Organizational Change Is Exhausting
What We Cover
Why individuals can't change their organizations
Teresa shares a real email from a designer who wanted help training her PMs — and why she had to say no. Without executive sponsorship, organizational pain, and urgency, nothing moves.
The three conditions for change (Petra's framew…
Creating Experiences
Topics covered:
How Petra and Arne designed the Product at Heart Leadership Event across one and a half days, including a farm excursion, and a leadership improv workshop
Why you can't curate an experience that makes everyone happy — and what to do instead
Designing for choice: self-select pat…
AI-Shaped Problems
What you'll hear:
The daily habit Teresa used to go from feeling behind to using AI confidently every day
Why starting with terrible results is actually the point
How to filter out the noise (MCP servers, plugins, new apps) and stay focused on what matters
Why finding community — whether that…
Stepping Into Leadership
What You'll Learn
Why understanding your organization's definition of leadership is the essential first step — and how to find it even when it's not documented
How practicing "saying no well" builds a core leadership muscle that translates at every level
What directional clarity actually means…
Quality Of Evidence
What We Cover in This Episode
Why product teams are drowning in data — but still making uninformed decisions
The danger of projecting your own expertise onto low-quality signals
Teresa's "ladder of evidence" framework: as effort goes up, so does value
Henrik Kniberg's triangle (Petra's coachi…
Delivery Isn't Free
Show Notes
Petra Wille and Teresa Torres take on the popular claim that AI has made software delivery essentially free — and explain why that framing falls apart the moment you care about shipping something real.
Why "building a single thing" getting cheaper doesn't mean delivery is cheaper — e…
#66 Petra Wille - How to lead a product org in the age of AI
Petra Wille thinks measuring your team's token usage is one of the worst things a leader can do right now. She explains what to measure instead.Petra is a product leadership coach, author of STRONG Product People, and co-organizer of Product at Heart, one of Europe's largest product conferences. Sh…
Trash Can Tracking
Key takeaways
Trash can tracking means placing trash can symbols along your discovery and delivery boards so that discarded work is tracked as deliberately as delivered work.
It helps answer two questions leaders and teams ask often: "Are we innovating enough?" and "Is our discovery actually wo…
Unpacking Innovation
In this episode
The problem with "innovation" as a target. Teresa explains why the word bothers her: when teams optimize for novel ways to serve customers, they often land on complex solutions that aren't the best ones. Petra reframes innovation as reduction — leaving things out, minimizing step…
Recorded Conversations
Key Takeaways
Your memory is not a recording — Teresa's transcripts repeatedly showed her that her confident recollections didn't match what was actually said.
Use it on yourself first. Checking your own transcripts to spot blind spots feels very different from having someone use them against y…
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If I have seen further than others, it is by listening to podcasts and standing upon the shoulders of
giants.
‐ Isaac "Llamacorn" Newton
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