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S4 E4: From Poverty to Physician: Dr. Betty-Ann Bernard on Women in Medicine, Leadership, & Purpose

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Intro Welcome to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers—where leadership is grounded in behavior, guided by dignity, and designed for change. I'm your host, Dr. Esther Bubb. Let's dive into today's episode. Interview WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.880 --> 00:00:18.740 Dr. Esther Bubb: So, Betty, and thank you so, so much for being on the show with me today. I'm just so happy and excited, you know, just because we grew up together, we're friends, and then obviously professionals, even though different fields, but there's some overlap, so I'm really looking forward to what I'm going to learn from you today. How are you doing today? 2 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:22.489 Betty Ann bernard -John: Very good. Thank you for having me. 3 00:00:23.340 --> 00:00:24.260 Dr. Esther Bubb: Wonderful. 4 00:00:24.350 --> 00:00:33.790 Betty Ann bernard -John: I hope you can learn something from me. I mean, I don't think there's anything… it's not a teaching class, so we'll see how it goes. I'm sure I'll learn from you, too. 5 00:00:33.940 --> 00:00:50.900 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, absolutely, we'll definitely see how it goes. So let's start, Betty, and we're talking about, like, your roots, your identity, and your early aspirations growing up. So, we've known each other, Betty, since our school days in Grenada, and so when you reflect on your early years, what experiences and people 6 00:00:50.900 --> 00:00:59.510 Dr. Esther Bubb: In your opinion, right, first shaped your desire and your decision to become a doctor, and what helped you believe that the path was possible? 7 00:01:01.110 --> 00:01:04.119 Betty Ann bernard -John: Back to the early days. 8 00:01:05.209 --> 00:01:05.859 Dr. Esther Bubb: That's gonna happen. 9 00:01:05.860 --> 00:01:14.950 Betty Ann bernard -John: happy memories attached to that, and then there are some not-so-happy memories, because when I remember some of the conditions that I grew up in. 10 00:01:14.950 --> 00:01:15.370 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 11 00:01:15.370 --> 00:01:18.120 Betty Ann bernard -John: Though, I do see, I usually do see. 12 00:01:18.430 --> 00:01:26.300 Betty Ann bernard -John: I'm grateful, right? Yeah. I'm grateful that I was born into this family, I'm grateful that I grew up the way I grew up. 13 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:27.170 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 14 00:01:27.170 --> 00:01:32.539 Betty Ann bernard -John: Honestly, looking at other people, looking at their situation, comparing, and… 15 00:01:32.720 --> 00:01:38.640 Betty Ann bernard -John: I usually say, you know what, I'm glad how I am now, and I think the way I grew up. 16 00:01:39.010 --> 00:01:45.769 Betty Ann bernard -John: helped shape me, so I'm glad I grew up how I grew up, and not the other way, because I don't think I would have been the same person. 17 00:01:46.370 --> 00:01:50.300 Betty Ann bernard -John: I'm not sure if much people know, I come from a very poor family. 18 00:01:50.600 --> 00:01:50.960 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 19 00:01:50.960 --> 00:01:55.880 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't get the impression that they think so, because people have made a comment. 20 00:01:56.110 --> 00:02:00.330 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I have to be like, hello, do you know me? You know where I grew up? 21 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:02.440 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 22 00:02:02.440 --> 00:02:07.630 Betty Ann bernard -John: But my mother had a lot to do with the 23 00:02:08.030 --> 00:02:12.040 Betty Ann bernard -John: in terms of education, from early on, I realized 24 00:02:12.350 --> 00:02:27.870 Betty Ann bernard -John: I do not want to be in the same position as an adult, as I grew up, in terms of our financial situation, even the place where we grew up. I mean, I grew up in a, how you call them? The Janet House? 25 00:02:28.270 --> 00:02:29.430 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes. 26 00:02:29.430 --> 00:02:31.830 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. It was a very small house. 27 00:02:32.710 --> 00:02:36.460 Betty Ann bernard -John: as far as I remember, it was a building with 4 rooms, basically. 28 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.869 Betty Ann bernard -John: first room you enter, that's where we would usually call the sitting room. 29 00:02:40.870 --> 00:02:41.300 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 30 00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:58.829 Betty Ann bernard -John: I had one little couch or chair. Then, opposite that room, you had a small room where my grandma used to stay. Okay. You go to the other section, the area we use as a kitchen, but I remember my aunt used to sleep in that area on the floor. Okay. And then you had another bed. 31 00:02:58.930 --> 00:03:11.590 Betty Ann bernard -John: another room where my mom, my dad, and myself used to stay. I mean, the conditions were deplorable, there are holes, I used to sleep on the floor, there were holes right there. And from earlier, I said, I don't want to be growing up in that. 32 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:15.669 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, my mom used to always push the education. 33 00:03:15.830 --> 00:03:16.240 Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm. 34 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:26.089 Betty Ann bernard -John: So we were always ready for school, we had all that we needed. She used to literally… when she gets home, you have to have all your homework done by the time she gets home. 35 00:03:26.090 --> 00:03:26.490 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 36 00:03:26.490 --> 00:03:37.899 Betty Ann bernard -John: She has to pick us up in our work, so she knew we had spelling the next day, you had to be able to spell. You get your lips if you spell one word wrong, and you go back in the corner, revise all of them, and come back. 37 00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:38.360 Dr. Esther Bubb: I'm coming. 38 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:39.929 Betty Ann bernard -John: I know all of them. 39 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:41.020 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right? 40 00:03:41.020 --> 00:03:46.990 Betty Ann bernard -John: She used to look over our homework, make us make corrections, and mind you, my mom didn't go secondary school, but she. 41 00:03:46.990 --> 00:03:47.430 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right.
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42 00:03:47.430 --> 00:03:48.870 Betty Ann bernard -John: Very intelligent. 43 00:03:48.870 --> 00:03:49.580 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 44 00:03:49.810 --> 00:03:57.070 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, I always had that from preparing me go all the way up to secondary school. She always used to push education. 45 00:03:57.290 --> 00:04:14.660 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't remember when exactly I decided to become a doctor, but I know she always said from early… Yeah. …to say, I want to be a doctor. The earliest I remember wanting… knowing that I intentionally wanted to be a doctor, there was a time I went to visit the family doctor. 46 00:04:14.930 --> 00:04:15.430 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 47 00:04:15.430 --> 00:04:17.079 Betty Ann bernard -John: My early teens. 48 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:20.389 Betty Ann bernard -John: And it was a male doctor, Dr. Klein, got her. 49 00:04:20.390 --> 00:04:21.730 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Yeah. 50 00:04:21.730 --> 00:04:31.300 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I remember he had to stom my chest. Yeah. And I had to open my shirt. Now, during the preteen times, you know, you're a bit shy, and there. 51 00:04:31.300 --> 00:04:31.770 Dr. Esther Bubb: This month. 52 00:04:31.770 --> 00:04:34.909 Betty Ann bernard -John: And telling me to open my shirt, although my mom was there. 53 00:04:34.910 --> 00:04:35.340 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 54 00:04:35.340 --> 00:04:39.109 Betty Ann bernard -John: But I was very nervous, and I remember saying to myself afterwards. 55 00:04:39.690 --> 00:04:42.270 Betty Ann bernard -John: If I'm feeling so scared. 56 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:42.900 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 57 00:04:42.900 --> 00:04:52.450 Betty Ann bernard -John: a little bit timid with a male doctor, maybe there need to be more female doctors, because back in those times, I don't remember ever hearing of any female doctor. Most of the. 58 00:04:52.450 --> 00:04:52.830 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 59 00:04:52.830 --> 00:04:54.510 Betty Ann bernard -John: Well, guys, Dr. Gabriel. 60 00:04:54.510 --> 00:04:55.210 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 61 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.270 Betty Ann bernard -John: Dr. Klein, Dr. Kelly's is just guys. 62 00:04:58.270 --> 00:04:58.650 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 63 00:04:58.650 --> 00:05:08.330 Betty Ann bernard -John: So then and there, I said, you know what, I think I'm gonna be a doctor. I remember saying, I want to be an OBGYN. Definitely, a female doctor for females. 64 00:05:08.330 --> 00:05:09.120 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 65 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:13.889 Betty Ann bernard -John: as far as I remember. In terms of the reality of it happening. 66 00:05:14.960 --> 00:05:21.029 Betty Ann bernard -John: It was kinda… I had the dream, but I was never 100% sure I would get to do it, because one… 67 00:05:21.030 --> 00:05:21.650 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 68 00:05:21.960 --> 00:05:24.289 Betty Ann bernard -John: My mom is working in a nutbank station. 69 00:05:24.290 --> 00:05:24.690 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 70 00:05:24.690 --> 00:05:25.840 Betty Ann bernard -John: fisherman. 71 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:40.990 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I came from a poor family with no links. Back in the day, if you had a little lynx, probably you could get through with something. Yeah. Lo and behold, when I was in secondary school, almost finishing, I have an uncle who used to work in agriculture. 72 00:05:41.210 --> 00:05:43.469 Betty Ann bernard -John: I've never forgotten Uncle Peter. 73 00:05:43.790 --> 00:05:44.260 Betty Ann bernard -John: Nice. 74 00:05:44.490 --> 00:05:54.750 Betty Ann bernard -John: I remember he come… I think he passed by, and he told my mom, the government is giving scholarships to go to Cuba. That's when they first reopened the Cuba Scholarship Program. 75 00:05:54.750 --> 00:05:55.120 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 76 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:56.370 Betty Ann bernard -John: 9 to 7. 77 00:05:56.780 --> 00:06:00.000 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I remember him saying, 78 00:06:00.150 --> 00:06:09.750 Betty Ann bernard -John: I go bring a form for you, make sure she fills up, and she could get a chance to go. And I remember after I left, I said to myself, well, what about him? He seems so excited. 79 00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:10.289 Dr. Esther Bubb: I don't. 80 00:06:10.290 --> 00:06:17.179 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't have no links, my mother don't have no links. Only people who have links could get through. So, honestly, I never thought about it. 81 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:17.960 Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm. 82 00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:19.119 Betty Ann bernard -John: The time passed. 83 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:19.910 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 84 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:22.499 Betty Ann bernard -John: And then the deadline went. 85 00:06:23.460 --> 00:06:23.920 Dr. Esther Bubb: Remember? 86 00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:28.719 Betty Ann bernard -John: A day he passed in on the road, and he called, oh, they bring in the farm? And mommy said, no! 87 00:06:29.420 --> 00:06:33.440 Betty Ann bernard -John: He said no word. He intentionally came back, he bought the. 88 00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:33.790 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 89 00:06:33.790 --> 00:06:35.100 Betty Ann bernard -John: Let me pull it up. 90 00:06:35.490 --> 00:06:35.850 Dr. Esther Bubb: to me. 91 00:06:35.850 --> 00:06:37.019 Betty Ann bernard -John: And he brought it in. 92 00:06:37.170 --> 00:06:48.489 Betty Ann bernard -John: Now, that happened, and I didn't even think it was a possibility still. I said, okay, doesn't hurt to fill up the farm. And then… well, I was in Tamsici at the time. 93 00:06:48.490 --> 00:06:48.920 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 94 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:53.079 Betty Ann bernard -John: We had finished, and then they had a teacher's program going on, because. 95 00:06:53.080 --> 00:06:53.710 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 96 00:06:53.710 --> 00:06:57.410 Betty Ann bernard -John: After school, I think most people applied to the banks, and I also. 97 00:06:57.410 --> 00:06:57.970 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 98 00:06:57.970 --> 00:07:00.819 Betty Ann
