UDSKRIFT 🔗
Simon:
00:00
[SILENT - 8.0s]
00:07
We'll be right back.
00:42
We'll be right back.
01:00
going to have a special guest on today i'm going to be covering all things reticulum which is
01:05
really cool kind of think of it as a decentralized internet with its own protocol that can communicate
01:12
over many different things so we're going to deep dive into that for all you that have been
01:17
patiently waiting appreciate your patience it's taking a minute for me to link up and get this
01:23
underway uh before we do i just want to mention a few things uh there is some new articles and live
01:30
trackers on the website at closednetwork.io specifically tracking the eu chat control
01:37
which i've mentioned before as well as the age verification i just released another mini pod
01:41
episode uh which you can listen on the website you can subscribe to the feed you can if you're on the
01:47
newsletter uh there's a link to the article where the podcast is embedded as well as patreon is uh
01:54
put over there as well i did set up the feed uh if you go to closednetwork.io and
02:00
click podcast there's the main channel feed which is what you're hearing right now and there are
02:04
three mini pods already out on a separate feed those are like 15 to 20 minutes tops i'm trying
02:12
to keep those quick short usually single or dual topic and uh more frequently so yeah uh that that's
02:21
that's been going on so we've got all that going on over there several articles i've written
02:25
in the last two months uh probably at least six to eight articles keeping track of different things
02:32
before i dive too much into the show i want to give a special thanks to our supporters and you can
02:38
support directly over on patreon you can do direct donations right through the website if you like
02:43
or xmr or other cryptocurrency donations through xmrchat.com forward slash closed network so
02:50
want to give a big thank you to our privacy badass tiers on the patreon supporters he's at the 20
02:56
a month club uh michael bates who's been a long
03:00
longtime supporter. Going back to summer of 2023, Michael Bates, thank you very much. TK, same,
03:06
huge, longtime supporter since September of 2024. Thank you. Trying, thank you for your donations,
03:13
as well as David, going back to December of 2024. Just really, really appreciate that. And we have
03:19
our privacy supporter tiers coming in with a $10 a month supporter, Inferno Potato, Mr. Milk Mustache,
03:25
going back to Feb 2025, Dolores Y, thank you very much, and Vo, or Veo. And our privacy advocates,
03:33
we have some new ones. Hutch has been a longtime supporter, as well as Syath and Brian. So thank
03:39
you, both joined in July. And then also, Craig D, yeah, you know me, one of our direct supporters,
03:46
and an XMR chat tip from Subversion Stopper, says, based background music, sir. Nice. Well,
03:53
thank you. I appreciate that. I think the music kind of jazzes things up a little bit.
04:00
makes things more entertaining. At least it does for me. Gets me pumped, gets me in the mood.
04:05
Special thanks to Unintelligent 7 and Mattis Max, who are fielding a lot of, mostly Mattis Max
04:14
these days. Now, Intelligent 7's been a little preoccupied, but Mattis Max has been there
04:19
greeting new people, joining the Matrix channel, our SimpleX group chat, Signal chats, all the
04:25
chats. So if you want to get on Matrix, we've got about almost 490 people in there right now. You
04:32
can head over to closednetwork.io or click the link in the show notes to the main channel. We also have
04:37
an off-topic channel, generally where the meme dumps go, all the spicy memes. So yeah. Yeah. And you can
04:46
also follow me on the socials. I'm on Mastodon, Noster X. We have Instagram and YouTube, though I
04:53
haven't put any content out there yet that is on my list of things to do. Of course, you can always
04:57
shoot me a signal message or a simple X.
05:00
text message. They're on the website to get in contact with me as well as my email. I've been
05:05
receiving some really thoughtful, kind messages in the last couple of weeks coming across from
05:11
people that have been either newly discovering the show or have been listening for a while.
05:16
You know, if you can't support the show with dollars, you can support in other ways,
05:23
as well as sharing, as well as rating the web, the podcast, like in whatever podcast app you
05:28
listen to. I noticed because of that, we actually got ranked, if you do top 2026 privacy podcasts,
05:38
like there's like a list by GoodPods or Feedspot. Yeah, Feedspot is like the number one result and
05:46
closed network privacy podcast is ranking number one according to them out of 40. That's huge.
05:53
And, you know, when you do those reviews, it doesn't matter where you listen to, whether it's Apple or
05:58
or any other...
06:00
podcast feeds, if they have the ability to rate the podcast, that really helps because then it
06:06
can find new listeners. And I really appreciate it. So thank you all for those who have been
06:12
doing that. Thank you for those who've been reaching out to me directly. It's super appreciated.
06:17
Makes me feel like people care. Because sometimes this can be a lonely project when you're
06:27
just putting all the effort in and building the websites and writing articles and putting out
06:32
the episodes. And you're like, does anyone actually care? So thank you for telling me that you care.
06:38
It does mean a lot to me. And even if you can't support financially supporting in other ways or
06:44
sending a thoughtful note, it does go a long way with morale. Because there's a lot of content we
06:51
talk about that is kind of dystopian and depressing at times. And I just don't want it to always sound
06:59
negative. So
07:00
we're going to get into something very fun and cool and not negative today. This
Load full transcript
episode is
07:05
going to be primarily just focused on reticulum and anywhere else the conversation goes. So yeah,
07:13
hang tight and we're going to go ahead and get started with reticulum.
07:27
All right. And we're back. All right. So the long awaited episode on all things,
07:42
I guess reticulum, but we're probably going to talk more about reticulum. So we have Cuba here
07:46
on the show. Thanks for making the trek. We've been trying to get this underway for like the last
07:51
couple of months. Yeah. Thanks for coming on, dude. Yeah. Thanks for having me. So I've been,
07:58
I try to tell people because there's
08:00
a lot of people out there that listen who try to connect with others in the real world uh on topics
08:06
like the stuff we talk about and what what everyone's always coming into the chat room
08:11
to talk about what um how did we meet do you remember how we met uh was it run club or was
08:19
it nerd group a nerd group it was nerd group okay you came to zach's house that's right and zach's
08:26
been on the show uh we were talking about cypher and uh uh everything he's doing with cozy um and that
08:34
was that was uh really in depth and informative a little over my head in some areas he's like
08:43
mad cryptographer you know and i just love his his energy uh but and i know you do you've done a lot
08:50
you can share whatever you want to share as far as your background but um but yeah tell me a little
08:56
bit about yourself and like you know your kind of interest
09:00
and what kind of brought you into being a part of the nerddom?
09:04
All right.
09:05
Well, my background kind of revolves around BSD.
09:13
Yeah.
09:14
I've been an OpenBSD contributor for a long time.
09:23
I, you know, that's how I got into security and technology and everything in general.
09:31
It was, you know, BSD was readily available, and it was a lot of fun.
09:39
So I cut my teeth on that, I guess, is a good way to put it.
09:44
Yeah.
09:44
And I've kind of evolved with it.
09:50
You know, I've worked on a lot of different open source projects over the years,
09:53
and all of that is kind of a direct result of my involvement with OpenBSD.
09:59
I've...
10:00
Ported a lot of stuff to OpenBSD and got my toes wet in a lot of different projects because of that.
10:09
Yeah.
10:10
It's been fun.
10:11
And do you still work with OpenBSD?
10:15
Yeah.
10:16
I use it professionally and, you know, personally.
10:21
Right.
10:22
So it holds a dear place in my heart.
10:27
I've actually, I've never, I don't think I've ever ran any BSD distribution, like FreeBSD, OpenBSD.
10:37
And I guess it's kind of like a bummer because, I mean, I know it's, especially OpenBSD for servers and security, it's just like really kind of optimal if you have something that is very, I've worked in previous life as a Unix admin.
10:56
And I kind of equate it to the stability and security of.
11:00
uh you know sun solaris or hp ux or you know very purpose-built appliance
11:06
you know application type stuff that just it just stuff cannot go down we don't do scheduled
11:11
well reboots yeah yeah i i would uh i would add an asterisk on all that and say like
11:20
depending on the type of servers like i wouldn't use openbsd on a nas because the file system is
11:26
right not amazing you know not great for every application or every implementation of something
11:30
you would want a home lab for or something like that or even in an enterprise environment but
11:34
still very good and uh what do you run for your desktop what's your so uh a couple years back i
11:41
drank the nyx juice and i have i've kind of fallen down that rabbit hole yeah yeah so um
11:49
most of my uh you know daily driver kind of machines i'm i'm running nyx os on at the moment
11:55
okay um we can look past that
11:59
okay
12:00
But the important servers are still OpenBSD.
12:04
But the way I operate is...
12:10
Sorry, banging the microphone.
12:12
Oh, jeez.
12:12
I know.
12:13
That's what I do.
12:14
I go onto a machine and I futz with some config at like 12 o'clock at night
12:20
to try and get something to work.
12:21
And then I forget about it the next day.
12:23
And then a month later, I rebuild the machine or something.
12:27
And then I forget that little tweak I did.
12:29
And I'm back to square one.
12:31
And so Nix really nips all that kind of stuff in the bud.
12:36
It's all in Git.
12:39
Every change I make, it either exists in Git or it doesn't exist.
12:43
So that paradigm shift really took a lot of mental load off of my plate.
12:52
Sure.
12:52
And so I drank that juice hard.
12:57
No, I mean, and I think that's probably what...
13:00
a lot of people have been attracted to immutable releases like what is it silver blue like fedora
13:09
and stuff like that where you're not making changes to the operating system uh you're basically
13:14
re your upgrades are just a complete image uh upgrade uh and i can see why that would
13:22
be very attractive i i am too chaotic to run those types of uh systems but i could i could see
13:30
myself in the future wanting to maybe go down that pathway a little bit to have more consistency
13:36
and sanity than anything else because i can't tell you how many times where i'm like even on my
13:43
thinkpad you know or it's like trying to get the dolby atmos speakers and using easy effects you
13:50
know you do all these little tweaks and everything and then you forget and you reinstall or you know
13:55
you want to do a different and you're like how did i get all this stuff before
14:00
You know, like, um, but I think that, um, that tinker mentality is something that's probably a common, a trait with, we, we've kind of used the word nerd loosely, but really it's, it's a hacker mentality of wanting to understand how things work and trying to yield or not yield, wield the tech to what you want it to do for you.
14:23
Um, and one
of the big things that's a topic in our community is self-hosting and with that comes, you know, what is it you want to self-host and what kind of infrastructure you want to run on.
14:39
And a lot of the times it's just to host internal services.
14:42
And I know you and I have had many, many conversations about home labbing and running, you know, jellyfin or, you know, audio book servers or, you know, all those different types of things.
14:52
And, um, when you started talking about, you know, reticulum and Laura and.
