النص الكامل لحلقة Why A.I. Makes Human Collaboration More Important

framework to use from to get better at it, to lean into it. 40 00:05:26,490 --> 00:05:28,190 And you also touched on AI. 41 00:05:28,770 --> 00:05:37,750 Hey, it's a superpower, but you don't just hand your teenage kid the keys to your first car and say, get on with it, have fun. 42 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:41,250 You kind of give them some direction, you help them understand how you use it. 43 00:05:41,610 --> 00:05:44,350 I think we've got to be more conscious about how we use collaboration. 44 00:05:45,170 --> 00:05:50,650 I think this is what's really interesting today, because you're not just a Joe off the street who goes, you know what, collaboration is a good idea. 45 00:05:50,890 --> 00:05:56,310 You've worked in some pretty well-known places on some pretty high profile stuff. 46 00:05:56,590 --> 00:06:05,490 You have the scars and the bruises of when collaboration has projected you forward to do amazing things, and when it's fallen short and caused problems for you. 47 00:06:05,910 --> 00:06:15,590 And I'd really like you to share some of that background with the audience, because I think we are in danger of talking about a topic, like we've just sort of said that people go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 48 00:06:15,790 --> 00:06:16,930 We all collaborate. 49 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:19,510 And the reality is, I think it's relative. 50 00:06:19,810 --> 00:06:28,230 I think when you've experienced incredible collaboration, meaningful, purposeful collaboration, it feels very different to getting on with somebody who sits next to me at work. 51 00:06:28,430 --> 00:06:30,510 So tell us a little bit about that background. 52 00:06:30,630 --> 00:06:33,130 Give us a brief introduction to the history bit of it. 53 00:06:33,950 --> 00:06:35,230 Yeah, boy, you be careful. 54 00:06:35,310 --> 00:06:36,430 There's a lot out there now, man. 55 00:06:36,510 --> 00:06:39,150 I want to try and keep this succinct. 56 00:06:39,710 --> 00:06:43,570 But hey, I know I hide my British accent well. 57 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:48,470 I'm an active Brit, a proud American citizen, but I try and package it up. 58 00:06:48,530 --> 00:06:51,430 I'm actually a global citizen and a digital optimist. 59 00:06:51,910 --> 00:07:01,190 Obviously, big highlight was an amazing time of life and career when I joined Cisco at $1 billion, left $50 billion later. 60 00:07:01,490 --> 00:07:03,370 And it wasn't just that journey. 61 00:07:03,550 --> 00:07:07,310 It was the people, the operating system, the things we learned. 62 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:18,510 And I think one big takeaway that I try and encourage everyone to really embrace is this idea of lifelong learning, which candidly, I don't think they talk enough about at school and college. 63 00:07:18,650 --> 00:07:21,810 They just say, hey, learn this and this, and you'll be fine. 64 00:07:22,230 --> 00:07:27,570 But sandwiched between an amazing career at Cisco, before that, I was a startup guy. 65 00:07:27,950 --> 00:07:34,790 I

did a startup in the UK, which was way before venture capital and people being millionaires. 66 00:07:35,070 --> 00:07:40,670 And yeah, we wanted to be successful, but we were selling to keep the lights on to pay the rent type thing. 67 00:07:40,730 --> 00:07:42,670 And that was a very grounding experience. 68 00:07:42,850 --> 00:07:44,790 Luckily, that ended up well. 69 00:07:44,910 --> 00:07:57,190 And we sold that one to Microsoft, moved to California, joined this startup company in Santa Cruz, California, of all places, took it public, sold it to Cisco, joined Cisco at a billion. 70 00:07:57,330 --> 00:07:59,910 And I'm like, oh my God, I'm not a big company guy. 71 00:08:00,170 --> 00:08:01,490 Felt very uncomfortable. 72 00:08:01,690 --> 00:08:12,350 But the energy, the intensity, the opportunity, the talent just was this magnetic force to attract me to stay there for a long time. 73 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:17,510 In Silicon Valley, people sort of look at you strange if you stay at a company for a long time. 74 00:08:17,730 --> 00:08:20,270 But I'm like, why on earth would I go anywhere else? 75 00:08:20,310 --> 00:08:22,690 This company is doing some incredible things. 76 00:08:22,690 --> 00:08:23,750 I'm being challenged. 77 00:08:23,890 --> 00:08:24,450 I'm leading. 78 00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:34,990 And to your point, I think it really was where I crystallized this idea, not just idea, this practice of why are we not collaborating better together? 79 00:08:35,549 --> 00:08:42,789 And I give one of my financial partners some credit because he, we had a very diverse team running this multi-billion dollar business at one time. 80 00:08:42,870 --> 00:08:48,390 One of the first meetings I had with him, he reached into his top drawer and pulled out a deck of cards, Andy. 81 00:08:48,510 --> 00:08:51,710 And I'm like, a very strange thing to be doing from a finance guy. 82 00:08:51,810 --> 00:08:58,530 And he literally went through every single one of our leadership team and said, well, Tracy's an orange, Gregory's a yellow. 83 00:08:58,790 --> 00:08:59,790 And I'm like, what? 84 00:09:00,090 --> 00:09:03,450 And he's like, look how diverse your team is, Chris. 85 00:09:03,870 --> 00:09:10,290 And you and I, and we have got a challenge to get these people really working together. 