Vollständiges Transkript von What If I Married the Wrong Person?

your exact story or exact struggle but we have our conflicts, we have our pressure points, we have the things that we still are growing in being formed and being invited to do better in but still not there and it's all to say we are still in process and I want to say that not to over share but to just give hope to people that we're all in this together. 04:18.122 --> 04:34.896 [SPEAKER_01]: makes me think of like we don't we joke about it occasionally you hear like a pastor crack a joke but like I don't think any of us really like keep it in the forefront of our mind when when marriage is just the I don't know the dailyness of it that can be difficult. 04:36.057 --> 04:48.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, what the apostle Paul said about marriage like if you if you marry you haven't sinned but you will have trouble and I'm trying to spare you and I just think every marriage has trouble 04:52.273 --> 05:06.120 [SPEAKER_01]: and that trouble takes on all different shapes and sizes and for some it is deep, heartache, and pain, and betrayal, and a lot to grieve. 05:06.260 --> 05:09.402 [SPEAKER_01]: And for others it's family of origin stuff. 05:09.422 --> 05:12.144 [SPEAKER_01]: You're coming at it from completely different angles and 05:13.004 --> 05:34.493 [SPEAKER_01]: parenting makes your marriage extra hard because it's on display and it's showing up or but we all have trouble of some kind and so I think that's important for anybody listening to know like if you might hear somebody talk about like their extreme hard and you're like oh well my marriage and I'll like that like I should be fine I shouldn't 05:35.373 --> 05:43.181 [SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't feel, I shouldn't complain or I shouldn't, but I just think for whoever's listening, whatever your story is. 05:43.442 --> 05:48.227 [SPEAKER_01]: Like marriage is hard because you say on Den Marriage is a mirror. 05:48.931 --> 05:50.032 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're going to talk about that. 05:50.052 --> 05:50.833 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't want to. 05:51.453 --> 05:51.633 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 05:51.653 --> 05:52.854 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say you're already in there. 05:53.174 --> 05:54.155 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's, I mean, we're going to go there. 05:54.175 --> 05:54.716 [SPEAKER_00]: Mirages mirror. 05:54.736 --> 06:00.280 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, and it's a reflection of who we are and we get our matter or spouse about that. 06:00.400 --> 06:04.363 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe just to tie you in a little bit to just know where we're going today. 06:04.383 --> 06:05.664 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're like, what are we talking about? 06:05.704 --> 06:06.725 [SPEAKER_00]: We have, you know, what are we talking about? 06:07.025 --> 06:25.222 [SPEAKER_00]: Four practices that are going to be kind of the bulk of this and so we're going to talk about marriage We're going to talk about Specifically what are some of the things that we can actually not only pray and to and do But it almost feels silly to not mention the fact

that we do and have released a new Prayer devotional sewing agency daily prayers for your marriage to heal growing flourish 06:26.103 --> 06:30.369 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's on our website exclusively intentional parents.org. 06:30.409 --> 06:35.316 [SPEAKER_00]: Go get that and it's a resource for you to pray together with your spouse. 06:35.396 --> 06:40.022 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a quote scripture, maybe 250 were prayer, not very long. 06:40.763 --> 07:06.404 [SPEAKER_00]: and then it's an invitation for you and your spouse to move towards healing, to move towards growth, and flourishing, and that's the idea, but it would be silly for us to talk, not mention that as one of the things that we are very much trying to get the idea of prayer in people's hands, and sometimes those physical, tangible elements remind us of the spiritual things we need to do, and prayer is the thing that's going to move the needle in your marriage, more than anything that's our experience, especially. 07:06.464 --> 07:08.726 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think that's really important, but 07:10.467 --> 07:33.884 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, please, we were talking recently and realizing we don't say this enough with certain things that whether it's like merch at our events or things like the book that 100% of the proceeds from that goes back into intentional to fuel the work of intentional, including this podcast. 07:34.005 --> 07:34.765 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just think that's 07:37.627 --> 07:46.211 [SPEAKER_01]: All of it goes to us being able to continue to do the work that we're doing and to get more resources in the hand to families. 07:46.411 --> 07:49.392 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you love the podcast, that's one small way. 07:50.153 --> 07:51.713 [SPEAKER_01]: You can support what's happening. 07:51.753 --> 07:57.976 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's a great reminder that all of the every ounce goes right back into helping more families. 07:58.016 --> 08:01.418 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's that is a very important detail to mention. 08:01.438 --> 08:01.918 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you. 08:02.518 --> 08:05.019 [SPEAKER_00]: So let me just highlight the forbidden thought, the lie. 08:05.059 --> 08:05.940 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of started with it. 08:08.209 --> 08:12.573 [SPEAKER_00]: saying something we don't feel like we're supposed to say, which is, what if I married the wrong person? 08:13.513 --> 08:14.874 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a very big phrase. 08:14.975 --> 08:18.017 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to highlight, like, I know that's a big phrase. 08:18.217 --> 08:18.978 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to break it down. 08:19.018 --> 08:20.719 [SPEAKER_00]: So nobody's like, what does he mean? 08:20.739 --> 08:21.439 [SPEAKER_00]: But that did I? 08:21.520 --> 08:23.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And what does that mean? 08:23.321 --> 08:26.684 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's obviously there's a shock element to that phrase. 08:27.484 --> 08:32.228 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also naming something that I think a lot of people might have at some point in their life asked that question. 08:32.248 --> 08:32.388 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, 08:33.614 --> 08:36.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think to maybe take all the intensity out of it. 08:36.136 --> 08:48.248 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a absolutely fair question over the course of your life to think of or to ask, not in the sense of entertaining, like let me eject and get out of it. 08:48.268 --> 08:55.434 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is when people usually think about this, they quickly become maybe unhappy and then make a lot of decisions that can lead to a lot of pain. 08:55.454 --> 08:55.754 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, 08:56.475 --> 09:00.037 [SPEAKER_00]: our hope isn't to plant an idea in your head that is negative. 09:00.117 --> 09:05.880 [SPEAKER_00]: It's to address we have an array of feelings and emotions in marriage and lots of different lives come up. 09:06.541 --> 09:18.748 [SPEAKER_00]: But this one is a really tricky one because it can almost seem like a man if I would have just found this other thing, this other person, this other life, I would be happy. 09:18.888 --> 09:19.148 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 09:19.368 --> 09:31.715 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the lie that if I married someone else would be better, what if I married a different personality that was just a lot less intense, or a lot less fulfilling the blank of what your preference would be. 09:32.376 --> 09:35.097 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the thing that we have to confront. 09:36.018 --> 09:46.584 [SPEAKER_00]: But what if another question was also true, what if you stayed in the pain long enough for it to make you better and therefore actually bring the joy and the happiness within your actual marriage and your actual life that you are living? 09:47.024 --> 09:54.307 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that is this concept of like don't eject, don't run, let the thing that you're in for me. 09:54.327 --> 10:00.169 [SPEAKER_00]: So the lie is really important to name because I think there are a lot of different lies that the enemy will plant in our heads. 10:01.089 --> 10:05.391 [SPEAKER_00]: And it could be like that whole narrative of, you were young, you, I mean, we got married at 21. 10:06.651 --> 10:14.018 [SPEAKER_00]: So how many narratives like my brain wasn't fully developed and I was making adult decisions for my whole life and I'm a different person now. 10:14.058 --> 10:27.109 [SPEAKER_00]: These are phrases that not only we can have Ruminate in our heads, but that a lot of people use as fuel or true argument building for why they need to move on from their marriage or divorce or or split up or whatever the thing is. 10:27.149 --> 10:29.011 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's an important detail. 10:29.525 --> 10:29.986 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want. 10:30.466 --> 10:35.752 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have that like coming at us kind of from the two sides. 10:36.953 --> 10:41.919 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at least I remember like growing up in the church growing up the height of

