EP 3:35 Dallas Interviews His Kids AfterMeth

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But this is what's best.
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Like I I have to be true to myself, and one of these days they're going to understand that.
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Um and it and it did come true.
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So after I came out and and after all of that, the divorce and everything, the three of us began to get closer and closer.
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And I think when meth came along, yeah, it put a spin on it.
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But it I think that made it a little easier for us to come back.
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Chemsex.
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Sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, methadrone, and GHB, among others.
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Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast.
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Please note the views expressed by the host and guest on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering.
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Alright, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast and a very special episode this week.
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Um, this week I celebrate eight years since I've been in meth recovery, and my 50th birthday, all in one week.
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Uh my 50th birthday is August 5th, and it was about eight years ago, 2018, August 7th, I believe, August 7th, that these two people on here on the podcast with me today, who are my children, directly from my loins.
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Yay! What an honor.
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Yep.
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Liliana and Jonah and Dr.
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Jonas Bragg.
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No, that's not yet.
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He's changed his name to Jonas for some odd reason today.
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Well, that's because I signed in with Google and that's my Google name.
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Don't even worry about it.
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Okay.
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Well, we could probably change it in the editing.
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Um, but yeah, it was eight years ago that um these two picked me up from jail.
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I'm sure you've probably heard the story, or if you listened to episode number two in this podcast, um, I was homeless at the time.
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And um I meant to try to find the picture.
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So we took a picture that day um and put it on the screen, but and maybe I can still do that.
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But we um Lily Dorot was driving, of course, and we went to the park and had a talk.
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And um, that was the day that I just decided like I have to I have to put myth behind, and I have to put these two first because they needed a parent at the time.
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And so for the first night or two, maybe two nights, I don't know.
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I don't remember now.
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Um you two stuck me into your mom's apartment.
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She wasn't there.
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Wasn't much sneaking.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, she wasn't there.
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She didn't she she may not know still until she.
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Please, Stephanie, you're not watching this.
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Hey, mom.
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Um, yeah, maybe.
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Nothing she can do about it now.
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Um, but I was able to to sleep there for a couple nights and then rode the bus back to to Charlotte to get work and start this whole journey that we've been on.
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So um, Liliana, if you want to tell us, I don't know, tell us anything you want to tell us about you, and then Jonah, you can too if you'd like.
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About me?
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Like yeah, what do you want us to know?
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I'm not good with bios, I guess.
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Um you know, I guess just became independent very young because of this scenario, and just made me who I am today, I guess.
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Just very much need to do everything for myself because if I'm not doing it for myself, it's not getting done.
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So made the move to Wilmington to go to school and just been here ever since, and now I am an assistant property manager at an apartment complex.
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So living alone, have a cat, kind of just living my best life.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Thank you, Jonah.
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Um, I am an install manager at Little Heating and Cooling.
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I do HVAC.
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I've been doing it for quite some time now, and lately have been just trying to lock in with staying disciplined, you know, cleaning up around the house, making sure I'm cooking my meals, just making sure I'm, you know, doing stuff that's you know has meaning behind it instead of you know being lazy and lying around and stuff.
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Um so yeah, I kind of just hang out alone a lot and don't really do much um except just kind of try to work on myself and you know do what I can to make myself better.
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And you also live by yourself, also live by myself.
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Um, luckily, it's very nice being living alone.
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Agreed.
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Agreed.
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All of us live alone now, the first time.
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Yeah, that's yeah, wild.
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Would love to live with y'all again, but definitely love the space.
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I would love to.
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No, it'd be cool.
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We could run it back sometime.
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Yeah.
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No, I think we have a compound where we all have our own places to go home.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Be nice.
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Yeah.
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Compound.
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Or of course.
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When I start my cult.
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We can do that.
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Which I'm sure we're following.
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Yeah.
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Cult.
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Cult.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You know what that is?
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Uh yeah, why are you starting?
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Well, they have compounds.
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A cult usually has like a compound.
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I see.
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Like from uh, you know, servant.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That's right.
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The show a show all of us a servant is a show all of us have watched together.
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It's we were we always it was difficult sometimes for us to find shows that all three of us were into when we were living together.
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Honestly, you feel like it used to be difficult for us to find a lot of stuff we were all three mutually into.
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Um but now we've kind of grown closer together and just really enjoyed each other's presence instead of really caring about what we're doing.
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At least for me, I don't know about you guys, but yeah.
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Yeah, I agree.
