WEBVTT
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Dude, marketing in 2026 is crazy.
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I personally spend 15k a month on meta ads.
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Meta doesn't work well for people that suck at speed to lead or have a good CSR.
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Do you miss any calls?
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How fast do you pick up?
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Like we pick up a seven seconds.
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If you don't have that, don't spend money on meta.
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It's just a waste of money.
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Like there's a company that went from 10 million to 150 on the back of Meta.
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Just meta?
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Yes.
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Here's what I love about Meta.
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Anyone can go compete.
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Marketing is not just marketing anymore.
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Call center and marketing are becoming the same thing.
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I will say the only other thing with Meta that I've seen is.
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I'm your host, John Wilson.
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On this show, we talk about the home service industry.
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We talk about how to buy businesses.
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We talk about how to build them.
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We talk about my own business.
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And we also talk with my friends on what they're doing inside the industry.
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Today I'm rejoined by Sam Preston in person.
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Live.
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Live in live in studio.
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Yeah, before we started filming, we were flexing in front of the camera to see how good we look.
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So if you see us doing that, just ignore it.
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It's all steroids.
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Literally.
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So I'm a dad and a business owner.
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I don't type anything else about steroids.
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I run.
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Yeah, I run.
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Welcome back in person.
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This will be a ton of fun.
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We're here at the Breaking Five Workshop.
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And it's been good.
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I love this.
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I love this.
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Best one yet.
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It keeps getting better.
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It is good.
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Yeah.
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Well, one of the reasons why it's better than the last time is because it's bigger.
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Yeah, it's big.
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Yeah, we uh we had I think it's 35 people.
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And um I mean, literally the it the room is too small for it.
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Yeah.
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So because we had to cap it.
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We capped it uh like a month ago, and uh we're thinking about doing it, we're thinking about moving it to a different section of the warehouse um to like allow for like 40 or 50 or whatever because we had to shut off um tickets like uh yeah, like back in early August.
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Yeah, which is crazy.
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Like we've never had to do that before.
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I literally had some people in Akron that were prospects looking at you know doing marketing with us, and I was like, you should be at the breaking five.
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And I couldn't get tickets.
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Yeah, they're all sold out.
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I was like, my bad, you're like here, but you cannot come.
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I I think I think we'll be at moving on to a new room.
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Um just and not Mexico or like Yeah, well, there is like a Mexico, we're doing like a little Mexico retreat in November, so that'd be like you okay.
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Did I get an invite to this?
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I don't know.
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Well, it's like home service above 10 million.
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Are you above 10 million?
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No, no, unfortunately.
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I haven't been there yet.
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But yeah, the it Mexico would be fun.
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Yeah, Mexico.
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It's an episode.
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Um, so what are we talking about today?
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We're talking about like marketing in 2026.
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Dude, marketing in 2026 is crazy.
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It is insane.
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I don't know if I've said this every year.
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I I don't want to look.
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I don't want to look back at like transcripts and be like, for four years, John's complained about the state of marketing, but like I'm kind of complaining.
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I said this in the last podcast, but it's so true.
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Like four years ago, it was like this market is so volatile.
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Every six months something changes with Google and we have to change everything.
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Yeah, and now it's like every other day.
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Yeah, like if I go look up a YouTube video on how to do something, if it's older than a week old, I'm not watching it.
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Yeah, it's already outdated.
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That's crazy, and so it's just it's a different world.
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Yeah.
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I think this, I think marketing, um I I bring this up a lot.
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Have you and I ever talked about the elephant curve?
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Okay, so I think that this is not my concept.
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This is, I think his name's Jason Cohen.
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Um, and he was the founder of WP Engine, and he has a personal blog, and it's called something bare.
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I I don't remember.
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But if you if you search WP Engine uh elephant curve, like the blog, the article pulls up, and um I think everybody should read it.
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I think it's like a fundamental lesson in marketing.
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So the concept is marketing follows an elephant curve.
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So it goes from like if you trace an elephant, like if you're watching this on video, and an elephant's just standing, you know, you have the trunk, it goes up along the head, the back, and then down the tail.
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So it's like it's a bell curve, basically, but we're calling it the elephant curve.
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Uh and I think it's because of the pace of growth.
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So the idea behind the elephant curve is that when you add a new channel, you begin your curve.
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So you get fast results with a new channel.
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And those results, you go from like, hey, we didn't do meta ads and now we do meta ads, which by the way, like we should talk about meta ads because meta-ads are like I feel like the craziest thing that's come out of 2026.
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Um but uh so hey, we didn't do this channel, now we do this channel, and we added a net new 400 leads a month.
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Um, but like that doesn't just keep growing from zero to four hundred leads a month forever, it's not this exponential curve, it flattens out along the back of the elephant and then eventually declines because you have maximized that channel.
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Yeah, I think we all instinctively understand this.
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Um, and there's a few different ways to like combat it, but I I think that in 2026 and 2025, and like as this has gotten more competitive, we are just having to move iterate faster.
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Yeah.
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So I think five years ago, hey, we launched a new channel.
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Well, nobody's really using LSA yet.
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So like we had a lot of room to run on LSA before we hit our flat line.
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Well, now it's more competitive.
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Yeah.
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Uh so you just run out of room.
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I would say meta right now is like kind of an underutilized uh channel by most service businesses, us included.
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Um, so I think uh yeah, I think it the elephant curve idea is you add new channels, and then as you add more channels, you don't solve your problem.
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So if you add like when I mean channels, I mean like Google Ads is a channel, mailers is a channel, uh canvassing is a channel.
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Like these are all channels.
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Yep.
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But as you add more channels, you don't like solve the problem, it doesn't stay exponential.
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Each channel, it's just a bigger elephant curve.
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Yeah.
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So like you just stack the elephants on top of each other.
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So like, okay, Meta, we had huge results really fast and it stabled out.
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Yep.
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Well, Google, we had huge results and it stapled out.
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Mailers, we had huge results and it stabled out.
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So our job is to find more channels after we've stabled out the previous one because it will stable out.
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And I think that in 2026, like my hot take is that we're just having to do that way faster than we used to because uh there's just more competitive.
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One of the best things that you can do as a home service operator is get in the right room with other great entrepreneurs.
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And that's what we are building with Catalyst.
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Over the past few years, we've hosted six awesome events where we bring home service entrepreneurs from all over the country to our shop in Akron, Ohio.
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We're taking everything that we've learned from those six events and we are putting it into something awesome.
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From May 3rd to the 5th, 100 plus home service entrepreneurs are coming to our shop in Akron, Ohio for three days where we're gonna be having tactical sessions, breakout conversations, and learning from some of the greatest operators in the industry.
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You're also just gonna be building relationships with people facing the exact same problems that you are every single day.
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This is going to be our strongest room of operators yet.
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Grab your seat for Catalyst below.
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Okay, it's uh I've never heard of that uh the elephant curve, but it like it makes sense.
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Um Yeah, I think it's instinctual.
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You know, like, hey, I'm gonna launch a new channel, we're gonna get a bunch of leads, but eventually, like that will steady out.
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Like, no one's like, oh, the LSA can go on forever and grow exponentially.
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I I think we all know it instinctively.
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That's just like here's a study around it.
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Yeah, I mean, at some point you only have so many people searching in your market on Google.
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Yes, like you might even be in a really big market, it might be a huge search volume, but at some point you max that out and you have to go find other channels.
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Well, and the way to combat it is you've adding more channels doesn't necessarily defeat the problem.
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No.
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Because you will just have more elephant curves that you have to deal with.
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Yes.
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So what you have to do is you have to find a new customer segment.
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So for home service, that's like a new location.
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So, like, okay, well, we're, you know,$30 million or whatever, and I guess 40 now in northeast Ohio, but like we added Indiana and we're seven or eight or something out there.
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So new segment, new customers to introduce our services to new curve.
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Or you add new products or services, which uh is also like a fair way to do it.
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So, like, hey, you begin your curve, you get more people in the system, and then hey, that channel works.
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So let's introduce electric HVAC, whatever.
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Uh, but those are the two ways to like defeat the problem and continue exponential growth is you stack more channels, yes, but then you also have to introduce uh like net new customers, like new market or new product service, or both.
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How do you so inside of uh a certain market?
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Let's say I don't want to actually want to grow, like I don't want to go to Indiana, like I like my local area, right?
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Like Indiana's great.
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No, no, no offense, no offense.
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Indiana is great.
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Like, I'm sure it's great.
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Yeah.
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Um, but like so you you're saying like the way you would just keep growing inside that same market is to add other product, add other services, or add another channel that's not in the same boat as the current, you know, like LSA to Google Ads, it's literally the same thing.
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Instinctually, I think we all understand this.
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Hey, in order to grow, I have to grow horizontal, uh, which is like breadth of service, or vertical, which is more locations of plumbing only.
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Like rotor, are you gonna be a rotor router where you have, I don't even know, 500 locations of plumbing.
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Um and then are you gonna be neighborly or something where it's like a bunch of different franchises?
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Now, Roto Rooter is a good example because they ended up doing both.
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Like they hit maturity, they have I don't even know how many locations, and then they added water restoration.
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So then they did the second part of that, which is new service.
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Interesting.
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But yeah, I think we all know that like you can only do like the growth model is more locations or more services.
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Yeah.
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Uh for a long time we did more services, so we just like continued to drive the same.
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I think the issue is it complicates the business.
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Why is that?
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Like HVAC is a totally different business than plumbing.
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Yeah.
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Um, I think that like rotor router is is like my key example, or Zoom drain or something like that.
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Like doing one service and just doing it at scale is a simpler business model to run.
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Yeah, I think.
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Oh yeah.
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Than like seven service lines under one roof.
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I mean, we're running that right now for my own business where we've done SEO for so long, and that is very much website and content and backlinks and all that kind of jazz.
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And now socials is starting to play into affecting your SEO.
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Yeah.
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And so when we say, like, oh, we do SEO for you, but we don't do like one of the major functionalities that's gonna make a difference, like that hurts.
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And so I'm like, okay, well, how do I how do I go win in posting on Instagram and Facebook, which we've avoided on purpose for years?
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Um, and so trying to figure that out as a new service that we're organic.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, it's interesting.
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Um so okay, that was like my lecture on uh elephant curves, but the state of marketing of 2026 is I think it has just accelerated the need to add channels and potentially accelerated the need to choose one of those two options.
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Yeah.
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Now that could also just be my perspective from my own business.
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And like obviously I'm not running like I'm running a larger business in the trades, so maybe that's I don't know, maybe that's tainting it.
