Fuld transskription af 67. Reimagining Discovery Meetings: Helping Retirees Dream Bigger with Adam Chapman

don't have feelings, but your clients do. 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:21.599 Let's dive in. 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:27.680 Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding. 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:35.039 I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, and today I'm joined by my friend Adam Chapman, founder of Yes Money. 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:37.199 I'm ever here with screaming, yes, Adam. 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:38.800 I'm so glad you're here. 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:40.639 Thank you for agreeing to come on. 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:42.400 Yeah, no, I'm super excited. 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:47.919 And ever since we met a couple of years ago, I've been looking forward to coming on here and having a conversation. 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:50.319 Yeah, and look, today's the day, my friend. 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:51.280 It is here. 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:59.520 And I will say to those of you listening, Adam and I did a pre-record meeting a few weeks ago prior to this. 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.639 And we could have made a recording out of that. 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:05.120 It was so good. 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:06.960 I wish that we had saved that. 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:07.599 It was so good. 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:13.840 And so I have no doubts that today is going to be a great conversation because Adam, I wanted you here. 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:36.319 And something that, you know, we have been trying to do with this podcast is starting to bring on advisors, bring on the actual people who are on the ground, like in the trenches, doing financial planning work, but more than just financial planning work, the human side of financial planning work and really understanding, okay, like what are you seeing that works? 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.080 How is this landing on clients? 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:39.599 What are still some of the struggles? 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.319 And so thank you for coming on and kind of giving us like a peek behind the curtain. 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.639 I'm thanking you kind of in advance here. 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:52.400 I have no doubts that for those that are listening, they're gonna leave with some really great takeaways there. 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:56.560 And with that, let's talk about what we're talking about today. 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.680 All the great things that, yeah, all the great things that you're doing. 00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:07.919 Today, we're gonna look at understanding client behavior and designing really a planning process that actually facilitates it. 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:13.280 I think that from my work, and Adam, I'd like to hear kind of your thoughts on this too. 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:24.720 I think that this is one of the most difficult challenges for advisors, especially those who are human first or like life planners, is understanding that behavior. 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.399 I understand, maybe they do understand, right, a little bit about what's going on. 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:34.319 But then how do I design a plan that in a planning process that facilitates that? 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:35.839 What are your thoughts there? 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:40.160 Well, there are so many people now that are taking an interest in BFI, right? 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:48.639 Like how humans react with money, how do we work with them and elicit better behavior from them or change the behavior that they're doing? 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:50.639 All these things are incredibly difficult. 00:04:50.879 --> 00:05:03.040 And I think one of the biggest challenges for planners who are trying to be a little bit more human first is modifying some of the things that were built for a different purpose, right? 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:18.399 Like your data intake, your projections, and then your recommendations would be a typical sort of financial planning process, but it doesn't always do the greatest job of weaving in that human side. 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:35.759 So I think one of the challenges for people who are trying to get better at this behavioral finance thing, if we want to call it that, is just how do you actually incorporate it into the systems that you're using and how do you modify this stuff that's been around for a while and go, let's tweak this. 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:42.720 We've got to make this work a little bit better with a slightly different angle than what it was originally designed to do, right? 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:53.759 And that's where I think part of the conversation for this sort of became really interesting, is it's something I've been chipping away at for probably close to 15 years at this point. 00:05:53.920 --> 00:06:00.959 I've been in the industry for 20, but started bumping into behavioral challenges with the retirement spending challenge, right? 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:05.600 Which is something I started working with long before people even realized there was an issue here. 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:10.480 In fact, I used to have to prove to people that retirees would struggle to spend. 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.279 It seems to be a little bit more common knowledge now, right? 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:21.360 And this is that just a great example of behavioral finance moving to the forefront of financial planning conversations. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:33.120 But then you still really struggle to take some of those human-first conversations and the behavioral change and questions that we have to work through and put it in a system you can repeat. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:37.120 That's a very difficult thing, especially if that system wasn't built for it. 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:41.120 And I think that's that's one of the big challenges that I think this will be fun to discuss. 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:41.600 Yeah. 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:43.759 I mean, it's not to that point. 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:54.399 I think that what is becoming clearer, more spoken about, more out there is that financial planning

