Civility Isn’t Just Being Polite: It's Building A Better Workplace

WEBVTT
00:00:46.405 --> 00:00:51.115
This week we are talking about civility in the workplace.
00:00:51.656 --> 00:00:57.240
And at that point, you would think that, great, this is going to be a solo episode for Chrissy.
00:00:59.573 --> 00:01:00.990
But I am going to stick around.
00:01:00.990 --> 00:01:03.990
She's she's probably going to talk more.
00:01:04.115 --> 00:01:08.865
You you definitely want to listen to her more, but I'm at least going to stick around, so, you should too.
00:01:08.865 --> 00:01:09.406
Stay tuned.
00:01:09.406 --> 00:01:12.406
Have fun.
00:01:12.615 --> 00:01:14.281
She's the CEO.
00:01:14.281 --> 00:01:16.490
He's the marketing and operations guy.
00:01:16.490 --> 00:01:18.656
If it's broken, you need.
00:01:18.656 --> 00:01:21.656
The business fix.
00:01:22.448 --> 00:01:23.240
Buckle up.
00:01:23.240 --> 00:01:26.406
Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha! Chuckles people.
00:01:26.823 --> 00:01:33.115
As soon as I thought of that, I would like to sell, but I can't.
00:01:33.656 --> 00:01:35.740
When it comes to civility in the workplace, I.
00:01:35.740 --> 00:01:38.740
Thought, Were you saying.
00:01:38.740 --> 00:01:42.281
That you're probably better to speak about civility than I am?
00:01:42.990 --> 00:01:44.115
Maybe.
00:01:44.115 --> 00:01:46.365
But I have a very distinct line.
00:01:46.365 --> 00:01:49.365
And then I'm like a penguin with a machete and choose violence.
00:01:50.031 --> 00:01:52.865
I, I 100% can see that.
00:01:55.823 --> 00:01:56.490
You're like, God, help.
00:01:56.490 --> 00:01:58.281
Me never find. That line.
00:01:58.281 --> 00:02:00.573
Yeah, 100 people, all that. First off. Yes.
00:02:00.573 --> 00:02:14.823
The second piece to that is, though, is that like from my perspective on that day, you have a wonderful way of cutting through the bullshit while still dealing with it.
00:02:15.740 --> 00:02:17.781
Whereas I don't deal with it.
00:02:17.781 --> 00:02:18.490
Yeah.
00:02:18.490 --> 00:02:25.281
You're, you're like oh we'll push this off to the side, we'll do this and I'm just straight machete.
00:02:25.281 --> 00:02:26.323
It's been a lot of work.
00:02:26.323 --> 00:02:28.740
I've done a lot of professional development around that.
00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:29.531
I know yeah.
00:02:29.531 --> 00:02:32.531
Have we talked about we. Have few times.
00:02:32.615 --> 00:02:35.698
That I know, I know, I know I could use some work on this.
00:02:35.948 --> 00:02:43.406
There's, the thing that I like is we have in our banter probably here to talk about digital bravery where someone was being bold.
00:02:44.198 --> 00:02:46.156
Right?
00:02:44.198 --> 00:02:46.156
Yeah. No, we're not we're not doing that.
00:02:46.156 --> 00:02:50.490
What we are going to talk about is even though there may be some issues with them right now.
00:02:51.323 --> 00:03:02.240
There was a sherm some research that came out from them that said over 43% of office tension is being fueled by political differences.
00:03:02.281 --> 00:03:04.865
You've never seen anything like that have you, Christie?
00:03:04.865 --> 00:03:07.323
Never. No. No, not at all.
00:03:08.490 --> 00:03:13.656
Also, that there is 63% more acts of incivility.
00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:18.865
Ooh. And I could see I in many ways I can see this and I can back.
00:03:18.865 --> 00:03:19.448
In the office.
00:03:19.448 --> 00:03:21.948
Yeah I back in the office I can see it.
00:03:21.948 --> 00:03:28.531
Plus I also feel like there's things that people would have brushed off years ago that now people are taking to heart solutely.
00:03:28.573 --> 00:03:33.865
I can see, I can see let's say 7% of this is one, 7% is the other.
00:03:33.865 --> 00:03:35.948
I know that's 14% for sure.
00:03:35.948 --> 00:03:38.948
Offense as an office sport.
00:03:39.573 --> 00:03:40.198
Yeah.
00:03:40.198 --> 00:03:41.698
See, I'm usually the.
00:03:41.698 --> 00:03:43.073
One offending people in the. Office.
00:03:43.073 --> 00:03:44.740
That's that's the.
00:03:44.740 --> 00:03:45.781
That is the only difference.
00:03:45.781 --> 00:03:53.073
So I mean, to me, this is obviously your jam to an extent.
00:03:53.073 --> 00:03:55.198
Or my anxiety. Yeah.
00:03:55.198 --> 00:03:56.240
Maybe both.
00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.656
It's I know it's going to be a little bit of both.
00:03:58.656 --> 00:04:01.531
How do you move past just being polite.
00:04:02.823 --> 00:04:08.948
This a c as soon as we said that, you know, like, Josh is out of this, he's just going to ask a couple of questions and shut up.
00:04:09.448 --> 00:04:15.906
Like, how do you get past just politeness and build that culture where civility, like, it's a core performance standard?
00:04:15.906 --> 00:04:16.865
I know that it is.
00:04:16.865 --> 00:04:17.740
Look at this thing.
00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:22.447
I know, I mean, I don't know if it's necessarily something on a quarterly review like civility.
00:04:22.447 --> 00:04:24.572
Is that a checkbox?
00:04:22.447 --> 00:04:24.572
I don't think that's the case.
00:04:24.572 --> 00:04:31.031
But how do you build that as something that's built into performance that actually I mean, look, this is protection for the business.
00:04:31.197 --> 00:04:31.781
Absolutely.
00:04:31.781 --> 00:04:35.197
If people are getting violent with each other, that's that's a tough day.
00:04:35.281 --> 00:04:36.156
Yeah.
00:04:36.156 --> 00:04:36.990
How do you build that in?
00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:43.865
So we start by saying, first that civility isn't about being polite or avoiding conflict.
00:04:40.865 --> 00:04:43.865
It is. It's about protecting the business.
00:04:43.865 --> 00:04:46.240
So politeness is passive.
00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:48.490
Civility is intentional.
00:04:48.490 --> 00:04:50.781
Oh, yeah.
00:04:50.781 --> 00:04:52.240
Oh, yeah.
00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:54.781
And I love. That civility isn't politeness. It's protection.
00:04:54.781 --> 00:05:00.281
So, you know, if leaders don't define how people are expected to disagree, stress is going to define it for them.
00:05:01.656 --> 00:05:03.406
Oh that's a great point.
00:05:03.406 --> 00:05:06.406
If you just leave people to their own devices don't.
00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.281
Not in this case you really can't.
00:05:09.281 --> 00:05:11.156
I'm done saying that.
00:05:11.156 --> 00:05:13.448
So I'm. Sorry you can finish your.
00:05:13.448 --> 00:05:16.031
Thought now. No we're good. That was, that was my thought.
00:05:16.031 --> 00:05:18.240
So you have to look at I think I have like five points.
00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.323
You have to look at civility as an operating system.
00:05:20.323 --> 00:05:24.073
So first I think of civility as part of the company's operating system.
00:05:24.073 --> 00:05:25.865
It's not a vibe. It's not a value poster.
00:05:25.865 --> 00:05:27.740
It's not crappy wall art.
00:05:27.740 --> 00:05:33.573
It's a collection of repeatable behaviors that produce respect, dignity and trust, especially under pressure.