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I definitely feel like growing up and being it's different than having like a relationship with you guys as a kid versus having one as an adult because now it's like we're friends and family.
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Like, yes, we've all friends, but it's like now we can actually be adults about what we do and how we do.
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And like Jenna was saying, just be intentional about quality times because we do live in different places as well.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, that's true.
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So we didn't we we didn't prepare questions today, we didn't prepare talking points.
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Um I asked the kids This is all improvised.
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As you could probably tell very that it is.
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But I get a lot of questions from family members, and I hear uh and I talk to a lot of men whose kids won't talk to them anymore, um, whose family has turned their backs on them because of what they did while using.
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And so we we have a different story, and so I want to share that um here.
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So I I want to start with you know, that you two were pretty really young when I was going through my meth addiction.
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Um so we're talking eight years ago.
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So Lily, you were 17, 16, I mean yeah, I would say to like towards the end of it all, like starting it, yeah.
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Yeah, like 15.
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Right.
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And so there there's some some things that and the thing is is that I I in the beginning was doing, I think, a good job of hiding it.
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So I had 50 50-50 custody, um, and so you all would come stay with me for a week, on a week, off a week.
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Um, and so in the beginning I was using while you were gone.
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Uh, but that quickly led into using while you were in the house.
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Which is crazy because you know, I was trying to think of stuff to prepare for this, and obviously I couldn't.
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But one thing that did come to mind was I don't know if you remember that time someone was blackmailing you uh, and you know, you went to Lily attenders like, you know, for money, and you said the photo they were like blackmailing you with was you using in front of us, and I just have zero any sort of recollection of that.
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Like I had no idea that whole time until you told me.
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I even if I saw you do it, I just I don't know.
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I mean, I don't even remember that.
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Like it kind of sounds familiar, but I don't like I remember this story, but I don't recall you coming to me at Tinder's and asking for stuff, I guess.
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Do you remember that?
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Yes, somebody somebody had a picture of me.
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I I think I was holding a pipe, and the the bedroom door had opened, and one of you were was walking by.
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So all in the same photo was me holding a pipe and you in the background.
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So it wasn't exactly me using in front of you, but it was something that they thought that they could blackmail me with.
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And at the time, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So what I would do is I would smoke, we would all smoke in my room and keep the door locked.
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And so when you all wanted to come in, you would knock on the door.
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And so everybody would put their pipes away and you would come in and you really didn't know what was happening.
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Because I was gonna say there just isn't I if there was a smell, I couldn't even tell you what it would be.
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There's not a smell with meth.
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I mean, you uh once you're in it, you can kind of smell it, but it it vapors pretty pretty quickly.
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That is in terms of you can't really smell.
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It's like using a vape kind of right.
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Because I was gonna say, if I ever did even smell it, I would not even realize that I didn't.
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You know, that might kind of check out because sometimes after like walking into your room, you know, when it was a little cloudy and stuff, and I would start feeling like some type of way, and you know, maybe it was just like some sort of secondhand I think you're making up.
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You're making that up.
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Yeah, you're making that up.
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New blackmail story.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Right, right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So so given that, you know, and here's the thing is I don't, you know, we don't I don't want to have a podcast full of remember that time, remember that time, right?
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Um, which which is fine if those memories come up, but I I do want to have a podcast that gives people hope that there's reconciliation and gives men it helps men feel like they're not alone in the things that they did.
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So some of the things that you must remember that I did was sp specifically for you, Lily, is you know, when I got deep into shoplifting, um, I had you help me steal a printer from Staples.
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Um, you all provided the getaway car for me to when I would steal big loads of stuff from Walmart.
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I remember that with remnant.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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So you were accessories to crimes, I mean, basically.
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And it was like fun.
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It was like, let's say you can get away with it.
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But now looking back, it's like very an uncomfortable feeling, I guess.
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Right.
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I mean, if I would have been arrested, you know, what kind of what kind of trauma would that have caused?
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Or a different thing.
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Right.
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Right.
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Right.
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In front of you.
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Yeah, in front of us, right.
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Um, and you, Lily, I I took, you know, I wrote bad checks on your checking account.
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You were at the mall with your friends trying to buy something, and you were overdrive, you know, you were overdrawn, you were stressed, you were embarrassed, you were a teenager, and you know, and then you found out that I had you know, there were bad checks written on the account.
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Because I saved up so much money from working.
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Yeah.
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And then it was all gone.
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And there was a time during that period that you did stop talking to me.
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Yeah.
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So I was gonna bring that up too, and because it was just so emotionally hard for me because we were so close.
