00:00:00
Speaker 1: As a subscriber to this Bloomberg podcast, we thought you might enjoy Thinking Capital, a new sponsored series from HSBC and Bloomberg Media Studios, exploring modern forms of capital.
00:00:15
Speaker 2: We call them like the coffee people. It's people who want to grab a coffee with you only when you have a job that they think is useful for them or, you know, whatever. And then when you don't have that job anymore, that person will never pick up the phone.
00:00:28
Speaker 3: If I'm going to a country, it can't really just be about the head of state or the CEO of the largest corporations and state-owned enterprises. I should be meeting academics. I should be meeting civil society to understand how they interact with each other.
00:00:42
Speaker 4: You can't earn trust in a day. You can't earn trust in a week. It takes years, but it can take a hot second to lose it.
00:00:50
Speaker 5: The nature of modern capital is changing. Traditional balance sheet wealth is no longer the only currency driving global influence. So what is driving it? I'm Will.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: And I'm Lucy. Welcome to the Thinking Capital podcast, a series by HSBC and Bloomberg Media Studios. We're decoding the modern currencies of success. Intellectual, Cultural, financial, and in this episode, social capital.
00:01:16
Speaker 5: We all know that the right networks can open doors. But how do you build credibility in places where you don't have a track record yet? We have a global lineup of business leaders. Parag Khanna, founder and CEO of AlphaGeo. Danny Young, CEO and co-founder of Prenetics. Jasmine Al-Gamal, founder and CEO of Avaros Strategies. Danielle Johnson, global head of institutional clients at HSBC. and Jorge Arce, CEO of HSBC Mexico.
00:01:46
Speaker 1: Social capital is not simply the number of people you know, it's the level of confidence people are willing to place on you.
00:01:53
Speaker 5: Parag Khanna is a strategist, author, and founder of Alpha Geo, an AI analytics firm. Based in Singapore, he spent decades studying the forces that shape global economies.
00:02:06
Speaker 3: Sometimes we think of social capital at a societal level as being the degree of cohesion in a society. So trust, cohesion within networks is the way I think of social capital to make it something much more concrete rather than abstract. And I would also add one thing. It's not something that you self-assess. It is a property that the system confers on you.
00:02:32
Speaker 1: Jasmine Algamel, founder and CEO of advisory firm Avaros Strategies, has a career that's moved between diplomacy, defense, and strategy, including time at the Pentagon.
00:02:44
Speaker 2: For me, social capital really boils down to two main things, trust and empathy. And that might be a surprising answer to some, especially the empathy part. But when you think about what people view normally as social capital, they think about things like networks or rank or access or capability. But when you unpack those terms and you think about what actually does it mean to have a network that you can rely on, it really boils down to having the ability to create shared trust between you and the person you're working with. at any level and every level. And in order to build that trust, I think you have to have a degree of empathy, which people also sometimes mistake for sympathy. And that's not the case. It's simply putting yourself in the other person's shoes, understanding their perspective, their narrative, how they see the world, their fears. What are they nervous about? What are they trying to achieve?
00:03:46
Speaker 1: Empathy creates the initial connection. What about sustaining it?
00:03:51
Speaker 5: Danielle Johnson, HSBC's Global Head of Institutional Clients, has seen how competency, built on a foundation of empathy and consistency, can then grow into trust.
00:04:02
Speaker 4: So you need to be competent. You become reliable to them and provide a consistent experience. They know they can get to you, they know what they're going to get, they know you're going to get the right answer. That Social capital in the early days of brand building is really about demonstrating expertise for people to come to you. Later on, that's kind of table stakes, that you're competent, that you've got the expertise.
00:04:27
Speaker 1: What does that mean for Jorge Arce, CEO of HSBC Mexico?
00:04:33
Speaker 6: So technical knowledge, which is extremely important, and there are no shortcuts for that. But you cannot just put technical knowledge above everything else. And that's probably one of the biggest mistakes I've seen in my career. I've seen brilliant people fail because they forget that they need to motivate people, that they need to gain their trust, that they need to deliver, that they have to keep their word, that they feel that you have good intentions on their careers or making sure that you deliver to your client.