86 00:09:10,970 --> 00:09:23,570 And so we kind of took that idea, did personality tests with our team, realized, you know, even us kind of older white guys kind of thing diversified because of the backgrounds we had. 87 00:09:24,370 --> 00:09:29,610 And so how did we facilitate and get people to understand to get the best out of this team? 88 00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:32,250 We really needed to understand each other better. 89 00:09:32,250 --> 00:09:44,290 And then post-Cisco, you know, three big publicly traded, heavy transformational jobs where companies needed to find that next gear and go up to a new level. 90 00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:58,270 Been fortunate enough to travel the world, you know, grew up in the UK, moved to California, came back to the UK to run a European business, went back to California, then got an opportunity to go to Bangalore, India of all places. 91 00:09:59,170 --> 00:10:06,490 So I think one of the things I'm most proud of is I've really stress tested this across cultures and working environments. 92 00:10:06,850 --> 00:10:10,190 And Hey, there's a lot of bright consultants and advisors out there. 93 00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:24,410 A lot of them have not got their hands dirty and I've got the scar tissue and the, you know, I don't like using a sort of, you know, weaponry analogies, but, you know, dealing with live ammunition is a tricky thing. 94 00:10:24,650 --> 00:10:28,270 Dealing with people's emotions, dealing with people's personalities. 95 00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:30,770 It takes some finesse. 96 00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:34,410 And I think part of my book, I write about being a straight B student. 97 00:10:35,130 --> 00:10:42,050 So as soon as this thing called EQ came out, I really leaned into it because I don't have that big an IQ. 98 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:52,590 And I'm like, wow, what a superpower when you can really get more out of a person and a team than they even think is possible. 99 00:10:53,150 --> 00:11:01,830 And as a leader, that is one of the most fulfilling things you can pull off is get to a team to execute at a level they don't even think is possible. 100 00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:02,250 Yeah. 101 00:11:02,330 --> 00:11:03,690 I mean, that, that is the game, right? 102 00:11:03,730 --> 00:11:07,150 That, that is definitely the game that you've mentioned the book. 103 00:11:07,370 --> 00:11:10,970 I mean, the book's called non-optional collaboration, right? 104 00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:18,870 I mean, that's a fairly strong, direct statement, Chris, and based on your experiences, where's that come from? 105 00:11:18,930 --> 00:11:20,470 What, why non-optional? 106 00:11:20,830 --> 00:11:22,410 What are you trying to say with that? 107 00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:23,210 Yeah. 108 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:27,370 And thanks for amplifying that because I think some people look at it and like, well, hang on a minute. 109 00:11:27,450 --> 00:11:29,590 Isn't that like an oxymoron almost right now? 110 00:11:29,710 --> 00:11:31,030 Aren't you going to want to collaborate? 111 00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:39,810 But any, I'm doing some advisory work at the moment with a, with a, with a very creative startup in New York and cybersecurity market. 112 00:11:39,910 --> 00:11:49,090 And it's a team of less than 20 people and their sales and marketing teams are, if we're not careful, ships passing in a Yeah. 113 00:11:49,390 --> 00:11:51,230 And they're super motivated individuals. 114 00:11:51,230 --> 00:12:00,690 They're very cordial to each other, but sometimes you've got to slow down to speed up and realize, hang on a minute, marketing is creating all this great material. 115 00:12:01,190 -->

00:12:07,490 Sales types have got to figure out how to collaborate and leverage it, not get frustrated, not get defensive. 116 00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:10,550 And then you just take that across an entire company. 117 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:13,390 Look at HR or something you've invested a lot of time in, right? 118 00:12:13,730 --> 00:12:22,850 You know, one of the most important assets, helping our teams, helping our people often is left onto the side unless there's an emergency to deal with. 119 00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:23,210 Right. 120 00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:39,850 So creating that culture and you wouldn't believe, even at a fantastically successful company like Cisco, Andy, the number of times I just called a timeout and said, hang on a minute, finance, marketing, sales, engineering, we're getting in a room and having a conversation. 121 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:59,510 And when I was surprised about more than, more than once that meeting typically started with people looking at each other and saying, wow, I haven't been in a meeting with us all together, let alone having a structured conversation about how we can work better together. 122 00:13:00,370 --> 00:13:16,610 So, yeah, it's been a fascinating combination of learning and teaching and listening to books and hearing people present, but then taking that presentation and getting your hands dirty and really making effective, uh, and it motivated me to write a book on it. 123 00:13:16,610 --> 00:13:16,790 Right. 124 00:13:16,810 --> 00:13:22,370 And hopefully it's a framework for people that leverage, you know, real life examples of how they can get better at it. 125 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:24,870 Well, let's get into some of that framework in a sec. 126 00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:33,630 The collaboration, I guess, oversimplification, even if you take my background, you know, marketing and HR, right? 