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the south of Berlin from time to time, so that's another option that we have here. 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.640 But yeah, traffic is a different story in in India altogether. 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:14.800 And I mean, as I told, as I just told Dan, I mean, my problem is I can't eat spicy food uh because I get the hiccups and it's very funny for everybody except for me. 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:25.039 So uh when I lived in 2000 in India, a long, long time ago, it was just like, yeah, I don't know, I don't want it spicy, and I can like uh can you make it not spicy? 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:28.400 Yeah, this is for children, and they're like, I I almost died most of the time. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:31.120 Like, and it's just like, yeah, this is not spicy at all. 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:32.879 And they're like, okay, what's spicy then? 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:35.520 It's just like, wow, does it catch fire on its own? 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:37.199 Or what's going on there? 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:39.599 It was an interesting, it was an interesting time. 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:48.400 Also back then when it's like, oh, we got the we got the menu in English as well, and then it was like something Indian with something Indian and something Indian. 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.719 So the only English bits were and and with. 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.520 And I'm like, okay, that's that's helpful as well. 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:58.800 But uh uh the more you get into Indian food, the more you can actually read the stuff and understand it as well. 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.159 And we got a takeaway here around the corner, which is just gorgeous. 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:12.000 It's like one of the best Indian food I've had outside of England and outside of India, and uh didn't expect it to be in the middle of Berlin where nobody else has like ethnic food in that area here. 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:13.360 So that was pretty good. 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:21.520 I think if you throw a stone at any part of the world, you'll it will probably hit some Indian in in the in the remotest part of the world. 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:26.639 So yeah, and there will be an Indian diner somewhere serving good food, hopefully. 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:28.960 So yeah, that that that's the thing that I figured out. 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.360 Like even in the countries that people don't go to use. 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:39.120 Usually I see okay, there is a restaurant that sounds familiar, and I go in, I see, okay, this is owned by like some some Indian family. 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:43.199 So yeah, that's that we are all we are everywhere. 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:53.039 I think in Mount in Mountain View, when I worked for Microsoft um for Mozilla, there was a place that had the Indian suites, you know, that silver plated ones that have like a silver layer on top. 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.759 Uh and it was just yeah, it was so good. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:01.840 Like my team loved me for finding

it because they were living there, Indian people that lived in Mountain View and never found that shop. 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.479 And I just randomly walked by it, and I'm like, okay, let's buy like a kilogram of that and bring it to the office. 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.719 And yeah, that was a good first day. 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.280 Yeah, I love the I love that suite. 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:12.879 It's it's really nice. 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:14.240 Cool. 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:22.959 So I will try to find my uh re my resources that we want to quickly cover, and then we go into your main topic, which is like side projects and these kind of things. 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:27.199 Uh, first of all, I mean, how did you uh uh Dan got you into the show? 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:28.160 Like, how did you meet? 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:33.360 You you met in San Jose at the event, or did you try did you chat there, or how was that going on? 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:34.879 We met on Twitter. 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:54.160 I think, yeah, that's that's an interesting discussion that we can have, like because it's kind of related to side projects and being online and then making friends, and then I I think Daniel and I we were connected for minim a minimum of three to four years, or even more than that, and then we finally met in person this year, so yeah, like that that's how I feel. 00:04:54.319 --> 00:05:00.800 We build um networks, we build friends, and then we finally meet them in person in some part of the world. 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:10.800 I love that we are also seeing saying Twitter still, like nobody actually actually I mean, yeah, that was I mean that that to me was the thing. 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:19.759 Like Twitter was the social thing, Twitter was beautiful, like the Twitter offices in San Francisco were wonderful, like free food, they had dogs, and everything with dogs is good. 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.000 And it was just like really, really amazing. 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:28.399 And then X became so clinical and so optimized and so planning to me. 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:42.160 Like, X is more a channel where people have to like optimize their uh participation, whereas on Twitter you had just random stuff and people just did wonderful little weird things. 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:44.800 And yeah, I I miss those times. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:46.160 Do you too? 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.040 What do you think, Hymantica? 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:51.360 Yes, yes, yes. 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.040 I mean, I was just thinking then it just feels like a different time, doesn't it? 00:05:55.120 --> 00:06:05.040 Like it feels like when you're saying then we were connected for sort of three or four years, and um I think Chris, you're right in that the the the the tone on X did change quite a lot, it became very kind of hustle culture. 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:32.240 Um, but I think that's partly why I thought Homantica would be great for today's episode, because uh yours hasn't ever changed in that you've always had this tone of um you're led by like something you're curious about, or it seems to me like maybe you find a technology or you find something that you go, oh that's cool, and then you brainstorm what you could could do with it, is how it sort of feels because is that is that sort of the approach you take of kind of starting with the tech, or do you start with an idea and then find the tech to kind of play with? 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:43.360 So like previously when there was no way, I used to start with the tech and I used to build something, but right now because it's easier to build and you know turn our ideas into something that I can see in real life. 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:49.519 So now I start with an idea and I see okay, and while building it, I figured out there's this new thing that I can try out. 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:54.800 So uh the approach has changed a bit, but my tone on social media has almost remained the same. 00:06:54.879 --> 00:07:00.240 I'm like, okay, I am a tech person, but I'm also this, these many things that I do on the side. 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:03.199 Like I love food, I also have my own rants and lores. 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:12.079 So that's what I keep doing on social media because yeah, we are all people running the accounts, and I feel that we should all have all our exact personalities out there. 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:20.639 I miss whimsy as well, like like people building random bots, and basically then people stopped allowing bots on X. 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:29.680 And like I remember that there was this uh uh big Ben bot that basically just said like bong every single, every every hour, like bong, bong, bong, bong, bong. 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:32.079 How many times the the big band was was doing? 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:38.800 Friend of mine built one when the when the bridge was up in London and when it was down, like basically there was a bot where you could look that one up. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:48.720 I loved the mashup one that was Kirk Kardashian, that was basically uh uh one of the Kardashians and Kierkegaard quotes, and you actually they they put those together. 00:07:48.959 --> 00:08:01.839 And yeah, that kind of whimsy is something that I kind of miss, and uh uh everything has to become like a really cool project immediately, and then like get thousands of GitHub stars, and yeah, just uh it's really tiring, but yeah. 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:02.480 Cool. 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:06.879 Let's talk about some bits that happened this week uh or or earlier. 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:14.639 Um Apple is introducing something that confuses the hell out of me, uh, which is like adaptive dark mode. 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:29.519 That basically in WebKit in Safari, even if your website doesn't have a dark mode and the operating system is set to dark mode, then it basically uh it will do something to it to actually make it look differently.

