Host
00:00:06Welcome back to Just Breathe.
Host
00:00:08I am so happy you are here and really, really excited to bring you another great interview.
Host
00:00:16I know I always say that, but honestly, I feel so lucky that I get to interview so many really, really interesting human beings and I always get just excited to bring them to you.
Host
00:00:31So today's guest is going to talk about a topic that I know that we are all curious about and all have questions about and perhaps don't always know how to ask these questions or who to ask these questions of.
Host
00:00:45So I am thrilled, thrilled, thrilled to bring you Court Vox, who provides personal guidance and expertise in the unique and often ignored areas of sexual he is a trained sex and intimacy consultant, surrogate partner, intern and sacred intimate founder of his practice, the Body Vox.
Host
00:01:11He brings professional opportunities for his clients to learn about and embrace their bodies and those of others.
Host
00:01:19Sex, the thing that the world is now acknowledging as so important for our general wellness, our mental health, and indeed our lives in general, is on the agenda.
Host
00:01:32While much progress has been made, it is still too often a taboo subject.
Host
00:01:38Court serves as the counselor of our times, breaking down the walls of shame and anxiety around intimacy and sex.
Host
00:01:48Traditional forms of therapy are done through talk.
Host
00:01:51The work of a somatic sex educator is to further this work via touch and body based experiences and comfortable judgment free and safe environments.
Host
00:02:03Body acceptance, exploration of sensation and desires and learning how to ask for you want or what you want.
Host
00:02:11Boundary setting and intimacy work are some of the many reasons clients seek this form of therapy.
Host
00:02:19Fox is a sex educator experienced working with clients of all sexualities and genders.
Host
00:02:26He continues to collaborate with fellow sex educator Pamela Madsen for workshops around the country and without further ado, I am absolutely delighted to bring you Court Fox.
Heather Hester
00:02:52Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting your LGBTQ the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.
Heather Hester
00:03:05My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.
Heather Hester
00:03:09I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.
Heather Hester
00:03:19Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.
Heather Hester
00:03:36Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.
Co-Host
00:03:54Welcome back to Just Breathe.
Co-Host
00:03:56I am so happy you all are here with us today.
Co-Host
00:04:00I am really excited to welcome Court Vox here today with us on the show this is a conversation I've been really excited to have and I've been looking forward to this interview and I think all of you are really going to enjoy this.
Co-Host
00:04:16So buckle your seatbelts, get a piece of paper, start taking notes because there's good stuff.
Co-Host
00:04:21So I'm just going to start right out of the box.
Co-Host
00:04:24Why sex?
Co-Host
00:04:26Why did you choose this as your topic and what made you want to hone in on this?
Court Vox
00:04:35Well, I didn't choose sex as my topic.
Court Vox
00:04:37I chose sex and intimacy as my career path.
Court Vox
00:04:40So why did I choose this?
Court Vox
00:04:43You know, I ask myself that question sometimes because it's not a, it's not a, it's not an easy business to navigate.
Court Vox
00:04:51I joke sometimes, like, why didn't I choose to be a breathwork specialist or, or a yoga practitioner?
Court Vox
00:04:58I could have walked in the world so much easier.
Court Vox
00:05:01There's still so much shame and stigma around, around sex.
Court Vox
00:05:05And it comes out in kind of divisive ways.
Court Vox
00:05:09In running my business, more of the things that are in the back end of how I'm treated by institutions of banking and things like that, the social media, marketing, advertising, those are all things that are very challenging for me to do so.
Court Vox
00:05:26But that is probably for another podcast.
Co-Host
00:05:31Yes, those are the things you don't think about, right?
Court Vox
00:05:34Yeah.
Court Vox
00:05:35But why did, why did I choose this field?
Court Vox
00:05:37I, I really feel like I was called to this field.
Court Vox
00:05:41It wasn't something that I, I chose quickly.
Court Vox
00:05:45I probably spent the majority of my 30s really kind of easing into this.
Court Vox
00:05:52I have always been very sexual and very erotic.
Court Vox
00:05:55I remember my first kind of sexual experience at the age of four with my friend who was also four.
Court Vox
00:06:03And I remember being very active sexually in terms of like self pleasuring.
Court Vox
00:06:09And my, my mother was very open about self pleasuring.
Court Vox
00:06:13She just asked that we go to our room and do it in a private space.
Court Vox
00:06:18But it was never shamed, it was never talked about in a way that was like, don't do that.
Court Vox
00:06:22There was always books in my house around sex and, you know, where babies come from and how it happens.
Court Vox
00:06:29And it was always a discussion.
Court Vox
00:06:32And I think the way that I view my body and my sexuality is in great, you know, I owe great respect to my mother for that.
Court Vox
00:06:43But to kind of move on.
Court Vox
00:06:46You know, I came out when I was 19, when I came to LA, I went to UCLA and you know, my 20s, I feel like I was in a relationship for the majority of the time, time.
Court Vox
00:06:59And I didn't really get to explore my sexuality as much as I did in my 30s and in my 30s, you know, it was sort of this progression into kind of an exploration of self and then kind of noticing that I had a capacity to meet a lot of different people and a lot of different body types and enjoy that and also help people kind of move past some of the things that they were kind of shameful about or didn't want to talk about, including like desires and even just being with somebody.