127 00:13:33,790 --> 00:13:44,590 Not working in HR, but working in marketing, realizing the fact I can't get anything done without people, but also recognizing that those two departments are doing the same thing to different audiences, right? 128 00:13:44,650 --> 00:13:51,070 Both are looking at recruiting, keeping growing and developing, and they just have different tactics to do those sorts of things. 129 00:13:51,070 --> 00:13:55,650 But did we start off in all companies working together on that sort of stuff? 130 00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:56,070 No. 131 00:13:56,430 --> 00:13:58,830 When we did, did things take a different turn? 132 00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:59,950 Absolutely. 133 00:14:00,290 --> 00:14:12,690 You know, even in the last couple of weeks, being in rooms with some fast growing businesses and sub teams of the big leadership team, uh, amongst lots of different takeouts of our sessions together were, you know what? 134 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:16,010 We should really spend more time together talking about what each of us does. 135 00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:19,170 This is fundamental, what we're talking about here, right? 136 00:14:19,310 --> 00:14:25,170 So I've thought long and hard about the non-optional collaboration thing about it in, in, in researching this. 137 00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:33,830 And I, I think it's a really interesting bit of tension in that previously the job has been, well, I've got to try to get everybody to work together. 138 00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:37,890 But now it's a case of, Hey, if we don't, we're in trouble, right? 139 00:14:38,050 --> 00:14:42,430 This is, this has to be the standard that we, that we set right from the get go. 140 00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:47,070 Well, so, so, so Andy, if I jump in a little bit, you know, it's interesting you mentioned that term tension, right? 141 00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:50,270 I've heard a lot of CEOs talk about friction. 142 00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:56,190 It's okay to have friction in our, of course you have friction in your business, Chris, it's good for the business. 143 00:14:56,270 --> 00:15:01,430 And I'm like, like, hang on a minute, you know, we're also in formula one and NASCAR series at the moment, right? 144 00:15:01,790 --> 00:15:10,550 You know, 10 years ago, it took a formula one team, 21 seconds to change a tire, you know, now they can do it in under three seconds. 145 00:15:10,990 --> 00:15:19,130 And that was not created by the guy changing the wheel, telling the gal who's refueling say, Oh, you know, take your time. 146 00:15:19,190 --> 00:15:19,630 It's okay. 147 00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:20,930 When you're done, I'm ready. 148 00:15:21,510 --> 00:15:25,310 It was, I hate to say it, forcing collaboration. 149 00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:26,350 Hang on a minute. 150 00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:28,070 How quickly, how can we coordinate? 151 00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:33,350 How can we get the best output out of this, these components to get it out? 152 00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:36,370 And, uh, yeah, you got to be intentional about it. 153 00:15:36,450 --> 00:15:47,650 We said we're both sporty guys and without spending the whole episode with us relying on sport, there is a classic management consultant picture of people in a boat, you know, let's all pull together, right? 154 00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:49,590 The classic kind of, Hey, we're one team. 155 00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:50,930 We're all pulling in the same direction. 156 00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:51,970 Oh my God, that's amazing. 157 00:15:52,070 --> 00:15:52,550 What a metaphor. 158 00:15:52,810 --> 00:15:59,130 But in practical terms, you've got a background in serious rowing. 159 00:15:59,890 --> 00:16:17,570 And so it would seem like a ridiculous opportunity, not to talk to you about collaboration and actually what it's really like in a boat, because in reality, that has to be an entity that cannot function without extreme levels of collaboration, right? 160 00:16:18,550 --> 00:16:21,370 Andy, let's go from one extreme sports analogy to another. 161 00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:38,930 You're taking me from one of the biggest

stadiums on this planet with one of the most high paid, you know, bankroll teams in the world to the river Wye in Hertford pouring down with rain and eight guys in a boat. 162 00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:47,330 And it is interesting upon reflection, how non-optional a support it is, right? 163 00:16:47,490 --> 00:16:48,830 No matter what level, right? 164 00:16:49,130 --> 00:16:51,210 You know, my son's a great basketball player. 165 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:53,650 There's no time outs in rowing. 166 00:16:53,930 --> 00:16:58,270 There's no substitutions that, you know, there's not even a half time for goodness sake, right? 167 00:16:58,330 --> 00:17:00,790 When the flag or the whistle goes, you are committed. 