Fuld transskription af Why Most Painting Businesses Fail and How the Best Stay Profitable with Nick from the PCA

as those people age out. And now we have groups created by social media all over the place. We have 27 or 30 different groups based in states that get together. Jenni: Mm-hmm. Nick Slavik: The one in Minnesota where I'm located was the first one. It was the pilot program that we started. I think there's 575 painting companies just local to Minnesota, just in that, just in the Minnesota one. And we get together hundreds and hundreds of painting companies come together a couple times a year for kind of like fellowship camaraderie. And we actually teach each other. It's a pretty cool thing. Jenni: Wow. Yeah, yeah, that's very neat because they're all So they're all definitely competing with one another, but still ⁓ in sharing having that mindset. And I bet that helps because they know that they're working in the same environment, that they can share things that are relevant one another. So cool how that works that. So Nick Slavik: Yeah. Jenni: what does your role on a day-to-day look like being in association? Nick Slavik: Yeah, so I've been a member for at least 10 years now. I got asked to serve and then elected to the board of directors about seven years ago. ⁓ ⁓ enough, last Monday, I turned out I was the I went up through the board of directors ⁓ vice chair and then chair and I was chairman of the board for three years. And Monday, I literally just ran out of service. There are no more years I can serve. So I formally led the board meeting that we elected the new chairperson. ⁓ of my great friends, Maggie Kuiper, a painting contractor, a business owner from Nashville. And so, yeah, just this is very fresh. I've not done a podcast yet where I'm not the chairman of the board of the PCA. So I still retain a board seat. I moved to immediate past chair for continuity. And now I serve at the pleasure of the board chair. Maggie, and then I'm kind of waiting for a task to do as she takes the reins and gets her vision and strategy in. There's an entire board of directors made up of some champion sponsors of that, a whole bunch of painting contractors. We have a whole committee system to help out with that. And then we have our whole ops team, our operations team, which is based in Nashville with our executive director and all sorts of people who make, have really big, really amazing functions all over the United States. And they're basically event planners, coordinators. and then membership outreach people. it's a fairly large, I mean, it is a nonprofit, but it is a fairly large organization as organizations go. Jenni: Yeah, that's interesting. So it sounds like there's opportunity painting companies to... become members or take on ⁓ to create events as well ⁓ they're looking for other ways to kind of develop skills alongside their painting company? Is that kind of Or are the ⁓ board members event people, do they also have painting companies typically? What does that look like? Nick Slavik: Yeah, by the bylaws, we are a nonprofit led by ourselves. We are the painting contractors association. So I think 85 to 90 % of the entire board of directors is made up of people who run painting companies across the US. You know, have to be in good standing and ⁓ to a code of ethics and things like that. ⁓ then be elected ⁓ based on a nominating committee and your peers and ⁓ Jenni: ⁓ huh. Nick Slavik: didn't really understand this when I got involved because this is like a ⁓ a volunteer thing. Yeah, it's a servant leadership sort of thing and we have families. We were just talking. We have a bunch of young kids and we have businesses and ⁓ have youth sports and we have community associations we're part of and so this is sort of like this is not a way to get rich. This is a way for people like us who are servant leaders that are fine that we're constantly trying to find ways to give back. And the Painting Contractors Association is the largest and longest standing trade association for our industry. So for people like me who really want to improve this industry, help other people, you can go to a national level and weaponize that. So you can think about meeting with your local contractors in your area, and that's fine too. The Gathering of Minnesota Painters, you can meet with 500. But when 500 is not enough and you want to actually talk with a voice of authority to the industry to try to impose some change, you have 142 year old nonprofit Jenni: Mm-hmm. Nick Slavik: that if you are the right type of human and the right type of servant leader, your voice can be heard nationally. yeah, changing this industry is a thing that we all hold near and dear to our hearts. We always want to improve it. We want to uphold the standards. And this is the finest and best and biggest way to do that. Jenni: Yeah, wow, that's very cool. Another way of getting involved I wasn't really aware of, that's very cool. So to become a member, what does it look like if you wanted to join just in your local