Fuld transskription af Hutton & Withrow: Titans in CHAOS: Cam Ward's Future, Robert Saleh's Warning & Jeffrey Simmons Trade Fallout | Hour 1

through it and just listen for one player when he's talking about this. It's just Cam Ward. That's what they're basically saying. Listen to this again. The next nine weeks about evaluating this roster, it's about evaluating one player. And it has been about that since September. 00:05:51 Speaker 3: And I'll just tell you what I told the team. You know, the next nine games are going to define the next 10 years of Titans football. And the expectation is that we come back, we play with the effort and the tenacity of everything we got in every single game. And we lay it all on the line and we continue to build on what we're trying to get done here. And, you know, whatever happens, happens. But at the end of the day, I do think we are getting better. I hate to hear a record, but eventually the tides are going to turn. 00:06:21 Speaker 1: For Cam. 00:06:24 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, Hutton, because you're right. It's a Cam Ward further evaluation. 00:06:29 Speaker 1: That's the 10-year plan. 00:06:30 Speaker 2: Is there anything, and I would ask all of our viewers watching as well, is there anything that Cam Ward could accomplish over these last nine meaningless games from a statistical standpoint, leadership, something on the field that you watch, and any Titans fan out there would say, I feel with 100% certainty— this is the guy to build our franchise around moving forward. Anything in these last nine games. I mean, well, does he have to replicate at this performance this past week, every single week? I think he would need to do that for me to say without, without many stupid plays at all that we've seen in the past and there were turnovers this past weekend too, for me to honestly say, yeah, let's, let's give him, let's give him the team moving forward and let's not worry about quarterback. 00:07:18 Speaker 1: Um, I'm going to pull this up while I'm discussing this with you because I'm just thinking about this. Is there anything he could do? I think the answer is with 100% certainty, no. We have seen this script, though, play out before. The 2006 season with Vince Young. When he comes in in the final half of the season, he hadn't played 24 games. That's the point here. It's like what you've done now, we cannot forget what we've seen. But if over the second half of this season, If he plays like we just saw him play in Cincinnati, sure, sure, we could see some things move forward to the offseason where you feel like he's turned a corner. But this is one game. We saw Will Levis. Will Levis threw for 300 yards, Chad, in his first game, in his first start as a Tennessee Titan. Look how things worked out there. One game doesn't define anything, but nine games? And a stretch where he actually stacks positive and consistent performances? We've never seen that from him. So, I mean, is there a chance? You're telling me there's a chance. But is it likely? 00:08:28 Speaker 3: No. 00:08:29 Speaker 1: Is there anything he can do? Yes. But it's got to be stacking and improving on what we've seen. The baseline play, we have seen him play. Like the floor. His past start was the ceiling. And I think it's key that he played like that going into the bye, by the way. The vibe right now that we're talking about today, we don't even bring this up at all if he doesn't have the performance that he had in Cincinnati of his career. But now that should be the floor now, right? 00:09:03 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:09:04 Speaker 1: And if that's the floor in week 18, okay. 00:09:07 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:09:09 Speaker 1: Now you can go into the offseason, you're still bringing in competition. 00:09:13 Speaker 2: But it's all meaningless games. This is my problem. 00:09:17 Speaker 1: I agree. 00:09:18 Speaker 2: And why I bring up the question. If we would have seen two of these games out of the first four or five, if half of his performances were explosive, dynamic, he's completing passes, and the defense just can't get off the field, they lose the game. I'm thinking, okay, he's improved. Well, off of that offshoot of whatever he did in December of last year, right? But now what I see is a guy that he's terrible when games matter and he's making dumb decisions and his footwork's not improving and all this. And suddenly you flip the switch to, hey guys, nothing else matters. Just go play hard and try to win one for the Gipper if you can. Then all of a sudden, the dude's running the Warren Moon run and shoot. and he looks like a Hall of Famer in one game. That's not good enough for me with Cam Ward. I don't know what he could do to prove to me that he is still a franchise quarterback. for the Tennessee Titans. Look, I'll go back to a Varsity Blues reference. You know, when Bud Kilmer gets fired by his own team and then Lance Harbor comes out injured and decides to call the plays in the second half and they're going no huddle, they're running the oop-de-oop, they've got the trick play with Billy Bob, then they're looking great, they're scoring points. That's what the Titans' offense almost looked like on Sunday. Something completely new and different. Is that sustainable? I mean, if they go out for the next nine games and do the exact same thing, and suddenly running tempo works and all this, I'm willing to hear you out, Cam Ward fans, about him getting a shot to be the quarterback again next year. But again, I'll propose the question. Is this something that's going to happen at the start of next season when the games matter? Because the games don't matter right now. He looks like a guy who, when he's playing loose and has no pressure on him, plays a little bit better than he was before. But what he was playing before set the bar so low that it's easy to go over that bar. 00:11:16 Speaker 1: I can also say, though, there's more pressure on him now than there was in September. In September, they're laying down palm leaves for that dude. There was no question who the franchise guy was. It wasn't Jeffrey Simmons in September.