bernard -John: for teaching. Yeah. That's what it used to be mostly. 99 00:07:00.820 --> 00:07:01.930 Dr. Esther Bubb: Exactly. 100 00:07:01.930 --> 00:07:05.659 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, my mind, I would either be a banker in Grenville. 101 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:06.839 Dr. Esther Bubb: Well, it's working. 102 00:07:06.840 --> 00:07:07.250 Betty Ann bernard -John: Cool. 103 00:07:07.390 --> 00:07:08.470 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 104 00:07:08.470 --> 00:07:12.690 Betty Ann bernard -John: I would be teaching. At that time, too, Ms. Britton, I don't know if you remember. 105 00:07:12.690 --> 00:07:13.990 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yeah. 106 00:07:14.460 --> 00:07:19.539 Betty Ann bernard -John: She was principal of St. Rose, Mount Rose, the one in Mount Trose. 107 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:20.820 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yep. 108 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:29.040 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I remember she said, I remember she became principal of that school, so I know she had like me. 109 00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:29.520 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 110 00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:34.560 Betty Ann bernard -John: She and Mommy used to talk, so I figured, you know what, I might get a job up there anyways. 111 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:35.320 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 112 00:07:35.320 --> 00:07:41.689 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, after time CC, during the summer program, they had some teaching program, introduction to teaching. 113 00:07:41.690 --> 00:07:42.020 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 114 00:07:42.020 --> 00:07:42.609 Betty Ann bernard -John: I was doing. 115 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:43.310 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. That's cool. 116 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:58.220 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I remember one day walking, it was a Friday, walking through college, and all who I meet was like, can you name me on the radio? You need to contact the ministry. I'm like, what? What's going on here? 117 00:07:58.220 --> 00:07:58.610 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 118 00:07:58.610 --> 00:08:01.020 Betty Ann bernard -John: That probably was a teaching job, maybe. 119 00:08:01.020 --> 00:08:01.820 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 120 00:08:01.960 --> 00:08:04.999 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, when several people told me that, I was like, okay. 121 00:08:05.230 --> 00:08:08.370 Betty Ann bernard -John: Let me call who. They didn't hire me, I had to go and find a payphone. 122 00:08:08.370 --> 00:08:09.820 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 123 00:08:09.820 --> 00:08:24.219 Betty Ann bernard -John: I think I went in the office and asked for a phone call, and I called that. He was home, and he was like, yes, I don't know how to meet you. It came out on the radio, you get through the scholarship, and you have to bring in all the paperwork today. Deadline was the same day. 124 00:08:24.220 --> 00:08:24.780 Dr. Esther Bubb: That's true. 125 00:08:26.140 --> 00:08:29.510 Betty Ann bernard -John: Well, I don't have no paperwork, because I didn't do anything. 126 00:08:29.510 --> 00:08:30.460 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right? 127 00:08:30.460 --> 00:08:37.009 Betty Ann bernard -John: The good thing is, I think Mommy had done a passport for us already. Okay. Although we don't want money to travel, I don't know. 128 00:08:37.010 --> 00:08:37.520 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 129 00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:37.970 Betty Ann bernard -John: Dad. 130 00:08:38.659 --> 00:08:41.059 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… 131 00:08:41.479 --> 00:08:49.329 Betty Ann bernard -John: But certificate, all these things are in Grenville. I'm in St. George's, yes, I'm close to the Ministry, but, I mean. 132 00:08:49.469 --> 00:08:58.639 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yes. So, I think I ended up walking up to the ministry and finding out what would I do, because I just got a message, and the lady had me… 133 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:17.769 Betty Ann bernard -John: call home, get my father to look for my passport, and believe me, them times their mommy didn't know where everything is. I didn't even know if Daddy knew where it was. He was so mommy at work. He found the passport number, he gave it to me, I gave it to the lady, and she told me on Monday morning, first thing, bring in all the paperwork. 134 00:09:17.969 --> 00:09:20.389 Betty Ann bernard -John: And that's how I ended up with myself. 135 00:09:20.390 --> 00:09:20.910 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 136 00:09:20.910 --> 00:09:22.049 Betty Ann bernard -John: to go to Cuba. 137 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:23.140 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 138 00:09:23.140 --> 00:09:25.499 Betty Ann bernard -John: Oh boy. 139 00:09:25.680 --> 00:09:28.739 Dr. Esther Bubb: I love that story, Bethianne. 140 00:09:28.740 --> 00:09:31.660 Betty Ann bernard -John: It is, yes. A lot of people chipped in. 141 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:32.440 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 142 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:34.190 Betty Ann bernard -John: we get to Cuba. 143 00:09:34.190 --> 00:09:34.640 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 144 00:09:34.640 --> 00:09:38.690 Betty Ann bernard -John: Mrs. Linda Johnson, that was Dr. Johnson's wife at the time. 145 00:09:38.690 --> 00:09:39.570 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 146 00:09:39.570 --> 00:09:54.789 Betty Ann bernard -John: She was a family friend also, so she told mommy to have me come check her one day. I went to her house, she put my stick down, she told me what Cuba is different from Grenada. She even… I didn't even know Cuba had cold temperature. She told me I. 147 00:09:54.790 --> 00:09:55.120 Dr. Esther Bubb: Sorry. 148 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:59.529 Betty Ann bernard -John: to get jackets and stuff to go with. She actually gave me 3 jackets to go with. 149 00:09:59.530 --> 00:09:59.920 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 150 00:09:59.920 --> 00:10:05.900 Betty Ann bernard -John: my tree jackets for Cuba. And, she gave me a little rundown of what to expect. 151 00:10:06.380 --> 00:10:07.240 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… 152 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:22.310 Betty Ann bernard -John: I left for Cuba, I got the call, that was the ending of August, September, and I left for Cuba October that year, first time I ever traveled. Yeah. First
time ever leaving home, leaving all my friends. Oh, you were at the airport? Did you? Yeah. 153 00:10:22.310 --> 00:10:23.869 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, yes. 154 00:10:23.870 --> 00:10:25.500 Betty Ann bernard -John: I just cried, and then I left. 155 00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:27.849 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep. Yep. 156 00:10:28.150 --> 00:10:29.570 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah, I remember that. 157 00:10:29.570 --> 00:10:30.310 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 158 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:34.639 Betty Ann bernard -John: So… That's the trip down memory lane. 159 00:10:34.950 --> 00:10:39.940 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, that's… that's, your story, Bettian, has so much… 160 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:47.110 Dr. Esther Bubb: of courage, like, determination, like, strength, you know, like, the family, right? That support around you? 161 00:10:47.110 --> 00:11:02.380 Dr. Esther Bubb: And so I think you sharing that story is so great, because sometimes all we can see is who we see now, but sometimes, you know, knowing the story and what people went through, like, it's encouraging to others, right? Like, I can do that too, you know? So, so I really 162 00:11:02.380 --> 00:11:12.220 Dr. Esther Bubb: I took a lot. Yeah, yeah. I took a lot away from that, that, Tetian, and I'm sure our listeners would too, so I really appreciate you sharing that. It's very valuable. 163 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:28.439 Dr. Esther Bubb: So, speaking of value, Bethian, in all of that, right, but just in your life in general, what personal values from growing up? I mean, I think I could pull a lot out of that, but I'm gonna let you answer, right? What personal values from growing up in Grenada continue to guide your work as a physician and a leader today? 164 00:11:30.030 --> 00:11:34.359 Betty Ann bernard -John: Oh, I think… All the personal values, you know. 165 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:35.160 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay, yeah. 166 00:11:35.160 --> 00:11:36.200 Betty Ann bernard -John: Goodness, right? 167 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:37.610 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, yes. 168 00:11:37.610 --> 00:11:40.900 Betty Ann bernard -John: Because, I mean, you have personal growth, wanting. 169 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:41.470 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 170 00:11:41.470 --> 00:11:43.050 Betty Ann bernard -John: this situation. 171 00:11:43.050 --> 00:11:43.500 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 172 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:49.060 Betty Ann bernard -John: It's something I always stood by, personal growth, even to this day, when you. 173 00:11:49.060 --> 00:11:49.490 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 174 00:11:49.490 --> 00:11:50.250 Betty Ann bernard -John: boat. 175 00:11:50.380 --> 00:11:58.580 Betty Ann bernard -John: teens being so bad, and people turning out to be so bad, and people like, oh, as parents, I always ask. 176 00:11:58.870 --> 00:12:02.059 Betty Ann bernard -John: If I could look at my situation, because from early. 177 00:12:02.380 --> 00:12:03.070 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 178 00:12:03.270 --> 00:12:08.930 Betty Ann bernard -John: My family, they were poor. All the females on my mother's side. 179 00:12:09.190 --> 00:12:11.709 Betty Ann bernard -John: And if I think back, at least one of my… 180 00:12:11.880 --> 00:12:17.400 Betty Ann bernard -John: I know of one of my father's family relatives. All of them had teenage pregnancy. 181 00:12:17.510 --> 00:12:27.510 Betty Ann bernard -John: All of them was pregnant before 20, all of them, and most of them, especially on my mom's side, remain in the same situation. And from early, I always said. 182 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.879 Betty Ann bernard -John: I am not gonna be a statistics. 183 00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:31.250 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 184 00:12:31.250 --> 00:12:35.779 Betty Ann bernard -John: to get pregnant at teenage, and I stood by that. 185 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:38.869 Betty Ann bernard -John: I didn't have a boyfriend. 