UDSKRIFT 🔗
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In many decades of seeking and searching and trying, and different therapies and different ceremonies and sound healing, like all the things, and I was still fundamentally the same person and maybe I had some insight or I made up stories about why things had happened to me, but nothing changed until I did the resurfacing course
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What if what you thought was true is a lie?
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What if the thing that is wrong with you is actually right?
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Hi there, and welcome to rewriting the Illness Story, a space where we see ourselves and our journeys through a new lens and decide our own truth.
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Hi, Welcome to Rewriting the Illness Story podcast.
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I'm your host, Paula Hescock.
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Today I have three guests with me that have all done the Avatar course, and I invited them on to speak about what they got from the course.
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In my last podcast, I talked with my guest Manu about, the crisis that he had, and I found it very interesting that he was saying he was going through this period in time and somebody just sat down next to him and said, "Oh, I'm going to this course this weekend if you'd like to join me." And I think that's a lot of the times how people get introduced to Avatar, and then they start doing, these courses and exploring consciousness.
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For me, I know that it took me down a road of just learning so many different insights.
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This course was kind of the first in my learning experience of, Understanding that I am a co-creator, and it was kind of like the building blocks for a lot of other experiences and, resources that I now have for living the life that I want.
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We have Casey Kavanaugh, Diana Vagianos- and Ginger Rogers here today.
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Welcome, ladies.
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Hello.
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Nice to be here.
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Thank you.
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I wanted to ask each of you, how did you get introduced to Avatar?
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Ginger, do you wanna start?
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Sure.
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I have a background...
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I started looking at transformational work way back in the '80s, actually.
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So I've always been interested in out of the box thinking, linear thinking.
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You know, instead of asking why, I've always asked why not.
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Um, and so always been a little bit of a, you know, the rebel of the group, so to speak.
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And the thing I think that got my attention about Avatar is the simplicity of the exercises.
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I didn't realize it until I had a situation, and then the woman who took me through Avatar, we did one of the pillars exercises on forgiveness, and I found something that I had no idea had been there for so many years that had been running my show.
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And I had a good show.
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I mean, it wasn't like I was, you know, impoverished or, you know, lame or anything or sick.
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I just, you know, I had no idea it was running my show.
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And that woke me up to there's value in this approach to transformation.
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And that was February 2025, and I haven't looked back.
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I keep looking forward into what's next.
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It's the best thing I've ever done for myself as far as transformational work.
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Diana?
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Yeah.
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Well, Ginger, I agree.
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Best thing I've done for myself.
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And in many decades of seeking and searching and trying, and different therapies and different ceremonies and sound healing, like all the things, and I was still fundamentally the same person.
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And maybe I had some insight or I made up stories about why things had happened to me, but nothing changed until I did the resurfacing course with Carrie Skrzypczak, who is amazing, and she had this peacefulness about her.
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I met her in a networking meeting, and I just liked her, and I kept going back.
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So I did the resurfacing course, which is the three-day course, and Ginger, just like you, it was transparent beliefs, right?
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That exercise blew me away.
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So I was- Mm-hmm working on some money, money mindset.
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I, um, had opened a practice in classical homeopathy, and the business wasn't going the way I wanted it to go.
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And there we do this exercise, and underneath there's something about my father from- You know, from my childhood, running my whole business, something I didn't even know was in my consciousness.
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So that was transformative.
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And it took me a long time to do the full course.
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I had a belief I couldn't afford it.
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Um, I was, what Harry says, I was in the jug.
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I was the pumpkin in the jug.
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You put the- pumpkin in the jug to protect the pumpkins- and the pumpkin gets stuck.
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And Carrie would come give me another mini course lesson, and then she'd do another exercise.
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And because I was using what I had learned, and it was working.
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And she'd
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say, "You're not creating this." I'm like, "What are you talking about?
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What do you mean creating this?" You know?
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And it was such a new concept for me.
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And then I decided...
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they said I could repeat Resurfacing for $80, so I signed up.
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And then the Friday before, I had 500 extra dollars for section two.
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Wow.
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And then I charged that last part, section three, to get all those great tools.
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And I have a friend who walked out with a check and said, "Could you use $1,000 this week?" And I'm like, "I really could." Yeah.
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And I paid it off right away.
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And then I jumped into Masters and, you know, it is...
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But it's been...
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The tools are so practical, as Ginger said, and then you just apply them.
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But things move.
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Things change.
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So my business has changed.
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My relationships has changed.
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People don't get my goat as much.
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Okay.
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Not as reactive.
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I think, um, I think it's changed every part of my life.
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That's amazing Casey?
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Well, let's see.
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I was first introduced to it by another, person who was in another a whole different class.
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We had little weekly meetings in this group of people, and She was just different than everybody else.
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We were all studying the same thing and talking about the same thing, but there was something very different about her and her approach.
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And from time to time, she'd mention the Avatar program, but she d- didn't really say anything about it, just that, she was going there this weekend or something, you know?
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And, I just kept logging that in the back of my brain that she was doing this other thing, and I didn't know what it was.
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And then, There was one time when we were in this, little group and we all knew each other and everything was going along fine, but we were not...
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Whatever it is we were working on, it wasn't really gelling.
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You know, it wasn't happening.
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And this woman took a moment, she said, "Could I just take a pause?
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You guys can go ahead if you need to, but I'm just gonna take a pause here for a minute." And I thought, "Okay, well, okay." And she just sat there, and we were on a
Zoom call.
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I was watching everybody else, but I kept watching her and I thought, "What is she doing exactly?" When she came back in, verbally came back in, she changed the whole mood of the group, everybody in it.
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She had solutions.
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She had, like she just changed our perspective in that one, little...
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She must not have been sitting there like that for more than 30 to 60 seconds, It was like a very short time, but she came back and she was a power force, and I just went, "Okay, I don't know what she was doing, but I want some of that." I, I...
