ТРАНСКРИПЦИЯ 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:02.500 --> 00:00:06.620
Live from Leimert Park, this is the Tavis Smiley Show,
2
00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.699
and I'm your special guest host, Dr. Nacordelon Corté, filling
3
00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:14.560
in for Tavis as he's away, and we are so glad, so,
4
00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:17.980
so glad to be back in stride again. Before we
5
00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:20.129
get started with today's show, let me invite you to
6
00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:26.190
follow Tavis on Facebook and Instagram at TheRealTavisSmiley, and get
7
00:00:26.269 --> 00:00:29.449
updates on X, you know, that platform formerly known as Twitter.
8
00:00:30.370 --> 00:00:32.969
Just go ahead and follow him. at Tavis Smiley on
9
00:00:33.009 --> 00:00:35.270
that platform. You can also follow me on all the
10
00:00:35.289 --> 00:00:42.219
platforms at DrNicordalai. Just type in DrNiq, D-R-N-I-I-Q, and boom, bam, boom,
11
00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:44.780
there I am, fresh for you to follow. By the way,
12
00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:47.719
should you miss any part of today's program or want
13
00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:50.799
to catch up on previous shows, you can always visit
14
00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:55.289
the TavisSmileyShow.com or wherever you get your podcasts and listen
15
00:00:55.329 --> 00:00:59.170
to the Tavis Smiley Podcast at your leisure. A great
16
00:00:59.210 --> 00:01:01.770
show on tap for you today. In our second hour,
17
00:01:01.890 --> 00:01:05.150
two conversations. On the A side, I talk with attorney
18
00:01:05.209 --> 00:01:09.310
and TV judge Tanya Acker to get her analysis about
19
00:01:09.370 --> 00:01:14.099
the expected legal drama of the blue wave from investigations
20
00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.799
to impeachments and get her thoughts about the fate, the
21
00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:21.680
fate of the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice.
22
00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.060
On the B side, I talk with nationally syndicated Latino
23
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:29.569
columnist Ruben Navarrete about the impact of the Latino vote
24
00:01:29.689 --> 00:01:30.569
on the midterms.
25
00:01:31.390 --> 00:01:32.849
You know, I got a lot of questions there. You
26
00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:35.829
might have a lot of questions, too. And in our
27
00:01:35.870 --> 00:01:36.450
third hour, I.
28
00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:41.170
Check in with the executive director of Live Free USA,
29
00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:45.760
Pastor Mike McBride, and futurist and founder of Future Culture,
30
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:51.040
Steve Parget, about how they brought black faith leaders, organizers,
31
00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:56.180
and technologists together. at the 10th Annual Afrotech Conference for
32
00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.519
the Adoption and Signing of a Covenant Agreement on AI
33
00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:03.480
that was written by the people in the room and
34
00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:05.959
will be carried by Black churches into.
35
00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:06.859
The new age.
36
00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.520
That should be a fascinating conversation. I've been looking forward
37
00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.719
to it all week. But we commence today's show in
38
00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:17.759
this first hour talking politics and more with the co-director
39
00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:21.120
of the Politics and Education Program at the Teachers College
40
00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.479
at Columbia University, my friend Dr.
41
00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:26.039
Jonathan Collins.
42
00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.599
Welcome to a more, welcome to a, I almost said
43
00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:33.930
a more perfect union because he's also the democracy scholar
44
00:02:33.969 --> 00:02:36.250
on my afternoon drive time show, a more perfect union,
45
00:02:36.289 --> 00:02:40.229
which is on Tavis's home station on KBLA.
46
00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:43.509
Welcome back family. How you doing Dr. Collins?
47
00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:47.229
Dr. Cord, great to see you. Great to see you
48
00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:48.050
this morning. Glad to be here.
49
00:02:48.250 --> 00:02:50.669
It's great to see you. It's great to have you here.
50
00:02:51.050 --> 00:02:54.210
You are one of the sharpest minds in how democracy
51
00:02:54.569 --> 00:02:58.610
actually works at the ground floor, whether we're talking.
52
00:02:58.389 --> 00:03:00.930
About school boards or young voters.
53
00:03:01.969 --> 00:03:05.159
But you got your finger on the pulse of what's
54
00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:09.659
happening in the places where power starts. I've got to
55
00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:16.000
ask you about this Pete Hegseth impeachment. I want to
56
00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:19.039
start with this little plot twist here because, as you.
57
00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.949
Know, Dr. Collins, yesterday....
58
00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:27.919
Kentucky Republican Thomas Massey introduced eight articles of impeachment against
59
00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.139
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Three of them accuse him of
60
00:03:31.180 --> 00:03:36.870
waging war on Iran without authorization from Congress. Others cite
61
00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.340
civilian casualties, the boat strikes in the Caribbean, the capture
62
00:03:40.909 --> 00:03:45.509
of Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro, and the Pentagon scrutiny of Senator
63
00:03:45.530 --> 00:03:50.289
Mark Kelly. Hegseth calls it a sham. a sham from
64
00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:55.789
what he called a, quote, disgruntled, defeated congressman. Under House rules,
65
00:03:56.370 --> 00:03:59.169
leaders have two legislative days to bring it to a vote,
66
00:03:59.270 --> 00:04:02.490
and if it passes, Hegseth would be only the third
67
00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:04.740
cabinet secretary ever impeached.
68
00:04:05.349 --> 00:04:05.629
Dr.
69
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.419
Jonathan, a Republican, is doing what Democrats have been asked
70
00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:10.639
to do for a year.
71
00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:13.120
What does it tell you? That the
Load full transcript
first big.
72
00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:16.079
Accountability move after the election, it came from inside the GOP.
73
00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:20.699
It tells you that There's this thing that we like
74
00:04:20.730 --> 00:04:21.850
to do, Dr. Corte.
75
00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.569
We as human beings, we like to lick our finger
76
00:04:24.829 --> 00:04:28.370
and put it to the wind, see which direction the
77
00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:31.569
breeze is blowing. And I think that's exactly what is
78
00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:34.629
happening in this story, in this situation. The Republican Party,
79
00:04:35.069 --> 00:04:39.810
fresh off of getting blasted in the midterm election, it's
80
00:04:39.939 --> 00:04:43.600
not a surprise to see someone like Tom Massey from
81
00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.079
Kentucky initiating this impeachment campaign.
82
00:04:46.389 --> 00:04:49.269
He is reading the tea leaves, Dr. Corte.
83
00:04:49.529 --> 00:04:52.470
He is looking at the writing on the wall. The
84
00:04:52.509 --> 00:04:58.189
Republican Party's policies have been unfavorable, and especially the decision
85
00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:02.269
to initiate this foreign conflict. This has been the number
86
00:05:02.550 --> 00:05:07.009
one reason why energy costs in the United States are
87
00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:10.000
sky high. Your gas prices, if you're in the car
88
00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.769
right now, And you're looking at that gas tank and
89
00:05:12.829 --> 00:05:15.420
it's getting close to E and you are dreading the
90
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.060
idea of having to go to the gas pump because
91
00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:19.839
you know how much money is going to cost you.
