Overcoming Depression: Staying the Course Through Failure and Faith | Ft Michael Cirillo

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Welcome to the Optimizing Beyond podcast. I'm
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Josh Negron, and this show is all about sharing
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lessons, ideas, and strategies that sharpen your
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thinking, strengthen your habits, and push you
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to grow beyond comfort zones. Let's dive in.
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All right, today we are joined by Michael Cirillo,
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the host of the Dealer Playbook podcast and CEO
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of FlexDealer. Michael, welcome to the show today.
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Hey, buddy. It's always good to... share time
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with you. Very much so. Very much so. I appreciate
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you being on the show. We talk about everything
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optimizing from tech, health, mental health,
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and all those things. First of all, your story
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is from phone books to digital automotive marketing.
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Can you walk us through that journey? Man, I
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mean, 1982, my dad starts a phone book company
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out of complete desperation. Actually, if you
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rewind a little bit. Before that, my dad started
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in Vancouver, Canada, the first credit card style
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VIP buying group discount card and had no experience
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to do something like this. It was just an idea.
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And he ended up building that company. Basically,
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I mean, these are all over the place now. You
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get points on your credit card. It's like all
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built in. But back then. It was a really novel
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idea to have almost like a credit card style,
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you know, discount card that you could go into
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any participating retailer any time of the year
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and qualify for exclusive savings. He grew that
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company and it went public. Wow. And then lost
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everything. And I'll spare you, like Steve Martin
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says, I'll spare you the details there. But he
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lost everything and went into desperation mode,
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had three. daughters, a young wife. I'm on the
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way, I think, at this point. And he's depressed
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and hopeless and doesn't know what to do. And
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the day, really, and this is going to sound grim
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for a minute, but the day he was convinced he
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needed to go blow his brains out, he was leaving
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the house. After being bedridden for like six
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months, having lost everything, owing investors
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back then like half a million dollars in money
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that he had lost of theirs and all that kind
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of stuff. He recalls my mom holding my older
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sister and the two other sisters standing at
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the top of the stairs and just saying, no matter
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what, we love you. And that caused him to, instead
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of going out and doing what he thought he needed
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to do, it caused him a lot of reflection. soul
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searching if you will and he came back and at
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some point in that in that journey he came back
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and he said there's no competition to the yellow
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pages like why would that even be a thought you
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know experience publishing like no experience
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in phone books like no no experience competing
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against the one of the largest companies in the
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country the yellow pages But he said there's
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no competition in the Yellow Pages, so he empties
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his bank account at a pawn shop, buys a typewriter,
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and that night, all night, is copying phone numbers
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manually from the Yellow Pages into a manuscript
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of what will become his phone book, goes out
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and sells the advertising all alone. has this
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idea in that process, and I think this might
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feed into a little bit of the conversation today
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because it's definitely something that I've taken.
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In the process of that movement, each little
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iteration gives him clarity of what to do next.
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Wait, the Yellow Pages is for all of Vancouver.
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That's a phone book the size of a massive textbook.
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What if we did suburb, like community -based
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phone books so they're smaller and they're more
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achievable? And then that leads to him selling
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this phone book. It comes out. It gets published.
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He figures all that stuff out. And he recalls
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getting a phone call from the Chamber of Commerce
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for the community that he launched this phone
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book upset. And he's like, oh, my gosh, what
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did I do wrong? And they're basically saying,
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do you know how many? Companies in our area are
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so mad that you did not approach them to advertising
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your phone book. Wow. And that started what became,
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you know, a very lucrative career in family business,
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publishing phone books. We were the first phone
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book company to introduce full addresses and,
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you know, Canada postal codes or zip codes. We
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were the first ones to introduce all color advertising.
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So the yellow pages weren't just yellow anymore.
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They were full color. We were the first ones
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to introduce restaurant menus and things that
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just outside of the box, things that were really
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challenging the norm. And it started from there.
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And the reason I share all of that, I think it's
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important to have that context because what...
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came from an absolutely grim, dire circumstance,
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laid a very powerful concrete foundation for
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lessons that I've learned, that I've taken and
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built from in my career and in my life in general.
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Observing my parents, and I'll include both of
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them because my mom worked in the business, we
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all worked in the business, but as business partners,
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watching her be mom and technically quote unquote
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stay at home mom managing the household but also
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laboring next to him in the business and then
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us i mean 10 years old for michael cerillo was
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you yeah hang out with your friends and also
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here's all the chores and also we need you to
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proofread these you know phone numbers and names
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and addresses in a phone book because that has
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to be done first because this is how we live
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and you're a part of it uh and so you know that
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was that was the norm it was everybody kind of
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pulls their weight now In context and being a
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dad myself now and operating businesses, I know
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that everyone pulls their weight really means
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dad's pulling most of the weight, but doing an
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incredible job at masking that and making the
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kids think they're really like heaving and hoeing.
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But I'm grateful for that because that lays the
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foundation for what comes next. In 1993, my dad
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calls us into his office. And he says, watch
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this. And he connects to the internet. Home internet's
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like new in Canada in 93. You know, you connect
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to the satellites. You know, somebody can't be
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on the phone at the same time or else it'll ruin
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the connection. And he says, watch this. And
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he loads the Encyclopedia Britannica website.
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It was one of like, I don't know, 10 web, five,
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10 websites at the time that you could access.
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And we were all gathered around his desk in his
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office. And he turns around like Dr. Claw from
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Inspector Gadget, you know, like. turns his chair
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around and looks at us and I'll never forget
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it. He said, this is going to kill the encyclopedia
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salesperson. And what he was really saying is
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here is something that is going to not interrupt,
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but disrupt. And there's a big difference between
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those two concepts. This is going to disrupt
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the way that things currently happen. And he
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was so right. He saw it as, Oh gosh. The ability
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to access information here means that I no longer
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have to have a vacuum salesperson come to my
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door, an ointment salesperson, encyclopedia salesperson
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or whatever else. I mean, really, to that degree,
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do we even need door to door roofers and door
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to door? Like, who knows? You could argue it
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either way. No one will ever need to look in
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a phone book ever again. It will all be in that
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computer. And so it wasn't but five years before
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he sold the phone book company, which ended up
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being franchised almost right across Canada.
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We had franchises and communities and, you know,
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majority of the Canadian provinces. And that
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led to now teenage Michael in the family business.
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where my dad's like, well, what are we going
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to do next? He knew publishing. He followed demand.
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And he was like, there's no competition to auto
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trader. This is like a thing with my dad. He's
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like, wait, there's no competitor to that? How
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is that even possible? And so he started a little
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automotive magazine, you know, just like what
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you'd pick up at a gas station or something like
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that. And I remember this very clearly. He's
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like, okay. Michael, suit up, white shirt, tie,
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put on your Sunday suit. You're going to drive
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two hours in that direction. I'm going to drive
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two hours in that direction. We're going to visit
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every dealership on the way back to home. P .S.,
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if you don't sell something, we starve. And I'm
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like, let's see, I'm 16, 17. Yeah, okay. Popping
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into a little Kia Rio, you know, and five -speed
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Kia Rio stick shift and cruising. And feeling
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absolutely terrified because I've never sold
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anything before. And at this point, we didn't
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have a mock -up of the magazine. There was no
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prototype. There were no graphic designs that
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I could even show somebody. I had a zip -up pleather
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binder with order sheets in it. Did I sell anything
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that day? No. Did we starve? Also no. Were things
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tight? Very much so. And I hated him for that
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in that moment. And today, you know, 43 -year
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-old Michael looks back and I'm like, that is
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one of the best things he could have done for
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me to help me understand what it actually looks
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like and what it takes. You know, Patrick Bet
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-David posted a picture a little while ago and
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it was him and his sons. They were... sitting,
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I might've been at the Charlie Kirk Memorial.
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They're sitting there, they're in their suits
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looking sharp. And the caption really was bring
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your children into your world. Like show them
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your world. And I realized now that's exactly
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what my dad was doing for me. He's like, you're
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going to see my world. You're going to see what
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this takes, what it takes to do something. The
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most powerful thing that came from that is he
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taught me how to sell and tell stories and paint
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pictures with my words. which is so powerful
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even today when we have an abundance of, well,
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I can show you a mock -up, and I can show you
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what it'll look like, and here's the whole prototype,
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and we kind of get stuck in this perfection mindset.
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Even to this day in our companies, you have to
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think about this. I've never had a slide deck.
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I've never had a fancy presentation. I've never
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shown behind the scenes, oh, hey, let me show
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you the results. People are buying into the vision
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that I'm setting for them with my words because
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it has nothing to do with me. It has everything
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to do with them and the transformation that they
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can experience. And some people might wonder,
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well, like, what's the proof then? Where are
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your receipts? The receipts are that I work in
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a very lucrative and a very Shark Tank -esque
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industry. Where people will rip you apart if
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you do not get results and they will do it publicly
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and they will talk to their peer groups and they
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will talk to whatever. And that becomes the proof
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point to the thesis because I don't have enough
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money, Josh, to pay people off to not say bad
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things about me. And so either they are all fools
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or they are all lazy or it works. And there's
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kind of no middle ground there. Right. When it
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doesn't work, they cancel. When it does work,
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they stay forever. And for a company that we
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have where everything's month to month and we
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don't handcuff our partners into long -term contracts,
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they're the ones that are choosing to stay. And
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we believe that our actions and our behavior
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and our partnership and how we meet them should
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be a factor into them wanting to stay a partner
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of ours. I learned all of that. From what I thought
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as a 16 or 17 year old was the worst experience
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of my life. And and you have to everybody has
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to pass through that. Refiners fire, so to speak,
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if they want the results and the benefits that
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can come down the road. So without those reps,
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you wouldn't have seen the what you enjoy today.