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And then like you were just gone, I guess.
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So that was just really hard for me to work through because I just because I think if I remember correctly, the time period that you were gone in West Virginia is we had known you were on meth and you went there because you were homeless, right?
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Yeah.
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And then when you came back, that's when I pretty much had a panic attack because I just didn't know how to handle it or want to maybe confront the feelings of seeing you again, I guess.
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But I mean I watched a movie which is so random, but a quiet place and the dad in that, like for some reason it just like clicked in me to like want to talk to you again.
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So I just remember that day I reached back out to you, and then I think that's when we met at like the subway or something in between, yeah, and then it just kind of go went up from there because I realized I'm like, this is my dad again, and I could tell you were obviously trying to work on yourself and trying to get better, and like that's just what I personally needed to see.
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And on top of that, it's really inspiring to watch somebody go through that and then also be where you are now.
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It's I mean, that's what I look up to whenever I'm in hard times as well.
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It's like hard times is also um different for everyone.
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Like that might have been your rock bottom, and someone else's rock bottom could have been different, but yet you I guess I'm just talking in circles at this point, but no, it's just really inspiring to see get all the way back up and flourish, though.
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Right, yeah, yeah.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, that's why I should have prepared something.
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I can't even think.
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No, no, no, you're all good.
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I sent you all good.
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Um something I want to bring up is how the fact that the whole time he was using while we were living with him in that apartment, and um, you know, he he still took care of me and Lily.
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Um, you know, he would make sure there was dinner every night.
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Um sleep and stuff.
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Yeah, it may have been the same, you know, same few meals, but it was still it was still dinner.
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You know, it like um gosh, there was something I'm gonna follow up that follow that up with, but he basically still took care of us.
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And you know, sometimes like if I had a nightmare or wasn't feeling good or whatever, you know, I'd go crawl in bed with him, and you know, he still just took care of us, like he still still would put us first, even though he was like had a pretty heavy addiction, he would never like put the meth first, which is something that you know I'm thankful for.
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I think that went a very long way for me and my sister for our futures.
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Um and you know, just couldn't be more grateful for the okay.
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I don't want to get emotional.
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Um it's just it's interesting um to me that you see it through that lens when I saw it through the lens that I was always putting meth first.
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You know, you what you didn't see, I mean, yes, I did make sure, I did make sure you had dinner every night.
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You didn't know when you went to bed.
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A lot of times I would leave and be gone all night.
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And you said you got in bed with me.
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I mean, thankfully, you never came to my room with a nightmare when I was gone.
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Um But you know, there was just times there were so many times I did put meth first.
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Um, I mean I got us evicted.
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You know, obviously I did put it first um to some degree, right?
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But I I to hear you to hear you two um talk about this, you know, that that time, I think that uh it occurs to me that I've probably exaggerated and I've probably catastrophize it a little more and see myself worse than than maybe it was.
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Yeah, and I feel like just to piggyback off of what Jonah was saying, is there might have been a time or maybe your feelings of how where you put it first.
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And I can say I think there was a time where I came to the realization of you were putting it first, but it was an addiction in a way, but it was only like a small amount of like the whole two-year process, like specifically the eviction, you being homeless kind of era.
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That's when I was like, this is getting a lot, this is kind of crazy, and you don't know how to process that.
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I mean, there are so many memories that I don't remember.
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I like blocked out because of just not wanting to even think about what life was at the time.
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Yeah, but again, it was just such a small part of it of the whole thing.
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Cause again, like Jonah said, yeah, like dinner was there, there was food.
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We did have a place to stay, and it's not like you were that far from mom either.
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That in the event that we did need something, we were close to our other parent.
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So that was really nice as well.
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But I just I mean, again, off of just me being independent, like I didn't really feel like I needed anyone.
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And I don't know if that's just like the a rebellious teenager kind of deal and want to do everything myself as well.
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But yeah, I guess that's a period.
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So why why you were the last you were the only person that would answer my call from jail like the third and fourth time?
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Um why did you keep answering my calls?
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:56.079
Who else would?
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.240
No one else would.
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.000
And if I didn't do it, then you'd still be there.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.200
Obviously not to this day, but I mean Janice wasn't answering.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.160
I'm not sure who else you called, but probably like friends at the time.
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.240
But I just felt like I had to be there for you.
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:22.960
I've always I wouldn't say always, but there's just been situations in my childhood where I've been the parent for both of my parents, and that is one of them for you.
00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:23.599
Yeah.