place? there a process you have to go through to get in? Nick Slavik: Yeah, so all of our gathering groups are basically just free groups organized on the internet, kind of like as the grassroots movement. There's a basic dues. It's a couple hundred bucks a year to be a national member. And our dues are highly subsidized by our champion partners. We have some of the biggest vendors in the industry that sit alongside us and give hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of that sort of thing. So honestly, if you are a painting contractor, you adhere to the code of ethics and you are in good standing with state, local and federal government and with the with our contract. Association and you pay your dues, you are a member. And then it's sort of one of those things where we're all made up of business owners. So it's kind of a choose your own adventure sort of thing where if like many associations, if you just pay your dues and sit in your house and wait for great things to happen to you, you that is not going to

happen. need to be active. So ⁓ people say like, you know, it's very easy to become a member. But then when they become a member, they say, well, what's the ROI on something like this? ⁓ I'll say, well, how much time and effort and money are you willing to put forward? Jenni: Mm-hmm. Nick Slavik: to the PCA and I will tell you what your ROI is because the people who leverage a lot of their time and get involved and get active have an amazing ROI. The people who sit at their house and don't use their membership, I mean your dues go to supporting a 142 year old nonprofit but if you expect your life to change by not interacting with it, it's not going to happen. Jenni: Yeah, OK, fair enough. That's a good way to put it. Choose your own adventure. So yeah, I'm sure in seasons, maybe you can invest a lot more time and really grow from that. And ⁓ sometimes it might wane. But just around the community, ⁓ I that is impactful either way. So cool. Nick Slavik: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jenni: So you mentioned that you're looking to everybody wants to improve the industry and keep the high standards. Do you have some examples of kind of like what that might look like? Nick Slavik: Yeah, so you know, a lot of times painting contractors will complain about, you know, clients are too picky or the standards vary from job to job, especially with our residential repainters, you know, I bulk of my work in the bulk of most painting contractors work out there goes directly to homeowners, private clients. When you deal with a private client, the standards can range from I expect Sistine Chapel to I don't even care. And you never know who you're dealing with. And you only find out when it comes time to pay the bill. When you deal with business to business, so if I was a commercial industrial contractor, which we do a little bit of that stuff, the standards are much different in a business. You're dealing with another business and we can actually have a contractual agreement on what that looks like and it's a little less squishy. one of the things that we are very proud of is we actually are ⁓ bearer of the standards in our industry and we have a series of standards. I think there's 22 of them. ⁓ first one literally constitutes ⁓ is a finished surface. And so there's a series of 39 inches away from the wall, standing position, normal viewing. There is a way to actually figure out if this is a finished OK wall. And the whole industry complains about it. Well, only person or entity that could determine that and then universally be used is a nonprofit. Like if you go to a paint manufacturer or a brush manufacturer. they're gonna have a standard and it may be good for them but not for the painter. It may be good for the homeowner but not for the painter. It may be good for the painter not the homeowner. And so really when you think about a accepted standard especially something as important as is this door finished? ⁓ can only get that done by a long standing nonprofit. that, mean, we don't take that for granted. That is, we are the standard bearers of that. If any homeowner or any painting contract in the United States has that question, we actually have an answer for that. Jenni: Thank you. Yeah, that's actually very interesting. Like we were talking about before, I used to have a painting company long ago and I know what it's like having a homeowner look at a wall and maybe they've never looked at this wall in this way before. suddenly ⁓ it's painted, they notice everything to just be able to say, like this is actually... Nick Slavik: Very Jenni: the standard and to maybe preset those expectations with the homeowner of what they're going to be getting and what is even just educating them on what it is paint can do and can't do. ⁓ It make it like velvety, or whatever it is, those, whatever their expectations are, it's ⁓ what it what it's possible to do. I can see that could be very helpful for a company to in their back pocket to ⁓ just, yeah. create happier