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Without the reps, the tears, the. feeling sometimes
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the, you know, a lot of people, I think, get
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it backwards. They're like, well, I'm going to
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go my entire life trying to avoid all of those
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feelings, those emotions, those heartaches. Those
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are the things that give you ground to then think
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about solutions, to then think about creativity
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and innovation. There's no innovation without
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failure. and profit and hardship. It's those
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things that actually push us to innovate and
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be creative and come up with solutions. What
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are you looking for solutions for if there's
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no problem? So true. So how do you deal with,
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you know, you've practiced these things. How
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do you deal with clients that, you know, you're
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not, you mentioned you're not handcuffing your
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clients, but there are going to be clients that
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don't have the same maturity that you do in the
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relationship. So the common play is to, if you're
00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.779
not happy with a vendor or a marketer, to grow
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in your displeasure until you finally just cancel
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without saying anything. So how do you handle
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that lack of opportunity for you to change, optimize,
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and adapt to what your consumer, what your customer
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needs? The first step is that you have to get
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canceled. Which stinks. I have a love -hate relationship
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with failure. I hate how it feels in the moment
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that it's happening. But I would be remiss if
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I didn't admit that the life I enjoy today is
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on the back of so much failure. So the first
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step there is you have to get canceled. And you
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have to experience what that feels like. And
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you have... You know what I love, and this kind
00:15:26.090 --> 00:15:27.809
of feeds into the larger narrative, I think,
00:15:27.809 --> 00:15:30.049
of the question you're asking, which is you have
00:15:30.049 --> 00:15:32.789
to also respect that everyone has their agency
00:15:32.789 --> 00:15:36.070
to choose. And so inherent in that also means
00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:40.190
that I have my agency to choose how I will respond
00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:44.750
to that circumstance. Will I be the one who says,
00:15:44.870 --> 00:15:48.490
oh, my gosh, what is going on? Everything's falling
00:15:48.490 --> 00:15:51.690
apart. What have I done? What could I have done
00:15:51.690 --> 00:15:57.570
better? Or, same question, change in tone, what
00:15:57.570 --> 00:16:01.690
could I have done better so that I can do it
00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:05.629
for the next one and change it? And so the partnerships
00:16:05.629 --> 00:16:08.049
we have today, are they all perfect? No, they're
00:16:08.049 --> 00:16:10.450
not. That's part of the messiness of life and
00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:14.110
dealing with sentient beings' agency to choose.
00:16:16.169 --> 00:16:19.450
We can control the controllables. We can meet
00:16:19.450 --> 00:16:22.490
regularly as a team. We can talk about vision
00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:26.230
and mission and culture and core values. We can
00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:29.509
train on those things. We can debrief after calls.
00:16:29.830 --> 00:16:33.509
We can, as leaders, ask for regular updates and
00:16:33.509 --> 00:16:37.149
status reports. Hey, how is ABC partner doing?
00:16:37.769 --> 00:16:41.269
Where would you rate them? Yellow? Are they red?
00:16:41.549 --> 00:16:45.090
Are they green? If they're green, why are they
00:16:45.090 --> 00:16:48.740
green? See, most people don't ask the why question
00:16:48.740 --> 00:16:51.720
in the good times. They only wait for the bad
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:54.019
times. If they're yellow, why are they yellow?
00:16:54.139 --> 00:16:57.039
If they're red, why are they red? And now because
00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:59.919
we're talking facts, not emotions, we're separating
00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:02.899
the two. Then let's meet those facts with actions.
00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:05.859
You know, we've had experiences of failure, even
00:17:05.859 --> 00:17:07.880
with partners. And what we found is that when
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.440
we meet the failure with action and accountability
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.220
and ownership. Then what you're doing is you're
00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:18.319
giving another person's agency to choose grace
00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.259
over anger. It actually deepens the relationship
00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:26.200
even further because what do we all want? We
00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.099
all want someone who's willing to take ownership,
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:32.859
who's willing to clean up their mess, make it
00:17:32.859 --> 00:17:37.160
right. We all actually, I think, desire more
00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:39.660
people like that in our circles of influence.
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.539
What we don't want, what we want less of is people
00:17:43.539 --> 00:17:47.619
that pretend they're perfect, who are so shallow
00:17:47.619 --> 00:17:49.599
on the inside, they can't ever take ownership
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.680
or accountability for anything. And so you have
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.900
to know, I mean, for those that are maybe just
00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:58.339
getting started, maybe somebody that's listening
00:17:58.339 --> 00:18:00.460
just got their first cancellation and then they're
00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:03.920
heartbroken over it because now it means money's
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.519
a little more tight or whatever it is. You have
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.240
to think. Well, if you're just getting started,
00:18:10.420 --> 00:18:13.460
your number one objective is to cover your basic
00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:16.579
physiological needs. That's why it hurts so much
00:18:16.579 --> 00:18:18.740
because now you're feeling the wolf on your doorstep.
00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:22.799
However, you also have the ability to choose
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:29.140
to never get comfortable. And if you are never
00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:32.319
comfortable, then you are constantly striving.
00:18:33.150 --> 00:18:35.769
And if you're constantly striving, then your
00:18:35.769 --> 00:18:39.150
pipeline should be more full than it is. One
00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:41.309
of the biggest mistakes we had in our early days
00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:44.490
of building Flex is that we would get a cancellation,
00:18:44.549 --> 00:18:47.289
but we had nobody in the hopper to replace that
00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:50.750
revenue with. And that's where the pain comes
00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:54.430
from. So Josh, I made it my mission. I was so
00:18:54.430 --> 00:19:00.109
unsatisfied with that feeling. And I was unsatisfied
00:19:00.109 --> 00:19:03.299
with my... I had to be accountable for myself
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:09.039
for choosing mediocrity. That I made it my mission
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:14.339
to have so many opportunities that somebody canceling
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:18.779
would be a relief. So you find the people you
00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:21.720
really, really want to work with. Yeah. I mean,
00:19:21.740 --> 00:19:24.720
you know this. I really don't have a desire to
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:27.359
be one of these companies in the automotive industry
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:32.140
that has 4 ,000 customers. That sounds like a,
00:19:32.140 --> 00:19:36.319
whoa, a nightmare. Not because of the customers,
00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:39.259
not because there aren't great people, but it's
00:19:39.259 --> 00:19:43.200
the logistics, the hiring that you have to, like,
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:46.579
do you, like, does anybody, we wear this as a
00:19:46.579 --> 00:19:48.420
badge of honor, I think, too much in business.
00:19:48.539 --> 00:19:54.660
We have 2 ,700 employees in 13 countries. Cool.
00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:59.549
What I just heard is you have no life. And if
00:19:59.549 --> 00:20:03.009
that's your decision, mazel tov. But that's what's
00:20:03.009 --> 00:20:06.210
cool about life is when you stop comparing against
00:20:06.210 --> 00:20:09.009
somebody else's definition of success and just
00:20:09.009 --> 00:20:11.529
take more time to figure out what your definition
00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:14.690
of success is, then life is enjoyable. You're
00:20:14.690 --> 00:20:16.869
living it on your terms. There's no better feeling
00:20:16.869 --> 00:20:19.569
than knowing you are living the path that you've
00:20:19.569 --> 00:20:22.609
chosen. And so you have to get the cancellation.
00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:27.549
You have to take inventory on your attitude.
00:20:28.190 --> 00:20:32.170
Am I a victim or am I a victor? You have to then
00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:34.529
implement some of those actions. You have to
00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:36.549
be willing to ask people what you could have
00:20:36.549 --> 00:20:39.430
done better. You have to be willing to have meaningful,
00:20:39.829 --> 00:20:43.329
sometimes tough conversations with yourself and
00:20:43.329 --> 00:20:45.890
with your team because you are, like I said,
00:20:45.910 --> 00:20:48.210
stripping the emotion out and marrying facts
00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:51.210
to action. This happened. What's the appropriate
00:20:51.210 --> 00:20:54.609
response? The last thing I'll say to that point
00:20:54.609 --> 00:20:58.210
that's on my mind is the word response is very
00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:02.549
strategic and very intentional. Most people react.
00:21:03.170 --> 00:21:07.009
That's right. And the tough thing about a reaction
00:21:07.009 --> 00:21:11.329
for me is it's instinctual. Like if we were in
00:21:11.329 --> 00:21:13.589
the same room and I kicked you in the shin, your
00:21:13.589 --> 00:21:15.890
reaction would be instinctual. You'd go, ah.
00:21:16.470 --> 00:21:20.170
A response is so much more intentional. It's,
00:21:20.170 --> 00:21:23.750
wait, let me internalize the way that. felt let
00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:29.009
me think through my next action and then act
00:21:29.009 --> 00:21:31.950
so anybody that's thinking about this and maybe
00:21:31.950 --> 00:21:33.970
they're in a situation like this or they're experiencing
00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:41.509
hardship my plea is stop reacting start practicing
00:21:41.509 --> 00:21:44.829
a response plan and by the way what's so cool
00:21:44.829 --> 00:21:47.269
about a response plan and maybe we'll get into
00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:55.099
this is You can plan that in advance. Like you
00:21:55.099 --> 00:21:58.640
can say, if I experience situation A, I will
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.700
respond in this way before it even happens. You
00:22:01.700 --> 00:22:04.579
can anticipate for it. Circumstance B happens,
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.799
I will respond in this way and so on and so forth.
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.319
Just think of the impact, not just in business,
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:14.599
in life. If my teenager crashes the car, I will
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:18.839
respond in this way. If they talk back to their
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.640
mother. I will respond in this way. We see it
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.160
all the time on social media. The kids that,
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:28.200
you know, probably need a little more structure
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.900
at home who film the reaction of a parent to
00:22:31.900 --> 00:22:35.059
one of the things that they do. And we love watching
00:22:35.059 --> 00:22:37.259
those videos because some of us are like, right
00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:40.000
on, dad, you whooped his butt, you know, or whatever
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.680
it is. Imagine what that same video would look
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.619
like if dad had a measured response pre -meditated.