00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.559
Is I just had to be there for you because no one else was.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:39.200
I also wanted to be there for you because I I mean that's really painful to go through to listen to your father and like get a call being like, Do you want to accept this call from Mecklenburg County Jail?
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:39.680
Yeah.
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.200
And then you're it's like your voice, like Dallas.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:47.440
I'm like, oh my gosh, like it's so it was hard.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:48.799
I mean, yeah.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.960
But I wanted to be there for you.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:52.160
So Yeah.
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.319
Well, I'm really grateful that you were.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.680
Well, did you call me?
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.039
You you couldn't drive, and I I don't know.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:03.839
So no, I didn't.
00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:05.359
I'm sure you would have picked up.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:06.480
I think.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:13.359
I just remember uh bomb pulled me out of school, I think, like the day you went to jail.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.359
I don't remember all the details, but you know, she was telling me about it.
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:23.519
And I think Lily, is that when we met up for lunch or something and then drove straight to the jail?
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.000
Or when mom took us out of school.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:27.440
When she took us out of school.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:34.160
Yeah, she took us out of school and then took us over to his house as if seeing it is something that we needed to see.
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:39.519
And that was traumatizing in itself because the door was gone.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:45.200
And it's like, this is my place of living, this is my home.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.039
And it's trashed.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:47.680
Yeah.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:48.720
Why is it trashed?
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:50.079
I don't remember that.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:50.960
Really?
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:59.920
I thought she took us to lunch and then she probably did take us to lunch, but maybe she took us over there because we needed to grab something.
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:02.559
I'm not sure probably what it was.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:03.119
I don't know.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:03.680
Yeah.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:13.599
So you I mean, basically, that's when the police came the first time and they busted my door in down and and went through and rifled through the entire house.
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:18.640
And so you got to see that, unfortunately, while I was in jail.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:28.160
Um, so that so when that's when you got me from jail um and I started on this journey, right?
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:33.039
I wanted to get us a place to live, I wanted to get us back on track.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:22:04.799
Um so what do you do remember, like what I I guess my question still is, you know, what what do you why do you think that you never held a grudge toward me or or or or even just held it against me or at all that you were so displaced, you know, uh um you were displaced and you're put here and you're put there, and then you finally Finally, when I got the money, we finally got able to be a little bit stable.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:11.599
What what was it that do you remember anything about your thoughts around me?
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:17.680
I mean, going back to me, I guess I kind of you know, at one point I did hold a grudge.
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:26.319
And then I think I let it go because I finally was like, when I talk to you, it's like every bad thing goes away.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:32.400
I think that because we have such a good and close relationship before and during.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:32.960
Yeah.
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.200
And it was like I just wanted to just go back to that.
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:37.839
Okay.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:50.079
And from my memory, when you were staying at the apartment, like mom's apartment, because you did stay there for more than two days.
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:57.839
So we I ended up taking over a little while from yes, that apartment lease, because she had moved out with her boyfriend.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:58.480
So yes.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:22:58.960
Yeah.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.559
So yeah, you took over the lease or however it was done.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.240
And then I could just see you were trying.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.880
Yeah.
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:07.680
You know?
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.319
So that's just kind of all it took for me.
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:14.400
And then not I don't want to bash mom or whatever.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.880
I just mean at the time you were also the only parent.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:17.440
Right.
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.480
So it's like, let me latch on again to someone.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:21.519
Okay.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.920
That's kind of how it was for me, I guess.
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:30.720
Because who's to say uh my relationship with mom would be different if she had come back at that same time?
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:31.440
Mm-hmm.
00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:31.759
Right.
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:33.359
Yeah.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:43.039
But the difference is you stayed there throughout my life, besides a tiny little blip, like when you were just trying to heal yourself.
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:43.680
Yeah.
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:46.720
And I can un I can just understand that.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:47.359
Yeah.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.119
Even then I could just understand you needed to take time for yourself, you know?
00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:51.759
Mm-hmm.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:58.160
So me personally, I don't know.
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.000
I must have just like had faith in you or something.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:03.759
Because I just have no idea.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.160
Yeah.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:10.799
Maybe seeing how hard you were working to change things, you know, showing that you really wanted to change.
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:12.400
I I have no idea.
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:13.839
I I don't remember.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:14.799
I don't know.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:16.640
Maybe it was my only option.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:30.400
Yeah, I mean, you went through some things that maybe you didn't even realize, you know, because again again you were displaced from your friends and moved to a new county when I did find a place for us to live.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.079
It was out of county, right?