00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.399 And I think that's a great accessibility feature. 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:38.320 Uh, I think that's interesting, but um it makes it more complex again to me. 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:48.000 So I find this uh uh when when you do like to the CSS media queries and you check for light and dark, uh it has been so changing so many times. 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:55.279 I realized that when I just redesigned some of my stuff, like the checks that I put in there from like five years ago don't work anymore. 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:59.519 And uh uh in in Firefox it's completely different again. 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:27.679 But uh I don't like when browsers do magical things for us, and I think Apple has this history of uh making accessibility uh uh decisions for us, like when you had unstyled lists, and it basically said, like, okay, uh screen readers on Safari won't actually say that this is an list if it's actually has no list uh uh marker, because we asked a few people and they were announced that people use too many lists. 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:39.039 And I was just like, this is weird because uh I don't want to worry about browsers too much anymore, but maybe I'm just too close to the subject matter and nobody cares actually. 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.240 I don't know what were your thoughts when you looked at this, Amantiko? 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:48.960 Because I I sort of thought a bit like Chris, but I'm just curious before I say anything about it as to what what what you thought because it's good and bad, right? 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:51.519 I I have a very controversial opinion. 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:59.360 Like the first time I saw this, and like it's it's going to probably hurt a lot of people, but I'm like, who who uses Safari on their laptops? 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:02.080 Like I use Safari to only download Chrome. 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:26.639 So for me, I was like, okay, yeah, I I I was like, oh, the like yeah, it does matter, but I was like, if you if I for to Chris's point, I think I agree that it's especially for these kind of settings, like let's say that there are certain apps for which I use light mode, there are certain apps for which I use dark mode, and my operating system might be in dark mode, but there are certain apps where I prefer to see in light mode. 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:39.120 So accessibility-wise, I feel that the choice should lie on the user, but then my first point still remains the same that me, and then like I don't so many of my friends we just use suffering to download Chrome. 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:47.440 So, yeah, that's that's the first thing that my mind went into before I could think about the accessibility part and the user part of things. 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:49.360 But what about your iPhone? 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.120 Or do you use Android? 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:54.240 I use iPhone and I use Chrome here. 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:56.320 Okay, I use Chrome there as well. 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:56.799 Okay. 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:57.759 Yeah, okay. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.759 I use Edge on my iPhone, so on my desktop, so yeah. 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:02.720 Wow. 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:06.399 Well, I got eight years of eight years of information in it. 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.159 I I started Edge back then when I when I wasn't at Microsoft. 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:14.639 So yeah, basically that's much like you still use Arc, although it's a piece of crap. 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:17.840 Uh I haven't even got eight years. 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:23.600 I've got about 30 bookmarks that I'm just too too too lazy to export and just import into a different browser, you know. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:26.639 It feels like, oh, I just like it as it is, even though it's broken. 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.559 It's kind of like an old car that I love, even though it is really knackered, you know. 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:38.720 I think it's going to be really funny if you can do a poll and ask how many people use a Safari because of the three people who are here, none of us are using Safari. 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:44.639 So it would be nice to see how many people are actually using it, what percentage of people uses it and cares about it. 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:46.159 Well, we're also tech folk. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.559 I think that people that just buy a laptop and basically don't know what a browser is. 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:57.279 And uh both operating systems or all operating systems have been devaluing the browser over the years. 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:01.600 Basically, it's something like it's it's not like something that is special that you have to set up. 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:14.559 The only people who realize that there's a choice is in Europe when you install any of the operating systems here, it has to tell you that there's more than browser that comes with the operating system because of uh non-competitive uh uh laws. 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:28.720 And uh other than that, normally people uh when I worked on on on Edge before that with Internet Explorer, uh a lot of people just basically use what comes with the operating system and don't even know there is a choice or don't even care that there is a choice. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:34.000 And I don't think that people choose a browser because of its features, but because of its services. 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:38.000 So Chrome became successful because of Google Maps and Gmail. 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:44.080 Uh, because if you use both of those, then it basically told you, hey, it's better in Chrome, use that one as well. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:52.240 Uh, the weirdest thing that we had in the internet uh in Firefox was that the biggest Firefox download numbers came from the Adobe installer. 00:12:52.480 --> 00:13:01.279 Like the Adobe uh did the Adobe Reader installer basically said Firefox renders PDF natively, so you don't even need to download it if you want to

use Firefox. 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:07.279 So that was the that was an interesting uh uh um uh uh partnership to basically say so. 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:17.600 Adobe was actually there to support Firefox a lot more than anybody else, just because people didn't want to install PDF reader, which is good that we don't need to anymore. 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:27.600 I mean, this is was always the most annoying uh updater because the Adobe updater came with the just when you wanted to read some PDFs and it updated every two days, and you're like, oh god, no. 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:30.960 Yeah, I think it's a future browsers. 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.919 Yeah, so sorry to cut you off, but I'll just end it here. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:47.600 I'm saying that I think the future of browsers is going to change a lot because we are like for me, I don't leave my ID at all, and it's my agents on the ID doing the stuff for me, reading all the stuff for me, and I don't go to browsers anymore as much. 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:52.399 And even on my phone, I use my AI apps on IMSS to do the stuff for me. 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.679 So yeah, I think it would be interesting to see the future of browsers. 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.639 It will stay, but how and how how will it change? 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.320 That's something interesting to watch out. 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:01.840 Yeah, for sure. 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:18.639 And I mean, most companies also I mean, the other problem is that a browser is always a lost leader, like it takes a lot of effort to build a browser to maintain it and actually to make keep it secure and keep it safe, but you don't make money with a browser, nobody buys a browser, and you basically make money with the services around it. 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.000 And if those services go down, then you actually have a problem. 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:32.000 And Google now has that issue that basically they uh they realize that the uh AI overviews that they're using is eating into their own ad display uh uh money. 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:38.960 So they they're now showing ads in the AI overviews soon, which is like, yeah, we're back to square one, aren't we? 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:49.120 Yeah, this is what I'm wondering though, is is that just a mat is that just a matter of time then until it just becomes like a uh this response is brought to you by, and then it's kind of you know saying that this product is the best one. 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:55.279 Like is that just a matter of time then that actually the responses we get get completely boiled down to just sponsored messages? 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:56.960 Well, I mean, that depends. 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.240 I mean, if you think that capitalism is the way to go, then yeah. 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.480 And and we can get really pretty deep with this, couldn't we? 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:04.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.240 It's it's just an interesting thing because you kind of go, well, what's the what's the end goal then? 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.519 Or what's the end, you know, and then where where is the innovation? 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.519 Where's the innovation if that's always the last resort to make money again? 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.440 That's the that's what what I'm asking. 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:20.639 Uh, but yeah, uh that's a mental thing. 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:27.120 Uh Discord is also an interesting made a bit of headlines by allowing that public server messages will be now by Google Search. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:44.240 And that was always the idea that you take a Discord channel to have your own community and you build it, and uh and now it's actually becoming the same thing that it's got to get indexed by others, and like uh and I wonder how many like people that said, like, I want to have my own community and not the open web uh will be miffed by that. 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.320 Um, I'm not surprised by it. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.960 I mean, um you work in DevEx as well. 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:53.279 Uh Hamatika, um what's your take on Discord? 00:15:53.679 --> 00:16:00.799 I mean, I I think everybody has this as the first go-to when they want to build a community channel, but I'm confused about it. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:12.559 I think it feels like uh it feels like nobody ever has done a UI review of a user test on it because it's just feature on feature on feature on feature rather than just like here's your guiding messages. 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.399 Yeah, I 100% agree. 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:28.000 But at this, there are so many problems with Discord, but I like even we we started a community with Discord, and even now we are active on Discord because I feel that's like lack for the lack of alternatives, that's where we are. 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:31.840 And the moment we find something better, maybe we'll just move there. 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:48.399 But one thing that I like about this news, like especially even I um like a few years back when we I started in Devril, a lot of our support messages used to come on Discord, and then we wanted to make that searchable so that people can search it somewhere, and then we were trying to find ways for it. 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:54.399 So I feel some of that, like at least for the support queries, but then this was a problem pre-AI era. 00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:03.919 So, like right now, we have talks and everything that's all uh like you know, searched by our agents, and they can answer questions way faster than until analysis very critical problem. 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.759 That's where a human has to be in the loop. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:13.039 So if this had existed maybe a few years back, it would have been interesting, especially for a support um point of view. 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.000 But for now, I'm still yeah, I don't know. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:22.640 Like I I always have mixed reviews about Discord, and

