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Hello, I'm Corinna Harrod and this is the Monday Night Review.
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Hello and welcome to episode 229 of the Monday Night Review.
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How are you all doing?
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I have had a bit of a rubbish morning. I'm
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not going to lie. I don't want to sugarcoat things,
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but also I'm aware. Please let me know. Please know
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that I'm aware of how this sounds because it is
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a luxury to spend Monday morning in bed. I've been
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really struggling to get out of bed recently. Now, people
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with depression will know that that is... I don't necessarily
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feel particularly depressed, but it is... So hard. And I
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know that lots of people say, well, of course it's
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very hard to get out of bed. Lots of people
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would stay in bed if they could. Not the same.
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Not the same. It's a bit like when you are pregnant.
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There's a certain tiredness you get when you're pregnant. It
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doesn't mean that you're tired than everyone else. But there
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is a feeling behind the tiredness when you're pregnant. A
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desperation behind the tiredness when you're pregnant. And then again,
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there's a specific... desperation of tiredness when you have a newborn,
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which everyone goes, well, you know, everyone's tired. I think
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the thing that we overlook is, yes, when you have
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a newborn, you're very tired, but also your body has
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just gone through the equivalent of a car accident. And
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most people, if they'd been through that physical experience, would
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be sent to bed for a I'm not saying anything,
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you know, I'm just saying at the moment, I'm finding
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it really difficult to get out of bed and I
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don't really know how to fix it. I'm a fixer.
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I like to work out systems of how to make
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things better and I just don't know. Now, obviously, I've
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had two weeks of kids home for half term. My
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husband's here today. Tomorrow, he'll go to London. I've got
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a work event. I've got three kids to get to school.
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So there'll be no option to stay in bed. And
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maybe that's what I need, the no option. Once I'm up,
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it's fine. It is literally the transition from bed to
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dress that I just dread every day. So that's where
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we are. And also what I hate is it's a
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waste of a day. Monday is quite a good work
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day for me because, as I said, Joe's here. So
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I can quite often hole up in my office. He's
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a very good feeder. So he'll make lunch. He walks
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the dogs. So I can get some solid work time.
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And I've just, it feels like such a waste. It's
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part of the reason, part of the reason I don't
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go out all night anymore is that I remember the
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last time, well, the last couple of times I was
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up when the sun came up. And I just thought, oh,
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this is so depressing. Something so depressing. You get to
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a stage where you're like, oh, the birds are singing.
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This is too much. And I don't know what did it,
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because I used to love staying up all night. And
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I do get to a certain point. If I don't
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go to bed between 10 and 11, I sort of,
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my brain starts going, right, well, let's get loads of
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stuff done while everyone else is asleep. Let's huddle down
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and side quest all over the internet for weird shit.
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Which works well if you're doing this podcast. Anyway, enough
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of my woes. I hope everyone has had a good Halloween.
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I'm going to call it a Halloween break. I know
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that not everyone has kids. Not everyone likes Halloween. But
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I feel like because of Halloween, people sort of take
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their foot off the gas a little bit. My kids
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love Halloween. So we had a great Halloween. And... We
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did the pumpkin patch, which they love. And the kids
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had parties, Halloween parties. And my sister and my nephews
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and my brother-in-law were down for a week. So we
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did lots of stuff. We went and saw the new
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Ghost movie. Oh my God. The new Ghost movie. I
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thought I wasn't going to
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like it. I lolled. Never
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laugh out loud at films. But I laughed out loud
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at this one. It's really nice. If someone said, we've
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got to go again, I'd happily go again. I thought
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it was really good. So that's my film recommendation. If
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you've got... I mean, my nine-year-old loved it. My 14-year-old
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loved it. It was great. I loved it. I'm 43.
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So we did some nice stuff. We still haven't got
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the heating on. How's everyone else doing? My husband just
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looked at the price of oil and was like, it's
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the highest it's ever been.
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Woo-hoo!
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No heating on for us. We've got lovely fires throughout
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our house though, so we'll probably start. We lit a
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fire last night. It was my eldest's 14th birthday yesterday.
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So we snuggled in. All the boys have been really
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into the traitors. So they watched the traitors and snuggled
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in and we lit a fire. And that was quite
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cosy and nice. also have to say a huge congratulations
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to pod member uh stacy on the arrival of her
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lovely little bundle over on halloween i think a halloween
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baby uh so well done stacy giving birth is not
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for the faint of heart and i hope you're in
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a nice baby bubble i the problem with having kids
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birthdays is is that we spent quite a lot of
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time looking at all his previous birthdays on my phone.
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I just searched up November 1st. And I mean, whoever
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said the greatest superpower, or someone said one day with
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each of your babies as babies, but you know now
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what you know now, if you see what I mean.
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So it's stress-free. And there's one particular picture of my child,
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my eldest, and I can remember taking the picture. I
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can exactly remember the day. And because the nice thing about,
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because I've got one autumnal baby and two summer babies,
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the nice thing about an autumnal baby is you kind
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of get sorted for Christmas. You're a bit more up
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and running by Christmas. So you can do Christmassy stuff.
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I mean, my husband, we had a Christmas drinks party
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when my newborn was about five weeks old so I
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was definitely up and running but we we did a
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lot when they're tiny I wish also I wish I
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knew this you don't have to leave the house with
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them and do everything when they're tiny because they'll want
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to leave the house and do stuff for the rest
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of their lives so when they're newborn newborn we just
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and with my first one because it was dark and
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wet and horrid, we just snuggled and watched ITV3 dramas.
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There was a lot of Agatha Christie, Midsommar Murder, probably
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quite a lot of Murder, She Wrote. And we just
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snuggled in and I had my dog mouse, Pot Dog One,
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who was a dream, loved the baby. It was her baby, really.
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So we would just, the three of us, sit on
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the sofa, all coached in, and watch it. And at
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the time, your brain tells you these terrible things, like
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you're lazy, or you should be doing stuff. I mean,
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I think also, 14 years ago, Instagram was a different beast.
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So you didn't necessarily have people showing you their best
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of reels. There was more food in general. And you saw...
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your friends' posts, so you were like, oh, I like
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this person, I'll follow them, oh, and then I'll see
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their posts, what a novelty, so all of that, but
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I just had this always feeling of, I should be
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doing more, I should be achieving more, I should be,
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and I'm not very good at just being, even though
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that's what I want to be doing all the time,
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it's just lying on the sofa watching ITV3, so I
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can remember that day incredibly vividly, and Yeah, just one
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day with each of your babies as tiny babies. Knowing
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now what you know now and having your shit together.
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That would be pretty unbeatable. So, say, see, I hope
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you're in a baby bubble. You'll have plenty of time
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to get that. I mean, I will say, my baby's
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napped outside in their pram. My baby's napped outside. Their
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daytime naps were outside in their prams, whatever the weather.
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And....
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We did get some fresh air every day because that
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was part of the good thing about having the dog.
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I think Joe took three days paternity leave for our
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first one. so I was up and out and walking
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the dog and that is quite good because it means
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we used to go out go around the park back
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in job done so yeah get out a little bit
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if you can but don't feel bad for Lying around
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with the baby. Because you need it. So yes. We've
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had a very Halloweeny time. We go trick or treating
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around the village. One of the things that makes me
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feel guilty as a mother. Is we moved from a
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place in London. Our street in London. And the surrounding
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streets in London. Were absolutely American level crazy. For trick
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or treating. And my kids are obsessed with Halloween. And
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we've moved them to a village. Which is very good.
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But.
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In rural terms, very good village for trick-or-treating. But we
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are on the edge of the village and trick-or-treaters don't
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come down here. So I think the boys feel a
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little bit like they would like trick-or-treaters to come to us.
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But anyway, my mum lives in the village. So we
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walk up the hill, go to my mum, say hi,
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and then we trick-or-treat round. She likes to hand out
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sweets at her house so that she can see what
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the kids are wearing. Because also for her... When she lived,
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before she moved, she lived on the other side of
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the village. And so she never had trick-or-treaters when we
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were young. We never went out trick-or-treating and it wasn't
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such a big deal. So she's now, it's her first
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trick-or-treating house as well. So she likes to see what
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all the kids are wearing. And then she makes us
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a delicious supper and we play Halloween bingo, which she
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bought in Sainsbury's and is a real banger. We all
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love it. So that's become a really nice Halloween tradition.
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And then the next day is my baby boy's birthday. Also,
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we had to spend the whole of Halloween with me saying,
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this time, 14 years ago, which the child is very
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tolerant about, but it just blows my mind to have
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a 14-year-old. He's about to edge up taller than me.
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I mean, I've got a couple of centimetres on him,
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but it'll happen before I know it. And what I...