186 00:12:39.500 --> 00:12:41.790 Betty Ann bernard -John: I intentionally not had any boyfriends. 187 00:12:41.790 --> 00:12:42.800 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, true. 188 00:12:42.800 --> 00:12:54.609 Betty Ann bernard -John: my secondary education. Even when I got to Cuba, it was… you could almost say I had a boyfriend when I had 20 years, because I had always put it in my head. School, school, school, no boys to get caught. 189 00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:56.970 Dr. Esther Bubb: I like that. Okay. 190 00:12:56.970 --> 00:12:58.199 Betty Ann bernard -John: The personal go-off. 191 00:12:58.200 --> 00:12:58.890 Dr. Esther Bubb: Get to me! 192 00:12:58.890 --> 00:12:59.730 Betty Ann bernard -John: higher education. 193 00:12:59.730 --> 00:13:00.070 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 194 00:13:00.070 --> 00:13:01.410 Betty Ann bernard -John: moving forward. 195 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:03.440 Betty Ann bernard -John: Perseverance. 196 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.169 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 197 00:13:05.170 --> 00:13:09.999 Betty Ann bernard -John: Perseverance, because… The limited financial resources you have. 198 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:10.680 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 199 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.240 Betty Ann bernard -John: They're seeing other people with their things. 200 00:13:14.350 --> 00:13:17.359 Betty Ann bernard -John: The hardship of leaving to go to Cuba, a whole new. 201 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:17.950 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 202 00:13:17.950 --> 00:13:24.090 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. The challenges I met there, the language barrier, I mean, I knew a little bit of Spanish before I. 203 00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:24.520 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 204 00:13:24.520 --> 00:13:26.109 Betty Ann bernard -John: Remember our Spanish days in… 205 00:13:26.270 --> 00:13:28.450 Dr. Esther Bubb: Convent. Yes, convent, yes. 206 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:32.340 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know, at one point, I was planning to drop Spanish. 207 00:13:32.570 --> 00:13:38.550 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I can't remember if it was Ms. Francis or whoever told me, no, don't drop it. 208 00:13:38.550 --> 00:13:54.500 Betty Ann bernard -John: stay
with it, because I was going to drop it and do social studies, and I thought, I don't like it, I don't want to do it, and she said, no. She said, if you really want to do social studies, you could do it on the side, and then she forced me to do the extra subject, I remember that. I didn't like it at first, but believe me, it felt great when I got. 209 00:13:54.500 --> 00:13:55.849 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yes. 210 00:13:55.850 --> 00:13:58.519 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah, so the little Spanish did help a lot. 211 00:13:59.140 --> 00:14:07.430 Betty Ann bernard -John: And then, it's a new culture, new people, you're away from home, you're missing your family, communications was not like then, so it took a lot. 212 00:14:07.430 --> 00:14:07.760 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 213 00:14:07.760 --> 00:14:10.199 Betty Ann bernard -John: But perseverance to get what you need? 214 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:10.940 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 215 00:14:11.190 --> 00:14:23.369 Betty Ann bernard -John: All the values, the core values you learn as a family. My family was always close-knit, my father is always about family, gatherings, and all of that. Yeah. 216 00:14:23.910 --> 00:14:26.290 Betty Ann bernard -John: I learned about fairness. 217 00:14:26.730 --> 00:14:27.220 Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm. 218 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:29.729 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know where you've been, so where. 219 00:14:29.730 --> 00:14:30.110 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 220 00:14:30.110 --> 00:14:31.260 Betty Ann bernard -John: the others… 221 00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:37.849 Betty Ann bernard -John: And the empathy that goes with it. You put yourself… I'm able to put myself in people who are less fortunate. 222 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.809 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. To try and understand where they come from. 223 00:14:40.950 --> 00:14:45.619 Betty Ann bernard -John: And use that to better help them. At least these are just a few. 224 00:14:45.910 --> 00:14:46.250 Dr. Esther Bubb: mention. 225 00:14:46.250 --> 00:14:48.600 Betty Ann bernard -John: But believe in me, everything… 226 00:14:49.180 --> 00:14:49.580 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 227 00:14:49.580 --> 00:14:53.030 Betty Ann bernard -John: together, all the core values that I know. Yeah. 228 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:57.590 Betty Ann bernard -John: Filter into my profession and my life every day. 229 00:14:57.590 --> 00:14:58.830 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 230 00:14:58.830 --> 00:15:21.349 Dr. Esther Bubb: I like that you talked about perseverance, and then I want to segue into women in medicine and breaking barriers, because to me, that whole thing encapsulates what you talked about, right? Because you talked about that thought in your head from a young girl, like, I want to see people like me in medicine. I want females like me to be comfortable, right? And I think that has a lot to do with perseverance, but I also think of it, and like, we always say to people. 231 00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:43.679 Dr. Esther Bubb: whatever it is you want to be,
say it, speak it, you know, believe it. And then at some point, right, you know, it'll just manifest itself. So, saying all of that, you had this early idea from early on, didn't really believe, you know, because of financial situation, it would happen, right? But you're stuck in there. So, as a woman pursuing medicine today, Bethian, what barriers or biases do you encounter, did you encounter, and how do you navigate them? 232 00:15:44.620 --> 00:15:55.610 Betty Ann bernard -John: I think at the… at the time that I entered medicine, Drew, around that time, is when you found that a lot of… there was a shift in society norms. 233 00:15:55.850 --> 00:15:57.060 Betty Ann bernard -John: Where… 234 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:04.489 Betty Ann bernard -John: around that time, a lot of the roles that you usually use to grow up, like I said, when I was a child, was mostly rules. 235 00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:17.469 Betty Ann bernard -John: Around that time, there were more females integrating into… there was this change that more females were doing, so I never really had any stigma or barrier in terms of being a female doctor. I never had to encounter it. 236 00:16:18.090 --> 00:16:19.600 Betty Ann bernard -John: Where I studied. 237 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.200 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 238 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:33.340 Betty Ann bernard -John: Cuba, they encourage everybody, everybody has free tertiary education, so almost every Cuban you meet, believe you me, they have completed university and they have a degree. And there were a lot of females, there were a lot of male equal. 239 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:42.379 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, I can't say that I had any barrier. If I have to say any barrier or challenge I had to come up with, it had nothing to do with gender. 240 00:16:42.380 --> 00:16:42.860 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 241 00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:48.729 Betty Ann bernard -John: when I got back to Grenada, when we got back to Grenada, remember back then, we just started the whole. 242 00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:49.130 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 243 00:16:49.130 --> 00:16:57.540 Betty Ann bernard -John: training program. So, most of the people who were at the hospital were people who would have been trained abroad, or training SGU. 244 00:16:57.540 --> 00:16:57.870 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 245 00:16:57.870 --> 00:17:12.439 Betty Ann bernard -John: But aside stigma with a tendency to the person who are in charge of the doctors and stuff, tending to more favor, or so it seemed to us at the time, yes, experience is your teacher, that it most favored the SU students. 246 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:13.170 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 247 00:17:13.310 --> 00:17:22.830 Betty Ann bernard -John: And how did we overcome that? We as the Cuban students, we knew, we realized what was happening, but we were able to put what we learned and our practice. 248 00:17:23.500 --> 00:17:27.929 Betty Ann bernard -John: Hills eventually showed them that, hey, listen. 249 00:17:28.030 --> 00:17:47.519
Betty Ann bernard -John: the Cuban-trained doctors are doing so well, especially in the practical part, and then eventually we overcome… we overcame that stigma. In addition to they were taking in more of us, because more of us were going and coming back, and you have your Grenadian-trained professionals. So a lot of the interns that came back were mostly Grenadian, mostly. 250 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:48.070 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 251 00:17:48.070 --> 00:17:59.009 Betty Ann bernard -John: that kind of overcame that stigma, but other than that, I've never really had any barrier or anything that I had to say, like, oh, there's a stigma that, oh, you're a female doctor, you better stay in your lane. Never really. 252 00:17:59.010 --> 00:18:14.249 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay, okay. Well, I'm happy to hear that, but I'm also able to hear that you… the Cuban-trained doctors were able to come together, right, and demonstrate their skills. I really like that. Yes, yes, yes. Wonderful. And obviously, you're a great doctor, so thank you for all you do. 253 00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:14.980 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep. 254 00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:36.819 Dr. Esther Bubb: You're very welcome. So, on that note, still sticking with, like, women, what advice would you give to young women in Grenada and across the Caribbean, Bettian, or anyone actually listening to this, who aspire to careers in medicine or other traditionally challenging fields? You know, when I spoke with my brother, we talked about civil engineering, like, it's just mostly male, you know, so even fields like that. So, whether it's medicine, whatever it is, what advice do you have for them? 255 00:18:39.580 --> 00:18:47.499 Betty Ann bernard -John: Any young person I meet, my advice thing, and then again, it goes back to my core values. If I can't do it, you can do it. 256 00:18:47.500 --> 00:18:47.880 Dr. Esther Bubb: If you're. 257 00:18:47.880 --> 00:19:00.029 Betty Ann bernard -John: want it, then you want to put in the work. Once you put in the work, you would reap the benefit, and you can be anything you choose to be. There's nothing about, oh, it's a male job anymore, and you see that more and more every day. 258 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:17.089 Betty Ann bernard -John: Most times, whatever you put your mind to do, it's gonna entail hard work. Medicine is hard work. You have to study a lot, you have to read the books. I mean, most times you hear about university life, and you hear about the partying part most of the time. You know, you hear about all those. 259 00:19:17.090 --> 00:19:18.090 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes. 260 00:19:18.090 --> 00:19:19.180 Betty Ann bernard -John: IT's and the. 261 00:19:19.180 --> 00:19:20.710 Dr. Esther Bubb: I mean… 262 00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:22.970 Betty Ann bernard -John: I did have parts of that also, but… 263 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:24.140 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 264 00:19:24.140 --> 00:19:26.510 Betty Ann bernard -John: Balance the book. 265 00:19:26.510 --> 00:19:27.000 Dr.