168 00:17:01,470 --> 00:17:19,210 And I think what's also preparing for the support, you know, you spent hours mentally and physically looking for that perfect synchronization to get that boat moving as efficiently as possible to win a race. 169 00:17:19,790 --> 00:17:28,090 And I was fortunate enough to have a school master that was intentional and very, you know, we went to two world championships. 170 00:17:28,450 --> 00:17:30,590 We went to Henley Royal Regatta a number of times. 171 00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:53,210 And then when the famous book, boys in the boat was written, there's a great first chapter there that I just couldn't remind my son that his dad was an athlete at one point in his life, because the phrase talks about a 2000 meter rowing race is the equivalent physically to two back-to-back basketball games. 172 00:17:53,690 --> 00:17:56,890 But it's not just physical exertion. 173 00:17:57,070 --> 00:18:02,550 It is that collaboration and that mental toughness that you're always searching for. 174 00:18:02,610 --> 00:18:06,250 And I think that's the, that's why it plays to a business analogy so well. 175 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:15,910 You know, I'm not just saying read the book and you'll be perfect, you know, create a framework, create a culture where you're signing up to constant improvement. 176 00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:24,950 You've got the right mindset, but then you have a framework to collaborate at a whole new level that I would almost guarantee you can get more out of your team than you're getting today. 177 00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:26,450 Don't put up with functional silos. 178 00:18:26,450 --> 00:18:27,530 Don't put up with friction. 179 00:18:28,050 --> 00:18:28,170 Yeah. 180 00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:33,970 So let's, let's dig into that framework because you've mentioned the framework word a couple of times. 181 00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:37,170 That is what I guess the book is built around, right? 182 00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:40,390 This, this framework for real collaboration. 183 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:42,590 Can you, can you lay it out for us? 184 00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:48,410 Just give us a sort of a high level view of what this framework is and maybe pick some of the component parts and just walk us through that. 185 00:18:49,110

--> 00:18:49,370 Happy to. 186 00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:55,050 I, I, you know, and actually what I try and highlight is it actually starts off with making sure you've got the right foundation. 187 00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:59,930 And for me, actually the foundation is mindset and attitude, right? 188 00:18:59,970 --> 00:19:11,370 You've got to have, you've got to kind of find that mental place of having a positive mental attitude, but there is an opportunity, no matter how good or how bad things are, there's an opportunity to improve. 189 00:19:11,470 --> 00:19:11,690 Right. 190 00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:17,590 And that's straight out of the lean mindset sort of teaching that we, that's pretty pervasive at the moment. 191 00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:20,930 But then, you know, number one is a leader. 192 00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:22,730 Do you really understand your North star? 193 00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:23,090 Right? 194 00:19:23,210 --> 00:19:23,890 Where are you going? 195 00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:24,250 Right. 196 00:19:24,330 --> 00:19:26,250 You know, there's one thing to say, you want to be successful. 197 00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:27,470 You want to win, get aims. 198 00:19:27,690 --> 00:19:33,850 You got to kind of really put some clarity and quantifiable nature to where you're going. 199 00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:38,130 And it's the old adage, you know, how can you get anywhere if you don't set a goal type, type approach. 200 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:55,850 The second piece is then, okay, if you have a team, which most of us do, you know, big or small, do you really know them or are you relying on the interview process, the culture of your meeting, you know, yeah, they all seem to get along when they get together. 201 00:19:55,930 --> 00:20:01,370 Is that really a solid enough foundation to really get the most out of your team? 202 00:20:01,490 --> 00:20:09,670 And often enough, I found it's not, you know, and so you've got to facilitate your team, really understanding each other. 203 00:20:09,950 --> 00:20:14,890 You also, as a leader, you got to facilitate an environment to get the best out of that team. 204 00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:16,690 And then you got to create a plan. 205 00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:24,370 So, so I've used personality profiling an awful lot since that infamous conversation I had with my financial controller many years ago. 206 00:20:24,930 --> 00:20:29,010 Myers-Briggs just happens to be from the college my son graduated from. 207 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:30,850 DISC is used an awful lot. 208 00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:39,970 I don't care what it is, but go through a methodology and a process from a professional organization that can really help you dig into that. 209 00:20:40,470 --> 00:20:49,030 And then facilitate a conversation so people don't just know their personality profiles, they know how to better deal and work with other personalities. 