then yeah, I wouldn't want all of my messages to be on Google. 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.519 Some of the things we are just bantering on the community, hanging out with the community, and that shouldn't be there. 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:34.480 It's interesting as well when these things get indexed and gets then uh given you back as search results, and then you can't access them. 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.000 That's the really annoying thing about it. 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:47.759 I hated that with image search and Pinterest, that basically image search was full of Pinterest results, and you didn't couldn't click on it if you didn't sign up, if you hadn't signed up for Pinterest yourself, then basically you couldn't see the result. 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.319 And uh it's basically a bait switch to me. 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:51.839 Same with like Reddit right now. 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:59.920 When I use a VPN, I'm actually uh blocked out of Reddit every single time uh because it actually says like I'm a bot and I'm actually trying to scrape it. 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.039 So uh every Reddit result in Google or in Dr. 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:10.160 Go, but I'm using it as my search engine now, is actually impossible for me to use, so I might as well just filter them out, but I can't. 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.440 So that's always the thing. 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:18.720 Like if you make it indexable, you also have to make it accessible, and that's not the idea of getting Discord things in there. 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:27.279 The other bit that Discord did was ditched Electron and actually uh uses a lot less RAM because of it, and that's not a surprising thing. 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:34.079 I remember when Electron came out, it was just such a massive thing because it basically shipped the browser with your app. 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:42.799 So if you had a crappy uh browser on your operating system, uh you as the app developer, you didn't have to worry about because you could use the Chromium engine. 00:18:42.880 --> 00:19:01.279 And of course, as every as it always shipped the engine, the the bigger problem was maintenance and also security because it was an older version of Chromium, and every time Google released their new their new notes about the security ducks that they fixed in Chrome, it meant that is actually a blueprint how to attack electron apps. 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.880 So uh it was it was interesting to see it that way. 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:13.039 But now with Tori and other systems, we realize it's actually not necessary to have like a whole DOM rendering engine and use TypeScript for everything in there. 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:17.440 But it's it's interesting that they're one of the last stalwords to actually do that as well. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.440 I don't know actually who's still using it out of the box. 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.359 I think Slack went away as well. 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.160 But uh yeah, it was

an interesting concept. 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:35.200 But uh inside Microsoft back then, and uh Montika remembered that as well, we're not allowed to use any uh um electron app because of the security problem. 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:37.839 It's interesting. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:39.440 There's good videos in there, actually. 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:40.559 Uh on that in that article. 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:49.519 There's some good videos of just the uh I think it's the CEO of of Discord, but just these nice side-by-sides kind of showing like here's the here's how fast the app was before and here's how fast it is now. 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:56.240 And I think it was a good example of one of those things that you can actually get used to kind of the speed of an app, think, you know, and it just feels like that's normal. 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:04.079 And it's only when you see kind of how it should be, when you see the very fast version on the right hand side, that you suddenly think, uh how how did I put up with that? 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:06.160 Um, you know, if you're a user of the first one. 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:17.279 Because I think also we said about the UI of Discord, and I think it's funny how we probably all thought the same thing, like when we brought up Discord about the UI being so kind of I don't know, it feels like an inception to me. 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:22.880 It's like I'm in a server and now I'm in another sort of uh you know slide out window inside of another one, inside of another one. 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:32.640 And um, and actually it did always feel when I opened it that I did see the Discord logo when it said on there that you would people would see it for quite a while, and it always sort of felt that way for me. 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.920 Um, same with they say in the X article about being stuck on that kind of logo loading screen, you know. 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.119 Um yeah, yeah, I think you you can just get used to it though. 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:45.200 So it's it's great to see these updates because people will actually really feel them. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:47.599 Definitely. 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.039 This was interesting. 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:56.400 I didn't know what expo was, but I just thought it was cute to have like because originally we wanted to talk about uh uh desktop pets and stuff. 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:11.519 There's a that game called Percour, which was basically built in like a few days and um yeah, in three days, and the AI agent was the QA team, and that's something I mean you're you're you're knee deep into the whole AI world. 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:22.559 I mean, I'm worried about QA uh uh AI agents because uh I've had the biggest respect for QA people ever. 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:34.960 I mean, that the people that know how to break things, they actually have to know about the technologies that they do, but they don't they back then when when it was still a prestigious thing

to be a developer, but they never got the glamour of being the developer. 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:38.960 They just had the glamour of being the person that that poked the things. 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.680 Um how do you see it? 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:52.640 Like, do you see QA being an AI agent thing, or is this still one of the last things where humans should be doing the uh irresponsible things and the random things that humans do? 00:21:55.039 --> 00:22:05.519 I personally am team human, especially for agents, and with all the Security thing that's happening in the last few months and in almost every week that we are seeing these days. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:17.680 I feel that there should be a human that's taking care of the edge cases and you know, like everything that could go wrong, the things that I feel AI still has a long way to go, especially for QA. 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:31.519 And like with the all the startups that's coming up, I I can probably count a few that's uh doing testing really well, or like I see I see some names pop up, but then I do not see anybody using them really on production. 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:39.759 So yeah, I feel that this is something that humans definitely should be in loop or be the main person and have agents in loop, then either way around. 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.039 So yeah, that that's my take. 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.279 Like human humans first, at least for QA. 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:46.559 I wonder if we can actually avoid it even because I I think it's funny. 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:56.960 I was I was yesterday just um sort of editing some shorts from one of the World Congress talks, and there was a really interesting bit that I started watching, and it was kind of on this note where they were talking about how they there was a study done. 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:09.279 I believe the um organization was called uh Meta, M-E-T-R, and they uh did a study where they uh got a load of engineers that I believe were kind of um uh well-known maintainers of kind of well-used projects. 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:27.119 So they were taking people that they knew had a lot of experience, particularly with open source, particularly with uh, you know, um QA or code quality, and they uh they basically got them to review um a large number of agent pull requests that had all passed out of all of the tests given to them and to kind of manually go through them and decide if they would pass or not. 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:34.000 And there was a very large number, I don't know the percentage off the top of my head, if you look at the We Are Developers YouTube channel today, you'll see that YouTube short. 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:45.039 But uh it it was the idea that you know all these false positives that there was it was just a sea of false positives that the agents had said were fine, that the the the humans you know actually could could see there were major issues with. 00:23:45.279 --> 00:24:01.440 And I think uh I wonder if we'll ever get beyond that point, really, where as soon as something reaches a level of complexity, it's like, well, con context is everything and knowing the full context of what you're looking at, um it's not as simple, I think, as just passing the context to an agent, you know. 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:13.359 I feel that it's actually having that real world understanding of how users use a feature or something that will that will really guide you in making decisions that I don't know if agents would ever really be able to like empathize with and get inside of our heads. 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:18.319 Um I don't know, maybe maybe that's just me hoping and pulling for team people like you are, um, Hollantiker. 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:25.519 But um I just want I just wonder with with studies like that showing that we're still getting so many false positives, will we ever really get beyond that point? 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.599 Or is that maybe where we want to stay, where the human has to be in the loop? 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:45.200 We also have to uh I mean we also have to do things like take a different model to do the QA than the model that wrote the code, because otherwise you get like lots of false positives, and you have like several QA agents to actually uh uh uh verify each other and these kind of things. 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:51.279 So it gets expensive again that that kind of like uh saver, saving that you do is not as much. 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:53.200 And I mean, I'm I'm not sure. 00:24:53.359 --> 00:25:06.799 But I still the other question, the other thing that was interesting to see was like the the on X, they said like they rebuild the whole X app from scratch with like five engineers working with AI coding in under six months. 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.519 I'm not impressed by that number. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:30.319 I mean, it's I I mean when when when when X when Twitter got taken over by X, they said like they had 3,000 people working on the on X, and I'm like, it didn't do that much, it was just like a microblogging platform to a degree, and uh now it actually does calls as well, now it does like chats, so I think that's a that's a big feature. 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:35.039 So it kind of like X is like the new Skype kind of thing, what it what it does. 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:40.720 Uh but it's still it's like I mean six months with like five engineers. 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:49.359 Maybe we're just in a in a world where things are so fast that we think it's it it this is a thing, but I'm I'm I'm not that amazed by that. 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.160 But I I find it interesting that it built rebuild it from scratch. 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:57.759 That's a good thing because yeah, taking that old code alongside would not been fun. 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:00.720 So at least we can do it now. 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:01.519 Do you know what I mean? 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:11.680 I I think even just uh there were how many

