ABOUT THIS EPISODE
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Roth IRAs and Roth 401(k)s share a first name and the same tax-free growth, but almost every rule that governs them is different — and picking the wrong one for your next dollar can cost you real money. Wealth lawyer and real estate investor Mat Sorensen breaks down the five biggest differences between these accounts and the funding order that lets you capture the best of both.
What the five differences reveal:
• Why high-income earners are phased out of Roth IRA contributions at $153,000 single or $242,000 married filing joint
• How the Roth 401(k) allows $24,500 in 2026 versus $7,500 in a Roth IRA, plus catch-up and super catch-up amounts
• Why an employer match can double your contribution on day one and should always be captured first
• How Roth IRA contributions can come out any time tax- and penalty-free while Roth 401(k) dollars stay locked until 59½
• When a 401(k) participant loan of half the balance up to $50,000 becomes your early access option
• Why Roth 401(k) dollars can roll into a Roth IRA but Roth IRA dollars can never move back
• The three-step funding order that gets the match, the flexibility, and the maximum Roth contribution
The bigger lesson is that these two accounts are teammates rather than rivals. One delivers a larger contribution limit and free employer money, while the other delivers investment freedom, early access to contributions, and control over where your tax-free dollars actually grow. The investors building the largest tax-free buckets are not the ones who picked a side — they are the ones who used both in the right sequence.
This strategy is especially valuable for high-income earners, employees with a 401(k) match, self-employed investors using a solo 401(k), younger savers who may need early access, and anyone approaching retirement who wants to start their Roth IRA five-year clock now!
Check out my youtube channel for more content on retirement planning and self-directed IRA topics!: https://www.youtube.com/@MatSorensen
For questions or to learn more about this episode's topic, book a call with an IRA specialist here: https://directedira.com/appointment/
Interested in learning more about alternative investments? Join us this year at the Alternative Asset Summit October 22 & 23, where you'll hear from industry experts and connect with like-minded investors exploring new ways to build wealth: https://altassetsummit.com/
Other:
Mat Sorensen: https://matsorensen.com
Mark J. Kohler: https://markjkohler.com/
KKOS: https://kkoslawyers.com
Main Street Business https://mainstreetbusiness.com
IN THIS EPISODE
SHOW NOTES 🔗
TRANSCRIPT 🔗
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080
Welcome everyone to the Directed IRA podcast.
00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:03.279
This is Matt Sorensen.
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Excited to share today's episode with you.
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I break down the Roth IRA versus the Roth 401k.
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:15.519
They have so much in common, but they have five major differences you need to know.
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I put this out on YouTube and within one day I had a hundred thousand views.
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Apparently, people are interested in this, so I thought, let's share it on the Directed IRA podcast.
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Please enjoy Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks actually have more differences than they have in common.
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Sure, these accounts have the same first name, and they both have tax-free growth and tax-free distributions, but almost everything else about them is different.
00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:56.880
And there are five differences in particular that I'm going to walk you through in this video.
00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:11.280
And these differences are some of the most important rules that apply to retirement accounts, from contribution rules to high income restrictions to backdoor methods, to early distribution rules, and to rollover and transfer rules, and even the five-year rule.
00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:12.719
These are all different.
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:20.079
But when you understand the differences, you'll know how to take advantage of every ounce of tax-free growth from each account.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.920
Or you could determine which of the two accounts is best for you.
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:32.319
Because it's not just about which account is better, it's which account is better for the specific dollar you have that you're about to contribute.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:41.760
Because the answer changes based on your income, your employer if you have one, how much you're putting away, and when you might need the money back.
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:52.640
So here's the plan: five side-by-side comparisons, and then a quick decision cue after each one, and then the funding order that gets most people the best of both accounts.
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I'm Matt Sorensen, tax attorney and CEO at Directed IRA.
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My company has set up over 20,000 Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks for retirees.
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:08.240
And I've learned what matters and how to best take advantage of Roth strategies for your IRA or 401.
00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:09.919
So let's break it down.
