UDSKRIFT 🔗
Andrew: Welcome to the Tri Dot Podcast. We are fresh off a hot weekend in the Triathlon world. This episode of the Tri Dot Podcast is airing the Monday after Kona Weekend, the Iron Man World Championships 2026. I watched, I watched glued to my TV on and off all day long. fantastic racing. Wow, what a great addition of the Iron Man World Championships. Both the men's and women's races were Dramatic all the way to the finish line, all the way to the final miles. the on the women's side, I think the athletes in contention late in the race was exactly who I expected it to be, with Taylor Nibb winning in dramatic fashion. On the men's side, it was equally dramatic, but it was not at all the athletes I expected to see in contention late into the race, with Vincent Louis winning his first ever Iron Man World Championship and his first I ever Kona. So Wow, what a great day of racing. It was great to watch it. we our our staff here at at Tridot was just buzzing all weekend in this morning on our on our Microsoft Teams chat with just coaches reporting in of their athletes that that won age groups, placed in age groups, had big PRs, had had great finishes. so a lot of tried out athletes on the island doing their thing. We see you, we recognize you. We're gonna try to get a few of them on the show here soon to hear their own personal Kona stories. I was watching actually the the athletes were on the bike course and I had it on TV and my three-year-old walks to the room and she goes, daddy, you have a bike like that. And I was You're right, I do have a bike like that. And she goes, Is that you? And I was like, No, that's not me. Like this race is actually happening right now in a place called Hawaii, and Daddy's here with you in the living room on the couch. and she was like, Well, why why aren't you racing? And so I was trying to explain how good you have to be, and how fast you have to be to To be in this race and be on the TV. And she was not understanding. She did not get, well, you have a bike and you're a triathlete. Why aren't you racing today in Hawaii like these other people? so that was comical. that was cute. It was fun. one day, one day maybe we'll see. but anyway, for our show today, I wanted to revisit a conversation I had in Hawaii. we we've done some podcasting about Kona, but there was one episode in particular. That we recorded from Kona. I sat down with Mark Allen and McKey Jones, who are coaches with Tridot. They coached through Tridot. and they sat down with me and Kona and they they've both won this race before, right, Mark, a number of times. McKeely once. and we just had a really good conversation, not about Kona in particular, but just about how to handle a pressure race. You know, there's sometimes you go out and do a race and and you just kinda it's kind of for fun or it's with some friends or it's with your training group and and it's just kind of a fun day at the races. And other times you go do a race, whether it's a sprint all the way up to full, and there's pressure because you want to PR or you wanna achieve a certain time or you wanna beat a certain somebody or you want to place in your age group, you wanna qualify. If you have a big goal attached to a race, whether it's just a local sprint or an Iron Man, you can roll into a transition that morning. you know, and start setting up and you feel the pressure. And Mark and McKealy, as former retired professional triathletes, they've both won some really big races. They know a thing or two about handling a pressure-filled race. And so we're we're not gonna do the warm-up, we're not gonna do the cooldown. I'm just gonna drop you guys right into the heart of the conversation where me, Mark, and McKealy were talking about how they coach their athletes through having a race that has pressure on it. Maybe somebody listening today will find themselves in Kona next year and you'll be able to take what they said to heart. So if you listen closely in the background, you can actually hear the waves of Kayalua Kona. w we recorded this right along the bay right there. And so enjoyed this one. Great conversation between me, Mark, and McKealy about pressure packed racing.
speaker-1: Unless you truly have ice flowing through your veins, the bigger the race, the bigger the pressure. A big race can be Kona. A big race can be that A race that just simply matters deeply to you. A big race can be shooting for a PR, or a big race could just be that upcoming local sprint down the road where you want to finish better than you did last year. If you care about it and the pressure ratchets up, it is a big race for you. And I love that we are hitting this topic with the two of you on the show because from the world championships for both of you, racing in Nice for Mark, the Olympics for you, McKey. I mean, there were just so many. Big races where all eyes were on the two of you. And I I'll just say that both of you had a fair amount of success in those races. so you know how to handle the pressure, you know how to be clutch when when when the intensity ratchets up. So what race from your career would you say you felt just the greatest amount of pressure to perform? And Mark, we'll start with you.
