UDSKRIFT 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:20.719
My guest is Ron Cod, who I had the pleasure of meeting about 15 years ago.
00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:25.120
We connected over technology and having mutual friends and interests.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:28.480
Ron started his career in public accounting.
00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:34.079
And after a few years, he went in-house as a director of FPA at Tandem Computers.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:45.119
Eight years later, Ron was the SVP and CFO of PeopleSoft when the company went from providing small HR software solutions to becoming a large ERP player.
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:51.600
Ron went on to become president of Momentum Business Applications, later acquired by PeopleSoft.
00:00:51.840 --> 00:01:01.759
He then took on corporate director roles at Agile, Interwoven, Data Domain, Demand Tech, Rocket Fuel, and a Data Robotics Company.
00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:03.359
I hope I'm not missing anything there.
00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.840
Ron went on to board roles at ServiceNow, Viva at Mandiant.
00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:13.840
Ron isn't just a smart finance and business leader, he's also a force of nature.
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:21.120
His energy is contagious, and people that know him describe him as someone who's always game for an adventure.
00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:26.959
I'm excited to have Ron tell us about his journey and how he's enjoying his life right now.
00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:29.280
Welcome to the podcast, Ron.
00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:31.439
Thank you for being with us today.
00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:34.319
Let's begin with you telling us about yourself.
00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:35.920
Thank you very much, Lisa.
00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:37.200
I appreciate being here.
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:39.760
I was born in Ottawa, Canada.
00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.359
My father flew for the RAF in World War II.
00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:48.799
He had a job as a computer scientist with IBM and he'd become an American citizen.
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:57.840
Then came the McCarthyism era, and he decided to pick up stakes, quit his job at IBM, and he moved to Canada with my mother.
00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.480
McCarthy was censured actually in 1954.
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:06.079
After that censure, things calmed down, and my father decided to return to the United States.
00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:10.080
He reclaimed his job at IBM and went from there.
00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:12.400
We moved around a lot as kids.
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:32.960
I've been moved was the acronym for IBM, and that was so I got used to starting anew in different environments until we moved to California, and that's where I lived for most of my adult life up through 2018 when my wife and I moved to Nevada.
00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:42.000
We decided that a change would be interesting and the taxes, and we made that move, and we absolutely love it here.
00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.919
My wife was quite apprehensive about the move.
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:57.759
She was taking a big risk in her mind because she was a California-born and raised gal who'd never experienced four seasons other than for ski vacations and was worried about leaving her community.
00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:03.759
But it turns out she now says it's one of the best things she ever did, and I know it's one of the best things that I ever did.
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:04.400
Yeah.
00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:09.360
How was it to go someplace new and make new friends later on in life?
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.319
Yeah, that's a really interesting and very important question.
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:18.639
So there was some angst around whether or not we could re-establish a strong new community.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:22.319
You want to be able to create new community where you go.
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:27.520
And that turns out to be a lot less of a challenge than you might think.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:32.960
First of all, we moved into an area that has a country club, so that was an immediate boost.
00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:40.400
But there were many other ways that we were able to make connections in the area, including through work we did with nonprofits.
00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:42.240
We have a family foundation.
00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:47.439
We did a lot of fundraising for some causes that allowed us to meet a lot of people.
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:53.919
So we have established a new and very broad network here very quickly.
00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:57.680
And it really isn't as difficult as you might think.
00:03:58.000 --> 00:03:59.280
There's so many different activities.
00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:05.599
You got neighborhood next door you can create and other social opportunities to create connections.
00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:08.639
That hasn't proved to be at all challenging.
00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:10.319
Oh, good for you.
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:16.399
What activities have you explored and pursued in retirement?
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:23.680
Well, not a large number, frankly, because I'm ADD.
00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:34.079
Uh self-described originally, but uh but then confirmed actually in a in a uh doctor's appointment I had a couple of years ago.