00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:14.159
So let's get into eligibility rules and let's talk about Roth IRAs first.
00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:20.960
The nice thing about Roth IRAs is anyone who has earned income can establish a Roth IRA.
00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.280
Now, earned income is like wage income, self-employment income.
00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:30.000
Earned income, by the way, is not rental property income or capital gain income.
00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.639
So just make sure you have earned income.
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:36.319
If you do, you can establish a Roth IRA.
00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:37.759
But there's a catch.
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:51.360
If you are a high-income earner, making more than 153,000 single or 242,000 married, filing joint, or head of household, you cannot contribute fully to a Roth IRA.
00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.879
You can't make a regular Roth IRA contribution.
00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:57.919
You must do a backdoor Roth IRA.
00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.080
I've got plenty of videos on how to do that.
00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.400
We'll talk about that here a little bit later.
00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:06.639
But just know the Roth IRA is open to everyone.
00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:08.639
I don't need an employer for it.
00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:10.719
I just need earned income.
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:25.759
Now, an important point on the earned income, too, is if you are a non-working spouse, but you're married and you have a spouse that has earned income, you can attribute the working spouse's income to your income and contribute to a Roth IRA.
00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:29.120
All right, now let's talk about the Roth 401 here.
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Roth 401ks are only available to you if you work for a company that has a 401k plan that allows for Roth contributions.
00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:43.520
Now, the vast majority of 401 plans in America now allow Roth accounts.
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It's somewhat newer in the retirement system, but by now, it's been around for 20, 30 years.
00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:54.879
Roth accounts can be and are mostly available in 401k plans.
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The great thing, though, about Roth 401ks is there's no high income limit.
00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:06.240
If you're making 500 grand a year, you are not restricted from contributing to a Roth 401.
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:09.199
There's no backdoor method required.
00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:17.120
You can simply contribute to the Roth 401k, making your employee contributions, which is 24,500.
00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.839
We'll get to the full amounts here in a second, straight into the Roth 401k account.
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Now there's two important things I want to point out here, because this is mistakes that can cost you on this Roth IRA versus Roth 401k.
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There is an excess contribution penalty of 6%.
00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:42.319
If you contribute to a Roth IRA and you didn't fix it in time, but you made too much money, you weren't allowed to contribute to a Roth IRA.
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Well, you get penalized for that.
00:04:44.800 --> 00:05:00.240
And the flip side of this is also people who were told they can't have a Roth IRA when in fact they could have used a Roth 401k or done a backdoor Roth IRA, even though they were high income and phased out on the income limits.
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:12.319
So just knowing the strategies and understanding the difference matters a lot in how you're getting your money in and understanding the options about whether you can use the Roth 401k or the Roth IRA.
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:13.920
But I want to make sure you understand this.
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.000
I don't care your income limit.
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:19.360
You're a high income earner, you can do a Roth IRA.
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:21.279
We're just going to go backdoor.
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:26.160
And remember, even if you're high income, you can do the Roth 401k.
00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.959
So don't take yourself out of the Roth party because you think you make too much money.
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I want you to party with all the other Roth people.
00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:38.959
Okay, we can still do the Roth IRA, we're doing backdoor or the Roth 401k.
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So here's the decision making on this first point here.
00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:46.639
If you're high income, I mentioned the amounts earlier, you can still do the Roth 401k.
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:51.040
And if you want to do the Roth IRA, we're just doing a backdoor Roth IRA.
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The second difference between Roth IRA and Roth 401k is how much money we can get in and whether we get some free money that's not our money going into the account.
00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:05.040
Now, this is the biggest gap between the two accounts, and it's not even close.
00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:06.560
It's more than three to one.
00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:10.879
In 2026, here's the contribution rule amounts in a Roth IRA.
00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:20.639
You can put in$7,500 a year plus$1,100 if you're age 50 plus, meaning I can get$8,600 if I'm age 50 plus or older.
00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:24.879
And in a Roth 401k, you can put in$24,500 a year.