It was Cam. Now they don't have a guy, right? Yeah. So there's more pressure on him to prove it now. I realize it doesn't matter. It hasn't been about wins or losses, clearly, because they weren't playing like it against the Jets. We were already looking towards 18. Salah's still preaching that same message, by the way, that he was saying in the preseason, right at the end of the preseason, where he says judges at the end of the year. He wants you to judge Cam then. That's all fine and well, but in September, just two months ago, the guy was going into the dome as the guy. And now he's got to prove that he can be the guy. And I don't know if he can prove that 100%, going back to your question, but he can ease some minds if he actually turns a corner here. I'd be curious to know, when did Josh Allen turn a corner with Dable? Because he plays a factor in this, too. It was probably halfway through the second season with him or something, or halfway through the first season. I don't know. But I said earlier in the week, and I don't know the answer to this, but if we saw things open up a bit this past week, going into the bye week, Just because Dable felt like they're finally at a point where they can run a no huddle and get some things going. Because, again, when I say no huddle, the hurry up. Because I don't know how much they practice that in the offseason. They practice it, but in situational ball, right? Like this is opening up a game with stuff. I don't know if he's just opening up a part of the playbook that he finally feels comfortable with calling. And now they're starting to do that because they've adjusted, so to speak, to what Cam does well. 00:13:02 Speaker 2: Or. 00:13:03 Speaker 1: if it's just like, okay, we don't have our best receiver, so we're going to work in gunner and help more and do some things. It may be situational. It may be game plan. Or it might just be, okay, finally we're to a point where I think the rest of the offense can run what Cam does well. I don't know the answer to it. Either way, it looked a ton better, and at least we were entertained. 00:13:23 Speaker 2: Jake Keller in the YouTube chat says, it's not all Cam Ward. Salah's not a good head coach. He's a great coordinator, but terrible head coach. Cam Ward is not good, but he's had two bad head coaches in two years. The Titans organization has failed Ward. I don't disagree with that. 00:13:37 Speaker 1: How many times do we reach coaches before it's the quarterback? 00:13:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also him. I mean, I think all of those things are probably true. It's not an ideal circumstance, but also it's on Cam Ward, too. Again, let's go back to... Did they really turn over a new leaf and stumble into something that is the new offense, the Tennessee Titans, that is going to be easily replicated against good NFL defenses? Unlike what we saw against Cincinnati, which was not a very good defense. Is it something that you can do that with, or was it a one-off? Or was it a two-off? We're going to have the last nine games to see that. Look, I will allow for Brian Dayball to go out there and continue to call a game like this with Cam Ward and for that offense to look like they can move the ball and score points and get out of their own way at times. I'm allowing for that. Let's see it. But ultimately, I will also ask the question, again, if he's great these last nine games, yes, he gets a shot to be the franchise guy next year. You don't go in with 100% certainty, but he gets the shot to do that. But also, I need to see it in games that are meaningful. And people can say it's an NFL game. They're all meaningful. They're not meaningful to the Tennessee Titans right now. This is a team in a locker room that has surrendered. They traded away their best player. They know exactly what their fate is this year because they have not won enough to be relevant to not be just tanking for the top pick in the draft. And that to me is where It's one thing to go out with nothing to lose and play with your hair on fire. It's another thing to deliver when the lights are the brightest, there's pressure on your team and to come through in that moment. He had a big opportunity against a bad Jets team to open the year at home and they failed. And then they came back and they had an opportunity to beat what turns out to be a bad Eagles team before things really went south at home. And they failed in that moment. They had a chance to beat a very average Giants team. And they're driving to score. And all they have to do is just throw the ball away. And they give themselves a chance. And he failed by throwing a dumb interception in that moment. We can see all this success in these last nine games, Hutton, but I will pose the question to everyone. What does it really matter in a nine-game stretch where your organization has already conceded that they are irrelevant and the wins and losses don't matter moving forward? 00:15:59 Speaker 1: Well, I would say wins and losses do not matter. We can hear it from Zarzer and everybody. Winning matters, yes. It doesn't matter for next season right now. Again, I'm going back to the individual performance. This is an individual evaluation over the course of the next nine games. I can hear Sala talk about evaluating this roster. When he says roster, he means ward. And it's been like that since we saw them lose. They moved to 0-5, I think it was, or 0-4. And that's exactly when the presser started talking about evaluating the next 12 games. And that's about Cam. It's about can he build off of good performances? Can a good performance be followed by a good performance? Notice I didn't say great. Can good performances consistently be the production we see from the quarterback? Can we see him step up his play and it be about some other backup that lost the game or some other backup who didn't help win the game? or dropped a pass, because he's had some dropped passes, or dropped a pass instead of being

underthrown, overthrown, thrown behind the receiver, or, I don't know, improved the footwork. Going back to the Salah thing, Salah's a bad head coach. If we're going to judge Salah's overall seasons and record, then four in 25 matters, too. Yes. But also, the fundamentals, the footwork, that can be coaching, but it's also execution. The dude's a pro. He's the number one overall pick. I don't want to treat him like he's a third-round pick here. 00:17:34 Speaker 2: Let's treat him like an NFL quarterback. He's the number one overall pick, which is special. People want to compare him to Will Levis. Will Levis wasn't the number one overall pick. Will Levis was a second-round pick even. Gardner Minshew Hutton just completed an amazing comeback. To beat the Cowboys when he came in the game. And now he's going to be the starter again. Do I think Gardner Minshew is the future of the Arizona Cardinals organization? Ultimately, no. But people that want to come back and say, well, who are you going to get? How can you do better? I can point to 100 examples over the last 5 to 10 years of guys who could come in and do a better job than what we've seen from Cam Ward. It's not impossible. You don't have to just throw your hands in the air and be like, well, we missed on another number one pick, so I guess it's all doom and gloom from here on out. I mean, there are options you can have. Hutton, you laid one out earlier this week. This offseason, you could go all in for Lamar Jackson. I mean, there are veteran options. There are different things that you can do. You could draft another quarterback if you wanted. I wouldn't do that. I don't think that's the way to go right now for this organization, but you could certainly do that if you want to because of these first-round picks you have coming up the next three years. 