TRANSKRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:02.479
Welcome back to the Progress Report.
00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:12.560
Today's conversation is one that challenges assumptions, breaks down barriers, and quite honestly, might change the way you think about health, awareness, and advocacy.
00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.559
When most people hear the words breast cancer, they picture women.
00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.199
But the reality is it doesn't discriminate.
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.879
And for men, that misunderstanding can be dangerous.
00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:28.640
Our guest today is Jake Messier, known to many as the guy with stage four breast cancer.
00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:38.960
He's a former Marine, a seasoned marketing executive, media personality, and now one of the most visible and impactful voices in the fight to raise awareness around male breast cancer.
00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.200
Jake, welcome to the Progress Report.
00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:44.479
Take us back to the moment when you were first diagnosed.
00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:48.079
What was swing through your mind as a man hearing the words breast cancer?
00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:53.600
I think it's I think it's a similar cancer story that I think a lot of people hear, right?
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:55.520
When you when you hear the word cancer, right?
00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:58.240
Let's just take breast cancer out of the equation for a minute, right?
00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.320
When you hear you've got cancer, right?
00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.679
And I was 52 when I was diagnosed, right?
00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:08.159
Which is still very young, certainly from the male breast cancer side of things, it's still very young.
00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:10.480
So I started off with you've got cancer, right?
00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:11.840
And that's a big shock.
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:24.159
And and you know, it was funny because I went into, I mean, let's go back a little bit further, a few weeks for earlier, because uh part of the story is that it was March of 23.
00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:29.280
And if you know anything about my story, I didn't get diagnosed till September of 23.
00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:35.439
So March of 23 is when I'm putting on some deodorant and I'm like, hmm, there's a lump there, that's weird.
00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:40.159
And I literally said out loud, that's weird, and I went on with my day because what else am I supposed to do?
00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.640
Right, because I'm a guy and I'm like, okay, that's a weird thing.
00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:45.519
So literally a month goes by or something like that.
00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.040
And I'm like, well, that lump didn't go down, but it also didn't get any bigger.
00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.359
So all right, I'm just gonna go on with my day.
00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.840
So it keeps on going and going and going.
00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:58.400
We're visiting my best friends, my wife's best friend happens to be married to my best friend.
00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:02.799
We were all stationed together in Tokyo 25 years ago, so we're all very, very, very good friends.
00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:07.040
And um, you can edit this however you want to for your show.
00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.520
But he was walking by and he gave me a titty twister, right?
00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:13.039
Just a just a and it dropped me literally.
00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.840
I buckled my knees buckled and I dropped to the ground.
00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:22.159
And I was like, that's like, I mean, yeah, those things don't feel good, sure, but it's not like it's not gonna like it.
00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:24.800
Like, I I couldn't even catch my breath.
00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:26.639
And I was like, okay, this is weird.
00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:30.800
So I then went, but I didn't like connect like here and here, right?
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:32.240
I wasn't at that point yet.
00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:36.879
I'm like, okay, well, something's going on here and something's going on here, but it wasn't the same thing.
00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:45.520
So I I went to my primary care physician in August of 23, and he listed off about 10 things that it could be, and none of them were breast cancer.
00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:50.319
Um, and and he said, but let's get you to a mammogram anyway, just to be sure.
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:52.240
And thank goodness that we we did.
00:02:52.319 --> 00:03:01.520
And you know, mammograms are are tough for for men with, you know, or you know what, for anyone with breast tissue that that with a small amount of breast tissue, right?
00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:15.360
Because, you know, I think that's an important part here is that mammograms are literally for everyone because everyone that is a human being has breast tissue, and therefore you're susceptible to breast cancer.
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:22.800
That's the overarching thing of male, female, transgender, doesn't matter who you are, you've got breast tissue, you're susceptible to breast cancer.
00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:32.240
So I went to go get a mammogram, and I'm sitting there with a nurse, the radiologist hadn't come in yet, and the nurse is sitting there, and the nurse can't tell me that I have breast cancer, right?
00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.199
Because you know, it's not within her power to tell me that.
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.479
But she's also seen literally a million of these things.
00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:42.159
She's been sitting there when people have gotten it and people have not.