15:00
mesh tastic it really piqued my interest especially in the beginning i feel like mesh tastic and mesh
15:05
core like gateway drugs into a different kind of thinking about things differently because we're
15:13
not talking about tcp ip anymore we're talking about ways to communicate that can transmit over
15:19
radio frequency and that's pretty like as a kid who loved to go into the woods with his younger
15:26
brother and friends with the walkie-talkies and stuff like that it was like it was our way even
15:31
my friend nathan brady who lived up the street from me when we were kids he you know we would
15:35
have walkie-talkies and they would reach you know three doors down to it and it was just this cool
15:39
like only nice we don't have to use the phone we can talk to each other we can coordinate you know
15:44
uh being eight nine ten years old you know i don't even know what we were talking about it didn't
15:51
really matter it's just the fact that we could communicate and no one else i mean anyone that
15:55
had a radio on the same channel could hear obviously but what i'm saying is like our parents didn't know
15:59
what
16:00
were talking about are there for you know it was like the secret secret communication that we had
16:05
and i kind of also uh as i in my teen years was running a galactic on bbs and that was kind of
16:14
the same feeling again you know oh i can communicate and this is all not so much like
16:20
secretive it's just like this it's a secret society of a few i don't that's probably the
16:25
wrong term but it's just like this if you don't know then you would never know about it kind of
16:30
thing and it's just like cool and so i think that for me mesh tastic mesh core and and uh reticulum
16:37
kind of as an adult kind of my my brain sensory is like fire off like that again like oh it's this
16:44
cool way i can communicate with my friends and and other nerds in the you know in the secret society
16:51
you know this f society group you know that we can um operate outside the controls of the isp outside
17:00
of dns and not be no one can just turn it off yeah yes it's so um i guess where would you like
17:09
to start would it be good to start with like laura or or uh or actually i just want how did you get
17:17
introduced or how did you discover reticulum like and how did you get kind of like you know
17:22
into it uh so through uh mastodon okay activity pub it wasn't
right specifically mastodon but
17:34
so uh across my feed came this cool looking radio with a slick 3d printed case uh and this
17:44
cool screen that said r node i was like what the hell is this you know like i've never i've never
17:50
seen this uh and i've i have a ham radio license and i've i've kind of been um put off by
18:00
ham radio right uh it's expensive and the radios just suck you know a little bit closer there we
18:07
go thanks uh so uh you know like you spend five six hundred bucks on this little handheld radio
18:14
and it the software for it is just total shit right oh i need windows xp to program this
18:21
you know it's just awful you know so whenever i see these little
18:27
custom homemade site kind of things that piques my interest and um this one definitely did but i
18:32
hadn't heard of reticulum so i started reading about it and um it just checked all of the boxes
18:39
right it it uh no dns no ip address you know like right that out of the gate was whoa like this
18:49
how does it work yeah how does it route yeah yeah so uh so did you just go
18:57
and start searching it up and start researching it
19:00
it or did you have anyone help you like explain what it was or how it how it worked like well
19:06
so i kind of kind of dove into it uh radio first okay so uh i i knew i could use the little esp32
19:18
laura radio for right other purposes so i got a couple of those uh and used my 3d printer to print
19:24
off the stl files that uh mark had put out for you know the build your own custom rnode site kind of
19:32
thing uh so that you know they kind of involved a couple different interests of mine like uh
19:41
electronics and i sure had to do some soldering to pull off some components and right broke a few and
19:48
right you know had to had to redo some stuff uh so that was its own little adventure uh and then
19:56
once i had the radio uh i had to
20:00
use it and so right figured out the the reticulum side of it which um just kept getting better and
20:08
better the more i got involved you know so um i knew going into it that you didn't have ip addresses
20:17
or any of this other stuff right i understood you know i vaguely understood the road routing
20:20
where you know your your node announces its location and then each subsequent node basically
20:26
keeps the next hop in mind and that's how things get routed to you so no no node on the network knows
20:35
where you're coming from essentially okay um uh so it's you know it's it's it's super cool um
20:45
with that regard then i found out we oh i can just host my own pages or or you know any kind
20:53
of content that i want on here and um that really opened up a lot of uh
21:00
doors uh so i started converting you know some of the things that i i use on the regular or
21:06
services that i've built for um open bsd stuff i started exposing them over reticulum and
21:13
um making use of them there so so so with if you wanted to serve
pages
21:23
over reticulum do you need a traditional like nginx server or or is it just all static
21:32
is there any um is it is it rendered in html is it all text-based like how so it's it's its own
21:41
um markup language called micron micron um so you there's there's different programs that you can
21:51
use uh nomad net is the canonical uh kind of like reference piece it has basically all of the
21:58
features that you would encounter
22:00
on Reticulum itself.
22:02
You know, there's a chat, you know,
22:05
direct message kind of chat program that uses LXMF,
22:09
lightweight, extensible message format.
22:11
Right.
22:12
And then it has an interface for doing RRC,
22:18
which is Reticulum Relay Chat.
22:20
Okay.
22:21
It's basically IRC over Reticulum.
22:23
Okay.
22:24
And then it has like a browser, basically,
22:29
to pull up Nomad Net pages, which are Micron.
22:36
Okay.
22:36
So it's kind of like a more verbose markdown.
22:40
Okay.
22:42
But it's also more capable.
22:44
Like you can do like alignment of things.
22:49
Right.
22:50
And stuff like that.
22:50
And there's, in the Nomad Net program,
22:59
All right.
22:59
and then I'll see you next time.
23:00
You can tell it to, just like with one little config change,
23:04
you can tell it to serve pages from your machine.
23:08
So every node is fully capable of being an autonomous kind of like server
23:16
or entity on the network that is a resource for people to use
23:23
or interact with or something like that.
23:24
Can you download files from each other?
23:26
Yep.
23:26
You can serve files.
23:28
You can do, if you remember back to like the old ages of CGI scripts
23:34
and stuff like that, it's really akin to that.
23:37
Okay.
23:39
You can make a Micron page that is, it's just like an executable,
23:45
and you can have it in whatever programming language you want.
23:47
And as long as you're outputting text, it'll be visible on the other side.
23:52
And there's, I'm not sure what to call them, directives, I guess Micron directives.
23:59
Micron experience.
23:59
Micron service.
24:00
where you can tell it to, like, reload the page
24:02
after a certain amount of time.
24:05
There's, like, a concept of forms,
24:07
so you can, you know, send data to the server
24:10
and get a response back.
24:12
Neat. Okay.
24:13
Yeah, so it's really cool.
24:18
It's really a lot like the old days of CGI
24:21
with the added benefit of, you know,
24:26
the server only knows about you
24:29
if you choose to identify to the server.
24:32
So, you know, you're just another connection,
24:36
an anonymous connection,
24:37
until you tell it to do otherwise.
24:41
So you, you know,
24:45
there's no way to filter anything.
24:47
There's no way to block access
24:52
for a subset of people or anything like that.
24:56
If it's out there, it's out there.
24:57
Yep, and all connections are treated the same.
25:00
So is, is it, uh, encrypted?
25:03
Yep.
25:03
Uh, so it's encrypted by default.
25:05
Yep.
25:06
Okay.
25:06
Everything is encrypted by default.
25:08
Um, and each, each packet is, uh, encrypted with a, uh, uh, an ephemeral key pair.
25:16
Okay.
25:17
Uh, so, uh, you, even if you, you capture all of the data, like your, your chances of decrypting
25:24
it or.
25:25
Isn't that, isn't that similar to like what, uh, like signal uses?
25:27
It's like, you guys, doesn't it use an ephemeral key pair for every message exchange?
25:32
There's, yeah, there's, there's like a, uh, there's like a ratcheting mechanism.
25:38
Um, I'm not entirely sure what the specifics of the signal.
25:44
I don't know if signal stuff is still doing like the, the ratchet component.
25:48
Yeah.
25:48
But, um, but by, but by default it's encrypted.
25:53
So if you can't transmit unencrypted, it doesn't work.
25:57
Like, okay.
25:58
And.
25:59
Yeah.
26:00
um i've only and so for for you listening um i've only only used uh our node or you know
26:10
reticulum our node twice once was in a presentation that you gave at a local meetup technology meetup
26:17
that we both go to and the second time was i think we were just talking over signal and you
26:24
were walking me through it on my one of my computers to install nomad net and we were able to converse
26:31
through there yeah uh and also was pulling up some pages so i am uh like one percent understand how
26:39
everything works so so is is nomad net like a good way to for people to get started i'm i got their
26:47
github page up um and it seems like you can do a pip install and then just run the client doing
26:53
nomad net i'm sure there's other ways to install it uh but you know it seems like a fairly straight
27:00
forward installation setup is that kind of like you can you can install this on a computer you
27:05
can install this you've installed it on like wi-fi like old wi-fi uh google home fi routers
27:13
and stuff like isn't it like there's a certain uh standard if it that you can install this like on
27:20
like routers and stuff like that to basically become our nodes uh well so so our node is
27:26
specifically the the laura okay that's the laura piece okay um but the yeah so so nomad net will run
27:36
virtually anywhere you you have an os okay so linux or um i think it runs on windows i'm not
27:43
right i was looking at their executables i'm pretty sure it runs on mac os um yeah there's also a for
27:51
sure a docker uh setup as well i see but yeah imagine it works in windows
27:59
windows
27:59
you
28:00
subsystem or whatever right oh yeah that's true um i've got it in uh turma to yeah turmux
28:07
the android oh yeah yeah it runs in there great okay actually the the the nomad net interface
28:14
works unreasonably well in turmux really i just out of like habit one day i used my finger to
28:25
tab things and it just worked i was like what holy cow shit yeah i'm like touchscreen yeah oh
28:31
that's
cool terminal app yeah yeah blew my mind so that's really that's really sophisticated i know
28:36
that you know and just really since you've been talking about it's you know you i've learned
28:42
about it which i'd say is probably the last year or so uh there's and maybe because i'm paying
28:48
attention to it more and watching following people on x and mastodon and austin stuff that are
28:53
are following it seems like it's getting more popular so it seems like the more people using it
29:00
the more use there is for it, right?
29:03
Like obviously it's like anything else, the bigger,
29:06
it's like the network effect,
29:08
like the more users you can get on,
29:09
the more you can communicate.
29:10
And the interesting, what intrigued me initially
29:13
was the fact that this is something that you can run,
29:17
run on a lot of different hardware,
29:20
but can also run over different communication stacks
29:25
like Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and LoRa.
29:28
LoRa, does it matter, does it work over,
29:32
because LoRa is just referring to generally
29:35
like that 900 megahertz frequency mesh,
29:39
Mesh-tastic stack, right?
29:41
Does it, can it work with either one?
29:43
Does it use either or is it just its own thing?
29:46
Like, but.
29:47
So the LoRa piece is,
29:51
so LoRa is like a closed proprietary thing.
29:56
Like, it's not an open source thing.
29:58
Okay.
29:58
Um.
29:59
What.
29:59
Thank you.
30:00
But there's different, I guess we can call them levels.
30:11
So like MeshTastic is fully using like the LoRa piece.
30:18
So like all of it is going over LoRa,
30:21
whereas Reticulum is specifically like the Rnode firmware
30:24
is implementing just enough of the LoRa stack.
30:30
I'm not sure what to call it, but we'll go with stack because it sounds good.
