WEBVTT
1
00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:06.120
Forbes Books presents the Startup Science Podcast with Gregory Shepherd,
2
00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.400
brought to you by Startup Science dot Io. Greg is
3
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:14.599
an entrepreneur who's built and sold twelve businesses, a recipient
4
00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:18.719
of four private equity awards, featured ted X speaker and
5
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:24.160
Ben Bella Publishing and Penguin Random House author. Here's Gregory Sheppard.
6
00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:28.120
I'm back here with Marcia Dahwood, an early stage investor,
7
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.559
author of Do Good While Doing Well, ted X speaker,
8
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:34.679
and host of the Angel Nextdoor podcast. She shared our
9
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.159
journey from attending her first Angel Investor meeting in twenty
10
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.960
twelve to chairing the Angel Capital Association and advocating for
11
00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:47.320
diverse founders. So, Marcia, you've invested in over fifty startups
12
00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:51.600
and funds. That's a lot of investments. Does anything surprise
13
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:52.359
you anymore?
14
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.520
Sometimes? Sometimes? Well, you know, it would be really nice
15
00:00:57.560 --> 00:00:59.439
if we if the m and A market started to
16
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:01.799
come back and we can get a couple more exits.
17
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:05.079
I feel like it's been a while, so you know,
18
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.680
I'm a big fan of funds. I really haven't made
19
00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.920
that written that many checks. That includes exposure that I
20
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.120
have to companies through funds, right, So I'm a big
21
00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.319
fan of that because you can write one check and
22
00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:22.280
you could get exposure to sometimes ten, fifteen, twenty companies.
23
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.879
And I especially like that for new investors because that
24
00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:31.599
de risks their portfolio almost immediately, you know. I tell
25
00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.239
a story in my book about two people who were
26
00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.599
in my angel group and both of them at supper
27
00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:43.159
Times wrote three checks to three companies, but they were
28
00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:48.040
different companies. The one person had a great return, like
29
00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.359
two of the companies exited within like two years. They had,
30
00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.680
you know, made a bunch of money. They thought angel
31
00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.040
investment was the greatest thing. Ever, the other person lost
32
00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.959
all their money, like within a year. I thought Angel
33
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.400
investment was the worst thing that happened to them. And
34
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.400
so here you have two examples that are kind of extreme,
35
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.319
and neither of them are really great examples that you'd
36
00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.520
really want the population as a whole to think is
37
00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.879
angel investing. So to me, when you have that diversified
38
00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.039
portfolio and you invest through funds, that is a way
39
00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:21.479
that you can start to say, Okay, I understand the space.
40
00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.919
I can now be connected to these companies. And maybe
41
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.280
sometimes a lot of people don't have time, you know,
42
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:29.199
so they want to make a more passitive investment, and
43
00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:30.879
they can do that through a fund. And then the
44
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:33.599
fund manager is the one who's kind of organizing everything,
45
00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:36.080
keeping up with all the companies. And then they always
46
00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:39.919
let the investors who are in the fund kind of know, Oh,
47
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.039
this company is looking for this or that or needs
48
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:43.240
this kind of help or that kind of help, and
49
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.159
if you can help, you can help, can't. I just
50
00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:47.800
think the whole fund model is a good one.
51
00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.000
I want to talk about your book. First of all.
52
00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.360
You know, I came from a poor family, right and
53
00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:55.800
I fought my way up, and so I love the
54
00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.240
idea of doing good while doing well, Like this is
55
00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.000
the title of your book is exactly because I felt guilty,
56
00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:06.719
you know, when I had my first exit, I felt guilty,
57
00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:08.879
and I was like, wait a minute, why am I
58
00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.159
feeling so bad? You know, And so the concept of
59
00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:16.199
doing good while doing well is just beautiful. What inspired
60
00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.080
you to write the book and who did you write
61
00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:20.240
it for specifically?
62
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:25.319
So I wrote it because I personally, I was getting frustrated.
63
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.680
I was seeing how hard it was for entrepreneurs to fundraise,
64
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.639
especially women and people of color, and I thought, wait
65
00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.439
a minute. I meet people and I would say to them, well,
66
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.919
you could be an investor too, and they would say me, no,
67
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.039
I can't be. I can't be an investor because that's
68
00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:42.159
just for rich people. I have to have a finance degree,
69
00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:43.800
it have to be invited. Da da dah. They have
70
00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.560
all these myths, and I thought, no, no, no, that's not true.
71
00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.319
But it's so hard to just kind of explain, and
72
00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:53.439
there's so many things, and that, oh, you could start
73
00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.439
with equity crowdfunding even because that you can invest for
74
00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.719
like one hundred dollars or two hundred dollars. You didn't
75
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:01.000
even have to put up you know, thousands of dollars
76
00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.960
or millions of dollars. Like there's this perception that an
77
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.719
angel investor is like this person who kind of sneaks
78
00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:10.439
into the room and then quietly drops millions of dollars
79
00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.520
onto a company and then quietly leaves, and then all
80
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.160
of a sudden, the company does super great and then
81
00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.560
they end up with all this money. Well, that's not reality, right,
82
00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.079
So I was trying to write a book that would
83
00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.920
be how do we demystify this whole thing? How do
84
00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:26.959
we get it to a point where people could actually
85
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.879
say to themselves, you know, I would like to help
86
00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:32.600
with XYZ change that I want to see in the world,
87
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.000
and how do I do that? Well, here are the ways,
88
00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.480
because Marshall told me so.
89
00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:39.600
I've read your book from the first time we met,
90
00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.920
and I think it's amazing, and especially in contrast to
91
00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.160
some of the other books like Venture Deals, right where
92
00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:47.680
you know when.
93
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.639
You write a different books the Venture Deals, Yeah.
94
00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.399
Yeah, right, if you're a founder and you try to
95
00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.480
read this, you're like, what is going on? And it's
96
00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:59.079
written specifically for those type VC type investors. But your
97
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.079
book is way way different. First of all, it's way
98
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:05.600
easier to read. It explains things in a very you know,
99
00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.120
it's accessible, right, So I'd like you to talk a
100
00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.360
little bit about sort of how what's in the book
101
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.480
and how the book relays this information to the reader,
102
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.920
because I found it to be I was like, oh,
103
00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:20.959
finally somebody wrote a book about this that you know
104
00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:22.399
isn't like a math problem.
