النص الكامل لحلقة Finding the Agent You Need with Leticia Gomez

fun stuff. 77 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:49.960 Schedule is on the website, but let me just give 78 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.879 you the short and about not very much time. We'll 79 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:57.560 be inviting people into the into the app so they 80 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.840 can see the schedule for themselves. In fact, that might 81 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:03.599 be happening about the time this goes out. Anyway, Yeah, 82 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:08.199 they can see it. But you know, take assume that 83 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.599 whatever you want to talked about will be talked about, 84 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.039 because I think it will be. We cover every aspect, 85 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:21.000 every kind of writing, marketing, publisher, getting a publisher there. 86 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:23.199 As Lara knows, there is a moment I don't know, 87 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:24.879 a week or two or so when I kind of 88 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.279 slapped the table and said, wait, we don't have a 89 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:31.279 songwriter now. To be fair, that's not usually the you know, 90 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:35.240 what most people come to writer con for. But I 91 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:40.000 want to cover everything, so bye, gosh, Lara suggested a songwriter. 92 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.439 Right too, And they're coming, Yes they are. And to 93 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.680 all the gamers out there who are listening, who really 94 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.879 want to get involved in writing for games, this is 95 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.240 the place to be. Bill has even made sure that 96 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.000 we are going to cover writing for games. This year 97 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:56.720 really and. 98 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:01.680 Comic books which christ I've been talking about Superman Wars 99 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:02.160 all year. 100 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.279 Law literally everything this year. 101 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:10.240 So take this opportunity, Heed, to jump your career to 102 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:12.240 the next level. All Right, I just. 103 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.639 Say one more thing, just in case you're sitting out 104 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.040 there thinking, well, I've never been, I don't know anybody there. 105 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:24.279 It'll be awkward, I'll feel uncomfortable. Put that thought aside. 106 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.439 Don't let that inner boys talk you out of coming. 107 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:31.920 We do not have strangers at ryd Orcan. We have 108 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:35.120 new members of the family that we welcome in with 109 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.800 open arms. And I promise you will feel welcome, you 110 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:42.360 will feel included. I do not let anybody feel like 111 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.600 they don't belong there or aren't wanted there, because we 112 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.360 do want you there. We absolutely want you there, So 113 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:51.600 don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. We are 114 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.040 all a bunch of introverts at heart, but this is 115 00:05:54.040 --> 00:06:00.120 the most loving, accepting, welcoming group of people you can imagine. 116 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.639 And I'll be right there at the registration table. You 117 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.879 can always come find me. If you're feeling a little uncomfortable, lost, awkward, 118 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:09.680 come and find me. I don't want anybody to feel 119 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:10.079 that way. 120 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:12.160 I was just going to say, it's a good mix 121 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:16.199 of introverts and extroverts there. Uh yeah, so. 122 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:17.480 The exos lift us all up. 123 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:19.920 Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we'll bring the energy. 124 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:23.959 So there you have it. Everything she said is true, 125 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:28.399 although the hugging is optional. But I always encourage people 126 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.360 to make friends. Because now I am backing into my book. 127 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.879 But you know what my pitch is, don't let what 128 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:39.759 happened to Jerry Siegel happened to you get the information 129 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.920 you need to protect yourself and make the most of 130 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:46.920 the publishing and writing opportunities that are out there now. 131 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:50.600 Absolutely, and I have bad ribbons for people who don't 132 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:52.759 want to hug and don't want to shake hands, So 133 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:54.920 you can go ahead and let people know that you'd 134 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:57.399 prefer not to and we will respect those. 135 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.519 She has ribbons for everything I did. 136 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:01.800 I kind of a little crazy on the ribbons this year. 137 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.839 So if nothing else, she got to come to writer 138 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.920 kind to see the ribbons. 139 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:08.680 Right, it's gonna be fun. 140 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:12.240 We're gonna have so much fun today. For a change 141 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.120 of pace, we're going to interview and not a writer, 142 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.800 but someone who has worked as both an agent and 143 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:22.399 an editor. Now for Kensington. She's coming to write her 144 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:26.040 con and that's Laticia Gomez. As I said, she was 145 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.399 the founder and principal agent of the very successful Savvy 146 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:33.879 Literary Services. Now she's focusing on being editor at large 147 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.120 for Delphina Books, which is an imprint at Kensington Publishing, 148 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.480

which I bet you've heard about or seen on the 149 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.920 spine of a book before. She has helped her client 150 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.279 secure deals with the largest publishers in the world as 151 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:50.839 an agent, and now as a publisher, she's seeing several 152 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:56.120 of her projects successfully optioned for teaching, TV and film adaptation. 153 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:00.279 So we will talk to her about all that and more. 154 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:17.000 But first the news news story number one, a new 155 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:23.040 Simon and Schuster imprint is targeting self published authors. Maybe 156 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.040 I shouldn't have used the word targeting. That sort of 157 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:27.879 sounds like a firing squad, But what I meant to 158 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:33.480 say was that they're providing additional opportunities. This is not 159 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.360 the first Big five initiative trying to pick up successful 160 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:42.159 self published authors, because why not. They're low risk, because 161 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.480 they've already done the work of building up their audience. 162 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:47.080 And you know who would you bet money on a 163 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.879 total unknown or somebody who's got a big following. They're 164 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:53.039 always trying to lure in the self published. The director 165 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:57.039 of this new imprint said, and here I'm quoting, legions 166 00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:59.879 of authors have carved out huge success in the indie s, 167 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:04.679 appreciating the speed and reader focus that self publishing offers them. 168 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:08.480 But they can also gain so much from the editorial partnership, 169 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.559 digital marketing expertise, and the global reach that a publisher 170 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:16.639 such as Simon and Schuster can offer them. And quote, 171 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:21.960 of course, there's a difference between can and Will Jesse. 172 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:27.039 As a I can't really call you an outsider anymore, 173 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:31.440 but as an alleged non writer. Is this an opportunity 174 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:34.799 for the self published to gain a bigger audience with 175 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:39.080 a big publisher or an opportunity for traditional publishers to 176 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:41.559 take advantage of the audience they've already built at their 177 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:45.919 own expense while simlent Now, I'm really this is what 178 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:47.200 lawyers call a leading question. 179 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:49.399 I was going to say, it's a very inpretting to continue. 180 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:55.840 While simultaneously segregating them onto their own separate imprint. What 181 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.320 do you think? Jesse objection? 