is a behavioral profession, uh, which is fantastic. 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:56.240 It's like kind of check one, right? 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.160 Can we first recognize this? 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.600 And it's like, whoo, yes, okay, all right, we're starting to get there, right? 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.319 And knowing the numbers, it's really not enough. 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:05.439 That's a given. 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:06.800 That's table stakes. 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:11.120 Giving someone good advice also doesn't mean they're gonna follow that advice. 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:15.279 I know that has been a headache for many advisors, oh, for years, right? 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.120 The knowing and doing gap. 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.000 I think, you know, you and I have talked about this too. 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:42.000 And I think that where I know we're gonna be getting into is a lot of the processes that advisors use, they're still really designed around, you know, gathering information, identifying problems, building the plan, presenting recommendations and kind of just a hope and a prayer that clients are gonna act on them. 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:45.120 And maybe even more than a hope and a prayer, maybe an assumption there. 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.439 So let's kind of start here. 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:58.160 If an advisor says behavior is one of the most important parts of financial planning, what should they expect to see in their planning process that really proves that? 00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.439 It's a great question. 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:13.439 And I would say part of it, and I think on this angle, like if I were looking at it as an outside sort of third party looking at another advisor's process, one of the things I would be looking for is just even in the language of their planning process, right? 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:30.720 Because if you look at the traditional sort of advisor thing, and this is on a lot of advisors and financial planning website, it's like here's our intake call, you know, document collection, discovery meeting, recommendation meeting, and then annual review. 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.519 And it's it's always in that sort of little circuit. 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:43.519 But I find language when we start talking about things like behavioral finance, one of the things we actually have to do in a lot of cases is rebrand a lot of what these things are. 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:51.759 They need to be named something different because a lot of these things are actually the technical versions that we named them so that we understood our own process. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:52.639 Yeah, it's true. 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:53.120 Right? 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:58.879 Not necessarily the things that they should be named for what the clients have to do when they show up. 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:07.519 And you know, my Michael Kitsus always makes fun of me when I do some of the work for his Kitz's summits as an ambassador, because I'm very picky on language. 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:16.480 And it's amazing how changing a word or changing something like that can actually change just the whole way clients and advisors come to the table. 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:25.440 And I'll give you one of the best examples because this was probably the first thing I ever changed in the process to get to a slightly different narrative. 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.120 Because a lot of planners have to have people sign an engagement agreement. 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:35.519 I don't love the connotation of it's okay, client, you are hiring us to do X, Y, Z. 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.559 So you are engaging us to do work for you. 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:44.720 So the first word I changed years ago was I called these collaboration agreements instead. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:45.600 I love that. 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:50.879 Just because I love the simplicity of, you know what, that's what financial planning actually is. 00:09:51.279 --> 00:10:01.200 And it even changes the way that you would write how that sounds, how you describe it, how you view what the engagement actually is. 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:11.360 So it actually even changes the client's behavior because they're even coming in with a totally different wording and presumption of what this work together actually is. 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:17.279 It actually sets the stage of you have your work to do, I have my work to do. 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:21.519 And it's the two of us coming together and collaborating that's going to get you the best result. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:29.440 If you just hire us and you do absolutely nothing and then we do all kinds of work, you're probably not going to get a really good financial plan. 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:29.919 True. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:37.679 Collaboration really seems to work better and just a simple wording change, but then you will find it filters through the document. 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:44.879 If you label something collaboration agreement and then read it, it needs to sound like a collaboration agreement too. 00:10:45.200 --> 00:11:03.759 So simple changes like that, when we're looking at sort of the process, can often start with just let's look at what you're calling some of these meetings and some of these documents and say, is there a better way to name it or do it to get us better behavioral results as clients work through it? 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:04.080 Right. 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:12.320 And collaboration, I think, is a great place to start, but there's obviously other areas I would rebrand as well as in this whole process. 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:16.080 I like the collaboration aspect, shockingly, right? 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.480 Like the therapist likes the word collaboration. 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:18.799 Yes. 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:24.000 Um, but I I like it for all the things that you said. 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:30.799 And when I was practicing

clinically, part of my consent forms, you know, I was bound by HIPAA. 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:45.200 So there's, you know, I don't, and I know you guys are have your own, you know, two, but you know, there's a little wiggle room that I had there, but explicitly would state like that this, that this is a relationship and that, you know, we are both in this together. 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.320 And I know that I did have the word like collaboration. 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.320 It is a collaborative process, right? 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:51.840 That's what therapy really is. 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.639 It's you and me giving input, right? 00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:00.000 And I think that that word, it just lands on clients. 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:06.639 It lands on people just in a way that says, like, oh, okay, from a power dynamic place, right? 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.320 Like we're partners in this, right? 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:13.360 It's not just you telling me what to do, and then I have to go and do it, right? 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.519 It is, oh, I get a say in this. 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.879 I can really help to craft what this plan is and have input. 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:26.879 So listen, you don't have to sell me on why the word collaboration is a great word to use. 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:35.600 I think that it's fantastic for all the reasons that you stated and just the psychological impact there, like the meaning, even if it's subconscious, right? 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:37.759 It just feels it feels better. 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:48.799 I'm curious, like when you started to make some of those changes, like to language, languaging, starting with the collaboration agreement, even then some of your meeting like names, like what did you notice? 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.120 Either like for yourself or with clients. 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.200 Yeah, I think it was both sides. 00:12:53.279 --> 00:13:01.919 Cause again, as soon as you change collaboration, right, and you pick something like that, it's also inserting some of your own beliefs into what that is, right? 