Voice First, Plot Later: Mimi Montgomery on Writing, and Rewriting, Murder Bites

WEBVTT
00:00:00.025 --> 00:00:00.744
Krisserin
00:00:00.848 --> 00:00:01.699
Hello, Kelton.
00:00:01.794 --> 00:00:04.054
What did you say you're, you're whooped?
00:00:04.828 --> 00:00:05.498
I'm whooped.
00:00:05.788 --> 00:00:08.429
When you said,"Are you wiped?" I'm also wiped.
00:00:08.439 --> 00:00:10.798
I'm wiped, I'm whooped, I'm walloped.
00:00:12.148 --> 00:00:12.759
I'm worn out.
00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:14.580
I'm Krisserin Kiniry.
00:00:14.619 --> 00:00:15.640
And I'm Kelton Wright.
00:00:15.710 --> 00:00:18.269
Follow our quest to publish our first novels.
00:00:18.269 --> 00:00:23.730
From first drafts- To query letters- Through inevitable rejections And hopefully eventual success.
00:00:23.739 --> 00:00:25.910
From California To Colorado.
00:00:26.250 --> 00:00:27.789
This is Pen Pals.
00:00:30.344 --> 00:00:30.893
No
00:00:31.498 --> 00:00:39.067
the child went to bed last night at 10:30, and then woke up And, like, not a cheerful wake-up.
00:00:39.268 --> 00:00:47.478
He woke up with, like, an angry crawl toward the edge of the bed, I was like,"You're gonna fall off the bed.
00:00:47.487 --> 00:00:50.677
Get back here." And I grabbed him by his leg and, like, yanked him back.
00:00:50.948 --> 00:00:54.484
And he was like, No! I'm getting up." And I was like,"It's dark in here.
00:00:54.484 --> 00:00:55.694
Just let me turn a light on.
00:00:55.694 --> 00:00:58.344
You're gonna fall off the bed." And he's just, like, screaming.
00:00:59.783 --> 00:01:02.243
And then, and then we were just up.
00:01:03.223 --> 00:01:05.433
Uh, so I'm tired.
00:01:06.444 --> 00:01:14.963
And that's like, you know, he's woken up several times in the night, and usually those I can just kinda, like, m- massage his back and get him to fall back asleep.
00:01:14.974 --> 00:01:16.793
But my sleep is very disrupted.
00:01:16.813 --> 00:01:17.433
I'm tired.
00:01:17.504 --> 00:01:19.963
Ben is out of town, so I'm solo parenting.
00:01:20.884 --> 00:01:23.194
this morning I was like,"Get in the car.
00:01:23.254 --> 00:01:26.743
We have to go to school." And he's like,"I don't wanna go to school.
00:01:26.743 --> 00:01:30.024
I wanna And I was like,"That's all you do at school.
00:01:30.093 --> 00:01:31.784
It's not real school yet."
00:01:32.397 --> 00:01:37.359
Oh, man Yeah, solo parenting in, when your, when your spouse is out of town is rough.
00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:40.620
It's not for the, the weak-hearted
00:01:41.225 --> 00:01:45.195
Yeah, that, it, some part of it is simplified'cause you're like,"Well, it's just me and you.
00:01:45.206 --> 00:01:53.665
I guess I'm not doing anything else." Um, and I did have a friend stop by last night that, um, Woods and Jibs were in love with.
00:01:53.695 --> 00:01:55.546
Jibs was just trying to hump her the whole time.
00:01:55.745 --> 00:01:59.096
So, um, so that was really nice.
00:01:59.126 --> 00:02:01.105
But woo! Woo-ee!
00:02:02.852 --> 00:02:03.871
Well, how was your week?
00:02:04.102 --> 00:02:05.492
How was your writing week?
00:02:07.103 --> 00:02:10.544
I edited four chapters, so not
00:02:10.574 --> 00:02:11.104
Okay
00:02:11.514 --> 00:02:21.614
I wanted, but I got four, and I also, I, I was able to move something around structurally that ended up being quite critical to the beginning of the book.
00:02:22.093 --> 00:02:30.313
So I honestly think I'm almost ready to just, like, send you those first four chapters just to get, like, a gut check.
00:02:30.593 --> 00:02:43.463
'Cause, uh, it's, you know, I'm at the point now where I've read those chapters so many times, and I've been in that part of the story so much that I'm a little, like, I, I can't see the forest for the trees, you know?
00:02:43.536 --> 00:02:43.985
Yeah
00:02:44.653 --> 00:02:50.313
I think it's time to send them out before I go hog wild on editing the whole thing, just to be like,"What's missing here?
00:02:50.413 --> 00:02:51.514
Does this feel right?
00:02:51.584 --> 00:02:55.653
Are any of these characters underdeveloped in the beginning?" Like, are you interested?
00:02:56.653 --> 00:03:01.063
So may- maybe that will be, um, something I do soon.
00:03:02.575 --> 00:03:07.985
Yeah, I know that feeling when you've been looking at something for so long you can't see anything.
00:03:07.985 --> 00:03:09.346
You're just completely blind
00:03:09.795 --> 00:03:09.806
Mm-hmm.
00:03:10.156 --> 00:03:10.686
to it.
00:03:10.705 --> 00:03:15.596
Um, and you gotta kind of walk away from it and move on to the next thing and then come back to it with fresh eyes.
00:03:15.735 --> 00:03:16.105
I'm,
00:03:16.419 --> 00:03:16.840
Yeah
00:03:17.265 --> 00:03:18.695
yeah, very familiar with that feeling.
00:03:18.695 --> 00:03:22.955
Well, I am-- my inbox is open when you are ready to send it through
00:03:23.689 --> 00:03:24.689
How was your writing week?
00:03:26.192 --> 00:03:27.012
It was good.
00:03:27.092 --> 00:03:47.912
Um, I kind of took a page out of your book where I'm not trying to, make my writing time this, like, special ritualistic thing that I get up in the morning to do with my coffee and all of that, because I'm just, like you, a little too tired to do that.
00:03:47.912 --> 00:04:01.092
So I have been finding whatever small amounts of time I have to write, and funny enough, I saw this thing come across my Instagram feed that was like famous writers who wrote in bed.
00:04:01.752 --> 00:04:05.632
So I kind of like that idea, and I've been, you know...
00:04:05.872 --> 00:04:10.412
It was 200 words here, 200 words there.
00:04:10.421 --> 00:04:11.722
My goal was 1,000.
00:04:11.722 --> 00:04:14.051
I think I got to, almost 1,200.
00:04:14.701 --> 00:04:17.081
So I hit my...
00:04:17.161 --> 00:04:18.612
Yeah, I hit my goal.
00:04:18.692 --> 00:04:28.971
I think that I'm having trouble, and I don't know if I talked about this last week'cause I have a memory of a goldfish, but for those listeners who didn't listen last week, this is new information.
00:04:29.052 --> 00:04:39.922
I'm having trouble figuring out how to write a story in a way that's compelling when it's being told, like through dialogue, when it's being recounted.
00:04:40.541 --> 00:04:48.906
Because obviously you don't have access to figurative language in a way that you would when you're telling something from a third person POV.
00:04:49.052 --> 00:04:58.692
And so that's something that I'm struggling with, but I did start reading Priestdaddy, which was a recommendation from Caitlin Kunkel, and that book is so funny.
00:04:58.701 --> 00:05:09.422
Like, I was laughing out loud while reading it, and because it's very much a first-person narration, I've been getting some ideas.
00:05:09.461 --> 00:05:10.492
It's so well-written.
00:05:10.591 --> 00:05:11.422
It's so smart.
00:05:11.531 --> 00:05:11.812
But yeah.
00:05:11.812 --> 00:05:14.122
And then in terms of my craft essay, I didn't do shit.
00:05:14.802 --> 00:05:15.851
I didn't do anything.
00:05:15.942 --> 00:05:22.422
I did nothing, I thought about it, and the result was just despair.
00:05:22.786 --> 00:05:22.815
thought about it.
00:05:23.218 --> 00:05:28.017
and our listeners, like, what are they asking of you when you have to write a craft essay?
00:05:28.517 --> 00:05:34.608
I just realized that I kind of like was like,"Oh, I think I know what that is," and then I, the more I thought about it, I was like,"I don't know what she's doing."
00:05:36.247 --> 00:05:43.108
Well, the good thing is that it's only three pages, which really relieves a lot of stress and anxiety.
00:05:43.187 --> 00:05:53.007
Basically it is a MLA style three-page essay that has a thesis of some sort.
00:05:53.007 --> 00:05:59.757
You have to have a, a title that describes kind of like what your take on the specific craft element that you're gonna talk about, is about.
00:05:59.757 --> 00:06:09.517
You have to cite, you have to pull quotes, and you have quotations in the essay itself, and have a, you know, works cited at the end that's in MLA format.
00:06:09.617 --> 00:06:16.447
The good news is when I took, those classes at Harvard, I took one class, my pro seminar class was...
00:06:16.478 --> 00:06:20.088
a lot of it was learning how to write these papers, um, with Dr.
00:06:20.088 --> 00:06:21.827
Elizabeth Sharpe McKetta.
00:06:21.827 --> 00:06:33.567
And she was so-- That class is worth the money that you pay for it because, she reads your first drafts, gi- gives you edits and, shows you how to really write a paper.
00:06:33.908 --> 00:06:39.478
Which you think being an English literature major I would know how to write a paper, but this is kind of like a different beast.
00:06:40.038 --> 00:06:52.608
So yeah, that is, that is-- I'd have to have a, like a crystallized thesis and idea about what I wanna talk about for a specific piece of literature, and then have evidence to support it.
00:06:53.278 --> 00:06:55.148
Which, um, yeah.
00:06:55.807 --> 00:06:56.228
It's cool.
00:06:56.228 --> 00:06:56.617
It's like
00:06:56.735 --> 00:06:57.036
out
00:06:57.627 --> 00:06:59.838
sorry if you're like,"Sounds like boring."
00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:01.540
Like, yeah,
00:07:01.567 --> 00:07:01.728
I think it-
00:07:01.750 --> 00:07:03.579
is why I'm not taking an MFA
00:07:04.572 --> 00:07:12.052
It's, it's interesting'cause it definitely, like, scratches a different part of my brain, and then, it's interesting to look at literature that way.
00:07:12.062 --> 00:07:14.651
Like, what are, what would, what was this writer trying to do?
00:07:14.721 --> 00:07:20.141
Like, what are, what are the different, strategies are they taking to, draw you into the story?
00:07:20.172 --> 00:07:33.932
And when I wrote the paper on Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins, she does this really interesting thing where in the first half of the short story that opens the book, she starts the story six different times.
00:07:34.942 --> 00:07:36.072
She's like,"Let's start here.
00:07:36.461 --> 00:07:38.041
Actually, this is a good place to start.
00:07:38.182 --> 00:07:46.612
Maybe we can start at this point." And sh- that's how she's kind of, like, moving you along and introducing these new elements of the history that she's building the narrati- narrative.
00:07:46.942 --> 00:07:49.021
So that's what I wrote that paper about.
00:07:49.021 --> 00:07:55.572
But yeah, it's, that's why it's a little daunting'cause I have to, read the book, have an idea, find the evidence, write the paper.
00:07:55.591 --> 00:08:03.882
But once you get to that point, once I have the idea and I kind of know what evidence, it's just about, like, spitting it out on the page and cleaning it up.
00:08:03.901 --> 00:08:07.192
But I have to read the book and have an idea first.
00:08:07.684 --> 00:08:10.134
I'm also reading a Caitlin Kunkel suggestion.
00:08:10.134 --> 00:08:13.134
I'm f- I finally picked up Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash.
00:08:13.244 --> 00:08:23.194
And I bring it up because there's a section in the very beginning of the book about the bug gnats, little annoying gnats flying around.
00:08:24.264 --> 00:08:31.103
and she uses the spelling of gnats to inform future spellings throughout the first part of the book.
00:08:31.124 --> 00:08:34.573
I'm only about a quarter in, so I don't know, really know what happens after that.
00:08:34.933 --> 00:08:41.083
But I am curious to see, like, if these are just supposed to be as annoying as gnats
00:08:41.868 --> 00:08:42.298
Hmm
00:08:42.703 --> 00:08:44.354
or if it's, like, leading up to something.
00:08:44.354 --> 00:08:50.274
Either way, I'm, like, charmed by it, and I completely agree with Kunkel that, uh, it's a very funny book.
00:08:50.323 --> 00:08:55.423
I don't know how you could read this book and not find it to be full of humor.
00:08:56.464 --> 00:09:00.583
I'm, I'm sort of, like, stunned, that that wasn't the main takeaway.
00:09:00.583 --> 00:09:04.604
But yeah, Caitlin Kunkel with her syllabus continues to deliver
00:09:05.620 --> 00:09:17.143
One thing that we didn't mention when she was on the pod,'cause I obviously like when I'm pulling her bio and her photo for when we upload the episodes, I'm like looking around every single author's website.
00:09:17.753 --> 00:09:22.432
She has a lot of classes, online classes that people can take around, comedy writing.
00:09:22.432 --> 00:09:25.552
There was one that was like write like an athlete, which we talked about in the past.