00:05:33.906 --> 00:05:44.656
Because often when civility starts to creep up, in part, you're dealing with people's identity, but you're also when when things are stressful, people tend to be a little less civil.
00:05:44.865 --> 00:05:46.781
They don't have as long of a fuze.
00:05:46.781 --> 00:05:49.073
They don't have as big of a filter.
00:05:49.073 --> 00:05:52.740
And so if civility only exists when things are calm, it's not culture.
00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:53.698
It's really coincidence.
00:05:54.823 --> 00:05:59.073
Ooh. So yeah, civility has to it has to operate when things are stressful.
00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.865
And this is exactly why we teach it in resilient operating systems.
00:06:01.865 --> 00:06:05.490
You know, resilience and respect have to be operational, not aspirational.
00:06:06.323 --> 00:06:08.490
Or. Operational.
00:06:08.490 --> 00:06:10.448
Not aspirational.
00:06:10.448 --> 00:06:19.823
So teaching those interpersonal effectiveness skills that Dearman give fast, we've talked about in other episodes, reminding people that disagreement does not meet destruction, that we are allowed to disagree.
00:06:19.865 --> 00:06:25.531
I think that is something, especially in the air space, like people are just, oh, I'm offended because they said it.
00:06:25.531 --> 00:06:30.490
And it's like, well, they have the right to say it and you can choose to be offended or not offended sometimes.
00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:31.698
Other times we get to talk about it.
00:06:31.698 --> 00:06:35.865
But I mean, just disagreement doesn't mean you're offense.
00:06:35.865 --> 00:06:38.156
Okay. You can we can have differing opinions.
00:06:38.156 --> 00:06:41.156
So one thing I would say that can be helpful.
00:06:41.281 --> 00:06:44.281
Is there something that we call a desired state audit.
00:06:44.406 --> 00:06:52.365
So that is you know, CEOs really have to define the desired state clearly, not just what we value but what we will not tolerate.
00:06:52.656 --> 00:06:55.698
So what is the desired state that we have as an organization?
00:06:55.698 --> 00:06:58.531
For example.
00:06:55.698 --> 00:06:58.531
I noticed the the clear word in there.
00:06:58.531 --> 00:07:00.948
Very clear because to be clear is to be kind.
00:07:00.948 --> 00:07:02.823
We keep talking about these things.
00:07:02.823 --> 00:07:05.990
Yes, I clear clarity on the same. Yes.
00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.406
So for example in the desired state.
00:07:08.406 --> 00:07:14.698
So curiosity over ego, candor over contempt, disagreement without degradation.
00:07:14.698 --> 00:07:18.781
You know, we like things that have alliteration, but these are the desired states that we want.
00:07:18.781 --> 00:07:22.406
So, you know, if leaders don't name the boundaries, people are going to create their own.
00:07:22.406 --> 00:07:25.365
We talk about how employees want guardrails.
00:07:25.365 --> 00:07:28.365
And if we don't define them, they're usually messy.
00:07:28.531 --> 00:07:30.198
So it's really important.
00:07:30.198 --> 00:07:37.448
Next thing is when we're talking about operating system, if someone if their of a bug's going to enter the system it often comes through the leader.
00:07:37.448 --> 00:07:39.156
Yes. Yeah.
00:07:39.156 --> 00:07:41.490
So model what you mandate.
00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:44.948
Model the standard culture doesn't break down at the bottom.
00:07:44.948 --> 00:07:48.031
It breaks down at the top 100%. Yeah.
00:07:48.031 --> 00:07:56.573
So if a leader interrupts, if they snap, if they get hurt under stress, if they disagree with you and drive you into the ground, that behavior becomes normalized immediately.
00:07:56.573 --> 00:07:58.198
Well, you did it.
00:07:58.198 --> 00:08:00.115
So that means that I can do it.
00:08:00.115 --> 00:08:06.031
So you have to set the standard as the business owner, as the manager, as the leader to model what you mandate.
00:08:06.490 --> 00:08:06.990
So remember that.
00:08:06.990 --> 00:08:13.281
And if you if you mess it up, it can spread fast like that bug can get into this.
00:08:13.281 --> 00:08:14.240
It can just.
00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.615
And you got to remember too, that people don't listen to your value statement.
00:08:17.615 --> 00:08:18.990
They watch for your response.
00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:22.698
It's funny because we've talked about that with trust.
00:08:22.698 --> 00:08:25.323
We've talked about that with so many examples.
00:08:25.323 --> 00:08:29.156
One screw up can take you down quite a few notches. Yes.
00:08:29.615 --> 00:08:30.365
Yeah.
00:08:30.365 --> 00:08:36.365
So and there's another point in civility, and I think it's this line between ambivalence versus disagreement.
00:08:36.697 --> 00:08:42.905
And I've seen generationally that there's a movement towards I'd rather you not care than we disagree.
00:08:43.030 --> 00:08:45.280
I and that's concerning to me.
00:08:45.280 --> 00:08:48.697
And so that's, it's something that we need to continue to work on.
00:08:48.697 --> 00:08:51.572
But no, as a leader it starts with you.
00:08:51.572 --> 00:08:53.197
So model what you mandate.
00:08:53.197 --> 00:08:57.365
Another thing around civility is, you know, creating psychological safety.
00:08:57.405 --> 00:09:00.490
So creating the space where it is safe to disagree.
00:09:00.780 --> 00:09:03.780
But it is not safe to disrespect.
00:09:04.030 --> 00:09:06.322
And so psychological safety doesn't mean comfort.
00:09:06.322 --> 00:09:12.697
It means safety to disagree about the work without attacking the person or without attacking their values.
00:09:12.697 --> 00:09:23.865
And I think that's where in civility we get into this situation where instead of talking about the idea, we attack the person and then they feel that their values are being attacked and they don't have the ability to communicate.
00:09:23.865 --> 00:09:29.781
So, you know, teams should argue about ideas, not identities, because you can't argue identity.
00:09:29.781 --> 00:09:33.240
And when you start pushing it, someone say, well, you're this.
00:09:33.572 --> 00:09:34.865
There's no defense for it.
00:09:34.865 --> 00:09:38.781
You've hit them in their identity, and then you're going to have you're what?
00:09:38.906 --> 00:09:41.906
I don't understand why this person threw a stapler at me, like, well, I do.
00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:45.697
So you've written that report?
00:09:46.447 --> 00:09:49.447
Yeah.
00:09:49.531 --> 00:09:50.240
Yeah.
00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:52.365
So I would say, you know, you don't need thicker skin.
00:09:52.365 --> 00:09:53.697
You need better guardrails around this.
00:09:53.697 --> 00:09:55.865
So that's what's really important creating psychological safety.
00:09:55.865 --> 00:10:00.365
And I would say, you know, I have I have a citation today to you talked about Sherm.
00:10:00.365 --> 00:10:02.697
I want to talk about Google's project Aristotle.
00:10:02.697 --> 00:10:06.156
So it was one of the most widely cited workplace studies on team effectiveness.
00:10:06.156 --> 00:10:11.072
And what they found was the most successful teams were those with high psychological safety.
00:10:11.365 --> 00:10:14.822
They weren't necessarily the people that had the biggest and brightest in them.
00:10:14.822 --> 00:10:16.240
It was all about.
00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:26.740
An environment where people felt respected enough to take risks, offer ideas and disagree without fear of personal reprisal, which in tech is a really big deal.
00:10:26.822 --> 00:10:28.156
Huge, yeah.
00:10:28.156 --> 00:10:30.031
I mean, they're all about innovation. Yes.