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:08.399 So you speak more confidently to this is what I believe financial planning to be about. 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:10.399 This is what I think it is. 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:20.879 And it's amazing how just having your own connection to that word or that brand, as opposed to taking the industry phrases and go, what does this mean for me? 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:24.320 What do I want my branding of these things to be? 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:26.879 You get really good at articulating it. 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.799 It's no longer just a templated thing that the industry handed you. 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:34.240 It's your version of it based off of the kind of work that you do. 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.120 And then it starts to trickle into other things. 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.919 Like the collaboration agreement, I would say, you know, clients weren't super enthused. 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:54.320 Like, you know, I don't know if they necessarily notice a difference themselves, but definitely the type of people I attract with that kind of conversation because my belief on what it is is so deep. 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.720 They understand this is a two-way street and working environment. 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:01.279 And they're gonna have work to do. 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.840 And like, we're gonna have some tough conversations. 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:11.600 We're going to, as I often have to say to them too, like, we're gonna make you uncomfortable at certain times when we talk about certain subjects, right? 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:13.840 But that is part of the collaboration. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.039 It's not just let's talk about the numbers. 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.159 It's we're gonna work on conversations together. 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:30.080 And so once I started doing that, and I I realized how taking and getting away from the industry terminology and putting my own spin on it really actually helped me as much as it did the clients. 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:32.799 When I started looking at some of the other angles, right? 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:39.840 And going, okay, what else in these systems do I think have a name that doesn't work? 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:49.679 The next one, and this is this is probably the biggest change where there is a much deeper result that comes from this from the client perspective, but the discovery meeting. 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.320 That was the one that I targeted next. 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:54.639 Okay, tell me a little bit about why that is. 00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:00.000 So coming into crossing over into the dark side of financial services, right? 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:02.080 I've heard like discovery meeting. 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:06.960 It has always been a bit of an enigma to me, though, because I'm like, what does it even mean? 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.720 So why, why was this for you like kind of that next one? 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:12.720 Yeah, well, because it's one of those things. 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:13.840 I think discovery is a term. 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:19.679 It's like, okay, we're gonna go into a meeting and we're gonna discover as much as we can about the clients, right? 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.519 And we're gonna go dig, we're right. 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.039 We collect all the paperwork document, maybe you do it a bit before, a bit after. 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.519 But the idea is through that discovery process is to discover them. 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:30.000 Yeah. 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:40.159 The problem is, at least for me, because I work mostly with retirees, that telling them, okay, or at least having them think that they're coming in to be discovered, right? 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:41.360 Okay, right. 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.519 It's just feels awkward as soon as you say that.

00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:47.039 It's like, okay, you're gonna come into this meeting and you know. 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.039 You just got really uncomfortable. 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:50.240 I got really uncomfortable. 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:50.639 Yes. 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:50.799 Okay. 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:52.240 It's not like horrible, right? 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:58.159 But as a client, that's what you're sitting there doing on the other side of this, is going, oh, what are we doing in this meeting, right? 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:11.519 And so at least for me, the the issue I've always had with retirees and helping them spend money and doing all the things that I've done for decades, in a lot of cases, is just getting the retirees to actually dream a little bigger. 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:16.559 Quite often they undercut what they're capable of doing and affording. 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.200 And so what happens is they leave stuff off the table. 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:29.679 So I used to get it a lot in the past, and this is what this is where I really notice it is I would go through the whole process, deliver a plan, tell them they have more money than they ever realized they had. 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:34.159 And then they'd sit there and go, Oh, well, had I known that, I would have told you this. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:35.600 And do you think we can add this? 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:46.480 And it's like they'd start modifying and you'd watch the dreams grow after the planning process was done because they finally knew how much money they had, or they would make tweaks and just things like that, right? 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:59.840 So part of this was actually going, okay, how do I get more of that to come out in what I realized is they just have a hard time dreaming big enough. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.799 So I rebranded the discovery meeting as a blue sky session, right? 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:08.000 So this is what my clients know it as. 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:17.680 And it really is it's like, okay, so now just by changing the wording, their purpose and when we say, okay, when because people are, what kind of what do I need to prep to go into this meeting? 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:18.000 Right. 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:35.200 It's like, I don't want you to prep anything, but we're gonna go through a very long conversation and just get you dreaming a little bit bigger, get you talking about what things might need to look like in retirement, what you might like to spend money on, but come to this meeting prepared to dream a little bit. 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:39.039 And that's that's actually all they need to know to come into that meeting prepared. 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:46.079 Now they know exactly what they're showing up to do and what I'm gonna take them through without needing to go too far. 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:54.720 And I quite often I say, like, if you want to sit and chat a little bit, the two of you, and talk about what you