Esther Bubb: Yes. 266 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:37.059 Betty Ann bernard -John: Make sure that you put your foot… and once you're dedicated, you're motivating, and that's what you really want, you can achieve it, especially in this day and age where everything is at your fingertips. 267 00:19:37.060 --> 00:19:38.410 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 268 00:19:38.780 --> 00:19:44.469 Betty Ann bernard -John: There's nothing to stop you. For people who want to study medicine, who are Grenadians. 269 00:19:44.470 --> 00:19:44.910 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 270 00:19:44.910 --> 00:19:48.839 Betty Ann bernard -John: because of the way the health system is now in Grenada. 271 00:19:48.840 --> 00:19:49.290 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 272 00:19:49.290 --> 00:19:57.470 Betty Ann bernard -John: and you have so much limited resources, you wouldn't be pushed, you wouldn't get to be at your optimal in this day and age, if you understand what I'm saying. 273 00:19:57.470 --> 00:19:58.090 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, I… 274 00:19:58.090 --> 00:20:02.600 Betty Ann bernard -John: So I would say to them, it doesn't mean that you don't study medicine. 275 00:20:02.600 --> 00:20:02.950 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 276 00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:08.190 Betty Ann bernard -John: Go ahead, study your medicine, but be prepared that you may want to work outside if you are. 277 00:20:08.190 --> 00:20:08.550 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 278 00:20:08.550 --> 00:20:13.289 Betty Ann bernard -John: enjoy the full benefit of everything, and not necessarily remain in Grenada. 279 00:20:13.580 --> 00:20:14.790 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay, okay. 280 00:20:15.040 --> 00:20:30.959 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. Those are great words of wisdom, you know, keeping an open mind, right? Keeping an open mind, yes, yes. So, let's go a little bit behind the diagnosis, Bethian, right? So, what moments in your work have taught you the importance of listening? Like. 281 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:46.579 Dr. Esther Bubb: just beyond their surface. Like, for example, someone comes in with a curt, a bruise on the face, right? You know, like, what are you hearing? What are they not saying, right? Or, what should I really be listening for? What has your experience taught you about that importance, right, of listening beyond the surface to understand the human story behind what is presented? 282 00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:55.539 Betty Ann bernard -John: This… The ability to listen beyond, it comes with time. 283 00:20:55.860 --> 00:20:56.260 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 284 00:20:56.260 --> 00:20:58.210 Betty Ann bernard -John: It definitely comes with time. 285 00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:05.589 Betty Ann bernard -John: I think… to an extent, my roots, where I grew up, how I grew up. 286 00:21:06.280 --> 00:21:11.040 Betty Ann bernard -John: have a part to play in my personal experience with listening beyond. 287 00:21:11.850 --> 00:21:17.619 Betty Ann bernard -John: And there are a lot of stigmas that tend to interfere also and cause you not to listen 288 00:21:17.810 --> 00:21:19.240 Betty Ann bernard -John: Initially beyond. 289 00:21:19.390 --> 00:21:34.940 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yes. There are a few workshops I recently did that shows that I still do have a little bias sometimes, and I need to work on that. Okay. But, throughout my medical career, there are a lot of times when, I must say, I'm happy that I can pick it up now. 290 00:21:35.620 --> 00:21:38.850 Betty Ann bernard -John: to do that, better known than when I first started. 291 00:21:38.850 --> 00:21:39.550 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 292 00:21:40.060 --> 00:21:44.059 Betty Ann bernard -John: The first time, when you asked that question, and I think back. 293 00:21:44.300 --> 00:21:44.840 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 294 00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:48.879 Betty Ann bernard -John: First time there's an incident, the first time that I intentionally realized. 295 00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:49.420 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 296 00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:59.880 Betty Ann bernard -John: some things are not exactly what they are. I mean, probably I always knew, but as a young house officer, when I newly started in Guineyard. 297 00:22:00.040 --> 00:22:06.510 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. You know, there were a lot more teenagers coming in with incomplete miscarriages, incomplete abortions. 298 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:07.080 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 299 00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:10.960 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I remember… sometimes you hear… 300 00:22:11.070 --> 00:22:16.250 Betty Ann bernard -John: Like, it's not just me, other staff members would be like, oh god, another young girl I came, they can't learn 301 00:22:16.590 --> 00:22:18.370 Betty Ann bernard -John: The legs closed and whatnot. 302 00:22:18.570 --> 00:22:22.209 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… You realize I'm a talker, so when I'm… 303 00:22:22.210 --> 00:22:22.630 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 304 00:22:22.630 --> 00:22:23.990 Betty Ann bernard -John: admissions. 305 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:24.690 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 306 00:22:24.690 --> 00:22:30.800 Betty Ann bernard -John: I try to make people feel comfortable, so I might just go down to their level A. How are you doing? What going on? Yeah. 307 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:37.930 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, what happened? And I remember a time we were chatting, and this young girl opened up, and she was like. 308 00:22:38.670 --> 00:22:50.379 Betty Ann bernard -John: I didn't intentionally get pregnant, you know. You don't understand. Her grandmother was telling her that she should go out there with this older guy, because he helps them financially. 309 00:22:50.660 --> 00:23:01.469 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, because he had been financially, she was encouraging the relationship, she got pregnant. That particular one didn't throw her child, as most people, when they see teenagers coming, they think. 310 00:23:01.470 --> 00:23:01.840 Dr. Esther Bubb: Good morning. 311 00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:06.959 Betty Ann bernard -John: determination. She didn't intentionally, she just
happened to miscarriage, whether it was a blessing or a curse. 312 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.430 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 313 00:23:07.430 --> 00:23:14.700 Betty Ann bernard -John: And she came in, and there she is, all fearful, thinking about all that's going on. Everybody's judging, and I realized… 314 00:23:14.810 --> 00:23:17.350 Betty Ann bernard -John: Sometimes you just have to dig deeper. 315 00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:18.220 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 316 00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:26.160 Betty Ann bernard -John: So that's just one, but there are many. There are people who… a young girl who came in for symptoms that didn't really match. 317 00:23:26.350 --> 00:23:39.289 Betty Ann bernard -John: And when I questioned further, I realized it's just a simple thing that she was home depressed, she had fallen out of school at 13, and she was just home. Apparently, she, around the time she came in, she had applied 318 00:23:39.460 --> 00:23:43.619 Betty Ann bernard -John: to Nulo to see if she could get into the hair thingy. 319 00:23:43.830 --> 00:23:44.230 Dr. Esther Bubb: Hmm. 320 00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:53.929 Betty Ann bernard -John: they didn't respond to her, so she was just there, and I realized she was starting to get depressed. Yeah. And then sometimes she tried to see what she could do to help with them. 321 00:23:54.570 --> 00:24:01.309 Betty Ann bernard -John: Just recently, a lady came in with anxiety symptoms. She didn't know, she said she having chest pain, and she came in. 322 00:24:01.410 --> 00:24:06.590 Betty Ann bernard -John: And when I asked, and I realized it was anxiety, I told her, and I'm like. 323 00:24:06.690 --> 00:24:11.560 Betty Ann bernard -John: So what do you think causing me to get a chest pain? When exactly? And from there, I realized. 324 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:21.449 Betty Ann bernard -John: She and her husband was having some… well, they have been having issues, it started escalating, and like I told her, I guess with… I said to her, well, I guess… 325 00:24:21.620 --> 00:24:24.960 Betty Ann bernard -John: With everything you're hearing about how many women so far has died. 326 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.370 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 327 00:24:25.370 --> 00:24:32.500 Betty Ann bernard -John: from gender-based violence, I said to her, I guess, probably a thing in your head, and you're probably scared now, even. 328 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:33.160 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 329 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.390 Betty Ann bernard -John: That he might end up to that, because she claimed he never hit her. 330 00:24:36.620 --> 00:24:37.220 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 331 00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:38.830 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't know how true that is, I didn't. 332 00:24:38.830 --> 00:24:39.210 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 333 00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:56.650 Betty Ann bernard -John: fully believe it, but I said all of that is what is triggering you. I can't tell you what to make, what decisions you need to make, because I even suggested Thompson,
but she was already doing that. Okay. After when she told me that, I was like, well, you're working, because if you're doing Comsten, and you're all the same book. But I didn't say that out loud. 334 00:24:56.650 --> 00:24:57.450 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right, right. 335 00:24:57.650 --> 00:25:05.920 Betty Ann bernard -John: okay, you already started, but you have to make a decision if you want to continue. And you know, you try to guide them and help them. 336 00:25:06.110 --> 00:25:06.450 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 337 00:25:06.450 --> 00:25:08.580 Betty Ann bernard -John: As best as you can. Once you pick up. 338 00:25:08.580 --> 00:25:08.960 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 339 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:10.650 Betty Ann bernard -John: Depart. Yeah. 340 00:25:10.790 --> 00:25:12.130 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. Listen. 341 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:22.100 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, Bethian. It's, you know, that caring, right, that compassion, that for me, like, just seeing everybody as a human, you know what I mean? 342 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.299 Betty Ann bernard -John: Try because I would like the seat. 343 00:25:24.300 --> 00:25:25.350 Dr. Esther Bubb: We would like the same. 344 00:25:25.350 --> 00:25:26.999 Betty Ann bernard -John: to the people that I care about. 345 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:35.370 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, and not assuming and judging, right? Just, like, tabula rasa. Just a clean slate. This is a new patient. I've never met this person before, right? 346 00:25:35.370 --> 00:25:39.070 Betty Ann bernard -John: I'm not saying I don't still do it, whether I do it internally, most 347 00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:42.909 Betty Ann bernard -John: I would do it externally, but I… it's something I've realized from research. 348 00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:43.450 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 349 00:25:43.450 --> 00:25:45.839 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I still have a lot of work that. 350 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:46.520 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 351 00:25:46.520 --> 00:25:49.449 Betty Ann bernard -John: you try not to judge at all, at all, at all. 352 00:25:49.450 --> 00:25:49.840 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 353 00:25:49.840 --> 00:25:50.680 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, eventually. 354 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:51.040 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 355 00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:52.439 Betty Ann bernard -John: Probably I'll get there. 