TRANSKRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:00.701 --> 00:00:06.232
Last week on the podcast we talked about what even is MTSS.
00:00:06.232 --> 00:00:20.134
So this week I wanted to touch on what the purpose of MTSS is, and I know for a lot of people educators out there you're saying, jessica, duh, this is pretty obvious, right?
00:00:20.134 --> 00:00:29.734
But honestly, if you really think about it, is there more purpose to MTSS than just to catch kids up?
00:00:29.734 --> 00:00:32.347
That's what we're going to talk about today.
00:00:32.347 --> 00:00:43.530
Hi, I'm Jessica Curtis of Teaching Struggling Learners.
00:00:43.530 --> 00:00:46.189
I'm a boy mom and a veteran teacher.
00:00:46.189 --> 00:00:56.259
You're listening to the Reaching Struggling Learners podcast, where we talk all about helping students succeed academically, socially and behaviorally.
00:00:56.259 --> 00:01:08.588
Thank you so much for tuning in To my educator friends out there.
00:01:08.588 --> 00:01:14.993
Whether you're a teacher or an administrator, I want you to really think for a minute and really process.
00:01:14.993 --> 00:01:18.396
Yes, we say we give a lot of what's the term?
00:01:18.396 --> 00:01:32.334
Lip service, I guess, to saying, yeah, mtss is there to bridge the gaps, to bring the kids up to speed, to get them on grade level, to get the kids more successful, catch them up.
00:01:32.334 --> 00:01:49.227
But at the end of the day, underneath it all, a lot of us sit in those MTSS meetings and I have had those meetings where it's kind of slipped out meetings and I have had those meetings where it's kind of slipped out on in the back of our mind, maybe subconsciously, sometimes consciously.
00:01:49.227 --> 00:02:00.028
We kind of have to admit to ourselves that for a lot of schools, a lot of administrators, a lot of teachers, mtss isn't about catching kids up.
00:02:00.028 --> 00:02:05.676
It's about identifying the kids that should be in special education.
00:02:05.676 --> 00:02:30.388
Let's be honest, I have sat in meetings with fantastic, amazing teachers who were doing amazing things with RTI and MTSS in their classrooms Don't get me wrong Really, really good teachers and talking about, you know, the students that they were working with and all the progress that they were making.
00:02:30.388 --> 00:02:47.481
Many times over the years those wonderful, amazing teachers talked about, very quickly, about a child that, yeah, the kid's, yeah, kid's a little bit low, we're working on it, but that child doesn't need MTSS.
00:02:47.481 --> 00:02:51.491
That kid doesn't, she doesn't think that that child needs special education.
00:02:51.491 --> 00:02:54.604
And every single time I went whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:02:54.604 --> 00:02:56.569
Stop, hold up.
00:02:56.569 --> 00:02:58.441
That's not what this is for.
00:02:58.920 --> 00:03:01.944
It honestly shouldn't be a surprise.
00:03:01.944 --> 00:03:12.544
It shouldn't be a huge shocker when we sit down with our data for
Load full transcript
MTSS and the kids are making big improvements.
00:03:12.544 --> 00:03:16.712
That should be honestly run of the mill.
00:03:16.712 --> 00:03:19.162
That's what we should be expecting.
00:03:19.162 --> 00:03:43.893
We should be expecting that the kids are going to make improvements, because we have chosen some really great interventions and progress monitoring and we're hitting those gaps that the kids have so that they can make progress and they can catch up, so that they don't need special education services.
00:03:44.439 --> 00:04:11.385
And those students that are kind of on the back burner because the teachers are thinking and again, wonderful, amazing teachers but the focus has been given to them subconsciously, unconsciously, subliminally, whatever it is, the thought process has been given that MTSS is just the process that we go through for the kids that need special education to get them the help they need.
00:04:11.385 --> 00:04:15.280
No, no, special education is not the goal.
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:21.511
The goal is getting the kids on grade level Now.
00:04:21.511 --> 00:04:28.500
If they need special education, okay, on grade level Now.
00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:29.242
If they need special education, okay.
00:04:29.242 --> 00:04:59.127
But we should be doing everything within our power, providing the interventions that the kids need with the intensity that they need and focusing on the skill gaps that those students have so that they don't need special education, so that they don't have to be taken out of the general education classroom, so that they can get on grade level and they can make progress and be independent students without the additional services, accommodations, that are under the special education umbrella.
00:04:59.127 --> 00:05:16.894
So yeah, the fact is, the purpose of MTSS is to help kids fill in the gaps so that they're successful and that those gaps don't get so wide that the only recourse is special education.
