النص الكامل لحلقة Facing Fear: Exploring the Five Types that Hold Us Back

even when I first read it, my thought was, 38 00:02:30,790 --> 00:02:34,254 oh, yeah, that doesn't apply to me at all. And the more 39 00:02:34,342 --> 00:02:37,230 I kind of got into it, I was like, oh, yeah, this kind of does 40 00:02:37,270 --> 00:02:39,410 apply to me. So, yeah. 41 00:02:40,310 --> 00:02:43,186 And before we go on, I should give people, people, 42 00:02:43,338 --> 00:02:47,042 the listeners, an example of, or an idea rather of 43 00:02:47,066 --> 00:02:50,390 who he is. So, Dr. Carl Albrecht, 44 00:02:51,450 --> 00:02:55,394 he is a German entrepreneur and he is considered 45 00:02:55,442 --> 00:02:58,994 to be one of the top thought leaders in American 46 00:02:59,082 --> 00:03:03,042 business. He's also a leading authority on cognitive 47 00:03:03,106 --> 00:03:06,994 styles and the development of advanced problem solving skills. 48 00:03:07,042 --> 00:03:11,088 He's authored more than 20 books, very well published. 49 00:03:11,264 --> 00:03:14,048 I will make sure. I don't want to spend a lot of time getting into 50 00:03:14,104 --> 00:03:17,600 his history, but what I will do is, when we 51 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:21,540 release this, make sure his information is in the credits 52 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,344 because he's. I did use a few of his articles as. 53 00:03:25,432 --> 00:03:29,552 As reference. So what 54 00:03:29,576 --> 00:03:32,352 I thought. And let me know if you're okay with this, Megan. I thought what 55 00:03:32,376 --> 00:03:35,942 we could do is I'll just quickly list out 56 00:03:36,096 --> 00:03:39,882 how he breaks out those five fear categories, and then we 57 00:03:39,906 --> 00:03:43,546 can go one by one. That sound okay 58 00:03:43,578 --> 00:03:46,970 to you? Yep, that sounds perfectly okay. 59 00:03:47,130 --> 00:03:51,658 Okay. So Dr. Albrecht lists 60 00:03:51,674 --> 00:03:56,190 out the five types of fear as follows. One, fear of extinction. 61 00:03:56,930 --> 00:04:01,710 Sounds pretty heavy. Two, fear of mutilation 62 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,184 or body invasion. And I'm not going to lie, like I said, when I 63 00:04:05,192 --> 00:04:07,820 read these two, I was like, yeah, I don't have this problem, 64 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,780 but you will find that I do, and a lot of other people do. 65 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,352 Three, the loss of autonomy. Four, 66 00:04:16,456 --> 00:04:19,664 separation, abandonment, or rejection, which I 67 00:04:19,672 --> 00:04:22,048 think that's something you and I see a lot of. 68 00:04:22,184 --> 00:04:26,208 Absolutely. And then the last one is humiliation, 69 00:04:26,384 --> 00:04:29,840 shame, or worthlessness. And some 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,380 other people refer to that as ego death. 71 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:37,216 So if we were to look at that first one, 72 00:04:37,288 --> 00:04:40,340 that what he calls the fear of extinction, 73 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,072 I would call that more a fear of death or 74 00:04:47,096 --> 00:04:50,320 a fear of just existing, 75 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,192 not necessarily extinct. Like, I. When I thought of extinction, initially, 76 00:04:54,256 --> 00:04:58,002 I thought of, like, the world blowing up. And I think when you 77 00:04:58,026 --> 00:05:00,850 and I talked, I said to you, I'm like, I don't worry about that, 78 00:05:00,890 --> 00:05:02,990 because that's nothing I have control over. 79 00:05:04,330 --> 00:05:07,810 But then getting more into it, you know, 80 00:05:07,850 --> 00:05:11,458 some examples might be. And I don't 81 00:05:11,474 --> 00:05:14,642 know if you've experienced this. I do have some 82 00:05:14,666 --> 00:05:17,570 adults that are fearful of the dark. Yeah, 83 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:21,234 they're fearful of, you know, things like 84 00:05:21,402 --> 00:05:25,310 heights or flying or. Or things like that. 85 00:05:26,130 --> 00:05:29,402 What is. What are some of your experiences with this 86 00:05:29,506 --> 00:05:32,230 particular category? Sure. 87 00:05:33,330 --> 00:05:37,002 So it's interesting, I would say that this 88 00:05:37,106 --> 00:05:40,490 category. And, yeah, I. For me, 89 00:05:40,530 --> 00:05:43,190 I think of it as fear of death. 90 00:05:44,530 --> 00:05:48,010 But this comes up a lot in 91 00:05:48,050 --> 00:05:51,138 hypnosis, in my hypnotherapy sessions, 92 00:05:51,274 --> 00:05:55,042 because just again, a reminder, I'm. I'm a hypnotherapist as 93 00:05:55,066 --> 00:05:57,190 well as a licensed clinician. 94 00:05:57,770 --> 00:06:01,474 And certainly this category can come up in my therapy 95 00:06:01,522 --> 00:06:04,802 sessions. But I would say it comes up. 96 00:06:04,906 --> 00:06:08,722 This specific fear comes up much more in my hypnosis sessions because a 97 00:06:08,746 --> 00:06:11,682 lot of people are, you know, 98 00:06:11,706 --> 00:06:15,490 when they have a specific fear. So two that come out stand 99 00:06:15,530 --> 00:06:19,040 out in my mind. And you already listed them, Sarah. But fear 100 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,560 of heights and fear of flying in an 101 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,888 airplane come up a lot with 102 00:06:25,944 --> 00:06:29,536 regard to potential clients calling me and 103 00:06:29,608 --> 00:06:33,312 saying, you know, I noticed that you do hypnosis. 104 00:06:33,456 --> 00:06:36,960 Could this help? So Those are probably the 105 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,400 top two for me in. Within this 106 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,900 category that I. That I see 107 00:06:45,170 --> 00:06:48,666 one of. And I'm kind of thinking I. 108 00:06:48,818 --> 00:06:52,150 You're going to be able to chime in on this one. But the other one 109 00:06:52,450 --> 00:06:56,378 that I found falls in that category 110 00:06:56,474 --> 00:07:00,270 is disease, like fatal diseases. 111 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:04,506 Um, and I think we saw a lot of this during COVID 112 00:07:04,658 --> 00:07:08,202 Yes. Especially with people not, you know, 113