00:10:30.031 --> 00:10:31.740
That's all they do now. Exactly.
00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:35.031
So psychological safety is a huge strong predictor of team success.
00:10:35.031 --> 00:10:41.490
You want your team to be successful as they're innovating is they're growing as they're doing the things build psychological safety.
00:10:41.490 --> 00:10:48.740
And so what Google's project Aristotle found is that psychological safety, the ability to speak up with fear, was the top driver of high performing teams.
00:10:48.740 --> 00:10:55.822
And that tracks perfectly with civility, because when people feel respected, they participate, innovate and solve harder problems together.
00:10:56.197 --> 00:10:58.240
Agreed. Yes, I have more points.
00:10:58.240 --> 00:10:58.822
Are you ready?
00:10:58.822 --> 00:11:01.406
Oh, I have one more. I want to say.
00:11:01.406 --> 00:11:04.406
I mean, you've got I mean, we're like ten, 12 minutes in.
00:11:04.531 --> 00:11:07.197
You've got like another 40 minutes.
00:11:04.531 --> 00:11:07.197
Oh, good. We can keep talking.
00:11:07.197 --> 00:11:09.156
I'm excited. We'll get to operations in a second.
00:11:10.697 --> 00:11:13.697
But the last one is resilience over silence.
00:11:14.197 --> 00:11:17.240
And this isn't about avoiding those hard conversations.
00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.947
It's really about being able to have them without blowing holes in trust.
00:11:21.656 --> 00:11:23.740
And so, you know, silence doesn't keep the peace.
00:11:23.740 --> 00:11:25.656
It just postpones the explosion.
00:11:25.656 --> 00:11:33.990
And I know for me, young leader, sometimes, Krissy, now I people think that my silence is acceptance and it's not.
00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:39.156
Sometimes it's formulating what the next conversation point is going to be or figuring out the question.
00:11:39.156 --> 00:11:44.822
But I've also been in that space where I didn't want to say anything because I just didn't want to take anybody off.
00:11:44.822 --> 00:11:47.615
So here's what I will say.
00:11:47.615 --> 00:11:50.615
I don't do that as much.
00:11:47.615 --> 00:11:50.615
I feel. You don't.
00:11:51.156 --> 00:11:53.156
But I do.
00:11:53.156 --> 00:11:54.947
It's still something I'm working on.
00:11:54.947 --> 00:12:02.365
So the resilient leaders can sit with discomfort long enough to solve the problem instead of transferring their stress to the room.
00:12:02.365 --> 00:12:03.281
And that's something else.
00:12:03.281 --> 00:12:10.322
And civility is, again, you model what you mandate, but your your team can pick up on the energy that you're delivering.
00:12:10.322 --> 00:13:16.626
And if you're sitting there silent, but they can tell that you're sir clenched or you're biting the side of your jaw, they're like, oh crap, what's going to happen to blow up?
00:13:16.626 --> 00:13:20.293
Or we can't wait till she does, depending on what the situation is.
00:13:20.668 --> 00:13:22.960
So really you have to remember that self-regulation.
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:25.835
So when you're building civility it's a leadership skill.
00:13:25.835 --> 00:13:28.960
And civility is often the outcome of regulation.
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.793
Learning how to to manage those emotions yourself.
00:13:31.793 --> 00:13:33.460
And it's not restraint.
00:13:33.460 --> 00:13:35.710
It's not about like how much did I hold back?
00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:37.710
It's how much did I regulate internally?
00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:39.543
Yeah.
00:13:39.543 --> 00:13:41.876
Real quick. Yeah.
00:13:41.876 --> 00:13:44.710
Give me the difference between that regulation and restraint.
00:13:44.710 --> 00:13:47.543
Because to me that's it's interesting.
00:13:47.543 --> 00:13:52.126
That's that's mushy between those two squishy mushy I'm going to say squishy squishy.
00:13:53.001 --> 00:13:57.418
But it's to me it's that regulation I almost see those is somewhat the same.
00:13:58.001 --> 00:14:00.710
And I guess I know you see them differently.
00:14:00.710 --> 00:14:04.210
Yeah. So regulation is there are emotions.
00:14:04.210 --> 00:14:07.126
There are things that are happening internally inside of me.
00:14:07.126 --> 00:14:12.168
I am going to continue to move through that so that I can communicate.
00:14:12.168 --> 00:14:15.168
Restraint is I'm just not going to say anything.
00:14:15.251 --> 00:14:18.793
I don't have the ability to have a conversation without throat punching someone.
00:14:18.793 --> 00:14:20.293
So that is restraint.
00:14:20.293 --> 00:14:22.543
That okay.
00:14:20.293 --> 00:14:22.543
So that that makes more sense to me now.
00:14:22.543 --> 00:14:31.418
So the regulation is having the emotions working through the emotions, not not pushing those emotions down. Yes.
00:14:31.418 --> 00:14:36.210
And saying, oh, we're going to we're going to act like a robot and just pretend this didn't happen.
00:14:36.418 --> 00:14:37.460
It's regulating that.
00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:41.960
So that way you have a a proper and civil.
00:14:42.543 --> 00:14:43.751
Yes. Reaction.
00:14:43.751 --> 00:14:48.460
Well, because we are humans having human experiences and it is okay for us to have emotions in the workplace.
00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:54.793
It's not okay for sometimes those emotions to blow up into, bad behavior.
00:14:54.793 --> 00:14:57.793
But but at times there it is.
00:14:57.793 --> 00:14:59.835
Absolutely.
00:14:57.793 --> 00:14:59.835
It's like I think it's impossible.
00:14:59.835 --> 00:15:08.168
I don't think you're a good leader if you cannot show at times frustration, disappointment at the same time, joy, elation, excitement.
00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:15.001
You need to be a multifaceted person for your team because you'll be human, because they will react the way that you react.
00:15:15.001 --> 00:15:23.210
So you need to be able to model calm and composure, not just how to grit your teeth and like, dig your nails into a table because you don't want.
00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:25.001
Because someone's telling you something you don't like.
00:15:25.001 --> 00:15:27.043
Like learn how to build those skills.
00:15:27.043 --> 00:15:29.085
And that's what emotional regulation is about.
00:15:29.085 --> 00:15:31.876
It is about learning how to effectively communicate.
00:15:31.876 --> 00:15:34.876
How do I stay mindful when my emotions are hijacked?
00:15:35.293 --> 00:15:37.085
That makes sense.
00:15:35.293 --> 00:15:37.085
And it's it's interesting.
00:15:37.085 --> 00:15:42.460
So like you're saying during a team's meeting, your team should not see you biting a wooden spoon.
00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:44.793
No, that is not acceptable.
00:15:46.418 --> 00:15:51.210
And if they do, then we we may have some some questions or conversation we need to.
00:15:52.335 --> 00:15:58.626
So, With that, I'd like to shift.
00:15:58.626 --> 00:16:02.001
So, Josh, I can set the vision, but vision doesn't run the day to day.
00:16:02.001 --> 00:16:02.626
It does not. Right.
00:16:02.626 --> 00:16:10.210
From an operations standpoint, how do we stop treating civility like a feeling and start treating it like a process that we can actually measure and manage?
00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:13.210
I love the emphasis you put on feeling healing.
00:16:14.335 --> 00:16:14.918
I figured you.
00:16:14.918 --> 00:16:17.918
Would.
00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:26.710
To me, I mean, first off, there's there's that certain just level of respect that this all has to be built off of.
00:16:26.710 --> 00:16:30.876
I have seen it where people are trying to be civil to those that they don't respect.