00:09:25.592 --> 00:09:30.923
We've talked about writing like an athlete, and I guess she was a competitive swimmer, which we didn't get into on the episode either.
00:09:31.503 --> 00:09:44.067
But I thought that was really cool, and so if you liked Caitlin and you want to take some of her classes, you should visit her website, and check those out'cause they're online and accessible By the way, Kelton, your hair looks fantastic.
00:09:44.866 --> 00:09:46.976
You might be tired, but you're having a good hair day.
00:09:47.125 --> 00:09:48.575
at least something looks good.
00:09:48.585 --> 00:09:51.904
Did I tell you that one of the cats peed on our stove?
00:09:53.188 --> 00:09:53.908
No?
00:09:54.938 --> 00:09:56.239
So like the last,
00:09:56.273 --> 00:09:57.202
Which one?
00:09:57.613 --> 00:09:58.423
The new one
00:09:58.938 --> 00:10:02.889
No, it's definitely not Bob because she's really good about using the litter box.
00:10:02.889 --> 00:10:04.609
She's like a litter box loyalist.
00:10:04.948 --> 00:10:08.418
It's gotta be one of the, like, vindictive, territorial older men.
00:10:09.129 --> 00:10:19.389
So, it's just such a feat to clean it, and it's one of those things where, like, Ben really loses his mind about cleaning up cat pee.
00:10:19.708 --> 00:10:25.269
And so since he's not here, I'm like, I'm fastidiously trying to get all of it clean before he comes home.
00:10:26.408 --> 00:10:34.078
and that has been trying with a toddler,'cause the toddler's like,"Hang out with me." I'm like,"I'm cleaning up cat pee off of where we cook our dinner.
00:10:34.078 --> 00:10:46.989
I need you to in, FaceTime one of your grandmothers, leave me alone while I manage this." And so, like, this kitchen is in, like, a state of chaos as I've, like, disassembled our stove top.
00:10:47.318 --> 00:10:56.479
Thankfully we have a, we have kind of like a restaurant stove top, so you can really take it fully apart and, like, get into the undersides and everything.
00:10:56.479 --> 00:10:59.328
But it is still, ooh, it's a task.
00:10:59.808 --> 00:11:00.818
It is a task
00:11:02.270 --> 00:11:02.581
Hmm.
00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:04.801
I'm mad at that cat, whichever one it is.
00:11:04.965 --> 00:11:05.075
I
00:11:05.201 --> 00:11:06.490
Whichever one it is.
00:11:06.804 --> 00:11:10.585
it's pretty, clear, like, how my writing time was this past week.
00:11:10.605 --> 00:11:12.625
I did get, um, a buoy.
00:11:13.504 --> 00:11:17.225
I saw a light cast on the water of the storms.
00:11:18.855 --> 00:11:36.784
a friend of mine who's very successful and has a, a great agent, she was like,"When you're done with your book, I'm happy to send it to my agent." And I've had this offer before, which is always-- it's so gobsmacking and gracious to me that someone has enough faith in my writing to say that before they have read the book.
00:11:38.524 --> 00:11:46.774
this is the first time that I went to that agent's site and saw that the book I am writing is number one on what they're looking for.
00:11:47.835 --> 00:11:48.075
And I
00:11:48.096 --> 00:11:48.907
Hell yeah
00:11:50.085 --> 00:11:54.274
Oh, this could actually work." Which was really exciting.
00:11:54.284 --> 00:12:04.134
I mean, I'm obviously gonna take advantage of every connection I have that's been, you know, so lovely and kind to me to be like any, any, anyone who wants to read it, I wanna read it.
00:12:04.554 --> 00:12:09.965
But to see, like, what I'm writing as someone's number one was really invigorating and motivating.
00:12:09.965 --> 00:12:14.134
So it did make me, like, excited to be editing
00:12:15.339 --> 00:12:24.418
I mean, I think you saying that it's incredible that your friend has enough faith in your writing, how many essays have you written that she's probably read?
00:12:25.013 --> 00:12:31.403
Yeah, but I, I guess maybe that's my internal battle because I know how different those essays are from this book.
00:12:32.153 --> 00:12:34.842
It's a really different style of writing,
00:12:35.264 --> 00:12:37.274
Yeah, but it's your voice, Kelton.
00:12:37.284 --> 00:12:39.394
Your voice is so compelling
00:12:39.472 --> 00:12:39.613
No.
00:12:39.682 --> 00:12:40.852
No, it's not my voice.
00:12:40.972 --> 00:12:43.023
It's the protagonist's voice.
00:12:43.153 --> 00:12:45.562
So this book does not sound like me.
00:12:45.572 --> 00:12:47.263
It sounds like my protagonist
00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:51.280
Okay, well I will reserve judgment until I read it, and then I'll say
00:12:51.366 --> 00:12:51.687
wait.
00:12:51.836 --> 00:12:59.596
I can't wait for Krisserin to come on our next episode, uh, and tell you guys if it sounds like me or not.
00:12:59.606 --> 00:13:01.226
Now I have to send you those pages
00:13:01.514 --> 00:13:02.335
Hell yeah.
00:13:03.365 --> 00:13:04.884
I peer pressured you into it.
00:13:05.375 --> 00:13:24.794
I mean, I s- I think it speaks to the value of having a community and having writer friends and people in the trenches with you is just so vital and so important, and why we're hopefully going to launch a little pen pals community in the near future for all of our listeners to partake in
00:13:25.390 --> 00:13:33.150
and we do keep talking about on the podcast how so many of our guests, who are authors have such curious paths to being agented.
00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:39.130
Very rarely has someone come on and been like,"Oh, I just queried." Including today.
00:13:39.931 --> 00:13:42.260
guest today has a crazy agent story.
00:13:42.510 --> 00:13:45.400
Today we are having on Mimi Montgomery.
00:13:45.630 --> 00:13:51.821
She's a journalist and author who's written for places like Axios, People, The Washington Post, Washingtonian.
00:13:52.260 --> 00:13:56.671
Her reporting's been featured on Jimmy Kimmel Live, Inside Edition, and CNN.
00:13:56.671 --> 00:13:58.600
This is a very varied career Mimi has.
00:13:58.740 --> 00:13:58.760
Oop.
00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:07.701
And her first novel, Murder Bites, is out now with Penguin Random House and was named a Best New Mystery by The New York Times Book Review.
00:14:07.854 --> 00:14:14.864
she's originally from North Carolina, lives in DC, both places I've lived, and has a family and several furry dependents.
00:14:15.313 --> 00:14:18.803
And she is a listener of the pod, and she DM'd us.
00:14:19.203 --> 00:14:24.063
So slide into our DMs, and you might just slide onto this podcast
00:14:24.916 --> 00:14:26.216
Wouldn't be the first time.
00:14:26.605 --> 00:14:30.946
So yeah, without further ado, welcome guest and listener Mimi Montgomery
00:14:34.096 --> 00:14:36.006
Mimi welcome to Pen Pals.
00:14:36.006 --> 00:14:37.307
It's so nice to have you
00:14:37.428 --> 00:14:38.759
Thanks so much for having me.
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:43.489
I am a longtime listener, first-time caller, so I am so thrilled to be here with you guys
00:14:43.678 --> 00:14:46.219
All right, we need to hear a little about Murder Bytes.
00:14:46.239 --> 00:14:47.808
Please sell our listeners.
00:14:47.839 --> 00:14:51.668
I was an immediate sell after the first page, so bring them into your world
00:14:52.937 --> 00:14:55.357
Yeah, I mean, it's a tale as old as time.
00:14:55.368 --> 00:15:00.238
Basically, it's a death on the set of a reality TV show about dogs.
00:15:00.548 --> 00:15:01.447
Say no more, right?
00:15:01.488 --> 00:15:07.048
Uh, but the, uh, yes, this reality TV show called Pawsh, like P-A-W-S-H, Pawsh.
00:15:07.048 --> 00:15:10.378
I'm doing little dog paws here for people who can't see me.
00:15:10.707 --> 00:15:28.898
And it basically follows this woman, Margo, who is sort of, you know, your classic urbanite, hyper, hyper liberal, super educated, needs to let everyone know about it, who's dragged down to this small town in South Carolina by her husband, and immediately, like, writes off everyone i- there as sort of, like, lesser than.
00:15:28.908 --> 00:15:30.197
A bunch of hillbillies, whatever.
00:15:30.618 --> 00:15:43.687
And but then she's pinned for this murder, the dog reality TV show murder, and she has to team up with the very same people that she wrote off to clear her name, and then she realizes that, actually she might be the problem, not them, and hijinks and giggles ensue.
00:15:43.974 --> 00:15:49.423
Yes, this book was packed full of hijinks, which I, I personally love.
00:15:49.453 --> 00:15:50.703
I was along for the ride.
00:15:50.774 --> 00:15:55.653
I was ignoring all of my responsibilities at home, including cleaning the cat pee off the stove.
00:15:56.033 --> 00:15:57.943
So this is a really awesome book.
00:15:57.953 --> 00:16:06.254
It was super voicey, I kind of wanna hear a, a little about how you came to it,'cause this was your first foray into fiction, right?
00:16:06.341 --> 00:16:07.890
Strong debut on voice.
00:16:07.971 --> 00:16:14.860
Like, I was like,"Okay, I, I ha- I know who Mimi Montgomery is as a writer," which is amazing, but tell us, like, your path to writing
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:17.970
Yeah, no, so I'm a full-time journalist.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:18.820
That's my day job.
00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:23.629
And so I mean, I've been, like, professionally writing for, over a decade now.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:25.330
I always, I always wanted to write a book.
00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.059
It's, such a cliche, but I turned 30, and I had the realization that no one's, like, waiting for your thing.
00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:39.059
There weren't, like, a bunch of, people, like, sitting in, like, the, you know, Penguin Random House office being like,"Hmm, I wonder when this rando Mimi Montgomery will write a book." You kinda just have to go out and do it yourself.
00:16:39.139 --> 00:16:45.240
And I knew I wanted kids and yada, yada, and so I figured I might as well do it while I still had some, some more free time on my plate.
00:16:45.649 --> 00:16:52.519
And so yeah, so I just started, like, waking up really early in the morning before my day job and, writing all the...
00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:57.049
like, all, all weekend, like, squirreling myself away, and just kind of hacking away at it.
00:16:57.049 --> 00:17:08.900
But, yeah, I think as far as voice, I was lucky in that my background is in magazine feature writing, which lends itself to being sort of more creative in voices and, like, essays and stuff like that.
00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:15.460
So I feel like I had some time to hone my voice and sort of see, what resonates with people.
00:17:15.769 --> 00:17:18.759
And so I was able to take that into fiction.
00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:25.279
But, as far as the fiction part of it, that was, like, a humongous learning curve for me, and I kind of got, like, my ass kicked, that.
00:17:25.289 --> 00:17:26.869
But yeah, I mean, it...
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.819
and, the voice, like, for better or for worse, that is, like, basically how I talk.
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:35.069
Like, all of my friends are like,"I felt like I was just, listening to, a podcast of you speaking." And I was like,"Wow, that sounds fucking awful.
00:17:35.069 --> 00:17:36.549
I'm sorry." But, it's just...
00:17:36.990 --> 00:17:38.470
yeah, it's just me.
00:17:38.470 --> 00:17:39.740
I don't know.
00:17:40.532 --> 00:17:45.883
So when you sat down to write fiction, did you have the idea for this book off the top of your head?
00:17:45.952 --> 00:17:47.383
Was that your first try?
00:17:48.445 --> 00:17:50.875
This was my first try at writing a novel.
00:17:50.875 --> 00:17:51.976
Yeah, pretty much.
00:17:52.046 --> 00:17:59.375
I had had this like idea for a novel that I once told two of my friends, and they were like,"Girl, that's the plot to Avatar." And I was like,"Oh, I didn't know that.
00:17:59.375 --> 00:18:04.155
I've never watched that movie." I was like,"I probably shouldn't pursue that or James Cameron will sue me." But yeah.
00:18:04.155 --> 00:18:07.655
No, this is the first time I had sat down and tried to write a novel.
00:18:07.736 --> 00:18:09.925
And really what came to me first was the setting.
00:18:09.935 --> 00:18:21.316
I'm from a small town in the South, outside of Charlotte, North Carolina, and I always knew I wanted to like set something in an environment like that'cause I just thought it was like so ripe for tension and like fun and hijinks and stuff
00:18:21.452 --> 00:18:24.603
Do you have, like, a writing community that you were sending it around to?
00:18:24.603 --> 00:18:30.272
Like, did you reach out to your journalist friends to be like,"I have an extremely long feature for you to look at"?
00:18:31.539 --> 00:18:35.099
Yeah, I'm writing a story about this town and this reality TV show about dogs.
00:18:35.529 --> 00:18:41.869
I, so I'm based up in the DC area, and, there's this place c- up here in Bethesda called, The Writer's Center.
00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:51.220
So I signed up for, a novel boot camp there, with the thinking that, like, if I paid, money to write, then I would, be forced to write, which was helpful and good.
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:56.880
And so that sort of, like, got me in, the accountability routine of, doing the thing every day.
00:18:56.980 --> 00:19:00.579
And then when I had a full draft, I showed it to...
00:19:00.609 --> 00:19:04.589
Actually, it's one of my good friends, the writer Kate Myers, who has written a couple...