00:07:08,226 --> 00:07:11,590 especially in the beginning. There was so much we didn't know about it. 114 00:07:12,030 --> 00:07:14,890 And it's, 115 00:07:15,630 --> 00:07:19,494 you know, I. I don't know if you've got any. Whether it's 116 00:07:19,542 --> 00:07:23,206 personal or clients where, you know, I know I've 117 00:07:23,238 --> 00:07:26,982 had people come in, and some people are very specific 118 00:07:27,126 --> 00:07:30,822 around an illness they think they may 119 00:07:30,926 --> 00:07:33,730 develop or they do have. And others, 120 00:07:34,590 --> 00:07:37,250 it could be very broad. It could be the, 121 00:07:38,100 --> 00:07:41,484 you know, the what ifs, where it's like, well, maybe if I were exposed 122 00:07:41,532 --> 00:07:43,120 to this, I might die. 123 00:07:45,140 --> 00:07:48,300 Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad you brought that one up. 124 00:07:48,340 --> 00:07:52,680 I am now thinking of one client in particular that 125 00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:56,556 has a lot of intrusive thoughts, and his intrusive 126 00:07:56,588 --> 00:08:01,320 thoughts often are related to 127 00:08:03,260 --> 00:08:06,916 fear of. Of getting a specific fatal 128 00:08:06,948 --> 00:08:11,300 disease. So you're absolutely right. That would also fall under this 129 00:08:11,420 --> 00:08:14,680 category of fear of extinction. Yeah. Okay. 130 00:08:15,580 --> 00:08:17,600 One. One thing, I think, 131 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:22,612 and I guess I'll share this, this is a personal one, because I know 132 00:08:22,636 --> 00:08:26,292 I said, like, the first two didn't necessarily. When I was 133 00:08:26,316 --> 00:08:30,120 thinking about this, didn't apply to me. Not that I don't know why they wouldn't, 134 00:08:31,340 --> 00:08:34,868 but the fatal disease part was or is 135 00:08:34,924 --> 00:08:39,156 a big one for me. And shout 136 00:08:39,188 --> 00:08:43,044 out to my mom, because, mom, I'm going to kind of dime 137 00:08:43,092 --> 00:08:46,532 you out here. My mom is 138 00:08:46,556 --> 00:08:50,680 a very strong woman. She has fought breast cancer 139 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:54,452 three times. She had lung cancer as a 140 00:08:54,476 --> 00:08:58,160 result of the breast cancer once. And the first 141 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,880 time she was diagnosed, I was 13. So I 142 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,952 was scared to death. Absolutely scared to death. 143 00:09:06,136 --> 00:09:09,740 And long story short, 144 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,792 when it came to my own health, you know, I had 145 00:09:13,816 --> 00:09:17,712 to go and get mammograms early. And the doctor 146 00:09:17,776 --> 00:09:20,624 literally would say to me, you know, she'd be like, you need to go get 147 00:09:20,632 --> 00:09:23,562 this done. I'm like, yeah, and. And that would kind of be the extent of 148 00:09:23,586 --> 00:09:27,322 the conversation. And it got to the point where I said, you are 149 00:09:27,346 --> 00:09:31,130 going to have to make the appointment for me before I leave this office, 150 00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:34,298 because I will not go. I won't do it on my own. If it's made, 151 00:09:34,354 --> 00:09:37,310 I will absolutely go. Um, 152 00:09:37,730 --> 00:09:41,514 the fear, obviously, was that I was going to 153 00:09:41,682 --> 00:09:45,002 have breast cancer, especially given that my mom had had it at 154 00:09:45,026 --> 00:09:48,298 such a young age. I kind of figured when I turned 39, 155 00:09:48,354 --> 00:09:51,882 which is how old she was, I said, okay, here we go. Here we go. 156 00:09:51,986 --> 00:09:55,706 Yeah. And what's been interesting about 157 00:09:55,778 --> 00:09:58,682 this is now that, 158 00:09:58,786 --> 00:10:02,122 I mean, I kind of came to a, a good place 159 00:10:02,146 --> 00:10:06,074 with it. I mean, I got a lot of pressure from doctors around being genetically 160 00:10:06,122 --> 00:10:08,110 tested for the BRCA gene, 161 00:10:09,010 --> 00:10:12,330 you know, all of that. And I refused to do it 162 00:10:12,370 --> 00:10:15,706 because my thought process was. Or and still is 163 00:10:15,778 --> 00:10:19,880 actually our minds are really powerful 164 00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:24,740 and I could, if I have the BRCA gene, 165 00:10:24,820 --> 00:10:28,356 I could very easily then see myself 166 00:10:28,468 --> 00:10:32,116 will it to happen, so to speak. I know that sounds a little woo 167 00:10:32,148 --> 00:10:35,524 woo, but that was my thought. 168 00:10:35,612 --> 00:10:39,428 And then I started working with a naturopath last 169 00:10:39,484 --> 00:10:43,412 year. She brought it up. And the interesting part 170 00:10:43,436 --> 00:10:46,762 of the conversation is I sit 171 00:10:46,786 --> 00:10:50,970 with people every day and tell them that knowledge is power and 172 00:10:51,090 --> 00:10:54,602 that the more information we have, you know, the stronger we 173 00:10:54,626 --> 00:10:57,994 are for it. And I even said that to her 174 00:10:58,162 --> 00:11:02,026 and I really thought long and hard. I talked with my mom. 175 00:11:02,178 --> 00:11:05,802 She, you know, continues to meet with her oncologist. And that's been 176 00:11:05,826 --> 00:11:09,750 an ongoing dialogue for them around what I need or want. 177 00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:13,914 And I really, I mean, 178 00:11:14,002 --> 00:11:17,754 I was on the brink. I was like, maybe, maybe I'll do it. 179 00:11:17,922 --> 00:11:20,990 And I just couldn't pull the trigger. 180 00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:24,826 And that fear is still there. 181 00:11:24,978 --> 00:11:28,506 However, if I were to test 182 00:11:28,578 --> 00:11:32,090 positive for the gene, I also know 183 00:11:32,130 --> 00:11:33,630 myself and my anxiety, 184 00:11:35,090 --> 00:11:38,630 and that's harder to live with for me. 185 00:11:39,770 --> 00:11:41,630 So I had to make that decision. 186 00:11:43,930 --> 00:11:47,378 Wow. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say. 187 00:11:47,434 --> 00:11:51,266 So it

sounds for you, Sarah, that. And I know 188 00:11:51,338 --> 00:11:54,882 I don't mean to jump ahead into strategies, but since 189 00:11:54,906 --> 00:11:58,370 you're sharing this story, and by the way, I really appreciate you sharing 190 00:11:58,450 --> 00:12:02,194 this story. Thank you. And I'm sure our listeners will appreciate it too. 191 00:12:02,362 --> 00:12:05,910 But if I'm hearing you right, it sounds 192 00:12:06,070 --> 00:12:09,462 like one of the ways 193 00:12:09,606 --> 00:12:11,890 you are able to, 194 00:12:12,510 --> 00:12:14,918 let's say, diminish the fear, 195 00:12:15,014 --> 00:12:18,630 because a healthy dose of fear, let's face it, right? We all 196 00:12:18,670 --> 00:12:22,166 have fear and maybe some is appropriate 197 00:12:22,198 --> 00:12:25,894 and reasonable. But what I'm hearing you say is that you're 198 00:12:25,942 --> 00:12:29,990 choosing not to focus so 199 00:12:30,030 --> 00:12:34,050 much on the possibility of 200 00:12:34,370 --> 00:12:37,498 developing cancer. And you're, 201 00:12:37,594 --> 00:12:40,750 you're putting your focus elsewhere. 202 00:12:41,330 --> 00:12:45,082 And I 100 agree with you whether it sounds woo woo or 203 00:12:45,106 --> 00:12:49,274 not, that there is power behind 204 00:12:49,442 --> 00:12:51,738 our thoughts and our thinking. 205 00:12:51,914 --> 00:12:54,506 So. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, 206 00:12:54,618 --> 00:12:57,962 absolutely. So, you know, 207 00:12:57,986 --> 00:13:03,638 the reason I, and the reason I wanted to share that is because 208 00:13:03,694 --> 00:13:07,238 I think one to let people 209 00:13:07,294 --> 00:13:10,850 know, I mean Obviously, this isn't about me, but to let them know that 210 00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:15,494 when you think of this idea 211 00:13:15,542 --> 00:13:18,806 of, you know, ceasing to exist or death or this idea 212 00:13:18,838 --> 00:13:23,350 of a fatal disease, it puts our 213 00:13:23,390 --> 00:13:26,770 mortality more into perspective, which I think is. 214 00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:30,950 That's where at least I see this, for some people, being very scary because 215 00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:34,652 they go down this path of, okay, but if I'm not here, who's going 216 00:13:34,676 --> 00:13:38,460 to take care of my kids? Who's going to watch after my animals? 217 00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:41,880 You know, who? It's. It's all those things that, 218 00:13:42,260 --> 00:13:45,100 especially if you're younger, when, as you get older, 219 00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:48,492 there's a practical level to that where I think you, you know, it is things 220 00:13:48,516 --> 00:13:51,996 like having your affairs in order and having your estate planned 221 00:13:52,028 --> 00:13:55,692 and all that. When you're younger, you don't necessarily 222 00:13:55,756 --> 00:13:59,356 think of that. And I think it ties into 223 00:13:59,508 --> 00:14:01,800 as well. And I see this with. 224 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,352 I'm not trying to. I mean, this is just

the popular. Some of the 225 00:14:07,376 --> 00:14:11,540 population I see, but like people in their 30s almost, 226 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,168 I would say half of my clients in that age group are going 227 00:14:16,224 --> 00:14:19,940 through or have gone through an existential crisis around this. 228 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,096 And it's. And it's been kind of interesting how it, how it ties together. 229 00:14:25,168 --> 00:14:29,124 And then there's that again, it's that fear that it comes back to 230 00:14:29,132 --> 00:14:32,880 the root of, okay, but if I'm not here, what does that mean? 231 00:14:33,580 --> 00:14:37,280 Absolutely. And I'll just add real quickly here that 232 00:14:38,220 --> 00:14:41,012 I, growing up and, you know, 233 00:14:41,116 --> 00:14:44,292 through. Through adolescence and all 234 00:14:44,316 --> 00:14:47,700 through my 20s, I never had a fear 235 00:14:47,780 --> 00:14:52,004 of death. But let me tell you, when I 236 00:14:52,172 --> 00:14:56,120 had my son, when I gave birth to my son in my early 30s, 237 00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:00,300 boy did that change. And it was 238 00:15:00,340 --> 00:15:04,044 a fear. Right. I think you had even mentioned 239 00:15:04,092 --> 00:15:07,720 it. It wasn't so much a fear of my own 240 00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:12,300 extinction, but the idea of what 241 00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:15,708 would happen to him if I 242 00:15:15,764 --> 00:15:19,420 abruptly left the world. So in 243 00:15:19,460 --> 00:15:23,562 that sense, yeah, fear of. Of extinction, 244 00:15:23,626 --> 00:15:27,226 I guess, has been a big one for me. And I didn't even fully 245 00:15:27,258 --> 00:15:30,858 realize it until you had just said that a moment ago, so. Oh, 246 00:15:30,874 --> 00:15:33,390 wow. Yeah. Yep. 247 00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:37,610 Okay. So the next. 248 00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:41,674 The next example is that what he calls that fear of mutilation 249 00:15:41,722 --> 00:15:46,314 or body invasion. And I. 250 00:15:46,482 --> 00:15:52,300 I hate the term because. Because it just feels so gruesome. 251 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,760 But it is things like, if you think of the fears that people have, 252 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,824 it could be an easy 253 00:16:00,872 --> 00:16:04,648 one that I can think of is like our mailman. He. 254 00:16:04,784 --> 00:16:07,100 He is petrified of dogs. 255 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,824 Reason being, he got bit when he was younger. 256 00:16:10,952 --> 00:16:14,626 So that makes sense. I mean, that's sure, you know, 257 00:16:14,778 --> 00:16:18,130 you're not. You don't feel in control. You. You have this 258 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:20,990 animal kind of invade your space and hurt you. 259 00:16:22,170 --> 00:16:25,122 I think that happens around, you know, 260 00:16:25,146 --> 00:16:28,914 arachnophobia, where they've got, people are afraid of spiders or bugs 261 00:16:28,962 --> 00:16:30,110 or things like that. 262 00:16:32,570 --> 00:16:36,162 What do