speaker-0: I would say probably the the race that was where I had the most pressure but where I felt like I I actually managed it best was my final Iron Man in nineteen ninety-five. You
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-0: know, a lot of people would say it must have been a lot of pressure in eighty nine, and it was because I hadn't won. This is gonna be my seventh time back. I did not know if I had what it took to win. I was just coming back that year to to just hopefully finally have my best race. Because I had let the pressure get to me in in the first six years that I raced here. And I when I say I let the pressure get to me, I mean that in the sense that I was coming in with a goal to win. And when I felt that that win start to the possibility of it start to
Load full transcript
slip away in the middle of the race because I was going through a bad patch or some my n nutrition wasn't working or whatever, all of a sudden that pressure just just suffocated me and I went from racing to then surviving to having to come up with a a a secondary reason to keep going. And but in nineteen eighty nine I I really came here just with that feeling like, you know what? Dave Scott might win again, somebody else might win again. But my commitment to this island and to myself and to my training partners and those who had supported me was to just come here and have a really strong swim bike and run. And that's if I can do that That will be fulfilling. And so I didn't have that same level of pressure. 1995, let's fast forward, I had won five years straight. I took 1994 away from Iron Man Racing because we had the birth of our son earlier that year. And I was burned out. I mean, that's another thing that athletes have to honor is that s sometimes that that buildup of sort of need for re real deep recovery. It it it builds up over time and you might be doing something one year that you did last year, and all of a sudden you're exhausted. You're like, I'm not doing anything different. Why am I feeling like this? Yeah. And it's really that need to that your your body is slowly kind of getting depleted on certain levels. Maybe your motivation is getting depleted on certain levels, and you just need to back away. It's it's not saying I'm giving up on the sport, I'm giving up on my big dreams. It's just saying, Let me. Let me regroup and that's what I did in nineteen ninety four. So coming back in nineteen ninety five, I was I had one five straight, Scott Molina won the the year or sorry, Greg Welsh won the year that I was not competing nineteen ninety four
speaker-1: Good for Greg? Yeah.
speaker-0: Yeah. He was he was first, Dave Scott was second at age forty, impressive beyond belief. Absolutely. But there was this huge pressure, like, okay, the dude's coming back, he's thirty-seven, nobody's won this race as a thirty-seven-year-old. At that point in history, now we've seen a lot of athletes really extend their careers beyond that early mid thirties, really sweet spot. Yeah. And nobody had won six and six starts. Dave won six, but he had a he had one where he didn't lose and he didn't win in there. So there was this huge expectation and There was only one place where people would cheer for me. That was coming across the line in first. If I came across the line second or or lower, people would have kind of gone, dude, you came back one, two many times. You should have just like friggin' retired, you know? And so but I at the same time was just in my own zone. And I think that's important for people to have what's what's your purpose for being on that start line beyond the the finish placing or the finish time? What experience are you hoping to gain from this journey that has nothing to do with any comparison to anybody else or even to a maybe younger version of yourself? Because a lot of athletes as we know that we coach at TriDot, they've been racing for a lot of years and they're not necessarily racing against their fellow competitors They want to match a time that they did fifteen years ago. Absolutely.
speaker-1: Before.
speaker-0: And you can never it's hard to win against your younger self, right? And so I was just in that space of I wanna come here one more time and once again give the best that I have to give. And and I knew that I had kind of pulled the last little bit of magic out of my bag of tricks that I wanted to try to get faster. And so that I said, This is The most fit that I can ever be, the most prepared on every level, physically, mentally, spiritually that I can be.
speaker-1: And did you know it was gonna be your last raise on the adds to the pressure, I imagine.
speaker-0: It it adds to the pressure, but at the same time it freed me up. Wow. Like I knew there were no more tomorrow's. This was it. This was gonna be the the final hurrah. Which meant that if things started to go south, it'd be like, no. Yeah, it was a it was a boohoo. But
speaker-1: Your last hurrah wasn't a hoorah.
speaker-0: at the same time, because I knew it was my last one I was able to go so deep within myself and pull out so much more because I knew there was I didn't need to keep anything in reserve for any more racing. This was it. And so, you know, one recommendation or one one thought to kind of keep in mind again, when you're going into that big race, why does this have meaning to you? What are you trying to gain from it? be willing to just embrace the journey of that day, especially if it's a a full Iron Man. It's going to be a journey. It's not going to be a one, two, you're done kind of thing, like a sprint, maybe an Olympic, even a 70.3. And to and ultimately for me, the most successful races are the ones where every time that little committee goes off in my head that's whining and saying, Wow, my legs are killing me. It's too hot. That competitor is too far ahead. I shouldn't have come back. I'm 37. Thomas Hell Regal's 13 years younger than me. Why did I do this? Yeah, Hell Regal is 13 and a half minutes ahead of me starting this marathon. This is so bad. You know, success is when you can take that noise and just tell yourself, shut up. Take a breath, pull back for a second, regroup, and then wrap your mind around something that you can control. Get to the next aid station, loosen up your stride, lower your shoulders if you're on the run, relax your cadence if you're going into the wind and getting blown all around. Whatever it is, give the best you have to give each and every moment. And as you can ask yourself that. Am I being the best version of myself right here? And if you're whining, I guarantee you the answer is gonna be a no. But if you see, if you can feel yourself kind of go, Okay, I got rid of those voices. It's background static now. Let me just let me just do what I've
trained myself to do. Let my body take over here. And then you start to absorb in it. And then the next thing you know, you're in this rhythm and you feel this flow and the miles are going faster and faster, even though you may even be going slower. And it becomes this experience, like all of a sudden you realize you're locked into the best you have to give. And that is so empowering. And And when you can find even if for a few moments in the race, that place where you go, I am locked in and I'm giving the best I have, that is a s a successful day.