105
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.839
Well, okay. First of all, Venture Deals is one of
106
00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:28.040
my favorite angel investing books, and I have copies of
107
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:29.680
I think I have three copies of my house because
108
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.560
I have to keep one in every room because it's
109
00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:33.600
such a great reference guide. But to your point like
110
00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.959
it also, I think if you have insomnia, sorry Brad,
111
00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.920
but if you have like you could probably read parts
112
00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:40.720
of it. I think he even says that in his
113
00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.720
course because it is very dense, it's very a little
114
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.319
heavy and all that kind of stuff. But I do
115
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.600
love it. It's a fabulous, fabulous, fabulous book. But I
116
00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:52.199
also found that there's there were books out there are
117
00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:55.600
books out there on angel investing, and but why would
118
00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:57.319
somebody pick up a book like that if they don't
119
00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.199
even think angel investing is for them? And then as
120
00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.000
I talk to other people and I would say, hey,
121
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.920
you know, you could try this, and they'd be like, ah,
122
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.920
like it just seems scary, like it's overwhelming. Oh the
123
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.959
things that you do are so different. I don't think
124
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.480
I even know where to start. And so that I
125
00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:16.680
don't know where to start thing is where I got
126
00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:18.839
the idea that hey, wait a minute, we have to
127
00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:23.000
make this like much much simpler and make it approachable
128
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.920
so that people aren't so scared by it and that
129
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.920
they do feel like, hey, this could be for me too.
130
00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.639
And I just I literally just had a conversation recently
131
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:36.519
with Witty Nice. He runs the crowdfunding associate group, and
132
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.480
he has just a wealth of knowledge. He's basically like
133
00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.560
the godfather of crowdfunding. And we were talking about how
134
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.639
I just really believe that crowdfunding is so great for
135
00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.319
new investors, and it's also so great for entrepreneurs and
136
00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:53.000
being able to get that kind of gap funding that
137
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.279
they need from their idea to actually getting some more
138
00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:02.000
sophisticated investors into their company. And so all of these
139
00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.839
things are the biggest reasons why I thought, Okay, if
140
00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:07.519
we can just kind of get people past that initial
141
00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.759
fear of like, Okay, this isn't really so hard, it's
142
00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.879
not so scary, maybe we will get more people who
143
00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.439
will want to do it. And the more and more
144
00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:18.720
people that we get to do it, the easier it's
145
00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.240
going to be for entrepreneurs.
146
00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.279
So you're doing good by doing well or doing well
147
00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:29.399
by doing good yourself. Yeah, that's that's really beautiful. I mean,
148
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:31.959
I just loved it. I mean I just I was
149
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.800
reading and I was like, Okay, this is accessible. You know.
150
00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:38.319
I know I've referred venture deals to so many founders
151
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:40.920
and they come away and they go well. Once I
152
00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.120
woke up, I was able to sit down with a
153
00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.399
spreadsheet and start trying to figure out what this guy
154
00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:51.439
is saying. You know, that's from a new founder's perspective, right,
155
00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.240
So yeah, I mean for somebody that's got a little
156
00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:58.399
more experienced the book is a bible, right, But I
157
00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.839
found your book to be way more accessible, and it's
158
00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.639
something that now I'm referring instead of venture deals to
159
00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.879
early stage you know, angels, you know where like, how
160
00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:10.360
does this work? What do I do? And You're right,
161
00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:12.879
a lot of them say, I don't know about it?
162
00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:15.399
What do you do? Well, I invest into my four
163
00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.120
to one k et cetera, et cetera. Right, Well, maybe
164
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.240
you should look at this as a different asset class.
165
00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.839
It's got high returns, high risk to traditional algorithm. But
166
00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.040
I I'm just a huge fan. So I wanted to
167
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:28.040
spend a little time on it because I think that
168
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.319
if you're listening and you're an early stage investor or
169
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.600
a founder, this is a book you should absolutely buy
170
00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:40.240
and read. It's fantastic. So let's move on to the
171
00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:44.360
next question. So I wanted to ask you, so, going
172
00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.559
back to these investors, and you look at these early
173
00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.279
stage investors, how do they align their portfolio to their
174
00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:54.799
values without sacrificing the returns.
175
00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.120
Oh, such a good question. So I have this kind
176
00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.759
of love hate reli relationship with the word impact because
177
00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.600
I really believe that you can invest where you want
178
00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:11.080
to see change and get financial returns. But there's this
179
00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:16.720
connotation around the world impact and they and that people think, oh, well,
180
00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.600
if I invest for impact, that means of basically making
181
00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:23.159
a donation. I shouldn't expect any financial returns. It's just
182
00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.360
you know, we don't. We don't really do that. That's
183
00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:30.120
that's for other people. But I do believe that you
184
00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.360
can do both. But I think you have to be
185
00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.000
looking in the right place. You have to do your diligence,
186
00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.159
and you have to think about what are the things
187
00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.360
that truly are my values? What is it that I
188
00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.240
care about? So in the book, I have a worksheet
189
00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:47.720
that people can fill out. It's one page. It's super easy,
190
00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:51.080
But the questions they might not be super easy to
191
00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.840
like think about, because it's asking you, like, what are
192
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:55.919
the things that I care about? Where do I want
193
00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.960
to put my money? Do I where do I even
194
00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.240
want to start? You know, in a lot of cases,
195
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.440
what about the stock market and the people that we're
196
00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:06.799
investing in? Through the stock market. Do we know all
197
00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.240
of their values? Do we know the company's values, do
198
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.600
we know what they're you know, looking at or what
199
00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:16.279
they have been thinking about? So I think, well, okay,
200
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.279
if there are startups out there that we can be
201
00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:23.200
investing in, then we could actually be doing good by
202
00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:26.480
investing in these companies. And if we're really thoughtful about
203
00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.559
how we're going to help them to grow and scale,
204
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:30.879
well that way we can do well too.
205
00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.679
So on that note, how can founders better position themselves
206
00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.399
to attract mission driven investors?