Court Vox
00:07:38Right.
Court Vox
00:07:39So I feel like I was called to it.
Court Vox
00:07:41I.
Court Vox
00:07:42I studied shibari rope bondage.
Court Vox
00:07:45I started studying shabari rope on it.
Court Vox
00:07:47I'm still a student that.
Court Vox
00:07:49And I was in like a group class and I needed a practice partner.
Court Vox
00:07:53And one of the women in the class said, I will be your.
Court Vox
00:07:58Your practice body.
Court Vox
00:08:00And she just happened to be a psychotherapist that dealt with the nervous system.
Court Vox
00:08:05And I said, you know, I really would like to get out of the career that I'm in now, which was corporate.
Court Vox
00:08:12And she said, what do you want to do?
Court Vox
00:08:14And I said, I think I want to be a sex therapist, but not one that talks to people.
Court Vox
00:08:18One that like helps people figure things out through their body and body based exercises and experiences.
Court Vox
00:08:26And I said, I don't think it exists.
Court Vox
00:08:29And she said, have you heard of sexological bodywork?
Court Vox
00:08:31And so that kind of sent me on a path where I studied for two, two and a half years.
Court Vox
00:08:38I also became a surrogate partner during that time and studied other things.
Court Vox
00:08:44And then, you know, as soon as I kind of graduated, I left corporate and then I joined a company called Back to the Body, which runs sensual retreats for women around the world.
Court Vox
00:08:56And I've kind of never stopped.
Court Vox
00:08:59So that's, that's sort of how I came.
Court Vox
00:09:01That's the long story.
Co-Host
00:09:02That's good.
Co-Host
00:09:03No, I think it's hard to be.
Co-Host
00:09:05Hard to tell that in a short way.
Co-Host
00:09:07I think that was.
Co-Host
00:09:08It's something that, you know, people want to know and I think people are afraid to ask.
Co-Host
00:09:14Right to your point.
Co-Host
00:09:17Any talking about sex can be.
Co-Host
00:09:20A lot of people are very embarrassed to do so and ask the questions they really want to ask.
Co-Host
00:09:26So that's why I was like, this is.
Co-Host
00:09:30I want that to be this space today.
Co-Host
00:09:32What are the questions that people would want to ask you but might be afraid to ask you or be embarrassed to know you talk about?
Co-Host
00:09:44You use the word somatic.
Co-Host
00:09:46And I would love if you could define that and talk about what that means, because I think that's just a word that we're not very familiar with and we don't use on a daily basis?
Court Vox
00:09:58Yeah, thank you for asking.
Court Vox
00:10:00Somatic means of the body so unlike a traditional coach or therapist that just works with talking talk therapy, for the most part, my work really facilitates learning through body based exercises, experiential learning and touch.
Court Vox
00:10:18You know, so there's a couple different kind of veins of somatics, but it's getting back to our bodies, getting back to noticing.
Court Vox
00:10:28Noticing the wisdom that we carry within ourselves and our culture and our society has pushed us so far from that knowing that it's almost like we have to relearn, relearn the wisdom of our own bodies and listen.
Court Vox
00:10:47And so my work is really centered around that as much as it is connecting with sexuality and eros.
Co-Host
00:10:55And you do this in typically a group setting or is this something that you do kind of one on one or couple on one?
Co-Host
00:11:05How is this work done?
Co-Host
00:11:07What is.
Co-Host
00:11:08How would one engage with you in this process?
Court Vox
00:11:14Yeah, I work with all bodies and teachings.
Court Vox
00:11:18I run group workshops and retreats for queer men.
Court Vox
00:11:22And like I said, I work for a company called Back to the Body that runs retreat for predominantly CIS het women.
Court Vox
00:11:31And I also work with couples, queer couples and straight couples.
Court Vox
00:11:35I work with women, but I work with women differently than I work with men privately.
Court Vox
00:11:41I also do private immersion with clients, mostly with queer men.
Court Vox
00:11:46When I work with straight women, I work with a female practitioner or therapist as a third party to help guide and to help triage with the client.
Court Vox
00:11:58And we work as a team in that way.
Co-Host
00:12:01Okay, that's really cool.
Co-Host
00:12:05I'm just kind of going out of order of how.
Co-Host
00:12:08But I'm so intrigued by this because I'll get around to the other things.
Co-Host
00:12:13But this is so fascinating to me and kind of on the same subject, like most of I just thinking about, you know, a lot of my friends, a lot of, you know, people, women especially my age, were not.
Co-Host
00:12:26We didn't ever talk about this growing up.
Co-Host
00:12:28Right.
Co-Host
00:12:28Like, we weren't raised typically in homes where sex was ever talked about.
Co-Host
00:12:33And if it was, it was very much in a shameful way.
Co-Host
00:12:37Like that's shameful or that's not to be discussed or just, I don't know, I'm just wondering your words of wisdom for, you know, what do you kind of initially say to women as they come from this type of background, really to help them kind of get out of it?
Co-Host
00:12:58Because a lot of that's like headspace, right?
Co-Host
00:13:00So to get out of their heads and move into kind of relearning their body.