customers. that's cool. So for resources then, because I was just talking about setting expectations, what kind of resources do you have for painters that become a part of the association? Even let's say in Minnesota when that could be available that they could tap into. Nick Slavik: Yeah, so then there's along the choose your own adventure line. Our standards are literally free on the internet right now. Anybody can go access them at any time. And then we pride ourselves in three main things. We have the standards, we have education for the industry, and then we have events for the industry. education is the thing ⁓ we're very proud of and we constantly work on. We do multi-year, ⁓ million dollar initiatives ⁓ get out the best education for the industry. And it kind of goes down two paths of painter education, like the technical skills of the craft. But what we've been really leaning into for the last decade is the business education of it. Because when we survey the industry, we see that there's actually a whole bunch of amazing craftspeople and painters out there. We do great work. The problem is they go out of business every 18 months statistically, because they can't run a business. So all these great artisans and craftspeople and production painters can't just stay alive long enough to even do their craft. So When we look at the industry, we know that basic business education, mean, talking about standard operating procedures, estimating production, ⁓ marketing, basic financials, just things like. things that basic business owners need to know. And that has made a huge difference in the industry. It's made a huge difference in a lot of our lives there too. So we even have ⁓ next year, we're announcing this huge college curriculum style thing where it's certificate programs that go along a line, just like a college education where you start off with some basics, you go more advanced. And again, choose your own adventure along that line. Do you want an

estimating certificate? You could send all your employees, but that's again, vendors in our industry. do some of this stuff, they do great things with education. But there's something about an 142 year old nonprofit when they put out education that is objective and trusted and it stands outside of a financial motive. It's literally there to serve the industry, not to serve a specific human or a vendor. Jenni: Right. Yeah, cool. definitely there are a lot of people that are naturally maybe talented with painting. It's kind of in terms of construction, one of the lower barrier to entry. And so I can imagine just people. being good painters, but then you finish one house and you're like, okay, now what do I do? And you're standing around like, somebody hire me. Yeah. yeah, that's great to ⁓ those good painters to be able to continue doing work and ⁓ a business. Cool. you talked that ongoing education that I wanted to dive into. Do you know how long companies usually... Nick Slavik: if the next job doesn't land anywhere. Jenni: You have said it's a choose your own adventure, but do you guys keep records of membership? How long companies typically stay once you become a member? there, like if you're an active member, are companies, do you get a lot of people like coming in and they just exit the industry of painting or? Seems like you've got some better. You've been in this for a long time. And the board of directors, I'm sure. So what does it look like? Have you seen those? Are there a lot of companies that have been in that they come in and then they stay a member for a long time? Or are you getting new blood and new ideas, that kind of thing? Nick Slavik: Yeah, we live in two strange worlds, which is the, have some pretty ⁓ kind staggering statistics about the general painting industry, which is there's as far as we can tell, over and under is about 300,000 painting companies in the United States. The average paint business is one to 1.5 people, ⁓ arguably % of the industry. So literally just single painters out there and we lovingly call them chucking the trucks. out there. was once a truck and a truck. A and a truck is not a bad thing. Chuck and a truck can be a great thing. But really, what you call a painting contractor for your own home, the likelihood that you get a single owner operator, not some big, huge corporation, is about 99 % or 99 to 1. The other stats that are pretty staggering are they typically go out of business every 18 months. they typically go out of business every 18 months. And the typical paint business owner in the United States takes home $43,000 a year, which is $21.50 an hour. which is I don't employ anybody in my company that makes that little. And so that tells you that, well, why do they go out of business? Because they're making $21 an hour. I wouldn't do this either. You're doing estimates for free all night. You're risking this. You're buying all the materials. So now that's the staggering industry-wide statistics. Like you said, there's a little barrier to entry. There's not a lot of