Fuld transskription af Practical logic on omega-3 in human nutrition and perspective on what gets lost in translation

00:05:08.819 --> 00:05:13.819 grow hair, that's fine with me, because it's going to do they're going 57 00:05:13.819 --> 00:05:15.259 to do good things all over the body. They're going to do good things 58 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:20.180 for the brain and the heart and in the joints and and and and so 59 00:05:20.420 --> 00:05:27.410 forth. So that's a perspective that people should always bear in mind when they 60 00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:32.370 reading one isolated study. That's a that's a great point. If we talk 61 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:39.120 about specifics, so EPA DH are the key forms of a megathree in fish, 62 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:44.319 seafood and fish oil. Maybe you can explain the difference between EPA and 63 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.720 Dha, and I realize this is just the question. That could be an 64 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:50.550 entire podcast, but I'd love for you to give listeners just maybe the basic 65 00:05:50.750 --> 00:05:57.990 differences between EPA and Dha. EPA and Dha are two different, to make 66 00:05:58.069 --> 00:06:03.029 it three fatty acids. They have different chemical structures that but they're very closely 67 00:06:03.149 --> 00:06:08.420 related from a metabolic point of view. One can be converted into another. 68 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:14.500 We know that. But we also know that metabolically there are barriers of converting 69 00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:19.050 EPA to Dha and Dacha back to EPA. So that's why the two of 70 00:06:19.129 --> 00:06:28.209 them actually are separate and appear separately in in tissue and are distributed differently in 71 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:33.639 tissue. They also, in tissue, have different functions. Some of them 72 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:43.240 are overlapping functions, but they they will appear differently in membranes and they and 73 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:48.910 they have their own distinct functions. Where is Dha found in the body? 74 00:06:50.470 --> 00:06:59.110 Dha is found in essentially all neural tissue. So it's very high in the 75 00:06:59.269 --> 00:07:04.899 brain, in the neural parts of the retina, which really is a part 76 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:11.060 of the brain. It's high in the peripheral nervous system, that is, 77 00:07:11.139 --> 00:07:16.930 the part of the nervous system that's outside the skull, and it's high in 78 00:07:17.569 --> 00:07:23.730 some specific places. In example, Bill would be the test. He's it's 79 00:07:24.089 --> 00:07:30.560 it's high, and the tests those are the biggis. There are other pockets 80 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.600 of Dha in various places, but those are the ones that always come to 81 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:40.000 mind. That is fascinating. Some going to jump to a topic that's been 82 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:46.110 very, very high profile because of heart health month, and that is we 83 00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:49.990 hear a lot about a Maga threes for cardiovascular health and I dislike to understand 84 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:55.829 your opinion of why people got interested in a Maga threes for cardiovascular health, 85 00:07:55.870 --> 00:07:59.379 if you could maybe give us a little background and how that that came about. 86 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:07.379 Yeah, so back when I was an aspiring scientist, or perhaps even 87 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:15.810 before that, it was in really the nine s that a pair of researchers 88 00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:26.170 from Denmark went to Greenland and studied the natives of that area and their cardiovascure 89 00:08:26.209 --> 00:08:28.800 disease and found they had very low cardio of ascot disease, and then connected 90 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:37.919 that to their intake of marine foods, specifically fish and and marine mammals, 91 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:46.750 and they also showed that a very high amount of intake of these mega threes 92 00:08:46.870 --> 00:08:50.909 from fish caused a very high amount of EPA in the blood and that very 93 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:56.059 high amount of EPA and blood, and very high relative to let's say Americans, 94 00:08:56.580 --> 00:09:01.460 and that very high level reduced the tendency of blood to clot. The 95 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.220 tendency of blood to clot is closely related to CARDIOVASCAR disease. So that was 96 00:09:05.299 --> 00:09:11.169 actually the s and there was a series of four papers, let's say, 97 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:16.090 that really got people going on a cardiovascular story and at that time EPA was 98 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.370 the one that everyone was emphasizing for cardiovascar disease. That's gone back and forth 99 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:26.080 over the I got I got involved in science probably well in the late s 100 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:31.200 and I was an Undergrad and nutrition major and worked in a lipids labin and 101 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.200 learned about a lot of the stuff and I've kind of watched it go from 102 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.470 EPA being the really good guy to Dha being a really good guy, to 103 00:09:39.549 --> 00:09:41.230 EPA being the good guy, and it just kind of goes back and forth. 