00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:43.759
So, I mean, now I'm an expert.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:45.280
I'm two and a half years into this thing.
00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:51.439
I, you know, I can read scan, but like that was my first time ever looking at a scan, and I'm like, I don't even really know what I'm looking at here.
00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.560
I said, I asked her, I said, you know, does this look bad?
00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:57.360
And she said, I can't tell you
Load full transcript
that.
00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:03.439
But what I can tell you is that your life is going to start moving incredibly fast and incredibly slow all at the exact same time.
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:08.800
And I can tell you nothing has come closer to the truth of my first two years than that.
00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:13.919
It has gone by like it happened yesterday, and it has dragged on like it's been 30 years.
00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:16.959
So, you know, those things were were were pretty significant.
00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:25.519
Then the doctor comes in and he says, you know, we have to do a biopsy, but you know, I can pretty much confirm that you've got breast cancer.
00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:31.360
And that sets off a whole bunch of emotions, and it is not unique to me.
00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:42.399
In fact, it's the it's one of the reasons that male breast cancer is 30, 30 more fatal than breast cancer, you know, female breast cancer.
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:43.199
30.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:50.560
And it's because men are diagnosed later because we're, you know, doing this and we're going, oh, that's weird, and we go on with our day, right?
00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:57.120
And then there's the once you get diagnosed, there's significant mental health stuff that happened.
00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:00.720
You're all of a sudden thrust into this women's disease, right?
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:07.680
That for 70 years, since breast cancer has had the biggest and best marketing campaign with the pink ribbon and all those things.
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:14.720
It's literally one of the biggest marketing campaigns in the history of mankind, you know, right up there with Coca-Cola and Ford, it's the pink ribbon.
00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:25.680
But you get thrust into this pink world and they start handing you brochures with you know, smiling white women on it, and pink and flowers and and all these things.
00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:30.480
And there's this everything in it is her and she and woman and all these things.
00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.680
And I'm like, wait a minute, I don't like fit into any of this.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:35.199
Like, what is happening?
00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:49.920
So then you start, you know, just looking online, and there's three male breast cancer organizations out there, three, you know, and there's about 2,000 breast cancer orgs that primarily focus on women, but there are three that are dedicated to women.
00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:55.519
So you find these small communities, and but there's this emasculation that happens.
00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:00.639
There is this mental health hurdle that happens that you have this women's disease.
00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:06.800
And, you know, I tell people, like when I went in for my mastectomy, I mean, the nurses were trying to be kind to me.
00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:12.319
So I'm I let them off the hook because I tell this story and I and I don't want them people to be like, oh man, they're jerks.
00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:24.079
But the nurses in the OR, they didn't put a surgical bind on me to keep sort of everything in in place after my mastectomy, because the only ones in the OR had pink and flowers on them.
00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:28.160
And I and I wake up and I'm like, put the medical device on me.
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:33.920
I don't care what it looks like, but that's the pervasiveness of the lack of understanding.
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:48.800
I mean, I just I just did a post yesterday on my TikTok that my wife went in for her mammogram last week, and the nurse working the front desk at the mammogram center, because my wife was like relaying that she's pretty hypersensitive to her mammograms because her husband has stage four cancer.
00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.279
And the nurse was like, wait, I didn't know guys could get cancer.
00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:52.959
Like guys could get breast cancer.
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.800
Like, this is this is a woman working at the mammogram center.
00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:58.160
Like, this is not uncommon.
00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:06.160
I've had probably half a dozen times that RNs or MDs, people with that next to their names, have didn't know that guys could get breast cancer.
00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:07.680
So it's sort of pervasive.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:12.000
And when you're thrust into that, you know, it's a very hard place to be.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:21.759
And a lot of guys don't come out of that, don't come out of that emotion, that emotional turmoil that happens when you get diagnosed with this.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:26.079
It's almost the same thing, you know, women get diagnosed with colorectal disease, right?
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.800
That's 95% men, 5% women.
00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:34.399
Breast cancer is 99% men, or sorry, 99% women, and 1% men.
00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:45.759
It's only 2,800 cases a year in the US, where you know, one in eight women are gonna experience breast cancer, one in 728 men are gonna experience breast cancer.