purity culture. 10:42.019 --> 10:47.284 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone talked about the one I'm just looking for the one girls would make their list. 10:47.965 --> 10:56.915 [SPEAKER_01]: of everything they were looking for, which maybe girls still do, and there was this idea that there is this one person out there that God has made for you. 10:58.677 --> 11:04.163 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we see it now in culture where the phrase is, I'm just looking for my person. 11:05.710 --> 11:11.995 [SPEAKER_01]: and I just think that's an interesting thing to step back and really think about. 11:12.896 --> 11:20.902 [SPEAKER_01]: Of like, if that were true, then a lot depends on us like picking the right one, like finding that right. 11:21.243 --> 11:23.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, God, like, like, is God tricking me? 11:24.085 --> 11:25.026 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this not the right one? 11:25.066 --> 11:25.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it like, 11:26.767 --> 11:42.478 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's where that life from the enemy can get in there of like, well, I thought this was the one, but maybe that this, this wasn't the one, but I just, it's not something we, we even see in scripture outside of like, 11:43.398 --> 11:56.287 [SPEAKER_01]: Isaac and Rebecca were Isaac was like praying specifically for the right person but more than anything that God would perfectly lead him to the right person, you know. 11:58.448 --> 12:04.612 [SPEAKER_01]: But to what you're saying and kind of what this series has been about is what the desert mothers and fathers say. 12:04.632 --> 12:06.933 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember 12:09.615 --> 12:25.591 [SPEAKER_01]: We said, stay in yourself and your cell will teach you everything you need to know and that idea was the cell was like they're they're placed that they inhabited their home their place of work Because they did so much in their cell and just by staying in it and doing those things 12:26.512 --> 12:45.467 [SPEAKER_01]: that was where rich formation happened and so what we're talking about here is like that idea that we talk about a lot because it's so important and it's so anti our culture right now of acceptance of accepting the life you actually have, the spouse you actually married. 12:46.127 --> 12:49.149 [SPEAKER_01]: and asking God not how do I get out of it? 12:49.189 --> 12:50.489 [SPEAKER_01]: How do I get to a new season? 12:50.549 --> 12:51.830 [SPEAKER_01]: How does my spouse get better? 12:51.950 --> 13:00.054 [SPEAKER_01]: How does God what do you want to teach me and do in me and do in our family right now in it? 13:01.355 --> 13:01.495 [SPEAKER_01]: And 13:02.963 --> 13:06.024 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also important to give a caveat before we go any further. 13:06.905 --> 13:08.665 [SPEAKER_01]: We are not saying, stay. 13:08.685 --> 13:09.265 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say this. 13:09.666 --> 13:10.706 [SPEAKER_01]: Say, do you want to say it? 13:10.806 --> 13:11.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to say it? 13:11.346 --> 13:11.646 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you can't. 13:11.666 --> 13:15.108 [SPEAKER_00]: I just literally was like, we got to say I want to say this before we get into the bulk of this. 13:15.128 --> 13:17.269 [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, we are, and please hear us. 13:17.389 --> 13:29.994 [SPEAKER_01]: We are not saying, stay in an abusive marriage, stay in a horribly toxic one where there's infidelity happening constantly or addiction, 13:31.194 --> 13:32.355 [SPEAKER_01]: we are not saying that. 13:33.455 --> 13:35.976 [SPEAKER_01]: There are all sorts of ways to get help. 13:36.197 --> 13:50.424 [SPEAKER_01]: God can do miraculous things and sometimes the miraculous thing is a heartbreaking divorce where God radically grows you and heals you in a myriad of ways. 13:50.704 --> 13:54.406 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't always get to control the outcomes of our stories. 13:55.086 --> 14:02.550 [SPEAKER_01]: The only agency we have is how we live surrendered to God honest with God in the midst of it. 14:02.650 --> 14:16.659 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this has to be said, if you are in a marriage that is unsafe or just chronically chronic addiction, chronic infidelity. 14:17.559 --> 14:18.260 [SPEAKER_01]: you need help. 14:18.700 --> 14:25.305 [SPEAKER_01]: You need other people around other people around you who can see it more clearly to help you. 14:26.986 --> 14:28.307 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's usually to be said about that. 14:28.427 --> 14:35.432 [SPEAKER_00]: And what would be a travesty is you, we're not going to tell you where your marriage is at. 14:35.472 --> 14:41.497 [SPEAKER_00]: There's two usual types, people that eject to quickly based upon any sort of infraction and those who stay way too long. 14:42.037 --> 14:48.680 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're saying you need people in your life that are professionals that are in your community who love you know you understand your situation to spend dollars. 14:48.880 --> 14:49.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:49.520 --> 14:53.742 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's speak into your situation so that you can discern what to do. 14:54.222 --> 14:59.445 [SPEAKER_00]: Do not take a podcast and make a life changing decision based upon a conversation we're having right now. 14:59.885 --> 15:00.605 [SPEAKER_00]: That would be foolish. 15:00.725 --> 15:06.748 [SPEAKER_00]: But please do take it and run with it and know that you know, this is sensitive and also 15:07.228 --> 15:09.310 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to name very quickly. 15:09.811 --> 15:11.553 [SPEAKER_00]: There are some that are going to be listening to this. 15:11.573 --> 15:14.816 [SPEAKER_00]: We're got sent this episode and you are hurting. 15:15.076 --> 15:19.521 [SPEAKER_00]: You are in the biggest throws of pain in your marriage. 15:19.541 --> 15:20.361 [SPEAKER_00]: You're disappointed. 15:20.842 --> 15:21.543 [SPEAKER_00]: You're sad. 15:21.623 --> 15:23.284 [SPEAKER_00]: You're thinking how could this have ever been. 15:24.145 --> 15:25.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Where do we go from here? 15:25.326

--> 15:26.468 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just broken. 15:26.928 --> 15:29.731 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to give you two encouragement very briefly. 15:30.512 --> 15:30.652 [SPEAKER_00]: One, 15:32.246 --> 15:35.329 [SPEAKER_00]: The first encouragement is, God is truly with you. 15:35.389 --> 15:45.019 [SPEAKER_00]: The spirits with you, he will comfort is a daily moment by moment invitation to ask him to continue to give you energy and all of that for the right next steps. 15:45.700 --> 15:47.502 [SPEAKER_00]: But secondly, this is not the end of the story. 15:48.183 --> 15:51.406 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not the end, this is a long story. 15:51.446 --> 15:52.007 [SPEAKER_00]: God tells, 15:52.667 --> 15:55.069 [SPEAKER_00]: and shapes us with long stories. 15:55.089 --> 15:56.410 [SPEAKER_00]: They are not just one moment. 15:56.530 --> 16:04.555 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if this is your bottom of the barrel moment, I just wanna encourage you that there is hope, and there's more than just this moment. 16:04.695 --> 16:14.422 [SPEAKER_00]: So note that, I wanna start going through these four, but I do wanna name the reality of marriage and how marriage is a mirror, like we've talked about. 16:14.842 --> 16:21.487 [SPEAKER_00]: And the interesting thing about marriage is you meet your spouse and you learn your spouse, but marriage actually finally introduces you to yourself. 16:22.707 --> 16:38.615 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I mean by mirror, I mean like you're finally getting introduced to who the real you is without all those lies because you can't get away from the person's feedback that's saying, Hey, can you maybe not be that way and did you know that this is maybe how you show up to these moments and 16:39.015 --> 16:46.819 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a really important nuance as we talk about this that a lot of the times we attack the wrong person or a frustrated with the wrong person. 16:46.859 --> 16:51.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Now not entirely because obviously it's not just like your spouse is perfect and you're the wrong one and I don't mean that. 16:51.861 --> 17:05.167 [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of the times when we actually slow down and get really honest with ourselves, we recognize that what we're so frustrated about is our spouse's reaction or what they're revealing to us about us and there's honestly like a lot of shame. 17:05.187 --> 17:05.847 [SPEAKER_00]: It shuts us down. 17:05.887 --> 17:07.108 [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to actually work through. 17:08.009 --> 17:15.356 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a really important part of you understanding before you attack the wrong thing. 17:15.396 --> 17:20.481 [SPEAKER_00]: When we talk about this idea of finding or what if you married the wrong person? 17:21.261 --> 17:24.505 [SPEAKER_00]: It's first of all you taking a moment to go like, well who am I? 17:25.565 --> 17:42.517 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we just get that backwards a lot of the times we're looking for our spouse to change to make us happy and