Court Vox
00:13:06So I'm Going to name that.
Court Vox
00:13:08When I speak around women's sexuality and health and wellness, I.
Court Vox
00:13:14I feel a level of cringiness in myself.
Court Vox
00:13:17And I want to name that because I certainly don't want to tell women as a masculine identifying body, I don't want to tell women how to be.
Court Vox
00:13:28So I just want to name that.
Court Vox
00:13:30That women's bodies are your bodies.
Court Vox
00:13:33Right?
Court Vox
00:13:34And I think that's.
Court Vox
00:13:34That's the most important thing to identify is bodily autonomy.
Court Vox
00:13:40And so much of the experience of women is that their bodies are not their own and that they are witnessed and seen through the lens of the masculine, through the lens of men.
Court Vox
00:13:54And how women are supposed to present, how they're supposed to behave is for the masculine, is for men, right?
Court Vox
00:14:04And so when you can sort of untangle that, the question becomes, who am I and how do I connect to my body for my pleasure, for myself, how do I want to present for me that feels erotic and sexy and turn on for me, not for the lens in which I'm being seen.
Court Vox
00:14:27And I think that's something that straight women have in common with queer men, is the difference with queer and gay men is that gay men are the lens and we are the seen through the lens.
Court Vox
00:14:43Does that make sense?
Co-Host
00:14:45Ah, yes, it does.
Court Vox
00:14:47Which is another sort of layer.
Court Vox
00:14:50But it's sort of like we preen and groom and present and walk and talk and exercise and eat and do all these things so that we can sort of be accepted and fit into a cultural narrative of acceptance from the masculine.
Co-Host
00:15:12Right?
Co-Host
00:15:12And specifically, yes, which is so interesting because I'm really seeing that now with my son, as he's 22, almost 23, and just over the past few years, how that's, you know, kind of shifted and, and really kind of tapping into that.
Co-Host
00:15:30So it's interesting to me, and I think, okay, you know, the quiet voice says, okay, is there something I could be wisdom that I could be sharing with him to perhaps, you know, just kind of spark another thought?
Co-Host
00:15:44Like, here's another way of thinking of this, right?
Co-Host
00:15:46Because as you and I know, you don't ever tell your kids anything because they will do the opposite, right?
Court Vox
00:15:55You know, that's always kind.
Court Vox
00:15:56That has always been my approach with my son, who's now 19, around discussion around drugs and discussion around sex, is that I've always presented it as choices, right?
Court Vox
00:16:08So, you know, these are the choices that are going to come your way.
Court Vox
00:16:12And in choosing to have sex, you're also choosing to open your body and open your spirit to someone.
Court Vox
00:16:20And I Guess you know, my invitation to him was always to look inside yourself and notice if you're ready for that, are you emotionally ready for this connection to happen?
Court Vox
00:16:34And if the answer is no, maybe, you know, it's not the time.
Court Vox
00:16:38And I think, you know, from what I know, he did wait until he felt he was ready and he was with a girlfriend that he'd been with for a year.
Court Vox
00:16:47And it was a beautiful experience, right?
Court Vox
00:16:50Same thing around drugs of, look, you can choose to do all these drugs, and in choosing that, you.
Court Vox
00:16:57You may also be choosing a life of addiction.
Court Vox
00:17:00You may be choosing a life of poor health, right?
Court Vox
00:17:05These are all the things that kind of come with that.
Court Vox
00:17:07It's not speaking, you know, it's just a language nuance of, you know, speaking about things as choices rather than repercussions.
Court Vox
00:17:17Because as you said, you tell a child not to do something and they want to do it, right?
Court Vox
00:17:22And so as parents, if we can simply present the information of this is a choice.
Court Vox
00:17:30And with those choices, you are also choosing this.
Court Vox
00:17:35And same thing with sex, of, you know, if you are choosing to have sex as a young person, you are choosing this emotional experience, this physical experience.
Court Vox
00:17:47And also, you know, you are choosing, you know, if you're choosing not to use a condom, you are choosing to open yourself up to pregnancy at a young age.
Court Vox
00:17:56Is that something that you want to choose?
Court Vox
00:17:58Right.
Court Vox
00:17:59Or do you want to wear a condom?
Court Vox
00:18:01Right.
Court Vox
00:18:03And Also all the STDs and STIs that come with that, too.
Court Vox
00:18:07Those are like.
Court Vox
00:18:09Those are important conversations.
Co-Host
00:18:11Well, they are.
Co-Host
00:18:12They are.
Co-Host
00:18:13And I think that that's something.
Co-Host
00:18:14I mean, you and I kind of twofold here.
Co-Host
00:18:16You and I touched on this before we started recording.
Co-Host
00:18:18But the things that, you know, we wish we would have known or wish we would have, you know, back when we started parenting, right?
Co-Host
00:18:25So that we perhaps could have started, you know, I know for myself specifically, started these conversations so much earlier in a way that they were conversations and not a.
Co-Host
00:18:36Well, just don't do that because it's scary or don't do that because you could die, right?
Co-Host
00:18:41Because that's so not effective at all.
Co-Host
00:18:45And all it does is close them down and freak you out.
