is not in the solo piano version
00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:25.990
and the trio version really is is based on Piazzolla
00:27:25.990 --> 00:27:28.690
performances when they perform this music they
00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:32.769
rearrange the music many times. So it's never
00:27:32.769 --> 00:27:36.269
exactly the same. So there are sections on that
00:27:36.269 --> 00:27:39.130
arrangement that I did that really I took the
00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:43.609
ideas from the trio version of this particular
00:27:43.609 --> 00:28:53.730
piece, which is La Muerte del Angel. Now, you
00:28:53.730 --> 00:28:57.250
also mentioned this composer, William Baucom.
00:28:57.509 --> 00:29:02.950
I have never heard of him until I learned him
00:29:02.950 --> 00:29:06.809
through this episode. So tell us more about him.
00:29:06.869 --> 00:29:09.930
He is an American composer from last century.
00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:13.650
Well, he's an American composer. He was born
00:29:13.650 --> 00:29:18.410
in 1938. He's still alive. He's still alive.
00:29:18.509 --> 00:29:21.150
I talked to him last year because I also wrote
00:29:21.150 --> 00:29:23.980
an article about one of his... pedagogical pieces
00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:26.920
that maybe we can talk later on, the monster
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:34.380
pieces for piano. So I encountered him, you know,
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:37.160
he was one of my composers from my dissertation.
00:29:38.829 --> 00:29:42.869
But I heard his music before because I have some
00:29:42.869 --> 00:29:46.410
classmates playing some of his rags. I mean,
00:29:46.430 --> 00:29:52.069
he's very famous for his piano rags. And they're
00:29:52.069 --> 00:29:55.869
wonderful pieces. So I know that, and I knew
00:29:55.869 --> 00:29:59.269
that by listening to some of my classmates performing
00:29:59.269 --> 00:30:01.809
his music. But then when I started researching
00:30:01.809 --> 00:30:04.369
about American composers who composed tangos,
00:30:04.940 --> 00:30:07.599
His name came immediately because he composed
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.440
what is the title is The Dead Moth Tango. When
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:16.160
I interviewed him, this was like 25, 30 years
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.660
ago. And he said that, you know, the title is
00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:22.160
because he was writing a tango. He knew he wanted
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:24.680
to write a tango. And it happened that a moth
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:28.220
was on the score and he just smashed that moth.
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:35.309
And there the title, The Dead Moth Tango. Thank
00:30:35.309 --> 00:31:17.500
you. And that's also in the album, right? That's
00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:21.579
in the album, right? That's one of the mostly
00:31:21.579 --> 00:31:23.880
tango piano music from the Americas. Actually,
00:31:23.900 --> 00:31:28.579
yeah, it's in the album. Great. So besides this
00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:32.579
tango music, what else should we look for in
00:31:32.579 --> 00:31:36.180
his compositions? Is he known for piano works
00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:39.779
or does he compose? Well, he composed, you know.
00:31:41.270 --> 00:31:45.750
symphonies, operas, quartets, piano music, chamber
00:31:45.750 --> 00:31:51.509
music. song cycles because his wife is Joanne
00:31:51.509 --> 00:31:54.910
Morris who is a soprano and which is a singer
00:31:54.910 --> 00:32:00.109
and they play together for a long time. So there's
00:32:00.109 --> 00:32:03.769
a lot of song cycles that he wrote. I would say
00:32:03.769 --> 00:32:07.309
that for listeners who are not familiar with
00:32:07.309 --> 00:32:13.019
Volcom to listen to the piano racks. and to listen
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:17.319
to the Cabaret songs, which is an incredible
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:19.980
set. And again, the Cabaret song is one of the
00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:23.460
songs I heard my... colleagues when I was doing
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:27.259
my doctoral degree performing. And that's how
00:32:27.259 --> 00:32:33.140
I became more interested in Balkan. But his style
00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:37.079
is all over the... He doesn't have one specific
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:41.440
style. Son of the Music is very even avant -garde.
00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:46.539
So I probably wouldn't recommend to start listening
00:32:46.539 --> 00:32:48.900
to that music, but start with the music that
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:54.940
is more... and it's more close to sand genres
00:32:54.940 --> 00:32:57.619
that people may know, like, you know, Scott Joplin,
00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:04.480
the piano rags, because the piano rags that Volcom
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:08.009
composed are really incredible. Perhaps the most
00:33:08.009 --> 00:33:13.809
famous one is the Graceful Ghost. I'm sure that
00:33:13.809 --> 00:33:16.690
people will recognize that piece if they start
00:33:16.690 --> 00:33:19.049
listening to that. And that will be probably
00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:23.150
the entry point, I would say, for his music.
00:33:23.210 --> 00:33:25.869
And then they can explore, of course, more advanced
00:33:25.869 --> 00:33:32.519
music. techniques that he used. But The Graceful
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:35.500
Ghost will be probably, I would say, I would
00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:39.019
recommend that as the entrance point to listen
00:33:39.019 --> 00:33:43.680
to Balcombe's musical language. Okay, well, thank
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:47.900
you for your recommendation. And also, you recently
00:33:47.900 --> 00:33:51.740
wrote about Monster Pieces? Yes. It's a set of
00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:55.220
piano works by Balcombe as well? By Volcom. And,
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:58.700
you know, like I'm always interested in letting
00:33:58.700 --> 00:34:04.720
people know about unusual repertoire, repertoire
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:09.599
that is not well known or performed a lot. So
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.360
I was writing an article for the American Music
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:17.420
Teachers Magazine, which is basically, you know,
00:34:17.420 --> 00:34:20.159
a piano teachers magazine in the United States.
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:26.809
And I... remember that I had this core, which
00:34:26.809 --> 00:34:29.809
is incredible, and I have it here because it's
00:34:29.809 --> 00:34:34.150
with William Balcombe's own drawings. I remember
00:34:34.150 --> 00:34:42.969
I bought this core on a used book store in Tucson,
00:34:43.150 --> 00:34:46.630
Arizona when I was doing my doctoral degree.
00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:50.519
And I just thought it was cute. And I put it
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.159
on my, you know, among my scores and never saw
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:56.500
it again. Two years ago, I started writing this
00:34:56.500 --> 00:35:00.139
article and I said, oh, I have that score. So
00:35:00.139 --> 00:35:04.880
these are 10 pieces. It's called Monster Pieces,
00:35:04.900 --> 00:35:09.280
all one word, for older children for piano. And
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.199
really the description is an adventure in contemporary
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:19.389
music for the piano students. And they are very
00:35:19.389 --> 00:35:22.429
small, very simple pieces. You know, most of
00:35:22.429 --> 00:35:25.750
them are 16 to 20 measures long, except for the
00:35:25.750 --> 00:35:32.090
last one. And they incorporate contemporary piano
00:35:32.090 --> 00:35:35.170
techniques. Okay, they incorporate clusters.
00:35:35.170 --> 00:35:37.849
That is when you play many notes at the same
00:35:37.849 --> 00:35:42.309
time, either with your palm or with your arm
00:35:42.309 --> 00:35:46.489
and forearm. Of course, language that is not...
00:35:46.650 --> 00:35:52.090
tunnel completely. And it's very cute because
00:35:52.090 --> 00:35:58.630
he illustrates every one of them. Oh my goodness.
00:35:59.150 --> 00:36:03.090
It's an illustration by William Bolcombe. No
00:36:03.090 --> 00:36:06.030
way. All his drawings are his drawings. Are you
00:36:06.030 --> 00:36:10.929
serious? Yes. So the titles are like the mad
00:36:10.929 --> 00:36:16.860
monsters, the sad monster. the bad mister, the
00:36:16.860 --> 00:36:20.900
glad minister, the played miss, and the played
00:36:20.900 --> 00:36:26.579
miss, of course, has a played dress. Oh, how
00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:35.610
cute. Oh, my goodness. Wow. And so on. I think
00:36:35.610 --> 00:36:39.070
it's a wonderful set of pieces, very short. Again,
00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:41.769
some of them last maybe a minute when you perform,
00:36:42.110 --> 00:36:45.809
but it's a good introduction to contemporary
00:36:45.809 --> 00:36:49.730
piano music. Again, this was written in the 80s,
00:36:49.730 --> 00:36:53.590
so it's not contemporary anymore, but that's
00:36:53.590 --> 00:36:55.769
what we call at that time contemporary music.
00:36:56.130 --> 00:37:00.760
But still, it's... I think music education, even
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:03.539
nowadays, it's just a traditional way of playing
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:06.659
the piano, teaching piano. So I think there's
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:10.280
a big market for that. And honestly, if I were,
00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:13.519
you know, there's a time machine, I'm being able
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.500
to go back when I was a child. I wish I had a
00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:19.900
book like that to learn. Yeah, and there are
00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:22.559
many composers. Of course, there are many composers
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.760
that compose in a more... tonal or traditional
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:28.760
way for students. Many pedagogical composers,
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:31.619
you know, they're still composing that. Many
00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:34.179
composers that are no longer with us that compose
00:37:34.179 --> 00:37:38.800
specifically for kids because this music is to
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:43.099
be performed by kids. You know, it's not like
00:37:43.099 --> 00:37:47.539
Schumann's kinder scene which is not to be played
00:37:47.539 --> 00:37:49.820
by kids, to be played by grown -up pianists,
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:55.599
really, but about kids' scenes. These are for
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.440
kids to play. So this is a great introduction.
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:01.679
Sometimes teachers don't know how to introduce
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.800
students to more contemporary music, to different
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.969
languages. Sometimes... The music that we have
00:38:08.969 --> 00:38:12.429
by other composers are long pieces and very complicated
00:38:12.429 --> 00:38:15.710
pieces. This is specifically composed for kids.
00:38:16.110 --> 00:38:20.849
And like I said, some of them are only 10, 16
00:38:20.849 --> 00:38:24.650
measures long. And each one tackles a different,
00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:28.190
you know, rhythms or aleatorily a playing. There
00:38:28.190 --> 00:38:30.849
is no bar lines. There is no timing. There is
00:38:30.849 --> 00:38:33.750
nothing. You just play the notes as you wish.
00:38:57.889 --> 00:39:02.190
I'd like to talk about your concert career. You've
00:39:02.190 --> 00:39:05.570
performed widely throughout your career. How
00:39:05.570 --> 00:39:08.250
do you think about shaping a program? for a given
00:39:08.250 --> 00:39:13.170
season? Do you build around themes or composers
00:39:13.170 --> 00:39:16.670
or something else? Or are you trying to incorporate
00:39:16.670 --> 00:39:20.869
many different time periods? You know, I think
00:39:20.869 --> 00:39:25.570
of a program, of a concert program, as a very,
00:39:25.690 --> 00:39:33.289
like an eight -course meal. I think that when
00:39:33.289 --> 00:39:38.019
you perform and when we perform, The majority
00:39:38.019 --> 00:39:42.019
of the public attending our performances are
00:39:42.019 --> 00:39:48.420
not going to be musicians, are going to be music
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:52.159
lovers, are going to be people who love to go
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:54.719
to a live concert, and they are going to be doctors,
00:39:54.880 --> 00:40:00.440
engineers, teachers, workers from all sorts of
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:07.530
trades. So we need to be very... careful when
00:40:07.530 --> 00:40:12.150
we program music because, of course, I love certain,
00:40:12.309 --> 00:40:15.090
maybe I love certain type of music, but if I
00:40:15.090 --> 00:40:19.329
only play that music in that program, it may
00:40:19.329 --> 00:40:24.150
not be successful for the listeners. So I...
