النص الكامل لحلقة Mark Asch

good feedback on it 30 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,760 there's a link in the description where you can stream it and download it and 31 00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:29,480 When I wanted to share it with this friend of mine, she was like, oh, you know, can I stream it anywhere? 32 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,240 And I was just like, oh, no. 33 00:02:31,420 --> 00:02:33,280 And I was like, and send them all the MP3s. 34 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,020 And I'm like, wait a minute. 35 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:38,720 Let me just ask Codex to build me a beautiful streaming web page. 36 00:02:38,980 --> 00:02:40,260 And, I mean, it's really nice. 37 00:02:41,340 --> 00:02:42,180 It really is. 38 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:43,560 And it works great. 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:43,860 So cool. 40 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,360 So, yeah, just ask for it, and it's done. 41 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,900 There was a track that came out of this called Glass Animal. 42 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:55,660 So far Mark my wife and my friend Kristen said that's their favorite track 43 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:59,400 Yeah, so so there must be something to it 44 00:02:59,650 --> 00:03:04,740 But anyway, then the name when I saw the name I was like, oh that's the perfect name for this like fictitious band 45 00:03:04,890 --> 00:03:06,560 You know, I'm not trying to fool anybody or anything 46 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:10,840 But then I learned that there is a real band called glass animals 47 00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:14,320 Yeah, and they actually had some pretty big success 48 00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:19,440 But you know, they have an S at the end of their name and that's like totally different. So doesn't matter 49 00:03:21,420 --> 00:03:29,160 But anyway, so RAINA wrote all the lyrics and I ran a lot of iterations of these songs. 50 00:03:29,660 --> 00:03:32,420 And very few of them were bad. 51 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,160 Yeah. 52 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,720 But it was just getting stuff that really appealed to me. 53 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:41,820 I did share it with Mark and he did point out that many of the songs are in the same key. 54 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,520 And that's probably the biggest fault on the album. 55 00:03:45,940 --> 00:03:46,260 Yeah. 56 00:03:46,940 --> 00:03:51,840 and a lot of them started out with, you know, like a vocal, like a river ambient vocal, like, 57 00:03:51,980 --> 00:03:59,080 you know, don't, I'm not even going to attempt it, but, but I did trim some of those out. Like 58 00:03:59,140 --> 00:04:03,100 I download the stem, killed the vocal just at the beginning. Cause there was too much of the, 59 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,700 they all, too many started the same way, but I didn't, didn't even realize that there were so 60 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,000 many were in the same key. I might pitch shift. I'm glad you did that. Yeah. What about, what 61 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:15,980 about tempo tempo? Are they generally in the same ballpark too, or what? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. 62 00:04:16,060 --> 00:04:22,060 Yeah. So, like, Glass Animal, that song is quite different from a lot of the other ones. 63 00:04:22,170 --> 00:04:24,820 And, you know, I tried to vary the prompt along the way. 64 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,540 You know, I didn't want the whole album to be exactly the same. 65 00:04:27,610 --> 00:04:32,500 You know, I wanted a mellow song. I wanted a little more, you know, chunky guitar kind of song. 66 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:33,260 Sure. 67 00:04:34,380 --> 00:04:37,380 But anyway, I probably could have done a little better job of that. 68 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,480 But anyway, for me, I can't stop listening to it. I love it. 69 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,960 It's 10 songs, it's 47 minutes, which is like the ideal length for an album for me. 70 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:52,500 And you can do another one, you know, down the road, and all of these AIs are still babies. 71 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,020 Yes, this is the worst it will ever be, as we say all the time on this show. 72 00:04:57,100 --> 00:05:02,800 And when it was all done, then I decided to, I was just like, I'm just going to give it a little bit of analog love. 73 00:05:03,060 --> 00:05:08,500 And I ran it through a piece of gear I've owned for 28 years, made by a company called Manly. 74 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:09,120 It's a compressor. 75 00:05:09,340 --> 00:05:12,080 It's full of tubes and transformers. 76 00:05:12,230 --> 00:05:15,040 And it's like wrapping a warm blanket around it. 77 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,800 And anyway, I'll play a couple of clips, and then we'll get into what Mark's doing. 78 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,140 This is my favorite track on the album. 79 00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:24,500 It's called Little Gods With Matches. 80 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,620 And this was one of the songs that just got me really excited about making a whole bunch of these. 81 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,420 I'll just play like a verse and a chorus. 82 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:30,520 Cheers. 83 00:06:00,500 --> 00:06:04,240 ♪ Walk from somewhere we never should have been ♪ 84 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,040 ♪ Put it in a paper house ♪ 85 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:09,760 ♪ And call the whole thing wind ♪ 86 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,280 ♪ We are bright and reckless ♪ 87 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,820 ♪ Holy fools with dirty hands ♪ 88 00:06:16,060 --> 00:06:18,240 ♪ Drawing maps to heaven ♪ 89 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,640 ♪ And the dust where cities stand ♪ 90 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,639 ♪ We are little guys with matches ♪ 91 00:06:27,140 --> 00:06:31,300 ♪ Dancing near the gasoline ♪ 92 00:06:31,540 --> 00:06:36,280 ♪ Building temples out of thunder ♪ 93 00:06:36,860 --> 00:06:40,980 ♪ Calling it a dream ♪ 94 00:06:42,020 --> 00:06:44,980 ♪ We keep reaching for the heavens ♪ 95 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:47,580 ♪ With our pockets full of sparks ♪ 96 00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:49,680 ♪ Lighting fires just to prove ♪ 97 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,599 ♪

We're not afraid of the dark ♪ 98 00:06:57,060 --> 00:06:57,100 Crazy. 99 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:58,000 Yeah. 100 00:06:58,190 --> 00:06:58,480 Take it. 101 00:06:59,180 --> 00:07:00,060 Just crazy. 102 00:07:00,919 --> 00:07:01,800 Sounds great. 103 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:03,120 And it sounds great, yeah. 104 00:07:03,820 --> 00:07:09,720 And Mark, you had said to me in one of your texts that Suno seems to do a really great 105 00:07:09,860 --> 00:07:12,400 job of, you know, very musical uses of effects. 106 00:07:13,220 --> 00:07:13,480 Mm-hmm. 107 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:14,260 Yeah. 108 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,500 They're not gimmicky. 109 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,920 It's just as conversant with, you know, with the sounds, with the effects, as it is with 110 00:07:22,300 --> 00:07:25,200 melody and with harmony and with rhythm and all the other aspects. 111 00:07:26,380 --> 00:07:31,240 I hadn't even thought about that so much before, but like when it brings when it brings the reverb 112 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:35,160 Way down just to make something really personal for a second 113 00:07:35,510 --> 00:07:41,040 And then you know and then it blasts it out pitch for the chorus and it takes off that that's just one of a hundred 114 00:07:41,540 --> 00:07:47,820 You know million things that it's that it's thinking about every second of the process. How how how? 115 00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:56,360 It's it's mind-blowing and I know this one thing now like when I don't know if it's just on that on that 116 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,780 on the phone app, but it is super fast now. 117 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:01,040 Really? 118 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:01,480 Yeah. 119 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,240 I mean, it's like in 10 seconds, you can start playing it. 120 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:05,140 It's crazy. 121 00:08:05,660 --> 00:08:05,840 All right. 