teams would just sit on this because it would be such a uh mammoth task that it would be overwhelming, and actually, at least now it's it's possible, even with the potential issues. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:21.359 Well, I mean, it's also a matter of like how uh how self-assured you are as a company that you can actually take away things from users like uh and basically change the whole interface. 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:33.119 I mean, Apple has never been had qualms about that either, like, oh Cody, let's make the scrolling the other way around now because people have touch screens, and then and by the way, we're not putting touch screens on the laptop, so the scrolling is not making any sense to you. 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.559 But hey, what are you gonna do? 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.000 Complain about it and buy something else? 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:37.359 No, you're not gonna do it. 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.160 So um that's uh that's an interesting one. 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:45.119 That basically that's throwing the throwing the baby out with the bathwater is a normal thing for companies like that. 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:45.920 Why not? 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:47.920 Let's talk about some geek things. 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:50.960 Um, you bug like that, uh, Haman Tika. 00:26:51.200 --> 00:27:00.799 This is a really interesting skill because um if you use Chrome in your uh in your uh in your agent, never use the full Chrome. 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:08.400 This is actually uh a skill that uses the DevTools uh features of Chromium that are actually used to build Chromium itself. 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:28.880 So basically, uh it's a super inceptive thing with Chromium that basically the developer tools are actually used to build Chromium itself, and this one uses the the uh that layer and the accessibility layer to do the rendering and just get the results back to you rather than the full user interface that actually is much slower and much more memory intensive. 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:36.720 So if you have an agent and you want to do things with Chromium, uh that DevTool skill is really interesting to make the dev tools much faster. 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:39.039 This is nice. 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:41.279 Alexa skills, there's they're useful to me. 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:42.640 Most skills. 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:44.000 It's weird, isn't it? 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:47.039 Because the first one that came up with skills, remember what that one was? 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:48.799 Alexa. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.000 Oh, yes, exactly. 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:53.519 Oh wow, yeah. 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.319 I never had an Alexa. 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:01.440 I never I never thought the idea of having a microphone in my house that recalls everything is a good thing. 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:10.000 Uh, but uh it was just that was the first company that that called it skills, and you're like, okay, now we actually everybody has skills. 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.039 It it's funny because like I I feel that I still I still like Alexa. 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:17.759 I have one, but we don't use that anymore. 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.000 But I feel that they were ahead of the time. 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:23.599 They were trying to do some good stuff, but it never really landed as much. 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.440 But that yeah, probably they were ahead of the time and they'll have a comeback sometime. 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:35.839 The local pop has an Alexa that's connected to their skill to their YouTube music, and uh they they didn't shut it down. 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:40.400 So every time I go in there, I I call for the most outrageous song to start with. 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:41.920 So that's actually quite fun. 00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:45.680 I well and truly took the uh took it into my life, you know. 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:50.960 I well and truly invited a microphone into my house because I've got multiple of them and I know it's a terrible idea. 00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:56.319 And I even said to you yesterday, Chris, you know, I'd gone to a friend's house and I'd uh spoken to their Alexa and it said, Hi Dan. 00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:04.960 And um, I can I can only think that in the past this person was on my Amazon account, you know, like share uh shared as a uh a named person or something like that. 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:11.920 And that was creepy because it was uh for a second I was you know trying to think on a technical level, how does it know my name? 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:12.960 Like how could it possibly? 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:17.599 And I and I even started thinking, has it extrapolated who I am from this person's life? 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:25.680 Like, you know, does it is it like figuring out well, this must be done because it was it was creepy, but it's still not gonna make me get rid of my Alexa. 00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.000 Well, sometimes you've got magical things that just feel weird. 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.880 I I have this the other day, uh the last two days. 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.240 I actually connect my laptop and I've got a Mac mini. 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:56.079 And when you have one Mac and another Mac that both are that you're both locked in as a user and you're on the same wireless, you actually can move your uh your uh just by being close to it, you can move your uh your uh mouse to the other screen and use the other computer through my trackpad and my keyboard on my laptop. 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:02.799 I mean that used to be like a thing where you had to install extra software for, and uh Linux was the first one to do that. 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:13.359 And then and this is just a magical thing that Apple does that I didn't even realize existed, and I was just like moving my uh moving my mouse, and out of a sudden it was on the other screen, and I'm like, yeah, that's normal. 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.839 Wait, that screen is connected to my other

computer. 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:26.160 Like, so you you have that kind of like talking to each other, and that's basically every time you have two machines that you open and it says like Edge or Chrome wants to connect to another device. 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:27.839 I was like, what is that? 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:28.640 And that is that. 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:30.000 So interesting. 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.039 Now on Monday, uh yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.920 Sorry, Chris, go ahead. 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:35.359 Go on, go on, go on. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:40.240 I I was talking since we were on the topic of uh you know Apple products and them doing some magic. 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:45.519 So I recently saw a reel on Instagram where a person used their AirPods as a mouse. 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:55.039 I don't know how they did that, but then basically they were using their airpods and they were moving it around the screen, and then they probably have some code or something on how they built it, but it it's crazy. 00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:00.160 Like I would never expect something that I hear music on to actually do that on my laptop. 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.440 So sometimes I of course they found a hack to do that. 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:08.240 So sometimes Apple can really do magic that we would never expect it to do. 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:19.359 Did you see the thing where somebody put a uh uh a magnet around the iPhone and you can do uh uh website elements that actually get tor get drawn towards the magnet? 00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:23.920 Oh wow, no, can it can recognize magnetic fields around it in the new version? 00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:25.359 And there was just like a feature. 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:29.599 I don't know what you would use that for, but uh it was interesting to see. 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:30.960 It's amazing though. 00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.960 Don't you love the kind of like reusing something? 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.680 Like people using, I don't know, like there'll be a gyroscope in uh, you know, they'll find out something like that. 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.359 Like, oh, there's a gyroscope in the iPhone, that means now we can use it as whatever. 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:49.839 Um, because I've always been interested by you know, some of those app store apps that you see that are like utility ones, like um, I was putting up a shelf and I couldn't find a spirit level. 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:53.759 So I downloaded an app and I'm then going, well, is this just a digital display? 00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:55.599 Do I actually trust this as a spirit level? 00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:16.000 How does it actually know that it's so you start you know searching in into the sort of technicalities of it, and it is like using the gyroscope or whatever on the back of it, and you think this is really clever that somebody's found a specific kind of feature in there or a piece of hardware or whatever, and then they've gone,

oh, that opens the door to this, and the bonkers ideas end up like the AirPods as a mouse. 00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:16.799 It's amazing. 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:19.039 Well, Firefox does that. 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:24.480 Uh uh uh when you when you open a website and you shake the phone, it actually gives you an AI summary of it. 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:32.160 Oh, you know what the gyroscope was used for first? 00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:34.000 No. 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:41.359 Shut down the hard drive when the laptop was falling to make sure it actually doesn't get read-write errors. 00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:52.079 So that was the the that was the first time we had uh we had gyroscope on on devices because because if the laptop would fall, it basically shut down the hard drive before it had an impact. 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:57.119 And uh uh that way it basically made sure that it didn't work, uh that it didn't get crashed. 00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:10.880 Now on Monday, uh uh uh after this, uh there's gonna be half stack in uh at the half-stack conference in Vienna that Dan is going to, which is always a conference which is just so bonkers because people do the most random things. 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:18.400 I've seen like a racing game written in CSS, I've seen like people do like uh is it cake with AI or not? 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:28.640 And uh and this article I found very fascinating that you can generate a string without parenthesis in JavaScript just by using this very readable simple thing. 00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:37.680 And that basically shows me that if you're a security person and you actually want to worry about filtering JavaScript, you're screwed. 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:38.559 There's just no way. 00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:44.880 JavaScript has so many wonderful things in the parser that you can find random things and you can generate a string from that. 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:49.200 If you can generate a string, you can generate an alert, you can generate an XSS feature. 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.720 And it's yeah, that one goes down the rabbit hole a lot. 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.480 And I love that people get that extra, put that extra effort in. 00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:03.119 And yeah, maybe it's just uh uh it's just a worrying thing for people to realize what you can do with JavaScript. 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:14.480 So if you think you can write your own filter rather than relying on the in-built W3C APIs to do HTML filtering, read this and weep. 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:16.719 Yeah. 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.800 Cool, a few tips and tricks. 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.960 Uh we talked about PDF earlier. 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:29.119 This is an interesting file viewer that actually allows you to view files in the browser, 257 of them, uh, different types. 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:43.760 So if you ever had something you couldn't read and you didn't want to download uh software that probably is to be paid and stuff, this is a really cool little demo, uh little app that you can use just to show things in the browser. 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.760 And WebAssembly makes that possible. 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.639 So that's pretty amazing what you can do these days. 00:34:50.239 --> 00:35:02.400 And now I want to I want to show off a bit because um I've been um I had problems with my uh with my DNS of my of my Christianheimer.com. 00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:13.199 And uh that means I've actually wanted to move away from WordPress and from my old hosting, and this is what the new version of Christianheimer.com will look like. 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:21.599 And I just had so much fun doing that because I I have a few things in there that actually look quite quite fancy and quite cool. 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:25.280 And what I love most about it right now, this is all static pages. 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:32.400 This is all basically using Jekyll and Markdown and creating HTML pages, so I can host that wherever I want to later on. 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:38.320 So probably uh I should probably ask Thomas if I can get an access to to entire and host for free there. 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:44.639 Because it was free and now it's not anymore, so that's why I'm also want to go away from my from my other uh user out there. 00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:48.559 And it was actually fun building that because it's it's like super responsive. 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:52.000 So you basically if I let's do developer tools. 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.920 Oh okay, that was the wrong screen. 00:35:56.639 --> 00:35:57.440 There you go. 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:06.159 Let's do developer tools, and then you can see it goes to one to one and it goes bigger in the in and other screens, and there's dark and light mode as well. 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:18.719 So if I actually want to do uh command P, command shift p light mode, emulate emulate emulate color light. 00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:25.119 So this is the light mode, this is the dark mode, and there's not a single line of JavaScript in there so far. 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:26.639 This is all using CSS. 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:35.760 And uh the fun bit about that is there's a new few new features that came into CSS lately, which make that and in HTML that make that possible. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.000 And I was just very excited about okay. 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:44.960 I'm lying, the search is actually JavaScript, but that's basically um that's basically the only thing that is done in JavaScript. 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.519 And uh yeah, it's actually a lot of fun. 00:36:47.679 --> 00:37:07.360 What is not fun is taking 21 years of blogging and actually uh cleaning up the HTML that WordPress had generated because I have all these uh uh flash import things like YouTube players from 2007 and 2005 that actually I had to do uh uh a regular expression matching to clean that thing up. 00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:10.000 I'm gonna write that all up and talk about it. 00:37:10.159 -->