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:29.739
When I play programs, you know, I try to be careful,
00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:32.940
even if it's within Latin American music, which
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:35.480
I play many programs that they were only Latin
00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:39.179
American music. I always try to include music
00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:41.780
that is going to be a little bit more accessible
00:40:41.780 --> 00:40:45.699
and easy to listen. and introduce some music
00:40:45.699 --> 00:40:48.840
that is a little bit more out there with the
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:53.760
language is more strange for the public. But
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.539
I will never program a whole program, a whole
00:40:57.539 --> 00:41:00.360
concert with music that is going to be strange
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:03.440
to everybody. I think that those are very unsuccessful
00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:08.199
programs. I saw people leaving within 10, 15,
00:41:08.260 --> 00:41:12.179
20 minutes because they cannot stand. And we
00:41:12.179 --> 00:41:16.360
need to be sensible to that. And like I said,
00:41:16.539 --> 00:41:21.500
I love chocolate, but I cannot live only with
00:41:21.500 --> 00:41:24.880
chocolate. You're right. You know, I mean, I
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:28.019
love pasta too. So why I will eat for a whole
00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:33.539
year only chocolate and deprive myself of all
00:41:33.539 --> 00:41:36.639
the other tastes that are so wonderful in other
00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:40.500
type of music. So when we do and when performers
00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:46.260
do these very narrow programs, what are they
00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:49.039
trying to prove? Are they trying to prove that
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.239
they can play only that music or they can stand
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:56.400
up only to play the 32 Beethoven sonatas in two,
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:01.380
three nights? I mean, are they thinking about
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:04.960
the public? Because I'm a pianist and I love
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:06.820
Beethoven, I don't think I can go three days
00:42:06.820 --> 00:42:10.369
in a row to listen to Beethoven sonatas. And
00:42:10.369 --> 00:42:13.349
it's like you are eating the same food over and
00:42:13.349 --> 00:42:15.789
over and over and over and over again for three,
00:42:15.829 --> 00:42:20.489
four days. So when that's an amazing accomplishment,
00:42:21.010 --> 00:42:24.130
we accomplish anything for the public who are
00:42:24.130 --> 00:42:27.010
there and the majority are not going to be piano
00:42:27.010 --> 00:42:30.929
pianists. They are not going to be musicians.
00:42:31.690 --> 00:42:38.900
So again, I think. In a different way, I like
00:42:38.900 --> 00:42:46.079
to program the variety within my programs when
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:50.400
I program a concert, a recital, because I think
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.440
of that way of being able to give to the public
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:57.039
different tastes. Like when you have a very nice,
00:42:57.139 --> 00:43:01.559
elaborate meal, you have different things, not
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:06.010
just one thing. I don't think anybody would want
00:43:06.010 --> 00:43:09.329
to go and eat pasta, eight different pastas in
00:43:09.329 --> 00:43:13.909
one night. It's just too much. That's true. Although
00:43:13.909 --> 00:43:17.090
I love pasta. Me too. Don't get me wrong. And
00:43:17.090 --> 00:43:19.949
I can eat the same food for days. I don't have
00:43:19.949 --> 00:43:23.010
any problem eating leftovers after leftovers.
00:43:23.269 --> 00:43:26.829
But I don't have to force that in somebody else.
00:43:27.710 --> 00:43:30.869
That's what I feel. I cannot force that taste
00:43:30.869 --> 00:43:35.639
in somebody else. Now, before we get into your
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:37.900
origin story, I'd love to touch on something
00:43:37.900 --> 00:43:40.980
that, you know, connects to your time in Poland.
00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:45.059
So you spent a significant period there as a
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:48.139
student, and that's when you discovered the 20th
00:43:48.139 --> 00:43:52.039
century. Polish composer, Szymanowski, and developed
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.400
a deep connection to his music. And today his
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.599
work, you know, has increasingly become part
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:01.000
of the broader repertoire, which is great with
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.800
pieces like his mazurkas and preludes and so
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.699
on. And usually, you know, especially mazurkas,
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.659
they are often sort of side by side compared
00:44:10.659 --> 00:44:14.179
or discussed with Chopin's mazurkas, right? So
00:44:14.179 --> 00:44:17.619
what specific characteristic or piece by Szymanowski
00:44:17.619 --> 00:44:23.739
drew you into your repertoire in the first place?
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:27.300
Okay, so when I went to Poland, I didn't know
00:44:27.300 --> 00:44:31.519
of Szymanowski. Maybe I heard his name. as a
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.500
student at the university in Argentina, but I
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:36.800
never heard his music and I never played his
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:40.340
music. I didn't have access to the scores. So
00:44:40.340 --> 00:44:47.420
it was just a name. During my first piano lesson
00:44:47.420 --> 00:44:50.679
in Krakow, my teacher says, well, do you know
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.559
Szymanowski? And I say, no. She said, well, you
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:58.000
need to bring, you know, Etude Opus 4 No. 3 for
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.380
me, which is the famous B -flat minor etude you
00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:05.239
needed to bring for me for next class, for your
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:08.699
next lesson. So I went, I made a copy of the
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:12.699
score, and I... start practicing for my next
00:45:12.699 --> 00:45:15.719
lesson. And I fell in love. Of course, this is
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:19.260
a very famous piece. It's very romantic and very
00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:24.960
powerful, very dramatic. And so I brought that
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.980
piece to my next lesson, among other things.
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.559
And she said, you know, you are good for this.
00:45:31.659 --> 00:45:37.199
You really understood. And his language and his
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:40.260
intention, just, you know, with one week of work,
00:45:40.460 --> 00:45:44.099
when I was practicing Mozart and Bach and Chopin
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:47.199
for years, and probably for her, I wasn't good
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:51.420
enough. But with Szymanowski, she said, you really
00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:56.460
understand his language. So that's how I started.
00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:58.920
And she started assigning me more pieces and
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:03.679
more pieces. And that's how I... really fell
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:07.460
in love with his music. Now, Szymanowski has
00:46:07.460 --> 00:46:10.059
different periods. You know, he's very transitional
00:46:10.059 --> 00:46:13.559
from late 1800s to the beginning of the 20th
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:17.320
century. So the music, and I love all his music,
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:21.219
don't get me wrong. But the music I really identify
00:46:21.219 --> 00:46:24.960
with me is the early period, which is the more
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:29.000
romantic period, almost a mix of Scriabin and
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:32.820
Rachmaninoff and Chopin. Although I think that
00:46:32.820 --> 00:46:36.480
Szymanowski was very sophisticated in his writing.
00:46:37.460 --> 00:46:40.960
So that's the music that I identify with. Although
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.239
I love the medieval period, which is more impressionistic,
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:47.559
and he's exploring with different harmonies and
00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:50.920
other things. Or the folk period, which is the
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:54.730
mazurkas, and it's just a very advanced... type
00:46:54.730 --> 00:46:59.630
of musical language. I still like the early period,
00:46:59.789 --> 00:47:02.570
which is the more romantic period. So it's all
00:47:02.570 --> 00:47:05.030
the preludes, his etudes opus four variations.
00:47:05.610 --> 00:47:09.989
And after that, he started exploring a little
00:47:09.989 --> 00:47:14.010
bit more and opening his compositional techniques
00:47:14.010 --> 00:47:18.050
and his taste for harmonies and layers of sounds
00:47:18.050 --> 00:47:24.239
to a different... with a different optic than
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:28.099
the romantic that he has in the earlier work.
00:47:28.820 --> 00:47:35.099
So I've known his reputation as a dense harmonic
00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:39.679
language, and so pedaling can be challenging
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:43.780
and so on, but does that apply to his early work?
00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:48.519
Yes, it still applies to his early work. Right
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:52.199
from the very beginning, which is... The preludes,
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:54.579
he composed those, and those are gems. I mean,
00:47:54.619 --> 00:48:00.079
they are just incredible pieces, nine preludes,
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:03.440
opus one. He composed those when he was still
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:09.780
a teenager. And the depth, I don't know how to
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:16.340
say, but the melancholy of those preludes is
00:48:16.340 --> 00:48:18.969
what... draw my attention and that's what I love
00:48:18.969 --> 00:48:21.530
and so much you know along also with the with
00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:24.550
the Etudes Opus 4 and the Variations Opus 3.
00:48:25.130 --> 00:48:30.570
It's a very melancholic type of writing and I
00:48:30.570 --> 00:48:34.349
don't know I think I like melancholic music.
00:49:36.489 --> 00:49:39.329
And what you mentioned about the textures and
00:49:39.329 --> 00:49:41.690
the pedaling and all that is true. I mean, it
00:49:41.690 --> 00:49:48.230
applies to the very early compositions too. And
00:49:48.230 --> 00:49:53.710
it's very hard to read. Sometimes pianists don't
00:49:53.710 --> 00:49:56.630
want to play Szymanowski because there are so
00:49:56.630 --> 00:50:00.139
many accidentals and so many difficult... keys
00:50:00.139 --> 00:50:04.019
to read and so many double sharps and double
00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:08.780
flats and modulations that surprise us not only
00:50:08.780 --> 00:50:12.820
hearing then also physically how to you know
00:50:12.820 --> 00:50:15.940
how to get from here to there um is sometimes
00:50:15.940 --> 00:50:18.480
it's not uncomfortable it's not comfortable the
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:22.179
writing although he was a pianist but the writing
00:50:22.179 --> 00:50:28.019
is not 100 comfortable for the pianist list is
00:50:28.510 --> 00:50:30.909
very difficult, but it's absolutely comfortable.
00:50:31.389 --> 00:50:35.050
I mean, I think that every pianist will feel
00:50:35.050 --> 00:50:40.440
that the music fits their hands. and what the
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.659
hands can do physically to play those things.
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:47.380
Regardless of the difficult, regardless of the
00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:49.519
speed that you have to play some of these pieces,
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:53.059
I'm talking about how the music fits the pianist's
00:50:53.059 --> 00:50:56.260
hands. And with Liszt, it's just he knew exactly
00:50:56.260 --> 00:50:58.880
what he was doing. Same thing with Chopin. It
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.599
may be very difficult to play, but the music
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:04.739
fits the hands, you know, the anatomy of the
00:51:04.739 --> 00:51:07.000
hands. With Szymanowski, it's a little bit different.
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.090
Not everything fits. in your hands so you need
00:51:10.090 --> 00:51:14.329
to find ways of making it happen because he was
00:51:14.329 --> 00:51:17.170
more concerned just with the I think, with the
00:51:17.170 --> 00:51:20.369
results of the music that with how the hands
00:51:20.369 --> 00:51:23.929
can or cannot perform certain things. So there
00:51:23.929 --> 00:51:26.929
are very awkward passages, very awkward moments.
00:51:28.369 --> 00:51:31.349
Right in the preludes, all the arpeggios in the
00:51:31.349 --> 00:51:35.030
left hand goes from up down, when in traditional
00:51:35.030 --> 00:51:37.809
music, in romantic music, all the arpeggios start
00:51:37.809 --> 00:51:41.449
in the lower note and go up. that creates a problem
00:51:41.449 --> 00:51:43.530
with the pedaling because you end up with the
00:51:43.530 --> 00:51:45.849
fundamental notes of the arpeggio at the very
00:51:45.849 --> 00:51:49.230
end of the arpeggio and it creates all sorts
00:51:49.230 --> 00:51:52.710
of problems with the pedaling that of course
00:51:52.710 --> 00:51:55.130
they are absolutely doable once you understand
00:51:55.130 --> 00:51:58.190
what is going on with the music and do not try
00:51:58.190 --> 00:52:03.210
to apply a traditional pedaling or romantic pedaling
00:52:03.210 --> 00:52:05.530
for that music that sounds very romantic, but
00:52:05.530 --> 00:52:08.849
it's written in a very different way than the
00:52:08.849 --> 00:52:14.210
traditional romantic music. Wow. So you seem
00:52:14.210 --> 00:52:17.590
to know a lot about Schmanowski. So probably
00:52:17.590 --> 00:52:21.389
that comes from your years in Poland, correct?