122 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:07,420 I'll give you one more little taste. 123 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,580 This is the song Glass Animal that we were talking about before. 124 00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:24,560 ♪ I'll understand in window light ♪ 125 00:08:25,450 --> 00:08:28,420 ♪ And never leave a trace ♪ 126 00:08:29,020 --> 00:08:34,060 ♪ A little smile, a steady hand ♪ 127 00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:37,840 ♪ A careful kind of grace ♪ 128 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:45,040 But under all that silver Under all that shine 129 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:55,140 There's something pacing softly At the edges of my mind 130 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:03,760 Don't ask me to be easy Don't ask me to be small 131 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,240 I've been still as winter glass 132 00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:12,800 But I can hear the thaw 133 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,100 I'm a glass animal 134 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,800 Breathing on the pain 135 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:27,800 Every little fracture 136 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,680 Learns to love the rain 137 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:37,340 I can look like silence. 138 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,080 I can

move like a flame. 139 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:50,900 But something in the mirror still refuses to be named. 140 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,160 The lyrics, everything. 141 00:09:56,730 --> 00:09:57,280 So good. 142 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:57,980 Yeah. 143 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,280 I think they owe Billie Eilish some royalties, though. 144 00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:09,340 that kind of vocal delivery right up on the mic that's totally her jam isn't it lord or lord 145 00:10:10,339 --> 00:10:17,000 yeah i i was yeah i think lord is uh is probably probably the closer comparison but yeah yeah that 146 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:25,960 song in particular so good though yeah and it it does so much with so little like melodically 147 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:32,780 harmonically like I want to like criticize it for do it but you know for 148 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,200 having so little going on there but it's like a master class in minimalism mm-hmm 149 00:10:37,460 --> 00:10:44,160 the the most fundamental concept in art is probably tension and release so 150 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,660 you're on a thing and then you step away from the thing there's a little and then 151 00:10:48,660 --> 00:10:54,719 you come back to the thing and most of this song is on the main note dome and 152 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,740 and then it goes up a half step and it comes back and you put some drums behind that and it's like 153 00:10:59,740 --> 00:11:06,900 you have this tribal like scary sounding like you know the tension is real and there's 154 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:12,400 just two notes going back and forth i mean it's the jaws theme in a way yeah oh yeah totally 155 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:19,300 and like to that point how many times has that interval been done in music right and it's just 156 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,820 so obvious it's just right there and you know yeah pluck it out of the ether and just play 157 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,180 right and just kind of that's the whole song basically right 158 00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:36,760 yeah yeah that's it that's the essence of it yeah i mean it's amazing i was gonna say there's only 159 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,120 12 notes in the scale but you know on gene to pot train is uh they're using a few more 160 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,999 microtronal notes between the notes yeah yeah they needed more just not pleasing some people yeah 161 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,160 So Mark, is it over? Is it over? 162 00:11:53,860 --> 00:12:01,700 You know, I have been so ardently on one end and then the other end of the spectrum 163 00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:05,280 as I've been trying to wrap my head around all of this stuff. 164 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:08,760 No, it's definitely not over. 165 00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:13,440 I mean, when it comes right down to it, why are we making art in the first place? 166 00:12:14,060 --> 00:12:16,420 We have to. It's just something that we do. 167 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:22,960 birds gotta sing we've been making you know music since you know as long as we've had civilization 168 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,600 for sure and probably even proto civilization or something it's always been there so this is 169 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:36,180 something that we have to do now will we click a button and have the music made for us and does 170 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:41,480 that completely cheapen everything uh yeah probably but i mean i'm still gonna always 171 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:49,160 really relish going to a club and seeing a band play you know seeing other people actually express 172 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:57,620 themselves i keep thinking about the creator side versus the consumer side and on the consumer side 173 00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:05,380 i might not be able to tell that it came from software and on the consumer side if i look in 174 00:13:05,380 --> 00:13:10,759 the clouds and i see a face and that face means something to me well there you go art experience 175 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:16,720 that happened and it doesn't matter what the provenance of the art was on the creator side 176 00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:26,360 as as a composer i'm the only person who knows for sure how much of me is in the art that i made 177 00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:33,820 so i have to be satisfied on my end you know with with whatever tools i used whatever process i made 178 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,899 and whether it met my own standards and stuff i mean i've i've been i've been wrestling with 179 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,280 music and trying to make it do the thing I want it to do for 50 fucking years. 180 00:13:44,010 --> 00:13:49,920 So I will not have anyone judge my use of any tool, no matter what it does, because 181 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:54,860 I could also write that shit out on in notation and arrange it for a string quartet if I really 182 00:13:54,940 --> 00:13:55,260 had to. 183 00:13:56,420 --> 00:14:01,580 So I'm so I'm, you know, I hate the idea of people like just using text prompts and 184 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:02,900 saying, I'm a songwriter now. 185 00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:03,520 Yeah. 186 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,080 But there's, you know, but there's a range. 187 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:13,940 So it's, you know, it's not like a binary question of yes or no, but I think music is not dead and musicality, human musicality is not dead. 188 00:14:14,860 --> 00:14:27,620 Nearly every musician that you run into could listen to anything that Suno produces and take away something useful from it and be influenced in a positive way, not a negative way, a positive way. 189 00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:29,660 So, yeah, I don't think it's over. 190 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,320 I love that you clarified the consumer and the creator side. 191 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,820 And the thing that you touched on when you said you're making music for 50 years and 192 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,300 the joy that is in the friction of it, the joy that's in the productive