92
00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:20.720
Guess what?
93
00:05:21.019 --> 00:05:24.639
It's all directly connected to the foreign conflict in Iran.
94
00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:30.220
And that's right on Pete Hexeth's shoulders. He is wearing that.
95
00:05:30.459 --> 00:05:33.810
It was a decision to go to war unilaterally without
96
00:05:33.829 --> 00:05:34.730
the support of Congress.
97
00:05:35.189 --> 00:05:36.230
It is a disaster.
98
00:05:36.509 --> 00:05:39.810
Well, we're going to follow this disaster when we come forward.
99
00:05:40.110 --> 00:05:42.769
You're listening to The Tavis Smiley Show. You are listening
100
00:05:42.829 --> 00:05:45.029
to and streaming The Tavis Smiley Show.
101
00:05:45.089 --> 00:05:45.870
I'm your guest host, Dr.
102
00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:49.110
Nkordelai Korte. I'm really delighted to be in conversation with Dr.
103
00:05:49.129 --> 00:05:53.189
Jonathan Collins, Associate Professor of Political Science at the Columbia University.
104
00:05:53.970 --> 00:05:58.310
He is also a democracy scholar on my afternoon drive-time show,
105
00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:04.199
More Perfect Union, on KBLA, Tavis' home station. And we've
106
00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:09.050
been talking about... Secretary Pete Hegseth, you know, he's feeling
107
00:06:10.069 --> 00:06:14.810
the fire, right? And not in the Tina Marie sort
108
00:06:14.860 --> 00:06:20.079
of way, if you follow. He is feeling the fire
109
00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:24.579
from inside the party. Representative Thomas Massey has drawn out
110
00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:26.459
articles of impeachment.
111
00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:29.009
And he ain't playing around. He ain't playing around. I
112
00:06:29.009 --> 00:06:30.129
think a lot of people thought that.
113
00:06:31.230 --> 00:06:35.790
You know, the Democrats were going to lead the effort
114
00:06:35.829 --> 00:06:40.639
to begin to impeach cabinet members who have broken the
115
00:06:40.980 --> 00:06:45.399
law or who have allegedly broken the law. And it
116
00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:49.680
seems that this is Republican on Republican right now. Take
117
00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:53.490
a listen to what Secretary Hexheff had to say during
118
00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:58.189
a fiery, fiery press conference on Capitol Hill just this morning.
119
00:06:59.649 --> 00:07:00.709
It's a political spectacle.
120
00:07:01.769 --> 00:07:06.149
A personal manifesto driven by ego and resentment. Time for
121
00:07:06.790 --> 00:07:09.250
one man's final days in Congress to try to do
122
00:07:09.290 --> 00:07:14.689
damage to this president, this country, and most irresponsibly, the
123
00:07:14.730 --> 00:07:16.279
warriors who defend it.
124
00:07:17.230 --> 00:07:22.220
It's a farce and it's a stunt. And everybody knows it.
125
00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:28.100
In the 250 years of our American Republic, no Secretary
126
00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:31.620
of War, or Secretary of Defense has ever been impeached
127
00:07:31.709 --> 00:07:37.720
for carrying out lawful military operations. And in our case,
128
00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:40.360
successful ones at that.
129
00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:42.040
Not once.
130
00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:46.139
War powers resolution or not, not under Reagan in Lebanon,
131
00:07:46.579 --> 00:07:50.149
not under Clinton in Kosovo, not under Obama in Iraq
132
00:07:50.209 --> 00:07:55.029
and Syria, not under Biden in Iraq and Syria. That's
133
00:07:55.050 --> 00:07:58.949
the standard. The history is clear and it's very straightforward.
134
00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:02.040
And one disgruntled congressman wants.
135
00:08:01.850 --> 00:08:05.589
To shred it over policy disagreements.
136
00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:08.069
That's what it is, policy disagreements.
137
00:08:08.870 --> 00:08:13.709
Not high crimes, not misdemeanors, not treason, not bribery, not
138
00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:16.649
the kinds of offenses the founders intended when they wrote
139
00:08:16.829 --> 00:08:20.990
the impeachment clause. The proper remedy for a policy disagreement,
140
00:08:21.589 --> 00:08:22.329
it's legislation.
141
00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:29.579
A policy disagreement. Dr. Collins, would you reduce....
142
00:08:31.110 --> 00:08:37.250
Calls for Pete Hegseth's impeachment to simple policy disagreements?
143
00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:40.169
Is that what this is? Is that the way you
144
00:08:40.190 --> 00:08:42.610
see it? A policy disagreement?
145
00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:47.029
Yeah, it's much deeper than that. I'm surprised that he
146
00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:51.450
undersells what's on the table in such an extreme way.
147
00:08:51.490 --> 00:08:54.750
I mean, this is a gross undersell. We're talking about.
148
00:08:56.210 --> 00:09:00.529
The policy disagreement he's referring to is the Iran war
149
00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:04.549
authorization without Congress. Sure, that's a policy disagreement. But what's
150
00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:10.649
also in the eight articles that is cited in the resolution,
151
00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:18.889
civilian casualties, they're putting over 1,200 bodies on Pete Hex's head,
152
00:09:19.590 --> 00:09:23.570
responsible for over 1,000 deaths. When you start to factor
153
00:09:23.629 --> 00:09:26.950
in the boat strikes, when you start to factor in
154
00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:32.769
deaths in the Iran conflict. He's also cited for retaliation
155
00:09:32.809 --> 00:09:36.289
against Senator Mark Kelly. Can't forget about that. Allegedly using
156
00:09:36.330 --> 00:09:41.590
the Pentagon's authority against a sitting senator for speech concerning
157
00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:45.610
unlawful military orders. Y'all remember when they just up and
158
00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:47.590
kidnapped the leader of Venezuela?
159
00:09:49.289 --> 00:09:57.279
Mm-hmm. These are serious, serious... crimes that have costs and consequences,
160
00:09:57.370 --> 00:10:00.409
not just for us domestically, but for the state. of
161
00:10:00.470 --> 00:10:01.210
the world.
162
00:10:01.789 --> 00:10:05.009
This is the message that we are sending to countries
163
00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:09.529
around the world, that it's okay to initiate conflict unilaterally
164
00:10:09.590 --> 00:10:12.629
without any kind of democratic process or any kind of deliberation.
165
00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:15.570
That it's okay to just kidnap foreign leaders of countries
166
00:10:15.590 --> 00:10:20.779
who you want to exploit for their oil resources. This
167
00:10:22.450 --> 00:10:25.529
is so much deeper than policy. This is dead bodies
168
00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:29.250
on the streets. This is an elementary school that was.