00:52:22.030 --> 00:52:27.199
Yes, yes. And I study a lot of the music. especially,
00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:30.159
not everything, but Son of the Nine Preludes
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:33.039
and a couple of the etudes when I was for two
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:38.380
years in Poland. So I was able to work with my
00:52:38.380 --> 00:52:41.760
professor, which was Eva Bukoyemska, and she
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:46.739
is still alive, and she's the editor of the Szymanowski
00:52:46.739 --> 00:52:49.380
piano music, especially the early part. That's
00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:51.179
the part that she liked, and that's the part
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:54.369
that she introduced. to me also that's what i
00:52:54.369 --> 00:53:00.150
think i i love it but um so during the you know
00:53:00.150 --> 00:53:03.969
of course i i i learned about his music there
00:53:03.969 --> 00:53:06.550
i learned it in poland with a polish teacher
00:53:06.550 --> 00:53:10.730
who actually edited his music and and then of
00:53:10.730 --> 00:53:13.429
course i came to the united states i have to
00:53:13.429 --> 00:53:16.670
learn all sorts of music i play Beethoven, Bach,
00:53:16.929 --> 00:53:20.070
Chopin, you know, Bolcom, Piazzolla, everything
00:53:20.070 --> 00:53:24.510
else. But always I would come back every so often
00:53:24.510 --> 00:53:28.250
and play the old pieces, the old Szymanowski
00:53:28.250 --> 00:53:32.489
pieces that I knew. Till about three years ago,
00:53:32.650 --> 00:53:35.650
I have a faculty development leave at the University
00:53:35.650 --> 00:53:38.829
of Texas at El Paso. I taught there for 20 years
00:53:38.829 --> 00:53:43.090
before I came to UNT three years ago. So that
00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:47.199
was my first sabbatical. after 20 years or 15
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:52.519
years working there. And my project, and people
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:54.440
were surprised, my friends and my colleagues
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:56.480
were surprised that I didn't do anything with
00:53:56.480 --> 00:54:00.380
Latin American music. When everybody now is doing,
00:54:00.500 --> 00:54:02.579
you know, Latin American music and a bunch of
00:54:02.579 --> 00:54:05.159
things, I said, no, this project is going to
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:08.179
be Szymanowski. It's going to be Karol Szymanowski.
00:54:08.300 --> 00:54:12.480
I have six months. I'm going to back to Poland
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.829
after... almost 30 years that I haven't been
00:54:15.829 --> 00:54:18.829
there. I will go back to Poland. I will research
00:54:18.829 --> 00:54:22.130
the libraries and I will try to, you know, try
00:54:22.130 --> 00:54:26.010
to absorb again the atmosphere, the culture,
00:54:26.170 --> 00:54:30.309
the Polish culture, go and visit again his villa
00:54:30.309 --> 00:54:34.349
in Zakopane, which is a small town in the mountains.
00:54:34.429 --> 00:54:36.949
He had a villa there and all, you know, there
00:54:36.949 --> 00:54:39.949
is so much artifacts that belongs to him, like
00:54:39.949 --> 00:54:45.269
clothing and scores and... furniture and everything
00:54:45.269 --> 00:54:49.869
else. And I will start, you know, doing a research
00:54:49.869 --> 00:54:52.809
and trying to put together a Szymanowski CD,
00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:58.030
which I finished this past summer. So at that
00:54:58.030 --> 00:55:02.130
moment, three years, four years ago, what I did
00:55:02.130 --> 00:55:05.909
is I recorded in video at home all the preludes.
00:55:06.670 --> 00:55:10.070
You know, all the nine preludes, opus one. And
00:55:10.070 --> 00:55:13.010
I also recorded the etudes opus four, but I wasn't
00:55:13.010 --> 00:55:15.869
quite happy. So they are not publicly available.
00:55:16.289 --> 00:55:22.150
Okay. I mean, they are good, but, you know. So
00:55:22.150 --> 00:55:26.849
then I decided I would do audio recording. You
00:55:26.849 --> 00:55:29.449
know, a very good quality audio recording. And
00:55:29.449 --> 00:55:32.530
that's what I did last summer. I recorded in
00:55:32.530 --> 00:55:35.750
audio all the preludes, all the etudes opus four.
00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:39.519
i have to learn new pieces so i learned the variations
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.659
of those three which is our i always like that
00:55:42.659 --> 00:55:45.559
since i ever since i first heard those pieces
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:48.519
in poland played by a classmate i love it so
00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:52.699
finally after 30 years i i you know i learned
00:55:52.699 --> 00:55:57.579
the piece and then um two masurkas i needed to
00:55:57.579 --> 00:56:00.539
complete the album with you know some short pieces
00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:04.980
and so i learned a couple of masurkas amazing
00:56:04.980 --> 00:56:09.269
and Is the album coming out soon or is it available?
00:56:09.590 --> 00:56:11.789
That album is already, I mean, it's finished.
00:56:12.110 --> 00:56:15.329
It's going to come out now in the summer, probably
00:56:15.329 --> 00:57:09.659
in the summer. So I want to talk about your origin
00:57:09.659 --> 00:57:14.099
story now. So you're starting your life from
00:57:14.099 --> 00:57:18.239
Argentina. And somehow you went to Poland and
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:20.960
studied for two years, which is great. And now
00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:24.400
you're in Texas. Wow, you are all over the map.
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:27.860
So tell us, how was music first introduced to
00:57:27.860 --> 00:57:31.260
you? And did you grow up in a maybe musical family?
00:57:31.820 --> 00:57:36.190
Nope. No. No musical family, no piano, no musical
00:57:36.190 --> 00:57:39.389
instruments, except for a radio and a TV. Really?
00:57:39.690 --> 00:57:45.670
So this is what also I want to emphasize, that
00:57:45.670 --> 00:57:51.969
by the purest thought that you need to be good
00:57:51.969 --> 00:57:55.760
and to be successful at something, Especially
00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:58.960
in music and art, you need to grow up in a musical
00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:02.420
family. You need to grow up with good teachers
00:58:02.420 --> 00:58:06.480
in a good environment. It's false. It's a very
00:58:06.480 --> 00:58:10.440
false statement. Because if we go by that, I
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:13.320
shouldn't be here talking to you. I should be
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:15.599
an engineer. I should be a doctor. I should be
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:19.090
something else than a pianist. a musician. I
00:58:19.090 --> 00:58:21.949
don't consider myself a pianist. I consider myself
00:58:21.949 --> 00:58:25.690
a musician first, then a teacher, then maybe
00:58:25.690 --> 00:58:30.489
a pianist. So by the traditional thought of,
00:58:30.489 --> 00:58:33.690
oh, you need to grow up in that environment,
00:58:34.150 --> 00:58:37.969
I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be here. I grew
00:58:37.969 --> 00:58:40.269
up in a very small town in northern Argentina,
00:58:40.650 --> 00:58:46.760
Tafibiejo, in a small province. in uh tucuman
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:50.940
is the province although my my mother took piano
00:58:50.940 --> 00:58:53.920
lessons when she was young but she never you
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:56.519
know went ahead because they didn't have money
00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:59.260
to buy a piano my parents didn't have money although
00:58:59.260 --> 00:59:02.039
they knew i loved piano and i asked them to to
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.119
take piano lessons i started taking piano lessons
00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.239
when i was eight but i didn't have a piano at
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:11.719
home so they were pay extra every week for me
00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:15.860
to go and practice in my teacher's piano. So
00:59:15.860 --> 00:59:19.960
I didn't have a piano 24 -7. I have a piano only
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:25.260
two hours per week to practice. It's later on
00:59:25.260 --> 00:59:28.780
when they were able, and it's not because they
00:59:28.780 --> 00:59:32.079
didn't want, piano in Argentina is still too
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:35.980
expensive. And so it's not, sometimes people
00:59:35.980 --> 00:59:39.820
in the United States don't understand how expensive
00:59:39.820 --> 00:59:43.840
it is for a family in another country to have
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:48.659
a car or to buy a piano. When the focus of those
00:59:48.659 --> 00:59:52.260
families is to have a good home, to have a steady
00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:55.760
home, and to have a good education for the children,
00:59:56.099 --> 00:59:59.659
and not necessarily about what you have as material
00:59:59.659 --> 01:00:03.639
things. So that's how I started piano. I asked
01:00:03.639 --> 01:00:06.329
them that I wanted to play piano because... I
01:00:06.329 --> 01:00:08.730
always felt attracted to the piano when I would
01:00:08.730 --> 01:00:11.710
see a piano on TV or in school, you know, when
01:00:11.710 --> 01:00:14.929
we were singing in kindergarten. I always felt
01:00:14.929 --> 01:00:18.730
that attraction to the instrument that I wouldn't
01:00:18.730 --> 01:00:22.050
feel with any other thing that surrounded me
01:00:22.050 --> 01:00:24.670
at that time. It was the piano. So kind of I
01:00:24.670 --> 01:00:27.550
was obsessed with the piano, but I didn't have
01:00:27.550 --> 01:00:30.829
the opportunity to have a piano. And my parents
01:00:30.829 --> 01:00:33.469
never forced us to do anything, so they waited
01:00:33.469 --> 01:00:37.099
for me. to ask for piano lessons. So I think
01:00:37.099 --> 01:00:39.280
I was seven or eight when I said, you know, mom,
01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:41.820
I want to take piano lessons, but we don't have
01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:43.860
a piano. How are you going to practice? I said,
01:00:43.900 --> 01:00:47.260
I want to take piano lessons. And that's how
01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:49.780
I started, you know. And when I say a small town,
01:00:50.019 --> 01:00:52.340
well, there wasn't, and I don't think there is
01:00:52.340 --> 01:00:55.300
any grand piano in that little town right now.
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.960
Then, so, Argentine, you went to college there
01:00:59.960 --> 01:01:04.820
as a music major? UNT here? No, no, no. No, no,
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:07.739
Argentina. Argentina, yes, yes. And actually
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:12.840
my university has the same letters, UNT, the
01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:17.460
actual university. No way. It's Universidad Nacional
01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:22.300
de Tucumán. So it's the same letters, UNT. It's
01:01:22.300 --> 01:01:28.760
very funny, yeah. So I, again, I took piano lessons
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:32.119
till I was about, you know. I finished high school.
01:01:32.739 --> 01:01:36.679
And then it was time to decide what career I
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:41.599
want to pursue in college. And I always liked
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:45.280
design. So I thought I would like to become an
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:52.639
architect. And of course, I enrolled at the university
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:59.869
in the career in music. And I lasted. Because
01:01:59.869 --> 01:02:03.429
I enrolled in both. I enrolled in engineering
01:02:03.429 --> 01:02:08.030
and I enrolled in music at the same time. And
01:02:08.030 --> 01:02:12.269
I lasted less than two months in the engineering
01:02:12.269 --> 01:02:17.010
university. And I quit because I loved so much
01:02:17.010 --> 01:02:20.409
what I was seeing in the school of music at the
01:02:20.409 --> 01:02:25.739
university that I just thought. I cannot spend
01:02:25.739 --> 01:02:31.360
one more second doing math and drawings and things
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:33.920
like that. I have to really dedicate myself to
01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:39.920
music. Wow. Then that led you to somehow Poland
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:44.079
for graduate school? Right. So before I finished...
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:48.300
At that time, the university in Argentina was
01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:53.119
six years, seven years for a music program. Not
01:02:53.119 --> 01:02:55.480
four like, you know, in the United States or
01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:58.000
right now is five. But at that time was a little
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:04.440
bit longer. And so before I finish, I knew I
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:07.800
wanted to leave Argentina. I knew I wanted to
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:12.199
study somewhere else. So at that time, there
01:03:12.199 --> 01:03:16.380
were. And of course, we didn't have any money.