struggle of making 193 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,060 music and finally that push and pull, right? 194 00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:50,220 Of you're pushing the music, the music's pushing you back. 195 00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:51,280 It's informing you. 196 00:14:51,310 --> 00:14:53,220 It's saying, no, maybe go here, right? 197 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:54,880 That's the magic, right? 198 00:14:54,950 --> 00:14:56,640 When you're in the midst of it, the flow. 199 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,600 I don't feel good about giving a text prompt to software and having it make something. 200 00:15:03,260 --> 00:15:05,660 Or I could say, Chris, I was thinking about a song that goes like this. 201 00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:06,940 Why don't you write that song for me? 202 00:15:07,060 --> 00:15:08,320 I didn't write that song. 203 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:10,000 And there's no achievement there. 204 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,480 And, you know, how do I feel about the art that I make? 205 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,580 That's the question that I have to answer and I have to wrestle with myself. 206 00:15:18,630 --> 00:15:18,760 Yeah. 207 00:15:18,910 --> 00:15:24,800 I mean, like when I'm listening to this Glass Animal album that I, quote unquote, made, 208 00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:26,620 it's just the end product. 209 00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:28,600 It's just the music that is hitting me. 210 00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:34,600 and I like it because I ran a bunch of these until I got the song that I wanted. 211 00:15:35,050 --> 00:15:38,320 So yeah, the end product makes me happy, 212 00:15:38,510 --> 00:15:44,740 but it definitely lacks the human connection with bands that I get to know 213 00:15:45,390 --> 00:15:48,000 or musicians that I get to know, not personally, 214 00:15:48,270 --> 00:15:52,400 but just through listening to their music and knowing they made it. 215 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,380 That is important to me. 216 00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:57,240 So for me, they're two different things, 217 00:15:57,340 --> 00:16:04,240 But, you know, bottom line, you know, this AI generated music that I curated, I'm enjoying listening to it. 218 00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:05,480 It's a good song. 219 00:16:05,570 --> 00:16:06,040 It's a good song. 220 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:06,600 It's a good song. 221 00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:07,660 Absolutely. 222 00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:09,820 I level what I've heard from this record. 223 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:10,960 Record. 224 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:12,540 Record. 225 00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:13,940 Here we are, old guys. 226 00:16:13,940 --> 00:16:14,940 I stuck on records, too. 227 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:26,740 But the other thing, and I know it's the genre that you've prompted here, too, but these things are just so glossy and perfect and, right, and manicured. 228 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:32,880 and they lack the nuance and imperfection and mileage, right? 229 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,220 Yeah, I know what you mean. 230 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,900 You

know, like, yeah, I love Keith Richards over Joe Satriani. 231 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,460 You know, that's me, you know. 232 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,280 But I've been saying to somebody, I felt like, you know, the music, 233 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:44,200 it's kind of like Doritos. 234 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,040 They're like, you know, engineered to, you know, 235 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,660 just grab another one out of the bag. 236 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:53,300 Trifecta of salt, sugar, and fat, right? 237 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:53,520 Yeah. 238 00:16:54,220 --> 00:16:55,080 But it's okay. 239 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,040 These are Doritos. 240 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:56,480 Yes 241 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:05,060 Yeah, I've been saying they're they're Burger King, you know, if it was cuisine these songs are from Burger King 242 00:17:05,470 --> 00:17:07,740 Sure, I can chow down on some Burger King 243 00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:13,100 Tasty, let's not pretend that it's a might might even be White Castle. Yeah 244 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:15,260 These are rat burgers 245 00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:21,640 Burgers, I wonder then oh wow. So mark you've been doing this a long time. Obviously teaching piano 246 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,479 public school teacher for 13 years 247 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,500 What is this new devilry showing up as in your life? 248 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,260 Is it changing the way students learn music? 249 00:17:36,179 --> 00:17:37,260 Not yet. 250 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:45,500 But, I mean, for starters, you only have a certain percentage of kids who are driven specifically in a musical direction. 251 00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:55,140 And those that are, well, they're really the ones that I worry the most about because they are going to take the path of least resistance to sounding as good as they can. 252 00:17:55,660 --> 00:17:56,440 And why wouldn't they? 253 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,140 I mean, that makes a lot of sense. 254 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:09,800 But I have already been telling them, you build yourself through the struggle, you know, of trying to get from A to B, to get to a finished thing. 255 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:17,740 And by the way, your first 20 or maybe 50 songs are kind of going to suck, at least compared to your 200th song. 256 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:18,600 And it's a process. 257 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,900 And this is sort of the arc of your life. 258 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:21,860 And you should embrace it. 259 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,240 And it's a wonderful, beautiful thing. 260 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:29,120 Most of my students, they're just happy enough to just kind of plonk out a few notes on the keyboard. 261 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:34,520 And they want to get a passing grade at least or get an A in music. 262 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,580 do whatever they're supposed to do, 263 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:37,900 just like they're trying to get through math 264 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,560 and they're trying to get through drama 265 00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:40,740 or whatever else they have. 266 00:18:41,340 --> 00:18:45,620 My attention is really on the likely music makers 267 00:18:46,679 --> 00:18:48,420 and try to give them perspective 268 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:49,880 and make sure that they understand 269 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,120 that you have to work to build yourself as a person. 270 00:18:55,220 --> 00:18:56,240 I love that you said that. 271 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,060 And I kind of come from a similar background 272 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,300 in that I'm an elective teacher all my life, specialist. 273 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,060 And that for me, when I look back over my career 274 00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:11,380 in stem i feel like at any given moment in a cohort there's maybe 10 of that room that's like 275 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,800 yeah i love this thing and i'm just i'm going to make this my life would you feel that is that a 276 00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:20,860 decent percentage for people in a music room at any given time there's 10 in that room they're 277 00:19:20,860 --> 00:19:26,480 like yeah i'm a believer i think there are 10 some of them might be hiding because they're 278 00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:31,019 because they're in middle school and they're embarrassed about everything but yeah i think 279 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:32,160 I think 10% is probably a fair number. 280 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,200 God, but middle school too, man, 281 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,340 as problematic as it can be, especially seventh grade, 282 00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:40,500 middle school is just so fertile and ripe 283 00:19:40,580 --> 00:19:42,160 for just blowing minds, isn't it? 284 00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:46,660 Yeah, yeah, and for altering their course a little bit. 285 00:19:46,940 --> 00:19:47,180 Yeah. 286 00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:50,680 So yeah, I take a lot of pleasure in, 287 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,760 and I take it very seriously, 288 00:19:53,420 --> 00:19:55,540 'cause I could send them down a dark path 289 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:57,640 if I was so inclined. 290 00:19:58,140 --> 00:19:59,740 Here's the devil's interval, kids. 291 00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:02,140 The devil's interval. 292 00:20:03,060 --> 00:20:05,080 We're going to play this, everything in D minor. 293 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:05,780 That's right. 294 00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:07,120 The saddest of all keys. 295 00:20:10,260 --> 00:20:11,960 You do show them a spinal tap, I hope. 296 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:14,700 Are you kidding? 297 00:20:14,830 --> 00:20:15,580 I can't show them that. 298 00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:20,000 I can encourage them to go seek it out on their own. 299 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,340 It is public school in New Jersey. 300 00:20:21,410 --> 00:20:22,460 You probably get away with a lot. 301 00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:22,700 Yeah. 302 00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:23,900 Well, yeah. 303 00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:26,160 I mean, the language that