207
00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:44.360
So that's a very good question too. So when it
208
00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:52.039
comes to mission driven, like, I don't necessarily identify myself
209
00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.519
as an impact investor again because I was just like
210
00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.279
I just explained of this little bit of a love
211
00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:01.159
hate relationship with that word. I do like to invest
212
00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:04.679
for impact, But I think what companies need to do
213
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:08.519
is they need to be very very clear, again back
214
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:11.039
to the problem that they're solving. If they can be
215
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.320
super clear about the problem that they're solving, and that
216
00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.679
problem does involve some type of good for the world,
217
00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:20.440
which you know in a lot of cases, there's a
218
00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.679
lot of companies out there doing that, especially to pick
219
00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.320
any company in healthcare. Of course, they're working on something
220
00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:27.759
that's better for the world, you hope, or for people
221
00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:32.639
the planet, And so how they position that versus how
222
00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.200
they're talking about the company they have to go hand
223
00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.600
in hand. But at the same time they have to
224
00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.720
really show that this is a company that is going
225
00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.919
to be built to grow and scale. And that's the
226
00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.919
one thing that I think is the biggest differentiator between
227
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:51.840
an investor who is just maybe looking at, you know,
228
00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.840
some kind of small business and a startup. So when
229
00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.519
people ask me what does it mean that you're investing
230
00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:01.919
in a startup, we're talking about scalability and that word
231
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:06.080
alone is what differentiates a small company or a small
232
00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:09.519
business to a startup or scalable business, because you want
233
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.399
to be able to see that they can grow at
234
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.039
a rapid rate and actually get enough of the market
235
00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:16.679
share who will want to be customers, who will want
236
00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.399
to buy the product or service, and then you're going
237
00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:21.039
to see the returns back to the investors.
238
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:26.000
So on this impact word investing, what do you see
239
00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.159
in the future of impact investing? I mean, considering there's
240
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.320
a lot of political turbulence, things have been stripped away.
241
00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:36.200
I mean, you know, so people are like pulling back
242
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.440
on this. You know, so, what do you think the
243
00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.799
future of impact investing is and is there one right
244
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:43.480
now anyway?
245
00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:46.480
Well, I think it all again goes back to the
246
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.279
problem that we're solving. If it's a problem that's big enough,
247
00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:52.679
take all of the words out of it, the diversity
248
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.759
or whatever it is. If it is a problem that's
249
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.000
being solved for community or group of people, you know,
250
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:02.200
that's going to be needed regardless and no matter what
251
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:04.720
kind of labels we put on it or anything like that.
252
00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.919
So I think that it's really important that we think
253
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.200
about again, what are the problems we're solving, but what
254
00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.879
is the solution that people are going to actually pay for?
255
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.600
That is probably the number one question when I talk
256
00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.159
to entrepreneurs and they're like, oh, I have this great idea,
257
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.360
and they go on and on and on, and then
258
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.320
I'll ask them, well, how are you going to make money?
259
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.600
And they're like, oh, yeah, that yeah, that little thing,
260
00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.240
that little thing. Yeah, Well let me let me think
261
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.960
about that. You know. So there's a lot of companies
262
00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.519
out there that have nothing to do with impact that
263
00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.519
can't make any money. So you got that too. You know,
264
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.240
there's every extreme I think.
265
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.679
So let's hop back to the founder's side a little bit.
266
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.279
So what qualities do you look for in we were
267
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.200
talking about the horse and the jockey. What qualities do
268
00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.360
you look for in founders when you're deciding to invest,
269
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.120
when you're looking at that jockey.
270
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.120
Yeah, again, I don't know that it's necessarily that single founder.
271
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.559
It really does have to be the team. And if
272
00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.480
it's so early that you're just talking to the founders
273
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.879
or founder, then I think it's what's the plan and
274
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:17.799
do they have the you know, emotional IQ and the
275
00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.080
intellectual IQ to know who it is that they need
276
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.480
on the team in order to balance out what they
277
00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:29.480
don't have. So I think one of the biggest things
278
00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:34.320
that I've seen has really made an entrepreneur successful is humility.
279
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:36.759
And you don't see it very often. And it's a
280
00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:39.879
little bit of a balancing act because remember, entrepreneurs, they
281
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:42.320
have to be visionaries. They have to be ready to
282
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.200
go and just take it all the way to the
283
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:48.039
end and they've got it right. But at the same time,
284
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.600
if they're a little too overzealous, if they're a little
285
00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.480
bit too big for their breches, then you know, in
286
00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.960
a lot of cases, I don't see them succeed. So
287
00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.639
that level of like, hey, I only know what I know,
288
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.759
and I know that I have to surround myself with
289
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.559
smarter people who also can get done what I want
290
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.759
to get done. That is where I start to see success.
291
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.679
I can't agree more. I was to help you. There's
292
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.840
no room for arrogance and entrepreneurship.
293
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:13.480
That's right.
294
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.799
My mom used to tell me. She used to say,
295
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.039
my mom was amazing. She was my mentor, and she
296
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.879
said to me, if you are the smartest person in
297
00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:23.559
the room, you're in the wrong room.
298
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.360
That's exactly right.
299
00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.440
I find I love what you're what you're relaying. Let
300
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.399
me move on to you know. So we talked a
301
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.720
little bit about founders and how they communicate to you
302
00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.600
and how you can perceive that communication to make a decision.
303
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:43.320
How can founders effectively effectively communicate their vision and mission
304
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.919
to investors? Like, how are there any tools or any
305
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:50.639
advice you could give to the founders when they're talking
306
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.279
to investors on how to do that.
307
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:57.039
So one of the things that I've seen entrepreneurs try
308
00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.519
to do is they try to just get as much
309
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.600
information out of their mouth as fast as they can
310
00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.480
to just try to make sure that they're hitting all
311
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.960
the points because all of it to them is so important.
312
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.720
It's almost like they don't have a filter. They just well,
313
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.440
then they're just trying to get all that information out.
314
00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.360
So think about every time that you're talking to somebody
315
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.440
as being the opportunity to get the next time that
316
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.840
you're going to talk to that person. It's not about
317
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.840
them making a decision to invest in that minute or
318
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.279
three or five that you have with them or whatever
319
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.440
it is. You're just trying to get to the next step.