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:35.519
So I took you had to take you out of your school and everything like that.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.720
Um, you lost a lot of weight and you stayed in your room most of the time.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:41.519
Yeah.
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:42.400
Right.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:50.640
Maybe, maybe that's you know, maybe I was just too focused on other things to even notice.
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.200
Yeah.
00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:54.240
Yeah.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.359
But and you and you had some separation anxiety.
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.839
You always needed to know where I was at all times and what time I was going to get back.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:02.720
Yeah.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:08.799
Which I didn't realize until remember a month ago, I was looking through our old text messages.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:09.680
Yeah.
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:15.839
Um, I really didn't realize that until I went back and reread it.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:16.319
Yeah.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:16.720
Yeah.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:19.039
Who cares where I was?
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:19.440
Yeah.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.079
He wasn't concerned about that.
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:27.119
I would text Dad, is she coming back?
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.519
Yeah, the whole time I'm sure he knew I was always coming back.
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:34.319
Yeah.
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:42.960
Um, yeah, I think you make a good point, Lily, in that we we had the three of us established a strong relationship before meth.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:50.960
Um and our relationship, I think, got really strong after I came out, even though it was that was a little rough time too.
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:57.519
Um, but I just I just always knew in the back of my mind, like, this is going to be rough at first, but this is what's best.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.480
Like I I have to be true to myself, and one of these days they're going to understand that.
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.960
Um and it and it did come true.
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:06.079
You did.
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:13.279
So after I came out and and after all of that, the divorce and everything, the three of us began to get closer and closer.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.599
And I think when meth came along, yeah, it put a spin on it.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:21.200
But I think that made it a little easier for us to come back.
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:22.000
Yes.
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:33.440
I think that if that relationship wasn't established before, I think there would be some grudges held still, regardless of you coming back or not, honestly.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.640
Because it's also not like you haven't ever addressed the issues anyway.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:45.119
Like you have addressed what happened, apologized, and we've forgiven you.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:50.799
It's it would be so different if we just didn't talk about it and just tried to move on.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:56.799
Because then I'd be like, but there's this era that we're just completely ignoring for what reason.
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:57.359
Right.
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:02.160
There's no point to ignore it because it just makes you stronger on.
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:09.279
It's also part of this the fact that you didn't just apologize and say that you wanted to be better.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:10.640
You did it.
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:17.359
You know, you took the action and gave it your all to improve yourself.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.200
And that, you know, obviously actions speak louder than words.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:26.799
You were showing us visibly that you wanted to be better, not only for us, but for yourself.
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:27.440
Right.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:27.920
Yeah.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:28.559
Yeah.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:29.279
Yes.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:38.480
I think that's a good point for those out there who I think I see a lot of guys they're they're doing really well for 30, 60, 90 days.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:50.480
You know, they're to them, they they know they've changed and everything's going well, they're doing so good, and they get upset because family members aren't supporting them yet, or they're not convinced, they don't trust them yet.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.039
They don't they're not convinced that they've changed.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:28:02.000
Um, and I just I I know for me, I never I never tried to say, hey, look at me, I'm this, hey, look at me, I've been this sober this long.
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:02.799
Hey, look at me.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:12.000
Like I did try to just sit back and say, if I just keep doing my thing, and if I keep getting better and better as a person, I know they're gonna notice.
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:13.440
They're gonna have to notice.
00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:16.960
And I want them to notice on their own without me saying, Hey, notice me.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:18.720
And and I think it interviews.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.880
It's a very yeah, it's a very good way to go about it.
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.200
You just gotta trust the process.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:33.279
Your own life and prove to yourself that you can be better for yourself because that's gonna be that's gonna show other people that you have been growing.
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:39.839
Because if you're going over being like, I'm better, I'm better, like you gotta show it.
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:41.920
For a long time.
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:43.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.559
Yes, exactly right.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.079
So, and then we did it.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:55.359
But I and I think I tell people like uh it wasn't just me in recovery, I think it was all three of us in recovery, you know.
00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:00.720
Um, we were recovering our fra our relationship, recovering our lives together.
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.640
Um, you saw me, you all saw me at my worst.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:07.279
Um, really at my worst.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.480
And um, and now you've seen me at my best.
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.519
And and I really needed your support.
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.200
I really needed your support.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:17.759
Um, I needed you as much as you needed me.
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:21.039
And the three of us, I think we just came, we have a level ground.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:21.759
We still do.
