Annie Lalla | From Conflict to Collaboration: Transforming Relationship Dynamics

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One of the ways I teach my clients to do
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this is when they have criticism, so they have feedback
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or complaints, and every complaint is usually in the form
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of some kind of WTF stance, So you might not say,
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what the fuck, but you're like, ah, did you forget
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to get the almond milk? Were you late picking up
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the kids? It's got WTF infused into it. And so
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if you could take all your complaints translate them from
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WTF to what I call MLK. It stands for Martin
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Luther King. And if anyone ever had a reason to
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be what the fuck it with him? But he didn't.
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He said, I have dreamed about a future, and he
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inspired an entire nation and invited them to their higher
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level selves with an invitation to greatness.
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Welcome to the Radical Responsibility Podcast. I'm doctor Fleet Maul
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and I'm excited to guide you on a journey of
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authentic transformation. In each episode, I'll bring you insights from
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leading experts to explore trauma recovery, mindfuluence practices, positive psychology,
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and innovative breakthroughs in health, wellness, and life up themation.
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This is a space for real conversations that inspire meaningful change,
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helping you find alignment with the person you are always
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meant to be. Let's get started. What if transformation isn't
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just about thinking differently, but feeling differently. Science shows us
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that true change happens when we align not just our minds,
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but also the neural networks in our hearts and guts.
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This heart mind connection is the key to deeper healing, resilience,
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and expanded awareness. That's why I created the Heart Mind
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All access, membership and community, a space designed to help
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you rewire your nervous system, cultivate heart intelligence, and live
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with greater clarity and purpose. With over one thousand hours
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of transformational teachings specifically curated to meet your needs. You'll
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learn from world renowned meditation teachers, neuroscientists, and experts in neuroplasticity,
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all sharing powerful tools to help you shift your mindset
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and heartset, regulate your emotions, and unlock your full potential.
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You'll also gain unlimited access to every summit and course
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we've ever produced, a treasure of trouble wisdom worth over
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ten thousand dollars in growing, plus live gatherings, and an
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inspiring global community to support your journey. If you're ready
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to step into a more heart centered, connected and conscious life,
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I invite you to join us. Clip the link to
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learn more and start your journey today. What if the
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key to extraordinary love isn't binding the right person, but
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becoming the version of yourself that love is calling forward.
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In this episode, I'm joined by Annie Lalla, a matchable
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relationship coach known for blending science, soul, and emotional intelligence.
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Annie shares powerful insights about how our childhood attachment patterns
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shape our romantic lives and how we can use love
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as a path of feeling and transformation. She shows us
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how to work with conflict creatively, transmitt shame without blame,
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and reframe jealousy as a sacred signal. One of Annie's
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core teachings is this self regulation is the most important
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skill in any relationship. When we take responsibility for our
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emotional state, we become safer partners and more empowered humans.
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This conversation is a compass for anyone who wants to
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grow in love, not just survive it. Let's get started.
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My name is doctor Fleet Mall your co host for
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the session, and I'm really excited to be here today
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with Annie Lawla.
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Welcome Annie, thank you delighted.
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Yeah, we're so happy to be able to include you.
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Ever since, I've discovered your work and I've watched a
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bunch of your presentations on various sites and podcasts and youtubes,
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and it's fascinating work you do around relationship. You often
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speak about creating extraordinary relationships through deep connection and authenticity,
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So I wonder if you could share how individuals can
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begin to cultivate a more conscious approach to their relationship,
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especially when past experiences of shape feers and insecurities. You know,
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there can be quite a leap there from going from
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a relationship that we're kind of doing our best with tolerating,
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coping it's okay most of the time, to actually wanting
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to really, you know, embrace a more extraordinary level. It
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requires quite a leap and a little bit of work.
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I imagine a.
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Lot of work. Actually, my husband says, it doesn't take
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a lot to be in love. It takes everything. So
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I really see the game of relationship as the highest
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game human beings can play in their lifetime. It's most rigorous,
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it's performance athletics for your emotions, and I'm really committed
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that human beings believe in the possibility of true love
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existing and as possible for them. So I really think
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of myself as someone who helps skeptics believe in true love.
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And so whether you're single, down dating, trying to find
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your partner, or you're in a relationship and you're feeling
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cynical or skeptical about what's possible here and lying to
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give up that, I really love to intervene and basically
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show people. You know, every cynic is a failed idealist.
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You know, there's a part of them that had a vision,
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had a dream, had a possibility, and it got hurt
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or damaged or dashed to the curb, and then we
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give up on that dream. But in order to be
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cynical or skeptical, you actually still have to have the
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dream burning inside like a little ember. Otherwise you'd just
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be neutral, you wouldn't be cynical or skeptical. So I
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see that little ember and I go in there and
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I try to blow on it and reignite that possibility
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for singles or couples. And you talked about when you've
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been wounded or had problems in the past, you know,
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original attachment dynamics, your attachment imprints really govern your patterns
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in your romantic relationship, because when you fall in love,
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the dynamic between your original attachment figures or it's right
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over to your romantic partner. So even though you think
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this is your boyfriend or your girlfriend, you're actually treating
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them as if they're the attachment figure whose job it
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is to rescue you, sees you safe, you make you
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feel better when things go wrong, which is appropriate from
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the child version of yourself, that's the appropriate stands. But
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as an adult, we often relate to our romantic partner
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as if it's their job to make us feel better.
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And that's a developmental awakening that I offer people to
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teach them how to recognize that they're doing that pattern
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and using their partner, burning their partner being their attachment figure,
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but teaching them how to become their own attachment figure,
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their own inner adults, for their young, scared, upset, angry self.
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And that's a whole set of tools and technology. But
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the main thing I wanted to say here is what
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I've noticed in working with singles and couples is that
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you basically, once you have your attachment pattern set, you're
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basically on the hunt, roving through the world looking for
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a romantic partner that matches a set of criteria, and
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we think it's good looking, funny, smart, intelligent, and those
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are there. But what you're really hunting for is a
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particular brand of heartbreak, a particular quality of awi that
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is reminiscent and nostalgic of our original heartbreak in our
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attachment dynamic with whichever parent we had to work on
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feeling love from the most. So here we are we're
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thinking we're looking for a dream soulmate, but we're looking
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for someone who replicates that particular heartbreak. So once I'm
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able to show someone this is the pattern, you're attracted to.
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All these other people you don't feel the chemistry with
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because they don't produce that nostalgic heartbreak. So since you're
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always going to be looking for someone who's like, you know,
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if your dad was emotionally unavailable, you're always going to
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be looking for an emotionally unavailable guy. That's just the deal.
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So here's what you do. You want to look for
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the smartest, most intelligent, most conscious, most committed to personal growth,
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emotionally unavailable guy that you can find, which is what
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I did. I found my husband he was the best looking, smartest,
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most conscious, emotionally unavailable guy can find. So you just
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call the shot, because you won't be attracted to sensitive
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ponytail guy if emotional unavailability is what the imprint was.
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So it's like co opting the attachment pattern. And then
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the point of being in love is to meet someone
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who fits the role of replaying that attachment dynamic, but
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this time, this time, at the end of the scene,
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I will get the dream outcome where my attachment figure
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loves me the way I most needed but never got
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from my parent. And so once people realize the schema
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that's underpinning there, make choice. Then they can do it proactively,
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and I train both partners or the singles on how
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to consciously wield their already existing attachment patterns and those
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wound driven propensities to their advantage. To let go of
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this delusion that you're ever going to find someone who
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just satisfies instantly all your needs and wants and you
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know doesn't trigger you crazy, because you literally pick them
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so that they trigger you that crazy, so that it
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comes up for healing. So that's one thing, and you
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know I'm working with singles, I just say let's start
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looking for mister and missus.
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Right.
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We've got to make you into a version of yourself
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that you are proud to offer to the most inspiring
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human you meet, which is the only person you should marry.
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You should only ever commit to the most inspiring human
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you've ever met. Why settle for anything less than that?
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I mean, picking a partner is the most important decision
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you ever make in your life, and you're interviewing for
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that very important job. And so the first thing I
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do is try to help my singles create a version
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of themselves that they can sign their name too triumphantly.
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Who would you have to be to love what you're
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offering to another person? And then build a life and
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a tribe filled with activities that you love being in,
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because no partner wants to join a life and rescue
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you from it. They want to join a life that's
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amazing that they get to add too. So that's a
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few things to start with, and we could dap autle deeper.
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Well there's a lot there, you know, trying to project
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that perfect parent we didn't have under our partner, getting
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them to fulfill that as a recipe for disaster, But
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it sounds like you're saying that these attachment patterns we
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have are inescapable, and thus we're going to find somebody
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that meets you know, that creates that away, that meets
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that attachment patter, and we just have to learn how
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to work with that creatively. Which does sound like a
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formula for a lot of great personal growth work and
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therapeutic work. But isn't it possible to change the pattern?