182 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:05.799 Yeah, I'm confused about how this is. How is this 183 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:11.840 different from a publisher, you know, taking a book and 184 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.879 doing what publishers normally do. Like where where where is 185 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:20.679 the like is there a agreement about who gets what? 186 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.279 I just I'm trying to figure out how this is 187 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.480 different from you just being is this Are these people 188 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:30.320 just targeting people who are already sorry, focusing on writer 189 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.799 independent writers who already have a big audience and being like, hey, 190 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:34.720 we want some of your audience. You can have some 191 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.879 of the things that we normally do. Or is this 192 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:40.600 an opportunity for people who are, you know, beginning in 193 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.360 independent publishing who. 194 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:45.120 Know this is so yeah? 195 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.799 So I don't see what the I mean. I guess 196 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:50.360 there is a value add to this for people who 197 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:52.639 are already successful in indie publishing, just to you know, 198 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.679 say that they are now published. I just yeah, I'm 199 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.159 just like this, this feels Yeah. 200 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.759 That's why I emphasize this separate imprint. I mean, they've 201 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:06.279 been acquiring self published authors for a long time now, 202 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.320 and for obvious reasons that I think I just explained 203 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.039 they're a safer bet. But why did they have to 204 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.440 have their own imprint? What's that that smacks? It's not 205 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.639 quite as bad as the basically vanity press imprints that 206 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.159 are totally segregated. But it does have sort of a 207 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.559 I don't know, I'd say taint about it. Bet Laura 208 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:31.600 would be really upset if I use that word. So 209 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.200 never mind that. You remember when they acquired q Houris 210 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:38.759 and it might have been one of the first to 211 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:41.519 get this kind of treatment because after Wool which we 212 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.559 now know as Silo, took off, I think it was 213 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:48.960 the same big publisher came calling and he notably said, sure, 214 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:50.679 you can have the print rights because you can get 215 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:54.159 into bookstores, but he kept the e book rights. Now 216 00:11:54.240 --> 00:12:00.639 these people

everything while for I don't know, maybe there's 217 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.120 a benefit to being in a separate imprint, but I'm 218 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:04.639 really not seeing it. 219 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:08.480 This feels like a problem, like a solution in search 220 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:10.120 of a problem sort of situation. 221 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.360 So looks to me like a way for them to 222 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:15.679 take advantage of this. I mean, they've spent like a 223 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.399 decade now imitating all the marketing innovations that indie authors 224 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.639 came up with, and now they're just trying to get 225 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:25.840 the authors totally. I mean, maybe there is you probably 226 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.159 get better distribution in bookstores that might. 227 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:30.879 Be Yeah, I guess I mean that that part helps it. 228 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.720 Just it feels like this this publisher is skipping the 229 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.480 stages of having to like review and find new authors, 230 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.320 like the thing they were normally good at and helpful for. 231 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:42.440 There's like, we're just gonna find people who are ready 232 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.320 popular and you know, slap our name on it, and 233 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:47.360 that feels doesn't feel great. 234 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:52.679 No, would you, Laura? Would you sign with this imprint. 235 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:54.440 If I ever reached the point where I'm off? 236 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.399 Yeah, if you had, if you had self published a 237 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.600 book that hit the top ten and people's art calling, 238 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:01.759 would you do exactly? 239 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:04.639 So all of those things we've talked about would be 240 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:06.480 on my mind. So I would need to sit down 241 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:08.080 and I would I would want to know how does 242 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.960 it benefit me? I can see how the publisher benefits 243 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.519 from this scenario. I've built up a following, I'm already 244 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.799 selling books, I've already got a readership for them. They 245 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.399 don't have to invest anything in that. So what would 246 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.399 they be offering me that would make it then worth 247 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:29.679 my while? Yeah? And I was actually thinking of exactly 248 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.960 Hugh Howie and how he'd just let them have print rights, 249 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.519 because why not if they could, if they could really 250 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:39.759 convince me that they could sell more than I could 251 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.519 and offer me more opportunities. Maybe they were going to 252 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:45.519 back trying to get it made into some kind of 253 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:49.080 series or film or something along those lines, something that 254 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.000 might be a little more difficult for me to open 255 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.279 the door to. Then we could talk. 256 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.960 Yeah, well I can help them that answer. I feel 257 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.759 less bad now about all the months you've spent listening 258 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.120 to me yak about the Superman Wars, because you got 259 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:09.000 the bottom message. Oh yeah, don't sign anything unless first 260 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.399 it's been reviewed by a lawyer or an extremely experienced agent. 261 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:17.759 And don't sign anything unless there's something in it for you. 262 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:20.480 And I don't just mean getting your book published, I 263 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.679 mean what's in it for you? What do you get out? 264 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:24.039 At least? 265 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.000 Well, that's one of the perks of being married to 266 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:30.080 an attorney and attorney slash writers. 267 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:37.039 Oh yes, News story number two. Here's the debate. Can 268 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:44.320 agents charge fees to their own clients ethically? This has 269 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:51.200 two parts. First, the results from an American literary agent's survey, 270 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:55.320 and second, what we found out now is happening to 271 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:59.159 the agent's canon of ethics. So this survey was taken 272 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:03.840 recently working conditions and compensation, but the big thing it 273 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.120 targeted was financial instability. It was a top concern in 274 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.120 this year's survey. Just under thirty nine percent of those 275 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:17.559 answering reported and income of under fifty thousand dollars from 276 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.360 their agency agenting work, which would be hard to get 277 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:24.679 by with, especially if you're in New York, and twenty 278 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.080 one point two percent reported in an annual income of 279 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.399 less than twenty five thousand, which I think is like 280 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:36.159 below the poverty line. Now, three quarters of respondents reported 281 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:41.440 secondary income streams no surprise there, or spouses or trust 282 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:45.519 funds or something, and nearly half depend on income derived 283 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:49.720 from an additional job inside or outside of publishing. So 284 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:55.399 the AALA is in the process of revising its canon 285 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.960 of ethics, and this time the word is it's going 286 00:15:59.000 -->