00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:36.319
My physician was asking me how things were.
00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.800
And I said, you know, pretty good, except for I'm getting very impatient with myself sometimes.
00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:43.439
I'm kind of short-tempered with myself.
00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:47.040
And he said, Huh, have you ever been diagnosed ADD?
00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.040
And I said, Well, only self-diagnosed.
00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:51.199
And he said, Well, let's give you a test.
00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:52.720
And he gave me a test.
00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:54.639
It was a written test, by the way.
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.920
Uh, and I either passed or failed, depending on your perspective.
00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.600
But he said, Oh, yeah, you're ADD or ADHD.
00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:06.879
I can't remember
Load full transcript
which he specifically said, but he said, Do you want me to prescribe some Ritalin for you?
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:11.279
And I said, Well, you know, I've managed to survive 68 years without it.
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:12.399
I don't think so.
00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:18.160
Uh I'll try some other tricks, or maybe you can recommend a counselor to me to talk to.
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:22.560
I've always been willing to experiment with new things.
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.800
I'm a uh lifelong learner.
00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:32.240
I would say that things like understanding AI and what's going on in AI has been a significant occupant of my time.
00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.079
So has been learning to trade stock options.
00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:40.399
I'm really getting into doing advanced trading of stock options these days.
00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:42.240
I'm having a lot of fun with that.
00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:42.959
Yeah.
00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:48.800
What's been your process to understand the new technology around AI?
00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:50.560
A number of things.
00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:59.680
The catalyst for that was I undertook a co-professorship at UNR in a graduate course in governance.
00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:11.680
And one of the assignments that we decided to give this class was to look at anthropic and chat GPT, look at their corporate governance structures.
00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:37.600
They were both designed to advance the general human social agenda within the AI framework and protect us, if you will, from some of the adverse consequences that were envisioned from pursuing an unlimited and speedy uh approach to developing AI that might have unpleasant effects on society.
00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:52.240
And so we we had them study that, and I put together a lecture to give the class on AI, and the first thing I discovered was that not a single one of them had had any classes in AI anywhere on the agenda.
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.000
Oh, isn't that interesting?
00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.879
Well, I think many universities were dodging this topic up until very recently.
00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:04.079
I think that the bigger concern was, oh gee, whiz, you know, kids are gonna use AI to cheat on their exams.
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:05.519
How are we gonna deal with that?
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.240
It's gonna dumb down their thinking processes.
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:24.959
So we don't really want them to significantly adopt the use of AI because we're afraid it's going to take the process of thinking and analyzing and writing, even it's gonna dumb down those skill sets if we let them use it.
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.439
So they avoided it, I think.
00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:44.720
When in fact, now when I'm asked by any young person what should I be studying in school, I will say you should be knowing and learning everything you can about AI and how to use it, because it is going to be an important tool going forward for the world.
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:52.959
You can be more relevant knowing how to use it than you can be almost developing any other specific skill.
00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:53.360
Yeah.
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:58.639
I think things have changed a lot, though, and universities are beginning to embrace this thing in a much bigger way.
00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:00.319
It it is exponential.
00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:07.360
It's going so fast, it's hard for humans to comprehend the speed of innovation and change here.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:20.720
And I I do worry sometimes about humans' ability to adapt to change and whether or not we're going to have a smooth ride here as the pace of change continues to accelerate.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:23.120
And it's like it's going to continue.
00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:26.560
I think by 2030, we will be living in a different world.
00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:27.279
Yeah.
00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.720
So let's take that one step forward.
00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:33.440
What would be your advice to anyone listening?
00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:38.720
What would be some of the first three steps that you would recommend?
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:48.799
Someone who doesn't know anything about AI, scared about AI, maybe has been hearing it on social media and hearing it on the news, but really maybe has no experience with it.
00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.039
What would your recommendation be?
00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:52.879
Because everybody wants to stay relevant.
00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:54.399
Nobody wants to be left behind.