great places to work. So people start their own business. They're not prepared for it. We have a completely different set of statistics inside the PCA, which is. Jenni: Mm-hmm. Nick Slavik: The average painting company been with the PCA for more than 20 years. They are 15 times larger and more profitable than the average painting company. So ⁓ if when people say like, well, why should I be a member? It's like, well, ⁓ me start with the stats of our members. And statistically, if you just become a member, you are the likelihood that you'll be 15 times longer lived and more profitable than the average painting company is so high. It's about a 90 percent better chance of that sort of thing because standards and we have education. if you just become member, the likelihood that you'll be 15 times longer lived and more profitable than the average painting company is about a 90 percent better Jenni: Mm-hmm. Nick Slavik: what's really interesting is ⁓ had our big expo. ⁓ last week, it's the Super Bowl of the painting industry. It's the largest painting event like it of its kind. we were down in Orlando and we did a live polling experiment where we had a pollster stand up there with a QR code ⁓ the entire 1,000, 1500 person main assembly was reacting to it with their phones in real time and we were seeing statistics. the average, in room, ⁓ 60 of the people ⁓ were 35 years old. They had never been to an industry event before, but the average of membership in the room was about 15 to 20 years. So that tells you if you get into the PCA you never leave it. Jenni: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, definitely motivation ⁓ check it out in your own area. Cool, do you have a, can you tell us more about that industry event? You said it was, it's once a year that big one that's across the US. What's that look like? Is it everybody can go to it? Is there like costs? Is anything covered? Is it in the same place every year? Just curious that. It sounds like a nice kind of vacation ⁓ learning experience that can look forward to if you join. ⁓ Nick Slavik: Yeah, it's interesting. It's a vacation if you're a complete nerd like me where you like brutally long days with great education that just completely exhaust you and things like that. It is if that's what if that's what you consider a vacation. But no, it's really a good it's a good gathering of people. And again, only nonprofits can kind of do this. Like, you know, you can get vendors, you can get companies together. But everybody's a little skeptical of motivations behind those things. So we are the one ground. We're like the Switzerland. where all the vendors can come together, vendors that are fierce competitors can stand in the same floor on the same trade show and do this. So take a step back from just the expo, ⁓ have ⁓ board of directors is in charge of the vision and the strategy for 142 year old nonprofits. So we think about a

multi-decade process down the road. Where does this association need to be? Because it's not going to go down on our watch, right? It's been here for 142 years. This will go on. ⁓ took a step back and said, With the dawn of the social media era, contractors are connected like they never were before. The old system of chapters and councils is gone. That was post-World War II. And now people want to get together. They're becoming friends on the internet. And if we don't start getting these people together, somebody will. And we want to be the ones to do that. So we said, taking a step back from it all, we said, we need a series of events across the country to gather up these people so we can exchange knowledge and get the best and the brightest minds. the expo... is the crowning achievement, our Super Bowl. We rotate it around every year. Last year it was in Colorado, this year it was in Orlando, next year, New Orleans. We like to geographically disperse it so people can get to it. ⁓ It an expense, right? I think it costs a thousand bucks to go. The hotels aren't cheap, the airfare's not cheap, you're taking time away from family and business. We know that. But literally, it's highly subsidized by all of our vendors. keeps the cost down. But we do want to move it closer. For people in San Diego to go to Orlando, it's going to be a lot better when we rotate it. We also have a series of ancillary events, too, when people can't make the big Super Bowl or can't make that time commitment. Jenni: Yeah. Nick Slavik: We have other events. have a ⁓ residential ⁓ every year. We have a commercial conference for the big industrial and commercial painting contractors. One really cool thing we started a couple years ago were two things, ⁓ PCA Espanol, which is a Spanish speaking conference, ⁓ because far as we can tell, 63 % of our industry are Spanish speakers. So we thought we should probably, we should probably do something for them if that's your core demo, right? And I felt like that was a big ⁓ blind spot for us for a lot of years. ⁓ And really cool, the most bright, ⁓ Jenni: Yeah. Nick Slavik: vibrant