you think of in this category? What are some of the things that 263 00:16:36,186 --> 00:16:40,162 come up for you? Sure. Some of the things that come 264 00:16:40,186 --> 00:16:43,410 up for me with regard to my practice. And again, 265 00:16:43,450 --> 00:16:47,592 I. I'm probably speaking a little bit more right now to 266 00:16:47,776 --> 00:16:49,740 my hypnotherapy practice. 267 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,824 But what immediately came up for me when I was reading 268 00:16:54,872 --> 00:16:58,536 this was I had a lot of people come to me 269 00:16:58,608 --> 00:17:00,260 with fear of. 270 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,608 Well, in general medical settings. But to get a little more 271 00:17:05,664 --> 00:17:09,100 specific, I would say things like fear of germs, 272 00:17:09,850 --> 00:17:12,790 fear of needles. Okay. 273 00:17:13,370 --> 00:17:17,730 And so I think that's what I think of when. 274 00:17:17,850 --> 00:17:22,322 Or those are some of the top, top ones that I think of in 275 00:17:22,346 --> 00:17:26,110 terms of these, again, these common fears that we might all have. 276 00:17:26,890 --> 00:17:30,110 Some just are probably a little more intense than others. 277 00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:35,442 I'll also share that with regard 278 00:17:35,506 --> 00:17:38,588 to. To medical settings and 279 00:17:38,644 --> 00:17:43,280 medical procedures. So. So I never realized 280 00:17:43,940 --> 00:17:48,480 that I have a huge aversion 281 00:17:49,380 --> 00:17:53,356 to medical environments and medical 282 00:17:53,428 --> 00:17:56,920 procedures until probably about 283 00:17:57,220 --> 00:18:00,940 eight years ago when at 284 00:18:00,980 --> 00:18:04,284 around the same time, both of my parents started. Started having 285 00:18:04,372 --> 00:18:08,172 some. Some pretty, you know, serious medical 286 00:18:08,276 --> 00:18:11,628 issues. And I felt 287 00:18:11,724 --> 00:18:15,884 like I was just myself 288 00:18:15,932 --> 00:18:19,960 and my siblings were in the hospital all the time with them 289 00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:25,052 for. For various reasons. And I 290 00:18:25,156 --> 00:18:28,680 never realized how 291 00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:32,836 much of an aversion I have to that type of 292 00:18:32,908 --> 00:18:36,760 setting. And I remember 293 00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:40,360 noticing it because I would watch my sister, 294 00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:44,280 who just seemed much more comfortable. 295 00:18:46,060 --> 00:18:49,636 Not that she liked it. Right. But much more comfortable 296 00:18:49,668 --> 00:18:53,508 in that setting than. Than I 297 00:18:53,564 --> 00:18:57,180 was. And so that was, that was. That was kind of an eye opener for 298 00:18:57,220 --> 00:18:59,320 me. For me as well. 299 00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:04,188 Yeah. And I'm curious. You're making me 300 00:19:04,244 --> 00:19:07,980 think about the connection to the medical setting 301 00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:11,000 and to. To the concept of that fear of death. 302 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,836 And for you is, did those two connect or are they. 303 00:19:15,988 --> 00:19:19,240 No. Are they independent? Okay, no, for me, 304 00:19:21,470 --> 00:19:26,646 maybe more connected to fear, 305 00:19:26,758 --> 00:19:30,262 fear of germs, like be being in a hospital setting. 306 00:19:30,406 --> 00:19:34,022 But then also. Yeah, 307 00:19:34,086 --> 00:19:35,690 not. It's. 308 00:19:37,390 --> 00:19:42,950 It's hard to explain, but when 309 00:19:42,990 --> 00:19:46,246 I would witness like a medical. Even something 310 00:19:46,318 --> 00:19:49,600 as simple as, like, let's say, say my mom would 311 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,700 have to have her blood drawn in the hospital, 312 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,424 I noticed I would just have this very visceral reaction 313 00:19:57,472 --> 00:19:59,340 to having to watch that. 314 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,136 So it wasn't that in that moment, like, I was concerned, 315 00:20:05,328 --> 00:20:09,168 you know, for her 316 00:20:09,224 --> 00:20:12,656 safety or anything like that it was more 317 00:20:12,808 --> 00:20:16,248 just the, The. The idea of it and 318 00:20:16,304 --> 00:20:20,660 maybe the slight, you know, pain that might be associated too, 319 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,376 for her, like being an empath, you know, 320 00:20:24,448 --> 00:20:27,032 like kind of feeling into that. 321 00:20:27,136 --> 00:20:28,860 So. Yeah, 322 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,120 yeah, there's. I see that a lot. And I mean, we could 323 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,780 probably do a whole episode on medical fear. 324 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,122 I've got a couple of people who. That is something that 325 00:20:43,146 --> 00:20:46,110 we've worked a lot on and continue to. 326 00:20:46,890 --> 00:20:50,418 Whether it's like you said, the fear, it could be of 327 00:20:50,474 --> 00:20:53,986 needles, it could be someone else's pain, 328 00:20:54,178 --> 00:20:56,850 the germs. I mean, 329 00:20:56,970 --> 00:21:00,162 it's. As soon as. If I go 330 00:21:00,186 --> 00:21:03,922 to the doctor's office, the first thing I do is I'm washing my 331 00:21:03,946 --> 00:21:07,528 hands as soon as I'm out of there. Right. You know, 332 00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:11,036 and. And just being, I think, more hyper aware 333 00:21:11,148 --> 00:21:14,764 to that if. And so 334 00:21:14,772 --> 00:21:19,068 I think it's something. And, And I've. I've had people where they 335 00:21:19,124 --> 00:21:22,684 really want to take care of themselves, but the fear 336 00:21:22,732 --> 00:21:26,732 is so great that they, they really struggle to get beyond it. 337 00:21:26,916 --> 00:21:30,332 Um, and, And I won't go into the strategies, you know, 338 00:21:30,356 --> 00:21:34,214 right now, but I mean, that is something that I 339 00:21:34,222 --> 00:21:37,750 think definitely ties in, is this feels like a big one 340 00:21:37,790 --> 00:21:40,810 for a lot of people. Yeah, agreed. 341 00:21:41,470 -->

00:21:45,206 Okay. The next 342 00:21:45,358 --> 00:21:48,326 category is. And I think this is. 343 00:21:48,398 --> 00:21:51,974 I mean, the next three, I think is what we see the most of 344 00:21:52,062 --> 00:21:56,518 in our practices. But that next one is that loss of autonomy. 345 00:21:56,694 --> 00:22:00,330 And I know when I think of autonomy, 346 00:22:01,180 --> 00:22:04,500 I think of a. I think of it on the level of like, 347 00:22:04,540 --> 00:22:08,516 maybe my body, but also autonomy, 348 00:22:08,628 --> 00:22:12,228 whether that's, you know, can I. 349 00:22:12,364 --> 00:22:15,844 How long before I'm not able to take care of myself anymore? 350 00:22:15,892 --> 00:22:19,280 Right. Yes. You know how. 351 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:24,452 I know for some people, it's like 352 00:22:24,476 --> 00:22:27,898 claustrophobia, feeling, like, trapped. Mm. 353 00:22:27,994 --> 00:22:31,514 Mm. So I'm curious, what are. 354 00:22:31,602 --> 00:22:34,986 When we think of autonomy, what are some of the things that you think of 355 00:22:35,058 --> 00:22:38,890 about the. I would say that 356 00:22:38,930 --> 00:22:42,650 the, The. The immediate thing that comes to 357 00:22:42,690 --> 00:22:46,490 my mind is the fear 358 00:22:46,570 --> 00:22:47,950 of aging. 359 00:22:49,890 --> 00:22:54,010 And I. It's interesting because I 360 00:22:54,050 --> 00:22:57,348 have questions. Quite a number of clients right 361 00:22:57,404 --> 00:23:00,468 now that are, you know, 362 00:23:00,524 --> 00:23:03,652 they're older than me. They're. I have a couple of clients 363 00:23:03,716 --> 00:23:07,348 that are in their 70s. I have quite a few 364 00:23:07,484 --> 00:23:12,516 in their. In their 60s. But it. 365 00:23:12,668 --> 00:23:16,360 We certainly have conversations 366 00:23:17,020 --> 00:23:23,072 in therapy just about their. 367 00:23:23,256 --> 00:23:26,240 Their concerns, their fears. Right. 368 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,860 And I agree with you. I think they're fit. Yes, they're physical. 369 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,140 But I almost hear more about the fear of, 370 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,620 like, starting to go into 371 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,960 some cognitive decline. I think that 372 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,896 that can be almost, you know, just as fearful if not more 373 00:23:46,968 --> 00:23:50,640 for some people. Not for everybody, of course. Course. Right. 374 00:23:51,340 --> 00:23:55,140 Yeah. So those. I. I'm really 375 00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:59,492 honored, actually, to work with 376 00:23:59,676 --> 00:24:03,360 some people that are in their 70s, because, 377 00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:07,412 you know, A, they've lived a long time, they have a lot of wisdom to 378 00:24:07,436 --> 00:24:11,204 share, but, B, I feel honored to kind of be going through 379 00:24:11,372 --> 00:24:14,948 this phase of life with them where 380 00:24:15,004 --> 00:24:17,580 they know. Right. Like, 381 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:21,692 yeah. I mean,