01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.119
So I will have to go to a place that they will
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:22.179
help me financially, that they will give me,
01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:24.760
you know, they will pay for this, for the tuition
01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:28.340
and room and board and all that. So there were
01:03:28.340 --> 01:03:32.000
two advertising from the Czech Republic and from
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:39.000
the Polish government for studying music and
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:41.679
any other, you know, engineering, architecture,
01:03:42.019 --> 01:03:44.360
whatever you wanted. in those countries, they
01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:48.579
will pay for that. They will pay for, the only
01:03:48.579 --> 01:03:51.280
thing I needed to pay was my ticket getting there.
01:03:51.500 --> 01:03:56.179
Once I got there, I would be paid an spending
01:03:56.179 --> 01:04:02.199
every month and I will have room in a dorm and
01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:08.039
I will have one meal per day pay by the government.
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:11.989
So I decided to go to Poland. I don't know why,
01:04:12.090 --> 01:04:16.130
but I decided to go to Poland. So I sent my cassette
01:04:16.130 --> 01:04:19.050
tape audition to my teacher and she accepted
01:04:19.050 --> 01:04:23.269
me. And there I was the first time leaving my
01:04:23.269 --> 01:04:25.829
little town in northern Argentina, going to Poland.
01:04:25.989 --> 01:04:29.050
I did not speak the language. I still can't speak
01:04:29.050 --> 01:04:33.510
the language. It's too difficult. But I did.
01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:37.880
I studied there what you would call today almost
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:41.320
like an artist diploma. So you only take piano
01:04:41.320 --> 01:04:45.239
lessons once per week with your teacher. And
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:47.840
that's it. That's the only thing you do. Wow.
01:04:48.340 --> 01:04:51.900
So that's what I did in Krakow. That's what I
01:04:51.900 --> 01:04:54.880
did in Poland for two years. And my teacher,
01:04:55.039 --> 01:04:58.579
she's Polish, but she spoke Spanish. So she said,
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:02.099
let's do this. If you allow me to teach you in
01:05:02.099 --> 01:05:04.869
Spanish so I can keep. practicing my Spanish,
01:05:05.090 --> 01:05:08.409
I will teach you piano. I said, fine. Wow. And
01:05:08.409 --> 01:05:11.610
for two years, you spent your time there. She
01:05:11.610 --> 01:05:14.550
would introduce Polish as, you know, as we were
01:05:14.550 --> 01:05:18.050
doing the lessons and so on. But mostly they
01:05:18.050 --> 01:05:20.349
were in Spanish because she wanted to, you know,
01:05:20.349 --> 01:05:25.170
practice her Spanish with me. Right. And then
01:05:25.170 --> 01:05:31.429
so did the experience. changed you in what way,
01:05:31.429 --> 01:05:35.030
you know, artistically? What do you think? Well,
01:05:35.070 --> 01:05:42.750
when I went to Poland and I heard, you know,
01:05:42.750 --> 01:05:45.449
my classmates, people playing, I was in shock
01:05:45.449 --> 01:05:50.809
because I don't think I was at that level. Although,
01:05:51.090 --> 01:05:54.139
you know. My teacher accepted me, so probably
01:05:54.139 --> 01:05:56.980
I was not that bad, but I was in shock because
01:05:56.980 --> 01:05:59.579
I never heard people playing live like that.
01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:03.199
I always heard recordings and videos, but I didn't
01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:07.719
grow in an environment that have that high level
01:06:07.719 --> 01:06:11.340
of playing. Not everybody, I have to say, not
01:06:11.340 --> 01:06:14.360
everybody, but the ones who play well, they were
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:20.659
playing at a level I never encountered when I
01:06:20.659 --> 01:06:23.909
was, you know. a young student in Argentina.
01:06:24.750 --> 01:06:28.349
So I was shocked. So it made me work harder.
01:06:28.630 --> 01:06:32.170
It made me appreciate that opportunity that I
01:06:32.170 --> 01:06:36.690
have to develop my playing, my technique, my
01:06:36.690 --> 01:06:39.289
musicality, my knowledge of the world, because
01:06:39.289 --> 01:06:42.530
I went to Krakow, which is a fantastic city.
01:06:42.710 --> 01:06:46.329
It's a beautiful, beautiful city. So I felt very
01:06:46.329 --> 01:06:50.530
lucky and I took... I really took advantage of
01:06:50.530 --> 01:06:55.949
the opportunity. And I think that that really...
01:06:55.949 --> 01:07:00.329
One of the things that I remember from the time
01:07:00.329 --> 01:07:03.929
in Poland was developing my artistry, talking
01:07:03.929 --> 01:07:09.030
about the music in a different level that I hadn't
01:07:09.030 --> 01:07:13.449
experienced before. Really, instead of looking
01:07:13.449 --> 01:07:17.110
at the... sometimes at the very little minutiae
01:07:17.110 --> 01:07:19.309
of the music, talking about what this is going
01:07:19.309 --> 01:07:23.929
to sound like, what you want this to sound like.
01:07:25.550 --> 01:07:29.329
And that was working with my professor, you know,
01:07:29.349 --> 01:07:32.210
all these ideas, opening my mind about musical
01:07:32.210 --> 01:07:35.809
ideas, about voicing in the piano, fingering,
01:07:35.989 --> 01:07:41.309
you know, that was kind of new to me to have
01:07:41.309 --> 01:07:44.969
a... teacher talking at that level of artistry
01:07:44.969 --> 01:07:49.389
with me as a student. Wow. And then after Poland,
01:07:49.409 --> 01:07:51.730
it led you to the United States immediately?
01:07:52.449 --> 01:07:56.730
Right. Because I knew I wanted to continue my
01:07:56.730 --> 01:08:00.030
education. And, you know, I already finished
01:08:00.030 --> 01:08:02.769
the university, which was just an undergrad degree.
01:08:02.929 --> 01:08:07.110
As far as at that time, you could go with your
01:08:07.110 --> 01:08:11.730
music. music education. And so I knew I wanted
01:08:11.730 --> 01:08:14.530
to do something different. I knew there were
01:08:14.530 --> 01:08:17.550
other opportunities. There were other degrees
01:08:17.550 --> 01:08:20.590
like master's degree and doctoral degrees, but
01:08:20.590 --> 01:08:22.229
you needed to leave the country. You couldn't
01:08:22.229 --> 01:08:25.649
study that in Argentina, not even in Europe 30
01:08:25.649 --> 01:08:28.050
years ago. That was really the United States.
01:08:29.189 --> 01:08:34.750
So I have an uncle in New York and he said, yeah,
01:08:34.829 --> 01:08:37.930
before you go back to Argentina, come and visit
01:08:37.930 --> 01:08:41.409
me. And so I came for the first time to the United
01:08:41.409 --> 01:08:45.449
States for three weeks over the summer to visit
01:08:45.449 --> 01:08:48.890
him. And at that time, he already had arranged
01:08:48.890 --> 01:08:53.390
for me to practice at Steinway Hall in New York
01:08:53.390 --> 01:08:56.909
City. He had arranged some interviews with piano
01:08:56.909 --> 01:09:01.590
teachers in New York. Wow. So I thought I was
01:09:01.590 --> 01:09:05.149
going to New York to be a tourist. Little I knew.
01:09:05.850 --> 01:09:09.229
I was practicing the piano and having lessons
01:09:09.229 --> 01:09:12.170
with different teachers. And then one of the
01:09:12.170 --> 01:09:14.369
teachers said, you have to come back here. You
01:09:14.369 --> 01:09:18.649
have to keep, you know, studying your master's
01:09:18.649 --> 01:09:21.050
degree, your doctoral degree. And that's how
01:09:21.050 --> 01:09:24.170
I, you know, I end up just staying in the United
01:09:24.170 --> 01:09:27.970
States and going to different schools to complete,
01:09:28.050 --> 01:09:30.069
you know, not complete, but continue my education.
01:09:30.789 --> 01:09:34.489
Yeah. So your studies continued in New York or
01:09:34.489 --> 01:09:38.949
elsewhere? I studied in New York privately and
01:09:38.949 --> 01:09:42.810
then I got a scholarship from the Organization
01:09:42.810 --> 01:09:46.949
of American States that paid everything to go
01:09:46.949 --> 01:09:49.430
to study at LSU, Louisiana State University.
01:09:50.010 --> 01:09:56.229
So I did my master's there and then because I
01:09:56.229 --> 01:09:59.529
wanted to do a little bit more with Latin American
01:09:59.529 --> 01:10:04.760
music at that time, I started searching for performers
01:10:04.760 --> 01:10:08.060
of Latin American music who taught at different
01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:12.800
institutions. And I came across the name of Noema
01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:16.600
Fernandez, who is an American Cuban pianist who
01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:20.359
taught at the University of Arizona. So I submitted
01:10:20.359 --> 01:10:25.159
a tape and I got accepted with a scholarship,
01:10:25.420 --> 01:10:31.369
with an assistantship. And that's how I... ended
01:10:31.369 --> 01:10:34.529
up in Arizona and completing my doctoral degree
01:10:34.529 --> 01:10:38.750
at the University of Arizona. I see. Yeah. You
01:10:38.750 --> 01:10:41.649
mentioned LSU. I have some friends who went to
01:10:41.649 --> 01:10:44.430
LSU for piano. It's a really good school there.
01:10:44.569 --> 01:10:46.949
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good school. Yes. Wonderful.
01:10:48.250 --> 01:10:52.250
Wow. So then now you're in ELPA. So not only
01:10:52.250 --> 01:10:55.229
you're performing, but I think being an educator
01:10:55.229 --> 01:10:58.310
is a huge part of who you are. So is it OK if
01:10:58.310 --> 01:11:01.449
we start talking about your teaching styles and
01:11:01.449 --> 01:11:06.710
so on? Yes. Yes. So so just to clarify, after
01:11:06.710 --> 01:11:09.729
right before I graduated from the University
01:11:09.729 --> 01:11:13.869
of Arizona, I before I even completed my course
01:11:13.869 --> 01:11:16.510
load as a doctoral student, I was already applying
01:11:16.510 --> 01:11:20.630
for jobs. Because I wanted to know what will
01:11:20.630 --> 01:11:25.310
be to apply for jobs, where the jobs were asking
01:11:25.310 --> 01:11:29.689
at that particular time from the candidates,
01:11:29.909 --> 01:11:32.810
what I will have to do during my job application,
01:11:33.170 --> 01:11:36.109
during my interview and what I will have to teach.
01:11:36.489 --> 01:11:39.250
So kind of I start doing that entrepreneurship
01:11:39.250 --> 01:11:45.090
very early and applying for jobs. I applied,
01:11:45.329 --> 01:11:48.890
I got interviewed by many, and I got an offer
01:11:48.890 --> 01:11:52.329
from the University of Texas at El Paso, which
01:11:52.329 --> 01:11:56.390
is just four hours from Tucson, where I was.
01:11:56.529 --> 01:11:59.069
And that's how I started at the University of
01:11:59.069 --> 01:12:05.170
Texas at El Paso 23 years ago. And I was there
01:12:05.170 --> 01:12:08.510
for 20 years. I mean, I went from a visiting
01:12:08.510 --> 01:12:11.579
professor to a full... tenure track professor.
01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:15.979
And then three years ago, this opportunity here
01:12:15.979 --> 01:12:21.739
at the University of North Texas opened. I did
01:12:21.739 --> 01:12:26.600
not think I would leave El Paso because I was
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:28.600
there already for 20 years. I thought I would
01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:33.180
probably retire in El Paso. But this was an excellent
01:12:33.180 --> 01:12:37.460
opportunity for specifically piano pedagogy,
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:40.680
which is... We talk at the very beginning, which
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:45.899
is what my interest right now is. And I applied
01:12:45.899 --> 01:12:48.460
for the position and I got the position. So I've
01:12:48.460 --> 01:12:50.920
been here for two and a half years. And this
01:12:50.920 --> 01:12:55.500
University of North Texas, you said it's one
01:12:55.500 --> 01:13:02.520
of the biggest... Yes. It's a college of music.