00:05:04
Speaker 5: And for Danny Young, serial entrepreneur and co-founder of global health sciences company Prenetics, technical knowledge was an initial barrier. Danny had built a series of successful consumer companies, but had no background in genetics.
00:05:18
Speaker 7: I think as an outsider, everyone's always going to be questioning you, right? Or being very skeptical. So I think to prove that you actually know more than what they expect, so you have to research more, you have to read more.
00:05:32
Speaker 1: And building on that foundation of competency, trust gets amplified through reliability, relationships, integrity, and shared values.
00:05:42
Speaker 4: The one piece within that mix which you cannot underestimate is relationships and take time to build. And not everybody has them. You can be highly competent and not have any relationships. But I also think the importance of integrity can be underestimated. As we're in a world that's becoming more and more transactional, I think that integrity with which people hold themselves when they conduct business is paramount. It's not always the best price that wins. It's that trusted partner with integrity where you have a deep relationship.
00:06:16
Speaker 1: Strong relationships matter. But what about when you're trying to find your way into a new market? It turns out the people you know less well can be just as valuable.
00:06:27
Speaker 6: There is something called the value of weak relationships. And those weak relationships probably are even more valuable than strong relationships because those are the relationships that you might have across industries, across businesses, across countries. People that you might not have a day-to-day relationship with that person, but they can give you access to opportunities, to information, to other contacts.
00:06:52
Speaker 5: Distant ties can expand the reach of your network and open unexpected doors. but knowing when to go deeper is important too.
00:07:01
Speaker 3: I really embedded in countries. I didn't treat my research as an in and out business trip. In fact, when I would travel to countries when I was writing my first book, I actually never had an onward journey or flight or bus ticket or train out. I stayed until I felt like I knew the country so well that that final marginal day was not delivering any more value or utility. And I could spend up to weeks or months in a place not knowing how long I would be there. And that, of course, was crucial to building trust. Another thing for me in terms of building out the networks was sort of stakeholder mapping is what you would call it today. My own intuitive version at the time, you know, 25 years ago, was really saying if I'm going to a country, it can't really just be about the head of state and the cabinet or the CEO of the largest corporations and state-owned enterprises. I should be meeting journalists. I should be meeting academics. I should be meeting civil society. So all stakeholders, a cross-section, a representation of a place to get to know it and to understand how they interact with each other.
00:08:06
Speaker 2: I try to understand the narrative of the person that I'm interacting with, whether it's a client, whether it's an audience that I'm speaking to. How do they see the world? How do they see their place in the world? And it all starts from there. I actually want to tell you a story about why this is what I do. And it goes back to one of our best diplomats, in my opinion, in the U.S., Ambassador Ryan Crocker. And I was at a dinner where he was speaking. It was a dinner with what we call foreign area officers, FAOs, but they're about to be deployed to an embassy abroad. And Ambassador Crocker said, I want to give you one piece of advice. And That is that when you get to your station, I want you to read about the history of that place as it's told by the people from that place. I want you to read about their history through their eyes, in their words. And again, it's one of those things that stuck with me forever. I think it's very easy for leaders to make mistakes going into different cultures by focusing on superficial things. I've seen this, of course, in practice because a lot of our work focuses on the Middle East, where non-Middle Eastern leaders will go to the Middle East and they will study. You know, they have good intentions and they will study customs, like put your hand over your heart, you know, when you're saying thank you. If you're visiting a mosque, take your shoes off. Those are all important things, of course. But I think at a deeper level, it's really important to also understand how different cultures define terminology and terms differently than you would. So for example, how do they define trust? Is it based on family connections? Is it based on results? Is it earned trust? Is it implicit trust? Those nuances are really important. What do concepts like shame and honor, how important are they to that culture? Because those are concepts that can change things so dramatically for the better or for the worse. And so I think really trying to understand what is behind the superficial and how successful relationships are built is really important and often missed.
00:10:45
Speaker 1: Back in Mexico... Jorge Arce gives that idea a name, confianza.