time is ticking. And what. How do 382 00:24:21,716 --> 00:24:25,404 they want to spend. Whether it's, you know, how do they want to 383 00:24:25,412 --> 00:24:28,200 spend their retirement? How do they want to spend their days? 384 00:24:30,580 --> 00:24:33,468 Are their values changing? Right. 385 00:24:33,524 --> 00:24:36,620 Like, maybe they were workaholics when they were younger, and now 386 00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:41,084 they're. They're really more looking at. 387 00:24:41,252 --> 00:24:45,486 Yeah. You know, how do I connect with. 388 00:24:45,558 --> 00:24:47,170 With my loved ones? 389 00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:53,770 But. But underlying all that. Right. I think is just this, 390 00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:57,614 you know, this fear of loss of autonomy. 391 00:24:57,742 --> 00:25:00,450 It is. It is a big one. Yeah. Yeah. 392 00:25:01,270 --> 00:25:04,730 It's kind of interesting. One of the things that's. That's come up 393 00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:08,866 for me as we're talking is A, 394 00:25:08,998 --> 00:25:13,178 in terms of autonomy is in. In terms of relationships. 395 00:25:13,354 --> 00:25:16,698 And some people have that fear of 396 00:25:16,754 --> 00:25:20,554 commitment. And actually in that relationship could be a personal relationship, 397 00:25:20,602 --> 00:25:24,858 like with a, you know, a partner. It could be with employment. 398 00:25:25,034 --> 00:25:28,954 Um, I know I experienced that at. At one point when I was 399 00:25:29,042 --> 00:25:32,442 very young. I was thinking of. I had quit my job when 400 00:25:32,466 --> 00:25:35,722 I lived in San Diego, and I realized as I 401 00:25:35,746 --> 00:25:38,824 was interviewing and getting job offers that I couldn't commit. 402 00:25:38,962 --> 00:25:41,996 And. And they were, you know, they were good offers. 403 00:25:42,028 --> 00:25:45,740 And. And I'm in my head, I'm like, why am I not being 404 00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:49,628 able to say yes to one of these? Like, I need a job. And I 405 00:25:49,684 --> 00:25:53,600 came to the conclusion because I didn't really want to live there anymore. 406 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:57,320 And it was hard to put the two together. 407 00:25:57,780 --> 00:26:01,868 But thinking of that commitment, it makes 408 00:26:01,924 --> 00:26:05,884 me think of the next grouping, which is the separation, 409 00:26:06,012 --> 00:26:09,480 abandonment, and rejection. Because I. I do think 410 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,380 those can go hand in hand. 411 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,728 Absolutely. Yeah. I think all of these, in some 412 00:26:16,784 --> 00:26:20,140 one way or another, can be connected. Right? Yeah. 413 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,300 And I don't know about you, but I see. 414 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,880 I feel like this one is. Is a big one. Because if 415 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,704 we think about separation, if we think about 416 00:26:31,792 --> 00:26:35,728 abandonment, rejection, and the world that we live in now. 417 00:26:35,784 --> 00:26:39,088 Right. You and I have talked. I mean, this is part of why we even 418 00:26:39,144 --> 00:26:42,640 started this podcast. I mean, I think we talked about this in our 419 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,984 introduction is that idea of connectedness and wanting 420 00:26:46,032 --> 00:26:50,272 to. Not just you and I connect, but. But connecting with 421 00:26:50,376 --> 00:26:54,000 our listeners, with, you know, more people out there than just our client 422 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,060 base. And I feel like this is. 423 00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:03,850 You know, this is really important because as 424 00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:07,322 much as. And. And I can say being an introvert, like, it drives me 425 00:27:07,346 --> 00:27:10,954 nuts because I need my downtime. Um, and I'll. And I'm fine 426 00:27:11,002 --> 00:27:14,778 being alone, but I do need those 427 00:27:14,834 --> 00:27:19,030 relationships in my life. And there does come. 428 00:27:20,530 --> 00:27:23,850 I mean, there's risk with that. Right. Because what happens 429 00:27:24,010 --> 00:27:28,050 if that relationship ends 430 00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:32,174 somehow? Whether that's. It ends because of death, 431 00:27:32,262 --> 00:27:35,050 whether it ends because you guys have a falling out, 432 00:27:36,390 --> 00:27:39,570 that's kind of real stuff. 433 00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:47,290 Absolutely. You know, this one, for me, 434 00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:51,262 the. The separation, fear of separation, 435 00:27:51,326 --> 00:27:55,198 abandonment and rejection. And then the. His final. His final 436 00:27:55,254 --> 00:27:59,422 category. Humiliation, shame, without a doubt. For me, 437 00:27:59,526 --> 00:28:03,486 these are the top two that I 438 00:28:03,558 --> 00:28:07,406 feel my clients are coming to me with again. 439 00:28:07,478 --> 00:28:10,830 And I know I've said this in previous episodes, but I'm not saying 440 00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:14,718 that my clients are coming to me saying I 441 00:28:14,774 --> 00:28:18,398 have this real fear of abandonment, and I want to work through it now. 442 00:28:18,454 --> 00:28:22,238 Sometimes they are, but it's not even on their radar that that 443 00:28:22,294 --> 00:28:25,170 may be what is going on for them. 444 00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:28,838 And I know I've talked also 445 00:28:28,894 --> 00:28:32,486 a lot about the inner dialog that 446 00:28:32,558 --> 00:28:36,450 I think we can get hooked into without even realizing it. 447 00:28:37,390 --> 00:28:41,078 I really feel that 448 00:28:41,134 --> 00:28:44,342 the. This. This underlying idea 449 00:28:44,406 --> 00:28:47,910 of I'm not lovable or 450 00:28:47,950 --> 00:28:50,930 I don't deserve love. 451 00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:56,374 I think it comes up a lot in. 452 00:28:56,462 --> 00:29:00,022 In my sessions, but sometimes it takes a little time to kind 453 00:29:00,046 --> 00:29:02,930 of unravel, like, what. 454 00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:06,410 What's going on beneath the

