#96 | Breaking Fashion Norms to Empower LGBTQ Kids: Guidance & Courage in Gender-Free Clothing

Heather
00:00:06
Welcome back to Just Breathe.

Heather
00:00:08
I am delighted that you are here today and that you have taken some time out of your day or perhaps you are listening while you were on a walk or in the kitchen or in the gym or whatever you're doing.

Heather
00:00:23
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Heather
00:00:28
And I like I've been doing on a few shows prior to this, I have started the show by reading a review, an Apple podcast review by a listener and just think it is a really fun way to elevate other people's voices and thoughts and encourage others to leave me their thoughts.

Heather
00:00:52
Whether it's on Apple podcasts or Google or just via email.

Heather
00:00:58
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Heather
00:01:04
And as always, if this is your review that I have chosen to read today, please either DM me or email me and I will send you a free copy of my ebook the language of LGBTQIA.

Heather
00:01:22
So today's review is Lauren Bo, 21 and they say love this podcast.

Heather
00:01:30
I was searching for resources to be the best supportive mom I could be to my preteen now teen and found this amazing podcast.

Heather
00:01:40
It was just what I needed.

Heather
00:01:43
I knew I needed some guidance from a parent who had experience through a similar journey and Heather was there with perfect content and even talked with me personally through email.

Heather
00:01:53
The community Heather has built through this podcast and Facebook page has given me the confidence to not be fearful through this journey, but rather to embrace it and encourage my team to be their authentic self.

Heather
00:02:07
And I just want to say thank you.

Heather
00:02:08
Thank you so much for these lovely thoughts and words.

Heather
00:02:14
And please if this is your review, please reach out to me.

Heather
00:02:17
I would be happy to do a check in as well.

Heather
00:02:21
And just kind of a side note here in this review you they mentioned a Facebook page which has not been live for quite some time.

Heather
00:02:31
However, coming in the next few weeks I am launching a new community and it is a community that will include access to my digital course, it will include access to weekly live calls with me and it will be a community where you can talk with other parents who are on a similar journey where you can pose questions and thoughts and all of that.

Heather
00:03:02
So really kind of wrapping up together in one bundle all of these support pieces that you all have been asking for.

Heather
00:03:11
So I'm really, really getting excited to launch this for you.

Heather
00:03:15
Put this out in the world.

Heather
00:03:16
So stay tuned and you will see more information soon.

Heather
00:03:22
So today's guest I am just really really thrilled to introduce you to and to tell you a little about.

Heather
00:03:31
I just got off of our interview before this and was really looking forward to speaking with her.

Heather
00:03:39
It had been a long time in scheduling and coming and even though perhaps on paper we may look like we do very, very different things, we actually have so much in common as far as our mission and missions and the way that we see parenting, the way that we see our children.

Heather
00:04:02
And so I just am really excited for you to listen to this conversation and to be able to learn more yourself.

Heather
00:04:12
So my guest today is Elizabeth Brunner and she is the founder and CEO of Stereotype and what Stereotype is is a gender free kids fashion brand that aims to break free from traditional gendered clothing by creating what she has coined as blended fashion, a mix of girl and boy aesthetics that are equal in value and defined by no one.

Heather
00:04:41
Inspired by her girl boy twins to start Stereotype, Elizabeth would observe her twins who at a young age would often naturally be draw to wear pieces from each other's closets to create their own unique blended fashion style that authentically represented who they are and how they want to dress.

Heather
00:05:05
From watching her twins dress, Elizabeth was inspired by the way they joyfully broke the rules of traditional dressing and soon realized it was time to unlearn the rules of gendered fashion.

Heather
00:05:19
She did this by supporting and encouraging her twins to discover their individuality by embracing a blended fashion approach where any piece of clothing could be worn by any child regardless of gender.

Heather
00:05:34
Stereotype is the second disruptive fashion company Elizabeth has started.

Heather
00:05:39
After studying fashion design at California College of the Arts, she found herself at odds with wasteful fashion industry standards and it inspired her to take action.

Heather
00:05:50
This led her to launch her first fashion business, Piece by Piece, a pioneering line of one of a kind high end garments that reused discarded sample swatches and leftover fabric from larger fashion houses that would typically be sent to landfills.

Heather
00:06:07
I'm really, really excited to bring Elizabeth onto the show.

Heather
00:06:11
So with further ado, here is Elizabeth Brunner.

Host
00:06:27
Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting, your LGBTQ team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

Host
00:06:40
My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.

Host
00:06:44
I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.

Host
00:06:54
Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a Cozy chat.

Host
00:07:11
Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Elizabeth
00:07:29
Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Elizabeth
00:07:31
I am so happy that you are here today and that you've made time out of your very busy creative schedule.

Elizabeth
00:07:40
You are going to bring a ton of value to everyone listening.

Elizabeth
00:07:43
So thank you so much for being here.

Guest
00:07:45
Well, thank you for having me, Heather.

Guest
00:07:47
I'm excited to talk with you.

Heather
00:07:49
Likewise.

Elizabeth
00:07:50
So I would love to just start kind of right at the very beginning of how you came into doing what you are doing now, how you came up with the idea.

Elizabeth
00:08:04
I know a little bit of your design background, so it certainly was a.

Elizabeth
00:08:09
A piece of it.

Elizabeth
00:08:10
But really, could you tell everyone what inspired you to create stereotypes?

Guest
00:08:17
So stereotype is actually inspired by my girl, boy twins.

Guest
00:08:22
And they inspired the idea when they started dressing themselves at a young age.

Guest
00:08:27
They were around age 4 when they started digging into their own clothes and putting their own outfits together.

Guest
00:08:33
And my daughter naturally wanted to wear my son's clothing and my son naturally wanted to wear my daughter's clothing.

Guest
00:08:40
And it, it was a really interesting observation to make.

Guest
00:08:44
They're twins, so obviously they have the same size and, you know, the same clothing pretty much in general in terms of play, but they were gravitating towards opposite gender clothing, which really planted the seed in me for, you know, creating a clothing line at the very beginning.