00:19:04.819 --> 00:19:07.430
she wrote Excavations and Salty, which are both great books.
00:19:07.549 --> 00:19:12.759
I showed it to her, and I think I showed it to, a couple friends who are, like, very, big readers.
00:19:12.849 --> 00:19:21.400
And retrospect, like, that's pretty much the same draft that I got my agent off of, which is, wild, in retrospect, because it was, like, it was so bad.
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:22.710
Like, it was very, very bad.
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:26.640
Um, I sort of got the same feedback that I got from my agent, which is like,"These...
00:19:26.670 --> 00:19:31.490
This is just basically, people sort of, like, vibing and, doing things for, 300 pages.
00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:37.960
There's, like, real- no, like, real, like, plot or, like, stakes or anything." And I was like,"Oh, wow, what a novel concept.
00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:49.460
Okay, I'm gonna send it off to my to literary agents anyway." And so I just, like, queried with it, and I mean, I very much lucked out that I landed my agent,'cause in retrospect it was, not very well-baked, hence my
00:19:49.641 --> 00:19:49.851
Ali
00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:51.019
learn a lot about fiction
00:19:52.060 --> 00:19:54.171
Tell me more about the querying process
00:19:55.635 --> 00:20:02.026
Yeah, so I, I lucked out big time in that I...
00:20:02.715 --> 00:20:06.546
Like I said, my friend Kate, her agent, Claire Freedman, who is at InkWell, she...
00:20:06.715 --> 00:20:10.596
Kate and I have a similar sensibility in that I think we both tend to write funny and voicey.
00:20:11.385 --> 00:20:14.425
She was like,"You know, Ca- Claire might, will probably like your writing.
00:20:14.435 --> 00:20:23.605
You should query her maybe, after you spruce this up a little bit." And I was like,"I'm just gonna send it to her." And so I And Claire was basically like, same feedback.
00:20:23.605 --> 00:20:25.925
She was like,"Okay, I really like the line-level writing here.
00:20:25.925 --> 00:20:27.435
I like your voice," yada, yada, yada.
00:20:27.445 --> 00:20:48.185
"The plot is nonexistent." and so she basically, took a chance on me, and she said,"Look, why don't you go write me outline of, plot beats that you would hit if this was, like, an actual book that people might want to read?" And I was like,"Okay." So I went and did that and sent it back to her, and she, signed me on that, which was...
00:20:48.256 --> 00:20:55.026
I really lucked out in retrospect that she just happened to, like, like my writing and my voice and thought that we could figure out the plot stuff on the back end.
00:20:56.292 --> 00:20:57.772
That's, that's amazing.
00:20:58.123 --> 00:21:01.383
I mean, what was missing from the draft?
00:21:01.383 --> 00:21:05.913
It's like, to me it's, you know, I, I'm reading the finished product, so it's a murder mystery.
00:21:05.962 --> 00:21:09.053
I'm like, was there, like, not a murder in the first draft?
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:09.809
Yeah.
00:21:09.809 --> 00:21:11.630
I mean, typically those are pretty plotty
00:21:13.468 --> 00:21:19.038
Y'all, I don't know, somehow I managed to write the least plottiest, like, worst murder mystery of all time.
00:21:19.057 --> 00:21:24.867
I, I, like, actually haven't gone back to look at it because I'm like, it's, that's probably painful, but I don't know.
00:21:24.877 --> 00:21:29.417
Somehow, you know, I just really managed to write something that was really bad.
00:21:29.847 --> 00:21:31.387
I have no idea.
00:21:31.657 --> 00:21:37.488
Um, but yeah, but I think she was like,"We can, we can work on the plot together," and so I'm lucky that she, that she decided to do that with me
00:21:38.212 --> 00:21:38.643
That's awesome.
00:21:38.653 --> 00:21:39.782
What does that look like?
00:21:39.813 --> 00:21:40.702
You know, working...
00:21:40.923 --> 00:21:45.053
You know, you delivered an outline, um, and then you're working with her on the plot.
00:21:45.063 --> 00:21:51.992
Like, when you already have this full book written, can you talk a little about, like, how you approached editing it to rework a plot?
00:21:52.403 --> 00:21:55.432
That's like adding a foundation to a house after it's built
00:21:56.476 --> 00:21:57.096
For sure, yeah.
00:21:57.096 --> 00:21:58.056
Would not recommend.
00:21:58.105 --> 00:22:00.415
It was hard, and it took a long time.
00:22:00.846 --> 00:22:04.895
Um, I, I basically had to sort of just, like, tear it up again.
00:22:04.915 --> 00:22:05.715
I found that I could...
00:22:05.746 --> 00:22:06.185
I kept...
00:22:06.476 --> 00:22:15.385
I could keep the characters, and I could keep the environment, and I could keep a lot of, like, the line-level writing, like detail, like jokes, stuff that I liked.
00:22:15.425 --> 00:22:18.576
But really the plot beats had to change in a big way.
00:22:18.905 --> 00:22:23.086
And so it was, like, it was a lot of, really big sort of structural work.
00:22:23.086 --> 00:22:30.996
Your analogy for a house is very correct in that, I imagine it's probably like having to go and fix the entire foundation, which is a pain in the ass and so expensive.
00:22:31.375 --> 00:22:43.205
And so now for future writing projects, I'm really trying to be really, about sort of knowing which beats I want to write and make sure I have all my stakes, and my emotional development and all of that, incorporated in.
00:22:43.215 --> 00:22:48.635
Because that was, like, another big feedback is that I got is that, you know, yes, my humor tends to...
00:22:48.685 --> 00:22:53.355
I mean, my writing tends to run funny, and the main character, Margo, is, a very prickly person.
00:22:53.705 --> 00:23:03.056
And the combination of those two things can be, like, jarring to people if you don't have enough, um, of like emotional, emotional change and emotional, backstory there.
00:23:03.056 --> 00:23:13.695
And so that's also something I had to, really work on because, I think in my first draft I, really lacked that sort of emotional depth that's, needed to, make something that's so funny and, a bit prickly land.
00:23:14.971 --> 00:23:16.240
How long did that edit take?
00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:18.910
Um, which one?
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:20.859
I did like 50 of them.
00:23:23.012 --> 00:23:29.762
All right, from, uh, from sending the outline to Claire to being like,"Let's get this out to publishers"
00:23:30.887 --> 00:23:32.367
Like maybe four months, I wanna say?
00:23:32.817 --> 00:23:33.698
Like maybe four months.
00:23:33.758 --> 00:23:36.557
Um, yeah, yeah.
00:23:36.557 --> 00:23:41.988
But then like, you know, the book originally was, was more political.
00:23:41.988 --> 00:23:47.298
Um, so Margot, like I said, is sort of this like hyper-liberal woman who, you know, needs to make all of her beliefs known.
00:23:47.587 --> 00:23:52.097
Um, and so it was more political and a bit more like cultural commentary-esque.
00:23:52.157 --> 00:24:00.387
Um, and so when we tried to sell it, a lot of the feedback that we got from folks was like,"Okay, like the writing, whatever, but like people just don't wanna read about this right now.
00:24:00.387 --> 00:24:08.867
Like, it's too topical." Um, and so, uh, yeah, the plot thickens in that I ended up selling the book off of a revise and resubmit.
00:24:09.268 --> 00:24:24.438
Um, so basically like two editors were like,"If sh- if Mimi goes back and like tones down the political commentary and adds more emotion and depth, like we will take another look." And so I then went back and did that, and then sold it again.
00:24:24.448 --> 00:24:34.847
So when I tell you that this book has been, lived many lives, that I kind of screwed myself by not having a great foundation and then had to go back and spend tons of time and money to fix the foundation like I really did.
00:24:35.077 --> 00:24:46.157
But it was a learning process'cause now I realize how necessary it is to have those elemental pieces of structure in shape before you start adding all of the details.
00:24:46.982 --> 00:24:50.702
Yeah, so do you identify as a pantser or an outliner now?
00:24:51.738 --> 00:25:10.968
I think I identify as like a loose outliner in that I think I can, um, you know, end up shooting myself in the foot and using it as a form of procrastination and sort of self-sabotage to get so mired in ironing out the details totally before I start writing.
00:25:11.317 --> 00:25:22.698
I do feel like I need to know how the story is going to unfold and where I'm gonna end up, and sort of like the little, the little sprinkles, the little chocolate chips along the way I can sort of like figure out as I write, if that makes sense
00:25:24.038 --> 00:25:24.929
Yeah, definitely.
00:25:24.999 --> 00:25:27.558
Are you applying that to any projects now?
00:25:28.857 --> 00:25:40.998
Yes, I am try- I am trying to work on my second book, which is, I had my baby eight months ago, so now I'm trying to do this with a child, which is, as, as you both know, as parents, is,
00:25:41.077 --> 00:25:42.127
Welcome to the hellscape.
00:25:43.300 --> 00:25:43.401
Yeah.
00:25:44.701 --> 00:25:52.750
Um, so yeah, I mean, like, I, I, it's like I try to wake up early in the morning, but I swear to God, like, he just knows that I'm like...
00:25:52.770 --> 00:25:57.750
He's like,"Mom's awake," and it's like 5:15 in the morning, and he's like, you know, he's up.
00:25:57.770 --> 00:26:01.830
Or, like, the weekends, I, you know, I just don't have that time anymore.
00:26:01.830 --> 00:26:07.911
So I'm trying to find the time, which is, which is hard with a full-time job and all the other things, you know?
00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:08.691
Yeah, we
00:26:08.816 --> 00:26:11.365
Especially'cause your job is writing.
00:26:12.076 --> 00:26:19.355
So how do you, how do you balance that, you know, when it's like you're writing all day and then you're like,"Okay, well now, now I'm gonna keep writing again"?
00:26:20.954 --> 00:26:27.865
Yeah, how I balance this, I have to do my fiction early in the morning'cause by 5:00 PM I'm like a vegetable.
00:26:27.865 --> 00:26:31.275
Like my brain, I, I truly could not, could not do that.
00:26:31.585 --> 00:26:33.244
Um, and I'm just a morning person in general.
00:26:33.305 --> 00:26:39.694
Um, so I feel like I, I have to get it out of the way first thing, um, or else it's just, it's not gonna happen
00:26:39.769 --> 00:26:42.500
I'm just, I'm sorry, like writing first thing in the morning.
00:26:42.529 --> 00:26:44.769
Uh, Krisserin Onan, we were just like having
00:26:44.906 --> 00:26:45.616
people or...
00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:46.080
No.
00:26:46.851 --> 00:26:47.151
I'm a
00:26:47.157 --> 00:26:47.508
I mean
00:26:47.681 --> 00:26:48.601
writer also.
00:26:48.861 --> 00:26:56.901
I need it to be the first thing I do, otherwise my brain gets infected with other things and it's hard for me to, to do it.
00:26:56.901 --> 00:27:20.621
But I, I've been taking Kelton's cue,'cause Kelton, is kind of like a opportunist when it comes to finding time to write, and I found that getting anything down rather than having the perfect environment can be a good strategy when you don't have, you know, ideal conditions, like when you have a baby who's demanding your attention or when a cat pees on your
00:27:22.673 --> 00:27:23.732
Yeah, totally.
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:24.859
I'm...
00:27:24.869 --> 00:27:26.900
There's no scheduling involved for me.
00:27:26.900 --> 00:27:33.640
The computer I've found, it just has to be open on the counter, and then any time I'm grazing by, there's another few hundred words
00:27:34.148 --> 00:27:34.568
Yeah
00:27:34.703 --> 00:27:37.544
Honestly, that's like a, that's probably what I need to do.
00:27:37.594 --> 00:27:43.903
That's probably a smarter approach than like me trying to recreate my previous because that's no more.
00:27:43.903 --> 00:27:48.134
Like I'm not gonna have the quiet, lovely mornings anymore, that I used to have.
00:27:48.134 --> 00:27:53.233
So yeah, I probably just need to sorta get'er done when I can, you know?
00:27:54.377 --> 00:27:59.157
I've made this analogy before, but I feel like writing schedules are kind of like babies.
00:27:59.218 --> 00:28:06.768
You know how, in one four-week period you'll have a pillow that saves your life.
00:28:06.778 --> 00:28:14.347
It is the thing that gets the baby to feed and sleep or whatever, or it's like putting the baby in the swing for two weeks.
00:28:14.347 --> 00:28:27.837
It's like,"God, thank you, God, that this swing exists." But then all of a sudden it doesn't work anymore, and you have to find a new strategy, and I feel like it's that way with writing also, where I was very similar, getting up at 5:00 AM, being really productive, and then I just couldn't do it.
00:28:27.998 --> 00:28:37.038
I was just too tired and didn't have the energy and didn't have the motivation, and so I had to find a different way to do it, and I feel like it's very comparable having a baby.
00:28:37.976 --> 00:28:46.655
And it's hard because it's like, okay, on a Saturday, like he naps for two hours in the afternoon, and I'm telling myself or beating myself up like,"Oh, you've gotta, you gotta use this time.
00:28:46.655 --> 00:28:49.776
You gotta write." But I'm like,"Bro, I just wanna stare at a wall."
00:28:50.198 --> 00:28:50.688
Yeah
00:28:50.715 --> 00:28:51.875
take a nap myself.