00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:55.360
And you've done that.
00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.159
So what would be your top three steps or so?
00:08:58.559 --> 00:08:59.279
Yeah, okay.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:04.080
So one is I would look at some YouTube videos on AI.
00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:07.279
There's an incredible amount of information on YouTube.
00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:13.440
There's a series by a couple of engineers at IBM that is very good.
00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:16.559
Jeff Kroom, C R U M E, I think it is.
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:18.960
He is one of the engineers at IBM.
00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:36.799
He's a very clear, easy to understand fellow that manages to dumb things down pretty well, basic AI concepts, a discussion of large language models, which are in effect one of the underpinnings of Chat GPT, anthropic, clawed, etc.
00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:43.200
The second thing I would do, there's podcasts on AI, like the daily AI podcast.
00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:58.480
And there's one that he did on Copilot, just explaining how simple it is to use Copilot, which is one of the AI engines you can use, just by clicking on an icon that's on Microsoft's Edge browser.
00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:03.759
And you can install it just by going online to Microsoft.com and get it there.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:07.279
The one thing I would warn you is it is not all-knowing.
00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.759
You have to sometimes question it.
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:20.399
And I will occasionally I'll look at a response that I've had to a prompt, a question that I've posed to AI, and I will think this does not seem right.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:21.519
There's something wrong with this.
00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:23.039
And I will challenge it.
00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:30.080
And it is readily capable of accepting these challenges and re-evaluating what it has told me.
00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:34.559
And sometimes it says, Oh, you're darn right, you know, uh I didn't get this quite right.
00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:38.879
Uh I found something else, and here's an alternate truth, if you will.
00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:44.240
Uh one thing to understand about AI is it's not deterministic, it's probabilistic.
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:45.039
What does that mean?
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:54.639
Well, it means that if you ask the same exact question twice in a row, you will probably get two different answers because it's doing word forecasting, by the way.
00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:59.840
This is just large language models are nothing more than word forecasting tools.
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:04.639
And it's like autocomplete of a sentence in an email, except for what it's doing.
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:08.559
It's autocompleting an entire essay, an entire analysis.
00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.240
There's all sorts of things it can do, but it's all autocompletion.
00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:14.480
Start using it, experiment with it.
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.080
It's just incredible how much value you can get out of this.
00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:18.639
Okay.
00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:24.960
Any advice on what to do or not to do as people are playing around with it, or is it just free for all?
00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:29.200
You can just go in and start playing around with it, and there's no gotchas or things to think about.
00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:33.440
I'm imagining people, maybe even older than us, that might be listening.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:43.919
Well, okay, all of these companies that have these large language models are trying to learn from the interaction that these large language models are having with humans.
00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:48.240
So they are typically recording what you're doing.
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:57.919
The privacy issues here, if you're really concerned about them, uh then I would advise being more cautious about what kinds of interactions you're having with it.
00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:00.399
Know that you're being recorded, basically.
00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:01.759
I'm gonna switch gears now.
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.519
Do you consider yourself retired now?
00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:13.279
Yeah, uh that that's a good question because sometimes I ask myself, well, what does retirement actually mean?
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:26.720
I think if it if it means you're no longer in a W-2 or 1099 kind of job, you're not regularly earning money, then yes, I'm I'm pretty much fully retired.
00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.960
Even then, I don't consider retirement to be a finality.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:36.720
These days, in particular, I think gaps in your resume are allowable.
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:44.000
If you want to take some time off and then you decide, wow, retirement isn't for me, you've got the option to go back to work.
00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:46.240
Now you have to stay relevant, of course.
00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.000
You've got to keep your skill sets up.
00:12:48.080 --> 00:13:00.320
And by the way, the simplest way to do that is to learn AI because if you go back to work, having a good knowledge or understanding of how to use AI tools, you're gonna be valuable to a lot of employers right now.
