TRANSKRIPT 🔗
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Welcome back to Thoughts on Change.
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Now, before we get into today's topic, I want to take a moment to celebrate the fact that it is our 20th episode.
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Right?
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Many podcasts don't make it this far.
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And honestly, there have been days and weeks where I've wondered if this is worth it.
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But then I meet someone who says, I love your podcast.
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Or somebody says, I need to listen at my desk so I can write things down.
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So thank you.
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Thank you to everyone who has continued to encourage me and remind me that this is worth it.
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Because I'll tell you, it's pretty quiet on this side sometimes.
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Unless, of course, you count all of those voices in my head, but we'll save that for another conversation.
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All right, back to the reason we are here to talk about how to herd humans without losing our minds.
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Recently, we've been spending a lot of time talking about resistance.
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We've talked about the future people imagine when a change is coming, and we've talked about what they might be afraid they're going to lose when that future becomes real.
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And if you've been listening along, you might be starting to look at resistance a little differently.
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Instead of asking, how do I get them to stop resisting?
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Hopefully, you are asking, what are they seeing that I'm not seeing?
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Or what are they trying to protect?
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And I love that shift.
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But there's another side of this conversation that we touched on in early episodes, but not with the depth of how we've talked about resistance.
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And it's that side that can be a little uncomfortable.
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Because eventually, if we're going to get really good at leading change, we have to turn the lens back on ourselves.
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Not just why are they resisting, but how am I responding to their resistance?
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And here's the uncomfortable truth.
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Sometimes our attempts to help and convince are actually making things harder.
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And the really tricky part, it's not easy for us to see that.
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And we're probably not doing it on purpose, right?
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We're trying to help.
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We're trying to make the change easier.
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We're trying to answer their questions.
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We're trying to address their concerns.
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We're trying to give them more information.
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We're trying to get things moving, right?
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Overall, we're trying to make the change successful.
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Our intentions are so good.
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And yet, somehow, the conversation gets worse.
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The person gets more frustrated, they dig in, and we're sitting there thinking, what the heck just happened?
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I was trying to help.
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Yep.
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That's what we're going to talk about today.
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So let's get to it.
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Welcome to Thoughts on Change, the podcast about the messy, political, emotional, deeply human side of leading change.
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I'm Kelly, and I believe anyone can implement lean tools until they actually have to get people to use them.
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Run here, we talk about how to move culture, how to build credibility, and how to influence without bulldozing.
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Basically, how to herd humans without losing your mind.
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I want to start with a really simple idea.
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Our intent and the impact we have on others are not the same thing.
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And I think we know this intellectually, but I think change leaders have a particularly difficult relationship with this idea because most of us are in this work precisely because we want to help people.
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We want people to have better processes, better systems, better results, less frustration, less wasted effort, more capability, more confidence.
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And we're not walking into someone's day thinking, how can I make this person's life more difficult?
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We're thinking, how can I make this better for them?
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And that matters.
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Our intent matters.
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But unfortunately, it isn't the whole story.
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You see, the other person doesn't experience our intent.
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They experience our behavior.
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They experience our words and questions.
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They experience what happens in the conversation.
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And then what happens after the conversation.
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They experience our impact.
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And sometimes there is a pretty significant gap between those two things.
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Let me share an instance where this was true for me.
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I had been working in change management for about a year when I was given a direct report.
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And we
Load full transcript
seemed to communicate really well and have a really great working relationship.
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She helped me so much with helping one team in particular transform the way they were operating, which led to significant results.
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All of my intentions were good, right?
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Helping that team have better performance, helping my direct report learn and grow.
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And then I got some 360 feedback, and I couldn't believe it.
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My direct report was not as thrilled with our work and our relationship as I thought.
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Where I thought I was being really supportive and clear with expectations.
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She didn't know where I stood with her and didn't see me taking any feedback for myself.
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And this was one of the most jarring experiences I have ever had.
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And it taught me a really valuable lesson.
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I can conceptually know all of the things about lean and CI and know conceptually how to lead, but that doesn't mean it translates into my practice.
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Because my intent was severely misaligned with my actual impact.
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So, what might this look like for you?
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Let's go through a few potential examples.
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Imagine someone tells you, I'm worried this new process is going to make my job harder.
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And you think, I can help, naturally.
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So you explain why the new process is actually going to make their job easier.
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You give them the data, you show them the time study, you walk through the future state process.
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You leave the conversation thinking, great, I addressed their concern and made them feel better.
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But they leave thinking they didn't listen to me at all.
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Or imagine someone says, we've tried this before and it didn't work.
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And you think, okay, okay, let me explain why this time is going to be different so I can address your concerns.
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So you tell them about the new leadership support, the updated process, the lessons that you learned from before, and the things that you're changing going forward about that approach.
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And you leave thinking, I gave them the information they needed to feel better.
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But they leave thinking they just tried to talk me out of my experience.
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Or maybe someone is struggling with a problem or trying to get better performance.