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.199
That's about three times as much as you can do in a Roth IRA.
00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:34.079
You also get to put more money in if you're age 50 or older, an extra$8,000.
00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:37.920
And there's this new super catch up that came into effect this year.
00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:54.800
This is for people age 60 to 63 who get to put in an additional$3,250, meaning you could be putting in$35,750 a year of Roth dollars into your$0.1K if you're age 60 to 63.
00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.120
Again, to keep it simple here, just remember$24,500.
00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:03.199
Everyone can at least put$245 into their Roth 401.
00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:09.680
Now the most important distinction on a Roth 401k actually isn't the dollar amount you can put on.
00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:11.920
It's something called the match.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:23.839
Most 401k plans, including 403B plans that have Roth accounts, allow for something called the match, where the employer incentivizes you to contribute to the 401k.
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:33.120
And if you're contributing to the 401k with your money, they match and put money in from the company into the 401 for you.
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.480
So for example, a 4% match would be common.
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:38.399
It's a simple calculation here.
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Let's say you made$100,000 a year and you put in$4,000 into your Roth 401k, well, the company would match that dollar for dollar, putting in$4,000 of their money into the account.
00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:56.879
So now I've got$8,000 into my$0.1K.
00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:59.120
Only half of that was my money.
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I doubled my money and got 100% return on day one.
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:14.480
If you're someone with a company that offers a match, you should absolutely take advantage of the match, contribute with your Roth 401, go Roth.
00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:16.079
We want that tax-free growth.
00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:18.160
And then the match is going to come in.
00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:20.639
Now, an important distinction here.
00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:29.920
Many companies, when they put in the match, they're going to throw those dollars in as traditional 401k or pre-tax dollars.
00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:42.159
There are some companies that will put it in as Roth, but the vast majority, even though you did Roth contributions, the match is going to come into a separate pre-tax or traditional 401k account.
00:08:42.320 --> 00:09:02.960
Now, if you're someone that's making, let's say,$100,000 a year and your budget is to put$400$5,000 into a Roth account, you would be foolish to drop that into a Roth IRA instead of using the Roth 401k because the company will do the match and I would effectively double my contribution on day one.
00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:04.639
That is the greatest return.
00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:10.080
You'll find no other investment that will guarantee you a doubling 100% return in year one.
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.200
So make sure you're taking advantage of the match.
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.600
If you have a Roth 401k, put in enough money to get the full match.
00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:21.039
Now, what we do after that is very different.
00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:28.240
This is where we will go back to the Roth IRA and contribute to the Roth IRA for other reasons we'll get to here in a second.
00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:38.639
And if you're a high incomer and you're like, Matt, I want to put away as much Roth dollars as possible, go max out that 24.5 in the Roth 401k, do the$7,500 in the Roth IRA.
00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:41.039
You're probably going to do a backdoor Roth IRA.
00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.159
If you're married, do a backdoor Roth IRA for your spouse.
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Let's get as much Roth dollars working as possible.
00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:49.200
But there is an order of it.
00:09:49.360 --> 00:10:00.080
And the order of it is first get the match at your employer, get out, go back to the Roth IRA next for the next$7,500 because I have more investment options in a Roth IRA.
00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:05.039
I'm not restricted to the 401k plan menu of mutual funds or target date funds.
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:13.519
After I've dropped the$7,500 in the Roth IRA, then go back to the Roth 401K to get the rest of that$24,500 in there.
00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:18.159
Then I would go back and look at maybe doing a backdoor Roth IRA for your spouse.
00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:26.399
The third difference between Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks is how you can access your money early before age 59 and a half.
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:33.600
The flexibility of Roth IRAs are significant, but Roth 401ks, not so much.
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:35.919
And this is where the rules get very different.
00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:48.960
In a Roth IRA, when I put my money in, and let's say I'm putting$7,500 in a year as my annual contribution, and I've done it for 10 years, I've got$75,000 of contributions.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.200
Maybe I'm age 45 right now.
