TRANSKRIPT 🔗
1
00:00:27,770 --> 00:00:29,060
This is Edwin k Morris,
2
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:34,300
and you are about to embark on the
next Pioneer Knowledge Services because
3
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,420
you need to know a digital resource
for you to listen to folks share
4
00:00:39,430 --> 00:00:43,260
their experience and knowledge around
the field of knowledge management and
5
00:00:43,260 --> 00:00:44,620
non-profit work.
6
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,260
If your company or organization would
like to help us continue this mission and
7
00:01:02,260 --> 00:01:04,820
sponsor one of our shows, email,
8
00:01:05,180 --> 00:01:09,460
B Y N T k@pioneerkss.org.
9
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:14,620
We.
10
00:01:14,620 --> 00:01:16,860
Follow up with a second
segment with Nick Milton,
11
00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:21,300
and we're gonna dig a little deeper
into the I S O for knowledge management,
12
00:01:21,610 --> 00:01:24,500
find out more about the why, where,
13
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,580
and how that it all
became and what it is to
14
00:01:28,890 --> 00:01:32,380
organizations today. Nick,
let's talk about this.
15
00:01:32,450 --> 00:01:33,900
When did this all start for you?
16
00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,580
Because you said you were part of
the planning of this whole thing.
17
00:01:37,330 --> 00:01:38,300
Yeah, yeah.
18
00:01:38,380 --> 00:01:42,900
I was part of the team that
developed the ISO standard.
19
00:01:43,940 --> 00:01:48,460
I think it goes back to,
let me see now. Is it 2014?
20
00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:49,613
I think it was.
21
00:01:49,990 --> 00:01:54,780
There was this request from
the Israelis to put a knowledge
22
00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:59,460
management standard together. Hmm. There
used to be a, although it still is,
23
00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:01,700
there's a clause in ISO 9,001,
24
00:02:01,870 --> 00:02:06,580
which requires anybody working a quality
system to manage the knowledge within
25
00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:10,900
that quality system. Hmm.
That was not a KM standard,
26
00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:14,340
that was a quality standard with
recognizing knowledge as an asset.
27
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,460
But the Israelis in 2014 came up
with a request that we should have
28
00:02:19,460 --> 00:02:22,540
a similar standard for
knowledge management. And
that was for three reasons.
29
00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:26,580
Firstly, an increasing understanding
of the importance of km.
30
00:02:27,220 --> 00:02:30,420
Secondly, ambiguity in
understanding what KM actually is,
31
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:32,380
and thirdly,
32
00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:36,580
multiple and common failures of KM
projects and initiatives because
33
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,340
people were taking incomplete
approaches. You know,
34
00:02:40,340 --> 00:02:42,060
things like the technology led approach,
35
00:02:42,110 --> 00:02:44,620
which we've known for
years is not gonna work.
36
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,820
Or they build a library of
everything, you know, approach,
37
00:02:47,870 --> 00:02:51,260
which we know is not gonna
work. , we thought that,
38
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,220
or the Israelis thought that
if we had a helpful standard,
39
00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,000
it would at least point people in the
right direction and point them away from
40
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,920
some of the most common pitfalls.
So once that proposal was received,
41
00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:09,240
it had to go around to all
of the ISO members. And iso,
42
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,960
practically every country in the
world is, is a member of iso.
43
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,880
I think it's about 180 countries.
And we got approval to go ahead.
44
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,680
There were some countries were suspicious,
45
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,400
Germany was not very keen on the idea,
46
00:03:21,580 --> 00:03:24,760
but they decided that if there
was going to be a standard,
47
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,720
they'd like to be involved in drafting
it. Mm-hmm. , we then,
48
00:03:28,670 --> 00:03:32,400
this must now be about 2015,
49
00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:35,720
it was agreed that we'd
start work on this.
50
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,120
Standard standards are written
by working groups of experts
51
00:03:40,650 --> 00:03:44,480
drawn from the member countries.