00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:51.920
So it's you know, when you start, when you when you enter this world, you have to decide on whether you want to be in it or not.
00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:57.040
And and that, and that's a mental hurdle that I think a lot of guys never get over.
00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:05.519
In fact, you know, I'll you know, I'll sort of sum up here in a second, but like there's a lot of anecdotal evidence, and I'll get into why it's anecdotal.
00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:12.879
Um, there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that men who are diagnosed actually don't ever start treatment.
00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:22.959
There are some guys, or they, you know, they drop out of treatment because they can't handle that being in that feminine, you know, just being in that pink bubble, right?
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:32.080
And look, I I get it that if you can't go to treatment because you can't stand the color pink, that that's a level of toxic masculinity
that you know that that we shouldn't have.
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:41.519
But at the same time, like me as the as the global spokesperson of male breast cancer, I'll work on the toxic masculinity with the guys that are over here, right?
00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:43.440
That's 3,000 years of evolution.
00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:44.240
I'll work on that.
00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.679
How about you paint your waiting room yellow or green or some other color?
00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:55.120
Because that's a way easier solution to make people feel included than actually just you know sticking to the pink mantra out there.
00:08:55.279 --> 00:09:04.720
So, you know, there's a lot that goes into the psychology and the mental health stigma of male breast cancer that I just don't think a lot of people understand.
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:07.200
And Jake, two two follow-up questions to that.
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.840
Number one, um, you know, you say it's one in 700 men.
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:17.519
How do we know that that number is not higher and it's just totally undiagnosed men that just never even got checked?
00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.240
And that's part of the question here, right?
00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:22.159
That could be much higher, right?
00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.320
Yeah, um, or it could be much lower, it could be like one in 300 men.
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:36.080
We just don't know how many guys are going undiagnosed or passing away from other things or whatever, that breast cancer could have been part of the factors.
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:36.799
We just don't know.
00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:43.200
I mean, the male breast cancer global alliance, um, they sort of keep the stats on this.
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:54.799
But at the end of the day, the the point that I made earlier, where we just don't know, and it's anecdotal, in the 70 years of breast cancer research, you know, 20 billion dollars has been spent in breast cancer research.
00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.600
Guess how many dollars have been spent on the differences between male and female breast cancer?
00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:00.480
I'll give you a hint.
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:03.279
You could hold up your hand and put zero, and that would be the right number.
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:03.759
Wow.
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:08.879
So not why dime has been spent on is this even the same disease?
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:20.879
Like, and I get treated at Dana Farber, which is which has, as far as we know, the only male breast cancer department in the world of any cancer center.
00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:31.600
They have a clinical, I mean, there's those other cancer centers that have a clinical side, or they'll maybe have a few guys that work in male breast cancer, but Dana Farber has a clinical and a research department for male breast cancer.
00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:36.000
And my oncologist just happens to be the head of that guy, Pablo Leone.
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:39.919
And Pablo will tell me all the time, Jake, I don't know anything about male breast cancer.
00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.320
Like that's different than what I talk about with any of my other female patients.
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:56.000
So I get treated, I get the same drugs that all the female breast cancer patients get because they literally, and those are estrogen-blocking drugs, which messes with all kinds of hormonal things in my system.
00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:00.320
But they literally just don't know if that's the best way to treat me or not.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:03.600
So they're just like, well, we we think it works, so let's keep on going.
00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.039
That's sort of where we're at.
00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:15.519
And Jake, that kind of leads me to my next question that I was going to ask, which is basically why do you think that the breast cancer awareness community, obviously, this is the you know, the cat's out of the bag that men can get this?
00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:22.159
I mean, I would have thought I would have thought day one, the first case, they would have said, okay, we need to start, you know, gearing this towards everyone.
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.320
I mean, it you know, as a baseball player, I know on Mother's Day it's always, you know, the pink bats and pink socks.
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.200
And, you know, and the fact that it's on Mother's Day, it's very much geared towards women.
00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:46.159
I would think that there would be some type of evolution of the uh, you know, the cause, so to speak, to say, okay, we need to start making this all inclusive for all human beings because it's it's something that all human beings can get.
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.279
Why do you think they've, you know, they haven't caught up with that yet?