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:31.839
I think I don't, you know, we I I don't I uh to me, I mean, unless you unless you two have a different perception, I I don't really function as dad when we're together.
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.400
It's it's like we're friends.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:48.559
But if you want advice, you know, you may ask me my advice on based on my experience, but I don't think that it's you know, it's my it's it's very much like we went through the trenches together and now we're besties.
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:49.680
That's what I feel like.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:53.839
I don't think you've ever been the stereotypical dad, if I'm gonna be honest.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:58.160
Like they say that's dad stand what'd you say?
00:29:58.640 --> 00:29:59.519
Far from it.
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:05.519
That's why I I feel like their relationship hasn't ever really felt like father-daughter.
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:17.119
Like, yes, it is and certain points definitely have, but I think I don't know.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:28.960
Yeah, I think that there's no there's it's not good to compare our relationship to a dad, a father-daughter or a father-son, just because it's never been stereotypical.
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:33.839
Yeah, I guess that is true.
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:35.119
Very unique.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:36.079
Yes.
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:38.319
Well, it's very unique.
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:48.319
I did, you know, I mean, I there were rules like in my house, if you all wanted to drink, if you wanted to smoke weed, you were allowed as long as you did it at my place.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:50.559
Yeah, I was gonna say there's only one rule.
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.720
Pick up after at your place?
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:54.240
Huh?
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:56.079
We were doing it everywhere.
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.880
Well, yeah, okay, but I mean you were allowed to at my house.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.240
Oh, oh, I see.
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:07.359
I was saying the one rule was just pick up after yourself, which was Which was never adhered to.
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:18.640
Yeah, I mean, I I guess I was at the traditional dad, because there weren't no there were no care fors or really a lot of rules.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.119
You just had trust in each other too.
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.319
Or that's how I thought it was, at least.
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:25.039
Mm-hmm.
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:34.640
I I just wanted you all to I wanted the one of the main reasons I came out is I wanted you all to empower yourselves to define who you wanted to be.
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:35.039
Yeah.
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.480
And you're not going to do that unless you have experiences.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:44.319
So if you wanted to experience with, if you want to experiment with weed, do it.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:47.759
And if that's a part of your beingness, then do it.
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:49.279
You know, it was it's not.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:50.000
It never did.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:55.680
I mean, neither one of you have had any kind of drug issues or any kind of addiction issues.
00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:06.160
Um, but I I just I just wanted you all, I just wanted you to develop your own rules and to sell, and and maybe that's not textbook parenting.
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:11.599
Maybe you know, there's a lot of people who would say that that was incorrect, but uh look at you two now, you know.
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.279
I think that might be the move, and I think maybe more people should try that.
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.240
Uh for the most I don't know.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:24.400
We we kind of grew up very well.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:33.920
I was just gonna add, I kind of wish I had slightly more discipline because I think that would help me with my habits today.
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:36.240
That could also just be a personality flaw.
00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:36.799
I don't know.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:38.079
Yeah, no, you're right.
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:41.839
Jonah has discipline, and that's just something I try to work on.
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:46.480
So I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's a nature versus nurture.
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:53.759
Maybe he just learned it faster than I did, but or maybe it is it was necessary for me to develop younger that I didn't have.
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:56.720
But yeah, yeah.
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:20.000
Well, I I wanted to also I wanted to say on the podcast, or wanted to say this to you both, is just uh, you know, and I've said this to you, but just how proud I am of how well you've developed and you've become very strong, mature, secure, stable individuals with lives that I wish I had at your age.
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:24.240
I really wish, I wish I was at the state you're in when I was your age.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:26.400
Or, well, you know, you can't change anything.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:32.079
It happened the way it happened, but um you're you're so far away ahead of of where I was.
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:37.440
Um and I just I owe, I mean, I really do owe my life to you both.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:43.440
Because I I know if I did not have you two, I would, I would be dead out there.
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:47.359
I would be dead out there, or I would be in prison somewhere for life.
00:33:47.599 --> 00:34:01.279
Um that I just there was a reason why you two had come along in my life is I needed anchors, I needed responsibility, I needed people to care for, but not only to care for, but to care for me the way that you have.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:23.360
Because you just it the way that you loved me unconditionally, no matter what, you knew I went to jail, your friends all knew I went to jail, you knew that I was doing drugs, you knew I was doing you know, all the stuff that you found out along the way, and you just kept coming back to me, and you just kept forgiving me and asking how to help.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.280
And I just I think that's amazing.
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.440
I think that is those are the type that's the type of person I want to be.