30:35
It's implementing just enough of that stack to facilitate the transport
30:41
of these Reticulum packets.
30:45
So I guess the end result of that is your LoRa connection
30:54
is basically just an Ethernet card at that point.
30:58
Okay, okay.
31:00
Like a modem.
31:00
Oh, yeah.
31:01
Like an omnidirectional.
31:02
Right.
31:03
Okay.
31:04
You know, whereas with, you know,
31:06
MeshTastic and these other things,
31:08
like it's more of an active kind of component.
31:12
Okay.
31:12
And I don't have the technical knowledge on that to expand it.
31:18
There's a lot of rabbit holes in those different avenues.
31:22
As with everything.
31:23
Right.
31:24
Yeah.
31:25
So if you have a system and let's just kind of do like a,
31:32
for instance, like, and you have a buddy that lives down the street,
31:36
would it make more sense to try to utilize like Wi-Fi probably or something?
31:41
Right.
31:42
If you wanted to communicate without, I know it can work over internet.
31:45
Yeah.
31:46
But if you didn't want to use the internet,
31:49
if you were trying to do like a mesh R node to R node kind of a thing.
31:53
And I also to the, one of the questions I had about that was,
31:56
let's say you had an R node set up and.
32:00
Maybe it has some pages and maybe it has, you know, uh, some, some other, you know,
32:04
some files you could download.
32:05
Could it communicate over wireless, like wifi, if it was in reach of another R node that
32:12
was connected to the internet, could someone else, like, can you hop through?
32:16
Is that how it works?
32:17
Is it like you're noting through other nodes to get to something, even if it may not be
32:21
like connected to the internet, so to speak?
32:25
Like, yeah, yeah.
32:26
So, um, just kind of like as a, uh, design diagram.
32:33
So it's kind of hard doing this as an audio podcast, but we'll try our best.
32:38
So at my house, I have a, one of the, it's a Google wifi device that I got at a thrift
32:45
store for five bucks.
32:47
Right.
32:47
Nice.
32:47
Flashed open to BRT.
32:49
It's got, it's running, um, RNSD, which is the, like the core.
32:56
Reticulum network stack.
32:58
Okay.
32:58
So that takes your.
33:00
different interfaces which could be ethernet could be wi-fi could be laura and it it handles the
33:09
routing of incoming and outgoing connections across those interfaces
33:15
and so sophisticated piece of software so well it's uh it's it's pretty it's pretty simple um
33:22
yeah so on that little that little device i have uh two two outbound connections okay you can
33:29
kind of think of them as outbound there one is going to a server that i have somewhere and
33:35
another one is going to a server that my buddy has okay and then locally the the local interfaces i
33:42
have uh the ethernet is is basically just listening for local reticulum traffic okay whenever it sees
33:51
that it kind of uh exposes it to the greater network over those two outbound connections
33:57
oh right so okay so any device
34:00
that i bring up on my local network uh that is speaking reticulum only on the local level it
34:05
doesn't have any direct outbound connections right it it gains outbound connectivity through that
34:11
set right okay same with laura so laura if i fire up a device that has no network card but
34:19
is attached to a laura radio right it uh and i brought yeah i brought that yeah i wish y'all
34:24
could be here with me because he's got a lot of cool stuff that i know he's brought he's got a
34:28
lot of boxes like pelican cases you know this man's serious none of them are waterproof not
34:35
not super serious serious enough yeah so it's a it's essentially uh a gateway kind of this rnsd
34:44
kind of manages like a traffic like a traffic controller so to speak you know it can it can
34:52
receive local traffic over reticulum but it also can broadcast it out right to
34:59
you wkwifu
35:00
anyone else on the network so if does yeah so so it's almost like a
35:09
like a daisy chain kind of effect so to speak and as long as one of them has rnsd on it that can
35:15
manage because you don't have to run would you run you wouldn't run rnsd like on everything
35:19
right do you kind of just need like one rnsd server device like on your network to manage that
35:26
and then you could have your laptop or something just running nomad net without good good question
35:32
so the the way the way mark built the whole setup uh is is very very modular so you can run rnsd
35:47
individually uh but whenever you fire up nomad net uh-huh it's also kind of in the background
35:56
firing up rnsd oh okay okay
36:00
it's not it's not a separate process it's just it's using you know the okay pi and and all the
36:06
python stuff to um to fire it up okay so it's not like you have to set up a dedicated rnsd device
36:14
right and it doesn't matter if you have multiple things running rnsd or if you have if it's running
36:18
automatically because you've installed okay it doesn't add like conflicts or anything i know
36:23
like in mesh tastic uh and i don't know a ton about it either but i've played around with it
36:29
for a while is if you are using a device by default it's a client device if you have another
36:37
device that's maybe a relay you might set it up as a relay but you also just might set it up as a
36:42
client muted device so you don't you don't like distract the network too much for if you have
36:51
too many relays and too close proximity i guess it can be some issues because mesh tastic is only a
36:56
three hop right so you don't want to you
37:00
all the hops with just relays because it will never reach its destination reticulum isn't like
37:05
that right it's just like it it will just keep does it just keep sending until it's eventually
37:12
finds its way uh does it have like a time to live does it i know what it's hard to un like i'm
37:19
thinking tcpip stack right so send x and you know three-way handshake and everything it's like how
37:25
does it how does it know if like your message was delivered does it know or does it send some kind
37:33
of so i want to make the distinction between yeah messages and and packets okay so like a message
37:42
would maybe be like something like a like a direct message over lxmf okay um which is a different
37:49
beast uh because that has a whole set of other pieces on the network um but for a packet right so
37:58
you
38:00
When you first connect to a network,
38:02
you go in and you announce.
38:03
That tells the nodes that you're directly connected to
38:06
that you're there.
38:08
Okay.
38:09
And they rebroadcast that
38:12
according to a set of rules
38:15
and bandwidth limitations
38:17
that prevent flooding of announces.
38:20
Okay.
38:21
And that kind of disseminates across the network,
38:25
the network's propagation nodes,
38:27
which are nodes that have long-lived connectivity
38:34
and are kind of like not guaranteed to be there.
38:40
They have like longer uptime,
38:43
maybe a higher rep or something.
38:45
Yeah, okay.
38:46
So the transport nodes will rebroadcast this announcement.
38:53
And it has, the announcement has key pieces of information
38:57
like your public key.
38:59
Okay.
39:00
um okay like the the hop count what i can't remember what else there's a couple a couple
39:06
pieces but it you know after there's there's like a timeout that happens um in some cases i i can't
39:15
remember there's the the rns manual outlines the whole flow quite quite nicely okay i can't i can't
39:23
do it justice but right yeah right right right so and it's more like more like i'm trying to
39:29
i'm trying to get a feel for like because this isn't like internet yeah you know internet is
39:35
completely different in the sense where like you do a request and you if you don't get a request back
39:39
then you know it wasn't sent right but uh this announcement so i know when i was setting mine up
39:45
i added you and that like announced me kind of to the network is that kind of what that did or was
39:52
that just to communicate one-on-one uh or i'm not sure in that case so yeah so by the way
40:00
default when you when you first fire up nomad net it it doesn't announce okay uh and so that
40:06
that kind of like broadcasts your presence and says look here's this and this is like my here's
40:12
my public identity which is like kind of like a way to message me or find find me on the network
40:18
okay uh and then you know then once once that announce kind of propagates enough uh then
40:27
i can route to you okay so um uh the network also kind of acts as like a uh like a key store
40:37
like a digest kind of or not maybe digest but like a database of of who yeah so so like when you do an
40:44
announcement that put the public keys uh kind of like exist okay the public key that you announce
40:51
kind of exists in the the transport node you know network memory okay uh for for a little while so
40:59
if you go off
41:00
offline right away i can still request your key okay and get your public key uh and then send
41:06
messages to you and if you're offline um this and this is all specific to lxmf uh right if i send you
41:13
an lxmf message while you're offline um it it'll try to send it to you if it can't it hits a
41:23
propagation node okay uh and those that that message will kind of like disseminate across all
41:30
of the the different are they propagation nodes there's a i think there's a different term for
41:35
the okay yeah yeah they're propagation nodes okay transport nodes are the reticulum side of it so
41:41
the so the lxmf propagation nodes will will house your message um for like a there's a configured
41:48
storage okay and if you um stuff if you were talking to someone on nomad net and you only
41:53
had it installed on your laptop and then you jump on a plane and four or five hours later
42:00
you're at a hotel and you boot back up and you you can get those messages because it's being
42:04
stored somewhere so it's
not like if you're just obviously if you're offline maybe for a couple
42:10
months or something then there's no guarantee that's going to get to you i'm sure there's some
42:14
kind of limit they're not going to store on uh messages indefinitely but uh so that's kind of
42:20
cool to know like if you don't have a dedicated server up and running somewhere that you're
42:26
you know screened into through over ssh or whatever you could just do it locally and
42:31
expect that okay at some point i'll just get my messages later or you know okay that uh and that
42:37
was a uh a point in the in the first talk that that i did at the at the yep
42:48
pueblo cyberpunks right cyberpunks yeah whatever it's called now uh i i i wasn't aware of the
42:56
interpropagation node syncing oh okay so i i thought it was like a central
43:01
node that your messages went to but oh right taken in that okay so that's even cooler though
43:07
because it maintains its decentralized nature right and um is there
43:15
is there any um any other applications that can utilize like uh our node or or or you know
43:26
use these communication protocols to do i guess it just depends on bandwidth like i'm thinking like
43:32
could you could you stream over it could you host a podcast over it could you i guess anything that
43:38
you you i guess you could right but does it have like like rss feeds or other kinds of ways to
43:43
subscribe to content or would you always have to go back and like refresh and see if anything's new
43:48
like if you wanted to run like a news site or you know something like that is it like uh yeah
43:55
a method for um well if you think about
44:00
rss i mean it's not really like a subscribe kind of thing that's true it's just checking the yeah
44:05
you're right you have something that's checking yeah that's a good point so you know in in that
44:10
sense it'd be super trivial to make something in you know right you would so so for for example
44:17
like in this box um what do we got in there that's the all right we're about to open one of the boxes
44:25
here okay and it looks like something straight out of like a movie you know it's got a power supply
44:33
it looks like a raspberry pi esp32 with usb plugged into is that a raspberry pi it is a pi yeah pi 3b
44:41
with a ups okay and then the lid uh you've got some more components so gps receiver okay um well
44:54
this this is the gps this is uh the laura okay so you have the laura
45:00
radio in here and then uh uh rtl sdr oh rtl sdr okay okay so this is like a portable
45:09
like a basically yeah a portable rnode yep okay yep so it uh it fires up uh and i on there i have
45:19
all of our talks for the um pueblo cyberpunks right uh and they're they're available for
45:27
download uh obviously not right now because it's powered off because it's powered off yeah um
45:35
so you know basically i i just call ytdlp slurp down those files and then expose them there's a
45:43
script that just literally it does an ls on a directory and outputs it to oh like cgi style
45:50
okay to micron okay and then that gets rendered as a page and you you click the file and it
45:55
sends it to you really yep and i i presume it's
46:00
going to be kind of slow if you were over like laura or something but if you if it's but if it's
46:05
connected to anything on the network then it could probably stream as fast as it can serve it through
46:10
that network it's on right yep okay so it could be very fairly fast and do you see um are there
46:19
you know communities or where where are people connecting i i guess they're just connecting
46:25
through nomad net and through through yeah uh that platform like is there any anywhere like
46:33
what's the biggest resource online is it this guy's mark's site or or just a github page well
46:40
uh it's it's kind of interesting the the the development it seems like it's hard to find
46:46
information yeah right well so or at least people that talk to about it it's not like there'd be a
46:51
matrix group or anything because they're all on uh they're all on reticulum you know which makes
46:55
sense yeah there was a matrix group but oh was it it shut down uh in favor
47:00
favor of which makes sense eat your own dog food right yeah so uh yeah one of one of the relatively
47:07
new features um that like i i want to do another talk basically just on this feature okay it's
47:16
awesome uh there's there's basically a full git forge uh so so you can build and collaborate
47:28
yep yeah on software dev over reticulum over reticulum yep so all of the reticulum development
47:36
and uh not all of the releases but most of the release stuff has switched to um reticulum first
47:45
right so okay the the git repo is all there right the github is is getting updated for like critical
47:53
things okay there was a uh a recent update that had a security patch
48:02
for a built-in program called RNSH,
48:03
which is basically SSH or Reticulum.