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She got so clear and so focused and so, positive with new ideas and new ways of thinking about what we were struggling with, and it was just so amazing what she pulled off.
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And then later, I asked her about it.
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I said, "So what exactly were you doing?" And she could hardly even remember it.
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But I gave her some specifics and she goes, "Oh, I was just doing my avatar thing." And I said, "Okay, tell me about it." And I had a lot of resistance in the beginning, just because that's kind of my, was my nature to just like, you know, "Okay, sounds good, but, mm, I don't know." And, um, she just kept inviting me, kept saying, "You know, I think this could really help you.
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I think this would be good for you." And man, hook, line, and sinker.
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That I just went.
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I went through the resurfacing and I thought, "Okay, that's great, but that's not enough." I want more.
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I want more.
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And so s- you know, here I am now.
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I've done all the courses, and they're all fabulous, and they all build on one another.
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And, it has changed my life, just like the other two said.
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It's changed my life in so many ways I can't even- I can't even verbalize them, but it's, it's been a really powerful, transformative experience.
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It is.
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There, there's a presence, right, in the community.
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Mm-hmm.
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There's just a presence.
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I think for me, I had never been in a community as non-judgmental.
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Yeah.
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And I thought, "These people are weird." It's amazing.
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They could talk about politics, they could talk about healthcare.
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It didn't matter what it was.
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And there was just this, like, calm "Oh, that's interesting." It was so fascinating to me.
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I'm like, "What is happening
here?"
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Yeah.
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They, they do.
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Um, all, all of the community, they're very open and receptive and loving and caring, and no judgment.
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Absolutely no judgment.
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They accept it all, whatever it is.
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Yeah, and the good thing is, is so have we.
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Yeah.
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Good.
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Yeah, I really like how the course is split up.
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The nine days is split up into three sections.
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Mm-hmm.
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I did the same thing, so I went to the first couple days.
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I was actually supposed to go on vacation and go visit some of my family, and I already had the time off of work, and I went and I did the first two days, and I did the transparent belief exercise.
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It's an exercise where you find a belief that you are living your life through.
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Something underlying that you're filtering- the way that you're being
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through.
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Huh,
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Ginger?
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The one that has n- that, that belief that has no evidence.
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Yeah.
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And you don't- You try to even know that it's there.
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Yeah.
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So-
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Well, and for
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me, it's always been something so ridiculous.
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Yeah.
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How could I possibly believe that?
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Yeah.
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But I did.
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Brains fabulous, what they've done with all these indoctrinations and beliefs we've had.
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It's wild.
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Yeah.
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I, I think one of the most valuable lessons that I've learned from, um, from my, what, you know, we call a QM, our qualified master, and I remember in one of the courses I was, I was irritated about something, you know?
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And so I call.
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I said, "Patty, I'm just...
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I don't wanna..." And I'll never forget, she said, "Oh, Ginger, it's just all your indoctrinations coming up." You know?
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It's true.
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Every time I have been upset about anything, it's some kind of indoctrination that absolutely has no truth to it.
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It's amazing.
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It's amazing how free we can become.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's
the, that's the word, free, freedom.
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That's what I feel now.
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Yeah.
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Freedom.
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I feel
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clean.
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Yeah.
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I feel like I have another- That's good space.
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Like- That's good we have all this free attention now to- Yeah really do what we wanna do instead of all of this, you know, chatter in our head and worry and...
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Yeah.
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One of my big intentions was to heal an ankle, and I went from ankle replacement surgery to I'm walking and my ankle is healed-
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Mm
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just from changing my mindset doing one of the courses.
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Mm-hmm.
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Um,
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so anything is happen...
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Anything can happen when you're an Avatar.
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That's right.
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I did the same thing that you did, Diana.
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I did the two days and then I canceled my trip and I did another five days.
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It's funny when you start the course and you're just kinda like, "What is going on here?" Mm-hmm.
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And then once you start doing it, you're like, "I am not leaving.
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I wanna do all of this." Like, "I need to know more about this." And it's so freeing.
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My husband said that was, the most stress-free week he's ever had.
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Because you do.
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You free up so much of that, whatever's going on in your mind that's running and taking up so much of your energy just in circles, and you don't even realize that it's happening Casey, you said you had some hesitations about the course.
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Um, yeah, because there was many, many hesitations.
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One of them was financial, and I found a way to get over that.
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But the more, more important one to me is I have a very strong spiritual practice, and as I got more into, the Avatar program, I started, being worried, I guess, that it was going to...
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Like, there was gonna be some kind of collision or, some sort of thing that didn't jive with my spiritual self.
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And, it concerned me for a while.
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I mean, not super concerned, but it was just like, okay, that's the line, you know?
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There's a line there that this program could possibly step over, and I didn't want that.
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But the longer- The longer I was in it, the less and less it was a problem, and more and more that they melded
together, really well.
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My spiritual program is actually enhanced by The Avatar program.
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It's been beneficial for me in, clearing my head so that I am more receptive and, more focused.
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And that way I can get into that source being kind of thing so easily, and the two things just flow together.
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I guess that's what I'm saying.
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It's not a problem even though I was trying to invent a problem.
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So there was some hesitation in the beginning about that being possibly being a problem, but it isn't.
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Do you think, Casey, it's because it's too good to be true?
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In some ways, maybe.
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Like we have this idea...
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You know, I'm a classical homeopath, so when I tell people what a classical remedy can do, they look at me like I'm crazy.
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They look at me like I'm nuts.
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Like, there's no way that you really have a medicine that's gonna address my anxiety and my asthma and my- Yeah Tarlov, right?
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And I feel like it's like that way with, there's like this suspicion, with good reason too, because- Mm-hmm there's so many programs that once you're in or, you know, you get to meet some of these, quote unquote, gurus, and there's some ick factor there.
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Mm.