356 00:25:52.440 --> 00:26:09.330 Dr. Esther Bubb: No, but you made a good point. We all do it, but I think the most important point you made, Bettian, is that reflection. Like, you're constantly reflecting, right? So, like, you're like, alright, I'm identifying, I'm doing this, I'm having this thought, you know, what can I change? So, we're all… it's all of us, Betien, but, like, I think the fact that you're even saying it. 357 00:26:09.330 --> 00:26:14.889 Dr. Esther Bubb: is huge, you know what I mean? Like, you're actively talking about, you know, how you learned and how your experience has shaped you. 358 00:26:14.890 --> 00:26:31.939 Dr. Esther Bubb: So, in addition to that, Betsy, and, like, in your work, even in my work too, right, there are so many stories. People are going through, like, trauma, traumatic experiences, things like that, and so we often carry their stories with us, good, bad, or indifferent, right? So, how have difficult cases, Betsy, and shaped your views on, like, humility? 359 00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:45.540 Dr. Esther Bubb: uncertainty, like, lifelong learning, and how do you personally process those experiences while continuing to serve others? And I'm thinking so much more… so much, Betty, and in terms of, that it doesn't start to impact you. Like, you're not taking it on, you know? 360 00:26:47.070 --> 00:26:50.529 Betty Ann bernard -John: I mean, the question came up. 361 00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:53.009 Betty Ann bernard -John: And it's not the first time I'm asked. 362 00:26:53.340 --> 00:26:58.359 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. And I don't know if I have a really good answer about that. It's not that… 363 00:26:59.270 --> 00:27:03.770 Betty Ann bernard -John: I'm not seeing any physical impact, per se. Okay. 364 00:27:04.250 --> 00:27:07.180 Betty Ann bernard -John: But… Do I deal with it? 365 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.010 Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm. 366 00:27:08.010 --> 00:27:09.070 Betty Ann bernard -John: For example. 367 00:27:09.510 --> 00:27:16.020 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know, I work in OBGYN for a lot of years, and that's where I had most of my impact. Now, it's not as… 368 00:27:16.540 --> 00:27:24.760 Betty Ann bernard -John: terrible, the difficult cases where I am now as it was then. So, you would have, for example. 369 00:27:25.190 --> 00:27:27.720 Betty Ann bernard -John: My first maternal death. 370 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:28.580 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 371 00:27:28.580 --> 00:27:32.880 Betty Ann bernard -John: The first time a mother died, because it's not often. 372 00:27:33.070 --> 00:27:33.430 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 373 00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:34.480 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… 374 00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:42.390 Betty Ann bernard -John: It was all of a sudden, it was on call, they call you about the patient, she was there behaving right. Actually, it turned out that she had a bleed. 375 00:27:43.230 --> 00:27:46.110 Betty Ann bernard -John: She died. I was on call tonight. 376 00:27:47.070 --> 00:27:54.520 Betty Ann bernard -John: I called out my consultant, we dealt with the issue, and after that, I was expected to continue the rest of the shift. 377 00:27:54.810 --> 00:27:55.340 Dr. Esther Bubb: Hmm… 378 00:27:55.340 --> 00:28:01.859 Betty Ann bernard -John: So… That happened, it's like, you put this aside, that one patient now, next patient, on to the next. 379 00:28:02.080 --> 00:28:03.880 Betty Ann bernard -John: when I had… 380 00:28:04.290 --> 00:28:21.139 Betty Ann bernard -John: people giving birth. People give birth to stillbirth, people give birth during the late process, baby die. You have those who you know
they come in, the baby's already dead, you have to deal with that, tell them the diagnosis, figure out how you go about it. Even… 381 00:28:21.230 --> 00:28:25.250 Betty Ann bernard -John: On the other side, in the gyne ward, where you have patients coming in. 382 00:28:25.250 --> 00:28:25.590 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 383 00:28:25.590 --> 00:28:27.510 Betty Ann bernard -John: With cancer, all those things. 384 00:28:27.670 --> 00:28:28.160 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 385 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:34.719 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… I mean, it has always been… You deliver a dead baby. 386 00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:40.899 Betty Ann bernard -John: in half times, I go, like, especially if it happened during the process, so you had a labor, and the 387 00:28:41.260 --> 00:28:45.529 Betty Ann bernard -John: make it… And you'll have to explain to the mother. 388 00:28:45.810 --> 00:28:53.150 Betty Ann bernard -John: You do it, you do what you have to do, you go. There are times I went to the bathroom, I cried, because you try not to cry in front of the patient. 389 00:28:53.150 --> 00:28:53.850 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 390 00:28:53.850 --> 00:28:55.500 Betty Ann bernard -John: Little T are gonna come down. 391 00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:02.960 Betty Ann bernard -John: You go, you go to the bathroom, you cry about it, and then you go back to the living room and you continue your job. 392 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.290 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. Yeah. 393 00:29:04.290 --> 00:29:06.910 Betty Ann bernard -John: Because that's what's expected of you. 394 00:29:06.910 --> 00:29:07.420 Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm. 395 00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:09.989 Betty Ann bernard -John: what? I think after a while. 396 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:12.590 Betty Ann bernard -John: I became a little bit… should I say dumb? 397 00:29:12.870 --> 00:29:14.820 Dr. Esther Bubb: Oh, yeah, yeah, it happens. 398 00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:16.459 Betty Ann bernard -John: It just became, like, routine. 399 00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:16.800 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 400 00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:21.550 Betty Ann bernard -John: I think you know about this case. My sister. 401 00:29:21.550 --> 00:29:22.720 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes. 402 00:29:23.040 --> 00:29:24.670 Betty Ann bernard -John: Who had a stillbirth. 403 00:29:24.670 --> 00:29:25.370 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 404 00:29:25.650 --> 00:29:30.100 Betty Ann bernard -John: She came in, she delivered. At the time she came in, we didn't know the baby was dead. 405 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:30.760 Dr. Esther Bubb: Cheers. 406 00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:36.779 Betty Ann bernard -John: During the delivery process, I remembered I, like, you know, she came in all of a sudden, everything happened. When she came. 407 00:29:36.780 --> 00:29:37.240 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 408 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:43.410 Betty Ann bernard -John: fully dilated, brought her across, started a process, and then I remember saying, guys, we didn't do a fetal heart. 409 00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:51.169 Betty Ann bernard -John: Granted, I think the nurse who brought her from Princessary, she was transferred, knew there was not a fetal heart, but didn't say anything. 410 00:29:51.170 --> 00:29:52.010 Dr. Esther Bubb: Hmm. 411 00:29:52.010 --> 00:30:02.159 Betty Ann bernard -John: What I thought strange was, in reflection, usually when Princess Alice comes with a patient to transfer, they give us the patient, we take over, and then they leave. 412 00:30:02.450 --> 00:30:03.070 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 413 00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:10.770 Betty Ann bernard -John: That particular nurse, I mean, she's a friend of ours, so I guess when she stayed at the time, I didn't think it was anything, but in reflection. 414 00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:11.600 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 415 00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:14.730 Betty Ann bernard -John: She stayed for the delivery, and I thought it odd. 416 00:30:15.020 --> 00:30:15.570 Dr. Esther Bubb: Mmm. 417 00:30:15.570 --> 00:30:23.729 Betty Ann bernard -John: is afterwards, when I asked, hey, we didn't check a fetal heart, can we document a fetal heart? And my coworker went, and he was 418 00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:28.759 Betty Ann bernard -John: anything, and I'm between my sisters, like, trying to do this delivery and. 419 00:30:28.760 --> 00:30:29.160 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 420 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.670 Betty Ann bernard -John: And my co-worker is looking at me, and like… 421 00:30:34.590 --> 00:30:35.020 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 422 00:30:35.020 --> 00:30:38.480 Betty Ann bernard -John: And then and there, I knew we were gonna get a dead baby. 423 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:38.880 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 424 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.400 Betty Ann bernard -John: I couldn't tell her that. 425 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:41.210 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 426 00:30:41.210 --> 00:30:42.040 Betty Ann bernard -John: time. 427 00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:42.870 Dr. Esther Bubb: You're right. 428 00:30:42.870 --> 00:30:51.999 Betty Ann bernard -John: I look at the nurse, and the nurse is whispering to another nurse that she think there was a decreased fetal heart, or something to do with the fetal heart. 429 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:52.680 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 430 00:30:53.600 --> 00:30:58.139 Betty Ann bernard -John: So here I am now, and that was in the peak of COVID, when COVID was just. 431 00:30:58.140 --> 00:30:58.900 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 432 00:30:58.900 --> 00:31:07.029 Betty Ann bernard -John: the day before they shut down the hospital, and I remember the baby born, And the baby didn't cry. 433 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:07.610 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 434 00:31:07.610 --> 00:31:11.769 Betty Ann bernard -John: I had to tell my sister no. The baby's dead, her husband was there with her. 435 00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:12.360 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 436 00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:16.189 Betty Ann bernard -John: From there, I had to go call my parents. 437 00:31:16.190 --> 00:31:17.580 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 438 00:31:18.040 --> 00:31:22.070 Betty Ann bernard -John: And…
afterwards… Continue like normal? 439 00:31:22.070 --> 00:31:23.170 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 440 00:31:23.170 --> 00:31:26.529 Betty Ann bernard -John: She had complications afterwards, I had to deal with all of that. 441 00:31:26.530 --> 00:31:28.120 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 442 00:31:28.120 --> 00:31:32.699 Betty Ann bernard -John: And then, usually post-call, you go home, 8 o'clock in the morning. 443 00:31:32.840 --> 00:31:34.710 Betty Ann bernard -John: That's a standard with her. 444 00:31:34.710 --> 00:31:35.160 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 445 00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:38.889 Betty Ann bernard -John: And then they shut down the hospitals, so no visitors whatsoever. 446 00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:40.700 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, it was a lot. 447 00:31:40.700 --> 00:31:41.320 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 448 00:31:41.320 --> 00:31:46.589 Betty Ann bernard -John: But I remembered, it's not like you got a chance to say, you know, I have to grieve, let me take a day off. 449 00:31:46.590 --> 00:31:47.150 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 450 00:31:47.150 --> 00:31:48.080 Betty Ann bernard -John: Nothing like that. 451 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.469 Betty Ann bernard -John: Lately, I think they said they have… 452 00:31:53.020 --> 00:31:55.749 Betty Ann bernard -John: Counselor or somebody you could go talk to. 453 00:31:55.750 --> 00:31:56.280 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 454 00:31:56.520 --> 00:32:02.500 Betty Ann bernard -John: But from hindsight, I don't think much people bother. Most of us doctors don't bother. We just go on. 455 00:32:03.070 --> 00:32:03.570 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 456 00:32:03.570 --> 00:32:07.200 Betty Ann bernard -John: So… It does. You come home, you're sad. 457 00:32:07.990 --> 00:32:12.300 Betty Ann bernard -John: about it sometimes, and talk about the experience, of course, without giving names, but sometimes. 458 00:32:12.300 --> 00:32:12.780 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 459 00:32:12.780 --> 00:32:14.089 Betty Ann bernard -John: Get it off your chest. 460 00:32:14.090 --> 00:32:14.570 Dr. Esther Bubb: True. 461 00:32:14.570 --> 00:32:17.620 Betty Ann bernard -John: So you talk it over, my mother-in-law was a nurse. 