TRANSKRIPT 🔗
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Life Audio A.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: Lot of teaching today assumes that if people receive enough good information, change will follow. But most of us know that is not really how transformation works. You can listen to a brilliant talk, take pages of notes, and still find yourself living the same way a week later. Over the years, we've become more interested in a different question. Not simply, what should we teach, but how do people actually grow? That question has shaped the way we lead retreats, workshops, and even our longer training environments like P.A.C.E. Hi friends, I'm Jem Fadling and this is the Unhurried Living Podcast where we inspire you to rest deeper, live fuller, and lead better. What we've discovered is that the environment of learning matters as much as the content itself. So today, we want to share a few of the ways we try to create learning environments where formation can actually take root. After a word from our sponsor, we'll dive into our conversation for today. In Unhurried Living, we care about teaching, but we care just as much about what happens around the teaching. Information alone rarely changes a life. Formation happens as people begin to notice what God is doing in them, reflect on it, talk about it with others. and gradually integrate it into their daily lives. Because of that, we try to design our gatherings in ways that help people engage with God personally, not just listen to someone else talk about God. Whether we're leading a short workshop or a retreat with our PACE cohort, we try to create a rhythm that includes teaching, reflection, conversation, and time with God. Alan and I are going to talk through a few of the practices that have become important for us over the years. Well, Alan, here we are together. Once in a while, we like to talk to each other instead of other people.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: Well, we like to talk to each other in front of other people. We do it more often together without other people around. But it is good to be able to share just some of our interactions with our Unhurried Living podcast community. Yeah, it is good.
00:02:17
Speaker 2: As we just mentioned, we do typically talk to other people, but we've been deciding amongst ourselves that it might be good every once in a while for us just to talk to you about our own spiritual lives or our own spiritual leadership strategies or ways. And today is one of those days. We really want to talk to you about how we teach. And so we are going to go through a few, I think we thought of what, five or six different ways that we teach. teach, especially in, well, a workshop or a retreat setting. We just have a way that we do things that's probably more interactive than most people do. We don't like to just talk to people. We like to offer experiences. So we're going to just share with you some of our biases for how we are when we're with people in a teaching or retreat situation. So I'm going to start with the first one.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: How about that?
00:03:15
Speaker 2: Good. The first one will surprise absolutely no one. As often as we can, whenever we're invited to go speak to any group or if we lead something ourselves, we like to offer people a version of solitude and silence because we really believe in that extended time with God in a listening posture. So sometimes we will only have 30 minutes depending on how long we're with people. Sometimes we can give people a few hours. But we bias toward this time because, of course, what we're saying is important, right? We know that what we're saying is something that we believe God has given us and we want to share with other people. What solitude and silence does is it actually trains people in receptivity. And receptivity is important because we can learn to listen, we can be present, especially And that's what solitude and silence is at its hardest. We are making ourselves attentive to God. So it reminds us all that as humans, what we say, Alan and Jim, but even what all humans say is not as important as what God has to say. And it gives people a chance to listen instead of simply receiving more content. We'll talk about content more in a bit. It reminds everyone, again, including us as the facilitators, that God is the primary teacher. The practice of solitude and silence actually also helps people slow down enough to notice what's happening in them. So notice this list I'm making. Sure, Alan and I could teach this. Like right now, we're teaching and we're saying, here's what could happen. But when we're together, if people have a chance to try it on, it makes a difference, right? Because often the most meaningful moments of any time or with people happens in that time with God because they come back and they report to us, here's what happened. Whether it's a story of some insight that they were hoping for, or even just as simple as, wow, it was so nice to sit peacefully or walk peacefully somewhere and just have a sense of inner rest. And we know this might seem counterintuitive because some view this as, Empty time, right? Because no one's teaching. But that's because I don't think we always give high priority to God's own voice and his direction in people's lives. We have this bias toward thinking that what we're going to say is the thing that's going to make the difference. And let me repeat, of course what we're teaching is important. We wouldn't be offering this to people if it wasn't, and people wouldn't pay us to go places and speak if what we were going to say wasn't important. We just also think that God could weigh in and we could make space for that. Right. So we're trying to continue to grow accustomed to believing that God cares more than us and that God can help even more than we can. So solitude and silence is something we try to build in, in varying amounts with anyone we're with.
