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you're listening to and explore your ability in production. I'd like to begin by knowiging the traditional owners and the custodians of the land on which this podcast is recorded on today, the eight clangs of the Yorda Yorda Nation. I also pay my respects to the elders, past and present. Hi, my name's Chris Stevens, todd, and you're listening to Out Loud exploring LGBTIQA plus topics and stories. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Out Loud and this time we're diving into part two of the episode Trials and Trials. In my same sex journey episode Last week, we touched on the process of selecting our sorry-its and going through multiple sorry-its before we found our one, visiting Nepal and working out that sorry-its and Nepal wasn't for us. We ended on talking about when we found out the sex of our child to be and that she was gonna be a girl. So let's now go into part two. We were waiting and it was a couple of months before she was born, before we had to head over to Canada. So it's all about getting the nursery ready, preparation and there's a part two because we've just watched the journey through conversations and photos online, sharing with each other, with us and our surrogate. There was an aspect where it didn't 100% feel real, because neither of us obviously were pregnant and we didn't have that constant reminder of us of seeing that visual either in the flesh that it's like, wow, this is actually happening. So there was a process of trying to get into that. This was really happening. Everyone gave advice and everyone's like we lived very busy lives beforehand and everyone's like you won't be able to do this once the baby's born. You won't be able to go and do this once the baby is born. That was probably the main thing that people said to us and we proved them wrong, which we'll talk about later on that we in fact could do what we were doing with the young child. So we started planning our trip over to Canada and the things that we would potentially need. We booked our flights and we were aiming to be over there, I think, for three to four weeks altogether, because we wanted to go a little bit before our due date to make sure that we didn't miss anything, spend some time with our surrogate and her family and just get to enjoy a little bit of Canada as well. We're being in Canada, obviously before, which we spoke about in part, one episode last week where we didn't speak about too much of Canada but spoke about how we went over and created the embryos. But we discovered that we really really loved Canada and we spent a lot of time in Toronto, our first trip, and Toronto it just felt like being in Melbourne, but in another kind of universe in a way. If Melbourne was like tapping into a multiverse, if Melbourne was a very different place, but it felt very similar and I guess that's part because Canada is a part of the Commonwealth until we, so there's probably some things in similarities, but it was hard knowing what kind of stuff we would need. When Fletcher was born and due, it was her G-day was March, like the start of March, so Canada was going through winter at the time and I hate Australian winter and in Shepparton our winter probably gets as low as sometimes minus one. That's the extreme and most days are probably about five to 10 degrees and for me that's cold. Canada's next level it's minus 15, snowing, and I was just like I don't know how I'm gonna cope, so I had to buy some extra things for that and but we managed and we got there. We flew over, it was around. I think it's over 18 hours, I reckon, from leaving Shepparton flying from Australia to LA LA I believe we actually had to go from LA to Chicago and Chicago to Toronto and, interesting enough, there was a famous person sitting in front of us who was the main actor out of the series 13 Reasons why. The whole flight I was like I'm sure that's him, I'm sure that's him and it was. So yeah, that's a fun fact. So, yeah, we eventually got to Toronto and we spent a night in Toronto before we made our way to Hamilton, where our sorrigate lived, and we stayed in a hotel that we stayed in last time, which was this beautiful hotel that overlooked kind of the. There's an area in Toronto that's got the words Toronto and then there in it's normally a little bit of a water area, but because it's winter, it's all asked over and people can ask you on top of it, and then I think it's the town city hall that's behind it and it was just a beautiful scenery area spot that I really wanted to stay in and it was kind of a it's a very flashy hotel because, well, all right, let's do this before they was born and enjoy ourselves. So we did that and then made our way to Hamilton by the bus and then we Googled our way from the bus stop and walked with our luggage all the way to our sorrigate's place and I remember, you know, going down the street and it just the houses are just so different there and then we found it and walked up and knocked and the anticipation and the nerves of meeting our sorrigate for the first time and getting to see that baby bump as well, you know, and it being a little bit more real. So we knocked on the door and then she answers and it was a very lovely moment to hug and say hello, nice to meet you. And then we went in and her husband was at work, so he wasn't home for a little while before that, but had some wines and waited. Obviously our sorrigate didn't have any wines, they had a. It was funny, they had a guest staying and he they did Airbnb as well and he was, you know, was staying upstairs. Normally they would Airbnb the basement where we were staying, but because we were there, they Airbnb'd one of the bedrooms upstairs and he came down and joined us for drinks. I don't remember what we had for dinner that night, but it was interesting because he was topless and was just in his pajama pants and it was kind of strange because we were like, why is he just like sitting at the table like