00:11:49.840 --> 00:12:03.919
I'm gonna start off by saying over the past two years, and I'm not gonna say it's just because of me, but it's because of me and if I've inspired somebody that start talking about this, because there's a bunch of guys that have been too embarrassed to put this on their social.
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.679
I had a guy reach out to me last week that was like, I had breast cancer 12 years ago.
00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:08.639
I'm in remission.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.960
Four people knew I had breast cancer.
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.600
My wife, my two kids, and my mom.
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:19.600
Everybody else just knew I was sick or I had cancer because I was too embarrassed to ever say the word breast cancer.
00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:28.240
So he just put breast cancer survivor on his Facebook profile, and he said he felt brave enough because, you know, I've been doing this.
00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:28.960
So great.
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.039
So the tide is changing.
00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:43.279
I will tell you for those three male breast cancer organizations that are out there that have been around for 10 or 15 years, they've been beating their heads
against the wall to get the organizations, the big breast cancer organizations like Susan G.
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:52.720
Comen, like the National Breast Cancer Foundation, like the Breast Cancer Research Foundation, the big, big dogs, and they have been pushed back for a long time.
00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:53.200
Wow.
00:12:53.440 --> 00:13:12.399
But I will tell you that in the past two years, Coleman and NBCF and some of the other big dogs on the on the on the block are now opening themselves up to not just male breast cancer, but you know, here's where we go with discrimination in breast cancer is really real.
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:13.600
It's a real thing.
00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:26.960
If you don't fit the model of an older slash elderly Caucasian middle, middle sort of wealth individual that every breast cancer organization plasters all over their website.
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:35.200
If you're a male or if you're a black female, or if you're an Asian female, or you know, the transgender community gets lost in all of this, right?
00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.320
You know, male to female, female to male, they get lost in all of this.
00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:43.120
You don't have a really good feeling about the breast cancer community, right?
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:50.159
You know, and then, you know, I go to breast cancer conferences, there's 800 women there and me, right?
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.360
And and and I'm going to one in Philadelphia in a couple of weeks.
00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:55.039
There's going to be 400 women and me.
00:13:55.120 --> 00:14:00.480
And you know, I'm walking in the Komen three-day walk in August, and it's going to be, you know, 2,000 women and me.
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:13.039
And so there's always this feeling like you're, you know, you're being scrutinized, and and and and but I've been told to my face by multiple women that men have too much voice in this world.
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.480
And look, I'm one of the people that probably agrees with that, right?
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.759
Men have too much voice in this world, and you're not taking mine away from me.
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:20.879
And I'm like, what do you?
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:22.480
I'm just trying to get mine heard.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:24.480
Like, I'm not trying to take away your voice.
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:32.960
So you know, like I tried to join a in-person breast cancer support group about a month ago that that was local to me, right?
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:41.679
I get, you know, there are a ton of Zoom ones that I can join, but I wanted to find literally some people that I could go sit in a room with and just sort of commiserate as breast cancer patients, right?
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:55.039
There was a breast cancer group and a metastatic breast cancer group, which, you know, just so you know, the metastatic breast cancer people like like me, we are never invited to the regular brecer groups because we are their worst nightmares.
00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.000
If you're stage one through three, you're on the curable track.
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.440
And if you're metastatic, you represent their worst nightmares.
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:16.240
So most of the time, metastatic breast cancer patients are not invited to the regular breast cancer group because we and then you know, I I asked this organization if I could join, and they and they told me no, because it would, you know, it would ruin this safe space that women had.
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.720
And I'm like, but it's not a women's disease.
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:23.519
And yeah, they offered me to go to the prostate cancer group.
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:28.879
And I'm like, there's nothing to I mean, yes, I have cancer, but like that's where it ends.
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:32.000
Like prostate cancer is literally an all-male disease.
00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:39.360
They don't have this feeling of isolation, they don't have these feelings of of you know, it's an all-male any guy going there, you know, belongs there.
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:46.000
And so it kind of spits in the face of the whole, you know, inclusive thing that you know, I I there's there's been so many strides.
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.399
Um, you know, again, I'm a baseball guy.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:52.240
For me, there's a there's a lot of girls out there that want to play baseball.