00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:55.600
But the account because of investments is actually worth$125,000.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.240
I've had$50,000 of growth.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.840
Well, you can pull your contributions that you put into your Roth IRA out at any time.
00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:06.399
No tax, no penalty.
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:11.200
It's only the earnings and growth that you have to wait until you're$59.5.
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:19.440
So if I want to buy a home, I want to go back to school, I need to pay off high interest debt, I want to go on a vacation, whatever your reason.
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:28.000
Want to be smart here about these dollars, but whatever your reason, you can pull the money out of the Roth Area before 59 and a half without claiming any excuse.
00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.080
It's your money to access.
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.720
The contributions are always yours.
00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:39.679
Only the earnings and growth, and the example I gave, the 50 grand, have to wait until you're 59 and a half.
00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:44.399
But when we contrast this with the Roth 401k, there's no such rule.
00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:50.399
When I put money into a Roth 401, that contribution is locked up until 59 and a half.
00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:52.799
I do not get to pull it out early.
00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:58.879
The Roth 401k does have a different mechanism though to get money out if you need it.
00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:13.519
In a 401k, including a Roth 401, you can do something called a participant loan where you lend yourself half the balance of the 401 not to exceed$50,000 and you pay it back over five years.
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:21.120
So for example, if I had a 401k with$200,000 in it, I can take half the balance not to exceed$50K.
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.360
So I could take$50,000 out.
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:30.000
On the other hand, if I had an$80,000 401, I can take half the balance not to exceed$50K.
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.639
Half the balance in this would be$40,000.
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.679
Now you're paying it back with at least quarterly payments.
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:42.159
You could do monthly, but you're paying it back over a five-year window at an interest rate of prime plus 2%.
00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:45.519
But that interest is being paid back to your 401.
00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:50.559
Again, it's a way to access these dollars and then get them back to the 401k.
00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.399
So early access, no penalty, no distribution.
00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:59.840
That's how I'm going to get it out of a Roth 401k is via this participant loan.
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.519
Let's just go over a quick example here.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:06.720
Let's say you're 35 years old and you have$40,000 of Roth IRA contributions.
00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:12.399
Well, that$40,000 in the Roth IRA operates as kind of like an emergency fund of last resort.
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.120
We can access that money if we need to.
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:19.759
But that same$40,000 in a Roth 401k, it's locked up.
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.559
There is a loan workaround and it's a good one.
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:25.120
And I can get half the balance of that$401.
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.840
Maybe with growth now, it's worth$60,000.
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:30.240
And I could borrow out$30,000.
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.679
But remember, I've got to repay it and get the money back.
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.559
I'm paying interest, it's going to me, so I don't hate that.
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:44.960
But I've got to get the money back into the Roth 401k within five years, or it is a early distribution, subject to tax and to penalty.
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:53.120
So as you're thinking about Roth IRA versus Roth 401k in terms of getting the money back before retirement, the Roth IRA wins.
00:13:53.279 --> 00:14:08.159
It's better for early savers, younger savers who might need access to the money earlier, because remember, we can get the contributions back whenever we want, whether that's for a new home, to seat a business, some emergency expense we have, or to pay off high interest debt.
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.480
The Roth IRA just has more flexibility that is worth real dollars.
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:18.320
The fourth difference between a Roth IRA and a Roth 401k is what you can invest it into.
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:19.440
This is massive.
00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:29.279
This is the whole purpose of having a Roth IRA or Roth 401 is investing it, getting tax-free growth and later tax-free distributions.
00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:37.519
Now they both have that same tax-free wrapper around them, but what you can invest them into and how they can grow are very different.
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:56.960
The Roth 401 is usually restrictive on what you can invest it into, not because of the law, but because of the plan that you have and your employer restricting your 401k to certain mutual funds or target date funds that your employer or their advisor has selected.
00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:00.240
And this might be 15 to 30 different funds.
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:10.879
And this is usually determined based on a questionnaire you fill out, saying your age, the time you want to retire, and whether you want to take high growth, low growth, high risk, low risk.