00:16:31.876 --> 00:16:37.793
And once again, it comes across as blowing sun where the sun normally does not shine cracked.
00:16:38.418 --> 00:16:40.501
And once again, that shows through.
00:16:40.501 --> 00:16:43.668
And now that's more likely to make that other person uncivil.
00:16:43.668 --> 00:16:46.418
So now we're going to have two people that are feeling just.
00:16:46.418 --> 00:16:48.585
That creates passive aggressive aggression.
00:16:48.585 --> 00:16:50.085
100%.
00:16:50.085 --> 00:16:53.376
So to me, I mean, it is that minimal effort to be civil.
00:16:53.376 --> 00:16:58.960
And it's making sure that you're around people that you respect if you do not respect your coworkers.
00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:02.210
Yeah, there's conversations that need to be had there.
00:17:02.210 --> 00:17:07.460
If someone is acting like they don't respect their coworkers, there's bigger conversations that need to be had there.
00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:12.750
I mean, it's once again, you have to look at your crappy wall art and be like, are we really following through on this?
00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:15.500
Yeah, if you're not, then yeah.
00:17:16.542 --> 00:17:24.167
The other thing is too, is that it's the small efforts that make a big difference when it comes to civility.
00:17:25.710 --> 00:17:30.042
Their time, their dignity, their right to a professional environment.
00:17:30.875 --> 00:17:35.710
We had a discussion a few podcasts ago about someone that would come over a boss.
00:17:35.710 --> 00:17:37.000
My boss.
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:38.000
You know where this is going?
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.750
Oh, I do, I can still smell it. Right.
00:17:40.750 --> 00:17:43.042
I would pass gas in my cubicle.
00:17:43.042 --> 00:17:44.835
That's that's not dignity.
00:17:44.835 --> 00:17:47.835
That's not a professional environment.
00:17:48.292 --> 00:17:54.792
The other thing is too, is like, I've been in a couple of meetings recently where, like, important people have shown up late.
00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:57.917
And I'm like, you just don't do. That as my.
00:17:57.917 --> 00:17:59.210
Yeah, that's my biggest pet.
00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:01.000
I mean, if someone shows up at, like,
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:05.542
00 meeting and they're there at 301, I got no problem. No.
00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:09.500
If they're there at 307, I.
00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:12.210
And I get a problem with that because that's disrespect.
00:18:12.210 --> 00:18:13.835
That's the lack of dignity.
00:18:13.835 --> 00:18:19.917
And that's what takes away from that civility that we are trying to build in the workplace.
00:18:20.917 --> 00:18:27.792
It's if you don't have those types of things that you're going to build that incivility.
00:18:27.792 --> 00:18:30.917
To me, there are it's squishy.
00:18:31.335 --> 00:18:32.835
So it is sometimes tough.
00:18:32.835 --> 00:18:34.875
Like this is not something that I like.
00:18:34.875 --> 00:18:37.875
I'm not going to put KPIs to this. Okay.
00:18:38.167 --> 00:18:39.460
And you know, I'm the KPI guy.
00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:41.917
I know you are.
00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:41.917
So this is why I'm excited to hear this.
00:18:41.917 --> 00:18:44.417
It feels like you said operations like four times.
00:18:44.417 --> 00:18:47.417
I am saying this is the squishy feeling stuff.
00:18:47.625 --> 00:18:49.625
It's like we're both getting.
00:18:47.625 --> 00:18:49.625
I feel like we should.
00:18:49.625 --> 00:18:50.793
Should we switch. Chairs?
00:18:53.250 --> 00:19:02.125
I mean, to me, I'm not going to send out a survey on a monthly basis to say, do you feel like your coworkers have been civil towards you recently?
00:19:03.460 --> 00:19:04.125
You don't need to.
00:19:04.125 --> 00:19:06.460
You can tell you. 100% if.
00:19:06.460 --> 00:19:08.460
You're walking the floor of your organization.
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:13.543
If you are involved in meetings, you can tell if people are being pay attention.
00:19:13.543 --> 00:19:14.625
Just pay attention.
00:19:14.625 --> 00:19:15.835
Yeah, look at your people.
00:19:15.835 --> 00:19:17.625
Do they look relaxed and comfortable?
00:19:17.625 --> 00:19:26.793
I mean, not feet up on the desk, relaxed and comfortable, but do they look like they're not like if their shoulders are up by their ears, there's a problem?
00:19:27.918 --> 00:19:47.085
They're I mean, I've been in a number of workplaces where you can just see the tension because there's 1 or 2 employees that, hold hostility towards others, and you're like, oh, and I mean, if someone like, if they're sitting in their cubicle and you walk up to their cubicle and they kind of when you when you get there, there's a problem. Yes.
00:19:47.668 --> 00:19:54.668
Or they're sitting in the meeting across from each other in the conference room and they're glaring at each other, and it's like, are you upset with that person?
00:19:54.793 --> 00:19:55.585
You don't want to ask?
00:19:55.585 --> 00:19:59.293
Or it's like, hey, do you have or they're working on a group project together, presentation together.
00:19:59.293 --> 00:20:01.875
And they're like standing there like they're hostages.
00:20:01.875 --> 00:20:04.668
It's pretty easy to tell if people are not getting along.
00:20:04.668 --> 00:20:07.085
It very much is.
00:20:07.085 --> 00:20:12.375
Now, the problem is that I see that so many people don't do is they don't.
00:20:12.375 --> 00:20:15.043
And I'm going to use one of your favorite things here.
00:20:15.043 --> 00:20:16.793
They don't document this.
00:20:16.793 --> 00:20:17.585
No I don't.
00:20:17.585 --> 00:20:20.210
They may observe it.
00:20:20.210 --> 00:20:22.500
But they don't make a note to revisit it.
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:24.875
They don't make a note to relook at it.
00:20:24.875 --> 00:20:30.918
So they may observe it 15 or 20 times before they find that, like, maybe there's a problem here. Yeah.
00:20:30.918 --> 00:20:32.543
Be intentional about it.
00:20:32.543 --> 00:20:52.335
Go well, look and see what is going on, and then document it and put it like I was like, one of the things that I do with stuff like this is I put it on my calendar and say, hey, next Thursday, take, take the other office crews or just take the survey, go around, kind of take the temperature of the room.
00:20:52.335 --> 00:20:53.835
Yeah. How are people doing?
00:20:53.835 --> 00:21:02.918
But unless you tell yourself to do that and be aware of that once again until it is at a boiling point, you are not going to notice the issue.
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.335
Exactly. You don't see it.
00:21:04.335 --> 00:21:14.250
If you're if you're if you're in the day to day all the time and you don't make a point to pay attention if you're not a naturally, I mean, emotionally intelligent person, you're not intuitive about it.
00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:17.418
You're not hard wired for team dynamics, and not every business owner is.
00:21:17.418 --> 00:21:20.168
And that is perfectly fine. So start.
00:21:17.418 --> 00:21:20.168
That's why you schedule it.
00:21:20.168 --> 00:21:21.250
That's why you pay attention.
00:21:21.250 --> 00:21:23.210
That's why you hire a fractional H.R. Consultant.
00:21:24.293 --> 00:21:26.543
They'll tell you yes they will.
00:21:26.543 --> 00:21:31.500
They'll just walk into the room and be like, what did you do to these people?
00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:32.960
What happens?
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:35.168
Oh, I 100% know this.
00:21:35.168 --> 00:21:38.168
And it's to me, it's that it's that intentionality behind it.
00:21:38.168 --> 00:21:48.918
Because if you don't have that and I know every business owner likes to think that they're totally in tune with what's going on with their employees all the time and they're not know.