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.559
They don't want to play softball, and it's a different game.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:56.240
It's you know, it's very, very similar.
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:02.000
But I've always said, you know, why can't they allow girls to play softball or to play baseball?
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.399
And they they've started to make that movement.
00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:13.440
And I would think that, you know, they would see in return there there's there's men that deal with this, and this is this is we're talking about life or death here.
00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:20.000
This is not just um you want to you want to join a group to uh I agree to play Pinochle with them or something like that.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:26.159
This is this is serious stuff that I think you know it's not the time for there to be two two wrongs making a right here.
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:35.600
I think that you know you've you've I get it that they want to have their voice and they want to be able to have their time to share, but like you said, it's it's no longer just a female game.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.200
We've learned now that it's men.
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:42.240
Do you do you think that we have a woman with us, and so I'd love to hear her perspective on what that looks like.
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:46.480
You know, it you know, I I that women need safe spaces.
00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:46.960
I do.
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:51.440
I get places to talk about intimacy because breast cancer affects that, right?
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:59.679
With women, and and I get
all of those things, but I experience all the exact same things that you were experiencing, right?
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:07.519
I, you know, I lift up my shirt and show my mastectomy scar, and women at a breast cancer conference are like, hey, you know, they're just lifting up their shirts all day long.
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.240
And I'm like, it's a very different environment, right?
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:11.920
It's fascinating to me.
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:19.440
It's fascinating to me that you're dealing with a with a with a disease that is for men so rare.
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:25.680
And and you know, you you've you've hit on a lot of a lot of points I wanted to ask you about, right?
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.559
You feel isolated, you feel confused.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:40.000
And and I mean I think more than your typical diagnosis, and and in large part because you are a man in a woman's world, if you will.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:54.880
But you would think that at some point that they would say, I mean, I mean I I'm thinking of like grad school where we'd have the class, but then the class breaks off into little subgroups, right?
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:56.799
And the subgroups work on different things.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:12.480
So, like, why not have something like that where you you come together as a community of of breast cancer survivors at the table and everybody has a different experience, a different um story to share, and and you talk about that stuff.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:23.839
But then when you when you need that additional support and and and you know, you want the sanctity of of the people in the room that you're speaking to, you do like breakouts, right?
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:24.319
Like that.
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.079
But you're not you're not saying, oh, hey, Jake, you're a man.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.200
Yeah, you don't get anything.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:50.799
So so my my question to you is, you know, very clearly you very intentionally made the decision to go public with your journey when you started dealing with this, and I I assume a large part of it is is because of what we're talking about, right?
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:54.240
There's there's not a lot of resources for men with breast cancer.
00:18:54.400 --> 00:19:01.039
So what was your turning point when you when you said, look, I'm I'm gonna go public with all with all of this and share my story?
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.000
What would what was your your turn turning point to get there?
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:04.400
Right.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:11.519
So as I said, you know, those first six months, I was not in the emotional, mental place to be able to do that, right?
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:12.720
I was not there.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.359
I was just dealing with, you know, you you sort of hit the nail on the head earlier.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.480
You're you're already dealing with a cancer diagnosis, right?
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.759
Which is which is it it turns your whole world in.
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:29.599
I've been like I said, I've been doing this for two and a half years now, and now things don't phase me like they did two and a half years ago, right?
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:37.119
But you're you know, you're you're on this journey, and I have been, because my background is as a marketing executive, right?
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.759
I have worked in nonprofit marketing for my entire career for 30 years.
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:49.920
I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps as a public affairs guy doing print journalism, broadcast journalism, community relations, media affairs, all those kinds of things.
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:54.960
I then transitioned into the Boston nonprofit ecosystem where I worked in all of those things.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:20:00.799
So my my heart and my professional heart has always been with helping other people.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.480
I've always worked with nonprofits.
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:08.000
I've always worked as a CEO or a CMO or you know, at a high level with those organizations.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:09.599
So I've already done this.
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:16.319
And then for seven years, I owned New England's largest marketing agency for nonprofits, right?
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:21.359
So social media, PR, communications, graphic design, all that stuff, right?
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:27.680
And for since 2008, I've used Facebook as my daily diary.