00:06:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. I would just add that, um, This has been a practice for us personally for most of
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our adult lives, thanks to some mentors who really introduced us to the practice. I mean, theoretically, we knew, oh, yeah, solitude, silence. We've read the books. We know about this thing. It's that whole aboutness that can happen. You tell people about solitude and silence, and then you want them to go home and figure out what to do with that on their own. And shockingly, not many people do. I've often said that of the many spiritual disciplines, there are solitude and silence in many ways require the most encouragement and coaching because it's so counterintuitive in our cultural setting. So I'm glad we started with that one. And again, I'll say one more thing. I have traveled around the world to be with leaders. And often I'll build this kind of time in and I'll often get the comment of, you have traveled a great distance. Why are you not teaching everything you know for the limited amount of time you're with us? Which to what you just said, you know, is why? I mean, the reason why is God is the one we're all there to hear. And I can't tell you how many times Just one hour given to being with God has been the thing everybody talks about and not necessarily some remarkable lecture that you or I delivered. So we sort of overemphasize our indispensability when it comes to a teaching setting. You know what I mean?
00:08:19
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Well, and let me say this. If you only taught people about God, solitude and silence and then expected them to go home and try it on, they won't. I mean, that sounds pessimistic, but most of the time people don't have a bias toward having all this space and time when they go home to try the thing, especially if you're one workshop out of many or you're one sermon out of many or one teaching out of all the things we're taking in. That's why we give people the space and time when we're together so they have done it and they know what it is and someone mentored them through the process. And then they can go home and repeat it. I think that's important.
00:09:00
Speaker 1: It is. I'll say one more thing and then transition to kind of our second big idea about how we go about teaching. And that is that solitude and silence are just two of many disciplines that are about opening up space. You use the word receptivity. So the thing about receptivity is you are facilitating someone else's encounter with God. That's different than telling them about God or instructing them about the nature of God or saying accurate things about God. There's something alive and present and real time in a practice like solitude and silence. And so I think that's important to say too. So transitioning then to a second thing that we feel very strongly about is, I would summarize it as this. Learn how to teach just enough content. There is a sort of instinct among many of us who teach that could be put in an equation. More content equals more learning. I don't think that equation is true. And I believe this because of experience. So, I
will just say that as someone who's been teaching and speaking all my adult life, there is a great temptation to feel like my job is to fill every single moment we're together with my wonderful insights and my remarkable thoughts. And even just saying that sentence makes you realize how often your ego is all wrapped up in this activity instead of a humble sort of how can I help these people learn who God is and what God's inviting us to and all of that. So, you know, admittedly, you know, if you go somewhere and you're being paid to speak to a group, the assumption is they're there to see you. They're there to hear you talk. And so make sure every minute counts. Make sure they get their money's worth, you know, that sort of thing. But here's what I have learned. There comes a point where more content actually equals less learning. Like we're actually, without meaning to, because of the amount of content we give somebody, especially let's say it's a day-long workshop and there's three or four sessions of densely packed content. There is no way anyone in that room is digesting everything they've been given. So again, we're back to that comment you made a minute ago, which is, so we're expecting them to go home to their busy lives and spend lots of time digesting these teachings that we've given them. And I don't think any of us have to think very long before we realize very, very few people will do that. So That's just about the fact that we've learned that there's a kind of intensity about teaching content that leads to indigestion, and people just get used to a lot of unprocessed and undigestive knowledge, which is to say we're training them in something we don't want to train them in. But when people receive... It's just a fact. People receive more information that they can reflect on Very little of it stays with them or shapes them. They're just thinking, well, I'm going to get another insight the next time I come to this meeting or go to church or whatever. So with all that said, we are always trying to ask the question, how much content is enough? And how much space can we give for people to reflect on what they've heard, to interact about what they've heard, and maybe even how to respond? to what they've heard. So the big label on this is teach enough content, but not too much.