narrative. 455 00:29:06,750 --> 00:29:09,690 Right. And once we start to unravel the narrative, 456 00:29:10,910 --> 00:29:14,650 fear of abandonment and rejection. 457 00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:17,940 It's a big one. Yeah. Yeah, 458 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,936 it's. It's interesting, too, because I think. I mean, 459 00:29:22,008 --> 00:29:25,580 it's very interesting when we have these conversations, because I think about. 460 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,512 You know, you'll often say, like, I think you said this in one of the 461 00:29:28,536 --> 00:29:32,784 first episodes, where people don't necessarily 462 00:29:32,832 --> 00:29:35,968 come in and say, you know, I'm. I feel like I'm 463 00:29:35,984 --> 00:29:39,632 not lovable or I'm not enough. 464 00:29:39,736 --> 00:29:42,976 But in the EMDR world, you know, 465 00:29:43,048 --> 00:29:46,416 part of what I do is I. I get them to that point where they're 466 00:29:46,448 --> 00:29:50,700 really kneeling down that. Pinpointing that negative 467 00:29:50,780 --> 00:29:55,452 cognition and to what 468 00:29:55,476 --> 00:29:59,920 I find that happens a lot of times when the abandonment 469 00:30:00,260 --> 00:30:04,040 or rejection comes up is when someone is. 470 00:30:05,860 --> 00:30:09,292 When they're in a relationship. Again, it doesn't necessarily have to be 471 00:30:09,316 --> 00:30:12,588 a romantic relationship, but when that 472 00:30:12,644 --> 00:30:16,652 relationship becomes more intimate or there's. You know, 473 00:30:16,676 --> 00:30:19,676 as we've talked. I think we. We talked about this in our last episode, 474 00:30:19,708 --> 00:30:23,200 that idea of vulnerability and being your authentic Self 475 00:30:23,860 --> 00:30:27,132 that can bring these fears up in a 476 00:30:27,156 --> 00:30:30,716 huge way because, you know, you're taking 477 00:30:30,788 --> 00:30:34,060 that risk and you're saying, okay, I'm gonna let you see me as I am, 478 00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:37,596 and what if you decide to leave? Or what if you don't 479 00:30:37,628 --> 00:30:38,360 like it? 480 00:30:39,940 --> 00:30:43,498 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I might be wrong about this, Sarah, 481 00:30:43,514 --> 00:30:47,066 but I would almost say if we're being honest with ourselves, 482 00:30:47,178 --> 00:30:50,330 that's a universal fear at some 483 00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:53,322 point in our life. I mean, yes, I think that we've all felt that. 484 00:30:53,346 --> 00:30:56,282 I don't mean we're all walking around feeling that way all the time. In fact, 485 00:30:56,306 --> 00:31:00,090 I hope not. Right. Because that's, 486 00:31:00,170 --> 00:31:03,530 you know, that's, that's no way to live or to thrive. 487 00:31:03,610 --> 00:31:07,700 But I do feel like that's a, That's a universal 488 00:31:07,860 --> 00:31:10,520 fear. Yeah. Yeah. 489 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:14,676 When that last category that you, that you mentioned, 490 00:31:14,708 --> 00:31:17,480 the humiliation, shame and worthlessness, 491

00:31:19,820 --> 00:31:23,556 do you have examples of that? Because I, I view that 492 00:31:23,628 --> 00:31:27,480 as a fairly broad category, 493 00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:32,094 but I think there, there it can be really broken down 494 00:31:32,292 --> 00:31:35,722 into smaller chunks. And I didn't know if you had any thoughts on 495 00:31:35,746 --> 00:31:39,418 that. Yeah, I'm, I'm definitely on the same 496 00:31:39,474 --> 00:31:43,910 page here. This is a broad category, but again, one that 497 00:31:44,610 --> 00:31:47,914 I hear about all the time. So a couple of 498 00:31:47,922 --> 00:31:51,258 the things that came up for me in thinking about that 499 00:31:51,314 --> 00:31:55,258 category, I would put fear of failure 500 00:31:55,354 --> 00:31:58,826 in this category. And again, that's broad too. 501 00:31:58,898 --> 00:32:02,218 Right. But fear. But. So whether 502 00:32:02,274 --> 00:32:05,470 we're talking about fear of failing a relationship, 503 00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:09,690 fear of failing at your job, feel of trying, fear of 504 00:32:09,730 --> 00:32:12,746 trying something new like this podcast. 505 00:32:12,938 --> 00:32:16,922 Right. And, and, and it not, you know, not living 506 00:32:16,986 --> 00:32:21,190 up to whatever expectation you might have for it. 507 00:32:23,090 --> 00:32:26,730 Fear of failure is a big one, I think, 508 00:32:27,510 --> 00:32:32,130 related to that, you could maybe 509 00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:37,210 think of like, performance anxiety as. 510 00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:41,470 Yeah. As I, I certainly 511 00:32:41,550 --> 00:32:45,726 have worked with clients on very specific things that 512 00:32:45,798 --> 00:32:49,902 they were concerned about from a 513 00:32:49,926 --> 00:32:53,528 performance perspective. And again, now I'm 514 00:32:53,544 --> 00:32:57,320 thinking about my hypnotherapy practice, but I have one client 515 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,056 who is a moderator 516 00:33:02,248 --> 00:33:06,104 for his town, so he goes to the town meetings 517 00:33:06,152 --> 00:33:09,432 and he moderates. And we've done a lot 518 00:33:09,456 --> 00:33:12,776 of work around his fears. Right. Of, like, 519 00:33:12,848 --> 00:33:16,728 failing at that or like being at the meeting 520 00:33:16,784 --> 00:33:20,142 and suddenly just kind of like choking on 521 00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:24,302 his words or, you know, all these things. Fear of public 522 00:33:24,406 --> 00:33:27,930 speaking. Right. Like, these are all 523 00:33:28,390 --> 00:33:32,158 understandable things that, that so many 524 00:33:32,214 --> 00:33:35,774 of us take 525 00:33:35,862 --> 00:33:39,982 issue with. And I think that one of the reasons we're 526 00:33:40,126 --> 00:33:44,250 bringing these to the light is again, to show people that, 527 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,840 that we all have to. 528 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,968 One degree or another. Right. We all have these 529 00:33:53,024 --> 00:33:56,056 insecurities we all have these fears, right. 530 00:33:56,128 --> 00:33:59,592 And, and so hopefully soon here we 531 00:33:59,616 --> 00:34:03,240 can maybe get to talking about some ideas 532 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,808 we have on, on how to diminish. 533 00:34:06,904 --> 00:34:10,610 Right. Diminish fear and maybe step into something that 534 00:34:10,650 --> 00:34:14,226 feels better. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's 535 00:34:14,258 --> 00:34:18,190 a great segue because I think 536 00:34:19,690 --> 00:34:22,898 I even liked how you just phrased that, where I do think it's 537 00:34:22,914 --> 00:34:26,710 about feeling better. Because if you think of fear, 538 00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:31,230 even on a cellular level, it takes a lot of energy. 539 00:34:31,850 --> 00:34:36,236 I mean, when we're, when we're scared, when we're uncomfortable, 540 00:34:36,378 --> 00:34:39,592 you know, we might tense up or, you know, we're just kind 541 00:34:39,616 --> 00:34:44,024 of doing everything we can to keep it together, to get through whatever 542 00:34:44,072 --> 00:34:47,288 we're trying to get through. And I, 543 00:34:47,344 --> 00:34:50,360 I, I can tell you I've, I mean, 544 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,208 I want to hear from you first, like, what some of your strategies are, 545 00:34:53,264 --> 00:34:57,128 but there's definitely things that I've worked with, you know, 546 00:34:57,184 --> 00:35:01,336 suggested to people and even try to practice myself 547 00:35:01,528 --> 00:35:04,210 to, to reduce some of that anxiety. 548 00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:09,022 Sure. Yeah. Well, I will 549 00:35:09,126 --> 00:35:12,622 share the, the first one that I put on my list, and I know we 550 00:35:12,646 --> 00:35:14,490 probably won't get to all of them, 551 00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:18,686 but, you know, honestly, 552 00:35:18,798 --> 00:35:22,222 one of my top strategies is to use hypnosis 553 00:35:22,286 --> 00:35:26,574 or self hypnosis and hypnotherapy 554 00:35:26,622 --> 00:35:30,688 techniques. So the reason why I find 555 00:35:30,744 --> 00:35:35,300 hypnosis can be so incredibly useful and helpful, 556 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,488 in particular with reducing 557 00:35:39,584 --> 00:35:42,580 fears and phobias and things of that nature, 558 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,928 is that there's, so there's this really 559 00:35:46,984 --> 00:35:50,624 interesting thing that I think can happen when we 560 00:35:50,712 --> 00:35:54,800 combine cognitive 561 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,952 behavioral therapy techniques, when we combine kind 562 00:35:58,976 --> 00:36:02,264 of this idea of, okay, 563 00:36:02,312 --> 00:36:05,400 here's the negative thought, and I 564 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,872 want to reframe it and replace it, right, with a, 565 00:36:08,976 --> 00:36:12,840 with a better feeling and probably even more realistic 566 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,824 a lot of times. Thought. So that's in a nutshell, 567 00:36:16,952 --> 00:36:20,696 just a brief description, right, of

