Fuld transskription af NFL Rules Analyst Mike Pereira weighs in on officiating and why NFL is reaching a crisis point

relate that to, you know, mostly people false starts and defense offsides and delay of games, but that's not, that's part of the equation for the added number of penalties. But, you know, to me, you're seeing player protection fouls go a little bit too far here. And when you cite a couple of the roughing the passer calls in the, in the green Bay Detroit game, when you think about the Rams game a couple of weeks ago on the hit on a defenseless player at a key point in the game, which put Arizona in line to kick the field goal, to win the game. And that's not a foul. So are we, are we, are, is there some messages being sent out, which I don't think there is, but are there messages being say out at all costs, we've got to protect the players, the old when in doubt throw, which we got away from, you know, when in doubt is a terrible thing to tell officials. So when in doubt, call the foul, no, when in doubt, don't call the foul, either be right or be wrong. But I just, I don't know, but to me it started out with a tremendous amount of penalties in the first four weeks, then leveled off a bit, but then we just seemed to have the breakout again. And I think, John, and I'm just rambling, but I think the league is trying to curtail it. I mean, they did send out a memo to the officials saying, okay, listen, make them big. They were concerned with the– with the number of fouls, they should make them big. And so they're indicating there's some concern, but it doesn't seem to be having an effect. Yeah. 00:04:12 Speaker 1: Well, one of the, Mike, one of the things, and Mike Perez Jonas from Fox, and we're obviously, we're talking about the officials here on the sports leader. You, we would always talk to you about at the beginning of the year, what is being emphasized? What are points of emphasis? And it seems like to me over the last couple of weeks, uh, It's always been like this, and I try to explain it to people. Look, they don't want the leading man of the movie to be out of the movie. They don't shoot him in the beginning. So they want the starting quarterbacks in there. 00:04:37 Speaker 2: I get it. 00:04:37 Speaker 1: But is there a re-emphasis, if that's even something, of protecting the quarterbacks even more than they have? Because like you said, it's the Packers game. I get that. But it just seems like there's a lot of calls right now that are over protection of the quarterback. 00:04:53 Speaker 2: I think when you see, like, all of a sudden you look and you see the Packers that have been called for twice as many roughing the passer penalties than anybody in the league, you know, you start to look and say, is there a reason for that? Are they more aggressive with the quarterback? And I haven't seen that. I mean, obviously they were called twice for them this week. And, you know, I think Dean Blandino actually addressed it right when he said that's the teaching technique. where you didn't hit the head or neck area and you took him to the ground, but you turned to the side and landed on the ground. And then it got called for, um, roughing the passer, which is not. And I don't think, I think the league is beyond by saying we will forgive these, you know, we will forgive them because we want to protect the quarterback. And we understand that, right, John. I mean, because maybe, maybe other than the 49ers who have Mac Jones backing them up, there's not a lot of great backup quarterbacks in this league. And so, uh, The game is a lot better with the starting quarterback, but I don't know. I think they have to look at this week, and I'm not in the inner circle there, but they have to look at this week and say, you know, why? Is it because there was a young referee that had the Green Bay and Detroit game? Is it the fact that they've opened it up to the umpire now, that the umpire can call roughing the passer? since they moved them into the offensive backfield, which I was never for, because now you're adding a second player's judgment, you know, to me, that's the referee's primary call. It's what he makes a living on. And I don't think that the umpire is qualified is uniquely at least qualified to make that call. Is that part of the issue? I don't know, but I know one thing, the league can't be happy. Fans aren't happy. I'm not happy because I know these guys and love these guys. And I hate to see him have these issues and make these kinds of mistakes, but you know, you've got to work somehow to make this a little bit better and figure out where is the breakdown. I mean, as simple as saying, do we have too many people that are training? I mean, they got so many people back in New York, you know, are, are, are there consistent training coming from all of the supervisors? I think they're, better off downfield and, and, you know, and then you look and you say with the downfield training, then you look and say, okay, well, who's, who's one of the main referee trainer? Uh, let's see, let's go to CBS, Gene Steratore. Wait a minute. We've got the, we got the CBS rules analyst as a referee trainer. Well, geez, I've done. I want a job for God's sakes. I want a job to be the, line of scrimmage trainers, something, you know, it's just, they got so many people involved in the process is maybe that it, I don't know. I don't have the answer, but if it doesn't settle down in another week or two, I just can't believe that the competition committee is going to be happy to sit back and watch this because it's just, it's too much in the forefront of the news. 00:08:11 Speaker 1: It's always great to talk to Mike Pereira. He's the former vice president officiating in the National Football League. And of course, you see him on Fox and you're almost like a police officer. Like we only see Mike when there's a problem. You know, it's like, oh, let's go. Let's go ask Mike about it. It's like, oh, you know. So in terms of, and I don't know if you have this stat, so I don't want to put you on the spot like this, but as