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And I have to do that till it is.
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But here's the deal. You always think of a number line.
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There's zero in the middle, and to the left is
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like you know, use standard attachment language, a super avoidant,
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and to the right is super anxious. Right, oh my god,
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do you love me? Are they going to text me back?
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I need space, I need a long time. You always
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find yourself on one side or the other. And in
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some relationships I was a super avoidant and I ended
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up falling in love with someone where I ended up
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I was more clinging and attached at the beginning. So
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the more work you do to come closer to the
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center from whichever side you're lop sided towards, and it
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can be both sides depending on the relationship you're in,
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the more you integrate your shadowed ecotomy.
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Right.
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So all my relationships up until my husband, I had
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really I had to learn how to deal with and
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love someone in their anxious and nurture and reassure that
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person in order to make the relationship blast and be
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as flourishing as it was. Little did I know that
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I was practicing technology to be able to be my
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own attachment figure to my own anxious self when my
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husband might be avoidant in a conflict. And so the
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work I help singles do, or our individuals do, become
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more integrated and more balanced near the center because the
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mate that you attract is as far away from the
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center point as you are. So if you're very, very
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codependent and like, oh my god, I need someone else
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to prop me up, then you're going to find a
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very agantic individual's self absorbed person. It's why you get
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the full on narcissist with the super codependent EmPATH. And
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everyone's on one side of these two. Whenever I meet
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a couple, I'm always secretly going which one's the narner
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and which one's the more impact that codependent, and I
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get that they came to find each other to cross train.
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You're always attracted to the underdeveloped skill that needs to
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be blushed out in yourself. That's why you're attracted to it.
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My husband was attracted to my ability to empathize with others,
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except that was also a flaw. I was martyr, always
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empathizing with everyone else, and I was attracted to him
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because he knew his needs and wants and could empathize
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with himself. So our relationship has been about him teaching
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me how to empathize with my own needs, wants and
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desires and developing a backbone of selfhood that is trustable.
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And my relationship with him has been cultivating in him
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the ability to empathize with other people's needs, wants, and desires,
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attuned to the implicit unspoken requests from people. You know,
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I'm training him in the implicit, he's training me in
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the explicit. And honestly, after fifteen years now we've crossed,
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I'm actually a little more avoidant and alone time and
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like kind of need my space, and he's more let's
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go for walks, let's hang out. We need more time together,
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so that you could actually cross train your partner where
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you actually, in midlife kind of go to the other side.
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That's fascinating. So today, moment to moment, it seems like
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the working relationship or this the energy of relationship has
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allowed to do with our heart being open or it's opening,
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or it's closing, and it's not evisual. We can feel that,
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you know, shutting down, we're avoiding, or our heart is opened,
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even in a positive way, not necessarily a clean way,
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but it's actually opened. And so but that you know,
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can feel very vulnerable and very unsafe. Most of us
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have been bruised quite a bit childhood downward when we
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had our heart open with expectations and hopefulness and I'm
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here and then we get bruised, right, and so how
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do we override all that conditioning that.
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You know, it's like us intelligent con morty. Yeah, am
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I really going.
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To put my finger on the hostile again? You know?
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I hear you, And I mean, it's a really beautiful,
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elegant solution to close our hearts to keep it protected.
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And so I want to really honor and dignify the
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propensity of us to guard what's sacred and tender and vulnerable.
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And the heart art, like the mind doesn't really work
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as well when it's closed. Like if you are going
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to go out into the world and become successful. Putting
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on your closed mind is probably least likely to lead
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to success, and similar to the mind, when you close
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your heart, it literally doesn't work as well. I think
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of consciousness as equal parts mind and heart, and I
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don't even like to look at dualities and ecotomies, but
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if we have to make them, but you need to
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be have full consciousness online. You need to have an
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open mind and an open heart, and if either one
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of these is closed, you only have half of your
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intelligence online. Your success romantically or in any enterprise is
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going to be compromised if you're not bringing your full
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intelligence and your full consciousness. So you can't win if
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you don't play in their game of romance. And the
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only way to guarantee that you never get hurt is
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that you never ever explore a relationship, and so you're
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guaranteed to win that game. But do you really want
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to win that game? And I don't know anybody, even
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no matter how in love you are, that doesn't become
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doesn't befriend heartbreak, and the heart like a muscle, just
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like when you rip your muscle at the gym and
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it grows back stronger. Every time the heart rips, it
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grows back stronger. And so I look at heartbreak as opportunities,
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especially in the form of conflict, as opportunities to build yourself,
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your own emotional resilience and the resilience of the relationship
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stronger each time if you know how to fight. And
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there's a heuristics and technologies around alchemizing conflict and drama
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into communion, connection, and collaboration. A conflict is a collaboration
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trying to happen but getting undermined or stymide by the
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two enemies of collaboration, which is coercion and collapse. And
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we can talk more about that. You know, conflict is
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a collaboration gone wrong, and collaboration is a conflict gone right.
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And when you close your heart, you can't play the
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human game, first of all, and you can't trust. And
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what I love about trust is it's a word that
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has us in the middle. And in order to trust
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another human being, you have to feel like they are
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prioritizing and centralizing the relational dynamic the us more than
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their agenda, more than the outcome that they're attached to.
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Someone's trying to sell you a car and you think
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that's more important than this relationship. You don't trust them
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if you're part you know, someone wants you to come
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over to their house and help them paint, but they
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are willing to undermine the relationship. I eat guilt or
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shame you in order to get that you don't trust them.
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So I would just say vulnerability, first of all, is
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the word that gets used a lot. But I've noticed
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that young children never say when they grow up, I
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want to grow up and be vulnerable. It's not aspirational.
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So usually I just see vulnerability as a very special
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case of honesty. Vulnerability is a form of honesty. So
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my invitation is, how could you be more honest and
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transparent about what's really happening when your heart's wanting to close?
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Because when your heart's wanting to close, there's a framework,
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a belief that is generating the closing of the heart.
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And usually that leaf of that framework is dead, ossified
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data from the past, past experience, either yours or somebody else's,
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And you're literally letting obsolete data infect the present moment.
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And what if you could breathe into your body, be
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with the sensations in it, and use the fresh cutting edge,
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fresh off the press data of what's so in the moment,
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and if you can do that, which is really the
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key opening your heart is being coming present to your body.
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And when you're fully present, your heart naturally goes into
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its resting position, which is open. And so there's obviously
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a lot of tools and technology around this, but I
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would say if someone's in a situation where your heart's
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wanting to close, I would just ask yourself, is there
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any circumstance that you can conceive of under which it's
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more useful, pragmatic and effective to close your heart? Because
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I asked myself this question and I never come up
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with a yes. Even if you have to kill your
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enemy to defend your family, you will do a better
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job with your heart open. And as Byron Katie says,
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you can love someone with all your heart and never
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want to see them again for the rest of your life.
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So I like to circle back later to talk about
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attracting relationship or mathesting relationship for those of us who
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are single, and what aspire to a relationship in our lives.
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For those of us in relationship, As you've been describing,
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conflicts inevitable, and I like the way you relate it
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with collaboration and so forth, and yet you know, conflict
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can become embedded. There's all kinds of patterns. You kind
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of alluded to this in terms of how we play
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out our attachment patterns and also even old conflicts. I
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don't know if you're familiar with Virginia's cheers work, Ryan
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Sculpting love her, but you know, you'll have a couple
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in a fight that they constantly get into, and so
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you work with one of the partners to get him
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into the posture they're in, and you do this, and
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then suddenly they get it, Oh yeah, it's my father
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yelling at me. I'm four years old, as you the partner,
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and something similar, and you find that it's like the
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ghosts of their parents, and it's conflict out to them.
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It has very little to do with actually what's going
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on with them right now. And also then conflict can
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be you know, if we don't know how to work with,
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conflict can be so painful, terrifying and terrifying. You know,
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we walk away feeling bad about ourselves. You know, it
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can just be like you know, I mean, I know
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there's been times in my life where I just like
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no drama. That's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for
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a relationship with zero drama. That's probably a pipe dream,
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but it is a pipe dream. I know that much well.
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Drama is a form of a liveness, and so if
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you say no drama to any situation, you get no liveness.
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You know, I guess why.
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I mean, there's no use I know, yeah, yeah.