00:21:48.918 --> 00:21:51.293
And I mean, even me, I try and pay attention.
00:21:51.293 --> 00:21:53.418
I'm not try and ask the questions of this.
00:21:53.418 --> 00:21:56.750
And I still know that this is something that I can get so much better at.
00:21:56.750 --> 00:21:57.168
Yeah.
00:21:57.168 --> 00:22:01.375
Especially as your organization grows, it becomes impossible for you to be that center all the time.
00:22:01.375 --> 00:22:03.793
And there's things I don't know about.
00:22:03.793 --> 00:22:04.750
So yeah.
00:22:04.750 --> 00:22:08.293
I the, the yeah, the to take that temperature and to think about that.
00:22:08.293 --> 00:22:22.210
And this is the piece where everyone talks about working on your business instead of in your business, and especially as a leader, rather than doing the thing, whether you're a manager or whether you're a middle manager or whatever, these are the things that you have to work on.
00:22:22.210 --> 00:22:24.460
The business is sort of in the business.
00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:26.918
Get out of the spreadsheet for ten minutes. Exactly.
00:22:26.918 --> 00:22:27.793
That's all it takes.
00:22:27.793 --> 00:22:30.418
I have quarterly conversations with your direct reports.
00:22:30.418 --> 00:22:33.125
Yep. The problem is, is it's tough to get out of the spreadsheets.
00:22:33.125 --> 00:22:35.960
Just make the time. Make the time.
00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:39.918
Another mistake that I see people do is they try and manage attitudes.
00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:41.500
Different attitudes are good.
00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:47.710
You're going to have different people that are going to be doing different things, that are going to have different mindsets and those are awesome.
00:22:48.418 --> 00:22:50.668
You cannot manage someone's attitude.
00:22:50.668 --> 00:22:53.168
You cannot manage someone's emotions.
00:22:54.668 --> 00:23:04.585
Every guy on the planet knows how effective it is to get in an argument with their significant other and be like, just, just calm down.
00:23:09.043 --> 00:23:10.043
That is, you tried.
00:23:10.043 --> 00:23:12.793
That is the classic. Example of you.
00:23:12.793 --> 00:23:15.793
Trying to manage someone else's emotions.
00:23:16.918 --> 00:23:21.960
That's that's usually, that is usually the last thing that that guy says before.
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:22.418
Yeah.
00:23:22.418 --> 00:23:26.460
Before getting hit with a rolling pin, a pan, a knife.
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:28.125
What a no, I'm. Not talking to me anymore.
00:23:28.125 --> 00:23:29.668
Right, right, right.
00:23:29.668 --> 00:23:30.710
Just that.
00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:36.335
So to me, that is the I was so excited to say that one, because that is the classic example of how to manage someone's emotions.
00:23:36.585 --> 00:23:39.250
You cannot do that in the workplace.
00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:42.250
Don't think you're the master manipulator.
00:23:42.335 --> 00:23:44.668
You're not none of us are.
00:23:44.668 --> 00:23:46.293
Sorry.
00:23:44.668 --> 00:23:46.293
That's just not how it's going to work.
00:23:46.293 --> 00:23:57.043
Now, you can coach on reactions and you can coach people on how they express those things and be like, hey, in the meeting yesterday, remember when you lost your shit?
00:23:58.085 --> 00:23:59.210
Be an observer.
00:23:59.210 --> 00:24:02.000
Right? How about take two seconds?
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.000
Just think about like, what's what's the result of this?
00:24:05.335 --> 00:24:07.125
We're going to give everyone time to talk.
00:24:07.125 --> 00:24:10.000
We're going to give everyone the time to say their things.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:13.625
Just don't go across the table towards them. Yes.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:19.668
But that's once again, that's coaching people on something that's not telling them, hey, calm the hell down.
00:24:19.668 --> 00:24:26.750
Well, and it's understanding part of it too, I think, is understanding how people either process information or communicate information.
00:24:26.750 --> 00:24:34.000
And I think often civility, things can, can bridge in a different direction because people communicate differently.
00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:38.625
So I mean, a great example, I mean, I am a verbal processor.
00:24:39.335 --> 00:24:47.585
I will talk about things for a very long time, not everybody wants to sit next to a verbal processor while they're talking about things, and they're like, have you made a decision?
00:24:47.585 --> 00:24:55.043
Yeah, I'm like, no, I'm still thinking about it when I say I'm an efficient verbal processor, but there's some people that just still don't think I'm efficient, like the one I'm married to.
00:24:55.043 --> 00:24:59.500
So it's really important that you understand, you know, how do you communicate?
00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:08.043
And I think often when we're called into a situation where you've got two team members that do not communicate well, that's one of the first things that I start observing is just kind of seeing how they interact.
00:25:08.043 --> 00:25:10.793
And, you know, is one a verbal processor is another one.
00:25:10.793 --> 00:25:13.085
I mean, how do they handle emotional regulation?
00:25:14.085 --> 00:25:16.668
Some of it may just be skill set.
00:25:16.668 --> 00:25:19.668
Yes. Okay.
00:25:16.668 --> 00:25:19.668
So talk to me how they're wired.
00:25:19.710 --> 00:25:20.793
This person is an extrovert.
00:25:20.793 --> 00:25:22.460
This person's an introvert.
00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:25.918
We don't understand why they don't get along or why this other person, just like always, has a tick.
00:25:25.918 --> 00:25:28.625
It's just there are ways to walk around it.
00:25:28.625 --> 00:25:31.460
Either they flinch when they walk in the room.
00:25:31.460 --> 00:25:38.585
The one thing that I always like to look at, too, is to say to to get a better idea of what's going on and start looking at things that I don't want to say.
00:25:38.585 --> 00:25:41.585
You can document because you don't need to keep a tally sheet in every meeting.
00:25:41.585 --> 00:25:43.250
No, but you need to be an observer, right?
00:25:43.250 --> 00:25:48.375
And look at and be mindful of, like, hey, I noticed you interrupted Bob three times.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.460
Only Bob, you didn't interrupt Bill.
00:25:52.460 --> 00:25:55.335
You didn't interrupt James. You interrupted Bob three times.
00:25:55.335 --> 00:25:58.210
Every time Bob opened his mouth, you're like, I don't know about that.
00:25:58.210 --> 00:25:59.710
Why is that. Right?
00:25:59.710 --> 00:26:01.960
Just question that is that lack of civility.
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:03.625
And there's a reason typically behind that.
00:26:03.625 --> 00:26:08.710
So the one thing that I always look at too is that interruption is typically almost always an escalation.
00:26:09.418 --> 00:26:16.000
And it is looking to escalate those things once again, escalating typically leads to incivility.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.085
Yeah.
00:26:17.085 --> 00:26:22.375
The same thing is the other the other way that you look at it is to is good ideas shouldn't need to compete for attention.
00:26:22.375 --> 00:26:27.835
If one person says one thing, someone else should have the time to say something else.
00:26:27.835 --> 00:26:34.543
The one thing that I have to say that like where all this comes down to it for me, is civility.
00:26:35.085 --> 00:26:37.335
Is. The bare minimum.
00:26:37.335 --> 00:26:38.625
Yeah.
00:26:38.625 --> 00:26:39.585
I worked at a company.
00:26:39.585 --> 00:26:49.418
I got screamed at twice by someone, right when I was in a meeting with the CEO about it, he's like, wow, we've moved her four times, and each time she's been a problem.
00:26:49.875 --> 00:26:52.043
Dude, you're the problem.
00:26:52.043 --> 00:26:52.835
That's you.
00:26:52.835 --> 00:26:55.043
Right? This is a, like, tolerating this.