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quite like about this time of year, it's very uncool
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of me, it's very, I'm a pro-animal person, pro-people person,
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I love fireworks, I love bonfire night, I love fireworks,
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and again, I think part of that comes from when
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the kids were little, and you have Halloween, and they
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were so obsessed with Halloween, so there's this pressure to
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do it well, and their costumes right, and decorate the
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house enough, and even during COVID, I made a COVID-friendly
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Halloween trail for all the kids at school so that
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they were in groups of five and they were safe
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and everything like that but just because they loved Halloween
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so much it felt unfair that they should miss out
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and then it would be my eldest birthday and there's
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all that pressure to make sure he has a good
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day and he gets what he wants and all of
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that and then I would and I would just find
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that by bonfire night I would be so up for
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standing next to a bonfire watching fireworks. And our house
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in London was opposite a park that had the best
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fireworks display ever. It was so good. And we could
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sit in what was our bedroom and then later became
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my son's bedroom on the toppish floor of our house.
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We could all sit on the sofa in a row
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and get free fireworks display. And it was so good
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because when the babies were little, when
we moved to
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that house, Ned was two. Ned was two and a half.
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Jim was nine months. Jack didn't exist yet. And so
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you sort of don't want to be taking them out
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for a bonfire night at that age. But we could
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just sit there and watch it. And it was so fun.
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And then bloody COVID. They stopped doing it and they've
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never started doing it again. Made me really sad because
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one of the first things I remember doing with Joe
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when we first met, we first met in the summer.
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And that autumn, he had friends that lived in houses
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around the park and they used to block it off
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so that you had to go through a certain gate
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to get in with your ticket to the fireworks. But
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because we knew a friend who lived on the park,
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we could go through and they would have drinks at
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their house and we'd all stand in their garden and
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watch the fireworks. And it was just one of those
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things that when you're in your early 20s and your
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cool London boyfriend's got these friends and you can go
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and watch the fireworks, it was really, it's just a
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really seminal point of, my relationship with Germans oh they've
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stopped it no joy I was reading about it to
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see whether they'd started it again and they said that
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in 2000 2023 they tried to do a ethical laser
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show a light show but that didn't take off so
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they only did it once and I totally get that
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there's animals I lived with my pod dog one absolutely
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hated fireworks and would spend quite a lot of October
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and November with a sock over her ears. If you
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do have a dog that doesn't like fireworks, I do
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recommend chopping the toes off a sock. Then you can
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put it over their ears and it keeps their ears
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down and it muffles it. It definitely worked for her,
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made it better. And I have friends whose pets need Valium.
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I totally get it. There's a time and a place.
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But I actually think one night, go for it and
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then stop but I would say that living in London
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during Diwali is noisy for fireworks it's not just fireworks
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night and the problem is is that not everyone is
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good with fireworks I get it I get it you
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don't need to tell me why fireworks are a problem
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but I love them I think they're beautiful I wouldn't
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mind if they were soundless um I think they're lovely
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I think there's something communal about everyone looking at these
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beautiful things in the sky that we've made I think
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they look great from planes I think having a big
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bonfire that everyone gathers around, there is something communal and
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nice about it that I'm unwilling to let go. And
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I think part of the reason I'm struggling to get
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out of bed is just everything is so grindingly awful.
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Everything is so expensive. It's difficult enough to be living
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in this world. Raising children with questions is so depressing.
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And when you cut out things like bonfire night, It's like, well,
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should we have any joy at all? And I'm aware
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that there's health and safety, and I know that animals
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struggle and all of that, but is there a middle
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ground between nothing? Anyway, it's my rant about bonfires, but
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I love it. Also, I don't know, Ned was supposed
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to be born on the 5th of November, so there's
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just this whole, I don't know, I feel very emotionally
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attached to Bonfire Night. And I'm sad about it. I'm
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going to be away in Harrogate next weekend. So I'm
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hoping that Harrogate... Harrogate, are you going to do some
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fireworks for me? We're going on a ghost tour on
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Friday night and we're going for an afternoon tea. So
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there's room, Harrogate, for some bonfire fireworks shenanigans. Just letting
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you know. And speaking of that, every year since I
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started this podcast, I have meant to do this topic
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at this time of year And every year I have failed,
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--> 00:17:41.799
but not this year. No, no. And actually part of
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what's made me feel quite festive is this week I've
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been researching this. It felt like a really big topic
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because we all know how my brain works. It goes
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out and out and out. Zoom out, zoom out, zoom out.
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And I was about to start. We were back in
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the depths of the English monarchy for a while there,
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but I've clawed myself back. I also feel like when
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I do a history subject... I feel like somewhere in
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the ether, my father is clutching his head and wondering
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where he went wrong with his youngest child. But snuggle in.
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Snuggle in. Get cosy. Stacey, get the baby cosy. In fact,
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drop the baby off with me and you have a break.
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I'm a sucker for a newborn. I know that lots
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of people can live without the baby phase. Give me
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a newborn to nine months and I am in heaven.
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It's the night of the 4th of November, 1605. Beneath
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the Palace of Westminster in a cellar rented as a
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storeroom for firewood, a tall man in a heavy cloak
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is checking his work. Stacked behind the logs and bundles
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of kindling are 36 barrels of gunpowder, some two and
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a half tonnes of it, enough to turn the House
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of Lords into a crater. and to hurl its stones
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across the Thames. In about 24 hours, King James I
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will walk into the chamber above to open Parliament. His
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eldest son will be with him, his ministers, his bishops,
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his judges, and if everything goes to plan, none of
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them will walk out again. The man in the cloak
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is called John Johnson. He has a slow-burning fuse, which
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the same could be sent for me, a watch and
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a tinderbox. He's been waiting for this for over a year.
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He does not know that outside soldiers are already on
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their way. Today we are going to talk about the
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gunpowder plot. How a small band of English Catholics came
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within hours of changing the course of history and I
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would say the architecture of London. why they are so
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desperate to do so and how it all came crashing down.
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I bet there are quite a few of you in
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the UK who don't know the full story of this,
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but also for people who are not in the UK
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who maybe don't know what we do, why we do it,
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here you go. To understand the plot, we have to
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understand the England these men lived in, because the gunpowder
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plot was not born of madness out of nowhere, and
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it was not the only plot at the time. It
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was born of fear, grievance, and a very particular kind
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of hope that curdled. Rewind to the 1530s. I told
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you I went back. Henry VIII breaks with Rome. So
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he's not only famous for the sheer amount of wives
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he managed to get through, but also because he... breaks
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with Rome, makes himself the head of the English church,
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and a country that had been Catholic for nearly a
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thousand years begins a long and painful wrench. Under his
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son Edward, the Reformation goes further. Then under his daughter Mary,
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England swings back to Rome and Catholicism. She famously burns
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around 280 Protestants at the stake, earning herself the nickname
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Bloody Mary, which you've probably also heard of. I'd like
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to note as a sideline that compared to male monarchs
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before and after her, she really doesn't kill that many people.
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Seems a bit harsh. Also, her sister has a fair go.
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So I feel sorry for Bloody Mary. I mean, she
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did burn a lot of people at stake. But if
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we think about wars and raged and people beheaded and
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that kind of thing, revolts put down, she's really not
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doing that much. Then comes Elizabeth in 1558, who settles
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the church again as Protestant. For English Catholics, the Elizabethan
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decades were a slow squeeze. Attending Church of England services
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became compulsory and those who refused, known as recusants, were
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fined heavily, a shilling a week at first and
later
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far more. And also if you were gentry, you got
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fined a hell of a lot. Catholic priests were treated
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as traitors, saying mass could cost you your life. Hundreds
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of priests, many trained at seminaries on the continent, slipped
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into England in disguise and many were caught, hanged, drawn
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and quartered. Ordinary families who sheltered them risked their property
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and their necks. There were around 3 million people in
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England in 1570. Approximately 40,000 of them were Catholic. Elizabeth
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passed the religious settlement where anyone who was appointed to
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a public or church office had to swear an allegiance
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to the monarch as the head of church and state.
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The great houses of Catholic gentry built hiding places for
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these priests, tiny cramped chambers behind panelling and under staircases
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known as priest holes. Many survive today. A man named
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Nicholas Owen, a carpenter and a Jesuit lay brother, designed
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so many of them that he became a legend. He
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would later be tortured to death in the tower. Lovely.
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And the government had reasons for its suspicion, which is important.
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In 1570, the Pope had excommunicated Elizabeth, effectively declaring her
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subjects free of loyalty to her. And almost saying, although
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not in a very Catholic-y way, if you're Catholic, I've
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excommunicated her. She is therefore a baddie. And you could
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bump her off and be doing us all a favour.
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And that's probably fine. Plots to assassinate her, like the
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Babington plot of 1586, were real and they were happening
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all the time. And in 1588, Catholic Spain sent the
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Armada against England. To Elizabeth's ministers, Catholic meant a potential traitor.
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To English Catholics, the question was brutal. Could you be
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loyal to your queen and faithful to your church at
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the same time? Then in March 1603, Elizabeth dies childless
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at the age of 69. And there's a whole hoo-ha
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about who's... Luckily, she has been quite organised about this,
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unlike some monarchs. And the throne passes to her cousin,
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James VI of Scotland, who becomes James I of England.