comes out of them all day long. 304 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,040 I wouldn't surprise them with anything. 305 00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:28,660 I bet. 306 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,340 So I love this question too that I have queued up for you. 307 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,540 So a student hands in some work to you. 308 00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:37,820 I don't know. 309 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:43,980 You give them something to compose and they've clearly leveraged an AI platform in the end product. 310 00:20:44,420 --> 00:20:48,140 And you, having the discerning ear that you have, can't tell. 311 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,740 It's so strong or it's maybe it kind of mimics their voice enough that you don't know. 312 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,140 How do you handle that? 313 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,840 They have to be able to articulate what they did. 314 00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:09,800 They have to be able to verbally articulate where they're coming from, and they maybe don't have to explain everything in detail from like a music theory point of view. 315 00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:16,980 But I can certainly tell when you're talking to me, like what the provenance of the ideas is. 316 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,640 And I can hear in that conversation how much this means to you. 317 00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:25,080 And honestly, if it means a lot to you, you get an A. 318 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,260 I don't care how good it is. 319 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,860 Because I want to see the effort and I want to see the development. 320 00:21:30,860 --> 00:21:36,540 I've often said that, because I have some of the shittiest students, but I also have some of the best. 321 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:45,180 And it is fully as meaningful to me to get a kid who's probably an 8 and becomes a 9 or a 10. 322 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,360 That's no more meaningful than a kid coming in who's a 2 and leaves as a 4. 323 00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:51,260 Yeah. 324 00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:53,120 It's all important. 325 00:21:54,520 --> 00:22:01,420 I love that because a couple of things, you're talking about process versus product, right? 326 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,580 Our education system has focused on product forever, right? 327 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,900 You got the grade, you got the right answer. 328 00:22:08,050 --> 00:22:10,040 They haven't spoken about process. 329 00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:12,480 They haven't talked about design process. 330 00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:16,860 And I love that you also said it comes down to conversation and anecdotal observation, 331 00:22:17,630 --> 00:22:17,740 right? 332 00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:22,200 And this kind of very humanistic interaction at the end of the day. 333 00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:23,380 We're people. 334 00:22:23,860 --> 00:22:25,580 We live, we should try to be happy. 335 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,260 We need to understand how to do that. 336 00:22:28,580 --> 00:22:31,700 And, you know, art is such an essential component of that. 337

00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:32,720 And so is communication. 338 00:22:33,420 --> 00:22:34,580 So let's work on those. 339 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,620 ♪ We're all sensitive people ♪ 340 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,560 You wanted me to sing, so I sang you some Marvin Gaye. 341 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,440 I did, I said, "What are you gonna sing on the show?" 342 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:45,000 There it is. 343 00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:46,500 Okay, drop that into Suno 344 00:22:46,580 --> 00:22:47,540 and let's see what it comes up with. 345 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:48,920 There you go, great, thank you. 346 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:49,420 There it is. 347 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,100 It is seven o'clock in the morning over here. 348 00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:54,220 My vocal folds haven't warmed up quite yet. 349 00:22:56,039 --> 00:23:01,720 So, Mark, you're working on your album with your progressive rock band, X-Atlas. 350 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:03,000 Yeah. 351 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,900 And that genre is built on musicianship, odd time signatures, and technical performance. 352 00:23:10,540 --> 00:23:16,240 We just watched a, Mark came over to watch a Stephen Wilson concert video, which was all about that. 353 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:17,720 Oh, nice. 354 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,700 One of the best concert videos I've ever seen. 355 00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:21,960 Holy shit. 356 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:22,660 Really? 357 00:23:22,660 --> 00:23:23,140 Holy shit. 358 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:23,980 Really something. 359 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,940 That's the guy from Porcupine Tree, right? 360 00:23:27,140 --> 00:23:27,260 Correct. 361 00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:27,700 Yeah. 362 00:23:27,860 --> 00:23:28,160 Yeah. 363 00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:30,500 I'll put a link in the description for that. 364 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:37,520 So is there any part of that process where AI tools have snuck in, even in demoing or 365 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:40,600 arranging, or is it deliberately human-only zone? 366 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:46,660 Oh, very much deliberately human-only zone until now. 367 00:23:47,340 --> 00:23:59,800 Now that I started fucking around with these things a little bit, I've said for sure I don't want AI to ever write a lyric in my song. 368 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:00,960 It's my song. 369 00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:02,100 It's my story. 370 00:24:02,690 --> 00:24:06,220 But then, you know, I started playing around and I threw some ideas into Suno. 371 00:24:06,290 --> 00:24:07,100 And I'll tell you what. 372 00:24:07,270 --> 00:24:09,000 You dipped your hand in the bag of Doritos. 373 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,440 That's the thing, man. 374 00:24:11,530 --> 00:24:13,300 There were just a couple little phrases. 375 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,700 And I was saying to you how Suno's lyrics are just one metaphor after another. 376 00:24:17,940 --> 00:24:20,380 That seems to be the way that it approaches songwriting. 377 00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:23,320 Oh, this is going