320
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.639
So think about the things that are the most important.
321
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.879
For example, So I remember one time I was in
322
00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.840
a pitch listening to a company and the entrepreneur was
323
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:46.080
talking about whatever the company did. Okay, now this is
324
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.639
very typical, So entrepreneurs out there you should know this.
325
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.600
Like you're pitching, there's a room full of investors. You're
326
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.039
going to have an investor if you're not hooking them
327
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:58.879
at the beginning with you know, something juicy, We're thinking
328
00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:01.960
about what's for dinner tonight, and like I really have
329
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.799
to go do my laundry later, you know, like all
330
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.279
the things right, and so all of a sudden, about
331
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.960
three to five minutes into the pitch, the person says, yeah,
332
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.599
we just signed this contract with Walmart or whatever it was.
333
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.839
And I'm thinking to myself, why can you lead with that?
334
00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:17.519
Like maybe I would have paid a little bit more.
335
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.440
So the first like the beginning of it was just
336
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.000
like want, want here we are you know, so, like
337
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:27.400
I think you really do need to get out what
338
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.799
it is you're doing, what's so important, what's the big
339
00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.799
problem you're solving, and what milestones have you already hit.
340
00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:35.559
If you can just start with a couple of those things,
341
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.680
you will get an investor's attention that could then possibly
342
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.279
lead to other meetings. But you know, just trying to
343
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.160
be like we're doing and too fast, too much.
344
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:50.680
So we talked about diversity, and I'm wondering for those
345
00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:54.680
that are listening right, how how do you get the attention?
346
00:17:54.920 --> 00:18:00.240
How would you go about going to funds, angels, what
347
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.440
have you that are open to diversity? Like what is
348
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:06.920
is there a screening? Is there a way you can
349
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.039
find them? What is the what are the keywords?
350
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:10.440
You know?
351
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.039
Impact? Like, how do if you're a female founder or
352
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.920
a black founder or Hispanic founder, how do you find
353
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.319
the money from people that are open to investing into diversity.
354
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.519
Yeah, there's no easy answer to that. On the Angel
355
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:31.720
Capital Association's website, we do have a listing of all
356
00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:36.200
the angel groups in the country in the US, and
357
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.039
and we talk a little bit about, you know, what
358
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.119
their thesis is, what they invest in. So there are
359
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.640
places that you can kind of look around and search
360
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.680
for that. But I always encourage entrepreneurs to be having
361
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.200
conversations with potential investors and people that could potentially help
362
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.680
you with your business way way earlier than you think.
363
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.039
So don't wait until whatever you're building is like so
364
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.359
shiny and new and wonderful, then show it to people.
365
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.960
You want to be building these relationships and starting to
366
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.200
have these conversations early on, because then as people get
367
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.079
to know you, and they get to know what you're building,
368
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.240
and they get to know your company, then they will
369
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.200
start to open the doors to the other networks that
370
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:15.759
are out there.
371
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.599
That's fair. One last question for you, and I don't
372
00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.559
usually plug books this much, but I'm just a big
373
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:27.440
fan of yours in particular, what is one key takeaway
374
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.599
you hope readers get from your book?
375
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.119
So, I, like I said, I wrote the book hoping
376
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.960
that I would encourage more people to be investors. But
377
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.759
I'm finding that to your point, there are a lot
378
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:45.119
of founders out there who have read it and they've said, hey, there,
379
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.519
you've kind of opened my eyes to the ways that
380
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.000
you can invest. And one of the things I'm particularly
381
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.920
hot on right now is using philanthropic capital to invest
382
00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.319
in a for profit company. So, as we talked about before,
383
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.160
there there are ways that you can actually build your
384
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.599
philanthropic checkbooks. So in a lot of cases it's through
385
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.720
a donor advice fund, which I talk about in the
386
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.920
book exactly how it all works. It's not very complicated,
387
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:14.680
but what it can do is it can help for
388
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.319
profit companies in the meantime, and then as those companies
389
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.119
do well, which you hope that they will, that money
390
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:26.359
can go back into your charitable fund and then potentially
391
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.200
help even more five oh one c three charities in
392
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.400
the future. So to me, this is like such a
393
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.480
win win where remember I talked earlier about like how
394
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:36.799
can we get the nonprofits and the for profit companies
395
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:38.759
to kind of work together to solve these problems. This
396
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.640
is one of those ways. So I'm hoping that people
397
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.680
will look at this and say, hey, Okay, I don't
398
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.440
know about investing. I've talked to a lot of people,
399
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.359
especially women, who will say, you know, investing is kind
400
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.759
of scary. My husband really does that that kind of thing.
401
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:57.519
But you know, philanthropy is something that a lot of
402
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.720
people they do all the time. How can we make
403
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.640
it so that it's easier for somebody to actually use
404
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.240
their philanthropic capital to help a startup company, and then
405
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.000
potentially that could even mean there's more dollars for the
406
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:11.960
charities down the road.
407
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.920
It's beautiful. I really appreciate your time and your energy
408
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.000
and your knowledge. Thank you so much for joining the podcast.
409
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.839
Thanks for having me, Greg You're welcome.
410
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.119
And that's it for another episode of the startup science
411
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.359
podcast Founders. As a thank you for leading the change
412
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.279
in our world, I'm offering free access to the startup
413
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.559
science platform Visionaries by Gregory Shepherd. It's a one stop
414
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:40.400
shop with everything you need, an Academy, investors, grants, and
415
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.440
a pitchfinder. Go to Gregoryshepherd dot com and use the
416
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:48.000
code Founders All Capital for free access. Check it out
417
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.279
for yourself. Until next time, I'm mistay my friends.
418
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.440
This startup science podcast with Gregory Shepherd is brought to
419
00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:02.000
you by Startupscience dot Io. Can log on to startupscience
420
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:06.079
dot io and use code Forbes to get free access.
421
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:09.519
To connect and find out more about Greg go to
422
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:14.359
Gregory shephard dot com. The startup Science Podcast is a
423
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.279
production of Forbes books.