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:10.159
As you were transitioning out of full-time work, was your plan all along to do board roles as a part of the transition?
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:11.519
How did that happen?
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:12.480
How did that evolve?
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.919
Because I know a lot of people want to do board roles.
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:25.679
And there's a lot of work in planning and networking and projects and relationship building that goes into board roles.
00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:32.960
And I think some people retire and they think, oh, I'll get on some boards, and they don't talk to people about that process.
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:38.799
So for anyone that might be listening, because I know that that's something that a lot of people have a desire to do.
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:40.399
Yes, absolutely.
00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:45.679
So over my career, I was actually on 20 boards over about a 25-year span.
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:47.759
You missed a few names, but don't worry about it.
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:48.720
Wow.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:50.480
Okay, so you have a lot of experience.
00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.080
So I'm really glad I asked this question.
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:56.240
I think getting onto boards as sort of this flywheel.
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.200
You have to get the flywheel in motion.
00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:04.960
Once it gets in motion and develops a little bit of momentum, then getting on boards is really easy.
00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:08.960
You're building a network, you are building credibility.
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:14.960
It's really the focus of having some sort of thesis behind what you're bringing to the table.
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:22.639
For me, it was financial background and this experience with high tech, high growth, and private to public transitioning.
00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.440
I did 13 IPOs over my career.
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:27.600
So yeah, one way or the other.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.759
I either was in management or on the board participating in those IPOs.
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.000
But it there is this flywheel effect.
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:44.399
And so I got that flywheel going while I was still very well into my professional career, actively still being a CFO or a CEO.
00:14:44.720 -->
00:14:47.440
And again, that that flywheel effect is important.
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.120
Get it going and keep it going.
00:14:49.360 --> 00:15:02.879
If I've made any mistakes, it was not trying to get a better flywheel effect going outside of Silicon Valley in California before I really wound down all the existing California boards I had.
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:27.279
So to summarize, the components of the flywheel are currently active, having a direct hands-on experience, not necessarily as a consultant, but someone that's actually done it, that's led a company in some important aspect that is transformational and or desirable for the company that's seeking a board member.
00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:29.039
And then the relationships.
00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.120
And do you think industry experience is important?
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:38.080
Sometimes I find that industry experience is absolutely you have to have it.
00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:55.200
And sometimes not having it and having a different perspective, but seeing the business cycle or the business challenges actually adds a level of out-of-the-box thinking into the board that's helpful in problem solving when a board gets stuck or hasn't seen something before.
00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:56.960
Yeah, no, that's very true.
00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:58.320
That is absolutely true.
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.000
I do think it's a mix.
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:12.480
Understanding the business model and the context, the economic, broad macroeconomic context, the markets, the products that the company's operating in, that's a very important context to have.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:15.279
So if you have the industry experience, you bring a lot of that.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:16.960
It doesn't mean you can't build it.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:17.360
Right.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:18.240
Yep.
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.440
Yeah, I've been in tech and then got recruited to Genentech.
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:38.720
And I remember walking in and being around all these very smart scientists, lovely people that were looking for cures for diseases that no one else was trying to tackle.
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:44.080
And I remember feeling like this is a special place, but they're not going to hire me because all I have is tech experience.
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:53.200
And this young lady that I had laid off at Sun, she was now the executive assistant to one of our franchise heads.
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:59.360
I walked into the interview and she pointed at me and she's like, I remember you, you laid me off at Sun.
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:04.880
And I was like, Oh, now I'm really not going to get this job.
00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:10.480
And she said, I'll never forget, our group had re-orged into another group.
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:16.240
You didn't know me for Adam, but you promised me you were going to call me in a week to see how I was doing.
00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:18.000
And you called me.
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.839
And she says, I'm going to walk in right now and tell them we need to hire you.
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.680
We need good people like you.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.640
I had never been so grateful.