169
00:10:29.330 --> 00:10:30.769
Bombed, Dr.
170
00:10:30.809 --> 00:10:31.450
Neal.
171
00:10:32.110 --> 00:10:34.269
These are war crimes.
172
00:10:34.649 --> 00:10:41.299
He wanted to be the secretary of war. Well, you're
173
00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.039
the secretary of war, and now you need to pay
174
00:10:43.059 --> 00:10:45.860
the consequences for acting in ways that are irresponsible.
175
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:49.480
And so, you know, I want to bring this this
176
00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:53.809
conversation to the streets for a second, because the core
177
00:10:53.889 --> 00:10:58.769
charge is that is war without Congress's permission.
178
00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:01.409
And so and so for our leaders, learners.
179
00:11:01.250 --> 00:11:07.379
And listeners who are tuning out the procedure of it all,
180
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.639
what should what should a grandmother, what should, you know,
181
00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:14.129
an uncle in Memphis do? you know, why should a
182
00:11:14.169 --> 00:11:16.090
grandmother or why should an uncle in Memphis, why should
183
00:11:16.110 --> 00:11:18.549
they care about the war power clause anyway?
184
00:11:19.490 --> 00:11:23.049
Well, because it protects one of the fundamental principles of democracy,
185
00:11:23.110 --> 00:11:27.389
which is separation of powers. And so we may abuse
186
00:11:27.429 --> 00:11:29.230
the fact that the separation of powers are important, but
187
00:11:29.250 --> 00:11:31.509
think about it this way. If we lived in a
188
00:11:31.750 --> 00:11:34.759
world where, or a society where, in a country where
189
00:11:35.379 --> 00:11:39.740
one person, all the power was concentrated in one person
190
00:11:40.179 --> 00:11:42.690
and whatever decisions that that person wanted to make, That's
191
00:11:42.730 --> 00:11:44.909
the way it went. And whenever they go rogue and
192
00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:47.549
do things that put us in danger, there's no check.
193
00:11:47.950 --> 00:11:53.909
There's no balance. The War Powers Act of 1973 was
194
00:11:53.970 --> 00:11:57.330
to ensure that we maintain those separations of power.
195
00:11:57.370 --> 00:12:02.269
Because, Dr. Neat, listeners, do you know what the.
196
00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:07.919
Legislation in 1973 was all about? This was a response
197
00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:12.019
to the Vietnam War, where we had some of the
198
00:12:12.620 --> 00:12:18.059
largest losses of American lives in a conflict in modern
199
00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:23.120
American history because the president and his administration, the Nixon administration,
200
00:12:23.659 --> 00:12:24.779
acted unilaterally.
201
00:12:24.830 --> 00:12:27.809
And you know what happened to Nixon after that conflict, Dr.
202
00:12:27.830 --> 00:12:27.970
Me?
203
00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:29.049
What happened?
204
00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:32.669
Got him up out of there. Packed him up.
205
00:12:32.909 --> 00:12:33.590
Tell the people.
206
00:12:34.769 --> 00:12:36.970
Impeached in shame.
207
00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:41.679
The word Nixon is mud in American politics because of
208
00:12:42.710 --> 00:12:47.789
The way in which he acted as a president unwilling
209
00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:52.649
to accept the separation of powers. What we're accusing Pete
210
00:12:52.710 --> 00:12:57.360
Hexup of in this moment is the Nixon playbook being
211
00:12:57.460 --> 00:12:58.740
replicated in real time.
212
00:12:58.779 --> 00:12:59.639
So this is a big deal.
213
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.779
So, Dr. Collins, look, Republicans hold the House for a
214
00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.320
few more weeks. Does
this pass? Does it fail? Does
215
00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:10.370
it get tabled? What's what's the what should we be watching?
216
00:13:11.830 --> 00:13:16.490
Get your popcorn out, get you a nice soda, maybe
217
00:13:16.529 --> 00:13:19.389
an Icy, if that's more your style. Actually, I won't
218
00:13:19.409 --> 00:13:21.269
encourage the Icy because we got to keep our sugar
219
00:13:21.309 --> 00:13:21.870
levels right.
220
00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:25.450
You know what I'm saying?
221
00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:28.789
We don't need that in our community, but this is
222
00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:32.840
going to be political must-see TV because what we've been
223
00:13:32.909 --> 00:13:36.100
seeing from President Trump, if you saw his 60 Minutes interview,
224
00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:40.940
is at least some level of contrition and acceptance of
225
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:45.929
the fact that His policies were unpopular and led to
226
00:13:46.730 --> 00:13:52.009
the slaughtering that took place of the Republican Party in
227
00:13:52.029 --> 00:13:55.600
the midterm elections. And so if Donald Trump is willing
228
00:13:55.629 --> 00:13:59.539
to admit that the unpopularity of his policies contributed to
229
00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:03.120
the result, again, licking your finger, holding it up in
230
00:14:03.139 --> 00:14:05.940
the air, seeing which way the wind is blowing, I
231
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.419
expect more members of the Republican Party to do the
232
00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:11.120
same because right now it's all about self-preservation.
233
00:14:11.179 --> 00:14:11.419
Yeah.
234
00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:12.029
Yeah.
235
00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:15.070
The only other thing I would add, uh, for folks
236
00:14:15.309 --> 00:14:17.309
who may shrug their shoulders and say, okay, you know,
237
00:14:17.350 --> 00:14:21.830
why should we care about this? Um, just a reminder, uh, that, uh,
238
00:14:22.409 --> 00:14:25.289
we also have black service members and military families that
239
00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:28.559
are a part of this conversation, uh, that, uh, you know,
240
00:14:29.019 --> 00:14:34.899
bear the brunt of some of the short-sighted, uh, decisions. Um,
241
00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:38.940
you know, some of the targeting that has been reported of, uh,
242
00:14:39.019 --> 00:14:43.009
black service members, uh, You know, for, you know, black
243
00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:47.629
men that don't shave their faces every day. And I
244
00:14:47.690 --> 00:14:49.230
count myself among among them.
245
00:14:49.549 --> 00:14:49.850
Right.
246
00:14:50.570 --> 00:14:53.070
They're trying to change policy to force them to have
247
00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:57.149
to do that, knowing that shaving every day has an
248
00:14:57.289 --> 00:15:01.320
adverse reaction on our skin or it can. And and so,
249
00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:04.379
you know, we got to, you know, keep our eye
250
00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:08.240
on these issues because they do impact us.
251
00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:09.610
They do impact us.
252
00:15:10.909 --> 00:15:14.440
You know, I want to turn to talk a little
253
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.879
bit about.
254
00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:24.500
Hakeem Jeffries. The promise. You're beaming in from New York,
255
00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:25.830
so you know exactly what I'm talking about.