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:34.639
Well and you are we I think we got it from you.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:51.199
Yeah, I mean, we learned from you, so but I mean, yeah, if anyone watching this saw how things were, you know, eight years ago, six, eight years ago, whatever, probably would have never guessed things would have turned out this way.
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:51.679
Right.
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:52.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:54.239
I I wouldn't have.
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:56.960
Probably not, probably not.
00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:58.559
I don't know.
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.760
I feel like I always knew it would be fine.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:04.880
Maybe that's a little too trusting though.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:05.119
Okay.
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:08.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.480
Well, I had my doubts.
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:12.480
We all did.
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:31.679
Um, I don't uh is there anything that I missed today that you you wanted to mention in this podcast or to say to is there anything you would say to other uh siblings, children of addicts, uh uh of people who have a um a chemsex misuse in their life?
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.599
Like, what would you say to to children who have addicts as fathers, I guess?
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:42.559
And and when I say addict, I just yeah, I I I don't like that word, but you know what I mean.
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:44.800
What what would you what advice would you have?
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.199
Do you want to go first?
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:55.599
I'm thinking I was just gonna say every situation is different, obviously.
00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:02.480
Maybe not every parent bounces back as quickly or bounces back at all.
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:08.400
But and this might not be easy, but just kind of put yourself in their shoes.
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:24.800
Like if if the shoes are them trying to better themselves, just put yourselves in those put yourselves in their shoes and just realize it's not easy, and just to give grace and time heals all.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:34.079
So just do what's best for you in that moment, and if in that moment is stepping stepping away, so you can heal as well, then you just need to express that.
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:37.280
And I think communication is key and honesty is key.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:45.440
That's something I did want to bring up is I think another reason our relationship is so strong is because we are so honest with each other.
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.679
Yeah, yeah, there's nothing to hide.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.599
I can ask you any question you would answer then and now.
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:52.480
Sure.
00:36:52.719 --> 00:37:02.400
So as long as the communication and honesty is can be built between parent and child, then the rest of it is just time.
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:03.679
Yeah.
00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:04.960
That's kind of how I see it.
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:06.480
Yeah, that's good.
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:07.519
That's valid.
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:08.159
That's good.
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:21.280
Um, I would say to any children of you know, of parents who are addicted out there, I would say maybe recommend to your parents Dr.
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:28.880
Dallas Bragg um he may be able to work miracles.
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:31.679
Thanks.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:40.400
Thanks for the I was also gonna say, and my to like parent is vi is the same, basically.
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:44.559
Put yourself in their shoes and understand how prioritized that they might be.
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:45.119
Yeah.
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:47.679
They also have to heal in a different way.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:48.400
Yeah.
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:50.000
So that's all I was gonna say.
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:50.800
Mm-hmm.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:38:12.880
Well, and also, you know, we mentioned your mom a few times here, but I just wanna I wanna give a shout out to her in that she could have at some point done something legally to keep me from seeing you two based on my felony charges, based on, you know, the the criminal justice, crim uh justice involvement.
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:14.559
And she didn't.
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:21.360
You know, I I visited her once and I begged her not to, um, and she decided not to.
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.079
And I'm so glad that she did.
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:28.480
Because I I I I I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't see you.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:36.480
I mean, you were you were my lifelines, and and maybe maybe that wasn't right to put that on you, but you definitely were my lifelines for a long time.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:44.159
Yeah, big shout-outs to her, because you know that was very selfless of her.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:44.719
Yeah.
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:47.760
So yeah, definitely appreciated shout-outs.
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:50.960
If she did do that, we would be in a whole different scenario, I think.
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:51.920
Yeah, who knows?
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:56.400
To bond with each other to have that great bond after.
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:57.199
Yeah.
00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:57.760
Yeah.
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:03.519
So I had the benefit of a lot of people believing in me.
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:04.719
You know?
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:05.599
Yeah.
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:07.119
I had the benefit.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:11.599
And I think it's again, it goes back to the relationships beforehand.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:12.480
Yeah.
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:32.320
Um, and so I I I would say to you, if you're listening, if the rel you know, if people aren't believing in you, if you haven't if people are turning their back on you, you know, there there may have been there may have been something not established or some some kind of seat of distrust beforehand.
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:42.719
But it if you really just zero in on yourself and just become better and a better version of yourself, an expanded version of yourself more every single day.
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.599
Just keep your you know, keep your eyes on you.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.119
I I really believe the rest of it comes falls into place.
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.360
It may take a lot of time, but it will.