think dreaming bigger might actually look like, please go right ahead. 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:57.440 But otherwise, this is what we're gonna do in that meeting. 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:06.319 And to sort of your question earlier about the collaboration agreement and like what effect does it have on clients when you make changes like this? 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:17.599 This was the meeting where I noticed it the most because what I get clients asking for now, they don't ask for a new financial plan, even though we redo them quite often. 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:22.079 When they'll come up and they'll say, Adam, can we do another one of those blue sky sessions? 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:23.519 Oh, I love that. 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:24.960 They want that, right? 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:37.359 And it's it's because they know what they're showing up for, they know they struggle with something, and they're going, this now branded right with the right process underneath, is now something they actually want. 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.880 That it's almost like they don't even want the financial plan that comes after. 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:42.079 They want that meeting. 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:43.759 They want the clarity, right? 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:51.920 Like I'm like what comes up for me hearing you talk about this blue sky meeting is you know, leaving like with clarity, right? 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.160 And good gosh, oh Molly. 00:18:54.240 --> 00:19:00.960 Like that clarity is one of those things that when you've got it, like you just know how good it feels, right? 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:06.079 Instead of like being in limbo or feeling lost or just living in uncertainty, right? 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:07.200 And and wondering. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.400 So I could see where more blue sky, right? 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.440 Hashtag more blue sky meetings, we would want. 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:26.240 But there's also a fascinating psychological thing that I've noticed over the years is that when clients, especially when they're existing clients and they know that you know their financial situation, the blue sky actually shifts a little bit. 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:32.319 Because usually when you're doing it with a new client, they don't know how much of like you haven't done the full financial plan yet. 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:45.440 But when you do it for clients that you've already had for a few years and you do a new blue sky session, one of the reasons why they like it so much is because a lot of people when they get dreaming and they start going, okay, well, can we do this? 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:46.240 Can we do this? 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:46.960 Right. 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:51.759 If there's no one to put that check of like, well, have you gone too big? 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.920 And a lot of them are afraid of going too big and then being disappointed that they can't do it. 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:09.920 So when you're sitting in the room

while they're dreaming and you're just letting them go, and you're not saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't afford that, if you're not doing that, then that's an automatic permission that they're okay to dream the thing that they're dreaming. 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:15.200 And they need that safe space for just someone there who knows their financial situation. 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:20.960 And it's like, it's kind of like, I mean, I don't love this analogy, but it's kind of like a two-year-old testing their boundaries, right? 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.279 Like, yeah, okay, can we go further? 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.319 Like, what about this? 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:25.519 Can we do this? 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.319 Can I do how much further can we push this? 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:35.680 And they're doing it because they still don't understand where the bounds of their own finances start and stop in retirement. 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:40.160 And so those blue sky sessions become really important for them. 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:52.880 And I can just sit there and let them even have conversations facilitated by me, but you can watch them push ideas back and forth because a lot of couples don't necessarily want to do all the same things together in retirement. 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.440 So it's even like, can we have separate dreams? 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.359 And those cost different kinds of money. 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.680 You know, doing those kind of things in a space where they can talk about it. 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:09.359 Because sometimes I think when those conversations happen behind the scenes, if they don't think they can afford them, it's easy for each other to shut it down. 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.359 Whereas if they do it in front of me. 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:17.440 Or defer, or even be like, no, no, you'll see some that have people pleasing tendencies, right? 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.039 That they're like, no, no, just we'll do what he wants. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:21.920 He wants this. 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.599 Don't worry about mine, right? 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.240 Because they don't think they can afford to do both. 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:26.799 Right. 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:27.359 Right. 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:43.599 So so sitting there with someone who knows their finances actually lets them dream bigger and more precisely and do so in a way that when they come up with it, they know they can afford it because the advisor hasn't objected to it, saying, ah, that that that's actually out of your price range. 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:49.440 I like this point here around kind of doing it with them and as the advisor, like being in the room there. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:59.759 And as someone who has had the privilege of sitting in on client meetings, listening to you know, their advisor say, Hey, that dream. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.119 That thing that you wanted, like it actually, we can actually do it. 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:03.599 Yeah. 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:04.559 It's possible. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:13.759 And just watching the client like experience that and to take it in and soak it in and process it even like um a little bit. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:24.079 I mean, I used to think that in therapy, when I was doing couples therapy, and we would work through a particular intervention and it would go well. 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:28.640 Well, in the sense of like there would be some kind of connection there. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:30.720 I used to think like that was such a great feeling. 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:32.559 And it was, I won't dismiss that. 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:38.400 And watching clients experience this, like, oh, my dream, this thing that I want, it can come true. 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.160 Like I'll still be fine. 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.720 It provides a very similar experience for me. 