256
00:15:26.690 --> 00:15:30.970
Last week, Hakeem Jeffries, he told Don Lemon, quote, we
257
00:15:31.009 --> 00:15:35.409
will deliver accountability. And he said anyone screwing over the
258
00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:41.649
American people would face– you know, some consequences. They're going
259
00:15:41.669 --> 00:15:44.049
to face it on day one of the new Congress.
260
00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:46.049
That's the promise. Now, here's the bill.
261
00:15:46.870 --> 00:15:50.889
Pollster Terrence Woodbury, your Morehouse brother, he told the folks
262
00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:54.409
over at the Griot that the blacklash was never about
263
00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:57.889
electing Democrats, and so the blacklash does not end just
264
00:15:57.950 --> 00:16:01.389
because Democrats won. His polling found that less than half
265
00:16:01.590 --> 00:16:05.509
of black voters believe that Democrats will make their lives better.
266
00:16:05.970 --> 00:16:09.110
Melanie Campbell, over at the National Coalition of Black Civic Participation,
267
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:12.159
She put it plainly. She said, if you can't get
268
00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:16.659
it done, you better be caught trying. And Westmore said,
269
00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.860
we don't need a 100 day plan. We need a
270
00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:22.549
100 hour plan.
271
00:16:23.330 --> 00:16:26.669
And so, Dr. Collins, let's talk accountability.
272
00:16:26.690 --> 00:16:30.909
Accountability for the last administration versus results for this neighborhood.
273
00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:36.250
Can Democrats do both or does one eat the other's oxygen?
274
00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:40.490
Oh, no, I think these two work hand in hand,
275
00:16:40.929 --> 00:16:44.450
you know, on because you have to look at, OK, well,
276
00:16:44.929 --> 00:16:50.159
what realistically are the powers? What are the levers that
277
00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.259
this new Democratic majority can pull? And so they have
278
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:57.519
the ability to initiate congressional investigations. They can hold hearings.
279
00:16:57.580 --> 00:17:01.019
They can request records. They can authorize subpoenas. They have
280
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:05.819
the ability to pursue impeachment per last segment. It's it's
281
00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:10.680
already done. we're already on that beaten path a little
282
00:17:10.700 --> 00:17:12.200
bit by the Republican Party.
283
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.400
That's the crazy part about this.
284
00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:17.900
They're pursuing removal of office, proposing new legislation, and then
285
00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:22.859
negotiations over budgets and spending, as well as criminal prosecutions.
286
00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:26.430
So everything's on the board. Everything's on the table. I
287
00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:29.329
think why they work hand in hand too is because
288
00:17:29.849 --> 00:17:33.470
you're going to have to go after Trump personnel, Trump
289
00:17:33.490 --> 00:17:40.259
administration personnel that have been inadequate for their positions in
290
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.589
order to also pursue policy goals that are going to
291
00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:48.029
satisfy the voters who are the wind beneath the wings
292
00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:52.190
that are bringing this Democratic majority into office right now.
293
00:17:52.509 --> 00:17:56.819
You can't expect a new policy reform to be implemented
294
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.700
by an administration that has brought on more and more incompetence.
295
00:18:02.019 --> 00:18:03.339
You have to attack both.
296
00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:08.700
Improving the actual human capital of government while also coming
297
00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:12.460
through with reform bills that can actually make lives better
298
00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:13.619
for everyday Americans.
299
00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:14.920
That's the goal.
300
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:19.069
Isn't it wild that we talk about making lives better
301
00:18:19.089 --> 00:18:21.329
for everyday Americans, we talk about it like it's this
302
00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:26.359
radical new thing, right? I mean, if you're in Congress,
303
00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:28.900
the root word in your title is representative.
304
00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:30.480
It's representative.
305
00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.289
And You know, there's just a critical mass of American
306
00:18:33.329 --> 00:18:35.609
people that aren't feeling the relief. They're not they're feeling
307
00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:38.950
that their government is actually working against them and not
308
00:18:39.029 --> 00:18:43.549
for them. We're watching the weaponization of government happen right
309
00:18:43.589 --> 00:18:47.269
before our very eyes. You know, Terrence Woodbury says that
310
00:18:47.829 --> 00:18:52.019
black men who drifted towards Trump back in 2024 came
311
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.099
back but remain swing voters.
312
00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:55.599
What do you.
313
00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:59.940
See among young black voters that we're not talking about
314
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:01.099
enough on airwaves?
315
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:05.440
Well, we forget the fact that young Black men in
316
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.259
particular are growing up in a very different America. You know,
317
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.640
this is a very different time. You know, think about
318
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:16.380
where we are economically, right? The workforce has changed. You know,
319
00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:19.559
if you were coming out of college, you know, 10,
320
00:19:19.549 -->
00:19:23.690
especially 20 years ago, the expectation is there are all
321
00:19:23.769 --> 00:19:26.450
these white-collar jobs that are available for you, you know,
322
00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:31.609
whether it's going into engineering, especially emerging technologies. Even if
323
00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:36.720
you were If you're coming out for working class, junior college,
324
00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:40.130
maybe no college at all, there's a manufacturing industry that's
325
00:19:40.150 --> 00:19:42.589
there for you to also be able to make a living,
326
00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:46.630
work towards a pension where you can, provide for your family.
327
00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:50.630
A lot of those economies are gone or they're evaporating
328
00:19:50.670 --> 00:19:55.200
right now. If you're a young black male, 18 to.
329
00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:58.319
29, what are the prospects for you?
330
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:01.680
And I think that was one of the appeals of Trump, unfortunately,
331
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.839
is that they looked at these economic conditions and they
332
00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:07.859
felt like the Democratic Party wasn't speaking to it. They
333
00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:10.259
gave Trump a chance. But I think they're also quickly
334
00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:12.779
realizing Trump's economic plan.
335
00:20:12.819 --> 00:20:13.940
What was it? Platinum plus?
336
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.099
Oh, the platinum plan. And this is the wild thing.
337
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.940
I heard nobody talk about that platinum plan since he
338
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:25.500
got elected. Everybody, ooh, the platinum plan versus the opportunity.
339
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.779
Agenda, right?
340
00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:29.779
The opportunity agenda that Kamala Harris had put forward during
341
00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.599
her campaign. I heard nothing about the platinum plan. Let
342
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.799
me just say to the people, I think the platinum
343
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:37.769
plan is in the witness protection program.
344
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.180
It's missing. I didn't even remember.
345
00:20:42.549 --> 00:20:44.509
I just remember it sounded something like a strip club.
346
00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:47.089
That's the only thing that I could eat. And I
347
00:20:47.089 --> 00:20:50.329
was like something something gentlemen's clubby.
348
00:20:50.470 --> 00:20:50.910
Oh, yeah.