462 00:32:17.620 --> 00:32:17.970 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 463 00:32:18.740 --> 00:32:23.369 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, she would know, she's still working OBGYN also at one point. 464 00:32:23.890 --> 00:32:27.310 Betty Ann bernard -John: So you talk about the hard cases without giving names. 465 00:32:27.450 --> 00:32:31.929 Betty Ann bernard -John: And that's the most I get, like, you know, to talk about it, and then that's it. 466 00:32:32.340 --> 00:32:32.920 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 467 00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:33.560 Betty Ann bernard -John: Move on. 468 00:32:33.560 --> 00:32:34.540 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 469 00:32:34.570 --> 00:32:38.650 Betty Ann bernard -John: So… Has it impacted my life? I mean… 470 00:32:41.090 --> 00:32:48.290 Betty Ann bernard -John: Not necessarily my family life, I wouldn't say that. It hasn't changed anything or anything grand, so I'm. 471 00:32:48.290 --> 00:32:48.670 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 472 00:32:48.670 --> 00:32:50.010 Betty Ann bernard -John: Not really. 473 00:32:50.010 --> 00:32:50.380 Dr. Esther Bubb: Thank you. 474 00:32:50.380 --> 00:32:51.150 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yes. 475 00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:52.180 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 476 00:32:52.180 --> 00:33:15.329 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, that… that was… that was a powerful, inspiring story, Betty, and so we all, you know, have those experiences. So, like, I've had several instances where staff, I had to… they were… had a medical emergency, and we had to call 911, the ambulance came, you know, and I always… my practice is, Betty, and I always, always, always go with, whether it's a staff or a student, I ride on the ambulance with them and go to the hospital until family shows up, right? But… 477 00:33:15.510 --> 00:33:34.320 Dr. Esther Bubb: But I can tell you there was a recent experience where, like, I'm in the waiting room, in the lobby, waiting, you know, for them to say, because the parent wasn't there, like, you can go back and be with her, and I was just overcome with tears, because I'm like, you know what I mean? It impacts you, you know what I mean? It takes a toll, and I don't know how much people realize that the only… the one thing I can tell you, though, Bethian, is, 478 00:33:34.350 --> 00:33:48.080 Dr. Esther Bubb: my job has, like, an employee assistance program, so if you need to talk to someone, or if you need to, you know, take a break, whatever the case is, but sometimes it's not as intentional as we would all like it to be, right? But it does have an impact. But I think, Betty, on your upbringing. 479 00:33:48.080 --> 00:34:02.889 Dr. Esther Bubb: Because you have a supportive system around you, and I think, and your family, you know, and your friends, and I think you have so many positive, you know, experiences in your environment that kind of, you know, would not necessarily allow that to overcome you. Some people just don't, right? So… 480 00:34:02.890 --> 00:34:03.590 Betty Ann bernard -John: Okay. 481 00:34:03.590 --> 00:34:04.690 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 482 00:34:04.810 --> 00:34:07.260 Dr. Esther Bubb: I think that contributes a bit, you know? 483 00:34:07.260 --> 00:34:13.810 Betty Ann bernard -John: talk about a support, something I usually talk to, well, say, young mothers. 484 00:34:14.080 --> 00:34:14.620 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 485 00:34:14.620 --> 00:34:17.179 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know, in our society, you have… 486 00:34:17.429 --> 00:34:20.130 Betty Ann bernard -John: Just think about… and up to this day. 487 00:34:20.350 --> 00:34:22.679 Betty Ann bernard -John: I can't understand it, I mean… Yeah. 488 00:34:23.870 --> 00:34:28.269 Betty Ann bernard -John: I have a baby, I'm pregnant, I have a boyfriend, we don't live together. 489 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:32.239 Betty Ann bernard -John: one house, I live in one house. Sometimes they
live in different parishes. 490 00:34:32.370 --> 00:34:32.690 Dr. Esther Bubb: beer. 491 00:34:32.690 --> 00:34:36.719 Betty Ann bernard -John: And here you are, you're coming to have a baby, and you're gonna go home with the baby. 492 00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:37.239 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 493 00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:40.039 Betty Ann bernard -John: I mean, childbirth in itself has its trauma. 494 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:40.770 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 495 00:34:40.770 --> 00:34:46.009 Betty Ann bernard -John: And now you… I'm from experience, now I know when you have a young baby, it's such a different… 496 00:34:46.010 --> 00:34:46.440 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 497 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:52.809 Betty Ann bernard -John: everything. And here you are going to go home, back to your house, where your partner is not there. 498 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:53.310 Dr. Esther Bubb: Ian. 499 00:34:53.310 --> 00:35:00.769 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I'm trying to figure out, how do they end up getting the closeness of a family unit? Yeah. Mother, father, child? 500 00:35:00.770 --> 00:35:01.100 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 501 00:35:01.100 --> 00:35:02.600 Betty Ann bernard -John: I can never understand it. 502 00:35:02.600 --> 00:35:02.960 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 503 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:06.090 Betty Ann bernard -John: I had support when I had my child. 504 00:35:06.090 --> 00:35:06.540 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 505 00:35:06.540 --> 00:35:11.760 Betty Ann bernard -John: I was living with my mother-in-law, she was there for us, I lived with my husband. 506 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:12.380 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 507 00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:18.209 Betty Ann bernard -John: My mom used to come down. When I went back to work, she would come down, stay with the baby. 508 00:35:18.210 --> 00:35:18.600 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 509 00:35:18.600 --> 00:35:23.829 Betty Ann bernard -John: I mean, I had all this support, and at times, I felt overwhelmed. 510 00:35:24.410 --> 00:35:27.040 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I always used to be like, I don't know how this young. 511 00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:27.550 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 512 00:35:27.550 --> 00:35:28.420 Betty Ann bernard -John: Do it! 513 00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:29.030 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 514 00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:44.269 Betty Ann bernard -John: Without the support, without this… I had all the support, and I was still feeling overwhelmed sometimes. Yes, yeah. So, whenever I were underwater, I started realizing that. So, when I see the young mothers come, and I know they're not in that kind of family unit. 515 00:35:44.270 --> 00:35:44.690 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 516 00:35:44.690 --> 00:35:48.589 Betty Ann bernard -John: I always, in my mind, I'm thinking, oh boy, you don't know how hard it is there. 517 00:35:48.590 --> 00:35:49.919 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 518 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:50.770 Betty Ann bernard -John: on that. 519 00:35:50.770 --> 00:36:15.759 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. So, so, yeah, really good point, and support
is critical, and I think some of that, Bethian, lends itself to the next part of our conversation, right? Like, leadership in healthcare, but really social change, and talking… extending our conversation about gender-based violence. So it remains, as we all know, you know, a critical issue in Grenada, the Caribbean, but the world. Like, let's just be honest, right? We've just been seeing a lot more cases recently, and at this point, Bethian, with the most recent incident, it's not just even 520 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.390 Dr. Esther Bubb: young. 521 00:36:16.470 --> 00:36:23.710 Dr. Esther Bubb: People, it's seniors, right? How do you view gender-based violence as both a public health issue, but also a leadership challenge? 522 00:36:27.680 --> 00:36:30.259 Betty Ann bernard -John: We're doing a lot of workshops, we're doing a lot. 523 00:36:30.260 --> 00:36:30.750 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 524 00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:41.820 Betty Ann bernard -John: for that, no. And, it's so complicated. It is. Whenever I hear gender-based violence, it's complicated. Very complicated. 525 00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:46.760 Betty Ann bernard -John: Because… Honestly, sometimes I feel so helpless when I do. 526 00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:47.170 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 527 00:36:47.170 --> 00:36:49.690 Betty Ann bernard -John: the litter, and I don't get… 528 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:53.480 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't get the big cases, like the rape cases. Okay. 529 00:36:53.650 --> 00:36:54.030 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 530 00:36:54.030 --> 00:36:59.809 Betty Ann bernard -John: I've never had anything grand to have to deal with, honestly, from my own experience. 531 00:37:00.220 --> 00:37:04.469 Betty Ann bernard -John: I think, thank God, because, I mean, thinking about those poor women and not being. 532 00:37:04.470 --> 00:37:04.860 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 533 00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:06.260 Betty Ann bernard -John: I'm interested in helping them. 534 00:37:06.450 --> 00:37:07.659 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. I mean… 535 00:37:09.020 --> 00:37:18.089 Betty Ann bernard -John: It's difficult. The government, we try. I don't know. Well, I say we try. I'm hoping that they do… they are trying, because here's one. 536 00:37:19.620 --> 00:37:22.440 Betty Ann bernard -John: I would be the first line, the doctors are the first line. 537 00:37:22.560 --> 00:37:41.549 Betty Ann bernard -John: That a patient come to. Right. So here you have somebody you have to offer emotional support, you have to treat them physically, and then you're left with the task of seeing where do you go from here? Yeah. Because it's not just, like, somebody coming with a cut, you suture it, tape it out, and they go about their business. 538 00:37:41.550 --> 00:37:42.710 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 539 00:37:42.710 --> 00:37:48.770 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… You see them. You have to try not to show no bias. 540 00:37:48.990 --> 00:37:54.680 Betty Ann bernard -John: Try to be sympathetic, listen carefully, try to make them feel as best as they can in that. 541 00:37:54.680 --> 00:37:55.230 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 542 00:37:55.230 --> 00:38:00.579 Betty Ann bernard -John: While trying to get information also, which would help them as best as you can. 543 00:38:00.580 --> 00:38:01.250 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 544 00:38:01.420 --> 00:38:07.879 Betty Ann bernard -John: Then, the hard part is… After you've treated the wound, Collected what you need. 545 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.400 Betty Ann bernard -John: How do you go about? 546 00:38:09.730 --> 00:38:14.969 Betty Ann bernard -John: This is one of the harder parts, because there are so many limited resources. 547 00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:16.070 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 548 00:38:16.580 --> 00:38:22.269 Betty Ann bernard -John: counsellors, In Grenada, I think they are very limited. So… 549 00:38:22.410 --> 00:38:35.000 Betty Ann bernard -John: social development aspect in the ministry, where you have the counselors, I know they're understaffed, I know they're overworked. And then you have to deal with the fact that a lot of these women in Grenada… the Grenada is small. 550 00:38:35.190 --> 00:38:36.440 Dr. Esther Bubb: It is small, yeah. 551 00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:47.099 Betty Ann bernard -John: And this thing about confidentiality, nobody believes that there's any confidentiality. Yeah. So, I've had a lot of people who I refer to Congress say. 552 00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:57.170 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't want no counseling, because I don't want my business all over the thing. So here you are now with a patient who definitely needs counseling, who doesn't want it because. 553 00:38:57.170 --> 00:38:57.530 Dr. Esther Bubb: Beautiful. 554 00:38:58.720 --> 00:39:01.600 Betty Ann bernard -John: You're challenged with that. That's one aspect. 555 00:39:01.600 --> 00:39:02.040 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 556 00:39:02.040 --> 00:39:05.520 Betty Ann bernard -John: Do I send her back in the same pool? 557 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:09.499 Betty Ann bernard -John: They have a few safe houses, usually it's filled. 558 00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:10.950 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 559 00:39:10.950 --> 00:39:12.459 Betty Ann bernard -John: You have to call the police. 560 00:39:12.590 --> 00:39:16.529 Betty Ann bernard -John: You have to call the department. I think they have a special victims unit now. 561 00:39:16.530 --> 00:39:17.350 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 562 00:39:17.350 --> 00:39:24.720 Betty Ann bernard -John: I've never had to call them so far since they've been established, so I can't say if they really work very well. Yeah. I mean… 563 00:39:25.020 --> 00:39:35.209 Betty Ann bernard -John: It's just… and then at the end of the day, most times, the women end up back the same place where they start, and you feel that all the challenges you have tried to overcome to help them. 564 00:39:35.350 --> 00:39:54.479 Betty Ann bernard -John: has gone to waste. Because I remember there was a time when they told me it had a