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.759 Like there's a lot of just satisfaction. 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:51.119 It gives me a tremendous amount of joy, uh, but also like fire, like that. 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:52.720 This is the kind of work, right? 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.240 And this is the reason, right? 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.839 Why we're doing financial planning is to help clients in these, like experience more of these moments, right? 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:02.640 To be able, it's like that Ty Pennington show. 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:17.440 Do you remember like the dream house where they would like renovate the house and then the family would like come back and see like their house has been like renovated and they would like open their eyes and like say and then be like, oh my gosh, right? 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:31.839 Maybe not quite the same like emotional experience, but it reminds me a little bit of just that, like watching someone, you know, who very much has worked hard and has you know, unrealized like dream, like being able to say, Yes, like this can happen. 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:33.200 This can happen for you. 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:34.559 How is it okay? 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:36.319 Talk about for you a little bit. 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.119 I'm hearing how blue skies like kind of changed like clients and how it's helpful. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.680 What's it done for you, though, as as a planner? 00:23:44.079 --> 00:24:04.640 Well, as soon as you start to do that and you realize, like, as you just described, how good it feels to have people dream a little bit bigger in front of you, like that now meant that as soon as you rebrand to a blue sky session and the goal is to get retirees dreaming more, then your next questions are like, okay, well, how do I do that better? 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.119 Right. 00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.640 Like that now becomes the objective of the meeting. 00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:13.440 And now it doesn't even feel like a discovery meeting, so to speak, right? 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:19.519

But you have a different angle of asking questions and just how you roll through that meeting. 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:32.160 And the funny thing is, and you know, I know a lot of people won't do this this uh length, but pretty much these meetings for me are bare minimum two and a half hours, though I did have one go as long as six hours. 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.240 So they typically sit between two and a half and three and a half. 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:38.640 But it's it's my approach in that meeting. 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:40.319 It's not just straight goal setting. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:41.519 We're going further back. 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:41.839 Okay. 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:50.640 We're doing a lot of stuff because my planning process in general goes into a lot of detail and we actually like handwrite our plans kind of thing. 00:24:50.799 --> 00:25:09.359 So there's a lot more we do in this blue sky session, but the main thing is to set a target that they perhaps haven't actually set before so that we can then also do and figure out what the price tag needs to be so that we can actually do the math part. 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.000 Got it. 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:10.880 That makes sense. 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:11.359 Yeah. 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:23.920 So for me, like I find these meetings to be some of the most rewarding meetings out of the whole career, I would actually even say, because you really get to learn a lot about people and the people you're working with. 00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:31.200 But there's also something fun about getting to know someone really well in a very short period of time that you didn't know before. 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:46.640 So the reason for the length on this, too, is it's amazing how much you can get to know someone and their relationship with money, their relationship with their family, their relationship with work and retirement and everything in a two and a half hour span. 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:51.039 And then you do actually come out of that meeting going, okay, I think I know these people. 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.519 I haven't met someone exactly like this before. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:26:01.359 Because the funny thing is, I I used to believe when I started doing this, working with retirees and only retirees, because that's pretty much all I've done for 20 years. 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:07.039 I thought, okay, eventually you'll start seeing the same kind of things over and over and over again. 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:13.440 And you can systematize and get better and just just make things shorter and easier. 00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:20.000 And then every time I do one of these meetings, it's like, well, they're kind of similar, but they're also very different. 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:23.200 And even different over generations, too. 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:35.599 Like I've done these meetings now for retirees who were part of the greatest generation, silent generation, baby boomers, and now the Gen Xers

who I have retiring. 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:44.799 And it's it's just interesting to see how even these blue sky sessions are different between the generations because of the questions that we ask, because of what we do. 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.799 And I just find that kind of stuff fascinating. 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:47.519 Oh, yeah. 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:56.480 We might have to nerd out on some of those differences at some point uh here next time we chat, because I would be very curious to know just what those are. 00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:58.160 Can I give you one fun one? 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.480 Because I think I find this one fascinating. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.480 So I love, because this is part of the goal setting thing, and there's probably a whole conversation here too. 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:20.640 But one of the things I have the hardest issue with, and this is where, again, trying to get people dreaming, I had to tinker a lot with the questions, the order, how you do it, that you can't just come in and ask the dream question out front. 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:26.319 It's kind of like handing someone a blank page and saying, okay, write an essay. 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.680 It's so much easier when there's stuff on the page already. 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:33.200 So what I tend to do in this meeting is we look backwards first. 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:41.359 So we go back and have a conversation of how everything's happened and how they got to here before we look forward. 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:47.119 So one of the first questions I ask, especially with couples, and I love going in and it's like, because they don't know it's coming. 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.160 It's like, okay, tell me about your first date. 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:50.960 Yes. 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:51.599 Right? 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:59.279 And I look straight at the guy, and it's surprising because a lot of the wives most of the time think that they're not going to remember the first date. 