00:16:04.720 to allow for more flexibility in how agents earn a living. Specifically, 287 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:10.039 agents will be able to potentially make money from referrals 288 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.440 to third party like when you send the project to 289 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:18.320 somebody else, you'd get a referral fee. Another one, agents 290 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.279 can service the publisher of their client's work if both 291 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:25.720 of them agree to it. Basically so an agent can 292 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:28.960 publish their own work, presumably as sort of a self 293 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:34.080 published thing. That seems agents can keep money paid by 294 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:40.200 clients for editorial services. Some agents do read their clients' 295 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.080 work and some even edit it, but I don't think 296 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:48.120 they normally charged for it. Now they're going to be 297 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.720 able to the downside there, of course, is that somebody 298 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:53.240 could charge for editing your fee and then not take 299 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.960 you on as a client. But I won't editorialize anymore. 300 00:16:57.320 --> 00:17:02.879 Agents can to offer paid services for clients for clients, 301 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.279 and agents can offer any kind of paid service to 302 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.160 non clients. Some of this has been going on for 303 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.880 a while, Like they can be a social media consultant, 304 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:16.480 or an indie publishing consultant, or a web design consultant 305 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:23.200 or whatever. Okay, Jesse, we're gonna boil all this down. 306 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:28.480 So I can't exactly charge for representation exactly, but they 307 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:33.960 can charge for services that are very representation adjacent. How 308 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.039 does this look to you? 309 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.640 I feel like this is just a reflection of the 310 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:42.599 time that we are in as far as like what 311 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.839 the publishing world is going through. Where I think before 312 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:52.839 like agents at major publishing houses could survive off of 313 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.119 what they were normally making, and now like all of 314 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.039 the small things that used to be given are now like, 315 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.519 maybe we should charge for this because when I'm enough 316 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.559 doing the other things doesn't feel great when you read it. 317 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:08.440 But also as someone who is a contractor themselves, like 318 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:10.960 some of this makes sense where there are things you 319 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.559 would give a client for free when the economy is good, 320 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:15.839 and then things you would charge for when the economy 321 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:20.359 is not so good. So but it does feel it 322 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:23.640 feels like it's just another complication on top of the 323 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.200 relationship you have to build with your agent ahead of time, 324 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.039 and another opportunity for people to take advantage of other people. 325 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.759 Lara thoughts, Yeah, what do you think of an agent 326 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.200 who sent you an invoice for a line at it? 327 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:43.960 Or well, if I had gone into that relationship with 328 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.880 awareness obviously, not if it got sprung on me. And 329 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:50.480 also is that a condition to being taken on as 330 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.519 a client. What if they're just doing some editing on 331 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:57.920 the side. Agents are very savvy about what's selling, what 332 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.519 publishers are looking for. I can bring that expertise to 333 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:05.799 a manuscript and say, hey, I'm available for an edit 334 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:08.480 for this amount of money. I can bring this expertise 335 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.599 to your project and help you out. I think that's 336 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:16.359 completely fine, But if it was again, it would feel 337 00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:21.319 more like charging a potential client if they say, if 338 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:23.039 you want me to read that, you're going to have 339 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.119 to pay me this reading fee. And we've really warned 340 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.440 against that in the past, and so that starts to 341 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:33.039 set off for me some kind of an alarm bell. 342 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.480 But maybe we're just I don't know. Maybe that's where 343 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:36.960 we're moving and we're going to have to get used 344 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:37.680 to it. I don't know. 345 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.359 Yeah, I'm worried that all my thoughts on this are 346 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.400 just a sign of age. But you know how I 347 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:50.839 feel about publishers who want a charge a fee for 348 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.279 one reason or another. Up front, I tell I tell 349 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.000 our students to run, don't. That's not what a real 350 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:03.039 publisher does. And similar this feels like something not a 351 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.799 real publisher does. I think there have been agencies that 352 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:11.240 charged for edits or even forgiving opinions on manuscripts, but 353 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:17.119 you know that's probably wasn't in the code of ethics, 354 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:18.200 and this is going to be. 355 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:20.880 Yeah, I

don't know it. 356 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:27.240 But I don't want people to starve to death either. Yeah, yeah, 357 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:31.279 all right. In Craft Corner, our guest this time is 358 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:36.160 Jeff Provine, who has written many nonfiction books, and comic 359 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:42.319 books and much more. He's discussing nonfiction research used for fiction. 360 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:44.519 Take it away, Jeff. 361 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:48.759 Craft Corner. 362 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.839 Hey, y'all, I'm Jeff Provide, local author who's done a 363 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.400 lot of fiction and nonfiction. I might have seen some 364 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.000 of my nonfiction works around, such as Haunted Oaklhoma City, 365 00:20:57.079 --> 00:20:59.839 a collection of spooky stories and history all around the metro, 366 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.759 and I am going to have Haunted Stillwater published September fifteenth, 367 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:06.279 so keep an eye out for that if you like 368 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.200 that spooky stuff. I want to talk about how this 369 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.279 nonfiction research has turned into a really great source of 370 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:19.240 ideas for fiction. For example, after I did the Campus 371 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:23.000 Ghosts of Norman, all about spooky stories around OU, I 372 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.400 had a story talking about the library ghost published in 373 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:30.079 the newspaper, which is kind of that fun take on 374 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:33.359 here's the legends and then what happens when we experience it. 375 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:35.839 Like a lot of folks, whenever I run across on 376 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:39.599 the cool, I keep packed full of things and notebooks. 377 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:42.960 So what I want to talk about is ghost Hollow. 378 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.400 Despite having lived almost my whole life in Oklahoma, I 379 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.240 had never heard this story. But just south of Stillwater 380 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.039 there's a little creek running up in what's called Ghost Hollow, 381 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.720 which I didn't know we had haullers this far west, 382 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.880 but sure enough, it's a very narrow ravine. It's all 383 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.400 covered in trees. I got a chance to go on 384 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.680 a jeep tour through it in the middle of August, 385 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:09.920 which Oklahoma's hot, it's muggy, but right there plunge temperatures 386 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:10.880 it was so freezing. 387 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:11.480 Was weird. 388 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.480 So the legend of Ghost hollows that in eighteen seventy 389 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.319 one a young lady was running off with her boo 390 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.160 and her father didn't want her to, so he shot

391 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.440 at them and ended up hitting her. And since she 392 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.240 was only seventeen at the time, every seventeen years there's 393 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:31.079 been another violent murder there. They've been well documented. Sometimes 394 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:36.680 it's motorcycle accidents, sometimes it's thefts. Sometimes it's mob justice 395 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.880 where people grab some horse thieves and hung them on 396 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:42.519 the old hanging tree. So with so much going on 397 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.839 just right there, it already starts spurring story ideas. These 398 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.519 could obviously be like some Stephen King horror type. Right, 399 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.640 it's just this isolated location where all kinds of bad 400 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:56.000 things happen over and over again. Just those bad places 401 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.720 he talks about, or you could take a little bit 402 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.720 lighter with a supernatural You see the woman who's said 403 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.480 to be there, walking all glowing in white, wearing a 404 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.599 burial ground, going across the river before she disappears, and 405 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:11.359 it could be the characters are trying to figure out 406 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:13.279 who is this person and how can we lay her 407 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:16.400 to rest or as part of your world building. It 408 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:18.599 could just be a corner of your urban fantasy where 409 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.599 people get out of the town and into something a 410 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:26.519 little amiss that seems natural on the surface, but as 411 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:29.480 they get closer, they see the lights floating over the streams, 412 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.319 or they hear the calls of familiar voices out in 413 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:35.480 the wilderness that draw them into the trees and then 414 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.160 never to be seen again. So all these different things 415 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.240 could fit within whatever story you're trying to make. So 416 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.519 keep your eyes open and keep your ears open, and 417 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:46.400 you never know what's out there that you can find, 418 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:48.079 and you never know what story it's going to end 419 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:48.359 up in. 420 00:23:53.960 --> 00:24:04.680 Thanks Jeff, and now let's talk to Letitia Gomez. Latitia Gomez, 421 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:06.039 Welcome to the podcast. 