00:22:49.710 --> 00:22:52.549
To the scenarios that we face in life, because
00:22:52.549 --> 00:22:55.109
life is messy and business is messy and we're
00:22:55.109 --> 00:22:58.869
messy, you know? And so reaction versus response.
00:22:59.430 --> 00:23:03.930
That's how I deal with the unexpected, I guess.
00:23:05.089 --> 00:23:08.430
I mean, that plays right into into the mental
00:23:08.430 --> 00:23:11.029
health conversation that we talk a lot about
00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:14.990
here. And so, I mean, obviously, you've been
00:23:14.990 --> 00:23:17.049
very open with your mental health journey over
00:23:17.049 --> 00:23:20.769
the years publicly. And so how have you seen
00:23:20.769 --> 00:23:24.910
things like that shift over time as far as, you
00:23:24.910 --> 00:23:27.289
know, we've discussed the willingness to be uncomfortable
00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:30.349
and hold yourself against that edge? And then
00:23:30.349 --> 00:23:33.450
also, you know, the ability to respond versus
00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:37.170
react. How has that shifted for you in your early
00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:39.809
days versus now? Well, that's a great question.
00:23:39.990 --> 00:23:44.650
And I would say when I was burdened with depression,
00:23:44.910 --> 00:23:50.740
when it was my thing. And suicidal thoughts and
00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:55.579
hopelessness and derealization, right? That feeling
00:23:55.579 --> 00:23:57.960
of, I know I'm here, but I'm not here and I hate
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.019
it. It's just the worst feeling ever, right?
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:06.539
I'll admit, there was not even a reaction. There
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:10.559
was a paralysis. And yeah, I guess scientifically
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.279
you could argue that that is in and of itself
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:17.730
a reaction, right? Paralysis. But it was like,
00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:23.890
no hope. Life sucks. People suck. I suck. I remember
00:24:23.890 --> 00:24:26.769
not knowing what was wrong with me. Like that
00:24:26.769 --> 00:24:30.490
became the downward spiral. What is happening
00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:34.210
to me? Why am I so angry? Why am I so tired?
00:24:35.130 --> 00:24:38.170
Why don't I want to do anything? I have zero
00:24:38.170 --> 00:24:42.049
desire or ambition to do anything. What is happening?
00:24:42.430 --> 00:24:47.420
And then you go, what did I do wrong? And then
00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:50.839
you go, I was raised in a great home with a good
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:54.160
family. Like now I'm feeling guilty for feeling
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.279
guilty. So it must be me. Like what's, yeah.
00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:00.720
What is going on? And, and also marry that with
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:06.240
I'm broke and life sucks. And is it really, is
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:08.440
that, I remember, you know, I would call my parents
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.140
and I'd be like, when you were 25, did you ever
00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:14.440
experience this kind of feeling? And they'd be
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.779
like, no. I'm like, well i'm a screw up because
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:21.059
i was trying to find my footing and i it was
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:24.619
like there was no footing to be had and like
00:25:24.619 --> 00:25:28.440
i felt like i was being deceived like i was walking
00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:33.519
onto a body of water that looked so still it
00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.660
was a solid but every time i'd step in i would
00:25:36.660 --> 00:25:40.339
just sink to the bottom like it deceived me you
00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:45.269
know everything was so deceiving and i was In
00:25:45.269 --> 00:25:50.509
that state for probably seven years before I
00:25:50.509 --> 00:25:55.509
was like, either life is really this crappy and
00:25:55.509 --> 00:26:00.430
I'm out of here or something's not right and
00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:03.569
I'm not seeing it right. I remember going to
00:26:03.569 --> 00:26:05.970
the doctor. They have this assessment that they
00:26:05.970 --> 00:26:10.329
ask you a bunch of questions and him being like,
00:26:10.470 --> 00:26:14.630
you're suicidal. We need to get you help. We
00:26:14.630 --> 00:26:17.150
need to get you help. I went through all of the
00:26:17.150 --> 00:26:19.650
feelings that I think a lot of people may experience,
00:26:19.869 --> 00:26:23.630
which is ashamed. Me? Talk to a psychiatrist?
00:26:25.309 --> 00:26:30.069
Ew. Really? No. Right? Stigma, stigma, negative
00:26:30.069 --> 00:26:32.569
stigma, right? Looming over, oh, you need to
00:26:32.569 --> 00:26:35.730
go talk to a shrink. I dealt with that. My now
00:26:35.730 --> 00:26:40.630
wife, then fiance, Cara. was a great support
00:26:40.630 --> 00:26:43.829
in this because she never like argued with me
00:26:43.829 --> 00:26:46.069
about like, what's wrong with you? She never
00:26:46.069 --> 00:26:48.789
like, I'm really blessed that she's in my life
00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:53.369
because she was just like, this is an awful analogy,
00:26:53.609 --> 00:26:56.490
but you know, sometimes we win with our analogies
00:26:56.490 --> 00:26:58.990
and sometimes we, we lose, this is probably going
00:26:58.990 --> 00:27:01.210
to lose. But the best thing I can think of is
00:27:01.210 --> 00:27:05.690
like, you know, support dogs when they know their,
00:27:05.690 --> 00:27:08.170
their owner's about to have a seizure. So they
00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:11.700
like, They like kind of stand up and they, they
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:14.000
like, it's a signal and they're like, sit down.
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.200
And then the dog just lays on them and comforts
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.740
them guys. No, I'm not calling my wife a dog.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:25.539
Okay. But in that similar concept, she was the
00:27:25.539 --> 00:27:29.400
constant that never held it over me, but was
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:31.779
like, he's about to have an episode and I'm just
00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:34.980
going to not say anything. And I'm just going
00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:39.490
to be with him. And I'm just going to. rest on
00:27:39.490 --> 00:27:44.009
him so to speak and and and that's all i'm gonna
00:27:44.009 --> 00:27:47.250
do and that was a tremendous support to me so
00:27:47.250 --> 00:27:49.849
when i'm lamenting about going to this psychiatrist
00:27:49.849 --> 00:27:53.630
who's by the way his office was a disaster books
00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:56.789
all over the place papers hanging off of bookshelves
00:27:56.789 --> 00:28:00.890
barely any place to sit you know just smelt weird
00:28:00.890 --> 00:28:05.670
i remember my first session and i was like i'm
00:28:05.670 --> 00:28:07.769
gonna burn this place that i'm gonna burn this
00:28:07.769 --> 00:28:11.509
office down that was so pointless kara all he
00:28:11.509 --> 00:28:15.730
did was listen to me complain that is i feel
00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:19.049
like that's helpful at all right and she'd be
00:28:19.049 --> 00:28:21.150
like i really think you should keep going back
00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:23.089
though like just do what the just do what the
00:28:23.089 --> 00:28:26.390
doctor asked fine but i'm not gonna be happy
00:28:26.390 --> 00:28:28.210
about it and she's like well you're not you're
00:28:28.210 --> 00:28:30.630
not happy about anything so what difference does
00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:34.190
it so what does it make And you go back and you
00:28:34.190 --> 00:28:35.869
go back and you go back and you realize actually
00:28:35.869 --> 00:28:38.450
there's a method to the madness here because
00:28:38.450 --> 00:28:41.410
he's actually teaching you how to respond and
00:28:41.410 --> 00:28:44.349
not react. His office is a mess because he wants
00:28:44.349 --> 00:28:46.289
to see what you're going to do about it if you're
00:28:46.289 --> 00:28:49.009
going to take him seriously. He's like, you know,
00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:51.750
it's uncomfortable because what difference does
00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:53.809
it make? You're here because you're uncomfortable.
00:28:54.069 --> 00:28:56.630
So how are you going to respond to that? Maybe
00:28:56.630 --> 00:28:59.650
it's helping me identify in some small way. I
00:28:59.650 --> 00:29:01.940
don't know the psychology of it, but. Maybe in
00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:04.519
some small way, he's actually helping me identify
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:08.460
that I do have standards and I do have a threshold
00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:11.700
with which I actually won't go below and that
00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.059
I will hold myself accountable to, so on and
00:29:14.059 --> 00:29:16.380
so forth. And I don't really know when the shift
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:19.119
happened, man, but you start realizing I'm starting
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.119
to feel a little bit better. He waited for his
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.839
openings to just introduce small concepts so
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:31.609
easy to achieve. Like, hey. when's the last time
00:29:31.609 --> 00:29:35.230
you went for a walk never go for a walk but and
00:29:35.230 --> 00:29:37.509
just like five minutes just go for a five minute
00:29:37.509 --> 00:29:41.009
walk but don't look at your feet while you walk
00:29:41.009 --> 00:29:44.509
look as far into the distance as you can while
00:29:44.509 --> 00:29:48.049
you're walking okay and you do it and you're
00:29:48.049 --> 00:29:53.109
like that was kind of nice you know like and
00:29:53.109 --> 00:29:55.529
it's the little things what i've learned now
00:29:55.529 --> 00:29:59.029
what i've taken from all of that is And this
00:29:59.029 --> 00:30:00.990
is doctrinal, too. I mean, we see it all over
00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:08.490
the Bible. Small, simple, forward -moving. Calm.
00:30:09.789 --> 00:30:17.910
Right? Peace. Collect your mind. Gather your
00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:22.349
faculties. Take small steps. What is unnatural
00:30:22.349 --> 00:30:25.750
is what our carnal nature wants, which is completion
00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:32.680
right now. achievement right now that is so against
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.539
the truths of the universe that hold the ever
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:39.680
-expanding universe in their order and if we
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:43.180
exist in that universe then we must also be governed
00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:48.480
by the laws of that universe which rewards calculated
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:56.609
small progress continually over time never completion
00:30:56.609 --> 00:31:01.609
or achievement instantly. And I learned that
00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:05.809
through this process of finding my health and
00:31:05.809 --> 00:31:09.549
changing my mind. The other reason why any of
00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:12.430
this works, worked and why it stuck is because
00:31:12.430 --> 00:31:16.250
my distaste for living in this state for as long
00:31:16.250 --> 00:31:19.650
as I had, had exceeded a threshold for me in
00:31:19.650 --> 00:31:23.130
which I was willing now to do whatever it took.