00:10:52
Speaker 6: Confianza is almost like a brotherhood. It's like what defines Mexico. When somebody tells you, te tengo confianza, it's the biggest compliment and the biggest responsibility you have with somebody. So when somebody tells you, I have confianza in you, you have to treasure it, but you have to take care of it. Because if you break it, it's gone. And I know the word trust, and I lived abroad for a long time. But confianza in the context of Mexico is almost like a, you're my family. It's an unbreakable bond. It's an unbreakable bond.
00:11:27
Speaker 5: And confianza can pay off in tangible ways.
00:11:31
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example from a country that I won't necessarily name. And I remember this was after my book having come out and this country's foreign ministry had taken and really put it to use and said, you know, this is going to become our logic in a way for organizing our diplomatic structure. So I went to visit this country's federal executive officials. And one of the sort of senior researchers, not just figuratively, literally dumped the And she said, you know, all the major management consultancies have offered us these studies of what we should do. And guess what? They're all pretty much the same versions of each other. We're going to give these to you and you tell us, distilled into 10 pages, go disappear for a month. get us in 10 pages. What of this is actually useful to us? Because you, meaning me, understand us and these people don't. And so that, in a way, I sort of like leapfrogged in a way all these gazillion dollar management consultancies simply because this government knew that they could trust me because I'd spent time there out of my own interest. And obviously it captured a their worldview on their behalf through my work. And that was accidental. But it's a real world example because those of us who are entrepreneurs or in business, you need your in. And I didn't tell them what I wanted to do for them. They told me what they wanted me to do for them.
00:12:56
Speaker 5: You are listening to Thinking Capital from Bloomberg Media Studios and HSBC. In this episode, we're exploring social capital. How do you build a network in a new market? The first social breakthrough might come when somebody leads with open-ended curiosity, rather than an overt agenda.
00:13:15
Speaker 1: For Danny Young, his latest wellness brand, IM8, began somewhere far less formal. A dinner invitation, a mutual friend, and one of the biggest football stars on the planet, David Beckham.
00:13:30
Speaker 7: I was thinking, hey, there's no downside meeting with David, right? It was a great opportunity. So when we got started talking, I think he was very intrigued about my consumer background, a couple of my life sciences background. And again, I wasn't trying to pitch him anything. It was just individuals trying to talk. He was sharing with me how in the category of supplements and that it was very difficult or overwhelming to maintain it as a routine, especially when they're traveling on a weekly basis. And then so as an entrepreneur, I was thinking, hey, how do we Solve this problem. And then this is where we came up with iMeet together. It wasn't like I didn't have iMeet when I met him. So I was coming with this concept together. Dave has never put his name as a co-founder to this category. That meant a lot if he was able to do that.
00:14:20
Speaker 5: Serendipity got Danny to dinner, but it did not get him the partnership.
00:14:26
Speaker 7: It wasn't like immediate, right? Because again, David, he gets pitched so often and he has a big team that just protects his interest, which he should. To David, he really wanted to make sure if he was going to put his name as a co-founder, this product needed to literally be the best one in the market. Otherwise, there's no reason why he would want to partner with me, right? So if this was 10 years ago, there's no way David would have worked with me. Because I didn't have that credibility, I didn't have the track record. That's very important that you don't want to just work with some random person, correct? You want to be able to work with someone that has been able to build something before. Because a lot of people can talk, but very few can actually execute. And so I believe I've been able to show that I've been able to execute in each one of my prior business ventures.
00:15:16
Speaker 5: By now, we've heard how trust begins. The next question is what happens when you try to use it?
00:15:22
Speaker 1: For Jasmine Algamel, the test is whether the network can actually be activated and how to create value on both sides.
00:15:31
Speaker 2: Any one of us probably knows hundreds of people, people we've worked with, people we've traveled with. But I think the ability to turn connections into an actionable network, you know, a network that can be activated. One thing that's important, I think, when it comes to activating your network is, when you have used that network before, did you use it to positive effect, not only for you, but for the people you were connecting? Because that's what strengthens your network and keeps them coming back and keeps them picking up the phone when you make that call.