422 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:08.839 Hi, thank you for having me today. 423 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:14.000 Our pleasure. Okay, traditional first question, if you could offer 424 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:17.000 writers one piece of advice. What would it be. 425 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:21.400 To do some heavy duty soul searching and decide what 426 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.759 kind of writer you want to be. Do you want 427 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:26.359 to be a one book wonder or do you want 428 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.119 to be a career bankable author. 429 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:31.640 Now, I would assume most people want to be a 430 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:39.160 career bankable So what are you trying to inspire people 431 00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:42.720 with their or send a message? 432 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:44.039 Uh? 433 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.720 The message is that if you want to be a 434 00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:52.359 career bankable author, you're in for the long haul. And 435 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:58.880 so you know you're not just happy with taking one 436 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:02.160 advance and going to the bank with it, that you 437 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:06.240 really do want to make a career of writing fiction 438 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:08.440 or no fiction, whatever it is. 439 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:10.359 You really you get a lot of people who say, 440 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.440 I just want to write one book. I just want 441 00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:14.519 to have a book with my name on the spine, 442 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.400 on the coffee table. I mean, I would assume everybody 443 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:18.160 wants a career. 444 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.359 You know, I feel that every person has at least 445 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:27.839 one book in them, right, I really do. I think 446 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:32.519 that most authors want to write more than one book. Right, 447 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.559 But if they don't play their cards right, and I'm 448 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:42.720 talking about not creativity wise, but business wise, that they 449 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:46.440 can become one book wonders if they you know, it's 450 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:47.759 not their intention. 451 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:48.759 If you don't up. 452 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.200 Yeah, but that's what happens sometimes. 453 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:55.000 Yeah, I've seen that too. So let's turn back the 454 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.720 pages a little bit. When did you or how did 455 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.400 you first get interested in books? 456 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.640 Wow? Okay, Well I have always been interested in the 457 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.799 written word, you know, growing up. I mean the first 458 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.279 book I read was The Bible, which is the best 459 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:11.920 collection of short stories I've ever read. So I've been 460 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.160 a very early reader. And my interest not just in books, 461 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.359 but in publishing really started back in the early nineties. 462 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.559 I actually have worked in different facets of publishing. So 463 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.440 in the early nineties I started my

publishing career as 464 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:32.680 a newspaper publisher. That was back in the early days 465 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:36.680 before you know, when the Internet was new, social media 466 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.599 wasn't really existent. It was just good old fashion journalism 467 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:46.960 telling stories the good old fashion way. And so that's 468 00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.960 how I first got interested in publishing. Then I moved 469 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.759 on to doing magazine writing work, and then I decided 470 00:26:54.799 --> 00:26:57.839 to write a novel while I was pregnant with my 471 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:02.240 first child, and I just didn't yeah, well, you know, 472 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.599 I wanted to produce life inside and life on the 473 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:09.799 page right, and so I, you know, so I wrote 474 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.200 a book and that was you know, you know, that 475 00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.079 was the first experience that I had as an author, 476 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.680 as a writer, and I ended up selling that book 477 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:24.400 on my own to a publisher. And then and then 478 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.519 I had, you know, and then I had to I 479 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.599 had two children, and I wanted to have the h 480 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.039 the luxury of being able to stay home and raise 481 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:35.720 them myself, and so I started a literary agency back 482 00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:36.839 in two thousand and seven. 483 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:42.519 Mm hmm. And now you're working both as an editor 484 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:49.000 for a major publishing house and as an agent. Does that, well, 485 00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:52.240 which came first? Did the publishing job come first? No? 486 00:27:52.680 --> 00:28:00.160 It was the the the agency, yes, so yeah. But 487 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:02.960 but my story, I kind of have a full circle 488 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.880 story where, you know, I wrote my first novel and 489 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.079 then I didn't have an agent at the time, and 490 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.799 one day I came across an ad from a New 491 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:18.599 York publisher that was advertising the launch of a new book, Imprint. 492 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.960 It was a book Imprint of that was going to 493 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:28.200 publish romance novels written by Latina women for Latina women, 494 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:32.599 and so it was an open call for submissions. So I, 495 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:35.480 you know, I wrote my novel, and I said, look, 496 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:37.720 I've got nothing else to lose. I'm going to send 497 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.599 it my manuscript. I send in my manuscript. About a 498 00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:43.759 month later, I received a call from the acquiring editor 499 00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:46.400 of this imprint and said, I got your novel. It's 500 00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:49.039 a solid novel. We'd like to make an offer to you. 501 00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:51.799 Do you have an agent? I said no, Well, this 502 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:56.000 publisher was willing to, you know, to work with me 503 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.839 even though I didn't have an agent back in the 504 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:04.000 early two thousands, and so my novel was published. And 505 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:09.720 you know, fast forward about twenty five years later down 506 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:13.720 the road, when I was ready to make the transition 507 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:18.319 from being a literary agent to an acquisition editor, I 508 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:24.519 saw another ad from from the same publisher that published 509 00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:28.119 me twenty five years ago, looking for an editorial director 510 00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:32.039 for their Imperor. And guess who they hired. They hired. 511 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:35.079 That was meant to be, obviously. 512 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.160 I think so. I think so that has. 513 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.960 Never create any like conflicts of interest because you're kind 514 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.119 of wearing two different hats at different times. 515 00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:48.279 It does, it can, and it does. Okay, So the 516 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.400 reason that I had my dream job was to always 517 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.319 be an acquisition editor. But back in the early two thousands. 518 00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:58.720 Not too many publishers were open to hiring editors on 519 00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:02.799 a remote basis. It was an until after COVID that 520 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.200 that whole world opened up. Uh. And then so my 521 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:09.240 children grew up, you know, they went to college. I 522 00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:11.559 did my job as a mom, and so I was 523 00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:14.839 ready to make that transition. And it's a transition that 524 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.119 is made a lot in the business. You have acquisition 525 00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:24.400 editors who become literary agents and vice versa. Uh, it 526 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.119 really takes the same skill set from I truly believe 527 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.319 that a good literary agent can make a good acquisition editor, 528 00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:34.920 and a good acquisition editor can make it can be 529 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.160 a very good literary agent. So the roles are interchangeable. 530 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.079 I was just ready to make that change, and so 531 00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:46.400 I did. I was hired, you know, to run an 532 00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:49.960 imprint for Kensington. It's an imprint that is now twenty 533 00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:54.079 five years old. But and they knew that I was 534 00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:57.839 a literary agent coming