00:37:12.320 But I find it more uh most interesting. 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.360 I found the uh the little things that you can do. 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.719 The accordion, for example, I find this very interesting. 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:27.360 This is basically an accordion now that only uses HTML and CSS and is animated, and that wasn't possible before without lots and lots of hacking. 00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:33.840 So all you have to do is basically here do a details and summary and actually give the details a name. 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:46.480 And if it has a name, then it becomes uh not only that you can expand and uh and collapse, but actually it's only one of them at the time, just by adding a name attribute on the details element itself. 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.519 So this is what HTML does to you, and it actually uh uh the browser makes it accessible as well. 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:57.840 So this is not only for mouse, but you can use a keyboard to use to tap through it and open and close it with space as well. 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.440 So that's another thing you don't have to worry about if you just use that one. 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:05.440 The animation is interpolate size allow keywords. 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:12.159 That means now you can use automate to auto and we uh animate to auto, and we never could do that before in CSS. 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:16.400 That only works in Chromium at the moment, but in other browsers it just collapses immediately. 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:20.159 So there's no uh uh it uh the progressive enhancement still works. 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.199 So that's totally fine. 00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:29.199 So all you have to do is content visibility, uh transition on height, transition on allowed screed, and then you actually can do the animation there. 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:44.400 One thing that you have to do in WebKit is actually hide the marker because otherwise in Safari, which of course not many people use a lot, according to some people, uh, it would show both of the the normal uh displayer and the displayer that I created here. 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:51.119 So this is the first thing that just uh if you have to build an accordion, don't use any of the libraries, don't use any of that. 00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:55.119 This is what the browser gives you right now, and it cannot be done faster than that. 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.599 It cannot be done more accessible because the browser worked on these things for you. 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:04.480 The other one is the main layout that I had, and that was the deck with the hero card. 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:10.159 And um, this is uh a simple uh layout with grids. 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:18.239 So basically, you have the uh you have the grid layout, of which I didn't have my CSS here, but this is something that is not not uh not that known. 00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:31.599 But the highlighting one of them and unhighlighting all the other ones, that used to be a thing you had to do in JavaScript, like basically loop through all of them or put a class on the parent element and remove a class from the parent element to do it. 00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.239 And now you can actually use the not selector for that. 00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.440 So basically, you do a deck hover card not hover. 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:44.000 So basically, if you hover on the deck and you're actually not hovering on one of the cards, do the uh apply this. 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:55.679 And the same with like focus within, and focus within is another thing that not many people use yet, because focus within means that you focus on any of the elements inside the other element rather than just like focus on the element itself. 00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:02.000 So, this again is keyboard accessible and works for everybody and highlights only the current card as it is. 00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:04.159 And I have lots of fun with that. 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.280 Uh, take a look at that kind of stuff if you want to do something else. 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:11.519 And uh yeah, hopefully I'm gonna have a nice hosting solution for my blog soon. 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:19.360 And yeah, it's actually quite fun when you when you actually use Jekyll, and yeah, it's like 7,558 files in 13 seconds. 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:31.760 I used to do git, I used to host on GitHub pages, and it took about eight, nine minutes on GitHub pages, and that uh if you don't know in GitHub pages, it's if it takes longer than 10 minutes, it actually stops and that doesn't allow you to build. 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:36.639 So I had that problem, so that's why I went for Jekyll locally as well and using that one instead. 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:38.719 But yeah, it's it's a lot of mess. 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:43.360 And the uh the PHP for cleaning up things is actually not fun at all. 00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:48.159 Like it basically, if you I'm yeah, Jackal Chris Hyman. 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:57.920 This is the kind of stuff where I'm doing the cleanup right now, and this is basically me writing PHP with a cause agents don't do that kind of stuff for me yet. 00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:07.760 But yeah, it's uh it's an interesting little feature that you can play with, and I think it's cute that you can find these things, and people still spend the time to write these things up. 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:15.280 Like I found a lot of a lot of these solutions on CSS tricks and on other platforms, and I think that's something that we should never stop doing. 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:19.039 And uh yeah, these uh this is also an interesting one. 00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.119 We can talk about that in another edition. 00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:32.480 This is a um a source code highlighter that doesn't use any spans at all, and actually doesn't uh it uses the CSS ranges in there, and it's basically just pointed to it and you're done. 00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:40.079 And it's uh it's a

