Fuld transskription af Overthinking RHOSLC: Mary and Angie’s Breaking Point

Angie would be telling Mary about that, and that's because they have this like deep friendship. And so without Mary knowing, she's feeling excluded in something. Like she's she's seeing the disconnect, but not understanding why there's a disconnect. And so her only read on it is like something's wrong with our friendship. Ian (07:27) Or that Andy's changed in some way that is unexplained, right? That she's not the same Tori (07:29) Right, right. And sh Ian (07:31) person she was. Tori (07:33) Yeah, and see that's the thing for Mary is that she really starts to kind of like jump in connecting her dots. Like she goes pretty far and I've gotta say like this is kind of Mary's personality is if she starts to get rubbed wrong. Like I do think it's just her defense of like it's easy for her to just okay Cut out, done, even with the friendship where she's saying like Angie is like a sister. And so I do think knowing what happens in episode nine, right? That she takes a break and she's ready to hear her because of that, like that's that's maybe gonna be the full circle moment. But um as soon as she starts to feel like there's a disconnect, she's like, I'm separating. Like, don't talk to me. I don't wanna hear it. Like she she is pretty harsh when she thinks that there's a disconnect. And Some of that I do think is she has her own grief that she's dealing with. But I do think that it's more about her feeling like something's wrong with with them. Ian (08:32) Well and it's interesting, you know, when you go back, I think it might have been episode four or five where they have the dinner and Mary specifically asks Angie, like, what's going on. She doesn't say anything. So I think there's, you know, a part of this other layer that's like you know, Angie's had the opportunity. Like, they've had a bunch of one on one times, and so I Tori (08:48) Right. Right. Ian (08:50) can understand where but you're right, like she is connecting those dots and I think that's, you know, our brain in general, right? Our brain, there's this great exercise if you take you, you have somebody take two things in in the room in front of them and you ask them, How is one related to the other? Usually like a parent child relationship. And our brain will be able to connect a pillow and a water bottle. The pillow's larger, so therefore it's the adult. Does that actually make it true? No, Tori (09:15) Right. Ian (09:15) but it makes sense, and all of our brain does is want the world to make sense. So Tori (09:20) Yeah. Ian (09:20) when that happens, unless we get evidence that's clear and fits, we don't waver off of our um off of our opinions often. And then, you know, some people are very good, and it sounds like maybe this is where Mary's growth is. Is some people are very good about like, okay, I've made the connection, I don't know the full story, let me not take any action on it. But then there are people who immediately connections are Tori (09:43) Yeah. Ian (09:44) made, the connections are solidified, action comes next. Tori (09:47) Yes, Mary is like that. Um and so yeah, it is like what you're describing is just like the context of trying to put puzzle pieces in together where maybe they don't fit, but yeah, our brain wants to make things fit and make sense. And so with the information that Mary's trying to operate under, she's fitting in that Angie has changed, like her whole personality is different versus any any other Alternative. Ian (10:16) yes, you're exactly right. And if you look at it from Mary's perspective too, like if we empathize with her from that standpoint, it's like, could you imagine losing your child and then going back and on the outside your best friend has changed completely and you don't know why. Tori (10:31) Right. Ian (10:31) Like of course that's jarring and doesn't make sense, right? 'Cause it's even interesting, you know, when we talk about this idea of protecting Mary, like it goes I think it's episode three again, three or four Where Angie's like super awkwardly over-serving wine Tori (10:46) Yeah. Ian (10:47) and tea. But you can see how much it seems like. There's a perception that Angie is compensating to protect Mary's emotions. And so it's just this slow Tori (10:56) Yeah. Ian (10:57) build. Cause it was it not that it wasn't genuine, it wasn't natural. You could tell that she was going overboard to try and create an image that maybe wasn't there. Tori (11:09) Yeah. Ian (11:09) And so I think that's just solidified in all of this, is that the person that I see and the predictability in in the way that you show up, your personality, your relationship is different and it's different in every way and capacity. And so what else am I left to believe? Tori (11:23) Right, because Angie is so awkward with her trying to protect Mary, it comes off to Mary as being inauthentic. And it's a really good point. Ian (11:31) Which people pick up on. Tori (11:33) Yeah. And it's a really good point that you mentioned too is that sometimes the connection through the struggle, like that is what could be more powerful for them, of just hearing like number