349
00:20:50.990 --> 00:20:55.890
Platinum plan. Right. That did nothing for that for that demographic.
350
00:20:56.049 --> 00:20:58.339
And so I think they're looking at the messages that
351
00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:02.619
are coming from the Democratic Party now. Again, this election
352
00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:04.940
was not just about the Democratic Party as a whole.
353
00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:09.819
This was about young Democratic Party leaders. This was the
354
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:15.869
millennial generation asserting itself as the new frontier within the
355
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:20.730
Democratic Party, pushing these messages of affordability. And that is
356
00:21:20.789 --> 00:21:22.730
what's bringing young Black voters into the fold.
357
00:21:22.809 --> 00:21:25.789
And speaking of millennials, I mean, one of them, Wes Moore,
358
00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:31.210
who a lot of people believe may put his name
359
00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:33.099
in the hat to run for president of the United
360
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:33.480
States in 2028.
361
00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:33.599
Yeah.
362
00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:38.059
According to his sort of short list of priorities that
363
00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:41.359
he thinks Democrats should focus on, ending the Iran war,
364
00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:45.420
reversing tariffs and health care cuts, more contracts for black
365
00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:47.299
businesses and apprenticeships.
366
00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:50.410
When we come forward, Dr. Collins, I want to ask you,
367
00:21:51.269 --> 00:21:51.569
which of.
368
00:21:51.549 --> 00:21:56.150
These is realistic with a Republican president holding the veto pin?
369
00:21:56.609 --> 00:21:59.329
You are listening to and streaming the Tavis Miley Show.
370
00:21:59.670 --> 00:22:00.390
More with Dr.
371
00:22:00.490 --> 00:22:01.200
Jonathan E.
372
00:22:01.609 --> 00:22:03.549
Collins of Columbia University when we come forward.
373
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.759
Are listening to and streaming The Tavis Miley Show. I'm
374
00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:07.579
your guest host, Dr.
375
00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:11.920
Nkordelai Korte, and really delighted to be in conversation with
376
00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:13.839
my friend and brother, Dr.
377
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:15.220
Jonathan E. Collins.
378
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.240
He is an associate professor of political science at Columbia University.
379
00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:25.589
He is the resident democracy scholar on my afternoon drive-time show,
380
00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:30.069
More Perfect Union, on KBLA Talk 1580, Tavis' home station.
381
00:22:31.029 --> 00:22:39.029
And we've been Talking about Hakeem Jeffries, that is the
382
00:22:39.089 --> 00:22:44.029
topic du jour, but most importantly, what needs to get
383
00:22:44.109 --> 00:22:49.390
done in order to keep the momentum that Democrats have
384
00:22:50.859 --> 00:22:53.799
created with that historic election just one week ago today.
385
00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:55.099
Before the break, Dr.
386
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.880
Collins, I gave you the short list of priorities according
387
00:22:58.940 --> 00:23:04.500
to Maryland Governor Wes Moore. And I want to ask you,
388
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:08.309
which of those is realistic with a Republican president holding
389
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:13.150
the veto pen, ending the Iran war, reversing the tariffs,
390
00:23:13.670 --> 00:23:16.990
health care cuts, more contracts for Black businesses and apprenticeships?
391
00:23:17.269 -->
00:23:17.930
What's realistic?
392
00:23:20.089 --> 00:23:25.549
Well, I mean, I wouldn't overestimate the ability for the
393
00:23:25.589 --> 00:23:28.650
Democrats to put together a coalition that could override a veto.
394
00:23:29.269 --> 00:23:33.230
And so this has multiple parts to it. On one hand,
395
00:23:33.269 --> 00:23:36.869
there is real concern that President Trump would exercise veto
396
00:23:37.299 --> 00:23:42.359
authority over proposals sent by a Democratic Party majority that
397
00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:42.880
he doesn't like.
398
00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:45.180
There's precedent for that.
399
00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:50.289
Presidents become almost four times more likely to initiate a
400
00:23:50.329 --> 00:23:55.329
veto or to veto a bill when their party is
401
00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.549
the minority party or basically when the opposition party controls
402
00:23:59.589 --> 00:24:03.690
both chambers. Again, four times more likely. to veto policies
403
00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:06.569
when this is the case. On the flip side, vetoes
404
00:24:06.589 --> 00:24:09.349
have become rarer and rarer, more and more rare over
405
00:24:09.369 --> 00:24:13.200
the last few presidential cycles. So, you know, President Obama,
406
00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:17.460
even when the opposition party was in control, only initiated
407
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.480
about 10 vetoes.
408
00:24:20.740 --> 00:24:22.640
George Bush, about 11.
409
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.369
You didn't really see the use of veto power until, well,
410
00:24:27.890 --> 00:24:30.349
the use of veto power goes back mainly before the
411
00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:31.490
year 2000.
412
00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:34.440
It's more of a antiquity kind of thing.
413
00:24:35.539 --> 00:24:37.779
The issue with Trump is that if there's anything we've
414
00:24:37.819 --> 00:24:40.240
seen from him, is that he's more of a president
415
00:24:40.269 --> 00:24:43.630
who governs like a Reagan, like a Nixon. These are
416
00:24:43.690 --> 00:24:45.670
also two presidents that use that veto.
417
00:24:45.470 --> 00:24:47.009
Authority a lot.
418
00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:51.490
President Nixon, in fact, all of his vetoes were done
419
00:24:51.710 --> 00:24:56.309
while his party was in the minority where the opposition party.
420
00:24:56.230 --> 00:24:57.470
Was in control.
421
00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:00.170
So if there's any parallel, again, going back to the
422
00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:03.609
first segment with Pete Hegseth, the parallels between.
423
00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:06.329
Nixon administration, Trump administration.
424
00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:09.930
If I'm Westmore and I'm concerned about what might happen,
425
00:25:10.130 --> 00:25:13.049
I'm looking at what happened with that Nixon administration. And
426
00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:18.910
I say, oh, that's probably a prologue of past to
427
00:25:18.970 --> 00:25:20.359
expect here in the next few weeks.
428
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:24.819
Our elders, they voted out of a sense of duty
429
00:25:24.940 --> 00:25:27.400
as we sort of sort through a lot of the
430
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.859
insights from exit polls from a week ago. It seems
431
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:34.619
that our young people voted out of dealmaking.
432
00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.579
Is that fair? And if so, is that a problem?
433
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:46.019
I think, you know, dealmaking is a very interesting way
434
00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:50.799
to frame it. If you look at the framing of
435
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:54.809
the candidates, I would say that there was a new
436
00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:58.170
form of pragmatism that was at place. I think there
437
00:25:58.210 --> 00:26:01.069
has been pressure on the Democratic Party to be less
438
00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:04.210
abstract and Right. You know, one of the things, just
439
00:26:04.269 --> 00:26:06.630
an exercise that I did during one of my classes
440
00:26:06.670 --> 00:26:09.150
last week, I asked my students, what was the Democratic
441
00:26:09.190 --> 00:26:12.950
Party messaging in the 2024 election?