the reality is we need to be the kinds of people that follow Jesus and become the types of people that a happy spouse would want to be with like there's there's a difference there and so I think it's a really important nuance before we get into those for it. 17:42.617 --> 17:43.438 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to mention that. 17:44.218 --> 17:44.759 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no. 17:45.759 --> 17:46.580 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good and I think 17:49.333 --> 18:00.482 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the pressure cooker of marriage and kids that really brings that mirror, it gets bigger. 18:02.684 --> 18:15.834 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I think what you said so good to like when you can, when you're not activated in the middle of a disagreement or deep frustration, like really ask like, what am I actually frustrated about? 18:17.990 --> 18:23.815 [SPEAKER_01]: For me, it's often there's like a fear behind the frustration, and it might not even be your spouse. 18:23.855 --> 18:25.256 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be your kids. 18:25.376 --> 18:37.105 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be parent trying to figure out how to parent together, which gosh, nobody talks about that in premarital counseling of, I don't know, I got, and I talked about this the other night though. 18:37.125 --> 18:41.148 [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about anything we were having in a conversation with your sister, Rebecca's in town. 18:41.168 --> 18:45.371 [SPEAKER_00]: She just had a new baby, sweet Marlowe or new niece, well for very much, so cute. 18:45.392 --> 18:45.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Five weeks old? 18:46.172 --> 19:03.612 [SPEAKER_00]: six weeks old seven weeks and a little chunk she's little she's beautiful so cute but we were talking about this you know bringing up like it would be great if these things could have been brought certain things could have been brought up in premarital counseling and then you realize like I do think that we are lacking in a robust 19:05.630 --> 19:06.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, what's the right way to say? 19:06.911 --> 19:07.891 [SPEAKER_00]: I know there's programs out there. 19:07.911 --> 19:09.652 [SPEAKER_00]: So I know there's some people listening, like there is one. 19:09.732 --> 19:11.933 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't doubt that there's good people doing good work. 19:11.993 --> 19:18.517 [SPEAKER_00]: But the idea that there's like a robust, consistent, pre-marital counseling that really does move the needle to before you step into marriage. 19:19.037 --> 19:21.579 [SPEAKER_00]: I think some try, I think different people have different situations. 19:22.279 --> 19:33.145 [SPEAKER_00]: But the thing I brought up that I keep thinking more and more is like, even if we had the best, you and I had the best, pre-marital counseling situation and had all the information and people are like, 19:33.645 --> 19:37.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, where do your wounds show up and how do you, how did your parents are doing this? 19:37.290 --> 19:37.430 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 19:37.490 --> 19:47.822 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, these things, two things, depending upon your age and experience, I don't know if my mind would have comprehended them in a way or it would have shown up as serious enough. 19:47.842 --> 19:48.763 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's this weird. 19:49.484 --> 19:59.066 [SPEAKER_00]: part of this that there's no amount of premarital counseling that is going to get you out of having to go through the reality and the exposure that marriage brings. 19:59.587 --> 20:10.329 [SPEAKER_00]: It can help you put language to it, maybe not get so mad, but you have to go on this journey, you have to face who you actually are, and marriage gives you that opportunity. 20:10.729 --> 20:12.590 [SPEAKER_00]: It gives you a lot of other wonderful opportunities too. 20:13.490 --> 20:15.332 [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to talk about before we get these four things. 20:15.372 --> 20:16.233 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about the mirror piece. 20:16.313 --> 20:24.241 [SPEAKER_00]: I think one other detail is when we start having this thought and we're just kind of sitting with that idea like what if I married the wrong person? 20:24.301 --> 20:26.963 [SPEAKER_00]: That's been your thought or like what if there's someone better out there? 20:26.983 --> 20:28.425 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's just say both of those. 20:29.025 --> 20:34.870 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe, can I add to that, maybe some people who might not be resonating to, I don't really think a lot about Jimmy or the wrong person. 20:35.510 --> 20:39.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe add to that question, why is marriage so hard? 20:39.934 --> 20:41.495 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I thought it was going to be easier. 20:41.635 --> 20:45.438 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was like, if he would change it would get easier, if she would change it would get easier. 20:45.498 --> 20:49.041 [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe throw that into the mix because that's really who we're talking about. 20:49.201 --> 20:49.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes. 20:49.961 --> 20:50.882 [SPEAKER_00]: But what can happen? 20:51.102 --> 20:52.083 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen this a lot. 20:52.123 --> 20:53.304 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know where this lands. 20:53.324 --> 20:54.084 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's actually 20:54.885 --> 21:13.988 [SPEAKER_00]: I've talked to equal men and women that I think go to the here and maybe it's an unchecked even thought that just begins to form, but we can start to form this like ideal fantasy spouse, like men if they were just like this, and maybe it's a better version of that, maybe it's not another person, but it's this fantasy version of them that doesn't exist for real. 21:14.728 --> 21:17.771 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can start to make this imaginary one. 21:18.431 --> 21:19.232 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the thing about. 21:19.252 --> 21:22.074 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say this because it's only fair to say. 21:22.555 --> 21:25.737 [SPEAKER_00]: The fantasy spouse, the imaginary spouse, always knows what to say. 21:26.117 -->

21:28.259 [SPEAKER_00]: They always say the perfect thing at the right time with the right tone. 21:28.599 --> 21:30.601 [SPEAKER_00]: They have no annoying habits. 21:32.222 --> 21:34.484 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's because they don't exist, by the way. 21:34.944 --> 21:35.625 [SPEAKER_00]: That's partly why. 21:36.205 --> 21:42.229 [SPEAKER_00]: They understand your needs because you invented them, like why do they know your needs because you invented them never had to say them. 21:42.249 --> 21:43.390 [SPEAKER_00]: They just know how to meet your needs. 21:44.111 --> 21:51.215 [SPEAKER_00]: And the fantasy gets to be edited while covenant your covenant has to live in reality. 21:51.756 --> 21:55.799 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can't put that expectation on your spouse. 21:56.479 --> 22:01.101 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not real and even if you can dream it up and think it up, it doesn't make it any more real. 22:01.201 --> 22:05.003 [SPEAKER_00]: So you didn't partner, we say this in some of our marriage content a lot. 22:05.023 --> 22:09.305 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't partner with sameness, you partnered with different and the difference is actually what you need. 22:09.425 --> 22:10.966 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also the thing that is the most challenging. 22:10.986 --> 22:20.090 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we have to work through not allowing that version, whether it's a better version of them or someone else to enter in because it's not real and it's not fair. 22:21.138 --> 22:25.362 [SPEAKER_01]: It makes me think of Pete Scudaro's stuff on expectations. 22:25.742 --> 22:37.354 [SPEAKER_01]: Because really what you're saying is having an expectation in your mind of how they should act, how they should be, which will cause frustration and conflict every time. 22:37.374 --> 22:43.840 [SPEAKER_01]: And Pete Scudaro says, expectations need to be spoken, clear, and agreed upon. 22:45.141 --> 22:48.966 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we should, I think we should probably do that. 22:49.026 --> 22:50.748 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, seriously. 22:51.028 --> 22:58.056 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to add to it repeated because you can't expect that you can say something one time. 22:58.076 --> 23:00.338 [SPEAKER_01]: This is automatic. 23:00.378 --> 23:00.619 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 23:00.779 --> 23:04.083 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be the other night for something that I was like, we didn't agree upon this. 23:05.544 --> 23:12.867 [SPEAKER_00]: This has not been repeated, and anyway, it's just, I'm not trying to explain it, trying to say, like, it's hard. 23:13.047 --> 23:16.148 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not even if you know this stuff, it's hard to live this stuff. 23:16.328 --> 23:16.528 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 23:17.148 --> 23:17.328 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:17.628 --> 23:20.889 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that we do that, I don't think I know. 23:21.029 --> 23:29.852 [SPEAKER_01]: We do that so often in marriage and in parenting of having these expectations that are not actually on the table. 