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Uh, so I think that's part of this journey is to, you know, you just, you start doing the exercises and you trust them, and then you move, and then you keep going.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know, I have a teenage son.
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He's like, "I don't know about this Avatar.
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You've changed too quickly." You know what I mean?
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My response was, "Would you like me to yell at you more the way I used to?" He's like, "No, really." That's what I brought through in my first course, the, the business, and I'm like, please, I need to figure out how to live with my teenage son.
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Yep.
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'Cause he likes to get on my goat, which is very different.
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Yeah.
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So yeah.
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So, and people notice.
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People see the change.
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I, I think my clients notice a difference in me.
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I think people can feel it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I do.
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Yeah, people can definitely feel it.
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And our spiritual practices for me become clear...
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It became clearer for me- Mm-hmm the way we
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feel.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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I agree.
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My- me too.
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I think it's awesome that there is no spiritual practice that the founder, Harry Palmer, he doesn't offer any kind of spiritual- guidance.
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Everything is basically, you bring what you bring and you work on what you wanna work on.
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There's no indoctrination.
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No more indoctrination added.
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Yeah.
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No.
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Agenda, just- Managing that indoctrination.
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Yeah.
00:19:12.538 --> 00:19:14.428
Yeah.
00:19:14.428 --> 00:19:27.567
If I had to say he has anything that he wants us to learn, it's more on the guidance of being compassionate, being present, and, Right.
00:19:27.567 --> 00:19:28.577
Yeah yeah.
00:19:29.577 --> 00:19:30.958
And in service.
00:19:30.958 --> 00:19:33.998
I mean, this is a community that's in service to others.
00:19:34.048 --> 00:19:34.708
Yeah.
00:19:34.708 --> 00:19:36.548
Absolutely.
00:19:36.548 --> 00:19:36.627
Yeah.
00:19:36.627 --> 00:19:52.798
My, my favorite Harry story is the one that I think Avra tells about how He had this chicken and she couldn't go out into the coop, or wouldn't, and he discovered that she was blind.
00:19:53.597 --> 00:19:54.018
Mm.
00:19:54.238 --> 00:20:05.357
And so every day he would take her out and put her into the open coop so she could do her chicken thing, and then he would go get her and bring her in at night when he called all the chickens back to the coop.
00:20:05.357 --> 00:20:05.867
Yeah.
00:20:05.867 --> 00:20:10.548
And Avra said, "Wow, Harry.
00:20:10.548 --> 00:20:26.548
You're gonna have to do that for her for the rest of her life." And Harry said, "No, I get to serve her for the rest of her life." And I thought, "I want a heart like that."
00:20:27.857 --> 00:20:28.288
Yeah.
00:20:28.498 --> 00:20:30.317
I want a heart like that.
00:20:30.317 --> 00:20:37.147
Yeah And that's what is possible in becoming an Avatar.
00:20:38.387 --> 00:20:38.897
Mm-hmm.
00:20:38.897 --> 00:20:46.198
Yeah, you keep shedding those layers that hold you down.
00:20:46.198 --> 00:20:46.978
Mm-hmm.
00:20:46.988 --> 00:20:48.268
So many layers.
00:20:48.268 --> 00:20:49.397
Yeah.
00:20:49.397 --> 00:20:53.317
So many beliefs, so much indoctrination.
00:20:53.317 --> 00:20:54.738
It's fascinating.
00:20:54.738 --> 00:20:55.827
We don't think about it.
00:20:55.827 --> 00:21:02.907
We don't think about, you know, things that we learned as children that really don't make any sense, you know?
00:21:03.008 --> 00:21:03.428
Yeah.
00:21:03.428 --> 00:21:07.557
Or maybe they did at one time, but they certainly don't anymore.
00:21:09.248 -->
00:21:10.917
I don't think they ever made any sense.
00:21:12.028 --> 00:21:12.307
I've
00:21:12.307 --> 00:21:14.038
hypnotized too many people.
00:21:14.038 --> 00:21:23.988
Helped them quit smoking, quit overeating, trust me, none of those files that these people found when they were kids made any sense.
00:21:23.988 --> 00:21:26.428
But they believed them anyway.
00:21:28.238 --> 00:21:47.938
One of the things I was gonna say, Paula, that, is not really a hesitation, but it's in the beginning when I was taking the Avatar courses, the exercises are so simple that I would think to myself, "What is this gonna do for me?" You know?
00:21:47.938 --> 00:22:00.968
I mean, it's just like, "Okay, I'm gonna walk outside and look at things and almost every exercise, maybe in the resurfacing part anyway, um, was like that for me.
00:22:00.968 --> 00:22:33.147
But I began to see over time how, oh, it was so basic that I didn't really get the significance of it until I was already through the courses and I'd go, "Oh, it's training my brain how to re-perceive the world in a better way," without all the filters and all the indoctrination, and all of this stuff that I, the baggage that I carried with me.
00:22:33.147 --> 00:22:44.048
It was going beyond my mental space and more into, the consciousness space, of how to work with your own consciousness.
00:22:44.048 --> 00:22:47.738
It wasn't just about, taking a walk and counting things.
00:22:47.738 --> 00:23:00.587
It was actually teaching my brain how to perceive things differently, which has been really amazing.
00:23:00.587 --> 00:23:02.218
Really, really amazing.
00:23:02.218 --> 00:23:07.887
So don't worry about it being like a silly little exercise that you don't get.
00:23:07.887 --> 00:23:12.657
Do it anyway and you know- You'll get it you'll get it eventually.
00:23:12.657 --> 00:23:13.018
You'll get it.
00:23:14.258 --> 00:23:14.998
We all get it.
00:23:15.488 --> 00:23:16.077
Yeah.
00:23:18.748 --> 00:23:27.718
Ginger or Diana, did either of you have any hesitations or anybody that, was like, "Oh, you shouldn't do the course," or any of that kind of stuff come up?