00:13:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:13:15
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:13:15
Speaker 2: We just had a conversation actually yesterday with a leader who has invited us to come to a group and they had invited someone else semi-recently. And that person just taught 100% of the time with no space for anything else, but the teaching. And the feedback they received was that the people wished there had been space and time for them to do some processing or talking or thinking or interacting, and there was none of that. So it really just put an underline on our own conviction that people actually want to think about and talk about what you're saying. And how wonderful that they might be able
to do that while you're in the room with them.
00:14:00
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:14:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just think that underscored our bias toward having just enough and giving enough space. So right on the heels of this, then, since we're talking about teaching just enough, well, then what else is going to happen? You're like, what else is going to happen? Well, so far, we've talked about solitude and silence. We've talked about teaching. So these are all aspects of when we're with people. And then the time amount flexes, of course, depending on how long we're with the people. But if you're not talking, what could be happening? Well, the other one, the third one is interaction, right? We assume that the people, especially the people that lean in toward us here at Unhurried Living, you all are a kind of person we have discovered. You are intelligent. You're thoughtful. You want to grow. You want to learn. You want to have your connection with God be strengthened. You're already trying a lot of things on and you've learned things that we haven't. There's so many things that can happen in the room. So we assume that the people that lean in and come to anything that we do is bringing, you're all bringing your own wisdom. You're bringing your own experience. And so our role, Alan and I, our role is not only to teach, but also to help people pay attention to what God is already doing in your own life. See, a lot of people, maybe they know, maybe they do know that they have wisdom experience. But once in a while, it's nice to have someone else point that out or draw that out of you. So we like to use a lot of reflective questions that help people notice their own stories, their own experience. And so when we teach, we'll be teaching for however long, 15, 20, 30 minutes, if there's a real big point to make. And then we'll do this thing, we call it turn in twos. Turn in twos, turn to the person, Next to you, one of our mentors used to call this squeezing the sponge. The sponge is full. Let's just squeeze it out a little bit. And so we turn in twos and we have, hey, we'll say something very simple like, what have you been hearing so far? Or what's coming up for you in this? Or what other, what are you noticing? All those kinds of spiritual direction and questions. Then we give them about five or 10 minutes to talk to each other and just sort of release that energy of taking in all that information. And then typically, Once the twos have broken up and we bring everybody back, depending on the size of the group, although Alan and I have done this with a group of 100 people, you can have a roving mic and you can have people share in the large group. And people usually like to be able to share their insights and other people learn from them. So it can be done. We've done it in groups of 10, 25, 100, and it works at all levels, right? And what else is happening here? is that people are learning to reflect on what they just heard, process it a bit, share their
own insights. And I think they're also learning then to grow in their own vulnerability. Because when you're sharing with another person, especially in that kind of a setting, you are drawing from something inside of yourself. And so these are all great skills. You've listened well, and now you're learning to share. in a soulful way with another person. This is a great skill as a human being, but also as a leader. So these conversations often deepen the learning because people begin to connect the ideas they just heard with their actual real life. And then they've shared it with someone else. So I don't know in that process, if you can hear the goodness of all of that, but we really believe in that process.