in from the start. So, but 535 00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:04.160 what my special was championing the voices of color or 536 00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.279 those voices that had always had a hard time of 537 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.000 finding representation. And so that was particularly the skill set 538 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:16.119 they were looking for. And so, you know, but my 539 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.440 you know, I had reached that fork in the road 540 00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:24.920 where I had spent two decades building my agency because 541 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.160 I started it back in two thousand and seven, probably 542 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:29.839 the worst time in the to do it, because we 543 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.200 were going through that terrible recession. I was not I 544 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.240 was Texas based, I was not based in New York 545 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:41.240 or in LA You know, I had a lot of 546 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:44.759 you know, a lot of things against me, and so 547 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:48.880 I felt conflicted because although I did want to take 548 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.160 on my dream job of being an acquisition editor, but 549 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.160 I didn't want to lose my agency either. But I 550 00:31:56.200 --> 00:31:59.279 knew that I couldn't do both. So what I did 551 00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:01.720 is I asked my husband and my son if they 552 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:05.759 would take over the financial duties of the agency, and 553 00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:09.279 then I hired a couple of agents to represent under 554 00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:14.440 my banner. And you know, I stepped away from it, 555 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:18.559 you know, so that to avoid any conflict of interest 556 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:23.839 and and to be able to excel in my role 557 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:27.519 as editorial director, because I mean it was that that 558 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:31.160 was monopolizing my whole time anyway. So that's how I did. 559 00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:34.119 Thought you had some family that was willing to kind 560 00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:38.799 of step up and assist with that, right, right, Are 561 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:42.839 you able to tell us about some of your success sports. 562 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:50.079 Yeah, sure, sure, okay, all right, Well I'll start off 563 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:54.680 with the the the acquisition editor side. 564 00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:54.920 Right. 565 00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:02.440 So, one of the novels that I acquired and was 566 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:06.119 recently published in February of this year, is a novel 567 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:11.599 called Burned Down Master's House by Clay King. That novel 568 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:13.920 I felt was special the minute I got it, I 569 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.359 got it in right, but it was it was an 570 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:21.720 uphill battle to get approval to acquire the novel. 571 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:22.039 Right. 572 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.759 What a lot of authors don't understand, and this is 573 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.759 really a really brutal, honest truth that I'm going to 574 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.519 reveal right here, right now, is that one acquisition editor 575 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:39.839 alone does not have the power to acquire a book, right. 576 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:40.880 Yeah. 577 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:45.240 The decision to acquire a book is a group decision. 578 00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:51.359 The acquisition editor is just the editor who got the project, 579 00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:54.000 who loved the project, who's going to go to bat 580 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:58.119 for the project, but not necessarily going to hit a 581 00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:01.640 home run with it, because that acquisition editor has to 582 00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:03.640 convince a whole group of people. 583 00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:06.720 A marketing team, and write whoever. 584 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:10.519 Right Right. Sometimes when I'm doing writing conferences, I like 585 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:15.239 to use this analogy is that the acquisite the publications 586 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:21.760 board are the parents, right, the acquisition editor is their child. 587 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:26.800 And so an acquisition editor gets a piece of candy, right, 588 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:29.400 or a manuscript that they really fall in love with 589 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:31.800 it they feel that they must have and they go 590 00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:34.719 to the parents during the meeting and they say, hey, 591 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:39.280 Mom and dad, I've got this piece of candy. It's 592 00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:41.760 such a great piece of candy. Can I have it, 593 00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:45.599 and then explain the reasons why they should let you 594 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:49.159 have this piece of candy? Right? And so what happens 595 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:54.119 is either the you know, the parents will say, well, yeah, yeah, 596 00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:56.360 I can see this is a really good piece of candy. 597 00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:00.960 You could have it. Leticia, right, or if if if 598 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.159 the board just you know, if if the board, which 599 00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:07.519 are comprised of both you know, your editor, your editor peers, 600 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.679 the sales and marketing people, they'll say, no, this is 601 00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.280 not a good piece of candy. It's going to give 602 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:16.320 you lots of cavities. You can't have it, right. So 603 00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:20.079 that's how it really is, you know. So with this novel, 604 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.559 you know, I did not get approval to acquire it first, 605 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:29.239 I did not, but but I kept working. I didn't 606 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:29.800 let it go.

607 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:31.159 Uh. 608 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:33.239 You know, one of my nicknames that some of my 609 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.800 clients gave me as a literary agent was I was 610 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.639 a pit bull and skirt. I just when I when 611 00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:41.280 I found something and I sucked my teeth into it, 612 00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:43.519 I would not let it go. So I could not 613 00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:47.360 let this novel go. Uh And eventually, you know, I 614 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.320 had to brainstorm with the agent and the author and saying, look, 615 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.920 we can't acquire it as is, but if you were 616 00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:58.000 to make these changes, I might be able to get 617 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:01.760 it green lit for acquisition. And so the author was 618 00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.920 open to it. I acquired it, It was released, and 619 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:09.119 it hit the New York Times Bestseller List and the 620 00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:10.559 USA Today Bestseller List. 621 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.039 Awesome. So that's yeah, that's the best. What a great feeling. 622 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:18.280 Yeah, that's one of the you know, so that and 623 00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.679 so I feel like, you know, a lot of the 624 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:25.480 books that I acquired were very important books. So I 625 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.119 feel like the list that I built for Defina in 626 00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:31.880 three years, three and a half years was a very 627 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.440 strong list. So I consider that to be you know, 628 00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:40.440 feathers in my cap you know. So, like the first 629 00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:43.000 year I did thirty titles for them, the second year 630 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:47.880 twenty five, the third year twenty one. But you know, 631 00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:52.960 and so so that. You know, that is what I 632 00:36:53.079 --> 00:37:00.199 measure success as an acquisition editor now as literary agent. Uh, 633 00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:04.519 I feel successful because I had I was able to 634 00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:11.239 make to get many debut authors their first traditional publishing deal, right, 635 00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:15.760 So I loved working with Hurdle. Yeah, it is, it is, 636 00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:19.599 you know, that's the uh, you know, debut authors, it's 637 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.800 very tough for them to find representation, it's very tough 638 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:26.239 for them to get a traditional publishing deal. So I 639 00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.880 did a lot of debut authors, and the majority of 640 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:33.239 them being voices of color. So I'm very very proud 641 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:38.760 of that, and I've had very you know, very interesting experiences. 642 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:42.199 One of them I'm actually going to incorporate into one