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this? And, yeah, it was very interesting night and then our sister's husband came back and we met him and it was a lovely moment to have all four of us together and it was kind of like he was that guy that was there because he was able to take a nice photo of us and it was the four of us all together and we called that moment. And then, you know, over the course of the few days that we were there, we enjoyed, you know, going around and getting a few extra things that we needed for the baby, that we just thought would be easy to get in Canada and then donate back to an up shop or a cause that could use these items for disadvantaged people, because we thought we're not going to take some of these bigger things back to Australia with us. We already have that and we were lucky because our surrogate son had just turned one as well, or was he just about to turn two? Yeah, he was just about to turn two because we did our transfer after he turned one and so, yeah, they had some items and all that still that they were able to lend us and give, and so we, yeah, explore around and we attended a few medical appointments, which was really nice to meet our midwife, and we met the midwife students, so they would be coming and delivering Fletcher and it would be the two of them. We opted to have a home birth, so that was going to be something different and unique as well, so there was no doctors involved in the process. We went to an appointment and our sorry, it had something called a Streptin Sweep and it's pretty much exactly what it sounds like and it can help bring on labour. So we had that and then we left and we went there for that part, and then we were actually out getting dinner and we went to a library and then our surrogate messaged us and was like, I think you should come back, I think I'm in labour. And we were like, oh, and luckily we were connected to Wi-Fi because we were at the local library. So we met our way back and started blowing up the little kiddie pool that we were going to be using because it was going to be a water. Wait, not only was it going to be a home birth, but it was going to be a water birth and our surrogate really wanted that. She had a home birth, water birth for her two kids, but unfortunately it had never actually given birth in the water because, you know it just didn't pan out that way and, you know, still had them at home, but just not within the water part. So they really wanted to have that part. So we blew that up and I'll put a photo on my Instagram socials for you to see the blow up pool. So if you go on to Out Loud podcast you'll be able to find it. The link will be on the other website. So we blew that up and waited and eventually the midwife and their kind of student came along and did all their checks and everything like that, and our surrogate's husband was there. Our surrogate's, his sister husband's sister was there. She was the doula. Over in Canada they have doulas as support people for through the pregnancy, so she was our surrogate's doula and his mum was there too to help look after the kids because they were sleeping in the beds upstairs. So it ended up being a very busy little area in our apartment down in the basement. So there was, I think, 10 of us all together and which I think was quite good because it did make the time go by a lot easier. We were in labour from probably like 7pm to around I think it was like 6.56 or so when Fletcher was born. So it went all night and the, you know it was just sitting waiting supporting us. So I got through process and it was interesting because people like it was interesting time because everyone in Australia was up like, and we were like should have been sleeping because it was, you know, the time difference. So it was kind of when, by the time Fletcher was born, which was, as I said, 6.56, everyone in Australia was just about to go to bed or had gone to bed. So we had sent everybody messages that she was born and you know we had a good 6, 7, 8 hours before anyone woke up to see their messages, with, you know, fletcher just being, you know, getting the A the rest, because Fletcher was sleeping a little bit at that, you know, over that time as well and we definitely needed some sleep. All of us needed some sleep after that time, being awake all night. So it was lovely time to. I was kind of glad that everyone in Australia was just going to sleep at that time because it gave us some really good moments of being together and just sharing that moment. So, yeah, fletcher, she and she was born in the pool under water. I was right behind our surrogate when she came out and Damien was right at front and it was an image and kind of thing that I would never get out of my mind, just this baby whooshing out underneath the water and then coming up. And there was a photo taken when Fletcher then came onto my chest and I think you can really see the kind of the water coming off Fletcher still and out of her mouth like there's this kind of blur, as it kind of runs. There's one of them photos on my Instagram page as well. And and then, you know, damien cut the umbilical cord and then we, you know, had some cuddles and and lady in bed was, you know, for skin to skin. Fletcher was fine, everything was good, she was breathing and and it was just that, oh my god, she's here, this little little baby, and and then we took her over and sorry, I had a cuddle with her as well and then everyone just left, like the midwives left. You know, our surrogate went upstairs to have us sleep and rest, and then it was just me and Damien with Fletcher was kind of like, oh my god, what do we do now? And then we had discussed uh sorry, it was gonna express, and we were gonna also use formula and kind of had some really kind of really thought progressiveness when it came to formula, like they have already liquid made formula in cans and little bottles. So we went to the supermarket. We had already gone to the supermarket. You know