00:17:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Maybe an illustration of this. I was invited just recently to speak for a men's retreat. And I know what that usually means. You know, somebody comes and has these amazing, exciting, high-energy talks that get the men all, you know, stirred up and inspired. And then they'll run down the hill and do something amazing for God. I don't know. Here's what we ended up doing. Now, admittedly, I've been doing this for a number of decades, so I'm very comfortable with a process like this. But our main sessions, the three times we were together as a group with lots of space and time, were as simple as this. There was a passage of Scripture up on the screen, up on the PowerPoint screen. I read it out loud. I asked them to notice what in that passage made sense, what intersected, what spoke to them, what caught their attention, whatever. And I invited them as a large group just to sort of popcorn some of those words and phrases from the passage. They didn't give their opinion. They didn't give their interpretation. They just shared something from the passage. And sometimes the same phrase got said over and over and over. It was almost like group scripture meditation, right? Yeah. And then... And then I started sort of taking their insights and then responding to them. Like I was a teacher being prompted by their insights and what they were drawn to. And so suddenly what I was sharing was finding a landing place in what they were discovering. And then after I'd made quite a few comments, like you said, I just sent them together in twos or threes and I invited them. Hey, what are you hearing? What's making sense? What's hitting home? How does God's Spirit seem to be speaking to you through this passage? Then after a bit, we came back together and they shared, a few of them did anyway. shared. And that gave me more opportunities for kind of a situational teaching or coaching kind of response. You know, we had about an hour to 90 minutes for each of these sessions. And the feedback from the men, and these are men who are used to, like I said, used to a camp speaker. a very one-way sort of somebody on stage talking to the people sitting in chairs listening experience. But they were so responsive to the opportunity to have that kind of interaction, that kind of reflection, that kind of almost like coaching in the moment. And so that whole dynamic of interaction, we just think anything you can do in any teaching setting, to introduce elements of interaction. That's absolutely critical.
00:20:45
Speaker 2: Well, it deepens learning. I mean, if you really want people to learn and really take in what you said, that's one of the biggest benefits is they will remember more if they have those moments to process out loud and share what's going on. That's really good. We'll continue after the break.
00:21:05
Speaker 1: So then I'll just jump to the, Yeah, let me jump to the next one. So this will not surprise you considering the three that we've already given you. But when we look at the schedule of, let's say, a workshop day or a multiple day retreat, one of the things we're always looking to do is to create a spacious schedule. See, again, this sort of bumps up against some of our cultural assumptions is maximize the time. Which means, in the popular imagination, cram as much good stuff as you can into every possible nook and cranny of that schedule. And you've all heard the thing, you know, I left that conference and I felt like I needed a vacation from the conference, you know. So we try not to crowd our gatherings with back-to-back-to-back meetings. We like there to be some space between sessions. We like there to be some open space on any given day on a multiple day retreat that is not programmed, that is not scheduled with some, you know, deliverable, let's say. And so what that kind of spacious schedule does is it gives people time to absorb what they're hearing. It leaves room for personal elements like reflection or prayer. or just sort of ad hoc informal conversations between people. What happens is when people are constantly moving from one thing to the next, they're just skimming over all this great stuff you're giving them, and they so rarely integrate what they're learning. So again, a slower pace and a more spacious schedule really does allow the experience to be planted, to become a little bit more rooted, in people's souls. But again, I'm just, I know very well that the intuition is people aren't going to feel like they got what they paid for. You know, they're paying to be at this place and there's this speaker person who's got all this expertise and I just want them to back up their dump truck and give me everything they know. And that would be great if learning worked as filling up a receptacle. But that is not what training and Christian education is. We believe all teaching and training is formational, and that's a very different model than filling up a container.
00:23:45
Speaker 2: You can hear that it's a pretty deep-seated bias on our part. But that's because we're practitioners, and we think all Christians should be practitioners. We're being formed into the image of Christ. And as Dallas Willard would have said, Christ-likeness, right? And so if we
are apprentices, if we are disciples, if we are sheep following a shepherd, then it's change we're after. You know, we're over the long haul being formed. And so only taking in information is just not enough. And so the space to have all these other things that we're talking about, in a way, this one we just talked about is sort of an overarching thing. for all the things we're talking about. We make sure there's enough space so all the things that we're suggesting here can happen. And I will say, it takes some courage to do this. And it also takes a look at your own ego. If we're going to meddle for a minute here. And we're talking from experience. We're not pointing fingers, right? I think Alan and I both, you know, of course we would love to offer all the nuggets that we've got. But you've got to have some humility. I know what I know, and I have the honor and privilege of sharing what I know, but there's so much more that goes on than just what I say. It's just a little bit of humility.