pretty interesting feature as well, uh, which I had to hack a bit to actually make work for myself, but that's something we can do later. 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.679 So, with that, that's the tips and tricks for today. 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:46.320 So uh let's go and play something. 00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:53.920 So we have this game called Faker News where uh we read you headlines, you tell us if these headlines are real or if I made them up. 00:41:54.159 --> 00:42:05.119 And um, yeah, there's there's you can win nothing, but you can uh you can win the the bragging rights to basically be the person that was the best to answer these kind of things. 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:06.719 Let's play fake on news. 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.039 Meta has a new AI pet app called Waddle World. 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.159 It's trending, but it kind of sounds fake to me. 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.519 I would go with fake. 00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:19.840 Oh, it's news? 00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:20.320 Wow. 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:20.800 Yeah. 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.719 You never know what's true. 00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:26.639 Cyberattack on French plasma stores is enough to make your blood boil. 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:28.320 It should be fake. 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:29.360 It should be fake. 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.880 Yeah, I see a pun, and I think it's Chris, so I'm gonna say this is fake. 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:34.639 No, it's news. 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:42.000 That's the ongoing attack on uh on turning off bridges in supermarkets and then also uh uh packed the uh plasma storage in hospitals. 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:43.760 Oh my god, that that's serious. 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.599 Meta isn't naming its AI models after fruit anymore. 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.159 I'll take help. 00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.239 If I if I go with my god, it's all wrong. 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:52.880 Cool. 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.920 Um I would say news, because it feels like a bonkers headline. 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:56.639 I'd say it's news. 00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:57.840 Yeah, let's go ahead. 00:42:57.920 --> 00:42:59.119 Let's go ahead with you. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.719 Ah yeah! 00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:02.239 It is it is actually news. 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:04.960 The last one was called watermelon, they realized it's too silly. 00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:06.639 Yeah, but banana is trending. 00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.239 Data certics are turned to old jet engines as the wait for power grows. 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:11.360 Could be news. 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:12.800 Yeah, that was a tough one. 00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:14.719 Yep, it is news. 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.760 Google will turn off search for schools that ban AI. 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.199 I don't think they'll do that. 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:20.800 It sounds fake to me. 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:22.079 See, I'm not sure. 00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.119 I feel like that could be news, but I'm I'm we'll go with your first answer. 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:25.599 Fake. 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:27.519 It's news. 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.000 Oh wow, why would they do that? 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:35.679 French AI company Mistral defines framework to allow agents to unionize and go on strike. 00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:39.920 See, all the absurd things that I think are fake turns out to be news. 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.079 But God says it's fake. 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:45.280 But I'll go with news just to see if I'm wrong or right. 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:46.000 Uh oh. 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:48.639 I made that one up. 00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:49.280 Yeah. 00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:50.559 I was sure you were right. 00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:51.679 I was sure you were right. 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.079 It would be a thing to do, but yeah. 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:56.480 It's time to like a real headline. 00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:59.599 Safari first browser to implement agent detection in automated. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.039 Blocking. 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:03.280 Yeah, Safari and me. 00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:05.119 And that's just news. 00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:06.400 What do you think, Daniel? 00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:08.559 Yeah, yeah, I feel I feel like it could be. 00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:09.119 Yeah. 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:09.840 Oh. 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:11.119 That's fake. 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:12.079 Oh wow. 00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:14.000 I I think I think I'm the worst scorer. 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:20.000 If there's a lead core leaderboard for that, somebody who's winning as the worst score, it should be me. 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:27.519 Well, I mean, we've we've had the discussion before that maybe getting them wrong is a good thing because uh you know if you if you get all these right, then maybe there's an issue. 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:28.159 Number eight. 00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:36.159 Cisco gives 27-year-old engineer unlimited AI tokens to rewrite 98% of the company's legacy code in 24 months. 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.119 This sounds yeah, this sounds true to me. 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:43.280 It's we we read about X, you know, changing everything in six months. 00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:45.039 Really? 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:48.960 He literally did, the CEO literally told him to go nuts. 00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.199 People used to drink wine made up from ground-up mummies. 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:57.039 Now scientists are studying it. 00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:02.719 People and AI can both do weird stuff, so let's I think it's news. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:03.519 What do you think? 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:05.280 Yeah, I think it's news as well. 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:06.960 It's so specific. 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:07.599 Yeah. 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:07.920 Yeah. 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:13.760 Fujifilm to boost tape production five times as AI fuels archiving demand. 00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:15.199 Could mean news. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:16.320 Yeah. 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:18.159

Again, it feels so specific. 00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:18.719 Yeah. 00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:19.599 Yeah. 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:21.519 I'm getting a hang on it. 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:27.920 German government to issue schools with laptops instead of iPads after discovering massive decline in reading levels. 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:28.880 That's a very interesting one. 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:29.360 What do you think? 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:29.679 I don't know. 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:31.440 They should have replaced it with books. 00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:32.400 That's a news. 00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:33.440 Let's go with news. 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:34.239 Let's see. 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:35.360 Yeah. 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:36.159 It's fake. 00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:46.000 It was Norway that did an analysis on having given kids iPads years ago, and the reading levels went down, but Germany gives nothing to schools for free, so that's not never news. 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:47.199 Oh, what a shame. 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:47.360 Yeah. 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:51.119 Android flaw allows web apps to scan fingerprints without user knowledge. 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:52.880 I feel it could be news. 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:54.159 What do you think? 00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:57.360 Yeah, I feel like it's news because it's a flaw, it's not on purpose. 00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:02.639 I feel like you're really good at it. 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:06.400 You're really really good at making making up these these ones. 00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:08.880 You are, where are you on the list? 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:13.199 Oh, we didn't make it onto the leaderboard today, I'm afraid. 00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:13.920 Oh no. 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:20.400 Oh, yeah, we've got joint look, we've got all these joint six down here, and they had just one more point than you. 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:22.880 Uh so if we'd got that final point, we would have been on the leaderboard. 00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:24.079 I see my friends live in there. 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.760 I see Dan, I see Jason. 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:29.519 But uh yeah, good effort anyway. 00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:30.320 Good effort. 00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:42.239 Well, it's just a game I made up to to preserve my own sanity because I have to read these headlines, and I may read about 700 to 600 a day a week to actually make the newsletter on Friday. 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:50.719 So that's why I realized there's so many bonkers things that I just have to uh get cleanse out of my mind and write them down and come up with more random things. 00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.559 Yeah, it's fun. 00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:54.400 It was fun for sure. 00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:02.559 Now, uh, your main topic today, and Dan uh, why did you take the lead on that to interview Haiman Tieke about that? 00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:11.360 You seem to be running a lot of side projects and releasing them kind of lily-willy, and it seems like side projects are meant to be life,

right? 00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.400 It's that what's right now here? 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:16.480 Right, right now, yes. 00:47:16.639 --> 00:47:36.159 But I in general, like even before AI feel that especially as like I transitioned when I was using X when I was a student, I was just finishing my um you know my graduation degree, and then it was easier for me, especially like I I come from a not a very popular town, and then India in itself is a huge and competitive market. 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:44.239 So if I have to get eyes of a recruiter or people to really hire me, they would want to see one thing that and that should be accessible to them. 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:55.519 So, in my opinion, like because now deploying is way easier than it was a few years back, so it should be a link rather than something that people would have to make effort to actually see what you have done. 00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:57.119 So, yeah, it should be deployed. 00:47:57.280 --> 00:47:59.199 The long answer to your short question. 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:04.800 Because I think the first thing you deployed that I remember seeing that I thought was really interesting, and it seemed to sort of pop off a little bit. 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.400 I don't know if it went kind of like miniviral or you know, you never quite know how big it went in the end. 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:13.840 But you had like a um like a Planck assessment app that I think was using AI to assess it. 00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:18.559 And I remember that being quite early on in in the kind of people building things with different models. 00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:27.199 Um, so was that an opportunity to learn, or was it that you were just thinking, well, actually, I can solve a problem for myself now, and then maybe other people would enjoy it. 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:28.480 Like, what was the starting point? 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:30.719 Yeah, it was so two things. 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:36.480 For first was that I wanted to like voice AI is still very new, and I and it was just getting started. 00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:49.840 So I was like, I want to see how voice AI really works, and if it if it's really what the hype that I see on my ex feed, and that that's how I so my intention was to learn about voice AI, and then I have a friend who works at Gradium. 00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:59.840 He's like, Oh, you you should use Gradium and see how it works, and that's that was just me trying out things, and I recently started getting into fitness, and I'm somebody who is not at all self-motivated. 00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:04.719 Uh like I like to be pushed by people to say me that go work out, you're lazy. 00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:08.159 So I thought that if and I I was like, Go work out, you're lazy. 00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:13.199 Yeah, say you can do that to me every day. 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:30.159 But then I wanted somebody, if not a human, I thought that okay, there could be somebody who is actually uh fixing my forms and you know, like helping me get them because a lot I figured out later a lot of exercises that I was doing without a coach was wrong, which is why I I was never able to grow muscles. 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:35.760 So that's that's when I started with Planck because my core strength is that is is really bad. 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:48.480 And that's so it was a problem that I wanted to solve, and it was also me trying to understand how voice AI really works, and then that's how the project idea came up, and I built it, and yeah, it kind of ended up being viral. 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:57.599 So, how did it then sort of take a turn into because I mean Chris, you said it, you know, about sort of uh when something can say like willy-nilly, it's um it's not necessarily a bad thing, right? 00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:04.880 But it's maybe that there isn't sort of like a really clear theme to the things that people create, but maybe they create sort of a number of different things in different directions. 00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:14.000 And the next thing you sort of seem to pick up was like the desktop pets and the kind of uh desktop buddies, and it it seem it seems to be occasionally. 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:27.280 I've heard you mention things like go out and touch grass and this idea of uh when you're on social media, you're not actually always talking about development, you're trying to show the the human things that you do, and quite often they're outdoors, and then you say to people, remember, go outside. 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:31.760 Um, was the desktop pet kind of idea anything to do with that? 00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:38.239 Whether it's like the loneliness of us working remotely or uh not having human beings in the office to speak to. 00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:40.960 Uh, what was the kind of what was the backstory behind them? 00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:42.239 How did that come to be? 00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:50.320 Yeah, I I like pets, and okay, the first thing that I did was I came after watching the Spider-Man movie and I was like, oh, Spider-Man is cool. 00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:55.039 I and I remembered again that okay, Spider-Man is cool, and I saw that okay, there are pets. 00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:59.280 So it also came with this thought that we have AI doing so much advancement. 00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:18.639 But my my parent, for example, that she is really like well-versed in a local language, she can speak broken English, but then most of the things that we still do today is like especially local languages, because in India there is so many local languages, it's like AI is still doing a very bleak job, it's it's not really great at it. 00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:37.599 And I was thinking that okay, for my mom to really use AI to the extent that maybe somehow how I use it, or at least go to some level closer to that, she would have to like you know, upskill on either on you know, like learn English really well, or she would just have to like how can I