00:23:29.121 --> 00:23:29.391
Yeah.
00:23:29.391 --> 00:23:31.750
I mean, I think people thought I was crazy.
00:23:31.750 --> 00:23:33.871
Like, what are these courses?
00:23:33.871 --> 00:23:34.740
What are you doing?
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:40.671
I mean, I spent several weekends that first year on course, right?
00:23:40.671 --> 00:23:45.111
I mean, we, we did a lot, Yeah, I think the people were like, "What's...
00:23:45.111 --> 00:23:45.611
What is it?
00:23:45.611 --> 00:23:47.701
Is it a cult?" The big question.
00:23:47.701 --> 00:23:55.961
And I'm like, "Oh, for heaven's sake, do you think everything's a cult, people?" Um- Yes, they do you know, it's so, it's so funny, right?
00:23:55.961 --> 00:24:00.490
But this is, like, a place where you're told what not to believe, There's no- I
00:24:00.490 --> 00:24:02.151
don't know.
00:24:02.151 --> 00:24:11.121
No, but I did it anyway, and I think it was the thing, you know, I'm in my 50s, and I did this for myself, and most of my life I have not done things for myself.
00:24:11.121 --> 00:24:22.090
I've done things to take care of other people, and I was like, "I'm gonna do this thing." And, you know, when I did resurfacing, so that was 18 months before I did the full program.
00:24:22.090 --> 00:24:23.161
That's a long time.
00:24:23.161 --> 00:24:27.131
I would do those exercises, and I knew it was helping me.
00:24:27.131 --> 00:24:29.701
You know, all these things.
00:24:29.701 --> 00:24:35.421
Um, and I, but I really, I wanted more, and I knew I was going to do it.
00:24:35.421 --> 00:24:40.971
I just couldn't, I couldn't, you know, spend the money on myself, I think, is what it really is.
00:24:42.191 --> 00:24:42.411
Yeah.
00:24:42.411 --> 00:24:43.461
And then I think- It's an investment.
00:24:43.931 --> 00:24:44.211
Yeah.
00:24:44.540 --> 00:24:44.980
Yeah.
00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:47.770
It is an investment, but boy, is it worth it.
00:24:48.798 --> 00:24:49.137
Yeah.
00:24:49.137 --> 00:24:52.433
Yeah, and I think people, because other people maybe are not going...
00:24:52.433 --> 00:24:55.503
You know, not everybody wants to change.
00:24:55.503 --> 00:24:58.784
I mean, this program's about taking responsibility for your own crap.
00:24:58.784 --> 00:24:59.193
Yeah.
00:24:59.193 --> 00:25:00.983
And not everyone can do that.
00:25:01.814 --> 00:25:02.433
Definitely.
00:25:02.433 --> 00:25:04.653
A lot of people are not open to that.
00:25:04.653 --> 00:25:13.094
I see that in people where even if I bring it up, it's like automatically shut me down.
00:25:13.094 --> 00:25:13.433
Like-
00:25:14.003 --> 00:25:14.344
Mm-hmm
00:25:14.364 --> 00:25:19.064
they're so closed off and almost, go into attack mode.
00:25:19.064 --> 00:25:28.594
Like, you will not- You will not make me change in any way and make me vulnerable, or make me responsible for my own feelings or...
00:25:28.594 --> 00:25:29.023
You know what I mean?
00:25:29.023 --> 00:25:31.743
It's like a defense mechanism, with some people.
00:25:31.743 --> 00:25:33.193
I'm like, "Okay, relax."
00:25:33.753 --> 00:25:34.294
Yeah.
00:25:34.294 --> 00:25:37.644
But think about it, living your whole life blaming other people for your life.
00:25:37.644 --> 00:25:38.394
Mm-hmm.
00:25:38.394 --> 00:25:38.824
Yeah.
00:25:38.824 --> 00:25:42.923
Paula comes along and says, "Hey, take some personal responsibility."
00:25:46.534 --> 00:25:47.614
The nerve of you.
00:25:49.223 --> 00:26:00.589
Well, I mean, you can be happy and live the life of your dreams, but you also have to- Go through your crap and own it and feel it and let it go.
00:26:00.589 --> 00:26:06.869
If you don't, you're gonna be stuck where you're at, and a lot of people- Mm-hmm are not happy where they're at.
00:26:08.410 --> 00:26:10.549
Most people are not happy where they're at.
00:26:11.049 -->
00:26:11.619
Yeah.
00:26:12.329 --> 00:26:24.539
Even if they're not willing to admit it, they know somewhere on some level that this is not who I am or this is not what I want or, you know, it could be so much better.
00:26:26.230 --> 00:26:36.259
Well, I know for myself, I mean, like I said, I started the transformation world when I was 27 years old, and I knew there was something else to, some other way to think.
00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:42.500
But through the years what I've discovered mostly about people is fear.
00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:43.960
Mm.
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:53.240
Because one of the great things about the Avatar program is it communicates with the ego, 'cause the ego doesn't wanna change.
00:26:53.240 --> 00:27:03.289
It's fixed itself in a way, and the ego's purpose is to protect the being or whatever the being says it is.
00:27:03.289 --> 00:27:06.259
So it has a mission, and it's a good mission.
00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:15.829
Unfortunately, whenever the being makes a decision, the ego says, "Okay, that's the way it is," and then it puts a dog at the front door.
00:27:15.829 --> 00:27:29.170
Like, "Come on and change that." And those, it's the, it's our own dogs that we have to go and be nice to to get them out of the way so we can change.
00:27:29.170 --> 00:27:38.493
One of the greatest things, is- It goes in the back door of the doghouse, and the dog don't see you're there until it's over.
00:27:38.493 --> 00:27:43.173
So there's no upset in the ego.
00:27:43.173 --> 00:27:50.433
The ego doesn't get upset because everything is in third person usually, and so the ego doesn't take it personal.