00:25:08
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:25:09
Speaker 2: Moving on from there, let's move to the next one. Is this our last one? No, there's more. Oh, my goodness. We have so many of these. This one, we just called it Group Dynamics. For lack of another phrase, we just called it group dynamics. And this is the one where we just remember that every group has a range of personalities. And it's a skill to learn how to sort of hold space for multiple people, all of whom are different and have different agendas for why they're there or what's going on.
00:25:38
Speaker 1: So, yeah.
00:25:39
Speaker 2: For example, around the table we shared earlier that we like to have people turn in twos or we like to have people share. Well, there are some personalities where people will speak up. They do it easily. They do it quickly. Other personalities take a little bit of time. They have to bake it in the oven for a bit before they might feel ready to share. And so especially if we're with people for longer than just a workshop, we start to pay attention to that. And as facilitators, we just try to pay attention to to how that might be balancing out. We want to make sure that quieter people have room to contribute. And we want to encourage the whole group to listen well and not just jump in to correct or fix what someone shares. We have some pretty strong opinions about that as well. We're never in a place where we're in fix-it mode or giving advice. We teach and train people how to be gracious listeners holding space for where people are and not jumping to fix it unless a person specifically asks for something. So we try to just watch how all this plays out. For the most part, again, the people that lean in toward us have some really great self-awareness already built in. So it's not like we don't feel like police ever, but it is something that we watch for so that we can shepherd the conversation. For example, I have, and Alan does too, we do a lot of Zoom interactions even. And sometimes that's even a little easier because you can see on the screen who hasn't spoken. And so every once in a while, I'll just call people out, not to embarrass them, but just say, hey, you've been real quiet today. What are you thinking? And sometimes that's all a person needs is a little invitation because they're shy. So that's what I'm talking about. Just be aware of who's in the room and see if you can help draw people out. And if you have to, which again, we've never had to do this, Alan, I don't think. You can remind me if I'm wrong, but as a leader, You might need to address this directly, right? Somehow shepherding well the room. So there are some people who might want to be talking too much, might need to dial it back. Those that are quiet might need to come forward. But just being aware of that. What do you think about that one?
00:27:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, I can think of times where we've tried to find a tactful way to say, you know, some of you are going to buy us the quiet. And we understand that. Like you said, they want to think a while before they talk. And then there's other people who think out loud. They think by talking. So being able to sense that and sort of being able to invite a group to honor each other so that those who find talking easy and actually the best way to think will realize some people are being quiet, but they may need space, a little space of nobody talking to sort of step up and share what's happening inside of them. One of the things this says is your teaching is not just about you and your content. It's about learning about the people you're with as much as you can. Admittedly, sometimes we'll go and we'll speak to a group we've never met. We don't know anything about them. But even when that's true, you get the sense of the tone of a group. And you can be sensitive to that. You can be tuned into that. I get the sense when I watch Jesus interact with a lot of different people, his responses to them look like him talking to different people. He is person oriented. He's aware. He's attentive. And he speaks to where people are. That's what we want to learn how to do in this whole matter of group dynamic. It's a skill to be cultivated. So that then takes us to another dimension. Big conviction for us. And again, this taps back up top to the spacious schedule. One of the other things that you can add into the flow of what you do other than... teaching content is space for reflection. I often say, you know, our theme here is unhurried, unhurried living. Reflection is one of the things that gets crowded out when we get in a hurry. And so taking time to stop and look back at where we've been Look back at what we've been learning. Look back at insights that we've been gaining. And just to chew on it a little bit. Remember a little bit. That helps deepen what has been learned. Sometimes that can be done in writing, maybe in a journaling sort of exercise. Sometimes just a little bit of space for
prayerful thought or reflection can help. Sometimes just sitting quietly together, even in a group. or letting people go off and be alone to sit quietly with God. All of these can be ways to open up space for reflection. It really is a strategic, unhurried practice that we make space for in our training. Along with reflection, often, for example, a multiple-day retreat, we'll make time in the very last session for reflection and for gratitude. Gratitude is sort of a special variety of reflection. It's the looking back for opportunities to say thank you. And so making space for that in the gathering. Oh, no, we're not going to be able to teach as much content if we do that. But again, our experience over and over is that these sorts of things deepen the learning. And it's far more likely that learning will stick for days, weeks, months to come. As opposed to, too many of us know, we've been to that long all-day seminar thing, and we heard just a boatload of content, and we all know what it's like to look back and ask ourselves, what did they say? I don't remember any of it. Like, very little of it stuck, partly because we didn't have time to let it sink in. So again, this is one more way we can make our schedules in a teaching or training environment a little more spacious. And that is by giving people the space and the time and the guidance to reflect back on what they're hearing and learning and experiencing.