210 00:20:49,790 --> 00:20:57,950 Then most important part, you get everyone in a room if you can, and physical is better than virtual if you can pull it off and you create a plan. 211 00:20:58,450 --> 00:21:03,670 And I think this is where some people misinterpret collaboration as kumbaya, an agreement. 212 00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:19,170 No, a highly collaborative planning session gets pretty emotional, sparks will fly, you'll challenge each other, but you'll do it in a professional way that you come out with the best damn plan ever. 213 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:30,050 And one of the experiences I share, a consultant years ago gave me this best practice of a year from now exercise that is so impactful, Andy. 214 00:21:30,150 --> 00:21:33,390 You pull together this great plan, you're all pleased with yourself. 215 00:21:33,410 --> 00:21:36,730 At the end of the day or the end of the session, you run two scenarios. 216 00:21:37,570 --> 00:21:49,130 A year from now, Andy's on the unemployment line with a tatted corporate t-shirt and someone looks at you and said, but a year ago you were doing so well, you had all this opportunity, you had this great team, blah, blah, blah. 217 00:21:49,390 --> 00:21:53,190 And the exercise as a team is what went wrong. 218 00:21:54,250 --> 00:21:58,250 And Andy, if you've set up the right environment, it's incredible what comes out. 219 00:21:58,350 --> 00:22:02,430 It's like, well, I know we've got a good sales team, but they're a little arrogant. 220 00:22:02,490 --> 00:22:04,490 So they don't really work it well. 221 00:22:04,550 --> 00:22:07,230 They don't use the ammunition from marketing as well as they could. 222 00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:11,050 And so you create a list of stuff, tough, tough topics to go deal with. 223 00:22:11,290 --> 00:22:13,350 The counter to that is a year from now. 224 00:22:13,490 --> 00:22:17,330 Oh my God, we've got success at a level we never thought possible. 225 00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:19,730 What are the things we really did? 226 00:22:19,870 --> 00:22:23,350 And a lot of things come out as, you know, we actually acted as a team, right? 227 00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:26,470 We didn't let heroes get in the way of team success. 228 00:22:26,890 --> 00:22:30,710 You know, we put in a rigid operating system that didn't get diluted. 229 00:22:30,930 --> 00:22:47,330 And so creating that plan needs to translate into a set of metrics, an operating system that we hold ourselves accountable because, you know, the two of my most overused one-liners are number one, in God we trust, everyone else bring data. 230 00:22:47,650 --> 00:22:50,890 So let's make sure it's factual and accurate. 231 00:22:51,450 --> 00:22:55,730 And then the second one is, you know, don't confuse effort with results. 232 00:22:56,410 --> 00:23:00,150 An old leader of mine said, Hey, we're not in the newspaper industry. 233 00:23:00,670 --> 00:23:01,970 We're not selling news. 234 00:23:02,150 --> 00:23:03,170 We're making news. 235 00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:06,930 So don't show up and just tell me I'm busy. 236 00:23:07,170 -->

00:23:12,750 I want to know what we're, what difference we're making to our customers, to the market, to the mission. 237 00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:14,750 I mean, let's learn from that. 238 00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:18,390 So and also, I think it's also important to have some fun with it, right? 239 00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:29,470 You know, catch people doing good things, share success, you know, and, you know, have a culture where you can deal with the tough issues as fast as possible, but it's tough out there, right? 240 00:23:29,470 --> 00:23:36,490 We're all getting bombarded by social media, new, you know, doom and gloom, philosophies, AI is gonna put us all out of business. 241 00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:42,770 You gotta have some, you gotta, you gotta create that culture that, that gives you that platform for success as well. 242 00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:48,150 I mean, if you take each of these elements in isolation, these aren't new things that people haven't talked about, right? 243 00:23:48,730 --> 00:23:50,630 These aren't new, new, new things. 244 00:23:50,710 --> 00:24:02,970 Um, and that's not being rude that these are things is your position in this, in the, the unique or the required element is that all of these stitched together, right? 245 00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:10,110 Oh, thanks for pointing that out, Andy, because it's so true, because to your point, you can point at each other and say, well, we do that. 246 00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:10,910 I don't know. 247 00:24:11,130 --> 00:24:11,970 I've got a plan. 248 00:24:12,290 --> 00:24:32,930 Andy, you, you probably wouldn't be surprised, but you kind of shocked if I gave you names of names, but I'm not gonna, you know, I'll protect the innocent here, but you know, the number of companies I've walked into that either they've handed me or I found the strategic plan that they sold investors, sold their shareholders, sold their company on. 249 00:24:33,250 --> 00:24:38,830 And then I look at the operating model, but does not align to that strategic plan. 250 00:24:39,270 --> 00:24:43,830 And so to your point, you've got to put all the chinks in that chain together. 251 00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:46,070 Otherwise you're not going to get maximum output. 