01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:05.760
It's a college of music. And we have, I think,
01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:09.800
15, almost close to 1 ,600 students in music
01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:14.880
only. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's a huge place. We
01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:23.119
have world -class faculty and students, Grammy
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:28.909
Awards from the institution. um so it is this
01:13:28.909 --> 01:13:33.390
exciting environment because of the level of
01:13:33.390 --> 01:13:36.529
of the students that we accept to come here and
01:13:36.529 --> 01:13:39.210
also of course the level of the faculty and and
01:13:39.210 --> 01:13:42.210
you know although we are in denton it's only
01:13:42.210 --> 01:13:45.409
40 minutes from dallas and 40 minutes from fort
01:13:45.409 --> 01:13:50.359
worth which are this metroplex area full of museums,
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:53.960
orchestras. Van Cliburn is just down the road
01:13:53.960 --> 01:14:00.060
and so it's very exciting especially for pianists
01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:04.159
because Texas is a big piano state, very big.
01:14:04.300 --> 01:14:08.399
Not big in the sense of geography, which is big,
01:14:08.579 --> 01:14:12.979
right? It's very big. But also in terms of quality
01:14:12.979 --> 01:14:19.460
and piano education is fantastic. Yeah, music
01:14:19.460 --> 01:14:23.340
education. I hear you. I used to live in Florida,
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:25.600
Tallahassee, and I met a lot of people from Texas,
01:14:25.659 --> 01:14:30.819
too. Culturally, it's huge. People don't associate
01:14:30.819 --> 01:14:36.250
Texas that way. But it is. Yes. Again, those
01:14:36.250 --> 01:14:41.569
preconceived ideas that are harming sometimes
01:14:41.569 --> 01:14:45.609
the opinions and how we perceive things. Yes.
01:14:45.609 --> 01:14:50.289
Yes. Yes. So then Aaron Williams, so who were
01:14:50.289 --> 01:14:52.289
your former students, mentioned specifically
01:14:52.289 --> 01:14:57.890
about your approach to education. Now, he specifically
01:14:57.890 --> 01:15:00.890
told me about the fundamentals like structure,
01:15:01.069 --> 01:15:06.039
form. Soul phase. Yes. Soul phase. And deep score
01:15:06.039 --> 01:15:09.060
study. Well, remaining open to contemporary repertoire
01:15:09.060 --> 01:15:13.100
and new ways of engaging audiences. So what are
01:15:13.100 --> 01:15:15.439
the most common problems you see in students
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:19.399
today? You know, people, kids have memory issues.
01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:25.550
Anxiety. Oh, huge. This is not just, I'm not
01:15:25.550 --> 01:15:28.750
just talking about this common performance anxiety,
01:15:28.949 --> 01:15:31.710
but the core of the performance anxiety issue
01:15:31.710 --> 01:15:35.390
is a big debate, I think, and then superficial
01:15:35.390 --> 01:15:39.609
interpretation and so on. So what are your thoughts
01:15:39.609 --> 01:15:46.090
on those? I grew up in a very structured, you
01:15:46.090 --> 01:15:53.149
know, European conservatory education where you
01:15:53.149 --> 01:15:58.750
needed to fit that particular mold. They didn't,
01:15:58.750 --> 01:16:02.630
that type of structure, which is important and
01:16:02.630 --> 01:16:08.869
is necessary, but we need to be flexible. So
01:16:08.869 --> 01:16:11.289
I grew up with that. I grew up with a lot of
01:16:11.289 --> 01:16:16.319
structure. in my education, good or bad, but
01:16:16.319 --> 01:16:19.739
I have a lot of structures. You know, I have
01:16:19.739 --> 01:16:22.600
to do specific things. I have to do etudes. I
01:16:22.600 --> 01:16:25.260
have to do technique. I have to do repertoire.
01:16:25.619 --> 01:16:28.460
I was taught how to practice. I was taught how
01:16:28.460 --> 01:16:31.659
to memorize, which I was lucky enough. And all
01:16:31.659 --> 01:16:33.380
this happened when I went to the university.
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:36.220
You know, when finally I graduated from high
01:16:36.220 --> 01:16:39.079
school and I went to the university, I got this
01:16:39.079 --> 01:16:42.069
teacher, Lucia Herrera, which was incredible.
01:16:42.189 --> 01:16:46.590
She taught me how to practice. She taught me
01:16:46.590 --> 01:16:49.170
what I would do first, second, third, and what
01:16:49.170 --> 01:16:51.729
would be the progressions, how I would do. You
01:16:51.729 --> 01:16:54.689
practice this first, you do it 10 times, you
01:16:54.689 --> 01:16:57.149
do it three times, you do it one time, and then
01:16:57.149 --> 01:16:59.250
you move on, and then you put these two together.
01:16:59.449 --> 01:17:01.729
And so she taught me all that. She taught me
01:17:01.729 --> 01:17:05.369
how to memorize piece, sometimes without playing
01:17:05.369 --> 01:17:08.229
them at the piano, but memorize with the score.
01:17:09.449 --> 01:17:11.829
Which is the most important thing. And I don't
01:17:11.829 --> 01:17:13.989
think when I talk to my students today about
01:17:13.989 --> 01:17:18.689
this, they look at me like I'm speaking a language
01:17:18.689 --> 01:17:21.970
that they don't understand. Because there is
01:17:21.970 --> 01:17:24.970
so much emphasis and always been. But I think
01:17:24.970 --> 01:17:30.829
today that how many hours they practice and I
01:17:30.829 --> 01:17:33.670
say how many hours they waste because they waste.
01:17:33.729 --> 01:17:36.550
They do not really practice. They make noise.
01:17:38.820 --> 01:17:40.760
One of the first thing I said, who plays the
01:17:40.760 --> 01:17:43.819
piano? The fingers. No, the fingers don't play
01:17:43.819 --> 01:17:46.979
the piano. The brain plays the piano. You know,
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:49.760
I was in a class yesterday and I said, who, what
01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:53.699
part of the body plays the pedal? The foot. No,
01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:58.859
the ear plays the pedal. The ear and the brain
01:17:58.859 --> 01:18:03.100
use the foot to go down and up and down. But
01:18:03.100 --> 01:18:06.239
it's not the foot, it's the ear. It's not even,
01:18:06.300 --> 01:18:10.899
you know, it's just the ear. So those misconceptions
01:18:10.899 --> 01:18:15.939
that comes from sometimes students who may have
01:18:15.939 --> 01:18:18.079
great piano teachers, but those piano teachers
01:18:18.079 --> 01:18:23.420
don't see these areas. And so what I want to
01:18:23.420 --> 01:18:26.739
say is I grew up with a very structured instruction.
01:18:27.180 --> 01:18:31.140
So I believe in that. But at the same time, I
01:18:31.140 --> 01:18:34.680
think that that conservatory type of training
01:18:34.680 --> 01:18:39.210
where if you don't fit to that. particular mall,
01:18:39.489 --> 01:18:43.710
you are out. You cannot become a musician. It's
01:18:43.710 --> 01:18:48.689
ill. It's really ill also because now we know
01:18:48.689 --> 01:18:51.989
a lot of things through neuroscience and through
01:18:51.989 --> 01:18:57.470
psychology that we are not all the same. But
01:18:57.470 --> 01:19:02.369
we all should have the same options and we should
01:19:02.369 --> 01:19:07.250
all have the same possibilities given to us.
01:19:07.989 --> 01:19:11.810
to develop talent, to develop education, to develop
01:19:11.810 --> 01:19:16.670
many things. So I believe in the structure of
01:19:16.670 --> 01:19:20.050
a conservatory system, but I think we need to
01:19:20.050 --> 01:19:23.090
be flexible because we may have students who
01:19:23.090 --> 01:19:26.949
have some learning disabilities who can be fantastic
01:19:26.949 --> 01:19:29.729
musicians. And if we don't know how to teach
01:19:29.729 --> 01:19:32.510
them and we said, oh no, you are not good enough,
01:19:32.630 --> 01:19:35.250
just go and do something else. You are really
01:19:35.250 --> 01:19:39.329
denying somebody. something beautiful, which
01:19:39.329 --> 01:19:42.250
is becoming a performer or becoming a musician.
01:19:42.670 --> 01:19:45.989
Right. Those trainings are there for us to use
01:19:45.989 --> 01:19:49.649
rather than for us to fit into the mold, right?
01:19:49.970 --> 01:19:53.550
Exactly. So while I believe in that, I also believe
01:19:53.550 --> 01:19:57.369
that we can bend those and we should be flexible
01:19:57.369 --> 01:20:00.789
because we all learn very different. We all have
01:20:00.789 --> 01:20:04.699
mental issues. We all have... At different levels,
01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:07.279
we are not perfect. We should not be perfect.
01:20:08.539 --> 01:20:11.800
So we need to contemplate those things when we
01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:14.279
have students, when we teach students. If the
01:20:14.279 --> 01:20:17.880
student is not getting something, it's the teacher's
01:20:17.880 --> 01:20:21.899
job to find a way to explain to that student
01:20:21.899 --> 01:20:25.039
a hundred different ways until the student gets
01:20:25.039 --> 01:20:27.439
it. Of course, there is a limit. There may be
01:20:27.439 --> 01:20:33.380
some really learning, very, very... learning
01:20:33.380 --> 01:20:35.699
disabilities, you know, very high learning disabilities.
01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:40.619
And sometimes we cannot really reach those students.
01:20:40.899 --> 01:20:45.539
But let's talk about more normal things. It's
01:20:45.539 --> 01:20:48.159
the job of a teacher to teach the student how
01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:50.779
to practice, how to memorize. It's not the job
01:20:50.779 --> 01:20:53.220
of a teacher to sit and listen to the student
01:20:53.220 --> 01:20:56.520
and say, oh, that's wrong, come back, listen,
01:20:56.619 --> 01:20:58.829
you know. practice more and come back next week.
01:20:59.609 --> 01:21:02.649
We all saw those type of teaching and they're
01:21:02.649 --> 01:21:06.710
still around, those type of teachers. But that's
01:21:06.710 --> 01:21:09.350
not a good teaching. A good teacher should spend
01:21:09.350 --> 01:21:13.050
time trying to find out how I help these students,
01:21:13.310 --> 01:21:16.510
how I will help this particular student, which
01:21:16.510 --> 01:21:20.189
I may have to give a completely opposite direction
01:21:20.189 --> 01:21:23.590
and opposite indication to what I gave my previous
01:21:23.590 --> 01:21:28.260
students an hour ago. Yeah. Well, even with the
01:21:28.260 --> 01:21:31.279
same student, you may contradict sometimes like
01:21:31.279 --> 01:21:33.399
from lesson one to lesson two, no? It's like
01:21:33.399 --> 01:21:35.699
you said one thing and the next day, next lesson
01:21:35.699 --> 01:21:39.060
is like completely opposite. Because we all process
01:21:39.060 --> 01:21:41.619
things differently. We all understand things
01:21:41.619 --> 01:21:45.260
sometimes in a different way. And again, I keep
01:21:45.260 --> 01:21:48.399
saying this is the job of the teacher to make
01:21:48.399 --> 01:21:52.720
that student progress. Any progress. I don't
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:54.960
care if it's here or it's up there. That will
01:21:54.960 --> 01:21:57.180
be according to the student also, you know, to
01:21:57.180 --> 01:22:00.319
the ability of the student. But any type of progress
01:22:00.319 --> 01:22:02.579
is the job of the teacher. That's what they are
01:22:02.579 --> 01:22:06.960
getting paid for. Privately or through an institution,
01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:12.300
we get paid to teach. Right. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
01:22:12.500 --> 01:22:14.859
And I've been doing that for decades as well.