one, that she's inviting her into the struggle, and then like to support each other through it. But again, it's just it's a really, really sad read. And this is all before the lunch. Like all of these examples that we're using are all before we get to this lunch, where then they do start snapping at each other. And then the big moment is Mary snaps at Angie and says, You're focused on yourself. You know, like again, she's using like your the selfish language, like You're getting facials. You're you're only worried about yourself. Where's your husband? Where's your child? And Angie's already been kind of like spiraling for a second. And she goes, What about She is standing, she's screen Ian (12:26) There's like standing up screaming at Braunway in the cont like Tori (12:29) screaming. it's not like this was her

first snappy comment. Ian (12:32) Right. Or came out of nowhere. Tori (12:34) and throughout the lunch, you can tell she's trying to bite her tongue, trying to bite her tongue, and Angie is not good at biting her tongue, period. So the restraint she has showed up until the point and then she just reverts back into what about your husband? What about your child? Everyone's mouths drop. it was just such a hard, hard watch. Yeah, yeah, let's hear it. Ian (12:55) So I will get it. So uh I I have some opinions, you and I have talked off off air on the podcast a lot about what's the difference between messy and too messy and entertainment and not. To me, that crossed the line. Like I I have been a stan for the producers. I feel like they should have cut that. Like so, and I'll get into why. Tori (13:16) Yeah. Ian (13:17) So, first of all, I I don't share much personal here, but will share this. Like, if somebody who growing up would get very angry and would get in situations in which I would spiral or self-sabotage, I was like, shit, like I can see myself in that where it's like I cannot stop myself. and so that was bothersome just from a personal standpoint watching, but then it was like When we look at, you know, people's ability to regulate emotionally, one of the most common ways that we can view it is is a window of tolerance, right? What what level of emotion can we tolerate while maintaining control? And what you see is somebody who gets to the window of tolerance, essentially if you have just a square, right? You have a square and above on the outside of the top square, you have something called hyper-emotional arousal or stimulation, and the bottom you have hypo, which is very low. it's so stimulated that it feels, you know, people will shut down, stop talking. Hyper is panic attacks, what happened to Angie? And then somewhere in the middle you have enough emotion that you're trying to work through something, you're gonna change, you're expressive, but you're in control. And what we see is that and I could feel as soon as Angie went above that window and went into the hyper area, that's why she's repeating herself where it's nonsensical. It makes no sense. That's You can literally see everybody else forget all of their own personal negative connections and go to and that's because you see somebody who's so dysregulated that this seeing red you made a great point with that, it's interesting because when you look at the situation from a physical standpoint, Angie is not threatened. Right? Nobody's Tori (14:58) Mm-hmm. Ian (14:59) gonna hit stand up and swing on her, nobody's gonna do anything to physically hurt her. Yet she is fighting for her life. Emotionally, socially, and psychologically. And Tori (15:08) Mm-hmm. Ian (15:09) it's fascinating. That's why people, when when people get to this standpoint, you cannot think logically. You cannot reason. and it's so interesting when you look at how they got her to calm down, it was only through physical touch. The words were missing. They had to hug Tori (15:24) Yeah. Yeah. Ian (15:26) her, they had to physically move her. And it's a way of re-regulating. But to me, it was like that was the only time so far I was like, producers went too far. and that's part of my own personal stuff. But it was I was like angry it was so uncomfortable. You know, it's Tori (15:40) Yeah. Ian (15:41) one of those things where it's like if somebody's you know, you and I have talked about this, right? These women are aware, they they crack Y's, they make jokes about why they're doing stuff or you know, the they know that's the game that they're playing, it's the positioning that they're Doing they know the rules, Angie clearly is not in control aware or knowledgeable of anything she's saying. Tori (16:00) Yes, yes. okay, the producers probably had to keep it in because it makes up so much more of the storyline for the rest of the season. But someone like I could I could almost say that to Heather. Like, Heather could have stepped in, because Heather does know what Angie's going through. At that point, she's like actually the only one that knows who and Ian (16:20) Yeah. Tori (16:20) I'm not gonna like sit here and blame or say like that moment is her fault. I guess maybe the delicate line is like not knowing how far Angie could be pushed. Because the other thing too is, you