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.559
I was so disgusted feeling this way that I was
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:29.420
willing to take the action to discover whether
00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:33.759
or not life really was this bad or if it could
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:37.619
change. And I think for a lot of people, they
00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:43.500
have to understand that change happens. The path
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:46.119
to transformation happens when you become so
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:50.400
unhappy. with your current state like you have
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.920
to want it more than you want to breathe you
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.859
know you have to want the transformation more
00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:59.099
than something else which is really the law of
00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:01.319
sacrifice you have to be willing to make room
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:05.880
for the new that you want to experience inherently
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:09.980
to make room you have to let go of or release
00:32:09.980 --> 00:32:14.880
something else i was so ready i was so tired
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:20.059
I was so tired of being sick and tired that it
00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:25.339
made way for the desire to experiment and see
00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:30.900
if life could be better. Now, were you still,
00:32:30.940 --> 00:32:35.319
I'm curious, were you still building, producing,
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:40.079
contributing to the things that you were growing
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:44.500
in this time, in these seven years? Yeah. I was
00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:46.480
thinking about this recently, what I'm about
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.519
to share with you and actually how I'm so grateful
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:53.380
for it. Depressed. Building every second. Let
00:32:53.380 --> 00:32:56.119
me see. Every first and third week were production
00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.940
weeks for the magazine that we were producing,
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:02.180
the competition auto trader. I was going to school
00:33:02.180 --> 00:33:05.759
full time every second and fourth week. I was
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:08.819
designing websites and software infrastructure
00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:11.980
for another. software product we have today and
00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:14.460
also in the that second and fourth week while
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:16.599
i'm designing websites and building marketing
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.700
plans and doing all these sorts of things as
00:33:18.700 --> 00:33:20.700
we're transitioning into the digital sphere more
00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:24.319
with our client partners i'd also have to deliver
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:27.099
the magazines that got published in weeks one
00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:31.940
and three to all over vancouver out into the
00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:33.880
suburbs you know i had a little i was driving
00:33:33.880 --> 00:33:41.940
a saturn sc2 coupe yeah um fire engine red, but
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:45.019
not fire engine metal, very much Mattel fire
00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:47.660
engine plastic. And I would load that thing up
00:33:47.660 --> 00:33:51.960
with 50 ,000 magazines. And my evenings after
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:55.319
all of that, after full -time school, after designing
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:58.460
sites, after designing the magazine and selling
00:33:58.460 --> 00:34:01.579
advertising and doing all those things was delivering
00:34:01.579 --> 00:34:04.319
those books all over the greater Vancouver area.
00:34:04.460 --> 00:34:08.860
And it was a dumpster fire season, dude. It was
00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:11.579
a shovel as much crap into your mouth as you
00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:14.480
possibly can and try and convince yourself that
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.219
it's chocolate. You know, it was rough. I'm not
00:34:18.219 --> 00:34:22.179
even going to sugarcoat it. It was rough. However,
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:24.320
this kind of goes back to the beginning. I look
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.039
back now. I wouldn't change any of it for the
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:30.440
world. I wouldn't change any of it for anything.
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:36.489
It taught me that even in what I. would agree
00:34:36.489 --> 00:34:40.809
in myself was my darkest period, that I was actually
00:34:40.809 --> 00:34:44.269
stronger than I was giving myself credit for,
00:34:44.389 --> 00:34:47.929
that I was actually more resilient than I thought,
00:34:48.150 --> 00:34:52.409
that I was actually more willing than I thought.
00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:54.570
And I look back now and I'm like, I wouldn't
00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:57.349
have anything I have accomplished today if I
00:34:57.349 --> 00:35:00.630
didn't learn that of myself. And I didn't learn
00:35:00.630 --> 00:35:03.329
it right away. I learned it over time, looking
00:35:03.329 --> 00:35:06.139
back. And I wouldn't change any of it. So for
00:35:06.139 --> 00:35:08.980
people that are eating crap right now, embrace
00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:13.760
it. It is refining you. It is strengthening you.
00:35:13.900 --> 00:35:17.219
It is teaching you so much about who you really
00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:20.860
are. You are not your name. You are not your
00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:25.400
circumstances. You are a divinely created entity
00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:31.980
endowed with power, endowed with faculties. with
00:35:31.980 --> 00:35:35.059
thoughts and impressions and feelings. You are
00:35:35.059 --> 00:35:42.119
an incredible identity and divinely created.
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.139
I really believe it. And that is why, when I
00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:51.320
look back, I see that version of me through a
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:56.159
much more empathetic lens. That powers so much
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:00.980
of how I choose to live my life now. That period
00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:03.699
of time, I didn't see it in the moment, Josh,
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.480
but today has become one of my greatest strengths.
00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:13.679
And it factors itself into pretty much everything.
00:36:13.820 --> 00:36:18.119
You and I are buddies. You and I know full well
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:21.440
that I can be the goofiest dude and also I can
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:25.460
lock in. And that being a goof and locking in
00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:28.639
are not mutually exclusive. Right. What do most
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.760
people do, though? They're like, I'm a goof.
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.940
And they assume that as their identity. And then
00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:36.659
they then they assume the behavior full time
00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:40.480
that goes with being goofy. And then their cohort
00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:43.960
labels them as goofy and never takes them seriously.
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.420
And then they train themselves to say, well,
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:51.579
then I'm just not good enough to, you know. Have
00:36:51.579 --> 00:36:54.000
what they have or to do what that guy does or
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.559
look at my. Hey, you didn't have to do any of
00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:00.670
that. You can be goofy and not be a goof. You
00:37:00.670 --> 00:37:06.170
can be locked in and not be uptight. But the
00:37:06.170 --> 00:37:10.590
reason I'm that way has come from over time being
00:37:10.590 --> 00:37:14.210
like, you know what? So many people are hard
00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:16.630
on themselves. So many people are struggling
00:37:16.630 --> 00:37:19.389
with something. I feel like heaven blessed me
00:37:19.389 --> 00:37:24.980
with comedic timing and an interest in it. And
00:37:24.980 --> 00:37:29.000
so it's a tool that I use often to provide relief
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:34.659
if I can. It's why I choose to crack jokes, sometimes
00:37:34.659 --> 00:37:37.579
in what the world would say is the wrong time.
00:37:38.739 --> 00:37:41.019
But for me, it's a pattern interrupt. Pattern
00:37:41.019 --> 00:37:43.280
interrupt, yeah. It's, you know, like when we
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.639
edit videos and we do a jump cut to re -get your
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:49.340
interest. And I do it because, and it's funny
00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:51.840
what happens. Most people won't admit it, and
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:53.900
I'm not tooting a horn here or boasting just
00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:56.820
simply to demonstrate this point. Most of the
00:37:56.820 --> 00:38:01.579
time afterwards, the endearing comments that
00:38:01.579 --> 00:38:04.780
I'll get, hey, man, I love the way you presented
00:38:04.780 --> 00:38:07.500
that, and I related to it, and that was such
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:10.659
a funny story, and it brought me joy, and my
00:38:10.659 --> 00:38:13.599
son heard it, and they loved that, and now you
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.699
got... You that created an opportunity for me
00:38:16.699 --> 00:38:18.659
and my child to connect and have an interesting
00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:20.980
conversation with each other. And I can't remember
00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:24.659
the last time we did that. I'm like that. None
00:38:24.659 --> 00:38:27.039
of it. I really believe none of it would happen
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.639
today if I didn't go through that period of time
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:33.099
in my life. If I didn't go through that experience,
00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:37.460
I firmly believe, dude, that weaknesses can become
00:38:37.460 --> 00:38:45.289
strengths. Strength through vulnerability. You
00:38:45.289 --> 00:38:49.429
mentioned your wife's support through this journey
00:38:49.429 --> 00:38:53.309
across some years, right? And so the first thought
00:38:53.309 --> 00:38:58.869
I had is, has she ever shared with you how she
00:38:58.869 --> 00:39:02.750
was able to keep your suffering separate from
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.679
uh separate from her in other words some sometimes
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.800
partners can internalize the suffering of their
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.519
partner especially when their partners like my
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:13.900
life is horrible and depression really clouds
00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:16.480
those things and so it's difficult for them to
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:18.699
not take those things personally like they that
00:39:18.699 --> 00:39:22.800
i hate our life together yeah it's funny just
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.260
yesterday at time of recording my wife and i
00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:27.699
were sharing some time together we were chatting
00:39:27.699 --> 00:39:31.659
and we were talking about kind of an adjacent
00:39:31.659 --> 00:39:34.159
topic to this. It had to do with mental health
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:36.940
and somebody we know that's struggling and it
00:39:36.940 --> 00:39:39.440
is having an impact on their marriage. And Kara
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:45.920
commented, well, it's almost like, were you really
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.739
even thinking of me while you were going through
00:39:48.739 --> 00:39:53.000
that? Here's the fascinating part of it. If she
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.500
asked me that question while I was going through
00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:58.480
it, my... I would have had a reaction and it
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.820
probably would have been like, oh, so now you're
00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:04.159
going to make this all about, yeah? 20 years
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:08.519
together, 17 years married later, me, who doesn't
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:11.260
feel that way, my response was, you might have
00:40:11.260 --> 00:40:16.179
been the only thought that kept me alive. So
00:40:16.179 --> 00:40:19.599
like, it's an interesting, fascinating question
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.929
you're posing here because It depends on where
00:40:22.929 --> 00:40:26.849
you are at in your health journey. And it goes
00:40:26.849 --> 00:40:28.690
a little bit deeper than that. It kind of ties
00:40:28.690 --> 00:40:31.269
into, actually, it doesn't kind of tie into it,
00:40:31.289 --> 00:40:35.070
really ties into faith, which is realizing that
00:40:35.070 --> 00:40:40.349
our Father in heaven is never holding me to my
00:40:40.349 --> 00:40:44.230
lowest. He only sees us in our fullest potential.