01:22:14.939 --> 01:22:18.810
And so. And also, you know, these days, it's
01:22:18.810 --> 01:22:21.369
surprising to me. Like, I live in Brooklyn, and
01:22:21.369 --> 01:22:25.710
then I have young, there are young Gen Z, young
01:22:25.710 --> 01:22:27.949
professionals live around me. So they would sign
01:22:27.949 --> 01:22:30.409
up piano lessons with me. They would come, and
01:22:30.409 --> 01:22:33.949
then they would watch YouTube clips, and then
01:22:33.949 --> 01:22:37.710
actually they can quite play by mimicking. But
01:22:37.710 --> 01:22:42.630
I'm, so in a way, the role of piano teachers.
01:22:43.609 --> 01:22:46.229
had changed because they can really literally
01:22:46.229 --> 01:22:49.750
learn something on video but obviously that's
01:22:49.750 --> 01:22:52.609
not learning that's not education so that's where
01:22:52.609 --> 01:22:56.250
we come in so we have to really change our mindset
01:22:56.250 --> 01:23:00.130
about teaching otherwise you know they can just
01:23:00.130 --> 01:23:03.189
copy whatever they want on youtube and then you
01:23:03.189 --> 01:23:05.829
know here here i am i can i can play somewhat
01:23:05.829 --> 01:23:10.930
chopin sound like right right yeah so uh so um
01:23:11.720 --> 01:23:14.380
Coming back to the beginning of this question
01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:18.260
that you mentioned about anxiety and memorization
01:23:18.260 --> 01:23:24.479
and lack of interpretation, what I see today
01:23:24.479 --> 01:23:28.539
is that almost every pianist sounds exactly the
01:23:28.539 --> 01:23:33.079
same like the next pianist. What I'm missing,
01:23:33.420 --> 01:23:38.630
and this is not because I'm getting old, But
01:23:38.630 --> 01:23:42.229
I'm missing when you could hear a recording and
01:23:42.229 --> 01:23:44.729
say, oh, that's Gilles. Oh, that's Horowitz.
01:23:45.010 --> 01:23:49.189
Oh, that's Hoffman. Oh, you know, that's Horowitz.
01:23:49.310 --> 01:23:53.550
I mean, Cortot. You could hear each one has a
01:23:53.550 --> 01:23:58.310
very, very distinctive sound. Each one has a
01:23:58.310 --> 01:24:01.770
very distinctive phrasing and a very distinctive
01:24:01.770 --> 01:24:07.119
approach to the music they were playing. And
01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:11.140
what I see today is almost like factory training.
01:24:11.859 --> 01:24:16.600
They all, of course, the level of the technical
01:24:16.600 --> 01:24:20.060
ability of these people today is incredible.
01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:23.920
I keep saying, Cortot will audition today to
01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:28.119
a music school and he wouldn't be accepted if
01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:30.279
he was in the bad days when he played a lot of
01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:32.420
wrong notes. But he didn't care about that. These
01:24:32.420 --> 01:24:34.600
people didn't care about that. Horowitz didn't
01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:36.920
care about playing the wrong notes. And there
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:43.680
is so much emphasis in perfection. And that vertical
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:47.720
plane, which I call the typewriting, is that
01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:52.340
they are typewriting on a keyboard, that they
01:24:52.340 --> 01:24:55.119
miss the horizontal, they miss the different
01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:58.319
layers. And I'm not talking about everybody,
01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:01.640
of course, but I see a tendency of... everybody
01:25:01.640 --> 01:25:06.060
plays the same way. Everybody phrasing Chopin
01:25:06.060 --> 01:25:08.880
the same way. And the Chopin ballad on measure,
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:11.659
they all do exactly the same thing. So there
01:25:11.659 --> 01:25:15.199
is no personality in their playing. And I would
01:25:15.199 --> 01:25:18.439
rather listen somebody have a memory slip and
01:25:18.439 --> 01:25:22.319
playing bad notes than playing so perfect but
01:25:22.319 --> 01:25:26.680
so boring and so not a musical but an artistic
01:25:26.680 --> 01:25:33.000
way of playing. The level, the development of
01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:39.020
the technique today is just amazing. These students
01:25:39.020 --> 01:25:43.319
can play things at a speed that nobody would
01:25:43.319 --> 01:25:47.640
dare to play that speed 50 years ago. But they
01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:50.579
are missing the most important part, which is
01:25:50.579 --> 01:25:53.840
the poetry of the music, which is the poetry
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:57.770
of the phrasing, which is the... the the layers
01:25:57.770 --> 01:26:00.869
of sound because you can play fast doesn't mean
01:26:00.869 --> 01:26:04.489
that you have to play fast because you can play
01:26:04.489 --> 01:26:07.270
loud doesn't mean that you have to play loud
01:26:07.270 --> 01:26:11.289
because you may you know impress your neighbors
01:26:11.289 --> 01:26:14.430
but you are not going to impress a musician with
01:26:14.430 --> 01:26:17.109
that type of plane And you mentioned something
01:26:17.109 --> 01:26:19.630
also about performance anxiety. Of course, today
01:26:19.630 --> 01:26:22.949
we are allowed to talk about those things. People
01:26:22.949 --> 01:26:25.289
in the past, teachers in the past wouldn't talk
01:26:25.289 --> 01:26:28.470
about that. But also I think it's because many
01:26:28.470 --> 01:26:33.210
teachers, perhaps they did not experience that.
01:26:33.670 --> 01:26:36.029
So although I think that everybody experienced
01:26:36.029 --> 01:26:38.590
that, but they didn't want to talk about that
01:26:38.590 --> 01:26:44.649
or it wasn't. strong enough to really derail
01:26:44.649 --> 01:26:47.869
their performances. But we have students that
01:26:47.869 --> 01:26:50.109
they deal with that, and they are very good students
01:26:50.109 --> 01:26:53.510
and excellent musicians. So as teachers, we should
01:26:53.510 --> 01:26:56.029
read about that. There are so many techniques.
01:26:56.250 --> 01:26:59.909
There are so many things that we could be, even
01:26:59.909 --> 01:27:02.130
if we don't apply those, we could be referring
01:27:02.130 --> 01:27:07.159
our students to. Read. to seek help by somebody
01:27:07.159 --> 01:27:10.600
who can deal or know how to deal with those type
01:27:10.600 --> 01:27:13.800
of things instead of ignoring them. Right. Oh,
01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:15.659
well, you need to practice more, you know. Right,
01:27:15.659 --> 01:27:18.140
right, yeah. That practicing more doesn't make
01:27:18.140 --> 01:27:21.640
any sense when the problem is not hours of practices,
01:27:21.699 --> 01:27:26.239
it's how you practice. That's right, right. And
01:27:26.239 --> 01:27:29.880
also, it's all about context, too. How they think
01:27:29.880 --> 01:27:32.279
of music, how they think about music performance.
01:27:32.699 --> 01:27:35.640
Yes. Yeah, yeah. If it's a constant pressure,
01:27:35.880 --> 01:27:38.760
like, oh, I have to play in the competition,
01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:42.720
that sort of mindset actually, you know, will
01:27:42.720 --> 01:27:46.880
kill the, I think, talent and ability. You know,
01:27:46.899 --> 01:27:50.939
music making is more to do with, you know, in
01:27:50.939 --> 01:27:54.729
the community, for example, or, you know. making
01:27:54.729 --> 01:27:57.649
music for something else something good cause
01:27:57.649 --> 01:28:01.390
then totally the it changes right yeah it changed
01:28:01.390 --> 01:28:05.350
completely changes yes yes now so speaking of
01:28:05.350 --> 01:28:07.850
community i know you built a wonderful community
01:28:07.850 --> 01:28:12.550
back in el paso and where you engaged with community
01:28:12.550 --> 01:28:16.149
and also uh university of texas at el paso for
01:28:16.149 --> 01:28:20.229
20 years and that's where my friend uh aaron
01:28:20.229 --> 01:28:24.170
met you right and el paso is a very unique you
01:28:24.170 --> 01:28:27.949
know, borderland place where West Texas, Southern
01:28:27.949 --> 01:28:31.649
New Mexico, and literally Mexico meet. Mexico,
01:28:31.729 --> 01:28:34.750
yes. And then that's the way you started this
01:28:34.750 --> 01:28:38.729
Borderland Chopin Festival. That's amazing. Of
01:28:38.729 --> 01:28:42.289
course, to promote the legacy and music of Chopin.
01:28:42.649 --> 01:28:45.710
Yeah? Yes. So can you tell us? And is it still
01:28:45.710 --> 01:28:48.069
on, going on, right? Oh, yeah, still on, still
01:28:48.069 --> 01:28:52.689
on. So before I left UTEP, I had the opportunity
01:28:52.689 --> 01:28:58.029
to talk to a donor, and I presented this project
01:28:58.029 --> 01:29:03.689
that... We used to have in El Paso a Chopin festival.
01:29:03.729 --> 01:29:07.489
It was organized by a local pianist. And this
01:29:07.489 --> 01:29:10.909
person died and then nothing happened for two
01:29:10.909 --> 01:29:13.829
or three years. So I said, well, we need to recover
01:29:13.829 --> 01:29:17.390
that because those concerts were very popular,
01:29:17.550 --> 01:29:20.689
were sold out free to the public, but they were
01:29:20.689 --> 01:29:24.979
standing up, standing. only, standing room only.
01:29:25.159 --> 01:29:27.859
So they were very popular and they were all based
01:29:27.859 --> 01:29:32.739
on Chopin music. So of course the pianist could
01:29:32.739 --> 01:29:35.060
play other pieces but the majority of the program
01:29:35.060 --> 01:29:37.260
they played was Chopin because it was called
01:29:37.260 --> 01:29:42.680
the Chopin Festival. So I decided to somehow
01:29:42.680 --> 01:29:47.359
continue but in a different way. So I created
01:29:47.359 --> 01:29:50.899
this Borderlands Chopin Festival that started
01:29:50.899 --> 01:29:55.520
really with a local festival for the students
01:29:55.520 --> 01:29:59.439
from Las Cruces, El Paso and Ciudad Juarez, which
01:29:59.439 --> 01:30:03.600
is New Mexico, Texas and Mexico. So there are
01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:06.819
all these three cities that are very close together.
01:30:07.359 --> 01:30:10.579
And so for the students only from the area. So
01:30:10.579 --> 01:30:15.569
the idea is we will bring. artists and performance
01:30:15.569 --> 01:30:18.029
from other places and they will work with the
01:30:18.029 --> 01:30:19.909
students and we will have a little competition
01:30:19.909 --> 01:30:26.789
and that's happened every two years so that's
01:30:26.789 --> 01:30:29.930
still going on I just finished the third one
01:30:29.930 --> 01:30:37.750
this past March and we are able to give of course
01:30:37.750 --> 01:30:40.670
prizes to the students but I think more important
01:30:40.670 --> 01:30:45.579
because I love that area of El Paso, but it's
01:30:45.579 --> 01:30:49.119
very isolated. People need to understand that
01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:54.460
to drive from El Paso to Dallas takes 10 hours.
01:30:56.380 --> 01:30:59.579
And you are not even on the other side of the
01:30:59.579 --> 01:31:02.800
state. You are not by the Louisiana border yet,
01:31:02.880 --> 01:31:06.560
and it takes 10 hours. So a flight from El Paso
01:31:06.560 --> 01:31:09.579
to Dallas is an hour and 20, an hour and 40 minutes.