00:26:55.043 --> 00:26:56.418
And you're. Right.
00:26:56.418 --> 00:26:57.375
You're a tyrant.
00:26:57.375 --> 00:27:01.293
You're tolerating what isn't even considered the bare minimum.
00:27:01.375 --> 00:27:07.125
She's performing below the bare minimum because she's, like you said, she's the tyrant to other employees.
00:27:07.125 --> 00:27:09.710
So, like, for me, the tolerance is almost zero.
00:27:09.710 --> 00:27:11.418
I get if someone had a bad day.
00:27:11.418 --> 00:27:12.543
Everybody has a bad day.
00:27:12.543 --> 00:27:19.293
Sure, I have gone on some tirades, not like hands in the air screaming at someone, but I look.
00:27:19.293 --> 00:27:21.460
I've been short with people, I get it.
00:27:21.460 --> 00:27:24.625
But let's go to the basic laws of physics here.
00:27:24.625 --> 00:27:38.460
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and realize that if you are blowing off steam to someone else, they're absorbing that now, where they direct that energy, they could direct that energy in depression.
00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:45.210
They could direct that energy in sabotaging your email campaign, that could direct that energy.
00:27:45.210 --> 00:27:48.210
So giving them this big blow off of energy.
00:27:48.375 --> 00:27:50.750
It's not.
00:27:48.375 --> 00:27:50.750
Worth it. It's got to go somewhere.
00:27:50.750 --> 00:27:56.043
The other thing that I look at with civility is, did you hire this person and why?
00:27:56.043 --> 00:28:00.543
Because if there's an issue about this, why are they here?
00:28:00.543 --> 00:28:02.043
Yeah.
00:28:02.043 --> 00:28:10.335
We talk about like, yeah, I would say 90% of the things that we talk about, it's we talk about clarity.
00:28:11.210 --> 00:28:14.250
I, I just enjoy getting to Christie to smile every time.
00:28:14.250 --> 00:28:16.125
I see the word dirty.
00:28:16.125 --> 00:28:19.210
The other piece, though, is to is, I mean, we talk about culture.
00:28:19.625 --> 00:28:23.375
We're talking about the culture of how to get the most for your people.
00:28:23.375 --> 00:28:29.293
And the problem is, is it is that little bit of upfront investment in that culture is what makes it so.
00:28:29.293 --> 00:28:37.000
If you have the good culture, you are not worried about the like civility is because people have that respect.
00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:39.710
Once again, this comes down to your shitty wall art.
00:28:39.710 --> 00:28:42.250
What are your mission and vision statements?
00:28:42.250 --> 00:28:43.585
Are they just just bad?
00:28:43.585 --> 00:28:44.168
What are.
00:28:44.168 --> 00:28:47.125
You modeling them and.
00:28:44.168 --> 00:28:47.125
Are you modeling them?
00:28:47.125 --> 00:28:57.418
That is 100% it I yeah, I always I always find it funny when someone blames their employee for something because I'm like, well, they're kind of your responsibility.
00:28:57.418 --> 00:29:00.085
Yeah. They're they're doing what you told them to.
00:29:00.085 --> 00:29:03.085
This person's wreaking havoc in my office, right?
00:29:03.125 --> 00:29:04.543
I wonder why that happened.
00:29:06.585 --> 00:29:07.875
Weird.
00:29:07.875 --> 00:29:12.293
Defining what what we're doing and why the hell we're doing it is a big deal.
00:29:12.335 --> 00:29:17.793
Because once again, that is going to keep everyone in line and everyone moving the same direction.
00:29:17.793 --> 00:29:19.418
And no one's screaming at someone else.
00:29:19.418 --> 00:29:24.460
Yeah, what about like, this is the big question.
00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:28.085
Yeah. Politics is hot.
00:29:28.085 --> 00:29:29.835
Yeah.
00:29:28.085 --> 00:29:29.835
We don't talk about politics, really.
00:29:29.835 --> 00:29:30.625
I mean, well, yeah.
00:29:30.625 --> 00:29:37.960
I mean, and to me there's there's all sorts of reasons not to do it, but a lot of people do like to talk politics.
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:42.085
They do 53% of workers want to ban.
00:29:42.375 --> 00:29:46.210
They do political talk in the studio.
00:29:48.043 --> 00:29:49.460
What are your thoughts.
00:29:49.460 --> 00:29:59.085
Well I think it's impossible when your business or industry isn't a political business or if you're a political football we can't I mean our organization, we're in the insurance industry.
00:29:59.085 --> 00:30:03.460
We are in the news not I but like what we do is in the news right now.
00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:07.335
Every day it's going to be until, I don't know, they figure it out.
00:30:08.085 --> 00:30:10.668
So which.
00:30:10.668 --> 00:30:13.168
At this rate we're looking at 2045, I.
00:30:13.168 --> 00:30:15.418
Don't even I don't even know, I don't I don't even think about it.
00:30:15.418 --> 00:30:16.460
But I will say, you. Know.
00:30:18.168 --> 00:30:20.500
Here's what might start when you ban things.
00:30:20.500 --> 00:30:23.585
So banning conversation doesn't remove the tension.
00:30:23.585 --> 00:30:26.043
It just drives it underground. Yep.
00:30:26.043 --> 00:30:30.335
So I mean the issue isn't what people believe, it's how they behave.
00:30:30.335 --> 00:30:42.460
So when we started seeing things change in 2020 and 2021, we took our team and we continue to take them through tolerance training so we can have conversations where we disagree.
00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:44.418
We can have uncomfortable conversations.
00:30:44.418 --> 00:30:46.250
We have to be able to have, comfort conversations.
00:30:46.250 --> 00:30:47.543
We're in air and insurance.
00:30:47.543 --> 00:30:49.000
We tell people no a lot.
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.750
We tell them they're wrong a lot.
00:30:50.750 --> 00:30:52.750
We have to disagree on things.
00:30:52.750 --> 00:30:55.625
So it's something that is extremely important.
00:30:55.625 --> 00:30:58.750
And I think that respectful disagreement is a skill.
00:30:58.750 --> 00:31:02.335
And if leaders don't teach it, people default to emotional shortcuts. Yep.
00:31:02.585 --> 00:31:03.835
That's it.
00:31:03.835 --> 00:31:09.750
I mean. It's funny you say the the banning conversation doesn't remove tension, does it?
00:31:09.750 --> 00:31:12.710
You know what popped into my head when you started talking about that? What?
00:31:13.835 --> 00:31:15.585
Fifth grade.
00:31:15.585 --> 00:31:16.250
Oh, boy.
00:31:16.250 --> 00:31:22.710
I got I went to Kmart and got guns n roses appetite for destruction.
00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:25.125
Okay.
00:31:25.125 --> 00:31:27.710
Probably not the best thing for a fifth grader to listen.
00:31:27.710 --> 00:31:29.625
To, but they let you check out at Kmart.
00:31:29.625 --> 00:31:30.918
Correct?
00:31:30.918 --> 00:31:32.750
When my parents heard this, of course.
00:31:32.750 --> 00:31:34.460
In the car on the way home.
00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:44.210
As I'm right, I remember my mother and father sitting in the front seat as rocket Queen comes on thinking, this probably isn't the right thing.
00:31:44.418 --> 00:31:46.750
They banned that tape from me.
00:31:46.750 --> 00:31:49.418
Do you think that stopped me from finding a way to listen to it?
00:32:26.748 --> 00:32:29.748
Oh heck no.
00:32:29.830 --> 00:32:30.498
That's sad.
