TRANSKRIPT 🔗
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Ian Huntley, the unremarkable caretaker with a monstrous past, had
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finally been unmasked. But what happened next was.
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Just as disturbing. His trial exposed a catalog of failures
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by social services, by the police, and by those who
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should have joined the dots far earlier. It also exposed
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something darker, a man capable of chilling deceit who kept
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lying even when the evidence was overwhelming.
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This is where psychology meets pathology, where motive gives way
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to mindset, and where the question becomes not how Huntley
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did it, but what kind of man could do this?
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We'll also revisit Maxine car Her story didn't end with
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her release, and to this day her whereabouts remain a
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state secret. Why then, what does that tell us about
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how we view guilt, coercion and redemption.
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You're listening to psychokiller shocking true crime stories. This is
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part three, The mind behind the Mask.
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The moment Ian Huntley took the stand at the Old
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Bailey in November two thousand and three was a chilling
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turning point. He no longer wore the mask of the
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concerned caretaker. Now he was the center of one of
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Britain's most horrifying trials.
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Let's look at how the case unfolded. Huntley pleaded not
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guilty to murdering Hollywell's and Jessica Chapman. The prosecution laid
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out a robust case, fiber evidence, cell site data, eyewitness reports,
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under an alibi that had crashed.
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And then there were the forensic details blood spatter in
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his hallway, burned clothing in a school bin, traces of
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matching material in his car. The jury heard he'd tried
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to destroy evidence, cutting up clothes, cleaning car interiors, yet
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detectives still uncovered enough to dismantle his story.
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When he finally spoke, hontly claimed the girl's deaths were accidents,
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a nosebleed, panicked rescue, drowning, and choking as he tried
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to silence Jessica's screams. The defense implausibly called it pure chaos,
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but the jury didn't buy it.
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After twenty seven days of testimony, the verdict came in
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on the seventeenth of December two thousand and three. Huntley
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was found guilty on both counts of murder a majority verdict,
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and later given two life sentences with a minimum term
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of forty years.
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We asked previously what turn public SAgs suspicion into conviction.
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Here it is not just emotion or intuition, but painstaking
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police work and scrutinized evidence.
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What happened next was the moment this trial became a
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symbol of justice, finally catching up. Cruel and merciless, the
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words used by the judge to describe Ian Huntley tonight
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entering Belmarsh Prison as a convicted double child murderer.
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The judge called him a danger to children and emphasized
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that his crimes demanded whole life imprisonment. However, the Criminal
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Justice Act of two thousand and three meant he would
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face at least a forty year minimum sentence before consideration
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for parole.
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Meanwhile, Maxine Carr, convicted not of murder but of perverting
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the course of justice, served twenty one months before becoming
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to this day one of Britain's most protected former public figures.
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In that court room, a seemingly normal man was exposed
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as a monstrous liar and a manipulator with a behavior
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pattern too twisted to disguise.
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As we delve deeper into Ian Huntley's life post conviction,
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it's essential to examine his behavior and experiences in prison,
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which offer further insight into his psyche and the consequences
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of his actions.
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In twenty eighteen, recordings emerged of Huntley expressing remorse for
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his crimes. In these tapes, he stated, I.
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Am so terribly never be sorry for what I have done.
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The people of Sohen took me into their community. They
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trusted me, They gave me a job and a home,
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and I betrayed that trust in the worst possible way.
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And I'm sorry for what I have done. Sorry for
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the
Load full transcript
pain I cause to the families and friends of
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Holly and Jessica, for the pain I have caused my
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family and friends, and for the pain I have caused
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a community of Soham. I am genuinely, genuinely sorry, and
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it breaks my heart when it is reported I have
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no remorse that I relish something I do not.
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While these statements might suggest genuine remorse, it's important to
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consider the context and motivations behind them.
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Huntley's expressions of remorse cult stem from various motivations. They
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might be a genuine acknowledgment of guilt and attempt to
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reshape his public image, or a strategic move to gain
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certain privileges or leniency within the prison system.
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Given Huntley's history of manipulation and deceit, it's crucial to
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approach these confessions with a degree of skepticism.
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After his arrest, Huntley was detained under the Mental Health
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Act at ramped and Secure Hospital for assessment. Psychiatrists concluded
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that although he exhibited psychopathic trades, he did not suffer
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from any major mental illness and was fit to stand trial.
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Following his conviction, Huntley was transferred to the general prison population,
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where he faced a starkly different environment.
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Huntley's notoriety made him a target for other inmates. In
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two thousand and five, he was scolded with boiling water
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by fellow prisoner Mark Hobson. In twenty ten, he suffered
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a severe neck injury when attacked with a makeshift weapon
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by inmate Damien Fowx.
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Back behind bars following a violent attack, Ian Huntley, the
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man who murdered Holly Wells and Jessica.