00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.640
And I remembered feeling I'm committed to learning the science.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:38.640
Because if I'm going to come in here, and the way that I practiced HR was about learning the business and truly being an HR business partner.
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:44.799
You can't make people decisions or have an opinion about the business if you don't understand the business.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:46.480
And trust me, I am not a scientist.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.000
So for me, it was really high level.
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.640
So I think some people have that desire to learn the business, and I think they can switch.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:54.960
And I was one of those people that asked questions.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.519
I said, listen, my first six months, I'm going to ask all the rookie questions.
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:00.799
Is that okay or not?
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.440
Or do I need to go find somebody that I can learn it from?
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:03.920
Right.
00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:09.119
You really have to be creative and you have to be asking questions that can add value.
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:13.279
But you also need an organization that's going to be open to that.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:24.559
Because I see I see some where they're very smart, they have their way of doing things, they've been on the board for a long time, they have a rhythm, and somebody new comes in and asks questions.
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:30.640
And instead of them going, Oh, hey, we like this new energy, we like this fresh perspective, the eyes start rolling.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.599
People are like, Yeah, okay, I'm gonna switch gears on the case.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:45.200
I just want to make one comment on your so I I think going back to that story about that gal and your job at Genentech, you you brought up a very important principle that I that I embrace totally, which is treat people right.
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:50.799
If you treat people right, it it will come back to help you.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.160
If you don't treat them right, it will come back to haunt you.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.559
And uh that was just a great example of that.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:56.799
Yeah.
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:00.960
That's a very important principle as well, and uh one I've embraced all of my life.
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:01.839
Um thank you.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.039
By the way, and this did have something to do with quite a bit of success I had on boards.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:15.599
When I got a call from anybody that I knew or was referred by anybody that I knew and said, Hey, can you help me with this?
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:17.839
I would always make the effort to help them.
00:19:18.079 -->
00:19:28.480
Often those things would actually evolve into a consulting engagement, maybe, or a board seat, or meeting somebody that led to a board seat.
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:36.079
Uh the kindness and generosity don't cost anything.
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:50.319
And I sometimes I stop and think about all the people that helped me along the way, and so so grateful for everyone that was a friend or maybe not so much a fan of mine, because they all taught me something.
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:50.880
Yeah.
00:19:51.200 --> 00:20:02.000
But uh that dovetails nicely into the next question, which is did you have a mentor or friends that helped guide you or talk to you about retirement?
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.680
I wasn't really thinking about retirement in any conscious way.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:18.480
Now, there was one point though where I did have a fairly important influential interaction with my personal physician back in when I was the CFO of PeopleSoft, managing over 100% growth a year.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:24.400
I was having chest pains, and I went to my doctor and I said, give me a real workup here.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:25.839
I want to know what's going on.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.799
And uh, and and just so you know, I I have some options here.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:36.640
You know, I can I can kick back if I need to because I'm in a good enough financial situation where I really have choices here.
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:42.480
So I want to know candidly what you think about my my physical situation here.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:48.559
And he did a workup and we sat down and he said, he said, you're you're really quite healthy.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:53.759
I think that your chest pains are really related to stress.
00:20:53.920 --> 00:21:01.279
And there's an important thing you should know, which is there's a correlation between retirement and death.
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.920
And I thought about that for a moment and I said, I got it.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:12.640
Uh and that was the end of that even contemplation of sort of stepping back and slowing down.
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.440
I figured, oh, well, I, you know, no problem.
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:23.279
I'm gonna get past my chest pains because they're just stress, so it's not anything that that would be potentially fatal for me, and I'm gonna keep going.
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:24.319
And that's what I did.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:33.359
But I I took that message to heart in the sense that you really do need to have what the French refer to as raison d'être.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.200
That's the proper, I think, French pronunciation for it.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.079
But it really means reason to be.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:54.240
If you retire without having any concept at all for what you might do after retirement, you want to have and embrace interests and a set of activities that are going to keep you engaged in life.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:57.359
They're gonna keep you looking forward to getting up the next day.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:01.359
This raison d'être is a very Important concept.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:07.599
And it's one that everybody should at least think about as they contemplate retirement.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:08.240
Yeah.