Co-Host
00:18:48So I think that, you know, this is such a helpful conversation in being able to really just open up and just.
Co-Host
00:18:58Even if it is uncomfortable.
Co-Host
00:18:59Uncomfortable for you to know, these kind of conversations are so much easier because we all know what the choices are, right?
Co-Host
00:19:08So we can have this conversation.
Co-Host
00:19:10And here are all of your choices.
Co-Host
00:19:13Do you have questions about Any of them.
Co-Host
00:19:15Do you want to know more information about any of them?
Co-Host
00:19:18Right.
Co-Host
00:19:18And I think kind of to part two of this, which is, you know, you and I were laughing.
Co-Host
00:19:24So you are a queer man parenting a heterosexual boy.
Co-Host
00:19:29Right.
Co-Host
00:19:29And I'm mom parenting gay kids.
Co-Host
00:19:33So how do we do this?
Co-Host
00:19:36Right.
Co-Host
00:19:36And how.
Co-Host
00:19:36When we don't really know what we're talking about specifically.
Co-Host
00:19:40And so having, as we have these discussions around choices, and we really want to offer this, like, here's the information you specifically need to know that's going to be helpful for you.
Co-Host
00:19:51Like, had I known six years ago how to help Connor, like, navigate being a gay, you know, at that point, a gay young man and moving into, you know, through college and into young adulthood, Holy cow, would that have been like a million times better?
Co-Host
00:20:13But I didn't know what I didn't know, and I didn't know how to find it.
Co-Host
00:20:18Right.
Co-Host
00:20:18So what kind of wisdom do you have to share around that?
Co-Host
00:20:21Because I imagine it's a lot.
Court Vox
00:20:25Around finding it or how to forgive yourself.
Co-Host
00:20:32That might be a whole nother conversation.
Co-Host
00:20:34I'm getting that.
Co-Host
00:20:36But, yeah, finding it.
Co-Host
00:20:38Yeah.
Court Vox
00:20:39So interestingly enough, my son's also named Connor.
Co-Host
00:20:42Greatest name.
Court Vox
00:20:44Yeah.
Court Vox
00:20:44Good name.
Court Vox
00:20:45You know, before I go into that, I want to say, you know, having the discussion around sex, we often go to.
Court Vox
00:20:52And even I just did it, we go to this place of talking about all the risks involved.
Court Vox
00:20:58And what we don't talk about is all the, like, great things.
Court Vox
00:21:03Right.
Court Vox
00:21:03Of how powerful pleasure can be in mood stabilization and connecting with friends and connecting with lovers, and it's just not the person that you've had sex with.
Court Vox
00:21:17Like, you're running all these endorphins and dopamine signals that come from these pleasure signals inside us.
Court Vox
00:21:25These are ours.
Court Vox
00:21:26Right.
Court Vox
00:21:26And that translates into everything and every interaction we have.
Court Vox
00:21:30And so noticing that those sexual and erotic connections that we have really are beautiful.
Court Vox
00:21:38And if we can have that conversation, that pleasure is healing, pleasure is valuable.
Court Vox
00:21:46That's counterculture.
Court Vox
00:21:48That's a counterculture conversation.
Court Vox
00:21:51And to start having that early on, I think is really important.
Co-Host
00:21:56Absolutely.
Co-Host
00:21:58I mean, just.
Co-Host
00:21:59Yeah, go ahead.
Court Vox
00:22:01The thing I also want to talk about again is, you know, with children is bodily autonomy.
Court Vox
00:22:07And, you know, I remember as a child, my mother would sort of pass me off to relatives or friends to give them hugs and kisses, and it was sort of this, like, you know, she just to hear her talk about it, she just loved me so much that she wanted to other people to love me as much as she did.
Court Vox
00:22:26And to share that.
Court Vox
00:22:27Right.
Court Vox
00:22:28And I look back on that and I also remember times when I didn't want to do that.
Court Vox
00:22:34And the conversation was not, it's okay, you don't have to.
Court Vox
00:22:37It was, come on, it's Uncle Joe or it's Uncle Mary or, you know, whatever it is, you know, they're happy to see you.
Court Vox
00:22:44Give them a hug, give him a kiss.
Court Vox
00:22:45And like, that actually sends the signal to your child that they're not in control of their body.
Court Vox
00:22:53And so to say, you know, it's totally fine if you don't want to be affectionate these people, thank you for trusting yourself.
Court Vox
00:23:02That is a different conversation.
Court Vox
00:23:04And it's the conversation that I think really needs to be fostered with our children.
Court Vox
00:23:10Now also, just talking about bodies of.
Court Vox
00:23:16As your children's bodies change, you know, commenting on how they're gaining weight or losing weight or they're too thin or they're too big or they're eating too much or they're not eating enough.
Court Vox
00:23:26And like, it's just a lot, right?
Court Vox
00:23:29It's a lot to hear from people at school.
Court Vox
00:23:32It's a lot to hear from teachers and to hear from media and then to also be hearing it from your parents.
Court Vox
00:23:39It's just something that we have to stop doing of it is the neg, the kind of inconspicuous body talk and even, you know, and this is something I look back on, you know, as a, as a gay man of dealing with my own kind of body dysmorphia issues and doing it in front of my son, of, oh my gosh, I need to go back to the gym.