make it easier for her for her? 00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:40.559 So the first thing that I tried was doing that on her phone. 00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:59.519 She uses an Android phone, and then I was like, okay, like what if we could do something like that for pet, like for desktop, but for people like me who's working remotely, like you came up, and then like most of the times now that I'm home, it's my mom or my sister coming and telling me that oh, you should get you have been on the laptop for a long time, you should go sleep, you should go walk. 00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:08.480 Like I said, I'm not a very self-motivated person, so I was like, Okay, when I'm alone in a different city and when I'm working remotely, I I cannot take or I'm not going out. 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.760 When I was working from office, I had people around me and we would often go out for tea and coffee breaks. 00:52:13.840 --> 00:52:20.800 So, yeah, there should be somebody telling that to me in a familiar uh language that okay, you have done enough now. 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:21.599 Let's go. 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:23.679 It's it's time for tea or it's time for a walk. 00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:29.039 So, yeah, that's multiple thoughts that I had in my mind, and finally I'm I built Spidey. 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:30.480 That's interesting. 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:33.360 Did you get your did you say it was for your mum or for you? 00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:34.559 Sorry, just to sort of pick up on that. 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:40.480 Was it more for your mum to use, or was it more of having your mom's voice saying, like, you know, go uh go to bed or stop working? 00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:57.119 Um so this one was for me, but the idea because this can speak in local languages as well, like the language I speak at my home, and the idea of because I I speak English most of the times, so for me, English is like I I am well versed in it. 00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:04.239 But then for um, you know, the idea of adding local languages to the loc to my pet came from the idea of building something for my mom. 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:14.800 I was like, yeah, you know, it's nice for AI to have that personalized touch to things that would be on my laptop or be on the devices that I'm using most of the times while I'm awake. 00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:16.960 So what is the idea? 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:46.639 It's a desktop, so it's a desktop uh pet that will hang from your not your Mac MacBook's notch display, and then you can pull it up or you can pull it down, and then it will so you can set reminders and then on its own it will say things like and if let's say you have you have you actually remember certain things, so it's basically a kind of an AI agent that can do little small tasks for you, not a lot of them, but it's it's just they're hanging from your non-witch display. 00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:49.039 And to be very honest, I did that because it's cute. 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.559 A lot of things are

in build these days, it's because it's cute. 00:53:53.840 --> 00:54:00.000 Okay, and just it didn't didn't get sued by Marvel yet on and uh and Disney. 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:02.320 There we go. 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:04.159 We've got a nice little uh so you can kind of see it. 00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:07.119 I don't know if you can hear the audio on that as well. 00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:08.639 But cancel because I've still canceled. 00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:11.280 Um, but I think you know what I quite like about this. 00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:13.039 Ah, sorry. 00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:21.760 Um, but what what I quite like about it though, you know, is the is the kind of uh um, like we said, it's not that you're necessarily trying to kind of bring these things out and say, here's a new startup. 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:28.320 It's not even necessarily that you um are making things that you plan on kind of maintaining because they might not need it, right? 00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:33.199 And that there's this thing that you were doing of like the weekend experiment that I really liked where, or something like that. 00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:35.280 You were calling it like weekend or Saturday. 00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:56.000 And it was, I thought it was really nice because actually um there's a few times that we've had developers talk about, you know, um, when you build or should you build things on the weekend or why you should build things, and it's always got this slight potential to kind of be a negative message because it's kind of saying, um, you've done 40 hours this week, do another 20 over the weekend, you know, don't see your family, work hard, work harder. 00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.960 And and it kind of feels like people lose their way. 00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:09.119 And what you've done is this really sort of uh healthy way of doing it where you're framing it as like, I'm building something for fun on Saturday because it's fun. 00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:11.920 And that's like a really positive. 00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:16.000 It never comes across like you're saying, I'm doing this because we need to hustle. 00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:20.000 You know, it's it's always a kind of I had an idea, what do you guys think? 00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:32.719 And then the bit at the end where you just say, Well, it's done and you throw it out there, I think that's really impressive because that's the hard part, I think, is actually putting your baby out there and then kind of having people go, I hate it and not get upset. 00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:34.239 So yeah. 00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:35.440 Right. 00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:48.719 I think yes, because like people like me, um, I like I enjoy tech because I I like it, and like even if I'm and I feel that a lot of people who have who I see building cool projects, they do it for fun. 00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:58.880 Like fun is the main motive in their mind, and then somehow, and because they're doing it out of love and something that they're really interested in, not out of compulsion, they come up with the most creative ideas. 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:08.559 And the moment, let's say that when somebody is really forcing me to build content, let's say, so especially on Instagram, if there's like brands and stuff asking me to build content, I go blank. 00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:14.239 I'm like, I cannot, because now you're forcing it on me, and now I have no creative ability, I cannot think through. 00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:20.880 But if it was coming to me naturally and something that, oh, this is this is fun, this is cool, I would have had 10x better ideas. 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.679 So, yeah, that that's that's where I I come from. 00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:29.119 And yeah, I think I'm glad that I at least you could notice that because we never had this conversation before. 00:56:29.280 --> 00:56:34.639 So I'm glad that the tone of the tweets does send out that message is that that's there in my mind. 00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:39.920 Yeah, I think it's also just to add to that that the um you've said twice about yourself are not self-motivated. 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:47.519 And actually, I I wouldn't really agree from my side, only because um all of this stuff, my my kind of point is it's always clearly self-motivated. 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:52.960 It's it's coming from a place of wanting to experiment, wanting to learn, enhance your career, pick up new technology. 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:57.519 Like these are all things that we should all do in development, but don't have the time. 00:56:57.679 --> 00:57:01.840 And then we're told to, you know, like if you're not hustling enough, you're gonna fall behind. 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:14.559 So I think actually it's it is important to have people like you that are showing that you can build things for fun, but they still will help your career and they will help you learn, but they don't have to be a billion-dollar business, like there's plenty of happy medium in between. 00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:15.519 Um, exactly. 00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:16.719 So yeah, I really appreciate it. 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:17.280 I think it's cool. 00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:20.480 You never quite know what you're gonna make next, and I really like that. 00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:29.519 Yeah, also your career kind of uh uh uh really shot up by by being a hackathon back then, wasn't it? 00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:35.679 Like, so that already is a thing that that was in your DNA, kind of like in your being being professional here. 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:36.559 Exactly. 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:40.079 Yeah, the first job I got like at Microsoft was through a hackathon. 00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:45.840 So I I really like billing, and like even now, especially like it's it's been a while since I built something. 00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:47.679 I think the last bit that I built was Spidey. 00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:54.960 It's been almost two two months now, yeah, or maybe a month and a half,