David was buying his you know six pack of ciders and also like a six pack of liquid formula already made in these bottles and the person that put it through because in Canada you don't, the alcohol is just in the supermarket. You don't need to go into a separate little bottle way section like you do in Australia. So you just go over and grab your alcohol and then grab whatever else and you put it all through with your food. And yeah, I just remember the checkout person putting them two items through and having a bit of a joke. So yeah, so we, you know, then fed Fletcher but she, she was having a little bit of trouble drinking and and latching onto the bottle at first as well. So we were lucky the midwifes came every day to check on her and weigh her and things like that. And then we were put on a kind of a drinking cycle. But I had to drink I think it was every two hours, like 40 mil, and that wasn't like. It was like, say, it was one PM and so we would start and she took a long time to feed. So, finishing the feed it might have taken like an hour to feed. We would have to then feed again in an hour because it wasn't two hours. Then, from the last feed it was still two hours from one o'clock, so then we would then have to feed her at three o'clock. So we were setting all these alarms and you know, for right through the night because we'd have to wake up and then feed her. And then, you know, sometimes it took like an hour and a half and then we would just get back to sleep half hour and have to wake up and feed her again. And it was just making sure that she was getting enough food into her. And if she wasn't starting to put weight on, then we potentially would have had to go to hospital. But luckily she did start putting weight on and we went and had all her other appointments and the day actually the day she was born, because she was born at the start of the day, it was actually the hottest day in Canada on a winter. It was actually 15 degrees and people were outside in shorts. We didn't get to see the day at all, we were completely inside for the entire day. But then the next day that the snow fell again and it was beautiful actually, because I had never really seen snow before. So it was a lovely kind of trip to see the snow and go outside and honestly I was like a little child again, jumping in the snow and making prints and all that type of thing. Damien was just looking at me strange because he had seen the snow many times. But, you know, and we went to Toronto and it was just beautiful being in a city where the snow was just falling. Yeah, absolutely beautiful place. So the winter wasn't too bad in the end. Luckily, the snow, you know, made it even. It was cold. It made it, you know, much nicer kind of environment to be in compared to just the winter where it's just cold, there's nothing even pretty to look at. And it came the time where we were like All right, we have to now venture out, we have to go out, we can't just stay in the basement apartment the entire time. And so we got fletched already and headed outside for our first trip and we had a body carrier, because we didn't have public, we didn't have transport. We walked everywhere down to the local kind of shopping complex which was probably a 10, 15 minute walk and it was a place called Jackson Square. So we put her in the little carrier and then had me pick jacket on and wrap that around and which was a bit painful because you know it's absolutely freezing outside. But Canadian shopping centres are built to then basically not wear much inside them at all. So you get in, you take your gloves off, you take your jacket off, you take your beanie off and you take all the extra layers off which then, when you're carrying a human on your body as well, it wasn't really that easy to take a lot of them layers off and then carry them. So that was kind of like the only kind of thing with Canada is you had to like layer our peeps to be outside, but then once you got in, you had to take them off and then do your shopping, but you had to carry everything. So we ventured down to Jackson Square and carried her and we stopped and had coffee at first kind of real coffee in I think it was two days at Starbucks and it was so good. But it was strange because everyone kind of was looking at us and a few people came up and were like oh, I thought you are holding a doll, but it's a real baby. I'm like yeah, she's like two days old. And then like oh, wow, and congratulating us. But it was really funny the amount of looks that we got. You know, these two men drinking coffee with this little, young, very small baby just on our legs and knees. And yeah, there was a few people that thought she was a doll. But you know, I think that's even you know, and it's probably why we got a weird look, since like