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And you know exactly how to fix it and what tool to use.
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So you jump in, you give
them the answer, you make the connection, you tell them what you would do.
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You might even do some of the work for them thinking they don't have the time because you are being helpful.
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But they might walk away thinking, well, apparently I'm not capable of figuring this out myself.
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Or at least she doesn't think so.
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And this is where I think change leadership gets really interesting and difficult because when we're looking at someone else's resistance, we naturally focus on their behavior.
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They're pushing back, they are questioning, they are delaying, they are complaining, they're not following through, they are saying no.
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But when we're looking at our own behavior, we naturally focus on our intention.
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I was trying to help.
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I was trying to clarify, I was trying to make it easier, I was trying to give them what they needed, I was trying to move things forward.
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And so when the person reacts badly, we're really confused because we're evaluating ourselves based on what we meant to do, but they're evaluating us based on what they experienced, what we physically did.
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And both perspectives can be completely understandable.
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And that's the gap.
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Intent is what we meant to create, and impact is what we actually created.
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And the bigger the gap between those two things, the more likely we are to have a problem and experience more resistance.
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Because here's where I think we got ourselves into trouble.
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When someone reacts negatively to our attempt to help, our first instinct is often to explain our intent.
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That's not what I meant.
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I was only trying to help.
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I wasn't trying to criticize you.
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I just wanted to make sure you had all the information.
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I'm just trying to make this easier for you.
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And all of those things are probably true.
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But when we do this, we're now asking the other person to understand our experience, the one in our head.
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When what they probably need is for us to understand theirs.
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This is just like the imagined future problem from episode 18.
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And go back and check that out if you haven't listened to it.
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We are responding to the current reality while they are imagining a future.
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And when we aren't aligned, that gap can create a big problem.
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The same is true here, right?
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We are responding to an invisible intention in our head, and they are responding to a reality that is happening to them.
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And when they aren't aligned, there can be a big problem.
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So here is what I would propose.
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What if instead of us saying that's not what I meant?
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Instead we said, that's really interesting that you experienced me that way.
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That's not the impact I intended.
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Can you help me understand what landed that way?
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Now we're curious.
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We're not defending our intent or explaining it.
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We're investigating our impact.
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And I think that will help get to the bottom of closing this gap much better than our tried and trude method of explaining more.
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Now I can already hear the CI practitioner in the back of the room saying, okay, Kelly, but sometimes people really are being difficult.
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Yes, absolutely.
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I have experienced that.
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Not every objection is caused by our behavior, not every disagreement is a misunderstanding, and not every person who pushes back is secretly waiting for us to ask the perfect question and connect with them.
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But this doesn't mean that we should not make every effort on our side to do so.
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We can only control our responses.
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And this isn't about turning every instance of resistance into you asking, what did I do wrong?
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It's about becoming curious enough to ask, wait, what's happening here?
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Including how we might be contributing to the problem.
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Because here is how I have seen most conversations where resistance is present go.
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We share something that is going to change.
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Someone resists.
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We respond with information.
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They dig in.
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So we give them even more information.
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They get frustrated.
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So we explain ourselves.
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They pull away, so we push harder.
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And suddenly we're in a resistance spiral.
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They're responding to us, we're responding to them, they're reacting to our reaction, we're reacting to theirs.
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Ah.
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And neither person is really talking about what's underneath the conversation anymore.
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We're just trying to get the other person to move.
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And because we have been trained to see the problem and the solution, we're trained to see why the current way sucks.
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We're trained to analyze the causes.
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We're trained to identify the gaps.
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We're trained to improve the processes and systems.
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And these are incredibly valuable skills.
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But when we apply this same mindset to the people that we are asking to change, we can accidentally return the person into the problem.
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Right?
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Someone isn't buying in.
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What's wrong with them?
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Someone isn't engaging.
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What's their barrier?
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Someone won't follow the process.
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Why are they resisting?
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And before we know it, we're treating a human being like a thing, which probably isn't going to create the kind of engagement we're hoping for.
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This is where something really bad can happen.
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We can start to believe they are the reason this is so difficult.
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When in reality, we are part of the reason.
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And that's uh that's uncomfortable as hell.
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But I think it can also be incredibly empowering.
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Because if our behavior is part of the problem, great news.
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We can control and change that.
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So here's the experiment I want all of us to try.
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The next time someone resists something, before you ask, what do they need from me to make them feel better about this?
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Ask, what am I doing right now?
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Am I explaining?
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Am I trying to convince?
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Am I trying to fix something?
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Am I teaching them when they don't need it?
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Am I avoiding something?
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Am I trying to make the discomfort go away?
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Am I trying to get them to agree with me?
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Am I trying to prove that my solution is a good one?
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Or am I actually trying to understand what's happening?
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And here's the really important part.
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Don't judge the answer.
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Just notice it.
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Because I promise we're going to come back to this a lot.
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And there's another question I want us asking ourselves.
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Not just what does this person need, our default, but what am I trying to make happen right now?