00:05:16.894 --> 00:05:21.442
Mtss is supposed to be.
00:05:21.442 --> 00:05:24.910
That's why we have we call them early warning systems.
00:05:24.910 --> 00:05:47.252
Right, that are the triggers that will say, hey, uh-oh, this kiddo's starting to slip, let's get them into a tier two program and get them caught up so that this gets fixed, so that they don't need tier three or down the line special education, something that also kind of gets backburnered.
00:05:47.932 --> 00:05:51.865
You know my take that math is backburnered.
00:05:51.865 --> 00:05:58.800
Let's face it, most schools focus on reading and math kind of takes to backburner.
00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:13.952
I know that in one school that I worked with we had something like 200 kids getting receiving MTSS services and something like six of those kids had math and that just doesn't make sense.
00:06:13.952 --> 00:06:27.321
You know, you know that there were way more kids in that school that needed math support, but the focus for many years has always been reading and we've talked about that in previous episodes.
00:06:27.321 --> 00:06:31.110
I will not beat that down into the dirt anymore.
00:06:31.110 --> 00:06:35.380
But math is definitely something that gets backburnered.
00:06:35.380 --> 00:06:36.963
You know, writing does.
00:06:36.963 --> 00:07:04.307
I think that over the years I've seen one, maybe two that I can think of students and I've worked with entire districts for MTSS, entire middle schools, entire multiple elementary schools in a different district, and it is, writing is just not something, whether it's handwriting or actually composition writing it's not focused on, and that's unfortunate.
00:07:05.168 --> 00:07:24.129
But the other thing that is kind of backburnered but is actually a purpose of mtss is to provide supports for behaviors and let's be honest, in this day and age we're looking at a certain tiktok trend that's going around right now.
00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:58.240
We have some behaviors that need to be addressed, some really, really destructive, aggressive behaviors that need to be addressed, and MTSS that process, the tiers of support is a wonderful, it is a great framework to use, to get in place, to prevent the huge disruption for students and peers in the classrooms, no matter what the grade age, whatever.
00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:17.624
Mtss is, I truly believe, a fantastic framework to use when dealing with behaviors, whether it's disruptive behaviors or, quite frankly, if you're talking about a child with a lot of absences, we don't really think of that as a behavior.
00:08:17.624 --> 00:08:30.190
But depending on what's going on, it could very much be a behavior If the child is avoiding school due to anxiety or due to stress at home or whatever it is.
00:08:30.190 --> 00:08:40.580
There's a lot that can be done for high truancy rates when you start thinking of that in the behavior MTSS framework.
00:08:40.580 --> 00:08:52.793
But I will say, with all of that, kindergarten, my kindergarten teachers are just shaking their heads in absolute wonder at all of it.
00:08:53.794 --> 00:08:55.958
Kindergarten is a little different.
00:08:55.958 --> 00:09:09.092
I kind of feel like with kindergarten, especially the first few weeks when we start figuring out what's going on in kindergarten, you know, you have, you have.
00:09:09.092 --> 00:09:10.554
They're the babies.
00:09:10.554 --> 00:09:16.788
The kindergartners are the babies Every year and you get at least one.
00:09:16.788 --> 00:09:30.538
You get one kiddo who just makes every kindergarten teacher either want to quit or really glad that that student isn't in her classroom.
00:09:30.538 --> 00:09:31.339
Don't get me wrong.
00:09:31.339 --> 00:09:34.528
We love all of our babies, that's absolutely correct.
00:09:34.528 --> 00:09:39.586
But there is one that is going to give their teacher Forest Whitaker Eye every year.
00:09:39.586 --> 00:09:46.649
It's just going to happen and every single administrator
in the building is going to have Forest Whitaker Eye for at least a month.
00:09:46.649 --> 00:09:56.288
A lot of times those students calm down and we get them to learn how to control their behaviors, to control themselves, their emotions, all of the above.
00:09:56.288 --> 00:10:24.855
But they are a prime example of how quickly and amazing MTSS can make a huge difference if we get the right interventions in place in a timely manner right interventions in place in a timely manner, again later years you can see the behavior starting to get worse and you can really prevent big disruptions.
00:10:25.697 --> 00:10:35.895
Kindergarten is the one year that I kind of feel like you just got to be ready to jump in with everything Because, again, you don't know what you're getting.
00:10:35.895 --> 00:10:38.940
With the kindergartners you have absolutely no idea.