Guest
00:09:02
It didn't, but it did plant a seed for the idea of, like, maybe there could be something here.

Guest
00:09:07
And then as time went on and I got more interested in possibly starting a new company is really when I started digging into clothing and how it could really affect their lives growing up in terms of being positive with whatever they decided to wear, regardless of gender.

Guest
00:09:26
So it was really a lot of self reflection and work on moving beyond gender norms to suit my children's own desires and needs without any judgment.

Elizabeth
00:09:38
That is really, really cool.

Elizabeth
00:09:39
And I think that that is something that's first of all very, very needed right now.

Heather
00:09:44
Right.

Elizabeth
00:09:45
And second, something that I think a lot of people are.

Elizabeth
00:09:51
It brings up a lot of different emotions for people ranging from, you know, very fearful to super excited.

Heather
00:09:59
Right.

Elizabeth
00:10:00
And we were talking a little bit before we started recording about the idea of gendered clothing, non gendered clothing, and the wording, like how we talk about this and why that is so important.

Elizabeth
00:10:18
So I wonder if you could just shed a little light on that and some of your thoughts on that.

Guest
00:10:22
Well, language is very important, for sure.

Guest
00:10:25
Words matter.

Guest
00:10:26
So for me Being very specific about how I was describing the clothing line, it's not gender neutral, it's gender free, which basically means I'm not necessarily removing gender from it, but I'm not putting it in a category that genderizes my items.

Guest
00:10:43
So everything is made for boys and girls, and there's an element of feminine and masculine in my clothing designs.

Guest
00:10:51
And so I coined the term blended fashion because that's more appropriate for what I have created.

Guest
00:10:57
So I'm not necessarily removing gender.

Guest
00:10:59
I do call it gender free, but specifically because it doesn't belong in a category.

Guest
00:11:03
It's a category all on its own.

Guest
00:11:06
And I think that's really important too, because it's not my job to define my children, it's my job to support them.

Guest
00:11:12
And if my son wants to wear something more feminine, I'm going to allow that.

Guest
00:11:16
And he is free to do so.

Guest
00:11:18
The same for my daughter, she wants to wear head to toe black camo dinosaur.

Guest
00:11:22
She's allowed to do that.

Guest
00:11:24
And I support my children in doing that.

Guest
00:11:26
And this, this clothing line is really a reflection of supporting my kids, therefore all kids.

Guest
00:11:30
But it extends to adults as well.

Guest
00:11:33
And really, you know, learning about yourself and being an individual and growing and expanding and making space for different ideas about who you are.

Elizabeth
00:11:44
Absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:11:45
And I do like that because I think that is something that, you know, kids tend to really play with and we don't really think about it necessarily, perhaps when they are young, but as they reach kind of the adolescent teenager, Young adult age is when you tend to be more aware of it.

Elizabeth
00:12:07
Right.

Elizabeth
00:12:08
And at least you know, kind of in my experience of observing with my children and their friends and just society as a whole.

Elizabeth
00:12:17
And I, I think that by creating this blended fashion, instead of stating it's gender free or not gender free, but general, neutral or non gendered does give space.

Elizabeth
00:12:33
It gives space to everyone involved, whether it's the child, the parent, the teenager, to really say, oh my gosh, like, I can do that, I'm allowed to do that.

Elizabeth
00:12:47
Which I think is a really, really cool thing.

Guest
00:12:50
So let me give you some context too, because actually the reason that I really specifically designed it gender free is because I was noticing my daughter was getting very different reactions to dressing more, quote, unquote, tomboyish than my son dressing in more feminine styles.

Guest
00:13:06
So the reaction for my daughter was she got none.

Guest
00:13:09
She had no pushback.

Guest
00:13:11
Nobody said a word about anything.

Guest
00:13:12
She wore, she wears like a sports jersey, a baseball cap backwards to school.

Guest
00:13:17
No one ever said anything.

Guest
00:13:19
But when my son decided he wanted to wear a skirt or something more feminine, he would get side looks, whispers and points.

Guest
00:13:27
And that was from adults as well as friends.

Guest
00:13:30
So the outside of our home reaction to our kids dressing beyond their gender was not received equally.

Guest
00:13:39
And that really sparked the idea for stereotype as well, is that this is unacceptable to me as a parent that my son is being treated differently just because he's wearing something that's, you know, quote unquote, more feminine.

Guest
00:13:51
And my daughter is not receiving any sort of negative feedback for dressing more masculine.

Guest
00:13:58
So for me, it was really having that observation on the outside world with the outside world and realizing that this is not an acceptable way to be and my child should not be treated differently just because of what they wear and choose to wear.

Guest
00:14:14
And he's a child.

Guest
00:14:16
I mean, this was when my children are homeschooled now, but this is when they were six, so very young.

Heather
00:14:22
Right.

Guest
00:14:22
And it's when their imaginations are really, you know, at their peak and are just, you know, him dressing in a skirt or a dress is pure joy and radiance for him.

Guest
00:14:33
Same with my daughter.

Guest
00:14:33
She loves to wear head to toe black.

Guest
00:14:35
She feels strong.

Guest
00:14:36
She was wearing a black panther mask all the time.

Guest
00:14:39
And I remember just, just her feeling, her power.

Guest
00:14:43
And so for me, it was observing like, well, what is the behavior I'm seeing with these, with these options that they're choosing for themselves and am I going to support that?

Guest
00:14:50
And the answer for me was yes, I am.

Elizabeth
00:14:54
Absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:14:55
Absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:14:56
And I applaud you for that because I'm sure there were days that, that was very, very difficult and very heartbreaking for you to make those observations and to see the societal reaction.

Elizabeth
00:15:12
Right.

Elizabeth
00:15:12
Which is sadly not surprising.

Elizabeth
00:15:15
But going about this in the way you did, I mean, first of all, naming it stereotype is fantastic because it's a lovely little zinger there.