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Yeah, I mean, I think uh the most the majority of businesses are you know probably sub-five uh that are trying to grow.
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And I think that if you are in that spot, adding a new service is much harder than just going deeper into that current service.
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And so I think that's where you start.
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I actually think it's the wrong decision to add a service below five.
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I think so.
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I think that um I think that yeah, my hot take is I think it's the wrong decision.
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I I can point to a few awesome examples of like hyper growth companies that are single trade, um, and they're just doing a great job.
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And like I've said this on the years for podcast uh on this four years on this podcast, but if I could go back, I would have been plumbing only to like 40 million dollars and then introduced HVAC and then introduced electric.
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Like we love HVAC and Electric, and our teams are awesome.
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Yeah, but it is easier to run and scale one business and then add more onto it once you have infrastructure.
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I mean, now it doesn't matter, like we're an at scale business, but it would have been easier growing to do that just as a solo.
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Uh CallDad did that.
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Yeah, totally HVAC.
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Yeah, they just introduced plumbing.
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So like they're at 10 locations.
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Uh so it's similar to Rotorooter, and they're at 10 locations, and all HVAC, they like maximized breadth, not maximized, but 10 locations is a lot.
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Like I mean, we're only at six or something.
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And then they added plumbing.
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Yep.
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Service maxing, that's what we can call it.
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Yeah.
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I like that.
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I like that.
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Um Meta is wild.
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I mean, back to state, but meta is kind of wild.
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Meta is super interesting, right?
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Meta is really interesting.
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It is, I keep running into these businesses.
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Meta was written off, which honestly, like, I I think I think that like 2025 and 2026, marketing for like me has mainly just been like re-exploring things that I wrote off five years ago.
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Because like it's like, you know, five years ago, I was like, ah, this fucking doesn't work.
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Like, like uh, I feel like Angie's List or Meta, like you can sort of pick one.
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Dude, Angie's List is literally our highest ROI channel and it's not close, and it is so annoying.
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It is so annoying because for years I was like, fuck the shit.
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It's the best, like it is our best channel.
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I meet so many people that say that.
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I mean just as many people that hate it.
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Crazy.
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But like every single time we're talking to a prospect, I'm talking like, hey, what are your lead partners?
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Have you tried Angie's?
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And they go, No.
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I'm like, please go try it because I don't know if it's in your market, but so many people count it as their best lead source.
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It's crazy.
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It's crazy.
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I mean, for years, like, I don't know.
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So anyway, so 2025 and 2026 is just like, it's not even us being creative or like inventing, you know, I feel like we went through a few years where we were like ahead of the curve, and like and like, I mean, in a lot of ways, I still think we are, but like a lot of 25 and 26 was just be like, hey, you know that thing that we hated five years ago?
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.679
Like, maybe we should just look at it again, see what we think.
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.919
Yeah, oh my god, it worked.
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.879
Yeah, but meta ads has been uh similar.
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.120
We have not had the same results yet.
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.159
We did it with like drains, we're trying it with drains right now.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:52.639
Yeah, but like I'm seeing companies close to like high eight figures or nine figures that meta is like what Google was to us three years ago.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.559
It is their dominant channel, yeah, which is mind-boggling to me.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:15:59.360
Yeah.
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:05.200
I uh we're I'm I'm I'm like redesigning our meta package right now.
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:14.879
Um, meta doesn't work well for people that suck at speed to lead or have a good CSR, or I would also say have a premium price.
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:16.080
Premium price.
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:26.240
What the bit that is the biggest thing that I see successful again, we're not having this experience, so like I'm not, you know, this is me talking from just like here's what I see.
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.399
Um if you are premium priced, you will struggle.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:38.799
Like you need you can be premium price, but you need a like uh you need a low, low option.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:39.120
Yeah.
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.039
Because Meta is just a different, it is a low intent channel.
00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.000
You can't, you know, you don't you're not getting no heats.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.480
You're getting people bidding five contractors at a time to like do a repair.
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:55.440
Uh so it's a tremendous amount of leads, but like it's it's cheap.
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.120
Yeah, like the consumer is cheap.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:57.919
Yeah.
00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:05.920
Um, so you have to be good at speed the lead because you are competing so well, and you have to good at have a good talented CSR uh team.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:06.640
Totally.
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:13.759
Uh which we could we would have never it's the same with Angie, we would have never uh been able to do.
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.519
I think that's why it didn't work for us in the first place.
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:35.039
I think all of these lead channels in 2025 we rebuilt our speed delete system, yeah, which part of it's software, um, and like Evoka's doing that, but then a lot of it is like our our behavior, like what you're saying right now, like our call center behavior.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.599
Because speed delete is uh yeah, it's hard to get right, it's important.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:50.640
But like once you do it, once you once you have the technology, and most importantly, the people on top of the technology to like make it better, that's when it works.
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.640
And then any lead channel works.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.960
That's what we found where it's like, hey, now we have this system that we didn't have five years ago.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:03.279
Yeah, like it's not because Angie got better, Angie was probably the same, it's because we got better, yeah, and now it works for us.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.079
Yeah, but it's the same with like yeah, meta leads.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.880
Like, if you get 10 leads, maybe you only book two.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:10.880
Yeah, so you gotta sell one, you know.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.240
Well, uh for the audience, because I get this question a lot.
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:19.279
Yeah, and I feel like people don't actually understand when we talk about speed of lead, like what does that mean?
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:19.759
Yeah, okay.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.279
Because I'll go, hey, you need to have good speed of lead, and they'll go, Oh, yeah, I've got good speed of lead.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.319
It's like, okay, hold on.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:24.880
What do you mean?
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.640
Yes, oh, I answer the phone quickly when someone calls.
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:29.039
Yes.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.759
I'm like, okay, great, but like how many rings?
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:32.160
Yeah.
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:39.119
Like if someone submits a form or is like reaching out via Angie's list, how quickly do you like is it seven seconds?
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:39.920
Is it 30?
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:45.920
Like, so when some when you say like you have to have good speed lead, yes, define it to me like I'm a five-year-old and don't remember.
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:47.279
Yeah, no, that that's a good point.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.039
Because I I hear this a lot too.
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:50.160
It's like, well, we respond.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.480
And I'm just like, well, shit.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:53.759
Where are you?
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.200
Can I compete with you?
00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:00.400
Um, yeah, so we speed delete is when you get a call.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.319
Do you do you miss any calls?
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.000
How fast do you pick up?
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:05.359
Like we pick up at seven seconds.
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.200
Like it's been seven seconds for years.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:08.079
We watch it every week.
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:09.119
Like seven seconds.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:09.359
Yeah.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.119
I'm anal about it.
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:12.799
And uh seven seconds.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:17.440
Um so we pick up at seven seconds, and uh, so that's phone calls in.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:27.119
But the bigger you get and the more like you have leads outside of phone calls, that's actually where I think it gets a little bit more complicated because suddenly you're watching like contact instead of call.
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:27.599
Yeah.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:40.880
And you know, if we get, I don't know, 500 phone call leads in a week in uh Akron, we might get 2,000 written leads.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.119
Yeah, like it is a huge amount.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.000
Um, so I I think that's the complicated one.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:57.839
So uh so what the way that works is it's like a technology uh that all of the leads go into, you immediately text them, like it's automatic, which I think is the important part is the automatic contact.
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:58.319
Yeah.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:22.400
Um and then once there's uh automatic contact, like continuing it into a into a booking, yes, and adding the human being, uh so like as an example for like low intent lead sources like Angie's Meta Modernized, like anyone that's like, here's a lead that's not good Google LSA, um a 30% book rate is considered good.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah, so three out of ten, which is not high.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:39.759
And uh what we found is the automated text gets you from like zero to fifteen, twenty percent book rate on those contacts.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:46.079
The trained CSR that you're talking about, like once you contact, if they don't respond back, like who's hounding them?
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.440
How do you how do you add calls?
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.319
How do you add emails?
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.400
Like, how do you book that lead like you paid for it?
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.839
That's what gets you to 30 and above book rate.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:54.400
Yep.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.440
So so I love this.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:56.480
Okay, speed to lead.
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:01.200
When we say speed to lead, we mean are you answering the phone phone within seven seconds?
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.440
Um, and then are you missing any calls?
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.319
Are you missing any calls?
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.319
Do you have technology to pick up calls at night?
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.599
Some people call 11 p.m.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.359
Like what's your overflow?
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:18.960
And then when uh after your initial contact, how often you are reaching out to that person via SMS, phone call, and email?
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.519
Yeah.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.279
How many times do you do it on the first day?
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:21.839
Yeah.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:23.039
I'm asking.
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:23.680
Like how many?
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:25.200
Like do you read seven times?
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:26.480
Um, it's a lot.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:26.880
Yeah.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:32.160
I mean, it uh I mean there's some companies that do like 30 times in that first week if you don't book.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:32.640
Yeah.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:34.720
So that's that is speed delete.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:35.200
Yeah.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:36.079
I like that.
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:36.720
Yeah.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:38.480
Yeah, it it's it's a system.
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:43.200
And I think um I've said this so much, but probably a couple years ago.
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:57.839
In plumbing HVAC electric, we are we are such a unique industry versus um windows as an example, or bathroom models, or uh whatever else.
00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.599
So as you're thinking about your call.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.359
Center and how to handle leads, you should almost never be studying larger plumbing HVAC electric contractors.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:17.599
Uh, because it is not complicated to get big in plumbing HVAC electric on broken furnaces and broken water heaters.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.079
No.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.839
It's like it's kind of straightforward.
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:21.119
That's how the industry works.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:31.920
When you start adding low intent lead sources, like bathroom models has to, or Windows has to, where they have to get a lead and really like own that lead, control it, sell it.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.200
It's a it's a different level of maniacal.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:37.279
Um it was pretty humbling.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.079
When we first started looking into our speed to lead, we talked to a guy who's doing epoxy garage floors.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:43.680
It was like two million dollars.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:50.480
This guy knew more about his lead funnel than we did, and we were a$25 million business.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.039
And he was he was running circles around me.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:53.759
Let's go.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.400
And he was like growing the business purely on meta.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.799
And I was like, I don't even think we could do that right now.
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.720
Yeah, because we're not locked in the same way that this guy is locked in.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.200
Yeah.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:04.720
So yeah, it was really interesting.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:15.680
So yeah, yeah, you don't study other plumbing HVAC electric companies, you study companies that have that live or die by low intent leads, which plumbing electric lives or dies by high intent leads.
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:15.920
Yeah.