23:30.032 --> 23:31.353 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not actually talked about. 23:32.193 --> 23:43.822 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's one of the reasons so many wives like gripe about their husbands, complain about their husbands, because it's coming from a place of like a frustration. 23:44.322 --> 23:51.808 [SPEAKER_01]: But oftentimes when I'm talking to women, they're bringing things asking, they're just like lamenting over what's happening. 23:51.848 --> 23:56.151 [SPEAKER_01]: And nine times out of ten when I ask, have you talked about it? 23:56.411 --> 23:57.672 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you guys able? 23:58.913 --> 24:01.456 [SPEAKER_01]: to have any sort of healthy dialogue about it. 24:02.077 --> 24:09.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the time they will have not either not talked to, they're sparse about it or they tried once and it didn't go great, they never tried again. 24:09.104 --> 24:16.653 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they're frustrated and resentful. 24:17.968 --> 24:22.949 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, so this brings up two things before we're getting right into the four points. 24:23.029 --> 24:25.170 [SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, Colossians 3. 24:25.510 --> 24:27.211 [SPEAKER_00]: Colossians 3 is still my favorite chapter. 24:27.611 --> 24:35.533 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you have a favorite chapter friends, but if you do, um, head over to social media at intentional underscore parents. 24:36.380 --> 24:39.724 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us know what your favorite Bible verse is, or of a chapter. 24:39.784 --> 24:41.246 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important to have one. 24:41.386 --> 24:44.210 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important to be like illuminating on scripture. 24:44.270 --> 24:52.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Ruminating on scripture, excuse me, but Closions 313, bear with bear with each other and forgive one another, forgive as the Lord is forgiven you. 24:53.500 --> 24:58.863 [SPEAKER_00]: What that implies especially in the idea of marriage is that your marriage is going to need forgiveness. 24:58.923 --> 25:04.186 [SPEAKER_00]: It needs an ongoing way of both healing and growing and it's going to need forgiveness. 25:04.906 --> 25:15.372 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have this idea, I know we wrote this down, but Eugene Peterson talks about, there's no doubt if you've been in Christian circles formation for any amount of time and you're listening to this. 25:15.792 --> 25:18.654 [SPEAKER_00]: You've heard this quote, and it's a very simple one, but very powerful. 25:19.354 --> 25:25.999 [SPEAKER_00]: Eugene Peterson has a whole book called A Long Obedience in the same direction, and that's that's the idea that we're obeying continually. 25:26.700 --> 25:30.743 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not specifically about marriage, which is actually one of the reasons it works. 25:31.023 --> 25:35.466 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just don't divorce, it's how do you keep turning towards each other. 25:35.526 --> 25:44.293 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you're talking about is how do we actually keep

turning towards each other in all the different moments and bumps and bruises, 25:44.954 --> 25:50.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Not like how can we have a perfect marriage but how do we continue to to bring 25:50.643 --> 25:52.464 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it didn't work well when I brought up that one time. 25:52.664 --> 25:53.365 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna do it again. 25:53.385 --> 25:53.925 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't go. 25:54.426 --> 26:13.419 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna have a long obedience in the same direction towards my spouse and this is John 151 remain in me like this is the remaining part not only in Jesus, but in your marriage is what sustains and over time again with all the caveats that we already said and a relatively regulated healthy normal. 26:14.460 --> 26:16.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever that means if that is even true marriage. 26:16.901 --> 26:31.118 [SPEAKER_00]: That you are not ejecting because it's just uncomfortable and you are continuing to to go back and to go back and a lot of people might ask why And that's also because we don't understand happiness and work on this whole project right now, and I'm very excited to 26:31.879 --> 26:58.349 [SPEAKER_00]: process it, but I'm reading a bunch of books about this concept of happiness and what I'm finding over and over and over again is that we just don't even understand what biblical happiness is and what real happiness actually feels like because we were just given these little micro bits of what happiness could be all the time and we're so unhappy primarily because we've never fully experienced what true happiness is, understood why we have it, what it is, what is happiness 27:01.387 --> 27:07.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and pertaining to marriage, like marriage is a covenant. 27:07.409 --> 27:15.772 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a picture of God's covenant relationship with us, which is a full commitment, different than a contract, contract is like there are terms. 27:15.832 --> 27:17.933 [SPEAKER_01]: If somebody breaks the terms, the contract is broken. 27:18.513 --> 27:19.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Covenant is very different. 27:19.873 --> 27:23.334 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a covenant to remain no matter what. 27:23.414 --> 27:27.676 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's what God does with us, when over and over and over again, we send against him. 27:28.796 --> 27:33.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's made a covenant with us, there is no breaking that. 27:33.158 --> 27:37.340 [SPEAKER_01]: He will remain no matter what, even when we are not remaining in him. 27:37.360 --> 27:40.282 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is what marriage is. 27:40.382 --> 27:43.143 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is what actually brings happiness. 27:43.783 --> 27:54.552 [SPEAKER_01]: Not this while you do things the way I want you to you make me feel a certain way you like And therefore I will be happy and if you don't well, then our contract is broken. 27:54.732 --> 27:58.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's not What when believers two believers get married. 27:58.796 --> 28:06.002 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a covenant promise to each other and that verse I'm bearing one another's burdens 28:07.327 --> 28:24.486 [SPEAKER_01]: is such a fascinating idea, because what that actually means when you actually dive into the roots of the word and what is actually happening in the passage, is it doesn't just mean like, well, when somebody's going through something hard, I will be there for them. 28:25.467 --> 28:28.290 [SPEAKER_01]: it does mean that, but it means way more than that. 28:28.490 --> 28:37.880 [SPEAKER_01]: It actually means like bearing with somebody, even in their sin, the verses right before it, talk about restoring believers with the spirit of gentleness back to the Lord. 28:39.302 --> 28:46.129 [SPEAKER_01]: It's bearing with somebody in their generational brokenness, in their reactivity, in their sinfulness, in 28:46.970 --> 28:52.375 [SPEAKER_01]: the shame that they feel over how they responded to you and maybe they can't even like name that shame. 28:53.155 --> 28:54.376 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually using per se. 28:54.436 --> 28:55.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Fair examples of that. 28:56.698 --> 28:58.860 [SPEAKER_01]: It's but you think about in the context of marriage. 28:59.400 --> 29:12.771 [SPEAKER_01]: If both spouses were doing that and had that framework of like my job is to bear your burdens, you bear mine, we bear the burdens that come in our life and our story and with our kids, we bear them together. 29:14.247 --> 29:21.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine, like how much happiness would be happening in the midst of a relationship like that? 29:21.954 --> 29:24.757 [SPEAKER_01]: And is it going to be perfect in like that all the time? 29:25.297 --> 29:39.651 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely not, but the biggest way for that to actually grow and for that reality to be more possible is by staying and perseverance that I will talk so much about perseverance. 29:40.071 --> 29:44.894 [SPEAKER_01]: and what perseverance actually does in our character in our whole person. 29:44.914 --> 29:45.535 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 29:46.115 --> 29:48.977 [SPEAKER_01]: And we need a lot of perseverance in our marriage. 29:49.137 --> 29:50.198 [SPEAKER_01]: We really, really do. 29:50.838 --> 29:55.621 [SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't sound, that doesn't sound glamorous. 29:55.681 --> 29:56.782 [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't sound fun. 29:57.062 --> 29:59.904 [SPEAKER_01]: That is completely anti to our culture. 29:59.924 --> 30:04.627 [SPEAKER_01]: And yet, it is true. 30:04.787 --> 30:08.029 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you look at the people who've been married for 50 years, 30:10.961 --> 30:21.591 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, maybe they can be grumpy around each other, but also, like, they just don't, there, things don't bother them in the way that they probably did when they were two. 30:21.651 --> 30:26.576 [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that you either get far better, far better, far better, far worse when you get older. 30:26.596 --> 30:32.601