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Chapman, is recovering after having his throat cut by a
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fellow prisoner. These attacks underscore the perilous nature of prison
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life for high profile offenders, especially those convicted of crimes
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against children.
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The combination of guilt, isolation, and constant threat likely took
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a psychological toll on Huntley. He has reportedly chanted suicide
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multiple times during his incarceration.
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These actions may reflect genuine remorse, a desire to escape
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his circumstances, or a continuation of manipulative behavior aimed at
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eliciting sympathy. Ian Huntley's life behind bars is marked by
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a complex interplay of remorse, manipulation, and retribution.
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As we continue our exploration, we'll delve into the psychological
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assessments and what they reveal about Huntley's character and motivations.
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We've just heard Ian Huntley's so called apology taped inside
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prison and leaked to the Sun newspaper, in which he
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claimed he was genuinely sorry for the murders of Hollywell's
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and Jessica Chapman. But how seriously should we take those words?
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When it comes to statements of remorse from someone like
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Ian Huntley, we just have to ask are we hearing
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the voice of a man coming to terms with the
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horror of what he did or just another manipulative tactic
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from someone who's shown no empathy throughout his life.
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And that brings us to a deeper and more difficult question,
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Can psychopaths ever change or is remorse simply another performance?
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Forensic psychologist Dianand believes the answer might not be as
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clear cut as many of us would like to think.
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The psychopathic brain functions fundamentally differently to the non psychopathic brain,
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and unsaid during a lecture in Nottingham in May twenty
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twenty five, this isn't just a personality issue, it's neurophysiological.
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Psychopaths have different brains architecture. They're amygdala, that part of
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the brain that governs emotion, especially fear and empathy, often
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shows dramatically less activity on scans, and the gray matter
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in the prefrontal cortex, which helps regulate moral judgment and
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impulse control, is often less dense in psychopaths than in
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other people.
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In other words, the science suggests, according to dn And,
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that psychopaths' brains are wired differently, and for someone like Huntley,
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that raises a key question. If the part of your
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brain that governs empathy is physically impaired, can you ever
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truly feel remorse?
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Traditional thinking would say no, but Anand, along with other
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psychologists like Lucy Johnson, is part of a new school
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of thought known as beyond diagnosis. They believe that psychopathy,
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like many other personality disorders, may have roots in trauma,
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and that it can be treated.
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This represents a major shift in thinking. Instead of asking
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what's wrong with you? And and and Johnson ask what's
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happened to you? They argue that trauma is subjective and
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that even people with deeply antisocial traits can over time
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develop a more stable sense of self and begin to change.
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So how would you know if someone like Huntley was
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making progress? According to Anand and his colleagues, signs of
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recovery would include greater emotional regulation, increased pro social behavior,
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and crucially not reoffending.
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It's worth noting here that Huntley has reportedly made multiple
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suicide attempts in prison, suffered multiple attacks, and lives under
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almost constant isolation. While none of this excuses his crimes,
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it does raise the question has he been forced to
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refer in a way he never did before.
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Or and this is just as possible, is he simply
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playing the game saying what he thinks we want to
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hear in order to seem more human, more forgivable, to
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get something he wants.
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Even within the beyond diagnosis movement. There's debate over whether
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every psychopath can be treated, but one thing's clear. If
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Huntley is changing, it will take more than a prison
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cell confession to prove it.
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And we shouldn't confuse self pity with accountability. Huntley's voice
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on that tape is one thing, but his history, the manipulation,
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the cover ups, the performances he gave on camera while
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Holly and Jessica were already dead, none of that can
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be erased.
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A time on just ready to go off, and unfortunately
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our girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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And I don't think there's any more need that we
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said about him, except the only thing that I'd like
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to say is that the next time I have to
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see him is like we saw our daughters, and that's
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in a coffin.
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Later in this series, we'll return to the question of
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remorse and ask what justice really looks like in cases
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like this, But first.
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We're going to step back and take a closer look
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at Maxine car the only person who stood by Huntley
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and the only person who could have stopped him.
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When the news finally broke that Ian Huntley had murdered
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Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman. There was another figure in
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the spotlight, someone who wasn't in that interrogation room, but
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who became just as vilified in the public eye.
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Maxine Carr, the woman who called Huntly her fiance, the
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woman who gave him an alliboy, and the woman who,
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in her now infamous TV interview, referred to the girls
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in the past tense, even before the world knew that
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they were dead. Here's Jeremy Thompson from ITV News reliving
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that tuning encounter for a program marking the tenth anniversary
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of the Soham murders.
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This is why we set up our main presentation unit.
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This is where I did a lot of the live
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programs that day from the high Street, a very noisy
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little high street here in the hearts of so This
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is where I interviewed Maxine car right here on the
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pavement on the high Street, and what turned out it'd
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be a rather revealing interview.
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This is something I probably keep for the rest of
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my life. I think it's what Holly gave me on
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the last day of terms.
