UDSKRIFT 🔗
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Before we get into the nitty-and-gritty.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Split Screen.
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My name is Kyle Clark.
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And I'm Angelica Clark.
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And this is a podcast where we do deep dive in the minds and lives of horror movie villains, suspense thrillers, and true crime stories.
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And I am a licensed clinical therapist, and I will be psychoanalyzing whatever movie, book, or TV show that we are discussing.
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Alright, so let's kind of real quick address the elephant in the room.
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We've just had a lot of life things going on lately, so it's been really hard for us to get here to record, and that's why we're going to be dropping a couple of episodes real quick back to back.
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And to kind of go into that segment, can I paint you a picture?
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Please do.
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It's late October.
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Jack Torrance, a struggling rider, recovering alcoholic, and former prep school teacher, takes a job as the winter caretaker for the secluded Overlook Hotel.
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Joining him are his wife Wendy and their young son Danny.
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Their assignment seems simple.
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Maintain the sprawling resort during the five months of total winter isolation, completely cut off from civilization by heavy snow drifts.
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To understand the tragic crime that unfolded inside the overlook, I think we kind of need to go a little deeper.
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What did you what did you think of the movie?
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Watching it in 2026.
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Cheesy as hell.
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So cheesy.
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Um but I mean I liked it.
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I mean, it was an easy one to go through, and it had a lot of interesting things that I'm going to be talking about, so I'm really excited.
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Well, and the kind of like I I remember The Shining when I was a kid being one of the scariest movies I've ever seen.
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And one of my favorite movies ever as a kid was Twister.
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Yeah.
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And there's a scene in the movie Twister where they're at a drive-in movie theater and they're watching The Shining.
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Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
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And I remember that being more scary to me than the F4 uh tornado, I think, that was heading their way to hit them.
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And I I think I agree.
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Watching it with you again, the the scary aspect was extremely lackluster, in my opinion.
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But that also could be because we are very desensitized to a lot of this kind of media.
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So that could play a role as well.
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Well, you also gotta think in 1980, this shit was like nightmare central.
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So, like if you're thinking about it from the lens of let's put ourselves in 1980, um, that is scary as hell.
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The movie was probably terrifying back then.
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Well, it it's it's directed by Stanley Kubrick, and the author of the original story was Stephen King.
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And when it comes to the shining, it's almost like you have to watch certain things to understand a little bit about what's going on inside the hotel.
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And what I mean by that is not necessarily the mental health aspect of it, but the supernatural twist that the author kind of bleeds into the fine print of the film.
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So when it comes to our conversation, let's this one for me was kind of almost a really with the supernatural, there is still a lot you can unpack when it comes to mental health and stability with just what these people are doing and what they're involving themselves with by caretaking over this property.
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Yeah.
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I've always said it'd be really hard to psychoanalyze a movie or TV show or whatever that has supernatural aspects to it, but I agree.
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I think this one, there's enough of the other side of things, like enough of the mental health and the trauma and things like that, that it's you know, the supernatural stuff we don't necessarily have to worry about.
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Yeah, and that's that would be kind of more for like a uh if this was like a re-watcher episode where we discuss the film in its entirety as if it was fact.
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But we we start off with with uh Jack Torrance, and he seems like a really good stand-up guy in the beginning.
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He's well dressed.
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I mean, it's Jack Nicholson in the 80s, still kind of terrifying at the same time.
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Jack Nicholson always had this kind of scary look to him, like he would look like my dad, you know, like he'd yell at me and I'd feel bad about it.
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But he he accepts this position and it's with the intent to have this time to go right.
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And I don't think that he took into consideration what this would do, but there's also something inside of Danny that he doesn't know that when Danny enters this hotel, it activates something within.
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And that's the supernatural aspect is the shining, what Danny can do.
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And if you continue to read into the stories when you go
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to Carrie, Doctor's sleep, um, Firestarter, they they start to make sense when you look at it from that aspect.
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But if you take that out and you just look at it from a mental health aspect, this seems really scary.
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Well, I want to add that you say something is in Danny that awakens basically whenever he goes into the hotel.
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But if you remember, um he kind of started acting funky, I guess, whenever Tony comes into the picture.
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But Tony comes into the picture after his after what happened with his dad.
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And so I think I need to do some more research on like you know, Dr.
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Sleep and Carrie and you know, all the other interconnected people, um to see if it's the same with them.
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But I think Danny's trauma is what woke up his shine, or like what you know caused it, if you will, because he didn't have anything before that, before the trauma.
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Yeah, no, I agree.
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And if I if I misspoke, I meant like when Danny entered the hotel, something awoke in it.
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No, the like the hotel woke up.
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Yeah, I didn't think you misspoke.
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I just was just like, you know, I think that's actually when his trauma started, like it wasn't always there.