And these experts are not paid.
52
00:03:44,750 --> 00:03:46,280
They spend their time,
53
00:03:46,470 --> 00:03:50,360
they spend their travel
expenses themselves because
they think this is a worthy
54
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:51,193
cause. Okay.
55
00:03:51,220 --> 00:03:55,960
And each of the experts reports back to a
56
00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,240
mirror committee in their own
organization in America, A N S I,
57
00:04:00,820 --> 00:04:05,440
in the uk it's B S I and so on. Every,
58
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,840
every country's got one of
these mirror committees.
59
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,650
Various levels of draft are produced
and they're cycled around these mirror
60
00:04:13,650 --> 00:04:15,490
committees for edit review and input.
61
00:04:15,780 --> 00:04:20,490
Everything is done face to face
because the main philosophy behind an
62
00:04:20,590 --> 00:04:23,930
ISO standard is that we should
have unanimous agreement. Wow.
63
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,450
That sounds difficult. .
64
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,810
It's, it's difficult. And there
was an awful lot of discussion.
65
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,050
Yeah, I bet. Who is the ringmaster
that makes sure everybody,
66
00:04:36,730 --> 00:04:40,690
I, I just can't, even knowing the
academic frameworks that I've worked in,
67
00:04:40,750 --> 00:04:44,170
I'm like, I'm like, oh my good
gosh, are you kidding me? A hundred.
68
00:04:44,170 --> 00:04:45,370
Percent. No, it's,
69
00:04:45,370 --> 00:04:50,290
it's helped by the fact that
there is a very well-defined
70
00:04:51,090 --> 00:04:53,490
template for a, a management
system standard. Ah.
71
00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:57,490
So there's a limit to
Load full transcript
what you can
change and what you can add. Ah,
72
00:04:57,710 --> 00:04:59,850
we could modify it for
knowledge management,
73
00:04:59,950 --> 00:05:03,170
but ISO believe they know
how things work. Yeah.
74
00:05:03,190 --> 00:05:06,730
And they believe that they work
through planning, checking,
75
00:05:06,820 --> 00:05:10,530
doing acting simple P D C A model.
76
00:05:10,790 --> 00:05:14,010
So it took about three years
to write this standard. Um,
77
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,170
anybody could join any
of the mirror committees.
78
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,930
Anybody on the mirror committee
could join the working group.
79
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,890
It's entirely voluntary. And I was
on the B SS I mirror committee,
80
00:05:23,950 --> 00:05:28,290
and I was on the ISO drafting
panel. I came to a point,
81
00:05:28,490 --> 00:05:30,530
I think it was 2017,
82
00:05:31,060 --> 00:05:35,090
where we put a committee
draft out for public review,
83
00:05:35,270 --> 00:05:37,810
and it was published on the internet,
84
00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:41,850
and we widely advertised it, and
we got lots and lots of comments.
85
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,130
Some comments were very helpful, some
comments required us to change things,
86
00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:51,250
which we couldn't change. Uh, some
contradicted each other. Mm-hmm.
87
00:05:51,290 --> 00:05:54,570
. So we had to do a bit
of a juggling act. And some people,
88
00:05:54,830 --> 00:05:58,160
rather than using the comments reply form,
89
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,240
sent a whole bunch
of annotated text back,
90
00:06:01,250 --> 00:06:03,440
which was very difficult to deal with. Uh,
91
00:06:03,940 --> 00:06:06,920
now really we're working through it
paragraph by paragraph and we want to say,
92
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,880
what are all the comments on
this paragraph? But anyway, 2018,
93
00:06:11,340 --> 00:06:13,280
we had three days in Paris Okay.
94
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:17,200
To take all of those comments and
come out with a final draft. And that,
95
00:06:17,350 --> 00:06:18,600
that was what we came out with.
96
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:23,200
That was what was published as ISO 3 0
4 0 1 colon 2080. Mm-hmm. .