know, if you notice in that fight, they are fighting about friendship up until the point that Mary says husband and child. Ian (16:39) Mm-hmm. Tori (16:39) And then Angie's Angie's gone. So I don't even know if Heather could have stepped in because who knew that the the blow given to Angie was was coming Then she started to become so defensive because only Angie knows what she's being defensive of. Mary doesn't know that that was such a hard hit to Angie. That Mary said, where's your husband? Where's your child? Because she thinks Angie's just being selfish in her life by going to get a facial or whatever. Angie starts yelling about doing the laundry, doing the dishes. you know, self like all of these things that in Angie's offline brain like that's kind of how that's Ian (17:22) That's a great way of putting it, yeah. Tori (17:24) kind of how I describe like these emotional seeing bread is that the brain is totally offline. It's not being logical, it's not being coherent. It is pulling at random, trying to start connecting things. And that's why Angie doesn't even understand what she said because it's just da da da da da da da da not Pointed at Mary as an insult. That was like such a direct defensive response. She would have said that to anybody who said anything about her husband and child. It would just happen to be the worst person to have that reaction to. to Angie. Like she hadn't obviously she had no idea that that was gonna send her off the rails. but it is hard because again, for these women, you don't know where that line is for them. But

Angie should have been removed, like, yeah, in in non-television or in hindsight, Ian (18:23) Well it Tori (18:24) Angie should have been removed when she starts standing up. But Angie stands up at dinners a lot. she does that all the time. So it's like also you never know. Ian (18:30) Well it it's fascinating. if we go back to the trolley in San Francisco, I don't know that anybody was standing, but like Quai's like screaming at Brahmin like F you, F this, like how is it and it's so interesting that the only really way that this is different is that Angie you can see that window break right when that stuff comes out about Mary and she's borderlining on it before, right? You can see like not Tori (18:56) Yeah. Ian (18:56) wanting to cry. Borderlining Tori (18:57) Yes. Ian (18:58) on it, but as soon as you can literally see it in her eyes that like it's slowly starting to creep in of what she said. And then once that comes in, like she is just it is self preservation mode, right? Tori (19:12) Mm-hmm. Ian (19:13) And self preservation often doesn't make sense in situations in which we are not physically threatened, right? Because there really isn't anything to preserve from a physical standpoint. She's not going to die. She may feel Tori (19:23) Mm-hmm. Ian (19:24) like she wants to die in that situation. But she's not going to, and so th the actions don't make sense. And like I understand that it's TV and I understand there's context. And I understand that it creates this, you know, if if the two of them can reconcile this friendship and come back for this, like it creates a great story, and yet you're watching a person. One of the mo my most uncomfortable experiences, whether in this is in any sort of entertainment. You know, when you see celebrities who clearly are not, you know, in the right headspace at some point, for me it's like and I think that's why, you know, I like I boy, I almost said it. I am more liking the idea of reality TV is because I'm recognized I know, I know, I'm recognizing Tori (20:03) Ha ha ha. Ian (20:05) they're more in control of the behaviors than I maybe recognize. But this was a clear example where there was there was no control here. And it's Tori (20:08) Yeah. This huh. Yeah. Ian (20:13) so interesting because it's juxtaposed between Okay, so at the end, right, when everybody's consoling Angie and Mary, everyone is controlled. More so than ever Tori (20:22) Mm-hmm. Ian (20:23) before. They set their stuff down like And and before that, if we remember, this is somewhat of a I think it was right before that, when Whitney actually apologizes without a caveat to Lisa, and Lisa goes, Well, this is a step. So you have you have the most dysregulated moment in the entire season so far, sandwiched in between two of the most regulated moments. It's quite fascinating. Tori (20:45) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was an interesting moment for Whitney and Lisa. Yeah, because normally those kinds of things don't go that way. But there was such Ian (20:54) Mm-mm. Tori (20:55) an acceptance of apology that did come at that lunch and like you know, all the things we've been talking about all season, the acknowledgement, the acceptance, the like taking the moment, like being present. That does happen with Whitney and Lisa, literally right before. I do want to point out this other thing that I was thinking, and we don't have to spend a lot of time on this because I want to go into episode nine and and the follow-up from this fight. But my own personal reaction, or I I think it's worth noting as a housewife fan. The understanding that I