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't get to choose or either that's why most older people are the most incredible light of the world. 30:32.641 --> 30:36.385 [SPEAKER_00]: People you've ever met or the, honestly, some of the artists and most challenging. 30:36.765 --> 30:40.186 [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree, remaining doesn't mean that all the things that you have get fixed. 30:40.226 --> 30:50.090 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they get to a spot where they go, oh, maybe the goal isn't always to resolve the difference, maybe it's learning how to stay connected in the midst of all that is different. 30:50.930 --> 30:55.392 [SPEAKER_01]: That actually John Gottman, who is like one of the leading researchers. 30:56.052 --> 30:57.633 [SPEAKER_01]: on marriage and I read it. 30:57.653 --> 30:59.915 [SPEAKER_00]: Which send divorce by the way, I don't know if that's true, I know. 30:59.935 --> 31:04.478 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very interesting detail, which I'm not actually, I wonder how much that's helped and that's not shade, I'm just saying, yeah. 31:04.638 --> 31:10.782 [SPEAKER_00]: We quote this guy all that a lot of people do and no one's full story is actually very helpful and I don't mean that like it's not legit. 31:10.822 --> 31:11.663 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be really clear. 31:11.723 --> 31:14.905 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, isn't it interesting that the guy that sucks about marriage? 31:15.325 --> 31:19.288 [SPEAKER_00]: There was the story, I don't know the whole thing, but anyway, I don't know the whole story. 31:19.368 --> 31:21.690 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, we got to get in the form of specificity where you're going to say it is. 31:21.710 --> 31:24.552 [SPEAKER_01]: He did a huge study and like research concluded. 31:26.053 --> 31:37.279 [SPEAKER_01]: that most of conflict in marriage, I think it was like 90% of the conflict in marriage is unsolvable, unresolvable, basically. 31:38.540 --> 31:39.680 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot more than it is. 31:39.861 --> 31:40.981 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's a lot more than it is. 31:41.001 --> 31:52.988 [SPEAKER_01]: No, what he was saying, like what he concluded was, the goal in conflict should be just to stay connected because you might not actually be able to fully work out and solve every problem. 31:54.569 --> 31:54.869 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 31:55.389 --> 31:58.810 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, truly, let's let's talk about how do we remain? 31:58.850 --> 32:05.293 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we remain to a place that leads to not only healing, but growing and flourishing? 32:05.373 --> 32:06.973 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we actually do that? 32:07.013 --> 32:14.496 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, there's we're just going to give you a few brief things, but these are things, at least in our experience that have really moved the needle. 32:14.876 --> 32:18.297 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think are ones that are practical enough for you to try. 32:18.517 --> 32:21.338 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're they can be really deep or they can be very 32:22.158 --> 32:27.242 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, brief and even shallow, but I think you have to start somewhere, so that's what we're going to do. 32:27.262 --> 32:28.043 [SPEAKER_00]: You okay to go there honey. 32:28.083 --> 32:28.203 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 32:28.703 --> 32:39.112 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so first the name the marriage you're comparing yours to Are you comparing your marriage to someone else's actual marriage or an imaginary one. 32:40.581 --> 32:42.984 [SPEAKER_00]: That's an important thing to first ask yourself. 32:43.705 --> 32:50.393 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, a follow-up question, we'll have this in the show notes, but what do I believe another marriage would give me that I'm currently longing for? 32:52.014 --> 32:58.482 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a really quick question in the sense of only a handful of words. 32:59.423 --> 33:00.525 [SPEAKER_00]: and it's a really big one. 33:01.065 --> 33:15.485 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you are struggling with this, I would say take this question with the Holy Spirit and take some time to name this, to write it out, and to just be honest, and it's okay to be honest before the Lord and go, what do I think? 33:15.586 --> 33:16.287 [SPEAKER_00]: Another marriage would give me 33:16.827 --> 33:39.815 [SPEAKER_00]: a spouse that listens to me or a spouse that's more sexually available or a spouse that is kind in their responses or a spouse that's more put together, a spouse that doesn't have ADHD, a spouse that can actually hold their stuff up, a spouse that's on time when they say they're going to be, I mean, the list can be extensive and I think there's no problem with being honest about what you think that mirror is just going to give you. 33:40.440 --> 33:46.446 [SPEAKER_01]: and even to what you said earlier, maybe it's not a different spouse, maybe it's a different version of the spouse that you have. 33:47.026 --> 33:47.927 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're not there yet. 33:48.087 --> 33:48.507 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 33:48.527 --> 33:58.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And so then accepting the fact that you could see them potentially being that person, but they're not yet or what they might not be. 33:58.176 --> 34:03.121 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is the part that is, that's the trust part, that's the, that's the 34:05.864 --> 34:21.358 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think even a question deeper if you have time and want to go there is like, why do I feel like that would make our marriage tension free or things would be better and really evaluating like is. 34:22.859 --> 34:51.745 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that a them thing or is that really actually like a me thing or a family of origin thing for me that that was like top top value in my family because that there are there are multiple points in our lives where it's really healthy to reevaluate our values not like not what actually is like spiritually really important and like biblically what we would say not not moral not like these the things that are 34:52.165 --> 34:56.250 [SPEAKER_00]:

Yeah, we know are not like on tracking and leaving your faith is what you're saying. 34:56.270 --> 35:12.047 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but but sometimes it's like the silly things that are that don't feel silly of being on time or not being messy or not like or responding always in a completely calm way so that there's always peace and that there's never 35:13.028 --> 35:36.318 [SPEAKER_01]: anything we have to work through like so much of that comes from our family of origin or our fear of judgment or our fears of what that might mean for our kids or for it like and it is so healthy to evaluate that with God because God is so interested in getting into the recesses of our hearts 35:41.341 --> 35:58.131 [SPEAKER_01]: What he wants is that remain in me that deep abiding connection with him to turn us into a person that is loving, that is patient, that is kind, that can bear with one another and that takes so much longer than we want to. 35:58.251 --> 36:06.515 [SPEAKER_01]: But asking questions like that is a way that lets God into those deeper places and makes us a more loving person. 36:06.756 --> 36:07.296 [SPEAKER_01]: It really does. 36:07.590 --> 36:17.272 [SPEAKER_00]: It really does, a funny example of this is, and then we're going to go to the second one, is our good friends, Jeff and Jordan Johnson, open spaces podcast. 36:18.313 --> 36:22.774 [SPEAKER_00]: They, they're the worst professors for passion city in Atlanta. 36:23.334 --> 36:25.354 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're out here in our town. 36:25.374 --> 36:30.235 [SPEAKER_00]: They're in Ben this week, and we're all having dinner and the kids who are all hanging out. 36:30.315 --> 36:32.896 [SPEAKER_00]: And we now have two fancy guinea pigs. 36:32.916 --> 36:34.076 [SPEAKER_00]: I do not want to talk about it. 36:34.176 --> 36:35.837 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're like, what's a fancy guinea pig? 36:37.097 --> 36:40.939 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more expensive than a normal one in the yard and they are fancy. 36:41.019 --> 36:42.040 [SPEAKER_00]: They are fancy. 36:43.521 --> 36:47.443 [SPEAKER_00]: Their bodies are too big for their legs so they can't crawl out of anything, which is honestly. 36:47.543 --> 36:48.724 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was feeling great about that. 36:48.744 --> 36:49.524 [SPEAKER_01]: They have long hair. 36:49.544 --> 36:50.825 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I digress. 36:50.845 --> 36:54.867 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not why I'm telling you this story, but I think there was a funny little moment last night. 