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And the Catholics dare to hope.
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Why?
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Because James's mother was Mary, Queen of Scots. a Catholic
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who had been executed on Elizabeth's orders. James I's wife,
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Anne of Denmark, had flirted with Catholicism and James had
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sent signals, some of them vague, some of them encouraging,
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that he might ease the persecution. He was himself a Protestant,
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but his mother was staunchly Catholic and this led people
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to hope that perhaps he would be a bit more lenient.
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So Catholic gentry even paid their fines that they were
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having to pay for not going to church with a
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feeling of waiting out the storm. A bit like we're
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all feeling now with Donald Trump, just saying. But hope
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was short-lived. James was a convinced Protestant and quickly proved
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that tolerance had its limits. In 1604, he made it
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clear that he'd continue enforcing the laws against recusancy, But
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he also made it clear that rather than hanging, drawing
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and quartering people, he'd rather they just left the country.
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So you were more likely to be shipped out of
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the country, banished from the country than killed by James I.
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He ordered Catholic priests to leave the country and he
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continued with the fines. And for some Catholics, it felt
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like a door slamming in their faces just when it
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seemed to open. It's in this atmosphere in the spring
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of 1604 that a small group of men begin to
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talk about something far more drastic than prayer or petition.
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The story of the plot is the story of about
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13 men. This is not a gang of wild-eyed outsiders.
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Most of them were well-born, well-connected and in several cases
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closely related to each other. The leader, Robert Catesby, was
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born around 1573 into an old Warwickshire family, devout Catholic gentry.
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Contemporaries describe him as
tall, around six foot two, athletic,
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magnetic and charming. He definitely has the charisma of a leader,
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which I think is partly why this plot goes so far.
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Catesby had married a Protestant heiress, but when she dies,
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he goes back to Catholicism in a big way. He's
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basically radicalised and that is... modern parlance what this is
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we're basically looking at radicalized terrorists he'd been involved in
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the Essex rebellion against Elizabeth in 1601 he'd been wounded
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and heavily fined but escaped with his life it's thought
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it's implied basically that his charisma got him through And
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through losing his wife and his father, he'd emerged from
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it all more fervent and more embittered than before. Catesby
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had a gift, the sort of charisma that makes other
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men follow them somewhere they know they should not go.
430
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One of his fellow conspirators would later say that Catesby
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had a way of making you feel that to refuse
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him was to refuse God. In early 1604, Catesby gathered
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some trusted friends in a London inn, among them Thomas Winter,
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an educated, well-travelled man who'd been to Spain in search
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of help for English Catholics. John Wright, a famous swordsman,
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not in that way, one of the best in England,
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and Thomas Percy, a distant relative of the Earl of Northumberland,
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described as a tall, impressive figure, but known for his
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hot temper and a reputation for violence. By June 1604,
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he held a job as the king's gentleman pensioners, so
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basically a bodyguard to the king. And this gives him
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a reason to set up a London base and means
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that he has access to court. When they meet on
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the 20th of May in 1604, Percy famously says, quote,
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Shall we always gentlemen talk and never do anything? According
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to Winter's later confession, Catesby announced his idea to blow
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up the House of Lords with gunpowder, with the king
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and the lords and the commons inside it. The men
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had their doubts. Winter in particular argued that the plan
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would be terrible, that it would cost innocent lives and
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bring down yet worse persecution on the Catholics, which is
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very true. Catesby pressed on and Winter came round. And
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now we come to a man whose name, rather unfairly,
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has eclipsed the rest. Guy Fawkes, born in York in 1570.
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He's raised a Protestant and his father, a legal official,
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died when he was a boy. His mother remarries a
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Catholic and Guy converts. At about 23, he sold his
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inheritance and went to the Spanish Netherlands to fight for
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Catholic Spain against Dutch Protestants. So this is the thing.
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He's he's not just a converted catholic he is fought
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for years for the catholic cause he spent about a
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decade as a professional soldier taking part in the siege
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of calais in 1596 and he gained something very useful
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for a conspiracy expertise with explosives and a cool head
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under pressure In 1603, he travelled to Spain seeking support
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for the English Catholic cause with no success. They basically
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tried to persuade the King of Spain to come to
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England where the Catholic masses of England would meet them
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and then they would take over. But rightly so, the
470
00:30:20.420 --> 00:30:22.460
King of Spain didn't want to. He quite liked having
471
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.059
a good relationship with James I, so he thought that
472
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:28.880
was more important. I think it is a good call.
473
00:30:32.220 --> 00:30:35.619
In 1604, Thomas Winter, who knew him, brought him back
474
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:38.920
to England to help with Catesby's plan. Now, Fawkes is
475
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.259
an ideal recruit. He spent years abroad, so he's largely
476
00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:46.700
unknown in London. He's a soldier who understood gunpowder, and
477
00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:50.670
he was, by the accounts we have, resolute and deeply pious.
478
00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:54.289
He would move in with Thomas Percy at Westminster, acting
479
00:30:54.349 --> 00:30:59.619
as his servant, taking on the alias, John Johnson. He
480
00:30:59.660 --> 00:31:02.839
became the man trusted with the most dangerous work, guarding
481
00:31:02.859 --> 00:31:06.660
the cellar and on the night, lighting the fuse. Over
482
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:10.740
the following months, the circle
grew. Robert Wintour, Thomas's brother.
483
00:31:11.140 --> 00:31:15.660
Christopher Wright, John's brother. Thomas Bates, Catesby's servant, who learned
484
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:17.759
to the plot almost by accident and was drawn in.
485
00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:21.829
John Grant, a gentleman from Warwickshire in whose house, Norbury
486
00:31:21.869 --> 00:31:26.009
Manor in Warwickshire, a rebellion was to be gathered. Robert Keyes,
487
00:31:26.170 --> 00:31:30.720
an impoverished Catholic gentleman. Ambrose Rookwood, a young wealthy man
488
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.859
who was a skilled horseman and whose stables could supply
489
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.859
horses for the escape. And Sir Everard Digby, a rich, young,
490
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:41.750
devout Catholic knight whose money would fund the uprising that
491
00:31:41.769 --> 00:31:46.859
was to follow the explosion. Finally, Francis Tresham, Catesby's cousin,
492
00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:49.440
and as we'll see, a crucial figure in how this
493
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:53.670
all unraveled. And as for the priests, the Jesuits, Henry Garnet,
494
00:31:53.730 --> 00:31:57.349
the head of the Jesuit mission in England, and Oswald Tessimonde.
495
00:31:58.210 --> 00:32:01.089
learned of the plot in different ways tesman from catesby
496
00:32:01.170 --> 00:32:05.109
in confession garnett from tesman also under what he regarded
497
00:32:05.150 --> 00:32:08.650
the seal of confession garnett according to later accounts tried
498
00:32:08.809 --> 00:32:11.990
to dissuade catesby and wrote to rome asking the pope
499
00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:16.349
to forbid violent action but because the seal of confession
500
00:32:16.630 --> 00:32:19.910
he could not warn the authorities that decision would cost
501
00:32:19.930 --> 00:32:24.769
him his life And here's something I don't think lots
502
00:32:24.809 --> 00:32:28.170
of people think about when we think about the Gunpowder Plot.
503
00:32:28.369 --> 00:32:31.170
What exactly was the plan? It's a plan of two halves.
504
00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:35.019
The first was the explosion. We know about that. The second,
505
00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:38.579
which is often forgotten, is what was meant to happen after.
506
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.839
And partly why it's forgotten is, obviously, we never got
507
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:49.900
that far. In May 1604, Thomas Percy rented a modest
508
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.910
house next to the Palace of Westminster. Remember, he's one
509
00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:57.109
of the king's bodyguards, so this is all completely normal.
510
00:32:57.930 --> 00:33:00.369
And the conspirators' first idea was to dig a mine,
511
00:33:00.390 --> 00:33:05.269
a tunnel, from this house under the House of Lords.
512
00:33:06.369 --> 00:33:09.230
In the winter of 1604, as the story goes... they
513
00:33:09.269 --> 00:33:11.549
begin to dig, and it's gruelling. The walls of the
514
00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:15.869
old palace were
enormously thick, in some places nine feet.
515
00:33:16.410 --> 00:33:20.720
The men were gentlemen, not labourers. By the standard account,
516
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:23.960
they dug for weeks, working by candlelight and eating cold
517
00:33:24.019 --> 00:33:28.160
food to avoid drawing attention with smoke. Then, according to
518
00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:32.470
Fawkes's own later account, they heard a rumbling noise from
519
00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:36.150
above them. Terrified that they'd been discovered, they sent Fawkes
520
00:33:36.190 --> 00:33:39.170
to investigate. It turns out that it was the sound
521
00:33:39.230 --> 00:33:42.950
of a man clearing out a storeroom, a cellar that
522
00:33:42.990 --> 00:33:46.890
lay directly beneath the House of Lords, which was being let.