97
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,080
Mm-hmm. , I've already
talked about the 50 something,
98
00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,960
54 shalls that are within the document.
99
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:33,000
The ISO standard is a type A standard.
100
00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:37,160
So it's one that you can measure against
and it's got those requirements in it.
101
00:06:37,740 --> 00:06:38,300
For example,
102
00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:42,320
the organization shall determine external
and internal issues that are relevant
103
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,480
to its purpose and that affect its ability
to achieve the intended outcomes of
104
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,320
its knowledge management system. Mm-hmm.
, to meet that, you know,
105
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,400
you'd have to have a list of,
106
00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:54,480
of issues that have been
analyzed and and so on.
107
00:06:55,130 --> 00:06:59,120
There are 10 sections
in the standard itself,
108
00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:02,440
plus some appendices and
plus an introduction.
109
00:07:02,780 --> 00:07:06,000
We wrote quite a long
introduction because, uh,
110
00:07:06,430 --> 00:07:11,120
knowledge management needs a little bit
of a lead in for anybody who's new to
111
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,640
it. So we talked about some
of the principles mm-hmm.
112
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,840
behind knowledge we
talked about mm-hmm. ,
113
00:07:17,870 --> 00:07:22,720
some of the sister disciplines that
go alongside knowledge management,
114
00:07:23,030 --> 00:07:25,600
like information management,
like records management,
115
00:07:25,890 --> 00:07:28,920
which are adjacent but not identical.
116
00:07:29,420 --> 00:07:32,120
And then within the bookends
of the introduction and,
117
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,960
and the appendices is the body
of the standard itself. Okay.
118
00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:40,720
The first three sections are informative.
They have no shalls in there,
119
00:07:41,180 --> 00:07:43,920
but then you get to sections
4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10,
120
00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:48,680
and they tell you what you shall
do. Firstly, you set the context,
121
00:07:49,580 --> 00:07:54,520
you determine what outcomes you want from
km you determine who the stakeholders
122
00:07:54,660 --> 00:07:58,280
are and what their interests are.
You determine what is the scope,
123
00:07:58,590 --> 00:08:01,760
both the organizational scope, but
the knowledge scope as well. Mm-hmm.
124
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:02,200
. Mm-hmm. ,
125
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,560
this is all really good stuff
that every KM project should do.
126
00:08:07,420 --> 00:08:11,880
All too often we find projects
that haven't done this
homework that have jumped
127
00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:14,080
in with, you know, we've
got this technology,
128
00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:18,280
how should we roll it out without
saying, yeah. What outcome do we want?
129
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,440
And who are the stakeholders? What
do they want? Have we asked them?
130
00:08:21,750 --> 00:08:25,800
There's then a little bit about
the dimensions of the framework.
131
00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:30,440
The fact that we have to look at
codified knowledge on the one hand and un
132
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,200
codified on the other.
Uh, just as a side issue,
133
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,960
we didn't use the terms
explicit. And tat gonna.
134
00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:38,080
Say is, where did those
terms fall out and.
135
00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,480
Why? I tell you why, because
people understand them in,
136
00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:42,960
in rather different ways. Lots of people,
137
00:08:43,050 --> 00:08:47,840
about half of the people that we've
surveyed think that explicit knowledge
138
00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:49,560
is the same as documented
knowledge.
139
00:08:50,500 --> 00:08:54,640
The other half think that explicit
knowledge need not be documented,
140
00:08:54,740 --> 00:08:57,200
but it's the things that,
you know, you know, you know,
141
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,400
basically you can explain, explicit
means can be explained. Mm-hmm.
142
00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:04,040
If we use the word explicit,
143
00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:07,960
half of the people are going to hear
documents and half of the people are going
144
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,760
to hear, well, it could be documents,
could be in the heads. Could be. Yeah.
145
00:09:10,820 --> 00:09:15,080
So we use the terms documented and
undocumented or codified and un codified
146
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,720
really, because you can store, it doesn't
have to be a document. It could be a.