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I think, or not trauma, but his shine started.
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I think it started from trauma.
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Yeah, and the and then because we learned throughout the film is dad was a pretty serious alcoholic and you know, maybe not the best spoken person at home, and you know, physical or emotional, that can be trauma no matter what.
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Yeah.
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So speaking of mental health, emotional trauma, all the things, should we get into it?
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Let's go.
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All right.
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Obviously, we talk about Jack.
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He is a very cut and dry, easy one to talk about.
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So I'm gonna be very brief with him.
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We know he's an alcoholic, he struggles with addiction, which is has also caused trauma for him when he does hurt Danny.
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So I think on top of, but it's weird because he talks about how he's he almost you almost briefly get a sense of guilt for him hurting Danny and blaming alcohol for that.
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But then he also talks about in the same breath that he misses alcohol and how it made him feel.
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So it's almost like you don't know what he feels worse about, not drinking anymore or hitting his son.
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Classic narcissist.
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So he is always the victim, blaming others, can't take accountability for his actions.
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He is just he's just mean, he thinks he's just hot shit.
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Um, but I I I do think I wish we knew more about his background, but I do think there's some trauma there for him too, even in childhood that maybe causes the alcoholism.
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But I I also do 100% think that it was regardless of him not drinking anymore, I think him hurting Danny did cause him some trauma and kind of put him deeper into himself, whether he wanted to admit to it or wanted to admit or not.
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So I do believe he had violent tendencies from the very beginning, but I think being in isolation at the hotel, not being able to leave, having no other people around, that caused a psychotic break for him, which is what caused him to kind of turn into this violent person.
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And the whole movie itself is just all about generational trauma.
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When he goes to the hotel, I mean, you get all these different people that have been there, what's happened to them, and it's just one thing after another with him, and then with Danny, and then moving forward, you just know, okay, everybody in this hotel is just messed up in the head.
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I do, I do think I want to talk more, and this is gonna sound really weird, but I kind of want to analyze, and by analyze I mean like psychoanalyze the actual hotel as if it's a character, if you will allow me to do that.
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Yeah, I definitely will allow you to do that.
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Okay.
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Bear with me.
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Okay.
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I understand the hotel is just a hotel, it's an inanimate object.
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Um, it's not a person, it you know, doesn't have feelings, but I I disagree.
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For one, I'm going to see the entire idea, concept, what have you, of the overlook hotel is the entire Freudian concept of the unconscious mind.
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So for those who are not familiar with the unconscious mind, Sigmund Freud created this idea of the consciousness.
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So there's three levels to consciousness.
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And if you picture an iceberg in your head, you see like the top of the iceberg is what you see, right?
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Just like in Titanic.
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But then you there's so much underneath that you can't see.
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So if you think of the three types of consciousness broken down that way, the conscious mind is the top or the awareness a person has.
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Then there's the pre-conscious, which is like that small slab of ice that you can kind of see right below
the water.
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And that is where your information, where memories are, where like knowledge is from like, let's say you learned something in fifth grade, and then you don't have to bring it back to the forefront until you're in your 30s.
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That's because it's in your pre-conscious mind, but but your mind has put it to the side because, oh, it's not important.
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And then you have the unconscious mind, which this unconscious is where our instincts and drives um live, our deeply buried fears, unfulfilled wishes and dreams, and this is also where traumatic memories are.
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So when you've heard me talk about PTSD, you've heard me talk about one of the biggest symptoms is repressed memories, right?
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Like you, or you don't remember certain aspects of the event.
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It's because of the trauma that your brain, according to Freud.
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And I'm gonna be the first to say I think Freud is an idiot, and I can't stand the man.
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I think he's just gross.
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But this is one concept that I always found to be interesting, and I think a lot of the hotel itself is supposed to signify the unconscious mind of Jack.
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Interesting.
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So I know.
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So it's basically like viewing, like you're you're seeing Jack and how he's reacting, interacting with people, and then you see the hotel, and you're almost seeing like Jack on the outside and Jack on the inside, almost like the hotel is a representation of his fractured psyche.
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So I want to dive even further into that.
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You bearing with me so far.
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I'm still here.
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Okay.
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So when you hear me talk about the unconscious mind, I had mentioned, you know, that it's where instincts and drives live, according to Freud.
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So instincts and drive would be things like as simple as, hey, I'm hungry, I need to eat, right?
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You don't think about it.
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I'm thirsty, I need to drink something, I need to go to the bathroom, I need to sleep because I'm tired.
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But it also, so that's that in instinct stuff, but then it also buries that, those drives, including like sexual drives, things like that.
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So I think 437, the woman in 437 represents or supposed to represent his lust drive.
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Like it doesn't seem like him and his wife are doing very well.