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:08.240 But the men pretty much always, they may not remember the date, like the actual day or anniversaries, but they remember the first date. 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:12.319 The deed in the details, like a lot of the contextual details. 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.359 I am a sucker for a meat cue story. 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.759 That is like I want, I want to know. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:19.039 And I think that you're right. 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:24.240 Like the details there most do most do remember. 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:30.720 So the baby boomers, first dates, pretty much every single one that I have, movies. 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.279 They went to the movies and they remember the movie. 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:38.799 They remember maybe going for ice cream afterwards or going to some sort of uh Did they share a pop? 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:40.160 Did they share a pop? 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:40.960 Yep. 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.119 But they remember the movie that they went to for their first date. 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.160 I love that. 00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:48.319 Whereas like newer generations, right? 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:49.440 Like that's not a thing. 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.240 Like that's not really a first date thing anymore, right? 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:52.799 No. 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.680 But that is that's where a lot of the baby boomers met each other. 00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:57.839 Yeah. 00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:01.680 If they're still that, you know, high school sweetheart or college or whatever. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:02.319 Yeah. 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.119 My grandparents was uh coke in a moon pie. 00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:06.079 They shared. 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:12.000 Part of me is like, oh gosh, that is like you did well. 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:17.200 But I think it's it's sweet. 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:19.279 Oh, life out on the farm, you know. 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:26.400 Let's just drink a bunch of sugar for our first date and eat like marshmallow like just process. 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.680 Oh yeah. 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:29.440 Uh, but yeah, it's okay. 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:30.799 Um, no judgment. 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.759 No judgment. 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:32.079 Yeah. 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:42.559 Okay, Adam, you've talked about language and how powerful language is and what we're in terms of a planning like process and how we talk about things, how we even like describe meetings. 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:44.960 We got into your blue sky meeting here. 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:57.200 I would love to know a little bit, maybe more or further, I guess, about what else, like kind of would you change about the traditional financial planning process? 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:08.480 If the goal wasn't really just to create a good plan, but it really was truly designed to help the client behave differently with money or just feel differently about money. 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:17.680 Yeah, I think that comes into probably I think the most underexplored and underexamined area is actual what's the final delivery? 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.200 What's the final thing you're giving them? 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:25.039 Because we have that one-page financial plan that Carl Richards kind of wrote a book on and is quite popular. 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:30.720 You've got the hundred-page projection or plan that's kind of existed for a very long time. 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:35.279 I find both of them to be a little bit less than perfect. 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:42.000 I think the one page was a big improvement because it offers some clarity, but I still really struggle to call it a plan. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.240 To me, it's far closer to a dashboard. 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.440 Like it's like an executive summary of the hundred-page version. 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:47.920 Yeah. 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:56.640 So some of the areas I think that financial

planning has yet to really well define is like, what is a plan that actually works? 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.240 And I'm still in the process, I think, of really nailing this down. 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:05.759 But for us, what we do, it's more of a 20-page sort of handwritten plan. 00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:10.319 Like it's not a projection, it's taking the conversation. 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.880 So all the stuff we pulled out of the blue sky session, what do we know about them, right? 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.359 Not just their goals, but what are their beliefs that may or may not be holding them back? 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:27.279 That it could be something as simple, they still believe in active management and timing the markets. 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:37.920 Okay, I have to, in a plan then, write something, a convincing argument that says, okay, this is why you might want to change this, right? 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.519 I can't just put a projection down. 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:43.200 I can't put things that are just graphs and numbers. 00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.079 I have to explain with an actual argument. 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:51.039 I have to help them change that belief into something different. 00:31:51.359 --> 00:32:07.200 And I think that is actually where the largest struggle in getting clients to execute a plan actually sits, is being able to identify those things in the planning process and then picking them out before you write the plan. 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:14.319 So you go, okay, these are the higher order beliefs I need to change in order to move someone from here over to here. 00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:20.400 And there's lots of different examples that you can run through, both technical and behavioral, right? 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.079 Just even the question of enough. 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.519 Okay, let's let's talk it through because there are different angles of enough. 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:33.119 And quite often the question is coming from a lot of different places in their history, right? 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:40.319 So, how do you then create something in a plan that changes a behavioral belief? 00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.480 Like the technical ones are almost easier. 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:51.599 That's where you see a lot of the YouTube content on, you know, I'm Canadian, so we have different things, but like, you know, 401ks are horrible or whatever that sort of, okay, great. 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:58.000 If someone comes in with that kind of language and belief, you as the planner then have to reshape that. 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:10.400 But let's say someone comes in with a scarcity mindset, you still have to use some kind of argumentation to shift that belief and help them pull that out. 