523
00:33:47.549 --> 00:33:51.170
This was an extraordinary stroke of luck. Percy immediately leased
524
00:33:51.210 --> 00:33:55.299
the cellar, a vaulted undercroft directly beneath the chamber. The
525
00:33:55.339 --> 00:33:59.539
mine was abandoned. Instead, they'd simply fill the cellar with gunpowder.
526
00:34:01.059 --> 00:34:04.269
Over the following months, the barrels came in. Gunpowder in
527
00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:07.210
the early 17th century was tightly controlled and Catesby and
528
00:34:07.230 --> 00:34:09.889
his men had to source it carefully from stocks of
529
00:34:09.929 --> 00:34:14.260
their own and from other supporters. But because James I
530
00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:18.179
had called off the war with Spain, there was quite
531
00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:22.420
a lot of it knocking around. So they had all
532
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.809
this gunpowder ready for the fight with Spain. The war
533
00:34:25.889 --> 00:34:29.349
is called off. Suddenly you can get gunpowder quite cheap.
534
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:33.719
By the autumn of 1605, a total of 36 barrels,
535
00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:35.559
around two and a half tons, were hidden in the
536
00:34:35.619 --> 00:34:39.400
cellar and covered with iron bars, stones, firewood and coal
537
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:43.079
to disguise them, and it's thought to add destructive force.
538
00:34:44.059 --> 00:34:49.300
The delay from summer to autumn is crucial. Parliament is
539
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:53.110
scheduled to open on the 7th of February 1605, but
540
00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:57.030
it kept being postponed from February to July, then July
541
00:34:57.250 --> 00:35:01.260
to October 1605. largely because of an outbreak of plague
542
00:35:01.389 --> 00:35:05.610
in London. And finally, it was set to the 5th
543
00:35:05.630 --> 00:35:10.449
of November 1605. And this gave the conspirators time to prepare,
544
00:35:11.570 --> 00:35:14.050
but it did also give their secret more time to leak.
545
00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:17.340
Now for the second half of the plan. Catesby was
546
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:20.059
not just a bomber, he was planning a coup. The
547
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.400
idea was
that on the day of the explosion, a
548
00:35:22.460 --> 00:35:26.059
rebellion would rise in the Midlands, centred on the area
549
00:35:26.139 --> 00:35:29.789
around Dunchurch in Warwickshire, A hunting party would be gathered
550
00:35:30.289 --> 00:35:32.610
under the cover of a day's sport led by Sir
551
00:35:32.690 --> 00:35:37.289
Everett Digby. Meanwhile, a group would seize the king's nine-year-old daughter,
552
00:35:37.369 --> 00:35:41.610
Princess Elizabeth, who was being kept at Coombe Abbey near Coventry.
553
00:35:42.210 --> 00:35:46.889
She would be proclaimed queen with a Catholic regent and
554
00:35:46.909 --> 00:35:51.329
the aim was to install a Catholic-friendly government. As for
555
00:35:51.349 --> 00:35:53.309
the king's sons, Prince Henry the heir would be in
556
00:35:53.369 --> 00:35:56.289
Parliament that day and killed in the blast. The younger son, Charles,
557
00:35:56.530 --> 00:35:59.190
who would then become Charles I actually, was then fought,
558
00:35:59.469 --> 00:36:03.510
who would need to be seized and dealt with. The plan, frankly,
559
00:36:03.550 --> 00:36:06.199
was dark and sketchy at this point and historians argue
560
00:36:06.219 --> 00:36:09.139
about how realistic any of it was. So basically the
561
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:13.599
idea was dispose of... James I had three children. He
562
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.460
would be in Parliament with his eldest son, Henry. They
563
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:21.400
would both be blown up. Then the next in line
564
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:27.179
is Elizabeth, and she's nine, young enough to need a regent,
565
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:32.480
but also young enough... Also, I think the fact that
566
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:34.860
she's a woman, even though we've had Mary and we've
567
00:36:34.900 --> 00:36:40.179
had Elizabeth, people would be more up for a woman
568
00:36:40.219 --> 00:36:43.880
having a regent. I mean, a nine-year-old, you're going to
569
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.750
have one anyway, I think, but... she would definitely have
570
00:36:47.809 --> 00:36:51.780
been more malleable. There's another problem that the plotters couldn't ignore.
571
00:36:51.860 --> 00:36:54.039
Parliament on the day would not only contain the King,
572
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.219
the Lords and the Commons, it would also contain a
573
00:36:56.260 --> 00:36:59.860
number of Catholic peers, men sympathetic to the cause, or
574
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:04.070
at least who were their friends and family. And what
575
00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:06.489
were they going to do about them? Now, one famous
576
00:37:06.510 --> 00:37:09.570
account has Thomas Percy asking Catesby about this and Catesby
577
00:37:09.650 --> 00:37:12.630
replying coldly that they must perish since the good of
578
00:37:12.670 --> 00:37:18.030
the cause outweighed the loss of a few. It shows
579
00:37:18.070 --> 00:37:19.989
the logic of the men inside the plot. It's also
580
00:37:20.329 --> 00:37:24.070
classic terrorism chat, isn't it? And also, I haven't been
581
00:37:24.090 --> 00:37:27.570
able to work out, if Fawkes was going to light
582
00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:30.530
the fuse and then, I guess, hop on a horse
583
00:37:31.809 --> 00:37:34.880
and go as fast as possible, how far is he
584
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.139
going to get before it goes? But anyway, this is
585
00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:42.400
a concern for some, not a concern for others, but
586
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.360
it's precisely this worry that could have broken this conspiracy
587
00:37:45.389 --> 00:37:47.780
completely open parliament is due to open on the 5th
588
00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:52.800
of november it's about the 26th of november 605 when
589
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:57.119
william parker lord monteagle a catholic peer and a man
590
00:37:57.139 --> 00:37:59.300
with family links to some of the plotters is at
591
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.900
dinner at his house in hoxton on the outskirts of
592
00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.179
london he has been out of the city for some
593
00:38:04.300 --> 00:38:07.139
time and has just returned as he sits down the
594
00:38:07.179 --> 00:38:09.730
servant brings him a letter A stranger, he says, has
595
00:38:09.769 --> 00:38:12.110
handed it to him in the street and told him
596
00:38:12.550 --> 00:38:15.489
to give it to his lord. Monteagle opens it and
597
00:38:15.510 --> 00:38:23.349
it's read aloud. It's unsigned and it's a warning. So,
598
00:38:23.670 --> 00:38:25.010
I'm not going to read it to you word for word.
599
00:38:25.090 --> 00:38:26.780
It's a long document in the English at the time,
600
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:28.320
but I can tell you what it says. The writer
601
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.460
says he has a care for Monteagle's safety. Out of
602
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:35.440
affection for him, he urges him to find some excuse
603
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:38.199
to stay away from the opening of Parliament. God and man,
604
00:38:38.260 --> 00:38:40.960
he says, have decided to punish the wickedness of the times.
605
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.659
A terrible blow will fall upon Parliament and those present
606
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:48.679
will not see who has struck it. The danger, it says,
607
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:51.670
will be over as quickly as it takes to burn
608
00:38:51.710 --> 00:38:55.110
the letter. And he adds that he hopes Monteagle will
609
00:38:55.150 --> 00:38:57.670
make good use of it. I think it's quite important
610
00:38:57.710 --> 00:39:03.280
also to flag that When you think about it, you think, well,
611
00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:06.969
it's very much Catholics versus Protestants, and all Catholics must
612
00:39:06.989 --> 00:39:09.210
be anti the Protestant king. I don't think that's the
613
00:39:09.250 --> 00:39:11.670
case at all. I think you can be sort of
614
00:39:11.789 --> 00:39:20.170
pro-James I, but not Protestant. And so, Monteagle's alarmed. He
615
00:39:20.210
--> 00:39:22.929
leaves dinner. He takes the letter straight to Whitehall, to
616
00:39:22.949 --> 00:39:27.809
the Chief Minister, Robert Cecil, the Earl of Salisbury. And
617
00:39:27.849 --> 00:39:33.699
that's what I mean. He's got... no... He may be Catholic,
618
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.980
but that's not his first loyalty. Who wrote this letter?
619
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.929
This is one of the great unsolved questions of the story.
620
00:39:40.269 --> 00:39:45.690
The prime suspect is Francis Tresham, Monteagle's brother-in-law, who'd been
621
00:39:45.730 --> 00:39:47.909
admitted to the plot very late, and is said to
622
00:39:47.949 --> 00:39:50.929
be deeply anxious about the fate of relatives amongst the peers.
623
00:39:51.369 --> 00:39:53.889
Tresham always denied it, even in the last weeks of
624
00:39:53.929 --> 00:39:58.110
his life, though he died in the tower in December
625
00:39:58.110 --> 00:40:00.460
1605 before he could stand trial, but he was adamant
626
00:40:00.619 --> 00:40:02.420
to the end that he did not send the letter.