00:28:51.885 --> 00:28:55.066
Like I'm just like, it's, it's hard
00:28:55.914 --> 00:28:57.734
Yeah, you gotta write when the baby writes
00:28:58.094 --> 00:28:58.273
Yeah.
00:28:59.496 --> 00:29:03.105
I think I, I think I, I think I like retweeted that or whatever on Substack.
00:29:03.105 --> 00:29:04.365
I was like,"Damn, that's..." Yeah
00:29:05.386 --> 00:29:10.227
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just like the, the vice that comes when you have a baby about, getting anything done.
00:29:10.576 --> 00:29:15.666
'Cause baby- it's not like a baby is a, a s- a delivered toy that operates the same way.
00:29:15.666 --> 00:29:21.196
They're all, incredibly unique with all of these horrible challenges where you're like,"I can't write right now.
00:29:21.217 --> 00:29:25.836
I need to be on Reddit scanning 200 comments about what this could be."
00:29:26.809 --> 00:29:27.369
For sure.
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:28.130
Yeah, it's hard.
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:39.769
But I mean, like, I feel like I now I'm, like, fascinated by, like, how other parents, like, write with children'cause it's just, like, how people get it done or it, it's just the whole thing is just fascinating to me
00:29:40.522 --> 00:29:43.972
Yeah, I'm always like, um,"How many miles away does your family live?"
00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:45.059
Yeah.
00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:46.740
Having family around definitely helps
00:29:46.819 --> 00:29:48.299
your spouse do for a living?
00:29:49.205 --> 00:29:49.215
Mm-hmm.
00:29:49.970 --> 00:29:52.289
Like, do they work in venture capital?
00:29:53.189 --> 00:29:53.558
Yeah.
00:29:53.628 --> 00:29:55.949
I was like,"Is there someone else in your house?"
00:29:57.430 --> 00:29:59.349
I was like, the, the, the math is not adding up here.
00:30:00.019 --> 00:30:05.249
yeah, blessed if you can have the resources, by means, please enjoy them.
00:30:05.348 --> 00:30:05.699
But,
00:30:05.905 --> 00:30:06.496
sure, yeah.
00:30:07.229 --> 00:30:13.808
I'm curious too about some of, like, the premise of Murder Bites pre real human baby.
00:30:14.259 --> 00:30:16.169
You had other furry babies.
00:30:16.209 --> 00:30:19.118
Were they some, like, big inspiration points for this book?
00:30:20.673 --> 00:30:21.683
Yeah, they definitely were.
00:30:21.683 --> 00:30:25.713
So, um, my now husband and I did the whole thing.
00:30:25.723 --> 00:30:27.683
We're like, we're like,"Okay, we're gonna focus on our careers.
00:30:27.713 --> 00:30:39.104
We'll have a baby a little bit, you know, later." Um, and so, but I had this, like, biological need to, like, care for something, so we got this silly little French bulldog named Ziggy.
00:30:39.423 --> 00:30:49.084
And, um, us and all of the, like, other loser millennials in our neighborhood joined this, like, really bougie dog bar called, uh, Bark Social in our neighborhood.
00:30:49.413 --> 00:30:50.844
And I mean, it was, like, stupid.
00:30:50.844 --> 00:30:52.253
They were just, like, taking all of our money.
00:30:52.263 --> 00:30:55.693
I would pay them,$25 for Ziggy to get a barkuterie board.
00:30:55.693 --> 00:30:56.894
He would go to daycare.
00:30:57.183 --> 00:31:00.493
Um, he, did little, like, arts and crafts projects, like, all this shit.
00:31:00.503 --> 00:31:01.713
It was, like, so embarrassing.
00:31:01.884 --> 00:31:02.574
But I loved it.
00:31:02.604 --> 00:31:03.743
I absolutely loved it.
00:31:03.753 --> 00:31:07.374
And I was just like,"Man, we are all so embarrassing.
00:31:07.433 --> 00:31:14.144
This is, so funny the way we treat our dogs now."'Cause, growing up we had dogs, but my parents would be like,"Oh, shit, we haven't taken the dog to the vet in, two years.
00:31:14.144 --> 00:31:16.023
We should, probably do that." They were just dogs, you know?
00:31:16.023 --> 00:31:19.753
And now they are, like, like actual little members of our family.
00:31:19.794 --> 00:31:21.624
And we just drop so much money on them.
00:31:21.913 --> 00:31:26.884
And so I knew that there was something, like, really sort of fun to mine there for humor.
00:31:26.933 --> 00:31:30.874
And like, honestly, in retrospect, I kind of did myself a favor'cause now, like, when I'm...
00:31:31.034 --> 00:31:31.814
everyone loves dogs.
00:31:31.864 --> 00:31:36.554
If I'm, like, at, like, a book event, I'm like,"Hey, do you wanna read my book about dogs?" People are like,"Wait, yeah, I love dogs.
00:31:36.564 --> 00:31:40.933
I wanna read this book." So it's kind of, you know, a good way to sell people on things too.
00:31:41.137 --> 00:31:47.087
I mean, I once bought a book, without reading the description just because the title included something about a cat shelter.
00:31:47.758 --> 00:31:49.238
And I was like,"Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:49.928 --> 00:31:53.198
I absolutely wanna read a book entirely about a cat shelter."
00:31:53.969 --> 00:31:54.769
Ja, ja.
00:31:55.827 --> 00:31:56.038
I...
00:31:56.067 --> 00:32:00.667
One of the books I'm working on right now, part of it is from a dog POV.
00:32:01.077 --> 00:32:03.788
So I'm aligned with you.
00:32:04.030 --> 00:32:04.750
Spoilers
00:32:05.238 --> 00:32:08.347
this book isn't coming out for, like, four years, so hang tight.
00:32:08.557 --> 00:32:10.867
This is not the novel I'm currently working on.
00:32:10.926 --> 00:32:11.346
Okay.
00:32:11.346 --> 00:32:11.787
Okay.
00:32:12.684 --> 00:32:13.255
Wait, that's
00:32:13.298 --> 00:32:13.798
No, there's no
00:32:13.894 --> 00:32:16.974
That's, um, what, uh, gosh, Lessons in Chemistry.
00:32:16.974 --> 00:32:20.464
I felt like she did such a great job with, um, the dog's POV
00:32:20.551 --> 00:32:21.301
Yeah, with s-
00:32:21.673 --> 00:32:25.923
like are 50/50 on the dog's POV in that, but,
00:32:26.375 --> 00:32:26.494
Oh,
00:32:26.663 --> 00:32:26.863
I've
00:32:26.903 --> 00:32:27.584
was 7:30?
00:32:28.574 --> 00:32:29.213
I loved it
00:32:29.682 --> 00:32:30.452
I did too.
00:32:30.452 --> 00:32:34.682
I mean, I'm, I'm down, but I also read Robin Hobb where you have an
00:32:34.849 --> 00:32:35.650
Yeah, totally
00:32:36.143 --> 00:32:41.133
who has a who's a dog who you talk to like a normal human.
00:32:41.133 --> 00:32:43.553
So I'm, I'm down for that in
00:32:43.809 --> 00:32:45.470
So where's, where...
00:32:45.650 --> 00:32:47.490
My dog is barking in the background.
00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:52.829
He's like,"More dog books." But for your next fiction project, where is the inspiration coming from?
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:54.289
Do you already have, like, a premise?
00:32:55.439 --> 00:32:56.199
I do.
00:32:56.298 --> 00:32:58.729
It has changed so many times.
00:32:59.098 --> 00:33:08.209
I think the second book is really hard because now you know, like, how the sausage gets made, um, and sort of the whole marketing and stuff, behind it.
00:33:08.209 --> 00:33:12.048
I was, um, up in New York this summer and I was having lunch with my agent and my editor.
00:33:12.229 --> 00:33:12.999
My editor was...
00:33:13.028 --> 00:33:20.798
We were talking about Yesteryear, and my editor was like,"Yeah, for your next book just, like, write something with, like, a really great hook like that." And I was like,"Oh yeah, okay, I'll just, like, go do that.
00:33:21.028 --> 00:33:21.519
Sure.
00:33:22.269 --> 00:33:22.449
No
00:33:22.556 --> 00:33:24.766
Yeah, I'll just write yesteryear, no problem
00:33:25.568 --> 00:33:27.009
yeah, easy enough.
00:33:27.078 --> 00:33:38.868
Um, but so now I think I've been, like, almost getting, I've been getting in my head a little bit about, okay, well, like, I need to write something that's, like, super hooky and, like, super, like, of-the-moment and, like, yadi-yadi-yada.
00:33:38.868 --> 00:33:41.528
So it's definitely been, definitely been hard.
00:33:41.548 --> 00:33:59.358
But I am working on something that, you know, I think I b- ultimately came to the conclusion that the only thing I have control over is sort of really, um, you know, dialing in on my voice, leaning into my weirdness, and sort of, like, making something that, like, only, I feel like only I could do.
00:33:59.358 --> 00:34:09.838
And so I'm just really trying to lean into that, and I'm working on something that, um, I'll say just has to do with ghosts in the South
00:34:11.224 --> 00:34:11.505
Amen.
00:34:11.891 --> 00:34:22.992
Yeah, so I think it's, you know, weirdness and singularity and a point of view, I think that's ultimately, what breaks through.
00:34:22.992 --> 00:34:34.083
I hate to use this comparison, but think about, like, when you're scrolling on your phone, you scroll past so much shit, but you're gonna stop on the video where, someone's doing something really fucking weird and be like,"Whoa, I wanna watch that." And so I'm kinda like, you know...
00:34:34.083 --> 00:34:35.443
And that's, like, how I feel about books too.
00:34:35.452 --> 00:34:43.693
If there's, a really, singular voice or sort of, um, you know, series of events or something, that's, what I think about when I, when I remember something.
00:34:43.693 --> 00:34:53.063
And so I think that's, you know, I think in, in a monoculture, monoculture world, I think we have to be really sort of diligent about staying true to what we can do best
00:34:53.567 --> 00:35:02.777
Well, you, you mentioned your, your editor and that you got this, your, you know, your book was sold on a revise and rewrite, but it wasn't an easy journey before that, right?
00:35:03.527 --> 00:35:06.027
Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like to go on submission?
00:35:06.286 --> 00:35:08.025
yeah, I mean, it was, it was scary.
00:35:08.085 --> 00:35:15.706
Uh, you know, like, as a journalist, I'm pretty used to, like, pitching ideas and having them shot down or, like, workshopped or, like, torn apart.
00:35:15.706 --> 00:35:17.525
Like, that doesn't really bother me anymore.
00:35:17.545 --> 00:35:30.085
Um, but I think with the fiction it was different in that, um, you know, this was my first time doing it, so I was like, knows if I'm even good at this, um, or if anybody will wanna buy it." Um, and, like, books sign exhibition all the time.
00:35:30.536 --> 00:35:44.476
Um, and so yeah, I mean, it was hard, especially, like, when, you know, we were getting the feedback from people saying like,"You know, we like certain aspects of it, but we just don't know if, like, the, the political satire will sell in the market right now." That...
00:35:44.556 --> 00:35:46.306
it's, like, a pretty big point, right?
00:35:46.565 --> 00:35:49.896
Um, and so there were, like, points where I was like,"Oh my God, is this going to sell?
00:35:49.896 --> 00:35:53.815
Like, what am I going to do?" Um, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's definitely hard.
00:35:53.826 --> 00:36:01.565
And I did the thing where my agent was like,"Okay, do you want me to forward you all of the rejections, or do you just want me to tell you, like, when we had good news?" And I was like,"I can handle it.
00:36:01.606 --> 00:36:03.846
Like, forward me the rejections." And I could not handle it.
00:36:03.856 --> 00:36:04.766
It was, it was very hard.
00:36:06.186 --> 00:36:06.565
That was...
00:36:06.945 --> 00:36:07.655
I was very sad.
00:36:07.655 --> 00:36:10.065
In retrospect, like, maybe I shouldn't have, have done that.
00:36:10.076 --> 00:36:13.525
Um, but yeah, I mean, it sucks.
00:36:13.556 --> 00:36:13.985
There's, like...
00:36:14.186 --> 00:36:21.295
there's no other way to say it unless, like, maybe you have, like, you know, a yes situation where, like, everyone wants your book and, like, wants to pay you a bajillion dollars for it.
00:36:21.306 --> 00:36:26.210
Like, I'm sure, like, that's a s- that's a sick setup, but, like, that was not my experience, so yeah.
00:36:26.445 --> 00:36:28.164
So, so much to look forward to, Kelton.
00:36:28.811 --> 00:36:30.882
Oh my God, yeah, that's just what I was thinking.
00:36:31.014 --> 00:36:31.875
forward to
00:36:32.032 --> 00:36:34.592
I know, I, I, I don't have that stomach.
00:36:34.592 --> 00:36:38.041
I would be like,"Don't tell me about these rejections.
00:36:38.041 --> 00:36:38.621
I'm gonna...
00:36:38.871 --> 00:36:40.512
You handle that on your end."
00:36:41.849 --> 00:36:42.398
That was smart.
00:36:42.398 --> 00:36:54.918
I will say the only good thing about it in retrospect was when I did go back to do this revise and resubmit, I could look at all of the rejections and notice that there was like a cohesive theme around a lot of the feedback that I was getting.