you said at the beginning, are they calling more? Because again, this is just my seeming, and I should look up these numbers before I ask this question, but are there more? Because it just seems like there's always a flag. It seems like there's more, and look, I know nothing, but I always think to myself, if it's not. 00:08:47 Speaker 1: Right in the middle of the player. It has nothing to do with the play. Should you call a flag? I don't know what they teach you there, but it's like, I just see so many and there's already so many stoppages in play. And I don't know if they take into account, like, is this a watchable product? Because people hate flags. 00:09:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know people hate referees. I spoke to, I spoke to, I spoke to a group. I went to San Diego and spoke to a group of judges, actually 150 judges in San Diego on Friday, this past Friday. And it's like, what are you doing here? Why are you talking to us? Why is a football referee talking to us? And I said, because you know what? We have a lot of things in common. Everybody hates us. Half of the people think we've made a bad decision. I mean, referees have to deal with two teams and two coaches. Well, you have two teams and coaches, the plaintiffs, the defendants, and then they each have a coach, the attorney. And I'm sure sometimes you have wanted to tell the attorneys that that coach to stick it up his butt, you know, we have a lot of similarities here and, and, um, you know, I don't, the, the, the number of penalties are really not up that much might be maybe one and a half, a game or so, which doesn't seem like much. But it is one and a half a game. It's just the big calls that just seem up. The fact that through week four, I think there was 18 touchdowns taken off the board by penalty. I can't tell you. I mean, I looked at stats through– they were through week four and they called them high impact misses, high impact misses, which normally means you take away a change of possession or you take away a score. High impact misses, they listed one. So, you know, you look at that and at least on how they're grading it, they're not seeing that as mistakes being made. And then do you go, Well, okay. Well, if there's two more penalties a game, are they seeing more? Are they getting better? I mean, are they seeing more and making more correct calls? I don't, I, we go back to my old statement from many, many moons ago. And I've really kind of felt like this, that officiating is part art and part science. And, you know, part science is everything is black and white and you have to call everything that black is black and white art. is realizing what you don't have to call and because it's not going to have any impact in the play at all. So game flow becomes equally as important, as important, you know, as the fouls that are being called the, the science part. So I don't, I don't know if we're headed there as a group or headed there as a game. But again, I mean, I, are we having too

much turnover? Are we having too much turnover in the officiating ranks? Everybody say you never find it, fire anybody. Well, Sorry, that's not true. Look at the numbers. You know, are they expanding? They've got a bench now, extra officials. They are beginning to put officials, those that are struggling at least, into the spring leagues, the UFL. Good things are happening, but the results don't really have seemed to come to fruition yet. 00:12:02 Speaker 1: My prayer is shown as from Fox. I think you bring up a great point because you're right. As you were saying that, I was thinking back in my mind, like you said, the Cardinals game, you know, a roughing the passer is 15 yards. It's maybe, you know, it's those penalties that are, that are being called more than ever. I don't know what your thought is on Mike Florio. He's, he's definitely not a favorite in the Bay area. And I certainly don't want to start a fight with, with you and Mike Florio, but he says that the league needs to tear down the current status quo. There's a piece of, he actually said this on a show, a tear down the current status quo of NFL officiated and completely re-imagine the process of applying the rules in football at the professional level. Is it that dire? that they he's saying start over i wouldn't say that right i mean i. 00:12:43 Speaker 2: I read it too um start over and do what i don't you can't come up with a new plan if you really don't have an issue his thing is to have an eye in the sky excuse me john which i don't necessarily disagree with and i think they're getting close to the to that with these expedited reviews and video assists but Again, where is the problem? Where do you tear it down? Is it the group of officials on the field? Is it the supervisors? Look, I'll tell you, I've been through both. It is so hard on the field. Everything is so fast. And it's only gotten a lot faster since I got off the field in 1997, my last year. And then you look at the internal pressures, the internal pressures for the job as the head of officiating, although I'm not even sure who that is nowadays. But that job is enormously difficult with the pressures that come from the coaches and the general managers, and even your own people in the league, the commissioner and the competition committee also. It's extremely tough. And I don't have the answer, a complete breakdown. No, I was an advocate and have been for a long time and put this report on Ray Anderson's desk. It was the head