00:40:45.210 --> 00:40:48.710
That's why he provided us a Savior. If he hated
00:40:48.710 --> 00:40:51.989
us, He would have abandoned us a long time ago.
00:40:52.090 --> 00:40:54.190
He would have cracked the joke that sometimes
00:40:54.190 --> 00:40:57.389
parents crack, like, we'll try again and, you
00:40:57.389 --> 00:41:00.449
know, write this one off. No, he said, he said,
00:41:00.530 --> 00:41:03.610
because of your divine potential, because you
00:41:03.610 --> 00:41:07.210
are my creation, and because I understand the
00:41:07.210 --> 00:41:11.590
effects of the world in its fallen state, I will
00:41:11.590 --> 00:41:15.679
provide a savior for you who will. atone for
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:18.880
you and redeem you who is infinitely perfect.
00:41:19.900 --> 00:41:23.980
Think about that for a minute. We know the command,
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:26.199
be ye therefore perfect, even as your father
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:29.659
in heaven is perfect. We also know that perfection
00:41:29.659 --> 00:41:33.380
is not achievable in this mortal state. But what's
00:41:33.380 --> 00:41:34.920
interesting about it, and I'm going to tie it
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:39.110
back to Kara is, but we have the opportunity,
00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:43.789
Josh, to enter into a covenantal relationship
00:41:43.789 --> 00:41:49.750
with someone who is infinitely perfect. How do
00:41:49.750 --> 00:41:52.090
I tie that back to Kara? Kara's always been great
00:41:52.090 --> 00:41:54.889
with her money. Always. When we got married,
00:41:55.010 --> 00:41:57.630
I mean, savings, all the things that college
00:41:57.630 --> 00:42:01.030
-age students usually don't have. I was the complete
00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:05.570
contrast to that. I was like, eat food or buy
00:42:05.570 --> 00:42:09.679
a guitar. Yeah. Right. You and I are very similar
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:12.960
in that. And bought a guitar. You know, nice
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.480
little Les Paul. Didn't eat. Bad with my money.
00:42:16.780 --> 00:42:20.619
I remember once I needed a laptop for school
00:42:20.619 --> 00:42:23.500
and I went to Best Buy, got a Best Buy card.
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.139
Felt so excited about this credit. You know,
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:30.239
I don't have to pay right away. Cool, man. And
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:33.400
I bought a bunch of DVDs, like maybe $100, $120
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:37.420
worth of DVDs, movies that I enjoyed. and they're
00:42:37.420 --> 00:42:39.059
like you want the 12 months no interest plan
00:42:39.059 --> 00:42:42.800
i'm like heck yeah 12 months no payments no interest
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.360
amazing a couple months later i bought a laptop
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:50.940
for school and the laptop i mean back then gosh
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:54.039
is like a compact whatever that brand was you
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:57.239
know compact whatever it weighed 450 pounds and
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:59.809
i bought that on my best buy card I should have
00:42:59.809 --> 00:43:02.690
read the fine print. I should have realized that
00:43:02.690 --> 00:43:04.989
I did not buy the Best Buy card on a 12 month,
00:43:05.110 --> 00:43:07.130
no interest, no payments plan. I bought it on
00:43:07.130 --> 00:43:10.989
a six month, no interest, no payments plan. And
00:43:10.989 --> 00:43:14.949
if any of the plans on your card are voided for
00:43:14.949 --> 00:43:18.489
not following the terms and conditions, then
00:43:18.489 --> 00:43:22.730
your entire card balance is now due this instant
00:43:22.730 --> 00:43:28.199
with a 29 .79 % interest rate and a year. maybe
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:31.159
almost 18 months goes by and I get a call from
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:35.800
a collector. Hmm. What would have only been like
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:40.260
maybe a thousand dollars or 1500 bucks. Cause
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:42.400
laptops back then were really, really expensive.
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:49.920
Um, was a $6 ,000 collection bill. Whoa. And
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:53.059
I, bro, you don't believe in the resurrection.
00:43:53.179 --> 00:43:58.579
I do because my ghost left my body. And then
00:43:58.579 --> 00:44:02.539
reentered it sometime the next day. Where am
00:44:02.539 --> 00:44:06.960
I going with this? I dealt with that all leading
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:10.420
up to getting married. I went through the I can
00:44:10.420 --> 00:44:15.219
only make a minimum payment of $14 and watching
00:44:15.219 --> 00:44:21.199
the hole get deeper and deeper and deeper. And
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:25.780
then. Kara and I get married, okay? So listen
00:44:25.780 --> 00:44:29.539
with the physical and the spiritual ears. I enter
00:44:29.539 --> 00:44:33.380
into a relationship with someone who was infinitely
00:44:33.380 --> 00:44:39.179
perfect. Good credit, good habits, good finances.
00:44:39.739 --> 00:44:43.699
And guess what? All of a sudden, in a faster
00:44:43.699 --> 00:44:45.920
period of time than I could have ever imagined,
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:53.449
the debt was paid. And... Almost instantly after
00:44:53.449 --> 00:44:56.829
we got married, banks were offering me credit
00:44:56.829 --> 00:45:01.309
cards again and offering me financial options
00:45:01.309 --> 00:45:04.550
again, where they had all written me off. How
00:45:04.550 --> 00:45:07.150
often do we write ourselves off? I'm not good
00:45:07.150 --> 00:45:11.489
enough. I can't. It will never. Not realizing
00:45:11.489 --> 00:45:14.469
we have the opportunity to enter into a relationship
00:45:14.469 --> 00:45:16.510
with somebody who is infinitely perfect, who
00:45:16.510 --> 00:45:19.929
not only will help us pay the debt, has already
00:45:19.929 --> 00:45:24.130
paid the debt. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Imagine what would
00:45:24.130 --> 00:45:28.250
happen to any of us who start reframing our thoughts,
00:45:28.269 --> 00:45:32.570
small steps upon small steps to say, wait, he's
00:45:32.570 --> 00:45:36.389
got me. He paid the price for what I'm experiencing
00:45:36.389 --> 00:45:39.070
right now. I don't have to hold myself to this
00:45:39.070 --> 00:45:42.590
low when he is holding himself to my high. You
00:45:42.590 --> 00:45:46.829
know, that sort of a thing. And and so there
00:45:46.829 --> 00:45:50.010
was so much grace on Kara's part. And it's probably
00:45:50.010 --> 00:45:53.449
because in those moments she was realizing that
00:45:53.449 --> 00:46:00.389
our faith could help us through. Would it feel
00:46:00.389 --> 00:46:04.170
like it every day? No. But if you look at the
00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:08.309
trend line, it sustained us. It sustained her.
00:46:08.889 --> 00:46:11.510
It's what allowed her to continue and to not
00:46:11.510 --> 00:46:15.210
take it personally and to say his personal challenge
00:46:15.210 --> 00:46:21.960
and his personal trial of faith is not also my,
00:46:22.099 --> 00:46:26.219
does not define my faith. Yes. He might be having
00:46:26.219 --> 00:46:29.079
a trial of faith, but I have faith and I'm having
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:32.639
the faith. So it's a balance. And so we're also
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:34.639
very grateful because another outcome that came
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.340
from that whole time period is we're so grateful
00:46:37.340 --> 00:46:39.300
that we didn't rush into getting married and
00:46:39.300 --> 00:46:41.780
that we actually made the decision to work through
00:46:41.780 --> 00:46:45.159
this together and to help me get healthy and
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:49.860
support before we exchanged vows. And that has
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:53.000
created such a powerful strength to our marriage
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:57.679
because it's taught us to not sweat the small
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:03.559
stuff, to let things go and to not bicker. And,
00:47:03.619 --> 00:47:06.099
you know, the tit for tat, like, oh, well, you
00:47:06.099 --> 00:47:08.239
got to go with your buddies last night. So tonight
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:11.559
I'm going to. That's never been part of our marriage
00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:14.019
culture. And I really relate it. Both of us do.
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.980
to the fact that we had to overcome an incredible
00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:20.159
challenge before even exchanging the vows that
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:22.840
established a concrete foundation for us afterwards.
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:28.059
That's great. That ties into, you already weaved
00:47:28.059 --> 00:47:31.059
faith into it, that ties into the second question
00:47:31.059 --> 00:47:33.980
that was, when people are in depression, in my
00:47:33.980 --> 00:47:36.739
experience as well, you said it, we always talk
00:47:36.739 --> 00:47:39.179
about it, especially after the fact that it's
00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:43.659
a journey. When you have the knowledge that your
00:47:43.659 --> 00:47:47.320
God can heal in an instant, physically, mentally,
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:52.739
whatever, nothing's beyond his ability. How did
00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:58.900
you manage the frustration that God's provision
00:47:58.900 --> 00:48:03.699
and healing often doesn't happen in an instant?
00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:08.179
Did you have tests of faith where you, you know,
00:48:08.179 --> 00:48:10.420
maybe some imprecatory psalm kind of thing where
00:48:10.420 --> 00:48:12.460
you were frustrated and angry at God for not
00:48:12.909 --> 00:48:15.389
Simply not just taking you out of where you were?
00:48:17.929 --> 00:48:24.469
Yes, and I'm grateful for parents who tried their
00:48:24.469 --> 00:48:27.289
best and did their best to teach us the gospel,
00:48:27.429 --> 00:48:30.050
because I think maybe a leg up that I might have
00:48:30.050 --> 00:48:33.650
had going through all of this was knowing or
00:48:33.650 --> 00:48:36.210
believing, I'll say, maybe not knowing fully,
00:48:36.329 --> 00:48:39.690
but believing that faith is a principle of action.