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.400
Literally, there's a post on there every day.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:36.880
And so what I when I started just documenting what was happening at chemo, right?
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.039
I was like, oh, I guess people want to know what.
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:47.839
So it was really just my friends and family, because my friends, my my Facebook is just largely just whoever is, I have to know you to be friends with you.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:55.920
So I just started like, okay, I'm going to chemo today and just sort of doing what a lot of people on on social do, they document their journey.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:03.599
But as I started to do this, I was like, well, maybe I'll throw one over here on my public Instagram and see how that people respond to that.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.359
And a bunch of people flocked over there.
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:10.640
And I was like, well, I've been doing this for a very long time, and I know media and I know social media.
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:18.000
So I was like, well, let me take all of these skills that I've, you know, made over the past, you know, I have a whole IMDB page.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.400
I've been a producer and a director of photography on feature films and reality shows.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.319
So like I know how to use this really effectively, right?
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:27.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.160
So I took all the skills that I had.
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:32.960
You know, if I was a chemist, this would have been much harder, right?
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.279
If I was an airline pilot, this would have been much harder.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:37.839
But I know how to publicize things.
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:39.119
It's what I, it's what I do.
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:45.920
And so I was like, well, I'm gonna turn all of these things onto this guy with stage four breast cancer brand, right?
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:50.720
And I was like, well, as a marketing guy, I've always said, like, say exactly what you do.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:54.799
And so I was like, well, you know, at the guy with stage four breast cancer, right?
00:21:54.960 --> 00:22:15.599
And and even if I, you know, in my my thought process at the time, which is now starting to Bear fruit, you know, again, this is a long, slow, you know, I've got almost 50,000 followers now, but like having worked with celebrities and influencers for most of my adult life, like I understand that$50,000, 50,000 followers does not make an influencer.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:16.000
I get that.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:21.200
But 50,000 followers in the male breast cancer community or even the cancer community is a huge number, right?
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:21.759
Absolutely.
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:23.279
When you're talking about this.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:29.519
So I was just like, well, let's start putting this out and seeing what happens.
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:41.440
And that's what I found was about 94%, as my audience started to grow, about 94% of my audience, because again, I'm a marketing guy, so I dive into the analytics every other day.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.519
94% of my audience are women age 45 to 64.
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.799
That's my core audience.
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:54.319
And most of them work in breast cancer, are breast cancer, you know, they they are connected to breast cancer in that way.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.240
That's majority of my audience.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:01.759
There are occasionally men who reach out to me, but that's really far and few between.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:09.200
But as I've grown, I my ability to answer DMs and to answer comments as many that are coming in every day are restricted.
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:12.880
But I will always make the time for a guy that calls me.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:16.079
You know, if he's like, hey, I found a lump and I'm really scared.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.720
And the first thing I say to him, hey, odds are on your side that this is not what it is, right?
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:22.960
It's a 99% to 1%.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:24.799
The odds are in your favor.
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:30.559
And literally, I think I've had 10 guys, maybe 10, maybe 12 guys, and since I've been doing this, reach out to me.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.920
And, you know, all of them have come back negative, right?
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:40.319
Now I've had a lot of breast cancer, male breast cancer patients, and we have a lot of conversations about what it's like.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.799
But, you know, what I realized is that there was a void, right?
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:49.839
And and you know, if you're gonna start a business, and none of this is a business, I don't make any money off of any of this, right?
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:56.000
But like when you're gonna start a business, finding a hole or a or a void is the important part.
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.319
And when I started looking around, I'm like, there is nobody talking about this.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:08.240
Like there is no, I mean, yes, the male breast cancer orgs, and I don't want to diminish what they were doing, but they were only talking to their members, right?
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.599
They weren't talking to the breast cancer at large, right?
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.680
They weren't talking to cancer at large, they weren't talking to people, general population, right?
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:26.400
Just they weren't talking to anybody, and so I was like, all right, so my audience then I can then I start segmenting my audiences because I'm a marketing guy, right?
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.160
And I'm like, okay, my audience should really be breast cancer first, right?
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:44.319
And I'm not gonna be the, you know, yes, I'm the guy with stage four breast cancer, but that's not my mission, is to sit up there and make sure that you know I'm gonna sit at the table as a breast cancer patient, and just the fact that I'm sitting at the table is gonna tell you my gender, right?