but I really don't force myself to build something. 00:57:57.039 --> 00:57:58.880 Yes, Slacker, yeah, that's it. 00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:01.119 Yeah, should have done 10 projects by then, you know. 00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.039 Yeah, it's kind of yeah, exactly. 00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:08.880 And probably got funding and stuff like yeah, be a builder and get like investment and these kind of things. 00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:10.239 Like, no, uh, this is great. 00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:12.239 I mean, I love people that play with technology. 00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:16.719 I love that also you put the feature in that you your mom and the language aspect of it. 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:18.559 So that's something that I always found. 00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:21.599 Uh uh hackathons and these kind of things like really useful. 00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:30.000 I mean, the BBC hackathon that I won back then, I've made I made a YouTube available for people for uh for people who can't see, which YouTube didn't have back then. 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:48.079 And these kinds of features are super important for people because technology to me is a tool, it's basically like uh it's a tool to get people access to things that they didn't have access to before, or to explain complex things in a simpler fashion uh uh by by using something exciting that that and playful with that. 00:58:48.159 --> 00:59:02.000 That's a really cool thing to have because and it's fun because I I remember when when when Dan just gave me the title desktop pets, I remember one of the first things on uh that people always installed in like uh in like old operating systems were these whimsical things. 00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:04.480 There was like Neko.exe.exe. 00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:09.440 It was like a little cat for Windows 2.11 that would go through your screen and just walk around it. 00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:32.239 And there was sheep.exe, which basically is like a sheep that you could put on top of Windows and would walk around, and then it would go to the go to the end of it and look down, and when you double-clicked it, it it it barred, and like it was like it was unnecessary and useless, but it was just something that immediately people would take on, take something, make something emotional, make something interesting. 00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:34.639 And uh, yeah, that's a good thing to have. 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:40.400 I mean, there's there's also VS Code extension pets where you can have like little pets running around in your VS Code. 00:59:40.639 --> 00:59:44.000 And uh I realized that I had that on the other machine, I forgot about it. 00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:48.480 But all of a sudden I had like random cats and dogs running around in my code, and I'm like, wait, what? 00:59:48.639 --> 00:59:53.360 But yeah, it was just fun things to do, and um nobody stops you from doing it. 00:59:53.519 --> 01:00:01.840 And it's great that you uh, I mean, you do that in your free time, but I guess you also get

uh do you get in your company, do you get a certain amount of time where you can play? 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:05.599 What's the what's the idea inside Intire at the moment? 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:13.280 Is there something like in Microsoft where you have like a 10% time kind of thing, or is this something that you still have to define? 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:19.360 Yeah, so I didn't get to your questions about like the building part, like at entire how what exactly? 01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:19.920 Yeah, yeah. 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:20.400 Do you do it? 01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:26.559 Well, do you do you have do you have time it at work also to play, or is it more or less your free time to do? 01:00:26.719 --> 01:00:34.159 Like what's what's the the uh the company policy on like letting people uh hack is their internal hack days, these kind of things? 01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:54.239 So yeah, I think it's so we have this channel in our uh uh within a company that says ships, which is basically like even during your work, you can like you know, like build something, so like try your different products, and we have different channels which kind of you know promotes that okay, like read what's going on around the world and then share interesting and fun things. 01:00:54.480 --> 01:01:17.599 So there's like no policy that's really defined because we are very you know small as a startup and very new as well as a startup, but then it's like okay, if you have built something cool, the the show showcase it and it could it would count as a valid work that that you have done, and if it somehow includes entire or it it is benefiting the company performance-wise or whatever ways is it's even great. 01:01:17.679 --> 01:01:36.239 Like I have my teammate Lizzie because especially we work in DevRil, who builds really fun demos on you know, doing walking tours around SF, and then then those were like let's say she shows one use case of how she used um entire for that, but then she built it during her work time, and then that that was that counted as a demo. 01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:53.760 I think that's a good part of the job role that we are in as well, because it lets us build, do be creative and build fun stuff, so yeah, yeah, we we don't have anything that's uh a guidance around it, but then we are free to do whatever we want even during our work time. 01:01:55.039 --> 01:02:01.679 I just want to make sure that people I just want to make sure that people realize that that there's one thing that you should worry about though. 01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:20.239 If you build something in your free time and you want to make it a product and you want to make it something else and you want to make money with it or something, most companies, and that is actually a thing that it should be in your work contract, uh, will actually uh say that if you use company hardware or company resources for it, it's owned by the company. 01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:31.519 So that's why I keep saying if you want to do something on the site, get an own computer and not actually not use the company computer, because that's something that you don't want, you don't want to get the lawyers of e-company to have to deal with. 01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:34.320 So that's something to consider. 01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:38.159 Like, because most companies will tell you, like, oh, we're cool, we'll innovate. 01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:48.480 But when you come when push comes to shop and you build something really cool that is successful, uh, the company will take it away from you if you build if you use it on your own hardware, uh your company hardware rather than your own. 01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:49.920 So that's something to wonder about. 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:57.039 Yeah, like I have a personal laptop on which I usually do these things, so this is something that I always like to keep two things separate. 01:02:57.119 --> 01:03:03.440 Like, okay, this is work, this is my work hardware, this is my work subscriptions, and then I have my personal subscriptions and personal hardware. 01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:06.239 So that's a very that's very very good point for sure. 01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:07.679 Cool. 01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:08.480 Yeah. 01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:13.679 Well, I mean, this was this was interesting, this was great, and I love that you inspire people like that as well. 01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:17.360 Uh, you're gonna be, of course, in Bangalore at our event at Bengaluru. 01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:18.639 Uh, at our event. 01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:18.960 Yes. 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:20.000 Uh, are you speaking? 01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:21.280 Are you gonna be at the booth? 01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:22.880 Where where can we meet you? 01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:28.000 So we have a booth, uh, a big one from what our conversations that have heard so far. 01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:42.000 And then I also have two workshops where I'll be again, since we're talking about the building the fun stuff, so people who will be at the workshops they'll learn how to build something fun at the end of the it's it's almost, I think, a two hours workshop, so two two-hour workshops. 01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:46.320 So by the end of these different workshops, people will go back building something. 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:53.199 So that's the first thing that I came in my mind that okay, workshop, people should go back, uh you know, getting something built of their own. 01:03:53.280 --> 01:03:59.360 So, yeah, but that's I'll be there at Wear Developers at the booth and also at the two workshops that I'm doing. 01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:00.079 Cool. 01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:02.639 Well, this was enjoyable. 01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:07.360 Anything else you have for our audience to basically uh get out there as a message? 01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:10.000 Anything you want to get off your chest? 01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:15.360 Yeah, I think that we you know tech is really moving forward at a very high speed. 01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:23.840 So, like, even for people like us who really enjoys doing that, even on the weekend, I would say that yeah, take your time off the screen, they spend time with your family. 01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:25.920 Things can get overwhelming really fast. 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:31.920 Like, I go off the internet for two days and I see that there's huge things that's that's going on, so that that will happen. 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:44.960 That's very natural, but it's also important to have your mental sanity in place and not get overwhelmed with all the things that are happening around, especially including in in the job domain that we are in because it's changing so fast. 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:46.239 Cool. 01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:48.000 Well, thanks very much, Hiamatika. 01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:48.880 This was amazing. 01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:50.159 Thank you very much, Mart Daniel. 01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:52.639 This was we are developers live for this time. 01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:55.440 Next week, we're gonna have somebody else from Bengaluru coming in. 01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.480 So it's been now actually focusing 100% on that. 01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:02.639 We see you all there in two weeks' time, three weeks time, something like that. 01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:03.280 Oh my god. 01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:08.320 And then immediately afterward, we're going to AWS in uh reInvent in Las Vegas. 01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:11.280 So uh it's gonna be yeah, it's gonna be interesting times. 01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:17.280 I'm gonna see a lot of airports in like two days' time, so it's it's gonna be all over the shop. 01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:18.480 So uh thanks very much. 01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:24.000 This was Revelopers Live for today, and tune in next week and come back for coffee with developers. 01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:24.719 See you soon. 01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:25.280 Bye bye. 01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:26.239 Thank you so much. 01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:26.800 Bye.