00:16:09
Speaker 7: I think a lot of times, you know, especially business, et cetera, you know, let's say if you meet people, it's like, they're always, oh, you know what, if I refer you to you this, you know, can I get a commission or whatever, right? So I think the people that, are always delivering. I mean, they don't really think short and decided. Again, you can tell very easily if someone's just trying to be very transactional and trying to build a long-term relationship.
00:16:30
Speaker 2: We call them like the coffee people. It's people who want to grab a coffee with you only when you have a job that they think is useful for them. When you don't have that job anymore, that person will never pick up the phone. Oh my gosh, it's terrible. Don't ever do that. Ever.
00:16:46
Speaker 7: Especially now with Instagram, AI, right? I think the reality is people connections, live events are becoming much more impactful, much more meaningful. That can never be beaten by AI or replaced. The connection of meeting face-to-face, having a meal together, having a drink together.
00:17:07
Speaker 4: It's a really interesting question at this moment in time when trust is questioned, when technology is taking over, and you're not sure if you're speaking to an agent or an individual often, but HSBC is a massive institution, 160-year history, fantastic brand. But it doesn't work unless the people inside the business are trusted. So you can have a terrific external brand, but it only takes one bad apple to bring something down. So the power of an individual within these big organizations is so strong. It is that human capital that's what makes the place tick. You can't earn trust in a day. You can't earn trust in a week. It takes years, but it can take a hot second to lose it.
00:17:52
Speaker 2: Sometimes you will not know when that trust has been lost if you're not looking out for the signs. The meetings are still happening. You have the person's number on WhatsApp. They're still picking up the phone. And yet, something has changed because the trust has been lost. Sometimes I didn't spend enough time protecting relationships that I had cultivated when I was living in one country and then moved to another. Sometimes you get lax and someone sends you a message and you're like, I'll answer it later. And then it's been six months and you can't really answer it anymore.
00:18:29
Speaker 5: Enduring relationships are built on open lines of communication. That also means getting into the habit of responding, even when the answer is sometimes no.
00:18:41
Speaker 6: Tell the truth. Have communication. Be present. Don't try to solve things that you cannot solve. I cannot do everything. There are things I have to say no, but at least I answered them. The priority is to get to know the people around you because that's the seed that will let you grow your network. Be humble. Try to understand. Try to learn. And try to become part of that environment. You have to work at it every day. If you take time to build those relationships and not be in this bubble, you're going to do extremely well.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: And don't assume every valuable relationship needs an immediate outcome. One of Danny's most pivotal partners, the molecular biologist Dennis Lo, initially turned Danny down.
00:19:28
Speaker 7: Yeah, he rightfully rejected me at the time because I didn't have a background in DNA testing or genetic testing. But we kept in touch those 10 years and eventually at the right time. the right moment, we were able to then partner together and work together.
00:19:41
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the paradox of social capital. The relationships with the most future value are often the ones we can't quite put a finger on.
00:19:50
Speaker 2: Today.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: That's because real human connections and real social capital take time.
00:19:56
Speaker 5: So the next time you're heading to a new market, what can you take from our international panel?
00:20:01
Speaker 1: First, understand the market before trying to unlock its opportunities. Look beyond the obvious and start making those groundwork connections.
00:20:10
Speaker 5: Then let relationships compound rather than look for an immediate return. Because what you're building isn't just a network or a database of convenient contacts. It's the confidence people are willing to place in you. If you keep showing up, keep delivering, and keep your word, credibility can become trust. And trust, opportunity.
00:20:31
Speaker 1: Our thanks once again to our international super connectors, Danielle Johnson, Danny Young, Jorge Arce, Jasmine Elgamel, and Parag Khanna.
00:20:42
Speaker 5: Thinking Capital is a partnership between HSBC and Bloomberg Media Studios. Please do look out for future editions of Thinking Capital across Bloomberg Video, Podcasts, Print, and online as we continue to decode modern capital.