36:54.947 --> 36:56.948 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you caught this honey, you'll remember what I say. 36:57.008 --> 36:59.329 [SPEAKER_00]: But I loved this as an example, because 37:00.930 --> 37:20.574 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we were at dinner, we were talking about like a particular bent or like a, let's just like a funny, like purchasing habit or buying things that Jeff was, he's like, yeah, buy this stuff and then it collects around the house and it drives Jordan crazy and she's like, it drives, it does drive me crazy and it's caused tension. 37:20.834 --> 37:24.054 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it absolutely hasn't then she said, and I've talked to him when we've 37:29.035 --> 37:30.515 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, so that's where we are. 37:32.576 --> 37:33.896 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he's like, thanks for having that grace. 37:33.956 --> 37:36.277 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was like, I don't think she's giving you permission. 37:36.297 --> 37:43.879 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so that, you know, and it was this, all of those things I just mentioned are true, like she's not giving you permission, but she's accepted some of it. 37:43.919 --> 37:51.241 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's just a perfect funny little example of, we're not always going to solve everything. 37:51.261 --> 37:57.283 [SPEAKER_00]: And but you also can't idolize or idealize another marriage because 37:58.783 --> 37:59.804 [SPEAKER_00]: every marriage is so unique. 37:59.844 --> 38:04.565 [SPEAKER_00]: So name the marriage you're comparing yours to second, own your side of the street. 38:06.166 --> 38:11.847 [SPEAKER_00]: This is so important and marriage is going to be revealing things in you. 38:12.247 --> 38:17.489 [SPEAKER_00]: It reveals stuff in me all the time, Elizabeth, it reveals stuff in you, what needs healing, repentance and maturity. 38:18.129 --> 38:21.210 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's three questions that will often 38:23.851 --> 38:27.995 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just, we'll just give it here, write them down again, put them in show notes, very helpful. 38:29.416 --> 38:35.842 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's three questions that I think is important for each spouse to ask before they go talk to their spouse and those three are brief. 38:35.942 --> 38:36.943 [SPEAKER_00]: But what is mine to own? 38:37.984 --> 38:39.385 [SPEAKER_00]: Each person has a part to own. 38:39.945 --> 38:40.786 [SPEAKER_00]: What is yours to do? 38:41.006 --> 38:46.952 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the time after there's something to own, there's something to do, whether that's repair, whether that's actually follow through on the thing. 38:46.972 --> 38:48.013 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something to do usually. 38:48.033 --> 38:49.494 [SPEAKER_00]: And then what is mine to release? 38:49.514 --> 38:49.874 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's that 38:51.656 --> 39:03.226 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I know that I'm not changing, I can't, it's not my job to change it, I have to release to God and how do I actually, you know, release this process to Jesus? 39:03.286 --> 39:14.836 [SPEAKER_00]: And so with this owning your side is important, ask yourself those three questions, give them to your spouse, do that work internally and individually because there's a lot more there than I think we 39:16.338 --> 39:35.839 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a visual that's helpful, we talk about this a lot of like knowing your own story, knowing your spouse's story, but the places that we tend to have the most trouble is where our two stories

intersect and it's usually the pain from our two stories intersect. 39:37.100 --> 39:43.166 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think some of the most helpful work we can do in marriage is to know where those places are. 39:43.186 --> 39:44.628 [SPEAKER_01]: And it won't just be one place, it'll be multiple places. 39:44.648 --> 39:45.469 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when my spouse does X, I feel X. 39:45.489 --> 39:56.480 [SPEAKER_01]: And understanding, you understanding why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, 39:56.620 --> 40:16.501 [SPEAKER_01]: is that maybe something that would be like a level two feels like an eight to you, you understanding that and working through that with God, with community, but also your spouse really understanding, not in the heat of the moment, but the idea of like being compassionate towards one another. 40:17.642 --> 40:25.168 [SPEAKER_01]: of really understanding like, oh, I need to be aware that when I like freak out like this, this is what is bringing up for him. 40:27.070 --> 40:43.903 [SPEAKER_01]: And that and asking those questions is also what's really is really helpful because it helps you get to some of that of like it's easy to hide behind your spouse or your kids or like and not have to actually face your own stuff, but truly like 40:46.725 --> 41:01.991 [SPEAKER_01]: the more that we can be facing our own wounds, our own sinfulness, our own, like all of that with God, aware of it, asking Him to heal it, and again such a slow process. 41:03.872 --> 41:06.233 [SPEAKER_01]: It is such a gift that we're giving our kids. 41:07.474 --> 41:27.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Not just while they're in our homes, but when they are out of our homes, when they are adults, when they have kids, when they are in midlife, instead of having life is happening, it's busy, it's easy to make things other people's fault, you've never really like had to do. 41:28.110 --> 41:42.390 [SPEAKER_01]: that work in the pressure cooker of life with family in your home all the time and a lot of people and later stages of life don't ever do that work and it's so hard for their kids. 41:42.410 --> 41:44.513 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how many of you listening right now are like 41:45.554 --> 42:01.452 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't even have the types of conversations with my parents that I wish that I could because they have no framework for generational sin or no framework that they didn't hit it out of the park with their completely out without their raise desor. 42:02.353 --> 42:06.254 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just to give to your marriage, to be asking those sorts of questions. 42:06.794 --> 42:18.458 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a gift to your future kids, or the future stages of your kids, because really that is operating from a place of humility, which the Bible also has a lot to say about. 42:20.932 --> 42:23.273 [SPEAKER_01]: And he gives grace to those who are humble. 42:23.613 --> 42:26.555 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I think those are very important. 42:26.915 --> 42:31.517 [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't agree more to you said, each person has to humble themselves. 42:32.317 --> 42:34.659 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can't control another person's formation. 42:34.879 --> 42:36.759 [SPEAKER_00]: You have this is like the releasing part. 42:36.840 --> 42:40.781 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you have to pray for them to even have that heart. 42:41.182 --> 42:45.304 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just as a reminder, own your side of the street. 42:46.204 --> 42:48.105 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very important part of this number three. 42:48.125 --> 42:49.866 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think this moves the needle. 42:51.109 --> 42:52.777 [SPEAKER_00]: practice turning towards one another. 42:54.615 --> 42:57.796 [SPEAKER_00]: healing and marriage doesn't happen by winning arguments. 42:57.876 --> 42:58.836 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the wrong thing. 42:58.876 --> 43:01.437 [SPEAKER_00]: It comes by fighting for each other and not against each other. 43:01.537 --> 43:02.697 [SPEAKER_00]: So what does that mean? 43:02.737 --> 43:08.979 [SPEAKER_00]: I think when you want to withdraw, and I know this happens with us in little ways. 43:09.139 --> 43:13.280 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's really hard, like because it's hard one to live this out. 43:13.340 --> 43:17.201 [SPEAKER_00]: It's too hard to talk about it in spaces where you know people will listen to it. 43:18.161 --> 43:23.383 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think just to make a very brief, whether it's a list or idea, 43:24.303 --> 43:28.806 [SPEAKER_00]: When you want to withdraw, instead make one movement towards it, and it can be simple. 43:28.866 --> 43:29.506 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the list. 43:29.686 --> 43:41.333 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be a touch, it could be holding hands, it could be a question, it could be a apology, it could be prayer, it could be sex, it can be a walk, it can be a conversation, it could be curiosity. 43:42.014 --> 43:46.677 [SPEAKER_00]: What is the movement that you need to move towards your spouse instead of moving away? 43:46.777 --> 43:46.997 [SPEAKER_00]: Because 43:47.557 --> 43:57.326 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously moving away, there's just times when you're overloaded, and that is man with draws, just like, I don't have space, and there's permission to have time out moments we need to have them. 43:58.047 --> 44:02.651 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think there's a lot of moments where what can you do in that moment? 44:02.971 --> 44:03.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you can't talk. 44:04.112 --> 44:04.372 [SPEAKER_00]: That's okay. 44:04.613 --> 44:05.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Just put a hand on a hand. 44:05.794 --> 44:11.879 [SPEAKER_00]:

There's these little things that remind these little rituals that remind our spouse. 44:12.860 --> 44:13.881 [SPEAKER_00]: that we are there for them. 44:14.041 --> 44:14.861 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to say a lot. 44:14.881 --> 44:33.070 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing about actually spouses and marriage as hard as you know a lot of what your spouse is saying without any words and they communicate a lot without words and so that can be very both interesting and challenging but how can you practice turning towards one another in the small micro ways? 44:33.450 --> 44:37.252 [SPEAKER_00]: They do add up, they do add up, any thoughts on that before we go to our last one? 44:42.342 --> 44:58.777 [SPEAKER_01]: remember that we like each other like and reminding each other like especially when life is hard and tensioned to hurt like hey I do really like you and sometimes we have to say that out loud to remember that that's true you know 45:01.479 --> 45:08.483 [SPEAKER_01]: We say a lot around intentional and we've said a lot on the podcast like that your children would become who you tell them you see them becoming. 45:09.083 --> 45:12.045 [SPEAKER_01]: Also think your spouse will become who you tell them you see them becoming. 45:13.066 --> 45:22.012 [SPEAKER_01]: And so like that moving towards might look like asking God, we just show me one thing that is really true and really good about my spouse and we give you the courage just to say it. 45:23.012 --> 45:27.293 [SPEAKER_01]: not only does that soften your spouse's heart and give a deposit. 45:27.373 --> 45:37.075 [SPEAKER_01]: So to speak, it also softens your heart to because at least my personality bent when I'm frustrated, I can easily be like everything is bad. 45:37.255 --> 45:42.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is wrong with life and relationships and I didn't know that's about you tell me. 45:43.077 --> 45:45.937 [SPEAKER_00]: May or may not be an anywhere I'm one who goes to foreign stress. 45:45.977 --> 45:46.978 [SPEAKER_00]: How is a show up in you? 45:48.539 --> 45:49.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I know. 45:49.120 --> 45:49.660 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm familiar. 45:49.740 --> 45:50.441 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 45:50.721 --> 46:11.780 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, but like saying that out loud can be incredibly helpful and for those of you who are wired to complete opposite of me, where everything is positive and happy all the time, your practice might be like being able to sit with God honestly about things that are hard so that you can actually begin to work through them and face them. 46:13.781 --> 46:17.063 [SPEAKER_01]: So because it all comes out in some way. 46:17.243 --> 46:24.607 [SPEAKER_01]: Some is more direct, some is more indirect, but when we don't face resentment, it is really difficult to move towards. 46:24.967 --> 46:25.228 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 46:25.508 --> 46:28.910 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think even moving towards, like I said, it could look like an apology for a pair. 46:28.930 --> 46:29.670

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a big one. 46:29.850 --> 46:35.734 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's that as quick as you can get back to restoring what was broken is important. 46:35.914 --> 46:40.576 [SPEAKER_01]: And most of the time, it's an act of the will and then the heart will follow. 46:42.017 --> 46:43.137 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we don't like that. 46:43.177 --> 46:45.618 [SPEAKER_01]: We like it to be everything led by the heart. 46:45.758 --> 46:46.398 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels good. 46:46.438 --> 46:47.198 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll say it. 46:47.918 --> 46:51.639 [SPEAKER_01]: But especially repair is an act and forgiveness. 46:52.479 --> 46:58.661 [SPEAKER_01]: Really is an act of the will before it is a full heart response and transformation. 46:58.701 --> 47:01.921 [SPEAKER_01]: We decide I'm going to be a forgiving person. 47:02.581 --> 47:06.202 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to forgive even though it's difficult right now. 47:11.308 --> 47:36.130 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and before we go to the last one, it is, I think, highly important to name, that it is very easy for us to have friends or other people, or, you know, as we're being discipled by the internet constantly, to pick up little narratives of what kind of marriage maybe you prefer, what you hope your marriage to be like, and that is so destructive, it goes back to the fantasy spouse idea. 47:36.810 --> 47:42.093 [SPEAKER_00]: because even what we're talking about, what might work for our marriage might not work for yours. 47:42.213 --> 47:50.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the topic of, of even like scheduling sex and saying, hey, these are the nights of the week, so these are the days that we're gonna be intimate together. 47:50.118 --> 47:52.919 [SPEAKER_00]: For some, that is the most life-giving practice. 47:53.360 --> 48:02.225 [SPEAKER_00]: For others, they think, how could you, it feels vis-rely wrong for the, like, how could you plan something so beautiful and emotional? 48:03.045 --> 48:09.971 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels robotic and formulaic and then you realize it doesn't, you don't have to hear our words. 48:10.371 --> 48:13.554 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the point is that you have to look at who or who is your spouse. 48:13.574 --> 48:14.534 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you guys need? 48:14.555 --> 48:19.859 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need if scheduling sex feels like a burden and death don't do it, obviously. 48:20.559 --> 48:28.346 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the point is for you to figure out what do you each other need and then work towards a better version of that we all need that. 48:28.466 --> 48:37.434 [SPEAKER_00]: So lastly, and I think this is, um, this is a big one, but it's very simple three words renew your yes. 48:39.055 --> 48:45.861 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really important to tell each other that you still choose them. 48:48.477 --> 48:54.714 [SPEAKER_00]: I tell you this a lot actually right now, I've told you this a lot, but even if I had to pick again, I still would choose you. 48:55.456 --> 48:55.857

[SPEAKER_00]: I still would. 48:58.012 --> 49:05.675 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish you maybe would have, you know, been a little less intense in parts, but, you know, we all have our things we have growing in it because you're not intense at all. 49:05.775 --> 49:10.037 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not intense, you know, pretty chill, but not pretending everything's easy. 49:10.677 --> 49:19.180 [SPEAKER_00]: And when we think about it, when we were 21, this is in our notes, but we were 21, the funniest thing. 49:20.624 --> 49:26.009 [SPEAKER_00]: was that we were making our vows with so much joy and hope. 49:26.069 --> 49:28.151 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I remember being a filter. 49:28.271 --> 49:30.012 [SPEAKER_00]: And so many people experience this. 49:30.873 --> 49:34.056 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing can go wrong and sickness in and health, but that won't happen. 49:35.537 --> 49:36.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Life is going to be pretty great. 49:36.598 --> 49:41.903 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you go, you know, at least American culture, you're then on a honeymoon of some sort, maybe if that works out. 49:42.803 --> 49:45.326 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're whisked away to a honeymoon. 49:45.966 --> 49:57.230 [SPEAKER_00]: in this fictitious reality where things are paid for in this paradise and we're just enjoying each other in every way that you can and you're like, this is almost heaven. 49:57.530 --> 50:11.035 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's not, but it's close and you realize that is not our life, that's not the life we live, that's not how it goes and February we've been married 20 years and it's like, man, I think it's important that we made the first yes with hope and we did. 50:12.363 --> 50:14.044 [SPEAKER_00]: But our later, yes, is made with knowledge. 50:14.625 --> 50:25.452 [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I say that, I'm saying with all the knowledge that I have now of who I actually am, who you actually are and becoming and we're both changing. 50:25.472 --> 50:40.063 [SPEAKER_00]: We've changed a lot since we got married with four kids, with special needs, with so many health challenges, with so many back surgeries this year, with so many functional, practical, emotional, physical disabilities. 50:41.877 --> 50:43.037 [SPEAKER_00]: I still think I would choose you. 50:43.478 --> 50:45.338 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's an important thing to say. 50:45.938 --> 50:53.581 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's an important thing to name because it's so easy to forget that you made that choice. 50:54.882 --> 51:00.243 [SPEAKER_00]: And when we take long enough to sit in it, I think we can remember that it wasn't a bad one. 51:01.004 --> 51:04.105 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is our story, but I'm not forcing this on anyone listening. 51:04.145 --> 51:05.986 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying, that's us. 51:06.086 --> 51:09.147 [SPEAKER_00]: And loving someone costs you a lot, costs you your most of your life. 51:11.510 --> 51:12.471 [SPEAKER_01]: I still choose you too. 51:13.572 --> 51:14.072 [SPEAKER_01]: I really do.