627
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:06.699
Other candidates include Thomas Ward, a servant of Monteagle's, and
628
00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:10.380
Anne Vaux, a devout Catholic woman who sheltered Jesuit priests.
629
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:13.869
Some suggest Monteagle himself wrote it, or that it was
630
00:40:13.909 --> 00:40:17.130
a piece of theatre arranged by Cecil, the government's master
631
00:40:17.170 --> 00:40:20.969
of spies, to exaggerate a threat. The last theory that
632
00:40:20.989 --> 00:40:23.760
the whole plot was a government invention or provocation has
633
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:26.960
been put forward many times, and historians have by and
634
00:40:27.019 --> 00:40:32.280
large rejected it. But the question about the letter still remains. Cecil,
635
00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:35.159
once he has the letter, is cautious and he's clever.
636
00:40:35.530 --> 00:40:38.610
He doesn't act at once. He shows it to a
637
00:40:38.670 --> 00:40:42.110
few trusted colleagues, including the Lord Chamberlain, the Earl of Suffolk,
638
00:40:44.449 --> 00:40:46.789
And they agree to wait and see what can be learned.
639
00:40:48.190 --> 00:40:52.230
The king's away hunting and returned to London on the
640
00:40:52.809 --> 00:40:57.210
31st of October. Cecil showed him the letter. Also remember,
641
00:40:57.230 --> 00:40:59.710
this is a time where nothing can happen quickly. The
642
00:40:59.750 --> 00:41:02.230
king is away hunting. That is going to take days
643
00:41:02.289 --> 00:41:04.690
and days and days to get, you know, before the
644
00:41:04.710 --> 00:41:07.849
king arrives anywhere, places have to be set up ready
645
00:41:07.889 --> 00:41:11.369
to receive him. They travel very heavy, very slowly, bad roads.
646
00:41:11.650 --> 00:41:14.610
Just remember that. So he gets back. Cecil shows him
647
00:41:14.630 --> 00:41:18.489
the letter. And here, according to the official story, James I,
648
00:41:18.670 --> 00:41:21.949
who prided himself on his intellect, studied the letter and
649
00:41:21.989 --> 00:41:26.010
drew his own conclusion. The warning of a terrible blow
650
00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:30.309
that would come without seeing who hurt them suggested to
651
00:41:30.409 --> 00:41:35.179
him not a rebellion, but an explosion. Gunpowder, in fact.
652
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:39.199
The idea in the official version came from the king's wisdom.
653
00:41:41.789 --> 00:41:45.289
Historians are understandably cautious about this. It's very convenient for
654
00:41:45.309 --> 00:41:48.329
the royal image and it may have been polished later.
655
00:41:48.630 --> 00:41:51.630
But what's clear is that a search was decided upon
656
00:41:51.650 --> 00:41:53.369
and that it was done in a way that wouldn't
657
00:41:53.409 --> 00:41:57.889
tip off the plotters. So they clearly thought, let's check
658
00:41:59.210 --> 00:42:05.349
the Houses of Parliament. Let's have a look through. Meanwhile...
659
00:42:05.989 --> 00:42:09.550
In the conspirators' camp, the letter causes panic. Catesby hears
660
00:42:09.590 --> 00:42:11.949
about it, and Thomas Wintour is sent to confirm that
661
00:42:12.010 --> 00:42:15.820
Monteagle has gone to the authorities. The consensus is that
662
00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:19.920
the plot is blown. Catesby is almost alone in believing
663
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.519
it can continue. His reasoning? The letter speaks vaguely of
664
00:42:24.579 --> 00:42:28.019
a blow. There's no names. There's no details. If the
665
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:32.780
authorities knew about the cellar, why hadn't they struck? Cecil's
666
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:36.139
Patience Seems to Catesby to be a good sign. He
667
00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:38.800
doesn't see it in his patients. He thinks, well, they'd
668
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:43.389
be looking already. Catesby sends Fawkes to check the cellar.
669
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.170
Fawkes returns. The powder is undisturbed. The conspirators decide to
670
00:42:48.210 --> 00:42:53.329
carry on. It's a catastrophic misjudgment. The authorities hadn't acted,
671
00:42:53.510 --> 00:42:56.389
not because they didn't know, but because they were waiting
672
00:42:56.429 --> 00:43:00.170
to see. On the afternoon of the 4th of November,
673
00:43:00.550 --> 00:43:03.849
the search begins. The Lord Chamberlain, the Earl of Suffolk,
674
00:43:04.030 --> 00:43:07.769
makes a tour of the Parliament buildings, supposedly checking arrangements
675
00:43:07.809 --> 00:43:10.550
for the King. In the cellar, he finds a tall
676
00:43:10.590 --> 00:43:13.429
man standing among piles of firewood who says he's a
677
00:43:13.489 --> 00:43:18.699
servant of Thomas Percy, who rents that room. Suffolk notes
678
00:43:18.739 --> 00:43:21.059
the large quantity of fuel for a man who seems
679
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.639
to have so little use for it and reports his
680
00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:27.510
suspicions to the King. The King, according to tradition, insists
681
00:43:27.650 --> 00:43:31.000
on a more thorough search. And so shortly before midnight,
682
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.280
a magistrate named Sir Thomas Nivet, with a party of
683
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.940
armed men, goes into the cellar. There they find a
684
00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:44.389
man who identifies himself as John Johnson, a servant for
685
00:43:44.429 --> 00:43:47.610
Thomas Percy. The fact that Percy's name has been mentioned
686
00:43:47.670 --> 00:43:52.570
and he's a known Catholic agitator raises suspicion. The man
687
00:43:52.690 --> 00:43:55.469
is dressed for travelling in boots and spurs with a
688
00:43:55.550 --> 00:43:59.489
cloak on. and they search under the firewood, they find
689
00:43:59.789 --> 00:44:03.840
barrels of gunpowder. When they search Johnson, they find a watch,
690
00:44:04.340 --> 00:44:07.260
some touchwood, and a slow match that means to light
691
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.980
a fuse. He's seized, tied up, and taken in the
692
00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:13.980
early hours of the 5th to the King, and it
693
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:16.980
turns out it would seem that the prolonged wait for
694
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:20.809
Parliament to meet meant that the gunpowder had actually expired.
695
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.380
The scene that follows is one of the most famous
696
00:44:23.500 --> 00:44:26.239
in English history. Fawkes is brought before James in his
697
00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:29.780
bedchamber at Whitehall and is completely calm. Can I just
698
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.260
say that maybe the reason I find it hard to
699
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.269
get out of bed in the morning is that, secretly,
700
00:44:36.489 --> 00:44:41.510
I should be royalty. Maybe I'm James I reincarnated. Fawkes
701
00:44:41.550 --> 00:44:45.789
makes no attempt to deny what he's done. He's still
702
00:44:46.050 --> 00:44:49.530
John Johnson at this stage. He's asked why he planned
703
00:44:49.550 --> 00:44:53.550
to blow up the king. He replies... so the story
704
00:44:53.590 --> 00:44:56.929
goes that a dangerous disease requires a dangerous remedy and
705
00:44:56.949 --> 00:45:02.269
when a Scottish soldier torturing him asks why he needed
706
00:45:02.349 --> 00:45:05.110
so much powder, he replies that he meant to blow
707
00:45:05.150 --> 00:45:10.250
the Scots back to Scotland. King is said to have
708
00:45:10.269 --> 00:45:13.449
been very struck by the man's composure and some sources
709
00:45:13.510 --> 00:45:17.219
suggest that James marvelled at his courage but he wants
710
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:20.070
names and forks won't give them to him. At this stage,
711
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:24.590
Fawkes is only John Johnson. For two days, he holds out,
712
00:45:24.829 --> 00:45:28.570
giving only his false name. Even then, he confesses nothing
713
00:45:28.670 --> 00:45:32.929
about the others. But in the early hours of the 5th,
714
00:45:33.179 --> 00:45:37.159
the news is spreading. In London, bonfires are lit to
715
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:40.860
celebrate the king's deliverance. And it's the origin of the
716
00:45:40.900 --> 00:45:43.980
tradition that still lasts today. In case you were wondering
717
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:48.000
why we light bonfires to celebrate a failed plot... It
718
00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:49.820
is not as I always thought when I was younger
719
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:52.690
because we were going to blow up Parliament and therefore
720
00:45:52.949 --> 00:45:56.550
a bonfire is similar to blowing things up. Makes sense
721
00:45:56.989 --> 00:46:01.329
in my young brain. It is because we lit bonfires
722
00:46:01.530 --> 00:46:07.550
to celebrate the King's deliverance and so we do it still. Meanwhile,
723
00:46:07.929 --> 00:46:10.489
the rest of the conspirators are on the run. As
724
00:46:10.550 --> 00:46:13.280
soon as Fawkes was caught and word reached them, they
725
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:18.239
scattered out of London, riding hard to the Midlands. Catesby, Rookwood,
726
00:46:18.489 --> 00:46:21.800
Thomas Winter and others met at Ashby, St. Ledger's and
727
00:46:21.820 --> 00:46:24.420
then in the early hours of the 6th tried to
728
00:46:24.500 --> 00:46:31.659
rally support at Dunn Church. Now, news doesn't travel as
729
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.539
fast as nowadays. So there's no... They are aware that
730
00:46:36.659 --> 00:46:41.300
even though the plot failed, the first part of the plot,
731
00:46:41.739 --> 00:46:47.730
they can still rummage up a rebellion because... the news
732
00:46:47.769 --> 00:46:52.650
won't have reached everywhere about a failed plot being uncovered
733
00:46:52.690 --> 00:46:58.619
and someone being caught. The response, however, is disastrous. Most
734
00:46:58.659 --> 00:47:01.400
of the Catholic gentry wanted nothing to do with them.