why are there two grown men holding a doll? But a lot of people came up and spoke to us and you know I sat back and David had fletcher and took her up while he ordered and he was there for a lot longer because there was so many women talking to him and stopping him. But yeah, then we went, you know, we did a number of appointments and once again, like we didn't have to pay for any of this stuff because it was all free, much like Australia. You know, the healthcare system over there is really really good. Yeah, we didn't have to pay for anything. We then lodged, went to Toronto for a day trip, we signed paperwork. So then I think if a week later a surrogate had to come to our lawyer's office with us and she had to sign paperwork that basically relinquishes any rights and care of Fletcher, even though Fletcher biologically wasn't hers, so we used another egg and our sperm. So biologically the embryo created had no connection to our surrogate. She was, you know, just carried. But because she gave birth to Fletcher at that point under Canadian law she had responsibilities and parental rights for Fletcher. So a week later they signed that paperwork up
and then we also lodged the paperwork for our passport. So Fletcher is a Canadian citizen by law and right. She's born in Canada but she's also half Canadian anyway because of the egg donor. The passport can take up to a week to process. The tedious part about getting a passport is the requirement for photos. Even babies need to have their eyes open when taking a photo for a passport. In Australia A baby's eyes can be closed when having a passport photo taken, but Canada is very strict around it. It's like eyes open. So we went through that, got the photos done and they weren't the greatest. But the guys like no, no, these will find these will pass, because you know I take these all the time. I'm like, okay, so we submitted all them and now, sorry, it's got to sign the back of the photos as well and all that type of thing to say, yep, this is this person. So we submitted all that and it was that appointment actually at the lawyer's office at Fletcher's in Billa Cookord actually fell off. It was kind of like this moment and they're like, oh, do you want to keep it? And I was like no, it's fine, we just choked them in the bin in their office and they were kind of like, oh, you don't want to keep it? Like no, but I kind of don't think I would get that through customs anyway out of the country. I'm not quite sure how I'd explain that one on the scanning machine. Yeah, eventually around and did things and went out and tried to be as normal as possible to a lot of family things, together with the two families and the extended family. It was really lovely to you know, obviously we didn't have our families here. So it was really lovely that our Zari gets family and the extended family really took us in and embraced us and made us feel super welcome through the whole process of us being there. And then it was time for us to say goodbye to them, because they had booked a holiday to Florida for a little kind of like have the baby, what's going on a holiday. So they went off and we stayed, you know, at their place until the end of our trip and our passport actually came back early. So we were then able to change, ring up and change our flights and we were booked to go home two and a half weeks after Fletcher was born. So we really did all that, took all that stuff, you know, we donated, you know, dropped stuff off and left stuff at you know, sorry, gets Place and then made our way to Toronto, which was about an hour from Hamilton, and then make our way to the airport and do all of our checks and everything can. Oh, we had to go pick up the passport first. You know we got a notification the passport's ready and we had to go pick it up and wait there and then we're waiting, waiting, waiting. Then we get called and they're like no, your passport can't be made, the photo's failed. Like what do you mean? The photo's failed. We went through this and the man like really showed us that they would pass and they will know they weren't good enough. You're gonna have to
redo them. Like oh, my god, like our flight's in a couple of hours home, because we reorganized it all because we were told our passport was ready. So we then get photos redone, which takes a good while, because trying to get you know, flesh and incorporate and have our eyes open was a task, but we finally got them. And then they're like well, you need someone to guarantee these. And we're like well, we can't, because we don't know anyone here, because we've been here for two and a half weeks and our sorry gets just flown to Florida. It was kind of interesting, like the customs person's like well, that's a bit irresponsible. I'm like well, no, because we actually signed all the stuff and it was all done, and so they had to then get on the phone to us or we get and talk to them and do sort of a check over the phone that we were who we were and Fletcher was who she is, kind of thing instead. And we got it through and we got our passport and we raced the airport and we missed our flight. I'm like, oh my god, and I'm tired, I'm just like complete wreck. And then they're like, well, we could move you onto this flight and rebook this. And then we go and the flight people like, well, no, that flight's already closed and they're boarding now. You can't get that. Like, well, why would they transfer us and book us onto that? So they're like, well, the best we can do is put you on a flight tomorrow. And it's like, oh my god, we don't have anything. So that