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:15.600
And then they just put you into specific funds based on how you fill out that questionnaire.
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.600
Now you can also choose specific funds and override those decisions.
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:22.159
And you want to be proactive in your Roth 401k.
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:28.879
But the bottom line is here, you get a small menu of what you can invest into with a Roth 401k.
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:38.080
In a Roth IRA, on the other hand, you can choose the custodian, whether this is a brokerage IRA, a self-directed IRA.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.320
And if you're in a brokerage IRA, you can pick whatever stock or index fund you want.
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.840
You can pick individual companies, buy certain shares.
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.759
You have lots of options in a brokerage IRA.
00:15:49.919 --> 00:16:08.080
Or you could even go more full architecture with a self-directed IRA, what we do at our company-directed IRA, where your Roth IRA could be invested into real estate or into a startup or a private fund, notes, crypto, assets you actually know and believe in and think will perform better than, let's say, the stock market.
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:14.159
But the Roth IRA, because you're in charge of it, it's an individual retirement account.
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:21.679
You're not subject to an employer giving you a menu and forcing you to certain investments that you have to make with the account.
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:24.240
You're in charge when it's in an IRA.
00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:30.639
You can choose the custodian and you can choose the investment options you want to grow and build your tax-free account.
00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:46.080
The bottom line here between Roth IRA and Roth 401K is the Roth IRA gives me greater ability to choose the investments, have a broader opportunity, and I'm typically going to have lower fees on the Roth IRA than you are on dollars in your Roth 401k.
00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.080
So in this category, I would say the Roth IRA wins out big time.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:17:13.039
And just a quick pause here, because I just want to say at this point, if you're the kind of person who likes to be in control of your retirement, I put together a free beginner's guide on how you can self-direct your IRA, not just picking your own stocks with a brokerage IRA, but investing your retirement accounts in assets you actually know, like the rental property down the street, a private fund, a startup, a private company, crypto.
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:15.599
This guide walks you through it step by step.
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:17.599
The link is in the description below.
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:23.440
And the fifth difference here is how the money can move via rollovers and transfers.
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:29.200
This is vastly different for Roth IRAs than it is for Roth 401Ks.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:38.319
The important thing to understand here is that when you have a Roth IRA, you can only move that money to another Roth IRA.
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:39.920
I want you to understand that.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.759
Roth IRAs are always Roth IRAs.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:53.039
On the other hand, if you have a Roth 401K, I can roll that over to a Roth IRA, to another Roth 401k.
00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:02.880
Roth 401Ks can go into either Roth IRAs or Roth 401Ks, but Roth IRAs cannot go to a Roth 401k.
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.000
It's a stupid, weird rule in the tax code.
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:07.759
Congress has tried to fix it.
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.759
It's just people haven't made a big enough fuss about it, so it hasn't changed.
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:19.599
And I've seen many clients make this mistake where they've wanted to have a Roth 401k, maybe even a Roth solo 401k.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:26.160
They've rolled old employer Roth 401k dollars into a Roth IRA, and now they're stuck.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:34.720
They can't roll that Roth IRA into the Roth Solo 401k because once it hits a Roth IRA, it stays a Roth IRA.
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:42.240
I could move it from, let's say, a Charles Schwab Roth IRA to a directed IRA Roth IRA or a Fidelity Roth IRA.
00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.079
You can change the custodian.
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It just must stay a Roth IRA.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:19:01.039
And just a note here, there used to be a strategy where people would roll their Roth 401k dollars out to Roth IRAs once they hit retirement age of, say, 73, because Roth 401Ks used to be subject to RMD.
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.960
That changed as of recent retirement legislation two years ago.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:10.960
So as of now, Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks are not subject to RMD.
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:17.359
So there's no reason to do that rollover from a Roth 401K to a Roth IRA just to avoid RMD.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:24.079
You might want to do it anyways to give greater investment options, but you don't need to do it to avoid the RMD.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:31.359
Now many people who have a Roth 401K also have a Roth IRA, and you may be using the Roth 401k at your employer.