442
00:26:13.609 --> 00:26:13.750
Right.
443
00:26:13.809 --> 00:26:16.849
What was the brand of the Democratic Party? And they
444
00:26:16.910 --> 00:26:20.190
basically arrived at, well, not Trump. I think it was
445
00:26:20.230 --> 00:26:21.970
a little bit more complicated than that, but that was
446
00:26:22.009 --> 00:26:24.910
kind of the sort of the upshot that people took
447
00:26:24.970 --> 00:26:27.470
away from the Democratic Party's brand. And so what was
448
00:26:27.509 --> 00:26:33.440
the brand for 2026? And they said affordability. And so
449
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.880
I wouldn't call it deal making. I would call it pragmatism.
450
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.500
I think the Democratic Party has been forced to be practical.
451
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.220
Tell me how any opposition to Trump, again, is going
452
00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:48.490
to help everyday people. How is it going to put
453
00:26:48.569 --> 00:26:52.849
more money in people's pockets? And so I think that's
454
00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:57.789
the choice that young and older voters made in the midterms.
455
00:26:58.650 --> 00:27:01.509
On election night, the president told The New York Times
456
00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:05.970
that he was absolutely willing, quotes, absolutely willing to accept
457
00:27:06.009 --> 00:27:09.170
the results. But by Sunday, he posted on Truth Social, quotes,
458
00:27:09.230 --> 00:27:13.559
does anybody really believe that this election was honest? He
459
00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.839
wrote that that early voting dumps were were too big
460
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.319
to overcome and that it's all about the machines, which
461
00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:24.730
are far more important than the voter. Election officials across
462
00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:28.630
the country have not raised major concerns about early voting
463
00:27:28.670 --> 00:27:33.529
or machines in these races. And in many cases, particularly
464
00:27:33.849 --> 00:27:37.230
in many of the red states where Democrats won, Republicans
465
00:27:37.549 --> 00:27:38.450
run the elections.
466
00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:44.170
And so Dr. Collins, he accepted the results, then unaccepted it.
467
00:27:44.789 --> 00:27:47.289
Is this a warning shot for 2028 or is this
468
00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:49.470
just a man venting about a bad week?
469
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:50.940
Dr.
470
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.799
Corte, this is not a warning for 2028. This is
471
00:27:54.980 --> 00:28:01.960
a warning for 2027. So what's going to happen in
472
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:06.849
January of 2027? These new members of Congress are going
473
00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:11.890
to be sworn in. Do you remember what happened in
474
00:28:13.069 --> 00:28:18.250
January of 2020? January 6th of 2020.
475
00:28:18.250 --> 00:28:19.970
Can't forget it was right there in Washington, D.C.
476
00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:22.009
You were there.
477
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:32.170
Now, back in November, President Trump gave lip service to
478
00:28:32.289 --> 00:28:38.059
accepting the results of the presidential election. He also started
479
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:41.059
to sort of drop these tea leaves that he has
480
00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:45.940
questions about voting machines and the vote counts.
481
00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:46.549
In certain states.
482
00:28:47.490 --> 00:28:49.170
All of this started to leak through, but it didn't
483
00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:55.599
bubble up. until January. So again, I hear what he's
484
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:58.130
saying in interviews. To your point, I saw what he
485
00:28:58.150 --> 00:29:02.109
said on Truth Social. But I wrote an op-ed about
486
00:29:02.150 --> 00:29:03.910
this in the Washington Post that you can check out.
487
00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:07.609
This is my big fear, is that when it really
488
00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:12.329
comes down to it, that Trump supporters will not actually
489
00:29:13.009 --> 00:29:16.880
accept the outcome of the midterm elections. And there is
490
00:29:16.930 --> 00:29:23.420
historical precedent for there to be major political violence should
491
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:28.839
this not happen. So again, believe it when you see it, people.
492
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:32.769
Wait and see what happens when it's swearing in time
493
00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:34.970
in January, because it looks like we're going to get
494
00:29:35.029 --> 00:29:38.990
closer and closer and closer to Trump, again, starting to
495
00:29:39.029 --> 00:29:43.200
put a battery in the back of his supporters if
496
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.000
it means that he can potentially retain power.
497
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:47.980
But even in putting that battery in the pack of
498
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.720
his supporters it seems like a lot of his supporters
499
00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.289
you know have left him by the roadside i mean
500
00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:55.210
you know i think i was reading somewhere that uh
501
00:29:55.650 --> 00:29:59.569
there's a County in Mississippi that is home to like
502
00:29:59.609 --> 00:30:02.470
the grand wizard of the KKK. And even that County
503
00:30:02.529 --> 00:30:05.910
in Mississippi voted for Scott Cologne. And so, you know,
504
00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:08.690
I think, you know, there's a lot of buyer's remorse
505
00:30:09.549 --> 00:30:14.569
that it seems a lot of, of Trump voters, MAGA voters,
506
00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:20.190
even independent voters that supported him in 2024 are experiencing.
507
00:30:20.230 --> 00:30:23.869
And so I, you know, you know, Maybe we're wise
508
00:30:23.930 --> 00:30:29.190
or not to think that that reality means that any
509
00:30:29.250 --> 00:30:33.279
attempt at January 6th, the sequel ain't going to happen.
510
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.200
No, I think that's fair. You know, if you also
511
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:39.059
look at the difference between 2020 and 2026. 2020 was
512
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:40.660
a very close election. 2026 was a massacre.
513
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:52.769
It was a blowout. This was it was not. a
514
00:30:52.849 --> 00:30:56.890
close call whatsoever. It was a destruction. It was a demolition.
515
00:30:59.660 --> 00:31:05.500
Basically, if the East Wing of the White House, what
516
00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:07.019
he did to the East Wing of the White House
517
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:13.829
is what voters did to Republicans in office in 2026.
518
00:31:13.829 --> 00:31:14.589
Is that what you're saying, Dr.
519
00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:14.950
Collins?
520
00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:20.230
Yeah, exactly. Destroyed it, demolished it, ruined it.
521
00:31:21.210 --> 00:31:22.789
We go, we go, we go come back to that
522
00:31:22.809 --> 00:31:25.230
in a moment, but I also want to talk about, uh,
523
00:31:25.349 --> 00:31:29.910
Wes Moore because, uh, uh, some good news. Um, Wes Moore,
524
00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:32.799
he told the griot that being America's only black governor
525
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.579
was never a title that he wanted. And he added
526
00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:38.140
that making history is not the assignment as chair of
527
00:31:38.180 --> 00:31:42.039
the national governor's association. He campaigned for Keisha Lance bottoms
528
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.440
and David Crowley and Aaron Ford, uh, and all three
529
00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:50.380
of them, one, uh, and one, uh, handedly. Uh, and, uh,
530
00:31:50.730 --> 00:31:54.220
We're going to talk about that and more when we
531
00:31:54.259 --> 00:31:57.079
come forward. You're listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show.