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And you know, as you get older, you learn to
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navigate preemptively to mitigate drama upstream. That's a lot of
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what I teach how to mitigate it upstream, which you know,
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most of a conflict happens before you even open your
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mouth to speak to your partner. It's all happening in
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here before you even interact. So I can do a
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lot of the work with just one partner in the
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relationship to mitigate the conflict. But I'm also quite a
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depth in the middle of the drama, like when a
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couple called me and they're in it. It's unlike the
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er doctor, I like, come alive in the intensity because
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I believe any two seemingly disparate perspectives that are occurring
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as antagonistic dichotomies, there always exists an overlap in the
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Venn diagram. I just believe that on pure faith, and
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it's because I believe that the way I hunt for
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that overlap and I look for it is with this
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it shall be so we will find the shared reality
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that we can use to build scaffolding up to the
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next level of this conversation that is more productive. And
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just having the audacity to have that faith, because a
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lot of times I see couples from their perspective, ones
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on the white side of the ying yang, ones on
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the black side of the ying Yang, and they're like,
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we are enemies. But I can see above that they're
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interpenetrating and that there is a shared reality. I can
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find some framework where they both go yes, I agree,
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and then I can build that out into a bridge
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back home home to what home to us. I know
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that their relationship is stronger, more resilient, and bigger than
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this one issue. Their love is wider than this fight.
401
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.960
And if I can remember that and shuttle that memory
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back to them during the drama and teach them the
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technology around collaboration, they will start to believe, even though
404
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:23.920
in the moment they're triggered in angry, they will start
405
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to believe there exists a version of this conversation at
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the end of which we are closer, better understanding of
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each other, and we will not regret that we had
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the drama because of the upgrade we got, and because
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I believe that's always possible in any conflict we get
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access to it right, Opportunities only occur to the minds
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that entertain them.
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Absolutely, so I want to talk more about that and
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an officer, there's a lot of skill sets involved in
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working creatively with conflict, and conflict can of course lead
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to greater intimacy w and work with the skillful and
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healthy ways. But it seems like to begin with, at
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least for me, there is a need to kind of
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maybe not rare, but for somewhere shift our attitude around
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conflict altogether, because earlier I've been very fortunate to have
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some really amazing partners of my life, and early on
421
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when my partner was upset with me, I just was
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out of there. I'm out the door, I'm to the bar,
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I'm going somewhere out the door. And this one partner,
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of course, I lost two earlier partners who were both
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amazing to cancer. I'm now an amazing marriage with my
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beloved Sophie. So idem very fortunate. I've had these amazing
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women in my life, and but anyway, this one I'm
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thinking of. She was almost literally grabbed me and just
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look at me, say, you're not gonna die. You're not
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gonna die. I'm upset, but you're not gonna die. You
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can survive this. Just stay here, let's work through this.
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You won't down. I'm like, no, I'm gonna die. I'm
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gonna die out of it.
434
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Yeah, yeah, like terrifying.
435
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At some point I had to become less threatened by conflict. Now,
436
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maybe that happened because I had some experience with working
437
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through it better, or maybe I just I don't know,
438
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but somehow I had to.
439
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Get well, I was just like you. I literally thought
440
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anger coming towards me from anyone meant I was going
441
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to die. That I had the same coding. And then
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I married mister angry, who's very comfortable with it. Well,
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there's two parts. First, I think realizing that there's a
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part of you that cognitively knows I'm not going to die,
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which she was speaking to. But there's another part that's
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pre cognitive, pre lingual and not in time. And it
447
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really does believe it's going to die because there was
448
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a time in your life where some anger was coming
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at you and your little nervous system could not cope
450
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and totally understandably and would dissociate, which is another form
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of leaving to cope, which is a beautiful technology that
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the human nervous system has, and it works so well
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that as we get older, we keep doing it. Except
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instead of dissociating into a fantasy world or playing with
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dolls or trucks, we dissociate into narratives that involve explanations, justifications, reasons,
456
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blames and shames. That's the new form of dissociation, is
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the story that we go into rather than being with
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the sensations in our body, which is from my experience,
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a feeling of fear or frustration. Has never killed the client.
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They've never spontaneously combusted. At worst, they tremble a little
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and cry. But teaching someone the process of being self
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regulated enough to be with their feeling is I think
463
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the great mission of being a human being. It's basically
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what all my coaching comes down to. One taking radical
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responsibility for feeling safe in your body, so that might
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include removing yourself from the conversation, leaving the house, leaving
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the room to take care of your nervous system. It
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also includes building more resilience so that you can stay
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more and more in the fire and feeling safe by
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learning how to regulate your nervous system in the face
471
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of an onslaught of upset or anger. So if I've
472
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had to build both tools, so I'm sure over time
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you've built the ability to tolerate someone's upset, but also
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you've chosen partners or pick people who have maybe more
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sophisticated ways of expressing their anger as well, So we
476
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could go into like how to handle those like I
477
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:10.119
don't know where you want to go with it, but
478
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.839
like we can dive into collaboration or what to do
479
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.640
with anger or how to be your feeling.
480
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.839
I think I just wanted to affirm that that is
481
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:19.160
a you know, it's a pathway to developing that willingness
482
00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:21.279
and that comfor level, and that it has profoundly shifted
483
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:23.920
for me over the years. But I want to talk
484
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.759
more about thee You mentioned the technology of collaboration, yes, juxtaposition,
485
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:33.240
conflictent collaboration, but you just mentioned self regulation, and it
486
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:37.240
seems to me like that is so foundational that if
487
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.279
we're going to have a healthy relationship and we aspire
488
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:43.200
to do the work of relationship, not being a tolerated relationship,
489
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.880
but really do the work, that both partners learn good
490
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.640
self regulation skills because otherwise, you know, being a relationship
491
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.599
kind of like walking through a mind field blindfolded and
492
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.559
have no way to retain our balance. Right, So there's
493
00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:00.839
like learning something about self regulation and even regulation on
494
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:04.960
a neurophysiological level are really important skills to have to
495
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:06.640
then do the work in relation.
496
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:08.720
I would say it's not just an importance. I think
497
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.680
it's the most important skill to being an effective human.
498
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:14.680
Definitely the most important skill for being successful in relationships,
499
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.799
in a relationship at all, and the king of skill
500
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:23.880
for being a successful parent. So learning it the reason
501
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.200
why it's so required to learn in your romantic relationship,
502
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:28.640
because if you're going to have kids someday, if you
503
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:31.599
don't know how to create safety in your body when
504
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:36.599
you're scared, angry, overwhelmed, then your child will never feel
505
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.759
safe around you, and they won't learn how to do
506
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.240
it by proxy. They learn my being trained in your
507
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.559
nervous system. And you know, for anyone who's listening. Regulations
508
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.880
is like a buzzword right now. It just means regulating
509
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.640
your own nervous system with intentionality. Our nervous system gets
510
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:55.440
tense and contracted and scared automatically and unconsciously, something happens
511
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.200
a loud noise. We go disregulated in order to regulate.
512
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:05.000
That takes conscious intentionality, So we get disregulated and stressed unconsciously.
513
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.880
Every other animal in the world goes after a stressful
514
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.319
moment and shutters out their shock. We are the only
515
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:17.039
animals that get contracted and do not have systematized, structured
516
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.480
ways to shut her out our distress, our shock the
517
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.240
after waves of a difficult situation, and that accumulates and
518
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.279
produces disease. Robert Sepolski writes a lot about this his
519
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:30.920
book Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. But let's come back to
520
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:33.680
what self regulation is. So first of all, I think
521
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.319
it's the mark of being an adult. My definition of
522
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:39.720
adult is someone who realizes a nobody come and to
523
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:45.599
rescue you. Ever and your emotional state, how you're feeling,
524
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.720
is your responsibility to be tracking you. Being attuned to
525
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:52.559
your nervous system is the one single job you have
526
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.519
on this planet. That's it. If you can just do
527
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.160
that job, everything else falls into place. Attuning to your
528
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.759
own nervous system in real time. And when you attune
529
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:05.400
to your own nervous system and track, oh, I'm contracted,
530
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:07.680
I'm a little scared, I'm a little nervous, and starting
531
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.559
to even calibrate. I calibrate and my three out of
532
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.039
ten anxious and my seven out of ten upset. In
533
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.759
our family, everything's got a number. If my daughter gets hurt,
534
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.240
she's like, mom, I got hurt, you know, a six
535
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.480
out of ten, or she's hungry three out of ten.
536
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.519
I really like calibration because it allows you to bring
537
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.880
more consciousness and granularity to it. But tracking your nervous
538
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.559
system so that you can notice when it starts to
539
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.559
get disregulated. By the time it hits five out of
540
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.079
ten disregulated, triggered, overwhelmed, it goes from five to ten,
541
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.759
like in microseconds. So you want to be tracking it
542
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:44.160
at zero, one, two, three, because then you still have
543
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.920
some sanity, and you're still driving the car, and the
544
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.960
lizard brain hasn't hijacked taken over, and you can still
545
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.279
do some conscious intentional self regulation like breathing. This is
546
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.640
the most simple self regulation is three or five deep
547
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:04.680
breaths and ideally through the nose, long slow exhale through
548
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.279
the mouth. That's the easiest, most portable. There's many other
549
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:11.160
tools and technologies. There's there's many self regulation techniques. There
550
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.920
are human imagination, you know, there's one self soothing tool
551
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.880
where you like smooth down the outside of your arms.