to be more poetic because it's a metaphor. 378 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:29,100 But there were a couple that were so unexpected and so illuminating. 379 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,320 Like, oh, shit, I cannot hear that. 380 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:32,440 I think I might have to use that. 381 00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:38,960 And now I have this riff that I wrote to show to the band. 382 00:24:39,020 --> 00:24:40,340 It could become a section of something. 383 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,440 And it's rhythmically really hard. 384 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,180 and harmonically, for those who are comfortable with these kinds of words, 385 00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:51,060 it's really challenging. 386 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,700 There's like two chords that don't really go together, 387 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,800 and I thought, well, it would be really cool to see what Suno, 388 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:03,320 with its endless chops, could do over something really difficult like this. 389 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,780 So I threw that all together, and although the lyrics are stupid 390 00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:11,400 and I have no interest in what it came up with at all, 391 00:25:12,180 --> 00:25:15,600 The melody, the vocal melody is great. 392 00:25:16,060 --> 00:25:16,180 Wow. 393 00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:20,700 And it's not unlike melodies that I've written myself for my other songs. 394 00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:27,700 And maybe to some degree, the rough that I put into it, you know, is responsible for that. 395 00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:35,820 And I don't know if Suno kind of starts building a model of me based on stuff that I put into it. 396 00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:38,680 I was actually wondering if RAINA would be able to speak to that a little bit. 397 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,700 But yeah, so I have started using it now because I want to know, well, what would it do with this really difficult thing? 398 00:25:45,290 --> 00:25:46,220 All right, maybe I can do that. 399 00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:47,340 And I can take it or leave it. 400 00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:53,020 But I like having, you know, more options kind of spelled out for me that I could choose from. 401 00:25:53,650 --> 00:25:58,160 You know, it gives you a couple different versions of a song once you give it a prompt and you let it go. 402 00:25:58,850 --> 00:26:04,040 And I'm thinking when I'm at the piano, I didn't invent any of the chords that I'm using. 403 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:11,760 I'm choosing them and I'm trying to create a kind of musical context, but I didn't invent any of these chords and I didn't invent any of these scales. 404 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:17,940 And probably every combination of notes that I'm coming up with has already been used a bajillion times. 405 00:26:18,670 --> 00:26:30,840 So it's just a kind of sped up hyper version of that when I get something from Suno and I draw upon it and I use that as an influence for the writing process. 406 00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:32,300 I think

that's not going to change. 407 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:33,840 I'd still like to be able to sit down. 408 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,560 I still can sit down at the piano and write something 409 00:26:36,620 --> 00:26:38,780 and an hour later, hopefully I have something decent for you. 410 00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,080 But this is amazing, you know, 411 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,680 for someone who has spent this much time 412 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,440 learning about music to be able to take, 413 00:26:46,540 --> 00:26:48,560 really take a shortcut like this. 414 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,200 I think it's awesome. 415 00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:53,180 Yeah, and coming back to process defense, right? 416 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,940 It's a dialogue, it's a conversation. 417 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,200 You're not just like wholesale surrendering 418 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,960 the composition to this thing. 419 00:26:59,340 --> 00:27:01,120 You're like, oh, that's pretty cool. 420 00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:02,020 I like that idea. 421 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,700 I would not have considered that. 422 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:07,900 And the other thing I always think about when we talk about these, you know, 423 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,120 LLMs as cheating machines or however you want to frame them in educational terminology, 424 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,240 I think about it all the time is, 425 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,920 aren't we collaborating with the largest group of humans ever assembled? 426 00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:19,480 That's really what we're doing here. 427 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:20,680 I think so. 428 00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:21,380 Right? 429 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,620 We've scraped humanity into this black box and we're saying, 430 00:27:24,660 --> 00:27:25,580 hey, I've got this song. 431 00:27:26,140 --> 00:27:27,280 Is anybody in this group here? 432 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:28,500 Can we crowdsource this solution? 433 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,240 I'm stuck on this bridge or I'm stuck on this line. 434 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,480 Somebody have an idea. 435 00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:36,920 And that's up to you as the curator to say, oh, that's the one. 436 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:37,660 I like that. 437 00:27:37,820 --> 00:27:39,580 Thank you, anonymous black box. 438 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,740 Yes, that works. 439 00:27:40,910 --> 00:27:45,900 And it's not, you know, it's not just it's storing all of this data. 440 00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:48,700 I mean, it works similarly to how the human brain does. 441 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:49,760 It's a neural network. 442 00:27:49,950 --> 00:27:53,240 And so it's a just it's a giant brain. 443 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:56,680 It's the borg. 444 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,340 It's a gray area for sure. 445 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,620 but so is the brain. 446 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:01,980 That's right. 447 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:02,780 That's a great, 448 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,500 great matter. 449 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,260 So what is X Atlas all about? 450 00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:11,820 How would you describe this particular flavor of progressive rock? 451 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,460 A lot, 452 00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:16,040 a lot of modern prog rock is very, 453 00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:16,700 um, 454 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,220 very like gymnastic guitar, 455 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,520 arpeggios and scales and stuff like that. 456 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:22,160 Um, 457 00:28:22,300 --> 00:28:23,580 but it's one thing that I, 458 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,220 I love about progressive rock is that it's not about the singer. 459 00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:34,620 it's really about the art of the music sure and something that i always say to my students 460 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:41,420 is we are not here to do easy things and i sure as hell embrace that in my own life and i know 461 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,840 larry does and i know that you do um so when x atlas gets together in this room behind me to 462 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:54,739 rehearse everything is like so intricate and so detailed and we're just like savoring the 463 00:28:54,740 --> 00:29:00,600 challenge of remembering the four or five ideas we just had and adding them to the 50 ideas that 464 00:29:00,620 --> 00:29:06,380 we had since we started playing this thing and going like we'll we'll play uh you know the same 465 00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:13,160 eight bar phrase for half an hour and try this and try that and something about that's just really 466 00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:18,800 soothing and satisfying to me and if at the end of six months and sometimes it takes me six months 467 00:29:18,860 --> 00:29:24,720 to write the song because i have so many other you know pots on the stove so to speak um but by 468 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,500 the song is done, I feel really good about it. And I don't need anyone else to like it, 469 00:29:28,540 --> 00:29:35,420 but the four of us love the song. So it's a great process. Awesome. And I think you're going to 470 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:41,500 delay any kind of cognitive decline in your life too, by engaging your brain, like in our 50s, 471 00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:46,160 the three of us, by playing that very ambitious kind of challenging stuff, right? I think that's 472 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:52,400 the key to it. You're probably right. I mean, I have a madly twisted ADHD brain, you know, 473 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,760 highs and lows, everything that that entails. 474 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,160 So I think it won't get any worse. 475 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,540 I still don't know what I'm supposed to do tomorrow half of the time. 476 00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:01,880 Right. 477 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,900 And I still walk into the other room, 478 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:05,920 and then by the time they get to the other room, 479 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,260 I have no idea what the hell I was going in there for 480