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:18.240
So yeah, you gotta you gotta study everyone else.
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:19.359
I love that.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.680
So gotta be good at speed to lead in order for Meta to work.
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:29.680
And then you have to be good at turning those leads into appointments with a talented CSR team.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:30.240
Yes.
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.480
Um, and I think people get that mixed up a lot.
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.359
They think Well, you don't have to in plumbing HVAC.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:47.119
I think that's like your CSR team is trained from day one to book high-intent leads that are phone calls.
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:53.519
When you add low intent non-phone calls, it is a totally different call center.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.559
Like completely different.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:06.240
I mean, we had to rebuild our call center last year completely around this idea because we were not thriving because we were building a company like how this used to work.
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:06.720
Okay.
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:12.079
So yeah, I think I think to me it makes total sense that people aren't good at it because like we weren't good at it.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:12.559
Yeah.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:14.559
I mean, now I think we're really good at it.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:15.359
Now you're good at it.
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:16.240
Yeah, it's a strength.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:17.839
Yeah, it is cool.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:18.480
I love that.
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:18.960
Yeah.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:19.759
I love that.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.240
Yeah.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:20.960
Okay.
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:22.480
All right, so so back to meta.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.119
Yeah.
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.519
So you're seeing meta pop.
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.720
Meta's working so well across the board.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:34.640
Uh again, not for people that suck at speed of leads and have cause if you don't have that, don't spend money on meta.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.839
It's just a waste of money.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:46.480
But if you can figure those two things out and you already have the system in place, you've been running, you're growing, you're looking for that second channel, it's a great place to be.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:46.960
Yeah.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.279
Yeah.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:47.920
Yeah.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:55.680
Well, I keep I keep seeing these um, I keep seeing these HVAC companies specifically growing on meta.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:08.160
And it is it's fascinating to watch because I think um it takes a lot of work, and I think that's why people aren't very good at it.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:13.119
But once you yeah, once you like put in the fundamentals, it's crazy.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:20.720
Like there's a company that went from 10 million to 150 out in uh well, I'm not gonna say where, but like on the back of Meta.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:21.839
Just meta?
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.200
Yes.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:26.000
Like, yes.
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.440
It's like the yard signs guy.
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.680
I'm like, what I know, how did you do that?
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:30.480
That's the thing.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.640
When I saw that, I was like, what the fuck?
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.079
And then there's another company, uh, top line.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.480
I think they talk pretty publicly about this.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:46.160
Um, and I I'm pretty sure they've got because I see their trucks like sort of bebop around, but I think they're out of Pittsburgh or something like that.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.160
Um I don't know how big they are now, 40 or 50 or 60 or something.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.359
But uh almost exclusively meta is my understanding.
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:53.759
Yeah.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:01.279
But what they what they have is like it's a very low ticket item, I believe lower gross margin, but I've never seen their financial, so I don't know.
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.119
Yeah, lower gross margin.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:10.319
And um and I think that's what you need, and then like an obsessive system over like handling those leads.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:24.799
But you know, the you know, if you're a retail, like if you're a retail HVAC shop, your average ticket might be like 12 to 14,000, but the people succeeding on Meta are installing nine to ten thousand dollar full systems.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:25.440
Got it.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:49.680
So like it is a difference, it's a total it's a different type of sales, which I also think that's why HVAC current HVAC companies don't really know how to deal with it because they're used to like going up, up, up, and this is like it's it's meta, it's like kind of a race to the bottom, but it is a unique amount of volume, it's half of the global population, it's a unique amount of volume.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.559
Here's what I love about Meta is that anyone can go compete.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.400
It's not like Google Business Profile where people have been doing this for 20 years.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:58.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.880
They already have 20,000 reviews, and you're just like, man, how do I go beat that?
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:08.079
It's not like Google Ads, where again, like people, you know, well, and the big companies aren't good at it.
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:08.799
They suck.
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:09.440
They're not.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:16.960
Well, and the thing that's I like the hyper growers today are meta ads hyper growers.
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:30.880
Like that that's the thing that's been blowing my mind for the past like six to twelve months is all the companies that I see like can still clipping 30% year over year growth in the high eight figures or low nine figures, yeah, are driven by meta.
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:31.519
Yeah.
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.079
Which like that's crazy.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:41.920
Whereas like when you look at the sort of I'll call them legacy hundred million dollar businesses, like they were built like how Wilson was built.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.160
Yeah.
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:46.319
Meta, or not Meta, but like Google, leadags, mailers.
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:46.960
Yeah.
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:48.799
Mailers is actually crazy too.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.160
I'm seeing a lot of mailers right now.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:50.559
Really?
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:51.039
Yeah.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:52.559
Oh my gosh.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:53.119
Yeah.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:02.319
Yeah, like meta and mailers is like it's uh but like the the hyper growers, the guys growing like 20 or 30 percent or more.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:09.920
Um, I'm saying 20 or 30 percent, like because these are like already 50 million dollar businesses, you know, that's a lot for a 50 million dollar business.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:21.599
Yeah, I will say the only other thing with Meta that I've seen is uh clients can get in their own way because of how much creative that actually needs to be created to make it work.
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:22.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:29.920
And I think the idea behind is like, oh, I'm just gonna do a couple different um campaigns, and it just gets slowed down and it doesn't work as well.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:40.880
Um, and so uh having that creative team just allowed to go and test and I think that's what our benefit is like for we're doing it for drains right now.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.279
Yeah.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.599
And like we have our own film team.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:52.000
And like I I think it would be I also think that's another reason like it never worked before is we didn't have our own yeah, like we just couldn't do it.
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:52.480
Yeah.
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.880
I personally spend 15k a month on med ads and it works well.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:57.920
So yeah.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.279
Um like for the for your home service business.
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:02.160
Yeah.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.680
And so we like we like Facebook over here.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:08.720
Yeah, Facebook's crazy.
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.279
All right, so Facebook mailers, what else we got?
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.400
Um, Google Ads is super interesting.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.799
I'm like, I'm so fascinated.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.759
I have not we're in the middle of our switch.
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:21.839
So I don't have an opinion yet.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:22.240
Okay.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.440
What should I expect?
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:23.920
Okay.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.880
So just for context, LSA is this moving from the LSA platform, it's being merged into Google Ads.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.279
Yep.
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:36.079
Which I can see either being awesome or a shit show, but I doesn't seem like it'll be neutral.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.160
It is gonna be both for sure.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:38.720
Perfect.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:39.200
For sure.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:50.799
So, yeah, so we so we like preempted it because like the moment we got announced, we're just like, we're doing this so we can control the timing because Google will eventually just sunset it and then we won't have an option at all.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:53.680
So we're just gonna do it and start so we can control our timing.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.960
Which none of our clients' accounts are actually inside of Google Ads yet.
00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:57.680
It's all right.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.279
Ours went live this week.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:29:59.920
Did it?
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.119
None of I like checked this because I wanted to make sure I should.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:04.960
Yeah, we should.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:14.559
Um I got an email from Google this morning that they're now connecting uh YouTube profiles with Google Ads accounts.
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.240
Oh, that's interesting.
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:22.880
So um we're running, so last year we ran a bunch of P Max uh campaigns.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:24.640
Didn't work this year.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:26.960
I mean, it works sometimes, sometimes it didn't.
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.920
This year, P Max is popping off.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:38.720
And if you look into what's working in PMAX, it's search, which is what search has always been the main driver.
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:39.119
Yeah.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:47.519
So if I'm looking in my little crystal ball, I'm looking into the future, like they're gonna like I think they're gonna get rid of traditional search.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.759
I thought they were I thought they were turning it into like chat-based in November, I thought.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.160
I'm I think they're getting rid of it all, and it's all going into P max.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.200
Like, what's the biggest complaint that you ever heard about?
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.599
Um, or that you heard the most often about LSA?
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:04.400
I don't even know.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:05.599
Like inconsistent.
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:07.759
I can't spend my entire budget.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.039
Oh, that is right.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.480
That is, yes, that is right.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.880
Who that's Google's biggest problem.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:13.440
Yes.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:15.440
Is they're not spending your entire budget.
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:16.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:17.440
So what are they gonna do?
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.119
They're gonna pull that into P Max.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.799
Yeah, that'll be interesting.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:22.160
You know, I think so.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.480
We spent the Okay, I like this a lot.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:35.519
So we spent the first half of the episode talking about like all the channels that we sort of like don't currently and I I wonder if it's not even PPC anymore, it's just like Google Ads.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:42.240
But I wonder if next year Google Ads will be like the resurged channel.
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.240
I I I think so.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:49.440
And so I'm trying to tell everybody to be running performance max campaigns, the AI and Max campaigns.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:49.759
Yeah.
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:56.160
Um, you know, we again we haven't had a lot of success specifically in the uh in the AI Max, but like that's just feeded down.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:57.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.200
Like you just gotta I I think that kind of makes sense.
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:07.440
Even if it's just like 500 or a thousand bucks a month or something, just to like feed it so that way when you're ready to activate, that's a good idea.
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:08.160
Yep.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.279
Because that's where it's going.
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:10.400
That's interesting.
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:11.759
They're gonna put it all in one system.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:13.440
I mean, meta that's what meta does.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:18.960
Meta has like one system, you use it and it distributes to Instagram and Facebook and other parts.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:19.759
It makes sense.
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.279
Like it's literally gonna be the same thing.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:22.559
Google's gonna have one spot.
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.240
This is where you go do paid.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.720
Um, because everything's gonna go to the AI search.
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:30.400
Yeah, like it's not gonna be your traditional search, they're gonna get rid of that completely.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.359
Yeah, if I'm guessing correctly.
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:34.480
And I have been wrong before.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.839
No, I think you're right.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.920
I think, yeah, this will be this will be interesting.
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:50.799
I I bet this opens up an opportunity because I think a lot of people have written off PPC because ROI for PPC is like four to five, whereas like LSA is like seven.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:57.200
Um, I mean, obviously some people do a lot better on PPC, but uh yeah, that'll be interesting.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.559
You know what's kind of um I was thinking about this the other day.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:05.039
There's my head is not fully like wrapped around this concept yet.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.440
So like what you're getting is uh half baked.
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:22.640
I I was thinking about um so I started working on this, we're working on this like data project, and we are I'm building like a dashboard for call center.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:23.519
Okay.
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:38.319
And I think this is back to like the state of marketing in 2026 and home service, and what I think is interesting marketing has always been like the most important thing.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.640
It's just I think more of the industry is starting to recognize it.
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:51.359
And as I'm thinking more and more about like how marketing scales, you guys should do like a fractional CMO thing or something like that.