00:32:10
Speaker 2: No, that's really good. I love reflection. We do. We build that into everything we do. Again, each one of these things is shrinkable or expandable depending upon the amount of time you have you can give people 10 minutes of reflection i've done that before and it is amazing when i was leading uh pilgrimages to italy we would give women 10 minutes in the evening to journal and the things that would pour into them and then out of them as they shared just from 10 minutes of remembering what happened that day it's amazing We've also given people 20, 30 minutes to reflect in a gathering. Again, we had many days to spread this all out. And so it expands and it shrinks depending on the time that you have.
00:32:51
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:32:52
Speaker 2: So this is actually the last one. This one might also seem a little obvious, but this is important to us. I think it's in our vision and mission statement on our website.
00:33:02
Speaker 1: It is.
00:33:03
Speaker 2: We have committed. Well, there's two ways to take the sentence. The sentence is practicing what we teach.
00:33:11
Speaker 1: Right.
00:33:11
Speaker 2: So one way is Alan and I actually practice what we teach. We are not perfect. But we aren't trying to lay things on other people that we are not familiar with. I can't think of anything we teach that is just this thing that we don't do that we tell other people you should do it. Right.
00:33:32
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, at least we're trying not to do that.
00:33:36
Speaker 2: We're trying not to do that. Again, we're not perfect. We don't do everything and we don't do everything exactly right. But as best as we can, we are practicing what we're saying. And we're offering to you that which we know and have experienced with God in our lives. So there's one meaning to that sentence. The other meaning to this sentence, practicing what we teach, is we give people the chance to practice what we're teaching right when we're with them. And this goes back to what we said earlier. It is unlikely that when people come to something that you're teaching, that they will hear you teach on something and that they will go home and try it on. There might be a few who can figure that out, but John Q public will have a very difficult time going back into their very busy lives and figuring out how to get that onto their calendar. So we not only teach something, but we give them the space. So if we're talking about, or teaching about noticing God's presence, we might pause right then and there and take a few minutes to do that. If we're talking about listening prayer, we might pause right there and practice listening together. If we assign solitude, we definitely guide them into some time of solitude and give them anywhere from 30 minutes to five hours. Again, it depends on the space. And when we teach rhythm of life, We have them make a first draft while they're with us. So it's not like, here's what a rhythm of life is, now go make it happen. It's very unlikely. The percentage of people who could figure out how to do that at home is very small. So by the time they leave our space, they will have created a very rudimentary first draft. So this is our bias. Give them the chance to try it on. It can enliven a sense of agency within them to try it when they get home because they're like, oh, yeah, I did that. I could try that again. I know what it felt like. I know what I did. I could probably do it again. And so these small experiences help people realize that all of these spiritual practices that we're offering our teachings, they're accessible. And they can become a part of their daily lives as well. And this list I just made, I mean, for example, when we have our PACE cohorts that are up and running now, by the end of the year, we should have three going at once, which we're very excited about. And all of this stuff we're talking about, this whole way that we're talking to you right now in this last half hour or so, all of this is modeled inside of our PACE training. So I just wanted to talk about PACE for a minute just because it just came to my mind. Since it is the place where all of this really enacts itself. Of course, it has its own curriculum. But all the ways that we're talking about here, we're modeling them. We're modeling them with you and for you. And we even lift the hood inside of our training and say, hey, you know what we just did? This is a leadership skill. And you could try this on in your own sphere. So I just wanted to mention that too. Alan, did you have
anything else to say about this practicing and then maybe another thought or two about pace?