speaker-1: McKee for you in your career. 'cause you you you had you know, Mark Mark in a lot of ways is was known for Nice, known for Kona, had some other big races in there as well. I mean, you you you did everything from Olympic distance, ITU racing, draft legal, Iron Man World Champion, from just that whole gambit. Like what what what race did you feel you had the most pressure on you to perform well?
speaker-2: You know, I I think one thing for me the journey was slightly different, of course, t t than Mark's. It's like I felt at the beginning of my career no pressure. Okay. There was no expectation. Yeah. You know, when I won my first world championship, did I think I was gonna win my world championship that day? I mean not really, but I knew I was like in great form. Yeah. And then definitely anytime you have to go back to defend It's always added pressure because you know what it feels like to win. You've been there, everyone's expecting the same. Yeah. Even though triathlon is the most dynamic sport in the world. There's there's there's nothing like compared to like pool swimming, for example, right? You swim down that black line, the water temperature competition p temperature is always the same. It's like the distances like in the pool is like usually in meters, sometimes in yards if you're doing like short course. But you know it's It's just so different that the more time you spend in the sport and if you're winning a lot, you know, I I definitely won a lot. So then, you know, I'd have athletes say to me, it's so easy for you, McKilly, 'cause you're just gonna win again.
speaker-1: And do the thing.
speaker-2: And that's the whole point, right? You still have to have the best swim, bike, and run. And I mean, I could tell you several points in my career where the pressure got to me. And I can tell you several points in my career that it was like nine times out of ten, if you win a race, then the pressure didn't get to you. Yeah. So I think in my perspective, you know, the pressure of race in the Olympics. Like as I said,
speaker-1: At home.
speaker-2: it's like Australia had finished. At the World Championships in 1999, first, second, third, fourth, and fifth. And you know, we were expected to win a gold medal. And then we had like a a performance review after the Olympics. And one of the well-known swim coaches in Australia, Laurie Lawrence, looked at me and said, Even you, McKealy, are disappointed with your silver medal. And I was like just flabbergasted. I'm like, I couldn't believe that they would say that because Olympics happen every four years. It's one day. Yeah. A moment in time that you have to prepare for. And sometimes athletes prepare for it all their life because they know that their sport is Olympic.
speaker-1: And there's so many athletes on that highest of levels that could take it on the day.
speaker-2: Yeah. And you know, you see a lot of people that do crumble under the pressure. And I think if you look at my record at world championships, you know, I've meddled at a lot of world championships. You have. And I sort of like knew that sort of what gave me confidence. The ability to know that, you know, under pressure, you know, I knew I could be very consistent. And like even my high school run coach. He would always like tease me. He's like, McKilly, when are you gonna blow up in a workout? Like every time I'm like, Why? You know, because p for me that was like A mental game in training, as well as you could use that in racing, the fact that if I'm consistent in training, I know I've done the work, that's the secret to doing well. And then, you know, if I came back and I kept winning on a course, that gave me confidence that I could win. And I think some of the lessons I learned was: don't change anything. Doesn't matter if it's a local race or an Olympic race, a way to take the pressure completely. Off is everything you usually do, keep that going. Okay. If your warm-up is like that at your local race, keep that at your Iron Man World Championships. If the food that you take is what you always take, that's why we practice it in training, right? Whatever we do in training, we transfer that. And I think that takes a lot of the pressure off.
speaker-1: 'Cause even though it's a big race, even though the the race might be more important.
speaker-2: I mean, hence why you do a warm-up, right? Yeah.
speaker-1: Steps are familiar.
speaker-2: Yeah, exactly. And I think that's like something that I really managed really well over my entire career, you know, making sure that every time I stepped up to the start line, like even at the Olympics, all these other athletes were not wanting to do media interviews. And I'm like, I've been doing them my entire career. I'm not gonna change anything. And I think that really helped me get through that Olympic experience. And then think about the Iron Man. Like here I was, identified myself as, you know, one of the best athletes in the world at short course. And I was throwing it all the way, right? High risk to go and do Iron Man. You know, that was a lot of pressure. But the one thing that Paul and Ubi Fraser told me that I think helped me so much is just treat it as a training day. Wow. It's just another swim, it's just another bike, it's just another run. And I think they were probably the the words of wisdom that I still live by and I still coach by. That, you know, treat it
just another training day. And so I think definitely the Olympics. Super pressure. Super pressure. High pressure. And you know, going to Iron Man. Super high, high pressure. And I think the other thing that I really learned over the years of dealing with that pressure, because I mean I succumbed to it many times. Well, I wouldn't say many times, but a few times I definitely succumbed to the pressure. I let people get in my head.
speaker-1: And you just you just didn't perform as strongly because of it? Okay.
speaker-2: And one thing I did learn is like never give your competition motivation to want to destroy you out on the race course.
speaker-1: Mark, you're laughing at that? Yeah.
speaker-2: No, but it's it's true. It's like always talk about yourself, never talk about your competition. And you know, that helps you. And like I was I mean, some people love to to smack talk. I
speaker-1: We've seen some of that in the pro field lately.