can give Angie for this moment, because okay, again. All of the disclaimers, all the caveats. I do know that Angie and Mary are friends. You can see how unregulated Angie is. You know all of the backstory. Like, I'm more of a fan of Angie versus yeah, like two episodes ago, Britney had a had a throwaway comment to Mary, and it's like, nope. She's done. She wasn't invited to any of these events, by the way. It's worth noting. She Ian (22:03) I was wondering if Tori (22:05) is not in the mid season trailer hardly at all. Like she gets cut out for her comment. Ian (22:10) She was put in the penalty box. Yeah. Tori (22:12) the thing I'm gonna say too, uh to defend my own position as a fan, is Britney is not friends with Mary ever. Like they're not friends at all. And Brittany hers just came off as like mean. and dismissive. So I I'll just say that. I I'm just yeah. Ian (22:29) Wait, you make her well, no, it's a great point. Cause there's so when we look at people, right, you can look at behaviors sort of two camps, and one like a a syntonic, which is something that aligns with your character and your pattern of behavior, and dystonic is something that doesn't align. And I think what's so fascinating is what you're describing is that Brittany just like doing stuff for stuff's sake. Is syntonic, which is what turns people off of her. Yet Tori (22:52) Right. Ian (22:53) when Angie has this happen, from the first episode where she's over at Mary's house, she's clearly talking to Mary on the phone, she's talking to her through the San Francisco trip. Like, this is a dystonic behavior. This is not something Tori (23:05) Right. Ian (23:06) that aligns with what we've seen or how we've experienced her. And I do think it's hilarious that Britney is essentially in the real housewives timeout, and that is just I I I think that is so funny, not personally towards her, but just in the context of like Tori (23:21) Well, you know, she's gotta be reeling. Ian (23:22) we've talked about this in in sort of the analogy of sports, and like to me this is the equivalent of like a benching. so and that also helps me understand why these why there are behaviors or actions that are, because if you're showing up to film and you're like, okay, either I get cut out cause I'm boring or I get cut out cause I'm too much, where's the

middle ground? Tori (23:44) Well, the interesting thing, if we are gonna compare Britney and Angie and compare the women's reactions to them, I think y what you just said too is really important of what's more in line with their character because Brittany makes a comment and they're like, bye. But Angie does this again because it's so not ev even if they're fighting with Angie, they know that that's not how she felt, what she meant. And so actually they're gonna pause all of their stuff to bring her back into the fold and to help her make up with Mary. Like, obviously no one's doing that for Britney because again, Mary doesn't even like Britney uh from day one. Like it doesn't matter. There's nothing to repair there. now again, let's get into episode nine because they are saying we know that that is not what you meant, how you meant it, we understand that everyone uses the word seeing red Like that's used throughout. even women that don't know that she's struggling in her marriage or like something is wrong with Angie, that is not to excuse it. Like there is a moment where Heather's like, you really messed up. Like this was this was really bad. So it's not like it's like, Mary, just forgive her. Like no one's pushing any of that. Everyone's giving Mary the space. So in terms of controlling behavior, everyone's being really quite mature about this, I've gotta say. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Ian (25:02) It's just the most dialectical thing I've ever seen in reality TV is like two things can be true. You can still have a friendship and you can still have messed up in what seems like an irreparable way. And I'm Tori (25:14) Right. Ian (25:14) not used to that from this group of ladies as we should, Tori (25:17) Right. Ian (25:18) you know. Tori (25:18) we'll get into episode nine. all of the conversations come back to checking in on Angie and Mary. this episode, Mary and Angie aren't together at all. there's two different groups kind of going. It's the caviar lounge and it's the birthday party. Um one thing I wanna mention. I do think Lisa is quite sneaky in this whole interlude. Ian (25:41) Lisa's Lisa's a case study, man. Like that she is something else. Tori (25:46) She goes on a walk before these parties. She's with Heather, Lisa, and Angie. And Angie finally opens up to Lisa just to give a little bit of context. Like, I'm really struggling in my marriage. Lisa even has like a relatable moment. She says, I went through this with John last year. Don't give up on 25 years. This might be a passing moment. Like she's really, I'm watching that uh scene and I'm like, wow, Lisa, okay. Like, Kudos because Angie and Lisa have been pretty bumpy. And as a reminder, just for you, Ian, and for those that don't watch, Angie started this show as Lisa's friend. She started as a friend of Ian (26:27) I didn't know that. Tori (26:28) for Lisa. So they've really come a long way, and not necessarily in like a good way. But they're they're really connecting,