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.480
What are the components of yours?
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.200
The biggest right now is staying active.
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:20.960
One of the things that influenced me recently was I read a book a few years ago.
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:26.799
This book was a very important in evolving the way I think about my personal health and fitness.
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.119
It's called Younger Next Year.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:35.599
And the basic thesis of the book is that look, we were created as a species that were hunters and gatherers.
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:37.359
We were constantly active.
00:22:37.519 --> 00:23:00.960
And if you want your body to age in a gradual manner, if you want your aging curve to look more like an upsloping during your maturation years, and then a very slight downward but long straight line that extends out far to the right, you have to bend your aging curve.
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:09.839
Their thesis is you can bend that aging curve by staying very active and by being careful about what you eat and that type of thing.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:15.440
And they said this idea of 20-minute brisk walk three times a week is ridiculous.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:21.359
It's just not even close to what you need to do to replicate what you would have been engaged in.
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.400
So be active, work out six times a week.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:28.480
We'd say seven, but we think that's a bridge too far for everybody to swallow.
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.000
So we're giving you a day off.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:31.759
But work out six days a week.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:40.799
My wife developed this saying with her golf girlfriends uh life's too short for a low handicap, which I think is an excellent saying.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:42.880
And it's absolutely what I practice.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.240
Life too short.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:44.880
Yeah.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:45.599
Wow.
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:52.799
Uh what advice do you have for people thinking about or in the midst of creating a satisfying next chapter?
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:57.599
I was a stamp collector very early in my life when I was a kid.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:59.599
And I've got a massive stamp collection.
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.119
And I've thought maybe I'll get back to looking at that again one of these days.
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:04.880
And that would be something that I might do.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:09.759
But I've decided that that can be postponed until I'm not as mobile.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:18.960
But I mean, I think about how do I optimize the combination right now of my mental and physical current
attributes.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:24.240
Right now I can optimize them by really staying mentally active and physically active.
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.359
What three things would you tell your pre-retirement self?
00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:34.319
I I would say don't worry about it.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:41.279
I was never really thinking about retirement being a big question and whether and when I should do it.
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:47.119
I would be patting myself on the back for making the uh locational change we did.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.119
It's a great outdoor paradise.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:59.440
For me, I love to ride motorcycles and it's a much safer place to ride, especially since I can do a five-minute ride out of town here and be on a road where there's no cars.
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:04.240
Uh the only thing I have to worry about, frankly, is nature, you know, animals or something like that.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:06.160
The outdoor experience here is wonderful.
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:13.519
And you might want to consider as a next chapter in your life, if you're going to retire, a just a change of venue.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:22.160
It can be very stimulating to the mind, to the body, and to your life experience to go to a new place and experience new things.
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.000
A lot of retirees I know do chase around their kids.
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:34.319
So their kids have gone to hither and yon, and they are trying to move around to stay closer to them.
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:39.200
By the way, I do want to mention something in terms of engaging your kids during retirement.
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:42.079
There's two things that I've done that I think are useful to share.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:47.920
One, obviously, with this family foundation, we didn't inherit anything from our parents of any substance.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.599
They did, by the way, provide for our education, which was a gift enough.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.759
We've created this family foundation.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:26:00.640
And we made both of our kids, one who's uh 27 now and one who's 36.
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:03.359
Um, big gap there, I know.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:05.279
We've made them trustees in the foundation.
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:07.279
Gaps are good in the remote.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:08.880
Gaps are good.
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:21.119
Uh but uh we made them trustees in our foundation, and we fully expect them to take over this foundation when we pass along, and we're fully expecting them to carry on this tradition of helping the world.
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:22.720
And uh that was one thing we did.