735
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:04.840
Several of the hunting party who'd gathered, who hadn't been
736
00:47:04.889 --> 00:47:09.070
told the real plan, fled in horror. The group, now
737
00:47:09.130 --> 00:47:12.929
numbering about 80 or so, tried to raid Warwick Castle
738
00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:16.469
for horses and weapons. then headed west towards Wales in
739
00:47:16.550 --> 00:47:20.510
hope of finding support. They found none. They ended up
740
00:47:20.630 --> 00:47:24.280
at Holbeck House in Staffordshire, the home of Stephen Littleton,
741
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:28.440
one of their number. Exhausted, drenched and almost without hope,
742
00:47:28.820 --> 00:47:31.579
they tried to dry their gunpowder before the fire. A
743
00:47:33.500 --> 00:47:36.900
spark landed on it. The powder exploded, badly burning several
744
00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:40.039
of the men, including Catesby, John Grant, who was blinded,
745
00:47:40.219 --> 00:47:43.329
and Ambrose Rookwood. It's just going from bad to worse.
746
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:48.380
On the morning of the 8th of
November, the Sheriff
747
00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:54.760
of Worcestershire... Just a little side quest for any Americans
748
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:59.510
who ever wonder how you say that. Worcestershire arrives at
749
00:47:59.750 --> 00:48:03.429
Holbeck House with a force of some 200 men. A
750
00:48:03.510 --> 00:48:07.409
gunfight begins. Catesby and Percy stood back-to-back in the doorway,
751
00:48:07.510 --> 00:48:10.570
so the account goes, and both were struck apparently by
752
00:48:10.610 --> 00:48:16.050
the same musket ball. Thomas Winter was wounded... John Wright
753
00:48:16.110 --> 00:48:19.230
and Christopher Wright were killed. Catesby, according to some accounts,
754
00:48:19.510 --> 00:48:22.250
crawled back into the house and died clutching an image
755
00:48:22.289 --> 00:48:25.750
of the Virgin Mary. Thomas Percy died the following day.
756
00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:29.340
The government was said to be displeased. The dead tell
757
00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:34.219
no tales and they wanted both leaders alive to be questioned.
758
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:37.659
The heads of Catesby and Percy would later be cut
759
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:42.159
off and displayed on spikes outside Parliament. It's lovely, isn't it?
760
00:48:43.340 --> 00:48:46.949
Think about that next time you noodling around the houses
761
00:48:46.989 --> 00:48:52.590
of parliament really missing some horrible spikes now to the
762
00:48:52.730 --> 00:48:55.730
aftermath which in many ways is the darker half of
763
00:48:55.769 --> 00:49:00.360
this story forks was moved on the 6th of november
764
00:49:00.449 --> 00:49:02.900
to the tower of london the king in what has
765
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:06.880
become a famous document authorized the use of torture with
766
00:49:06.940 --> 00:49:10.699
careful wording he wrote that the gentler tortures were to
767
00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:14.920
be tried first and then so on, by degrees to
768
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:17.349
the worst. Now, torture at the time was not legal
769
00:49:17.510 --> 00:49:20.449
under the English common law, but it could be. authorized
770
00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:25.280
by royal warrant in cases of national security the method
771
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:30.679
used on forks and most common at the time is
772
00:49:30.739 --> 00:49:33.960
thought to have been the use of manacles and then
773
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:38.099
the rack manacles are iron handcuffs worn around the wrists
774
00:49:38.539 --> 00:49:41.329
in the tower and A prisoner would be suspended by
775
00:49:41.389 --> 00:49:44.750
manacles with their feet off the floor for long periods
776
00:49:44.789 --> 00:49:49.429
of time, causing great pain and discomfort. Afterwards, the victim
777
00:49:49.449 --> 00:49:52.130
would find it very painful and difficult to use his hands.
778
00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:55.739
If no confession was forthcoming, the prisoner was shown the
779
00:49:55.780 --> 00:49:59.500
rack first and then questioned. Only if the prisoner refused
780
00:49:59.539 --> 00:50:02.679
to answer was the rack used. It's known that the
781
00:50:02.739 --> 00:50:04.860
sheer sight of the rack was often enough for people
782
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.280
to start talking. There is that meme that goes around
783
00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:10.659
that says it's awful but... probably for the first minute
784
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:14.969
on the rack, it felt amazing. Just a bit of stretching,
785
00:50:14.989 --> 00:50:17.889
a bit of recentering of the body. I literally just
786
00:50:17.929 --> 00:50:20.190
sat up and my back crunched at the thought of it.
787
00:50:20.389 --> 00:50:24.440
The change in Forks' signature tells a story. A first
788
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:27.099
confession signed on the 7th of November is in a firm,
789
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.670
clear hand. The next signed on the 8th. is a faint,
790
00:50:30.949 --> 00:50:34.340
trembling scrawl, just Guido for the name he'd used whilst
791
00:50:34.389 --> 00:50:37.760
fighting in Spain. It's one of the most haunting documents
792
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:40.300
to survive from the whole affair and it's held in
793
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:42.380
the National Archives. And I will put a picture up
794
00:50:43.619 --> 00:50:48.820
on social media. Over the next days, Fawkes gave up
795
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:52.940
his real name, the names of his co-conspirators, then the
796
00:50:52.980 --> 00:50:56.380
story of the whole plot. Much of what he said
797
00:50:56.460 --> 00:50:59.860
was already known because other plotters had been arrested. and
798
00:50:59.900 --> 00:51:02.900
had already talked. By the end of November, the rest
799
00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:06.059
of the surviving plotters had been captured. Digby was taken,
800
00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:09.860
having tried to flee. Rookwood, Keyes, Grant, Bates, and Robert
801
00:51:09.929 --> 00:51:14.769
Winter were arrested. Thomas Winter was captured at Holbeck. Francis Tresham,
802
00:51:14.889 --> 00:51:17.550
who'd been arrested in the first days, died in the
803
00:51:17.610 --> 00:51:23.309
Tower on the 23rd of December, officially of a urinary illness. Also,
804
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:27.539
whether that's true or not, imagine being in the Tower
805
00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:31.449
of London with a urinary infection nothing makes me feel
806
00:51:31.550 --> 00:51:36.949
iller nothing makes me feel iller just horrendous what a
807
00:51:37.090 --> 00:51:39.840
what a way to go the eight surviving men were
808
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:43.579
put on trial together on the 27th of january 1606
809
00:51:43.579 --> 00:51:47.039
at westminster hall they were charged with high treason the
810
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:50.800
prosecution was led by attorney general sir edward coke one
811
00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:54.579
of the most formidable lawyers in english history and there's
812
00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:57.909
no real defense Digby pleaded guilty and
the others in
813
00:51:58.030 --> 00:52:02.289
one form or another did so too. They'd been seized,
814
00:52:02.650 --> 00:52:06.610
there was evidence against them. Coke gave a long, ranting
815
00:52:06.650 --> 00:52:09.570
speech calling the plot a treason that was beyond example.
816
00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:13.329
The jury took little time to deliver the expected verdicts.
817
00:52:13.969 --> 00:52:17.019
The sentence for high treason was the cruelest the English
818
00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:20.719
law could devise. The condemned men would be dragged on
819
00:52:20.739 --> 00:52:24.260
a hurdle to their place of execution. That's the drawing bit.
820
00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:29.010
hanged until nearly dead, then cut down, disemboweled and castrated
821
00:52:29.050 --> 00:52:32.289
while still alive, beheaded and their bodies cut into quarters.