00:18:43 Speaker 1: It is about, either way, Ward's on the roster next year, I believe that, okay? I'm not trying to say that he's not. But it's about how much confidence do you have in who you're bringing in to pair with him for preseason, and then what your expectations are at the end of it. Like, are you going to the offseason expecting Ward to come out of it where he's not starting week one? Or, because again, it's about the upgrade. Or are you bringing in a caliber that's a notch better than Mitchell Trubisky where you actually have the leeway to, I don't know, make a quarterback change in September if you come out of the gates losing? Because that's when the coach will be fired in week six. Just ask Brian Callahan going into year two. I say all that to mean, like, Arizona's a great example. Arizona's traded away Marvin Harrison Jr. They have their backup quarterback in, and they won a game over Dallas by three with a great second half because the starter didn't play well, and they benched him. But you're right. The final nine games for the Arizona Cardinals, that has no bearing on next year. It doesn't have any bearing on next year. Guys get

reps. and then half the roster will be playing for another roster, the guys that are getting reps right now. And then you're going to improve upon your wide receiving core by getting better receivers than what you have now because you traded away your best that you had drafted because he wasn't working out. and you try to replenish, you don't just rerun the same lineup you had. Just ask last year's Titans and compare that roster to this one. So the whole, like, it's about evaluating players. It's about evaluating one guy. And consistent performances where you show improvement over the new baseline. If this is our floor every week, then Cam Ward's floor needs to be what we just saw last week, not what we've seen in previous weeks this season. 00:20:30 Speaker 2: Or at least the mean. If not the floor, then the average. I'm now comparing everything to that last week performance, and let's get closer to that every single week. And if that happens, then maybe you can actually build some momentum and say, hey, Brian Dayball with Cam Ward has found a little something that we could test drive again next year, and you could see if that could work. That, to me, is the only hope. There is no scenario where Cam Ward is undisputed the guy who, The Titans have their Caleb Williams moving forward. It's not going to happen with what happens in these nine games. And I'll say this in closing on this point. Nothing that can happen would make me say that about Cam Ward. But if they continue these performances, then yeah, there is a scenario where you come back and say, all right, let's give it a go again and see if he can continue to build upon that instead of doing what he did this past season, which was completely reset. after year one into year two. The YouTube chat, by the way, brought up a name that immediately popped to mind also when we were going through scenarios. Go get Kirk Cousins. I mean, you know, there are options out there of guys who are better than serviceable as a starting quarterback, even at this late point in their career. Point being, there are guys you could bring in for the Titans that would be better than what Cam Ward has been. Now, what will he be moving forward? That's what Robert Sala just talked about. That's what we're trying to see what's going to happen next. 00:21:50 Speaker 1: Hey, man, just a name that pops to mind because this is what's going to happen if they just run it back with the coaching staff because this guy's going to get cut. He's going to get released. Daniel Jones. 00:22:00 Speaker 2: Daniel Jones. Catfish Jake says J.J. McCarthy could ultimately be an option too. I mean, there are young guys and veteran guys you could bring in. I don't know if J.J. McCarthy with Cam Ward would be my pick because the youth of McCarthy in the league also. But there are going to be veteran guys. Daniel Jones is a good example. There's going to be veteran guys available that has pretty good starting experience in the league. 00:22:25

Speaker 1: Maybe a little Joe Milton action, depending on what happens in Philly, Chad. 00:22:28 Speaker 2: I can't wait to get to one big thing, Hutton, to go crazy about Bazooka Joe finally getting his opportunity to start in the NFL for the Philadelphia Eagles. Can you imagine if this dude becomes– oh, my gosh, I'm even blanking on the dude's name. Remember the guy for the Giants? Yes. That came in, the Italian quarterback? 00:22:46 Speaker 1: Oh, yes. 00:22:47 Speaker 2: Tommy? 00:22:48 Speaker 1: DeVito. 00:22:49 Speaker 2: Tommy DeVito, thank you. Could he be this year's Tommy DeVito sensation, that he's just dropping 80-yard bombs on people there in Philly? I hope so. I'm going to be rooting on Bazooka Joe Milton this weekend. 00:23:01 Speaker 1: Maybe he's Joe Fagnano. Yeah. 00:23:05 Speaker 2: Do not pronounce the F-A-G. It's not a hard G when you pronounce Fignano, that he wants everyone to clarify that it's not a hard G. 00:23:14 Speaker 1: I wonder if anyone that covered the Naval Academy football program ever asked Figo how to say his last name from a few years ago, Chad. That also was in the preseason. That was one of the ones. 00:23:28 Speaker 2: So first question, can you tell us about Tulsa's offensive line this week and what they look like? And just to clarify, can you pronounce your last name for us, please? One follow-up. 00:23:38 Speaker 1: Please say it aloud into the microphone. Is it like the doctor in Hangover? Is it like the doctor who's paged in Hangover? Or is it French? 00:23:48 Speaker 2: It is amazing that Bradley Cooper said that in one of the most popular comedy films of the last 30 years. And five years after that, probably would have been banished. to the netherworlds of Hollywood for saying that word. But I'm not going to say the word here, but everyone knows the scene of Dr. Paging Doctor. 00:24:08 Speaker 1: Yes. You know what? The former Navy player's last name. If you need to hear it said, just ask Antonio Brown. He's very likely to tell you. 00:24:17 Speaker 2: He gives this award out for the week and for the day, I think. I think it's now a daily award that he hands out if you'd like to follow along on social media. 00:24:26 Speaker 1: Oh, man. Coming up. The award of, I don't know, most invested owner? Is that a good way to say this? Or craziest? 00:24:37 Speaker 2: We're going to go with this question, Hutton, about this owner that everybody's talking about. Dedication or insanity? 00:24:46 Speaker 1: That's going to be the big question. We're going to lay out the case for each with what's happening in Indy. That is straight ahead here on Hutton and Witherow presented by Hard Rock Bet. $ 5 up to $ 500 in no sweat bets. 