552
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.960
There's AMDR, there's ef T, anything that gets you into
553
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:28.400
your soma, literally wiggling your fingers and toes, exercise dance.
554
00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:33.240
Of course, meditation is basically a practice of self regulation.
555
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.759
And I think this is the mark of being a
556
00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:39.400
grown adult, is that you take responsibility for your own
557
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:43.559
emotional state. And most people in relationships have not realized,
558
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:46.799
and I understand it, have not realized that your partner
559
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:50.960
isn't there to regulate your nervous system. This is a
560
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.480
little bit controversial. I'm not a big fan about teaching
561
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.119
coregulation because I notice most people make a bypass and
562
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.160
they go straight from I don't feel regulated to it's
563
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.359
your job to regulate me. This is what I mean
564
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:04.319
that you have to become your own attachment figure. That
565
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:08.200
means you have to become able to regulate. So self
566
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.640
regulation is actually internalized coregulation. So you learn from a friend,
567
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:14.640
a teacher, you're a parent, a therapist, what it feels
568
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.720
like for someone to hold space for your feelings, to
569
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.400
dignify an honor your experience, and then you learn how
570
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:23.559
to do that internally for your own younger self. Then
571
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:25.720
when you do that, you no longer put the burden
572
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.519
of needing someone else to regulate you, and you're more
573
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.640
powerful because you're not contingent on someone's presence to be okay,
574
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:35.920
which means you're now an adult. And there is nothing
575
00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:40.240
more romantic in relationship, No flowers, no Hawaii vacation, nothing,
576
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.880
Nothing is more romantic than you're a partner being able
577
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.039
to regulate themselves and not put the burden of their
578
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.319
emotions onto you. Once you are proficient at regulating yourself
579
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:52.680
and you get philosophically that if I'm feeling scared, angry,
580
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:55.400
or upset, I need to either take space or go
581
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:58.079
use my tools or call a coach at get support
582
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:01.799
that doesn't come from my partner. Once you're there, then
583
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:04.440
as a gift the way, like if I'm sick with COVID,
584
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.200
I've been sick with love last week, not COVID, but
585
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.079
just with a flu. And my husband would just like
586
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:10.400
bring me food and take care of me and just
587
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:13.880
love on me. And he doesn't owe me making me lunch.
588
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.240
I receive it as a complete gift from his heart,
589
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:20.440
and he treats it like a gift, and I take
590
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.319
it like a gift. I don't go where's my lunch?
591
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:25.519
I'm sick in bed. I don't have many food yet.
592
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.839
And most people relate to the regulation of their partner
593
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:33.359
supporting and soothing them as an entitlement because the young
594
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.480
part of them that didn't get that regulation from their
595
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:40.920
parents when they should have is expecting it understandably because
596
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:42.759
of the young kid, you should have been soothed and
597
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.079
loved down by your parents. So the young part of
598
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.640
our partners is going, you owe this to me, and
599
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:50.440
I have compassion for that. But your partner doesn't see
600
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:52.000
you as a young four year old anymore. They see
601
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.079
you as a grown up adult. And you have to
602
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.559
realize that you literally picked someone who doesn't know how
603
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.079
to regulate you on purpose so that you could learn
604
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:02.079
how to do it yourself. That's actually what happens.
605
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.559
Yeah, and I love that, and obviously I love this
606
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:07.880
approach about what it means to be an adult. I
607
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.039
love David Ricco's book Being an Adulting Room.
608
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:10.680
Oh, I love it too.
609
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.519
Read that years and years ago. You know, I think
610
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:16.759
expecting cold regulation or being dependent on cold regulation from
611
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.920
others is obviously not helpful. But I would think that
612
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:23.160
if we're able to do a good job with self regulation,
613
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.200
if we develop a baseline of good self regulation, then
614
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.640
when we are in the presence of others, just by
615
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.599
practicing good self regulation and self awareness and embodied self awareness,
616
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.440
while we're in the presence of others that has a
617
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.200
cold regulating impact problem, that's a copy.
618
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:41.200
You're literally energetically demoing what it looks like to be
619
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:44.440
owning and honoring your feelings. And whether you say a
620
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.519
word or not, the other person's body can pick up
621
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.960
the demo. So if I go into a restaurant and
622
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.880
I heard baby crying and it's someone in the corner,
623
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:55.519
I feel the part of me that gets like the
624
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.000
mom and me. But if I regulate my nerve assystem,
625
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:02.440
I literally then that softness out into the field, and
626
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.200
I know it'll get its way to the mom and
627
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.839
to the baby. There's no faster way to regulate another
628
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.599
human being than to attune to your nervous system. Take
629
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.759
some breaths and regulate home. Most of us are trying
630
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.680
to regulate our nervous system the scenic route through other
631
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:20.240
people's nervous system. I can get everyone else to feel
632
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.400
calm and happy, then I'll be okay, instead of going
633
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:26.599
directly to our own nervous system making that feel okay.
634
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:29.960
So now you're a resource to support everyone else. I mean,
635
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.799
that was me for many, many years, thinking I'm loving everybody,
636
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.680
but really I just can't hang when they're angry or upset.
637
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.680
So I became a professional mediator of upset people. But
638
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:43.319
you know, my marriage has fixed that. I definitely married
639
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.519
the person who did not know how to regulate me,
640
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:48.359
and thank goodness, I hated it at the time, but
641
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.200
now I'm so glad that I've learned how to do
642
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:52.880
it because it makes me a way more extraordinary mother
643
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:53.880
to my child.
644
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.000
So let's talk more about what you described as a
645
00:33:56.079 --> 00:34:00.720
technology of collaboration, and also maybe as part of that understanding,
646
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:02.599
you know, I mean, I think there's so much shame
647
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.920
in our culture, in the way that we're enculturated as children.
648
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:08.400
I just personally feel one of my life goals is
649
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.880
to grid our culture of shame and blame. Very small
650
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:11.800
little project, I.
651
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:14.440
Have you help, I'm on the team, I'm on the
652
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:14.880
same boat.
653
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.119
It comes up all the time. So it seems like
654
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:22.039
if you're talking about effective collaboration and helping working through conflicts,
655
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:26.280
somehow we're able to transform or transcend shame in some way.
656
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:33.159
Yeah, I mean, shame is underneath a lot of aggression. Shame, jealousy, envy, guilt.
657
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:36.440
These are all status reducing emotions. When we confess them,
658
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:40.000
we apparently lose status in most culture, and so human
659
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:41.880
beings don't like to give up status. And so what
660
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.400
happens when you have shame and be jealousy or guilt
661
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:48.760
is it masquerades and dresses up as aggression, criticism attack.
662
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:50.960
We don't say I feel jealous because you're looking at
663
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.320
the waitress who's skinnier than me. They say, why are
664
00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:55.280
you disrespecting me? Why don't you go home with her?
665
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.360
Like you got to look behind aggression, and a lot
666
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:00.920
of times you'll find hidden shame, and the shame is
667
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.840
hidden from the person in whom's body it's happening, like
668
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:08.880
nobody usually knows they're feeling a shame. The way you
669
00:35:08.920 --> 00:35:11.079
know you're feeling a shame is usually you're either angry
670
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:14.840
or you're hiding something. That's one of the indicators of
671
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:17.760
shame is secrecy. So there's a lot of ways I
672
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:21.199
handle shame. First of all, well, I have a couple
673
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:22.719
of tools. I'll give you a tool, a round shame
674
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:26.239
for conflict resolution. First of all, I'm always scanning for
675
00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:27.880
where my client or the human in front of me
676
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:32.159
I'm speaking to might be having shame energetically, like before
677
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:35.199
they say anything, like maybe they're fixing their hair or
678
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:39.639
they're like uncomfortable. I find the part of their being
679
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:43.960
that is terrified of being marginalized, which is what shame is.
680
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.719
Shame is hailed from our original tribal ancestry, where if
681
00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:50.159
there's ten pieces of food and ten people in the
682
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.519
tribe and you ate two pieces of food, someone would starve,
683
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.119
and so you were shamed and shunned for doing anything
684
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:57.960
that was out of report with the tribe because it
685
00:35:57.960 --> 00:35:59.840
would compromise the integrity of the tribe, and so you
686
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:02.320
can be like cast out into the desert to dialogue.
687
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:05.760
So shame is always on pain of death. That's why
688
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:09.960
it feels monolithic and terrifying. So I send a message
689
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.360
to the part of that person that might be feeling
690
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.280
in terror or having that shame, and i'd literally I
691
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.920
just send love to it. I just go, I see you,
692
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.400
this is not verbal, and I just like send love
693
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:23.639
to all the places where the person might be having terror,
694
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:27.400
and I notice that some part of their being receives that.
695
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.480
But I'm also more explicit. So when I'm working with couples,
696
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:33.440
there's often like deceit or if you're a shamed of something,
697
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.599
you might fudge the story about how the argument went.