104 00:09:41.269 --> 00:09:46.909 People switch between the two and and occasionally they throw in another Ramaga three 105 00:09:46.950 --> 00:09:48.710 called DPA, but will won't get into that one. At any rate, 106 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.500 it's been it's kind of been like that. So that's really the origin of 107 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:58.139 the cardiovascular story. There is another part of the cardiovascular story that's relevant, 108 00:09:58.179 --> 00:10:05.659 which is the reduction in the tendency of the heart to stop beating upon a 109 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:11.769 heart attack. So we call that eventricular a Rhythmia, and those events. 110 00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:16.210 So so when a person has a heart attack, the heart can stop beating 111 00:10:16.730 --> 00:10:22.000

and if a shock is not administered, then you get sudden death. That's 112 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.039 why people die of sudden death at heart attack. Well, it was shown 113 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:31.120 in roughly around one thousand nine hundred and ninety that an infusion of a megathrees 114 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.830 could make the heart much more robust to that phenomena and and that that was 115 00:10:35.909 --> 00:10:41.750 replicated in human studies afterwards. And so there's really two things. One is 116 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:43.870 that you don't have as many heart attacks. The second as you don't die 117 00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:50.539 of the heart attack as as often when EPA Dah a are higher in the 118 00:10:50.659 --> 00:11:00.620 Diet. Like what you hear so far, make sure you never miss a 119 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:05.090 show by clicking the subscribe button now. This podcast is made possible by listeners 120 00:11:05.169 --> 00:11:09.009 like you. Thank you for your support. Now back to the show. 121 00:11:16.210 --> 00:11:20.480 Just to make a three in hard health is such an important topic and I'd 122 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.159 love to explore that more, but we have limited time today. So I 123 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.600 want to jump to the brain or neurocognitive health, and I know that's a 124 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.190 big leaf from cardiovascular health, but curious. Why did people suspect that a 125 00:11:33.629 --> 00:11:37.070 make it three had a row a neuro cognitive health? Yeah, that's a 126 00:11:37.149 --> 00:11:43.190 great question and it actually has a fairly simple answer. Why did people suspect 127 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:48.539 that calcium had something to do with bones? Because calcium's always found in bones. 128 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:54.740 That's why. So the reason that people thought that Omega three is had 129 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.820 something to do with neurocognitive health is that Omega three, and specifically Dacha, 130 00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:03.850 is always found in brain tissue and even from the from the earliest days. 131 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:11.169 The discovery of Dha came from a sample of pig brain. Actually that's where 132 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:18.360 it was first isolated and then characterized later on. Studies in the s among 133 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:24.639 many species, thirty forty species of animals, found that Dha levels are virtually 134 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.440 the same in all species, while other fatty acids are very different. And 135 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.350 there and and Dha levels are different in other organs from species of species, 136 00:12:33.590 --> 00:12:37.070 but all species have about the same amount of dacha in their brains. So 137 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:39.789 okay, that's beginning to sound a lot like calcium, isn't it? Calcium 138 00:12:39.830 --> 00:12:43.789 in the bones. You can't make good bones without calcium. You can't make 139 00:12:43.830 --> 00:12:48.419 good brains without Dha. So that's what got people really interested in the first 140 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:52.379 place. So what is the best evidence then, for the role of a 141 00:12:52.460 --> 00:13:00.009 mega three in neurocognitive health? Well, I would cite that first bit of 142 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:07.370 evidence, that Dha is always present in neural tissue, and I would second 143 00:13:07.929 --> 00:13:11.490 site what I would call preclinical data. We talked about preclinical data. That 144 00:13:11.529 --> 00:13:20.360 would be animal studies that show that when a megathrees are reduced in the Diet 145 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:26.039 and when there's an a megathree deficiency, you get all manner of neurocognitive abnormalities. 