822
00:52:34.010 --> 00:52:38.010
On the 30th and 31st of January 1686, the executions
823
00:52:38.030 --> 00:52:41.480
took place. The first four, Digby, Robert Winter, John Grant
824
00:52:41.539 --> 00:52:44.559
and Thomas Bates, were executed at the western end of
825
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:49.079
St Paul's Churchyard. The final four, Thomas Winter, Ambrose Brookwood,
826
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:52.179
Robert Keyes and Guy Fawkes, died the next day at
827
00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:55.829
Old Palace Yard in Westminster, within sight of the building
828
00:52:55.869 --> 00:52:59.650
they'd planned to destroy. And here is one of the
829
00:52:59.690 --> 00:53:02.909
most remarkable details of all. Fawkes, who was the last
830
00:53:02.929 --> 00:53:05.769
to be executed, was so weak from torture that he
831
00:53:05.809 --> 00:53:08.780
needed help to climb the scaffold, and some accounts say
832
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:10.860
that as he was about to be hanged, he leapt
833
00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:13.800
from the ladder, or that the rope broke, or that
834
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:17.179
he simply fell and broke his neck, and thus escaped
835
00:53:17.380 --> 00:53:20.659
the worst of his sentence. Whatever the cause, he was
836
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.260
dead when the knife came. Some accounts say that his
837
00:53:23.300 --> 00:53:25.610
body was still quartered anyway and the parts sent to
838
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:29.190
be displayed across the kingdom as a warning. When James
839
00:53:29.429 --> 00:53:33.650
I finally opened Parliament, he gave a speech ensuring that
840
00:53:33.690 --> 00:53:36.829
it wasn't laid at the door of all Catholics. It
841
00:53:36.869 --> 00:53:40.250
wasn't a foreign power. There was nothing to panic or
842
00:53:40.309 --> 00:53:43.590
rebel against. It was a group of radicals. It's actually
843
00:53:43.639 --> 00:53:49.889
incredibly diplomatic. If not handled properly it could have led
844
00:53:49.949 --> 00:53:54.789
to a bloody and brutal repression of Catholics and you
845
00:53:54.829 --> 00:53:57.369
know people getting razzed up and in fact he was
846
00:53:57.409 --> 00:54:01.809
like it's a group of radicals they've been tried they've
847
00:54:01.829 --> 00:54:06.769
been executed job's done the plot had failed but its
848
00:54:06.829 --> 00:54:11.210
consequences ran on for centuries first the Jesuits the government
849
00:54:11.269 --> 00:54:14.570
was convinced that the plot had a hidden hand and
850
00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:17.880
Cecil hoped to prove that the Catholic church leaders had
851
00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:20.719
known of it. Henry Garnet, the superior of the Jesuits
852
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:24.000
in England, was hunted down. In January 1606, he was
853
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:27.860
found at Hindlip Hall in Worcestershire, hiding in a priest hole,
854
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.650
one of the best built by Nicholas Owen, and after
855
00:54:31.690 --> 00:54:35.250
being starved out, was taken after a week. Garnet had
856
00:54:35.309 --> 00:54:38.210
known about the plot. He'd learnt of it through Tesmond
857
00:54:38.849 --> 00:54:41.780
in Confession, and he had tried to stop it. At
858
00:54:41.860 --> 00:54:45.079
his trial in March 1606, he was questioned about the
859
00:54:45.139 --> 00:54:49.429
doctrine of equivocation. the idea that a person can, in
860
00:54:49.489 --> 00:54:55.300
certain circumstances, use ambiguous language to mislead without technically lying.
861
00:54:55.800 --> 00:54:59.400
The prosecution, led by Coke, painted this as proof that
862
00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:03.219
Catholic priests were liars who couldn't be trusted. Garnet was
863
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:09.239
convicted and executed at St Paul's Churchyard on 3 May 1606.
864
00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:11.610
A curious story is attached to his death. A drop
865
00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:16.909
of blood-stained straw from the execution, it's said, showed an
866
00:55:17.050 --> 00:55:20.210
image of Garnet's face and it became a relic for
867
00:55:20.250 --> 00:55:24.840
Catholics and a scandal for the government. The wider Catholic
868
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:28.639
community suffered too. Parliament, once it met, passed a series
869
00:55:28.699 --> 00:55:33.449
of new laws in 1606. The Popish Recursants Act strengthened
870
00:55:33.510 --> 00:55:38.050
penalties for those who refused to attend Anglican services. Catholics
871
00:55:38.070 --> 00:55:42.289
were barred from certain professions, including the law and medicine,
872
00:55:42.789 --> 00:55:45.050
and were banned from the army and the navy. And
873
00:55:45.150 --> 00:55:48.929
most significant of all, a new oath of allegiance was imposed,
874
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:52.820
requiring Catholics to swear that the Pope had no power
875
00:55:52.860 --> 00:55:57.119
to depose the king. Many devout Catholics couldn't in conscience
876
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.099
swear it. Catholics would not be fully admitted to public
877
00:56:00.139 --> 00:56:02.980
life in England until the Catholic Relief Act of 1829,
878
00:56:02.960 --> 00:56:10.590
more than two centuries later. One more legacy. Parliament passed
879
00:56:10.829 --> 00:56:14.360
an Act of Thanksgiving, the observance of 5th of November
880
00:56:14.449 --> 00:56:18.800
Act requiring annual church services to commemorate the King's deliverance.
881
00:56:19.139 --> 00:56:22.099
The Act stayed on the statute book until 1859. In
882
00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:26.340
the meantime, the day had acquired a life of its own. Bonfires,
883
00:56:26.599 --> 00:56:29.860
fireworks and effigies at the Pope and later Guy Fawkes himself.
884
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.139
Children asked for a penny for the guy and rhymed
885
00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:36.800
about gunpowder, treason and plot. It remains a night of
886
00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:39.539
fireworks in Britain and a night which most people celebrate
887
00:56:39.579 --> 00:56:43.320
with little thought for what it began as. And the cellar?
888
00:56:44.139 --> 00:56:47.500
To this day, before every state opening of Parliament, the
889
00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:50.489
yeomen of the guard conduct a ceremonial search of the
890
00:56:50.570 --> 00:56:54.230
cellars beneath the Palace of Westminster. It's theatre, but it's
891
00:56:54.289 --> 00:56:56.989
a theatre that has endured for 400 years and one
892
00:56:57.010 --> 00:56:59.369
of the hidden best bits about Britain that is so
893
00:56:59.530 --> 00:57:02.909
often eclipsed by everything else shit at the moment. We
894
00:57:02.949 --> 00:57:09.079
need more whimsy, people. Stop taking everything so seriously. But
895
00:57:09.139 --> 00:57:11.900
how did treason become a night for fire? The first
896
00:57:11.960 --> 00:57:14.860
bonfires were lit by ordinary Londoners on the very night
897
00:57:14.900 --> 00:57:17.679
the plot was uncovered, the 5th of November 1605, as
898
00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:24.219
a spontaneous show of relief. It was the clapping on
899
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:29.010
the doorsteps of 1605. A few months later, the observance
900
00:57:29.190 --> 00:57:31.590
of the 5th of November Act turned that relief into
901
00:57:31.610 --> 00:57:34.250
a duty act. bells, prayers and sermons every year in
902
00:57:34.309 --> 00:57:36.329
every parish, and for a long time it was a solemn,
903
00:57:36.530 --> 00:57:41.380
loyal and thoroughly Protestant occasion. It did not stay solemn.
904
00:57:42.099 --> 00:57:45.880
By the later 17th century, the day came with processions
905
00:57:46.059 --> 00:57:49.960
and burning of effigies at the Pope. In 1688, William
906
00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:53.389
of Orange landed at Brixham on 5th November, which tied
907
00:57:53.429 --> 00:57:56.889
the date even more tightly to the Protestant cause. And,
908
00:57:56.969 --> 00:57:59.010
I would say, if you're going to land anywhere in
909
00:57:59.050 --> 00:58:02.429
England on 5th November... Brixham is a pretty good place.
910
00:58:02.789 --> 00:58:05.110
Gives you a soft landing into an English winter by
911
00:58:05.150 --> 00:58:10.440
being very pretty. Picturesque. Fireworks arrived as they became cheaper
912
00:58:10.500 --> 00:58:13.099
and in the 19th century the guy himself, a stuffed
913
00:58:13.219 --> 00:58:16.440
figure children dragged around asking for a penny for, took
914
00:58:16.820 --> 00:58:19.440
over from the Pope as the thing most often put
915
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:23.480
on the fire. The act was repealed in 1859 by
916
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:26.550
which point the knight belonged to the people rather than
917
00:58:26.590 --> 00:58:32.179
the church. Nowhere keeps the older, harder-edged version of the
918
00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:36.349
knight better than Lewis in East Sussex. In the 1550s,
919
00:58:36.449 --> 00:58:39.750
under Mary I, 17 Protestants were burnt at the stake
920
00:58:39.789 --> 00:58:43.090
in the town, and that memory is woven into every November.