532
00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:00.819
This gentleman right here in the Morehouse swag, that's Dr.
533
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:03.599
Jonathan E. Collins of Columbia University. You better know.
534
00:32:03.619 -->
00:32:09.109
From the Mert Park with love, this is Tavis Smiley.
535
00:32:14.009 --> 00:32:19.150
When your child isn't feeling well, Mommy, they need a
536
00:32:19.190 --> 00:32:22.420
good night's sleep. That's when to reach for Vicks VapoRub.
537
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.089
Applying a gentle layer of VapoRub on your child's chest
538
00:32:26.349 --> 00:32:29.650
releases soothing vapors that start working right away and provides
539
00:32:29.710 --> 00:32:32.630
relief that lasts up to eight hours. It's one small
540
00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:36.170
act that helps everyone get a good night's sleep. Try
541
00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:39.269
Vicks VapoRub and trust a brand trusted by parents for
542
00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:41.950
over 130 years. Use as directed.
543
00:32:41.970 --> 00:32:45.089
An official message from Medicare.
544
00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:48.759
Medicare plans change from one year to the next. And
545
00:32:48.819 --> 00:32:51.619
this year, it's important for you to review your current
546
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:55.460
coverage and compare all your options during Medicare Open Enrollment.
547
00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:59.769
Compare health plans, drug coverage, and costs. See if you
548
00:32:59.809 --> 00:33:02.569
can save some money, and don't forget to make sure
549
00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:07.809
your drugs are covered. Open Enrollment ends December 7th. Visit Medicare.gov
550
00:33:08.089 --> 00:33:10.380
or call 1-800-MEDICARE.
551
00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:12.960
Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
552
00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:17.509
It just smells like nostalgic breakfast memories. Hey, I'm Ellie.
553
00:33:17.589 --> 00:33:18.250
Hey, I'm Taylor.
554
00:33:18.329 --> 00:33:20.609
And a little thing we love about the Chick-fil-A Chicken
555
00:33:20.630 --> 00:33:22.230
and Waffles Breakfast Sandwich is.
556
00:33:22.369 --> 00:33:24.250
It's the perfect mix of sweet and savory.
557
00:33:24.349 --> 00:33:28.359
The combination of crispy, juicy, savory chicken with the sweetness
558
00:33:28.450 --> 00:33:30.140
and fluffy softness of a waffle.
559
00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:31.920
And the bacon just makes it better.
560
00:33:32.019 --> 00:33:34.579
Plus the fact that it's handheld, 10 out of 10.
561
00:33:34.579 --> 00:33:35.880
Every bite is a home run.
562
00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:38.480
Order the Chick-fil-A Chicken and Waffles Breakfast Sandwich with a
563
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:40.819
caramel cream cold brew on the Chick-fil-A app today.
564
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.599
Real guests paid for their testimonials.
565
00:33:43.430 --> 00:33:46.430
Hey, Dad, how do airplanes fly?
566
00:33:46.670 --> 00:33:47.630
What's in this box?
567
00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:49.829
Can I touch this?
568
00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:52.309
Where does sand come from?
569
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.559
Is this tree good for climbing? What happens if I
570
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:57.700
mix these two things together?
571
00:33:58.660 --> 00:33:59.720
How are babies made?
572
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:02.000
What does this thing do?
573
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.380
Kids are curious about everything, including guns. Talking to them
574
00:34:07.420 --> 00:34:09.880
about gun safety in your home is a good first step,
575
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.500
but you can do more. Always keep your guns locked, unloaded,
576
00:34:13.699 --> 00:34:17.010
and stored separately from ammunition. Storing your guns securely is
577
00:34:17.050 --> 00:34:20.469
the best way to prevent family fire, including unintentional shootings.
578
00:34:20.849 --> 00:34:23.449
For more information on safe gun storage and ways to
579
00:34:23.489 --> 00:34:28.530
keep your family safe, visit endfamilyfire.org. That's endfamilyfire.org.
580
00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:32.739
What do we keep in the attic? What's this thing called?
581
00:34:33.630 --> 00:34:35.510
Can I ride my bike backwards?
582
00:34:36.670 --> 00:34:39.010
Like I said, kids are curious. It's up to us
583
00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:41.949
to keep them safe. Brought to you by N Family Fire, Brady,
584
00:34:42.070 --> 00:34:42.800
and the Ad Council.
585
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.940
Helping to make you the most knowledgeable person in your
586
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.360
circle of friends. This is Tavis Smiley.
587
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:54.440
You are listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show.
588
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.559
I'm your guest host, Dr. Nakordelai Korte.
589
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.119
He is Dr. Jonathan E.
590
00:34:58.179 --> 00:35:03.340
Collins, professor of political science at Columbia University. and proud
591
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:07.179
Morehouse man. In case you didn't know, for those of
592
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.079
you that are streaming us live right now, you can
593
00:35:09.139 --> 00:35:14.420
see the Morehouse swag is swagging. And so there you
594
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:18.530
have it. Speaking of swag, let me tell you something.
595
00:35:18.550 --> 00:35:24.030
Governor Westmore got swag. I have interviewed him multiple times,
596
00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:26.730
and let me just say just the.
597
00:35:26.969 --> 00:35:27.150
the.
598
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.239
Generosity of spirit is alive and well.
599
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.360
There are a lot of public officials out there that
600
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.969
are very conservative about how much they support other public officials.
601
00:35:43.030 --> 00:35:43.469
He's not.
602
00:35:44.650 --> 00:35:48.610
He is actually quite generous and has been on the
603
00:35:48.650 --> 00:35:52.190
campaign trail supporting a number of folks. He made it
604
00:35:52.230 --> 00:35:55.050
his business to make sure that Keisha Lance Bottoms and
605
00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:58.389
David Crowley and Aaron Ford And I would also add
606
00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:03.269
Jermaine Johnson, who was unsuccessful in his bid for governor
607
00:36:03.349 -->
00:36:07.300
of South Carolina, but I'm hearing that we may see
608
00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:11.320
him emerge as a South Carolina Senate candidate in 2028. But,
609
00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.800
you know, Governor Moore has helped to lay the groundwork.
610
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:18.940
And I've got to ask you, Dr. Collins, with Governor
611
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:24.780
Moore saying that making history isn't the assignment, but for
612
00:36:24.949 --> 00:36:28.670
a 10-year-old in Milwaukee seeing a Black governor for the
613
00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:31.570
first time, isn't that part of the assignment? It may
614
00:36:31.610 --> 00:36:33.699
not be all of the assignment, but isn't that part
615
00:36:33.739 --> 00:36:33.949
of it?