147
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,720
It's a smaller box. It's a smaller
definitional box. You, you can't,
148
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,880
you can't get lost too much
from codified to not codified.
149
00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:30,960
Exactly. Plus it is the phase change
in how you manage the knowledge,
150
00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:34,920
because it's the point at which the
knowledge becomes decoupled from the head.
151
00:09:35,020 --> 00:09:39,680
Mm. Anything that is codified
has now left its knower. Yeah.
152
00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:43,920
And can be managed by electronic
means. Anything that's un codified,
153
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,160
you've got to find the person
and talk to the person.
154
00:09:46,580 --> 00:09:48,160
Two different styles of management.
155
00:09:48,330 --> 00:09:50,480
Until we can get to the, uh, synapse, uh,
156
00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:53,240
access point to where I could
just plug in the brain and.
157
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:54,280
Suck it. Yeah. Yeah. One day.
158
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,073
.
159
00:09:56,100 --> 00:10:00,280
Not yet. So that's, that's that.
160
00:10:00,810 --> 00:10:02,520
We've got a little bit
in there about culture,
161
00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:04,560
and this is where one of
the big arguments came.
162
00:10:05,270 --> 00:10:09,920
Some people wanted a whole
explanation about how you
163
00:10:10,020 --> 00:10:14,760
should be setting in place a KM
culture. Hmm. Other people said,
164
00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:16,800
no, it's too fuzzy a term.
165
00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,600
So what we've ended up doing
is having one clause that says,
166
00:10:20,980 --> 00:10:24,320
you shall demonstrate how you are
addressing the cultural aspects.
167
00:10:25,060 --> 00:10:29,760
And then an appendix about ways in
which you could do that. Yeah. Yeah.
168
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,080
So you're not telling people what to do,
169
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,920
you're just saying you must have thought
about it and you must have documented
170
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:34,560
it. That's.
171
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:35,920
Probably a good way to go, because yeah.
172
00:10:35,980 --> 00:10:40,880
The trying to get a prescription for
a culture change or adaption very
173
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,520
tough. Is pretty tough. Yeah. I just
ask 'cause I've got it up here too.
174
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,040
'cause I'm very impressed
with the document because
I, I, for two reasons, as,
175
00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:50,440
as a kmr myself, I thought, oh my gosh,
176
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:55,400
this is finally gonna put some
authority behind what km what I feel km
177
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,080
can bring to an organization
and what it should do.
178
00:10:58,190 --> 00:11:02,880
Because the i s o for me was gonna be a
foundational thing that pivots a lot of
179
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,320
people away from, oh, it's just a
fad. It's just a blah, blah, blah,
180
00:11:06,340 --> 00:11:11,160
and we're not gonna do it because it
became more substantial with the I S O.
181
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:13,440
Yeah. Is it being adapted to,
182
00:11:13,620 --> 00:11:17,080
and I think you said in your survey
it's not really had a huge effect,
183
00:11:17,580 --> 00:11:20,200
but has it changed
anything in the market? I.
184
00:11:20,410 --> 00:11:24,600
Don't know, and I can't answer that
yet. Okay. If I do another survey,
185
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,360
I think I will be able
to answer that. But I,
186
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,720
I think what it does is
it changes the focus.
187
00:11:31,460 --> 00:11:33,160
KM knowledge management.
188
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:37,720
Most of us focus on the K ISO
3 0 4 0 1 focuses on the m
189
00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:42,360
So it's approaching knowledge management
from a different direction. Okay.
190
00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:46,000
And it's that a direction
that we seldom address.
191
00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:50,880
If you go and do a Google search
for knowledge management process,
192
00:11:51,310 --> 00:11:54,880
knowledge management, technology,
knowledge management roles,
193
00:11:55,070 --> 00:11:59,720
knowledge management, governance,
you'll get loads of hits for process,
194
00:12:00,290 --> 00:12:01,760
loads of hits for technology,
195
00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:06,320
and few on roles and almost
nothing on governance. Hmm.