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Best place to get more information and sign up is at hardrock.bet backslash clay. That's hardrock.bet slash clay. 00:25:52 Speaker 1: Chet, while Robert Sala may be discussing, okay, the next nine games are about the next 10 years for the Tennessee Titans. If I am anyone within the Colts organization right now, I'm thinking, well, the next nine minutes are about the next 24 hours here in Indianapolis with all the changes that they've made to the front office and the ones that are coming. If I'm a coach, I feel like, okay, I'm getting my resume ready for the offseason already. But here is Ursae Gordon, their owner, on the sideline, Chad. And the question would be, is this dedication or is this pure craziness? Where she's on the sideline during the games with a notepad, and now the owner of the organization is on the sidelines for a practice. I'm sure it's not the first time, but man, that notebook, I would love to see the manifesto she can write with that. 00:26:46 Speaker 2: I'd love to know what kind of shoes she's wearing there. Are these like the old school Doc Martin boots that she's got on? This looks like something we'd have in middle school that would have been a real luxury to buy. They don't look very practical. 00:26:58 Speaker 1: Is she wearing Spurs? Are those Spurs coming off the Achilles? What is that? 00:27:01 Speaker 2: Her Spurs jingle jangle and the coaching staff knows to get away because they can hear her approaching them and they run the opposite direction. 00:27:09 Speaker 1: Tis the season. 00:27:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, look, I'm not outfit shaming because, Lord knows, I'm not a fashionista, but I would like to know about the practicality of those shoes she's wearing at practice. I expected some sporty tennis shoes of some sort if she's going to be there walking around at practice, but those were like black boots with Spurs. 00:27:25 Speaker 1: I was. 00:27:27 Speaker 2: Going with the Colts theme on that. Look, here's what I like about Carly or Ursae Gordon. I always want to put the Gordon first. Carly Ursae Gordon. I believe that she is who she projects to be. 00:27:41 Speaker 1: I agree. 00:27:43 Speaker 2: I don't think she's faking this. I don't think that she's trying to project strength or trying to be a bully or or trying to show how powerful she is or anything like that. I think she's

genuinely interested in the business of football. She's legitimately interested in what's going on on the sideline, what's being called, how it's being called, thought process behind that, all these things, right? I've used this example before with Bernie Sanders. I don't agree with Bernie Sanders' politics. But I respect Bernie Sanders because I think he's a genuine oracle. I think he believes what he's saying. I don't think he's repeating lines that's given to him by someone. I don't think that he is arguing something that is indefensible just because he feels like it will curry favor with people for him. I think what he says, he believes. I think Carly Ursae Gordon believes what she is doing is the right thing to do, and she's legitimately interested in every facet of her organization. I cannot fault her for this, okay? Now, would it make me want to go work for her if I'm a top head coaching candidate? Absolutely not. I would not want to go work for her if I had options. If I had an option to go work for a different NFL team with a different owner, I would probably go work for that owner. Is this a turnoff to coaches and GMs and everybody else? Absolutely. I don't think we could talk to any GM or coach and say, boy, I'd really appreciate my female owner being on the sideline the entire game looking over me and my coach's shoulders during everything that's happening. Nobody wants that. But again, it's her team. She can go about it however she wants. I think from a division standpoint, it is a hindrance to the Colts, the way she's doing that. Maybe someone gets to her to explain that, but I don't think she's crazy. I do think she's dedicated, but I think that dedication is costing the Indianapolis Colts organization. 00:29:34 Speaker 1: I was going to say, it could be genuine, right? But is it genuinely her being crazy or genuinely her being dedicated? I think it's a bit of both. But she's so invested. This is OCD, right? This is locked in. I respect it, though, because she knows what she doesn't know, is what I would say. She didn't get the organization to immediately clean house. She would go by what she has gathered on the sidelines versus those she trusts in the organization. Again, there's no doubt that it is a turnoff for a head coach or a general manager, especially the general manager that's going to be taking over that organization. But I would hope as a general manager candidate within the interview process that whatever these notes she has laid out and whatever she has learned and knew enough to go ahead and start this search now and make the move when she did. With the general manager who had been there, what, was it 10 years, eight? I don't know how long it had been. 00:30:41 Speaker 2: Way too long. 00:30:42 Speaker 1: Way too long. 00:30:43 Speaker 2: Way too long. 00:30:43 Speaker 1: Way too long. I mean, yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't showing results whenever J-Rob was fired. 00:30:50 Speaker 2: Stephen A. Smith yesterday was arguing, fire somebody already, do something. And Jeff Saturday was on with him and said, she did. 00:30:57 Speaker 1: She's already fired someone. 00:30:58 Speaker 2: And Stephen A. just responded by screaming louder about how she needs to either get off the sideline or fire somebody. More people are going to be fired. 00:31:06 Speaker 1: I'm curious what she's like next year whenever she has hired someone based on what she has learned the past year and a half. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like she's doing this based on whatever she has learned to this point. And during the hiring process, she's going to have a very deliberate path and job description, I think, of what she wants. Does she then turn things over to the football department? Now, she has done that, though. Like Ballard, he went all in on all these trades. I mean, they went all in on these trades. Sauce Gardner. You know, and everybody re-upping and re-signing Daniel Joe. You know what I'm saying? 00:31:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:31:49 Speaker 1: And the receiving options that they brought in or re-signed this offseason to big money. She let the football department be the football department and make those decisions. So I don't think that was her coming in and saying, okay, do this or do that. But now she's hiring someone to do exactly what she's learned or what maybe the hope would be she's learned what not to do. Right? 00:32:12 Speaker 2: Right. 00:32:13 Speaker 1: Uh, but 100%, that's a question that every candidate is going to ask. Am I in charge of the football decisions? Because ultimately she's the owner, right? But am I in charge of the football decisions? Or is this going to be what the expectation would be? And I would also say like personality matters. I don't know her personality. You know, like if you're just having a conversation with her, can you have a conversation with her like you could have a conversation with Jerry Jones? Or is this like having a conversation with, um, Daniel Snyder. It's a different sit-down chat in an office is what I mean. 00:32:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she seems pretty likable in what I've seen from her and heard from her overall. Again, I don't think this is the way to do business as an NFL owner, but I also give her credit for being true to who she is, and I don't think any of this is fake. I think she legitimately wants to know everything that's going on and wants to be heavily involved in everything. Also, hey, Someone on the YouTube chat says, what happens when she hires a female GM? You know, if she's going to be the one to hire the first ever female GM in the NFL. I mean, it's a possibility. And guess what's going to happen? She'll get crushed for it. She's getting crushed right now. Oh, she won't be crushed for it. I think she'll get destroyed for it. 00:33:28 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think she would be. She would be. You know how the national outlets are owned by the NFL, you know, with all these. She would be. She'll be praised for