00:27:51.403 --> 00:27:51.663
Mm.
00:27:51.663 --> 00:27:51.713
'Cause,
00:27:51.864 --> 00:28:02.614
I mean, and it's a crazy way that we're designed, but the ego says, "Oh, you're really talking about them." And the truth is you're talking about yourself.
00:28:02.614 --> 00:28:11.223
But it's one of the best ways I've ever seen people to go in when they're afraid of something, and these exercises are non-threatening.
00:28:11.223 --> 00:28:16.284
They're, you know, they're like elementary school once you do them once or twice.
00:28:16.284 --> 00:28:20.784
I'm laughing and thinking, thinking about what Casey said about, "You want me to count stuff?" 'Cause I...
00:28:20.784 --> 00:28:20.864
the same thing.
00:28:20.864 --> 00:28:28.213
I mean, I can't tell you how many times I made Harry...
00:28:28.213 --> 00:28:34.804
"Harry, what is this I and me?" You know what I mean?
00:28:34.804 --> 00:28:42.213
So, but that was my own resistance to just surrender and go with the flow.
00:28:42.213 --> 00:28:52.183
I had a dog in that place protecting me, 'cause somewhere I've put that dog there to protect me, but I didn't need protecting.
00:28:52.183 --> 00:28:58.003
But until we know that, the ego's job is gonna protect us, and that's a good thing.
00:28:58.003 --> 00:29:00.064
It is a good thing.
00:29:00.830 --> 00:29:02.461
Keeps us safe, right?
00:29:02.461 --> 00:29:02.901
Yeah, it
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:03.361
does.
00:29:03.361 --> 00:29:04.580
It does keep you safe.
00:29:05.391 --> 00:29:13.270
Doesn't Harry say in the pre-intro we give our potential students that to drop from your head consciousness to your heart consciousness?
00:29:13.270 --> 00:29:14.101
Mm.
00:29:14.101 --> 00:29:14.730
Mm-hmm.
00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:18.201
You get out of thinking mode, and you're feeling.
00:29:18.201 --> 00:29:22.260
You're feeling what is around you, and you're feeling your own stuff.
00:29:22.260 --> 00:29:34.601
And for me, who had many caretaker identities, to know that everyone's creating their own life and that I'm not responsible for someone's unhappiness was very freeing.
00:29:34.931 --> 00:29:35.580
Mm-hmm.
00:29:36.510 --> 00:29:38.480
That was very freeing for me.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:42.020
And it's changed the way I'm raising my son Mm-hmm.
00:29:42.020 --> 00:29:43.990
Like, okay, here you go.
00:29:43.990 --> 00:29:46.461
Make a decision.
00:29:46.461 --> 00:29:52.401
Figure out what you wanna do, how you wanna approach school, you know, how you're gonna approach friendships and all of this stuff.
00:29:52.401 --> 00:29:54.250
It's so interesting, what...
00:29:54.250 --> 00:30:01.351
Just having that perception, that, that perspective that in fact we're creating our life whether we know it or not.
00:30:01.351 --> 00:30:03.691
Whether- Yeah right, Ginger?
00:30:03.691 --> 00:30:04.465
Whether we like it or not.
00:30:04.465 --> 00:30:04.711
Whether you
00:30:04.711 --> 00:30:05.550
like it or not.
00:30:07.570 --> 00:30:08.221
Irrelevant.
00:30:08.451 --> 00:30:10.121
That's a whole different conversation.
00:30:11.161 --> 00:30:13.661
I stayed with a mentally ill man for 19 years.
00:30:13.661 --> 00:30:14.601
Mm.
00:30:14.601 --> 00:30:17.800
And I decided every day to stay until I decided not to.
00:30:17.800 --> 00:30:19.471
I mean, I, I look at that.
00:30:19.471 --> 00:30:22.840
I'm like, "Wow, I did that." I was with him for 19 years.
00:30:22.840 --> 00:30:25.090
We were married for 15 before I left.
00:30:25.090 --> 00:30:28.381
And after a psychotic breakdown, I stayed 10 years.
00:30:28.381 --> 00:30:29.320
Oh, wow.
00:30:29.320 --> 00:30:34.540
And I look back at that young woman, and I'm like, "What were you thinking or not thinking?" Yeah.
00:30:34.540 --> 00:30:39.760
Or, "What was your indoctrination?" But now I can look back and say, "I did that.
00:30:39.760 --> 00:30:40.371
I...
00:30:40.371 --> 00:30:43.810
Every day I decided to stay-" Yeah until I didn't."
00:30:44.171 --> 00:30:44.280
So
00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:44.351
I
00:30:44.351 --> 00:30:45.570
can't blame anybody.
00:30:45.570 --> 00:30:47.050
Right.
00:30:47.050 --> 00:30:48.280
I can't.
00:30:48.280 --> 00:30:50.310
We're always deciding and choosing.
00:30:50.310 --> 00:30:51.101
Yeah.
00:30:51.101 --> 00:30:51.280
Yep.
00:30:51.421 --> 00:30:52.131
I decide.
00:30:52.131 -->
00:30:54.270
Over and over.
00:30:54.270 --> 00:30:56.221
I decide.
00:30:56.221 --> 00:31:00.111
I think it's really funny too the awareness of consciousness.
00:31:00.111 --> 00:31:00.570
Mm.
00:31:00.570 --> 00:31:01.540
The expansion.
00:31:01.540 --> 00:31:08.300
I loved when we learned how to, have a viewpoint on the other side of the object.
00:31:09.111 --> 00:31:09.621
Mm-hmm.
00:31:09.621 --> 00:31:09.730
It's
00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:11.820
like, wow, we can actually do that.
00:31:11.820 --> 00:31:12.871
That is so cool.
00:31:12.871 --> 00:31:17.510
I know exactly what the back of that person's head looks like- without turning and then looking.