00:20:57
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: As a subscriber to this Bloomberg podcast, we thought you might enjoy Thinking Capital, a new sponsored series from HSBC and Bloomberg Media Studios, exploring modern forms of capital.
00:00:15
Speaker 2: We call them like the coffee people. It's people who want to grab a coffee with you only when you have a job that they think is useful for them or, you know, whatever. And then when you don't have that job anymore, that person will never pick up the phone.
00:00:28
Speaker 3: If I'm going to a country, it can't really just be about the head of state or the CEO of the largest corporations and state-owned enterprises. I should be meeting academics. I should be meeting civil society to understand how they interact with each other.
00:00:42
Speaker 4: You can't earn trust in a day. You can't earn trust in a week. It takes years, but it can take a hot second to lose it.
00:00:50
Speaker 5: The nature of modern capital is changing. Traditional balance sheet wealth is no longer the only currency driving global influence. So what is driving it? I'm Will.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: And I'm Lucy. Welcome to the Thinking Capital podcast, a series by HSBC and Bloomberg Media Studios. We're decoding the modern currencies of success. Intellectual, Cultural, financial, and in this episode, social capital.
00:01:16
Speaker 5: We all know that the right networks can open doors. But how do you build credibility in places where you don't have a track record yet? We have a global lineup of business leaders. Parag Khanna, founder and CEO of AlphaGeo. Danny Young, CEO and co-founder of Prenetics. Jasmine Al-Gamal, founder and CEO of Avaros Strategies. Danielle Johnson, global head of institutional clients at HSBC. and Jorge Arce, CEO of HSBC Mexico.
00:01:46
Speaker 1: Social capital is not simply the number of people you know, it's the level of confidence people are willing to place on you.
00:01:53
Speaker 5: Parag Khanna is a strategist, author, and founder of Alpha Geo, an AI analytics firm. Based in Singapore, he spent decades studying the forces that shape global economies.
00:02:06
Speaker 3: Sometimes we think of social capital at a societal level as being the degree of cohesion in a society. So trust, cohesion within networks is the way I think of social capital to make it something much more concrete rather than abstract. And I would also add one thing. It's not something that you self-assess. It is a property that the system confers on you.
00:02:32
Speaker 1: Jasmine Algamel, founder and CEO of advisory firm Avaros Strategies, has a career that's moved between diplomacy, defense, and strategy, including time at the Pentagon.
00:02:44
Speaker 2: For me, social capital really boils down to two main things, trust and empathy. And that might be a surprising answer to some, especially the empathy part. But when you think about what people view normally as social capital, they think about things like networks or rank or access or capability. But when you unpack those terms and you think about what actually does it mean to have a network that you can rely on, it really boils down to having the ability to create shared trust between you and the person you're working with. at any level and every level. And in order to build that trust, I think you have to have a degree of empathy, which people also sometimes mistake for sympathy. And that's not the case. It's simply putting yourself in the other person's shoes, understanding their perspective, their narrative, how they see the world, their fears. What are they nervous about? What are they trying to achieve?
00:03:46
Speaker 1: Empathy creates the initial connection. What about sustaining it?
00:03:51
Speaker 5: Danielle Johnson, HSBC's Global Head of Institutional Clients, has seen how competency, built on a foundation of empathy and consistency, can then grow into trust.
00:04:02
Speaker 4: So you need to be competent. You become reliable to them and provide a consistent experience. They know they can get to you, they know what they're going to get, they know you're going to get the right answer. That Social capital in the early days of brand building is really about demonstrating expertise for people to come to you. Later on, that's kind of table stakes, that you're competent, that you've got the expertise.
00:04:27
Speaker 1: What does that mean for Jorge Arce, CEO of HSBC Mexico?
00:04:33
Speaker 6: So technical knowledge, which is extremely important, and there are no shortcuts for that. But you cannot just put technical knowledge above everything else. And that's probably one of the biggest mistakes I've seen in my career. I've seen brilliant people fail because they forget that they need to motivate people, that they need to gain their trust, that they need to deliver, that they have to keep their word, that they feel that you have good intentions on their careers or making sure that you deliver to your client.