196
00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:11,320
ISO 3 0 4 0 1 is 70%
governance, 15% roles,
197
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,880
a tiny bit on process and almost nothing
on technology because ISO is not going
198
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:21,480
to mandate what technology you use. It
mandates the management framework Yeah.
199
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,200
That you set around it. And
that's why I think, Edwin,
200
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,080
I think this is revolutionary for many
people because it's bringing half of the
201
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,080
phrase, bringing the management of
the phrase back into prominence.
202
00:12:32,780 --> 00:12:34,640
Do you think it ever was in prominence?
203
00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:38,800
Wasn't the management piece always kind
of the weak link in this? Yeah. Yeah.
204
00:12:39,100 -->
00:12:42,200
It was. Yes. You know, if people
write knowledge management well,
205
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,520
they're generally using a 48 font for
the knowledge and a 10 font for the
206
00:12:46,530 --> 00:12:50,680
management . We're trying to just
expand that font a little bit. .
207
00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:52,663
Yeah.
208
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,000
I mean, not literally. That's
hilarious. Not literally, but hilarious.
209
00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:57,120
You know, I like it.
210
00:12:57,420 --> 00:13:01,360
And then there seems to be a good focus
in this ISO about the leadership. Yeah.
211
00:13:01,460 --> 00:13:06,080
You, you say it's heavy to governance,
it's heavy to setting up the how. Yep.
212
00:13:06,460 --> 00:13:09,120
Uh, and that's been a,
a weak link, I think.
213
00:13:09,140 --> 00:13:13,480
And even in my formal education
of knowledge management
at the master's degree
214
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,320
level, the how was still not clear.
Mm-hmm. , it's like, okay,
215
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,920
I get it. And I I see the
vision. I see the light. Yeah.
216
00:13:22,060 --> 00:13:25,920
But I still don't understand the how,
how, how, how, how do I do all this?
217
00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:31,040
So this I s o is the how and it
should be on everybody's shelf.
218
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:32,720
It's the how and it,
219
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:36,600
it's the how this how starts
with the leader comes down,
220
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,520
through the policy comes down,
221
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,840
then through delegated authority comes
down through plans and objectives,
222
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,040
resources, the resources
have to be trained.
223
00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:51,880
And then I think chapter eight is about
the operational processes that are
224
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:52,620
applied.
225
00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:57,600
And then nine and 10 are about how you
review and improve the system going
226
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,800
forward. So not only
do you define the how,
227
00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:05,280
but you define how you're going to learn
from operations and how you're going to
228
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,600
improve the how. If people
follow that philosophy, it's,
229
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:11,640
it's a much firmer way to go.
230
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,480
It has always been, and I hear again, I,
231
00:14:14,590 --> 00:14:16,800
when I was so excited to hear
that this was coming out,
232
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:21,820
because there seems to be a bit
of quicksand that most KM is
233
00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:24,660
operated on, and it's either
personality base, you know,
234
00:14:24,940 --> 00:14:28,340
somebody's a firecracker and you're doing
stuff and blah. Mm-hmm. .
235
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,380
But it's always been a, in my view,
236
00:14:30,450 --> 00:14:34,860
it's been a bit of a challenge
to sustain resources for equal
237
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,460
KM parts. And that's
always been a challenge.
238
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,460
And this gives at least to the
operator, to the CAM operator,
239
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,540
the, the owner of it in an
organization to start building a,
240
00:14:47,660 --> 00:14:49,980
a more sound foundation
for that going forward.
241
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,880
And to be part of that resource poll, uh,
242
00:14:53,980 --> 00:14:58,720
at the C-suite to say, you know, Hey,
we, we need, we need this stuff because,
243
00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:01,680
so it brings a lot of weight and gravity.