what cognitive behavioral therapy 568 00:36:20,728 --> 00:36:24,540 is. But when you combine that technique 569 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,760 of reframing with being in a really relaxed 570 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,880 state where, you know, your, 571 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,088 your body is slowing down, your conscious mind is slowing down, 572 00:36:36,144 --> 00:36:39,432 and it's giving your subconscious mind a chance to 573 00:36:39,456 --> 00:36:43,220 kind of come up to the surface and take in 574 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,736 some of these, these more accurate 575 00:36:47,848 --> 00:36:51,640 positive thoughts, it is a powerful, 576 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,410 powerful combination with regard to, 577 00:36:55,950 --> 00:36:58,934 to reducing fear. Hmm. I like that. 578 00:36:59,022 --> 00:37:02,342 I like that. And I, I hadn't thought about it from, 579 00:37:02,446 --> 00:37:06,022 like, I mean, it's not that I hadn't thought about 580 00:37:06,046 --> 00:37:09,174 it. I think it's, I wouldn't have verbalized it like you just did, which I 581 00:37:09,182 --> 00:37:13,126 think is really helpful because the cognitive behavioral piece 582 00:37:13,158 --> 00:37:17,046 I think is something that I think a lot of people use because, like we've 583 00:37:17,078 --> 00:37:21,322 talked before, you, you really want to restructure that 584 00:37:21,346 --> 00:37:23,910 thought pattern and that, you know, 585 00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:27,402 switch the negative to a positive, so to speak. But that 586 00:37:27,426 --> 00:37:31,178 makes a lot of sense. Like, the more relaxed you are, the more open 587 00:37:31,234 --> 00:37:34,122 you're going to be to adopting that. 588 00:37:34,306 --> 00:37:36,618 Exactly, exactly. 589 00:37:36,794 --> 00:37:39,786 Yeah. It's. 590 00:37:39,898 --> 00:37:43,242 That was, that was one of my solutions too, is, I mean, I think 591 00:37:43,266 --> 00:37:46,568 CBT is very helpful. Yeah. And, 592 00:37:46,714 --> 00:37:50,412 and maybe one of the things, and I'll be curious just to 593 00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:54,280 kind of throw out there to our listeners, if you want us to 594 00:37:54,820 --> 00:37:58,060 get more into examples in terms 595 00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:01,324 of like, what CBT strategies or, 596 00:38:01,412 --> 00:38:03,600 you know, what hypnosis strategies, 597 00:38:04,580 --> 00:38:07,564 feel free to email us or leave comments, you know, 598 00:38:07,572 --> 00:38:11,196 on your platform that you're listening. And, you know, we'd be happy to 599 00:38:11,268 --> 00:38:14,626 do more around that. I think the other 600 00:38:14,698 --> 00:38:17,870 thing, and I'm going to say this with caution because 601 00:38:18,490 --> 00:38:24,470 one of the things that I will do is gradually 602 00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:28,738 small depending on the person, how small, expose them 603 00:38:28,794 --> 00:38:32,514 to that fear. Yeah. And, and it's exposing them 604 00:38:32,682 --> 00:38:35,510 more sometimes

in the beginning to the, just the idea. 605 00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:40,432 So, you know, if you're afraid, if you're claustrophobic, I'm not going to say, 606 00:38:40,456 --> 00:38:44,560 okay, you know, go crawl into that cubby hole right now for two 607 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,620 hours. Right. For two hours. Right. 608 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,528 But I think that's a good first step. And, and I think it's really 609 00:38:52,584 --> 00:38:55,360 just identifying, okay, what, 610 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,480 what is my fear, but what's at the root of my fear? Where and where 611 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,432 does this come from? Right. And I'll often tell people, I guess part of that 612 00:39:02,456 --> 00:39:06,176 exposure is, and we've, we've talked about this, this is generally 613 00:39:06,208 --> 00:39:10,670 something we say almost every episode where it's that idea of self reflection 614 00:39:11,650 --> 00:39:15,178 and self assessment and really kind of drilling down. 615 00:39:15,314 --> 00:39:18,682 And I will often suggest to people almost to kind 616 00:39:18,706 --> 00:39:22,202 of keep like a journal or a record so that 617 00:39:22,226 --> 00:39:25,930 they can start to see patterns, especially if one of those things is to 618 00:39:25,970 --> 00:39:29,098 desensitize them to it so they can actually also 619 00:39:29,154 --> 00:39:32,922 see some measurable progress. So, you know, for example, 620 00:39:32,986 --> 00:39:36,528 if, if I'm 621 00:39:36,544 --> 00:39:39,952 trying to think of a good example, you know, walking into the 622 00:39:39,976 --> 00:39:43,408 grocery store, if the thought of it, just the thought of it puts 623 00:39:43,424 --> 00:39:47,120 you at a 10 out of 10, you know, worst case scenario, 624 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,888 10 being the worst. Okay, 625 00:39:49,984 --> 00:39:52,620 let's, let's work on getting you down to a nine. 626 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,272 And maybe we, we just talk about it for a little bit. 627 00:39:56,296 --> 00:39:58,896 We're not, I'm not gonna tell you to go to the store Right now, 628 00:39:58,968 --> 00:40:03,344 I'm not gonna tell you to, you know, go in and do a full shop. 629 00:40:03,472 --> 00:40:07,120 Let's just. Let's just talk about that and try to get that distress 630 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,220 scale down. 631 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,112 Yeah, absolutely, Sarah. And, you know, 632 00:40:14,136 --> 00:40:17,552 I'll piggyback on that technique for 633 00:40:17,576 --> 00:40:20,896 a minute and give another one 634 00:40:20,968 --> 00:40:25,056 that. That. I know. I. I think we talked about this in our first episode, 635 00:40:25,248 --> 00:40:30,664 but it's an interesting segue 636 00:40:30,712 --> 00:40:34,408 into another technique, because on the surface, these are going to 637 00:40:34,464 --> 00:40:37,816 sound very different from, like, what you just shared, 638 00:40:37,928 --> 00:40:40,808 but I actually think there's a way to combine them.

639 00:40:40,944 --> 00:40:45,512 So this exposure, whatever you want to call it, exposure therapy. 640 00:40:45,576 --> 00:40:49,192 Right. Or just kind of dipping your toe into the water as 641 00:40:49,216 --> 00:40:52,520 you're talking about, to really, what I think 642 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,482 you're. You're saying is like shining 643 00:40:56,546 --> 00:41:00,002 the light on the fear in 644 00:41:00,106 --> 00:41:03,634 small ways so that it can start to release. Right? 645 00:41:03,722 --> 00:41:07,106 Yes. And so the strategy that it's making 646 00:41:07,178 --> 00:41:10,834 me think about, which on kind of seems very opposite, 647 00:41:10,882 --> 00:41:14,466 but is the 10,000 foot view 648 00:41:14,538 --> 00:41:18,450 strategy. Right. So we 649 00:41:18,490 --> 00:41:22,820 talked about. I think it was in our first session episode 650 00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:26,836 about this idea of when something is really. 651 00:41:26,908 --> 00:41:30,660 If we're having a really intense emotion about something. 652 00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:34,660 So in this case, let's say it's fear. I had 653 00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:38,720 briefly talked about this. This technique of 654 00:41:40,140 --> 00:41:43,668 visualizing you yourself 655 00:41:43,764 --> 00:41:47,540 actually, like whether. And there's so many different ways to do it. 656 00:41:47,580 --> 00:41:51,332 You could hop in a plane, you could suddenly sprout wings, you could 657 00:41:51,356 --> 00:41:56,502 just jump real high. But the idea is that you distance 658 00:41:56,566 --> 00:42:00,290 yourself. You really take this big picture view, 659 00:42:00,990 --> 00:42:05,254 whatever is coming up for you, so that it's not 660 00:42:05,342 --> 00:42:09,462 right in front of you. And what 661 00:42:09,486 --> 00:42:12,934 I was just thinking about when you were. When you were talking 662 00:42:12,982 --> 00:42:17,250 about your technique is maybe there's a way to 663 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,840 take that 10,000 foot view for a moment. 664 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,232 Right. Like, temporarily, so that you can gain 665 00:42:25,296 --> 00:42:28,752 perspective, so you can, you know, perhaps look 666 00:42:28,776 --> 00:42:32,224 at this fear in a slightly different way, a slightly diminished 667 00:42:32,272 --> 00:42:36,640 way, and then come 668 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,336 back down and. And dip 669 00:42:40,368 --> 00:42:44,220 your toe into the water, so to speak, where you're actually, 670 00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:49,198 you know, facing the fear in a gentle way. 671 00:42:49,254 --> 00:42:52,750 Like you said, you may not be ready to walk into 672 00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:56,110 that grocery store if that's terrifying for you. Right. 673 00:42:56,150 --> 00:43:00,046 But. But maybe you'll be ready to journal 674 00:43:00,118 --> 00:43:03,694 about it. Or you could do a guided. 675 00:43:03,822 --> 00:43:07,966 Perhaps like a guided visualization on walking 676 00:43:07,998 --> 00:43:10,930 into the store. Yes. 677 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,540 Yeah. Feeling centered. 678 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,232 So. So yeah, it's just an interesting 679 00:43:19,296 --> 00:43:23,312 way to think about kind 680 00:43:23,336 --> 00:43:27,856 of like interweaving between stepping 681 00:43:27,888 --> 00:43:32,304 into the fear. Yes. But then also pulling 682 00:43:32,352 --> 00:43:35,856 back. Right, right. And I'm. And I'm thinking 683 00:43:35,888 --> 00:43:39,200 that would also not thinking. I mean, 684 00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:42,960 it does. It calms your, Your, Your system down 685 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,640 because you're not in the 686 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,192 muck of all that. It's that distance, 687 00:43:50,256 --> 00:43:53,300 like you said, that you have from it. Correct. 688 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,600 You know, it's interesting, as you were talking, one of the things that I thought 689 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,368 about was the. 690 00:44:02,424 --> 00:44:05,248 And, And I think you, you actually brought this up in a, In a different 691 00:44:05,304 --> 00:44:09,140 context between the two of us. But the idea of a container 692 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,376 and in emdr, it. That is. 693 00:44:13,448 --> 00:44:16,912 So there's two things that we generally will set 694 00:44:16,936 --> 00:44:20,080 up. Either a calm place or a container. And the 695 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,580 idea is to keep someone grounded so if they start to really dysregulate. 696 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,224 And the idea of the container, 697 00:44:28,272 --> 00:44:31,376 because I'm thinking about this, like, what happens if someone is 698 00:44:31,448 --> 00:44:34,590 truly debilitated by fear? 699 00:44:35,090 --> 00:44:38,602 You know, like they, they just. And, and say. All of a 700 00:44:38,626 --> 00:44:42,618 sudden, you know, you're. Say you're at work and something 701 00:44:42,674 --> 00:44:46,570 happens and sets you off in terms 702 00:44:46,610 --> 00:44:50,634 of your own issue around fear. And it. You feel like you can't. 703 00:44:50,762 --> 00:44:53,914 Like you're frozen. Your fight or flight kicks in. Like, oh my gosh, what do 704 00:44:53,922 --> 00:44:57,870 I do? And I think this is a good technique 705 00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:01,492 where the container comes in. Because at least 706 00:45:01,516 --> 00:45:05,412 with the mdr, the idea is you put it in your container, it's safe. 707 00:45:05,476 --> 00:45:08,308 Like you're safe from it. It's safe from you, 708 00:45:08,364 --> 00:45:12,148 whatever. No one else can access 709 00:45:12,204 --> 00:45:15,960 it, they're not going to mess with it. But then you bring it to session 710 00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:19,732 the next time so that we can go through 711 00:45:19,756 --> 00:45:23,604 it together and we can use the techniques that. Through EMDR 712 00:45:23,652 --> 00:45:27,904 to work through that. And I'm 713 00:45:27,952 --> 00:45:31,500 wondering if you have