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:52.160
I forgot about it.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:34:04.880
Because I I feel I feel like I dude, I feel like it is like how you drive your leads is like the thing.
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.240
It's like that's it.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:06.960
Yeah.
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:12.559
Yeah.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:16.639
And granted, you need that as well.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:24.239
Like you need someone who's just a specialist in inside of like SEO or Google Ads or whatever that is to get the most out of a said channel.
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.960
But um, I'm trying to figure that out.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:31.199
I think my point is like marketing is not just marketing anymore.
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:32.719
So that on this like dashboard.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.239
So I started off with a dashboard.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:34.480
Yeah.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:42.639
So like marketing is like, hey, we have to get the lead, but like, hey, we just spent a lot kind of a lot of time talking about speed to lead in like call center.
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:53.679
And I think what's happening is call center and marketing are becoming the same thing, at least for us, where it's like this is really the same problem, yeah.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:55.360
As far as like paid leads.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:01.440
Now, obviously, there's marketing like or there's organic and there's like branded, and those are different things, like totally received.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:17.199
But uh I think it becomes the same, and I think it becomes much more about the system of marketing and like how it ties into call center, and are we booking and like I mean, call center is really just like an extension of marketing, yeah.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:27.360
Yeah, is I I guess that that's like my half flush take, but I I'm thinking more and more about it the deeper those two get, because the scorecard is becoming the same.
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:36.079
Like as I'm building this like dashboard for call center, well, I'm like, well, the dashboard for call center is really the dashboard for marketing and vice versa.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:43.280
And you can't build one without the other because one gets lead, the other's books leads, and like it's kind of the same thing.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.079
Yeah.
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:44.880
Yeah.
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:46.320
We're we're rethinking.
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:51.440
I feel like I'm kind of rebuilding my entire delivery system right now with the way things are changing.
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:59.360
Um, but I'm rethinking everything, and I really want to figure out how I could be that fractional CMO uh for companies.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:00.639
I think that'd be interesting.
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.679
But there's I think it's just deeper.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:07.599
You like there, you have to be inside the call center.
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:09.440
Like you have to participate in the book.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.800
Well, it it's it's it's lead to job appointments.
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:18.079
Or alternatively, launch a call center or like booking system that books the leads for the client.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.480
I have thought about talking to quick staffers, Jack, if you're first hearing this.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:26.079
Like, like, like, hey, what if we owned that entire like iDrive leads?
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:30.400
There's a there's uh somebody out there that does that for med-ads, I think.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:32.000
That's what I want to do for med-ads.
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:32.800
Yeah, I think it makes sense.
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:42.800
Um, but like how how so one of the things I would have to get really good at is training because it is very difficult to have somebody come in, like I can.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:48.239
I can come into your system and look at your whole thing and go, like, yo, you don't actually have a leads problem, you have a sales problem.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:52.480
Don't spend more money on marketing agencies, go go go get your sales done right.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:53.920
Yeah, you don't have a process.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.960
You know, I I can do that, but how do I train somebody to do that?
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.719
And it it it's it is simple, if this, then that.
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:01.519
Yeah.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.719
But that's a that's a training problem.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.760
No, it totally is.
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:10.559
And so like it's something if I can figure out, I think is good, yeah, and it'll work.
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:16.480
Um, but I think it'll it'll come with a lot more trust from clients.
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:24.000
Um, so I think what it'll end up being is like clients that are already working with us, getting into them, yeah, yeah, uh, building those relationships.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:24.719
I have a handful.
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:31.440
I'm going to a couple of the clients this yeah uh this fall to start talking to them about like, hey, how can we be more?
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.119
You know, like how do we help you more?
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:39.519
Well, I think you almost need to, because I think like to my point, call center and marketing are becoming the same thing.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:45.360
And if like if I had a CMO, call center would report to CMO.
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:53.199
Yeah, and I think it call center used to be an operations function, and I actually don't think it is anymore.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.920
No, like I think it's a marketing function.
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:10.239
I'm I'm again still getting my head around this, but like the more we're like deploying and building and like driving improvement in call center and like booking in general, it's clear that this is now marketing.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:20.239
And and I think when you think about it like marketing, that's when back to our speed to lead, and like you have to you know, like reshape your call center and like have them be about low intent leads.
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.519
That's a marketing function.
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:29.199
Like you have you get your marketing team built around low intent leads and booking them and obsessed over that lead.
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.760
That is marketing, that's not like operations.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:36.719
Yeah, so I I yeah, I think I think the industries currently think about call centers wrong.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.239
Yeah, I agree.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.280
Yeah, John's John's hot take for uh what is today, 13.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:42.719
The entire industry is wrong.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:43.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.360
Yeah, that's the that's the thumbnail.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:46.480
The whole industry is wrong.
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:47.760
And they're gonna probably use that.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.719
Hey, I mean, industries have gotten things wrong before.
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:53.599
Like maybe this is the same.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.320
Well, I think it's just like the next adaptation, not even wrong.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.599
I just think it's the next adaptation.
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:01.679
It's like call center is no longer operations, call center is like very clearly marketing.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.800
Yeah, I I would even potentially call dispatch like a marketing function.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.079
Like, are we routing the lead to the right correct source?
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:09.599
Like yeah.
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:14.480
I think well, I mean, speed the lead is one thing, but like speed of marketing is gonna be another thing, right?
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.960
Like your ability to go out and test new things.
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:21.039
I've got a handful of clients that are on my like we'll call them the special list.
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:24.559
Um they just move faster, they move fast and I can test things.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:24.880
Yes.
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:28.960
So they've kind of given me permission to like just try something.
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:29.360
Yeah.
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.519
And so I'll go out there, I'll see something on on Reddit or X as a good idea.
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:36.000
I'll just like implement it and just see if that works.
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:36.480
Oh yeah.
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:37.360
And that's fun.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:38.559
That's fun for me.
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.719
Um we'll test and we'll see how it works.
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.119
And if it works, we implement it into their marketing system.
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:50.559
So um, I think like, you know, talk about the state of home home service marketing, it's becoming like how do you get creative?
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:50.960
Yes.
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:55.760
Like how do you find new opportunities that no one else is doing right now because you can move so fast.
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:56.480
Yeah.
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:01.920
I've wasted a lot of money on marketing agencies that made pretty reports but didn't make the phone ring.
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.159
And that's why we use Service Gailers at Wilson.
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:15.199
They work exclusively with home service companies and focus on what actually drives leads PPC, local service ads, SEO, Google Business Profile, and everything you need to get in front of homeowners who are ready to book.
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:20.079
The best part is that you know exactly where your money is going and what's producing real jobs.
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:27.679
If you're ready to stop guessing and start getting better leads, head to the link below, book a free strategy call, and let them know that owned and operated sends you.
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.519
We now know that we have to be fully meta ads and nothing else fast.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:32.880
Yeah.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:34.719
Yeah, it is interesting.
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:37.599
Um, it'll be fun to watch.
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.119
Uh it'll be fun to watch next year.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:41.679
Yeah.
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:43.840
I'm actually pretty excited about the Google thing now.
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.079
Because I do think that'll be.
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.280
I mean, you probably have like a year or two.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:55.039
Like if you start pushing faster, I mean, most of the I don't know.
00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:04.639
I don't know what percentage of companies are actively running um like PPC versus LSA versus whatever.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.119
I mean, we met somebody in the workshop today,$12 million business.
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:11.840
They've never turned on LSA, and I'm like, I know Peter is my favorite.
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:14.159
Peter Peter Coney outbreak.
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:14.639
Yeah, I know.
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:15.920
I called it out like 10 times.
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.679
I'm like, everyone throw up beat.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:19.840
Hey, hey, but he built that business.
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:21.920
That's hard mode.
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:22.400
Respect.
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:23.199
That is amazing.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:23.679
Respect.
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.280
I mean, he has this huge lover.
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.079
But it'll be interesting because I feel like if you can jump.
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:32.480
And that's why we're moving faster on the transition from LSA to Google ads.
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:37.679
It's like, okay, how can we be ready when everyone six months from now is still like figuring it out?
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.079
Because we want to be able to move fast.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:40.960
Yeah.
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.639
So yeah, I don't know though.
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:42.960
Yeah.
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:44.639
I have no idea what it's going to look like.
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:45.679
No one does.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:46.000
Yeah.
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:47.199
You know, we're all guessing.
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:49.199
Well, we're going to go look at Jesse's right after this.
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:51.760
There's some so there's some things that we all know.
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:52.079
Yeah.
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:53.440
Google's going to make its money.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:54.880
Google will make money.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:57.760
They're going to be really confident in that.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:58.880
And they're going to figure it out.
00:41:59.039 --> 00:41:59.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:01.280
And so like I would keep betting on that.
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.360
AI is going to be the future.
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:03.920
Yes.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.760
Um, reviews are going to matter more than almost anything else.
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.280
So, like, if you want to future proof yourself, continue to get reviews.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:11.679
Yeah.
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:13.440
Uh, and as many as possible.
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.559
Um, so yeah, like those are the things that we know.
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:21.280
Um, keep pushing into those and then start start getting that testing mindset.
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:28.239
I'm willing to spend X amount of dollars to add more channels because you got to defeat your elephant curve and then figure out like more markets, more service lines.
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.000
But one of the two has to happen.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:30.239
Yeah.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:32.880
It's the only way to like win over a long period of time.
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:34.159
Marketing 2026.
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:34.719
Let's go.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:36.000
Thanks everybody for tuning in.
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:37.679
Make sure you like and sub.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.760
Dude, marketing in 2026 is crazy.
00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:04.320
I personally spend 15k a month on meta ads.
00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:09.119
Meta doesn't work well for people that suck at speed to lead or have a good CSR.
00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:10.480
Do you miss any calls?
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:11.599
How fast do you pick up?
00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:12.960
Like we pick up a seven seconds.
00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:14.960
If you don't have that, don't spend money on meta.
00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:15.919
It's just a waste of money.
00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.600
Like there's a company that went from 10 million to 150 on the back of Meta.
00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:20.160
Just meta?
00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:20.719
Yes.
00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:22.079
Here's what I love about Meta.
00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:23.600
Anyone can go compete.
00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:26.000
Marketing is not just marketing anymore.
00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:29.120
Call center and marketing are becoming the same thing.
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.640
I will say the only other thing with Meta that I've seen is.
00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:46.240
I'm your host, John Wilson.
00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:49.759
On this show, we talk about the home service industry.
00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:51.520
We talk about how to buy businesses.