244
00:15:02,110 --> 00:15:05,800
It's an unfamiliar document to,
um, many knowledge managers.
245
00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:11,520
So last year in the UK we came up with a
246
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,840
second standard, which is a
guide to the ISO standard.
247
00:15:14,950 --> 00:15:19,200
It's a British standard 3 4, 4 0 1.
But I think it's useful to anybody,
248
00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:20,120
you know,
249
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,760
for each of these 54 shalls to give
examples of how you might actually meet
250
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,400
them, things you can think about,
things you could do. It's got no shalls,
251
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,880
it's not a requirement standard,
it's an advisory standard. Hmm. I'm,
252
00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:36,120
I'm pleased with that one. Again, I
was on the drafting team for that one,
253
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,680
and I think it fills a bit of a gap,
254
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,420
a bit of a conceptual gap
from the knowledge management
world and the standards
255
00:15:43,420 --> 00:15:44,080
world.
256
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,620
So where is the biggest payoff?
257
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:51,220
The biggest payoff is starting your KM
program in the right way and not hitting
258
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,580
one of these blind alleys.
259
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,620
The biggest payoff is knowledge management
implementations that work and work in
260
00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:00,380
a sustainable way that
avoid the trap that you've,
261
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:04,420
you've mentioned just now the trap of
personality of the charismatic leader.
262
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:07,980
When the charismatic leader goes,
everything collapses. .
263
00:16:07,980 --> 00:16:11,460
Exactly. Not a very good
sustainment model. No.
264
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,180
Or the chief executive whose,
whose baby it was, right.
265
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,940
Who then leaves and nobody wants
the baby. They're like, put.
266
00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:20,580
'Em out. What's the best
advice from Nick Milton?
267
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,220
For anyone that wants to
know more about knowledge
268
00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:27,053
management.
269
00:16:27,860 --> 00:16:29,940
? Well,
270
00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:34,340
this is where I plug the book that
I wrote with Patrick Lamb
271
00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:36,980
because as.
272
00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:41,060
Just by my book, and you'll have all
the answers. Is that what you're.
273
00:16:41,060 --> 00:16:45,460
Saying? In a way, because like
I said in the previous podcast,
274
00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:48,820
this is the book that I wish I'd had 20,
275
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,100
30 years ago because it would've
answered all of my questions.
276
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,340
We deliberately wrote it
in that format and it's,
277
00:16:56,340 --> 00:16:58,540
it's like a journey through
knowledge management.
278
00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:03,580
It's a bit light on the strategy piece
because I wrote a previous book with
279
00:17:03,820 --> 00:17:07,940
Stephanie Barnes called Designing
an Effective KM Strategy. So me,
280
00:17:07,940 --> 00:17:09,820
maybe you wanna buy that
one as well. .
281
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,500
If they come armed with
the I S O in your texts,
282
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:18,700
there should be absolutely
no reason they fail.
283
00:17:19,670 --> 00:17:21,460
There should be no reason. Absolutely.
284
00:17:21,570 --> 00:17:21,860
Okay.
285
00:17:21,860 --> 00:17:25,860
Well that's all I needed to hear because
that's the first time I've ever heard
286
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,180
any guarantee for, uh, kms. So
that's a helpful thing. Thank you.
287
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,900
You are very welcome. You're very
welcome. The next book is going to, uh,
288
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,580
be a little bit more specific about
the different context. In that one,
289
00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:43,740
you'll be able to see, okay,
I'm a kmr in in an N G O,
290
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,980
what's it gonna look like for me?
291
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,840
But also what does it look like in other
contexts and what can I draw from those
292
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:51,673
other contexts?
293
00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:54,040
Well that's exciting. When's
that coming out? Next.
294
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,920
Year? February maybe. All.
295
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:56,510
Right.
296
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:59,440
Well we will definitely have you back
on the show to talk about all of that.
297
00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:02,800
As it kicks off, what's
10 years gonna bring?