Court Vox
00:24:06I need to lose five pounds, I need to run.
Court Vox
00:24:09Ugh, I feel so fat.
Court Vox
00:24:10All these things, they're just, they just don't send the best messages of body acceptance and body sort of friendliness with your body.
Co-Host
00:24:21Yes.
Co-Host
00:24:23It's so true.
Co-Host
00:25:18And it's such something that's so ingrained in us that we don't realize what we're doing.
Co-Host
00:25:24And it's such a cycle breaker moment to be able to be aware of that and to be aware of your wording.
Co-Host
00:25:31It's something that we've been doing in our house.
Co-Host
00:25:33I love that you brought that up because it, you know, something that all of my kids are very sensitive and aware of.
Co-Host
00:25:42And so we've had many conversations around this.
Co-Host
00:25:45And I am 100% guilty of saying, oh my gosh, I don't like the way I look or I feel overweight or, you know, all the things you kind of just Named I need to get back to the gym.
Co-Host
00:25:56I, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Co-Host
00:25:58Right.
Co-Host
00:25:59And learning to shift that and say, I want to.
Co-Host
00:26:04I want to feel healthier.
Co-Host
00:26:05So I personally am going to shift the way I'm eating or I'm going to do this because this makes me feel better.
Co-Host
00:26:13You know, what, what are the things that you like?
Co-Host
00:26:17And I have, you know, these big conversations around, like, you know, what, what they like, like, what makes them feel good.
Co-Host
00:26:24And.
Co-Host
00:26:25But it's definitely a rerouting of the narrative.
Co-Host
00:26:29Right?
Co-Host
00:26:29Right.
Co-Host
00:26:29Because we all.
Co-Host
00:26:33That's kind of, again, like, that was very, I think, generational and something.
Co-Host
00:26:38A generational cycle that we have to break so that our kids can go forward with a much healthier view of eating, working out, and loving, which all will come to loving their bodies.
Court Vox
00:26:55You know, the word integration is often talked about.
Court Vox
00:26:58You know, it's like, we do this work and we integrate.
Court Vox
00:27:00Like, what does integration mean?
Court Vox
00:27:01And integration is sort of like when we have this felt sense of something in our body and then we have also language to talk about it and language to speak about it.
Court Vox
00:27:13And maybe a different way that sort of aligns with this rerouting of our nervous system and rerouting of narratives that are really deeply part of our lineage and our ancestors, of our mothers and our fathers and our grandparents.
Court Vox
00:27:35These messages that have been cultivated, they've been being cultivated for many, many years.
Court Vox
00:27:41And so to change them involves an integration of the learning in a way that is a somatic and also from like a language perspective and also sharing with others.
Court Vox
00:27:54Like, how do we share this information with each other?
Court Vox
00:27:58Of, hey, like, I hear you speaking to yourself in such a.
Court Vox
00:28:03An interesting way.
Court Vox
00:28:04Are you aware.
Court Vox
00:28:05Are you aware of how you're speaking to yourself?
Court Vox
00:28:08It's affecting me too, you know, and again, that's another language of.
Court Vox
00:28:14Of stop talking to yourself so negatively as opposed to, hey, are you aware of how you're speaking about your body right now?
Court Vox
00:28:24No, how am I speaking about my body?
Court Vox
00:28:27Well, you just said that you're fat and you need to, like, run for 12 miles.
Co-Host
00:28:32Oh, God.
Court Vox
00:28:33Then you're like, oh, God, Wow.
Court Vox
00:28:35Did I say that?
Court Vox
00:28:37Well, that's not really kind, is it?
Court Vox
00:28:39You know, it's allowing people to come to their own conclusion rather than shaming them for the shameful feeling they're already having.
Co-Host
00:28:47Right.
Co-Host
00:28:47Like piling on.
Co-Host
00:28:49Oh, my God.
Court Vox
00:28:49Yeah.
Co-Host
00:28:50Well, it's such a great pattern interrupt.
Co-Host
00:28:52I mean, to be able to, like, moment and like, stop it.
Co-Host
00:28:55Like, stop the thought and become aware of it and Think, okay, You know, help not only yourself, but someone else.
Co-Host
00:29:03Think, okay, how could, how can I look at this differently?
Co-Host
00:29:06How can I approach this differently so that, you know, I'm taking care of me and just taking care of me, not in a better way, just doing it.
Co-Host
00:29:18Right.
Co-Host
00:29:19I think that's such a big thing.
Court Vox
00:29:23Yeah, that's.
Court Vox
00:29:23I mean, that was something we kind of talked about before we started is this idea that, you know, as parents we tend to put so much focus outward, focus on our children and their success and their happiness and their joy and there's, you know, how they're behaving and things that we oftentimes we lose sight of the work that we need to do ourselves.
Court Vox
00:29:46And just in sort of the reframe and the reorientation of our own connection to our bodies and our own sexuality and our own eroticism and our own life force energy.
Court Vox
00:29:59By way of embodying those things, we are teaching our children, right?
Court Vox
00:30:05Not by telling them, but by doing as.