it. 00:33:39 Speaker 2: Well, Mina Kimes will praise her, but I think there's going to be a lot of people who will... Let's put it this way. The media won't crush her for it. A lot of the media won't. I think the fans will destroy her for doing that. 00:33:52 Speaker 1: But also, it would be similar to the reaction of what is a coach... It would be like what Coach Dooley told us. More female officials will cut down on the coaches yelling at the refs. Yeah. It would be a different reaction. I agree with you. The reaction would be like, she did what? But it wouldn't be– I don't think it would be mocked. I think it would be like, oh, of course, the NFL made her do this. 00:34:23 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think the NFL. I think it would be Colts fans would be incensed. I don't think they like any of this right now to begin with. But I think her own fan base would be extremely pissed off if the next move was then to hire a female general manager. 00:34:40 Speaker 1: What if she was like, you know what? And they're playing the Cowboys this week. What if I just, you know what? I'm Mrs. Jones. I'm Mrs. Ursae Gordon. I'm the general manager. 00:34:51 Speaker 2: She's got a dinner with Jerry Jones that I've been playing. She says, Jerry, I got one question for you. How do I become the female you? I want to be president, general manager, make all the decisions. Now that would be something. 00:35:04 Speaker 1: Let me say this too. It is dedication because the effort, just the effort alone, it's not a ton of effort to stand on the sideline and take notes. Everyone watching or listening or day-to-day life with a 9-to-5 knows this. But if you're an NFL owner and you have a team worth $ 10 billion, On game day, are you really on the sideline, listening in and doing all that stuff? Or are you up in the suite in luxury, eating your caviar and watching guys go get concussed in CTE? I'm just saying, I would be up in my suite hanging out with a martini and caviar more than I would be down there with a notepad taking notes about what Chris Ballard's doing. 00:35:51 Speaker 2: Well, and it's also, look, if they're successful, nobody... Give a damn about any of this. They're like, look at this. Man, she's really into it. She knows what's going on. Look at those crazy eyes looking at that defensive formation. Everybody likes this, right? 00:36:05 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:36:06 Speaker 2: Everybody's fine with that. Robert Kraft, you know, he's very hands-on and thorough. He's around the team a lot. Well, nobody has a problem with that because Robert Kraft has won a bunch of Super Bowls. 00:36:17 Speaker 1: Right. And runs a good organization and was in the Super Bowl again last year. 00:36:23 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I think this could succeed, but if they're losing, it's never going to be good optics with this. And I just don't think in the interest of attracting the best coaching candidate and the best hires, and I think the strongest coaches in the league, like Mike Tomlin is

not going to put up with that. I don't know that John Harbaugh would sign up for the Colts with the owner looking over his shoulder on the sideline. John Harbaugh wouldn't even fly to meet with the Titans, instead took the Giants job before that because Amy Adams Strunk is the owner of the Titans. And if you're looking at ownership groups, you're going with the Giants over her. 00:36:58 Speaker 1: We've got to talk about that too, about the report from Florio that the reason why Harbaugh called Strunk is because Joe Shane with the Giants, the GM, was trying to call Borgonzi and couldn't get him on the phone because the idea would be that he had already agreed with his buddy, his former roommate, that the trade was going to go down with Chicago, that they had set up Big Jeff to go to Chicago already. There's also. 00:37:29 Speaker 2: By the way, that is malpractice on the part of Mike Borgonzi. 00:37:32 Speaker 1: Well, I don't buy it. I don't buy the fact that he. 00:37:35 Speaker 2: So now if true, it's malpractice is to take every call. 00:37:39 Speaker 1: I totally, totally. What if they offer you three first round picks? I mean, you don't know what they're offering, but that would be why. And it goes back to what we discussed on Monday. But like I said, like, why would you call Amy Strunk? Well, you would call me strong. If Joe Shane couldn't get Borgonzi on the phone, you said, Hey, don't you know the owner? Didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. I've got her number. Let's get her on the phone, please. Like, do your thing. That's when I go above just to be in the mix in the discussion. And, I mean, I hear the response of like, oh, you're not going to get the better offer than what the Titans got from Chicago. You have, I don't know that. It was a historic offer, but, you know, that's also very convenient coming from the trade that's set up. And how is it, it's done in 24 hours, roughly. That can't be the case if the Giants are trying to call the owner, right? Just the whole timeline is just very convenient if it's the inside job. Also, Jared Stillman made a great point. Jeffrey Simmons is apparently not happy with this trade. Stillman was discussing the Titans had this agreement with Stillman. Sorry, with Stillman. They don't have an agreement with Stillman. They kicked him out. 00:38:53 Speaker 2: The agreement with Stillman is that he not set foot on the premises moving forward. That's the agreement they have with him. 00:38:59 Speaker 1: Forgive me, this may be a different report that Stillman was repeating. Again, I'm saying that up front, but that Simmons wasn't going to talk bad about the losing organization and the Titans weren't going to shop Jeffrey Simmons was the agreement. And then, of course, well, did they shop him or did they just trade him within 24 hours? Because we weren't calling around, you know, but it was very conveniently done, wasn't it, over the course of a a day and a half where the night before you're getting an offer and then you have to go to the owner and all of a sudden it's done? For an organization that wasn't going to pick up the phone or listen to the offers? 