146 00:13:26.230 --> 00:13:31.470 Anything you could measure, from the biochemical to the running of mazes, 147 00:13:31.669 --> 00:13:35.629 to sensitivity to neurotoxins, to you name it, is messed up in the 148 00:13:35.750 --> 00:13:39.590 offspring. So if you make a if you make a pregnant animal deficient in 149 00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:43.580 the Magathrees, you you can look anywhere you want and you find a mess 150 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:46.259 and so some of that is number one, that really says look, this 151 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:54.259 thing is that these are megathrees are critical for brain development. And and then 152 00:13:54.460 --> 00:14:01.850 we have numerous studies that show that adding DH A to, let's say, 153 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:05.409 infant formulas, and that was one of the areas that was studied early on 154 00:14:05.570 --> 00:14:13.759 in the S, improves cognitive performance in infants. But importantly, also in 155 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:20.559 some of the most compelling data is on vision, where vision, visual development 156 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.990 is accelerated in infants. And we think of vision as a separate thing from 157 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:30.470 the brain, but it really isn't. The the the the neural part of 158 00:14:30.509 --> 00:14:35.750 the retina is the part of the brain that we can see. We can 159 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.299 see it and it's the part of the brain that's looking out on the world, 160 00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:41.659 and so it really is a part of the brain and there are certain 161 00:14:41.659 --> 00:14:46.700 aspects of that. They can be measured much more conveniently than deep brain structures, 162 00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:50.500 and so there's this is very good evidence on that and, in my 163 00:14:50.580 --> 00:15:00.330 opinion, showing that more DHA is associated with faster visual development. A lot 164 00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:05.090 of great information. So I question what happens if we do not have enough 165 00:15:05.250 --> 00:15:13.759 a mega three in our bodies. Well, attention has turned in recent years 166 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:18.679 away

from the early days of what we used to call acute deficiency conditions, 167 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:24.269 that is, keeping an animal alive and apparently healthy, to to simply look 168 00:15:24.269 --> 00:15:31.029 at let's say in normal activity levels, to considering Omega threes as a specific 169 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:35.509 case of a nutrient and their role in both development and neural developments is not 170 00:15:35.590 --> 00:15:41.340 an easy thing to measure, and also for the reduction of chronic disease risk. 171 00:15:41.860 --> 00:15:48.659 So we talked about that also as a requirements and in in recent years 172 00:15:50.169 --> 00:15:56.169 we've come to clarify that Omega threes, at least against the background of our 173 00:15:56.330 --> 00:16:02.009 current we call them Western diets, let's just say, the American food supply. 174 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:03.600 But I think this applies all over the world. It's really beginning to 175 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:14.639 apply in in some developing countries that adequate to Maga three is required for forces, 176 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:18.830 for lowering of chronic disease and for for Nero Development, for reasons that 177 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:25.110 we've discussed. Dr Brand I read an article recently and, knowing you were 178 00:16:25.149 --> 00:16:27.029 going to be with us today, I wanted to ask the question. We 179 00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:33.899 hear about genes. What's known about genes and a megathree? Oh My, 180 00:16:33.740 --> 00:16:41.779 so, Greg people have been studying genes in a mega three for several years 181 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:52.490 now. There's a considerable amounts that is known about the interindividual variability in the 182 00:16:52.730 --> 00:17:00.409 use and the metabolism of Omega threes and Omega Sixes, because that's we talked 183 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:07.240 about a magathrees a lot at that's a subject of this conversation. But from 184 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.000 a metabolic point, if you they make a sixes are in there and we 185 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:21.109 know that among the the strongest influences that the genome has a nutrients and nutrient 186 00:17:21.150 --> 00:17:25.990 utilization is actually on these mega threes in a Maga sixes as they come into 187 00:17:26.029 --> 00:17:29.190 the body. And now these are still relatively early days. I mean we 188 00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:32.779 like to say that we've sequenced the genome and it sounds like we know everything 189 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:36.420 there is to know about it. Don't believe any of that. We've sequenced 190 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:40.180 a lot of the genome, but but we haven't sequenced all of it. 191 