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He also is a narcissist.
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So I think this the woman in 437 represents him, represents that, not him.
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And then if you think about, I talk about unfulfilled wishes and unfulfilled dreams as part of the unconscious.
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I think the two I think the sisters, part of that because they were young when they died, which technically, if you really think about it in this perspective, could represent their unfulfilled wishes and dreams because they died at a young age and they they are stuck, right?
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But you also have a bar with no alcohol and a person who is a recovering alcoholic living in the hotel with a bar with no alcohol.
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So his unfulfilled wishes and dreams, he goes to that bar because you know he wants to drink, but he can't, which makes him unravel even more.
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Yeah.
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Then you go into buried fears.
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So this one was a little bit harder for me to like pinpoint what exactly in the movie or in the hotel would represent like those buried fears.
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But I think it's just that very generic, like death, blood, you know, being isolated, things like that.
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And then it also represents not only repressed memories, but the return of those same repressed memories.
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So all these obviously just trauma left and right.
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All of that's going to be repressed and coming back to the forefront.
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Like we just talked about Tony a little bit ago, and how Tony is almost kind of that being, if you will, that reminds Danny of like, hey, your dad's an asshole, you know?
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Yeah.
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So it also talks about Jack's violent tendencies.
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And I think the if you're talking about the unconscious mind and how it brings back repressed urges or repressed memories, returns things like that.
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This also includes Jack's violent tendencies because it doesn't talk about things before, like the only violent incident we really hear about is Danny.
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But I have a hunch, just based on who he is as a person, there are probably others.
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Well, and for those of you who have not seen the film, which I'm sure I would assume you have by now, but if you have not, the violent incident is where Jack in anger pulls on Danny's arm, and did he break it or did he dislocate it?
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They said he dislocated his shoulder because he pulled him hard enough to dislocate his shoulder.
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And that's that's kind of where the distrust and the I need to quit drinking kind of came into play.
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But I also think that he would not have stopped if he wasn't forced to.
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Like I think he was perfectly fine with continuing
to drink.
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Because if he absolutely, you know, what we say in my field is if they want to, they will.
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Like I can, you know, I supervise case managers who deal with patients on a day-to-day basis who have things like schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder and are alcoholics.
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And I tell my case managers all the time, like, you can give them resource after resource after resource, you can help connect them to different things, but they still have to make the choice to utilize what we give them.
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And so kind of goes back to Jack, where his wife is like, Hey, you know, you gotta do this, and he's like reluctantly does it, but does he really want it?
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Is it gonna be sustainable?
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Probably not.
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We see that.
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Yeah, I think it's super cool to look at because the shining, if you look at it yourself, it's so silly.
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The entire thing is just like, oh my gosh, you can absolutely tell this was in 1980, because it's just so cheesy.
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But if you look at it from that lens of like, okay, let's think about this as if it's the inside of Jack's mind.
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And it's it makes so much more sense.
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And that's also why I think that Danny activates it.
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Because I think regardless of how Jack feels or what he sees himself as, what he sees Danny as, I think Danny awakes something in Jack, whether that's his anger, whether that's his violence, whether that's the small percentage of actual humanity and empathy he might have because he has a son.
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I think Danny does do that to Jack, which I think is also why he does it to the hotel.
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Interesting.
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I did not I I'm sorry if I've been quiet.
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I've never necessarily really kind of looked at it from that lens.
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And the way that you kind of laid that out for us was uh extremely well done.
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And it's huh.
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Yeah, it's very crazy to really look at it from that aspect because if you want to take even the supernatural out of it, it could still be there because of the imagination of one's brain, yeah, and being involved with Jack.
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That's that's an interesting way.
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Because I think I even when we were watching it, and Jack is at the bar and he's talking to Lloyd, and I I said out loud, I was like, it is Jack shining right now, or is this all legitimately in his head?
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Because I maybe it's one and the same.
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So you talk about Lloyd, and that also brings me to
something else.
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Um, you say that, you know, is he a figment of his imagination?
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Is he part of the hotel?
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I think what he's supposed to represent, I think Lloyd goes back to that like unconscious part of the mind that brings you that gives you your or that hides your deepest desires.
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And Lloyd is a bartender at a bar that does not serve alcohol.
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So he would represent, if you think about it again, if we're just thinking about the the hotel itself as the unconscious mind, according to Freud, or Jack's unconscious mind, or his psyche, if you will.
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I think Lloyd is that like crave it's like a physical manifestation of Jack's craving for alcohol.
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Hence why he would be a bartender.
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Yes.
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Not only a bartender, but a bartender at a bar that we know has no alcohol.
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And has the exact whiskey he likes.
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Yeah, and made the exact way he likes it.
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Like he's met this person before.
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Why would that be?