of football operations at the time and Roger Goodell's desk. And it was the future of officiating. And I did believe that there should have been a, or there should be, because I still believe it, there should be an officiating institute somewhere in the middle of the country. Maybe you're hated Dallas. Maybe that's the place to put it. But all 17 referees have to go there every week, all week long. It's no going home. They're going to make the 17 referees full-time so that they hear consistent messages all the time, that they are involved with every part of the decision-making that's within the officiating department. They assist in the new rules. They go to the clubs in the off-season a lot. They become... full-time because I believe this, that the referee, and I've always believed this, and I don't think any referee will tell you different. The referee is the leader of the crew. He is the one that gives the messagings to the other six members of his crew. And I'm not sure they're all getting consistent messages. They didn't with me. I will tell you that because I was kind of understaffed maybe. And so I don't think the messages were getting out as they should. And hindsight is 50-50, and I do it a little bit differently now. But I do think the biggest step that we could take in officiating right now is after this week, after this week that we just had, they don't go home to San Jose, California. They don't go home to Austin, Texas. They don't go home to Pittsburgh. The referees, the 17 referees go right to Dallas or Kansas City or whatever. And they study all the video of all the games together as a unit. So they see everything the same way. So if I was Florio and I had a specific idea in mind, that would be the one because you're not going to get full-time officials, everyone. It's not worth it. It's not practical. It's not going to help. But to me, if you make those 17 white hat guys, the guys that turn around, turn on the microphone and and make the announcements, if you get those people involved in the leadership of officiating, then I think you have a better chance to change things. And I think the committee also maybe needs to look and say, can we factor in common sense again and figure out how we can make the game flow a little bit better. 00:16:38 Speaker 1: That was so good. I was just I was sitting there. No, I was Mike. I was sitting there mesmerized by it because what you just said there at the end where it's like, get together and let's be consistent. I think that's the number one thing. And I think officials get way too much grief because fans love their players and they don't want to get on their coach and they have the jersey of the player. And so the easy guy is the zebra. That's the low hanging fruit. So they get on him. But what you just said is the exact thing. And, you know, if you're not to reimagine it, but like you said, like after the games, do they is that all sent out to all the officials to whatever job they do and say, look, guys. Let's get on the same page here. Again, not that they don't know the rules, but how it should be interpreted. So, in other words, this is roughing the passer. 00:17:20 Speaker 2: This isn't. 00:17:21 Speaker 1: This is, you know, a penalty like the Cardinals-Rams game. Does that all get sent out and say, guys, you know, these are high-profile plays. That is not a personal foul. I mean, does that happen after the game when they get on the same page? 00:17:34 Speaker 2: It does

get sent out, but it's, you know– And this could be another thing where I go on for 30 minutes and my wife would say, like everybody else said, shut your mouth. You're talking too much, you know, but I think they I think they get it. But it's more their individual calls, you know. Yeah. Some are going to get it in a mid to mid season meeting. They're going to put up, you know, plays for all the. the referees to look at. But they don't do that weekly? 00:18:02 Speaker 1: They don't do that weekly? 00:18:03 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, they have access. They have access to go online and see them if they so choose. 00:18:09 Speaker 1: But the league doesn't pick out plays and say, because it sounds to me a little bit like. 00:18:13 Speaker 2: Well, they pick out plays. I mean, I used to do that, pick out plays. Sure, they get what they call training tapes. 00:18:19 Speaker 1: I don't mean to interrupt, but what I'm saying is it sounds when you're talking there that. 00:18:21 Speaker 2: It's like umpires– Well, then don't interrupt me, damn it. 00:18:23 Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry. I won't– I will never do it again. But the one thing is when you're saying that, it sounds like umpires who determine what the strike zone is and then they bring in the electronics because it's not open to interpretation, right? It's written down. This is what– now, you and I have talked about this a million times in the past. It's up to interpretation. There's a lot of rules like that in the league, and I understand that. But is there a way that they can at least be consistent? Because I think that's where the frustration comes in, right? It's not consistent? 