00:36:54.929 --> 00:37:02.298
And so I was like,"Okay, like I, I kind of know like what I have to do here to, um, revise this." So it was helpful like in that sense
00:37:03.342 --> 00:37:04.922
Are you writing another mystery?
00:37:06.914 --> 00:37:24.045
Um, I mean, I would say there's like a mystery element to it, but, what's funny about Murder Bites, and I guess potentially this next thing that I'm writing, is that like, you know, Murder Bites has been billed like as a mystery or like as a cozy mystery, which is like funny to me.
00:37:24.375 --> 00:37:29.144
Um, but in my mind it was never really like about the murder mystery.
00:37:29.144 --> 00:37:35.965
Like it, to me it was always about like the female friendships, um, sort of like Margo's life lesson that just...
00:37:35.974 --> 00:37:38.355
And it just happened to have like a murder in there.
00:37:38.364 --> 00:37:41.914
Um, that was like really more of like a plot vehicle than anything.
00:37:41.914 --> 00:37:46.485
And I, and I feel the same way about, um, about the second book that I'm working on
00:37:47.757 --> 00:37:51.478
Yeah, we talked a lot about genre and, like, getting locked into one.
00:37:51.577 --> 00:38:00.697
Um, so it's interesting when you're going out on submission again, um, to think about, like, who's expecting what from you.
00:38:01.157 --> 00:38:03.887
Uh, I- you didn't get a two-book deal.
00:38:03.887 --> 00:38:07.088
You're sort of like, uh, you, you can go rogue with the next book.
00:38:07.097 --> 00:38:07.617
Is that right?
00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:12.771
Yeah, no two-book deal, so who knows where the wind will take me.
00:38:13.432 --> 00:38:19.643
But it sounds like your editor is l- waiting to see what you're gonna be writing next, right?
00:38:20.702 --> 00:38:22.413
I mean, we'll see what happens.
00:38:22.452 --> 00:38:29.112
Um, I think, you know, I have to, uh, I have to submit it to her in our, via our contract.
00:38:29.163 --> 00:38:32.862
But, like, she could be like,"I don't wanna read this, sorry." So I mean, you just never know what's gonna happen.
00:38:34.202 --> 00:38:34.322
The
00:38:34.355 --> 00:38:34.594
I'm
00:38:34.643 --> 00:38:34.873
weird.
00:38:35.293 --> 00:38:35.913
Publishing is weird
00:38:36.695 --> 00:38:37.505
publishing is weird.
00:38:38.244 --> 00:38:54.322
I'm curious, we talked about this last week with Becca Freeman about kind of the books that we read while we're writing, were there any books that you read while writing Murder Bites that informed that book, or are there any books that you're reading right now that are kind of informing your current project?
00:38:55.231 --> 00:38:55.681
Yeah.
00:38:55.762 --> 00:38:59.902
I read my first Carl Hiaasen book when I just started to work on this book.
00:38:59.922 --> 00:39:00.711
Um, yeah,
00:39:00.789 --> 00:39:00.800
Ah.
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:01.170
Love him
00:39:01.411 --> 00:39:01.771
Me.
00:39:01.972 --> 00:39:03.092
Yo, God, I love him too.
00:39:03.391 --> 00:39:05.731
And it really blew my mind open.
00:39:05.731 --> 00:39:13.211
I loved seeing someone who was so not afraid to like commit to the bit and knew that they could land the plane, you know what I mean?
00:39:13.501 --> 00:39:13.512
Mm-hmm.
00:39:13.512 --> 00:39:17.202
Um, that was just so, inspiring to me.
00:39:17.202 --> 00:39:25.371
And especially he's a journalist who worked at the Miami Herald for years, and he used, his journalism to sort of inform like a lot of the satire and stuff that he wrote, which,
00:39:25.811 --> 00:39:33.172
Yeah, there's a lot of political satire in his books too, and a really strong sense of which is, I would say is similar to Murderface,
00:39:34.030 --> 00:39:34.710
Yeah.
00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:37.780
Well, Carl now is like so rich and famous he can do whatever he wants.
00:39:37.780 --> 00:39:41.449
I, I, I had not l- I have not achieved that status yet.
00:39:41.809 --> 00:39:44.429
So he was a really big influence to me.
00:39:44.489 --> 00:39:50.610
Um, and then Amy Harmon and Kevin Wilson are both just like s- like north stars for me.
00:39:50.610 --> 00:39:54.550
They're like both so weird, so heartwarming, so funny.
00:39:54.949 --> 00:40:09.280
Um, and I just really both admire them for like similar to Carl, having sort of the, um, you know, inner, inner confidence and self-faith to really sort of stick to their oddities and their weirdness and, and know that they can pull it off.
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:11.880
So their novels were big inspirations to me as well.
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:21.161
I think about Kevin Wilson's Nothing to See Here too, because I believe that is a book that he was removed to, like, hole away for, like, a month and just whip out.
00:40:21.831 --> 00:40:28.990
Which I, you know, I'm like,"Oh, God, send me to that, send me to that hole.
00:40:29.010 --> 00:40:30.510
Cover me in the dirt."
00:40:30.813 --> 00:40:30.954
Yeah
00:40:31.681 --> 00:40:32.121
in it.
00:40:32.371 --> 00:40:36.882
It's- I saw him, like maybe two years ago at a book talk, and he was talking about...
00:40:36.882 --> 00:40:43.242
So like he's a professor at Sewanee, and he has kids, and he was like,"You know, when I'm at home, I really wanna be with my kids.
00:40:43.242 --> 00:40:44.152
I wanna focus on my family.
00:40:44.152 --> 00:40:51.802
I wanna focus on my teaching." So what he actually does to write his books is he, like, books an Airbnb for a week and, basically blocks out and, writes the whole thing, and that's, like, when he writes his books.
00:40:51.802 --> 00:41:00.371
And I was like, at the time, I was like, I didn't have kids yet, I was like,"That's crazy." And now I'm like,"Shit, like maybe that's the only way to, actually get anything done." I was like,"Maybe I gotta pull a Kevin.
00:41:01.532 --> 00:41:01.862
Just get
00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:02.090
That's
00:41:02.181 --> 00:41:02.751
I did
00:41:02.809 --> 00:41:07.329
these novels were written by men,'cause their wives were, taking care of their kids.
00:41:07.329 --> 00:41:15.809
And also, by the way, lots of famous writers' wives were their copy editors and were typing up their pages and doing all that shit for them, so
00:41:16.233 --> 00:41:16.853
Amazing.
00:41:16.864 --> 00:41:19.713
Maybe I should, like, make my husband type all my shit up for me.
00:41:19.851 --> 00:41:20.231
There you go
00:41:20.373 --> 00:41:23.643
walk around, like, speaking into, like, a, a voice recorder.
00:41:23.804 --> 00:41:24.744
Like,"Write this up, Tripp."
00:41:25.994 --> 00:41:29.523
Write it up, make my dinner, put the kid to bed.
00:41:30.373 --> 00:41:30.903
Ugh,
00:41:31.402 --> 00:41:46.163
pitched a couple of hotels recently, for like a two-night stay in the off-season around here,'cause I was like,"I need somewhere to write my book and get away from my family and, take nice photographs of your hotel for my, my audience."
00:41:47.385 --> 00:41:48.195
Oh my gosh.
00:41:48.202 --> 00:41:51.413
one has written back yet, but I'm just kind of like,"Come on.
00:41:51.713 --> 00:41:51.932
Come on.
00:41:52.273 --> 00:41:53.152
I know we can do this.
00:41:53.802 --> 00:41:55.222
Mama needs to write a book
00:41:55.833 --> 00:41:57.614
Mama needs to write a book, I feel that.
00:41:57.664 --> 00:42:08.063
Yeah, I sometimes see people like posting these beautiful retreats that they went to and I'm like,"Oh, that's cool." And then I look it up, I'm like,"Oh, they paid like$3,000 to go to this beautiful place in Northern California," right?
00:42:08.063 --> 00:42:09.333
I'm like,"Oh, never mind."
00:42:10.603 --> 00:42:11.063
Yeah
00:42:11.233 --> 00:42:14.094
sit in my smelly local library and just do that instead.
00:42:14.838 --> 00:42:15.068
from
00:42:15.231 --> 00:42:16.762
out to the local libraries.
00:42:16.811 --> 00:42:24.621
I, look, part of, uh, what keeps me having fun while I'm writing is I have one of the tabs in my Google Doc is my acknowledgments page.
00:42:25.192 --> 00:42:25.831
And I've just
00:42:25.954 --> 00:42:26.235
That's so
00:42:26.291 --> 00:42:31.862
put a little, a little, like, X every time I've been to the library to work on this book.
00:42:32.503 --> 00:42:33.043
Yeah.
00:42:33.121 --> 00:42:37.211
like,"Thank you to the Telluride Library," um, 98 times
00:42:37.911 --> 00:42:38.420
Yeah.
00:42:38.501 --> 00:42:39.911
Oh, that's such a nice practice.
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:41.150
That's such a nice thing to do
00:42:41.311 --> 00:42:41.831
mm-hmm.
00:42:41.907 --> 00:42:52.757
I'm nosy, so I love going to the acknowledgments and, like, seeing who someone's, like, agent and editor are, and then it's so funny when people are thanking, like, readers and it's like, Salman Rushdie or like some, like, very famous person.
00:42:52.757 --> 00:42:53.507
I'm like,"All right.
00:42:53.538 --> 00:42:54.128
Okay.
00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:54.500
Yeah.
00:42:54.500 --> 00:42:55.340
All righty
00:42:55.367 --> 00:42:55.827
like always...
00:42:55.867 --> 00:42:56.277
Yeah.
00:42:57.715 --> 00:43:00.565
Oh, to be, you know, rich and well-connected.
00:43:01.302 --> 00:43:01.932
Exactly.
00:43:02.114 --> 00:43:03.264
It would be so nice.
00:43:03.304 --> 00:43:03.744
Yeah.
00:43:04.123 --> 00:43:11.932
I, I wanna know, like, since everybody we have on the show is like, building, a career how are you balancing that right now?
00:43:11.963 --> 00:43:20.693
Like, w- what are you choosing to focus your time on, and, like, where you're like,"Okay, I'm gonna make money from this, but I'm also gonna, like, make a little money from this"?
00:43:22.115 --> 00:43:22.266
Yeah.
00:43:22.536 --> 00:43:27.215
Well, I mean, I have a full-time job, so that is what, where my money comes from.
00:43:27.235 --> 00:43:30.885
And yes, like I mean, I got paid for my book, but let's be real, like no one...
00:43:31.536 --> 00:43:32.356
it wasn't a lot.
00:43:32.675 --> 00:43:36.425
Um, so yeah, so I need, I need the full-time job.
00:43:36.525 --> 00:43:39.815
Um, and like, you know, I like, obviously need it.
00:43:39.835 --> 00:43:42.715
Like, now we have a kid, I have to pay for daycare, mortgage, all of that stuff.
00:43:43.115 --> 00:43:45.695
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's a give and take, right?
00:43:45.695 --> 00:43:46.335
Like, I think...
00:43:47.166 --> 00:43:50.445
think that I would ever really want to be a full-time author.
00:43:50.445 --> 00:44:01.856
I really do like working with other people, and like the collaboration of being a journalist, and, working with an editor closely and all of that, and sort of it keeps you, in the world a bit more than writing does.
00:44:02.235 --> 00:44:17.195
But I mean, I think l- one day if I can sort of like have a portfolio career, I would love to sort of be a journalist and be an author, and maybe teach a little bit, and sort of patchwork things like a little bit but I think it's just sort of figuring out how to get there.
00:44:17.235 --> 00:44:18.235
'Cause you guys work...
00:44:18.326 --> 00:44:21.396
Do you work full time outside of the, the podcast and writing as well?
00:44:21.416 --> 00:44:22.186
Yeah, so I
00:44:22.326 --> 00:44:22.876
Oh, yeah.
00:44:22.925 --> 00:44:23.465
like hard.
00:44:23.550 --> 00:44:24.121
Oh, yes.
00:44:25.016 --> 00:44:25.385
Yeah
00:44:25.610 --> 00:44:30.150
our favorite Norwegian listener told us, um, we work too much.
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:30.860
do too much.
00:44:31.141 --> 00:44:32.001
we do too much
00:44:32.914 --> 00:44:33.543
Yeah.
00:44:33.733 --> 00:44:39.983
You know, well, friendly Norwegian, we do not have like, you know, the healthcare or like the support, yeah,
00:44:40.250 --> 00:44:41.349
social programs
00:44:41.423 --> 00:44:41.704
you do.
00:44:41.949 --> 00:44:42.550
at all.
00:44:42.713 --> 00:44:44.273
Um, yeah.
00:44:44.583 --> 00:44:54.614
Um, but yeah, I mean, I would love to find some way to sort of like maybe one day reorganize the percentage allocation of where things lie, but it's hard.
00:44:54.623 --> 00:45:01.974
It's hard to know how to do that, especially like when you have that corporate job with like the bennies and the paycheck, you know?
00:45:02.231 --> 00:45:02.820
Oh, yeah.