anything that's similar to that. 714 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,616 Yeah. And first I'd like just to say. So that's. Yeah. 715 00:45:35,648 --> 00:45:39,340 I love this idea. It's beautiful. Right? It's. It's the idea of 716 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,672 putting, Putting something. Putting a really intense 717 00:45:44,736 --> 00:45:47,380 feeling, let's say, in a compartment, 718 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,728 but not putting it in the compartment forever. 719 00:45:51,824 --> 00:45:54,778 Right. Right. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So. 720 00:45:54,834 --> 00:45:58,202 Right. So the idea is we put 721 00:45:58,226 --> 00:46:01,450 it in the compartment until we are 722 00:46:01,490 --> 00:46:05,018 in a safe place, whether. 723 00:46:05,154 --> 00:46:09,130 When we're in a centered place where we can then 724 00:46:09,170 --> 00:46:13,274 take it out of the compartment to gently 725 00:46:13,322 --> 00:46:17,018 shine the light on it. Yes. To start to look 726 00:46:17,074 --> 00:46:20,700 at it to. Because that's the 727 00:46:20,740 --> 00:46:24,140 way our fear can start 728 00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:28,460 to release. And that's the power of fear 729 00:46:28,540 --> 00:46:31,916 too. Right. Is that it feels. 730 00:46:32,028 --> 00:46:36,268 It can feel so debilitating that of course, 731 00:46:36,404 --> 00:46:39,740 it's human nature to want to put it in that 732 00:46:39,780 --> 00:46:43,960 compartment and to run from it and not look at it again. 733 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,192 Exactly. If it's under that rug, no one sees it. 734 00:46:48,376 --> 00:46:51,648 We don't have to think about it. We don't have to worry about it until 735 00:46:51,704 --> 00:46:54,660 it blows up. Yes. Yeah. 736 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,056 And so the only thing I would add, you know, to your question. 737 00:46:59,128 --> 00:47:02,672 Do I have an example of maybe how I would use a container? 738 00:47:02,816 --> 00:47:08,192 I certainly sometimes use it in hypnosis. 739 00:47:08,336 --> 00:47:11,616 Okay. Because it can be a pretty powerful thing to 740 00:47:11,688 --> 00:47:16,344 be in a relaxed state and 741 00:47:16,512 --> 00:47:19,780 do the. Do this process. Right. Of, 742 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,860 you know, maybe. Maybe before the session started, 743 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:28,472 your. Your fear is at a nine. But then as we do, 744 00:47:28,496 --> 00:47:32,740 a progressive relaxation and as your body starts to slow down 745 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,952 and as your conscious thoughts, those fearful 746 00:47:37,016 --> 00:47:40,512 thoughts begin to slow down, that's a 747 00:47:40,536 --> 00:47:44,976 great time maybe to inspect whatever 748 00:47:45,008 --> 00:47:48,448 is in that container. Nice. 749 00:47:48,544 --> 00:47:51,552 I like that. Start to release it. Yeah. Yeah. 750 00:47:51,696 --> 00:47:55,712 Okay. Do you have any other 751 00:47:55,896 --> 00:47:59,740 strategies that you want to put out there for people? 752 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,080 I'll just mention one other one now. Now, of course, 753 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:09,160 there's many. Right. But I 754 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,520 will mention one other one, and this is going to 755 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,800 sound. Sometimes when I talk to my therapy clients about this, 756 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,576 I'm like, I know this is simple, but it's not 757 00:48:19,648 --> 00:48:24,488 always easy. Okay. So one 758 00:48:24,544 --> 00:48:28,540 thing that I. One tool I find that can be very powerful 759 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,660 are mantras or just affirmations. 760 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:35,896 And it's kind of a lofty term, right. 761 00:48:35,968 --> 00:48:39,340 It's. It's like, oh, yeah, sure, those daily affirmations. 762 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,864 But the idea is that we, 763 00:48:43,952 --> 00:48:48,216 you know, I think that we spend 764 00:48:48,328 --> 00:48:52,104 so much time, maybe without even realizing it 765 00:48:52,272 --> 00:48:56,408 in our minds, focusing on the negative, 766 00:48:56,504 --> 00:49:00,620 focusing on the fear that are, 767 00:49:00,740 --> 00:49:04,760 you know, we don't even. I, I think sometimes we don't realize really 768 00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:09,640 how much of our brain space is taken up with. 769 00:49:10,100 --> 00:49:13,640 With fear. And so 770 00:49:14,740 --> 00:49:18,732 I sometimes use, whether it's in therapy or hypnotherapy, 771 00:49:18,796 --> 00:49:23,360 some really simple and powerful 772 00:49:24,580 --> 00:49:27,906 affirmations or mantras. And I will suggest 773 00:49:27,978 --> 00:49:31,394 to clients that just there's no secret number. 774 00:49:31,482 --> 00:49:34,834 They don't have to. They don't have to think it 30 775 00:49:34,922 --> 00:49:38,610 times a day or anything like that. But just as you're moving through 776 00:49:38,650 --> 00:49:39,470 their day, 777 00:49:42,170 --> 00:49:45,842 perhaps you say to yourself, so here's a really powerful one. 778 00:49:45,866 --> 00:49:49,106 And it's so simple. I am 779 00:49:49,258 --> 00:49:52,738 safe. Now, assuming you're 780 00:49:52,754 --> 00:49:56,202 not in immediate crisis. Right, right. I'm obviously not talking 781 00:49:56,266 --> 00:50:00,362 about immediate crisis, but for 782 00:50:00,386 --> 00:50:03,354 the most part. Right. Most of the time, 783 00:50:03,522 --> 00:50:07,194 you know, you. And, and, and sometimes you can go a little step. You can 784 00:50:07,202 --> 00:50:11,230 take it a step further, and you can say, I am physically safe. 785 00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:15,230 I am emotionally safe. 786 00:50:15,570 --> 00:50:19,114 I Am mentally safe, meaning I am practicing, 787 00:50:19,242 --> 00:50:22,608 like, healthy thoughts. 788 00:50:22,704 --> 00:50:26,832 Right. Or I am leaning into a healthy 789 00:50:26,896 --> 00:50:30,420 emotion. So safety. 790 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:35,952 I guess this gets back to the very first category of 791 00:50:36,136 --> 00:50:39,712