698
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:38.519
I try to write like a victory letter or see
699
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:42.599
the innocence of the person who's feeling is shamed preemptively,
700
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:45.159
and then I give them an out, like I write
701
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.559
a narrative that gives them reprieve from the shame so
702
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:55.000
that they don't even have to unconsciously dodge it. Of course,
703
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:57.559
I understand exactly why you wouldn't have told her that
704
00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.119
on the text, it makes sense, and then give them away.
705
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:06.000
I'm basically saying without saying explicitly, I know you feel ashamed.
706
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:09.039
It's okay that you have shame. You still have dignity
707
00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:12.480
and here's your innocence letter. And if I can do that,
708
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.920
I can often make this shame tolerable enough for them
709
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:20.880
to own up to a new, improved way of doing
710
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.360
it or take responsibility, because most people have take responsibility
711
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:28.000
equal to shaming themselves and making themselves bad. And I'm
712
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:30.079
always trying to scrape off the shame, blame and make
713
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:33.199
wrong between my clients or when I'm talking to them,
714
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:37.119
even a should is a could with shame smeared on top.
715
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:39.960
So you want to scrape off all that shame. And
716
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:41.800
one of the ways I teach my clients to do
717
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.480
this is to when they have criticism, so they have
718
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:50.119
feedback or complaints, and every complaint is usually in the
719
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:54.119
form of some kind of WTF stance, So you might
720
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.519
not say what the fuck, but you're like, did you
721
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:58.559
forget to get the almond milk? Were you late picking
722
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:03.199
up the kids? It's gone WTF infused into it. And
723
00:38:03.239 --> 00:38:06.280
so if you could take all your complaints translate them
724
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.840
from WTF to what I call MLK, which stands for
725
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.719
Martin Luther King. And if anyone ever had a reason
726
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:15.880
to be what the fuck, it was him. But he didn't.
727
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.119
He said, I have a dreamed about a future, and
728
00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.280
he inspired an entire nation and invited them to their
729
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.960
higher level selves with an invitation to greatness. And so
730
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:30.199
every complaint has a commitment to greatness behind it. So
731
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:34.519
if you can translate your WTF complaints into MLK speeches
732
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:36.719
instead of like why did you leave your dishes on
733
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.400
the table, I have a dream that you take your
734
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:41.679
dishes and you put them stray into the dishwasher because
735
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:43.679
you want to collaborate and be part of this team,
736
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.199
this family keeping the house clean. Like there is a
737
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.719
way to show your partner how their behavior could be
738
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:53.039
even more aligned with their values and not add to
739
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.119
their already existing shame. You actually have to give them
740
00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:59.360
a way out of the shame away into hero And
741
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:03.880
that's what the MLK stance is. How can I paint
742
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:07.239
a future where they win, not complain about where they've
743
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.800
screwed something up, So it's future focused and possibility driven
744
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:15.239
rather than past focused and shamelate. That's one tool I
745
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:16.280
used to scrape off shame.
746
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:19.960
I just want to re affirm that just that sort
747
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:23.639
of MLK stance that you're using and that shift that
748
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:25.880
could be a north star in relationship, that could take
749
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.679
us a whole long way.
750
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:29.719
It really does, and we use it in our family system.
751
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:31.960
If I say something my osand will be like, can
752
00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.800
you mlk that, which means can you translate that into
753
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.199
an inspiration instead of bitching? And I'll ask him to
754
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.159
mlk it too, And it forces development for both because
755
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.159
who you have to be to inspire your partner into
756
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.639
a developmental change is a higher version of yourself. It's
757
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:51.960
someone that you would sign your name to more triumphantly.
758
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:56.159
And your job, is romantic partner, is to stand fiercely
759
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:59.519
for the greatness of your mate and to emancipate them
760
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:03.760
from their small, wounded, defended self into their their essence.
761
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.639
You're not trying to change your partner. You're trying to
762
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:10.679
scrape away everything that isn't them, like barnacles on a ship.
763
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:13.880
I think of the Michelangelo metaphor, where you hire your
764
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.280
partner to be Michelangelo, and you're the block of marble,
765
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:19.840
and they see David inside the marble. That's what they
766
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.239
fell in love with, not some other version of you,
767
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.480
the real you. What your partner's trying to scrape away
768
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:29.159
or curb is your unconscious, wound driven patterns, your defense
769
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:33.840
strategies not you, they love you. They're scraping away everything
770
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:37.159
that's not you to emancipate the magnum opus of who
771
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:41.199
you are from the block of marble. So choosing your partner,
772
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:43.880
choosing your Michelangelo, your sculpture carefully. That's why it's the
773
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.000
most important decision you ever make, because you will fall
774
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:48.039
in love with another person. You fall in love with
775
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:51.280
who you get to be because of them by being
776
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:54.480
with them, because they're going to stand for the highest
777
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:56.440
vision and carve you into it.
778
00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.679
Would you repeat that, But you don't fall.
779
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.400
In love with You don't fall in love with another person.
780
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:04.480
You fall in love with who you get to be
781
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:08.199
around them, through them, beside them. You fall in love
782
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:11.840
with the vision they have of your greatness, which supersedes
783
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:14.639
the vision you even have for yourself. You fall in
784
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:18.519
love with who your partner sees in you at your greatest,
785
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.039
and they become your Michaelangelo. And then they carve you
786
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.639
into it. And sometimes they carve you with poor bedside
787
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:26.880
matter and harsh criticism. And I try to teach those
788
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:31.400
partners how to mlk their invitations to greatness. And even
789
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.159
if partner does give you feedback, that feels critical as
790
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:38.039
the one that's receiving it. Your job is to remember
791
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:42.159
that you are already a masterpiece. You're the Mona Lisa,
792
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.800
and they're just dusting off the Mona Lisa with their feedbacks.
793
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.840
If you remember your own dignity and greatness and then
794
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:53.320
look for the golden nugget amongst all their grumbles. Is
795
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:55.800
there an iterative upgrade in there that would make me
796
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.840
an even more extraordinary version of myself? And the question,
797
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.239
if you ask yourself, is the complaint my partner's making
798
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.320
of me? If I fulfill the thing they requested, would
799
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:07.840
it make me fall more in love with myself? Would
800
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:10.360
I be more proud of myself? And if the answer
801
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:13.280
is yes, then your partner is doing exactly the job
802
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.599
you hired them to do, which is be a mirror
803
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:20.440
for your magnificence and poetry, but also a mirror for
804
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.480
your madness and wherever you fall short of your greatness.
805
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:24.719
So they're just doing their job.
806
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:28.840
I bought power struggles. Power struggles can get pretty deadly
807
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:31.280
as long as people stay locked. And now I used
808
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:33.400
to have a lead a training before the pandemic. We
809
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:35.519
haven't been able to do it really since pandemic. Well,
810
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.760
hopefully we'll do it again some day. But very intense
811
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:41.000
in person group work, like thirty poor people with a
812
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:44.280
training team of six people true primary trainers and taking
813
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.320
people deep into their family awards and stuff, and a
814
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.440
lot of intense sitting role plays and a lot of stuff.
815
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.440
And sometimes we would have a couple in the training
816
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:55.039
or sometimes someone with their adult child and they would
817
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.920
be just locked into such a power struggle, just the
818
00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:59.920
horns locked that neither one of them was going to
819
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.639
of an inch. At some point myself or my coul
820
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:05.239
trainer might say to one of them, what do you want?
821
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.119
You want to be a writer? You want relationship? Do
822
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:08.880
you want a win or you want relationship? You don't
823
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:12.239
get to have both and others because power struggle thing
824
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.480
can be and of course goes way back to our
825
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:16.960
attachment issues in our childhood and so forth.
826
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.159
But if you I just co opt the whole thing,
827
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:22.360
I just literally when my couples have power struggles, I
828
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:29.559
build a culture where the most spiritually developed, sensitive, loving,
829
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:33.920
attuned partner is the winner. So I fetishize that. So
830
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:36.960
if they're in a power struggle, I start talking to
831
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:40.199
them about who's willing to be the hero, and there
832
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:42.159
you know, they're in and in, in and in. I'm like,
833
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.440
it's okay, and I can tell which one has more
834
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.400
resource than the other. But I often let them self
835
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:48.599
select and I go which one of you wants to
836
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:52.199
be the hero right now? So I'm already framing the
837
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.440
one that leads with the olive branch or softens is
838
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:59.880
the hero, and I'm turning and co opting. The competition
839
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.519
is in a fight. They're trying to fight who's right.
840
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:04.480
They want to win, so I don't want to take
841
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:06.079
that out. I want to let them win, But let's
842
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:07.639
win a new game. Who's going to win the game
843
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:13.039
called badass partner? Who remembers the importance of us? Who
844
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.480
comes back home to love. Sometimes when I'm angry with
845
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:18.159
my husband, we'll go into a little tiff and then
846
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:20.559
I'll come back into the kitchen once I've like regulated,
847
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:23.800
and I'll be like, I remembered. And I remembered is
848
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:25.800
code for I remember that we're in love and that
849
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:28.239
our relationship is bigger than this grumble. But when I
850
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:31.320
say it, I have a little bit of I'm remembered.