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Because maybe underneath it all, I'm trying to make them understand.
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Or maybe I'm trying to make them agree.
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Maybe I'm trying to make them feel better.
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Maybe I'm trying to make them take action.
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Maybe I'm trying to make the conversation end.
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Maybe I'm trying to make the resistance disappear.
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And again, none of those intentions are necessarily bad, but they tell you something about you.
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And this is really important to understand because if certain situations consistently bring out the same responses in us, there may be more going on than just a communication technique.
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So think about your own experiences.
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Is there a particular kind of resistance that drives you absolutely crazy?
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Maybe it's someone who wants more and more data.
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Maybe it's someone who keeps saying we've always done it this way.
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Maybe it's someone who agrees in the meeting and then does something completely different afterward.
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Maybe it's someone who keeps asking questions.
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Or maybe it's someone who wants to talk about feelings when you just want to solve the damn problem.
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Or maybe it's someone who seems completely checked out.
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And here's what I want you to reflect on.
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What do you do when you encounter that person?
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Do you reach for more data?
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Start explaining, take control, jump in and fix, try to keep everybody happy.
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You may notice that you have a pattern, a default response, right?
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Something you reach for almost automatically.
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And that's where we're gonna go next.
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I've spent a lot of time thinking about these patterns because I kept seeing the same thing happen.
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Change leaders who genuinely care about people, change leaders who are smart, who are experienced, and have really good intentions.
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But when resistance shows up, they become a version of themselves that isn't particularly helpful.
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Not because they're bad leaders or because they don't care, but because something about that moment triggers an automatic response in them.
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I've started calling these responses our resistibots.
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I know I'm not saying
the resistibot is the problem.
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The resistibot is actually trying to help.
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That's what makes this so interesting, right?
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Your factron wants to help by giving you facts and data.
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Your quickshift wants to help by solving the problem that is paining those people.
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Your command axe wants to help by creating structure in the chaos.
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Your doctrina wants to help by teaching.
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Your soft step wants to help by keeping the relationship safe.
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Your shell out wants to help by getting you away from the discomfort.
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These aren't random behaviors.
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They're often strengths that have become automatic responses under pressure that we end up overusing.
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And if you've ever thought, why do I keep doing that even though I know it isn't working?
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Congratulations! You may have just met your resistibot.
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But I'm not going to unpack all of the resistibots today, because I actually think there's a more important question to start with.
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Before we ask, which resistibot am I, I want you to ask what happens inside of me when someone resists me.
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Because if we're going to lead change, if we're going to lead change differently, we have to come become better observers of ourselves.
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Not better judges, better observers.
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So start to notice what happens.
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Notice what you feel.
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Notice what you want to do.
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Notice what you actually do.
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And then notice what happens next.
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The goal is to make this intent to impact gap visible so that we can learn how to shift and make our intentions explicit and really align our intention to our actions and behaviors so that our impact becomes much more closer to what we want to happen.
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And when those two things align, that's when some magic can really happen.
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All right, that was a lot.
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So here's what I want you to take away from this episode.
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Good intentions are not enough to create good impact.
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That doesn't mean your intentions don't matter.
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They absolutely do.
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But if we're serious about helping people navigate change, we have to be willing to look at that space between what we intended and what people actually experienced.
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And when someone's resistance gets stronger after we've tried to help, instead of immediately thinking, what is wrong with them?
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Try asking, what might I be doing that is contributing to this?
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Not as blame, as information.
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Because that question opens a door.
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And behind that door is a whole fascinating world of automatic responses, strengths, fears, and habits that show up when we're under pressure, including the little characters I've mentioned today, our resistibots.
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So here's your experiment for this week.
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The next time someone resists you, pause just for a moment and ask yourself three questions.
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What am I intending to create?
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What impact might I actually be having?
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And what am I doing right now in response to their resistance?
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And don't worry about fixing it yet.
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Don't try to change your response, just notice it.
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Because awareness comes before choice.
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And choice is where this gets really fun.
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So next time we're going to start getting intimate with the resistibots, and we're going to look at one of the most common ones and the most common ways change leaders generally respond to resistance.
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We're just trying to fix it.
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You know the moment, someone tells you what's wrong in your brain, immediately goes, Oh, oh, I know how to solve that.
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Right?
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You have the answer, you can see the path forward, you could probably solve this problem in about 15 minutes if they just listen to you.
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So you jump in, you help, you fix, you save the day, da-da-da.
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And then somehow they don't seem particularly grateful.
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What's up with that?
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That's what we're going to talk about next.
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Until then, pay attention to your intent, pay attention to your impact, and maybe keep an eye out for uh those resistibots.
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Thank you for listening and supporting Thoughts on Change.
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See you next time.
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That's a wrap for this episode of Thoughts on Change.
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If you're also out there trying to move culture instead of just installing tools, hit subscribe and share this with a fellow CI warrior.
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And remember, progress beats perfection, curiosity beats control, and culture beats everything.
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See you next time.