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:30.880
The other thing we did that I think is very interesting for people to consider is you have to think about your lifestyle after you retire, what kind of lifestyle you want to maintain.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.400
And one of those things is do you already have a second home or third home?
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:43.440
Those things tend to be something that can require a lot of financial infusion ongoing, as well as work of your own.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.640
We have a place between Grass Valley and Auburn on a lake.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.519
We love the place.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:48.720
It's a great family place.
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:58.079
We're hoping to hold it forever in our family, but it's a lot of work, and so we do have to go there every year and put in a fair amount of labor just keeping the place up.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.519
It's a five-acre parcel that requires a lot of maintenance.
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:12.960
We decided rather than waiting till we die to gift this thing to our kids, we're going to set it up in an LLC and we're going to spin out a good bit of the ownership now.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:20.720
What we did was we spun out 35% of the ownership to our daughter and 35% of the ownership to our son.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:32.480
And that has given them not just a sense of ownership in the financial sense, but a real sense of ownership in the sense of, okay, this is now really ours, and it is.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:33.920
They own more than we do.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:35.920
My wife and I own a total of 30%.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.359
We're minority owners.
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:37.599
Yeah.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:44.240
Now we set up some rules in the LLC where if they wanted to sell the property out, it would require a unanimous decision on that.
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:49.759
But we're not having to invest the same amount of time now in taking care of the place that we used to.
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:51.839
But but what's fun about this?
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:52.799
Think about this.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:58.720
You can put all this stuff in your will that you want, and when you die, it'll get passed along.
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.359
You will never see the benefit of any of that gift.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:03.440
You're not going to be around to see it.
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:07.759
So why not start giving this stuff away now, now?
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:16.319
Because we're going to enjoy the benefits of this sharing and giving while we can still experience the the result of that.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:16.880
Right.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.400
Are the kids going out and helping with the maintenance of the home?
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:21.119
Absolutely.
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:21.680
Absolutely.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:28.319
That's taken real ownership of a lot of that, which has offloaded a tremendous amount of burden from us.
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:32.559
Are they using the house more now that our son uses it quite a bit?
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:33.359
Yeah.
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:39.680
Our younger generation is not going to be as well off as we were.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.039
It's really a fact.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:48.799
Our younger generation is going to be the first generation in the United States that does not do better than their parents.
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:51.119
And they're not going to in the aggregate.
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:55.759
That's what all the economic macroeconomic analyses I've read say.
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:01.359
Individually, there'll be some great successes and there'll be a few billionaires out of the pack and all that.
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:13.519
But on the whole, this is the first time in America that the generation set below the baby boomers will not be as well off as their parents.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.799
Why is that?
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.720
Yeah, I'm afraid that part of it has to do with government spending.
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.880
When we grew up, hell, the deficits were near zero.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.599
And look at it now, that money crowds out everything else.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:36.319
It crowds out investment return opportunities, it crowds out being able to spend for the present because you it's harder to.
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.000
Yeah, you're strapped down with debt.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:39.519
It crowds out a ton of things.
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:48.079
And so that's one of the things I talk to my kids about too is when you get a raise, you never you didn't need the money before.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.000
Try to sock it away and say, yeah.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:58.480
One of the things that I'm recognizing is it's so easy to go online and buy things.
00:29:58.720 --> 00:29:59.039
Yeah.
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:04.480
And people see that that's the norm or believe that's the norm because they see that on social media.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.400
I try to tell my kids, like, just don't do that.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:11.119
Think about your money as a precious resource.
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:12.880
That's gonna make the difference.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:14.880
And I think it's that mindset.
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.759
And I didn't have anybody to rely on.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.039
I didn't have a parent that I could go to if I was strapped.
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.599
I was like, sink or swim, right?
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.599
So I sank a couple times.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.720
I came out of it and learned how to swim faster, right?
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:38.799
And so for me, it's balancing to how much and in what capacity do I help my children, and in what ways is that actually helpful or potentially harmful?