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:52.960
We talk about how to build them.
00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:54.479
We talk about my own business.
00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.719
And we also talk with my friends on what they're doing inside the industry.
00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:01.759
Today I'm rejoined by Sam Preston in person.
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:02.560
Live.
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:04.959
Live in live in studio.
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.959
Yeah, before we started filming, we were flexing in front of the camera to see how good we look.
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:17.040
So if you see us doing that, just ignore it.
00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:18.560
It's all steroids.
00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:19.280
Literally.
00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:21.760
So I'm a dad and a business owner.
00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:23.519
I don't type anything else about steroids.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:24.079
I run.
00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:24.640
Yeah, I run.
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Welcome back in person.
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This will be a ton of fun.
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We're here at the Breaking Five Workshop.
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And it's been good.
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I love this.
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I love this.
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Best one yet.
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It keeps getting better.
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It is good.
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Yeah.
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Well, one of the reasons why it's better than the last time is because it's bigger.
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Yeah, it's big.
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Yeah, we uh we had I think it's 35 people.
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And um I mean, literally the it the room is too small for it.
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Yeah.
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So because we had to cap it.
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We capped it uh like a month ago, and uh we're thinking about doing it, we're thinking about moving it to a different section of the warehouse um to like allow for like 40 or 50 or whatever because we had to shut off um tickets like uh yeah, like back in early August.
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Yeah, which is crazy.
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Like we've never had to do that before.
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I literally had some people in Akron that were prospects looking at you know doing marketing with us, and I was like, you should be at the breaking five.
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And I couldn't get tickets.
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Yeah, they're all sold out.
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I was like, my bad, you're like here, but you cannot come.
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I I think I think we'll be at moving on to a new room.
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Um just and not Mexico or like Yeah, well, there is like a Mexico, we're doing like a little Mexico retreat in November, so that'd be like you okay.
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Did I get an invite to this?
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I don't know.
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Well, it's like home service above 10 million.
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Are you above 10 million?
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No, no, unfortunately.
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I haven't been there yet.
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But yeah, the it Mexico would be fun.
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Yeah, Mexico.
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It's an episode.
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Um, so what are we talking about today?
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We're talking about like marketing in 2026.
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Dude, marketing in 2026 is crazy.
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It is insane.
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I don't know if I've said this every year.
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I I don't want to look.
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I don't want to look back at like transcripts and be like, for four years, John's complained about the state of marketing, but like I'm kind of complaining.
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I said this in the last podcast, but it's so true.
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Like four years ago, it was like this market is so volatile.
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Every six months something changes with Google and we have to change everything.
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Yeah, and now it's like every other day.
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Yeah, like if I go look up a YouTube video on how to do something, if it's older than a week old, I'm not watching it.
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Yeah, it's already outdated.
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That's crazy, and so it's just it's a different world.
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Yeah.
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I think this, I think marketing, um I I bring this up a lot.
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Have you and I ever talked about the elephant curve?
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Okay, so I think that this is not my concept.
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This is, I think his name's Jason Cohen.
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Um, and he was the founder of WP Engine, and he has a personal blog, and it's called something bare.
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I I don't remember.
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But if you if you search WP Engine uh elephant curve, like the blog, the article pulls up, and um I think everybody should read it.
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I think it's like a fundamental lesson in marketing.
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So the concept is marketing follows an elephant curve.
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So it goes from like if you trace an elephant, like if you're watching this on video, and an elephant's just standing, you know, you have the trunk, it goes up along the head, the back, and then down the tail.
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So it's like it's a bell curve, basically, but we're calling it the elephant curve.
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Uh and I think it's because of the pace of growth.
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So the idea behind the elephant curve is that when you add a new channel, you begin your curve.
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So you get fast results with a new channel.
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And those results, you go from like, hey, we didn't do meta ads and now we do meta ads, which by the way, like we should talk about meta ads because meta-ads are like I feel like the craziest thing that's come out of 2026.
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Um but uh so hey, we didn't do this channel, now we do this channel, and we added a net new 400 leads a month.
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Um, but like that doesn't just keep growing from zero to four hundred leads a month forever, it's not this exponential curve, it flattens out along the back of the elephant and then eventually declines because you have maximized that channel.
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Yeah, I think we all instinctively understand this.
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Um, and there's a few different ways to like combat it, but I I think that in 2026 and 2025, and like as this has gotten more competitive, we are just having to move iterate faster.
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Yeah.
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So I think five years ago, hey, we launched a new channel.
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Well, nobody's really using LSA yet.
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So like we had a lot of room to run on LSA before we hit our flat line.
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Well, now it's more competitive.
00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:07.040
Yeah.
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Uh so you just run out of room.
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I would say meta right now is like kind of an underutilized uh channel by most service businesses, us included.
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Um, so I think uh yeah, I think it the elephant curve idea is you add new channels, and then as you add more channels, you don't solve your problem.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:33.279
So if you add like when I mean channels, I mean like Google Ads is a channel, mailers is a channel, uh canvassing is a channel.
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Like these are all channels.
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Yep.
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But as you add more channels, you don't like solve the problem, it doesn't stay exponential.
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Each channel, it's just a bigger elephant curve.
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Yeah.
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So like you just stack the elephants on top of each other.
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So like, okay, Meta, we had huge results really fast and it stabled out.
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:47.839
Yep.
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Well, Google, we had huge results and it stapled out.
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Mailers, we had huge results and it stabled out.
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So our job is to find more channels after we've stabled out the previous one because it will stable out.
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And I think that in 2026, like my hot take is that we're just having to do that way faster than we used to because uh there's just more competitive.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:16.800
One of the best things that you can do as a home service operator is get in the right room with other great entrepreneurs.
00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:19.279
And that's what we are building with Catalyst.
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:26.319
Over the past few years, we've hosted six awesome events where we bring home service entrepreneurs from all over the country to our shop in Akron, Ohio.
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:30.800
We're taking everything that we've learned from those six events and we are putting it into something awesome.
00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:44.560
From May 3rd to the 5th, 100 plus home service entrepreneurs are coming to our shop in Akron, Ohio for three days where we're gonna be having tactical sessions, breakout conversations, and learning from some of the greatest operators in the industry.
00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:50.319
You're also just gonna be building relationships with people facing the exact same problems that you are every single day.
00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:53.040
This is going to be our strongest room of operators yet.
00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.519
Grab your seat for Catalyst below.
00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:59.360
Okay, it's uh I've never heard of that uh the elephant curve, but it like it makes sense.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.199
Um Yeah, I think it's instinctual.
00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:06.720
You know, like, hey, I'm gonna launch a new channel, we're gonna get a bunch of leads, but eventually, like that will steady out.
00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:10.240
Like, no one's like, oh, the LSA can go on forever and grow exponentially.
00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:11.759
I I think we all know it instinctively.
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:13.680
That's just like here's a study around it.
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.079
Yeah, I mean, at some point you only have so many people searching in your market on Google.
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:25.600
Yes, like you might even be in a really big market, it might be a huge search volume, but at some point you max that out and you have to go find other channels.
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Well, and the way to combat it is you've adding more channels doesn't necessarily defeat the problem.
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No.
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Because you will just have more elephant curves that you have to deal with.
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Yes.
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So what you have to do is you have to find a new customer segment.
00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.960
So for home service, that's like a new location.
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So, like, okay, well, we're, you know,$30 million or whatever, and I guess 40 now in northeast Ohio, but like we added Indiana and we're seven or eight or something out there.
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So new segment, new customers to introduce our services to new curve.
00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:10.720
Or you add new products or services, which uh is also like a fair way to do it.
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So, like, hey, you begin your curve, you get more people in the system, and then hey, that channel works.
00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:19.600
So let's introduce electric HVAC, whatever.
00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:35.919
Uh, but those are the two ways to like defeat the problem and continue exponential growth is you stack more channels, yes, but then you also have to introduce uh like net new customers, like new market or new product service, or both.
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How do you so inside of uh a certain market?
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Let's say I don't want to actually want to grow, like I don't want to go to Indiana, like I like my local area, right?
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Like Indiana's great.
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No, no, no offense, no offense.
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Indiana is great.
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Like, I'm sure it's great.
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Yeah.
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Um, but like so you you're saying like the way you would just keep growing inside that same market is to add other product, add other services, or add another channel that's not in the same boat as the current, you know, like LSA to Google Ads, it's literally the same thing.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.600
Instinctually, I think we all understand this.
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:20.000
Hey, in order to grow, I have to grow horizontal, uh, which is like breadth of service, or vertical, which is more locations of plumbing only.
00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:26.399
Like rotor, are you gonna be a rotor router where you have, I don't even know, 500 locations of plumbing.
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:33.039
Um and then are you gonna be neighborly or something where it's like a bunch of different franchises?
00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.840
Now, Roto Rooter is a good example because they ended up doing both.
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Like they hit maturity, they have I don't even know how many locations, and then they added water restoration.
00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:44.399
So then they did the second part of that, which is new service.
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Interesting.
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But yeah, I think we all know that like you can only do like the growth model is more locations or more services.
00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:51.279
Yeah.
00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:55.519
Uh for a long time we did more services, so we just like continued to drive the same.
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I think the issue is it complicates the business.
00:10:58.799 --> 00:10:59.679
Why is that?
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:02.960
Like HVAC is a totally different business than plumbing.
00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:03.519
Yeah.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:09.840
Um, I think that like rotor router is is like my key example, or Zoom drain or something like that.
00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:16.399
Like doing one service and just doing it at scale is a simpler business model to run.
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:17.519
Yeah, I think.
00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:18.159
Oh yeah.
00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:21.039
Than like seven service lines under one roof.
00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:30.960
I mean, we're running that right now for my own business where we've done SEO for so long, and that is very much website and content and backlinks and all that kind of jazz.
00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.840
And now socials is starting to play into affecting your SEO.
00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:36.159
Yeah.
00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:43.360
And so when we say, like, oh, we do SEO for you, but we don't do like one of the major functionalities that's gonna make a difference, like that hurts.
00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:51.519
And so I'm like, okay, well, how do I how do I go win in posting on Instagram and Facebook, which we've avoided on purpose for years?
00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:56.399
Um, and so trying to figure that out as a new service that we're organic.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:58.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:00.240
Yeah, it's interesting.
00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:18.799
Um so okay, that was like my lecture on uh elephant curves, but the state of marketing of 2026 is I think it has just accelerated the need to add channels and potentially accelerated the need to choose one of those two options.
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.200
Yeah.
00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:22.159
Now that could also just be my perspective from my own business.