00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:44.467
Every other year after that the child has some history.
00:10:44.467 --> 00:10:53.875
You know a little bit about likes, dislikes, other things that are going to set the kiddo off, and you can work with that student a little bit easier.
00:10:53.875 --> 00:11:21.460
But with those kindergarten babies, when they a lot of them, a lot of them, the first time they get off that bus the first day of kindergarten, that's the first time they've been in a classroom, that's the first time that they will be asked to ask to go to the restroom or stand in a line or sit for any length of time, to go to the restroom or stand in a line or sit for any length of time, and you really don't know what you're getting until the second or third week of school.
00:11:21.460 --> 00:11:26.350
Honestly, uh, and again, I feel like with kindergarten, with those kinds of things.
00:11:26.350 --> 00:11:39.347
You just gotta have your whole toolbox ready and don't wait toolbox ready and don't wait to start interventions.
00:11:39.347 --> 00:11:49.586
If you see something going on and you you see that that child is starting or in the middle of having having an episode, you got to just jump in and you got to deal with it and you have to start working with the, with the child, and all that everywhere else.
00:11:49.586 --> 00:11:55.717
Yes, the framework works a whole lot more appropriately, I should say.
00:11:55.717 --> 00:12:04.707
I guess at the kindergarten level, you just gotta kind of speed up because, oh, it can go from zero to 60 in negative three seconds.
00:12:04.707 --> 00:12:06.450
It is something else.
00:12:07.571 --> 00:12:15.719
Now the final thing, final, final purpose, I guess for MTSS that is rarely.
00:12:15.719 --> 00:12:22.065
Possibly I don't know that I've ever had a school-based discussion.
00:12:22.065 --> 00:12:31.868
I've had these discussions at the district level and with administrators, on more of a theoretical basis, on more of a theoretical basis.
00:12:31.868 --> 00:12:53.793
But the fact is that MTSS, as it was designed and as a framework that is used appropriately,
can be and should be an immense support for teachers.
00:12:53.793 --> 00:13:20.485
At its root, mtss is meant to be a way for teachers to openly come forward with challenges that they're having whether it's in their classroom, with the academics or maybe the behaviors and learn new ways or better ways to deal with it, learn new strategies, learn the tricks of the trade right All those things that it took us years and years the more experienced teachers.
00:13:20.485 --> 00:13:27.748
It takes you a while you got to learn these things and we learn them through blood, sweat and a whole lot of tears.
00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:42.736
Mtss is the perfect place, if we set it up right, to support each other and share our tricks and share and say, oh, you're having a really hard time teaching these kids about fractions.
00:13:42.736 --> 00:13:44.508
Let me tell you I love fractions.
00:13:44.508 --> 00:13:46.493
This is how I introduce fractions.
00:13:46.493 --> 00:13:52.835
I noticed that you have like three or four kids here who are really struggling with multiplication.
00:13:52.835 --> 00:14:03.587
Here's how I introduced multiplication last year.
00:14:03.607 --> 00:14:09.278
There's ways to share and really build the teacher community, because the fact is, teaching is lonely and we used to joke about it.
00:14:09.278 --> 00:14:16.809
We used to say, yeah, you nod your head at your administrator and then you shut your door and you teach the way you feel like you should teach.
00:14:16.809 --> 00:14:20.878
But that's not working.
00:14:20.878 --> 00:14:23.706
It's not.
00:14:23.706 --> 00:14:27.169
Our schools and our students are failing.
00:14:28.192 --> 00:14:38.924
And as much as I want to say that and I do say teachers are amazing, but we can't do it alone.
00:14:38.924 --> 00:14:56.214
We've been trying to do it alone and we have leaned on things like TPT and Khan Academy and there's a lot of different resources out there that we have been leaning maybe too heavily on, and we've been leaning maybe too heavily on and we've been trying to go it alone.
00:14:56.214 --> 00:14:58.051
We shouldn't have to.
00:14:58.051 --> 00:15:16.317
Teachers should not have to go it alone, and if we want to share the burden and have teaching be enjoyable again and have fewer TikTok challenges that we're concerned about, we have to start working together a whole lot more.
00:15:16.317 --> 00:15:32.052
And MTSS, that framework, is the perfect way for teachers to start leaning on and learning from each other so that we can benefit the kids and we can improve our own craft.
00:15:32.052 --> 00:15:36.469
We know that the first year is horrible.
00:15:36.469 --> 00:15:39.956
The first year is horrible and the second year is not a whole lot better.