Guest
00:15:29
Yes, it's.

Guest
00:15:30
It's pushing beyond stereotypes.

Guest
00:15:31
Yeah, for sure.

Elizabeth
00:15:32
Yes.

Elizabeth
00:15:33
I mean, it really is.

Heather
00:15:34
And I love that.

Elizabeth
00:15:35
Which is then.

Elizabeth
00:15:36
And I think every time that there's someone like you that, that does something like this, that creates something that like this and is willing to have conversations about seeing our kids fully for who they are and making these observations of what really lights them up.

Heather
00:15:58
Right.

Elizabeth
00:15:58
Whether it is the way they're dressing or the toys they're playing with or the people that they're friends with and you know, as they get older, who they love and, you know, and just how they feel comfortable going through life and kind of taking away that.

Elizabeth
00:16:19
The expectation that perhaps that we had Grown up with.

Heather
00:16:22
Right.

Elizabeth
00:16:22
There's a lot of expectation, a lot of things that we've kind of been pre programmed with, so to speak, and allowing that to drop away, which sounds like came through, you know, a lot of self reflection for you.

Elizabeth
00:16:35
I know it did for me as well.

Elizabeth
00:16:37
And dropping that and just being like, wow, like look at this kid just glow.

Elizabeth
00:16:43
Look at this kid just thrive when I remove all those layers.

Guest
00:16:48
Right, right, yeah.

Guest
00:16:51
The need to label is very instinctual for a lot of people because we are so deeply conditioned and we're conditioned in our home from childhood, you from, from infancy really.

Guest
00:17:01
And then, you know, we go out into the world.

Guest
00:17:03
We're conditioned by the outside world, we're conditioned by, you know, our religion.

Guest
00:17:09
You know, there's culture, there's many ways that we're conditioned.

Guest
00:17:12
I think for me it was really removing what was what is no longer working for me.

Guest
00:17:18
And that's very personal.

Elizabeth
00:17:19
Right.

Guest
00:17:20
That does take a lot of deep self reflection and you have to be able to do that.

Guest
00:17:25
And for me it was like this is about my kids and my kids who I.

Guest
00:17:29
Whom I love unconditionally.

Guest
00:17:31
And if that's really true, then there's no condition on anything that they can do.

Guest
00:17:37
They're always going to be loved and I need to be true to that.

Guest
00:17:39
And that meant I had no judgment on.

Guest
00:17:42
My kids weren't wanting to wear anything beyond their gender.

Guest
00:17:46
The judgment came from the outside world.

Guest
00:17:48
But I had to be prepared to face that and stand with my kids if there was any pushback.

Guest
00:17:53
And there was a couple of times and I had no problem standing up and stating the fact is my son can wear whatever he wants.

Guest
00:18:02
And I think that that does come.

Guest
00:18:04
That courage takes time and you have to be willing to do some self reflection and make space for.

Guest
00:18:09
Is this really mine?

Guest
00:18:11
Is this really what I believe now?

Guest
00:18:14
Because it was planted so long ago, is it true for me now?

Guest
00:18:17
And sometimes the answer may be yes, but sometimes the answer may be no as well.

Guest
00:18:21
And I think just making space to ask that question will give you a lot of expansion as an individual.

Guest
00:18:28
And that is something that's needed for your kids.

Elizabeth
00:18:32
It really is.

Elizabeth
00:18:33
And I think that our kids, one of the many, many beautiful gifts of having children is many times they force us to look at things in a very different light.

Elizabeth
00:18:44
And we come to a place where there are, there are two very clear options, right.

Elizabeth
00:18:49
We can really understand and step into unconditional love or we can stay, you know, hidden by all the stuff.

Elizabeth
00:19:01
Right.

Elizabeth
00:19:01
That that's just was there before.

Elizabeth
00:19:05
And, and doing that work is hard.

Elizabeth
00:19:08
It's.

Elizabeth
00:19:09
It can be very hard.

Elizabeth
00:19:11
It can be very uncomfortable, but it's so very worth it.

Elizabeth
00:19:16
And not only for personal, but for the relationship that then you're creating with your child.

Elizabeth
00:19:25
And I just, I, you know, I am, I am thrilled for you because this is something that you realized at such a young age for your children.

Elizabeth
00:20:31
Mine were so much older when I had these epiphany moments where I was like, oh my gosh.

Heather
00:20:38
Right.

Elizabeth
00:20:39
Like, of course.

Elizabeth
00:20:40
And, and not that I didn't, you know, love my kids and wouldn't have laid down in front of a train for them before, but it was just a different kind of seeing them.

Elizabeth
00:20:48
I didn't see them then the way I see them now.

Elizabeth
00:20:52
Right.

Elizabeth
00:20:53
And so being able to do that, not being afraid to do that and you know, and kind of to your point, knowing that when you do face whatever comes at you from society, that.

Guest
00:21:10
You'Re okay with that you're clear in who you are.

Guest
00:21:12
Well, it, it's interesting too because it's, it's really about.

Guest
00:21:15
You said, oh, I had these epiphanies later.

Guest
00:21:18
Well, you don't know what you don't know.

Guest
00:21:20
And so when you have those epiphanies, I mean, they're amazing moments of self learning.

Guest
00:21:27
Right.

Guest
00:21:27
And this was really, for me, it was like, oh, I need to unlearn some things that no longer work for me and I'm going to recalibrate to learning something new.

Guest
00:21:35
And I think that's really important as well.

Guest
00:21:36
Just as a self development for anyone.

Guest
00:21:39
Right.

Guest
00:21:40
You don't have to be a parent.

Guest
00:21:41
Like, this is just self development in general.

Guest
00:21:43
And so making space for.

Guest
00:21:45
Okay, this was planted.

Guest
00:21:46
Maybe I don't agree with it anymore.

Guest
00:21:48
Let me think about it.

Guest
00:21:49
Why don't I agree with it?