00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:31.759
And like obviously I'm not running like I'm running a larger business in the trades, so maybe that's I don't know, maybe that's tainting it.
00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:39.519
Yeah, I mean, I think uh the most the majority of businesses are you know probably sub-five uh that are trying to grow.
00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:48.559
And I think that if you are in that spot, adding a new service is much harder than just going deeper into that current service.
00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.159
And so I think that's where you start.
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.759
I actually think it's the wrong decision to add a service below five.
00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:54.399
I think so.
00:12:54.559 --> 00:13:00.399
I think that um I think that yeah, my hot take is I think it's the wrong decision.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:10.320
I I can point to a few awesome examples of like hyper growth companies that are single trade, um, and they're just doing a great job.
00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:21.919
And like I've said this on the years for podcast uh on this four years on this podcast, but if I could go back, I would have been plumbing only to like 40 million dollars and then introduced HVAC and then introduced electric.
00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:24.879
Like we love HVAC and Electric, and our teams are awesome.
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:31.759
Yeah, but it is easier to run and scale one business and then add more onto it once you have infrastructure.
00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.120
I mean, now it doesn't matter, like we're an at scale business, but it would have been easier growing to do that just as a solo.
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:38.559
Uh CallDad did that.
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:40.000
Yeah, totally HVAC.
00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:41.519
Yeah, they just introduced plumbing.
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.279
So like they're at 10 locations.
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:53.360
Uh so it's similar to Rotorooter, and they're at 10 locations, and all HVAC, they like maximized breadth, not maximized, but 10 locations is a lot.
00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:55.360
Like I mean, we're only at six or something.
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:57.279
And then they added plumbing.
00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:57.840
Yep.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.919
Service maxing, that's what we can call it.
00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:00.320
Yeah.
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:01.919
I like that.
00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:02.799
I like that.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:04.879
Um Meta is wild.
00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:07.200
I mean, back to state, but meta is kind of wild.
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:08.960
Meta is super interesting, right?
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:10.240
Meta is really interesting.
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.399
It is, I keep running into these businesses.
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:28.480
Meta was written off, which honestly, like, I I think I think that like 2025 and 2026, marketing for like me has mainly just been like re-exploring things that I wrote off five years ago.
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:33.279
Because like it's like, you know, five years ago, I was like, ah, this fucking doesn't work.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:37.600
Like, like uh, I feel like Angie's List or Meta, like you can sort of pick one.
00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:44.080
Dude, Angie's List is literally our highest ROI channel and it's not close, and it is so annoying.
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.759
It is so annoying because for years I was like, fuck the shit.
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:50.480
It's the best, like it is our best channel.
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.159
I meet so many people that say that.
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:53.840
I mean just as many people that hate it.
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:54.320
Crazy.
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.720
But like every single time we're talking to a prospect, I'm talking like, hey, what are your lead partners?
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:00.000
Have you tried Angie's?
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:00.720
And they go, No.
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:07.679
I'm like, please go try it because I don't know if it's in your market, but so many people count it as their best lead source.
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.559
It's crazy.
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:09.679
It's crazy.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.240
I mean, for years, like, I don't know.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:28.960
So anyway, so 2025 and 2026 is just like, it's not even us being creative or like inventing, you know, I feel like we went through a few years where we were like ahead of the curve, and like and like, I mean, in a lot of ways, I still think we are, but like a lot of 25 and 26 was just be like, hey, you know that thing that we hated five years ago?
00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.679
Like, maybe we should just look at it again, see what we think.
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.919
Yeah, oh my god, it worked.
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.879
Yeah, but meta ads has been uh similar.
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.120
We have not had the same results yet.
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:42.159
We did it with like drains, we're trying it with drains right now.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:52.639
Yeah, but like I'm seeing companies close to like high eight figures or nine figures that meta is like what Google was to us three years ago.
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.559
It is their dominant channel, yeah, which is mind-boggling to me.
00:15:58.799 --> 00:15:59.360
Yeah.
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:05.200
I uh we're I'm I'm I'm like redesigning our meta package right now.
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:14.879
Um, meta doesn't work well for people that suck at speed to lead or have a good CSR, or I would also say have a premium price.
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:16.080
Premium price.
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:26.240
What the bit that is the biggest thing that I see successful again, we're not having this experience, so like I'm not, you know, this is me talking from just like here's what I see.
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.399
Um if you are premium priced, you will struggle.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:38.799
Like you need you can be premium price, but you need a like uh you need a low, low option.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:39.120
Yeah.
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.039
Because Meta is just a different, it is a low intent channel.
00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.000
You can't, you know, you don't you're not getting no heats.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.480
You're getting people bidding five contractors at a time to like do a repair.
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:55.440
Uh so it's a tremendous amount of leads, but like it's it's cheap.
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.120
Yeah, like the consumer is cheap.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:57.919
Yeah.
00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:05.920
Um, so you have to be good at speed the lead because you are competing so well, and you have to good at have a good talented CSR uh team.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:06.640
Totally.
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:13.759
Uh which we could we would have never it's the same with Angie, we would have never uh been able to do.
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:15.519
I think that's why it didn't work for us in the first place.
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:35.039
I think all of these lead channels in 2025 we rebuilt our speed delete system, yeah, which part of it's software, um, and like Evoka's doing that, but then a lot of it is like our our behavior, like what you're saying right now, like our call center behavior.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.599
Because speed delete is uh yeah, it's hard to get right, it's important.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:50.640
But like once you do it, once you once you have the technology, and most importantly, the people on top of the technology to like make it better, that's when it works.
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.640
And then any lead channel works.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.960
That's what we found where it's like, hey, now we have this system that we didn't have five years ago.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:03.279
Yeah, like it's not because Angie got better, Angie was probably the same, it's because we got better, yeah, and now it works for us.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.079
Yeah, but it's the same with like yeah, meta leads.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.880
Like, if you get 10 leads, maybe you only book two.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:10.880
Yeah, so you gotta sell one, you know.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.240
Well, uh for the audience, because I get this question a lot.
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:19.279
Yeah, and I feel like people don't actually understand when we talk about speed of lead, like what does that mean?
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:19.759
Yeah, okay.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.279
Because I'll go, hey, you need to have good speed of lead, and they'll go, Oh, yeah, I've got good speed of lead.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.319
It's like, okay, hold on.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:24.880
What do you mean?
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.640
Yes, oh, I answer the phone quickly when someone calls.
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:29.039
Yes.
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:31.759
I'm like, okay, great, but like how many rings?
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:32.160
Yeah.
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:39.119
Like if someone submits a form or is like reaching out via Angie's list, how quickly do you like is it seven seconds?
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:39.920
Is it 30?
00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:45.920
Like, so when some when you say like you have to have good speed lead, yes, define it to me like I'm a five-year-old and don't remember.
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:47.279
Yeah, no, that that's a good point.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.039
Because I I hear this a lot too.
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:50.160
It's like, well, we respond.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.480
And I'm just like, well, shit.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:53.759
Where are you?
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.200
Can I compete with you?
00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:00.400
Um, yeah, so we speed delete is when you get a call.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.319
Do you do you miss any calls?
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.000
How fast do you pick up?
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:05.359
Like we pick up at seven seconds.
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.200
Like it's been seven seconds for years.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:08.079
We watch it every week.
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:09.119
Like seven seconds.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:09.359
Yeah.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.119
I'm anal about it.
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:12.799
And uh seven seconds.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:17.440
Um so we pick up at seven seconds, and uh, so that's phone calls in.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:27.119
But the bigger you get and the more like you have leads outside of phone calls, that's actually where I think it gets a little bit more complicated because suddenly you're watching like contact instead of call.
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:27.599
Yeah.
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:40.880
And you know, if we get, I don't know, 500 phone call leads in a week in uh Akron, we might get 2,000 written leads.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.119
Yeah, like it is a huge amount.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.000
Um, so I I think that's the complicated one.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:57.839
So uh so what the way that works is it's like a technology uh that all of the leads go into, you immediately text them, like it's automatic, which I think is the important part is the automatic contact.
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:58.319
Yeah.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:22.400
Um and then once there's uh automatic contact, like continuing it into a into a booking, yes, and adding the human being, uh so like as an example for like low intent lead sources like Angie's Meta Modernized, like anyone that's like, here's a lead that's not good Google LSA, um a 30% book rate is considered good.
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.160
Yeah, so three out of ten, which is not high.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:39.759
And uh what we found is the automated text gets you from like zero to fifteen, twenty percent book rate on those contacts.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:46.079
The trained CSR that you're talking about, like once you contact, if they don't respond back, like who's hounding them?
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.440
How do you how do you add calls?
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.319
How do you add emails?
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.400
Like, how do you book that lead like you paid for it?
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.839
That's what gets you to 30 and above book rate.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:54.400
Yep.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.440
So so I love this.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:56.480
Okay, speed to lead.
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:01.200
When we say speed to lead, we mean are you answering the phone phone within seven seconds?
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:03.440
Um, and then are you missing any calls?
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.319
Are you missing any calls?
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.319
Do you have technology to pick up calls at night?
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.599
Some people call 11 p.m.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.359
Like what's your overflow?
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:18.960
And then when uh after your initial contact, how often you are reaching out to that person via SMS, phone call, and email?
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.519
Yeah.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.279
How many times do you do it on the first day?
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:21.839
Yeah.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:23.039
I'm asking.
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:23.680
Like how many?
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:25.200
Like do you read seven times?
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:26.480
Um, it's a lot.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:26.880
Yeah.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:32.160
I mean, it uh I mean there's some companies that do like 30 times in that first week if you don't book.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:32.640
Yeah.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:34.720
So that's that is speed delete.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:35.200
Yeah.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:36.079
I like that.
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:36.720
Yeah.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:38.480
Yeah, it it's it's a system.
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:43.200
And I think um I've said this so much, but probably a couple years ago.
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:57.839
In plumbing HVAC electric, we are we are such a unique industry versus um windows as an example, or bathroom models, or uh whatever else.
00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.599
So as you're thinking about your call.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.359
Center and how to handle leads, you should almost never be studying larger plumbing HVAC electric contractors.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:17.599
Uh, because it is not complicated to get big in plumbing HVAC electric on broken furnaces and broken water heaters.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.079
No.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.839
It's like it's kind of straightforward.
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:21.119
That's how the industry works.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:31.920
When you start adding low intent lead sources, like bathroom models has to, or Windows has to, where they have to get a lead and really like own that lead, control it, sell it.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.200
It's a it's a different level of maniacal.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:37.279
Um it was pretty humbling.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:42.079
When we first started looking into our speed to lead, we talked to a guy who's doing epoxy garage floors.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:43.680
It was like two million dollars.