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.799
I don't have to be there and be special or a unicorn.
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:53.759
I'm just gonna sit there with the other 10 breast cancer patients, and the fact that I'm sitting there, and that's that's what's starting to come to fruition.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:25:09.519
Like that's where Komen, you're like Coleman again, being the big dog in the on the Coleman last October, being breast cancer awareness month, yeah, had eight global influencers that they chose to put out there as part of their breast cancer campaign, right?
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:13.759
And usually Coleman does, you know, seven white women and then one diversity, right?
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.759
That's usually what Coleman ends up doing, right?
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:22.960
And this time they chose me, and it's the first time that they've chosen a male patient that they put out in front of their community.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.839
And since then, I've done the Komen their podcast, which goes out to you know tens of thousands of people.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:28.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:31.359
They just featured me on their three-day blog the other day.
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:43.039
Um I'm actually asking, being asked to join a steering committee, which is again one of the first times a male, they've had lots of
male doctors on their committees, but no male patients.
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:58.240
So I think, you know, and not just with Comen, the National Breast Cancer Foundation, they asked me to review, because I again I was in the military, they asked me to review their entire military veterans program because it was all about women, and they're like, we are totally missing the mark.
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:00.640
So people are starting to pay attention.
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.920
And I don't know if it's because I post every day and I'm and I'm raising the alarm bells or whatever it is.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:09.680
I I'm a firm believer that if you just talk about something every day, you can change the world.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:16.880
And so, you know, I I don't know if it's me or if it's just the movement or if it's just the time is right, whatever it is.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:17.759
I don't care.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:21.359
I'm not doing it for me or my social media clout or my followers.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:35.119
I'm literally doing this for the for the 10,000 guys behind me that haven't died of this yet, yeah, that don't have the voice or don't don't have the ability to say this or have been marginalized during their entire journey.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.599
Yeah, I'll put you on my back, guys.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:38.079
Let's go.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.400
Let's let's make a difference, you know.
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:42.480
And it's not for me, you know.
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:44.240
I'm doing this.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:54.720
I mean, there's there's a reality here that I have stage four breast cancer, and the and the reality is is that the average lifespan of a stage four breast cancer patient is 18 to 24 months.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:55.839
That that's a reality.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:00.720
Now, there are some people that go 17 years, but you guys are smart and you do math.
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:05.119
If there are people outliers going 17 years, there are outliers going three months.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:12.720
And so, like 18 to 24 months, you know, I'm past that already with you know in my journey.
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:14.720
So every day is a gift.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:23.920
And every day, and a lot of people say every day is a gift, but I think you know, when you have when you are living in a condensed timeline, that's what I am, right?
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:33.519
I determine that I am going to be as effective in doing this as I can, because what I want is not for breast cancer to embrace us.
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:36.000
That that would be a happy accident of this.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:44.319
What I really want is for the guy that's gonna go through this in three years, that's gonna be like, holy shit, like I'm so scared, I don't know what to do.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:50.160
And that person finds this social, and even if I'm gone, this social is gonna live on forever.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.720
And there are there is so much content on there.
00:27:52.880 --> 00:28:06.880
There's there's seven, seven-part series on you know, how to avoid anxiety, your upcoming scan, and you have all this scanxiety for it, you know, this that there's what to you know, how to deal with chemo, how to deal with the pink bubble.
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.440
And so those guys can feel empowered three to five years from now.
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:16.960
You know, there's that adage that wise men plant seeds that they're never gonna sit in the shade of, and that's what I'm doing.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:25.680
I am literally paving the way so that in a couple years, somebody that's way better at this than I am is gonna go out there and kill it and make it that much bigger.
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:33.359
And so I'm just I'm just you know, I'm not starting this, I'm just the current torch bearer somewhere in the middle of this timeline.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:34.240
That's all I am.
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:38.960
Jake Messier, we're gonna put a pin in it and continue the conversation.
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.480
There is just too much to unpack in this topic.
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:48.400
Every week we find the stories worth sharing and remind you that America is still moving forward.
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.640
Thanks for listening to the progress report.