643 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:46.320 of the presentations that I'll be giving at Writer con 644 00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:48.440 So I don't know if I should rebal it here 645 00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:49.519 or way. 646 00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.239 Either way, were okay. 647 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:57.400 Well, it's it's a story of a woman that I 648 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.719 represented her young adult model. Okay, I won't give the 649 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:04.559 full spiel that I tried to give at the conference, 650 00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:09.000 but what made this experience really meaningful to me is 651 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:13.639 that it was about a young adult adult novel called Shelter, 652 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:17.119 which takes place in a domestic shelter. So I thought 653 00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:19.440 that was a very interesting setting in itself, and it 654 00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:23.480 features a young male protagonist who summons up the courage 655 00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:29.480 to stand up to his violet father and remove himself 656 00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.039 and his mother and sister and take him to go 657 00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:36.320 live in a shelter. And Patricia was the reason she 658 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.360 decided to write this novel is because she had volunteered 659 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.440 to work at shelters for twenty years, so it's a 660 00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.719 very important part of her life. And so what happened 661 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.280 was we were in the middle of negotiating the book 662 00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:54.239 deal when she died suddenly, you know, Well she didn't 663 00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:58.599 die suddenly. She had cervical cancer, you know, and she 664 00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:03.400 died from complications from that. But despite you know, her 665 00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:09.920 her unfortunate passing away, I was still able to continue 666 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:14.599 negotiating the deal and finalize the deal and the novel 667 00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:19.159 was and the novel was actually published. So so I 668 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:24.320 don't measure sometimes I don't measure my successes by by 669 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:27.199 them be by it being a project that generated a 670 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:31.639 lot of money. Sometimes the most successful ones are, you know, 671 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:34.559 experiences like the one that I had with Patricia. 672 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:37.840 That's so important and and that's going to connect with 673 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:41.679 somebody somewhere and it's going to be very, very meaningful 674 00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.880 to them. I believe it. 675 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:49.199 Well, see, I feel that, you know, books, every book 676 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:56.840 to me is a dream realized many people. They dream 677 00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.079 of publishing a book. And it's not just a publishing 678 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:01.119 a book, but they I I think it's it's it's 679 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:04.639 they want to leave some kind of legacy behind, you know, 680 00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:07.119 they want they have something that they want to share 681 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:11.280 to the world, and by writing a book and having 682 00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:15.400 it published, you know, they kind of get the opportunity 683 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:17.599 to immortalize themselves in a way. 684 00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:21.599 Yeah, I could say that. Yeah, Well, you've shared some 685 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:26.760 about kind of the workings of the publishing industry today. 686 00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.920 How has that changed since you first started working in it? 687 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:35.599 Okay, well it's it's it's changed a lot, right, So, uh, 688 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:39.519 first of all, it's it's it's you know, there's been 689 00:40:39.559 --> 00:40:44.320 good changes and there's been bad changes. The publishing industry 690 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:48.440 does seem to be the traditional publishing industry, let me 691 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:54.559 rephrase that does seem to be shrinking because of the 692 00:40:54.599 --> 00:41:00.159 ability that authors have now to publish independently. Sure, so 693 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:05.360 that is really cutting into the action of and the 694 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:12.119 profitability factor for traditional publishing houses because everybody is publishing 695 00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.880 these days and that and I think it's human nature. 696 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:20.920 People have something to say, whether whether it's verbally or 697 00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:25.920 in written form, and there's so many ways now than 698 00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:29.880 ever that people can get their message across. So what 699 00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:35.199 has changed is the advent of social media, right, which 700 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:39.280 which you know, which now traditional publishers really take a 701 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:42.920 lot of stock in social media authors who are on 702 00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:47.599 social media because, you know, because it is the most 703 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:54.559 cost effective way to market a book these days, exactly exactly, 704 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:58.000 and so you know, there's a far wider reach. So 705 00:41:58.199 --> 00:42:00.960 that has changed, I mean, and believe it or not, 706 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.320 when I first started as a literary agent, everything was 707 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:10.280 still done you know, through snail mail, right, hard copies 708 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:14.360 of manuscripts being mailed, you know. And so when the 709 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:19.239 publishing industry world opened up electronically, it just really really opened, 710 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:24.760 you know, illuminated the industry in so many ways, and 711 00:42:24.840 -->

00:42:27.639 it was so much easier, you know, to go about 712 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:29.679 publishing and getting published. 713 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:30.960 Absolutely. 714 00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:36.119 Also another change is the creation of so many genres 715 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:36.920 and subgenres. 716 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:40.000 Oh, yes, that's a good point. I hadn't thought about that. 717 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.960 Yeah, they didn't, you know, back in the day, it 718 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:47.320 was just romance, right, that's it right now. It's roman 719 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:51.440 to see now, it's it's you know, you know, it's 720 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:56.639 all these creations of the different ropes you can find. 721 00:42:56.440 --> 00:43:00.800 Your your very specific audience that way exactly. 722 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.079 And the and I think it's because the the you know, 723 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.800 there's more diversity now in terms of authors in publishing. Uh. 724 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:12.039 And the reason I feel that there's so many genres 725 00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:15.960 and subgenres is because it now because publishing is now 726 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:21.320 reflecting what the real world is like in terms of 727 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:26.360 we are you know, we come from different backgrounds. I mean, 728 00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:31.920 you know, there's so many you know, nationalities that are 729 00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:35.360 races that are writing, so many different points of view. 730 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:41.119 It's a melting pot. And I think that these subgenres 731 00:43:41.559 --> 00:43:45.880 are a result of that of of of the diversity. 732 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:48.679 So even though you can look at that and feel 733 00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:51.639 a little overwhelmed, really is a good thing. It's a 734 00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:55.920 good thing. Yeah, yes, Well, speaking of those increases increases 735 00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:03.559 in genre and moving to electronic submissions, I suspect you're 736 00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:07.719 probably like most agents that we've spoken with, and receive 737 00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:12.800 more submissions than you maybe ever imagined that you would. 738 00:44:13.039 --> 00:44:15.360 Could you talk a little bit about how you deal 739 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:20.119 with the presently crushing number of submissions that you receive. 740 00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.360 Yes, so you know, I've been at it for a 741 00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:26.199 very long time, so it you know it. So I 742 00:44:26.280 --> 00:44:31.039 get submissions, you know, through my website. I also get 743 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:35.719 submissions from you know, writing conferences, right, you know, I 744 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:39.039 do a lot of writing conferences. I feel like it's 745 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:43.320 it's very important. There's a lot of editors, acquisition editors 746 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:47.639 and literary agents that do not like going to writing 747 00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:50.320 conferences because it is a lot of work. It is 748 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:54.960 work before, during, and after. But I think it's very 749 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:57.760 rewarding and that is still I think the best place 750 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:02.119 is to meet talented new authors. 