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:14.799 And that's actually, I find that to be more difficult using numbers. 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:25.039 So you have to use their story, their background, their things, and help them work through an argument that says, okay, maybe this isn't serving me well anymore. 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.839 It served me to this point, but not now. 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:29.599 Do I understand why? 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:31.759 Do I understand where it's coming from? 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:42.799 Which almost digs a lot deeper into sort of the therapy kind of and counseling approaches of reshaping something that isn't a number or a technical belief. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:47.920 It's a behavioral or human belief that needs to adapt. 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.640 And this is the way that I I guess try to talk it through when we do the recommendations and stuff. 00:33:52.880 --> 00:34:01.759 It's I I think some of these things are actually so ingrained in people by the time they hit us, especially on the spending and saving thing, that it's actually really difficult to actually change it. 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.960 But we don't actually have to ignore it or try to change it. 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:17.199 We just have to acknowledge it's there, the kind of ways that it's holding them back, so that we can say, okay, that means in these instances, when you go to do these couple of things, you're gonna feel this sucker tug. 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:22.480 Let's just make sure we're aware of it when it's happening and figure out a way to do it anyways. 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:22.960 Yeah. 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:36.000 And so I think like when you're looking at sort of the process of financial planning, I still think there's actually a lot of room and wiggle room to explore what the actual plan is and what it should be doing. 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:36.559 Yeah. 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:45.119 That would be the area that I still want to see a much better version and better definition of like, I don't want a projection, I don't want graphs. 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:51.760 And especially for me working with retirees, there's actually a lot of data because one of the issues I have to deal with is capacity decline. 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:52.239 Sure. 00:34:52.400 --> 00:35:00.400 So that's the other issue I have to deal with with presenting information, is it has to be convincing, but it also has to be incredibly simple. 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:07.360 Because I think, and people don't love to hear this data, but typically around the age of 50 is when you start to enter some form of cognitive decline. 00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.199 Please don't say that ever again to me. 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:19.599 But once you know that, okay, anyone who's working with retirees, like you have to realize they are in a state of cognitive decline from the moment they show up. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:21.119 And they can still be really with it. 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:26.159 It doesn't mean they're they're having issues the moment you see them, but they are slowing down. 00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:41.119 So I find even in the financial planning process, it's looking at your client base

and the way that you rebrand and reassess these things is to actually look at your client and say, what are the things that my particular client group is struggling with? 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:46.480 If your clients don't struggle to dream bigger, then I wouldn't label it a blue sky session. 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:54.639 I think you shared an example actually in our pre-call that uh Jake does, where he has meetings just to help people get stuff done. 00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:02.480 Yes, we can't say that word because I'm not putting the E explicit, but yes, it is the get bleep done meeting. 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:03.280 Yes. 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:08.480 Because he's identified a problem with his client base, that that's one of the things they struggle with. 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:13.840 So he's made specific meetings to do the thing that they struggle to do the most. 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:32.880 And I think that's the really cool thing about doing this from a behavioral perspective with your own firm and your own clients is identifying those things that are difficult and then working through the whole process to go, how do we rebrand and restructure everything to help them with that behavioral element that they're really struggling with? 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:39.679 And then that's, I think, where it even starts to work into that financial plan of how do we develop that better? 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:46.239 How do we rework that to make that work better for our clients who struggle with these processes? 00:36:46.480 --> 00:37:00.159 So that would be the area that I would be encouraging a lot of people, because I I think after this kind of a conversation, there's probably a lot of quick ones that people can pick off and rebrand and rework some of the language they use around some of these meetings. 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:09.199 But then the financial planning part is like the actual plan itself, is one of the areas that I think is the toughest and best one to put a lot of effort in. 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.519 And that would be where I would I would hope people would target once they do a few of these things. 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:19.280 Maybe they could collaborate with other like-minded professionals there. 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:27.039 Well, as we are kind of wrapping things up here, you've given a lot of fantastic suggestions here. 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:41.599 But if if someone is listening and they're like, hey, this Adam guy is really cool, and I would actually like to start to think about my process a little bit more thoughtfully, what are maybe one or two tips that you would give to somebody who's looking at redesigning their own financial planning process? 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.239 Yep. 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:50.239 First thing I would do is sit with your clients or just sit with the kind of clients that you're trying to replicate and the ones that you typically solve problems for. 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:58.960 And I find people