851
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.519
What you doing? You still grumbling over there? You still
852
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.719
often your little grumble because you ain't as spiritually developed
853
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.960
as me. Like I take it, I co opt the competition,
854
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.320
but now we're competing for who's going to come back
855
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.920
home to us faster, and so I find that really
856
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:51.400
works to just a kido the power struggle from who's
857
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.320
right who's wrong, to who's better at loving, which is
858
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:56.079
a much better game to play to win.
859
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.280
It seems to be a true lie in your work.
860
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:00.559
While you're calling co opting or working with the dynamics
861
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:03.239
says you are, rather than trying to escape them or
862
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:06.599
deny them or literally change and really work with the
863
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:08.920
dynamics and some story train.
864
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:12.880
It's a yes and right. It's yes and transcend means
865
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.880
include and go beyond. So I got to include what's
866
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:20.239
so and just dance it into something like love it
867
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:22.679
into submission whatever the pattern is that we want to
868
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:25.400
work through in ourselves and someone else. You can't obsolete
869
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:29.000
a pattern, lobotomize a pattern. You can only attend to it,
870
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:33.719
see its dignity, and then love it into submission. Because
871
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:37.039
when you love, when you appreciate a pattern, see it's
872
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.400
years of work that it's put in, Give it's gold,
873
00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:43.559
watch for its years of service, it organically and naturally subsides.
874
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.880
Patterns only persist when you shame them, make them wrong,
875
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:49.960
or tell them they need to go away. Just like
876
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.880
a child. If you tell them that, they just dig
877
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:53.840
their heels in and they go I in, leave it
878
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.320
until you see me and love me. That's what your
879
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.519
patterns do. So I just find a way to love
880
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:05.239
the pattern into softening, and then what's more current and
881
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.599
useful and born in the moment will surface. Because those
882
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:12.159
patterns are from dead ossified experience, from your past, they're
883
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:15.360
usually no longer even applicable to the current moment. I mean,
884
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:19.039
to be triggered and disregulated is actually a form of
885
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:22.239
time travel. To be triggered is to time travel back
886
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:24.880
into the past to a younger self, usually under ten
887
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:27.039
years old. Even though you are a forty year old
888
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:29.679
adult in the kitchen. Your nervous system is time traveled
889
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:31.920
back to the past, so the first time you had
890
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:35.599
that difficult emotion, and so once you've time traveled back
891
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:37.360
to the past to a five year old version of yourself,
892
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.440
when you're triggered, you only have access to your five
893
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.559
year old files. And that's why you look like a
894
00:46:41.559 --> 00:46:45.639
tantruming human with not much sophistication, and all those courses
895
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.119
and plant medicine and all the meditation courses you've done
896
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:51.119
help you zero because you're a five year old. So
897
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.239
that's why self regulation is actually a form of time travel.
898
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:58.800
Self regulation is you doing some actions breathing that time
899
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:02.159
travels your ass to the present moment where you have
900
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:05.920
grown up adult files and technologies that you can access
901
00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:10.880
and wield creatively in resolving the conflict. So self regulation
902
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:13.440
is actually a time travel as far I'm concerned.
903
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:16.480
A stalk romant about jealousy. Jealousy in some ways seems
904
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:18.880
almost like the dark side of love or something, But
905
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.920
it's a human emotion. It's normal, it's naturally it happens.
906
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.800
What drives jealousy and how do you work with jealousy?
907
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:27.519
I think jealousy gets a bad rap. I think jealous
908
00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:30.920
is the the very sophisticated astute emotion, and evolution does
909
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:34.480
not waste time on anything that isn't adapted. So jealousy
910
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:38.320
is in many animals a way of protecting the pair bond,
911
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:40.639
and it's a way of guarding the sacred us, a
912
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:44.400
fourth of us. And what I'll say about jealousy and
913
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.280
is so interesting. As a love coach. For twenty years,
914
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:48.559
I've never had a single client except one in the
915
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:52.360
last year, that is ever confessed to being jealous ever.
916
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:56.280
So again, memory I said, jealousy always mass craades his aggression.
917
00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:01.360
People have jealousy as coded as weak and secure. You're
918
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:06.079
not confident. Here's what I think about jealousy. It's never
919
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:08.480
for no reason. I'll give it a metaphor. So the
920
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:11.079
way a clam makes it or an oyster makes a
921
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.400
pearl is a little grain of sand has to get
922
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:17.000
in there, and it's an irritant, and then mollusk goes, oh,
923
00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:18.880
I don't like this grain of sand, and it excreets
924
00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:22.159
All this iridescent stuff that coalis is around this grain
925
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:25.239
of sand, and it produces a pearl. So at the
926
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:29.159
root of all jealousy is a grain of sand that
927
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:32.559
has truth. Now, if you think your partner is cheating
928
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:35.280
on you with the secretary because he's coming home late
929
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:38.719
from work, the story that the jealous feeling makes in
930
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:42.400
your mind is almost ninety nine percent bullshit and not believable.
931
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.960
But the feeling that something's off is trustable. So I
932
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:50.519
trust jealousy to indicate something is off. The story of
933
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.519
what is off, I trust zero. When a couple comes
934
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.920
to me and one of them is jealous, usually the
935
00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:58.760
partner is like, well, they're being ridiculous. All I did
936
00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:00.880
is take a picture of the patapa who was a guy,
937
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:04.320
and now you think I'm dating him, And they paint
938
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:06.960
out the jealous person to be like psycho. But if
939
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.920
I trace it back down, there is always systemically in
940
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:15.679
the relationship behaviors that the partner who's being accused is
941
00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:18.880
doing that is lacking in full devotion that they're not
942
00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:21.800
aware of. There's something that they're doing that is not
943
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:25.159
in full devotion that, if they were doing, would preclude
944
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:27.360
the jealousy. The grain of sand wouldn't be there for
945
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.960
the pearl. Most of the pearl is all fake. It's
946
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:33.239
not the sand, but there's a grain of sand in it.
947
00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:36.199
And so jealousy that danced with both partners where I
948
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:39.360
help the person not trust the story that the jealousy
949
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:41.480
is spinning, but to just come to their partner and
950
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:44.840
saying I'm feeling like something's off. My mind is generating
951
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.079
a story. Here's the crazy story my mind's generating. I'm
952
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:49.840
hallucinating that you're having an affair, But the fact that
953
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:54.000
your partner is jealous indicates to you that there's low
954
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.840
hanging fruit being left on how to upgrade your devotion.
955
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.679
And when I help that partner cl go off unconscious
956
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:06.480
sexual tentacles, they're sending out or unconscious ambiguous signals that
957
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.880
they may be indicating or behaviors that are not in
958
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.920
full devotion of the primary relationship. Once I bring that
959
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.400
into their attention and help them upgrade that the jealousy
960
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:18.960
goes away. So jealousy indicates an opportunity for more devotion
961
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.000
to show up in the other partner, And usually the
962
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:25.199
partner can't see where they're missing the next level of devotion,
963
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:28.920
and the jealousy is the invitation for their growth. Think
964
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:33.320
if your partner's needs as custom crafted by the universe
965
00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:37.039
to wake you up to your next level self. Whatever
966
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:40.719
persistent need or complain your partner has is the universe
967
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:45.159
literally trying to carve you into wholeness. And never ignore jealousy.
968
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:47.960
You don't have to trust the story. Neither the jealous
969
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.480
person or the person feeling jealous of shouldn't trust the story.
970
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:54.840
But there is something to it. My husband likes to
971
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:57.559
go around saying, oh, I never feel jealous. I never
972
00:50:57.559 --> 00:50:59.480
felt jealous once with Annie, and I'm like, yeah, that's
973
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:03.400
that's because the way I handle myself is such that
974
00:51:03.559 --> 00:51:05.400
you will never feel it. And I know it's a
975
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.639
lot of times couples, you know, one partner will say
976
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:09.880
I never feel jealous, and I'm like, that's because she's
977
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:13.679
got her shit together and she's in full devotion or
978
00:51:13.719 --> 00:51:15.880
he's in full of potion. So that's how I think
979
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:17.840
about it is. I don't dismiss it. I see it
980
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:20.679
is very intelligent. I think it should be always. I
981
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:24.639
basically don't believe you can have jealousy if there isn't
982
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:27.480
something off, even if the guy is just staying late
983
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.480
at work, having a marijuana took after with the guys
984
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:33.280
and not telling his wife it's nothing to do with
985
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:37.519
a woman, but something's off. And to distinguish, jealousy involves
986
00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:41.679
three people, envy involves two. So I can be jealous
987
00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:43.400
that my best friend is hanging out with a new
988
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.440
female friend doesn't even have to be sexual, and I
989
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:49.599
can be envious of, Oh, she published her book and
990
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.920
I haven't published my book yet. It's fubly different.