00:45:03.010 --> 00:45:08.791
Does your partner also have like a side hustle that they're like,"I need time to dedicate to this"?
00:45:09.909 --> 00:45:10.070
No.
00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:15.463
I'm laughing Sorry.
00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:16.500
That's so funny.
00:45:18.010 --> 00:45:19.170
Mi- Mimi's turning red.
00:45:19.849 --> 00:45:20.269
Mimi's turning red.
00:45:22.014 --> 00:45:22.873
No, he doesn't.
00:45:23.853 --> 00:45:24.673
God bless him.
00:45:25.583 --> 00:45:26.074
he doesn't.
00:45:26.153 --> 00:45:27.684
Uh, yeah, no.
00:45:27.773 --> 00:45:42.034
He- I will say he's a fabulous cook, and he, I have often told him, he, like, had this idea once of, like, making quiches and selling them at the farmers market, and I was like,"You would be so good at that." But we need to keep him only working so that I can have the extra time.
00:45:42.063 --> 00:45:47.103
I'm like,"That man does not get to have a hobby, because his hobby is supporting me." Sorry.
00:45:48.804 --> 00:45:49.333
Uh,
00:45:49.420 --> 00:45:57.760
It's, I'm always so curious about this'cause, you know, the, the writing time when you have a real job is, like, it's extra time, especially when you have a family.
00:45:58.070 --> 00:46:01.670
And when you're kind of distributing equity and labor within a relationship.
00:46:02.050 --> 00:46:08.661
You know, f- in my household, my husband wants to be a, an alpine expeditionist.
00:46:08.971 --> 00:46:22.791
And so, you know, he's like,"I need to go away for, like, four, four days to go on this, like, climbing trip real quick." And I'm like,"I also need to go away for four days to write about this girl running into her ex-boyfriend in the Caribbean, okay?"
00:46:23.521 --> 00:46:24.081
Yeah.
00:46:24.452 --> 00:46:25.472
Oh my gosh, wow.
00:46:25.472 --> 00:46:33.811
I just got like such anxiety when you said that'cause I was like, I, the first thought that came into my head was like, that's some like shit where you're in the woods for a week and no one can c- like reach you.
00:46:33.811 --> 00:46:34.672
I was like, oh my gosh.
00:46:34.672 --> 00:46:38.882
And like, like you having to take care of the, the children, the family, I was like,"Ah."
00:46:39.994 --> 00:46:44.855
Yeah, I mean, he's away right now he's not doing anything particularly dangerous this time, but
00:46:44.903 --> 00:46:45.284
Uh-huh.
00:46:45.373 --> 00:46:45.713
Yeah
00:46:45.804 --> 00:46:51.224
and I met, we were both ex- extreme athletes to a degree, him more than I.
00:46:51.505 --> 00:46:58.014
And so it was like anytime either of us was out, it was like,"Oh, they might die." And so I always think about that right now.
00:46:58.304 --> 00:47:07.264
Yeah, I'm like,"Well, so I loved you." So like when he's gone and I'm taking care of our child, I'm like,"How would I write if he was dead right now?"
00:47:07.788 --> 00:47:08.327
Oh my God,
00:47:08.364 --> 00:47:12.534
So mm, listen, Ben and I have had this conversation a lot.
00:47:13.635 --> 00:47:18.835
Yeah, so like, know, I'm glad that your husband's hobby is quiches.
00:47:19.385 --> 00:47:19.864
That's-
00:47:20.016 --> 00:47:23.965
hobby is quiches and just doing things I tell him to do.
00:47:23.965 --> 00:47:26.985
I was like,"This poor man." No, I am very lucky.
00:47:26.985 --> 00:47:35.005
He really steps up to, help me find the time to do this, which is, like, super generous and cool of him, just because he knows that I'm, like, a raging biotch when I don't.
00:47:35.005 --> 00:47:39.255
So I think it's always good to, for them to, for them to fear you a little bit.
00:47:40.286 --> 00:47:41.056
fear, you know?
00:47:41.081 --> 00:47:41.512
Yeah.
00:47:42.606 --> 00:47:43.056
Yeah.
00:47:43.231 --> 00:47:43.271
I
00:47:43.467 --> 00:47:55.737
We haven't talked about that too much on the podcast about, like, how do you, balance in a relationship being like,"I need this time for this thing that is making me a very low hourly rate."
00:47:56.789 --> 00:47:57.280
Yeah.
00:47:57.547 --> 00:47:58.907
any rate at all.
00:47:58.967 --> 00:48:00.097
negative hourly rate
00:48:01.206 --> 00:48:01.795
Exactly.
00:48:01.815 --> 00:48:02.835
Yeah, I mean, it's hard.
00:48:02.846 --> 00:48:03.346
It's hard.
00:48:03.465 --> 00:48:06.206
I, I do think, like, we, try to balance it.
00:48:06.206 --> 00:48:10.996
Like, you know, he is training for, like, a marathon right now, and so, like, he will go out and, like, run and do
00:48:11.146 --> 00:48:12.255
That's a hobby.
00:48:12.295 --> 00:48:13.106
That's a thing.
00:48:13.143 --> 00:48:13.643
Abby?
00:48:13.865 --> 00:48:14.206
That's a
00:48:14.206 --> 00:48:14.666
Yeah
00:48:14.706 --> 00:48:15.405
It's a hobby.
00:48:15.436 --> 00:48:15.865
You're right.
00:48:15.916 --> 00:48:19.126
I'm, I'm being, I'm being mean." Um, so he'll go
00:48:19.177 --> 00:48:19.768
You're allowed
00:48:19.806 --> 00:48:28.186
out and run, run away from his family, and then he'll come back, and then, like, I will be like,"Okay, so you were gone for, two hours, so now I can have some time to go write."
00:48:28.391 --> 00:48:29.541
At least it's not golf.
00:48:30.411 --> 00:48:30.891
It could be worse
00:48:31.923 --> 00:48:41.603
He does golf, but he, I told him, I was like, you can't do that shit anymore." I was like,"I'm sorry."'Cause I,'cause I have some of these friends whose husbands are, gone all weekend, like, golfing, and I'm like,"What?
00:48:41.603 --> 00:48:44.074
Like, that's not, that's not okay.
00:48:44.101 --> 00:48:46.331
That's like the beginning of my Gone Girl novel
00:48:48.152 --> 00:48:48.972
Ooh.
00:48:49.012 --> 00:48:49.661
Wait, really?
00:48:49.701 --> 00:48:52.481
I'm like, no, no, but it would be.
00:48:52.884 --> 00:48:54.034
I was like, that could be good.
00:48:54.193 --> 00:48:54.853
I would read it.
00:48:54.873 --> 00:48:55.514
That sounds good.
00:48:55.561 --> 00:48:56.411
Oh my God
00:48:56.648 --> 00:49:09.347
You guys both have little kids, but when they get older, there's a lot of me writing on the weekends and my daughter coming into the garage and,"Hi, Mom." and wanting to s-"I wanna spend time with you.
00:49:09.387 --> 00:49:24.137
Let me sit next to you while you're writing." I'm like,"Go away." And sometimes I s- do say,"Go away, I'm writing," which feels horrible, but Kelton keeps trying to convince me that I'm teaching them that, you know, as a woman you have other things outside of just being a mom.
00:49:24.407 --> 00:49:30.327
So that's my solve when I feel guilty about being mean to my kids when I wanna write by myself.
00:49:30.347 --> 00:49:37.708
But, um, at least my husband is just a workaholic who has a, a gardening hobby, so he's still at the house.
00:49:38.422 --> 00:49:38.961
that's good.
00:49:39.052 --> 00:49:39.532
That is good.
00:49:39.557 --> 00:49:39.847
Yeah
00:49:39.851 --> 00:49:49.262
do like when, like, my husband's like,"I'm gonna go mow the lawn." It's like, okay, he's, he's doing a chore, but it's a chore that allows him to be outside away from all of us while listening to, a podcast.
00:49:49.322 --> 00:49:52.041
And I'm like,"Shit, that looks, like, pretty nice." I was like,"Can I mow the lawn?"
00:49:52.282 --> 00:49:53.052
Can I mow the lawn?
00:49:53.983 --> 00:50:01.202
You just strap that baby to his back, put some headphones on the baby, and just be like,"This is nap time, okay?"
00:50:01.572 --> 00:50:03.172
Oh my God, that's a great idea.
00:50:03.202 --> 00:50:04.041
I should do that.
00:50:04.101 --> 00:50:04.211
I
00:50:04.327 --> 00:50:06.708
And then when he gets older, he can help mow the lawn.
00:50:06.717 --> 00:50:09.438
So like, I'm like,"Go help your dad weed the front yard.
00:50:09.717 --> 00:50:10.307
Go outside."
00:50:10.326 --> 00:50:10.846
For sure.
00:50:10.856 --> 00:50:13.045
Just like give them some chemicals and like get out there.
00:50:13.166 --> 00:50:13.726
Spray.
00:50:13.938 --> 00:50:14.628
some Roundup.
00:50:14.978 --> 00:50:15.797
Have a blast."
00:50:16.235 --> 00:50:20.025
It's like,"See you later." Yeah, that's a good idea.
00:50:20.085 --> 00:50:20.775
I will do that
00:50:21.500 --> 00:50:23.829
Oh, I'm glad we can joke about these things.
00:50:23.869 --> 00:50:24.889
But we are good moms.
00:50:24.889 --> 00:50:28.659
We're good moms really at the end of the day, and, and partners.
00:50:28.969 --> 00:50:29.519
Promise.
00:50:29.715 --> 00:50:30.326
for sure.
00:50:30.476 --> 00:50:32.106
It's, it's, it's hard.
00:50:32.166 --> 00:50:35.885
Everyone's just figuring it out is sort of my, understanding of it all
00:50:36.554 --> 00:50:37.014
Yeah.
00:50:37.114 --> 00:50:38.333
I mean, I'm just mean about it.
00:50:38.333 --> 00:50:39.704
I'm like,"I'm writing to go away.
00:50:39.713 --> 00:50:42.074
This is my time." I kind of have to just demand that.
00:50:42.284 --> 00:50:49.764
And you kind of do, otherwise there's just an assumption of what you're going to do because you are the main caregiver.
00:50:49.813 --> 00:50:53.753
So unless you kind of advocate for yourself and for your time, it can never happen.
00:50:54.483 --> 00:50:55.583
then there, then you get resentful.
00:50:57.096 --> 00:50:57.635
For sure.
00:50:57.675 --> 00:50:58.175
Yeah.
00:50:58.425 --> 00:50:58.786
Yeah.
00:50:58.795 --> 00:50:59.916
We, um...
00:51:00.065 --> 00:51:05.996
I know, that's like something we talk about all the time is like the mental load too, is like, I'm thinking of like all this shit that you don't even think about.
00:51:05.996 --> 00:51:14.085
It's like, okay, we have someone's like birthday party, like I have to go out and get the gift because God knows what you would buy if I sent you to Target to buy this gift.
00:51:14.085 --> 00:51:17.576
You would probably buy something insane for this child, so like I have to do it.
00:51:17.615 --> 00:51:19.115
It's just like all of these things, you know?
00:51:20.181 --> 00:51:21.472
That was literally me this morning.
00:51:21.472 --> 00:51:27.731
I got a call from the school as I was, like, putting my face on after my husband had already left to go drop them off, and it's my daughter.
00:51:28.041 --> 00:51:34.081
"Mommy, today was pajama and stuffy day, and I forgot to put on my pajamas and bring my stuffy.
00:51:34.081 --> 00:51:36.862
Can you bring them to the school?" I was like,"Damn it!"
00:51:38.384 --> 00:51:40.264
Put them in an Uber, send them to our school.
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:44.869
Well, I was gonna go and my, my husband came back and he's like,"I'll take it.
00:51:44.869 --> 00:51:49.269
I'll take it." I'll,'cause I was all like, you know, huffing around the house, throwing the pajamas in the bag.
00:51:49.269 --> 00:51:53.750
Like,"I'm gonna be..." I'm like all angry and he's like,"Just give it to me." And he left and I was like,"Oh, okay, great.
00:51:53.750 --> 00:51:54.650
I have another half hour.
00:51:54.889 --> 00:51:56.760
Awesome." But like,
00:51:56.862 --> 00:51:57.181
See?
00:51:57.329 --> 00:51:57.400
w-
00:51:57.592 --> 00:51:57.702
You
00:51:57.719 --> 00:51:58.909
why couldn't he remember?
00:51:59.041 --> 00:51:59.351
time.
00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:01.679
Well, yeah, through pure fear.
00:52:02.621 --> 00:52:03.342
Yeah, through pure
00:52:03.369 --> 00:52:05.949
why couldn't he know that it was pajama day today?
00:52:06.010 --> 00:52:08.539
Why do I have to keep all of this information in my head,
00:52:08.556 --> 00:52:09.635
Information in your head.
00:52:09.956 --> 00:52:10.496
I know.
00:52:10.826 --> 00:52:11.195
I know.
00:52:11.255 --> 00:52:12.346
It's so hard It's
00:52:12.445 --> 00:52:12.666
hard
00:52:13.025 --> 00:52:14.436
hey, it's great material.
00:52:15.016 --> 00:52:15.346
Great
00:52:15.409 --> 00:52:15.730
you go.