48:06
Oh, okay.
48:08
And there was a, yeah, anyway,
48:10
so all of the development is happening through Reticulum,
48:16
which is through a program called RNGit.
48:20
RNGit.
48:21
And it's...
48:23
As in GIT, like GitHub, yeah, okay.
48:26
It's literally a forge, right?
48:28
So you've got the, like, work item tracking.
48:33
You've got, you know, you can view diffs.
48:35
You can do all this other stuff.
48:37
Interesting.
48:37
And that's where I assume people like bugs or feature requests
48:40
or pull requests are all happening there now.
48:43
Yeah, there's really no concept of pull request at the moment.
48:49
Okay.
48:51
And I don't know that there will be.
48:54
Interesting.
48:55
Kind of patches fly over, like LXMF.
48:57
And, oh, interesting.
48:59
There's...
49:00
there's also development that happens in the,
49:02
the IRC.
49:04
Okay.
49:05
The R R R R C is that what it's called?
49:07
So if,
49:08
um,
49:08
if you install nomad net,
49:10
does it then start looking at the,
49:14
what is it?
49:15
R get repo for updates or,
49:18
or no.
49:20
Uh,
49:20
so kind of like the R and get,
49:25
is that what it is?
49:25
R and get.
49:26
Yeah.
49:27
The,
49:29
the,
49:29
the canonical way to install an update is through PIP.
49:33
Right.
49:34
If you run open BSD,
49:36
you can,
49:36
you can package add all these things.
49:38
Cause I,
49:39
I maintain the,
49:40
uh,
49:42
those versions on open BSD.
49:43
So,
49:44
Oh,
49:44
okay.
49:44
They're,
49:44
they're up to date on,
49:46
you know,
49:46
across the board.
49:47
Um,
49:49
there's,
49:50
uh,
49:52
packaging is,
49:53
is spotty though.
49:54
Okay.
49:55
Because,
49:56
um,
49:58
the,
49:58
the license for,
50:00
reticulum like the the core rnsd and and rngit and all that jazz uh there's some
50:08
extra clauses in there that that make it technically not
50:13
fos like okay for you open source right yeah whatever the acronym stands for is it like uh
50:20
so it's not is it is it it's not like a gp like traditional gpl is it more like a mit
50:26
or something yeah it's like a it'd be it'd be considered a modified mit or okay modified
50:32
uh bsd i can't remember if it was mit or bs okay okay um so on on openbsd it's it's not a big deal
50:40
like we just mark that it's a it's a custom license okay like users are free to you know
50:47
examine it look at it whatever right there's other distros like um i like i looked at updating the
50:54
the packages on uh alpine linux oh wow okay there was uh
50:58
uh
51:00
they're there they were talking about doing a fork you know and like all this other stuff i'm
51:05
like guys come on man like wait yeah what are you doing you don't have to make things more
51:11
difficult for yourself yeah and in in nix packages nix packages is up to date as well
51:16
um but the in nix packages it's marked as non-free right so you okay you have to go in
51:23
and explicitly add an exception um which is really annoying but it's workable at least you know
51:29
is that i mean what's the do you know what the the reason like what the motivation is behind
51:35
that particular why the weirdness in the licensing is it just to keep the riffraff out
51:43
like the riffraff when i say riffraff there's a lot of riffraff in open source projects and
51:48
communities and they often get kind of hijacked for whatever reasons they do you know but is is
51:54
that kind of the fear is uh there's it being hijacked by uh
52:01
yeah it even could be hijacked by a nation state you know or a government that's why i'm not saying
52:05
it's got to be a bunch of weirdos or something but yeah i i don't know i don't i don't want to
52:10
put words in mark's mouth i gotcha sure from from my perspective if you read the the the
52:18
modifications to the to the license like there there's like a you know don't do harm to to
52:25
people kind of thing and there's like uh uh don't don't use this for ai okay so there's like a there's
52:35
like a code of ethics that that want he would like there to be some adherence to it's or like an ethos
52:42
i guess maybe not like yeah yeah and that's a hard part that's a hard part about like creating software
52:49
and putting it out and like what wanting adoption and contribution but also not wanting it to be
52:55
turned into shit you know what i mean like yeah i think i think um
52:59
um
53:01
and again, I don't, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but sure. I,
53:05
I think there's a, there's a good amount of, um,
53:10
you know, what's that meme where there's like, this is mine now. Right.
53:16
Like corporate kind of, kind of stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
53:20
And I, I think there's a, there's also kind of like a,
53:23
an altruistic aspect of it where I could see that, you know, cause,
53:27
cause Mark explicitly, uh,
53:31
said that the, the reticulum protocol and,
53:37
and, uh, I guess just the protocol, uh, is, is public domain. Right.
53:43
Okay. And I don't know, you, you know,
53:47
you put things in public domain and you don't,
53:49
you don't necessarily want them to be used for, used for evil. Yeah. Yeah.
53:54
Use for evil. I mean, and I, it's,
54:00
It's hard because as someone who is a big advocate for freedom, freedom to share ideas and communicate and have uncensored ability to share those ideas, collaborate with people, you know that other people could take that same action to do things that are not good for other people.
54:30
And it's like always this, and I think that's long been the challenge and oftentimes we get told, oh, if you, you know, well, the tour, the darkness just for people who buy, you know, it's just, you know, porn, kiddie porn and darknet vendors selling drugs online.
54:47
It's like, okay, that is a component that happens for sure, but it's also used for a lot of activism.
54:58
It's used for just regular everyday.
55:00
uh internet and and uh you know sharing ideas whether it's on dread or anywhere you know any
55:06
of these other forums and there's there's a lot of cd stuff but there's a lot of cd stuff on the
55:11
clear net right i mean probably by far more just because of the ease of use and it's it's uh
55:19
easier to access which is why so many of these like apps like kick and all these other weird
55:26
you know i'm not trying to vilify any app i'm just saying a lot of apps have been used over the
55:32
years to like as predatory tools and everything you know like to talk to kids and all this other
55:38
stuff it's like so much of that happens on the clear net you don't even need it's it seems like
55:44
this is really an anti-censorship kind of pathway and also a protection pathway for activists and
55:52
whistleblowers getting content to journalists i mean most every reputable or and maybe even some
55:58
non-reputable outlet
56:00
all have uh tor
versions of their website and uh use secure drop and things like that for
56:08
for to get information to them and it's done in a way where it's it's most protective but at the
56:14
same time i'm just kind of going down this pathway to kind of i i can i can understand the the
56:20
concern right where you're like i really don't want this to be used for evil uh so don't use
56:26
it for evil but also use it to grow the network it seems the more people that are aware of it and
56:36
understand how to use it could actually benefit in this in a lot of the same ways that tor does
56:42
those benefits i mean maybe there could be our node you know secure drops for people to use to
56:48
upload documents for you know corruption and other things i don't know you know i mean very slowly
56:55
very very slowly very slowly uh but at the same time though too
56:59
too
57:00
uh it does it there the central point of failure is that particular server that's housing the
57:08
information needs to be accessible right it's not like it gets stored in a decentralized way
57:15
your things live somewhere on a device right it's not like it's like bit torrent or something
57:21
um hey can you do torrents over our node or or uh reticulum uh it's it's not really well suited for
57:30
that yeah so uh there's there's probably some other mode of doing something similar but right i'm not
57:40
i'm not aware of what it would be could you bit torrent would be terribly inefficient right
57:47
what about like game servers and stuff like if you want to run a minecraft server okay
57:51
is it can it crosses yeah there's there's a few games on uh they're like in in the
58:00
the NomadNet Micron kind of sphere.
58:04
I haven't actually played any of them,
58:06
but I imagine they're not terribly,
58:11
they're kind of like mud,
58:13
you know,
58:13
like the old mud style game.
58:15
Yep.
58:17
But that's,
58:18
I think what kind of has
58:19
like a certain appeal to it is.
58:24
Feels like the old days.
58:25
We don't need to stream Call of Duty
58:26
over Reticulum, right?
58:28
But, you know,
58:30
I'm asking one of the questions
58:31
is just like where potentially things
58:33
like thinking of different applications,
58:35
why you would want to use Reticulum
58:39
outside of just the tinker hobby aspect of it.
58:42
I think that's probably
58:43
one of the biggest allures,
58:46
that attractions to it is like,
58:48
well, this is cool
58:48
and it's kind of retro
58:49
and it's kind of old school.
58:51
And I like things like that.
58:53
And it seems like there's also kind of
58:55
with the younger generation,
58:56
this appeal to analog technology.
59:00
and using wired headphones and listening to vinyl and listening to cds uh had nieces and nephews
59:07
over for the last few weeks different times and my niece who's who's 13 uh i'm like looking at
59:15
this block on the counter i'm like what is this she's like oh that's my cd
player yeah it's like
59:20
what this is a cd player and it didn't look like a cd player like from that from when i had a cd
59:26
player as a kid it was like kind of cool but it's just a very plain looking box like oh and i popped
59:31
the ejection lid and like oh there is a cd in here like using a cd's like this is awesome you know
59:38
and i think that that mentality is like something that i think is good to foster uh because technology
59:46
moves so fast but it often just the more technology progresses the more we're online the less
59:55
connected we are yeah and i think things like this
59:59
you
60:00
kind of get that excitement going of like,
60:03
oh, I'm not just going to connect to some server
60:06
with thousands of people on it.
60:08
I'm going to connect to this person's node
60:11
and read their pages or read, you know what I mean?
60:16
Like, I don't know if it's hard to like.