00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:44.849 We've sequenced the genes that code for proteins. We've sequenced but we don't know 192 00:17:44.930 --> 00:17:47.849 what a third of those proteins do. We don't know how a lot of 193 00:17:47.970 --> 00:17:52.569 them are regulated. We and and there's layer upon layer of subtlety about how 194 00:17:52.650 --> 00:18:00.000 this all works. And and and my head spins when I read the literature 195 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:07.240 and and and see yet another thing that has popped up that affects metabolism and 196 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.519 points to yet another set of genes that I might have to look at in 197 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:17.670 order to understand exactly what's going on. So let's just say that we've got 198 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:23.190 a pretty good idea. In fact, I think it's a lock that some 199 00:18:23.390 --> 00:18:30.819 of the most important influences of the genome on human metabolic status and nutritional status 200 00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:37.660 operate at the level of these. These are megathrees in a mega sixes Dr 201 00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:40.700 Burn. I think the last question I want to ask you today is there's 202 00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:45.730 so many conflicting reports than the news about a megathree. How do our listeners 203 00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:55.450 make sense of all this information? Right? So there's a bit of background 204 00:18:55.450 --> 00:18:59.839 that that one ought to think about when you when you when you think about 205 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.480 a study. So almost all studies are designed where there is an experimental group 206 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.839 in a control group and and you would minister or Maga three to one group 207 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:14.109 or more magathree two to one group and then and none or less to a 208 00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:17.990 control group, and you compare an outcome. So that outcome could be visual 209 00:19:18.029 --> 00:19:22.869 acuity, it could be depression, it could be some aspect of cardiovascular health. 210 00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:29.539 Okay, and your hypothesis typically will be that the Amegathree group will be 211 00:19:29.859 --> 00:19:34.339 superior to the control group. Okay, fair enough. What we talk about 212 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:41.170 almost exclusively is we say that the study was positive if it confirms the hypothesis, 213 00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:45.130 or at least as consistent with the hypothesis, that a Magathree has a 214 00:19:45.170 --> 00:19:52.680 positive influence on the on the upcome, or we say that the study was 215 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.119 and often people will apply the word negative when there wasn't any difference. But 216 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:03.240 what that ignor is is a very important subtlety that that never makes it into 217 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.349 the into the news stories, which is that those studies could just as easily 218 00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:12.029 find that there's a negative effect of a megathrees. So it's so there are 219 00:20:12.069 --> 00:20:17.349 really three outcomes. One is positive, one is neutral, much better word, 220 00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:22.539 no difference, and one is

negative. You almost never see negative. 221 00:20:22.539 --> 00:20:26.420 I really have to scan my memory banks to even think of anything that's ever 222 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:30.180 been seen that was negative. So so one thing to remember is that the 223 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:38.089 studies almost universally are either positive or neutral. Now that points to a positive 224 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:44.769 overall effect. And so so what you can have confidence in, at the 225 00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:52.319 very least in reading these studies is to understand that the emegathrees aren't going to 226 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.160 do harm, the amegathrees are going to have a positive effect, or at 227 00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:00.920 least do no harm. And but on net one expects that there's going to 228 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.390 be a positive effect, and there's subtle reasons why that's the case. We've 229 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:10.349 seen a lot of studies, clinical studies, where a megathrees are administered to 230 00:21:10.549 --> 00:21:18.779 individuals regardless of their megathree status. So this is a little bit like administering 231 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:25.539 vitamin C to people who are not vitamin C deficient. So if you're not 232 00:21:25.660 --> 00:21:30.380 deficient in the in the nutrient, then administering it to you, giving it 233 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:33.410 to you, isn't going to help anything if you're not deficient. I mean 234 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:37.529 a friend of mine likes to say that in frustration over one of these things. 