you know, we weren't getting anywhere. And I had to go sit somewhere else because I was extremely angry at this point, and I think it was just because I was so tired, I just needed to sit away. Before I said and I think that you know, we'd, you know, not get us anywhere, because once you're in that state, you know yelling and shouting is not going to help any situation. So Damien dealt with it all when he came over. It's like, okay, well, we can fly home tomorrow, so we'll find a hotel for tonight. So he gets on his phone and he's booked a hotel. And then we then discovered that he actually booked the wrong hotel and the hotel he booked wasn't close to the airport, but it was like some distance away. And so we're like, all right, we'll get an Uber. So we get an Uber and we're driving and next minute he's this sound. He's like what is that? And like, oh, it's our daughter. And he's like, oh, you're meant to have car seats. Like I know, we know we don't have car seats because you know, we left them behind and we're meant to be flying home and and yeah, so we thought we'd try and smuggle her in at night because, you know, what else could we do? We couldn't walk to this hotel. So we get there, we check in and we kind of open my suitcase and, you know, just put Fudger down for a moment. I must have just passed out, and bad, because I was so tired. I wake up, I'm like, you know, feeling the bad. I'm like, oh, my God, where's Fudger? You know where is she. And Damien clickers, okay, she's asleep. I'm like where
have you put her? And he's like she's inside your suitcase. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's almost had my suitcase and I quickly get up and check in. He's opened my suitcase and he's part of the clothes to in a way to make a bed. And there she was fast asleep. I wish we got a photo of it. We didn't get a photo of that because, you know, we were just so tired and went back to sleep. And we got up the next day and checked out and we realized we were coming in the middle of nowhere, like I don't know if it was like an industrial area and it was a hotel to serve like people that would come and work in these places. I don't know, but there was nothing out there. So we had to walk a good distance and then we got to a bus stop and then we got on the bus and then that bus took us to some other area where we then we were meant to get off the bus and wait for ages. But the bus driver was like all right, well, I'm going to get off here, you can stay on. Normally we're not allowed to let anyone stay on the bus, but he we had spoken to him and he knew our circumstances, so he's like I'm going to let the other drivers know that he's around the bus. The next guy will come on. He's going to drive us to this spot, then get off here and then get onto this other bus and go and they'll take you to the airport. So it was like a huge journey and once again I just was not in the mood or the state to be going through this and we, you know, it was just crazy. So we get to the airport and we get on the plane, the fire attendant moved just to the very back of the plane and we end up having a whole road to ourselves, which was lovely. It gave us the extra space. So we, you know, I used my little neck pillow for Fletcher, to, you know, sleep on in the middle of us and during certain times of the fight she would have to sit on us and we would have to hold her. It was just nice at that space. And the actual, the captain, came up and spoke to us, you know, because he had had Fletcher was on the flight and he gave Fletcher like a little metal badge kind of thing because she was the youngest kind of passenger he had ever had on any of his flights. So that was a lovely. We did get some really nice treatment on the way home once we finally got on to the plane and flew all the way back to Australia from. Once again, it was Toronto, la, la to Melbourne and a very long flight. But we were very lucky if I just slept quite well and we just took on the liquid formula as well, so we didn't have to mix anything. It's just really easy to feed her. I just, you know, coming home I really wish bring some extras home, but once that ran out, I wish we, you know, australia had that type of formula. It was so easy. She adapted really well. When we then had to change formulas and you know, went through a few different ones just to not get accustomed to the one, because I know sometimes people can have a lot of trouble with that In Australia too there was, I think around that time there was shortages of formula, a lot of formulas being sent to China at that time because of the contamination and with Chinese formulas and the quality of Australian formulas. So you know, sometimes we just couldn't get the one that we were using, so we would have to then change to another one. So luckily Fletcher was used to it. But yeah, coming home was a lovely, lovely experience and, you know, going through that time to see your friends and family and finally, and you know, we missed my brother's wedding while we were in Canada. So we FaceTimed, you know, and watched the ceremony via FaceTime but, and you know, saw our family via FaceTime but it just wasn't the same. So it was lovely to see them in person and go through and most people let us settle in. We were planning, you know, our wedding at the same time. Our wedding was, you know, four weeks after Fletcher was born. So many of our extended family and friends saw Fletcher at the first time for our at our wedding. So it was lovely to come home and sort of go in you know that process and then registered Fletcher through the