252 00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:50,570 And I think this is where a lot of the sort of head fakes in the business come in. 253 00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:52,610 Oh no, I had a great planning session. 254 00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:53,950 Everyone got on really well. 255 00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:54,670 Oh my God. 256 00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:55,350 Okay. 257 00:24:55,510 --> 00:24:59,150 But have you now translated that planning session into a new operating model? 258 00:24:59,390 --> 00:25:01,510 Have you changed the way you operate? 259 00:25:01,690 --> 00:25:01,930 Right. 260 00:25:02,410 --> 00:25:04,130 Um, and no, thanks for pointing that out. 261 00:25:04,130 --> 00:25:12,890 Cause it's such an important part of, uh, you know, the, the, the lessons I've learned, the, the things I've learned from leaders, but the value of the framework is yeah. 262 00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:15,050 You know, you can't skip from one to three, right? 263 00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:16,710 There's what's that great other analogy. 264 00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:19,430 There's no, uh, there's no elevator to success, right? 265 00:25:19,450 --> 00:25:20,350 You got to take the stairs. 266 00:25:21,050 --> 00:25:36,550 I think this is the interesting thing when it comes to things like strategy, which I think has been made out and to be some sort of dark art that only a few people behind a very, very heavy blocks door allowed to sort of play with is that there's a real conflation between strategy and plan. 267 00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:42,330 I think there's a lot of people that love putting plans together, the things we're going to do. 268 00:25:42,550 --> 00:25:43,250 That's great. 269 00:25:43,610 --> 00:25:46,750 And they feel very comfy normally from their operational silo. 270 00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:46,930 Yeah. 271 00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:55,850 We're going to do these things, but where it all goes awry is where they haven't done the pre-thinking about actually what's the strategy where, where are we choosing to play? 272 00:25:55,950 --> 00:25:58,070 How are we going to win in that market? 273 00:25:58,170 --> 00:26:01,590 And if that's the case, to your point, what are the capabilities that we need? 274 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:17,750 What are the systems that are going to support all those sorts of things that in my experience, where I've seen a team really work together and really collaborate is where that strategy or key strategies were really well understood. 275 00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:23,310 And then the plans had rigorous alignment to those pieces of strategy. 276 00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:30,590 So instead of everybody in scattergun and achieving their things, we were all, we may have been working independently. 277 00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:36,890 We may have been deliberately collaborating on things, but we're all contributing to that delivery of strategy. 278 00:26:38,010 --> 00:26:39,850 Andy, it's such an important topic, right? 279 00:26:39,890 --> 00:26:44,410 You know, we, we created a startup business within Cisco called our smart grid strategy. 280 00:26:44,490 --> 00:26:44,930 Right. 281 00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:56,450 And it was, you know, when the electrification of the grid was going digital, uh, you know, Cisco was a big company at the time and access to, I think the number was 3,500 utility customers around the world. 282 00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:59,230 We had a team of 20 Andy, right. 283 00:26:59,750 --> 00:27:06,570 And we looked at an adoption curve of, okay, who are, you know, laggards and people that are going to suck resources and not buy anything. 284 00:27:06,650 --> 00:27:10,130 Who are the early adopters and the, and the people that are going to buy something. 285 00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:15,110 We came up with a list of

100, 100 out of three and a half thousand. 286 00:27:15,310 --> 00:27:18,570 And we made a commitment to say, that's our beachhead. 287 00:27:18,630 --> 00:27:23,450 I don't care how sexy the meeting is or where the location is. 288 00:27:23,470 --> 00:27:26,190 We're going after those 100 as a team. 289 00:27:26,190 --> 00:27:35,130 And, and, and, and I think, and it was based on a lot of advice from the famous author, Jeffrey Moore from Silicon Valley, crossing the chasm as a bit of a Bible and tech tech world. 290 00:27:35,230 --> 00:27:39,470 And one of the analogies that have stuck with me so well, he's like Chris in California. 291 00:27:39,730 --> 00:27:43,010 And those, those odd occasions, you get sunshine in England. 292 00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:51,230 Uh, you know, you take a piece of paper, you take a magnifying glass, you get the sun to focus on an area. 293 00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:57,530 You do not move your hand randomly around that piece of paper and it feels like a long time, but it's actually not that long. 294 00:27:57,570 --> 00:28:02,230 And then you get combustion and that analogy, because God bless us to your point. 295 00:28:02,310 --> 00:28:03,330 We all, we're all busy. 296 00:28:03,650 --> 00:28:09,550 It's not non-intentional collaboration, but the functional silos are wound up. 297 00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:12,670 Get off, go do your mission and don't get distracted. 