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:45.000
And the greatest gift that God has given us is
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:48.099
the ability to act and the ability to use our
00:48:48.099 --> 00:48:51.619
faculties. Today, I call it a vitals check. Like
00:48:51.619 --> 00:48:53.980
when I experience an unforeseen circumstance
00:48:53.980 --> 00:48:58.000
or a less than great circumstance, I'm like in
00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:00.199
my brain still to this day, I go vitals check.
00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:03.679
Do my hands work? Do my feet work? Is my heart
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:06.119
pumping blood? Does my brain work? Can I think?
00:49:06.619 --> 00:49:11.539
He's already given me. Every blessing he needs
00:49:11.539 --> 00:49:15.079
to give me in order to put my faith into action
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:18.940
and get out of this. So the paradigm shift there,
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:21.699
just for those that might wonder, you're wondering
00:49:21.699 --> 00:49:24.460
about instant healing and instant blessings.
00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:29.960
How much more instant can it be than you already
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:34.059
have the blessing? You already have the gift.
00:49:34.219 --> 00:49:37.539
It's not being taken from you. It exists in real
00:49:37.539 --> 00:49:41.820
time. So I think that gave me a leg up because
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:43.340
I'm like, well, it's not about what he's going
00:49:43.340 --> 00:49:45.920
to do. He already did his part. He atoned. What
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:49.059
am I going to do with what he's given me? Some
00:49:49.059 --> 00:49:51.139
days that made me feel really guilty because
00:49:51.139 --> 00:49:53.920
I'm like, I'm not doing anything. But even that
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:57.380
thought gave way to what I now realize is my
00:49:57.380 --> 00:50:00.599
greatest fear in the world. My greatest fear
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:05.349
in the world is not the things that I can. can't
00:50:05.349 --> 00:50:08.070
control. My greatest fear in the world is mediocrity
00:50:08.070 --> 00:50:11.369
because it is truly the thing that I have entirely
00:50:11.369 --> 00:50:15.429
all control over. And my fear isn't just mediocrity.
00:50:15.429 --> 00:50:17.969
It's that I know that I have the control to,
00:50:18.010 --> 00:50:21.590
to not experience it. And so then if I make choices
00:50:21.590 --> 00:50:26.550
to experience it, that freaks me out. Certainly.
00:50:27.969 --> 00:50:30.789
He's already blessed us. You know, imagine this,
00:50:30.889 --> 00:50:33.130
right? It's like you do something nice for your
00:50:33.130 --> 00:50:35.570
neighbor and you keep doing something nice for
00:50:35.570 --> 00:50:39.030
your neighbor and they never see it. Does that
00:50:39.030 --> 00:50:41.090
change the fact that you already have done the
00:50:41.090 --> 00:50:44.590
nice thing? No, they just don't. They're not
00:50:44.590 --> 00:50:46.469
living in a state of mind where they're willing
00:50:46.469 --> 00:50:48.489
to see it or acknowledge it. Doesn't mean it
00:50:48.489 --> 00:50:51.150
didn't happen. Same thing applies here. Have
00:50:51.150 --> 00:50:54.030
you been vitals check your hands and your toes
00:50:54.030 --> 00:50:57.570
and your fingers and, you know, is it all working?
00:50:57.929 --> 00:51:03.039
And you. are experiencing God's blessing in real
00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:06.619
time. So what are you going to do? The second
00:51:06.619 --> 00:51:08.800
thing is this. Let's tie it even now into the
00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:15.320
eternal. We know that God is omnipresent, omniscient,
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.460
right? Everything is real time for him. So if
00:51:19.460 --> 00:51:22.239
we are eternal creatures and he is an eternal
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:26.960
being, and everything is in the present for him,
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:30.860
then also your eternal reward is also the blessing
00:51:30.860 --> 00:51:35.039
that you're getting in real time. So one must
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:39.000
ask themselves, what more do you want from the
00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:42.440
guy? But I want him to heal me like he healed
00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:47.920
people in the Bible. Yes. And how are you suggesting
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:52.539
that he's not already doing that? Yes. And let's
00:51:52.539 --> 00:51:54.500
remember the Bible is a collection of scripture
00:51:54.500 --> 00:51:57.219
that was translated and translated and translated
00:51:57.219 --> 00:52:00.099
and translated. How do we know? Do we have the
00:52:00.099 --> 00:52:03.219
record that says that after the father brought
00:52:03.219 --> 00:52:06.960
his son to the Lord and healed him, that the
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:10.739
father didn't go away at some point in the future
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:14.039
saying, but I really wish he was better at soccer
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:16.539
now. We don't have that record. Right, right.
00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:21.639
We assume that that father who brought. Brought
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:26.280
help thou my unbelief. Those are great punchlines
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:30.139
that are really faith promoting. Are we really
00:52:30.139 --> 00:52:33.699
suggesting then that that father became a perfect
00:52:33.699 --> 00:52:38.860
convert? Or did he go away in his carnal nature
00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:42.519
and at some point experienced hardship in the
00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.619
future, having watched the Savior heal his son
00:52:46.619 --> 00:52:51.269
and didn't? Also continue to have a mortal experience
00:52:51.269 --> 00:52:55.889
where it's like the bills came in again. My cash
00:52:55.889 --> 00:52:59.989
flows off my shekel. My shekel flow is off and
00:52:59.989 --> 00:53:03.090
my wife is getting on my nerves or my husband's
00:53:03.090 --> 00:53:05.369
getting on my nerves or my you see what I mean?
00:53:05.449 --> 00:53:09.369
Yeah. Yeah. The Bible is the word of God period.
00:53:10.809 --> 00:53:15.369
But it's the word of God about the experiences
00:53:15.369 --> 00:53:19.260
that people had. with God, I want to read their
00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:23.059
diaries that aren't in the Bible so that I can
00:53:23.059 --> 00:53:26.500
get a clearer reference point for that. So that's
00:53:26.500 --> 00:53:30.980
my argument against or in addition to this concept
00:53:30.980 --> 00:53:33.920
of, but I wish he would just lay his hands on
00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:38.000
me and heal me the way I want to be healed. Well,
00:53:38.179 --> 00:53:42.820
who are you? Really? Who am I? I'm a child of
00:53:42.820 --> 00:53:47.480
God. Okay. So then can we agree that as your
00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:49.860
perfect loving and all -knowing and all -wise
00:53:49.860 --> 00:53:54.480
parent, he is imparting to you the blessing and
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.619
the experience and the understanding that he
00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:02.539
knows is best for you to get you to what he really
00:54:02.539 --> 00:54:07.699
wants, for you to return to him? He's blessing
00:54:07.699 --> 00:54:12.320
us constantly in real time. It's difficult for
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:17.079
me to accept. And maybe I'm crazy. But it's difficult
00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:20.159
for me to accept the idea that on one half of
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:23.800
my mouth, I can say things like, God knows what's
00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:26.199
best for me. And then on the other side, when
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:28.079
I experience a challenge, be like, how come he's
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:32.280
not giving me what I want? Yeah. What? You know
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:35.920
what I mean? Sounds like the Israelites in the
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:39.219
Old Testament there a little bit. Isn't it, though?
00:54:39.460 --> 00:54:48.250
Yeah. We don't have any meat to eat. And so I
00:54:48.250 --> 00:54:50.630
say it somewhat facetiously, somewhat tongue
00:54:50.630 --> 00:54:54.969
-in -cheek, really to just demonstrate, hopefully,
00:54:55.170 --> 00:55:00.610
the flaw in that way of thinking. What would
00:55:00.610 --> 00:55:06.489
your life look like if you were holding yourself
00:55:06.489 --> 00:55:09.650
accountable to think, I'm being blessed to this
00:55:09.650 --> 00:55:13.690
instant? Hmm. I'm being blessed continually.
00:55:13.869 --> 00:55:17.030
His blessings flow forth. Like it says in the
00:55:17.030 --> 00:55:19.210
book of Malachi, the windows of heaven, you know,
00:55:19.210 --> 00:55:20.949
it's talking about tithes and offerings, but
00:55:20.949 --> 00:55:23.429
still the windows of heaven will open and pour
00:55:23.429 --> 00:55:26.349
out blessings upon you with such abundance. You
00:55:26.349 --> 00:55:28.250
won't even know what to do with them all. Hmm.
00:55:28.929 --> 00:55:31.090
Because the thing is, just like the neighbor
00:55:31.090 --> 00:55:34.230
who doesn't see you mowing, doesn't care to even
00:55:34.230 --> 00:55:35.690
notice that you're mowing your lawn, doesn't
00:55:35.690 --> 00:55:37.610
change the fact that the lawn was getting mowed
00:55:37.610 --> 00:55:41.340
in the same way. You're the one that has to make
00:55:41.340 --> 00:55:44.099
the choice to recognize the miracle, the abundance
00:55:44.099 --> 00:55:46.800
of miracles that are, I promise you, happening
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:51.440
right in this very moment. And just because you're
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.340
not willing to see them or making the choice
00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:55.800
to be willing to see them does not change the
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:59.599
fact that they are happening. And if you, even
00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:02.340
if you don't see them in the moment, later on,
00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:04.639
in the change of perspective, you can reflect
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:08.940
back on that. Absolutely. So as we wrap up, what
00:56:08.940 --> 00:56:13.559
would you say to someone who doesn't even know
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:15.440
where to start? You know, because we've talked
00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:19.519
about many, many aspects of the journey in different
00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:22.900
places. And often the analysis paralysis is what
00:56:22.900 --> 00:56:26.940
I find catches most people. Physical health is
00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:29.579
the easiest one to tie in because it's one of
00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:32.480
the most obvious. People know the two basic things.