00:31:17.510 --> 00:31:18.721
I can see it.
00:31:18.721 --> 00:31:23.131
It's amazing at the awareness that opens up for us.
00:31:23.381 --> 00:31:23.701
Mm-hmm.
00:31:24.161 --> 00:31:30.661
Ginger, do you feel like when you work with clients that you're feeling them differently, that you're a different practitioner?
00:31:30.661 --> 00:31:31.431
You too, Casey.
00:31:31.431 --> 00:31:32.601
You work with people, too.
00:31:32.601 --> 00:31:36.750
How, how has that changed for you, those relationships with clients?
00:31:37.621 --> 00:31:43.201
Well, the, one of the things that changed with me is I started attracting the kind of client that I really wanted to have.
00:31:43.851 --> 00:31:44.361
Uh-huh.
00:31:44.711 --> 00:31:53.340
So a lot of, you know, I, I could no longer say, "Well, I don't know why that person called me." Well, because you created it, that's why.
00:31:53.340 --> 00:31:54.480
So I'd...
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:57.230
Oh, n- I, hey, you're creating this, girl.
00:31:57.230 --> 00:31:59.371
You know, if you don't like it, shift it.
00:31:59.371 --> 00:32:03.601
So, um, that is the number one thing.
00:32:03.601 --> 00:32:06.631
As a matter of fact, I'm no longer on the table.
00:32:06.631 --> 00:32:09.270
That's how much I'm creating something different.
00:32:09.270 --> 00:32:13.570
So I have a whole different kind of clientele coming at me now.
00:32:13.570 --> 00:32:15.121
I don't do body work anymore.
00:32:15.121 --> 00:32:18.020
And that came out of Avatar.
00:32:18.931 --> 00:32:19.250
Hmm.
00:32:19.830 --> 00:32:26.570
It's creating another way so that I d- I'm not a slave to doing that an- I don't have to do one-on-one anymore
00:32:31.800 --> 00:32:36.891
So you're choosing to do what you want now instead of what you thought- I'm choosing, um- you had to do?
00:32:37.371 --> 00:32:42.221
Well, my passion has always been to help people remember how magnificent they are.
00:32:42.221 --> 00:32:47.611
I just took the physical approach, but now I'm more interested...
00:32:47.611 --> 00:32:52.270
I've done enough physical, helping people physically get their self back together.
00:32:52.270 --> 00:32:55.211
Now it's time to do something other than that.
00:32:55.211 --> 00:32:55.230
Hmm.
00:32:55.230 --> 00:33:10.590
So it's more of an advance- it's more of a, um, manifestation of a passion that I've had but I haven't done anything about, 'cause I've been distracted doing it, doing something else.
00:33:10.590 --> 00:33:16.020
That has been rewarding, but not as satisfying as where I am headed.
00:33:16.020 --> 00:33:20.250
So I have closed down my treatment room and rented it out.
00:33:21.631 --> 00:33:22.381
Oh, nice.
00:33:22.391 --> 00:33:24.171
So I put myself in a box.
00:33:24.171 --> 00:33:27.560
I couldn't go back, 'cause I know how my ego is.
00:33:27.560 --> 00:33:31.240
I've been trying to do this for two years.
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:35.655
And finally said, "Okay, that's enough.
00:33:35.655 --> 00:33:37.915
I'm not doing that anymore.
00:33:37.915 --> 00:33:40.685
I'm doing this." So here I am
00:33:42.321 --> 00:33:43.362
How about you, Casey?
00:33:43.362 --> 00:33:50.036
Do you find that you show up differently with your clients or your relationships have changed with your clientele?
00:33:51.542 --> 00:33:56.663
It's still the same clientele, but yes, I show up differently now.
00:33:56.663 --> 00:34:16.659
One of the things I do is I'm a yoga teacher, and, I'm finding more and more that Avatar is coming into my teaching, and I'm teaching in a more inspirational way, than I used to.
00:34:16.659 --> 00:34:24.650
And I think as far as my Ayurvedic clients, I think I am more, sensitive to their objections.
00:34:24.650 --> 00:34:32.019
I'll say, "Try massaging with oil," for example.
00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:39.760
And I had one client that go, "Oh, nope, I don't use oil." Oil is a big deal in Ayurveda.
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:45.530
Oil is important, and it has amazing qualities and benefits.
00:34:45.530 --> 00:35:16.306
But, I'm more able now to see behind that immediate objection, like, "Oh, I'm not gonna do that," or, "I can't do that," or whatever, and just I know how to somehow shift my own thinking to Offer it in a different way so that it's more acceptable to them I don't know how it works actually, but, it works.
00:35:16.306 --> 00:35:17.016
It works.
00:35:17.016 --> 00:35:34.485
I just figure out what their hangup is or what their objection is and find another way to offer them something that I know would be good for them that circumvents their objection to it.
00:35:35.306 --> 00:35:36.577
More solution oriented?
00:35:36.746 --> 00:36:01.748
Not so much solution oriented, but, um- Just open to having them put up their objection, but still have them go with the program It's like, "Okay, you can have your objection, but this is what we're gonna do." I don't really understand it, but it's working.
00:36:01.748 --> 00:36:02.708
When you
00:36:02.708 --> 00:36:15.538
Create space for somebody- Yeah to be heard- Yeah and then you don't react, and instead you give them your explanation for why you think it, it will be beneficial.
00:36:15.538 --> 00:36:26.797
I think not having, that abrupt defensiveness and not showing up like that is what really then lets somebody be more open to
it.
00:36:26.797 --> 00:36:27.807
Because they're like, "Oh, okay.
00:36:27.807 --> 00:36:31.077
She's not gonna just automatically be like, 'Ugh.
00:36:31.077 --> 00:36:32.958
Well, you're not gonna do what I say.'"
00:36:33.748 --> 00:36:33.947
Yeah.