51:15.513 --> 51:18.835 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody else really, I would rather go through all this. 51:20.337 --> 51:21.277 [SPEAKER_00]: All this hard with. 51:22.478 --> 51:23.059 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think. 51:23.079 --> 51:26.581 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really, still I said that, I really. 51:26.621 --> 51:32.305 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, it's like, you really, I'm trying to get emotional. 51:32.606 --> 51:33.947 [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay, I get emotional, it's real. 51:34.407 --> 51:35.047 [SPEAKER_00]: Emotions are real. 51:35.508 --> 51:38.650 [SPEAKER_01]: You really see the true character of people 51:41.607 --> 51:43.310 [SPEAKER_01]: life is hard and not easy. 51:43.591 --> 51:43.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 51:44.232 --> 51:46.295 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a lot of experience with that. 51:47.036 --> 51:47.177 [SPEAKER_01]: And 51:49.195 --> 52:02.278 [SPEAKER_01]: When I think about who you were when we first got married and who you have become, who you were when we first got married, couldn't have, no, couldn't have done the level of hard. 52:02.778 --> 52:09.960 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, that's good, but I've watched firsthand, you choosing to stay when your personality 52:19.583 --> 52:28.735 [SPEAKER_01]: people like you, and maybe you're wiring, who wouldn't have stayed, and I watch what has happened because you have stayed in the hard. 52:31.453 --> 52:34.375 [SPEAKER_01]: and it is massively shaped to you've become. 52:35.476 --> 52:40.259 [SPEAKER_01]: And does that mean that it's all been sunshine and roses when it comes to our marriage? 52:40.339 --> 52:43.902 [SPEAKER_01]: No, our marriage has had to endure a lot. 52:44.482 --> 52:50.346 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like those of you listening, like we said at the beginning, every marriage has to endure a lot. 52:50.646 --> 52:52.768 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot, trouble of some kind. 52:55.595 --> 53:09.607 [SPEAKER_01]: But I find myself really grateful even in heart season that I'm married to somebody who is willing to grow and change and I think that if you have a spouse that there's some shred of desire for God. 53:11.066 --> 53:13.407 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's God who does the growing in the changing. 53:13.467 --> 53:20.131 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not us deciding, well, I'm gonna be a growth mindset person and therefore in five years, I'm gonna be the best spouse. 53:20.371 --> 53:29.357 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's saying God, I want to become who you've made me to be and I want to let you form me through. 53:30.878 --> 53:35.583 [SPEAKER_01]: through the hard parts of life because we do not form by form by ease. 53:35.643 --> 53:36.464 [SPEAKER_01]: We really don't. 53:38.166 --> 53:47.616 [SPEAKER_01]: We form by truly being a disciple of Jesus as being somebody who is totally desperate and dependent. 53:47.896 --> 53:50.159 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are the first words of Jesus in the sermon on the mountain. 53:52.841 --> 53:58.344 [SPEAKER_01]: That is all about what the, what the be attitudes are about is really places of desperation. 53:58.444 --> 54:00.946 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the place of the place of flourishing. 54:01.846 --> 54:13.392 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have lots of moments and opportunities in all of our marriages, moments of desperation to be like, God, I need you because I can't control this person, although I wish I could. 54:13.452 --> 54:16.854 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't always control what's coming out of my mouth, although I wish I could 54:23.331 --> 54:27.221 [SPEAKER_01]: where we experience the God the most in the places where we're willing to be the most honest. 54:27.963 --> 54:28.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 54:29.086 --> 54:32.375 [SPEAKER_01]: You might be in a hard situation with your spouse and maybe it's not. 54:33.527 --> 55:02.477 [SPEAKER_01]: a time right now where you and your spouse can come honestly, but you can come honestly to God at any time on behalf of you and on behalf of your spouse and I think that's you know the little sewing hidden seed like that's what that book is for is just to help get you to bring your marriage to God and really bring the hard parts of your marriage. 55:03.317 --> 55:03.677 [SPEAKER_01]: to God. 55:04.738 --> 55:05.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 55:05.999 --> 55:09.521 [SPEAKER_00]: I think what if the question is and what if I marry the wrong spouse? 55:09.641 --> 55:20.088 [SPEAKER_00]: What if a better question, as I'm even thinking about it, is what if you stay long enough to let the spouse that you married actually help you become the person God is called you to be? 55:20.108 --> 55:22.809 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you married the wrong spouse friends. 55:23.070 --> 55:23.910 [SPEAKER_00]: I really don't think you did. 55:24.891 --> 55:25.871 [SPEAKER_00]: You loved that person. 55:26.031 --> 55:27.112 [SPEAKER_00]: You spent a lot of time. 55:27.132 --> 55:29.774 [SPEAKER_00]: You remember the amounts of years that you prayed for that person. 55:30.554 --> 55:39.744 [SPEAKER_00]: The agony that some of you, you know, this is not everyone's story, but the agony of This is forever the commitment like all of this that went into this decision. 55:39.984 --> 55:50.014 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you made the wrong one But I also don't think if you would have picked someone else that it would have been The right one versus I think that that whole concept and idea is a sham. 55:50.034 --> 55:50.675 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not real 55:52.198 --> 56:00.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Your marriage no matter who it is to will have an array of difficulties and your invitation for all of us is, do you let that form you? 56:02.393 --> 56:04.335 [SPEAKER_00]: or do you eject and blame them and leave? 56:04.475 --> 56:16.026 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you see people that have one, two, three, four marriages, you start to realize the problem isn't that, you know, the problem is that they just eject instead of dealing with it. 56:16.166 --> 56:18.028 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and that creates chaos. 56:18.168 --> 56:21.992 [SPEAKER_00]: The amount of chaos of people that that that that that can happen to, it's just immense. 56:22.612 --> 56:23.613 [SPEAKER_00]: Some people can't avoid that. 56:23.633 --> 56:28.137 [SPEAKER_00]: I can understand in everyone's stories different, but when you can, we encourage you to do that. 56:28.157 --> 56:32.901 [SPEAKER_00]: So as we just even wrap this time, take these questions. 56:33.641 --> 56:37.925 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're in the space where you and your spouse can talk about them, talk about them, write them down, go through it. 56:38.145 --> 56:45.892 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you know someone that's hurting, if I can just say this, if you are hearing this, you're like, honestly, I'm loving this, this is helpful for me, but I have a friend that's hurting. 56:46.892 --> 56:47.773 [SPEAKER_00]: But you send this to them. 56:47.833 --> 56:50.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Just give the send them like you don't have to have this conversation with them. 56:51.114 --> 57:00.598 [SPEAKER_00]: We can we can and give them this conversation has just to hope that there's that's not over and that there's a lot that God can do in the midst of broken it so. 57:01.658 --> 57:02.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for following along. 57:02.779 --> 57:04.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for all that you do remember. 57:04.740 --> 57:13.906 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out intentional parents.org for all things that are happening, whether that's events that we'd love to say how do you add or connect with you on kind of a bunch of different resources and things happen in this year. 57:13.926 --> 57:15.607 [SPEAKER_00]: But come back next week. 57:16.067 --> 57:17.008 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll have another conversation.