00:56:32.579 --> 00:56:34.400
People ask me for nutrition and fitness advice
00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:36.719
all the time. And it seems like they're always
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:39.539
disappointed with the response because there's
00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:43.940
really nothing that beats the move more, eat
00:56:43.940 --> 00:56:47.239
better. And so they're like, oh, well, I was
00:56:47.239 --> 00:56:51.179
just hoping you had an easier route. I was hoping
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:53.239
God could just bless me to lose weight right
00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:55.460
now. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
00:56:55.539 --> 00:56:57.980
So what would you say to someone who doesn't
00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:00.199
even know where to start? It's going to sound
00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:04.400
easier than some people might want to accept.
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:09.320
Number one, take out a piece of paper. Okay.
00:57:09.460 --> 00:57:11.760
By the way, I'm telling you exactly what to do.
00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:13.239
You're saying you don't know where to start.
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:17.360
I am telling you exactly what to do. My hope
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:20.460
is that... you are already pulling out a piece
00:57:20.460 --> 00:57:22.480
of paper. You take out a piece of paper, you
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:26.980
draw a line down the middle. On the left, you
00:57:26.980 --> 00:57:31.400
write willingness to learn. On the right, you
00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:36.000
write willingness to take action. What I'm going
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:39.440
to have you do is rate out of 10, 10 being the
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:42.480
highest level of willingness, one being the lowest
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.440
level of willingness. On the left, I want you
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:49.949
to rate out of 10. Your willingness to learn
00:57:49.949 --> 00:57:53.730
new things. On the right, I want you to rate
00:57:53.730 --> 00:57:56.010
out of 10, 10 being the highest level of willingness,
00:57:56.170 --> 00:58:00.269
one being the lowest, your willingness to take
00:58:00.269 --> 00:58:05.070
action on the things that you learn. Now, most
00:58:05.070 --> 00:58:08.710
people, when they do this exercise, Josh, they're
00:58:08.710 --> 00:58:11.489
like, 10, I'm willing to do, I'm willing to learn,
00:58:11.610 --> 00:58:17.070
I'm willing to, okay? Now, let me suggest an
00:58:17.070 --> 00:58:19.949
idea. Below that on the piece of paper, below
00:58:19.949 --> 00:58:23.769
your ratings, I want you to think about something
00:58:23.769 --> 00:58:26.590
in your life, not someone, okay? I want to be
00:58:26.590 --> 00:58:31.050
very clear, not someone, something you absolutely
00:58:31.050 --> 00:58:33.789
cannot live without. For some, it's their phone.
00:58:34.130 --> 00:58:38.949
For some, it's coffee. For some, it's video games,
00:58:39.150 --> 00:58:41.969
guitar, music, whatever it might be. What is
00:58:41.969 --> 00:58:45.250
something you are absolutely not willing to live
00:58:45.250 --> 00:58:49.519
without? Write that down. Coffee is usually the
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:54.579
biggest one. Now I want you to rate your willingness
00:58:54.579 --> 00:58:57.159
to learn and willingness to take action if I
00:58:57.159 --> 00:58:59.519
tell you that the only way you will achieve the
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:01.960
next thing you want is to give up the thing that
00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:06.980
you think you can't live without. That 10 goes
00:59:06.980 --> 00:59:12.659
to a 5 really quick. That 5 goes to a 3 really
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:18.659
quick. Friends, what you have to do, Like cleaning
00:59:18.659 --> 00:59:24.360
out a garage that's full of garbage. You have
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:30.619
to make room for the thing that you believe is
00:59:30.619 --> 00:59:35.980
better. Your willingness to learn and your willingness
00:59:35.980 --> 00:59:41.460
to take action must be 10 out of 10. And if you're
00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:44.179
not a 10 today, then what you do now is write
00:59:44.179 --> 00:59:48.840
down what... Do I think it will take for me to
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:51.239
get to a 10 willingness to learn and 10 willingness
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:56.639
to take action? That's right. Maybe it's not
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:58.820
giving up your phone indefinitely. Of course,
00:59:58.820 --> 01:00:01.340
I live in the same world as us, but maybe it's
01:00:01.340 --> 01:00:05.320
a social media fast because what you've identified
01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:07.519
as you pause and reflect, you know, Brian Tracy
01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:10.320
says to sit in silence for 30 to 60 minutes and
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.380
it's crazy what your brain will start to. do
01:00:13.380 --> 01:00:15.659
to help you understand what your next actions
01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:19.119
should be. Maybe you've realized that social
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:22.380
media has become such a distraction, the polarizing
01:00:22.380 --> 01:00:26.719
views, the feelings of anger and division. Maybe
01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:30.079
all of that was occupying in your mind and in
01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:33.360
your heart the space you really needed to know
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:36.099
with clarity the next action that you need to
01:00:36.099 --> 01:00:40.119
take, the next first thing you need to do. The
01:00:40.119 --> 01:00:46.039
last thing to it is this. I believe that goal
01:00:46.039 --> 01:00:51.980
setting is very, very important. More so that
01:00:51.980 --> 01:00:56.739
achievable goals setting is incredibly important.
01:00:57.059 --> 01:00:59.639
Work through the mechanics of it. Like if you're
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:02.860
feeling bogged down or overwhelmed by the idea
01:01:02.860 --> 01:01:07.940
of lose 50 pounds, break it down. What's the
01:01:07.940 --> 01:01:10.630
closest thing to your achievement? Some might
01:01:10.630 --> 01:01:12.750
say, well, I've heard the nutritionist say lose
01:01:12.750 --> 01:01:17.090
a pound a week. Okay, break that down. Got to
01:01:17.090 --> 01:01:19.130
get rid of the junk food in my cupboards. Okay,
01:01:19.210 --> 01:01:22.889
there you go. Go do it. Take out the trash bin,
01:01:23.050 --> 01:01:26.849
throw out the garbage food, go to Kroger today,
01:01:26.949 --> 01:01:29.469
go to Meijer today, go wherever, Safeway, wherever
01:01:29.469 --> 01:01:33.969
you're listening, and replace it with chicken.
01:01:35.530 --> 01:01:38.869
You know what I mean? Buy the eggs, buy the protein,
01:01:39.070 --> 01:01:41.659
buy the... Break it down. It's like this. My
01:01:41.659 --> 01:01:46.880
studio door is 15 feet away. Is my goal to go
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:50.119
and walk through the door or is it first to stand
01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:54.719
up out of my chair? Yep. Then is the next goal
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:57.440
to walk to the door? Then is the next goal to
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:00.300
reach out to the doorknob and twist it and then
01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:03.019
swing the door open and then walk through the
01:02:03.019 --> 01:02:05.360
door? Now, you might say, well, that sounds like
01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:07.059
too much, but let me break down the mechanics
01:02:07.059 --> 01:02:11.070
of why it works. You see, because I didn't disregard
01:02:11.070 --> 01:02:13.849
the end goal where I wanted to arrive. I'm not
01:02:13.849 --> 01:02:16.530
disregarding it. But when I break it down into
01:02:16.530 --> 01:02:18.670
bite -sized chunks, the mechanics of it are this.
01:02:18.789 --> 01:02:21.590
When I accomplish that first goal and I stand
01:02:21.590 --> 01:02:24.690
up out of my chair, I feel the sense of accomplishment,
01:02:24.889 --> 01:02:28.030
which improves my feelings of confidence and
01:02:28.030 --> 01:02:32.010
motivation to proceed on to the next part of
01:02:32.010 --> 01:02:34.710
the mechanics. And when I accomplish that milestone,
01:02:35.110 --> 01:02:38.409
my confidence... My shoulders go back. I feel
01:02:38.409 --> 01:02:41.489
more confident again, more motivated to go and
01:02:41.489 --> 01:02:44.510
proceed on to step three and step four and step
01:02:44.510 --> 01:02:46.829
five and so on and so forth. And before you know
01:02:46.829 --> 01:02:49.130
it, in rapid succession, you've achieved the
01:02:49.130 --> 01:02:54.449
thing. I want to lose 50 pounds, of course. But
01:02:54.449 --> 01:02:56.869
do I want to lose 50 pounds or do I also want
01:02:56.869 --> 01:02:59.630
to gain muscle along the way? So like figure
01:02:59.630 --> 01:03:01.409
out your, this goes all the way back to the beginning.
01:03:01.469 --> 01:03:02.909
What's your definition of success? What do you
01:03:02.909 --> 01:03:06.340
actually want to do? Today, it may be that you
01:03:06.340 --> 01:03:12.039
just need to get out of bed. That's right. Today,
01:03:12.199 --> 01:03:16.559
it may be that instead of wearing joggers and
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:19.099
not doing your hair, forgetting to brush your
01:03:19.099 --> 01:03:22.079
teeth, that you do that one thing to take care
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:26.179
of yourself. And you do it. And guess what? It's
01:03:26.179 --> 01:03:27.679
your life. You get to decide. I'm going to do
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:29.659
that for a week. I'm going to do that for 21
01:03:29.659 --> 01:03:32.179
days. I'm going to do that for 30 days. I'm going
01:03:32.179 --> 01:03:36.000
to do it for 60 days. Do that. I'm an advocate
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:38.760
for don't even introduce anything else to overwhelm
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.400
you. That's right. Get it done along the way.
01:03:42.460 --> 01:03:46.079
My gosh, I've been doing it for 15 days. I feel
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:49.320
great. I'm going to do it again tomorrow because
01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:54.159
I feel great. I got out of bed. And I chose to
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.340
get out of bed. I brushed my teeth and I showered
01:03:57.340 --> 01:04:00.820
and I put on nicer clothes because I, oh, I'm
01:04:00.820 --> 01:04:05.320
feeling good. Along that path, you will be inspired
01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:07.539
to what the next step after that is going to
01:04:07.539 --> 01:04:12.760
be. I want anyone who hears this, my hope, my
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:17.139
prayer is anyone who hears this stops comparing
01:04:17.139 --> 01:04:22.619
themselves to today to someone else's tomorrow.