okay. Now cut to this caviar lounge, and it's interesting. It's Mary Kwai Lisa Meredith. And I'll juxtapose two reactions here. Qai is saying, like, Mary, you know, Angie loves you. You guys are such good friends. Not to say, not to push her, but just like as a reminder, like, I know Angie is so remorseful. Have you talked to her? Blah, blah, blah. Lisa has this line to Mary, and she's like, I just don't know how you come back from this. And it's like, I was like, Wow, Lisa, like you just had this really connecting walk saying like I th I thought Lisa was gonna be like, you know, Mary, there's a little bit more going on behind the scenes. Not to say you have to forgive her right now, but like I really thought that that was gonna be Lisa had an opportunity to try and play Peacemaker, she didn't even keep her mouth shut about it. She just said, I don't know how you come back from this. I thought that that was real now again, good messy, but that was messy because we're talking about irreparable dan like they're using like how are Mary and Angie gonna come back from this and Ian (27:44) Well and Mary is explicitly saying you don't. Like I can't ever see her the same way again. Tori (27:48) and Lisa leans in. Now then Kwai's like, you know, she loves you, she loves you. And it's interesting because Mary goes, I am ready to hear from her. And you see Lisa, she's like letting her wheel suit. She's like, oh, really? And it's like, I don't think that that was the reaction. I think that I really do kind of think that Lisa wanted to drive a bit of a wedge there. That's just me. That's just my read on it. that was messy. Um, that was messy of Lisa to say that. To have that moment and that's why I think that Angie has not opened up to Lisa before because this is kind of the stuff, you know, she didn't bring it up at dinner in front of Mary. But anyways, I I really thought that that was messy. But um yeah. What do you think? Yeah. Ian (28:31) Can we please I I well I forgot about this. I was gonna make a joke that like Lisa's advice is how you come back from that is just to make a song or do some sort of DJ set, but but then it sparked into my head that what was it episode eight or nine where we open with Mary's vocal lessons and that Lisa, sorry, Lisa's Tori (28:48) Lisa's voc vocal lessons. Ian (28:50) and that had me dying. I look, I am not no judge Tori (28:54) Listen Ian (28:54) it just Lisa's sort of unabashed like What seems like true, genuine, but not overly the top confidence or like arrogance, but confidence is just Tori (29:04) Yeah. Ian (29:07) remarkable. It's almost charming in a way. But but like n but it's wild to me. But it's wild to me. Tori (29:09) yeah, yes. that's why she has such ride or die fans. Yeah. Well here's the thing. Yeah, Lisa's like, I don't need to protect my energy and I'm gonna be the next lady gaga. Like those are two things that she has actually said. Or like I don't need to change my energy. Sorry, she's

gonna protect her because nothing's wrong. And she is equating her vocal lesson to being the next gaga. Ian (29:31) That's her goal. That's her aspiration. Tori (29:31) So there is a level of I and you you were picking up on this from episode two, the Opry ski with Lisa B and she can't ski. So it it's it's a it's a pattern, yeah. Ian (29:44) It's wild to me. I I've mentioned this so many times, but it's like why do some of these things need to be said? Tori (29:54) What are you referencing? Ian (29:56) where she was like, How do you come back from this? Like why does that need to be said? We're all thinking it. Tori (30:00) Well be well because she chose to say that. Instead of saying Ian (30:05) Yeah. Oh Tori (30:07) there's a little bit more going on, when you're ready, maybe you guys can talk about it. Like none of that. None of that, none of that. And it was just messy for Ian (30:18) But you're right, it was very subtle. It was very subtle. Tori (30:18) Again, you know, some some of the women they accuse each other of this because it actually is true. They do kind of revel when other people aren't getting along with the people that they aren't getting along with. And so it's yeah. Ian (30:33) It's validating, right? Like that's a human experience, right? one of the worst feelings as a human being is to feel like you're the only one in anything, right? So if you're the only Tori (30:41) Yeah. Ian (30:42) one that is not liked or doesn't like this person, our immediate is like, well, what's wrong with me or what's wrong with my thinking? Or why is everybody else thinking differently than I am? So it's natural, right? It's like, okay, this person is changed. They're not who I thought they were. You know, if they had a history of being friends and then not friends, it's like, well, now everybody's seeing what I have been seeing. this change since right, so it's validating and so of course she's Tori (31:00) Right. Right. Ian (31:02) gonna say things, but man Tori (31:05) Yeah. And I'll say I I think that Kwai she was doing a good job. She