00:32:30.498 --> 00:32:33.623
If you. Listen to it on repeat all. Rack.
00:32:33.623 --> 00:32:36.080
Is that just maybe. What? It's what to listen.
00:32:36.080 --> 00:32:37.580
Mom and dad don't like this.
00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:41.123
Oh my God, give me more. Yeah, give me more.
00:32:42.623 --> 00:32:47.873
How? How do you feel like when you're trying to keep the peace.
00:32:48.289 --> 00:33:01.789
I mean, there's some loneliness when we're trying to manage different pieces where someone's louder, someone's quieter, there's head butting, there's different views on things where.
00:33:01.873 --> 00:33:08.289
Like, you're the only responsible person in the room, or you're the person that's holding everything together.
00:33:08.289 --> 00:33:09.414
Right? Right.
00:33:09.414 --> 00:33:12.414
Do you think it's scary to say that I'm the only adult in the room ever?
00:33:12.414 --> 00:33:17.080
I yes, I didn't say it.
00:33:17.080 --> 00:33:18.580
I know you agreed.
00:33:18.580 --> 00:33:20.330
And in many cases, rightfully so.
00:33:20.330 --> 00:33:25.164
But like, I mean, how do you combat that loneliness?
00:33:25.164 --> 00:33:28.498
I think acknowledging that it's real is really important first.
00:33:28.705 --> 00:33:29.998
So it exists.
00:33:29.998 --> 00:33:37.289
The other thing that I would say is, you know, peer groups are helpful, having other business owners that you have friend that you are friends with.
00:33:37.705 --> 00:33:43.748
But part of being able to navigate these is really teaching your team how to communicate effectively.
00:33:43.914 --> 00:33:44.164
Yeah.
00:33:44.164 --> 00:33:53.164
So I mean, if you do one thing this year for your team, help them navigate disruption, teach them, or have someone else teach them about how to communicate when they're in fear.
00:33:53.164 --> 00:33:59.330
Uncertainty, because that's often where civility comes in as people get into fear or they get into power dynamics.
00:33:59.580 --> 00:34:04.164
And so it's really important you're building your interpersonal effectiveness skills as a leader.
00:34:04.164 --> 00:34:05.664
You're helping them build their skills.
00:34:05.664 --> 00:34:09.248
And that makes it less lonely because you have a skill set that you can share.
00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:13.456
I there's there's something you touched on there that I kind of want to revisit.
00:34:13.456 --> 00:34:17.914
You said, the fear I believe or power dynamics.
00:34:18.831 --> 00:34:25.498
The power dynamics to me are a huge thing because there's some things where you see, like, let's say there's five salespeople.
00:34:25.539 --> 00:34:28.123
Yeah. There's all anytime you have five.
00:34:28.123 --> 00:34:30.081
Five competitive people, there's always one alpha.
00:34:30.081 --> 00:34:31.789
There's right.
00:34:31.789 --> 00:34:38.498
And there's always that one that is going to try and steamroll everyone else.
00:34:38.498 --> 00:34:43.164
And I feel like that's one of those things where you have to watch that power dynamic.
00:34:43.164 --> 00:34:45.539
Sure, there's always the one that's kind.
00:34:46.580 --> 00:34:50.455
I don't want to say in charge ish, even maybe in charge adjacent. Yes.
00:34:51.498 --> 00:34:52.789
They're the high performer. They.
00:34:52.789 --> 00:34:56.455
So you have a tendency to go with their gut on certain things they do.
00:34:56.873 --> 00:35:00.414
But you have to make sure that the other ones aren't feeling threatened.
00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:02.123
Yes, by this one.
00:35:02.123 --> 00:35:07.373
Because and I mean, I see it all the time that the top dog salesman gets all sorts of preferential treatment.
00:35:07.998 --> 00:35:10.498
Generating a ton of money.
00:35:10.498 --> 00:35:11.205
Yeah.
00:35:11.205 --> 00:35:13.789
But don't let that cross over into civility.
00:35:13.789 --> 00:35:16.039
No you can't let a crossover into civility.
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:23.039
And you have to be able to again modeling what you mandate, making sure that everybody has the same set of skills to be able to communicate.
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:28.789
Because you can be a really good performer in the sales space and you can be a really crappy communicator.
00:35:29.248 --> 00:35:37.289
And so if you can build those skills around that person with other people in the team, it can also benefit that individual very much.
00:35:37.289 --> 00:35:40.580
So for sure, some of the key takeaways for today.
00:35:40.580 --> 00:35:44.664
Yeah, one that I love is stop ignoring the minor stuff.
00:35:45.955 --> 00:35:48.955
The, the eye rolling, the dismissive tones.
00:35:49.789 --> 00:35:53.372
There is a reason why people sometimes turn their cameras off in teams meetings.
00:35:54.122 --> 00:35:57.330
Yes, because they can't hide their face very well.
00:35:58.955 --> 00:36:02.872
But anytime you see something like that, that is the canary in the coal mine, right?
00:36:02.872 --> 00:36:11.539
I mean, it's easy to watch someone say something and someone else lean back or someone fold their arms and you're like, and those are the things to pay attention to for that.
00:36:11.539 --> 00:36:12.205
Yeah.
00:36:12.205 --> 00:36:15.622
I would say small behaviors or early warnings or early opportunities.
00:36:16.080 --> 00:36:18.664
So. Yeah, opportunity out of.
00:36:18.664 --> 00:36:19.539
Opportunity out of this.
00:36:19.539 --> 00:36:22.747
Because when you address things early, it's not punitive, it's protective.
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:25.539
So you're showing the team that we care enough to keep this healthy.
00:36:25.539 --> 00:36:30.622
So nip it in the bud or give them the resources to be able to communicate effectively. To.
00:36:31.164 --> 00:36:33.205
The other one. Audit your hiring.
00:36:33.205 --> 00:36:35.664
Yes. Stop hiring uncivil people.
00:36:35.664 --> 00:36:36.414
That I see it.
00:36:36.414 --> 00:36:40.372
So many cases where people use softball questions tell me the best thing about you.
00:36:40.372 --> 00:36:46.039
Tell me the worst thing about you know, you need to find out what like where this person is coming from.
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:49.622
For me, I mean, everyone knows success is a shared thing.
00:36:49.622 --> 00:36:51.205
Is our core value as a company.
00:36:51.205 --> 00:36:57.539
If I don't see an example of that from someone when we're talking, not happening.
00:36:57.705 --> 00:36:58.289
Yeah.
00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:04.789
And to kind of piggyback off what you're saying and auditing, hiring, you're hiring for how people handle tension, not just their talent.
00:37:05.539 --> 00:37:11.039
So at the end of the day, those skills get you hired, but behavior determines whether or not someone belongs.
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.914
So the real question isn't can't they do the job?
00:37:13.914 --> 00:37:16.914
It's how do they show up when things get hard?
00:37:16.997 --> 00:37:20.789
Because civility under pressure is one of the clearest indicators of long term fit.
00:37:21.247 --> 00:37:23.664
Can we stay kind when we're stressed out?
00:37:23.664 --> 00:37:24.914
Yeah. Love that.
00:37:26.414 --> 00:37:32.622
When someone's stressed out, the other thing that I like, occasionally we'll have something that, let's say borders on on civility.
00:37:34.372 --> 00:37:39.455
Don't just like, at the moment, address it and let it go three days later.
00:37:39.455 --> 00:37:40.372
You have to check back.
00:37:40.372 --> 00:37:44.539
Five days later, you have to look back and be like, is this problem being rectified?
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:48.039
Check in with people that are involved in stuff like that.