00:39:35 Speaker 2: Well, and let's just go a step further here. I need to know what the Giants were offering. When John Harbaugh was calling Amy Adam Strunk, what were they prepared to offer? Because if the offer was two first-round picks equal to the Bears, it's better. Of course, because you're going to get the higher pick with the Giants compared to the Bears. So if that's the case and this was like buddy ball going on with Ryan Poles to get him to Chicago, that is a fireable offense to me. 00:40:03 Speaker 1: I don't even know the offer. Were you even answering the phone to hear one? 00:40:10 Speaker 2: Again, yes, of course, that is true. But I'm saying if you find out that they were willing to offer or they called Amy Adams-Strunk and said, we want to do two first-round picks, same as the Bears, and you did not take that offer knowing that it would be a better pick given where the Bears and Giants are going to finish and where they are right now in the standings. That is a fireable offense. 00:40:33 Speaker 1: Totally agree. 00:40:33 Speaker 2: I cannot say this more strongly. If you're playing buddy ball over doing your job and getting the best possible return on a trade, you should be fired ASAP, not after the season. The moment you catch wind of that, that's the reporting I need to see next, is what were the Giants willing to offer? Because if it was just, I'm going to deal with my buddy and not Joe Shane, then you should be fired. 00:40:58 Speaker 1: By the way, they got a great return. I'm not disappointed with the return they received. But if it was two first-round picks in the Giants, it's better. I totally agree with you. And here's the thing. If you get an offer from the Chicago Bears that you're pleased with, you're like, whoa, offer I can't refuse. Wouldn't you pick up the phone and call other teams who had called you, even if they didn't offer, and say, hey, we've got a big offer. Are you interested? And you negotiate this thing up even more. If you negotiate one-on-one, even if you or I are negotiating... We know each other very well. We trust each other. Why does the trust matter here? Because the Titans would not, hypothetically, because I don't know what happened on the scenes here. Hypothetically, the Titans didn't want the idea out that they were shopping Jeffrey Simmons because they had this behind-the-scenes agreement that they would not be trying to trade him. But if you get an offer last minute that just blows you away, oh, we didn't have time to go tell Jeff that we have traded him. Because if the trade doesn't go through, you don't want it back to him that you had done that, even though you said you wouldn't. So if you start calling around, word's going to get around that you're doing that. That would be why you wouldn't do it. But Chad, if I get an offer, I'm calling other

teams to drive the price higher. I mean, that's the point. They apparently didn't even welcome in other offers yet. I mean, again, if one team's willing to do it, why wouldn't another team be willing to do it for him? 100%. 00:42:30 Speaker 2: Someone on the YouTube chat says, should the Titans take calls from Mike Vrabel? 00:42:34 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:42:35 Speaker 2: Take calls from everybody. If somebody's got an offer for you and they want to call and do something, I don't care about the history. I'm not saying say yes to every offer by people who may be better at doing deals than you that could fleece you on a trade, but you take the call from everyone. 00:42:50 Speaker 1: Let's not even talk about the past. Let's talk about right now. Imani Hooker, Tony Pollard. I mean, anyone. And I'm not saying people are calling about Calvin Ridley. I would doubt it because the guy can't catch a pass. 00:43:02 Speaker 2: Well, the Titans are calling other people about Calvin Ridley in their reports. They're actively shopping him and no one wants him. 00:43:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Hey, you want Alante Taylor who we just benched? Would you like to pick up this contract? No, like, you answer the phone on Pollard. That's also what pro football talk said. Florio said, and that's what's happening now with Tony Pollard. They're not answering the phone on Pollard. Why wouldn't you? And again, this is just the reporting here. But it's hard to think. This makes Borgonzi look like an idiot. It does. And if I'm him, I'm going to make sure I clarify 100% certainty publicly that this is not... The perception I want out on myself when I'm in this position at the trade deadline for a losing team and the next nine games matter for the next 10 years, well then go get someone that's going to help you potentially through the draft. I'm a general manager who knows how to draft, so a fourth round pick does matter to this organization because I'm going to identify the talent with my staff. If a fourth-round pick or a third-round pick or a fifth-round pick, I don't care who it is, if you're not bringing back a guy next year, why wouldn't you answer the phone for some compensation over a nine-game stretch where it's about developing Ward more than it is winning football games? Let's be honest here. And if they're not answering the phone on Pollard, which is their best asset right now, or Hooker, that is the perception of malpractice, like you're saying. I am going to make sure that the public and that the owner... I'm going to come out personally and make this public. This is not true. This is me. If you want to call me, they know my number. Ask around. I'm answering the phone. Wouldn't you do the same? Yes. 00:45:02 Speaker 2: And by the way, there's a lot of ways to do this without calling a press conference. You've no reporters. You can leak this information directly. Mike Borgonzi, you know, source says Mike Borgonzi absolutely is willing to take calls. You know, you can

get the word out however you want through a report. The trade deadline's next week. 00:45:18 Speaker 1: Is that right? It's the 10th, I believe. 00:45:20 Speaker 2: The 10th. Okay. So coming up here soon. Reports are out now that Diana Rossini is going to be back at the trade deadline. That she has signed on with somebody and she's telling people around the league that in a week she is going to be back working this. I say that to say that There's going to be a lot of people looking for scoop and looking for big stories. You can get that side of the story out if you're Mike Barganzi, where you don't look like you have egg on your face because you're unwilling to take phone calls. And I'm with you on this whole, they're not taking calls on Tony Pollard. Take every possible call. That doesn't mean trade him away if you don't get what you want, but you take every single call. 00:46:00 Speaker 1: What else is he doing this time of year? I mean, he's scouting college talent. But, I mean, the hay's in the barn once you get to training camp, man. You draft and the off-season acquisition period's over. You're preparing for next year. But this is how you prepare for next year. Yeah. And also, I'm just laughing at myself as you mentioned Rossini. I'm thinking, the first guest on my podcast, I welcome in Titans general manager Mike Borgonzi. 