went to both events. I think Kwai is having a great first season. Again, just as a housewife fan, she's doing great. And and as an aside, I I'm sure that that is pissing Brittany off. But even like there's even a moment because Kwai goes to the caviar lounge first and then she goes to Whitney's party. And just speaking of like this whole validation thing, like Meredith is like somewhat insulted. She's like she should have stayed and just gone and birthday like a slice of cake or whatever. And it's like Qui Qui's doing a good job at staying friends with everyone so far, even though she's she's had her moments with Whitney and stuff, but like it's funny because Whitney and her are the they're the longer friends. Kwai's brother is even at Whitney's daughter's birthday party. Like they have family connections and Meredith's, like Why is she going to that? And it's like, okay, Meredith, like, don't be so petty, but I mean, they will be. Ian (32:05) But it's also hilarious when Quai gets to Whitney's daughter's party and they're like, Was it a party? And then they're she's like, No, it wasn't and then the producers cut and it's the three of them in the basement. Mary's going like this. Was it Meredith is behind the DJ boo? Tori (32:20) The DJ. And certainly not a party by any means, but that was a f it was a really funny cutaway. Yeah. Ian (32:25) No, but it was so funny. Tori (32:29) I don't know if I've ever seen Mary dance like that. So yeah, Kwai kind of goes back and tells Angie that she was blocked, I think her intent is to be delicate with it. But I I do think we'll talk about the mid season trailer, but I I do think it gets twisted. But right now she's I think the intents are good. Ian (32:50) I think so too, but it's like have you ever been around like a little kid and they say something they're not supposed to say and you just wanna grab their mouth and like be quiet. I wanna Tori (32:57) Yeah. Ian (32:58) do that with these women sometimes where it's like just Tori (33:00) Yeah. Yeah. Ian (33:01) shh like don't you don't need to say that she was blocked 'cause who's it? Angie was like didn't know that she was blocked. And it was Tori (33:08) Right. Ian (33:08) really hurtful to hear about Robert Sr. And like I think this is you know, this is fascinating, like what the arc of sort of uh Angie is and and maybe sort of the irony here of like, you know One of the things that opened episode eight was her sort of defending why she told Bronwyn something when Bronwyn said no. And she's Well, you were laughing, so I didn't, you know, essentially from what we I could tell, alluding to the because you were laughing it didn't mean you were serious. So I could go ahead and do it. Tori (33:34) Yeah. Ian (33:35) And then we're in this situation where somebody's giving her information that is clearly unsettling to her, hurtful, and it's like you know. I mean, this is somet that this is part of what happens when we have to hear things that like it wasn't the right person to be telling her, in my opinion, right? Like it's it's we when Tori (33:53) Mm, yeah. Ian (33:55) we hear these messages, it's important that we hear and have context. Th this is why it's so frustrating, 'cause without the right person, we jump to conclusions. And we don't have Tori (34:03) Yeah. Well Ian (34:05) the context that we need. Tori (34:06) I think that this is what maybe the mid season trailer alludes to. I think what gets wrong in this, in this passing of information, we've talked about all season, telephone is never productive. But When Quai is with Mary at the caviar lounge, Qi says to Mary, Angie loves you. And that upsets Mary because she goes, That's not love. Like what Angie did was not love. Okay. that's Mary's read on it right now. Again, she has, she doesn't know what's going on. She's like, she's that moment did not feel

like love to Mary. Okay. But how Angie then hears, hey, I told Mary that you love her and she said that's not love, there's a moment there right at the end where Angie goes, I can't believe Mary says she doesn't love me. And like that's not what was said uh at either event in the giving or Ian (35:05) No. Tori (35:06) the passing. And in the trailer, sometimes it's hard to tell who's yelling at who. Obviously they're doing that like for a reason. But there's a moment where Mary's like, I do have a problem with you and I'm wondering if she's yelling at Kwai for passing that information because it gets twisted like that Mary said I she doesn't love Angie. And again, that was never said. Ian (35:26) so there's this like there's this framework that when I was working at a local hospital here in Charlotte that we use to assess like, you know, sort of crisis situations and it goes sort of in four steps. And the first step is when somebody has an anxiety about something, right? When we validate, when we care for, when we communicate, it can help stop this whole cycle. But if somebody's feeling very anxious about something And the cycle continues, the next phase is defensiveness, right? We get defensive, we Tori (35:50) Mm-hmm. Ian (35:51) try to justify behavior, and then we have we call like a risk or like a climactic