01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:26.380
That's right. I had a friend of mine one day
01:04:26.380 --> 01:04:31.880
as I was approaching 40, I was like 38 at the
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:34.369
time. And I'm talking to him and I'm like, you
01:04:34.369 --> 01:04:37.210
know, dude, it's weird. The closer I get to 40,
01:04:37.349 --> 01:04:42.050
I have this feeling of I'm running out of time.
01:04:42.090 --> 01:04:44.409
Like there's this weird urgency that I'm feeling
01:04:44.409 --> 01:04:46.769
like, oh my gosh, like there's so many things.
01:04:46.849 --> 01:04:48.550
My ambition is so big. There's so many things
01:04:48.550 --> 01:04:50.110
that I want to accomplish. And he was a great
01:04:50.110 --> 01:04:54.650
reminder. He said, Michael, I turned 54 two weeks
01:04:54.650 --> 01:04:58.730
ago and I just accomplished the biggest, most
01:04:58.730 --> 01:05:01.070
hairy, audacious goal on my goal list that I
01:05:01.070 --> 01:05:07.980
set for myself. What I know of you is the goals
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:10.679
you're setting, the ambitions you have, the path
01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:14.760
you are already on. What will that look like
01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:18.960
with, I mean, he's 54, I was 38. What will that
01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:26.019
look like with 17, 16 more years of time? You're
01:05:26.019 --> 01:05:28.139
doing everything. The only component you have
01:05:28.139 --> 01:05:30.860
is you just got to put more time. Good thing
01:05:30.860 --> 01:05:33.900
for you. You got more time. Herein lies the human
01:05:33.900 --> 01:05:39.159
condition. We feel like there's less time than
01:05:39.159 --> 01:05:41.480
we want, but there is actually more than we're
01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:44.980
willing to admit. And so if the time is going
01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:47.739
to happen anyways, and I am going to exist in
01:05:47.739 --> 01:05:50.420
that time, then I may as well continue on the
01:05:50.420 --> 01:05:54.019
course because he's right. Let's say I'm 40 at
01:05:54.019 --> 01:05:57.639
the time and he's 54. What would another 14 years
01:05:57.639 --> 01:06:00.960
for me look like? If I continue down this path,
01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:04.659
incredible. Yeah. For those that are just getting
01:06:04.659 --> 01:06:07.000
started, rate your willingness to learn your
01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.380
willingness to take action. What are you willing
01:06:09.380 --> 01:06:14.920
to not get rid of in a bad way, but what are
01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:17.659
you willing to release in order to make more
01:06:17.659 --> 01:06:21.440
room? Just like clearing out a garage, just like,
01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:25.820
you know, clearing out the cupboards to reorganize.
01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:28.480
Just, it's just like that. That is sacrifice.
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:34.119
Sacrifice is not this negative thing. You've
01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:36.619
got to be willing to sacrifice it all. Break
01:06:36.619 --> 01:06:40.239
it apart. Here's where I'll end. Sacrifice actually
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:44.480
comes from the Latin roots, sacer and facere.
01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:51.920
Literally means the act of becoming holy. It's
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:58.230
like a consecrated process. Modern times, we
01:06:58.230 --> 01:07:00.730
relate sacrifice to, I've got to give up something
01:07:00.730 --> 01:07:03.909
I really want, and that's going to be painful.
01:07:04.090 --> 01:07:06.730
Ah, but what if you changed your paradigm and
01:07:06.730 --> 01:07:11.070
realized this is the act of you becoming something
01:07:11.070 --> 01:07:16.349
that is bigger and bolder and greater and more
01:07:16.349 --> 01:07:20.809
capable than where you currently are? It's just
01:07:20.809 --> 01:07:24.920
the act of making room. making room in your heart
01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:27.619
and in your mind. That is the sacrifice. You're
01:07:27.619 --> 01:07:31.099
not giving up your phone. You are releasing the
01:07:31.099 --> 01:07:34.880
things that this distracts you from, you know,
01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:40.980
or can distract you to make room to focus, to
01:07:40.980 --> 01:07:43.139
do the things that you want to accomplish that
01:07:43.139 --> 01:07:45.960
you're feeling probably weary about because you
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:48.599
have the ambition but don't have the action plan.
01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:51.380
It's right there. It's available to you. That,
01:07:51.500 --> 01:07:55.090
my friends, is an instant blessing. You're being
01:07:55.090 --> 01:07:57.769
instantly blessed, instantly healed, not by me,
01:07:57.849 --> 01:08:00.130
but by the creator of the universe and all things
01:08:00.130 --> 01:08:04.550
in it. That you right now, despite whatever you've
01:08:04.550 --> 01:08:07.909
convinced yourself of, are actually in a position
01:08:07.909 --> 01:08:12.110
to create your next step and your next step and
01:08:12.110 --> 01:08:14.389
your next step. That is one of the greatest blessings
01:08:14.389 --> 01:08:18.310
aside from the Lord Jesus Christ that God can
01:08:18.310 --> 01:08:21.869
give us. The ability to act, the ability to choose.
01:08:22.300 --> 01:08:25.479
What will you choose today? Everything that you're
01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:27.859
wanting to experience in this life is right on
01:08:27.859 --> 01:08:30.880
the other side of that choice. Didn't know we
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:34.899
were going to church today. Heyo! Hey! All right.
01:08:35.140 --> 01:08:38.460
The final question we ask every guest is, what
01:08:38.460 --> 01:08:41.100
is the one thing, Michael, that you would tell
01:08:41.100 --> 01:08:43.659
your 20 -year -old self? You're going to be bald.
01:08:43.779 --> 01:08:47.840
That's probably it. Yeah, just wait. 20 -year
01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:49.739
-old Michael was already going bald. He just
01:08:49.739 --> 01:08:55.039
didn't want to admit it. I would tell him, stay
01:08:55.039 --> 01:09:00.720
the course. Stay the course. It's going to be
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:07.159
okay. You are already future you in an incubator.
01:09:10.460 --> 01:09:16.640
Stay the course. Yeah, that's strong. Yeah. And
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:20.199
I'm telling 43 -year -old Michael today, stay
01:09:20.199 --> 01:09:24.659
the course. By the way, guys, the challenges
01:09:24.659 --> 01:09:28.060
aren't going to go away. Right. Stay the course.
01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:32.020
They sometimes get bigger, which is why we say
01:09:32.020 --> 01:09:34.119
things like we wouldn't change the past because
01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:37.539
they set us up for now, while the same is going
01:09:37.539 --> 01:09:40.380
to be true of the future. Yeah. I mean, it's
01:09:40.380 --> 01:09:43.020
like even parenthood is the perfect microcosm
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:46.060
for this thesis. Michael, stay the course. Why?
01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:48.520
Because what you're learning today is a father.
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:52.039
Is the wisdom you will be able to impart your
01:09:52.039 --> 01:09:56.359
children when they are mothers and fathers. And
01:09:56.359 --> 01:09:59.060
the things you're learning today are the incubator
01:09:59.060 --> 01:10:04.279
for you getting to be an awesome grandpa. Stay
01:10:04.279 --> 01:10:12.319
the course. Stay the course. Let's see, where
01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:15.640
are we? November 15th, 2025 at time of recording.
01:10:16.260 --> 01:10:19.060
For those listening in the future. This past
01:10:19.060 --> 01:10:22.039
July, I went to Canada. It was my parents' 50th
01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:26.119
wedding anniversary. Dude, the joy in their eyes
01:10:26.119 --> 01:10:34.479
to see five children, spouses, 19 grandchildren,
01:10:34.899 --> 01:10:39.399
young enough to experience here shortly great
01:10:39.399 --> 01:10:45.079
grandchildren in their 70s. What? Yeah, my mom's
01:10:45.079 --> 01:10:50.930
young. She's 71. 70, 50 years of marriage, 70
01:10:50.930 --> 01:10:54.010
years old, potential to see great grandkids.
01:10:55.229 --> 01:10:59.149
The joy. Do you think my parents went through
01:10:59.149 --> 01:11:00.890
it like everyone else did? Yeah. Did they deal
01:11:00.890 --> 01:11:02.670
with the teenagers? Yeah. Did they deal with
01:11:02.670 --> 01:11:07.250
the financial problems? Yeah. And then all of
01:11:07.250 --> 01:11:11.409
a sudden, 50 years later, looking at a room full
01:11:11.409 --> 01:11:14.670
of, a ballroom full of people that are related.
01:11:15.260 --> 01:11:21.199
That they created. And the joy and the emotion
01:11:21.199 --> 01:11:28.079
of ringing that bell. Stay the course. God has
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:30.600
you in his hands. When I was depressed, I felt
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:33.340
like I turned my back on God. The greatest blessing
01:11:33.340 --> 01:11:36.199
all these years later is realizing he never once,
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:40.659
never once turned his back on mine, me, and actually
01:11:40.659 --> 01:11:43.220
carried me through that entire experience in
01:11:43.220 --> 01:11:47.489
his. Merciful hands. Stay the course. Stay the
01:11:47.489 --> 01:11:49.470
course. You deserve to stay the course, by the
01:11:49.470 --> 01:11:53.989
way. You deserve to stay the course. Stay the
01:11:53.989 --> 01:11:57.270
course. Stay the course. All right, Michael.
01:11:57.409 --> 01:12:00.329
Well, it's always a joy to talk to you. Thank
01:12:00.329 --> 01:12:02.670
you for joining us today and sharing some amazing
01:12:02.670 --> 01:12:06.130
wisdom from your experience. I didn't even go
01:12:06.130 --> 01:12:10.729
full goof mode on you. There's always next time.
01:12:13.100 --> 01:12:15.220
Thanks for listening to the Optimizing Beyond
01:12:15.220 --> 01:12:18.039
podcast. Remember, growth happens when you take
01:12:18.039 --> 01:12:20.779
action. So subscribe, share this with a friend,
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:23.359
and most importantly, put what you learned into
01:12:23.359 --> 01:12:26.319
practice. Until next time, keep moving forward
01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:29.079
because daily anything changes everything.