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:54.239
I completely agree with that.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:54.719
I agree.
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.639
You just gotta trust the process.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.280
I can't, I'm not saying this out of experience.
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:05.920
I haven't been in that situation, but you know, I know there's similar situations out there where you do just need to trust the process.
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:10.079
Don't worry about the end goal, don't worry about the end goal that you want or anything.
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:13.440
Just every day, just focus on the present, pretty much.
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:21.199
Um, what's next for us, you think?
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.079
A big trip.
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:27.199
What'd you say?
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:28.960
Me?
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:29.599
Yeah.
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:30.239
Yeah.
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:33.679
It's probably not appropriate.
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:35.280
Probably not.
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:36.239
Probably not.
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:42.960
Yes, we're trying we're going to try to make it take a big trip for to celebrate my 50th sometime early next year, hopefully.
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:44.480
Um, but we'll see.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:59.199
Um, I I wanted to keep this kind of short just because, you know, we uh don't have a lot to say, but I did, I just whatever we said, I hope that it inspires you to know that there is life after chem sex.
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:05.039
There is life after myth, and there are restoration of relationships.
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:12.079
Um and people, you know, it it it may not it may look bleak, but it can happen.
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:15.599
And um, I'm a living example of that, and these two are too.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:21.280
So and I just wanted to say, you know, again to both of you, really love you, really appreciate you.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:29.119
Um, and I just look forward and I look forward to us continuing on this journey together.
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:31.519
Because it's only gonna go up from here.
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:32.639
That's right.
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:33.840
Yeah.
00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.599
I'm excited to live next to you on our street again.
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:39.360
Or just a street.
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:40.159
Yeah.
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:41.440
Wait, what?
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:45.679
She was excited to live with us to live together again.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:46.159
Yeah.
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.199
Or or just on a street or in the same neighborhood.
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:50.239
Whatever.
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:50.800
Right.
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:51.519
I didn't know we were.
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:52.400
It's gonna happen.
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:53.280
I see it.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:59.760
We are, and even if they decided to live next to where you are, because I doubt you're ever moving ever.
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:02.960
Was there anything else?
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:04.800
I'm just anything else.
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:06.880
Anything else you all wanted to say?
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:16.320
Well, again, I just want to, you know, like you were saying, I love you and I appreciate you um for all the steps forward that you've taken to get where you are now.
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:20.800
I couldn't be more proud of, you know, who you've become.
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:24.960
I mean, it's crazy, you know, just the transformation you've made.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:33.840
Um, you know, not only you went through a meth addiction, you quit a very strong addiction, which was not easy.
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:43.599
Um, again, not saying from experience, but I know that was not easy, but you did what you needed to do, and now you're helping other people do the same.
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:46.320
So which is crazy.
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:56.000
As horrible of a time that that was to go through, you would not be where you are with this podcast, with what you're doing in your career now.
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.000
And I think that this is your calling.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:01.360
I think this is what you were meant to do is to help people through this.
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:06.320
And you've already helped, I'm sure, a number of people.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:12.000
And the fact that it just grows and more people look up to you as well.
00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:13.920
I think that's very inspiring.
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:20.320
And you are my built-in therapist, whether you like it or not.
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:21.039
Yeah.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:30.159
Um just because I know you're so wise, because of all the stories, or I mean all the things that have happened to you just in general.
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:35.119
Like you know what great advice to give, I guess.
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:36.639
Yeah.
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.400
And maybe I listen to it too well.
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:39.519
Maybe I don't know.
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:40.719
Maybe so.
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:42.239
Blindsided.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:42.880
Yeah.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.400
Yeah, there is a rule between us.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.360
Like, I don't offer advice unless it's asked of me.
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:49.920
So that is that is a rule.
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:51.840
That is a rule that I have set for me.
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:57.360
I I will sit back and let them make their mistakes um on their own.
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.679
And if which is good.
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:02.320
And if you but you've won my advice, I'm always ready.
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:02.880
Yeah.
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:03.440
Yeah.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.119
So yeah.
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:05.679
All right.
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:06.960
Thank you guys for being here.
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.920
Really appreciate you taking your time to be on the podcast.
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:14.480
And um if you're you're welcome.
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:24.480
Um, you listeners, you want to have joining the conversation, you feel free to comment on YouTube or comment on Spotify, or you can DM me um on all the social media channels.
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.239
I'd be happy to talk to you.
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:27.119
All right.
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:28.159
Thank you guys again.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.119
Love you for your listening.
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.639
We'll see you next week.