1
00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:06.120
Forbes Books presents the Startup Science Podcast with Gregory Shepherd,
2
00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.400
brought to you by Startup Science dot Io. Greg is
3
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:14.599
an entrepreneur who's built and sold twelve businesses, a recipient
4
00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:18.719
of four private equity awards, featured ted X speaker and
5
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:24.160
Ben Bella Publishing and Penguin Random House author. Here's Gregory Sheppard.
6
00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:28.120
I'm back here with Marcia Dahwood, an early stage investor,
7
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.559
author of Do Good While Doing Well, ted X speaker,
8
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:34.679
and host of the Angel Nextdoor podcast. She shared our
9
00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.159
journey from attending her first Angel Investor meeting in twenty
10
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.960
twelve to chairing the Angel Capital Association and advocating for
11
00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:47.320
diverse founders. So, Marcia, you've invested in over fifty startups
12
00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:51.600
and funds. That's a lot of investments. Does anything surprise
13
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:52.359
you anymore?
14
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:57.520
Sometimes? Sometimes? Well, you know, it would be really nice
15
00:00:57.560 --> 00:00:59.439
if we if the m and A market started to
16
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:01.799
come back and we can get a couple more exits.
17
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:05.079
I feel like it's been a while, so you know,
18
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.680
I'm a big fan of funds. I really haven't made
19
00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.920
that written that many checks. That includes exposure that I
20
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.120
have to companies through funds, right, So I'm a big
21
00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.319
fan of that because you can write one check and
22
00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:22.280
you could get exposure to sometimes ten, fifteen, twenty companies.
23
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:26.879
And I especially like that for new investors because that
24
00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:31.599
de risks their portfolio almost immediately, you know. I tell
25
00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.239
a story in my book about two people who were
26
00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.599
in my angel group and both of them at supper
27
00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:43.159
Times wrote three checks to three companies, but they were
28
00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:48.040
different companies. The one person had a great return, like
29
00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.359
two of the companies exited within like two years. They had,
30
00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.680
you know, made a bunch of money. They thought angel
31
00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.040
investment was the greatest thing. Ever, the other person lost
32
00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.959
all their money, like within a year. I thought Angel
33
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.400
investment was the worst thing that happened to them. And
34
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:04.400
so here you have two examples that are kind of extreme,
35
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.319
and neither of them are really great examples that you'd
36
00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.520
really want the population as a whole to think is
37
00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.879
angel investing. So to me, when you have that diversified
38
00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.039
portfolio and you invest through funds, that is a way
39
00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:21.479
that you can start to say, Okay, I understand the space.
40
00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.919
I can now be connected to these companies. And maybe
41
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.280
sometimes a lot of people don't have time, you know,
42
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:29.199
so they want to make a more passitive investment, and
43
00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:30.879
they can do that through a fund. And then the
44
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:33.599
fund manager is the one who's kind of organizing everything,
45
00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:36.080
keeping up with all the companies. And then they always
46
00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:39.919
let the investors who are in the fund kind of know, Oh,
47
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.039
this company is looking for this or that or needs
48
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:43.240
this kind of help or that kind of help, and
49
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.159
if you can help, you can help, can't. I just
50
00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:47.800
think the whole fund model is a good one.
51
00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.000
I want to talk about your book. First of all.
52
00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.360
You know, I came from a poor family, right and
53
00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:55.800
I fought my way up, and so I love the
54
00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.240
idea of doing good while doing well, Like this is
55
00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.000
the title of your book is exactly because I felt guilty,
56
00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:06.719
you know, when I had my first exit, I felt guilty,
57
00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:08.879
and I was like, wait a minute, why am I
58
00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.159
feeling so bad? You know, And so the concept of
59
00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:16.199
doing good while doing well is just beautiful. What inspired
60
00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.080
you to write the book and who did you write
61
00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:20.240
it for specifically?
62
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:25.319
So I wrote it because I personally, I was getting frustrated.
63
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.680
I was seeing how hard it was for entrepreneurs to fundraise,
64
00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.639
especially women and people of color, and I thought, wait
65
00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.439
a minute. I meet people and I would say to them, well,
66
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.919
you could be an investor too, and they would say me, no,
67
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.039
I can't be. I can't be an investor because that's
68
00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:42.159
just for rich people. I have to have a finance degree,
69
00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:43.800
it have to be invited. Da da dah. They have
70
00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.560
all these myths, and I thought, no, no, no, that's not true.
71
00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.319
But it's so hard to just kind of explain, and
72
00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:53.439
there's so many things, and that, oh, you could start
73
00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.439
with equity crowdfunding even because that you can invest for
74
00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.719
like one hundred dollars or two hundred dollars. You didn't
75
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:01.000
even have to put up you know, thousands of dollars
76
00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.960
or millions of dollars. Like there's this perception that an
77
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.719
angel investor is like this person who kind of sneaks
78
00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:10.439
into the room and then quietly drops millions of dollars
79
00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.520
onto a company and then quietly leaves, and then all
80
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.160
of a sudden, the company does super great and then
81
00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.560
they end up with all this money. Well, that's not reality, right,
82
00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.079
So I was trying to write a book that would
83
00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.920
be how do we demystify this whole thing? How do
84
00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:26.959
we get it to a point where people could actually
85
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.879
say to themselves, you know, I would like to help
86
00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:32.600
with XYZ change that I want to see in the world,
87
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.000
and how do I do that? Well, here are the ways,
88
00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.480
because Marshall told me so.
89
00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:39.600
I've read your book from the first time we met,
90
00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.920
and I think it's amazing, and especially in contrast to
91
00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.160
some of the other books like Venture Deals, right where
92
00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:47.680
you know when.
93
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.639
You write a different books the Venture Deals, Yeah.
94
00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.399
Yeah, right, if you're a founder and you try to
95
00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:54.480
read this, you're like, what is going on? And it's
96
00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:59.079
written specifically for those type VC type investors. But your
97
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.079
book is way way different. First of all, it's way
98
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:05.600
easier to read. It explains things in a very you know,
99
00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.120
it's accessible, right, So I'd like you to talk a
100
00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.360
little bit about sort of how what's in the book
101
00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.480
and how the book relays this information to the reader,
102
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.920
because I found it to be I was like, oh,
103
00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:20.959
finally somebody wrote a book about this that you know
104
00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:22.399
isn't like a math problem.