00:05:04
Speaker 5: And for Danny Young, serial entrepreneur and co-founder of global health sciences company Prenetics, technical knowledge was an initial barrier. Danny had built a series of successful consumer companies, but had no background in genetics.
00:05:18
Speaker 7: I think as an outsider, everyone's always going to be questioning you, right? Or being very skeptical. So I think to prove that you actually know more than what they expect, so you have to research more, you have to read more.
00:05:32
Speaker 1: And building on that foundation of competency, trust gets amplified through reliability, relationships, integrity, and shared values.
00:05:42
Speaker 4: The one piece within that mix which you cannot underestimate is relationships and take time to build. And not everybody has them. You can be highly competent and not have any relationships. But I also think the importance of integrity can be underestimated. As we're in a world that's becoming more and more transactional, I think that integrity with which people hold themselves when they conduct business is paramount. It's not always the best price that wins. It's that trusted partner with integrity where you have a deep relationship.
00:06:16
Speaker 1: Strong relationships matter. But what about when you're trying to find your way into a new market? It turns out the people you know less well can be just as valuable.
00:06:27
Speaker 6: There is something called the value of weak relationships. And those weak relationships probably are even more valuable than strong relationships because those are the relationships that you might have across industries, across businesses, across countries. People that you might not have a day-to-day relationship with that person, but they can give you access to opportunities, to information, to other contacts.
00:06:52
Speaker 5: Distant ties can expand the reach of your network and open unexpected doors. but knowing when to go deeper is important too.
00:07:01
Speaker 3: I really embedded in countries. I didn't treat my research as an in and out business trip. In fact, when I would travel to countries when I was writing my first book, I actually never had an onward journey or flight or bus ticket or train out. I stayed until I felt like I knew the country so well that that final marginal day was not delivering any more value or utility. And I could spend up to weeks or months in a place not knowing how long I would be there. And that, of course, was crucial to building trust. Another thing for me in terms of building out the networks was sort of stakeholder mapping is what you would call it today. My own intuitive version at the time, you know, 25 years ago, was really saying if I'm going to a country, it can't really just be about the head of state and the cabinet or the CEO of the largest corporations and state-owned enterprises. I should be meeting journalists. I should be meeting academics. I should be meeting civil society. So all stakeholders, a cross-section, a representation of a place to get to know it and to understand how they interact with each other.
00:08:06
Speaker 2: I try to understand the narrative of the person that I'm interacting with, whether it's a client, whether it's an audience that I'm speaking to. How do they see the world? How do they see their place in the world? And it all starts from there. I actually want to tell you a story about why this is what I do. And it goes back to one of our best diplomats, in my opinion, in the U.S., Ambassador Ryan Crocker. And I was at a dinner where he was speaking. It was a dinner with what we call foreign area officers, FAOs, but they're about to be deployed to an embassy abroad. And Ambassador Crocker said, I want to give you one piece of advice. And That is that when you get to your station, I want you to read about the history of that place as it's told by the people from that place. I want you to read about their history through their eyes, in their words. And again, it's one of those things that stuck with me forever. I think it's very easy for leaders to make mistakes going into different cultures by focusing on superficial things. I've seen this, of course, in practice because a lot of our work focuses on the Middle East, where non-Middle Eastern leaders will go to the Middle East and they will study. You know, they have good intentions and they will study customs, like put your hand over your heart, you know, when you're saying thank you. If you're visiting a mosque, take your shoes off. Those are all important things, of course. But I think at a deeper level, it's really important to also understand how different cultures define terminology and terms differently than you would. So for example, how do they define trust? Is it based on family connections? Is it based on results? Is it earned trust? Is it implicit trust? Those nuances are really important. What do concepts like shame and honor, how important are they to that culture? Because those are concepts that can change things so dramatically for the better or for the worse. And so I think really trying to understand what is behind the superficial and how successful relationships are built is really important and often missed.
00:10:45
Speaker 1: Back in Mexico... Jorge Arce gives that idea a name, confianza.