60:17
There's an intentionality behind it.
60:19
An intentionality.
60:20
That's a great word to describe it.
60:23
So where do you see,
60:25
how do you see this growing and expanding?
60:27
Is it through, like, you know,
60:33
obviously it's probably not going to be disrupting anything,
60:35
but other than possibly corporate surveillance
60:41
and keeping AI models from training on content on reticulum.
60:46
There's so much AI crap in it.
60:48
I don't know, man.
60:49
Like, I think a key piece of that, of the license is,
60:54
like, it's on the reference implementation, right?
60:58
Okay.
60:58
So there's tons and stuff.
61:00
tons of other implementations there's probably 50 different like llm spewed rust implementations
61:07
of reticulum oh okay and they're all just vibe coded you know apps to get people on
61:14
no we're not even i don't know they're just you know someone heard about reticulum and they're
61:19
like oh my god i'm gonna make the definitive oh yeah android app or right right right right yeah
61:25
spend whatever money on yeah yeah i'm wondering how many tokens i'll use to
61:30
cloud code this up and stuff and then just like 40 other people they do this you know so you've got
61:37
and they're all unique implementations right it just drives me nuts there's uh my favorite so far
61:45
is uh there's a reticulum go which is a reticulum implementation in go yeah yeah and that's that's
61:53
probably the most uh feature complete and when i say feature complete i mean feature complete
62:00
relative to the reference implementation.
62:03
So it supports the most features
62:06
of the reference implementation.
62:09
And it's exciting because it can be compiled
62:14
to like a WASM WebAssembly kind of binary.
62:18
So then you have like a full reticulum stack
62:20
running in your web browser.
62:23
So there's some cool things with that.
62:26
Is this it, reticulum go?
62:27
Yep.
62:28
Okay.
62:28
So if you use MeshChat X, it's using reticulum go?
62:33
Ah, yes.
62:34
I was going to ask you
about that, MeshChat X.
62:37
So I have it installed on my phone
62:41
and I think I installed it during your presentation.
62:47
Nice.
62:49
And this is, I think it's Android only.
62:51
I don't think there's an iOS.
62:53
Maybe there's an iOS, I'm not sure.
62:54
But I remember, there's probably no iOS for that.
62:57
It's not in the App Store.
62:59
See you, everyone.
63:00
this way if you're going to use a smartphone you know use uh use graphene os it's the way
63:05
but i think um yeah i could oh i have termics on here too but um i was mesh mesh chat x yeah here
63:15
it is so this is uh it's just an app you can install on your phone now as this fires up and
63:23
there's a change log here um as this fires up and i have some people that i've actually talked to
63:29
you in here including you and a couple other people one of them uh is uh one of our moderators
63:36
mattis max so this uh has the conversations tab and then it has the announces tab which there are
63:44
quite a few announces in here but this is kind of like a very easy gateway drug into using it without
63:51
actually doing anything else right yep so it uses reticulum but it's connecting over
63:58
the internet so it's probably
64:00
connecting to to other nodes that have announced or something right this is kind of how it works
64:04
so if you're if you're connecting over the existing internet you you use tcp or udp uh
64:13
okay you can do there's there's interfaces what rnsd has like configurable uh like user
64:22
configurable extensible interfaces okay there's someone wrote one for like uh i can't remember
64:31
if the icmp one is built in or not but there's one for icmp there's one for um i think there's
64:37
one for dns i think it uses iodine underneath so okay you can you can do like reticulum packet
64:45
transfer over dns okay uh requests interesting which is wild yeah it's it's crazy are you running
64:55
the are you running this one i don't want to say it out loud the the food
65:00
because that's no okay i think that's a typo uh and then there's like some r node in here called
65:06
rowdy boy yeah so so my my kind of like sovereign email bridge my my my transport node uh that's
65:15
the long-lived one is right suah dot oh shut up and hack dot dev okay okay so i think you added
65:22
that but that's the typo name this must have mistyped it um and then i see this like rowdy
65:28
boy has this sovereign email bridge can you do email over reticulum like i i guess you'd have
65:35
to have some kind of registry for the for the probably that's just a uh i don't know i mean
65:43
anything that you send to another node they're gonna have full access to okay you know so if if
65:50
it is an email bridge uh don't ever use it for anything i was gonna say because rowdy's gonna
65:57
know what you do right he's gonna know i'm probably a fed fed op
66:00
right there no i'm just kidding right probably not but um it's really cool though i mean
you can
66:04
see the interfaces like you're talking about and and you can the network visualizer is pretty cool
66:09
to be able to wow every time i just popped up there's just tons and tons of more yeah devices
66:14
on the network uh which looks kind of like a um an obsidian uh brain uh vault kind of visualizer
66:23
how like everything stems off from each other so this is actually kind of cool it is is um
66:32
i don't i actually need to play around with uh mesh chat is or mesh mesh chat x can you do groups
66:39
in here um so there's a few uh there's a few kind of i guess extensions i don't know what to call
66:48
them okay like plugins or something or extension they're basically uh separate daemons that you
66:54
would run on a system um that like
66:59
like
67:00
I use one with a couple of friends where it exposes an LXMF address.
67:06
Okay.
67:07
And it also knows about the other addresses of my friends.
67:12
And so when it receives an address, it sends a message to those devices.
67:18
Okay.
67:20
I don't know what it's called off the top of my head.
67:23
But it creates kind of like a direct message to multiple people.
67:34
But is this something that you would use?
67:37
The downside of it is it's centralized.
67:40
Okay.
67:41
So if my buddy's node goes down, that conversation ceases to be a group.
67:48
Okay.
67:48
And it just becomes a void.
67:50
I guess not really a void because the messages would still hit the propagation nodes and it could be synced in later.
67:56
But only through that.
68:00
But that's like a, it's like a hub basically.
68:02
Right.
68:02
So there's, there's a few different, um, pieces that are kind of like, and not pieces, but
68:12
projects that are, are trying to, to come up with a good way to do group messaging.
68:16
Uh, and I, I, uh, there's been a few conversations.
68:21
Um, some of them happened on matrix, which is, is now defunct, uh, where, you know, kind
68:28
of like the, the things that were needed for group chat were kind of being discussed.
68:32
But as far as I know, no one has like fully implemented a decentralized way to do that.
68:38
That would be awesome though.
68:39
I mean, I know it's probably just a matter of time, but I could see that being something
68:44
that I would, uh, be very interested in is to be able to have a group because I'm a group
68:50
chat kind of person.
68:51
I don't really, even in, even in within the closed network matrix chat.
68:57
If you're not in there for like two days, you're traveling.
69:00
like i was traveling i've been traveling for for several weeks uh back to back um and through july
69:07
i come you know so if i miss something for three days and i come in i'm like uh i got so much stream
69:13
of consciousness to go back through but group chats are kind of smaller and even they can get
69:17
a little wild and crazy but like it's not like these public servers and chat rooms i mean they're
69:22
kind of more
focused generally around topics and things of that nature and i i think that that's
69:29
one of the things i'd be very interested in it's one of the things i like about
69:33
i mean signals okay right with group chats but it's tied to a phone number it's tied to and you
69:39
you only have one identity i think simple x is probably a very good implementation of kind of
69:44
an anonymous uh multiple anonymous profiles and those different profiles can be in different
69:49
group chats like that's that's pretty that's pretty cool yeah and i think you know i'm always
69:56
thinking about like what options are there
70:00
for the community like for larger communities as well you know that could look at evaluating
70:05
something as it sounds like maybe you know in the roadmap or down the road there could be something
70:10
that would be kind of neat to look to consider yeah of a reticulum because i like the idea that
70:15
you can kind of connect to it through multiple ways and you can't i i guess i i guess you can't
70:25
really like track down where something is being hosted right the the closest you can get is
70:31
it depends on the interfaces you're using but like uh so when you connect to a node over tcp
70:39
like there's a there's a tcp connection that's right that's you know visible and all that jazz so
70:44
um but the next hop there's there's not much insight into you know what right where that came from right
70:53
right um it it just depends really like what you're
70:59
you
71:00
connecting through and, and, um, all that jazz. Yeah. The, I think, I think one of the, the
71:10
things that, um, people kind of overlook when they're thinking about reticulum is that
71:16
like, yes, there's this, this, I'll call it the test net because it started out as the test net.
71:22
And really it's just like the broader reticulum network. There, there is this, this big network of,
71:28
of devices, but you can go and you can make a local network that's, that's isolated and completely
71:35
just your devices or, or your devices and your friends devices. And you can even, you can even
71:41
do that over the, the main reticulum network. You can have, uh, it like encrypted. They're, they're
71:51
like akin to VLANs. Okay. You know, so you have a, uh, a reticulum network within a reticulum
71:57
network, but it's, it's encrypted.
72:00
Like a shared private key or not private key, but you can,
72:04
is it kind of like almost like, almost like a tail net kind of thing?
72:07
Like, or, you know, I mean, you're, you're, I don't know.
72:14
There's a lot of things involved with, with tail scale stuff.
72:17
Yeah. Yeah. That might not have been a great comparison,
72:19
but I just like a network within a network that you can add devices overlay.
72:23
Yeah. That's a great way to put it. So what are your,
72:26
what are your favorite things like to do with reticulum?
72:31
Like what are your favorite things?
72:32
Just discovering other nodes out there that have content.
72:38
Is it in chat chat group or like a, the R, what is it?
72:43
R, R, R, C, R, R, R, C, reticulum relay chat.
72:47
Like, is it entertaining? Is it fun? Is it like, you know, I, I think so.
72:52
All right. So the, uh, the main things I do, you know,
72:57
like, like on any given day, um, there's.
73:00
the the main reticulum forum okay right so it's it's like rns.recipes you can you can visit the
73:08
website you know through through regular internet okay and it's the same information that you would
73:13
see that's more fun it's more fun it's way more fun yeah yeah you can you know like if you identify
73:19
when you connect like that's the authentication mechanism right so yeah it it knows uh you know
73:24
there's no logins there's no sessions or anything it's so cool i mean this i mean i know that's you
73:30
know it sounds as we talk about it sounds kind of primitive to a degree compared to like the vast
73:36
internet but this is a network you can connect to without asking permission or kyc-ing yourself
73:42
with your isp like you can just connect yep and that is the whole concept of that is wild
73:51
in itself that you and you can't really there's no there's nothing to go after who do you go after
73:59
to say
74:00
you're going to try to shut it down yeah yeah you can't there's no so route that you can you know
74:06
like if i mean it's just like an example let's say you were a group of friends and you weren't
74:13
particularly i mean there's and there's other tools to do this but like i look at this box
74:20
right yep if you had like a cyber deck of some kind right i'm thinking something with no sim
74:25
cards something with no imei something with no bluetooth if you didn't want it steam deck
74:31
a steam deck if you were to coordinate with friends of friends who were not friends of flock
74:40
yep i'm just saying if you were you know what i'm saying like okay i'm not i'm not advocating for
74:45
people to not be friends of flock i think flock's great for the community uh no seriously though i
74:49
mean like this is like this kind of check which community are you referring to the palantir
74:56
community is like you have a communication
75:00
in a box this is very like military-esque stuff where well no i mean like in a sense where it's
75:06
like you have a communication in a box that it cannot be really like shut down i mean yeah you
75:13
could be shut down i suppose if they found you but i mean i'm just saying like it's just neat
75:17
that we have this technology that to be able to not just you know host stuff but communicate
75:26
outside of internet protocol it's wild yeah a great scale yeah it's neat the way everything
75:34
is interconnected so uh do you have this set up here and then you have some of the google uh wi-fi
75:42
home reflash with open wrt is that is that kind of like a good way to get started is doing like try
75:48
to find get your hands on something that's like open wrt compatible from like thrift store or ebay
75:53
or something or secondhand best best way is to just use what you have just old old laptop laying
75:59
around
76:00
Or just your current laptop.