751 00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:03.039 Uh. 752 00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:06.280 So I you know, so I get submission you know, 753 00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:08.800 A lot of the bulk of my submissions come from 754 00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:14.280 my website as an agent, also from writing conferences. And 755 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:17.159 believe it or not, when you're in when you've been 756 00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:18.840 in the business as long as I have, I get 757 00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:23.079 a lot of word of mouth referrals. Interesting, Yeah, I do. 758 00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:26.400 I'll get a lot of a because I really spoiled 759 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.960 my authors to death. I do. I do. Uh, And 760 00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:36.079 they like the relationship that I have with them, and 761 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:41.360 so they they tell other other authors. So a lot 762 00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.360 of my business does come from from word of mouth referrals. 763 00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:45.960 Okay, that's fantastic. 764 00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:49.000 What about your inbox, though, how do you how do 765 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.440 you weed through all the submissions? Like do you spend 766 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:54.840 a certain number of hours every day trying to work 767 00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:55.679 through all of those? 768 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.000 Okay, So as a literary agent, I did, right, I 769 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.760 would do those first in the morning, right, I would 770 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.760 look at submissions first thing in the morning, because I've 771 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:10.960 gotten some sleep. You know, my brain isn't musshit, I 772 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:13.960 have a good cup of coffee in my hand. I'm 773 00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:17.159 more open minded, right than if I were to look 774 00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:22.320 at submissions at four o'clock in the afternoon eight nine 775 00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:27.159 o'clock at night. Right, So you know I look for 776 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.840 you know, so I try to look at submissions when 777 00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:37.599 I'm happy, when I'm well fed, when I've had coffee, right, right, 778 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:42.880 you know, Okay, because you know and and so, and 779 00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:46.440 you do have to make snap decisions about you know, what, 780 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.320 which ones you want to give more time to, and 781 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:52.119 which ones you want to pass on right away? Right. 782 00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:55.679 I do feel it is important

to try to answer 783 00:46:56.199 --> 00:47:01.280 every submission, whether you're answering positively and negatively. Because I'll 784 00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:06.280 tell you what, it takes real courage to put your 785 00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:11.000 work out there, and I think that courage should be 786 00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:15.519 rewarded with kindness, not with brutality, not with saying your 787 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.920 work sucks. You know, you've got to be nice to people, 788 00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:23.000 sure you really do? You know, authors can be very 789 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:30.440 sensitive and so you know, yeah, yeah, but no, it's 790 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.760 it's you know, as an age, as a literary agent, 791 00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:35.280 it is you know that is probably the most important 792 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.000 part of the job, is looking for new authors to represent, 793 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:42.840 So it is it is a balancing act, right, But 794 00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:46.639 then you also have to take care of the authors 795 00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.719 that you do have, right, So you don't want to 796 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:53.679 be taking in new authors while you're older, your your 797 00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:57.440 authors are slipping out the backboard, right, so you you 798 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:00.239 have it has to be a very nice balancing act. 799 00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:03.199 And so you know, I I, you know, try to 800 00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:06.880 get through every submission. A lot of my decisions sometimes 801 00:48:06.920 --> 00:48:09.519 it is based on the query letter. Yeah, you know, 802 00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:12.000 it's it's very important. If I don't like the query letter, 803 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:16.199 I'm probably not going to ask to see more. It's 804 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:19.800 I would, you know, because it is physically impossible for 805 00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:22.960 literary agents to yet to say yes to everything unless 806 00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:26.840 they have forty eight hours in their day. Unless that 807 00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:30.599 no one, no, you know, and I know that authors 808 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:39.400 get frustrated because you know, agents don't answer right, But really, 809 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:42.400 all the agent is trying to do is be responsible. 810 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:45.880 Because if we say yes to everybody, do you think 811 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:48.760 everybody's going to get good representation? 812 00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:50.840 No? 813 00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:53.840 So sometimes the responsible thing to do as a literary 814 00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:57.039 agent is to say, look, I'm sorry, you know your 815 00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.760 work sounds interesting, but I just cannot pursue it at 816 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.519 this time time, right right now. As as an acquisition editor, 817 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.400 you a lot of people have

a misconception that all 818 00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:16.280 acquisition editors do is just acquire new books. That's just 819 00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:22.400 a very small name. Yes it's in the name Laura, 820 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:27.440 but that's just a small portion of their responsibilities. Their 821 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:34.599 responsibilities is to get every title on their list down, 822 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:41.639 an assemblying line down, the editorial process on time. Really, 823 00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:45.639 as the bulk of an acquisition editor's day is day 824 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:50.679 to day project management. That's what it is. It's there's 825 00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:55.239 always some fire to put out, there's always a problem 826 00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:59.280 that needs to be solved, and so that's why most 827 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:05.239 acquisitions editors they're due their reading when not during your 828 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:10.679 normal nine to five hours. Yeah they do it at night. Yeah, 829 00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:16.119 they do it on the weekends. You know, they do 830 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:19.480 it on their way to the airport while their uber 831 00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:24.800 drives them around. Yeah, they have to carve out extra 832 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:27.559 time to read new submissions. 833 00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:33.920 That's very interesting. Wow, we are we are really enlightening us. 834 00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.280 So then you also go to so yeah, so while 835 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:39.559 you're driving to the airport and your uber and reading 836 00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:42.559 new submissions on your way to conferences, so that you 837 00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:47.159 can take some pitches. Yeah, let's talk about pitches. What 838 00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:49.599 do you think is the most successful approach to pitching? 839 00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:51.840 So while you're while you're doing all of that, what's 840 00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:54.840 your hope when you arrive, what are you hoping that 841 00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:57.239 someone will bring to you and how they will bring 842 00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:57.679 it to you? 843 00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:05.719 Okay, well, I hope to find something truly unique that 844 00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:11.199 hasn't been done to death before, from an author who 845 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:16.920 who has a strong work ethic, who has a sense 846 00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:21.000 of humor, because in this business, oh my god, you 847 00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:24.960 really need the comic relief sometimes, absolutely, you know, But 848 00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:28.760 I'm but I'm not really I'm looking see pitches. I 849 00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:32.679 think should always just be a casual conversation. I love that, 850 00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:38.400 you know, just just having a memorable conversation with someone. Yeah, 851 00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:42.199 I mean isn't that how sometimes we have met our 852 00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:46.559 best friends in life, is we had a first great 853 00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:51.280 conversation right about a topic that was of interest to 854 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:55.159 both of us. Right, So, you know, so authors just 855 00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:58.960 need to to just get comfortable, you know, when they're 856 00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:04.639 contemplating pitch. It's not they're they're not being you know, 857 00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:07.000 interviewed for a job. I mean, well, they are being 858 00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.679 interviewed for the job of a published author, but but 859 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:13.039 not in the in this it's not a committee senate 860 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:17.199 hearing me, right, Yeah, it's not. It's just a chance 861 00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:21.840 to have a meaningful conversation with a book publishing professional 862 00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:26.480 with experience about your work, and that means just being yourself. 