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But then he's also kind of that devil on his shoulder as well, because he's trying to get him to consume this alcohol, but he's also feeding him little lies about Wendy, little lies about Danny, and it's uh it's interesting.
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I I kind of just had almost an epiphany a few moments ago.
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I will not discuss in this episode.
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We will discuss it in the next one.
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Um it will pertain more to the next episode than it will here.
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And I kind of want to talk to you about it first without being recorded.
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Sorry guys, you're not gonna get to hear that one.
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It's just because I'm special.
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But so I have some things I would like to talk about the film.
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Um, as you guys know, kind of like my thing is the filmography of it, and I thought that this would be a really fun one to kind of look up some behind the scenes, kind of what was going on.
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And so just so that you're aware, so the iconic blood scene, it took nine days to rig up and used roughly 200 to 300 gallons of artificial blood pumping out of the elevator shafts.
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Oh wow.
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Nine days to set that single scene up, and that was the most blood ever on screen at the time, and I do believe it chapter two took took the reins on that one.
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I think they use 900 gallons, I think.
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Don't quote me on that.
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I'm that just ADHD memory.
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So a little quip about something.
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So there is a little bit of the moon landing conspiracy involved with this film due to the fact that Stanley Kubrick was um lightly accused of filming the Apollo 11 Moon Landing, and it's uh it was debunked, but a fan theory claims that Kubrick used the film as a hidden confession to helping NASA fake the 1969 moon landing to things like Danny's Apollo 19 sweater.
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It didn't say Apollo 19, it was Apollo 11, but and then also the room.
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So it was debunked, but it was kind of silly that at the time Stanley Kubrick was kind of getting some fire over that.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:16.240
The iconic, very iconic, here's Johnny.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:25.839
So Jack Nicholson actually improvised that line based on Ed McFarron's nightly intro into the tonight show.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:26.480
What?
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:41.599
And that scene required about sixty doors over three days because Nicholson, a former volunteer fire marshal, tore through the prop doors too easily.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:49.200
So but my my question my question, who the hell's Johnny?
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:54.000
I that's I I think it might be Is that what he says?
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:55.519
Johnny Carson.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:57.680
That's hilarious.
00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:13.039
Now, here's here's something that's kind of I don't know how necessarily I feel about this, but so the five-year-old child star who played Danny did not know he was making a horror film.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:20.720
Stanley Kubrick and his parents told him they were filming a drama about a family living in a hotel.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:22.079
My God.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:28.160
So the terror that that boy has, it's all real for him.
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:29.119
It's terrible.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:36.559
When he's riding his bicycle and sees those two girls down the hallway, he did not know those girls were going to be there.
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.680
So they gave the poor boy trauma to represent trauma.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:40.799
100%.
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:43.279
That's crazy.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:50.640
But that's just a few things that that I thought were interesting that I wanted to add to this episode just because of how.
00:26:52.720 --> 00:27:06.400
So it's just kind of like with our very first episode where we talk about um Psycho by Robert Block kind of paving the way for horror films that we have now.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:18.400
And The Shining kind of was that evolutionary gift that we got from that aspect, and then everything kind of fell through after The Shining.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:49.839
It was kind of like it took the reins of being a standalone kind of foundation for what we have as horror films today, and it's it was interesting to to see it from this lens, and it it will always kind of just be there as like I enjoyed it, and I'm also okay not watching it again.
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:50.799
Yeah.
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:55.440
But what are your end thoughts on that?
00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:08.319
I don't think you understand how hard it is not to say anymore because of I'm I tried to figure out what would what would uh bleed into the next one.
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:14.400
But I so I think I've said what I can say about this particular movie.
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:27.759
Yeah, it's very, very difficult not to just go into it because our next episode is going to be a little bit more meaty than what this one was.
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:32.079
There really wasn't a whole lot to kind of unpack with The Shining.
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:37.200
Um, but what we're gonna do next, there is.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:43.200
And so hopefully you guys enjoy the next episode, which will be Doctor Sleep.
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:48.640
And I am excited to sit down and really unpack that one.
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.319
And that one could potentially be our longest episode yet.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.839
So there's just so much.
00:28:54.079 --> 00:29:11.119
Um I'm I'm willing to go as long as it takes to get out what we need to give this film the writing by Stephen King, the acting, and the writers who developed the films the credit it actually deserves.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.960
So hopefully you guys enjoyed this episode on The Shining.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:32.079
I had a lot of fun uh getting back into this, and I had a lot more fun with Doctor's Sleep, and who knows, maybe Carrie or Firestarter or something along those lines might make it into that group because they're kind of coming back.
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.559
And they're all connected.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.599
So, but I hope you guys enjoyed.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.240
I hope everybody's doing okay, and we will talk to you guys in the next one.
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:43.359
Thank you.