76:01
Just current laptop.
76:02
But it's something, though, that you would want it to be on most of the time, I presume, right?
76:06
No.
76:06
No, not necessarily?
76:07
Okay.
76:07
Unless you're hosting pages or running a transport note, right?
76:11
I mean, even if you're hosting pages, it just depends on how much you want people to be able to get to the stuff, right?
76:18
I see.
76:22
Like, I don't know.
76:23
I haven't implemented it yet, but I have an idea for, it's kind of like a reticulum art.
76:33
Neat.
76:34
Not drawing art or anything like that, but just like, I'd like to have like, maybe like haikus or some kind of poetry that exists briefly and then is gone.
76:47
And then the next time it connects, it's something different.
76:49
Ah, I like it.
76:50
Like, every time the node appears, it's just a temporal thing that vanishes at some point.
77:00
And that's it.
77:00
It'll never return.
77:04
So not like an NFT, right?
77:07
Yeah.
77:09
Remember when that was a thing?
77:13
I like the idea of stuff like that.
77:18
It's like trying to tell somebody about a story that happened at a party.
77:23
And then you realize it's just like you just had to be there, man.
77:26
Yeah.
77:26
I can't really share the experience with you.
77:28
You just had to be there.
77:30
And I kind of like that mentality of things where it's like, oh, you know, what was going on in the forum or what's going on here?
77:38
It's like, well, you just kind of got to be there, you know, because there's not going to be any replay of it, so to speak.
77:46
And that's, I think, one of the things that everyone's been so accustomed to.
77:49
You don't have to watch the news.
77:51
Everything gets clipped and replayed ad nauseum, you know, on all the social media channels.
77:56
And half the time...
77:59
Half the time...
78:00
It's false, you know, but, yeah, I could see a lot of different cool applications for that, like how they build that.
78:11
I guess the best way to track this is from the, I presume that the RNGit is available to everyone to look at and track to see what updates and stuff.
78:24
And that's probably the best place to go.
78:27
If you're just getting started, like the PIP, you know, the Python package stuff, or your OS's package manager are the, you know, primary entry points.
78:39
Yep.
78:40
If you're a developer, yeah, like grab the source code and, you know, build your own releases and stuff.
78:47
Like it's all signed, right?
78:49
So you can, you, you know how Git can do signing of like commits or tags with GPG or SSH keys.
78:58
It can also do it with.
79:00
reticulum keys so oh that's cool yeah uh oh that's really cool okay mark was able to get
79:05
that working so that's neat yeah so like all of the stuff is is signed and you know you can
79:10
the rngit does like releases right so there's okay you've got like the the python wheel is
79:18
available on the the site like the tarballs for oh yeah source code and everything and it's all
79:22
signed and so you can you know verify um and i'm looking at the reticulum go looks like they have
79:29
support for just about literally everything windows mac os android debian ubuntu fedora
79:37
arch um bst i mean like i see like every logo on here a docker uh yeah i mean it's so that's
79:47
probably a good a good way to get started right is to go either install nomad net or check out
79:52
reticulum go and then probably the um uh the mesh chat x app i'd say reticulum go is is
80:01
if you if you know when you want to run rnsd uh-huh reticulum go is an option at that point
80:07
okay um but it's it's uh it's more of like the the the daemon component you know it's okay so
80:16
it doesn't have an interface to it necessarily right so uh that basically just every time you
80:22
boot up you can have that daemon start and it's just running so it's connected routing routing
80:28
and okay and then nomad net's probably just the easiest to get started with across the board
80:34
yeah i would i would say i would say mesh chat x um and and nomad net with with nomad net like you're
80:42
you'll have to add an interface right uh and the the forum kind of you know rns.recipes kind of comes
80:49
in with with that it has a directory okay directory.rns.recipes i think is the url uh and it
80:57
you know people can register
80:59
you
80:59
Thank you.
81:02
nodes through that
81:03
or there's
81:05
inside of reticulum there's the concept
81:07
of like auto discovery
81:09
so you can set
81:11
an interface to kind of like
81:14
learn about
81:15
other nodes
81:16
through whatever means are available
81:21
and then it can
81:23
auto pick interfaces from that
81:25
list kind of like
81:27
extend its reach
81:29
interesting okay
81:30
it can
81:33
it can auto
81:35
I don't know if negotiate is the right word for it
81:37
but it will find if it finds
81:39
a route that's a better path
81:41
fewer hops to a node
81:43
it'll start using that one instead
81:45
so it kind of like
81:49
it's like
81:49
a mesh
81:51
in the true sense like your
81:53
node will connect
81:55
to other nodes automatically
81:57
and figure out the best path for doing
81:59
stuff
81:59
that's a good idea of
81:59
Thank you.
82:00
um so that's pretty cool rns rns recipes you know is a good is a good place to find like an
82:08
entry node um and then from there it's not just like a banana bread recipe yeah right
82:14
this rns is delicious yes some good tasty uh like it yeah and mesh chat mesh chat x has uh
82:23
yeah a it has a lot in here yeah there's a it has a lot of features i kind of wish it didn't have
82:30
some yeah it seems a little
overwhelming to be honest like i mean it has like messages
82:34
telephone contacts relay chat nomad network a map archives tools interfaces file sync
82:41
vanish network visualizer identities oh so that's another thing you can have
82:47
you identities yeah you should have multiple identities um you have your identity hash and
82:51
you can you can uh copy your backup text and you can also export your backup file so if you want to
82:58
keep that somewhere safe
83:00
you can always restore those identities but you can also just create a new identity and these
83:05
would be like you know work friends different types of i don't know whatever you would want
83:10
and you can just add it but um okay that's pretty freaking cool
83:21
oh i'm rowdy boy that's me because i'm like wait that's my identity because i'm looking at that
83:26
network visualizer and i see my holy shnikes dude look at all those yeah so each one with a little
83:33
like human icon is a is a peer so that's a peer that's another individual and then the the purple
83:42
ones purple ones those are those are nodes so if you you should be able to browse yeah and you can
83:50
search nodes so right now i have the visualizer network visualizer up on my phone and it says
83:56
search nodes there's like over 200 uh showing up in here
83:59
you
84:00
and that's pretty cool.
84:04
There's a few library nodes that have books.
84:12
There's one I saw the other day that there's movies.
84:16
Oh, wow.
84:19
People are using it for all kinds of stuff.
84:21
Okay, I'm interested.
84:23
There's one that had a map of,
84:26
it was a text map of Ukraine
84:29
with, I guess, active incidents
84:32
that were ongoing at the time.
84:35
There's all kinds of stuff.
84:36
Wow.
84:38
There's a Keep Android Open Source.
84:41
You know that?
84:42
Yeah.
84:42
That webpage.
84:44
There's a copy of that on there.
84:45
Yeah, it's keeping a countdown
84:47
of Android, Google's implementation
84:50
of developer authentication,
84:57
I guess, whatever you want to call it,
84:58
developer, KYC.
84:59
Yeah.
85:00
You know, implementation, I think it goes into effect in, like, I want to say as early as next month or October or something.
85:07
It's coming up pretty good to keep Android open, where every developer has to pay money and, you know, send all their credentials.
85:16
Yeah, dude, it's just, and I think, you know, I was kind of looking at this Telegram incident the other day.
85:23
I don't know if you really knew that this happened, like, three or four days ago.
85:27
So Apple removed it from the App Store, and it was, like, 18 hours or 12 hours or something.
85:34
And it came back, but it was because of some sort of incident within Telegram, which probably was an incident that was, you know, not good.
85:45
But it really, once again, shows how the gatekeepers gatekeep, you know, and if you didn't already have Telegram installed, I mean, I'm not an advocate for
using Telegram.
85:56
I think it's a shitty application.
85:57
I wouldn't trust it.
85:58
I wouldn't use it.
85:59
But.
86:01
But a lot of people, especially if you're an iPhone user,
86:03
you don't have the ability to install Telegram unless it's through the App Store.
86:09
Yeah.
86:10
Or you create a developer account.
86:13
Right.
86:13
But, I mean, like, most people are not doing that, right?
86:18
So whereas, you know, what I love about Android,
86:22
which is what I love about Linux, too,
86:24
is you can just install and just have the things you want.
86:28
And BSD and, you know, anything that's set up like that.
86:31
So I think, you know, this kind of falls in line with that ethos
86:35
of just being like, look, you know, you can just use it if you want to.
86:38
It's up to you, though, to run the hardware or software that you can install it on.
86:42
And that means generally you kind of have to choose a different path
86:46
than, you know, the dictators, whether it's Google or Apple or Microsoft even, too.