863 00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:31.039 I really I've never met an author who I did 864 00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:35.480 who was not an interesting person. Authors are interesting people. 865 00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:40.960 That's why they're right, Okay, not you know, not everybody. 866 00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:44.000 And usually very nice. Again, not everybody, but usually very nice. 867 00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:48.280 Right, you know. So after writer con, I'm just looking 868 00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:53.760 forward to meeting uh, you know, very interesting authors who 869 00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:58.519 are also interesting human beings who have written something that 870 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:03.679 they feel confident about, that they feel strongly about. Uh, 871 00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:07.559 and uh, you know, that's what I'm looking forward to. 872 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:09.880 That's what I always look for in pages. It's just 873 00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:13.639 giving an author a chance in the world. 874 00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:18.840 Yeah, specific genres still, oh yes, yes, I think So 875 00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:23.639 are there specific genres? Can you remind us that you're 876 00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:24.920 that you're hoping to acquire? 877 00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:27.679 All right? So so you know I'm a little bit 878 00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:33.079 you know, uh uh, I have very uh discriminating taste. 879 00:53:33.199 --> 00:53:35.840 I love different things. I'm an out of the box 880 00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:41.320 acquisition editor. All right. So, uh but my favorite genres 881 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:46.679 are horror, believe it or not, right, yeah, horror. One 882 00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:51.000 of the most successful books that I've acquired at Defina 883 00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:56.199 is a trilogy called Blood Slave The Blood Blood Saga, 884 00:53:56.519 --> 00:54:00.119 And the first book is called Blood Slaves. Uh. And 885 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:03.320 this book is what

really turned me into a horror fan, 886 00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:09.000 right and I and yeah, and it's it's a very 887 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.480 interesting book because you know, we're all familiar with the 888 00:54:12.519 --> 00:54:16.039 Tale of the Vampire, right, you know the vampire originated 889 00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:19.960 in Europe, YadA, YadA, YadA. Right. But what made this 890 00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:24.320 book very not controversial, but very interesting and unique. It's 891 00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:28.480 written by a screenwriter and actor named Marcus Redmond. But 892 00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:33.360 what he did was he reimagined the vampire tale where 893 00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:40.960 the vampire actually originated in ancient Africa, okay, okay, And 894 00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:48.000 it was a clan of vampires who became extinct because 895 00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:52.199 you know, the the people they were, you know, drinking 896 00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:58.239 their blood, wasn't There was a plague infestation and that, 897 00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.320 you know, and so that that started killing off the 898 00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:04.920 klan of vampires until there was only one sole survivor 899 00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:10.519 who somehow survived that the different generations in different centuries 900 00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:14.360 and ended up in a slave plantation in north in 901 00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:19.599 Carolina in the year seventeen ten. He arrived at this plantation, 902 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:25.159 he befriended slaves who were set up with being oppressed 903 00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:27.960 and set up with being slaves, and he starts turning 904 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:34.239 them into vampires so that they create a rebellion against 905 00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:39.440 the plantation owners, right and so it's so it was 906 00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:43.119 a very interesting take. It's kind of like an alternative 907 00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:46.280 history spent to what would have happened if the slaves 908 00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:50.079 were able to emancipate themselves before the Civil War. Because 909 00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:55.719 they were, they became a plan of vampires, right and 910 00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:58.679 and it's so it's a very interesting concept. But it 911 00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:02.119 but the reason Marcus wrote the book was because he 912 00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:06.519 wrote it right after the murder of George Floyd. He 913 00:56:06.679 --> 00:56:10.760 was very upset, as many people were, and he said 914 00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:13.199 that one morning, you know, he woke up feeling just 915 00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:17.239 very angry, and his wife told him it wouldn't it 916 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:21.239 be something if if you know, if if you could 917 00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:25.159 if the if black people go back in time and 918 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:27.679 be because he was writing a vampire story, but it 919 00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:30.719 wasn't coming along for him. He says, whenn't if the 920 00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:33.000 vampires were if they were able to go back in 921 00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:37.599 time and fix everything from the very beginning, right So, so, 922 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:41.199 you know, so in horror is a very very popular genre. 923 00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:45.119 More and more in prints, especially in prints of the 924 00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:50.480 Big Five, are very interested in horror. I also love 925 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:55.519 speculative fiction. That's one of the more popular new genres 926 00:56:55.559 --> 00:57:04.199 is speculative fiction. Also magical realism, novels that have magical realism. 927 00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:09.000 Of course romanticy. Everybody knows how big Romanticy is right now. 928 00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:14.840 I still love historicals, I really do. I think there 929 00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:17.760 will always be a demand for historical I have the 930 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:23.039 utmost respect for authors who write historical historical because not 931 00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:26.119 I don't think I think a lot a lot of 932 00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:28.440 people can write a story, but very few people can 933 00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:34.000 really write an evocative historical story. And I love historical 934 00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:36.480 novels that are based on real people and events. 935 00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:43.039 Yeah, Tisha, this has just been a fabulous interview. Thank 936 00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:45.480 you for doing this, and thank you for coming to 937 00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:49.239 writer Con. I think you're going to really plus this 938 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:51.400 conference some thanks. 939 00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:53.480 Look forward to seeing you. Well. 940 00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:56.760 I'm a social butterfly, and so you know, to anybody 941 00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:01.360 the plans to attend, do not be afraid to approach nice. 942 00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:05.280 Okay, great, all right, thanks so much, see you soon. 943 00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:07.960 All right, thank you, and I look forward to meeting 944 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:09.119 both of you at the conference. 945 00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:21.880 Yes, like okay, bye bye. 946 00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:28.960 Just one last reminder, the last one of this podcast, anyway, Rod. 947 00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:33.039 Writer Con is Labor Day weekend, September fourth through seven, 948 00:58:33.159 --> 00:58:36.960 Oklahoma City. Laura and I will be there, plus Jesse 949 00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:41.559 will be there, plus about sixty other writers, agents, publishers, 950 00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:44.920 and others in the publishing industry. And I really wish 951 00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:49.519 you'd be there too. So give some thought just for 952 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:52.519 a moment or two, about joining us for writer Con. 953 00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:55.800 I think you'll be really glad that you did. Let 954 00:58:55.800 --> 00:58:58.719 me also remind you that writer Con has its own newsletter, 955 00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:01.920 and you don't want to miss the next issue. We 956 00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:06.639 have wonderful articles written by various authors and agents and 957 00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:10.199 the writer Con family on whatever the breaking issues are, 958 00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:13.800 and that is completely free. Go to substack search for 959 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:18.280 writer Con. Have a Facebook group too, and if you 960 00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:22.039 haven't joined yet, please think about doing. That's totally free 961 00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:23.199 and I'll put a link in. 962 00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:23.800 The show notes. 963 00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:29.880 Okay, until next time, keep writing and remember you cannot 964 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:33.800 fail if you refuse to quit. See you next time.