speaker-2: Yeah, and you know, if I smack talked I'd probably like Triton is the most humbling sport in the world. Yeah. It would definitely turn around and kick me in the butt. I learned I learned very early, like don't smack talk. yeah, so definitely that helped. And you know, when I talk to my athletes like when they're racing in Kona, right? This is a world championship. They feel the pressure. Yeah. They see the pressure. They think everyone else looks fitter than them. Yeah, sure. But I always tell them everyone's looking at you the same way. Yeah. You know, we're all fit. We all look fast. It's like I always thought, my goodness, that athlete looks way faster than me. But like as Mark said, you know, that that commentary that you have in your head. I mean, I call it your chimp brain. It's like you can't turn it off, but it doesn't mean you have to listen to it. Yeah. And I tell my athletes a lot, you know, that those things that go on in your head, we're all thinking the same. And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah, why did I get up in the morning? I why did I do this race? Why did I want to step up to an Iron Man?
speaker-1: Wha why am I a triathlet the first place? I I have so many other hobbies.
speaker-2: Yeah, so there's always that little voice in your head. I mean, that's really I feel where that that pressure comes from. You know, it's like having a good team behind you is really beneficial because they can sort of tune out that a little bit as well. Because I don't know a lot of the viewers may not know who Kathy Freeman is, but she was a four hundred meter Aboriginal runner who ended up winning The Olympics at the 400 meters. Wow. You talk about high pressure, like the whole nation expected her to win.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Every single Australian on that day expected to the w to win. And she sort of like had the same philosophy, like her management had sort of had the same philosophy that I developed, you know, from your massage therapist. They would give you confidence. the muscles feel
really good today. To your coaches, you know, you've done this. Everything that you've done in training, we prepared you for that moment. Your family support, your friends support, all that whole team, if you can surround yourself with a lot of positivity, that is key as well. You know, having a good team behind you is super, super important.
speaker-0: You know, that that reminded me of something that I just remembered I you know, in prior to getting to the start line in nineteen eighty nine, I I certainly felt that huge, immense pressure here in Kona. And part of the pressure was thinking, gee, if I don't perform it's gonna be death and doom and my life is gonna be over, kind of feeling like, you know, my friends are gonna leave me, my family's gonna be gone, and I'm gonna be this out I'm gonna be thrown out on the street, you know, whatever you
speaker-1: I mean I'm gonna I'm always gonna be the guy who was this close. Yeah.
speaker-0: Likes to win it. You just create all these odd scenarios in your mind. And literally the day before the race, I was walking along ready to t to check my bike in, and a neighbor from San Diego, his name is Corky. I saw Corky on the street and I didn't know he was there, and he goes, Hey Mark. And he goes, Hey, just have a great race out there and just know that no matter what happens, w we love you. And it just It's like, yeah. You know, and it it just really reminded me like, wow, yeah, no matter what happens tomorrow, my life is gonna go on. Things are gonna be okay. Corky will still be there and he will love me and his wife will love me and my family and friends will love me. And and you know, if to just embrace that that point beyond the end of the of the race and realize, yeah, my life will be okay. I will be okay no matter how the race turns out. And so then backtrack To the days before the race, so much of the pressure is in those days leading up to the event because you're you're creating all these scenarios in your mind of what might happen, and you have all these scenarios of things that you're trying to figure out how will I manage if they take place in the race? All the all the things that could go wrong, right? And you you can get overwhelmed with trying to figure out every scenario that might happen to you out there on the course, especially in an iron.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: but I guarantee you. i if any of those, even one of those shows up in the race, it will be so much easier to manage it and deal with it in the race than it was to think about how you might manage it and deal with it before
speaker-1: Absolutely.
speaker-0: the race. And so, you know, the athletes that I coach, espe you know, I just remind them, I say, race day will take care of itself. So in these days leading up to the race, first of all, remember it's okay to have anxiety, to have anticipation, because that is what is gonna help you Raise your performance.
speaker-2: I was just about to say that. Being nervous that's not
it.
speaker-1: So for your athletes, your goal as a coach, you're not trying to eliminate the nerves or the pressure. You're just trying to help them navigate that correctly.
speaker-0: Yeah, and you're trying to get it in that sweet spot where you know it's gonna help them have the race of their life.
speaker-1: Interesting.
speaker-0: If you're just like, you know I mean you do wanna treat it in in the race kinda like it is just another training day in the sense that I know I've got this, but at the same time that anticipation is what elevates you to that performance that you would never have in a training day.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: And so I I I I suggest in those days leading up to it, just Do the things that you c actually have control over in those days.
speaker-2: Yeah, that's so funny 'cause that's what I was just about to say. Control what you can control. Yeah. One of my favorite sayings. Control what you can control
speaker-0: We're like one mile.
speaker-2: the race, during the race.
speaker-0: Yeah, so you know, pack your nutrition, check your nutrition for the seventeenth time, whatever it is. You know, make sure that all the things you need on your bike are set. Make sure your gearing's working, make sure you've got your goggles, make sure your bags are packed. If you're not sure, unpack and repack It does not matter. But it those are the things you can control. And then in the race, you just manage everything that comes up and it will be again. so much easier to deal with it in the race than it is to think about dealing with it beforehand.