86:53
I probably – I could foresee a time down the road at some point
86:58
where Microsoft probably even starts to look –
87:00
down they all have their own software stores you know and you know you know if you want to install
87:07
this it's like it's risky you should only install it from the our app store it's like well it's not
87:11
in your app store it's like because you're not going to run it then you know like uh okay windows
87:17
11 gets pretty close to that right it's it's like the the setting for enabling unsigned
87:25
executables is getting deeper and deeper and harder and harder harder and harder yeah so
87:30
and that way and apparently google will allow you this is the thing they will allow you to install
87:39
it even after this change goes into effect but you have to um there's like a wait out period of like
87:46
24 hours or something and you have to like go in i don't know if it's like a developer setting it's
87:51
probably not even that sophisticated but it's like something that you have to opt in and say like
87:54
yes i understand what i'm doing but then they make you wait you're in a timeout i think for 24 hours
87:59
and
88:00
then you can install this apk file or something and i'm like what yeah when i first heard about
88:06
that i i just thought it was the stupidest thing i'd ever heard then someone someone said it was
88:13
because of scams and i had to think about that for a while but then it kind of made sense to me
88:19
like that well sure a good stop gap for someone that was on the phone being told to install an
88:25
sure that's big trying to be small i'm not like i understand some of the reasoning behind it but
88:31
at the same time too uh it's it's very controlling yeah yeah it shouldn't be like it it if anything
88:41
it should be like okay run adb yeah i fucking know what i'm doing back off yeah yeah yeah because i
88:46
mean that's pretty much what you have to do you know and it just makes me that much more
88:51
uh proponent of freedom tech in general and i say i say freedom tech is just any tech that allows
89:00
individual people to install freely and and and freely communicate and whether that's through
89:08
direct message or group chats or or any other messaging way to be able to communicate that's
89:14
encrypted by default yep so there's no gatekeeper that's giving you permission to communicate with
89:21
that friend or family member or you know someone might you might be helping out of a bad situation
89:27
that should just remain a conversation between you and that person could be any number of scenarios
89:33
it you know and it's like always this message of well we have to verify everyone and everything
89:40
it's because terrorists and because of pedos you know it's like well no i'm i am also anti-terrorist
89:46
and anti-pedo but like we don't have to lock everyone down all the you know all the time
89:51
and so anything that circumvents that or bucks the system uh i'm usually four so you know that's where
89:59
it
90:00
i think reticulum has like a lot of uh a lot of characteristics that attract me to it just based
90:07
off of its fundamentals of you know encrypted by default it can run on like literally anything
90:12
has multiple ways to communicate or you know transmit the information and um i i that's one
90:20
of the three i mean that's what kind of drew me initially over to like mesh tastic was like you
90:24
could just have this little radio in your pocket you could have another radio like up on your roof
90:28
or on your car and you can talk to people like all over the place even if it's like cell service goes
90:33
out yep or there's no internet at all yeah you know yes it's line of sight it's radio uh but you know
90:41
that just means we need more people running them yep i yeah i don't know my
90:48
the i don't know they all run on the same frequency so yeah you could jam it i don't know you could
90:53
jam it and we know that you could but i mean technically it's illegal right well unless
90:58
unless you're the one making the rules that's what you
90:59
you
91:00
yeah fair point yeah i don't know fair point to me the thing about reticulum that that i think is
91:10
is the big value that it brings is everyone is treated the same and everyone can
91:26
uh present an entity on the network that is the entity they want to present right so right you can
91:33
uh you can host a page you can put whatever you want on there like and and it's it's your
91:40
connection it's your identity it's uh no one can take it unless they physically take your device
91:45
you know right and i i think that that that's such a valuable thing because i mean if you think about
91:52
like setting up a web page today right you know like like that was the big freeing thing of the
91:58
internet is like oh i can set up a blog
92:00
and I can tell the world about
my cat.
92:03
My cat.
92:04
Like, look at Grumpy Cat.
92:05
Everyone is amazing.
92:06
My Pokemon kind of election.
92:08
You know, whatever.
92:09
Whatever you're into.
92:10
Yeah.
92:12
But to do that,
92:13
like you need a public IP address.
92:16
You need a domain.
92:17
You know, you need,
92:18
now you need like TLS certificates.
92:21
You need these so many things
92:22
that are from these centralized entities
92:26
that can just be ripped out from under you
92:27
and you have no say in it whatsoever.
92:30
You know, reticulum gets rid of all of those.
92:33
It's just your, you know,
92:36
your cryptographic identity and that's it.
92:39
That's it.
92:41
And I, you know,
92:42
kind of going back to earlier,
92:44
like I was talking about Tor earlier.
92:46
I mean, that's the only other thing I could think of.
92:47
And that's,
92:50
gets harder and harder
92:51
the more Guardian nodes,
92:54
nation states operate,
92:56
but where you could like truly host something
92:59
that's kind of crazy.
92:59
that's amazing because he's dead.
92:59
It's prueba.
92:59
you know,
93:00
you know out there without asking permission you'd like the hidden services yeah with a
93:06
hidden service or something right it could just be a raspberry pi it could be a computer running
93:10
and you want to put your banana bread recipes up there and put it out there it's like you can but
93:15
um it's still very reliant on uh the internet number one you have to be connected to uh an
93:24
entry node and yeah it's you know um i guess maybe like i think people go to tor for a lot
93:34
of different reasons but i think this has a different vibe to it reticulum has more of like a
93:41
probably because it wasn't created by the government to hide ca cia operatives in a network
93:48
cloud right this was kind of born out of something that seems more to me i kind of go back to that
93:53
like retro feeling of having one-to-one or one-to-few conversations and interactions
94:00
interactions like reminding me of like the bbs days and stuff where it's not like i'm not trying
94:04
to broadcast something to an entire world or something it's maybe within a certain
94:09
group of individuals or people that maybe just share an interest or something in this
94:14
like particular topic maybe you're you know really into a certain uh hobby or something that you just
94:23
want to share you know it's like okay cool uh where you can just host it it doesn't cost you
94:29
anything and it's kind of it actually kind of puts the fun back in the network again like sharing on
94:36
the network i guess yeah plus you know if if your connection if you're if your broader connection
94:44
breaks right like right all of a sudden i don't have an isp or something right i can run an ethernet
94:52
cable to wherever i want to have another node or right like or do directional you know cheap
94:58
yep
95:00
60 direction yep which are great those things are awesome by the way uh those things work really
95:05
well and that is really neat it kind of reminds me i've talked about i was talking about it with
95:12
someone the other day i think it was um i i think you might have even been there when i was talking
95:18
about cuba the cuba yeah cubans how they have like i mean it's more of like a mesh net mesh network
95:23
but it's like their own internet you know and they're just doing that wi-fi routers they're
95:27
just you know i remember years and years ago i thought it would be cool to try to convince people
95:33
to set up these used to buy these uh cheap enterprise computers that were being recycled
95:39
through micro center uh and it's like dude you just like turn these into like wireless mesh nodes and
95:46
just have our own network you know how cool would that be i mean obviously it's you know a lot to
95:51
ask people that but something like this where you can install on your phone you can install a little
95:55
device it's a little power you know it seems like a easier
95:59
you
96:01
ask of people to try to experiment with yeah you know and that's really cool so
96:07
well we'll have to we'll have to get you and mark on sometime oh i don't i don't know he he's kind
96:14
of he's not he's not a uh he gets uh is there any i feel for him yeah there's a lot of there's
96:24
kind of like this archetype of people who create these really amazing things and then people glom
96:30
onto it and then the the person gets inundated with you know requests and yeah bugs and features
96:41
and like i'm guilty of you know bugging myself like i've i've i've been like hey what about and
96:49
you know have you ever thought about like putting sunglasses on it yeah and and you know from my
96:55
perspective it's just me but but you know he's sure sure
97:00
shitload from all over the place and it uh i think you kind of get chased off of your own
97:06
platform you know which has got to be a weird shitty kind of thing but happen to sasoshi
97:12
nakamoto you know what i mean i'm kidding i don't you know who really knows uh i just mean like i
97:20
can kind of i can kind of see that um is there like what what's your feeling about the future
97:28
of reticulum with a lot of it hinging on mark like if if mark were hit by a bus you know is there
97:34
is there a team is there people that can will pick this torch up and keep going i mean i so yeah yeah
97:41
i don't know there's there's a a page on the in the the reticulum manual is like the the bible right
97:49
yeah that's the definitive like highly recommend reading it it's okay it's excellent but there's
97:54
there's a section called um the zen of reticulum and it it kind of
98:01
talks about this
98:02
where you know
98:03
like the
98:05
the reference implementation
98:07
is
98:08
is basically like
98:09
like feature complete
98:10
it's like
98:12
this
98:13
this is what
98:13
you know
98:14
I set out
98:15
and when I say I
98:16
I mean Mark
98:17
right right
98:18
like is what he set out
98:19
to build
98:20
and it's
98:21
it's
98:23
like
98:25
he's going to continue
98:26
to work on
98:27
on the reference
98:27
implementation
98:28
but like
98:30
like that's it
98:31
it's
98:31
you know
98:32
it is what it is now
98:33
yeah
98:34
like do what you will
98:35
and
98:36
yeah
98:36
so it's
98:37
it's kind of like
98:39
it's a good vibe
98:40
code
98:40
vibe code your apps bro
98:42
oh god
98:44
so
98:44
yeah the
98:45
like
98:46
the reference
98:46
implementation
98:47
is at a point
98:48
where it is
98:48
it is
98:50
it is what it is
98:51
okay
98:51
and I think if
98:52
you know if
98:53
if
98:56
Mark
98:56
walked away from it
98:57
tomorrow
98:58
like
98:59
the whole thing
99:00
is is totally fine like it's gotcha okay you know the the the nodes that are on there now
99:05
will continue to hum along like right there's no controlling entity there's no you know you know
99:11
people people will take the code and patch it and and you know do things with it or right or use
99:17
reticulum go or any of these right right of implantation so it's i guess the the cat's out
99:24
of the bag i guess it's the good yeah you know so it's uh i i don't know i see it as kind of
99:30
unstoppable at this point it's it's just it does it have um i mean you're probably spent more time
99:38
on there than anyone i know is it like kind of picking up around the globe is it kind of it got
99:45
international like you know adoption or is it still kind of slowly making its way it's like around so
99:53
you know it's language and it's hard to say yeah like because you don't like no one
100:00
No single node has a complete picture of the network, right?
100:05
Right.
100:05
So you also don't really know how big it is.
100:07
Right.
100:07
And so, plus, you know, you have the ability to create completely isolated networks, right?
100:13
Right.
100:14
Yeah, that's true, too.
100:16
Who knows?
100:17
But, you know, based off of the announced stream, you know, I'll peruse through there every couple weeks or so.
100:28
And, like, you always see, like, pages in, like, Russian or, you know, some other language.
100:35
There's Spanish pages.
100:39
There's a bunch of different languages.
100:40
I don't know that I've seen one in Arabic.
100:43
Maybe I have.
100:44
I can't remember.
100:45
It's pretty cool, though.
100:46
I mean, because it's, you know.
100:47
So based off of that, you know, there's quite a lot of coverage.
100:52
Right.
100:52
But I've personally talked to, you know, people who are, you know, in Europe.
101:00
and New Zealand and Spain.
101:06
There's, I guess, yeah.
101:08
They're all over the place.
101:09
Yeah.
101:10
So, yeah.
101:13
I think it's quite, it's definitely picking up steam.
101:17
So like the main RRC room, there's, you know,
101:23
on a typical day there will be like probably
101:24
it's like 70 people in there at the peak.
101:30
And it's not like super active all the time,
101:34
but there's a lot of conversation about, you know,
101:37
what's going on.
101:38
Can you create, is it just like one main room?
101:42
Is there different rooms?
101:43
Can you host RRCs?
101:46
Yep.
101:46
Oh, you can.
101:47
Yep.
101:47
So it's just another, you know,
101:51
just another node on the network basically.
101:54
Okay.
101:54
So on any machine that you have,
101:55
like you could fire up the RRC daemon, RCD.
102:00
And then you just, you know, like you can configure rooms,
102:03
you can configure like the admin kind of aspect of it.
102:08
So if you want it to be like registered,
102:10
which I don't know exactly what.
102:12
Like what the benefit is or does it?
102:14
Well, I think it's kind of like akin to IRC,
102:17
like the ChanServe where you register a room.
102:21
Yeah, okay.
102:21
I'm not 100% sure.