00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:11,320 because something else just took over my brain. 481 00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,240 So do you have that heavy riff thing, LB? 482 00:30:16,540 --> 00:30:18,780 This is actually heavier than a lot of our stuff, 483 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,600 but I was like, I think we need to go balls out for a moment here. 484 00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:24,060 So the first clip is what? 485 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,320 The first clip is just a quick MIDI version, 486 00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:30,740 just in Logic, using Logic instruments. 487 00:30:31,230 --> 00:30:32,240 I played the bass in, 488 00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:36,280 I played the sort of heavy guitar synth-y sound, 489 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:38,280 and I played the drums in. 490 00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:40,280 And so I set up the riff. 491 00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:42,100 The riff goes around four times. 492 00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:43,500 The first time just sets it up. 493 00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,820 The second time I play the chords behind it 494 00:30:45,820 --> 00:30:47,520 to kind of show harmonically where it's going. 495 00:30:48,010 --> 00:30:49,460 And then for the third and fourth time through, 496 00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:52,660 I do some crazy ripping, shreddy kind of synth solo stuff. 497 00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:53,520 Okay. 498 00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:55,640 And that was what I fed into Suno, 499 00:30:55,790 --> 00:30:57,840 and then Suno just went to town, as it do. 500 00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:00,320 Are we going to hear your original take, 501 00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:02,380 and then we're going to hear Suno's version? 502 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:02,980 Yeah. 503 00:31:03,050 --> 00:31:03,340 Got it. 504 00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:06,900 The sound quality is definitely shite, 505 00:31:07,530 --> 00:31:09,720 and I decided to leave it like that 506 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,380 because I think that underscores 507 00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:13,480 how impressive it was that Suno did something. 508 00:31:13,780 --> 00:31:13,840 Yeah. 509 00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:48,300 All right, that's the before. 510 00:31:49,540 --> 00:31:50,140 Okay. 511 00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:51,760 And here's the after. 512 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,060 That's E major to B flat major. 513 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:31,220 Shadows on the edge, cold wind in our eyes 514 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,580 Every heartbeat counting down the dive 515 00:32:38,740 --> 00:32:44,460 Whispers in the wires, storm across the sky 516 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,620 Every breath a question, are we meant to run? 517 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,420 distorted guitar convincingly. 518 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:26,920 Not anymore. 519 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,560 What was the thing we played with like three years ago? 520 00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:31,800 Like "Refusion." 521 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:34,220 Yeah, I was trying to find that clip. 522 00:33:35,550 --> 00:33:36,320 Oh, the reggae thing. 523 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,560 Yeah, it's nondescript vocalizations 524 00:33:39,860 --> 00:33:42,760 that kind of sounded like Bob Marley and it was horrendous. 525 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:43,200 So weird. 526 00:33:43,290 --> 00:33:44,700 But it was still impressive at the time. 527 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:46,540 Yeah. 528 00:33:47,460 --> 00:33:50,860 I have to ask, are you an "Animals as Leaders" fan? 529 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:58,000 Yeah, I don't think I have any records, but I've listened to a bunch and I've watched a bunch of videos and 530 00:33:58,750 --> 00:34:05,740 You know, I love like finding the one and you know, all that shit. Yeah, gent. Gent is the genre I think, right? 531 00:34:08,459 --> 00:34:16,020 Yeah, good stuff. Oh, yeah, your music sounds amazing. I can't wait to hear the finished product, soonified or not. Yeah. Yeah 532 00:34:16,220 --> 00:34:21,540 Well, thanks. Yeah, I'll keep you on the loop. Probably only take me another seven months to write that 533 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,440 You want to talk up the other one that you gave me? 534 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:25,000 Okay, yeah. 535 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,340 So the other piece that I brought for show and tell today 536 00:34:29,179 --> 00:34:32,200 is a very simple piano etude. 537 00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:34,440 An etude, for those who don't know, 538 00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:37,560 it's just like a little composition that you learn 539 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,639 to help you learn your instrument. 540 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,280 They're usually not intended to be performance pieces, 541 00:34:42,669 --> 00:34:43,980 but, you know, they're hopefully fun, 542 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,220 and they give you enough satisfaction 543 00:34:47,659 --> 00:34:49,000 to keep studying your instrument. 544 00:34:49,590 --> 00:34:51,500 So I have this very simple piece. 545 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,260 I've taught it to literally thousands of students, which is also a little mind-boggling when you think about it. 546 00:34:58,260 --> 00:35:02,520 But, you know, I'll have a whole room full of kids playing this very simple, dorky little song. 547 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,640 It's like a little funky thing. 548 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,520 And I thought, well, we'll see where Suno takes this one. 549 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,600 And, you know, it's stupefying. 550 00:35:09,930 --> 00:35:10,640 So let's play. 551 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,840 It's only 30 seconds long. 552 00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:15,480 The whole thing, very simple, A-A-B-A kind of thing. 553 00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:21,820 Oh yeah. 554 00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:26,740 Through the bridge. 555 00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:31,260 Huh. 556 00:35:35,260 --> 00:35:36,320 Bring it home now. 557 00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:49,660 Nice. 558 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,000 That was the Suno version. 559 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:51,920 No, I'm just kidding. 560 00:35:53,839 --> 00:35:54,640 So wait a second. 561 00:35:54,780 --> 00:35:57,600 That sounds like it was on an