Guest
00:21:51
What is bothering me about it?

Guest
00:21:52
And it does take quite a bit of self reflection and there can be a lot of fear there.

Guest
00:21:57
I mean, there it was fear for me.

Guest
00:21:58
I didn't want my son to get bullied.

Guest
00:22:00
I mean, that was my fear.

Guest
00:22:02
That was what I was up against.

Guest
00:22:03
Okay, how am I going to give him the tools to understand he is not doing anything wrong?

Guest
00:22:09
Well, those tools are going to come from me because I'm going to make sure he knows that.

Guest
00:22:13
So it was really creating a safe space and language around what he was experiencing and making sure he knew he was not wrong.

Guest
00:22:21
My daughter, again, she never had any issues.

Guest
00:22:23
We've never had to have that conversation, but she could see the contrast Even at a young age that she was getting over my son.

Guest
00:22:32
And, you know, again, that sparked.

Guest
00:22:35
Sparked me to, you know, really continue on the path of building this company and this brand and spreading this message, which it's really all about.

Elizabeth
00:22:43
Yes, I just.

Heather
00:22:45
I think it is really, really.

Elizabeth
00:22:47
It's really, really lovely that you have done this, because it is kind of a dual message, right?

Elizabeth
00:22:52
You get to put something physical out into the world that has such an important personal message, such an important societal message.

Elizabeth
00:23:01
And so what an awesome gift that you've given everyone.

Elizabeth
00:23:08
I'm wondering, just out of curiosity, once you launched this brand, once you, you know, started getting kind of getting this, working it through your mind and really getting clarity on how you wanted to present it to the world, did you have any pushback?

Elizabeth
00:23:24
And how was it difficult for you to propose this to the people that you began to bring this idea to?

Guest
00:23:34
So I would say I didn't have any initial pushback.

Guest
00:23:37
I mean, I shared the idea with my inner circle, and my inner circle gave me a lot of positive feedback.

Guest
00:23:44
And even if it wasn't my inner circle or it was somebody that I was like, yeah, I'm working on this business and love to hear what you think.

Guest
00:23:50
The amount of times that I heard from adults, whether they had children or not, that the idea gave them goosebumps and it was exciting, or that they wished that the clothing line was around for them when they were kids because they either didn't get to express themselves the way they were wanted to, and they felt that that was something that was really lacking in their life.

Guest
00:24:13
I had one person tell me, you know, as a male, I wanted to wear pink as a child, and my mom wouldn't let me.

Guest
00:24:19
And I finally bought my first pair of pink shoes, and I love wearing them.

Guest
00:24:23
So, you know, we hold on to these ideas for decades, right?

Guest
00:24:27
And we're just.

Guest
00:24:28
We're making ourselves smaller to fit into a box that really doesn't exist.

Guest
00:24:33
And so for me, it was really removing these layers.

Guest
00:24:35
These are invisible barriers that we create around ourselves because we're told by the outside world how to be.

Guest
00:24:42
And so that was great.

Guest
00:24:44
And so the pushback I have received has been more through social media.

Guest
00:24:50
And when I read the feedback that is negative, I just hear a lot of fear in there.

Guest
00:24:56
And I get it, because people are comfortable knowing that things are supposed to be a specific way.

Guest
00:25:02
But the thing is that they're not.

Guest
00:25:04
These rules are arbitrary and they're made up.

Guest
00:25:06
And I used to get really activated and get very upset but now I'm just like, it's just somebody that's scared and doesn't really understand.

Elizabeth
00:25:14
Right.

Guest
00:25:15
And it's not for them, and it's fine.

Guest
00:25:17
It doesn't need to be.

Guest
00:25:18
So there's had to be a lot of work for me as well, to not take things personally.

Guest
00:25:23
Right.

Guest
00:25:23
Because I am, I mean, essentially call stereotype my third child, because it is like raising another child, you know, on, like, it's startup and I'm, you know, getting it going and helping it grow.

Guest
00:25:35
And so it's really hard to take that feedback about your child.

Guest
00:25:38
And then I realized, oh, this isn't really about the child.

Guest
00:25:41
This is about the person making the call me.

Guest
00:25:44
So, you know, again, a lot of layers to, like, how to filter it out.

Guest
00:25:49
But I've learned over the past two years how to.

Guest
00:25:52
How to handle that more effectively so that it doesn't change my mission.

Guest
00:25:57
And my goal to get the idea of this is all about individuality.

Guest
00:26:01
The clothing line is all about supporting a child's individuality as well as an adult's.

Guest
00:26:07
And that means making space for growth.

Elizabeth
00:26:10
That is fantastic.

Elizabeth
00:26:11
Oh, my goodness.

Elizabeth
00:26:12
I have.

Elizabeth
00:26:12
I have goosebumps.

Elizabeth
00:26:16
I'm just so thrilled.

Elizabeth
00:26:18
And I'm really impressed because that does.

Heather
00:26:21
That is very difficult.

Elizabeth
00:26:23
And I completely understand that.

Elizabeth
00:26:25
And I almost could, like, feel the feeling when you were saying that, because I know when I get comments, like, at first, like, it, you know, it hits me, like, right in my gut, and I.

Elizabeth
00:26:36
You just feel it everywhere.

Elizabeth
00:26:38
And then you're like, oh, wait a second, like.

Elizabeth
00:26:41
And then I just feel sad or, you know, I feel for the person.

Heather
00:26:46
Because you're exactly right.

Elizabeth
00:26:47
It is fear, and it is.

Elizabeth
00:26:50
We've been so conditioned to want everything to go in a neat box.

Elizabeth
00:26:55
Right.

Elizabeth
00:26:56
Check the box, fit into the box, fit in here.

Elizabeth
00:26:59
Because that just, like, is comfortable, but it's also something that's only been created within the past, you know, 100, 150 years.

Elizabeth
00:27:10
I mean, when you look historically all the way back, it wasn't like this.