speaker-2: And I think the other thing that people need to understand is it's okay to freak out at some point. Sure. At some point there is a freak out. And it's like, as long as you apologize to the people that you freaked out on, that's a good thing. But you know, I remember one year, actually I think it was the year that I won. It's they were walking my back my bike afs after getting like the final mechanical rundown
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-2: and somehow they managed to crack my front wheel.
speaker-1: my goodness.
speaker-2: Could have totally freaked out, blah blah blah. You know what I did? I controlled what I can control, taking the stickers, my matching pink stickers that would match my complete bike, taking those decals on, and thanks to Zip, they supplied me a new wheel and I like spent that time putting those decals back on. Sure. So I utilized that that freak out possibility time to control the situation.
speaker-0: My my potential total meltdown moment was in my final Iron Man. My bike was in in the transition area and my my brother was he he did the all the mechanical work on my bike and he was helping me get Yeah.
speaker-2: Gary worked on my bike too for many years.
speaker-0: My brother Gary and he was helping get everything set up and I on the back I had my two water bottle cages, you know, and so I pulled my my bottles out that I was gonna stick in there to have ready to go. And I this is literally like moments before I'm gonna go down to the swim start. I stick them in the water bottle cages and the whole thing falls off on the ground. And Gary had this look of sheer terror in his face and and all I said is, make sure that is on my bike when I come out of the water.
speaker-1: And you went and you swam.
speaker-0: Yeah, there was nothing I could do about it. Like McKealy said, focus on what you can control.
speaker-1: And either he was gonna be able to take care of it or he wasn't. And either way you had to buy
speaker-2: You have another good story I had. I was doing two races in one weekend. And what's your biggest fear when you travel? my goodness, your bike doesn't show up. My bike didn't show up. Even the morning of the race, my bike still isn't there, but I, you know, did what I could control, got on an got another bike organized.
speaker-1: You still had the same fitness?
speaker-2: Yeah, and I'm still the same. I made sure you know, I had a bike in transition, so when I get out of that swim, it may not have been my bike. But there was a bike in transition. And you know what? Someone at the airport just happened to be a triathlete. She drove my bike. It finally arrived. She drove my bike from the airport to the race. And
speaker-1: Wow.
speaker-2: my good friend Mark Lees put it together while I was swimming. So do you know how happy I was when I got out of the water and it was
speaker-1: And you weren't expecting that.
speaker-2: my god, it made my race. And but you know the worst thing that happened? It was a swim bike run, swim bike, run. I broke my toe diving into the water the second swim.
speaker-1: So
speaker-2: no. Here I was, got my bike. I still won. I finished the race with a broken toe. But I was supposed to race the next day as well. That didn't happen. But you know, it's amazing, you know, again having a good team behind you. Yeah. You know, it makes a big difference. Sorry. Exactly.
speaker-1: This is the easiest Parkass episode for me. I'm I'm just
speaker-2: Well that's the thing, every time Mark says something, I'm like, holy cow, now I remember this.
speaker-0: Well, you know, sometimes w what for sure, like in a race, nothing ever goes perfectly, right? And that's just should be something
speaker-2: It's funny, right? Because I've had the worst feelings that I've ever felt that my goodness, this is gonna be the worst day ever and I win. You can win Yeah. And that's important for people to understand.
speaker-0: But also to to keep in mind that leading up to the race, things will never go perfectly either. And so to as best as you can, not let those things that did not go perfectly affect your race. Don't have that be the excuse for a bad race. And so my example of that, just like McKealy, I was racing in St. Croix, Half Iron Mendicence race. My bike did not arrive. It did not arrive. They got me a bike that did barely fit me from a local bike shop. I had it together and literally at
midnight at twelve thirty in the night I got my phones ringing in the hotel room. Your bike just arrived at you know, in the airport and we'll bring it by. And so it gets to the hotel about one thirty and so I put my bike together. Now it's like two thirty and I've got another only two hours to sleep.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: And so I I literally had to like just sit myself down and say, Okay, you're exhausted. You did not get the sleep that you need. This was like the most unrestful night before a race you've ever had, but you cannot use this a as an excuse to have a bad race. Period. You cannot let this be a reason to have a bad race. And I ended up winning and it was it was such a huge lesson for me, you know, with all the experience I'd had up to that point to to realize, yeah, you know what? Leading up to the race, a lot's gonna go perfect. Some of it's not, but those not moments can don't let those be your excuse to have A race that's less than what you have the potential to
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: I after listening to you, that's the other point I was gonna bring up, is the fact that sometimes when you aren't successful, that's when you learn so much more. So all those little things that have happened to you to you in the past, they're all great experiences that can help you when you need them.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: And it's like, you know, it could be you brought two front wheels to the race instead of
speaker-1: Did you do that, Mickey Lee?
speaker-2: I may have i I may have worn my b helmet backwards.
speaker-1: But they made for great great photo op.