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:38.480
You're getting a match, you're maxing out contributions of$10,000 or$20,000 plus that you can't do in a Roth IRA.
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.880
So we're building up the Roth 401k.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:49.279
And as you leave that employer, you likely will roll out to a Roth IRA, or when you retire, it'll likely roll again to a Roth IRA.
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:56.319
And so you might end up with the Roth IRA, but you started and built those dollars as a Roth 401k, that's fine.
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.000
You're still going to get that tax-free growth and tax-free treatment.
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.680
And Roth 401k can go to Roth IRA.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:08.640
Just remember, you can't go Roth IRA into Roth 401k.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:15.359
So whether you're using a Roth IRA or a Roth 401k is about the order of operations during your earning years.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:17.599
As I'm contributing money, how much?
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Am I getting a match?
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Am I maxing them out?
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Am I high income?
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.119
But this isn't a forever choice.
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.000
You might roll it all out to a Roth IRA anyways.
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:43.599
One quick planning tip here though, if you don't have a Roth IRA yet and you're getting close to retirement, open one up now, even with a small contribution, because this starts your lifetime clock today for Roth IRAs, because you must have a Roth IRA for five years before you can pull it out tax or penalty free.
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:50.799
But that clock of five years starts on the first Roth IRA you establish after making your first contribution.
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:58.720
And that means you can eventually roll your entire Roth 401k dollars over to the Roth IRA and immediately start taking distributions.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:05.279
If you didn't do that, you will otherwise have another five years you're waiting to get money out of the Roth IRA.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:18.799
And what I see with many clients is at the end of the day, even though they may have used a Roth IRA and a Roth 401k during their earning years at retirement, as they're in their 60s, 70s, and on, they're having a Roth IRA.
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:34.160
So using the Roth 401k and the Roth IRA as you're earning and contributing, it's just a question of how much money is flowing through the 401k because of the contributions, the additional amount you can put in over 7,500, and the match you might get.
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:39.680
We're building that up, but eventually it's likely to roll out and end up in a Roth IRA.
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:46.960
When you're thinking about whether you should be using a Roth IRA or a Roth 401k, you're actually likely going to use both.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:50.079
Maybe you're using one or the other at certain times in your life.
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Maybe there's a period where you're using both, but in the end, you end up with a Roth IRA in retirement.
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:59.759
But I want to go through how you should be thinking about this as you're contributing and growing and building.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:00.720
Wealth.
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Step one, what should I be using first?
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Well, if you have a 401k at work, you should be doing a Roth 401, make your contribution there, but only up into the amount you need to to get the full employer match.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:16.480
Go get your match.
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You're going to double your money.
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.400
Most companies do a dollar-for-dollar match.
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:26.559
Again, in the example we gave, making$100,000 a year, you put in$4,000, the company matches$4,000.
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.960
You've got$8,000 in your 401k, 100% return.
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:37.839
After that, though, we're going to go over to a Roth IRA to put your next$7,500.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.920
Why would I jump over to a Roth IRA and set up a whole nother account?
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:43.839
Well, I have more control.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.839
I have greater investment options.
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.480
I could put individual stocks or other index funds, lower fee products.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:55.599
I could self-direct it and do a Roth IRA investing in real estate or private companies or startups.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.400
You have greater flexibility and control with a Roth IRA.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.279
And that's where the next$7,500 goes.
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I'm not getting a match anywhere at my employer anymore.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.359
So I'm going to the Roth IRA next.
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:22.000
Step three, we're going to go back to the Roth 401k and we're going to take up the remaining of the$24,500 that I have left after I already put the initial amount in in step one to get the full match.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:33.920
Now again, if you're at step three here, we're talking about someone trying to put 30, 40 grand plus into their 401k each year of Roth dollars, including some into a Roth IRA.
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:36.160
So you might have stopped at step two.