and growing sort of section of the PCA is our women in paint. And so years ago, there's a whole bunch of great women servant leaders and they said, you know what, it's not good enough to just get this association together and put women in leadership and hope that everybody follows. We need like a women in paint committee and we need to form an event for that. And that is the most vibrant, fastest growing portion of our industry. God, I think maybe 10 % of the entire expo. was women painting business owners. just how that group has taken off and could be prouder of all of it. Jenni: Yeah, wow, that's really cool. Yeah, just, ⁓ mean, like you said, it's cool to have the diversity and the big large group, but breaking it down into even maybe ⁓ smaller where you can relate and connect because maybe you're also Spanish speaking or maybe you're also a woman. ⁓ I'm

there's just different nuances of each group. So, ⁓ Nick Slavik: huge nuances as you can imagine. So I went to the first ever Women in Paint conference. It was one of the more amazing things I've ever seen. They started a Facebook group and all these things start in a Facebook group to kind of connect people and stuff to get the excitement going. And because I was the board chair, they let me in the Women in Paint Facebook group. I think I'm the only dude in there. Jenni: Yeah. Nick Slavik: you I were part you, you, you knew the painting industry too. And so there's some very large painting forums on the internet. And sometimes they can get real spicy with each other. It kinds to be an unsupportive place at times. get inside the women and paint group and everybody's just literally like, here's some solutions. How can I help? I'm ready to hear for here's my phone number. Here's this. ⁓ it was just like blowing my mind like, ⁓ my God, this is the most helpful place on the painter internet is this women and paint group. And then for our first event, Jenni: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Nick Slavik: had things like ⁓ there was sound baths and meditation and mindfulness and they were talking about a holistic approach to being a better human so you can be a better contractor and a craft and I was just like, my God, this is great. ⁓ Yeah. Jenni: Yeah, wow, amazing. Yeah, that's a lot even when I talk to contractors about, like you said, balancing life and running business and ⁓ running families and maybe there's more ⁓ like that are running it. I don't know, but yeah, that's interesting that they're thinking about. being able to create peace within so they can have a better business. That's very cool. Definitely and very encouraging because I know just in general in the construction industry, I know that there are women involved and I've definitely talked to lot of women business owners but... Nick Slavik: bearing. Jenni: I there's, I would say it's still fairly common. see the women in the business are maybe doing more of the office stuff or kind of just you sort of see maybe there's just you're slotted in certain roles. But yeah, I think that's really awesome to be able to think about. Yeah, defining and shaping how women are seen in that. So cool. Nick Slavik: Yeah, it's been it's been really interesting in the industry too, because I grew up this is my 34th year in the industry and growing up in a family business. It was the same thing. It's like dad, man, this is how like every family trades business in Minnesota, at least the ones I knew started, which is dad started it. And then when your son's got old enough, you made the son's work in there. If you didn't have sons and you had daughters, you sent them off to college, you get real jobs, you know, or you made the son's work. And then eventually, you got sick of doing paperwork. So you pull mom in. Jenni: Yeah. Nick Slavik: and you make mom answer the phone and do paperwork. And it's like, that's literally in

the 1970s, 80s and early 90s, every family trades based business was like that. It is not like that anymore. That is just like, we have people leaving the finance industry to come to the painting industry because of the opportunities. So we have done a great job of turning this thing into, well, since I couldn't do this, I ended up in painting. That doesn't exist anymore. Jenni: Yeah. Yeah. that's awesome. Yeah, people are choosing it. It's not just because it was lower ⁓ barrier entry, but because they just actually wanted type of business. So, ⁓ very cool. there any interesting stats you can think of from that expo that where people were answering or anything that surprised you maybe? Nick Slavik: Yeah, it's really interesting that I was reminiscing as my last event as board chair and my last formal board meeting as board chair that in the 10 years that I've been involved in the industry, average age of a member and an attendee has almost halved. And it's incredible. And 50 to 60 % of all attendees at every event are new. And like if 10 years ago, Jenni: ⁓ yeah. Nick Slavik: You know, when I was sniffing around the industry, you know, my