105
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.839
Well, okay. First of all, Venture Deals is one of
106
00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:28.040
my favorite angel investing books, and I have copies of
107
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:29.680
I think I have three copies of my house because
108
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.560
I have to keep one in every room because it's
109
00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:33.600
such a great reference guide. But to your point like
110
00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.959
it also, I think if you have insomnia, sorry Brad,
111
00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.920
but if you have like you could probably read parts
112
00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:40.720
of it. I think he even says that in his
113
00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.720
course because it is very dense, it's very a little
114
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.319
heavy and all that kind of stuff. But I do
115
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:49.600
love it. It's a fabulous, fabulous, fabulous book. But I
116
00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:52.199
also found that there's there were books out there are
117
00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:55.600
books out there on angel investing, and but why would
118
00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:57.319
somebody pick up a book like that if they don't
119
00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.199
even think angel investing is for them? And then as
120
00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.000
I talk to other people and I would say, hey,
121
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.920
you know, you could try this, and they'd be like, ah,
122
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.920
like it just seems scary, like it's overwhelming. Oh the
123
00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.959
things that you do are so different. I don't think
124
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.480
I even know where to start. And so that I
125
00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:16.680
don't know where to start thing is where I got
126
00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:18.839
the idea that hey, wait a minute, we have to
127
00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:23.000
make this like much much simpler and make it approachable
128
00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.920
so that people aren't so scared by it and that
129
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.920
they do feel like, hey, this could be for me too.
130
00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.639
And I just I literally just had a conversation recently
131
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:36.519
with Witty Nice. He runs the crowdfunding associate group, and
132
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:39.480
he has just a wealth of knowledge. He's basically like
133
00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.560
the godfather of crowdfunding. And we were talking about how
134
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.639
I just really believe that crowdfunding is so great for
135
00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.319
new investors, and it's also so great for entrepreneurs and
136
00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:53.000
being able to get that kind of gap funding that
137
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.279
they need from their idea to actually getting some more
138
00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:02.000
sophisticated investors into their company. And so all of these
139
00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.839
things are the biggest reasons why I thought, Okay, if
140
00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:07.519
we can just kind of get people past that initial
141
00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.759
fear of like, Okay, this isn't really so hard, it's
142
00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.879
not so scary, maybe we will get more people who
143
00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.439
will want to do it. And the more and more
144
00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:18.720
people that we get to do it, the easier it's
145
00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.240
going to be for entrepreneurs.
146
00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.279
So you're doing good by doing well or doing well
147
00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:29.399
by doing good yourself. Yeah, that's that's really beautiful. I mean,
148
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:31.959
I just loved it. I mean I just I was
149
00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.800
reading and I was like, Okay, this is accessible. You know.
150
00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:38.319
I know I've referred venture deals to so many founders
151
00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:40.920
and they come away and they go well. Once I
152
00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.120
woke up, I was able to sit down with a
153
00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.399
spreadsheet and start trying to figure out what this guy
154
00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:51.439
is saying. You know, that's from a new founder's perspective, right,
155
00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.240
So yeah, I mean for somebody that's got a little
156
00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:58.399
more experienced the book is a bible, right, But I
157
00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:01.839
found your book to be way more accessible, and it's
158
00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.639
something that now I'm referring instead of venture deals to
159
00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.879
early stage you know, angels, you know where like, how
160
00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:10.360
does this work? What do I do? And You're right,
161
00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:12.879
a lot of them say, I don't know about it?
162
00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:15.399
What do you do? Well, I invest into my four
163
00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.120
to one k et cetera, et cetera. Right, Well, maybe
164
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.240
you should look at this as a different asset class.
165
00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.839
It's got high returns, high risk to traditional algorithm. But
166
00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.040
I I'm just a huge fan. So I wanted to
167
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:28.040
spend a little time on it because I think that
168
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.319
if you're listening and you're an early stage investor or
169
00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:34.600
a founder, this is a book you should absolutely buy
170
00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:40.240
and read. It's fantastic. So let's move on to the
171
00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:44.360
next question. So I wanted to ask you, so, going
172
00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.559
back to these investors, and you look at these early
173
00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.279
stage investors, how do they align their portfolio to their
174
00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:54.799
values without sacrificing the returns.
175
00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.120
Oh, such a good question. So I have this kind
176
00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.759
of love hate reli relationship with the word impact because
177
00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.600
I really believe that you can invest where you want
178
00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:11.080
to see change and get financial returns. But there's this
179
00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:16.720
connotation around the world impact and they and that people think, oh, well,
180
00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.600
if I invest for impact, that means of basically making
181
00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:23.159
a donation. I shouldn't expect any financial returns. It's just
182
00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.360
you know, we don't. We don't really do that. That's
183
00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:30.120
that's for other people. But I do believe that you
184
00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.360
can do both. But I think you have to be
185
00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.000
looking in the right place. You have to do your diligence,
186
00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.159
and you have to think about what are the things
187
00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.360
that truly are my values? What is it that I
188
00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.240
care about? So in the book, I have a worksheet
189
00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:47.720
that people can fill out. It's one page. It's super easy,
190
00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:51.080
But the questions they might not be super easy to
191
00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:53.840
like think about, because it's asking you, like, what are
192
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:55.919
the things that I care about? Where do I want
193
00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.960
to put my money? Do I where do I even
194
00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.240
want to start? You know, in a lot of cases,
195
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.440
what about the stock market and the people that we're
196
00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:06.799
investing in? Through the stock market. Do we know all
197
00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.240
of their values? Do we know the company's values, do
198
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:12.600
we know what they're you know, looking at or what
199
00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:16.279
they have been thinking about? So I think, well, okay,
200
00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:18.279
if there are startups out there that we can be
201
00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:23.200
investing in, then we could actually be doing good by
202
00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:26.480
investing in these companies. And if we're really thoughtful about
203
00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.559
how we're going to help them to grow and scale,
204
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:30.879
well that way we can do well too.
205
00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.679
So on that note, how can founders better position themselves
206
00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.399
to attract mission driven investors?