Elizabeth
00:27:16
So there's.

Elizabeth
00:27:17
I always find that quite interesting to read about, to look at and to discuss, because what you're doing is bringing back, really bringing back something that existed hundreds of years ago and the way it should be.

Elizabeth
00:27:34
And the discussion of a spectrum, not two boxes, so.

Guest
00:27:40
Right, right.

Guest
00:27:42
And acceptance.

Guest
00:27:43
And, you know, it's funny, I was just thinking, I don't know why I had this, like, vision, but one of the comments that I get or have received was basically a lot of pushback because I created A skirt that is gender free, that has shorts underneath, creates privacy.

Guest
00:27:58
There are athletic shorts and the overlay is a denim kind of kilt skirt.

Guest
00:28:04
And it's.

Guest
00:28:05
It's really great for play and is really well made.

Guest
00:28:07
But one of the comments that was received on it was skirts are only for girls.

Guest
00:28:11
You know, I hear this a lot.

Guest
00:28:13
Skirts are just for girls.

Guest
00:28:14
Just for girls.

Guest
00:28:14
And my pushback is always like, skirts are for all.

Guest
00:28:17
They're for girls.

Guest
00:28:17
Yes, you're right.

Guest
00:28:18
They're also for boys and they're also for anyone who likes to wear them.

Guest
00:28:21
So that's usually my return comment is something along those lines.

Guest
00:28:24
But what I.

Guest
00:28:25
What's been really satisfying for me is other people will defend the brand for me.

Guest
00:28:30
I won't even have to say anything.

Guest
00:28:31
Somebody else will jump in.

Guest
00:28:32
So one of the comments I received as a pushback to a comment somebody made about skirts are just for girls.

Guest
00:28:38
And I don't remember the rest, but it's probably a little more degrading than that.

Guest
00:28:42
But the comment was, well, Jesus wore a dress.

Guest
00:28:46
And so, you know, was such a great comment.

Guest
00:28:49
And no, they didn't reply to that.

Guest
00:28:50
It was.

Guest
00:28:51
It's pretty factual or true.

Guest
00:28:53
Right?

Elizabeth
00:28:54
Shut that down.

Elizabeth
00:28:55
Right?

Elizabeth
00:28:55
Yeah.

Guest
00:28:57
So it's interesting to see that other people will actually step in and defend the brand and the message.

Guest
00:29:04
Really, it's like, skirts are for everyone.

Guest
00:29:06
You don't have to buy my clothing to go buy.

Guest
00:29:08
Wear a skirt.

Guest
00:29:09
If you're a boy.

Guest
00:29:09
Right.

Guest
00:29:09
You can go to Target, go anywhere and get a skirt.

Guest
00:29:12
But it was very specific to the skirt I had designed.

Guest
00:29:16
And I just thought that was really great to see that I can defend it, but I also don't need to.

Guest
00:29:21
I'm very aligned with what I'm doing and my mission and my vision.

Guest
00:29:24
It's a calling.

Guest
00:29:25
It's something I know I have to do.

Guest
00:29:27
And so it doesn't faze me anymore and in fact, gives me fuel to keep going.

Elizabeth
00:29:33
Absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:29:34
Oh, my goodness.

Elizabeth
00:29:34
Well, every single time that happens.

Elizabeth
00:29:36
Right?

Elizabeth
00:29:37
You just think, that's why I'm doing this.

Guest
00:29:39
Yeah, exactly.

Elizabeth
00:29:41
That's why I'm doing this.

Elizabeth
00:29:42
So I'm looking behind your.

Elizabeth
00:29:44
Over your shoulder and I see the T shirt that says me is all I want to be.

Elizabeth
00:29:47
And I love that.

Elizabeth
00:29:48
That's awesome.

Guest
00:29:50
What's the tagline?

Guest
00:29:51
Stereotype?

Elizabeth
00:29:53
Just amazing.

Guest
00:29:56
And it applies to all.

Guest
00:29:57
And I think that's one of the things I'm most proud of about the brand as well is that, yes, this was inspired by my own children and their.

Guest
00:30:06
What they were presenting to me, but actually then it went to all children.

Guest
00:30:10
And I'm like, wait, actually, this is about adults as well, because we are not done growing when we become adults.

Guest
00:30:16
We're not done growing as parents, as you know.

Guest
00:30:18
And our children are our greatest teachers.

Guest
00:30:21
They're the ones.

Guest
00:30:22
My child, my children, they don't have any preconceived notions of what was right or wrong.

Guest
00:30:27
Right.

Guest
00:30:27
When they first started dressing, they were just dressing based off of what they were attracted to.

Heather
00:30:31
Right.

Guest
00:30:32
And that's not right for me to step in and say, oh, no, no, no, you here, Chloe, put this dress on.

Guest
00:30:36
Jacob, you go put this, these camel print pants on or whatever.

Guest
00:30:40
It's.

Guest
00:30:41
It was more about, oh, these are things that they're attracted to because they're kids and they're pure of heart and they know instinctively what they love.

Guest
00:30:48
And it's not for me to go in and try and change that.

Guest
00:30:52
And that's hard for a lot of parents to do because it is a trigger reaction or because we go into.

Guest
00:30:57
Well, I just want to keep them safe and I don't want them to have any adverse reaction in the outside world.

Guest
00:31:03
And what I say to parents that do that, like, well, what do you, what do you do about bullying?

Guest
00:31:07
How do you tell parents to handle that?

Guest
00:31:09
I usually say is to make sure your home is a safe space that they can express themselves no matter what, in front of you and can feel safe in doing so and not feel judged or labeled.

Guest
00:31:20
And it continues to the outside world.

Guest
00:31:23
But it takes more bravery as a parent to.

Guest
00:31:25
To stand with your child.

Guest
00:31:27
I also say, stand with your child.

Guest
00:31:29
If somebody is asking or making a comment, stand with your child.

Guest
00:31:33
Always tell them that they are not wrong.