dad's probably 70, give or take. Every single person that I knew of the industry was my dad. It was a 71 year old dude who painted forever, you know? And it's like, great. They're also helpful. They're happy. They're friendly and all this other stuff. But you would go to one of these conferences and the average age was high 60s, low 70s. Now you're looking at mid 30s at least and way more diverse, way more entrepreneurial. Jenni: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ wow. Nick Slavik: as well too. I was just like saying to my fellow board of directors, like, if you would have told me 10 years ago that we had our mission was to have the age of the attendees and get 60 % fresh blood every time, I would say there is no way in heck that's how could you possibly do that in an industry as old as time and a 142 year old nonprofit. Jenni: Okay. Nick Slavik: And it happened. so don't think people are recognizing this yet. And I don't think painting is the only trade out there that this is happening. It's just the one that I know of. ⁓ there is a major change that got spurred on 10 years ago by the advent of social media and the connectedness. ⁓ barrier to information went way down. And I grew up in an industry where we all thought we had secrets and everybody was the competition. ⁓ that is the worst strategy you can take nowadays, where it becomes absurd that Jenni: Yeah. Nick Slavik: If a painting contractor ever believes that they have a secret, is so absurd because we all buy the same paint, we all buy the same brushes, we all buy the same rollers. We all wear the same white pants. So you tell me what secrets you have, right? The only secret is your ability to execute your business plan because nobody makes their own paint, nobody makes their own brushes. ⁓ think that barrier got chopped down and the industry completely turned over. Jenni:

Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nick Slavik: And I'm not sure that people are stopping to realize that yet. In 10 years, it'll be pretty evident. But I don't think people realize the change that's happening in the trades right now. Jenni: Mm-hmm. Yeah, wow, that's very interesting. Yeah, I know I've worked like even with in the trades industry. I've also been ⁓ over 10 years now. I it is one of the, we've all said it's construction in general is one of the slowest, one of slow ones to change, but just like, I mean, farming. evolved, they adapted new tools and technology and that used to be like hundreds of years in the old way of doing things and now they've got new tools and interesting it seems construction is really kind of getting to that point where now if you're not doing that you're not taking on new technology and adapting and creating a new business model. It doesn't matter if you can just do a good job painting a wall like you've got to do everything else too so yeah that's very cool. Awesome, well you've given a lot of great advice and lot of information about the association, a lot of reasons to join and a lot of excitement about just checking it out. ⁓ If had to sum up the value in ⁓ like sentence for a painting business about joining Painting Contractors Association, what would you Nick Slavik: Hmm the one sentence part is a challenge. Let me see what I can do here so Jenni: You Nick Slavik: My entire life changed since I've become a PCA member because of the humans within the PCA. And I want another, I want a second sentence. I am a better father, I'm a better human, I'm a better husband, I'm a better business owner, I'm a better craftsman because of the people that I met there. And that is the value prop of the PCA. Yes, there's standards, yes, there's education, but you being a PCA member as a dog whistle to other humans. Jenni: Yep. Nick Slavik: that you are the top half of 1 % of the entire industry. And these people will give the shirt off your back to help you. And they have for me. in my life would be happening right now without the humans from the PCA. Jenni: Yeah, well, that's a great one. That's it. That was a paragraph, but I'll take it. Yeah, like the context. Nick Slavik: I was trying to fit that one sentence and there's no way to do it. I'm better because of the PCA. Jenni: That is huge, Creating those relationships and being able to shape you into a new person is important because it's not just a job, you're not just clocking in nine to five, but if it's shaping every aspect of your life, that helps a lot, so that's amazing. Well, thank you, Nick, for being on the show. It was great to chat with you, get to know you, and learn about your involvement in the association and how other people can get involved. thank you again for being on and thanks everyone for listening. This episode sponsored by Renoworks Pro. ⁓ It's a visualization software that helps painters ⁓ homeowners what new colors will look like the interior or exterior to help them see how it's all going to look. So thanks again for listening we'll see you next time. Nick Slavik: Thanks again, appreciate it. Jenni: Nick.