safe house where women of domestic violence can go. And I remember a nurse saying, it doesn't make sense, because you're passing next to the house, and you're seeing the same men you tried to get the woman from at the gate, talking to the woman through the gate. 565 00:39:54.750 --> 00:39:55.440 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 566 00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:01.869 Betty Ann bernard -John: Some of them, within a few days, they leave and they go back. And it's just so much. That's why I said. 567 00:40:02.040 --> 00:40:02.730 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 568 00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:04.489 Betty Ann bernard -John: I don't even know how to approach it. 569 00:40:04.770 --> 00:40:05.100 Dr. Esther Bubb: Thank you. 570 00:40:05.100 --> 00:40:07.579 Betty Ann bernard -John: What I'll tell you is, like, that young lady. 571 00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:11.199 Betty Ann bernard -John: The same one I was talking about with the Andy, actually. 572 00:40:11.330 --> 00:40:11.990 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 573 00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:13.910 Betty Ann bernard -John: she's GBV. 574 00:40:14.790 --> 00:40:19.989 Betty Ann bernard -John: I mean, she already started her channels, because I did talk to her about counseling stuff. 575 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:27.910 Betty Ann bernard -John: And… I mean, I can't make the decision for her. The most I could have done in that aspect was say to God, you know what? 576 00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:32.020 Betty Ann bernard -John: You will have to sit down and decide what's best for you and your kids. 577 00:40:32.140 --> 00:40:35.220 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know all the answers, because I've been asking her. 578 00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:42.259 Betty Ann bernard -John: How does it affect your kids? What happens? I said, you've seen it, so you know, and you have to make that decision. 579 00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:50.540 Betty Ann bernard -John: I am… there was one, I gave a number for the police, I tell her she can call them, they would guide her what to do. 580 00:40:50.720 --> 00:40:51.050 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 581 00:40:51.050 --> 00:41:01.690 Betty Ann bernard -John: They come with their cuts and their bruises. There was once I had to do with somebody who claimed she was beaten. You take your pictures, I asked her, she took her pictures. Have your pictures, report to the police. 582 00:41:02.040 --> 00:41:02.730 Dr. Esther Bubb: Dear. 583 00:41:02.730 --> 00:41:10.660 Betty Ann bernard -John: I try, but sometimes it feels… not sometimes. Most times, and in workshops I point to that, most times it feels like 584 00:41:10.910 --> 00:41:20.910 Betty Ann bernard -John: your hands are tied in terms of, after treating the wounds, what to do. And I think it's something we really, really need to work more on. 585 00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:24.400 Betty Ann bernard -John: And that need improvement faster rather than later. 586 00:41:24.630 --> 00:41:44.300 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, I agree, with you, with you, Bethian, on that. It's… it's one of those things where it's so complex. It's a, it's a complex issue, because, you know, we're talking about an island, we're talking about a small island, we're talking about limited resources, we're talking about mindsets, you know, culture, things like that. So it's very complex, and so I've spoken to, 587 00:41:44.390 --> 00:41:55.740 Dr. Esther Bubb: the episode I released yesterday, all of the youths, you know, we talked about that, but I also spoke to Timothy about this topic as well, and we all talked about, like, the education, right? That it has to start from young. 588 00:41:55.930 --> 00:42:15.729 Dr. Esther Bubb: But to your point, we could do it from young, right? But then, there are… people encounter so many, you know, different circumstances and experience in life that we can do all of this when young, but it can't be undone. But I think at the end of the day, it just… it has to come from home. It has to come from home, because I think of your story, I think of my story, I think of other stories. I think of your daughter, I think of my daughter. 589 00:42:15.730 --> 00:42:18.890 Dr. Esther Bubb: It started for them, it started for us, Betsyan, at home. 590 00:42:18.890 --> 00:42:20.410 Dr. Esther Bubb: And so, if… 591 00:42:20.410 --> 00:42:40.219 Dr. Esther Bubb: I think that's one of the places we have to start, is in the home, but how do we do that is really the question. You know what I mean? And not just for the girls, for the boys, too. How are we raising our boys? You know, what are we teaching them? What are we exposing them to? Another thought is, so they may… we may give them all these resources, but if they don't have a job, so how can we help them find jobs? And I know it's a complex conversation, Betty, and for. 592 00:42:40.220 --> 00:42:40.660 Betty Ann bernard -John: I agree. 593 00:42:40.660 --> 00:42:41.990 Dr. Esther Bubb: Nita, right? 594 00:42:41.990 --> 00:42:42.330 Betty Ann bernard -John: It is. 595 00:42:42.330 --> 00:42:44.369 Dr. Esther Bubb: But, yeah, you're so right. 596 00:42:44.890 --> 00:42:52.810 Betty Ann bernard -John: And you do have a point with your education. The last workshop I was in, we were talking about 597 00:42:54.510 --> 00:43:02.130 Betty Ann bernard -John: the… trying to change… Yeah. This law is trying to change where they let children 12 years be able to seek. 598 00:43:03.150 --> 00:43:03.850 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 599 00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:12.419 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. And even in the gender-based violence workshop, too, education is key, and I have stated that I don't think 600 00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:20.429 Betty Ann bernard -John: we put… enough… Emphasis in the curriculum when it comes to education and sexual. 601 00:43:20.430 --> 00:43:21.670 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 602 00:43:21.670 --> 00:43:27.249 Betty Ann bernard -John: They don't. And I remember telling them in the last meeting, HFLE, all I learned about was puberty. 603 00:43:28.170 --> 00:43:33.400 Betty Ann bernard
-John: They don't have the raw sex talk. They don't talk about domestic violence, they don't. 604 00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:33.750 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right. 605 00:43:33.750 --> 00:43:42.930 Betty Ann bernard -John: about how you treat one another. I mean, I remember joking with my daughter, one time and say, I don't find you guys know what it is to date. 606 00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:52.300 Betty Ann bernard -John: them young guys know what it is to use a pickup line, or how to attract a girl. Hey, girl, your bottom look good. I said, that's not a pickup line. 607 00:43:52.300 --> 00:43:53.239 Dr. Esther Bubb: Nope, not at all. 608 00:43:53.240 --> 00:44:06.850 Betty Ann bernard -John: And unless we don't have proper training, I think we need to do better in curriculum. You talk about home. Yes, home have a lot to play with it, but we have to remember, society has shifted. We no longer have the older folks being. 609 00:44:06.850 --> 00:44:07.560 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 610 00:44:07.560 --> 00:44:10.949 Betty Ann bernard -John: leading parent. Yeah. You have the teenagers who got. 611 00:44:10.950 --> 00:44:11.269 Dr. Esther Bubb: pregnant with. 612 00:44:11.270 --> 00:44:20.570 Betty Ann bernard -John: and they were in their teens, so now the child is a little bit older, and they have a little bit more freedom. They don't have time to do any educating there. They want to be able to live the life that they miss. 613 00:44:20.570 --> 00:44:21.550 Dr. Esther Bubb: Right, yeah. 614 00:44:21.550 --> 00:44:29.860 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, it has been a big breakdown in terms of getting proper education at home, proper motivation, proper moral modeling. 615 00:44:29.860 --> 00:44:30.250 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 616 00:44:30.250 --> 00:44:32.799 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, where there's a little slack at home. 617 00:44:33.040 --> 00:44:33.410 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 618 00:44:33.410 --> 00:44:34.340 Betty Ann bernard -John: and pickup. 619 00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:35.840 Dr. Esther Bubb: The school can pick up, yes. 620 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:37.490 Betty Ann bernard -John: curriculum guidelines. 621 00:44:37.490 --> 00:44:37.810 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 622 00:44:37.810 --> 00:44:42.899 Betty Ann bernard -John: Let's talk about sex. Talk about the real sex. The generation nowadays don't want nothing sugar-coated. 623 00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:44.080 Dr. Esther Bubb: Nope, nope. 624 00:44:44.260 --> 00:44:48.820 Betty Ann bernard -John: Right? And they have so much more tools now that they can use in school. 625 00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:49.600 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 626 00:44:49.600 --> 00:45:03.339 Betty Ann bernard -John: It's no longer telling the child, go and study, go in the library and look for encyclopedia XYZ, and come back and bring it. You have so much more tools, and until they don't change the curriculum to include proper education as early as 627 00:45:03.660 --> 00:45:06.949 Betty Ann bernard -John: I say as early as grade 1. 628 00:45:06.950 --> 00:45:07.650 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 629 00:45:08.050 --> 00:45:08.829 Dr. Esther Bubb: To start the call? 630 00:45:08.830 --> 00:45:12.340 Betty Ann bernard -John: Our children are talking about, oh, mommy and dad in the bedroom. 631 00:45:12.340 --> 00:45:12.800 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 632 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:14.340 Betty Ann bernard -John: On top of one another. 633 00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:15.000 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 634 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.579 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, if you don't bring in a proper education, we will not reach 635 00:45:19.830 --> 00:45:22.270 Betty Ann bernard -John: The minds that we're trying to reach. 636 00:45:22.270 --> 00:45:22.730 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 637 00:45:22.730 --> 00:45:25.489 Betty Ann bernard -John: And we can't wait till they are adults. 638 00:45:25.490 --> 00:45:25.850 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 639 00:45:25.850 --> 00:45:31.069 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yes, having proper job and all of that. It goes back to what you learned from early, like me. 640 00:45:31.070 --> 00:45:32.220 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 641 00:45:32.350 --> 00:45:41.179 Betty Ann bernard -John: what you learn from early, what you understand from early, and then your motivation to do what is right. Because I have a path to Esther. 642 00:45:41.180 --> 00:45:41.660 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 643 00:45:41.660 --> 00:45:43.770 Betty Ann bernard -John: Two sisters grew up in the same home. 644 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:45.870 Dr. Esther Bubb: True, true, yes, yes. 645 00:45:45.870 --> 00:45:50.109 Betty Ann bernard -John: They get the same… they see the same parent, they see the same thing every day. 646 00:45:50.380 --> 00:45:52.899 Betty Ann bernard -John: And one decided to be a bad girl, and one. 647 00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:53.360 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 648 00:45:53.360 --> 00:46:08.030 Betty Ann bernard -John: follow the straight and narrow. So it has to do, too, with the mindset. A lot of it. Yeah. But we do need to, I don't know, we do need to get something going to break this… I don't know if you say bad streak we have going on. 649 00:46:08.030 --> 00:46:09.559 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 650 00:46:09.560 --> 00:46:10.530 Betty Ann bernard -John: It's catching the list. 651 00:46:10.640 --> 00:46:16.960 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, and you raise an excellent point, Betsyan, about nature-nurture, right? Like, so everybody grows up in the same house, and we walk different paths. 652 00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:19.949 Betty Ann bernard -John: That's what you call it, nature nurture? Yeah. 653 00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:25.099 Dr. Esther Bubb: Nature, what we're all born with, and nurture, what we exposed to, like, you know, the. 654 00:46:25.100 --> 00:46:25.560 Betty Ann bernard -John: Yeah. 655 00:46:25.560 --> 00:46:36.950 Dr. Esther Bubb: And it's just like, yeah. And, you know, you've raised some really excellent points, because McKaylin Elementary School had those conversations in school. They happened here, you know, with me. You know,