01:31:10.399 --> 01:31:14.119
The closest bigger cities that El Paso have will
01:31:14.119 --> 01:31:18.100
be Phoenix, about seven hours, Tucson. But they
01:31:18.100 --> 01:31:21.079
are not that much bigger. They are bigger, but
01:31:21.079 --> 01:31:23.039
they are not that much bigger. It's not a metropolitan
01:31:23.039 --> 01:31:27.579
area like Dallas or New York or L .A., you know,
01:31:27.619 --> 01:31:30.460
which when I talk about big, big, big, big cities.
01:31:30.859 --> 01:31:34.739
So it's a very beautiful area, but it's very
01:31:34.739 --> 01:31:37.819
isolated, geographically isolated. So the idea
01:31:37.819 --> 01:31:42.420
of this festival is to bring. people, artists
01:31:42.420 --> 01:31:46.199
to the area, perform, give masterclasses to the
01:31:46.199 --> 01:31:49.119
students, have a competition where they have
01:31:49.119 --> 01:31:52.560
to play at least one Chopin piece. But then the
01:31:52.560 --> 01:31:57.119
first prize of each category is an all -paid
01:31:57.119 --> 01:32:02.020
summer camp somewhere else, including the college
01:32:02.020 --> 01:32:06.180
level that is a summer festival in Europe. So
01:32:06.180 --> 01:32:08.760
if they get accepted to a summer festival in
01:32:08.760 --> 01:32:12.020
Europe, we pay for all that. They get paid for
01:32:12.020 --> 01:32:15.920
the ticket, the tuition and everything. But every
01:32:15.920 --> 01:32:19.319
three years, we have an international competition.
01:32:19.500 --> 01:32:22.739
And this is the big one. Of course, the local
01:32:22.739 --> 01:32:25.479
students don't compete on that one. This is really
01:32:25.479 --> 01:32:28.359
an international level competition that we are
01:32:28.359 --> 01:32:32.380
having the second one in 2027. And the prices
01:32:32.380 --> 01:32:37.260
are like first price is $20 ,000. $15 ,000, $10
01:32:37.260 --> 01:32:40.359
,000, performance with El Paso Symphony Orchestra,
01:32:40.859 --> 01:32:45.239
solo recitals back in El Paso. We cover all their
01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:49.180
expenses, not airfare, but we cover the hotel,
01:32:49.439 --> 01:32:52.260
the meals, everything during the four, five,
01:32:52.399 --> 01:32:55.300
six days that they are going to be present in
01:32:55.300 --> 01:32:58.880
El Paso during the competition. Really? And then
01:32:58.880 --> 01:33:03.020
what are the demographics, like age groups? For
01:33:03.020 --> 01:33:06.520
the local competition, we have by school age.
01:33:06.600 --> 01:33:09.939
So we have elementary school, we have middle
01:33:09.939 --> 01:33:13.579
school, high school, and college level. For the
01:33:13.579 --> 01:33:17.420
international one, it's 18 to 35 years old. I
01:33:17.420 --> 01:33:20.979
see. And the international one takes place every
01:33:20.979 --> 01:33:23.739
three years. Every three years. So the first
01:33:23.739 --> 01:33:27.979
one was 2024 and was very successful. And again,
01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:31.119
we bring a very, you know, if you look at the
01:33:31.119 --> 01:33:36.600
jury, you know, Antonio Pompavaldi, Kevin Kenner,
01:33:36.699 --> 01:33:39.000
you know, people who even won the Chopin competition
01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:42.840
in Warsaw, like Kevin Kenner. We had as, I guess,
01:33:42.899 --> 01:33:46.710
artists that we have a... recital opening night
01:33:46.710 --> 01:33:50.130
before the competition was Lata Jocheva. She's
01:33:50.130 --> 01:33:58.829
a Plednev student. It's a very high level. We
01:33:58.829 --> 01:34:01.510
have fantastic players coming from all over the
01:34:01.510 --> 01:34:05.880
country. the world to compete for that. And that
01:34:05.880 --> 01:34:08.079
was the first one we ever did international.
01:34:08.439 --> 01:34:10.720
So now the second one we are already preparing
01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:15.100
for that is going to take place in May 2027.
01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:18.699
And then so it's coming up next year. So when
01:34:18.699 --> 01:34:23.220
should pianists register? When do you start accepting?
01:34:23.479 --> 01:34:26.539
We are going to start pretty soon. So we already
01:34:26.539 --> 01:34:28.819
have the web page. Everything is ready to go.
01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:33.960
We didn't announce yet. OK. It's coming in the
01:34:33.960 --> 01:34:36.579
next couple of weeks. So pianists could already
01:34:36.579 --> 01:34:39.359
start signing up or, you know, looking at the
01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:42.600
repertoire. The webpage is working and all the
01:34:42.600 --> 01:34:46.819
rules, regulation, repertoire is there. The application
01:34:46.819 --> 01:34:50.600
is not open yet. Right. And what's the web address?
01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:55.739
Do you know? The web address is borderlineshopincompetition
01:34:55.739 --> 01:35:01.840
.com. Borderline Chopin. I will send you a link.
01:35:02.060 --> 01:35:04.079
Yes. And I will list that in the show notes as
01:35:04.079 --> 01:35:07.420
well. Great. I know we're talking, you know,
01:35:07.420 --> 01:35:10.460
for a long time and we're coming toward the end
01:35:10.460 --> 01:35:12.000
of our conversation. How are we doing? Are you
01:35:12.000 --> 01:35:14.880
OK? Oh, I'm fine. I love this. Thank you so much.
01:35:14.880 --> 01:35:18.729
Oh, thank you. So how do you. Think classical
01:35:18.729 --> 01:35:22.050
music can remain relevant and continue to influence
01:35:22.050 --> 01:35:26.430
people in a positive way and evolve in this very
01:35:26.430 --> 01:35:29.670
busy, crazy world. You know, I'm not afraid.
01:35:30.189 --> 01:35:32.649
Some people say that classical music is going
01:35:32.649 --> 01:35:35.449
to die and all that. And yes, it's going to die
01:35:35.449 --> 01:35:38.789
if we don't reach the people we need to reach.
01:35:39.689 --> 01:35:44.329
When I perform, I'm not performing for my colleagues.
01:35:45.260 --> 01:35:48.960
I'm not performing for the people who play what
01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:52.140
I play and who can criticize me. I'm performing
01:35:52.140 --> 01:35:55.840
for the people who don't know about music. I'm
01:35:55.840 --> 01:35:58.159
performing for the people who enjoy listening
01:35:58.159 --> 01:36:07.060
to music. So if we change a little bit the optics
01:36:07.060 --> 01:36:10.430
of why we do what we do, I think that music,
01:36:10.729 --> 01:36:14.649
classical music, would always be relevant. One
01:36:14.649 --> 01:36:17.170
of the things I did for a long time in El Paso,
01:36:17.210 --> 01:36:19.149
and I'm going to start doing here in Denton,
01:36:19.310 --> 01:36:22.810
I play a lot of community concerts. You know,
01:36:22.850 --> 01:36:25.529
I got a grant from the city of El Paso and from
01:36:25.529 --> 01:36:32.210
the Texas of the Arts to perform concerts in
01:36:32.210 --> 01:36:38.109
public libraries, retirement homes, schools.
01:36:39.550 --> 01:36:44.090
places where people don't have access specifically
01:36:44.090 --> 01:36:46.149
to classical music. You know, there are so many
01:36:46.149 --> 01:36:51.470
communities and that they don't have music going
01:36:51.470 --> 01:36:53.550
into the communities that they will have to go
01:36:53.550 --> 01:36:55.609
to a concert hall. They will have to go to the
01:36:55.609 --> 01:36:57.949
symphony hall. Well, they don't have transportation.
01:36:58.430 --> 01:37:02.689
They don't have money to pay $45, $75, $200 for
01:37:02.689 --> 01:37:06.729
a ticket. They don't. But they still love music
01:37:06.729 --> 01:37:11.210
and they still enjoy music. So we need to go
01:37:11.210 --> 01:37:15.829
to those places. We need to get down from our
01:37:15.829 --> 01:37:22.130
ivory towers, get down and play for them in their
01:37:22.130 --> 01:37:26.250
environments. I play in pianos that keys were
01:37:26.250 --> 01:37:29.149
not working, pianos that they were out of tune.
01:37:29.409 --> 01:37:33.350
I brought electronic keyboards, full -size electronic
01:37:33.350 --> 01:37:37.130
keyboards to some of these places. This is not
01:37:37.130 --> 01:37:39.760
about you. This is not about Chopin. This is
01:37:39.760 --> 01:37:41.720
not about Beethoven. This is not about Bach.
01:37:41.880 --> 01:37:44.380
This is about them. That's the whole purpose.
01:37:44.520 --> 01:37:47.539
It's about them. So it doesn't matter in what
01:37:47.539 --> 01:37:52.039
piano you play. Of course, it bothers us as pianists.
01:37:52.039 --> 01:37:54.399
The piano is out of tune. This key doesn't work.
01:37:54.859 --> 01:37:57.439
But guess what? You need to learn how to survive
01:37:57.439 --> 01:37:59.439
that. You need to learn how to do it. Because
01:37:59.439 --> 01:38:01.720
the people listening, they may not know that
01:38:01.720 --> 01:38:06.060
the piano is out of tune. They may not. know
01:38:06.060 --> 01:38:08.340
that that key didn't sound and you are skipping
01:38:08.340 --> 01:38:10.560
that key every time you have to play it because
01:38:10.560 --> 01:38:13.300
it's not going down or it's not coming up, whatever
01:38:13.300 --> 01:38:16.060
is the problem with the piano. They don't know
01:38:16.060 --> 01:38:17.880
that. You are there for a different purpose.
01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:21.899
You are not there to play faithful Bach, Chopin.
01:38:22.100 --> 01:38:26.619
You are there to play music for them. So that's
01:38:26.619 --> 01:38:30.619
a different perspective. We need to change. We
01:38:30.619 --> 01:38:35.619
need to go to the communities. People have been
01:38:35.619 --> 01:38:39.260
doing this for decades. This is not a new concept,
01:38:39.439 --> 01:38:42.180
by the way. This is a concept that many artists,
01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:45.520
many orchestras are doing. I think we just need
01:38:45.520 --> 01:38:49.899
to do it more. But also we need to program accordingly
01:38:49.899 --> 01:38:56.300
to them. You cannot take the orchestra to a community
01:38:56.300 --> 01:38:58.979
center and play only the music that you think
01:38:58.979 --> 01:39:01.380
they should be listening to. Because it's the
01:39:01.380 --> 01:39:04.329
music you are programming next. week in the big
01:39:04.329 --> 01:39:08.029
concert hall. So when I go and I play for them,
01:39:08.130 --> 01:39:11.890
what do I play? Fur Elise. Everybody loves Fur
01:39:11.890 --> 01:39:15.869
Elise. Bach's Prelude in C. Everybody who loves
01:39:15.869 --> 01:39:19.029
the rock prelude in C. You know, a Chopin Nocturne,
01:39:19.029 --> 01:39:22.090
the E -flat. I mean, everybody heard that even
01:39:22.090 --> 01:39:26.149
on TV, in advertising, in commercials. They have
01:39:26.149 --> 01:39:29.390
a reference. They know that. In between those
01:39:29.390 --> 01:39:32.850
things, I may add something new to them. I may
01:39:32.850 --> 01:39:36.550
add a tango. I may add, you know, a Gershwin.
01:39:36.630 --> 01:39:40.819
I may add Volcom. But it's just something different.
01:39:41.340 --> 01:39:44.239
The bulk of the program is things that will make
01:39:44.239 --> 01:39:47.800
them feel good. And I always introduce the piece.