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She was very, very upset because I didn't get my job,
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and that's the kind of girl.
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She was she was just lovely, really lovely.
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That's really very sweet, isn't it.
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Yeah.
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And it was just afterwards when we came off that
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one of the producers said, you know, that was odd.
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Accuine car seemed to be talking about the girls in
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the past, tense, and we all went, yeah, that's right.
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We played back the interview and we thought it was
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rather odd, and we thought, well, we're go and talk
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to the police when they have a moment, when we
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next see them, and we'll talk through the interview. But
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they would have seen them anyway, live on air, and
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I assume that was already starting to play into their
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thinking about the case.
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She may well have been giving something away.
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She may well have done it without any consciousness, whatever
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it is.
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She clearly knew what had taken place to some degree,
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and that those girls had visited the address.
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The next morning. The story became a runaway train. Really,
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it was extraordinary the pace at which it moved.
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In the last few minutes, a twenty eight year old
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man and a twenty five year old woman, both from
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the same area, have been spoken to by police officers
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and had agreed to give witness statements to us.
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Within seconds, we knew that it was Huntly and Car.
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Around eleven thirty that night, I heard that they'd been
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let out and I'd got Maxine Carr's phone number, so
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I gave her a ring and said, can I speak
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to me and Huntley? He said, yeah, we're all right. Thanks.
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We don't want to talk to you anymore, but we're
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out and we're going to our family's home.
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Later that night, the police searched the caretaker's storage hanger
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and found the burnt remains of Colleen Jessica's clothes.
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In the last few hours, a twenty eight year old
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man and a twenty five year old woman have been arrested.
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Then, early on Saturday morning, the police called a press
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conference and
dramatically announced that two people had been arrested
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and it was clearly Huntley and Car and this time
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they were being arrested in connection on suspicion of abducting
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and possibly murdering the two girls.
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We explored the possibility that Karr was under Huntley's control,
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that she may have been coerced or manipulated in a
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textbook case of emotional and psychological domination, but that hasn't
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stopped the British public from making up their minds about her.
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For many, Maxine Carr remains a figure of loathing. She
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didn't kill the girls, she wasn't even in som when
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they died, but the sense of betrayal ran deep. She
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was a teaching assistant, a trusted figure. She'd looked those
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girls in the eye, and then she lied to protect
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their killer.
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During her trial, Carr admitted that she'd provided Huntley with
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a false alibi, but she insisted she did so because
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she was scared of losing him, not because she knew
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what he'd done. The court ultimately accepted that she didn't
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take part in the murders and sentence her to three
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and a half years in prison for perverting the course
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of justice.
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She served just twenty one months, and then she disappear.
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Maxine car is one of the very few people in
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Britain who have been granted a lifelong anonymity order. It's
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a rare legal mechanism, usually reserved for high risk cases
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involving vulnerable individuals who are at genuine risk of harm
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from vigilantes.
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That means we don't know where she lives, what name
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she goes by, whether she has children, or what kind
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of life she leads. Now, all of that information is
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protected by law, and any journalist or member of the
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public who tries to expose her could face serious criminal charges.
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And yet Car's shadow looms large in the public imagination.
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Entire online forums have been devoted to unmasking her. There
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have been cases of mistaken identity, women
falsely accused of
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being Maxine Car who were hounded out of their homes.
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It's a stark reminder of how powerful emotion and outrage
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can be in a case like this, especially when there's
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still a lingering sense that justice wasn't fully done.
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But here's the real question. Can we accept that Car
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may have been both complicit and controlled, that her actions
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were morally wrong but not criminally malicious.
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Caught or the court she believed Huntley was innocent, that
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she couldn't reconcile the man she loved with the monster
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she now knows him to be. But whether that was naivety,
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wilful blindness, or emotional dependence, the consequences were devastating.
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So we may never know the full truth of Carr's
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role or how much she truly suspected. But the legal
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system made a judgment. She served her sentence and now
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she lives a life most of us can only guess at.
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So as we wrap up this episode, we're left with
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two people, one convicted of murder, one convicted of deception,
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both etched into the national memory for very different reasons.
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Thanks for listening to this episode of Psychokiller Shocking True
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Crime Stories. If you found this story disturbing, compelling, or both,
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We've got more where that came from, much more.
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In fact, there are over seventy episodes in our archive,
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secrets of Andre Schicicatillo, or the big question are psychopaths
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born or made? We've covered it all.
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So if this episode has left you wanting more, you
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You'll find every episode, some bonus content, and some of
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the most chilling true crime stories ever told.
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The sources in This episode included BBC News, Good Morning Britain,
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ITV News, and the Sun newspaper. You'll find a full
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list of the resources we used on the website and
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in the podcast notes for this mini series.
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So until the next time, stay safe, stay curious, and
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remember not all monsters live under the bed.