speaker-2: Twice in the same race a year apart. Okay. You know, but that the whole point is it's like it's okay sometimes to fail. It's sometimes it's okay sometimes to have that breakdown before a race. Yeah. But it's how you respond to that will really shape what happens on race day. And in an Iron Man, that's so important, right? Because the whole day is a roller coaster. You feel good, you feel bad, you feel good, you feel bad. So control what you can control. Love that message. And I think the other thing is it's like it's never over. Doesn't matter how much you think that you're failing out there, know why you're out there. I think that's a big message that like has always helped me, particularly in an Iron Man, know why you're out there and have a really good reason. Don't do it for somebody else. You're doing it for yourself because Ultimately, it's not your coach that's going to get you across the finish line. Yes, they will prepare you to the best, but ultimately it's how you handle the physical dick conditions, it's how you handle the climatic conditions, and it's how you handle that chimp brain.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: And you know, all of you ha out there who race, you have your support crew, you have your family, your friends who have helped you get to that start line, who've helped you prepare. And I'm sure if you're training for an Iron Man that they have sacrificed a lot to support you in this journey. On race day, they so they have done their job. They have helped you. And then on race day, this is your time. And so in those moments where you might feel like giving up or, you know. The chimp brain goes off. Remind yourself, this is my time. This is the day where I get to show them what I can do through their support. And that is such a that's such a foundation of strength. And it helped me so many times in those down moments where I kind of wanted to give up. I'm like, if I give up, that will not honor those people who have helped me out. I could not be here without their support, without their help. You know, my family, my friends, my training partners, my advisors, my mentors, this is my time. And they ultimately don't care if I get first or second or last. They just want to know that I gave the everything that I had on that race day. And and and they will see it. They will know if I struggle and I have a a a bad race, but I made it through and I didn't give up, they will see that and they will know that their help was honored. And it will it'll complete that circle. So remember those people who are helping you out and who helped you out.
speaker-1: to get there. I I think a lot of times we put the pressure on ourselves, right? Because we we have all that support crew. We have our friends and family. We have our our peers in the sport and and they they believe in you. They love and support you no matter how the race goes. my my wife is an accountant for PWC. She works in the P W C Dallas office. And Pricewaterhouse Cooper's Dallas Tax Department thinks that I am just the fittest person they've ever encountered. I know that I go to Iron Man Waco and finish three hundredth out of a field of seven hundred athletes at Iron Man Waco. I am not the fittest person. I'm here. I I was on the flight here to Kona and and the lady sitting next to me on the plane was like, so what what race did you qualify at? And I was like, I'm very flattered that you look at me and and you say, That's a guy who looks like he qualified to be here. I'm I'm going for work. I'm not racing, I'm a I'm a twelve-hour Iron Man athlete, I'm not a ten-hour qualifying athlete. but but I say it to say The people in our lives, our our our friends, our family, our peers, the people that we encounter, like just the fact that you are an an average triathlet. Like you you you are something in their eyes that people admire you already for that. Win, lose, PR, non PR. Like like go out there, do the best you can with the fitness you have on the day. Do what you can the roll through the moments as the punches come your way. And and and just enjoy the day from there. And let let the whatever the result is, it's gonna be what it's gonna be. But you have to go out there and just do the best you can for yourself, right?
speaker-2: No, exactly. But one thing that I always did like leading into the race was definitely I would take a moment before
the race and then a moment right before the start where I would just close my eyes and just visualize what I wanted to do on that day. Okay. And it's amazing that sense of calm that would come over you and I'd visualize where I would be in the swim, how I would feel on the bike, how I would feel when I got off the bike. But I always remembered how fantastic it would. At the end of that visualization, how fantastic it would to finish.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Like the spectators, the volunteers, you know, they're the ones that make the race, right? As well. It's like you are by yourself, but you're not. Because you have those volunteers, you have the spectators. Like as Bob Babbitt would always say, hey, training's the hard part. When you when you get to the start line, it's all catered.
speaker-1: Yeah, that's so true.
speaker-2: Yeah, so I think like just spending like a few moments to visualize how you feel that race is gonna pan out. Like when I finished second here at my second ever Iron Man, my first attempt in Kona in 2005, I actually dreamt that I got second. Really? And I'm like, why didn't I dream I won? But you know it's a it's amazing how that subconscious can turn into reality and one of my biggest things that I tell people, dream it, believe it, live it.
speaker-1: Wait, I know both of you really enjoy working with age group athletes. And and you have age group athletes that you coach that are elites that are here racing in Kona this week, you have age group athletes that are very average, like me. You have age group athletes that are fairly new to the sport and are still figuring it out and just and just having a good time learning from you. When you're in those conversations with them and you know they have a big race on the calendar, you know that race means a lot to them. What are those kind of conversations like? What do you find yourself saying to them to kind of kind of help them deal with the pressure? I think it's one thing on race morning. You wake up and you go through the motions, you know how to go through the motions, but kinda that that that week leading up, those two weeks leading up, when you really have time to get that chint brain going, to get that voice in your head talking to you. Mark, what do you find yourself saying to those athletes as they're getting, you know, a a week or so closer and closer to race day and they're they're freaking out a little bit from the pressure?