00:36:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, you know, I think, again, this is another element of what can fill a training space other than you delivering content. There's a need for good content. There's a need for helpful insights. But now here's another thing to sort of build around the content, which is How can you help people try it on right there while you're together? And one of the things I want to say is, you know, we're not pessimistic that people don't care about what you're teaching and don't want to put it into practice, would you say? What we're actually trying to be here is compassionate. How awful to make people feel so inept that I keep learning these things and I never figured out how to put them into practice. Like that is a horrible thing to make people feel. What is better is to be able to give them experiences to be successful trying on these insights and practices and such right there when they're together. Because you'll remember something that you do far more easily than you'll remember something that you hear. I mean, that's just education theory. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:07
Speaker 2: And to put another exclamation point on that, the thing that takes it even further than doing is reflecting. So you can hear something and you learn. You can do something and you learn. But the thing that helps you start rewiring is when you reflect on it. That is why athletes envision themselves running that race. They know every turn, every corner. I've watched a video online where there are, what do you call them, the blue angels? And they sit around a table and they envision their entire flight. They have maps in front of them and they're watching themselves and imagining what it's going to be like to pull this knob or push that lever. So all of these aspects just deepen the learning and the ability to engage in the way that we're hoping people will, because we know you're the kind of person that wants to help other people. So I wonder maybe just a closing summary here from what we've said. Of course, we're going to teach. Of course, we're going to teach. There are things to say. There's scripture to look at together. There are insights to pass on. But we've just come to see that formation rarely happens through information only. Information is good, but it's only a part of what goes on. It unfolds as people listen to God, they reflect on their lives, and they share with other people. these are all really important aspects of our teaching and training and then our role as facilitators is to simply create this environment where all of these things can happen and that's a skill you can learn we teach people this how would you actually facilitate something lead something teach it something so that the most uh change could become possible.
00:39:53
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Any closing thoughts on that, Alan? Yeah, I would say, so again, as you mentioned Pace, there's two sides to this. People who are coming to join us in these cohorts, one, we're training these men and women to live this way. How to be a person with that kind of spaciousness and We're giving them all kinds of experiences of these things that we've just talked about. But even more so in many ways, we are seeking to train Christian leaders to lead this way in their environment, right? Whether your leadership happens in an informal sort of relational way or whether your leadership is a position in an organization and you have some scope of responsibility that includes teaching or training. Pace is about helping you lead this way and to discover how to better teach and better train the people entrusted to your care. And that's one of the things we think is unique about the design of Pace and why we feel so passionately about these opportunities for leaders to come. And what I would argue is to learn to teach in the spirit of Jesus, the way Jesus taught.
00:41:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. That's what we're loving to do. Well, Alan, thanks for joining up with me here as we share some of our insights on what we believe good teaching structures could include to help people. And so we just pray for you all that you will be blessed in how God is forming you right now and that that will make its way out into however you influence other people. That's what we hope for you.
00:41:48
Speaker 1: I just add my voice of agreement. That's a good thing.
00:41:52
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me on the Unhurried Living Podcast. You can download free resources and learn more about us at unhurriedliving.com. And please subscribe and share this podcast with your friends and colleagues. We'd also like to thank our partner, Life Audio. Check out their other faith-centered podcasts at lifeaudio.com. Blessings to you as you make your way.