00:36:35.367 --> 00:36:35.458
I feel, Diana.
00:36:35.458 --> 00:36:35.898
Yeah.
00:36:35.898 --> 00:36:36.447
Yeah.
00:36:36.527 --> 00:36:38.047
It is, it is like that.
00:36:38.197 --> 00:36:38.637
Yeah.
00:36:38.648 --> 00:36:53.467
Well, and maybe it's just not resisting wherever the client is too, because I think that's- Yeah part of this work, is being present and- Yeah accepting people where they are, you know, in the moment, right?
00:36:53.467 --> 00:36:53.887
Yeah.
00:36:53.887 --> 00:36:54.023
Yeah.
00:36:54.023 --> 00:36:55.467
You aren't trying to change the client.
00:36:56.088 --> 00:36:56.527
Yeah.
00:36:56.527 --> 00:36:56.967
Yeah.
00:36:56.967 --> 00:37:05.447
I'm not trying to change them, I'm just trying to offer them another solution, and sooner or later I'll get them to see that it is a better solution.
00:37:05.447 --> 00:37:05.838
I know
00:37:07.978 --> 00:37:17.757
for me that m- I think probably one of the most powerful exercises that I use with clients is the no response response.
00:37:18.387 --> 00:37:18.788
Mm.
00:37:20.318 --> 00:37:24.967
Learning that really did, because I don't bark back.
00:37:25.818 --> 00:37:26.177
Yeah.
00:37:26.177 --> 00:37:28.538
You know, I go, "Oh." You know?
00:37:28.538 --> 00:37:33.498
So maybe that's what's happening, Casey, is you're doing the no response response.
00:37:34.018 --> 00:37:34.387
Yeah.
00:37:34.387 --> 00:37:36.074
Yeah.
00:37:36.074 --> 00:37:40.744
I'm just letting the objection, whatever it is, be there and- Yeah okay.
00:37:40.744 --> 00:37:42.905
That's fine.
00:37:42.905 --> 00:37:45.010
We'll find another way.
00:37:45.764 --> 00:37:47.844
I do, regulatory work.
00:37:47.844 --> 00:37:48.735
Mm-hmm.
00:37:48.735 --> 00:37:53.425
So, you know,, Nobody wants to be told what to do, especially within their own business.
00:37:53.425 --> 00:37:53.775
Mm.
00:37:53.775 --> 00:38:00.958
And before where I would've been, defensive or, like, "Well, you know, this is the way it is," Yeah.
00:38:00.958 --> 00:38:05.777
"Why are you gonna argue with me or get an attitude?" That's not really gonna help the situation, or more reactive.
00:38:05.777 --> 00:38:20.117
Now I'm able to show up and- Mm just hold space and Not only not be reactive, but come from more of a compassionate, understanding.
00:38:20.117 --> 00:38:21.668
I don't...
00:38:21.668 --> 00:38:23.367
That's not even the right words for it.
00:38:23.367 --> 00:38:35.398
I think one of the biggest takeaways I had from the first Avatar course was that I could feel like I could love everybody regardless of what they do.
00:38:35.398 --> 00:38:37.907
It doesn't matter what they do.
00:38:37.907 --> 00:38:37.918
Mm.
00:38:37.918 --> 00:38:41.378
It matters how I feel.
00:38:41.378 --> 00:38:42.068
Mm-hmm.
00:38:42.068 --> 00:38:46.728
And I don't have to let whatever they say or do affect that.
00:38:46.728 --> 00:39:07.358
I can still come from a loving place and just hold that vibe or whatever you wanna call it, and not be rocked by it, When I stay in that space and I don't get reactive or Have any ill will towards people, they change.
00:39:07.358 --> 00:39:09.369
Their whole persona changes.
00:39:09.369 --> 00:39:19.318
And then the way that they relate to me, because they realize that I'm not gonna get defensive, it's like the walls come down.
00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:20.548
Mm-hmm.
00:39:20.548 --> 00:39:21.599
Yeah.
00:39:23.612 --> 00:39:23.851
Yeah.
00:39:24.141 --> 00:39:33.652
So I took the course, and then my son broke something with his braces or so- I don't know what happened, but we had to go to the orthodontist, so I picked him up from school, and he was mad at me.
00:39:33.652 --> 00:39:38.081
And I just practiced my little exercise from the course.
00:39:38.081 --> 00:39:39.302
This was after Masters.
00:39:39.302 --> 00:39:42.472
And he was very upset.
00:39:42.472 --> 00:39:43.791
He was being mean.
00:39:43.791 --> 00:39:46.231
He was, you know, all the things, and I just stayed.
00:39:46.231 --> 00:39:48.181
I just stayed in my space, didn't react.
00:39:48.181 --> 00:39:52.461
And by the time we drove up to the door, he said, "You know, I didn't mean any of that.
00:39:52.461 --> 00:40:01.242
Thanks so much for taking me to get this fixed." And that- Wow and I think that's, that was like your experience, Casey, in that group, right, in the Zoom.
00:40:01.242 --> 00:40:13.942
That if we change ourselves, if we stay- Mm-hmm you know, open and- Mm non-judgmental, I think is a big part of this, people around us shift.
00:40:13.942 --> 00:40:13.972
Mm-hmm.
00:40:13.972 --> 00:40:16.222
It happens all the time.
00:40:16.222 --> 00:40:23.382
Something you said earlier, Diana, I've discovered too is my ego lives in my head, not in my heart.
00:40:24.032 --> 00:40:24.442
Mm.
00:40:24.762 --> 00:40:35.251
So if I can connect with my heart, I'm much more open and softer and easier to talk to and easier to be around myself.
00:40:35.251 --> 00:40:36.751
And myself.
00:40:36.751 --> 00:40:39.981
I'm not even talking about anybody out there.
00:40:39.981 --> 00:40:44.121
I just generate love from my heart.