298 00:28:13,270 --> 00:28:18,410 But then you're missing that X factor of, well, what if I did use HR as a strategic weapon? 299 00:28:18,450 --> 00:28:20,530 What if I did understand the financial position? 300 00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:23,270 What if I did use that marketing material a little better? 301 00:28:23,670 --> 00:28:31,110 You know, those are the X factors that get you more growth, more sustainability, more better culture, more retention. 302 00:28:32,150 --> 00:28:32,430 For me. 303 00:28:32,790 --> 00:28:42,610 And I haven't really thought about this before, but collaboration comes in different flavors because I think the basic vanilla, everybody thinks about collaboration or my assumption. 304 00:28:43,050 --> 00:28:50,110 I can't speak for everybody is that collaboration is me working alongside you together, right? 305 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:54,310 I have to be with you working on the same thing together at once. 306 00:28:54,650 --> 00:29:03,570 Whereas where you've got this framework in place, particularly, you know, know what, know where you're going and this kind of headline strategy. 307 00:29:04,330 --> 00:29:08,390 I don't have to be with you to collaborate on that, right? 308 00:29:08,590 --> 00:29:14,670 I don't have to be working on the same piece of paper or in the same chat stream or in the same meeting. 309 00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:18,610 Actually, my efforts are all guided towards the same target as you. 310 00:29:18,790 --> 00:29:21,170 So we are in effect collaborating. 311 00:29:21,370 --> 00:29:21,770 Right. 312 00:29:21,930 --> 00:29:23,630 And I think this is the difference, right? 313 00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:30,990 Andy, it is another great observation because if you're not careful, collaboration can be easily misinterpreted. 314 00:29:31,030 --> 00:29:31,170 Yeah. 315 00:29:31,290 --> 00:29:32,230 It's teamwork! 316 00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:34,090 It's Kumbayah, it's teamwork. 317 00:29:34,290 --> 00:29:37,530 Everyone shows up and, you know, use another overused analogy, right? 318 00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:40,030 This is not 11 year old soccer, right? 319 00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:43,570 You're not got, you know, 21 little kids running around off to the ball. 320 00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:44,870 It's like, no, hang on a minute. 321 00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:47,770 You know, I'm not even going to use Cristiano Ronaldo. 322 00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:48,850 I'll use Harry Kane, right? 323 00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:51,830 Harry Kane's good at putting the ball in the back of the net, right? 324 00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:54,190 We got good old Pickford to save goals. 325 00:29:54,290 --> 00:30:01,570 Let the goalkeeper do his job, let Kane do his job, but let the team work as a team on a mission to win the goals. 326 00:30:02,110 --> 00:30:17,950 And I think it's such a subtlety because even Cisco, by the way, it's not very well publicized, but they leaned into collaboration a little too heavily, had this whole boards and collaboration activity that everyone was expected to use. 327 00:30:18,110 --> 00:30:20,250 And it became too much of an overhead. 328 00:30:20,390 --> 00:30:29,930 It actually slowed things down because all of a sudden the wrong people, I wouldn't say the wrong people were collaborating, but there was almost too much overhead involved in the operating model. 329 00:30:30,390 --> 00:30:42,650 You've also got to make sure you've got as an efficient system as possible that finance team gets finance stuff done, salespeople get sales stuff done, but that power of the team is working together to get you that multiplier. 330 00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:43,190 Yeah. 331 00:30:43,430 --> 00:30:51,370 I think that power of the team is something I also want to pick up in your list because I think you said the myth of the hero leader in there. 332 00:30:51,670 --> 00:31:02,150 I think currently we are seeing that traditional leadership model, uh, or, or typical shadow that people would say, that's what leadership is about. 333 00:31:02,190 --> 00:31:09,330 We're seeing that being challenged left, right, and center, not just because of changing generations coming through or technology changing the landscape. 334 00:31:09,330 --> 00:31:27,850 I think of leadership is morphing and I'm just interested in, in just getting a little bit more from you on that myth of the hero leader and the changes that you're seeing inside organizations and what, what this does to this whole notion of how teams are set up and how we collaborate as organizations. 335 00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:29,010 Yeah. 336