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:50.480
This guy knew more about his lead funnel than we did, and we were a$25 million business.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.039
And he was he was running circles around me.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:53.759
Let's go.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.400
And he was like growing the business purely on meta.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:58.799
And I was like, I don't even think we could do that right now.
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.720
Yeah, because we're not locked in the same way that this guy is locked in.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.200
Yeah.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:04.720
So yeah, it was really interesting.
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:15.680
So yeah, yeah, you don't study other plumbing HVAC electric companies, you study companies that have that live or die by low intent leads, which plumbing electric lives or dies by high intent leads.
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:15.920
Yeah.
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:18.240
So yeah, you gotta you gotta study everyone else.
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:19.359
I love that.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.680
So gotta be good at speed to lead in order for Meta to work.
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:29.680
And then you have to be good at turning those leads into appointments with a talented CSR team.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:30.240
Yes.
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.480
Um, and I think people get that mixed up a lot.
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.359
They think Well, you don't have to in plumbing HVAC.
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:47.119
I think that's like your CSR team is trained from day one to book high-intent leads that are phone calls.
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:53.519
When you add low intent non-phone calls, it is a totally different call center.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.559
Like completely different.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:06.240
I mean, we had to rebuild our call center last year completely around this idea because we were not thriving because we were building a company like how this used to work.
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:06.720
Okay.
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:12.079
So yeah, I think I think to me it makes total sense that people aren't good at it because like we weren't good at it.
00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:12.559
Yeah.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:14.559
I mean, now I think we're really good at it.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:15.359
Now you're good at it.
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:16.240
Yeah, it's a strength.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:17.839
Yeah, it is cool.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:18.480
I love that.
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:18.960
Yeah.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:19.759
I love that.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.240
Yeah.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:20.960
Okay.
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:22.480
All right, so so back to meta.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.119
Yeah.
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.519
So you're seeing meta pop.
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:28.720
Meta's working so well across the board.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:34.640
Uh again, not for people that suck at speed of leads and have cause if you don't have that, don't spend money on meta.
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.839
It's just a waste of money.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:46.480
But if you can figure those two things out and you already have the system in place, you've been running, you're growing, you're looking for that second channel, it's a great place to be.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:46.960
Yeah.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.279
Yeah.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:47.920
Yeah.
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:55.680
Well, I keep I keep seeing these um, I keep seeing these HVAC companies specifically growing on meta.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:08.160
And it is it's fascinating to watch because I think um it takes a lot of work, and I think that's why people aren't very good at it.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:13.119
But once you yeah, once you like put in the fundamentals, it's crazy.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:20.720
Like there's a company that went from 10 million to 150 out in uh well, I'm not gonna say where, but like on the back of Meta.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:21.839
Just meta?
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:23.200
Yes.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:26.000
Like, yes.
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.440
It's like the yard signs guy.
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.680
I'm like, what I know, how did you do that?
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:30.480
That's the thing.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.640
When I saw that, I was like, what the fuck?
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.079
And then there's another company, uh, top line.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.480
I think they talk pretty publicly about this.
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:46.160
Um, and I I'm pretty sure they've got because I see their trucks like sort of bebop around, but I think they're out of Pittsburgh or something like that.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.160
Um I don't know how big they are now, 40 or 50 or 60 or something.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.359
But uh almost exclusively meta is my understanding.
00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:53.759
Yeah.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:01.279
But what they what they have is like it's a very low ticket item, I believe lower gross margin, but I've never seen their financial, so I don't know.
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:03.119
Yeah, lower gross margin.
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:10.319
And um and I think that's what you need, and then like an obsessive system over like handling those leads.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:24.799
But you know, the you know, if you're a retail, like if you're a retail HVAC shop, your average ticket might be like 12 to 14,000, but the people succeeding on Meta are installing nine to ten thousand dollar full systems.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:25.440
Got it.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:49.680
So like it is a difference, it's a total it's a different type of sales, which I also think that's why HVAC current HVAC companies don't really know how to deal with it because they're used to like going up, up, up, and this is like it's it's meta, it's like kind of a race to the bottom, but it is a unique amount of volume, it's half of the global population, it's a unique amount of volume.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.559
Here's what I love about Meta is that anyone can go compete.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.400
It's not like Google Business Profile where people have been doing this for 20 years.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:58.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.880
They already have 20,000 reviews, and you're just like, man, how do I go beat that?
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:08.079
It's not like Google Ads, where again, like people, you know, well, and the big companies aren't good at it.
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:08.799
They suck.
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:09.440
They're not.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:16.960
Well, and the thing that's I like the hyper growers today are meta ads hyper growers.
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:30.880
Like that that's the thing that's been blowing my mind for the past like six to twelve months is all the companies that I see like can still clipping 30% year over year growth in the high eight figures or low nine figures, yeah, are driven by meta.
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:31.519
Yeah.
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.079
Which like that's crazy.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:41.920
Whereas like when you look at the sort of I'll call them legacy hundred million dollar businesses, like they were built like how Wilson was built.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.160
Yeah.
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:46.319
Meta, or not Meta, but like Google, leadags, mailers.
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:46.960
Yeah.
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:48.799
Mailers is actually crazy too.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.160
I'm seeing a lot of mailers right now.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:50.559
Really?
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:51.039
Yeah.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:52.559
Oh my gosh.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:53.119
Yeah.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:02.319
Yeah, like meta and mailers is like it's uh but like the the hyper growers, the guys growing like 20 or 30 percent or more.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:09.920
Um, I'm saying 20 or 30 percent, like because these are like already 50 million dollar businesses, you know, that's a lot for a 50 million dollar business.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:21.599
Yeah, I will say the only other thing with Meta that I've seen is uh clients can get in their own way because of how much creative that actually needs to be created to make it work.
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:22.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:29.920
And I think the idea behind is like, oh, I'm just gonna do a couple different um campaigns, and it just gets slowed down and it doesn't work as well.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:40.880
Um, and so uh having that creative team just allowed to go and test and I think that's what our benefit is like for we're doing it for drains right now.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:41.279
Yeah.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.599
And like we have our own film team.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:52.000
And like I I think it would be I also think that's another reason like it never worked before is we didn't have our own yeah, like we just couldn't do it.
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:52.480
Yeah.
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.880
I personally spend 15k a month on med ads and it works well.
00:28:56.960 --> 00:28:57.920
So yeah.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.279
Um like for the for your home service business.
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:02.160
Yeah.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.680
And so we like we like Facebook over here.
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:08.720
Yeah, Facebook's crazy.
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.279
All right, so Facebook mailers, what else we got?
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.400
Um, Google Ads is super interesting.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.799
I'm like, I'm so fascinated.
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.759
I have not we're in the middle of our switch.
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:21.839
So I don't have an opinion yet.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:22.240
Okay.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.440
What should I expect?
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:23.920
Okay.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:30.880
So just for context, LSA is this moving from the LSA platform, it's being merged into Google Ads.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.279
Yep.
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:36.079
Which I can see either being awesome or a shit show, but I doesn't seem like it'll be neutral.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.160
It is gonna be both for sure.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:38.720
Perfect.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:39.200
For sure.
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:50.799
So, yeah, so we so we like preempted it because like the moment we got announced, we're just like, we're doing this so we can control the timing because Google will eventually just sunset it and then we won't have an option at all.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:53.680
So we're just gonna do it and start so we can control our timing.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.960
Which none of our clients' accounts are actually inside of Google Ads yet.
00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:57.680
It's all right.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.279
Ours went live this week.
00:29:59.599 --> 00:29:59.920
Did it?
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.119
None of I like checked this because I wanted to make sure I should.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:04.960
Yeah, we should.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:14.559
Um I got an email from Google this morning that they're now connecting uh YouTube profiles with Google Ads accounts.
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.240
Oh, that's interesting.
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:22.880
So um we're running, so last year we ran a bunch of P Max uh campaigns.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:24.640
Didn't work this year.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:26.960
I mean, it works sometimes, sometimes it didn't.
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.920
This year, P Max is popping off.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:38.720
And if you look into what's working in PMAX, it's search, which is what search has always been the main driver.
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:39.119
Yeah.
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:47.519
So if I'm looking in my little crystal ball, I'm looking into the future, like they're gonna like I think they're gonna get rid of traditional search.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.759
I thought they were I thought they were turning it into like chat-based in November, I thought.
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.160
I'm I think they're getting rid of it all, and it's all going into P max.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.200
Like, what's the biggest complaint that you ever heard about?
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.599
Um, or that you heard the most often about LSA?
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:04.400
I don't even know.
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:05.599
Like inconsistent.
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:07.759
I can't spend my entire budget.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.039
Oh, that is right.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.480
That is, yes, that is right.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.880
Who that's Google's biggest problem.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:13.440
Yes.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:15.440
Is they're not spending your entire budget.
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:16.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:17.440
So what are they gonna do?
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.119
They're gonna pull that into P Max.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.799
Yeah, that'll be interesting.
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:22.160
You know, I think so.
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.480
We spent the Okay, I like this a lot.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:35.519
So we spent the first half of the episode talking about like all the channels that we sort of like don't currently and I I wonder if it's not even PPC anymore, it's just like Google Ads.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:42.240
But I wonder if next year Google Ads will be like the resurged channel.
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.240
I I I think so.
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:49.440
And so I'm trying to tell everybody to be running performance max campaigns, the AI and Max campaigns.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:49.759
Yeah.
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:56.160
Um, you know, we again we haven't had a lot of success specifically in the uh in the AI Max, but like that's just feeded down.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:57.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:59.200
Like you just gotta I I think that kind of makes sense.
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:07.440
Even if it's just like 500 or a thousand bucks a month or something, just to like feed it so that way when you're ready to activate, that's a good idea.
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:08.160
Yep.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.279
Because that's where it's going.
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:10.400
That's interesting.
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:11.759
They're gonna put it all in one system.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:13.440
I mean, meta that's what meta does.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:18.960
Meta has like one system, you use it and it distributes to Instagram and Facebook and other parts.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:19.759
It makes sense.
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.279
Like it's literally gonna be the same thing.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:22.559
Google's gonna have one spot.
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.240
This is where you go do paid.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:26.720
Um, because everything's gonna go to the AI search.
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:30.400
Yeah, like it's not gonna be your traditional search, they're gonna get rid of that completely.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.359
Yeah, if I'm guessing correctly.