speaker-0: You know, there's there's no one size fits all answer to that because the pressure that somebody feels or the anxiety that somebody feels can come from many different sources. One person it might be they're freaked out about the swim, another person might be they're freaked out about the heat, someone else it could be just they they they don't know if if they're ready, if they've they can manage the distance. You know, everybody has their own sort of specific things that they're that cause them that anxiety that can take the excitement over the edge it from being positive to a negative. So I have to really sort of personalize the message for each person.
speaker-1: Yeah, that makes sense.
speaker-0: but basically, you know, I just remind them one, they've they've done the training, they're ready. The second thing I remind them is it's okay to have nerves, to h have anxiety. I said and as we've spoken about, just do the things that you have control over in these days leading up to the race. And as McKeyley said, you know, just take time to reflect on how you want the day to go. And I also remind people that I I had my sort of sayings or mantras that I was gonna pull up when when things got tough, you know, like let's say on the marathon, I had some I had practiced and visualized, you're running light as a feather, you know, or whatever it is. And and I I tell the athletes, I go, you know what? Those didn't work for me. And I'll tell you why. First of all, usually I couldn't even remember what they were. You know, so I Yeah,
speaker-1: Well once you were there in the moment. Yeah.
speaker-0: when I'm in the moment. And then secondly
speaker-2: yeah.
speaker-0: yeah, yeah, yeah. That one about the marathon, I feel light as a feather. No, I feel like I I weigh about a thousand pounds and I can barely move. And so I didn't even in the moment when it was challenging, I didn't even believe those things.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: And when my family and friends there, they're like, You look Great. I'm like, no, I don't. And yeah,
speaker-1: I know what I look like.
speaker-0: I know what I know what I feel like. Yeah. And so I just remind them when you have those moments, just take a deep breath, get relaxed, bring your shoulders down, get your breathing to go deeper, slow your breathing rate, slow your your effort, drop your effort level back a little bit. Regroup. Quiet your mind. Regrouping is not giving up.
speaker-1: You can always regroup.
speaker-0: It's important to regroup and to just expect that yes, you will have those moments. And then you kind of quiet your mind and all of a sudden things start to loosen up and you start flowing again. And that, yeah, now I'm in the flow, and you're kind of like, okay, this is cool again. And then all of a sudden, you know, I remind them once you hit nirvana, you're not gonna be there forever. You're gonna have another one of those moments and another and another and another. So just Keep bringing yourself back to that place of quiet, of self-confidence, of of doing what you getting out of your way so that you can do what you've trained your body to do. It knows how to do it.
speaker-1: Mikhaili, what do you find yourself saying to your coach athletes when they're coming up to a pressure race?
speaker-2: So think about this case scenario that one of my athletes has. He's gonna be in the sight he's sight impaired. So think about someone like him who's come to Hawaii for the first time. He raced as basically, I would say, like I
call it abled bodied, and now he is sight impaired. So think about how dramatic the difference is. of those two different experiences. Yeah. And think about the sensory overload that he is having right now in this moment. You know? It's like very similar to an able-bodied athlete, but so much more that he has to take into account. Right? So for someone like him, I'm gonna tell him the same thing as I tell everyone else. Even though his anxiety level is very different because of that that impairment. I'm gonna tell him the same thing. And very similar to what Mark says. It always comes back, control what you can control. It's okay to be emotional, but make sure you center it. Make sure you come back and as Mark said, take a moment to regroup. You know, understand that this is part of the journey. You know, an Iron Man World, particularly here at Iron Man, right? An Iron Man World Championship. It's very, very special and yes, there is that added pressure. But don't forget that you need to take the time to go through those emotions. Don't ignore them. I'm like, go through them, understand them, and then use them to your benefit. So I'll be like telling him when I meet with him later. It's like, you know what, all those emotions you've had all race week, there's a reason why you had them. And when you're out there on the course, try to refocus that energy that you had, you know, like he was saying, you know, how proud his dad. was gonna feel, who's no longer with us. Right? So using that emotion in a good way. Don't let that emotion drain you. And I think that's a big mistake that people who come in, you know, thinking like with a purpose other than just swim, biking and running out there, that don't let that emotion drain you. Use it to your benefit. So if you are having a moment, Smile. Just a simple smile can make a big difference and take a big deep breath. I always tell people like belly breath all the way down past your belly button.
speaker-1: Okay.
speaker-2: Take that belly button breath and go, you know what? My dad's gonna be so proud of me right now.
speaker-1: Wow.
speaker-2: I'm gonna keep pushing forward. Even though at this moment I feel like I cannot take another step, I'm gonna utilize that. And like Mark's right about like the mantras. I I would like I would do the other way. I would like try to like psych out my competitors that I'd come up with this song that was really annoying and start singing it. Out loud. No, like before the race, so it would be in their head. But mantras like never really worked for me. It was always like okay, think about your nutrition, think about how my feel like
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: my pedal technique, my run technique, the belly breathing, you know, those little things. That's what I'll discuss with each one of my athlete, you know, on the swim. Think about a little bit about technique.