Court Vox
00:30:08By setting as an example.
Court Vox
00:30:10So self care and self advancement and self growth is a, is a really big part of being a parent.
Co-Host
00:30:20It is, I think it shifts the relationship So.
Co-Host
00:30:27I mean, 180 degrees.
Co-Host
00:30:29Mm, definitely with, I mean, with yourself 100%, but with your child, because they, even if you aren't saying anything out loud, they see the shifting, right.
Co-Host
00:30:44They're.
Co-Host
00:30:44They're constantly taking note.
Co-Host
00:30:47Right.
Co-Host
00:30:47Of your actions, of your behaviors, of your words.
Co-Host
00:30:51So it is powerful.
Co-Host
00:30:52It's really powerful.
Co-Host
00:30:56I'm in the.
Co-Host
00:30:57Just like this made this pop into my head.
Co-Host
00:30:59And when we were talking about this earlier too, I'm in the middle of writing a book and I'm working with my editor right now.
Co-Host
00:31:07And a lot of this book is the personal work that as a parent you need to do in order to be the best support for your child, in order to support them in their coming out process and as they navigate.
Co-Host
00:31:21And I initially was getting a lot of pushback.
Co-Host
00:31:24You know, people just want to know what to do for their kids.
Co-Host
00:31:26They don't want to know this other stuff.
Co-Host
00:31:28And I was like, well, unfortunately, I mean, yes, I get that, but this other stuff has to be done, right?
Co-Host
00:31:34So I'm not, I'm not wavering on this being in there because this is important.
Co-Host
00:31:40And this is such an important.
Co-Host
00:31:42This was such an important, like, incredibly valuable lesson that I learned that I didn't know that I was allowed to do.
Co-Host
00:31:50Like, that was mind blowing to me that I was allowed to take care of myself.
Co-Host
00:31:55I can't be the only One that thinks that.
Co-Host
00:31:58Right?
Co-Host
00:32:00Yeah.
Court Vox
00:32:00And in doing that, you know, you also give permission to other people to do the same.
Court Vox
00:32:06Right.
Court Vox
00:32:07As a parent and a mother and as a father, you know, to, to really insist on your own advancement and your own growth and able to share that with other people.
Court Vox
00:32:19It's like, huh, I get.
Court Vox
00:32:22I could, I could be doing the same thing.
Court Vox
00:32:24That's available for me too, you know, if you're open to it.
Court Vox
00:32:27I'd love to talk about this article that's written by a colleague of mine named Kai Chang Tom around gender.
Co-Host
00:32:35Yes, I would love that.
Co-Host
00:32:36Yes, please.
Court Vox
00:32:39So just in a nutshell, the article really is about evolution.
Court Vox
00:32:43And she talks about how gender binary, how we think about it is really about.
Court Vox
00:32:52It's much easier for us to think masculine, feminine.
Court Vox
00:32:56And if a child is going from being born in a masculine body to being transitioning into a feminine, more feminine body, easier for us to understand, wrap our heads around.
Court Vox
00:33:09But when the sort of trajectory of this human is evolutionary, we have a much harder time dealing with that because it's not black or white.
Court Vox
00:33:22And what they're talking about is sort of that gender can be.
Court Vox
00:33:28And the invitation to look at gender as an evolution and that, you know, even if I'm looking at myself and who I am of looking about who I was in my teens and my twenties, really identifying more in my feminine, my feminine energy, and then, you know, in my 30s, really stepping more into what I felt as a more masculine energy and I'm still sort of in there and then also now kind of wanting to reconnect with feminine energy.
Court Vox
00:33:55And so this noticing this evolution of gender in myself and also how that pertains to my sexuality and that your sexuality is evolutionary just like your body is evolutionary, we're all going to continue to change.
Court Vox
00:34:12That is the one fact I can name will continue to change.
Court Vox
00:34:17And if we can create space for our evolution, if we can create space for the possibility that your child's gender will shift and evolve, it alleviates so much pressure on everyone's part of, you know, this discussion.
Court Vox
00:34:35If my child does transition or my child does name themselves as non binary in this moment, that maybe later they could change their mind.
Court Vox
00:34:47And that's actually okay.
Court Vox
00:34:49It's okay.
Court Vox
00:34:51Because you know what, it's their body.
Co-Host
00:34:54Exactly right.
Co-Host
00:34:56I mean, and how is that affecting anybody else, really?
Court Vox
00:35:04Yeah, it's.
Court Vox
00:35:05It's really how it affects other people is that it leaves people in their own discomfort and really that's their work, not the other person's.
Co-Host
00:35:15Correct.
Co-Host
00:35:16Correct.
Court Vox
00:35:17So you know, I just.
Court Vox
00:35:19Yeah, go ahead.
Co-Host
00:35:20No, no, no.
Co-Host
00:35:21I was just thinking that I, I love that.
Co-Host
00:35:24I would love to actually read this article, but I, I love that she was talking about the feminine and masculine energy, which I don't think a lot of people realize that we all have both.
Co-Host
00:35:37Right.
Co-Host
00:35:38And that's.
Co-Host
00:35:39And so to what degree that you are kind of.
Co-Host
00:35:42I don't feel.