00:15:39.956 --> 00:15:46.957
If you make it in, your third year is a little bit better, but you still just oh, it's just rough.
00:15:46.957 --> 00:15:59.375
And by the time, if you make it to the fifth year and let's be honest, there's a lot of teachers, most of them, aren't making it to the fifth year at this point it's so hard.
00:15:59.375 --> 00:16:13.994
We could really improve all of our lives as teachers if we could come together through and again, I think the MTSS framework is the perfect environment to do it in.
00:16:13.994 --> 00:16:26.149
We can come together and share resources, share knowledge, share understanding and get these kids and ourselves back on a track that is more sustainable.
00:16:26.548 --> 00:16:35.219
The problem with MTSS is it has been used as a way to kind of scapegoat teachers Again.
00:16:35.219 --> 00:16:35.979
Another way.
00:16:35.979 --> 00:16:46.298
I have seen, unfortunately, some MTSS systems used as a way to judge, and not in a good way.
00:16:46.298 --> 00:16:58.860
Teachers and certain administrators have been known to sit there and go oh well, you know, jessica, that, jessica, she brought so many kids to MTSS this year.
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:00.009
Did you notice that?
00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:01.047
You notice?
00:17:01.047 --> 00:17:06.653
None of her kids can read, none of her kids know phonics and you know what is she doing in there.
00:17:06.653 --> 00:17:11.375
That's not what MTSS is for.
00:17:11.375 --> 00:17:14.333
That is abusive, quite frankly.
00:17:14.333 --> 00:17:20.347
The reality is we have to take the ego out of MTSS.
00:17:20.347 --> 00:17:24.894
It requires a shift in.
00:17:25.375 --> 00:17:28.140
First of all, mtss should be a judgment-free zone.
00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:31.573
It should never be a place of judgment.
00:17:31.573 --> 00:17:33.638
It should never be a place of judgment.
00:17:33.638 --> 00:17:35.345
It should never be a place of what are you even doing?
00:17:35.345 --> 00:17:36.929
No sarcasm.
00:17:36.929 --> 00:17:39.575
It should only be positive vibes only.
00:17:39.575 --> 00:18:09.615
However you want to say it, it should absolutely 100 be a judgment-free zone and when you do it that way when teachers can come in and know that, no matter what is going on, no matter how tough a situation is, they're not going to be judged, they're not going to be thought of as in a negative light in any way, shape or form, but they're going to come and they're going to learn new tips, new tricks, new strategies.
00:18:11.625 --> 00:18:18.386
Several times I have looked at a teacher and said oh oh, sweetie, here, here's this better way to collect your data.
00:18:18.386 --> 00:18:20.151
You are doing too much.
00:18:20.151 --> 00:18:20.952
Do this.
00:18:20.952 --> 00:18:24.746
This is so much simpler, it's going to save you so much time.
00:18:26.248 --> 00:19:26.666
That's what we need to be doing in MTSS judgment-free zone, and when you do it that way, when we actually use the MTSS framework as it was meant to be and how I would like to see it done, we can hugely improve not just our students' performance, but we can improve school culture and teacher satisfaction in their jobs, which, let's be honest, right now we have to do and I guess right now I'm really speaking to the administrators we have to do everything within our power to keep the teachers that we have and help them to improve their craft, not only because we want to see the students improve, but because we want to see them have higher job satisfaction rates, because that's part of what drives teacher retention.
00:19:27.568 --> 00:19:43.506
We also want to help them with behavior and we want to prevent certain TikTok challenges that are going on, and we want to support them in their communication with parents their honest and open communication with parents.
00:19:43.506 --> 00:19:48.971
We have to improve our school culture.
00:19:48.971 --> 00:20:17.119
We have to improve our teacher satisfaction in their jobs, because that's the way you keep high quality teachers, so you're not having to train new teachers and watch new teacher after new teacher after new teacher every single year just hit that brick wall and not be able to come back, not be able to move forward.
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:33.615
So I really do think that we need to put a higher emphasis on how we do MTSS in our buildings.
00:20:33.615 --> 00:20:55.897
We have to improve the judgment-free zone of those MTSS meetings and there are just so many benefits out there if we follow the MTSS framework as it was actually meant to be, and we're going to talk about some of those benefits next week.
00:20:55.897 --> 00:20:57.288
So I hope you tune in.
00:20:57.288 --> 00:21:06.234
Until next time, may your coffee be strong, your students calm and, as always, may your students be progressing.
00:21:06.234 --> 00:21:06.454
Bye.