as her mother. 656 00:46:36.950 --> 00:46:47.630 Dr. Esther Bubb: But then also, once she turned 14, whenever she went to the doctor, like, I had to excuse myself from the room. They would say, we need to ask her some questions. So then they would ask them those kinds of questions so that they're not influenced 657 00:46:47.630 --> 00:47:02.120 Dr. Esther Bubb: And if she needed to share some information, like this was happening, she can share it, and I'm not there making her feel like she can't respond. Even me now, Betty, and at my age, when I go to the doctor, they ask those kinds of questions. Are you safe at home? Are there any guns in home? You know, things like that. They have social work and support, so, like. 658 00:47:02.410 --> 00:47:15.479 Dr. Esther Bubb: whether I choose to answer or not and share the information is a different question, but, like, those are just some ideas, you know, the education and, like, you know, making sure people have opportunities to answer those questions. Because even if you… I'm thinking back to your story about 659 00:47:15.600 --> 00:47:30.059 Dr. Esther Bubb: the girl who came in, and the grandmom, you know, told her she had to have sex with this guy, I think it's just the way you approached it. You were just a human, and just having a conversation, right? And then it came out, so I think… I think those are, like, all parts of, like, this larger puzzle. 660 00:47:30.240 --> 00:47:32.470 Dr. Esther Bubb: You know, on this topic. 661 00:47:32.470 --> 00:47:41.949 Betty Ann bernard -John: There's still this thing here where, we're not allowed to treat patients without underage, under 18, without an adult in the room. 662 00:47:42.520 --> 00:47:44.650 Betty Ann bernard -John: Right? Yeah. So… 663 00:47:45.160 --> 00:47:57.230 Betty Ann bernard -John: that's something probably we need to work on. What I do to… if I realize, and not everybody have the ability to realize, because some people may not be like me and push, I guess my daughters here fast. 664 00:47:58.510 --> 00:47:58.830 Betty Ann bernard -John: What else? 665 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:10.760 Betty Ann bernard -John: I realize there's something I need to ask that I don't think, for example, she come in, there's this young girl that came in, and the mother said she was complaining of having a vaginal discharge. 666 00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:11.240 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 667 00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:16.169 Betty Ann bernard -John: No. If I ask her if she's sexually active in front of the mother, more than likely she would say no. 671 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:40.850 Betty Ann bernard -John: So yes, we still have all of this to deal with. 672 00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:41.870 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 673 00:48:41.870 --> 00:48:49.520 Betty Ann bernard -John: But education, I think they need to do better in school. If we start from school, at least, whatever they missed at home. 674 00:48:49.720 --> 00:48:50.370 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 675 00:48:50.370 --> 00:48:56.730 Betty Ann bernard -John: We might be able to push forward, because believe it or not, whether we teach them in a structured way. 676 00:48:56.910 --> 00:48:57.340 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 677 00:48:57.340 --> 00:49:03.520 Betty Ann bernard -John: They do learn it. They go on the internet, they visit the pond sites, and then what they learn are the TV and stuff. 678 00:49:03.860 --> 00:49:04.320 Dr. Esther Bubb: BF. 679 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.389 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, if you don't take control, and I learned that from early with my daughter. 680 00:49:08.390 --> 00:49:08.870 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 681 00:49:08.870 --> 00:49:13.090 Betty Ann bernard -John: Because from day one, stage one, kindergarten. 682 00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:13.650 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes. 683 00:49:13.650 --> 00:49:19.050 Betty Ann bernard -John: First day of school, she came back home and said to me, Mommy, at girl time, let's go behind the school and play the kissing game. 684 00:49:19.530 --> 00:49:20.210 Dr. Esther Bubb: Hmm. 685 00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:21.049 Betty Ann bernard -John: I was like, what? 686 00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:25.220 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. No, no, no, no! 687 00:49:25.220 --> 00:49:30.089 Betty Ann bernard -John: And then I… I pushed that away, and then at some other point, was it grade 1? 688 00:49:30.180 --> 00:49:45.890 Betty Ann bernard -John: She's talking about how to make babies, how her friend tell her the mother and father just go in the room, and they just stick articles and lay them on one another. So when I got that one, I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I have to start talking about this problem now, because if I don't teach her. 689 00:49:45.890 --> 00:49:46.300 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep. 690 00:49:46.300 --> 00:49:48.739 Betty Ann bernard -John: She's gonna learn it, and she's gonna learn the wrong things. 691 00:49:48.740 --> 00:49:49.140 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 692 00:49:49.140 --> 00:49:50.710 Betty Ann bernard -John: I was forced, because it was 693 00:49:51.070 --> 00:49:54.530 Betty Ann bernard -John: intention at that time, from how I learned, how I grew up. 694 00:49:54.530 --> 00:49:55.650 Dr. Esther Bubb: Exactly, yeah. 695 00:49:55.650 --> 00:50:08.120 Betty Ann bernard -John: not my intention to talk about it so early, probably when I had the talk when I had my first period. So I was probably thinking around them time there, but then when my girl coming home and telling me things that… 696 00:50:08.310 --> 00:50:11.600 Betty Ann bernard -John: I should be telling her. I started pretty early. 697 00:50:11.600 --> 00:50:19.529 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yep, yep, exactly, and same. So once I started hearing those conversations around Michaela, or getting those questions, and you're right, it's just how we were raised, it was like, shh, no. 698 00:50:19.930 --> 00:50:37.549 Dr. Esther Bubb: That's not for you to know. So, I think, you know, just our experiences, but I think also, so Betty and, you know, our education, going out of
the country traveling, I think all of that, you know, contributes to how we view things now, and, you know, I'm ready to support however I can, so reach out. 699 00:50:37.680 --> 00:50:55.889 Dr. Esther Bubb: So, let's close our conversation up, Etienne, in terms of, like, what advice you'd have for change makers. So, what is one Monday morning move you would recommend? Just something small, you know, specific, intentional, that listeners listening to this conversation can take away this week to begin creating positive change in their own lives, the lives of their children, you know, the communities, those that they serve. 700 00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:59.050 Betty Ann bernard -John: Is there a Monday morning routine? 701 00:50:59.560 --> 00:51:00.040 Betty Ann bernard -John: like. 702 00:51:00.040 --> 00:51:07.579 Dr. Esther Bubb: a Monday morning move, something they can do as they start the week or as they start the day, you know, to create change, even if it's just small. 703 00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:10.530 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know, I hate Mondays. 704 00:51:10.530 --> 00:51:12.050 Dr. Esther Bubb: I'm gonna hit pause. 705 00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:13.090 Betty Ann bernard -John: Days of the week, but. 706 00:51:13.090 --> 00:51:13.550 Dr. Esther Bubb: We did. 707 00:51:13.550 --> 00:51:14.579 Betty Ann bernard -John: These are the worst. 708 00:51:14.580 --> 00:51:15.850 Dr. Esther Bubb: Okay. 709 00:51:15.850 --> 00:51:18.069 Betty Ann bernard -John: I mean, I'm not a morning person. 710 00:51:18.070 --> 00:51:18.410 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah. 711 00:51:18.410 --> 00:51:19.710 Betty Ann bernard -John: You know, it's a bed. 712 00:51:20.490 --> 00:51:31.100 Betty Ann bernard -John: So, there's nothing that I… I can't think of anything that I do on a Monday to motivate me. All I know, I keep telling myself, oh, I wish the weekend was a little bit longer. 713 00:51:31.100 --> 00:51:32.389 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, exactly, yeah. 714 00:51:32.390 --> 00:51:34.709 Betty Ann bernard -John: I could teach them how to make the weekend longer. 715 00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:36.329 Betty Ann bernard -John: That would be the best. 716 00:51:37.180 --> 00:51:37.940 Betty Ann bernard -John: Ta-hum! 717 00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:47.229 Betty Ann bernard -John: I can't think of anything I do that makes Mondays better. Nothing at all. Probably the Sunday night, I decide what I'm gonna wear. 718 00:51:47.500 --> 00:51:49.430 Dr. Esther Bubb: So, planning ahead. 719 00:51:49.730 --> 00:52:09.640 Betty Ann bernard -John: planning ahead, but yes, you could put it that way. I never look at it as a motivation, but I do know that Sunday I would say, let me decide what I'm wearing Monday, because I already know I'm going to be waking up in a groggy mood, not wanting to go to work. So, at least if I have my outfit ready, or I know what I'm going to wear, it takes away from one less thing to be grouchy about. 720 00:52:09.640 --> 00:52:20.850 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, I love that, I love that. That's… that's super active. In terms of what I… all the stuff I do, behavior, that's the antecedent. Everything we do before, that makes it more likely that that behavior is going to happen. So, see ya. 721 00:52:20.850 --> 00:52:22.430 Betty Ann bernard -John: But I'm still grocery on a Monday. 722 00:52:22.430 --> 00:52:24.289 Dr. Esther Bubb: You're so grouchy! 723 00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:26.799 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I can tell you tomorrow I'll be grocery too soon. 724 00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:45.550 Dr. Esther Bubb: But I love that you entered my world of behavior analysis, so that was great. It was a great way to close this out, but planning ahead, being prepared, and I think just… you even gave it in your daughter, and for me, like, planning ahead, educating them, right? So, whatever it is, whether it's picking out the outfit or having those conversations, you know, doing it before the thing that we don't want to happen happens, yeah. 725 00:52:46.300 --> 00:53:04.560 Dr. Esther Bubb: Bethian, this was a very down-to-earth, open, honest, relational, you know, inspiring, and just fun conversation, you know? Obviously, we grew up together, we know each other for years, but there are a lot of aspects of the intricacies of our life that we may not necessarily be aware of, so I was able to learn a bit more today, and I do appreciate that. Thank you so much. 726 00:53:05.050 --> 00:53:07.770 Betty Ann bernard -John: Very welcome. Thanks for thinking about me. 727 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:11.929 Betty Ann bernard -John: I mean, I was very hesitant, because, you know… 728 00:53:11.930 --> 00:53:13.600 Dr. Esther Bubb: I'm glad. 729 00:53:13.600 --> 00:53:14.879 Betty Ann bernard -John: I was able to help. 730 00:53:15.130 --> 00:53:16.070 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yeah, yeah. 731 00:53:16.070 --> 00:53:19.070 Betty Ann bernard -John: And I hope whatever I say here helps somebody. 732 00:53:19.220 --> 00:53:34.460 Dr. Esther Bubb: Yes, yes, and that's… yes, that's the goal bit, and I think it will. You've shared the stories, the stories are what really, you know, what people hold onto, and you've shared so many stories, and I do appreciate that. They're very authentic, you know? Yeah. Thank you so much. Outro Thank you for listening to Behaviorally Speaking: Leadership for Change-Makers. Be sure to visit esthercbubbabaservices.com/blog for today's companion blog and additional leadership resources. Until next time, create the conditions for growth wherever you lead. I'm Dr. Esther Bubb. Stay inspired.
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