can actually do this pretty quickly and just go, okay, like when we have meetings, what's the thing they struggle with before or after the meeting? 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:04.960 And then go, okay, then we need some kind of a meeting in our planning process that helps them do that thing. 00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:09.840 It can be the busy people who don't have time to get stuff done. 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:13.519 But then I remember I used to work a little bit in the family market. 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:19.920 And it's like sometimes they just even didn't sit to take like family time to talk about the future of the family. 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.280 And there were a few times like we would do it with the kids, right? 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:32.239 And it's like, because what it did, it's just like having a couple sit there and go, okay, let's have structured family time and just talk about things that are important to you. 00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:33.039 And it's amazing. 00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:36.079 Like when you get kids involved in those kind of conversations. 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:43.440 Now, I also do other elements that include things like giving conversations, right? 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:45.920 Because that's a thing that I have to do. 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:52.719 But I would look for those kind of problem sets of like, okay, what are the things that that our clients really struggle with? 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:57.039 And can we create a space for them to do that thing? 00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:02.159 And then just sit and think about a way you could rebrand it or work with the language on it. 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:08.400 So I would I would identify the client issues that they struggle with, execution, dreaming, whatever that is. 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:20.880 And then just look at your financial planning process and just start to go, okay, what are some better words we can use that describe what these things actually are, but not for us, the financial planner, for them, the client. 00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:21.280 Right. 00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:31.840 And if you can use language that is meant for them, not for us, you'll find it really starts to shape a completely different planning process for both sides. 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:38.159 Because you can get more articulate if that's actually the word that we need to use, what does that mean we have to do in the meeting? 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:47.440 Those would be the two things I would look at is framing and rebranding that process in a way that it's language that's meant for them. 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:48.480 I love that. 00:39:48.880 --> 00:40:01.119 And I think that's the end result people are looking at when you're doing this, because that is what actually has the ripple effect to the questions and the process and everything else you would develop underneath it, all starts with that, right? 00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:07.199 What do we need them doing when they come into these sessions or whatever step of the plan it is? 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.159 Let's use language that is meant for them. 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:11.199 Fantastic. 00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:11.840 Awesome. 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:12.719 All right, Adam. 00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:21.119 If people want more Adam Chapman in their life, yes, if they want more Adam Chapman in their life, please share it with us. 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:22.719 Uh, where can they connect with you? 00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:26.079 Yeah, LinkedIn's probably the best spot to connect. 00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:29.119 I don't have a whole lot of other places I publish and do. 00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:34.000 Well, I mean, there'll be a book coming out next year, but that's on a totally different topic and everything like that. 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.000 But LinkedIn's the place to follow me. 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:36.719 Perfect. 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:39.039 We'll make sure that we include that in the show notes. 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:44.239 And we will send an open invitation for when the book does release to come back and share with everyone. 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:45.280 That'll be a fun one. 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.679 About it, I would love that. 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:53.280 Well, thank you to all of you for allowing Adam and I into your ears and into your mind today. 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:57.599 It's a part of your week that you don't have to give us, but you're choosing to. 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:02.559 And for that, I think I speak for Adam and myself and saying we're both incredibly grateful. 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.559 If this conversation resonated with you, I would also love to keep the conversation going. 00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:14.639 You can find me on LinkedIn at Ashley Kwame, where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning. 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.880 You can also find me on YouTube. 00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:21.920 I don't think I've talked a lot about that on here, but we are getting into YouTube, my friends. 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.719 And so you can get out and follow us on YouTube at Beyond the Plan Solutions. 00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.360 You can check us out there where Meg and I record. 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:34.800 I think they're cool videos, you can tell me, but nonetheless, we hope that they're at least helpful if they're not cool. 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:38.480 You can also head over to our website and sign up for our monthly newsletter. 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:44.559 And soon to be coming out in 2027 will be the practice. 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:51.199 Now, if you want to know more about the practice, you're gonna have to shoot me an email for right now to get on our waiting list to learn more. 00:41:51.280 --> 00:42:04.000 But what I will tell you is that the practice is a 12-month training program that Meg and I have been working on that is centered on helping advisors develop the relational skills needed. 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.800 A lot of what Adam was talking about here today are things that we bring into this. 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:12.880 And so this is a 12-month training that you are not gonna want to miss. 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.400 So shoot me an email if it's something that you're interested in finding out more about. 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:21.920 You'll be seeing that come out on all of the socials, all of the things here later in the year. 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:30.719 If you would like to follow the show, please check us out wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, all the things will be there. 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.960 Go ahead and hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode like this one. 00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:39.760 And as always, my friends, remember finances don't have feelings, but your clients do. 00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:44.639 Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond. 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:51.039 Thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:56.960 I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth. 00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:02.639 If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:08.079 Your feedback helps us reach more advisors like you who are dedicated to making a difference. 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:16.239 For more resources, tips, and to continue the conversation, visit our website at beyondthefp.com. 00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:23.280 You'll find articles, tools, and information about upcoming episodes designed to support your journey and practice. 00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:26.800 Stay connected with us on social media and never miss an update. 00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.280 Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn. 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:33.679 And remember, the best way to grow is to keep learning and sharing. 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:39.679 Until next time, keep planning, keep growing, and keep going beyond.