00:10:52
Speaker 6: Confianza is almost like a brotherhood. It's like what defines Mexico. When somebody tells you, te tengo confianza, it's the biggest compliment and the biggest responsibility you have with somebody. So when somebody tells you, I have confianza in you, you have to treasure it, but you have to take care of it. Because if you break it, it's gone. And I know the word trust, and I lived abroad for a long time. But confianza in the context of Mexico is almost like a, you're my family. It's an unbreakable bond. It's an unbreakable bond.
00:11:27
Speaker 5: And confianza can pay off in tangible ways.
00:11:31
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example from a country that I won't necessarily name. And I remember this was after my book having come out and this country's foreign ministry had taken and really put it to use and said, you know, this is going to become our logic in a way for organizing our diplomatic structure. So I went to visit this country's federal executive officials. And one of the sort of senior researchers, not just figuratively, literally dumped the And she said, you know, all the major management consultancies have offered us these studies of what we should do. And guess what? They're all pretty much the same versions of each other. We're going to give these to you and you tell us, distilled into 10 pages, go disappear for a month. get us in 10 pages. What of this is actually useful to us? Because you, meaning me, understand us and these people don't. And so that, in a way, I sort of like leapfrogged in a way all these gazillion dollar management consultancies simply because this government knew that they could trust me because I'd spent time there out of my own interest. And obviously it captured a their worldview on their behalf through my work. And that was accidental. But it's a real world example because those of us who are entrepreneurs or in business, you need your in. And I didn't tell them what I wanted to do for them. They told me what they wanted me to do for them.
00:12:56
Speaker 5: You are listening to Thinking Capital from Bloomberg Media Studios and HSBC. In this episode, we're exploring social capital. How do you build a network in a new market? The first social breakthrough might come when somebody leads with open-ended curiosity, rather than an overt agenda.
00:13:15
Speaker 1: For Danny Young, his latest wellness brand, IM8, began somewhere far less formal. A dinner invitation, a mutual friend, and one of the biggest football stars on the planet, David Beckham.
00:13:30
Speaker 7: I was thinking, hey, there's no downside meeting with David, right? It was a great opportunity. So when we got started talking, I think he was very intrigued about my consumer background, a couple of my life sciences background. And again, I wasn't trying to pitch him anything. It was just individuals trying to talk. He was sharing with me how in the category of supplements and that it was very difficult or overwhelming to maintain it as a routine, especially when they're traveling on a weekly basis. And then so as an entrepreneur, I was thinking, hey, how do we Solve this problem. And then this is where we came up with iMeet together. It wasn't like I didn't have iMeet when I met him. So I was coming with this concept together. Dave has never put his name as a co-founder to this category. That meant a lot if he was able to do that.
00:14:20
Speaker 5: Serendipity got Danny to dinner, but it did not get him the partnership.
00:14:26
Speaker 7: It wasn't like immediate, right? Because again, David, he gets pitched so often and he has a big team that just protects his interest, which he should. To David, he really wanted to make sure if he was going to put his name as a co-founder, this product needed to literally be the best one in the market. Otherwise, there's no reason why he would want to partner with me, right? So if this was 10 years ago, there's no way David would have worked with me. Because I didn't have that credibility, I didn't have the track record. That's very important that you don't want to just work with some random person, correct? You want to be able to work with someone that has been able to build something before. Because a lot of people can talk, but very few can actually execute. And so I believe I've been able to show that I've been able to execute in each one of my prior business ventures.
00:15:16
Speaker 5: By now, we've heard how trust begins. The next question is what happens when you try to use it?
00:15:22
Speaker 1: For Jasmine Algamel, the test is whether the network can actually be activated and how to create value on both sides.
00:15:31
Speaker 2: Any one of us probably knows hundreds of people, people we've worked with, people we've traveled with. But I think the ability to turn connections into an actionable network, you know, a network that can be activated. One thing that's important, I think, when it comes to activating your network is, when you have used that network before, did you use it to positive effect, not only for you, but for the people you were connecting? Because that's what strengthens your network and keeps them coming back and keeps them picking up the phone when you make that call.