00:46:23 Speaker 2: Mike Borgonzi would like to clarify some things that have been reported about him that are not true. And Diana Rossini has him on. I just thought about Rossini because I'm thinking she's going to have some big trade to break, I feel like, with the timing of it. 00:46:34 Speaker 1: Or she's going to come out of the gates firing on all cylinders with some stories. If it is Patriots news, that's the teabag right there. 00:46:44 Speaker 2: But I'm with you. If you're Borgonzi, get the word out that this is not true. Because if it's true... There's some big questions about your job and the job you're doing and whether or not you're doing it to the best of your ability if you're not taking every single phone call. 00:46:57 Speaker 1: And I don't– I mean, he's not that guy. I mean, he's from the Kansas City thread. He's threaded through that, right? Like that fabric is the Chiefs over his 16 or 17 years. He's taking phone calls. 00:47:14 Speaker 2: Well, here's the only thing that I would say. Because what Wes in the chat says, are we positive Barganzi is smart enough to begin with? He has four wins through 25 games, and he is mandated by ownership on who to hire, etc. Here's what I would say about the only thing that I would think would lead someone to doing this, where you're only doing business with one guy in one place. It's because you feel like ownership is out on you. You see the writing on the wall. You know you're going to get fired. You want to do a deal with somebody that's going to scratch your back, that's going to help you out. If there is a behind-the-scenes thing that Ryan Poles, my buddy, is

definitely going to hire me, these things can be done. There's a lot of this that goes on in every business, but I know this guy is going to hire me the moment she fires me because I know the writing's on the wall and I'm going to get fired. I will do a deal with the Bears and the Bears only. because that solidifies my employment, and that's an organization I want to work with ultimately anyways, and that gets me there as opposed to dealing with Joe Shane, who's not going to offer me a job this offseason when I get fired here. Again, I don't know that. I'm just giving you the hypothetical of why someone would not fully do their job, the current job that they're doing. That would be the reason. 00:48:31 Speaker 1: But if I get fired as a general manager, I'm like J-Rob, who gets $ 4. 5 million a year to not do anything. Or you're offset by working. Or you're Vrabel and you go be the offensive line assistant in Cleveland. Again, whatever. I think it would be this, though, if we're just thinking about why you do the trade the way they did it. Because it just so happens that it's the best deal that we've ever seen in return for a defensive tackle in the history of the NFL. That's great pub for him. It looks great. And it is, by the way. That's a great return, what they received. They frame it like it's based on the Miles Garrick trade. They get that out through Schefter and through Breer. And the plan that has been laid out that he was a part of, by the way, where... just last year, Simmons is a crucial part of this. You've got the extension. You've got all this. And now you're trading him. Well, that's how you save your gig is you flip it into this new plan. You get the return. And there was also a report, Chad, I think it was Breer, that said last Tuesday that Go figure. The Titans brass, they get into this big meeting. They conduct this big study about what's the best way to roll into and rebuild this roster. And the study comes back, and they all tend to agree, and Borgonzi, I guess, does too, and the acquiesce, that the best way is to flip your best asset and get the best possible picks and move forward with draft picks. And then within 24 hours, just so happens, based on the timelines, that polls calls Borghansi. Because remember, they weren't calling teams. That's what they said. That polls calls Borghansi after they have this study. 00:50:17 Speaker 2: Also, it took a study to tell you that? 00:50:20 Speaker 1: That sounds like Burke, doesn't it? 00:50:22 Speaker 2: A study? 00:50:23 Speaker 1: I mean... No, no, no, no. Like they got into a meeting, a little conference room. 00:50:27 Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. But like, we're going to have a conference and a study done. And then they come up with, hey guys, the best way to move forward is... is to trade your best assets that are a little bit older to get draft capital. This has been a practice throughout the history of sports. 00:50:41 Speaker 1: I know. Again, I'm dumbing it down and

paraphrasing a bit. But the way it's worded is different in Breer's deal. But they got into this room and they powwowed. And they came up with this, oh, returns are, this is the new path. Again, you're selling the study and the path and the plan. moving forward with two draft picks and all this stuff because there's a little shine with the return. Oh, it's the greatest return we've ever seen at the position. The guy knows what he's doing. Again, I'm throwing out the reason why we saw it play out the way we did publicly in the media. All of a sudden, they're going to go against the plan they had because the new results are we're trying to get this return in. Man, What's the coincidence that a general manager calls up with the greatest offer we've ever seen, just blew us away, and the next morning I've got to call my owner and say, hey, and she says, you know what? You're in charge of football decisions. You make the call. Well, I guess I'm going to have to trade him, even though we said we weren't going to shop him. Again, if that all lines up, that is job security and trying to find your parachute. and throwing everyone else against the wind and trying to survive this thing. It's awful. 00:51:55 Speaker 2: I remember the guy who once called into our old radio show and asked us, have you guys ever heard of Amelia Earhart? I see the Titans hiring a bunch of people just like that guy. 00:52:06 Speaker 1: We were. 00:52:07 Speaker 2: They get into a conference room, like, all right, guys, brainstorm session. No bad ideas. What do you think? Burke Nihill's at the end of the conference table saying, let's go. Let's brainstorm right now. And someone raises their hand in and said, guys, I don't know if you've heard– of trading away veteran players for draft picks. But this is one way that you can solidify the future and infuse your roster with younger players if you do that. That's what I feel like was going on in this meeting that's being reported on. 00:52:37 Speaker 1: This is so crazy. I remember exactly where we were when that caller called in. We were at that hot dog place where you ate like 30 miniature hot dogs. 00:52:47 Speaker 2: Really? Yeah. I remember also talking about the Penn State story that day. 00:52:51 Speaker 1: It was the Penn State story, and then this guy called in because we were all fired up over all these callers. And this guy called in. Have you guys ever heard of Amelia Earhart? And Paul just went crazy. It was a great show. It was a fun show because you were also doing the challenge that same day. We were on location. I forget the name of the place, but, man, it was. 00:53:10 Speaker 2: It was Nashville. 00:53:13 Speaker 1: Nashville Delicatessen. 