298
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:07,680
What's 10 more years gonna bring
to the world of the formal sense
299
00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:09,080
of knowledge management?
300
00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:10,800
Is that a question ? I'm.
301
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,080
Asking you. You're the co you're the
guru, you know stuff. Yeah, I, come.
302
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,360
On, I don't know the future. I think it,
I can think it can go a couple of ways.
303
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:20,040
Okay.
304
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,760
I think it can continue to
be consolidated as a robust
305
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,600
management discipline or I
think it can follow the various
306
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,280
technological hype curves.
307
00:18:31,820 --> 00:18:36,160
And there's always that push for novelty
308
00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:41,120
in the tech world because there's
always some new technology that
309
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,360
promises to completely overturn
km. Uh, first it was SharePoint,
310
00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:51,240
then it was enterprise search, then it
was, you know, knowledge engineering.
311
00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:56,760
Now it's chat G P T and these
are all focusing on the 20% of
312
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,520
the knowledge that's codified and
documented. And the rest, the 80%, is.
313
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,840
The 80 20 still a valid number?
I don't know. Even now I,
314
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,120
I know that's been a rule of thumb, but
I don't know where it came from. So I'm.
315
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,680
Just asking, I dunno where
it came from. Either.
316
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,360
, I've seen it used
everywhere. So I'm just curious.
317
00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:18,040
Uh, I dunno, what would.
318
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:18,830
You say it is now?
319
00:19:18,830 --> 00:19:23,520
What would you guess from your experience
in all these surveys and everything
320
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,800
you've written and read,
what would your guess be?
321
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,360
I think it depends very much on what the
sort of knowledge you're talking about.
322
00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:34,480
The sort of knowledge you're talking
about. Oh, interesting. If it's, you know,
323
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,640
knowledge of the, um,
knowledge of the Crimean war,
324
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:42,600
then all of that's documented.
If it's knowledge about how to,
325
00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:44,000
how to combat covid,
326
00:19:44,620 --> 00:19:49,520
it wasn't more than two years ago we
had zero documented knowledge. Even now,
327
00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:51,600
I'm not sure that there,
328
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,280
I think there are some reports going
around in the uk there's reports still
329
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,600
being created about how the
government handled Covid,
330
00:19:59,580 --> 00:20:04,360
but they will be so politically situation
that whether they'll be useful in the
331
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:06,160
next pandemic or not, I don't
know. Mm-hmm. ,
332
00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:10,520
it depends on the knowledge. Is it
old static knowledge? Is it new?
333
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,400
Continually evolving knowledge?
If it's continually evolving,
334
00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:16,400
then maybe 95% of it is in the heads.
335
00:20:17,260 --> 00:20:19,840
If it's old static knowledge,
all of it's in the books.
336
00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:25,040
You look at your context and
you decide what is the balance.
337
00:20:25,870 --> 00:20:29,120
That will vary by industry.
Um, for example, you know,
338
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,880
if you're writing customer manuals for
uh, Chevrolet Jeeps, that's, you know,
339
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,840
that's pretty old knowledge and
you can write that all down.
340
00:20:37,020 --> 00:20:41,440
But if you are writing
knowledge about how to build ai,
341
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,080
I bet none of that's written. Alright.
342
00:20:44,340 --> 00:20:45,173
How does that feel?
343
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,200
Excellent. Okay. Right. Well, I
guess we're pretty well done, aren't.
344
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,360
We? Well, thanks for being here today,
Nick. It's been a very enjoyable journey.
345
00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:55,520
Thank you very much for inviting me.
346
00:21:01,020 --> 00:21:05,840
If your company or organization would
like to help us continue this mission and
347
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,200
sponsor one of our shows, email,
348
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,880
B Y N T k@pioneerks.org.
349
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:26,880
You have just finished our latest because
you need to know a public service of
350
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,080
Pioneer Knowledge Services.
351
00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:33,280
Please join us on LinkedIn
and find us@pioneerkss.org.