Co-Host
00:35:43I always kind of picture it like I, you know, you're kind of.
Co-Host
00:35:46You tap into both of them.
Co-Host
00:35:49I, you know, and we're all.
Co-Host
00:35:51It's on a spectrum.
Co-Host
00:35:52There's the word I was looking for.
Co-Host
00:35:54And I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit.
Court Vox
00:35:57Yeah.
Court Vox
00:35:58I mean, what she actually is proposing is slightly different, which is that what, what we're able to see and feel as a culture is the binary masculine, feminine.
Court Vox
00:36:10And we all have both.
Court Vox
00:36:11But really what gender has the possibility of being is more like galaxy or like all the colors in the coloring box.
Court Vox
00:36:20Right.
Court Vox
00:36:20And when you ask somebody who's sort of like exploring non binary ness, like how it feels in their body, it's sort of like it's not one or the other.
Court Vox
00:36:30Which is again much easier for us to understand because we've been so convinced, conditioned in binary, black, white, negative, positive.
Court Vox
00:36:39Right.
Court Vox
00:36:40Masculine, feminine, that it's harder for us to grasp that, oh, my gender expression or my sexual expression looks like all the colors in the coloring box, not just the two at the opposite poles.
Co-Host
00:36:57I love that.
Co-Host
00:36:59That's such a great visual because people can wrap their heads around that.
Court Vox
00:37:04Yeah.
Court Vox
00:37:05And it's, you know, you kind of, you can understand like how for people who are not kind of inhabiting that space, how that feel feels maybe overwhelming and confusing, but if we're able to reframe it in more of a positive outlook of looking at it, like possibility of this actually is not confusing.
Court Vox
00:37:28What this offers is so much range and so much possibility of who I, who I'm allowed to be and who I can be and how I present and how I move, how I speak, how I love it just creates more possibility.
Co-Host
00:37:47Well, it also encourages one to really be so aware and do that work.
Co-Host
00:37:58To continually be just very in touch and connected to who they are.
Co-Host
00:38:03Right.
Co-Host
00:38:03What.
Co-Host
00:38:04What does that mean to them?
Co-Host
00:38:06And so, and so, you know, kind of learning, relearning how to go internally to see who you are and not looking for that out here by checking a bunch of boxes.
Court Vox
00:38:23Yeah.
Court Vox
00:38:23And again, the sort of what's possible and I'll speak from an eye space and also what's Possible.
Court Vox
00:38:33What has been or become possible for so many of my clients in exploring their erotic potential and their erotic body and erotic desires is that, you know, what we're able to do when we are exploring in those spaces is really explore the depths of who we are as beings.
Court Vox
00:38:58Because what I've noticed is that when we're in psychotherapy, which I think is really valuable, we're up here, we're in our heads and when we're speaking from a heart place, we're speaking from our chest up.
Court Vox
00:39:14Right?
Court Vox
00:39:15You know, I've worked with dancers and yogis and I've worked with so many different types of people, but you would think these dancers and these yogis and these, you know, breath work practitioners, they're really connected to their sexuality, but they've really focused on a belly up approach, right?
Court Vox
00:39:35Where they're, they're not counting their genitals as part of their, their body and they're not speaking to them as if they're part of a, part of the plan or part of, part of the party.
Court Vox
00:39:48And so to start to include your genitals, to include your sex as part of the conversation is really important.
Court Vox
00:40:00And it's also daunting for some people, for many of us, because it just has not been right, has not been permissioned, has not been allowed.
Court Vox
00:40:10And there's so much wrapped up in that conversation.
Co-Host
00:40:15Yes.
Co-Host
00:40:18Oh my goodness, yes.
Court Vox
00:40:21Overwhelming you.
Co-Host
00:40:24I'm like 100 questions right now and I'm like, okay, I'll be quiet.
Co-Host
00:40:30That's the question, the best way to put it.
Co-Host
00:40:36I'm like soaking this all in.
Co-Host
00:40:38I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm actually having like epiphany moments and questions all at the same time.
Co-Host
00:40:45I'm just fascinated and I know that people listening are going to be fascinated on how, you know, how do we do this work as adults, as, you know, parents A and then B, kind of circling back to, you know, obviously the earlier we can start talking with our kids about sex and about just their bodies and their whole bodies and, you know, all of these things that we've talked about today, the better.
Co-Host
00:41:19But how do, how do we do this?
Co-Host
00:41:23How do we, how do they find you?
Court Vox
00:41:27How do people find me?
Court Vox
00:41:30Yes, how do they find you?
Court Vox
00:41:33Just reach and pull it down.
Court Vox
00:41:36No, you can find me on thebodyvox.com also courtvox on Instagram.
Court Vox
00:41:42The bodyvox on Instagram.
Co-Host
00:41:45Okay, well, I will be posting that in the show notes for sure.
Co-Host
00:41:50But let's say, you know, there's a Group of people that are like, yes, this is work I would like to do, I need to do.
Co-Host
00:42:01Is this something that women would come as just a single person or do they come as a couple?
Co-Host
00:42:10Or how does that work with your retreats?
Court Vox
00:42:14So the women's retreats that I work back to the body, they're, they're for individual women.