207
00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:44.360
So that's a very good question too. So when it
208
00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:52.039
comes to mission driven, like, I don't necessarily identify myself
209
00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.519
as an impact investor again because I was just like
210
00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.279
I just explained of this little bit of a love
211
00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:01.159
hate relationship with that word. I do like to invest
212
00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:04.679
for impact, But I think what companies need to do
213
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:08.519
is they need to be very very clear, again back
214
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:11.039
to the problem that they're solving. If they can be
215
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.320
super clear about the problem that they're solving, and that
216
00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.679
problem does involve some type of good for the world,
217
00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:20.440
which you know in a lot of cases, there's a
218
00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.679
lot of companies out there doing that, especially to pick
219
00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.320
any company in healthcare. Of course, they're working on something
220
00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:27.759
that's better for the world, you hope, or for people
221
00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:32.639
the planet, And so how they position that versus how
222
00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.200
they're talking about the company they have to go hand
223
00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.600
in hand. But at the same time they have to
224
00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.720
really show that this is a company that is going
225
00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:43.919
to be built to grow and scale. And that's the
226
00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.919
one thing that I think is the biggest differentiator between
227
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:51.840
an investor who is just maybe looking at, you know,
228
00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.840
some kind of small business and a startup. So when
229
00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.519
people ask me what does it mean that you're investing
230
00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:01.919
in a startup, we're talking about scalability and that word
231
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:06.080
alone is what differentiates a small company or a small
232
00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:09.519
business to a startup or scalable business, because you want
233
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:11.399
to be able to see that they can grow at
234
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.039
a rapid rate and actually get enough of the market
235
00:12:14.080 --> 00:12:16.679
share who will want to be customers, who will want
236
00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.399
to buy the product or service, and then you're going
237
00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:21.039
to see the returns back to the investors.
238
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:26.000
So on this impact word investing, what do you see
239
00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:30.159
in the future of impact investing? I mean, considering there's
240
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.320
a lot of political turbulence, things have been stripped away.
241
00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:36.200
I mean, you know, so people are like pulling back
242
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.440
on this. You know, so, what do you think the
243
00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.799
future of impact investing is and is there one right
244
00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:43.480
now anyway?
245
00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:46.480
Well, I think it all again goes back to the
246
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.279
problem that we're solving. If it's a problem that's big enough,
247
00:12:49.720 --> 00:12:52.679
take all of the words out of it, the diversity
248
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.759
or whatever it is. If it is a problem that's
249
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.000
being solved for community or group of people, you know,
250
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:02.200
that's going to be needed regardless and no matter what
251
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:04.720
kind of labels we put on it or anything like that.
252
00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.919
So I think that it's really important that we think
253
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.200
about again, what are the problems we're solving, but what
254
00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.879
is the solution that people are going to actually pay for?
255
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.600
That is probably the number one question when I talk
256
00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.159
to entrepreneurs and they're like, oh, I have this great idea,
257
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.360
and they go on and on and on, and then
258
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.320
I'll ask them, well, how are you going to make money?
259
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.600
And they're like, oh, yeah, that yeah, that little thing,
260
00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.240
that little thing. Yeah, Well let me let me think
261
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.960
about that. You know. So there's a lot of companies
262
00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.519
out there that have nothing to do with impact that
263
00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.519
can't make any money. So you got that too. You know,
264
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.240
there's every extreme I think.
265
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.679
So let's hop back to the founder's side a little bit.
266
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.279
So what qualities do you look for in we were
267
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.200
talking about the horse and the jockey. What qualities do
268
00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.360
you look for in founders when you're deciding to invest,
269
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.120
when you're looking at that jockey.
270
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:03.120
Yeah, again, I don't know that it's necessarily that single founder.
271
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.559
It really does have to be the team. And if
272
00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:08.480
it's so early that you're just talking to the founders
273
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.879
or founder, then I think it's what's the plan and
274
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:17.799
do they have the you know, emotional IQ and the
275
00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.080
intellectual IQ to know who it is that they need
276
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.480
on the team in order to balance out what they
277
00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:29.480
don't have. So I think one of the biggest things
278
00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:34.320
that I've seen has really made an entrepreneur successful is humility.
279
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:36.759
And you don't see it very often. And it's a
280
00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:39.879
little bit of a balancing act because remember, entrepreneurs, they
281
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:42.320
have to be visionaries. They have to be ready to
282
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.200
go and just take it all the way to the
283
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:48.039
end and they've got it right. But at the same time,
284
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.600
if they're a little too overzealous, if they're a little
285
00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.480
bit too big for their breches, then you know, in
286
00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.960
a lot of cases, I don't see them succeed. So
287
00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.639
that level of like, hey, I only know what I know,
288
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.759
and I know that I have to surround myself with
289
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.559
smarter people who also can get done what I want
290
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.759
to get done. That is where I start to see success.
291
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.679
I can't agree more. I was to help you. There's
292
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.840
no room for arrogance and entrepreneurship.
293
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:13.480
That's right.
294
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.799
My mom used to tell me. She used to say,
295
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.039
my mom was amazing. She was my mentor, and she
296
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.879
said to me, if you are the smartest person in
297
00:15:21.919 --> 00:15:23.559
the room, you're in the wrong room.
298
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.360
That's exactly right.
299
00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.440
I find I love what you're what you're relaying. Let
300
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.399
me move on to you know. So we talked a
301
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.720
little bit about founders and how they communicate to you
302
00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.600
and how you can perceive that communication to make a decision.
303
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:43.320
How can founders effectively effectively communicate their vision and mission
304
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.919
to investors? Like, how are there any tools or any
305
00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:50.639
advice you could give to the founders when they're talking
306
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.279
to investors on how to do that.
307
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:57.039
So one of the things that I've seen entrepreneurs try
308
00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.519
to do is they try to just get as much
309
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.600
information out of their mouth as fast as they can
310
00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.480
to just try to make sure that they're hitting all
311
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.960
the points because all of it to them is so important.
312
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.720
It's almost like they don't have a filter. They just well,
313
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.440
then they're just trying to get all that information out.
314
00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:17.360
So think about every time that you're talking to somebody
315
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.440
as being the opportunity to get the next time that
316
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.840
you're going to talk to that person. It's not about
317
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.840
them making a decision to invest in that minute or
318
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.279
three or five that you have with them or whatever
319
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.440
it is. You're just trying to get to the next step.