991
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:57.639
We kind of idealize in romanticize long term relationships and
992
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:01.239
forever love and so forth, And obviously it's a beautiful thing.
993
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.000
And sometimes we see people that have been together for
994
00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:06.480
a long time and they're still romantic with each other.
995
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:10.920
It's a really touching, an heartwarming thing. And I'm wondering
996
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:15.079
if sometimes relationships do have an endpoint. Oh yeah, And
997
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.760
I wonder if you could talk a little bit about
998
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.760
how people can discern whether it makes sense to keep
999
00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:21.159
a relationship.
1000
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:24.440
Well, I think relationship is a school, and it's an
1001
00:52:24.519 --> 00:52:28.960
educational dojo. It's a school, and you graduate every relationship
1002
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.480
I was in up until my husband romantically I graduated from.
1003
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:34.119
I think if it is graduation rather than a breakup,
1004
00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:36.199
I think I like the flavor of that because you
1005
00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:38.920
get to keep your diploma, your education of what works,
1006
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:44.199
what doesn't work, your own developmental upgrades, and no relationship
1007
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:47.199
is a failure because you learned from it, and that
1008
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:51.599
is hard one knowledge, and so knowing when it's time
1009
00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:55.599
to graduate is a skill. I think most people give
1010
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:59.360
up too early because what happens is after the drugs
1011
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:01.199
wear off after nine to eighteen months and all the
1012
00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:04.679
hormones wear off. Then you're left with a fallible, imperfect
1013
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.000
human in front of you who cannot fulfill all your needs.
1014
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.639
In fact, you picked someone who absolutely, by design, will
1015
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:11.960
not fulfill your needs and exactly the way that you
1016
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.519
most want them to, and then you get mad. So
1017
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:17.239
I think any couple that's together is supposed to be together,
1018
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:21.199
no matter how crazy their relationship works. They are constellating
1019
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:24.079
because each person is trying to get a nutrient or
1020
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:27.199
a developmental upgrade or an education that they need to
1021
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.360
become more integrated in whole. That's why they're in the relationship,
1022
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:33.440
and they won't break up or graduate until they get
1023
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:37.119
that nutrient, that education, that upgrade. And I never break
1024
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:40.480
up a couple, but I can usually sniff out whether
1025
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:42.440
this is what the longevity of the couple is, and
1026
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:45.719
I might ask questions to both partners, the answers to
1027
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:51.800
which poise them more. Should become aware that graduation is nigh,
1028
00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:54.119
and I think it's very important to graduate in a
1029
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:58.719
way that has finesse and grace because the quality of
1030
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:02.440
your last breakup governs your success in the next relationship.
1031
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:04.920
And so you may think, oh, I'll just you know,
1032
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:08.079
get out of this and forget about it any uncauterized wounds.
1033
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:10.920
If you don't think you know. When you graduate, you
1034
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:13.119
want to graduate from the highest level of poetry of
1035
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:16.880
that relationship. You want to graduate from what's the best
1036
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:20.159
version of us that I remember? And you don't break
1037
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:21.639
up in a fight. I don't let anyone break up
1038
00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:24.000
in a fight. I don't let anyone demonize their partners
1039
00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:26.920
to get over them. Because you once you start loving someone,
1040
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:29.239
you always love them. So when you demonize an ex,
1041
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:31.760
you demonize the part of you that loved them, and
1042
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.760
you actually turn it into self loathing. So you can
1043
00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:37.559
honor again, like Byron Katy said, you love someone with
1044
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:38.920
all your heart and never want to see them again
1045
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.159
for the rest of you. It so you can honor
1046
00:54:41.719 --> 00:54:43.840
the love and the poetry and the beauty that you created.
1047
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:45.960
And that's what I want you to put on the
1048
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:49.159
cover of the book of that relationship in your mind,
1049
00:54:49.679 --> 00:54:52.119
because all your memories are like art pieces hanging on
1050
00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:53.639
the walls in your mind. You don't want to have
1051
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:56.960
art that you're not proud of. They're not that's not empowering.
1052
00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:59.119
So what did you learn from that relationship? What was
1053
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:02.000
the poetry? Was the bet break up from that place,
1054
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:06.360
which is harder to do, and graduate always conserving the
1055
00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:10.159
dignity and self esteem of your partner and you and
1056
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:14.599
the relationship. So act as if your relationship past, present,
1057
00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:18.039
and future is listening to how you think about it,
1058
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:20.440
how you talk about it with your friends, and that
1059
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:25.239
relationship it's self esteem is either like this or like this,
1060
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:28.360
and you want to speak about your relationship pastor present
1061
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:31.239
or future in a way that the relationship feels proud
1062
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:33.800
of itself, like you're proud of your degree when you
1063
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:37.440
graduate from university. And so I have a lot of
1064
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:42.400
different ideas on how to graduate with class, but knowing
1065
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:47.039
really comes down to who's worth the suffering. That's my
1066
00:55:47.119 --> 00:55:50.199
least glamorous definition of love. Who's worth the suffering? Because
1067
00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:53.159
there's no relationship where you're not going to have to
1068
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:56.119
do work to transcend your patterns. And the reason that
1069
00:55:56.199 --> 00:55:58.360
it's hard is because they're calling you to a next
1070
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:01.320
level of work. And every relationship I was in had
1071
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:04.679
some difficulties, but there was no one worth that level
1072
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:07.800
of suffering, worth doing the work for. Until I'm at
1073
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:11.079
my husband and he's worth the work at the skin
1074
00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:13.880
of his teeth, but he is and so and what
1075
00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:16.159
is the work? It's all work in service of my
1076
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:19.280
own development. I'm using my relationship and my husband as
1077
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:23.599
a gymnasium as a dojo for me to get muscles.
1078
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:25.559
So when people talk about it, it's not fair. How
1079
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:27.880
come I have to change and they don't change. You
1080
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:30.039
don't yell at the training machines at the gym and
1081
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:31.679
go how come you don't have to lift the weights.
1082
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:35.119
You're using the gym to grow your own emotional resilience
1083
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.320
and developmental muscles. And if my partner wants to sit
1084
00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:40.639
out of the sofa eating potato chips and ice cream
1085
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.599
while I'm working at at the gym, well they can.
1086
00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.280
I'm doing it for myself. And I've noticed when couples
1087
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:49.239
are in love, if you do your work and let
1088
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:51.760
leave them, don't even need them to do theirs, just
1089
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:55.159
you lead by example, they do come trailing behind. My
1090
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:57.840
husband's always about three months behind me in a new
1091
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:00.599
developmental pattern, and I used to get all frustrated and I'm
1092
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:03.039
just like, ah, he's on his way. They watch. I
1093
00:57:03.079 --> 00:57:05.800
don't use my partner's suboptimal behavior as an excuse for
1094
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:07.840
me to not go to the gym. I just want
1095
00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:09.360
to be acting in a way that I can sign
1096
00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:11.000
my name to you that I can feel proud of.
1097
00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:13.239
Are you behaving in your relationship in a way that
1098
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:15.880
if you were on a reality TV show and everyone
1099
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:18.880
you admired was in the audience, that they'd be clapping
1100
00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:21.559
for you. That's what you want to be running so
1101
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:24.199
that you're lining up with your own values. So in
1102
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:26.760
terms of knowing when to leave, honestly, I think it's
1103
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:31.440
the woman that usually has the clairvoyance because the woman
1104
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.800
is the female In traditional heteronormal relationship, the feminine principle,
1105
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:40.159
let's say, is the visionary leader of the relational possibility.
1106
00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:44.559
It's the steering wheel and the masculine principle is the engine.
1107
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.440
And so whether the woman breaks up or she subcontracts
1108
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:49.719
it out to the man, she's the one that decides.
1109
00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:52.400
The way a woman usually does that is she's just
1110
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:54.719
not happy. When a man loves a woman, if his
1111
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:58.360
woman is continuously complaining and not happy, he will opt
1112
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.320
out because he wants her to feel happy, so he'll
1113
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:03.440
leave the space for someone else to do it. And
1114
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:06.320
the woman doesn't realize she's the one that created that
1115
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:10.360
by not standing for and being able to inspire and
1116
00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:13.559
build a relational dynamic that serves her a liveness.
1117
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:18.519
It's been incredibly illuminating and really inspiring. I feel tremendously inspired, Danny.
1118
00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:21.000
Thank you so much. I want to tell just about
1119
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:22.639
we kind of are out of time, but I still
1120
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:24.320
wanted to ask you one more thing and just catch on.