behavior where something big happens. And then what's most important at the end of this cycle is that we have a follow-up. We have sort of a reconciliation, we have a repair. And it's interesting when you're watching these things, like Angie is clearly and understandably anxious about never Tori (36:11) Mm-hmm. Ian (36:11) having a friendship with Mary again. And when this information is given in Now Mary, now Angie's defensive. Like, well, you know, I it just it's just a one time I've been going through things. Now we get defensive, right? And we get in this need to defend ourselves. I know it's good TV. I know. It drives me baddie. Because it's just like let talk at some point. But then I wouldn't have a podcast to go on and complain about it. So No, it is. Like I Tori (36:40) I was gonna say yeah, that's half of being, you know, the therapist. The therapist side of all of it is wanting clear communication. Yeah. Yeah. Ian (36:48) it's just like let's talk. but I get it. And I think, you know, one of the interesting things too about this is, you know, we were talking before this, you know, it's interesting we didn't really talk about this big beginning of um episode eight, Angie discloses you know, what's going on to h to her dad and her brother and it's kind of interesting. You've talked about the confessionals before and how they're Like going back and watching the season. And so there's a part of me that's wondering, like, okay, if this is a big enough deal for Angie to talk to her dad and brother, who clearly may have some opinions about this, and yet Mary's seeing this and didn't know at the time. You know, how does

Tori (37:19) Mm-hmm. Ian (37:20) all of that I mean, this just funnel of information that you're getting from Tori (37:24) Mm-hmm. Ian (37:25) all angles, different times, different people, different contexts, you know, different tones, it's just it's gotta be overwhelming. Tori (37:32) Yeah, it I mean, again, we're only halfway through the season at this point. but it will be really interesting to see what happens at the reunion. I'm already curious to know Mary's read on this season as she's watching it back. And yeah, I've watched some clips and I've seen some things. I mean, I do think that Angie and Mary are gonna reconcile in in a in some sort of way. Again No, they might not be necessarily the same, but Mary is at least even by the next episode for Mary to be like I'm ready to hear her out, like I've given it some space and some thought. I'm ready. I think that that's huge for Mary, number one, again, personality wise. But then that's gotta make me think if she's ready to do that in the middle of the season, watching this back or maybe having more context, uh I I can only assume that that could be helpful. information out of. Yeah. Ian (38:27) Yeah. And and that's what's fascinating to me is like get 'cause some a lot of it can be helpful, but you know, there's other things you could learn like, well other people know about this and it it's just to me it's overwhelming. Like all the different information. Yeah. Tori (38:35) Yeah, it could it could be like, well, why didn't you tell me? Yeah, there could be lots of different reads on it. But it yeah, that's a whole nother layer that is just kind of hard to wrap your head around us not being on reality TV and never having a confessional or reunion with friends or whatever. But that's gotta be such a mind warp like idea to have lived it, then watch it and then react to it. So I don't know. Ugh, yeah. I mean yeah. It it kind of is. Ian (39:04) But I think the rest of that episode is fairly uneventful in the sense that like there's there's the birthday party and like Whitney and her husband have, you know, a what's a difficult but kind of interesting conversation. It's interesting to me to watch that scene in the sense that like It This is maybe my own skepticism, but like to watch your spouse like not be able to commit to marriage and stay that like stoic and calm and then go to the party to me was really interesting. Like I don't Tori (39:41) Mm-hmm. Ian (39:41) know I don't know what it was about that, but I was like, my like You know, and obviously the title of our podcast is Overthinking, so I am prone to overthinking, but it it was interesting that like it was clearly a discomforting conversation. But again, juxtaposed to all of the rest of this, you have this just this stark Tori (39:58) I know. Ian (39:59) contrast of this, like, okay, we're gonna celebrate our daughter's sixteenth birthday, like nothing is happening, and Tori (40:04) Yeah. Ian (40:06) and we're just gonna go. It's you could not I mean, you could not tell that he had just had that conversation with her, right? Like it's it's just fascinating Tori (40:13) I Ian (40:13) to me. Tori (40:14) yeah, housewife husbands are a whole nother Ian (40:19) Bag. Yeah. Tori (40:20) Entity. Yeah, because like in the context for our podcast, you know, maybe if we have to have another like w when the holidays are coming, maybe Ian (40:28) Mm, mm-hmm. Tori (40:29) we should talk about the housewife husbands because all of these women are experiencing different things in their marriages, but