921
00:58:43.550 --> 00:58:47.929
Processions carry burning crosses for the martyrs. Through the 19th century,
922
00:58:47.969 --> 00:58:51.949
the knight was famously rowdy, with flaming tar barrels, running
923
00:58:51.989 --> 00:58:55.929
battles with the authorities, and the town's bonfire societies emerged
924
00:58:56.130 --> 00:58:59.559
largely to bring some order to it. Today, each society
925
00:58:59.619 --> 00:59:03.099
has its own costume, banners and route, and thousands of
926
00:59:03.159 --> 00:59:07.150
people in torch-lit procession walk the narrow streets before bonfires,
927
00:59:07.349 --> 00:59:10.679
fireworks and the burning of effigies. guy forks is there
928
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:14.420
and so are caricatures of whichever politicians and public figures
929
00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:17.949
the town has decided to deserve it that year the
930
00:59:18.030 --> 00:59:22.190
anti-catholic imagery has drawn criticism and the society say the
931
00:59:22.250 --> 00:59:26.489
night is about civil and religious liberty the argument is
932
00:59:26.530 --> 00:59:29.590
now part of the tradition too Then there is Ottery
933
00:59:29.630 --> 00:59:32.780
St Mary in Devon, where the night is not about
934
00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:35.280
effigies at all, but about fire you can feel on
935
00:59:35.300 --> 00:59:38.699
your skin. Barrels soaked in tar assess the light, hoisted
936
00:59:38.780 --> 00:59:41.059
onto the soldiers of local men and women, and carried
937
00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:44.929
at a run through streets packed with spectators who scatter
938
00:59:44.989 --> 00:59:48.250
as the barrel approaches. Younger carriers take smaller barrels in
939
00:59:48.269 --> 00:59:51.110
the afternoon, and the evening builds towards the biggest barrels
940
00:59:51.150 --> 00:59:55.619
of all around midnight. Nobody knows how old the custom
941
00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:57.630
really is. Many in the town believe it's older than
942
00:59:57.670 --> 01:00:01.829
the gunpowder plot, a folk ritual of purifying fire that
943
01:00:01.869 --> 01:00:05.409
had been absorbed
into the 5th of November. Much of
944
01:00:05.429 --> 01:00:09.320
the plot itself absorbed older autumn fire festivals across Britain.
945
01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:12.480
Whatever the truth, it's a reminder that a night we
946
01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:16.239
think of as being about one conspiracy is carrying a
947
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:20.269
lot more history than that. Now to the strangest afterlife
948
01:00:20.309 --> 01:00:24.059
of all. 400 years on, a face most associated with
949
01:00:24.099 --> 01:00:27.139
Guy Fawkes is not his own. No portrait of him
950
01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:29.679
survives that we can be sure of. The face is
951
01:00:29.739 --> 01:00:34.900
a mask, a smiling, moustached, rosy-cheeked grin. It was designed
952
01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:38.639
by the artist David Lloyd for the comic V for Vendetta,
953
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:42.460
written by Alan Moore, which began appearing in a British
954
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:46.639
magazine in 1982 and was later collected by DC Comics.
955
01:00:47.239 --> 01:00:52.519
The story is set in a future fascist Britain, How
956
01:00:52.619 --> 01:00:56.000
much into the future? And its hero, V, is a
957
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.909
masked anarchist who wants to bring the government down. Lloyd
958
01:00:59.929 --> 01:01:02.889
suggested dressing V as Guy Fawkes since the story was
959
01:01:02.909 --> 01:01:04.889
set around the 5th of November and the idea of
960
01:01:04.949 --> 01:01:07.050
a man remembered for trying to blow up Parliament seemed
961
01:01:07.090 --> 01:01:10.949
a perfect fit. Moore liked it at once. The 2006
962
01:01:10.949 --> 01:01:14.139
film took the mask to a global audience. Then something
963
01:01:14.179 --> 01:01:18.699
unusual happened. Around 2008, members of an online collective, Anonymous,
964
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:21.739
began wearing it at protests against the Church of Scientology.
965
01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:25.099
The mask appeared again at Occupy protests in 2011 and
966
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:30.949
has been worn on demonstrations in many countries since, including
967
01:01:30.989 --> 01:01:34.510
the annual Milton Mask March in London each 5th of November.
968
01:01:34.969 --> 01:01:37.630
Alan Moore, who's never had much good to say about
969
01:01:37.650 --> 01:01:40.230
the film adaptation's has said he's pleased to see it
970
01:01:40.349 --> 01:01:44.090
adopted by protesters. There's an irony here that the real
971
01:01:44.150 --> 01:01:47.989
Guy Fawkes was not an anarchist or a democrat or
972
01:01:48.130 --> 01:01:51.869
any enemy of authority. He was a devout Catholic soldier
973
01:01:52.150 --> 01:01:55.610
who wanted to replace one religious order with another by violence.
974
01:01:56.869 --> 01:02:00.110
The mask has little to do with the man. What
975
01:02:00.170 --> 01:02:03.969
it carries now is something else, anonymity, defiance, and the
976
01:02:04.170 --> 01:02:07.369
idea of ordinary people standing up to power in
a
977
01:02:07.389 --> 01:02:10.380
way It is the final transformation of the story, a
978
01:02:10.420 --> 01:02:14.219
plot that failed, a conspirator who is not even its leader,
979
01:02:14.380 --> 01:02:16.920
and a face he never wore, now standing for ideas
980
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:21.260
he would hardly have recognised. The interesting thing about the
981
01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:24.760
gunpowder plot is, apart from the potential mass murder, it's
982
01:02:24.820 --> 01:02:27.579
never clear who are the goodies and who are the baddies.
983
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:31.360
Both sides have a point and both behave badly. As
984
01:02:31.429 --> 01:02:33.969
Tom Holland says on The Rest Is History, quote, there's
985
01:02:34.010 --> 01:02:38.070
skullduggery and oppression on both sides. What the gunpowder plot
986
01:02:38.150 --> 01:02:42.070
really teaches is how persecution and desperation can lead decent,
987
01:02:42.190 --> 01:02:44.670
devout men to a place where they would never otherwise
988
01:02:44.710 --> 01:02:47.969
have gone. It's about how fear in return can shape
989
01:02:48.110 --> 01:02:54.070
a nation's laws and its memory for generations. Also, I
990
01:02:54.110 --> 01:02:57.900
don't think it would have blown up. Well, how much
991
01:02:57.980 --> 01:03:02.059
blowing up would there have been? Because that gunpowder was old.
992
01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:06.139
So there's a thought that it really wouldn't have blown
993
01:03:06.179 --> 01:03:09.969
up very much. But I'm pleased it didn't. I love
994
01:03:10.010 --> 01:03:15.139
the Houses of Parliament architecturally. I think they really... That whole...
995
01:03:16.489 --> 01:03:19.800
Old London architecture is pretty unreadable along the River Thames.
996
01:03:20.099 --> 01:03:23.159
I mean, anywhere. I love it. But along the River Thames. Imagine.
997
01:03:23.179 --> 01:03:28.119
Imagine us without it. And that is the story of
998
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:30.880
the gunpowder plot. Did you know it all? Did you
999
01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:34.059
know about the second bit? We don't know what Princess
1000
01:03:34.099 --> 01:03:37.000
Elizabeth thought of.
1001
01:03:39.889 --> 01:03:42.449
Her part in the plot that she didn't know about, obviously.
1002
01:03:44.289 --> 01:03:46.969
And her brother Charles would go on to be Charles I,
1003
01:03:47.550 --> 01:03:51.929
so he wasn't very popular either. So, I mean, that's
1004
01:03:51.949 --> 01:03:54.510
what I mean when my brain zooms out. You're lucky
1005
01:03:54.550 --> 01:04:00.739
we're not armpit deep in Charles II hiding up a tree.
1006
01:04:10.510 --> 01:04:12.809
You're lucky we're not up to our armpits in Charles
1007
01:04:12.869 --> 01:04:15.949
I having his head chopped off. Thank you so much
1008
01:04:15.989 --> 01:04:18.460
for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope
1009
01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:24.099
you're feeling cosy. Hampshire is looking very autumnal. I mean,
1010
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:26.579
it's really pulled the stops out. I don't know what
1011
01:04:26.599 --> 01:04:30.380
it is. Everything's to do with the weather. Everything's to
1012
01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:33.019
do with the weather in England at the moment. We
1013
01:04:33.139 --> 01:04:37.539
are stockpiling water. We're all getting wound up radios. We're
1014
01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:41.309
all getting wound up. But it's looking very beautiful. Lots
1015
01:04:41.349 --> 01:04:43.760
of yellows and reds. Well done. I'm sure. I hope
1016
01:04:43.820 --> 01:04:46.179
it's looking as beautiful where you are. As always, I'll
1017
01:04:46.219 --> 01:04:49.880
put pictures up, relevant pictures, on social media. You can
1018
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:53.699
find me at The Monday Night Review on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.
1019
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:57.440
You can come and join the Patreon for extra episodes.
1020
01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:59.880
There's over 100 extra episodes for you to listen to.
1021
01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:04.280
And you can email me, themondaynightreview at gmail.com. It makes
1022
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:09.280
my day. So, that would be nice. Also, if you...
1023
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:15.260
leave a comment, review, like it, subscribe to it, do
1024
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:18.070
all the things that are completely free to you that
1025
01:05:18.139 --> 01:05:21.510
make a massive, massive difference to me. I would really
1026
01:05:21.530 --> 01:05:24.570
appreciate it. Until next time, be kind, stay safe, and
1027
01:05:24.789 --> 01:05:28.130
always check the back seat before you drive.