00:53:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had one in Cool Springs that we were at. What a trip down memory lane. Was that also the day of the Do What call? 00:53:20 Speaker 1: Yes. Do What? 00:53:21 Speaker 2: That was a famous day in show history, just some random day in November probably. But I feel like Paul went off on the Do What that day also. 00:53:28 Speaker 1: Do What? Do What? Do What? 00:53:30 Speaker 2: Oh, my God. 00:53:30 Speaker 1: Do What? 00:53:31 Speaker 2: Hang up. Hang up on this guy. I refused to. 00:53:33 Speaker 1: But no, let him talk. 00:53:34 Speaker 2: Do What? 00:53:35 Speaker 1: Do What? Do What? 00:53:38 Speaker 2: It was like the scene in Pulp Fiction where Samuel L. Jackson is saying, say what again? Do they speak English and what? When he keeps saying, say what one more damn time. Amazing. 00:53:47 Speaker 1: If only those archives existed now. Lost to the ether. Oh, no. 00:53:51 Speaker 2: The moment we left, those things were putting an incinerator somewhere. I think they took all the hard drives out and just tossed them into a fire somewhere. JT wasn't still there when we left, was he? Were you already gone, JT, when we left the zone? You don't remember when we were there? Oh, okay. 00:54:07 Speaker 1: He's not allowed to say, I guess. I don't remember. 00:54:10 Speaker 2: His NDA foreclosed him from getting rid of all of our information. 00:54:14 Speaker 1: We're not talking bad. We can't find out when that date was of the do what call. 00:54:19 Speaker 2: A non-disparagement agreement prevents you from disparaging. It doesn't prevent you from telling the truth. That's the thing about disparagement. 00:54:27 Speaker 1: I'm now going deeper than this. JT was there, and he's the one who had to delete the files. 00:54:32 Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. There's no doubt. If he was still there, he was the one that did it. Did you delete the files, JT? JT was the one who knew how to do things. 00:54:38 Speaker 1: Did you nuke us? 00:54:43 Speaker 2: Delete all from the files. 00:54:46 Speaker 1: Yeah. Amazing. Gone forever. You could see the shadows. It's like a nuke goes off, and you see the shadows against the wall. You could see the copy file of what it was called, but you can't open it. 00:54:58 Speaker 2: I was thinking on my drive home that day when we gave a quick sign off, I'm like, how quickly will JT delete every clip, every soundbite? Like, is it already done? How quickly? I'm driving past the airport, headed home. I'm headed towards Hermitage. And I'm like, is it done now? Is it done now? I remember I went to go get something to eat randomly by myself that day just to process things. And I'm like, has JT already deleted the do what call, the Amelia Earhart. 00:55:24 Speaker 1: Call, everything? 00:55:26 Speaker 2: Man, oh, man, if we could find some of that stuff, that would be incredible to play. 00:55:30 Speaker 1: Well, because at the time. 00:55:31 Speaker 2: Long time. Old heads of this show, the two of us, will know exactly what we're talking about. To any new audience members, we'll just tell you that taking calls back in the day was remarkable with some of the interactions you would have with the public. It never disappointed. It was always great. 00:55:50 Speaker 1: What I've noticed, and

JT, chime in on this. the callers for sports talk radio now are now just texters, right? Like it's, it's more of a text line that it is. 00:56:00 Speaker 2: JT doesn't know. He hadn't been around sports talk radio in a while. 00:56:03 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think like he didn't, he stayed longer than we did though. 00:56:06 Speaker 2: Right. 00:56:07 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think, yeah, it's a, it was a lot of texting, a lot of phone calls. I mean, but yeah, the phone, the people, the people that called him. Like what happened to hair metal Henry, like Isaiah and Indy? I have no idea. 00:56:20 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:56:20 Speaker 1: Where's Hosie? Yeah. G Money was a good one who called in a lot with some good takes. Yeah, those people. All these. Who am I thinking of? Dixie. Oh, gosh. 00:56:31 Speaker 2: Dixie who got banned. 00:56:33 Speaker 1: Right. 00:56:33 Speaker 2: Didn't she not settle a bet with Paul at some point? So Paul banned her from calling into the show until she paid up on a bet of some sort. 00:56:40 Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't even hear them on other shows is what I'm saying. 00:56:43 Speaker 2: No. They left us. 00:56:46 Speaker 1: Dr. 00:56:46 Speaker 2: Detroit. 00:56:47 Speaker 1: I mean, some of those people recently passed away. R.I.P. R.I.P. 00:56:51 Speaker 2: To a man who I'm pretty sure was going to kill us at one point. 00:56:54 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:56:54 Speaker 2: When we were at a sports bar somewhere, he was mad about something and kept confronting all of us about something. I told Hutton, it was a Golden State Warriors playoff watch party. We were at it. Dr. Detroit showed up in his Red Wings jersey, and I was sure. 00:57:09 Speaker 1: I mean. 00:57:10 Speaker 2: Pat McAfee's been pretty scared lately. I was Pat McAfee that night. I was like, Hutton, let's get out the back exit here. I'm not sure about this guy. We had Kirby with his switchblade in his pocket. Or actually in his shoe. But what you're telling me, JT, is he died before us, right? Dr. Detroit? 00:57:25 Speaker 1: Yeah, he is RIP of what I heard. Just making sure. 00:57:30 Speaker 2: I'm not celebrating that news, by the way. Just wanted to clarify that me talking about this wasn't going to have any bad ramifications. 00:57:37 Speaker 1: That's good. By the way, Chad, you know it's bad. 00:57:39 Speaker 2: His son right now is sharpening a blade like Rambo. Watching our show. It's like, that son of a bitch Withrow. Dared to bring up my father's name, Dr. 00:57:49 Speaker 1: Detroit. 00:57:49 Speaker 2: Don't even know his real name. And now I'm going to kill him. It'll be a bloodline. 00:57:54 Speaker 1: It's like the Sandler movie, but with the names on the wall. 00:57:59 Speaker 2: People to kill. 00:57:59 Speaker 1: On the list. 00:58:00 Speaker 2: Steve Buscemi, who then puts lipstick on. And puts his feet up in the air after he crosses off someone else to kill? 00:58:06 Speaker 1: To tie it back in, just to Indy and Nashville, you know you're off the rails and you're going the wrong direction as an organization if the Titans have lost Isaiah and Indy as a fan. If he just is so fed up he doesn't even bother calling to any radio station, you know you've really lost your fan base. 00:58:27 Speaker 2: The enemy to any organization, any team, program, anything, is not.... 00:58:33 Speaker 1: Or anger. 00:58:34 Speaker 2: The biggest enemy is apathy. It's apathy within a fan base. That is always the biggest enemy. And we have absolutely reached the point of apathy with the Tennessee Titans. I think it's still at the point of anger with the Colts. Tying us all back in with Carly Ursae Gordon. I think it's still anger with the Colts organization right now and not apathy. The Titans have far passed the threshold of apathy. They're out of anger and it's just put your hands up in the air. Who knows what anyone can do anymore? 00:59:04 Speaker 1: Or you're one of the Cam Glam Squad or whatever. Oh, Cam, love you, Cam. Speaking of apathy, is it apathy for a certain head coach at Colorado? Oh, yeah. We'll discuss straight ahead here on Hutton & Withrow presented by Hard Rock Bet.