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You weren't trying to get this much in or didn't have a budget for this much.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:50.559
But I just want to keep going here so you can see you can be getting$30,000 plus of Roth dollars a year between your company 401k and a Roth IRA.
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:58.880
And I just want to note here, if you're a high income earner, you may have needed to do the backdoor Roth IRA to take advantage of the$7,500 in a Roth IRA.
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:04.000
If you have a spouse, you could be doing$7,500 a year in your spouse's Roth IRA.
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.799
Again, might need to be backdoor if you're high income.
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:11.119
If you're$50 plus, there's additional catch up contributions you could have been putting in as well.
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:18.160
So we can be putting$30,000,$40,000,$50,000 a year of Roth contributions in using these strategies.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:21.119
And I like going in that one, two, three order.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:33.279
Get the match, get out, go to the Roth IRA, greater investment flexibility, go back to the Roth 401k later to fill up the rest of the$24,500 contribution bucket everyone has available.
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:36.000
Just one quick example here to show the whole framework.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:43.119
Let's say you can save$15,000 a year at a job that offers a 4% match and you're making$100,000 a year.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:48.480
Well, we're going to put$4,000 into the Roth 401k and we're going to pick up the match.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.519
We're going to drop the next$7,500 into the Roth IRA.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:58.720
And then the remaining$3,500 is going to go back into the Roth$0.1K.
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.680
That's where those$15,000 are going to be broken up.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:07.440
I got the match, I put money in a Roth IRA, and then I went back into the Roth 401k.
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.960
Every dollar is placed where it is working the hardest.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.680
We work so hard earning and making money.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:16.640
We should have our investment dollars working as hard for us.
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:23.119
And one other aside here, if you're someone who's self-employed, you can do something called a solo 401k.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:30.720
In this whole video, I've assumed you have a 401k at somewhere that is your job, or you have an employer, they're throwing money in on the match.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:42.640
But if you're self-employed, you can have your own Roth solo 401k, or you can be putting up to$72,000 a year of Roth dollars into your own Roth Solo 401k.
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.880
It's even better than what we've been talking about here.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:54.400
But just as we're thinking about Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks in general and how to get those funded and the funding order we just talked about, make sure you're following that.
00:25:54.559 --> 00:26:00.720
Too many people lose money because they don't realize this was a sequence of how you get the dollars in.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.559
They think of the Roth IRA versus Roth 401k as a rivalry and they choose a side.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:08.319
I don't want you doing that.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:15.119
Think of where your money's going to work the best, how it's going to grow, and the benefits of the different accounts for your situation.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.559
So here's the bottom line.
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:24.720
The Roth IRA and the Roth 401k, they're not competitors, they're teammates with different jobs, both working for you.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:29.759
One of them brings a bigger contribution amount and free money with the match.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:39.359
The other is bringing freedom, freedom to access the money early, more freedom in how you can invest it and how you can consolidate these accounts on your terms.
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:45.440
The people who are building the biggest tax-free buckets aren't the ones who picked the right account.
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.880
They're the ones who used both in the right order.
00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.519
So tell me in the comments, which camp have you been in?
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.920
Roth IRA only, Roth 401k only, or are you doing both?
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:01.680
And did anything change your funding order that we talked about today or how you view those accounts?
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:06.079
I do read the comments and they turn into future videos, so please do share.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:18.319
And if the investment control side of this got your attention, putting your Roth IRA into real estate, private funds, the assets you actually know, that's exactly what we do at My Company Directed IRA.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:26.400
We set up Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks every day, and we'd love to set you up with the tools you need to build the retirement you're looking forward to.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.160
Book a free 15-minute call.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:30.960
The link is in the description, right underneath the free guide.
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:35.440
Thank you everyone for listening to this special episode of the Directed IRA podcast.
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:47.279
I hope you learned something that you didn't know already about Roth IRAs and Roth 401K's powerful tax free wealth building machines, but lots of differences that you can use to your advantage.
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.440
Please share this with your friends and family.
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.640
We'll see you next week on the Directed IRA podcast.