acoustic upright, 562 00:35:58,060 --> 00:35:59,640 or was that from MIDI as well? 563 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:00,220 What was that? 564 00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:02,380 Oh, I think we lost Mark. 565 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:03,360 I think we did. 566 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:05,000 I thought he was very stoic and- 567 00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:06,640 I know, he was thinking about a response. 568 00:36:09,059 --> 00:36:10,100 I wonder if he lost power. 569 00:36:10,780 --> 00:36:12,240 Ooh, my light's just flickered too. 570 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:13,560 Oh, damn. 571 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:14,900 Get home with it. 572 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:15,600 We lost Mark. 573 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,040 All right, I'm just gonna play it. 574 00:36:17,859 --> 00:36:19,160 Here's what Suno did with that. 575 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,040 ♪ Jesus ♪ 576 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:26,740 ♪ Jesus ♪ 577 00:36:49,220 --> 00:36:49,340 Jesus. 578 00:37:11,619 --> 00:37:14,600 As Salieri would say, too many notes. 579 00:37:15,060 --> 00:37:16,760 Too many notes. 580 00:37:17,140 --> 00:37:21,480 I wonder what the initial prompt was when he fed in that etude to Suno. 581 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,600 You know, like, when I started spitting that out, I would have been like, oh, no, no, take it easy. 582 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:27,800 Dial it back. 583 00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:30,640 I do like that it came back to the original figure, though. 584 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:31,980 That was kind of cool, that little breakdown. 585 00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:32,400 Yeah. 586 00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:32,900 Wow. 587 00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:33,700 Amazing. 588 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:34,980 Yeah, it's absurd. 589 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:35,900 It's ridiculous. 590 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:36,840 Unbelievable. 591 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:37,600 Yeah. 592 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,200 I mean, very technical, too many notes. 593 00:37:41,060 --> 00:37:42,800 And yet, you know, Gloria is fun. 594 00:37:43,180 --> 00:37:43,260 Yeah. 595 00:37:43,340 --> 00:37:43,440 Yeah. 596 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,660 And the depth of it and the fidelity of the track sounds incredible. 597 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,540 Yeah, sonically it's amazing. 598 00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:58,360 The reharmonization, which is really a high-tier skill, you know, to learn how to do that. 599 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,260 Take the same melody and then completely reharmonize things to change the chords. 600 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,500 And it does that as effortlessly as it does everything else. 601 00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:07,740 How? 602 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:09,920 You know, that's very instructive for me. 603 00:38:10,220 --> 00:38:14,060 That's something what I was getting back to earlier is that I'm going to listen to that. 604 00:38:14,170 --> 00:38:19,400 And I'm like, oh, that is another way to get from this part to that part that I never would have thought of. 605 00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:25,080 And maybe that'll become one more little, you know, one more little element in my toolbox that I can use going forward. 606 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:35,000 But that also speaks to the idea that you, as a subject matter expert, are getting the most out of these tools because you're seeing that, right? 607 00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:37,360 The average everyday user isn't seeing the reharmonization. 608 00:38:37,930 --> 00:38:39,860 They're not seeing this possibility, right? 609 00:38:40,060 --> 00:38:46,540 So there is still value in having the depth of experience that you do in your field. 610 00:38:47,860 --> 00:38:48,300 Damn right. 611 00:38:48,610 --> 00:38:48,780 Yeah. 612 00:38:48,940 --> 00:38:49,400 Damn right. 613 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:49,920 Humans. 614 00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:50,740 Go humans. 615 00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:51,080 Yeah. 616 00:38:52,460 --> 00:39:00,340 And look, we were talking about film studios, movie studios, and using AI tools and some backlash, whatever. 617 00:39:00,490 --> 00:39:04,320 And, you know, we both don't have a problem with that. 618 00:39:04,580 --> 00:39:18,500 Because in the hands of a director or a professional or whatever, just to get to the end of what they're trying to accomplish, using it as a tool, just like you would use Photoshop, when it's not just used for the entirety of the product. 619 00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:20,120 I think there's a big difference there. 620 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:21,020 Yep. 621 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:24,420 So we are running long on time. 622 00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:26,420 It's so great to have you on the show. 623 00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:32,280 I think it definitely merits another visit if you have time in your busy schedule at one point. 624 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:33,040 I'll make it work. 625 00:39:33,420 --> 00:39:33,600 Good. 626 00:39:34,420 --> 00:39:40,000 And we are also getting hit with potentially 80 mile per hour winds here in New Jersey. 627 00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:44,740 And Mark has lost power briefly, flickered, you know. 628 00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:45,980 Twice during this podcast. 629 00:39:45,980 --> 00:39:47,140 Yeah, my lights have flickered twice. 630 00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:50,120 So we're not sure how long we're going to be able to keep this rolling. 631 00:39:51,260 --> 00:39:52,620 So why don't we bang through the news? 632 00:39:52,920 --> 00:40:01,140 And yeah, hopefully Mark can stick around for the news and not be wiped off the face of the earth over there in Jersey by some. 633 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,340 God damn, turn 80! 634 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,580 Sounds good, guys. This was fun. 635 00:40:06,260 --> 00:40:09,780 So, Mark, did you have a question for RAINA? 636 00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:12,080 Yes, I do. 637 00:40:13,420 --> 00:40:19,220 RAINA, what's the difference between how society consumes music today 638 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,780 and how it consumed music, say, in the mid-18th century? 639 00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:29,940 In the mid-18th century, music was mostly

something you had to be physically present for. 640 00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:33,760 church, court, tavern, parlor, public concert hall, 641 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,240 so it was social, local, and scarce. 642 00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:40,180 Today, music is abundant to the point of absurdity. 643 00:40:40,460 --> 00:40:43,120 Every human with a phone has a magical jukebox 644 00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:45,900 containing almost all recorded sound, which is beautiful, 645 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,800 and also turns music into wallpaper sometimes. 646 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,920 Back then, listeners often consumed music as an event. 647 00:40:53,340 --> 00:40:55,460 Now we consume it as a constant atmosphere, 648 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,180 while driving, working, doom-scrolling, 649 00:40:58,500 --> 00:40:59,300 pretending to exercise. 650 00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:08,740 So the big shift is from music as a shared temporary performance to music as an endlessly repeatable personalized algorithm fed companion. 651 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,820 That sounds fair. 652 00:41:11,820 --> 00:41:12,400 And sad. 653 00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:13,380 And sad, yeah. 654 00:41:15,020 --> 00:41:16,040 Oh, we lost Mark. 655 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:16,960 Oh, we did. 656 00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:19,940 Well, Mark is sucked up by a tornado. 657 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,900 Or he's still really taking in her answer. 658 00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:26,660 Yeah, he's really thinking about it. 659 00:41:28,030 --> 00:41:29,940 His face is frozen on our screen. 660 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:31,220 It looks very pensive. 661 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:31,820 Yeah. 662 00:41:32,380 --> 00:41:32,680 All right. 663 00:41:32,850 --> 00:41:34,240 So here's what's going on. 664 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,820 Larry and Mark are both facing down some F5 tornado scenario. 665 00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:40,000 I hope not. 666 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,860 We've lost Mark, I think, three times now. 667 00:41:42,940 --> 00:41:43,860 He's gone for good now. 668 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:44,540 Power is down. 669 00:41:44,610 --> 00:41:53,120 So we want to thank Mark in his absence for being here and having such an engaging conversation about music and AI and what that means for creativity. 