Elizabeth
00:31:35
Absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:31:37
And let them hear you say that.

Guest
00:31:39
Yes, let them hear you say.

Guest
00:31:42
And I think that's really important as well, because if your child knows that you support them no matter what, that's the safety and the anchor that they need to go out into the world and face any adversity or contrast.

Guest
00:31:52
It doesn't have to be specific to clothing.

Guest
00:31:55
Right.

Guest
00:31:55
It's anything, anything.

Guest
00:31:57
You have their back.

Elizabeth
00:31:59
Yep.

Elizabeth
00:32:00
100%.

Elizabeth
00:32:01
100%.

Elizabeth
00:32:02
And when they know that the home is their safety nest.

Elizabeth
00:32:06
Right.

Elizabeth
00:32:06
Their safety tree, where they can just be, holy cow.

Elizabeth
00:32:11
Like, that is just.

Elizabeth
00:32:12
It makes such a big difference because we can't control what's happening out there.

Elizabeth
00:32:18
Right.

Elizabeth
00:32:18
But we can control to a greater extent what happens in our home and the environment we create and the energy that we allow or create or whatever you want to say in our home.

Elizabeth
00:32:32
So I do appreciate that so much and your ability to see them from such a young age.

Elizabeth
00:32:40
I'm just thinking, you know, about your kids specifically but you know, any child to be seen like that and especially.

Heather
00:32:49
From the get go.

Elizabeth
00:32:51
Right.

Elizabeth
00:32:52
Is just a really cool thing because that's something that they're not going to have to unlearn.

Elizabeth
00:32:58
That's just how they've walked through life.

Elizabeth
00:33:02
Right.

Elizabeth
00:33:02
So you've given them such a gift of being able to be 100% authentic from day one and to go out into the world as this like truly authentic being and that's just who they're going to attract and the energy they're going to put out there.

Elizabeth
00:33:20
And I think that is just extraordinary.

Elizabeth
00:33:22
So bravo.

Guest
00:33:25
Thank you.

Guest
00:33:27
I certainly wasn't intentional in that, in that way of thinking.

Guest
00:33:31
It was again my own self reflection that brought me to that mind space and you know, really truly wanting to, you know, be the best parent I could be.

Guest
00:33:40
Not the perfect parent, but the best parent I can be.

Guest
00:33:43
And you know, for me, I often say that raising my children is re raising myself and looking at the ways I was not supported or seen or valued.

Guest
00:33:53
And you know, that takes time and perspective as well.

Guest
00:33:56
And so for me, it's also kind of on my own healing journey of what are the ways that I wasn't seen and heard and how can I make sure I'm hearing and seeing my children for who they are, who they are showing me the whole child before me, not just parts of it and the things that I'm comfortable with, even the things I'm not comfortable with and how do I get work through that.

Guest
00:34:16
And it's not always easy, it's, it's not linear.

Guest
00:34:19
But it is something I know that I can work on and can face and it's not something I'm afraid of.

Guest
00:34:26
And I think once you can remove that fear, like oh no, this is my child.

Guest
00:34:31
I want to see them holy, full as whoever they need to be in front of me.

Guest
00:34:37
The deeper your connection is to your child and that also I have seen like over time, like they're deeply connected to me and I want that.

Guest
00:34:46
I don't ever want to lose that.

Guest
00:34:47
You know, I want them to feel like that they can come to me if they need to for anything.

Guest
00:34:52
Not.

Guest
00:34:52
I don't want them to be scared or worried I'm going to have a reaction that they don't like or that I don't like.

Guest
00:34:59
And you know, that takes a lot of work because we're not conditioned to do that from a young age.

Guest
00:35:05
We're conditioned to know things have to fall in line in a certain way and that's just not how life is.

Guest
00:35:11
And it shouldn't be that way.

Elizabeth
00:35:12
No, no.

Elizabeth
00:35:14
There's a lot of shoulds that we have to get rid of.

Elizabeth
00:35:18
We have to let go of to be able to be in that place of awareness and really seeing.

Elizabeth
00:35:25
And like you said, seeing them for their, the whole child, not just the easy parts.

Heather
00:35:32
Right.

Elizabeth
00:35:32
Because there are.

Elizabeth
00:35:33
Every child is so unique and so different and I, I think about that all the time with mine.

Elizabeth
00:35:39
And, and now when I see different things about each one, I think, okay, well that's just who they are.

Elizabeth
00:35:46
And that's the, that's the day that we're having today.

Elizabeth
00:35:49
And this is, you know, and it's not, I think there's such this sense that we get of oh, I've got to fix that because it feels uncomfortable.

Elizabeth
00:35:57
Right.

Elizabeth
00:35:58
And we don't.

Elizabeth
00:36:01
Right.

Elizabeth
00:36:02
They just need to know that we're here, we're seeing them and we're hearing them and we're holding space for them and they learn how to figure things out.

Guest
00:36:13
Right.

Guest
00:36:13
And you're the example.

Guest
00:36:14
Right.

Guest
00:36:15
So if you are, and you know, you're not always going to be pleasant for your child.

Guest
00:36:19
Right.

Guest
00:36:19
Obviously they're also going to have to accept you in all of the phases that you go through with, you know, raising a child.

Guest
00:36:27
And that's not linear either.

Guest
00:36:29
Right.

Guest
00:36:30
It's not pretty.

Guest
00:36:31
It's hard.

Guest
00:36:32
There's ebbs and flows in everything.

Guest
00:36:35
And I think that there's a lot of.

Guest
00:36:36
When you can give yourself a lot of grace all the way around with raising, you know, your child, but also having the ability to have some self awareness about how you're doing it, being conscious, being a conscious parent as much as possible.

Guest
00:36:49
Which is difficult, right.

Guest
00:36:50
To do because it means that you have to stop and think about what you're doing while you're doing it.

Guest
00:36:55
And not everybody does that.

Guest
00:36:56
You just go right into mode of like solve the problem or get it done or it has to be this way.