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:40.559
Yeah, you got to worry about that.
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:41.119
I agree.
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:42.720
We did help our kids a lot.
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:50.960
I mean, what I did was I wrote a philosophy document and I said, you know, this is the way we really would like to see you manage it.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:55.200
By the way, we we set it up as a trust originally, but it was a trust until they were 25.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:31:06.400
And when they turned 25, we
converted the trust to a designated beneficiary situation where I can actually log in and see what's going on with the brokerage accountant that holds their funds.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.319
I I can see that what's going on.
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.599
I don't have control of it.
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.119
So if tomorrow they decided to put a match to it, they could.
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.440
Do you have that trust with them that they're not gonna they're not gonna do it?
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:31.119
I do, and I think that to a certain extent, you could call it détente almost because I think they realize that if they don't responsibly manage this trust fund, that they may not get anything more.
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.119
It's always a possibility.
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:42.559
But the fact is, I wrote this relatively long philosophy document, and basically what it says is look, wealth is hard to build and it's hard to retain across generations.
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:49.279
It's well known that one generation builds it, the next one kind of milks it, and the the third one burns it, basically.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:57.200
And that's the general concept of family wealth, but it's sustained over time with careful management and custodianship.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:02.960
And what I've tried to convince my kids is look, this should not be looked at as some kind of spending pot for you.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:03.440
It's not.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:14.240
If you want to borrow money from it to buy an asset that is a non-depreciating asset, like a home or a business or something like that, go right ahead, knock yourself out, invest it.
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:18.799
Invest, you can use it to invest in yourself to go back and get schooling or whatever.
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:21.599
Borrow some money from it, take it out, invest in yourself.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:23.519
Hopefully, you'll be able to pay it back from that.
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:25.279
You don't need to make the case to me.
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.359
You need to make the case to yourself.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:29.759
And they've totally respected that.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:33.359
They understand the philosophy, and it does make sense.
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:41.039
It makes a lot of sense, and they are smart enough to know that there's too much that makes sense about this not to mess with it.
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:48.559
I think, in addition to the fact that again, they know that if they irresponsibly use it, that that may be the end of the gravy train.
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:53.200
You've given you given me and hopefully our listeners a lot of things to think about.
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:54.400
So thank you.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:55.680
I I'm gonna borrow that.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.920
Well, and the job of a parent never ends.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:02.559
You you've gotta want to love this job for the rest of your life if you have a kid.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.039
It's it's a full it's a full-time job.
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.119
You know, you just can't stop worrying about them.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.680
It goes with the territory and it does.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:10.799
Yeah.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.319
Well, thank you.
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:13.519
I had a lot of fun.
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.839
You gave me a lot to think about.
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:16.880
Thank you.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:17.839
You bet.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:20.480
Hi, listeners.
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.880
We're adding variety to our podcast.
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:28.400
Thanks to your feedback, we're expanding to include multi-generational perspectives.
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.319
You were introduced to my son Ricky in our first About Us episode.
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.000
He produces the show.
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:42.640
I knew Ron was a dynamo, but I have to admit, I was floored when he told me he did 13 IPOs and 20 board roles.
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:48.799
His description on how to get onto boards, being like a flywheel, was insightful.
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:57.519
If you know someone who wants to become a board member and might need some advice about how to do it, send them this episode and let us know if it was helpful.
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.440
So, Ricky, I know you're not looking to get on boards just yet.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:03.920
How was the interview helpful to you?
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:16.480
I thought the interview was really informative because I was curious about how AI would be utilized across the world in the next couple years, so it was interesting to hear him share his knowledge and his perspective on that topic.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:23.840
I also liked hearing about him being a professor at UNR and his advice to professionals to know as much about AI as possible.
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:31.840
I've even taken it upon myself to dive into some AI prompting classes to make sure that I'm staying current in this ever-changing world.