320
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.639
So think about the things that are the most important.
321
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:37.879
For example, So I remember one time I was in
322
00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.840
a pitch listening to a company and the entrepreneur was
323
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:46.080
talking about whatever the company did. Okay, now this is
324
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.639
very typical, So entrepreneurs out there you should know this.
325
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.600
Like you're pitching, there's a room full of investors. You're
326
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.039
going to have an investor if you're not hooking them
327
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:58.879
at the beginning with you know, something juicy, We're thinking
328
00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:01.960
about what's for dinner tonight, and like I really have
329
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.799
to go do my laundry later, you know, like all
330
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.279
the things right, and so all of a sudden, about
331
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.960
three to five minutes into the pitch, the person says, yeah,
332
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.599
we just signed this contract with Walmart or whatever it was.
333
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.839
And I'm thinking to myself, why can you lead with that?
334
00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:17.519
Like maybe I would have paid a little bit more.
335
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.440
So the first like the beginning of it was just
336
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.000
like want, want here we are you know, so, like
337
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:27.400
I think you really do need to get out what
338
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.799
it is you're doing, what's so important, what's the big
339
00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.799
problem you're solving, and what milestones have you already hit.
340
00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:35.559
If you can just start with a couple of those things,
341
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.680
you will get an investor's attention that could then possibly
342
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.279
lead to other meetings. But you know, just trying to
343
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.160
be like we're doing and too fast, too much.
344
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:50.680
So we talked about diversity, and I'm wondering for those
345
00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:54.680
that are listening right, how how do you get the attention?
346
00:17:54.920 --> 00:18:00.240
How would you go about going to funds, angels, what
347
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.440
have you that are open to diversity? Like what is
348
00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:06.920
is there a screening? Is there a way you can
349
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.039
find them? What is the what are the keywords?
350
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:10.440
You know?
351
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:14.039
Impact? Like, how do if you're a female founder or
352
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.920
a black founder or Hispanic founder, how do you find
353
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.319
the money from people that are open to investing into diversity.
354
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.519
Yeah, there's no easy answer to that. On the Angel
355
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:31.720
Capital Association's website, we do have a listing of all
356
00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:36.200
the angel groups in the country in the US, and
357
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.039
and we talk a little bit about, you know, what
358
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.119
their thesis is, what they invest in. So there are
359
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.640
places that you can kind of look around and search
360
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.680
for that. But I always encourage entrepreneurs to be having
361
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.200
conversations with potential investors and people that could potentially help
362
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.680
you with your business way way earlier than you think.
363
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.039
So don't wait until whatever you're building is like so
364
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.359
shiny and new and wonderful, then show it to people.
365
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.960
You want to be building these relationships and starting to
366
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.200
have these conversations early on, because then as people get
367
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.079
to know you, and they get to know what you're building,
368
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.240
and they get to know your company, then they will
369
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.200
start to open the doors to the other networks that
370
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:15.759
are out there.
371
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.599
That's fair. One last question for you, and I don't
372
00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.559
usually plug books this much, but I'm just a big
373
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:27.440
fan of yours in particular, what is one key takeaway
374
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.599
you hope readers get from your book?
375
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.119
So, I, like I said, I wrote the book hoping
376
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.960
that I would encourage more people to be investors. But
377
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.759
I'm finding that to your point, there are a lot
378
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:45.119
of founders out there who have read it and they've said, hey, there,
379
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.519
you've kind of opened my eyes to the ways that
380
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.000
you can invest. And one of the things I'm particularly
381
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.920
hot on right now is using philanthropic capital to invest
382
00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.319
in a for profit company. So, as we talked about before,
383
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.160
there there are ways that you can actually build your
384
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.599
philanthropic checkbooks. So in a lot of cases it's through
385
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.720
a donor advice fund, which I talk about in the
386
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.920
book exactly how it all works. It's not very complicated,
387
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:14.680
but what it can do is it can help for
388
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.319
profit companies in the meantime, and then as those companies
389
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.119
do well, which you hope that they will, that money
390
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:26.359
can go back into your charitable fund and then potentially
391
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.200
help even more five oh one c three charities in
392
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.400
the future. So to me, this is like such a
393
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.480
win win where remember I talked earlier about like how
394
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:36.799
can we get the nonprofits and the for profit companies
395
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:38.759
to kind of work together to solve these problems. This
396
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.640
is one of those ways. So I'm hoping that people
397
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.680
will look at this and say, hey, Okay, I don't
398
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.440
know about investing. I've talked to a lot of people,
399
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.359
especially women, who will say, you know, investing is kind
400
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.759
of scary. My husband really does that that kind of thing.
401
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:57.519
But you know, philanthropy is something that a lot of
402
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.720
people they do all the time. How can we make
403
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.640
it so that it's easier for somebody to actually use
404
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.240
their philanthropic capital to help a startup company, and then
405
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.000
potentially that could even mean there's more dollars for the
406
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:11.960
charities down the road.
407
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.920
It's beautiful. I really appreciate your time and your energy
408
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.000
and your knowledge. Thank you so much for joining the podcast.
409
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.839
Thanks for having me, Greg You're welcome.
410
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:26.119
And that's it for another episode of the startup science
411
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.359
podcast Founders. As a thank you for leading the change
412
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.279
in our world, I'm offering free access to the startup
413
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.559
science platform Visionaries by Gregory Shepherd. It's a one stop
414
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:40.400
shop with everything you need, an Academy, investors, grants, and
415
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.440
a pitchfinder. Go to Gregoryshepherd dot com and use the
416
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:48.000
code Founders All Capital for free access. Check it out
417
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.279
for yourself. Until next time, I'm mistay my friends.
418
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.440
This startup science podcast with Gregory Shepherd is brought to
419
00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:02.000
you by Startupscience dot Io. Can log on to startupscience
420
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:06.079
dot io and use code Forbes to get free access.
421
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:09.519
To connect and find out more about Greg go to
422
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:14.359
Gregory shephard dot com. The startup Science Podcast is a
423
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.279
production of Forbes books.