670 00:41:53,790 --> 00:41:54,700 And hopefully he'll come back. 671 00:41:55,180 --> 00:42:03,920 So with that said, before we have any other kind of, you know, acts of God that act upon this podcast, we're going to roll the news and then we're out of here. 672 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:13,620 Yeah, yeah, we're going to just let the news roll and not comment on it so we can get this done and make sure this saves and we don't lose this episode. 673 00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:16,000 Thanks, boys. 674 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,880 Spain just gave Palantir the diplomatic cold shoulder, 675 00:42:19,590 --> 00:42:24,060 quietly telling state-linked companies like Telefonica, Indra, and Navantia 676 00:42:24,420 --> 00:42:28,220 to steer clear of any new contracts with the Peter Thiel-backed data giant. 677 00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:31,400 The instruction isn't an official public policy, 678 00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:35,720 just word passed down through the halls of companies with government ownership stakes. 679 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,860 Because nothing says serious national security concern 680 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,860 like a vague warning nobody wants to put in writing. 681 00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:45,520 Spain joins France and Germany in the, 682 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,580 we love America, just not that much of America 683 00:42:48,850 --> 00:42:50,420 inside our defense infrastructure club, 684 00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:52,660 proving once again that digital sovereignty 685 00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:55,380 is just a fancy way of saying, no thanks, Alex. 686 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,340 Ford tried the just feed AI our design specs 687 00:42:59,490 --> 00:43:01,480 and let it handle quality control approach. 688 00:43:02,090 --> 00:43:04,740 And shockingly, software doesn't have 30 years 689 00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:07,300 of gut instinct for why a door panel sounds wrong. 690 00:43:08,020 --> 00:43:12,400 So the company quietly rehired 350 gray beard engineers, 691 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,500 many of whom they'd already let go, 692 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,700 to babysit the algorithms and retrain them with actual human wisdom. 693 00:43:19,660 --> 00:43:23,080 The reward for admitting AI can't fully replace institutional knowledge? 694 00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:28,200 Ford topped the J.D. Power quality rankings for the first time in 16 years, 695 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:31,460 proving that sometimes the most cutting-edge move 696 00:43:31,620 --> 00:43:33,540 is just hiring back the people you fired. 697 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,320 Sam Altman's latest pitch. 698 00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:40,419 Hand the Trump administration a 5% slice of open AI 699 00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:42,880 worth a cool $42.6 billion, 700 00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:47,120 so the public can supposedly share the upside of AI, 701 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,620 a proposal that also happens to arrive 702 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,520 right as the White House is holding up 703 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,360 OpenAI's model releases over national security concerns. 704 00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:57,000 Funny how that works. 705 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,540 The plan envisions Anthropic, Google, and Meta 706 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,540 all kicking in their own 5% too, 707 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,880 structured like a sovereign wealth fund, 708 00:44:05,180 --> 00:44:07,819 because nothing screams free market innovation 709 00:44:07,820 --> 00:44:11,120 like the government owning a chunk of every major AI lab. 710 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:14,160 Trump, who already grabbed 10% of Intel 711 00:44:14,420 --> 00:44:16,100 and now says he wished he'd asked for more, 712 00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:18,480 is reportedly thrilled to

become 713 00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:21,120 everyone's new silent partner in the AI revolution. 714 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,580 A scroll named P. Herk 1667, 715 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,960 which Mount Vesuvius turned into a charcoal briquette in 79 AD, 716 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:31,940 has finally been read in full. 717 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,560 2,000 years, one volcano, and a bunch of AI later. 718 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:43,100 It came from the Villa of the Papyri in Herculaneum, believed to have belonged to Julius Caesar's father-in-law, 719 00:44:43,610 --> 00:44:51,840 and back in the 1980s, when part of it was physically opened, scholars gave up entirely and scored it a flat-out zero on the readability scale. 720 00:44:52,340 --> 00:44:54,720 This time, scientists never even touched the thing. 721 00:44:55,250 --> 00:45:01,740 They CT-scanned the coiled, warped mass, virtually flattened 1.5 meters of it across 20 columns, 722 00:45:02,420 --> 00:45:08,320 and let machine learning fish faint traces of ancient Greek ink out of overlapping, unreadable layers. 723 00:45:09,180 --> 00:45:10,540 The big philosophical reveal? 724 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:18,440 A 2nd century B.C. stoic treatise on ethics name-checking Aristocreon, nephew of the philosopher Chrysippus, 725 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:27,160 which is either deeply profound or extremely on-brand for something that survived getting buried alive by a volcano and then interrogated by a robot. 726 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:36,440 And lastly, Elton John, age 79, has apparently decided that eternity is just a Vegas residency waiting to happen, 727 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,500 reportedly signing a seven-figure deal to become a hologram at the new Hard Rock Hotel, 728 00:45:42,330 --> 00:45:46,240 technology permitting more advance than ABBA's already uncanny voyage show. 729 00:45:46,820 --> 00:45:52,480 This is the same man who once made his son swear there'd be no hologram of him touring the globe after he died, 730 00:45:53,110 --> 00:45:54,440 calling the whole idea spooky. 731 00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:59,960 Turns out, Spooky has a price, and that price is apparently in the millions. 732 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,820 So, somewhere down the line, tourists will be able to watch a digitally resurrected Elton 733 00:46:06,110 --> 00:46:12,680 belt out Rocketman alongside hologram Dua Lipa and hologram Kiki D, which either sounds 734 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,220 like the future of live music or the setup to the creepiest jukebox musical ever staged. 735 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,200 That's all the news for now. 736 00:46:19,450 --> 00:46:20,100 Back to you, gentlemen. 737 00:46:21,380 --> 00:46:22,220 And there you have it. 738 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,860 So, anything else, my friend? 739 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:25,300 No, I think that's a wrap. 740 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:26,080 That was a fun conversation. 741 00:46:26,780 --> 00:46:30,140 And there'll be links for any of Mark's stuff in the description. 742 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,060 We are off next week. 743 00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:35,080 You are traveling again. 744 00:46:35,380 --> 00:46:36,260 Good for you. 745 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:37,440 Thank you. 746 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,140 And then we'll be back the following week. 747 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:39,980 We will. 748 00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:41,200 All right, everybody. 749 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:42,140 Thanks for listening. 750 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:43,960 Subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. 751 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,080 Follow us on socials. 752 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:45,840 Throw us a rating. 753 00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:47,420 We'll see you in two weeks. 754 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,400 This has been Up Against Reality. 755 00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:53,560 Thanks for listening. 756 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:59,100 Subscribe to hear future episodes and be sure to follow us on social media for all things AI. 757 00:46:59,950 --> 00:47:02,100 Until next time, stay human, people. 758 00:47:02,180 --> 00:47:02,820 ♪♪♪