00:52:16.422 --> 00:52:17.282
Strong material.
00:52:17.382 --> 00:52:19.793
I'm already thinking of what I'm gonna write next.
00:52:20.903 --> 00:52:21.164
Yep.
00:52:21.273 --> 00:52:21.634
There you go.
00:52:21.643 --> 00:52:23.864
So you have your golf Gone Girl, Gone Girl golf
00:52:24.391 --> 00:52:33.911
Yeah, I'm, I'm imagining like a, like a Breaking Bad, meets Gone Girl, um, where, uh, the wife turns into a meth dealer while her husband's golfing
00:52:34.775 --> 00:52:35.436
I love it.
00:52:35.585 --> 00:52:35.945
I am,
00:52:35.945 --> 00:52:36.835
He would never know.
00:52:36.916 --> 00:52:37.206
it.
00:52:37.516 --> 00:52:37.896
That would...
00:52:37.925 --> 00:52:41.516
Like, every wife, like the plausible deniability, he would never know.
00:52:42.554 --> 00:52:43.313
Literally never.
00:52:43.735 --> 00:52:44.186
Never.
00:52:45.043 --> 00:52:45.153
All
00:52:45.275 --> 00:52:46.016
Oh, man.
00:52:46.023 --> 00:52:46.494
wait to read it.
00:52:46.684 --> 00:52:46.954
I'm ready
00:52:48.536 --> 00:52:49.186
Speaking of
00:52:49.186 --> 00:52:50.367
the time to write it now
00:52:50.485 --> 00:52:50.786
Yeah.
00:52:51.085 --> 00:52:51.545
Yeah, exactly
00:52:51.715 --> 00:52:57.606
We like to ask our listeners, their three books that they just can't stop thinking about, or the three books that are on your nightstand right now
00:52:59.409 --> 00:53:00.079
Oh, yeah.
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:02.219
Okay, well I am reading Understory right now.
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:02.630
Have y'all read it?
00:53:04.317 --> 00:53:06.277
No, but it's on my queue.
00:53:06.646 --> 00:53:08.137
I'm waiting for it from the bookstore
00:53:08.349 --> 00:53:09.159
recommended that?
00:53:09.322 --> 00:53:09.793
Becca Freeman?
00:53:10.353 --> 00:53:12.063
Becca recommended that last week, yeah.
00:53:12.204 --> 00:53:13.264
Is that Chloe Benjamin?
00:53:13.693 --> 00:53:14.112
Mm-hmm.
00:53:14.324 --> 00:53:14.623
Yeah
00:53:15.373 --> 00:53:17.273
is so good.
00:53:17.574 --> 00:53:18.753
It is so wild.
00:53:18.764 --> 00:53:24.083
I mean, talk about having the faith that you can commit to the bit and stick the landing.
00:53:24.114 --> 00:53:27.313
I'm, like, reading this and I'm like, I cannot believe that she came up with this.
00:53:27.353 --> 00:53:28.873
It's so wild.
00:53:28.884 --> 00:53:38.784
And, like, the amount of detail and, like, research that she must have did, I'm, I'm just like, I'm just simply too lazy to do all of this work, but I'm, like, so glad that she did, and it's, like, very impressive.
00:53:38.813 --> 00:53:40.333
Um, would highly recommend.
00:53:40.664 --> 00:53:42.034
What else have I read this year that I
00:53:42.068 --> 00:53:45.018
This is, listeners, this is the book that's set in Antarctica.
00:53:46.378 --> 00:53:47.068
Mm-hmm.
00:53:47.088 --> 00:53:47.768
Antarctica.
00:53:47.807 --> 00:53:50.407
It has a lot to do about mushrooms.
00:53:50.728 --> 00:53:51.557
Like, the whole...
00:53:51.617 --> 00:53:53.378
It's just, it's wild, but like so,
00:53:53.561 --> 00:53:53.782
Okay
00:53:53.938 --> 00:53:54.208
good.
00:53:54.657 --> 00:53:54.998
Yeah.
00:53:55.057 --> 00:53:57.737
Um, and then what else?
00:53:57.768 --> 00:53:59.958
I, um, loved Alan Ops Out.
00:53:59.967 --> 00:54:04.487
I thought that was, like, so funny and witty and original and just, like, really fresh.
00:54:04.518 --> 00:54:05.847
I really, I really loved it.
00:54:05.918 --> 00:54:06.827
I love Annie Hartnett.
00:54:06.867 --> 00:54:08.967
I've been making my way through the Hartnett verse.
00:54:08.987 --> 00:54:13.617
And I read her first book, Rabbit Cake, a while ago, and it's so good.
00:54:13.657 --> 00:54:15.157
It's really, it's really weird.
00:54:15.168 --> 00:54:17.038
It's really, really beautiful.
00:54:17.077 --> 00:54:23.038
It's, like, about this girl who lost her mother and is trying to, figure out, like how to, you know, move through the grief of it all.
00:54:23.077 --> 00:54:27.047
And it's just like she does such a good job at, like, writing, like, darkly funny things.
00:54:27.137 --> 00:54:30.378
So I would also highly recommend if, if you liked any of her other books
00:54:30.701 --> 00:54:32.041
This has been so fun.
00:54:32.130 --> 00:54:36.621
Mimi, you have a couple more dates on your tour, is that correct?
00:54:36.820 --> 00:54:37.271
Coming up
00:54:38.367 --> 00:54:38.836
Yes.
00:54:38.867 --> 00:54:45.726
I am going to be in Atlanta next week, I think September 30th, Virginia Highlands Books, I'll be there.
00:54:46.117 --> 00:54:56.586
And then I'm doing the Crozet Literary Festival, I wanna say October 24th, which is, outside of Charlottesville, which they have, like, a, a cool lineup of authors, so that'll be a fun time.
00:54:57.016 --> 00:55:05.347
It's hosted by, this small independent bookstore in Crozet called Blue Bird Books, and I think it's, like, maybe, like, the second or third that they're doing it.
00:55:05.356 --> 00:55:06.327
But they have, a pretty cool lineup.
00:55:06.327 --> 00:55:13.907
I'm on a p- panel with, Joe Piazza, all of us are journalists, so apparently we're all gonna talk about, being a journalist and writing books.
00:55:14.286 --> 00:55:21.027
But yeah, I mean, they have, like, a pretty cool, pretty cool lineup, so if anyone's in the, Charlottesville area, you should come check it out.
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:24.769
Tell our listeners where they can find you, where they can get your work
00:55:24.849 --> 00:55:27.119
I'm, on Instagram most often.
00:55:27.139 --> 00:55:35.860
I think I'm I have a very anemic Substack that, like, I, I post on, like, once every you know, 72 months or something like that, so
00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:36.440
Same
00:55:36.619 --> 00:55:37.280
I'll post there.
00:55:37.570 --> 00:55:37.929
Yeah.
00:55:38.030 --> 00:55:46.780
And, yeah, my, website is mimimontgomerywriter.com, has all my tour dates, and then you can buy Murder Bytes, wherever books are sold, but go to your local bookstore and get it there
00:55:47.170 --> 00:55:50.199
Everyone go get it, Murder Bites by Mimi Montgomery.
00:55:50.210 --> 00:55:51.039
It's a great book.
00:55:51.059 --> 00:55:54.929
It's a fun time, and if you like dogs, it's definitely the book for you.
00:55:54.929 --> 00:55:59.460
And Carl, if you're a fan of Carl Hiaasen, then you should read Mimi Montgomery.
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:01.300
my gosh, thank you.
00:56:01.309 --> 00:56:02.019
I appreciate that.
00:56:02.110 --> 00:56:02.480
Go Carl
00:56:03.980 --> 00:56:04.510
All right.
00:56:04.710 --> 00:56:05.469
Thanks so much, Mimi.
00:56:05.469 --> 00:56:06.320
It's been a blast
00:56:06.443 --> 00:56:07.074
Thanks for having me.
00:56:07.074 --> 00:56:07.753
This was awesome
00:56:11.025 --> 00:56:15.326
It's so nice to actually, you know, first of all, Mimi's incredible.
00:56:15.356 --> 00:56:17.306
Everyone should go and get Murder Bites.
00:56:17.306 --> 00:56:18.365
It's available now.
00:56:18.385 --> 00:56:22.826
I started reading it before we interviewed her, and it's so fun.
00:56:22.865 --> 00:56:28.516
And obviously, like, books with dogs in them, how can, how can it miss, you know?
00:56:28.815 --> 00:56:38.766
But it's just so nice to have someone on who y- really understands how hard it is to get to, to get to this point, and I feel very encouraged by her story.
00:56:38.766 --> 00:56:39.465
I don't know about you
00:56:40.536 --> 00:56:43.416
Yeah, I, I really loved Murder Bites.
00:56:43.425 --> 00:56:52.666
It's just kind of unhinged and delightful, and it's nice when you come across a book that you're like,"What the fuck?" And then you're just, like, on for the ride.
00:56:53.036 --> 00:56:54.525
So hi- highly recommend.
00:56:55.405 --> 00:57:03.965
and now yeah, of course, now every time we talk to an author I, like, wanna just go back to my book and, like, make edits and changes and, like, get in there and get dirty.
00:57:03.965 --> 00:57:09.076
So I'm so glad to keep making friends with people like Mimi.
00:57:09.476 --> 00:57:11.076
We're having a lot of friends this season.
00:57:11.076 --> 00:57:12.876
I feel like the friend vibe is strong.
00:57:13.005 --> 00:57:14.646
It, it f- it feels nice
00:57:15.025 --> 00:57:15.936
It does feel nice.
00:57:15.936 --> 00:57:18.885
It's friends, friends of the pod, friends of friends of the pod.
00:57:18.945 --> 00:57:27.795
Um, and I, yeah, it's just, it's a nice little community we're building here, and if you're listening, you're part of it, so thank you for being here and for being our friends.
00:57:27.815 --> 00:57:42.916
Um, all right, Kelton, speaking of getting your hands dirty and getting back to work, what is this week gonna look like for you after you clean your, the cat piss off of your stove top?
00:57:43.181 --> 00:57:46.472
I have a business trip up,
00:57:46.827 --> 00:57:47.398
Oh, that's right.
00:57:47.398 --> 00:57:47.938
So do I.
00:57:47.978 --> 00:57:49.068
Oh, wait, we're gonna be on...
00:57:49.097 --> 00:57:51.217
We're not gonna have an episode next week, listeners.
00:57:51.927 --> 00:57:52.467
Sorry.
00:57:52.833 --> 00:57:55.034
Yeah, unless we find some other time to record it.
00:57:55.844 --> 00:57:56.594
know, who knows?
00:57:56.824 --> 00:57:57.313
Who knows?
00:57:57.324 --> 00:57:57.653
We could
00:57:57.657 --> 00:57:58.068
I was like,
00:57:58.233 --> 00:57:58.414
out
00:57:58.668 --> 00:58:04.507
"Oh, shit, I also have a business trip next week." Thanks for reminding me
00:58:04.934 --> 00:58:19.233
so, but because of w- where this business trip is and where I live, most people for this particular client are just flying in in the morning and flying out at night, but that's not a reality when you live in the middle of nowhere.
00:58:19.543 --> 00:58:30.403
So I'm flying in the night before, and then staying the night after, which means I will have two nights in a hotel where I have nothing to do but write.
00:58:31.403 --> 00:58:31.994
I'm...
00:58:32.134 --> 00:58:41.454
And, you know, Ben was like,"Oh, you should take yourself out to dinner and go see a movie and, like, enjoy yourself," and I was like,"Who are you married to?
00:58:41.744 --> 00:58:48.856
I'm obviously going to work the entire time." But, you know, the novel is not really work in that way.
00:58:48.856 --> 00:58:50.876
It's something I'm really genuinely excited about.
00:58:50.887 --> 00:59:03.347
So I know that both Monday night and Tuesday night I will get to be in a hotel bed watching HGTV, working on my novel, I'm excited about that.
00:59:03.516 --> 00:59:09.177
So in terms of goals, do think I'm just gonna keep on track with, like, edit five chapters.
00:59:09.586 --> 00:59:13.487
I think that was a good, like, goal.
00:59:13.856 --> 00:59:28.117
It keeps it loose enough where when I run into structural issues or I'm, like, finding inconsistencies in, like, how I've named things or stuff like that, that I can go back and, and make those changes without being like,"Oh, no.
00:59:28.126 --> 00:59:32.706
What do I do?" so I, I think, I think that works for me.
00:59:32.737 --> 00:59:43.567
I also, I already have this Sunday's newsletter written, so I'm like,"Okay, I'm locked and loaded on that for a little bit." yeah, I'm gonna stick with just editing novel.
00:59:43.577 --> 00:59:44.257
We are...
00:59:44.407 --> 00:59:48.567
Oh, and we'll just say, I'm gonna send you the first four-ish chapters.
00:59:49.447 --> 00:59:49.896
Nice.
00:59:50.217 --> 00:59:50.547
Okay.
00:59:51.786 --> 00:59:52.246
Done.
00:59:52.976 --> 01:00:07.577
I am not as ambitious as you on work trips'cause I feel like by the end of the day, by the time I get back to my hotel room, I'm just brain dead, and I can't do extra work.