1121
00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:27.239
For those in our audience who are currently single and
1122
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:31.000
would like to create relationship in their lives, are feeling,
1123
00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:33.079
you know, the loss or feeling a longing for heaving
1124
00:58:33.159 --> 00:58:35.239
relationship in life, what advice do you have to kind
1125
00:58:35.239 --> 00:58:37.199
of your own position that the.
1126
00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:40.960
Best thing for single Yeah, I've got the best very
1127
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:44.800
short relationship coaching for singles. Okay, so singles, man or women.
1128
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:47.440
First thing you've got to build your You've got to
1129
00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:49.760
start doing your bird call. When you walk down the
1130
00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:51.920
street on a summer afternoon and you hear the birds saying,
1131
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:53.519
what do you think they're doing? They're putting out a
1132
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:57.280
mating call. Your bird call, man or woman. Your bird
1133
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.760
call is you doing something that brings you into flow,
1134
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:04.440
into your own aliveness. Whether it's online in person, it
1135
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:06.440
doesn't matter what it is. Make sure you are in
1136
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:10.719
public forums. Physical three D or digital forums where people
1137
00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:15.480
get to see you doing your superpower, your flow behavior.
1138
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:18.679
The thing that brings you most alive, that is your
1139
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.280
bird call. I literally found my husband at Burning Man
1140
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:25.960
doing a talk on his favorite ideas. He didn't realize
1141
00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:28.960
he was doing his bird call, but he was and
1142
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:32.079
I heard it. That's how your partner finds you because
1143
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:34.159
when you're doing your bird call, which is mean channeling
1144
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:37.880
your art, your soul is on display. That is how
1145
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:40.559
your soulmate finds you, is they hear the call of
1146
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:43.000
your soul. So it's not about going on match dot
1147
00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:47.599
Com and tender and getting a matchmaker. It's finding opportunities
1148
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:51.559
to be in your most radiant version of yourself and
1149
00:59:51.639 --> 00:59:54.280
trust that you're sending the bird call out. So get out,
1150
00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:55.800
you know, get out of the basement and get out
1151
00:59:55.840 --> 00:59:59.000
in the world. That's the first thing. Second thing is
1152
00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:02.800
if you're looking for, say a female partner, treat and
1153
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:04.320
just say you're a man. If you're a man looking
1154
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:06.119
for a female partner and you're ready to find your
1155
01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:09.840
life mate, try this on every woman you talk to.
1156
01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:13.000
Every woman. Eighty year old lady in the pharmacy, six
1157
01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:16.000
year old girl in the playground, twenty four year old
1158
01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:20.760
Starbucks Buriste. Every female you interact with, treat her as
1159
01:00:20.840 --> 01:00:24.679
if she is an avatar of the goddess. She is
1160
01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:28.800
in communion with your future soulmate, and after your interaction
1161
01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:32.079
with her, she's going to send an email energetically to
1162
01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:35.559
your future soulmate, letting them know where you are in
1163
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:38.880
your personal development by how much of how much reverence
1164
01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:42.440
and how much dignity you left them with. So it's
1165
01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:44.440
not just oh, this chick's pretty, I'm going to talk
1166
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:48.760
her up at the cafe, it's every woman. Treat every
1167
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:52.199
woman as if their father was standing right beside them
1168
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:56.119
invisibly and he was watching how you're talking to their daughter.
1169
01:00:56.599 --> 01:00:58.719
How would you behave so you could wink at the
1170
01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:02.000
father after even if you didn't want to interact with
1171
01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:05.000
him romantically. So how would you behave so the father
1172
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:07.119
would be like, thanks man, thanks for taking care of
1173
01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:10.880
my girl. If you run that program, every woman you
1174
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:13.519
interact with will feel like a queen, which turns you
1175
01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:16.199
into a king and brings your highest self forward. And
1176
01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:18.840
she's either going to be the one or practice for
1177
01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:21.920
the one, and you are bringing your a game then,
1178
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:24.480
So you don't want to just treat chicks that are
1179
01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:27.320
candidate wife potentials with your A game. You bring your
1180
01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:29.920
A game every time you interact with a woman. I'd
1181
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:32.760
say the same for a woman looking for a man.
1182
01:01:33.079 --> 01:01:35.119
A lot of my female clients don't realize that when
1183
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:38.440
they interact with men, they're running all kinds of lenses
1184
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:41.159
and daddy issues and prejudices. And I say to them,
1185
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:44.239
treat every man as if he is a king. I
1186
01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:46.239
don't care if it's a little boy or an old grandpa.
1187
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.880
Treat him as if he's a man, as if his
1188
01:01:49.960 --> 01:01:52.000
mother is standing right there and looking. How are you
1189
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:54.280
going to treat my little boy? How would you treat
1190
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:57.360
that man? So you leave his self esteem intact or better,
1191
01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:00.519
even if you're not romantically interested in them. And imagine
1192
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:02.880
that man that you're talking to is going to send
1193
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:05.360
an email to your future king and say, your girl
1194
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:09.119
is ready, you better come find her. And so that's
1195
01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:11.719
my favorite coaching for singles is if you take this
1196
01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:14.719
on and really treat every man or woman with this
1197
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:17.800
higher level of consciousness, your partner is going to find
1198
01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:20.320
you very quickly. They're already looking for you. We often
1199
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:24.719
have patterns that are blocking the docking station for the
1200
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:27.000
relationship to port, and so what I do with a
1201
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:29.559
lot of my singles will help clear the port so
1202
01:02:29.599 --> 01:02:31.960
that the dream relationship can dock. And those those are
1203
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:40.079
usually beliefs, prejudices, wounds, or just busyness that's keeping you available.
1204
01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:43.880
Wow, I just love the way you kind of intertwine
1205
01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:48.519
and balance a very practical advice with this inner wisdom,
1206
01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:51.400
really deep inner wisdom, all in this kind of landscape
1207
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:55.159
of adult radical responsibility. Right, So it's just so beautiful
1208
01:02:55.239 --> 01:02:56.840
and the advice you just gave there, I mean that
1209
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:01.079
is the interview of how you attract relationship into your
1210
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:04.719
life is by manifizing that kind of energy that honors
1211
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:09.079
those peek archetypal energies of the king, the queen, the
1212
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:12.559
goddess and so forth. And really it's cmlk you're m
1213
01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:15.840
malkaying everybody exactly, You're mlking everyone.
1214
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:19.039
Yeah, people rise to the level of your listening of them.
1215
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.159
And so if you walk through the world leaving a
1216
01:03:21.159 --> 01:03:24.320
wake of people feeling loved by you, I mean, even
1217
01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:27.719
if it's just a smile, you can leave someone better
1218
01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:29.519
or worse than you found them. Just leave everyone better
1219
01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:33.159
than you found them, and your partner will find you.
1220
01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:38.119
I would also say just start visualizing them. Literally, start
1221
01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:41.280
visualizing when you're standing at a kitchen sink. Visualize your
1222
01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:44.599
partner putting their chin in the nook of your neck
1223
01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:47.280
and their arms around your waist. You don't know what
1224
01:03:47.320 --> 01:03:51.159
they look like, but the feeling is this grounded, safe
1225
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:55.880
of coarseness. Just start anchoring be of coarseness. Not the
1226
01:03:55.880 --> 01:03:59.800
Sunday one day maybe yearning, but the grounded of coarseness.
1227
01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:03.199
And I think that's how they find you because there's
1228
01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:05.840
it shall be so's already in the vibe.
1229
01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:09.639
Thank you so much, Hanny. It's been incredibly inspiring, and yeah,
1230
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:11.199
just what a gift, What a gift.
1231
01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:13.760
Thank you delighted. Thanks for having me.
1232
01:04:13.960 --> 01:04:16.760
People find out more about you at your basic website.
1233
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:19.480
Yes, Annie Lala dot com A N N I E
1234
01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:21.920
l A l l A two n's and Annie to
1235
01:04:22.159 --> 01:04:24.559
L's and Lawa. I've also just started a podcast. It's
1236
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:27.480
on Spotify. It's called Matters of the Heart and it's
1237
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:30.480
got all my edgy ideas on relationships, family of origin,
1238
01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:33.679
like we go into parenting, sex, all of it. So
1239
01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:37.239
checking that out. I'm also on Instagram. It's at lalabird
1240
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:40.800
l A L l A b I R D and
1241
01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:42.840
I put you know reels out every week, so check
1242
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:43.159
me out.
1243
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:47.280
Wonderful, absolutely great, Okay, thank you, be well. Thank you
1244
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:51.119
for joining me on the Radical Responsibility Podcast. Remember, real
1245
01:04:51.239 --> 01:04:53.760
change happens when we commit to our growth, face our
1246
01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:57.280
challenges with compassion, and stay open to transformation. If you
1247
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:00.480
found this episode helpful, I encourage you to s subscribe
1248
01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:03.840
and help us spread the message of healing and personal empowerment.
1249
01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:07.119
Stay grounded, stay present, and stay true to you. Take
1250
01:05:07.159 --> 01:05:07.400
care