102:22
Okay, interesting, yep.
102:25
You know, so I have, there's actually one on here.
102:29
We're on RRC, Damon, but obviously it's offline.
102:33
Yeah, but we'll have to set it.
102:35
We'll have to get connected.
102:36
I'd like to run an RRC room just for the podcast.
102:40
I think it'd be fun because you can be in multiple.
102:42
I presume you could be in multiples, right?
102:45
Multiple servers, multiple rooms per server.
102:47
I mean, it's just like RRC.
102:50
You've got like Freenode and OFTC.
102:52
Yeah.
102:52
Freenode, Jesus.
102:53
Right, Freenode, man.
102:54
Holy cow.
102:55
Bringing back some memories.
102:57
Yeah.
102:58
It's Liberia, Liberia, Liberia.
103:00
LibreChat.
103:01
Yep.
103:02
I think in college maybe I was using Merck, M-I-R-C back in the day.
103:13
And then, oh, I know.
103:15
On Linux, I used XChat forever.
103:19
It was, I don't even know if it's still, it was the default like IRC chat
103:24
and like in Gnome and a lot of Gnome desktops.
103:27
So, I think I was using that for a long time.
103:30
But I think that could possibly be the fact that like the reason why I'm asking
103:37
about that stuff is people need a reason to use something.
103:42
Sure.
103:42
And going on and reading some people's, you know, personal pages and stuff is cool.
103:47
But I think communication is probably like a big attraction point.
103:51
So, if you could have something that anyone, well, again, not anyone.
103:55
You got to be on Android, guys.
103:56
Sorry.
103:57
Or at least, you know, not.
103:59
Not.
104:00
not ios but you could install mesh chat x that's like the easiest barrier to get in and i i can
104:09
you connect to irc i wonder through i think i think it has our it looks like you can add a hub
104:15
you can discover you can even host off here you can is it called a hub yep oh dude this app is
104:21
pretty cool yeah it's uh that's pretty sick man so we could yeah we might sell one up then i think
104:29
that's something we should uh experiment with um all uh all because i would i i presume that's
104:36
something that you need whatever starts the hub probably needs to be online all the time right
104:41
well i mean so because it's that demon has to be running to run to serve the kind of like with
104:47
what i was saying with nomad net if if you don't have a local rnsd running it will build build one
104:55
off in the in the background right oh really okay so
104:58
so
105:01
i wouldn't want to host it like off my phone though because my phone could be off it could
105:04
die i think i think the app has to be open and active you know for it to be connected
105:09
but a computer that's connected all the time yeah and then so you would you would just put in
105:15
the rc daemon uh kids can't remember the guy's handle the guy that made it okay but it's it's
105:24
on github it's like kw1c something okay um yeah just search it up yeah yeah and then uh so you you run
105:33
the daemon and then that's it like you're you have a hub going so you you need to tell reticulum rnsd
105:41
like what your outbound interfaces are okay right so you would you could use mesh chat x's you know
105:50
discovery feature or rns recipes discover.rns recipes um to find a list of of nodes that you
105:59
can
106:00
connect to, like transport nodes that you can
106:02
connect to. And then once it's on there,
106:04
it'll start up, it'll
106:07
announce, and then
106:08
anyone can connect to it.
106:11
I'm totally doing that.
106:12
It's super, super easy. You could just set that up on
106:14
a Linux LXC, or a
106:16
Plexmox LXC, and
106:18
just install it there. Because that would be
106:20
something in my home lab that would just be on
106:22
all the time.
106:25
Search, just
106:25
search for... I wonder if there's even like a
106:30
helper script template, but I mean, I could just
106:31
install it in a...
106:33
There might be a Docker thing already.
106:36
Yes. I was just
106:38
going to see if there was...
106:40
Is it RNSD?
106:42
Yeah, or
106:44
NomadNet, or...
106:45
Yeah, let me just do that. Let me see.
106:51
Panic when running
106:53
Nomad inside a
106:55
Proxmox LXC container.
106:58
I'll have to research...
107:00
but it looks like there is I mean there's definitely um yeah it'd be it'd be trivial
107:06
to set up all you need yeah I was gonna say I would just install it can project nomad run in
107:11
lxc I'm sure it can run anything because I just set up like a Ubuntu server right or something
107:15
like that yeah or docker I could just run it in docker too um but I'm thinking about like
107:21
you know the conversation that you and I were having before we hit the record button about
107:26
matrix right it's a it's a royal pain in the ass to host your own which is why I haven't really done
107:34
it yet and it the the easiest way is if you can have a server exposed to the internet where it can
107:39
broadcast this IP address there are probably ways to get around that but you know ideally you'd
107:45
probably run it on like a virtual private server or some sort of dedicated server but now you have
107:50
this cost overhead just to host something whereas you know something like this is literally could
107:56
be running without a domain name
108:00
i mean like you said just it's just python script right you install it and just it's just running
108:05
and you don't even have to there is no tunnel there's no dns there's not you don't have to
108:11
set up anything nope no port forwarding no port forwarding just goes all right this is the way
108:18
all right this is the way i like it sweet see now it's all clicking with me excellent when we're out
108:23
drinking and eating and we have other conversations i'm like yeah i'm getting pieces of it pizza but
108:28
pizza but now i'm like sitting as we're sitting down i'm like so we finally got to like what i
108:32
want to use it for and i think that's it i think it's running an rc rrc uh a server but really it's
108:41
the demon and setting it up so it can be found and uh set up some some rooms because right now we're
108:49
running our matrix just off of matrix.org which means we don't really have a server so each server is just
108:56
a chat room as opposed to like running your own server you can have whatever
108:59
channel is just so we need to add more Recht.
109:00
channels you want i mean we could set up additional you know rooms but i don't want to do it that way
109:05
it's a pain um and i don't want to host because i don't want to i'd rather self-host and it's like
109:12
i said it's a pain in the butt self-host um i'm sure it's doable without exposing your public ip
109:17
but i know it's like just kind of yeah i don't know i think it'd be i think it'd be better and
109:24
more decentralized to do it on reticulum because all we do is type i mean can you can you put images
109:31
in ours and the rrc uh it could be that mesh chat x will display them yeah but we have to know if memes
109:38
will work you know find your roots and use the uh yeah use your ascii ascii arts people um seriously
109:47
though that's um yeah this is really cool i'm really i'm really stoked to kind of get back to
109:54
playing with this a little bit and actually with i think i think for a lot of people uh to to understand
110:00
and use new applications or tech is like what's the intention for what what what am i going to do
110:07
with it and um so what application people can use it for is like really big to get people to like oh
110:13
yeah click that i want to try it now you know um so yeah i think i think uh i think i've got a good
110:21
starting point at least and fortunately uh aaron's my friend so i can just bug him with all my
110:29
questions so we can uh i can try to get this thing going uh up and running soon let's see someone
110:34
just tagged me in a cautionary tale for
anyone using ghost cough cough oh yeah well i'm not
110:39
self-hosting it i'm paying someone else to do it so it's fine it looks like it looks like someone
110:44
just posted a bulletin uh about a ghost exploit cbe cbe uh yep uh it's part of the same campaign
110:55
anyway i'll have to i'll have to look at this i was at it looks like
110:59
it looks like
111:00
zapier integration stuff um but yeah this is i like hacker stuff so this is pretty cool
111:06
even though you're not like really hacker man you can just install an app or two
111:09
and kind of looks like be off to the races and i think that that makes it a lot easier for people
111:14
to get on board yep because you know it has it yeah uh it has a low bar uh as far as technical
111:28
requirements to put something out onto the internet right but it's still it's still a pretty
111:34
high bar because the you know the the clients are are not exactly user-friendly you know nomad
111:43
net is is console right it's all console based so yeah that automatically precludes a lot of people
111:49
um but i think you know it's just a matter of time before things become more user-friendly where
111:58
you know you've got
112:01
apps like
112:02
MeshChat X that are
112:03
they fit everything under the sun
112:06
into that app and if it was just
112:08
a core set of features it would be
112:11
way more approachable
112:12
I think. Sure. It is a bit
112:14
overwhelming when you open it up and
112:16
click on that hamburger menu and start seeing
112:18
and every menu has got then
112:20
also sub menus as well
112:22
which for me it's cool because
112:24
I like
112:26
user interfaces like this
112:29
but I could
112:30
see how it'd be overwhelming if you didn't have like
112:32
at least a base understanding of like what all of
112:34
this stuff does to know well what do
112:36
I do do I connect do I discover or
112:38
do I host like I don't know but you know it's like
112:40
once you start connecting the dots you're like oh okay
112:41
I start to understand what's going on here
112:45
and
112:47
I could hear my animals
112:48
running across the floor upstairs it's hilarious
112:51
but yeah
112:52
this is yeah oh
112:54
that was the other thing I was going to ask you about the
112:56
Nana's Corner is that
112:58
is that the like one of the words
113:00
first i think that's the first site you took me to oh maybe or wait is it nana's corner what did
113:05
you bring me to or uh every time i think about it i think of like um i wonder if i could just
113:11
pull it up yeah it must be yeah oh nana's library yeah yeah it's one of the okay i'm like the there's
113:19
a there's a few different library uh pages where where people are posting ebooks of various things
113:25
yeah copies of uh gutenberg and and yeah textbooks uh of course it doesn't open for me on here books
113:34
yeah i'll have to play around with that and see what's up with that um well cool yeah
113:44
yeah i'll have to play around with this i want to play the nomad net again though i i uh i was
113:50
struggling a little bit when i first installed it because i also just didn't know like well i'm like
113:53
what does it do what am i supposed to do with it you know um well cool man thanks for
114:00
i want to i want to have you back for other stuff all right but i wanted to get this out so people
114:06
could start like going out and downloading stuff and start you know now that we actually have like
114:12
a reason to maybe try it as a community and like i said i mean we got how many are you in the matrix
114:17
chat right now 482 of you if we can get 10 of you 10 to join uh the rrc once we get it set up
114:25
that'd be a pretty good decent little group of people you know uh all communicating
114:32
over reticulum with uh without asking for permission from anybody so uh that'll maybe
114:39
that'll be our goal we can see if we get 10 of you nerds in the in the troll room to yeah jump on
114:45
once we get it set up so i like it yeah thanks for coming on man yeah uh we'll we'll have you back
114:51
again and i'd like to get i'd like to get um uh nathan on too i think yeah i'd like to get some of uh
115:00
some of his knowledge dropped out there. Um, he's another,
115:03
another friend in the, in the, in the crew, um, that, um,
115:09
has a lot of good stuff. So until next time,
115:12
I'll catch you guys, uh, in the future.
115:15
I'm actually trying to jump back over to my, my roadcasters.
115:20
So I can actually, uh, I can actually end this.
115:22
So we'll catch you in the next episode. All right, later.
115:30
Keep me down. I'm going. And if I ever fail, just know I'll go again.
115:32
I never quit. Cause I know that every loss may lead to another win.
115:35
I'm going off. I bet when I land, they're going to tell me.