01:00:08.617 --> 01:00:13.907
So my goal for the next week is to really...
01:00:14.697 --> 01:00:20.327
I mean, this'll be even before I leave for the trip,'cause I leave on Tuesday morning,
01:00:20.893 --> 01:00:21.253
Mm-hmm.
01:00:21.496 --> 01:00:26.416
and, I have to turn in my next packet to my mentor on the 30th.
01:00:26.626 --> 01:00:30.297
So I don't really even have next week to work on it.
01:00:30.306 --> 01:00:34.376
So between now and, Monday night, I have to finish my packet.
01:00:34.376 --> 01:00:37.996
I have to edit it, get it cleaned up, and send it over to my mentor.
01:00:38.016 --> 01:00:39.797
So that's, my big goal.
01:00:40.177 --> 01:00:54.806
My secondary goal is something that I've kind of been giving myself a really hard time about, which is I really feel like I need to get this first 10 pages of Parasocial cleaned up.
01:00:55.666 --> 01:00:57.237
I hate them.
01:00:58.197 --> 01:00:58.847
Really?
01:00:59.967 --> 01:01:02.487
I just feel like I've over...
01:01:02.496 --> 01:01:03.347
What's the term?
01:01:03.347 --> 01:01:05.666
Like, I've over-kneaded the dough.
01:01:05.697 --> 01:01:07.617
It's very similar to what you were saying.
01:01:07.657 --> 01:01:14.947
I've looked at it so many times that I am sick of it, and I just don't know if I, I can get it to a place where I'll feel good about it again.
01:01:15.507 --> 01:01:20.237
Obviously, like, I've written and rewritten this first chapter so many times,
01:01:20.610 --> 01:01:20.621
Mm-hmm.
01:01:21.047 --> 01:01:24.416
and by the time you're in the second, everything just kind of like goes.
01:01:24.737 --> 01:01:25.567
It's not that...
01:01:25.697 --> 01:01:37.016
It's just that there's so much information that has to be preloaded for you to understand the world that I'm building, that there's a lot of exposition, and I do feel like, I feel like I...
01:01:37.027 --> 01:01:49.487
Some of the feedback, well, the one feedback that I got from that stupid agent who got canceled for doing stupid shit online, who had requested three pages of my manuscript and said it was exposition heavy like scarred me.
01:01:50.126 --> 01:01:51.157
So I don't know what to do.
01:01:51.186 --> 01:01:54.867
I don't know what to do, and I just feel like I need to, I need to query this novel.
01:01:54.896 --> 01:01:58.987
I feel like it is a disservice not to, and I just don't...
01:01:59.407 --> 01:02:02.836
I need to figure out what I'm doing with these first 10 pages
01:02:03.146 --> 01:02:07.956
Do you think and, and let me know if you've already done this.
01:02:07.976 --> 01:02:12.277
I know you've done this in the past, but you've overworked this dough, okay?
01:02:12.277 --> 01:02:25.786
Like, you kinda need to hand it off, I think, to other, someone else to be like,"Is this dough still usable?" you just need to, like, we have a bunch of people in our network that you could just be like,"Listen, I'm not looking for a full edit on these.
01:02:25.847 --> 01:02:27.387
I've overworked this dough.
01:02:27.516 --> 01:02:29.547
I can't see it for what it is.
01:02:29.626 --> 01:02:33.907
Do you think that this is, like, a good 10 pages?" Like, are you compelled to read it?
01:02:34.297 --> 01:02:37.347
Just like a, a light read of a quick 10 pages.
01:02:37.347 --> 01:02:38.536
Like, do you wanna read more?
01:02:38.567 --> 01:02:42.266
Not to agents, but, like, could you send it to Mark Sarvas?
01:02:42.277 --> 01:02:48.347
Like, I, l- I just like, we have friends that you could just be like,"I've queried this book before.
01:02:48.556 --> 01:02:51.527
I was sort of successful, and now I'm doing it again.
01:02:51.556 --> 01:02:53.657
I'm struggling with, like, what that looks like.
01:02:53.686 --> 01:03:01.306
I've read it too many times." Would you just read these 10 pages to be like,"Is this exposition heavy?" Or are you curious?
01:03:02.074 --> 01:03:09.844
I'm to the point where I wanna scrap all of the edits that I made and go back to the original first chapter that I wrote, and start over.
01:03:11.394 --> 01:03:17.514
I, I, I do think that I could reach out to someone and ask, but then the ask is not gonna be like...
01:03:18.114 --> 01:03:21.025
They're, they're gonna come back with notes, and then I'm gonna have to work on it again.
01:03:21.025 --> 01:03:25.025
That's
01:03:25.489 --> 01:03:27.509
The, the other option is you query it
01:03:27.625 --> 01:03:27.644
the thing.
01:03:27.644 --> 01:03:27.655
Um
01:03:27.829 --> 01:03:28.179
is.
01:03:28.469 --> 01:03:30.969
So, like, no matter what, you are working on it,
01:03:31.382 --> 01:03:31.773
I know
01:03:32.268 --> 01:03:36.539
to find a way, because I've read these 10 pages, know?
01:03:37.398 --> 01:03:38.528
I like them.
01:03:39.469 --> 01:03:43.068
And so that's where I feel like it's not about...
01:03:43.068 --> 01:03:51.568
I d- I think you, if you were to reach out to people, you have to really caveat that you are not looking for edits.
01:03:51.588 --> 01:03:53.148
You're looking for a gut check.
01:03:55.018 --> 01:03:58.068
Is there a world where you would query it as is?
01:03:58.898 --> 01:04:00.039
'Cause you have really,
01:04:00.226 --> 01:04:02.246
When I did that, I did that.
01:04:02.277 --> 01:04:05.126
I mean, I'm thinking back to, the original first chapter.
01:04:05.577 --> 01:04:18.186
And in trying to create a really compelling first 10 pages, I cut out things and moved things around whereas the first time I wrote the first chapter, it was, linear, you know?
01:04:18.347 --> 01:04:21.447
And I'm just terrible at writing things that, jump around in time.
01:04:21.496 --> 01:04:22.726
It's not my skillset.
01:04:23.467 --> 01:04:24.206
So I don't know.
01:04:24.427 --> 01:04:29.766
I don't, I, I, I'm not confident about the edit that I made, I guess is what I'm saying.
01:04:30.047 --> 01:04:38.777
Mean, o- obviously that I'm trying to figure out how you could in-'cause you're either injecting confidence or you're rewriting it
01:04:39.592 --> 01:04:39.983
Ja.
01:04:41.021 --> 01:04:41.170
And
01:04:41.313 --> 01:04:41.643
Ja
01:04:41.771 --> 01:04:54.521
I, I just said,"I'm a little, like, why don't you try injecting a little confidence first?" There's, like, a whole list of people from, like, scary to not scary at all whose opinions you could just throw in the trash, okay?
01:04:54.601 --> 01:04:58.851
So, like, it's just what do you want to be an action item on this?
01:04:58.891 --> 01:04:59.320
Because it's...
01:05:00.911 --> 01:05:03.541
You have a lot of writing to do in your life,
01:05:04.195 --> 01:05:04.425
I know.
01:05:04.525 --> 01:05:05.014
Well
01:05:05.041 --> 01:05:08.570
you are beating yourself up about parasocial, so I just kinda
01:05:08.721 --> 01:05:09.300
I know
01:05:09.351 --> 01:05:11.880
I want that to alleviate up for you
01:05:12.297 --> 01:05:17.737
It just feels like so much work to just be left on the shelf, you know?
01:05:18.907 --> 01:05:19.706
Th- this book.
01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:21.380
is saying to leave it on the shelf.
01:05:21.577 --> 01:05:22.157
No, I know.
01:05:22.157 --> 01:05:31.126
So that's why, that's why I'm beating myself up because I'm like, I have to do something with this, and I don't know how to put one foot in front of the other.
01:05:31.226 --> 01:05:50.547
So what I was gonna say is in this next week, since once I get my packet turned in, I can probably spend some time thinking about parasocial, and what I wanted to do was like go back and reread the first chapter pre, yeah, pre fucking with it.
01:05:53.516 --> 01:06:05.036
And see how I feel about it, and then read the version that I sent you, the futzed with one, the over, over-kneaded dough one, and see how I feel about that, and try and find a path forward.
01:06:06.157 --> 01:06:12.356
Okay, so you're rereading the original first chapter of Parasocial and then the needed dough version.
01:06:13.987 --> 01:06:15.856
All right, you're just, you're just reading.
01:06:16.731 --> 01:06:17.101
Yeah
01:06:17.237 --> 01:06:17.717
anything.
01:06:17.777 --> 01:06:19.166
That's all your task is.
01:06:19.197 --> 01:06:20.686
There's no beating yourself up.
01:06:20.686 --> 01:06:22.467
You just have 20 pages to read
01:06:23.387 --> 01:06:23.757
Yeah.
01:06:25.166 --> 01:06:26.257
And your four chapters.
01:06:26.798 --> 01:06:27.978
And my four chapters, of
01:06:28.217 --> 01:06:28.496
Yeah,
01:06:28.648 --> 01:06:30.009
Yeah, that'll be fun.
01:06:30.237 --> 01:06:31.396
Yes, yes.
01:06:32.577 --> 01:06:33.206
Hopefully
01:06:33.289 --> 01:06:34.009
ruin my life.
01:06:34.059 --> 01:06:35.958
You could ruin my first 10 pages.
01:06:37.432 --> 01:06:38.702
I would never do that to you.
01:06:39.670 --> 01:06:41.210
Oh, I hope, I hope though...
01:06:41.451 --> 01:06:45.791
God, it is hard when you go back and reread it,'cause you're like,"This is trash."
01:06:46.213 --> 01:06:47.313
Well, that's how I felt.
01:06:47.463 --> 01:06:48.902
Like, that's literally how I felt.
01:06:48.902 --> 01:06:50.753
I was like,"I fucking hate this."
01:06:51.746 --> 01:07:04.246
I still, like, love my characters, but the, yeah, it's just hard to figure out how to present them and, like, I- one thing I've been reading, I've been reading a ton of Annabel Monaghan.
01:07:04.246 --> 01:07:14.916
I feel like I bring her up every episode, but she's very good layering in many stakes, and I know that I am missing a stake.
01:07:15.987 --> 01:07:20.956
Like, there's, like, five seats at my table, and only four of them have been served a stake.
01:07:22.887 --> 01:07:35.166
I need to figure out what that, what that next element is and, and I don't know that I need it, like, even mentioned in those first few pages, but know that I, I need it.
01:07:35.657 --> 01:07:39.867
So, that is in the back of my mind, thinking about how that kind of factors in.
01:07:41.016 --> 01:07:44.356
Well, I'll keep it in consideration when I read your pages then.
01:07:44.449 --> 01:07:44.518
Good.
01:07:45.367 --> 01:07:45.726
Okay
01:07:45.778 --> 01:07:48.699
Well, everybody, it's time to slide into our DMs.
01:07:48.748 --> 01:07:56.619
If you're not willing to do that, you should absolutely slide into our reviews leave us, four and a half stars.
01:07:57.704 --> 01:07:57.715
Kelton
01:07:59.909 --> 01:08:03.708
Leave us five stars, and share our podcast wide and far.
01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:10.659
We are all our favorite writers' favorite writing podcast, so, get it out there for us.
01:08:10.688 --> 01:08:11.489
That would be awesome
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:13.079
It would really help us out.
01:08:13.108 --> 01:08:21.618
And in the meantime, if you want to slide into our inbox, you can email us at officialpenpalspod@gmail.com.
01:08:21.618 --> 01:08:25.099
Follow us on all the social networks at penpalspod.
01:08:25.368 --> 01:08:34.009
You can follow Kelton at keltonkin on Instagram or read her now back in circulation Substack at shangrilogs.substack.com.
01:08:34.448 --> 01:08:39.599
And, you can follow me at krisserin on TikTok or read my Substack at krisserin.substack.com.
01:08:39.599 --> 01:08:41.788
I promise I'll publish something relatively soon.
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:44.009
But yeah, we'd love to hear from you.
01:08:44.588 --> 01:08:48.939
if you guys wanna see what a good hair day I'm having, you could have watched this whole thing on YouTube.
01:08:49.364 --> 01:08:50.135
It's true.
01:08:50.614 --> 01:08:53.404
And I actually uploaded the video, I didn't know you could do this.
01:08:53.444 --> 01:08:56.074
I uploaded the entire episode on, Spotify.
01:08:56.744 --> 01:09:01.234
So the video version of our podcast is currently on Spotify as well
01:09:02.341 --> 01:09:02.951
Exciting.
01:09:03.011 --> 01:09:05.551
And maybe you'll see an appearance by a kitten or a cat
01:09:05.795 --> 01:09:06.435
Or a dog.
01:09:06.507 --> 01:09:07.177
You never know.
01:09:07.217 --> 01:09:08.037
You never know here.
01:09:08.221 --> 01:09:09.011
Or a child.
01:09:09.252 --> 01:09:10.462
You never know what's gonna happen.
01:09:11.162 --> 01:09:11.962
All right, everyone,
01:09:12.417 --> 01:09:13.238
happy writing
01:09:13.572 --> 01:09:14.292
happy writing