00:18:50 Speaker 2: Well, that's the frustration with the coaches and everybody, and the frustration even with people like me. I mean, you see different things like formations, and you see some crews call a tackle for being a little bit off the line of scrimmage, and then others don't. And then you see something called in the first quarter, and then it's not called in the fourth. I mean, a coach would tell you, I think every one of the coaches would say, consistency is the issue. Just give me consistency. But it's hard because you're dealing with 120 some odd individuals who, and some are better than others. I mean, they're better. They see more and they see it slower. And it's a little bit, if you had everyone that had the same abilities and then you might be able to pull something off like that. But it's really hard to do because everything happens so fast. But I remember Roger saying to me, Goodell saying to me, you know, is that, you know, you look at things and you you go through and say hey hey we've we've had a pretty good two weeks here well no don't say that to roger he said well then get better you know but we've we've always got to try to get better we always got to try to be perfect and um and and i and i think that's the The right approach. There's too much invested now. And, you know, with everything that's opened up and I just think it's hard. I mean, I'm going to wait for some day for you to call me after a week where the storyline and all the media is. hey, the officials had a good week this week. 00:20:22 Speaker 1: I'll never call you. I'll never call you then. Like when the 49ers... No. 00:20:31 Speaker 2: Go ahead. I mean, here I thought you were going to ask me about, well, the... The 49er substitution issue when Atlanta substituted in the huddle. 00:20:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, come on. They should have been able to substitute there. What was the deal? Why didn't the official hang the ball? 00:20:45 Speaker 2: You got to wait. That's an unusual situation only because if there's no sense of a hurry up, so if you substitute in the huddle, directly into the huddle, you don't worry about it, okay, because it's not an issue. But also you do worry about it if you substitute into the huddle and then you break quickly and run to the line of scrimmage. Then you've got to go scurry back and do a matchup. But I think there's no time thing. It doesn't say three seconds. It doesn't say one second. It's just if they go into the huddle and then they break and go to the line of scrimmage. Look, they try to keep you from playing games with substitutions, and that's what that was. And so I think Kyle was right to be upset about that. I don't know what he's been told by the league, but to me, that was one you want to get stopped. And then, then, you know, then you look at the catch and the end zone, the out of bounds that the ball came loose and all those things. And, um, but you know, I will say this in all seriousness, um, I really like you and I love KNBR and, um, I don't care if I don't get a single damn bottle of Tito's all year long. Anytime, anytime you want to, Call and check in with me and have a little fun. I'm game. I'm game. 00:21:57 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. It's the best. I, I, I belong. I know this is weird. I belong to this, to a vodka club. As funny as that is, I got to get your address. I got, I'm going to send you some vodka because this is so good. And I, I want, I want you to feel good because we've been talking for years and everybody gets on you and they used to, you know, send you stuff and you get mad at you. There's a guy right now from the four Oh 80 says, Oh, Absolute gold. This is incredible insight from Mike Pereira. This is the interview of the week on a Tuesday. Incredible. The whole text line is full of people loving you, man. That's unusual. So I just want to make sure you know that the people love you. They're just mad. 00:22:32 Speaker 2: But I'm a typical official. I feel under the gun. He just told me I'm the interview of the week. And for God's sake, it's 11 o'clock on Tuesday. 00:22:46 Speaker 1: People don't expect much out of this show you know it is it might be the interview of the year you know i mean who knows no this is great stuff man i i got vodka coming your way you give tim your your number i gotta your address i gotta get i gotta get some to you everybody loves when you come on i know that on sundays and maybe even saturdays they get mad at you but uh But we love having you on. And the only thing I care about is that you're feeling good. Everything good? Back's good? 00:23:09 Speaker 2: Your health is good? We were just talking about that last night. It's actually three years ago in a week when I had my back surgery. And when I went from not being able to walk and not being able to do my job, having to miss a whole year of my job at Fox, I went from that to surgery in San Francisco. My gosh, Dr. Sigurd Bervin, who then was with UCSF, Um, took such good care of me and, you know, now I'm back to hitting the ball about two 10 on the golf course and, and, uh, and getting in that range where I think I'm going to, I think I'm going to get close to breaking 80 again. And, um, I just, I feel, I feel great and I feel so appreciative of everything that around that is around me, including this ocean now to make you feel bad. In Southern California that I'm looking at the waves right here in the Manhattan Beach. So my life is wonderful. I'm lucky and I appreciate every second of it. Appreciate you. Appreciate the fans. Appreciate the players and love the officials. I just am sad that they're going through this. 00:24:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally get it. You're so great. Like I said, the text line is just full. Mike is the man. Mike is a legend. 209 legend. See, people love you now that you explained everything. They feel better. 00:24:31 Speaker 2: My hometown. My hometown. 209 legend. Yeah. 00:24:36 Speaker 1: Mike, thank you so much. Enjoy the ocean. Enjoy the time. I love watching you on the weekends, even if it's just, you know, like I said, you're like a police officer. It's like, oh, here comes the bad. They got to talk to Pereira. But you're the best. Thanks for making the time. I'm glad your health is great. And we'll talk to you soon. 00:24:50 Speaker 2: You got it, John.