00:40:45.222 --> 00:40:45.322
Oh.
00:40:45.322 --> 00:40:55.101
Are there any other- Hmm insights or anything else anybody wants to share before we wrap up?
00:40:56.175 --> 00:41:05.775
I think I would just say if anybody out there is even a little bit interested, it's worth investigating further.
00:41:05.775 --> 00:41:14.025
Try it on,, at least go through the first, the resurfacing part, and just see what that feels like
00:41:16.869 --> 00:41:25.773
Yeah, I think that's, great that you can do the two days and then decide, you can decide on the spot, at the last minute- okay, I wanna stay
and do more.
00:41:25.773 --> 00:41:32.480
Or even now, you know, it's on Zoom, right,, a lot of times,, so stay in your house and do more.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.273
Yeah.
00:41:35.273 --> 00:41:55.673
I think when I first started doing the course, I wasn't surrounded by very supportive people, and I took the first course, but then I didn't really practice a lot of it, but there were still pieces of it that I...
00:41:55.673 --> 00:42:22.103
You know, e- every time you do a course, right, like you can redo them, and then you show up as like a different version of yourself, 'cause you've grown and matured and all that, so when I first did it, I was 28, about 20 years ago, and I wasn't really sure about it, and I had a family member that was like really overbearing and trying to tell me that I was like doing Satan worship or something.
00:42:22.103 --> 00:42:28.403
I was only 28, and I was kind of not really sure of what I was getting into either.
00:42:28.403 --> 00:43:12.186
And so I didn't use the tools that much, but it still, it changed my life in so many ways, because I think after learning and just having a lot of the insights from the course, not only did I show up differently, but I also believed in myself more., I was like, "Okay, well, everybody else that I work with might say that this isn't possible for me to get this promotion or for me to move out of here because nobody ever does it, but I'm gonna do it and or at least try and see." So it gave me that, that perspective of everybody says the ceiling is here, but from now on, I'm gonna know that, there's possibilities that I can push that ceiling up higher.
00:43:14.067 --> 00:43:15.476
Like permission, Paula.
00:43:15.476 --> 00:43:18.536
It gives us permission to be who we really are.
00:43:19.016 --> 00:43:19.306
Yeah.
00:43:19.306 --> 00:43:19.617
Yes.
00:43:19.617 --> 00:43:20.007
And
00:43:20.007 --> 00:43:22.206
to do what we really want to do.
00:43:22.206 --> 00:43:23.467
It's okay.
00:43:23.467 --> 00:43:23.706
Yeah.
00:43:24.086 --> 00:43:24.336
Yeah.
00:43:24.336 --> 00:43:26.257
Yeah.
00:43:26.257 --> 00:43:26.286
Yeah.
00:43:26.286 --> 00:43:27.106
I think
00:43:27.106 --> 00:43:29.226
that's- I'm so glad you raised the ceiling.
00:43:29.226 --> 00:43:29.567
Yay.
00:43:29.567 --> 00:43:30.717
Right?
00:43:30.717 --> 00:43:41.487
I just keep raising it, And now I'm trying to tell everybody else, "Hey, this ceiling you think is like five inches above your head is really like five feet above your head." 50 feet.
00:43:41.487 --> 00:43:43.637
Or 15.
00:43:43.637 --> 00:43:44.166
Or 50.
00:43:44.166 --> 00:43:44.177
Or...
00:43:44.177 --> 00:43:46.849
Or not even there at all, really.
00:43:46.849 --> 00:43:47.250
Yeah.
00:43:47.250 --> 00:43:47.510
You're just making it up.
00:43:47.510 --> 00:43:48.059
You made the whole thing up.
00:43:48.269 --> 00:43:50.690
It's not even there at all.
00:43:51.050 --> 00:43:51.389
Yep.
00:43:51.389 --> 00:43:54.119
We can create whatever we want.
00:43:54.119 --> 00:43:55.880
We can.
00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:56.699
Mm-hmm.
00:43:56.699 --> 00:43:57.119
Yeah.
00:43:58.599 --> 00:43:59.139
Yeah.
00:43:59.139 --> 00:43:59.659
Why not?
00:43:59.659 --> 00:44:00.603
Yep.
00:44:00.603 --> 00:44:03.500
Thank you ladies so much for coming on.
00:44:03.500 --> 00:44:03.699
Thank you, Paula.
00:44:03.699 --> 00:44:04.710
Thank you, Paula.
00:44:04.710 --> 00:44:13.010
I will put your contact information in the show notes for this, and, if anybody wants to work with you.
00:44:13.010 --> 00:44:15.469
What states are you guys in?
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:17.980
Uh, I'm in Georgia.
00:44:19.699 --> 00:44:21.349
And this is Casey.
00:44:21.349 --> 00:44:23.099
I'm in Portland, Oregon.
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:25.190
I'm in Colorado.
00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:30.429
So Diana's in Colorado, and Ginger is in Georgia.
00:44:30.429 --> 00:44:31.159
Georgia.
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:33.429
Our Southern belle.
00:44:33.429 --> 00:44:34.880
Atlanta, Georgia.
00:44:36.969 --> 00:44:39.329
And we have online courses, right?
00:44:39.329 --> 00:44:40.739
It doesn't even matter.
00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:42.650
Yeah, it really doesn't matter.
00:44:42.650 --> 00:44:46.199
There's just so much, so much opportunity.
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:47.460
Mm-hmm.
00:44:48.829 --> 00:44:54.619
if you know of someone that would be the perfect guest or would like a certain topic explored, please reach out to me.
00:44:54.619 --> 00:45:00.135
My contact information is in the show notes Thank you for listening.
00:45:00.135 --> 00:45:07.115
If you've enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend.
00:45:07.115 --> 00:45:11.153
Until next time, you get to choose who writes your story.
00:45:11.153 --> 00:45:13.143
Let's make it amazing