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:34.480
And I have been wrong before.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.839
No, I think you're right.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.920
I think, yeah, this will be this will be interesting.
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:50.799
I I bet this opens up an opportunity because I think a lot of people have written off PPC because ROI for PPC is like four to five, whereas like LSA is like seven.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:57.200
Um, I mean, obviously some people do a lot better on PPC, but uh yeah, that'll be interesting.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.559
You know what's kind of um I was thinking about this the other day.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:05.039
There's my head is not fully like wrapped around this concept yet.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.440
So like what you're getting is uh half baked.
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:22.640
I I was thinking about um so I started working on this, we're working on this like data project, and we are I'm building like a dashboard for call center.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:23.519
Okay.
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:38.319
And I think this is back to like the state of marketing in 2026 and home service, and what I think is interesting marketing has always been like the most important thing.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.640
It's just I think more of the industry is starting to recognize it.
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:51.359
And as I'm thinking more and more about like how marketing scales, you guys should do like a fractional CMO thing or something like that.
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:52.160
I forgot about it.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:34:04.880
Because I I feel I feel like I dude, I feel like it is like how you drive your leads is like the thing.
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.240
It's like that's it.
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:06.960
Yeah.
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:12.559
Yeah.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:16.639
And granted, you need that as well.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:24.239
Like you need someone who's just a specialist in inside of like SEO or Google Ads or whatever that is to get the most out of a said channel.
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.960
But um, I'm trying to figure that out.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:31.199
I think my point is like marketing is not just marketing anymore.
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:32.719
So that on this like dashboard.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.239
So I started off with a dashboard.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:34.480
Yeah.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:42.639
So like marketing is like, hey, we have to get the lead, but like, hey, we just spent a lot kind of a lot of time talking about speed to lead in like call center.
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:53.679
And I think what's happening is call center and marketing are becoming the same thing, at least for us, where it's like this is really the same problem, yeah.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:55.360
As far as like paid leads.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:01.440
Now, obviously, there's marketing like or there's organic and there's like branded, and those are different things, like totally received.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:17.199
But uh I think it becomes the same, and I think it becomes much more about the system of marketing and like how it ties into call center, and are we booking and like I mean, call center is really just like an extension of marketing, yeah.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:27.360
Yeah, is I I guess that that's like my half flush take, but I I'm thinking more and more about it the deeper those two get, because the scorecard is becoming the same.
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:36.079
Like as I'm building this like dashboard for call center, well, I'm like, well, the dashboard for call center is really the dashboard for marketing and vice versa.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:43.280
And you can't build one without the other because one gets lead, the other's books leads, and like it's kind of the same thing.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:44.079
Yeah.
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:44.880
Yeah.
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:46.320
We're we're rethinking.
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:51.440
I feel like I'm kind of rebuilding my entire delivery system right now with the way things are changing.
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:59.360
Um, but I'm rethinking everything, and I really want to figure out how I could be that fractional CMO uh for companies.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:00.639
I think that'd be interesting.
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.679
But there's I think it's just deeper.
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:07.599
You like there, you have to be inside the call center.
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:09.440
Like you have to participate in the book.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.800
Well, it it's it's it's lead to job appointments.
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:18.079
Or alternatively, launch a call center or like booking system that books the leads for the client.
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.480
I have thought about talking to quick staffers, Jack, if you're first hearing this.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:26.079
Like, like, like, hey, what if we owned that entire like iDrive leads?
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:30.400
There's a there's uh somebody out there that does that for med-ads, I think.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:32.000
That's what I want to do for med-ads.
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:32.800
Yeah, I think it makes sense.
00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:42.800
Um, but like how how so one of the things I would have to get really good at is training because it is very difficult to have somebody come in, like I can.
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:48.239
I can come into your system and look at your whole thing and go, like, yo, you don't actually have a leads problem, you have a sales problem.
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:52.480
Don't spend more money on marketing agencies, go go go get your sales done right.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:53.920
Yeah, you don't have a process.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.960
You know, I I can do that, but how do I train somebody to do that?
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.719
And it it it's it is simple, if this, then that.
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:01.519
Yeah.
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.719
But that's a that's a training problem.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.760
No, it totally is.
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:10.559
And so like it's something if I can figure out, I think is good, yeah, and it'll work.
00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:16.480
Um, but I think it'll it'll come with a lot more trust from clients.
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:24.000
Um, so I think what it'll end up being is like clients that are already working with us, getting into them, yeah, yeah, uh, building those relationships.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:24.719
I have a handful.
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:31.440
I'm going to a couple of the clients this yeah uh this fall to start talking to them about like, hey, how can we be more?
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.119
You know, like how do we help you more?
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:39.519
Well, I think you almost need to, because I think like to my point, call center and marketing are becoming the same thing.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:45.360
And if like if I had a CMO, call center would report to CMO.
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:53.199
Yeah, and I think it call center used to be an operations function, and I actually don't think it is anymore.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:55.920
No, like I think it's a marketing function.
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:10.239
I'm I'm again still getting my head around this, but like the more we're like deploying and building and like driving improvement in call center and like booking in general, it's clear that this is now marketing.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:20.239
And and I think when you think about it like marketing, that's when back to our speed to lead, and like you have to you know, like reshape your call center and like have them be about low intent leads.
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.519
That's a marketing function.
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:29.199
Like you have you get your marketing team built around low intent leads and booking them and obsessed over that lead.
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.760
That is marketing, that's not like operations.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:36.719
Yeah, so I I yeah, I think I think the industries currently think about call centers wrong.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:38.239
Yeah, I agree.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.280
Yeah, John's John's hot take for uh what is today, 13.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:42.719
The entire industry is wrong.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:43.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.360
Yeah, that's the that's the thumbnail.
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:46.480
The whole industry is wrong.
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:47.760
And they're gonna probably use that.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.719
Hey, I mean, industries have gotten things wrong before.
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:53.599
Like maybe this is the same.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.320
Well, I think it's just like the next adaptation, not even wrong.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.599
I just think it's the next adaptation.
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:01.679
It's like call center is no longer operations, call center is like very clearly marketing.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.800
Yeah, I I would even potentially call dispatch like a marketing function.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.079
Like, are we routing the lead to the right correct source?
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:09.599
Like yeah.
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:14.480
I think well, I mean, speed the lead is one thing, but like speed of marketing is gonna be another thing, right?
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:16.960
Like your ability to go out and test new things.
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:21.039
I've got a handful of clients that are on my like we'll call them the special list.
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:24.559
Um they just move faster, they move fast and I can test things.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:24.880
Yes.
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:28.960
So they've kind of given me permission to like just try something.
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:29.360
Yeah.
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.519
And so I'll go out there, I'll see something on on Reddit or X as a good idea.
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:36.000
I'll just like implement it and just see if that works.
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:36.480
Oh yeah.
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:37.360
And that's fun.
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:38.559
That's fun for me.
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.719
Um we'll test and we'll see how it works.
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.119
And if it works, we implement it into their marketing system.
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:50.559
So um, I think like, you know, talk about the state of home home service marketing, it's becoming like how do you get creative?
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:50.960
Yes.
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:55.760
Like how do you find new opportunities that no one else is doing right now because you can move so fast.
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:56.480
Yeah.
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:01.920
I've wasted a lot of money on marketing agencies that made pretty reports but didn't make the phone ring.
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.159
And that's why we use Service Gailers at Wilson.
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:15.199
They work exclusively with home service companies and focus on what actually drives leads PPC, local service ads, SEO, Google Business Profile, and everything you need to get in front of homeowners who are ready to book.
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:20.079
The best part is that you know exactly where your money is going and what's producing real jobs.
00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:27.679
If you're ready to stop guessing and start getting better leads, head to the link below, book a free strategy call, and let them know that owned and operated sends you.
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.519
We now know that we have to be fully meta ads and nothing else fast.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:32.880
Yeah.
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:34.719
Yeah, it is interesting.
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:37.599
Um, it'll be fun to watch.
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.119
Uh it'll be fun to watch next year.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:41.679
Yeah.
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:43.840
I'm actually pretty excited about the Google thing now.
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.079
Because I do think that'll be.
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.280
I mean, you probably have like a year or two.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:55.039
Like if you start pushing faster, I mean, most of the I don't know.
00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:04.639
I don't know what percentage of companies are actively running um like PPC versus LSA versus whatever.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:07.119
I mean, we met somebody in the workshop today,$12 million business.
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:11.840
They've never turned on LSA, and I'm like, I know Peter is my favorite.
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:14.159
Peter Peter Coney outbreak.
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:14.639
Yeah, I know.
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:15.920
I called it out like 10 times.
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.679
I'm like, everyone throw up beat.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:19.840
Hey, hey, but he built that business.
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:21.920
That's hard mode.
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:22.400
Respect.
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:23.199
That is amazing.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:23.679
Respect.
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.280
I mean, he has this huge lover.
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:28.079
But it'll be interesting because I feel like if you can jump.
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:32.480
And that's why we're moving faster on the transition from LSA to Google ads.
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:37.679
It's like, okay, how can we be ready when everyone six months from now is still like figuring it out?
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.079
Because we want to be able to move fast.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:40.960
Yeah.
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.639
So yeah, I don't know though.
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:42.960
Yeah.
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:44.639
I have no idea what it's going to look like.
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:45.679
No one does.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:46.000
Yeah.
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:47.199
You know, we're all guessing.
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:49.199
Well, we're going to go look at Jesse's right after this.
00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:51.760
There's some so there's some things that we all know.
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:52.079
Yeah.
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:53.440
Google's going to make its money.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:54.880
Google will make money.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:57.760
They're going to be really confident in that.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:41:58.880
And they're going to figure it out.
00:41:59.039 --> 00:41:59.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:01.280
And so like I would keep betting on that.
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.360
AI is going to be the future.
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:03.920
Yes.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.760
Um, reviews are going to matter more than almost anything else.
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.280
So, like, if you want to future proof yourself, continue to get reviews.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:11.679
Yeah.
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:13.440
Uh, and as many as possible.
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.559
Um, so yeah, like those are the things that we know.
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:21.280
Um, keep pushing into those and then start start getting that testing mindset.
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:28.239
I'm willing to spend X amount of dollars to add more channels because you got to defeat your elephant curve and then figure out like more markets, more service lines.
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.000
But one of the two has to happen.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:30.239
Yeah.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:32.880
It's the only way to like win over a long period of time.
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:34.159
Marketing 2026.
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:34.719
Let's go.
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:36.000
Thanks everybody for tuning in.
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:37.679
Make sure you like and sub.