00:16:09
Speaker 7: I think a lot of times, you know, especially business, et cetera, you know, let's say if you meet people, it's like, they're always, oh, you know what, if I refer you to you this, you know, can I get a commission or whatever, right? So I think the people that, are always delivering. I mean, they don't really think short and decided. Again, you can tell very easily if someone's just trying to be very transactional and trying to build a long-term relationship.
00:16:30
Speaker 2: We call them like the coffee people. It's people who want to grab a coffee with you only when you have a job that they think is useful for them. When you don't have that job anymore, that person will never pick up the phone. Oh my gosh, it's terrible. Don't ever do that. Ever.
00:16:46
Speaker 7: Especially now with Instagram, AI, right? I think the reality is people connections, live events are becoming much more impactful, much more meaningful. That can never be beaten by AI or replaced. The connection of meeting face-to-face, having a meal together, having a drink together.
00:17:07
Speaker 4: It's a really interesting question at this moment in time when trust is questioned, when technology is taking over, and you're not sure if you're speaking to an agent or an individual often, but HSBC is a massive institution, 160-year history, fantastic brand. But it doesn't work unless the people inside the business are trusted. So you can have a terrific external brand, but it only takes one bad apple to bring something down. So the power of an individual within these big organizations is so strong. It is that human capital that's what makes the place tick. You can't earn trust in a day. You can't earn trust in a week. It takes years, but it can take a hot second to lose it.
00:17:52
Speaker 2: Sometimes you will not know when that trust has been lost if you're not looking out for the signs. The meetings are still happening. You have the person's number on WhatsApp. They're still picking up the phone. And yet, something has changed because the trust has been lost. Sometimes I didn't spend enough time protecting relationships that I had cultivated when I was living in one country and then moved to another. Sometimes you get lax and someone sends you a message and you're like, I'll answer it later. And then it's been six months and you can't really answer it anymore.
00:18:29
Speaker 5: Enduring relationships are built on open lines of communication. That also means getting into the habit of responding, even when the answer is sometimes no.
00:18:41
Speaker 6: Tell the truth. Have communication. Be present. Don't try to solve things that you cannot solve. I cannot do everything. There are things I have to say no, but at least I answered them. The priority is to get to know the people around you because that's the seed that will let you grow your network. Be humble. Try to understand. Try to learn. And try to become part of that environment. You have to work at it every day. If you take time to build those relationships and not be in this bubble, you're going to do extremely well.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: And don't assume every valuable relationship needs an immediate outcome. One of Danny's most pivotal partners, the molecular biologist Dennis Lo, initially turned Danny down.
00:19:28
Speaker 7: Yeah, he rightfully rejected me at the time because I didn't have a background in DNA testing or genetic testing. But we kept in touch those 10 years and eventually at the right time. the right moment, we were able to then partner together and work together.
00:19:41
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the paradox of social capital. The relationships with the most future value are often the ones we can't quite put a finger on.
00:19:50
Speaker 2: Today.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: That's because real human connections and real social capital take time.
00:19:56
Speaker 5: So the next time you're heading to a new market, what can you take from our international panel?
00:20:01
Speaker 1: First, understand the market before trying to unlock its opportunities. Look beyond the obvious and start making those groundwork connections.
00:20:10
Speaker 5: Then let relationships compound rather than look for an immediate return. Because what you're building isn't just a network or a database of convenient contacts. It's the confidence people are willing to place in you. If you keep showing up, keep delivering, and keep your word, credibility can become trust. And trust, opportunity.
00:20:31
Speaker 1: Our thanks once again to our international super connectors, Danielle Johnson, Danny Young, Jorge Arce, Jasmine Elgamel, and Parag Khanna.
00:20:42
Speaker 5: Thinking Capital is a partnership between HSBC and Bloomberg Media Studios. Please do look out for future editions of Thinking Capital across Bloomberg Video, Podcasts, Print, and online as we continue to decode modern capital.
00:20:57
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening.