Guest
00:37:01
And that's, that's, that's that it really narrows your experience as a parent if you're not able to expand beyond what you think or how you think something should go based off of a past experience for being raised a certain way.

Guest
00:37:18
And that's a missed opportunity because you do want your child to grow and know who they are as soon as they can.

Guest
00:37:24
I mean, wouldn't it be great if you knew who you were when you were like, you know, 18.

Guest
00:37:29
I mean, I always think about that.

Guest
00:37:30
I'm like, if I knew who I was when I was 18, I could have, like, my 20s would have been so much better.

Guest
00:37:36
You know, I was like trying to figure myself out.

Guest
00:37:38
And I'm hoping my kids won't have to go through that, you know, as much as possible.

Guest
00:37:43
Of course they're always going to have questions.

Guest
00:37:44
They're always going to be curious.

Guest
00:37:45
I want them to be continue to ask, continue to be curious, continue to explore, and always have that sense of adventure.

Guest
00:37:54
But they know who they are today based off of how I am raising them, to believe in what they love and to be an individual and not to not be afraid of showing that.

Elizabeth
00:38:06
And expressing it 100%.

Elizabeth
00:38:09
Oh my goodness, yes.

Elizabeth
00:38:11
And I think kind of circling back a little bit, something that I feel like we're all just kind of wired with maybe, maybe comes with like the I had a child and now I feel like I have to be perfect thing like this desire to do everything perfectly.

Elizabeth
00:38:25
We panic if we don't know the answer to something that's kind of like the initial, like where.

Elizabeth
00:38:30
Where we all start, perhaps.

Elizabeth
00:38:34
But what I have found, and it sounds like you have found this too, is like that value in being able to pause and to be human and to be okay with not having the answer right away and to allow your kids to see you because they do what they see, not what they hear.

Elizabeth
00:38:58
So if they see you giving yourself grace, they see you being messy.

Elizabeth
00:39:03
They see you, you know, apologizing like that was such a huge thing for me to.

Heather
00:39:09
Right.

Elizabeth
00:39:10
When you mess up, you say, I'm sorry.

Elizabeth
00:39:12
Like, that is such an incredible lesson to teach your kids that.

Elizabeth
00:39:16
Yeah, even parents mess up.

Elizabeth
00:39:17
Like, we're totally human and we're just bigger versions of you.

Elizabeth
00:39:22
Right.

Elizabeth
00:39:23
Our brains are fully developed.

Elizabeth
00:39:24
Like, that's about the difference.

Elizabeth
00:39:25
Right.

Guest
00:39:26
You don't have any excuse about that.

Guest
00:39:30
Is that.

Guest
00:39:31
That's also an experience that we had when we were children.

Guest
00:39:33
Right.

Guest
00:39:34
My parents never apologized to me when they did something wrong.

Guest
00:39:36
Right.

Guest
00:39:37
And that's not a judgment on them.

Guest
00:39:38
That's just what they knew at the time.

Elizabeth
00:39:40
Right.

Guest
00:39:41
But I know better now.

Guest
00:39:42
And so if I do make a mistake, I do apologize to my child because I want them to know, yeah, moms make a mess up too.

Guest
00:39:49
Of course.

Guest
00:39:49
Of course we do.

Guest
00:39:51
And that's important for them to know and to understand.

Guest
00:39:54
And also I need to soften to them as much as I can when I know I'M wrong because it won't feel right for me to just be like, well, you know, I'm just right all the time, and moms are just right, and we have all the answers.

Guest
00:40:05
I don't.

Guest
00:40:06
I will often tell them, I don't know, where did that question come from?

Guest
00:40:09
I usually try to figure out, where is the question coming from and can you answer it yourself?

Guest
00:40:14
Usually the answer is yes, and they don't have the answer, and I don't have the answer.

Guest
00:40:19
I tell them, well, let me get back to you.

Guest
00:40:21
Let's talk about this in a way that we can both understand it.

Guest
00:40:25
And I think when you can present something that way as well, it's reframed as a learning opportunity for both.

Guest
00:40:31
It's not just like, oh, Mom's got all the answers, and I can ask any question.

Guest
00:40:36
You can certainly ask.

Guest
00:40:37
I don't always have all the answers.

Guest
00:40:38
And I'm very clear about that, too.

Guest
00:40:39
I don't pretend to know.

Elizabeth
00:40:41
Right.

Guest
00:40:42
And when you don't have to pretend to know, then your child's like, oh, you're just like me.

Guest
00:40:46
I don't know everything.

Guest
00:40:47
I'm still learning.

Guest
00:40:48
I'm still curious.

Guest
00:40:50
And that's really important to model to your child as well.

Guest
00:40:52
At least it is from my point of view.

Elizabeth
00:40:55
Yes.

Elizabeth
00:40:55
Well, I completely agree with you.

Elizabeth
00:40:58
And it helps build trust as well.

Elizabeth
00:41:01
I think when you are able to kind of, those can be very vulnerable moments, right?

Elizabeth
00:41:08
And when your kids see that, they realize, oh, like, I can do this too.

Elizabeth
00:41:13
I can trust this person because they are actually a real person.

Elizabeth
00:41:19
They aren't this.

Elizabeth
00:41:20
I think, you know, and I think I grew up very similarly to where, you know, I.

Elizabeth
00:41:24
My parents, it seemed like they were perfect, right?

Elizabeth
00:41:27
There was no.

Elizabeth
00:41:28
There was like, just this facade of, like, we don't ever make mistakes.

Elizabeth
00:41:31
We are fully in charge and control, you know, that whole thing.

Elizabeth
00:41:36
So kind of.

Elizabeth
00:41:38
And to your point, that's just what they knew, right?

Elizabeth
00:41:41
And but realizing, like, oh, like, I don't have to be like that, because that doesn't feel right to me.

Elizabeth
00:41:48
That's not who I am.