Court Vox
00:42:21And next year we have so many offerings.
Court Vox
00:42:25We have some programs that are sort of entry level and then we have programs that are a little more advanced.
Court Vox
00:42:31And so there's sort of something for everyone.
Court Vox
00:42:34And that's backtothebody.org?
Co-Host
00:42:36Okay.
Court Vox
00:42:38And then, you know, to work with me privately, I work for three days minimum in immersion.
Court Vox
00:42:45I work with men and women.
Court Vox
00:42:47And like I said, when I work with women, I work in a triad model.
Court Vox
00:42:51So with another female bodied practitioner or therapist to kind of triage with the client.
Co-Host
00:42:58Sure, sure.
Co-Host
00:43:00Oh, that's very cool.
Co-Host
00:43:01Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you so very much.
Co-Host
00:43:07Kind of my final question, and this is my big question that I ask everyone who comes on is, and you can kind of choose, it's one of two questions.
Co-Host
00:43:22What are your words of wisdom that you would share either with a kid coming out right now or a parent who has a child coming out right now?
Court Vox
00:43:35You know, I'm going to speak to the kid coming out.
Court Vox
00:43:38I think what I'm going to say might be counterintuitive to what you might think I would say, which is check in with your surroundings, check in with where you live, who you are living with, and understand before you come out whether it's safe enough.
Court Vox
00:44:01I think people's safety, children's safety is important.
Court Vox
00:44:08And there are organizations like the Trevor Project that have hotlines for you to call and that can be done on your own.
Court Vox
00:44:17You don't have to share that with anybody if you need support.
Court Vox
00:44:21But yeah, just noticing if you're in Florida, when you're in a really conservative school and you have conservative parents and you fear for your life and coming out, that's a tricky one.
Court Vox
00:44:30I'm not going to tell somebody to come out in a container that's not supportive or that is not safe.
Court Vox
00:44:42First and foremost, understand that you are safe and that you will be held.
Court Vox
00:44:47And then beyond that, if the answer is yes, I feel like I will be held safely in my body here to either do it how it feels right for you.
Court Vox
00:45:01I think we've come to this place in America where coming out is sort of, okay, everybody, let's sit down.
Court Vox
00:45:07Let's have this deep conversation And I'm going to tell you that I'm coming out, but to speak with some of my European friends and partners.
Court Vox
00:45:16They're coming out.
Court Vox
00:45:17Story was not.
Court Vox
00:45:18They didn't sit their parents down.
Court Vox
00:45:21They didn't do that.
Court Vox
00:45:22They said, I'm going out with my boyfriend.
Court Vox
00:45:27I'm meeting Joel again.
Court Vox
00:45:31I'm going to this queer party.
Court Vox
00:45:33It was more of like, I'm living my life this way.
Court Vox
00:45:37And so I wonder if there's sort of.
Court Vox
00:45:40Obviously, there's a cultural difference with the United States and some of the other countries like Sweden and Belgium and that are a little more advanced, in my opinion.
Co-Host
00:45:51Absolutely.
Court Vox
00:45:53And also, I don't know that it has to be so cut and dry always, but everybody has their own way.
Co-Host
00:45:59Of doing it, right?
Co-Host
00:46:01Well, I think that's.
Co-Host
00:46:02There's.
Co-Host
00:46:02There's no wrong way of doing.
Co-Host
00:46:05But to say, I love that you touched on the safety piece first, because that is.
Co-Host
00:46:10I could not agree with you more.
Co-Host
00:46:13And, you know, I think it's also, gosh, that is the goal, right?
Co-Host
00:46:20That someday in America, that is the way that it's no different.
Co-Host
00:46:25My boyfriend is coming over, My girlfriend's coming over, my girlfriend are coming over.
Co-Host
00:46:30I mean, you know that it is not a shocking moment or any of what's going on right now.
Co-Host
00:46:41So that is.
Co-Host
00:46:43That is the work.
Co-Host
00:46:44That is the work.
Co-Host
00:46:45So thank you so much for being here today.
Court Vox
00:46:48Yeah, thanks for having me.
Co-Host
00:46:50A fantastic conversation.
Co-Host
00:46:52Before we end, is there anything else that you'd like to share?
Court Vox
00:46:57I don't think so.
Court Vox
00:46:58I.
Court Vox
00:46:59I think I've.
Court Vox
00:46:59I've shared it all.
Co-Host
00:47:01I think you have.
Co-Host
00:47:02We didn't.
Co-Host
00:47:05We shared a lot.
Co-Host
00:47:06You shared a lot.
Co-Host
00:47:07Thank you.
Co-Host
00:47:08This was really fascinating and wonderful.
Co-Host
00:47:10So I appreciate you being here.
Court Vox
00:47:12Thanks for having me on.
Heather Hester
00:47:15Thanks so much for joining me today.
Heather Hester
00:47:18If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful.
Heather Hester
00:47:22For a rating or a review.
Heather Hester
00:47:25Click on the link in the show notes or go to my website, chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources, as well as to learn how you can work with me.
Heather Hester
00:47:37Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone.
Heather Hester
00:47:43And remember to just breathe until next.
Co-Host
00:47:55Sa.