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: Rather than going, my goodness, my heart rate is so high, I'm so nervous. It's like, think about that. Like on the bike, the same thing. How's my pacing? How's my nutrition? How's my energy level? How's my mental focus? Do I need some caffeine?
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-2: And you know, on the run, it's the same again. It's like, okay, how am I feeling? How's my form? rather than like focusing on those mantras, it's like controlling what you can control.
speaker-1: And that's always helped me is to make it tangible. And and I think for me, we we talked at the beginning of the main set here about what what race in your career did you feel the most pressure. For me, the race in my career where I felt the most pressure was my first 70.3. I was intimidated by the distance. My wife and I had flown halfway around the world to New Zealand to do 70.3 New Zealand. And so you do all this travel, you go through all this this training. You you do your first big training cycle for a long race. And and I just remember thinking like Like what if I wake up and there's like a a massive thunderstorm, we don't get the race and we put all this work in. And and so I I just felt pressure of having gone through the effort to to have that race of just wanting it to go well, you know? And and I always tell people, no matter how much pressure I feel heading into a race, I always have those nerves. I have that anxiety, I feel that pressure for maybe the first one hundred yards, one hundred meters. And that's
speaker-2: As soon as the gun goes off, I'm happy.
speaker-1: What what once I'm in the water and I've swam those first fifty yards, fifty meters, it it's it's a reminder that like, I I'm in the water swimming. I know how to swim. I've done this a hundred times. And and and once you get in that familiar situation, well sure it's a big race day, it's a it's a pressure race day, but you're doing something you know how to do and that you trained how to do. And I I love early in the main set when both of you were just sharing just each of you, as great as your career was and as many things as you accomplished, you you still showed up to the starting line with pressure. With doubts, with things that went wrong logistically leading up to that race, not knowing what bike was gonna be waiting for you in transition when you got there, not knowing what state your bike was gonna be in. And I think as an age grouper, it's interesting to note that that no matter what level you ascend to in this sport, race day is gonna be race day. Things are gonna go wrong and you just have to roll with it and have the best day that you can roll with punches. What the day gives you. And and so it it's funny, I I'm I'm Scanning through the questions I had scripted for this episode and you guys just naturally riffing. I think this is probably the most organic conversation we've had on the Tri Dot podcast. You you
speaker-2: That's why we didn't want to see the question.
speaker-1: like Mark Mark Allen always refuses to see the questions in advance. And Mikhail, you were
speaker-2: To know what the topic is, so I'm good. I mean that's where that experience comes.
speaker-1: Right.
speaker-0: You know, one last reminder for all the athletes l listening that things don't have to go perfectly to have an amazing day. you know, a story from my career as as you mentioned in in my bio, I won the Nice International Triathlon ten times out of ten starts, which to me is more amazing than win six times because I I didn't win here six times, but in Nice every time I started ten different years I won it. But one year I woke up And I was achy and I had a little bit of a fever and I thought, I can't race. I'm sick. And and then I go, well, you know, I f I'm I flew all the way here. All
speaker-1: I put in all that effort
speaker-0: that effort. You know, I'm I'm thinking about Andrew in New Zealand and what
speaker-1: know, of course. I'm an inspiration team. Yeah, you are.
speaker-0: absolutely. And I thought, just do the swim and then you can drop out. And so I went through the swim and I came out of the water and I was still feeling achy, but I thought, you know. Maybe I should just get on the bike and I you know, I can just pull out at any point. And so I got on the bike and I was going through the bike ride, and next thing I know, I'm at the end of the bike, and I'm thinking, I certainly don't feel perfect, but maybe I'll just start the run. And then by the time I got to the turnaround of the run, I had moved into second place. Scott Tinley was just a couple minutes ahead of me on the road, and I'm like my God. I started this day feeling so sick that I wasn't even going to race and now I'm in second place in position to put possibly win. And I ended up ended up passing him going on for a win that day. And so for me that was such an amazing, potent lesson. As McKey said, some of the biggest lessons come out of the toughest moments. A day where I literally was sick at the start of the day, I ended up winning one of the biggest races of my entire career.
speaker-1: And we've had so many trut out athletes that I've seen post to our Facebook group just saying, I had a race this weekend, I didn't think I could do it, the training wasn't perfect leading into it, I didn't feel great, maybe I got sick a week or two before the race and and and you know what? Maybe they didn't end up with the race they wanted initially. But they always respond, I got through it, I reached that finish line, it was a great moment, and I'm glad I'm glad I went out there and did it. And I
speaker-2: I think my takeaway from Mark is break the race down.
speaker-1: Yeah. Get out of one one leg at a time.
speaker-2: Get to the first turn turn boy, get to the second, get to the turnaround. You know, that's how you should be racing anyway, because that's part of the motivation, right? I just need to get to the next aid station, I just need to get to the turnaround, I just need and then in the end I just need to get to the finish. And I think that's important, like have the best swim you can on the day you're given, have the best bike you ha can have on the day you're given, and have the best run you can have on the day that you're given.