235 00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:41.130 He says, yes, it is true that Omega three did not improve 236 00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:48.799 depression in people who are not depressed. So and so we actually see a 237 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.640 fair amount of that. And so if you have a study where half two 238 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:57.319 people have no Omega three deficiency and have two people do have some kind of 239 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:02.670 an a megathree deficiency, the ones that have no Amaga three deficiency are going 240 00:22:02.750 --> 00:22:04.269 to be averaged in with the others and you may end up when the n 241 00:22:04.509 --> 00:22:11.990 result. So that's a subtlety that layman, your listeners may not really get, 242 00:22:11.109 --> 00:22:15.589 but it really is there. And some of the sages in this field, 243 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:21.339 I have in mind the late great she'll in us of the Vancouver Canada, 244 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:29.619 and she had wrote several papers towards the end of her life that pointed 245 00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:33.450 out that maybe ten percent of people might be deficient for a particular outcome. 246 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:40.170 But then you have everybody in, everybody thrown into the group and it just 247 00:22:40.329 --> 00:22:42.609 washes out the effect. And so we need to design our studies better. 248 00:22:42.650 --> 00:22:47.200 That's actually part of it and some people are starting to do that. And 249 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.119 so when you say, well, I'm only going to measure the people that 250 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.920 are in the in the in the bottom half, that come in in the 251 00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:00.029 bottom half of the megathree status in my among my participants, and and when 252 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:04.470 you do that you begin to see much more significant effects, actually so so 253 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:07.430 in that sense you can think of it a little, a little like a 254 00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:12.420 vitamin, where I mean people think about a vitamin, is they they don't. 255 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:15.380 They're not taking a multi vitamin because they think they're deficient to know all 256 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:18.619 vitamins. They're taking a multi vitamin because they think they may not be getting 257 00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:21.940 enough of this or enough of that and it's not going to hurt so so 258 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:26.059 I might as well take it at there's a little bit of mindset like that 259 00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:30.049 that that really does apply, and I think that's it's a reasonable way to 260 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:33.609 think about it as a layman. Thank you so much for addressing that question 261 00:23:33.690 --> 00:23:37.690 and for something that up so well and for really helping this makes sense of 262 00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:41.920 all this today. I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you 263 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.039 to come back for another podcast, because I feel like we're just hitting the 264 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.440 tip of the iceberg on all the great information that you have. Oh, 265 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:52.359 I'll be glad to do that anytime and and I want to thank you again, 266 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.269 Dr Brenna, and thank you to our listeners and, as always, 267 00:23:56.390 --> 00:24:03.349 be healthy, be well and fight the good fight. This has been the 268 00:24:03.549 --> 00:24:10.259 science and the story behind Omega. Three thanks to our sponsor, whiley companies. 269 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:15.859 You can find them and more information about our show at while Cocom podcast. 270 00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:21.940 If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your 271 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:32.170 podcasts. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time. Any statements on 272 00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:36.049 this podcast are the opinion of the scientific guest and or author and I've not 273 00:24:36.089 --> 00:24:38.519 yet been evaluated by the FDA. The information we may provide to you, 274 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.599 as designed for educational purposes only, is not intended to be a substitute for 275 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.920 informed medical advice or care. This information should not be used to diagnose, 276 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.359 treet or prevent any health issues or conditions without consulting a healthcare professional. If 277 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.950 you are experiencing a health issue are condition, we suggest you consult with your 278 00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:56.869 healthcare professional.