Australian kind of midwife system because obviously they didn't know we existed. And that was an interesting process to actually, because Fletcher was not technically an Australian citizen to start off with. She came into the country on a tourist visa and she had three months as she flew in using her Canadian passport, which you know. Once again, you know you're going through and you know if you're an Australian you go through these sections of the immigration and you know people are using international passports, go this way. So then we had to go the other way because Fletcher had a Canadian passport and there, you know it just took so much extra time to get actually through immigration. So then we lodged the paperwork for Fletcher to become an Australian citizen by dissent, because I'm an Australian citizen. So then that makes what you're an Australian citizen by default. So we processed all that paperwork and and that came and once again everything is just. You know about the money. You know they send you, you pay for it and then they send you the kind of paperwork to say, yep, you know, fletcher is an Australian citizen now and and they give you like a little certificate as well, but then in that it states, this is not the official certificate, for the official certificate that you then need to use for the legal documents you need to then fill out this form and pay this amount of money for it. You know everything's a money grab. We never did that. We just use the certificate they sent us for everything and it worked. So for us. It saved us money. I don't recommend people do that. But the people we dealt with at St Alenck and all the other places didn't know any difference. So it got processed and so we went that, you know. Then she got added to our Medicare card and she got by parental leave. That was a process, you know, dealing with St Alenck in Sheppard and where we
live, you know I'm sure we're the first sort of same sex family they've ever dealt with of two dads and you know, the lady just couldn't get it correct. She was having so much trouble. It took forever for my parental leave to come through, which I think was around 20 weeks of paid parental leave. At a certain rate it wasn't the you know what I was being paid for, my, you know, my employer. It was maybe about half of what I used to make that I used on my long service leave. And eventually, you know, I was back and forth trying to get that sorted and I eventually got through and they're like, oh, it's been rejected because it says your daughter lives in Canada. Like no, she's born in Canada, she lives with us, she was with us at the appointments. Like, oh my God. So that got through and then I was lucky enough that I was able to then get that sorted and you know, and I knew someone that worked in the system and they helped us and even that still was quite difficult. So you know, I struggled to think how it is for people with low literacy that are using center link that always having trouble with just. It's a system that is not designed to be helpful in any shape or form. So we got through all that and started getting paid, which was good. We had the midwife come out and visit us and that was an interesting experience too. I always, you know, they come and check your home and make sure it's safe, and that you know they check for just nursery to make sure I guess she's not sleeping on the floor and she has things and and. But you know, I always find the first visit the person's always so judgmental and just judgy, and you know we're doing things and she's like, oh no, I wouldn't do that. Like, well, that's what we were advised to do in Canada. So yeah, it was just, you know, just funny how that process worked. And then I got assigned to a parent group which technically was a mother's group, but once I joined it got like renamed and rehashed to a parent group because I was the only man there, and that was interesting. You know you're coming together with a group of women who have all had babies at a very similar time and other than that you have nothing else in common and getting to know each other and you go to these, you know, and there's a facilitator and you know, we would then do massages on the babies and we would then do other things and talk about stuff and and I would say, look, you know, I work in the health sector. Ish, you know, I've dealt with a lot of things. You know. There's nothing that you can say that you know I would find that would make me uncomfortable. It's completely fine, feel free to talk about whatever is need to talk about. And the women, the mums, they were absolutely lovely, we were a good group. And then, you know, then I think it was a certain amount of weeks that we did and we were all together with the facilitator, and then that finishes and we decided to keep that up. And then, you know, we would catch up for lunch and other kind of catch ups and and that went on until, you know, all the kids were about one and we all invited, you know each other, to the first birthdays. Most of us actually did, you know, some didn't and that was, you know, interesting. And then, yeah, we all branch off and, you know, go our separate ways as the kids get older and that's lovely. You know, we still follow some of them on Facebook. So it's nice to see the kids growing up that were born around the time that Fletcher was. And one of the things that we thought we really wanted to try and do, as well as parents now, was not change our lives completely, because we have a child that has Fletcher fit into our lives as best as she could. You know, obviously