fear of extinction. Safety. Safety is 792 00:50:39,736 --> 00:50:42,880 a big one that I use. Very similar. 793 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,474 It's. It's. Well, not similar, 794 00:50:46,562 --> 00:50:50,570 but it's as powerful as I am enough. And I know I've mentioned that 795 00:50:50,610 --> 00:50:54,618 before, too. Yeah. But it's. It's in that 796 00:50:54,754 --> 00:50:58,042 same realm of a very, very powerful 797 00:50:58,106 --> 00:51:01,578 thing that if you start really leaning into 798 00:51:01,634 --> 00:51:05,130 that, I think 799 00:51:05,170 --> 00:51:07,786 it can start to shift. Right. 800 00:51:07,938 --> 00:51:12,050 Slowly but surely. I'm not saying that these things are going to happen overnight. 801 00:51:12,170 --> 00:51:16,310 Right. And that you're going to say I'm safe a couple times, and then suddenly. 802 00:51:16,810 --> 00:51:20,626 I'm certainly not saying that. That's really. 803 00:51:20,698 --> 00:51:24,578 Thank you for bringing that up, because that made me 804 00:51:24,634 --> 00:51:28,034 think of one. I think I do something similar, 805 00:51:28,122 --> 00:51:32,210 but I word it differently where I encourage 806 00:51:32,290 --> 00:51:34,950 people to set an intention. 807 00:51:35,930 --> 00:51:39,698 So, for example, I had gone, not last summer, 808 00:51:39,714 --> 00:51:43,566 but the summer before, I had gone out to Colorado 809 00:51:43,598 --> 00:51:47,774 for a conference. And that last 810 00:51:47,862 --> 00:51:50,690 category, the humiliation, shame, and worthlessness, 811 00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:54,734 really popped up for me, and I wasn't anticipating 812 00:51:54,782 --> 00:51:58,446 it at all. And it was incredibly 813 00:51:58,478 --> 00:52:02,330 overwhelming. It was very overstimulating because there was so much going on. 814 00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:05,870 And after my first day, I woke up in the morning and I 815 00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:08,892 said, okay, how am I going to get through this? 816 00:52:09,006 --> 00:52:12,320 Because I want to learn. That's why I'm here. I want 817 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,432 to connect. But there's a lot of things that are coming up. 818 00:52:16,616 --> 00:52:20,592 And every day was different. But I would start, 819 00:52:20,776 --> 00:52:24,340 and I. I said, my intention today is to be calm. 820 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,944 My intention today might be one day was to 821 00:52:28,952 --> 00:52:32,528 be open. Yes. And when I started to get 822 00:52:32,664 --> 00:52:36,400 anxious or feel dysregulated, when I would say that to 823 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,064 myself, it was amazing how I. 824 00:52:40,152 --> 00:52:43,632 How much better I felt. And like you said, 825 00:52:43,656 --> 00:52:47,312 there was no number to it. There was no magic number, like, say it 826 00:52:47,336 --> 00:52:50,944 30 times. You know, I'm pretty 827 00:52:50,992 --> 00:52:54,780 sure I probably incorporated some. Some breathing with that. 828 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,180 Not necessarily on a conscious level, 829 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,900 but I think, you know, part of what, 830 00:53:02,690 --> 00:53:06,602 even as I'm speaking now, what I'm realizing is 831 00:53:06,786 --> 00:53:10,442 so much of this is really digging in our 832 00:53:10,466 --> 00:53:13,802 toolbox of strategies and saying, okay, 833 00:53:13,866 --> 00:53:16,150 I'm gonna try it. Right. 834 00:53:17,410 --> 00:53:19,994 I'm open to trying. Right? 835 00:53:20,082 --> 00:53:23,834 Exactly. Exactly. Because I will say to people, 836 00:53:24,002 --> 00:53:27,930 you know, and I did this where I used to have people write things 837 00:53:27,970 --> 00:53:31,082 down, and I've done it myself, where it's like, okay, here are all my strategies. 838 00:53:31,146 --> 00:53:32,910 Because when you're scared, 839 00:53:34,020 --> 00:53:37,452 you aren't going to be able to think as clearly. It's not 840 00:53:37,476 --> 00:53:41,308 going to be as easy. So if you can just open your phone 841 00:53:41,484 --> 00:53:45,020 or, you know, wherever, if you have a sticky note that 842 00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:48,236 says, okay, you know, this is, this is the strategy 843 00:53:48,268 --> 00:53:51,420 I'm going to try right now. And you may try it and it might not 844 00:53:51,460 --> 00:53:54,940 work, and that's okay, well, let's go on to the next strategy. 845 00:53:55,100 --> 00:53:59,330 Yeah, but having that toolbox and 846 00:53:59,370 --> 00:54:02,190 knowing like, okay, I can pull some of this stuff out, 847 00:54:02,650 --> 00:54:07,106 I think is really. Is really helpful. And I think it's 848 00:54:07,138 --> 00:54:10,750 interesting as we're. What I've noticed today is we have 849 00:54:12,330 --> 00:54:15,710 drawn back on our previous episodes a lot 850 00:54:16,730 --> 00:54:20,610 and. But I think this one in particular with 851 00:54:20,650 --> 00:54:24,370 Fear for me personally, brings us back to that very first 852 00:54:24,410 --> 00:54:27,860 full episode of youf Are Not Alone. Yeah, agreed, 853 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,200 agreed. And it makes sense if 854 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:36,992 you think about it, because the whole 855 00:54:37,056 --> 00:54:41,136 premise of not only that episode, but maybe what we're 856 00:54:41,248 --> 00:54:45,152 trying to achieve here is to show people, 857 00:54:45,256 --> 00:54:49,104 after years and years of being in private practice 858 00:54:49,152 --> 00:54:53,350 and having the honor to work with hundreds 859 00:54:53,850 --> 00:54:55,790 of clients at this point, 860 00:54:56,970 --> 00:55:00,066 sharing their deepest, 861 00:55:00,178 --> 00:55:03,122 darkest fears, thoughts, worries, 862 00:55:03,186 --> 00:55:05,270 concerns, narratives, 863 00:55:06,810 --> 00:55:10,674 it's all connected. And so it makes sense 864 00:55:10,722 --> 00:55:14,030 to me that we are drawing back to, 865 00:55:14,490 --> 00:55:17,704 to some of these earlier episodes. 866 00:55:17,882 -->

00:55:21,580 It makes sense, yeah. Before we 867 00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:24,908 close out today, are there any other strategies you want to offer 868 00:55:24,964 --> 00:55:29,084 up for people? I don't think so. I. I think that I'm feeling 869 00:55:29,132 --> 00:55:32,840 pretty good about what we. What we have shared today. 870 00:55:33,540 --> 00:55:37,244 Okay. And do you want. I think you're going 871 00:55:37,252 --> 00:55:40,716 to say, I mean, I know when we close, we generally say, 872 00:55:40,788 --> 00:55:44,130 you know, tune in next time and we're going to talk about X. 873 00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:48,810 I think you're going to do a better job because you've had this conversation. 874 00:55:49,790 --> 00:55:53,286 So can you kind of just throw out there what we're planning on topping talking 875 00:55:53,318 --> 00:55:56,982 about for our next episode? I would. I would love to. 876 00:55:57,166 --> 00:56:00,810 So this topic 877 00:56:01,710 --> 00:56:04,998 came from a listener, and I 878 00:56:05,054 --> 00:56:07,770 absolutely love the topic. 879 00:56:08,510 --> 00:56:12,520 She asked me if we could do an episode 880 00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:17,604 on how to lean 881 00:56:17,732 --> 00:56:19,880 into discomfort. 882 00:56:21,180 --> 00:56:24,628 And she was specifically talking about, 883 00:56:24,684 --> 00:56:27,732 like, mental discomfort. But how. 884 00:56:27,836 --> 00:56:32,356 How do we sit with these uncomfortable 885 00:56:32,468 --> 00:56:36,174 places that clearly 886 00:56:36,222 --> 00:56:40,238 we all find ourselves in? Maybe even especially now, 887 00:56:40,294 --> 00:56:43,838 there's, there's a lot of stress out there. There is. 888 00:56:43,894 --> 00:56:47,646 And so that was. That was her. 889 00:56:47,718 --> 00:56:51,390 Her question to me, and I 890 00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:55,406 absolutely love it. Because life 891 00:56:55,478 --> 00:56:59,486 is not always about being 892 00:56:59,558 --> 00:57:02,840 comfortable. Right. Sometimes there, 893 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,592 you know, we are experiencing a lot of 894 00:57:07,696 --> 00:57:11,592 discomfort. And how do we sit 895 00:57:11,616 --> 00:57:14,952 with that? How do we learn from it? How do we start 896 00:57:14,976 --> 00:57:18,540 to shift our perspective so that it's not something that we fear. 897 00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,260 And there's that word fear again. There it is. 898 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,448 Okay, well, thank you, everyone, for joining us. 899 00:57:27,584 --> 00:57:30,100 You know, as always, we love having you here. 900 00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:32,570 Yep. Thank you. And take good care. 901 00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:44,046 If you want to share your thoughts or ideas with us, you can email us 902 00:57:44,118 --> 00:57:47,838 at therapyunpluggedpodcastroton 903 00:57:48,014 --> 00:57:51,966 me. Until next time, be sure to subscribe to Therapy 904 00:57:51,998 --> 00:57:55,684 Unplugged, Empowerment, Laughter and Life on Apple Podcasts, 905 00:57:55,782 --> 00:57:58,200 Spotify, and anywhere you get your podcasts.