Elizabeth
00:41:50
And it's kind of a cool thing just to watch how your kids then respond to you and are like, oh, yeah, I can say stuff.

Elizabeth
00:42:00
And I will tell you, like, to your point, as.

Elizabeth
00:42:02
As your kids get older.

Elizabeth
00:42:04
I was having a conversation with Connor just the other day, and he's my oldest one who's in.

Elizabeth
00:42:09
Just graduated last week from nyu, and.

Guest
00:42:12
Oh, my gosh, congratulations.

Elizabeth
00:42:15
I mean, I cannot even.

Elizabeth
00:42:17
I'm still like, in that space of, like, try not to burst into tears every time I say it because I miss him so much and I am so proud of him.

Elizabeth
00:42:25
I'm so happy.

Elizabeth
00:42:25
But he called me and he was like, okay, here's some things that are going on.

Elizabeth
00:42:29
And the things that he, like, then went on to tell me were going on, I was, like, giggling inside because I thought, you know, eight years ago, you would never have said any of this to me, like, in a million years.

Elizabeth
00:42:41
And you never would have imagined that you would have called me to say, all right, this is what's going on.

Elizabeth
00:42:47
What do you think?

Elizabeth
00:42:50
So it was just one of those, like, really cool moments where I was like, yeah, this is what.

Guest
00:42:57
Well, you built trust and you created a safe space for him so he could open up.

Guest
00:43:01
And I think that that's really important.

Guest
00:43:02
You know, when you create a safe space, when you are telling your child, yeah, you can.

Guest
00:43:07
You can ask me anything and show me anything and be anyway, and I'll.

Guest
00:43:13
I'm here.

Guest
00:43:14
And that's not necessarily something you have to verbally say, but when it shows up and, you know, you're asked a question that maybe makes you uncomfortable or you're saying something that makes you uncomfortable, I always say, start with where.

Guest
00:43:25
Where does that seed come from?

Guest
00:43:27
Where was it planted?

Guest
00:43:29
Can you move beyond it?

Guest
00:43:30
Because usually the answer is yes, if you're willing to give yourself the space to do it.

Guest
00:43:34
And if you think about your child and how you were parented, there's even more space because you're like, oh, I see.

Guest
00:43:41
This came back from a childhood experience.

Guest
00:43:44
And when you can do that, then your.

Guest
00:43:46
Your child does feel, you know, more safe to open up to you in ways that you probably, like you said and never expected or could have imagined.

Elizabeth
00:43:55
Yes, absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:43:57
It is.

Elizabeth
00:43:58
It's a very, you know, it's.

Elizabeth
00:44:00
It's humbling.

Elizabeth
00:44:02
It's just extraordinary.

Elizabeth
00:44:05
I do just have to giggle all the time because I.

Elizabeth
00:44:09
I think, oh, my goodness.

Elizabeth
00:44:11
The.

Elizabeth
00:44:12
The former version of me would have just died.

Guest
00:44:17
Right.

Elizabeth
00:44:18
I mean, with this information.

Elizabeth
00:44:19
And I just.

Elizabeth
00:44:21
Just, you know, it's.

Elizabeth
00:44:23
It is a lot of fun to be able to kind of let all of those pieces go that just don't serve you anymore and, yeah.

Elizabeth
00:44:31
Aren't who you're meant to be in this world and to just, like, let this stuff come and enjoy it.

Elizabeth
00:44:38
My goodness.

Elizabeth
00:44:39
So.

Elizabeth
00:44:41
And the things we learn, right?

Guest
00:44:45
Things we are forced to learn, for sure.

Elizabeth
00:44:48
Oh, my goodness.

Guest
00:44:49
Okay.

Elizabeth
00:44:50
Well, I would love to let everyone know how they can find you and where they can look at every, you know, the pieces that you've created.

Elizabeth
00:45:02
Can they purchase them now, all of these good bits of information and of course they'll be linked and show notes and social media and everything else as well.

Elizabeth
00:45:12
But just so people can hear.

Guest
00:45:14
Yes.

Guest
00:45:16
So you can find my clothing@stereotypekids.com you can sign up for the newsletter and get information directly to your inbox as well as a discount on your first purchase.

Guest
00:45:27
There's a lot of content there for self reflection.

Guest
00:45:30
I write a lot of blog posts about parenting, so if you have any curiosity there, that's great to go and check out.

Guest
00:45:37
I talk about why I started Stereotype more specifically as well.

Guest
00:45:42
And if you have any questions about your kids, I also take questions from parents and we'll answer those monthly as well in an area called Ask Elizabeth Anything.

Guest
00:45:53
And those questions go beyond like what if my child wants to have long hair and he's a boy to my daughter, you know, wants to wear her brother's clothing.

Guest
00:46:03
So there's a good range of topics there.

Guest
00:46:06
I also answer top about twins if you have twins.

Guest
00:46:09
So you could do that.

Guest
00:46:11
You could also find me on Instagram at Stereotype Kids Official and we also have a TikTok page that is at Club STK.

Guest
00:46:21
So there's a lot of ways to reach out and check us out.

Guest
00:46:25
And yeah, I hope you do.

Heather
00:46:27
Absolutely.

Elizabeth
00:46:28
Oh my goodness, yes.

Elizabeth
00:46:29
Well, I am so grateful that you've been here today.

Elizabeth
00:46:31
I was really, really looking forward to our conversation and it was even more than I had hoped.

Elizabeth
00:46:38
So thank you so much.

Guest
00:46:40
Thank you.

Guest
00:46:41
I really enjoyed our conversation as well and I'm looking forward to learning more about what you're doing and supporting you the same.

Elizabeth
00:46:48
Thank you.

Host
00:46:51
Thanks so much for joining me today.

Host
00:46:54
If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful.

Host
00:46:58
For a rating or a review, click on the link in the show notes or go to my website chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me.

Host
00:47:14
Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone and remember to just breathe.

Host
00:47:23
Until next time.

Guest
00:47:27
Sa.