there's so much other stuff happening within them that we have hardly even talked about half of the stuff that happens within the marriage side of of this season. So that's hard to even get into. Ian (40:48) Was it Lisa's husband quoting Halsey at the beginning of whatever episode? No wonder Tori (40:51) Yes. my gosh. Ian (40:54) she's giving Angie the advice that like things could get better 'cause her husband Her husband was Tori (40:58) Well and that she doesn't have to change uh she's a great singer, she's great energy, like yeah. John has come a long way since last season, in terms of how he talks about Lisa on camera. I think he took some notes. Yeah. Halsey, yeah. Ian (41:11) Essentially okay to worship her as a goddess. Yeah, quoting we've got Halsey, we've got yeah, Lady Gaga both making names making an appearance. Well, who else could it be for at this point? Tori (41:19) For Lisa specifically. So yeah. okay. That's funny. Yeah, I do think we should talk about the husbands at some point. We did get the mid season trailer. So again, as a reminder, Ian, we are halfway through. We're on episode nine and no end in sight. Ian (41:37) I feel like I yeah, I feel like I have to have some full disclosure. Um I don't watch the midseason trailer. Um I I know. I know, but Tori, it's so over I Tori (41:43) There is a lie Okay. Ian (41:47) so I in full full disclosure, I watched both episodes yesterday and n an hour and a half of Housewives in a day, I was I was pretty um pretty tap so not look. Tori (41:51) Okay. That's a lot for you yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. So it's like two minutes extra, but okay, okay. Ian (42:04) Of chaos Of chaos and destruction. Tori (42:08) no, I mean I said there's no end site. There's a lot more coming. So there's Ian (42:11) There is. And I watched like I sort of f phased in and out of it. Like there was some more yelling, and then there's a little bit more yelling, and then there was some talking and then a little bit more yelling, but I don't really remember. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Tori (42:19) Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing is there's another cash trip. So that's gonna be really big. And you know, we got three episodes of a weekend in San Francisco. They're going to Hawaii. So I've I'm assuming that they're going for like a uh Ian (42:38) You would assume a week. Tori (42:38) a long weekend or a full week. So that's a lot of contained time. Um I don't know if Mary is on that trip. I couldn't tell. I will say notably Brittany is still absent from a lot of what seems like a lot of filming. and yeah, a lot of a lot of fighting. But Mary is still in a lot of the clips but I couldn't tell if she was in Hawaii. But another big trip coming up. so we're gonna have a lot, a lot to talk about. So yeah, that's that's where we're at. Ian (43:10) Well, thank you everybody for tuning in and for being patient with me as I was on a beach somewhere. we appreciate Tori (43:16) Offline. Ian (43:16) you as always overthinking with us. Please like, subscribe, please leave your comments. If there are situations or things you would like us to talk about, please let us know in the comments. we love hearing your feedback and your thoughts and we look forward as always to overthinking with you. and then we will take the week to take a bunch of deep breaths, clear our energy and prepare for the chaos Tori (43:35) Regulate. Ian (43:36) that 'cause I do feel like even though like episode nine wasn't a filler, it wasn't it w it was like it was building up to Tori (43:43) Well, Ian (43:43) something like Tori (43:45) here's the thing, this I've I have talked to some friends too about the different shows that are on and th because like I said, there's other cities that are on right now. And Salt Lake for sure is the most explosive, the most chaotic, like the most going on compared. And so as you're Ian (44:02) How could it not be? Tori (44:04) But like I've gotta say, for your introduction, an episode like episode nine, that would be a regular episode on another city. And you're like, it was kind of like a filler. So your gauge is gonna be so off if we if we go into another show, another city. Like, you're not gonna I your highs, your Ian (44:20) You started me out in the deep end. Tori (44:22) your highs and lows are so off kilter that it's funny that that is just a filler episode, even though there's already so much. So we're we'll all have to regulate somehow. But you gotta just start start strong and then you can adjust. Ian (44:39) I'm glad to hear that this is on the stronger end, though, to be honest with you. Cause like I'm not imagining. At some point, this is Tori (44:41) It it is. Yeah. I I I can say that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Even even even strong Housewife fans are like it's it's a lot. Ian (44:52) I feel validated in that, thank you. That really does validate my experience when I'm watching this. Tori (44:54) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ian (44:57) I'm like, what is happening? Tori (44:59) It's a yeah, it's a lot. It's it's a it's a big season. Ian (45:02) Okay.