there were certain things that we couldn't do. You know you can't just go out and have drinks, you know into the night type of thing, but you know, anywhere where a child was allowed to go, where it wasn't a strictly, you know, adult only event, you know she came with us, like we went to some drag shows and she came. We went to the football, she came. Went to some music events, she came. You know she was in like this little carrier and she slept through like all these events and she had little earmuffs on to help protect her from, like this noise and all that type of thing. But you know, I kind of really feel, because we did that, you know she slept everywhere and even when we're at home and we would, you know, have normal sound, that she would go to sleep and people come over and whisper like, no, that's fine, you can. You know she sleeps through this. So we tried to really kind of normalise the areas and environments as much as possible for her to then just kind of go to sleep wherever we are. You know, because there was some people that just like, oh no, we have to be home at this time and they can only sleep in their bed and that's fine, like if that works for them. We just didn't really want that to be us. We wanted to, you know, still be able to go out and see people enjoy things and do all that and then be parents as well. So thankfully, you know, fletcher was a really good child, slept everywhere and adapted, and it wasn't until she then started sort of walking that you know we then had to modify and adjust things and until she was underage where she could listen and she would say, well, no, we can't do that. You know, we've got to see it still listen, watch and all that type of thing. But it was a really kind of thing, lovely thing to wear back home and shop in another places. Like so many people you know knew and watched and followed our journey, that Fletcher almost felt like, you know, she wasn't just our baby, she was like we'd joke that she was the people's baby because so many people knew who she was. And even now, you know, she's now six years old and and we'll be down straight and someone be like Fletcher and she's like, how do they know my name? And we're like, well, everyone knows who you are. So she doesn't
like that all the time, though Sometimes she finds it weird that people know who she is, that she doesn't know who they are. So, yeah, you know, perrin Hood, it was definitely a ride and a journey and but all of it a complete, complete positive. And we, you know, did not have one real bad experience, especially when she was younger, going through, you know, kinder and daycare and you know, even parent group, like there was no people that were like, ah, you know, dad's got you today, where's mom? Kind of stuff. I don't know if I just gave off a super gay vibe that I'm, you know, homosexual, that people just didn't then presume I was had a wife. That's kind of, you know, upset that maybe I didn't. But but yeah, you know, we, you know there was one actually real negative experience and and some, you know, our photo was in the paper. You know, when people are babies, they put your photo on the paper with the baby and then someone took that image and put it into this Facebook group where then post then said some really horrible things. The only good thing and then that came from that was the community and everyone. So many people we knew then came to that post and wrote so much nice, lovely joy and spread the love things that there was more positive comments on it than you know. Hateful comments, you know, really drown them out and but that was really the only negative kind of thing. And then from that, then a newspaper got a hold of it and asked us to write a piece and Damien wrote a piece around that and how, you know, that type of behavior can really affect people. And you know, our family is beautiful, our family is full of love. And then and then we'll be down the street and a lot of people would walk around and said let's stop it. So like we saw using the paper and we saw what you know had happened and we're so sorry about that. And you know you such look like a beautiful family, congratulations. And you know, even now to this day, you know people still, you know, stop this and and like, oh, now it's, when are you going to have another one? So yeah, you know our journey through it was very. It was a long one. It cost a lot of money Luckily didn't have to pay it all at once, but it was. You know. Every part of it was worth it. And we now have a lovely, beautiful, independent, strong child who we're raising and I think we raised her to be too independent and strong-willed with now the things that she comes back to us and you know we would ask her to do something and she'll come back with it. I think we need to negotiate. So she's definitely. You know you can't get anything by her, and so you know I recommend it a hundred times that if you're wanting to be a parent, to go for it and do it, because you know it brings so much joy to your life. But then you know our friends who are not interested in having kids at all and you know they like the fact that they can just do whatever the hell they want and that's that's both sides. You know that's some of my gay friends and some of my straight friends who don't have kids. They're like no, thank you. You know we enjoy our freedom and travel and all that type of thing. So you know it is in for everybody. So that's all that we have for this week and that's sort of the rest of our sorry to see journey. So thank you for listening and tune in to next week's episode. Goodbye.