Fuld transskription af National Intelligence Coordinating Committee, Dr Ntandazo Sifolo was Thursday's witness at the Madlanga Commission of Inquiry

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Let's walk the. 00:00:04 Speaker 2: Talk. 00:00:05 Speaker 3: 7.02. 00:00:05 Speaker 2: 21 minutes after 3 o'clock, you'd remember that acting coordinator of the National Intelligence Coordinating Committee, Dr. Ndandazo Sifolo, was at the Matlanga Commission, appeared at the Matlanga Commission, I should say, and had warned that media freedom must not come at the expense of national security. Sifolo has highlighted the delicate balance between media freedom and the need to protect National Security emphasised that media's responsibility to inform the public without compromising state security, which right is more important. Joining us to give us more insight on this appearance is Tolo Tsoku, EWN reporter. Tolo, thanks for joining us. Welcome to the show. Good afternoon. 00:00:48 Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Thabo. Thank you so much for having me. 00:00:50 Speaker 2: We remember that Sefoloh had initially sought to testify behind closed doors. He's raising this very delicate balance between national security and media freedom. What else did he say on the subject? 00:01:02 Speaker 1: That's correct. In actual fact, Dr. Sefora has made some very, very explosive revelations here at the commission. In fact, he has spoken about the problematic conduct of the IGI as well as IDAC. I mean, he has spoken about how the IGI was releasing reports, rather giving people, members of the public, members of the media, reports that were classified. I mean, he's also spoken about about how they picked up from one specific, one person that really posts a lot on social media. This is Patricia Machel. And they picked up that she actually had these reports because when she would post on social media, she would post information that nobody else would have but the IGI. Just take a listen to how Dr. Cifalo says they picked up on those wrongdoings from the IGI and Patricia Machel. 00:01:55 Speaker 3: It lists a number of people and then puts a wrong person there, Brigadier Fanfuren. There was never Brigadier Fanfuren in the list of the people that were arrested on that day. But where was Brigadier Fanfuren? Brigadier Fanfuren is in the IG's report, is the one who's recommended to be arrested as well for the matters that are found in the report. From the intelligence reading, then you then get to say, it looks like this person was given a brief, but when it was time for them to publish things, did not publish the right thing, because on that day, there was never Brigadier Fanfuren who was arrested on that day. It was the other ones that were arrested. And then, of course, there is the attribution there to a parliamentary person that Fidel Adams. 00:02:41 Speaker 2: We did it. 00:02:41 Speaker 3: So it shows that this is a coordinated effort to ensure that something is happening. 00:02:49 Speaker 2: So he was very hesitant, especially to appear before the commission in full view of the cameras. But that also didn't stop him from revealing some other sensitive material and mentioning that if there was no content monitoring, South Africa would be more in danger. 00:03:09 Speaker 1: No, that's correct. In actual fact, Dr. Asifolu, when he was just concluding his testimony now for public hearings, he actually said, had Nikok's brother not taken over these operations, the country will be gone. He actually speaks also about how they briefed President Ramaphosa just six days about the infiltration of... crime syndicates within the criminal justice system. And we do know that on the 6th of July, then that's when Ndantam Kwanazi had that famous briefing. But he also says, relating to that specific briefing, Thabo, is that this briefing was not an effort, the effort of just one individual. So it seems as possibly a lot of high-ranking officials actually knew what was coming on. 00:03:51 Speaker 3: The 6th of July. 00:03:52 Speaker 2: He draws, as we say goodbye, before we say goodbye, Thabo, he draws a very... unfortunate picture of the South African police, which we've now become accustomed to, that unfortunately they were not as briefed as intelligence. They were not as briefed as they ought to have been. And it appears as if some information was mishandled deliberately in order to misguide the work of the intelligence. 00:04:17 Speaker 1: No, that's correct. I mean, he speaks about how there seems to have been efforts to ensure that people who are actually fighting these criminal syndicates, that they become victimized. I mean, he was drawing reference to that IGI report that actually spoke about the likes of General Dumisani Kumalo, the likes of General Falima Semula, and actually recommending that those generals be arrested. And he says... He does not understand how that report even got to the public domain before ASNICOC, they even got it. But he also speaks about how that report itself was actually released before it had even been completed. So he is really, really concerned, but also he speaks about how it is important going forward that all structures of crime intelligence and such really work together. But also importantly, Thabo, he says that If it had gotten so bad, rather, the criminal syndicates had infiltrated so badly that they were prepared for everybody to be fired and the country to start from scratch. So that's how bad it had become.