00:37:48.122 --> 00:37:51.664
If you don't, they're going to be like, oh, I was never heard from again.
00:37:51.747 --> 00:37:52.497
Yeah.
00:37:52.497 --> 00:37:54.872
And I would say the final is leaders go first.
00:37:54.872 --> 00:38:00.830
So that last piece is culture doesn't improve until you do so civility respect emotional regulation.
00:38:00.830 --> 00:38:02.372
Those are the leadership skills.
00:38:02.372 --> 00:38:03.622
They're not employee problems.
00:38:03.622 --> 00:38:06.539
If you want calm you model calm.
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:10.580
If you want respect demonstrated under pressure, show them what it looks like.
00:38:10.747 --> 00:38:15.080
If you want people to communicate well, you need to practice, especially when it's the hardest.
00:38:15.205 --> 00:38:20.122
If you are a crappy communicator, you don't get to blame your team for being crappy communicators.
00:38:20.122 --> 00:38:22.789
It starts with you and your team.
00:38:22.789 --> 00:38:27.330
It's never going to outgrow the example that you set, but they will absolutely mirror it.
00:38:27.330 --> 00:38:29.080
You're 100% yeah.
00:38:29.080 --> 00:38:32.872
If you can't act civil that then you cannot expect that.
00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:35.372
Did we have recently an episode about expectations?
00:38:35.372 --> 00:38:37.789
We did look at that. Look at that.
00:38:37.789 --> 00:38:43.705
And by the way, one of our listeners, Bill, said he was sending that to a lot of his managers.
00:38:43.705 --> 00:38:45.414
So thank you. Wonder that Bill.
00:38:45.414 --> 00:38:52.830
Yeah, I feel like this this is why we're having the podcast is to to help people have these conversations and to get those things out there.
00:38:52.914 --> 00:38:54.955
In fact, he doesn't even need to have the conversation.
00:38:54.955 --> 00:38:57.914
He just sends them an email with a link that they're going to click on.
00:38:57.914 --> 00:39:00.955
Yes, probably with some regret, but hopefully they learn something from it.
00:39:00.997 --> 00:39:01.330
Yeah.
00:39:02.789 --> 00:39:05.789
As we start to wrap up here.
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.580
You've got to see you've got two employees.
00:39:08.580 --> 00:39:12.247
Let's say what you walk out to the parking lot, you look at their cars.
00:39:12.247 --> 00:39:15.247
There's a Trump sticker on one, there's a Bernie sticker on the other one.
00:39:17.497 --> 00:39:18.164
They.
00:39:18.164 --> 00:39:20.872
They see them and they. Share a cubicle.
00:39:20.872 --> 00:39:21.664
Correct.
00:39:21.664 --> 00:39:25.455
They see each other's cars and they're like we working together.
00:39:25.830 --> 00:39:28.830
How do you handle that.
00:39:28.997 --> 00:39:31.997
Oh okay.
00:39:32.122 --> 00:39:36.289
So you take politics off the table and you put behavior on the table.
00:39:36.664 --> 00:39:39.414
So the expectation is an agreement.
00:39:39.414 --> 00:39:40.997
It's professionalism.
00:39:40.997 --> 00:39:44.455
So this is one of those moments where it's not like you're going to your corner and you're going to your corner.
00:39:44.455 --> 00:39:44.872
No, no, no.
00:39:44.872 --> 00:39:52.330
We come to the table together and you reset the standard clearly that you don't have to think alike, but you do have to work together respectfully.
00:39:52.664 --> 00:39:57.830
And if they can't meet that bar, then it becomes a performance issue and it's not a personal one.
00:39:57.830 --> 00:39:59.955
Oh, I like that.
00:39:59.955 --> 00:40:09.164
And if I can add something to that too, I have found to when you bring people to table like that and you start talking about non-related non politically rated related things, suddenly they aren't that far apart.
00:40:09.164 --> 00:40:10.705
Yeah. And it doesn't work.
00:40:10.705 --> 00:40:11.539
We're going to remove that.
00:40:11.539 --> 00:40:13.289
We're going to talk about how teamwork is our core value.
00:40:13.289 --> 00:40:15.372
How are we going to be a team and get these things done.
00:40:15.372 --> 00:40:17.747
How are we going to care for our clients and get these things done?
00:40:17.747 --> 00:40:21.955
I love it because we have clients that have those stickers and in their parking lots to.
00:40:22.914 --> 00:40:24.622
So it's all good.
00:40:24.622 --> 00:40:25.372
Whatever sticker.
00:40:25.372 --> 00:40:28.080
You, whatever. Sticker you have, we're good. Yeah.
00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:31.747
Whatever stick you have or don't like, there's a client out there who has.
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:36.205
Exactly whatever it is, which is why we live in the middle and we practice civility at all times.
00:40:36.205 --> 00:40:37.247
So yep.
00:40:37.247 --> 00:40:42.414
Josh, what's the single biggest operational mistake managers make when they see something uncivilized, like.
00:40:42.414 --> 00:40:44.997
Someone wearing a caveman outfit?
00:40:44.997 --> 00:40:47.872
No. They hesitate.
00:40:47.872 --> 00:40:48.830
They kind of sit.
00:40:48.830 --> 00:40:51.914
They sit back and be like, oh, that was awkward.
00:40:52.289 --> 00:40:54.497
Yeah. And then they just sit there and look at it.
00:40:54.497 --> 00:40:56.872
Like it doesn't happen again. Right now.
00:40:56.872 --> 00:40:59.872
I mean, you need to address that that second, right?
00:40:59.872 --> 00:41:01.789
That in there as soon as you know about it.
00:41:01.789 --> 00:41:08.122
Right then in there show decisive action to be like, this is not tolerated.
00:41:08.122 --> 00:41:20.247
And as I said before, you follow up a few days later and you follow up a few days after that, because one time, once again, is not going to address that situation. Now.
00:41:20.455 --> 00:41:27.122
If you get a whiff of anything coming from that, that's once again, not what you're looking for.
00:41:27.705 --> 00:41:29.039
It's time to make big changes.
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:30.205
Yeah, big changes.
00:41:31.247 --> 00:41:38.164
That being said, you're like, everyone out there is trying to take back their culture, their profits.
00:41:38.164 --> 00:41:41.955
Christy, thank you again for your solo episode.
00:41:42.747 --> 00:41:43.705
It was not solo.
00:41:43.705 --> 00:41:45.289
You took us together.
00:41:45.289 --> 00:41:47.414
We did. We did, we did, we did. And we.
00:41:47.414 --> 00:41:48.914
I thought we were very civilized.
00:41:48.914 --> 00:41:49.705
Yes. Discussion.
00:41:49.705 --> 00:41:52.205
That was that was that was pleasant.
00:41:52.205 --> 00:42:01.164
That all being said, if you want to find more resources, make sure you hit the business fix, podcast.com next week.
00:42:01.830 --> 00:42:04.830
We are talking about the rock star trap.
00:42:05.122 --> 00:42:05.914
I like that.
00:42:05.914 --> 00:42:10.580
Oh, this is going to be fun because in most cases, We've all heard the Peter Principle. Yep.
00:42:10.580 --> 00:42:18.872
And if you haven't, you're going to hear it next week because your best worker might be your worst manager ever.
00:42:19.497 --> 00:42:20.539
Typically. Yes. Yep.
00:42:21.747 --> 00:42:22.455
Do me a favor.
00:42:22.455 --> 00:42:23.247
Take care of yourself.
00:42:23.247 --> 00:42:30.289
If you can't take care of someone else too, we will see you very, very soon.
00:42:45.122 --> 00:42:45.789
Stay.