616
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:35.639
Well, yeah.
617
00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:39.139
So I think, you know, Westmore is right in that
618
00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:42.579
the assignment is not to make history, but we can't,
619
00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:45.679
we have to appreciate when history is made, to your point,
620
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.559
because it changes the view of what's possible for the
621
00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:52.280
next generation, right? You know, and the thing that I've
622
00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:58.510
loved about Westmore's approach to this question of being well, still,
623
00:36:58.550 --> 00:37:02.489
I guess, until, you know, we actually see the swearing
624
00:37:02.570 --> 00:37:05.409
in of the new governors, him being the only black governor,
625
00:37:05.510 --> 00:37:09.010
his philosophy on this has been, it ain't no fun
626
00:37:09.110 --> 00:37:10.860
if the homies can't have enough, right?
627
00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:16.619
Like, he's wanted.
628
00:37:15.219 --> 00:37:20.780
More of us in these positions leading states as the executive.
629
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:25.679
And to see him not only have that sentiment but
630
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:29.659
then be at the forefront of congratulating and supporting a
631
00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.739
lot of the black, all of these black gubernatorials, a
632
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:34.480
lot of, because Byron Donald's.
633
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.030
Pin in that is a whole separate conversation.
634
00:37:39.550 --> 00:37:43.050
But to see Westmore wrapping arms around Keisha Lance Bottoms,
635
00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:47.289
supporting David Crowley, Aaron Ford, what we haven't been talking
636
00:37:47.349 --> 00:37:51.780
about too is even Stacey Plaskett in the Virgin Islands.
637
00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:56.269
I mean, this is, We haven't seen this level of
638
00:37:56.809 --> 00:38:00.369
Black political uplift since Reconstruction.
639
00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:00.929
That's right.
640
00:38:01.010 --> 00:38:02.389
Right after the Civil War.
641
00:38:03.690 --> 00:38:07.869
And for Westmore to really be the mouthpiece for it,
642
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:10.900
I couldn't pick a better.
643
00:38:12.219 --> 00:38:13.960
Person to be that. He's
just been phenomenal.
644
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:15.800
Yeah. And for so many people out there that think
645
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.090
that somehow, some way Black political power is on the decline.
646
00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:22.519
I mean, how many stories that we hear during the
647
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.199
last cycle of folks attempting to write the obituary on
648
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:29.820
Black political power in the United States, particularly in the South.
649
00:38:31.219 --> 00:38:34.639
And one week ago today, we took out our usher
650
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.539
fingers and we said, watch this, right?
651
00:38:37.110 --> 00:38:37.989
That's exactly what we did.
652
00:38:38.179 --> 00:38:42.010
When we come forward, five Black governors, including one Republican
653
00:38:42.150 --> 00:38:45.449
in Florida. What does Byron Donalds win? What does that
654
00:38:45.510 --> 00:38:51.860
tell us about Black political diversity, our final moments with Dr.
655
00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:52.679
Jonathan E.
656
00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:53.059
Collins.
657
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:55.000
You're listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show.
658
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:56.659
Alright, in our remaining minutes with Dr.
659
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:58.780
Jonathan E. Collins of Columbia University.
660
00:38:58.820 --> 00:38:59.079
Dr.
661
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:04.530
Collins, we're talking about Byron Donalds now. Give us your
662
00:39:04.590 --> 00:39:09.489
quick take. Five black governors, including one Republican in Florida.
663
00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:11.449
What does Byron Donalds win? What does it tell us
664
00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:15.059
about black political diversity in America?
665
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.349
It tells us that We are, on one hand, very diverse,
666
00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:25.170
but on the other hand, we do have to do
667
00:39:25.309 --> 00:39:26.429
some self-reflecting.
668
00:39:26.489 --> 00:39:29.570
Some of us have to do some self-reflecting. There's irony
669
00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:29.969
to the body.
670
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.800
Donald's election in that he is this Black conservative that
671
00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:40.349
is all about small government, weakening government, ending government programs.
672
00:39:40.829 --> 00:39:46.070
And yet, Byron Donald's life would not be possible without
673
00:39:46.429 --> 00:39:50.659
government programs. He was arrested as a teenager on marijuana
674
00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:54.550
charges and ended up never being convicted because of a
675
00:39:55.329 --> 00:40:00.710
pretrial program that essentially brought him in and prevented him
676
00:40:00.750 --> 00:40:02.289
essentially from going to trial and put him on a
677
00:40:02.329 --> 00:40:07.400
path to a behavioral recovery. He was also convicted of
678
00:40:07.659 --> 00:40:12.500
bank fraud and had his record sealed and expunged through
679
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:17.210
another program that did so for convicted felons. And so
680
00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:21.679
without these types of interventions that support Black folks who
681
00:40:21.699 --> 00:40:25.000
get caught up in the criminal justice system, Byron Donalds
682
00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:27.940
wouldn't be where he is today. But that same politician
683
00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:32.159
distances himself from the types of programs that made his
684
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.260
life possible. So I'm glad at the political diversity because
685
00:40:35.539 --> 00:40:37.340
it's good to show that Black people, we have different
686
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:41.719
views and different perspectives. But I'm concerned about a man
687
00:40:41.780 --> 00:40:45.940
who is not reflective of enough of how the policies
688
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.150
that he supports create the kind of harm that would
689
00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:51.219
have made his life totally different.
690
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.679
We'll have to leave it there.
691
00:40:52.699 --> 00:40:52.960
Dr.
692
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.159
Jonathan Collins of the Teachers College at Columbia University.
693
00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:58.760
Thank you, bro. Where can people go to follow you
694
00:40:58.880 --> 00:40:59.619
and follow your work?
695
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.800
Yeah. Professor Collins on the socials.
696
00:41:06.010 --> 00:41:06.199
Prof.
697
00:41:06.219 --> 00:41:07.630
John Collins on Twitter X.
698
00:41:08.690 --> 00:41:11.010
Look me up. Jonathan thinks if you're looking for my
699
00:41:11.030 --> 00:41:15.429
YouTube content. And of course, a more perfect union.
700
00:41:15.469 --> 00:41:16.469
That's right. That's right.
701
00:41:16.489 --> 00:41:16.929
That's right.
702
00:41:17.610 --> 00:41:19.750
We'd love to see it and love to see you
703
00:41:19.829 --> 00:41:23.030
at the top of the next hour. One Democrat told
704
00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:28.059
the Trump administration to lawyer up. TV judge and Yale-trained
705
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:31.780
attorney Tanya Acker is here to tell us whether that's
706
00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:35.969
a threat, a promise, or a press release. This is
707
00:41:35.989 --> 00:41:36.969
the Tavis Smiley Show.
708
00:41:37.010 --> 00:41:37.750
More when we come forward.