01:39:48.000 --> 01:39:50.840
One of the other things I think that is the worst
01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:54.279
thing about classical music today is that rigid,
01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:57.859
rigid, rigid. You cannot applaud between movements.
01:39:58.000 --> 01:40:00.340
If you are in a concert hall and you applaud
01:40:00.340 --> 01:40:02.680
between two movements, people look at you and
01:40:02.680 --> 01:40:07.180
penalize you. Like some of the conductors did.
01:40:08.300 --> 01:40:11.819
Using really foul language back into the people
01:40:11.819 --> 01:40:15.520
who applaud in a wrong place. A wrong place?
01:40:15.619 --> 01:40:18.619
Who said that is the wrong place? Who says that
01:40:18.619 --> 01:40:21.899
is the wrong place? So instead of punishing those
01:40:21.899 --> 01:40:25.079
people, we need to educate those people. And
01:40:25.079 --> 01:40:28.920
we cannot get mad because they interrupt your...
01:40:30.789 --> 01:40:33.710
your concentration going from the first movement
01:40:33.710 --> 01:40:36.289
to the second movement. Who cares about that?
01:40:36.369 --> 01:40:38.189
If you're a professional, you should be able
01:40:38.189 --> 01:40:40.829
to keep your concentration regardless of the
01:40:40.829 --> 01:40:43.909
applause, regardless if there's a bomb outside,
01:40:44.329 --> 01:40:48.449
you know, noises. If you're truly, if you're
01:40:48.449 --> 01:40:52.210
truly a musician, you should be able to keep
01:40:52.210 --> 01:40:55.890
going and should not affect the way you perform
01:40:55.890 --> 01:40:59.119
that next movement. Shouldn't. Because you're
01:40:59.119 --> 01:41:02.359
a professional, so it should not affect. So I
01:41:02.359 --> 01:41:05.140
think that's one of the problems that I see.
01:41:06.739 --> 01:41:09.819
People being penalized because they upload on
01:41:09.819 --> 01:41:12.520
the wrong place, because they cough. Of course,
01:41:12.579 --> 01:41:19.079
the cell phones is always a problem. But we need
01:41:19.079 --> 01:41:22.859
to educate those people and not by punishing
01:41:22.859 --> 01:41:29.659
them. We can't do that. Otherwise, we are seen
01:41:29.659 --> 01:41:34.079
as this elitist music. And who said that you
01:41:34.079 --> 01:41:37.140
cannot applaud between movements? Where is that
01:41:37.140 --> 01:41:40.939
on the score? In Mozart's time, people were drinking
01:41:40.939 --> 01:41:45.619
and eating. And so when came that rigid view
01:41:45.619 --> 01:41:48.640
of classical music that you need to sit for two
01:41:48.640 --> 01:41:56.020
hours quiet without making any noise? Burly breathing
01:41:56.020 --> 01:41:59.819
because you may distract the performer. Sorry,
01:42:00.180 --> 01:42:06.579
I get very agitated because it bothers me if
01:42:06.579 --> 01:42:08.479
it happens to me, but I should be able to keep
01:42:08.479 --> 01:42:12.640
going and do not punish those people like they
01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:17.460
do. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things also
01:42:17.460 --> 01:42:21.180
is talking about the music. Why performers just
01:42:21.180 --> 01:42:27.319
bow? play, bow and leave. What about saying something
01:42:27.319 --> 01:42:31.319
about the music you are going to perform? I perform
01:42:31.319 --> 01:42:34.439
sometimes the most, there is one of the tangos
01:42:34.439 --> 01:42:38.560
that I play that is called elastic tango. And,
01:42:38.640 --> 01:42:42.260
you know, each beat keeps getting longer and
01:42:42.260 --> 01:42:46.159
longer, like elasticity, and it gets clusters
01:42:46.159 --> 01:42:49.680
and random improvisations going up and down the
01:42:49.680 --> 01:42:54.000
keyboard. And when I explain to the people that
01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:57.380
this is a funny thing, it's a comic thing, when
01:42:57.380 --> 01:43:01.359
I explain the stretching of the beat, they love
01:43:01.359 --> 01:43:04.859
the music. But if you listen without the context,
01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:08.399
without explaining, they will hate the music
01:43:08.399 --> 01:43:12.119
because they wouldn't be able to understand what
01:43:12.119 --> 01:43:15.119
you're playing. So especially if you are going
01:43:15.119 --> 01:43:17.819
to introduce music that does not use a tonal
01:43:17.819 --> 01:43:22.100
language. I think you need to explain. But even
01:43:22.100 --> 01:43:24.460
if you use music, if you play music that use
01:43:24.460 --> 01:43:28.340
a tonal language, I still think that the people
01:43:28.340 --> 01:43:31.460
want to hear your opinion, not just your interpretation,
01:43:31.840 --> 01:43:35.100
but your opinion, just a context, just a few
01:43:35.100 --> 01:43:38.800
words about the piece you're going to play. And
01:43:38.800 --> 01:43:41.659
I think we are missing a lot of that in classical
01:43:41.659 --> 01:43:45.159
concerts. Just go to a rock concert and they
01:43:45.159 --> 01:43:48.090
talk all the time. They just don't just play
01:43:48.090 --> 01:43:52.289
music. They talk. They talk to the public. They
01:43:52.289 --> 01:43:55.409
do the crowd work, yes. Right. So that rigid
01:43:55.409 --> 01:43:58.770
concept of, I don't think it's the right approach
01:43:58.770 --> 01:44:02.670
to classical music. Yeah. Well, thank you. It's
01:44:02.670 --> 01:44:06.510
been a really enjoyable conversation. So before
01:44:06.510 --> 01:44:09.430
we go, are there any, so you mentioned the album
01:44:09.430 --> 01:44:13.439
is coming up. this summer so this episode will
01:44:13.439 --> 01:44:16.180
be released in may so about a month or two months
01:44:16.180 --> 01:44:19.380
we look forward to the album right do you know
01:44:19.380 --> 01:44:24.500
the title yet no yet not yet okay it's all it's
01:44:24.500 --> 01:44:28.000
all shimanovsky it's all shimanovsky it's just
01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:31.000
kind of denying what we talked for for almost
01:44:31.000 --> 01:44:34.619
two hours um that i like to put different things
01:44:34.619 --> 01:44:38.119
but This is probably the only project that I
01:44:38.119 --> 01:44:41.939
will do that is just one composer. Yeah, that
01:44:41.939 --> 01:44:45.859
sounds great. And is there anything else that
01:44:45.859 --> 01:44:48.399
we should know that any project or initiatives
01:44:48.399 --> 01:44:52.680
coming up for you? That's the most, you know,
01:44:52.680 --> 01:44:54.779
I would say the most significant one because
01:44:54.779 --> 01:44:58.500
I spend a lot of time and effort and I think
01:44:58.500 --> 01:45:01.010
it's going to be. I mean, I'm very happy. I'm
01:45:01.010 --> 01:45:04.430
never happy with the performances, with the recordings,
01:45:04.550 --> 01:45:07.369
of course. I listen very critical to myself,
01:45:07.489 --> 01:45:12.210
but I think that this is good. I'm very happy
01:45:12.210 --> 01:45:16.270
with the product right now. So again, that's
01:45:16.270 --> 01:45:19.670
the most immediate one. So for our listeners,
01:45:19.770 --> 01:45:22.149
especially pianists and piano enthusiasts, I
01:45:22.149 --> 01:45:26.359
encourage you to visit. oscarmacchiani .net to
01:45:26.359 --> 01:45:29.640
explore more of Dr. Macchiani's work, including
01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:32.720
his recordings and writings and recent projects,
01:45:32.819 --> 01:45:35.279
and then just to be able to stay in touch with
01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:38.340
him. Well, Oscar, thank you so much for being
01:45:38.340 --> 01:45:40.960
here today. Now, but before I let you go, we
01:45:40.960 --> 01:45:42.939
have one more thing to do. It's called rapid
01:45:42.939 --> 01:45:45.560
fire questions. And I ask silly questions, but
01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:48.420
I want you to take them seriously because those
01:45:48.420 --> 01:45:53.079
questions may reveal who you are. Please answer
01:45:53.079 --> 01:45:55.979
each question with the shortest response possible.
01:45:56.060 --> 01:46:00.640
No explanation is necessary. Okay. Question number
01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:05.579
one. What is your comfort food? Every. Okay.
01:46:06.220 --> 01:46:09.920
How do you like your coffee in the morning? With
01:46:09.920 --> 01:46:15.000
milk and two Splenda. Great. Cats or dogs? Dogs.
01:46:15.819 --> 01:46:19.880
Sunrise or sunset? Sunrise. I'm a morning person.
01:46:20.239 --> 01:46:25.409
Okay. Summer or winter? Winter. I just love to
01:46:25.409 --> 01:46:30.510
be home, cuddling and cozy. Yeah, great. Now,
01:46:30.590 --> 01:46:34.210
level two. What skill have you always wanted
01:46:34.210 --> 01:46:37.189
to learn but haven't had a chance to? Painting.
01:46:37.810 --> 01:46:42.170
Good one. What is your word or words to live
01:46:42.170 --> 01:46:46.670
by? Be curious. Ah, good one. Favorite venue
01:46:46.670 --> 01:46:52.010
you have ever performed in? I would say because
01:46:52.010 --> 01:46:54.829
how I felt when I performed and I thought it
01:46:54.829 --> 01:46:57.949
was a good performance, St. James Piccadilly
01:46:57.949 --> 01:47:01.149
in London. What is the most important quality
01:47:01.149 --> 01:47:06.670
you look for in other people? Sincerity. And
01:47:06.670 --> 01:47:09.189
name a composer you wish more people knew about.
01:47:09.789 --> 01:47:14.630
Karol Szymanowski. Of course. Last two questions.
01:47:15.100 --> 01:47:18.460
Name one piece in your current playlist. It doesn't
01:47:18.460 --> 01:47:22.439
have to be classical music. What I listened recently
01:47:22.439 --> 01:47:26.560
is a piece called Gracias a la Vida, Thank You
01:47:26.560 --> 01:47:33.260
to Life by Mercedes Sosa, which is a popular
01:47:33.260 --> 01:47:37.060
singer. She's no longer with us, but she's from
01:47:37.060 --> 01:47:43.640
Tucumán, from the same city. It's been used in
01:47:43.640 --> 01:47:46.460
one of the films, the recent films, you know,
01:47:46.479 --> 01:47:48.380
international films, they use it as a background
01:47:48.380 --> 01:47:51.159
music, but it's just giving thank you to life,
01:47:51.439 --> 01:47:54.699
basically. Last question. Fill in the blank.
01:47:54.939 --> 01:47:59.739
Music is blank. Music is everything to me. Wonderful.
01:48:00.220 --> 01:48:02.680
Oscar, thank you so much for joining us today,
01:48:02.800 --> 01:48:05.720
for sharing your artistry, your deep thoughts
01:48:05.720 --> 01:48:09.140
and journey. And to our listeners, thank you
01:48:09.140 --> 01:48:11.699
for spending this time with us. I hope this conversation
01:48:11.699 --> 01:48:14.680
stays with you. Please check out Dr. Macchione's
01:48:14.680 --> 01:48:17.939
website at oscarmacchione .net. Be sure to like
01:48:17.939 --> 01:48:20.479
this video and subscribe. Feel free to leave
01:48:20.479 --> 01:48:23.920
a comment and or share your thoughts in the comments
01:48:23.920 --> 01:48:27.899
or on social media and tag us at The Piano Pod.
01:48:28.329 --> 01:48:30.930
We'll see you next time on The Piano Pot. Thank
01:48:30.930 --> 01:48:33.689
you so much, Oscar. Thank you. It was a pleasure.
01:48:33.810 --> 01:48:34.789
Thank you. Thank you.