00:31:29,170 --> 00:31:37,910 And that's, you get onto, if you're not careful, a little bit of a thorny topic actually, because you know, Hey, who wouldn't want to be Steve jobs, right? 337 00:31:37,950 --> 00:31:40,290 Who wouldn't want to potentially be Elon Musk. 338 00:31:40,290 --> 00:31:40,710 Right. 339 00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:46,450 But I would argue if you're not careful and even, you know, good old Jensen and Nvidia, right. 340 00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:57,130 There are a little bit of markets of one, you know, they are incredible anomalies that are great to aspire and lead to, but is their style that scalable. 341 00:31:57,470 --> 00:31:57,610 Right. 342 00:31:58,110 --> 00:32:02,330 And so leave that 1% where it is and have admiration and credit for it. 343 00:32:02,490 --> 00:32:09,750 If you want, then there's the rest of us that have got to figure out with our capabilities, how do we, you know, step up and lead. 344 00:32:09,890 --> 00:32:23,390 And so to your point, you know, and I think you're touching a little bit on the dynamic of AI in our world today, you know, if we're not careful, everyone's got their own strategy because they've thrown it into Claude or chat GPT, and they're doing it in silos. 345 00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:33,290 And that very functional silo operating model that motivated me to write this book is getting turbo charged at a level is going to be insane. 346 00:32:33,650 --> 00:32:38,890 So do you understand what each silo is using AI to do? 347 00:32:39,090 --> 00:32:49,490 And is it either breaking us apart or really getting us better as a team, but without intentional collaboration, it's potentially making those silos even worse. 348 00:32:49,490 --> 00:33:05,710 And the work that you've done and in the work that you're now doing, do you see, is there still maybe an over-reliance on hierarchy over departmental interdepartmental human relationships? 349 00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:13,870 Is this, are we still functioning too much in, in some of that model or actually, Andy, we're seeing it, we're seeing a lot of change. 350 00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:15,770 I'm actually seeing a lot of change in that area. 351 00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:17,630 What's, what's your take on it? 352 00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:22,190 Yeah, it's, uh, another challenging question. 353 00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:22,810 Good job. 354 00:33:23,370 --> 00:33:26,910 You know, the challenge of a fricking leader is to lead. 355 00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:27,290 Right. 356 00:33:27,370 --> 00:33:29,290 And I think the challenge is not enough. 357 00:33:29,370 --> 00:33:33,250 People double click on what is involved in leadership, right? 358 00:33:33,570 --> 00:33:41,810 You know, they get promoted, you know, they're, they do, they're passionate about doing a startup and it's like, okay, what are the responsibilities that come with leadership? 359 00:33:42,350 --> 00:33:43,270 What are those responsibilities? 360 00:33:43,630 --> 00:33:46,490 Andy's is to empower your team, right? 361 00:33:46,570 --> 00:33:53,410 You know, some people are successful being a micromanager, but they typically find out that it's not a scalable style. 362 00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:57,370 However, you don't just empower your team, right? 363 00:33:57,390 --> 00:33:59,510 You got to make sure you're strategically aligned. 364 00:33:59,590 --> 00:34:05,710 You got to make sure those, those team members have the tools, the talent, and the training to do their jobs as best as possible. 365 00:34:06,170 --> 00:34:15,570 I think what's shocking Andy is the number of real, true, inspiring leaders we all have is a pretty short list. 366 00:34:15,889 --> 00:34:18,230 You know, I, you know, I like you, I've read a lot of books. 367 00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:20,969 I'm a, I'm a curious leader, a curious person. 368 00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:24,310 I'm keep looking for, you know, more and more examples. 369 00:34:24,870 --> 00:34:26,830 It isn't that long a list, right? 370 00:34:26,830 --> 00:34:29,909 I had the good fortune of working with the late general Colin Powell, right? 371 00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:35,070 He ran the American fricking defense business, right? 372 00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:37,489 You know, he was a jet five-star general. 373 00:34:38,350 --> 00:34:42,330 His mission was not to, not to be the best at fighting wars. 374 00:34:42,449 --> 00:34:45,610 His mission was to stop wars, to avoid conflict. 375 00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:54,449 And it was just a fabulous human being that really did an incredible job across way bigger and enterprise than Cisco ever had. 376 00:34:54,690 --> 00:34:59,210 But an inspiring leader, because number one, he was just a damn good person, Andy. 377 00:34:59,710 --> 00:35:02,390 He had high efforts, high moral values. 378 00:35:02,530 --> 00:35:07,050 He gave a damn about his, his team, but boy, he had a mission. 379 00:35:07,570 --> 00:35:09,030 He had clarity of execution. 380 00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:13,210 He held people accountable and, and, and, and he got stuff done. 381 00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:14,530 He got the right stuff done. 382 00:35:14,610 --> 00:35:15,730 It was incredible. 383 00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:21,650 I think this is what's really interesting when it comes to the leadership stuff. 384 00:35:21,710 --> 00:35:31,750 And the reason I asked that question about the hero leader and all the rest of it is that it may be that I am horribly biased because of the kind of person that I am. 385 00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:40,590 But if I think about the people who've had a real impact on me, and it wasn't always the, the head of the organization, but I was very lucky. 386 00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:44,310 I think I worked for some fantastic people at different levels. 387 00:35:44,410 --> 00:36:01,150 I worked for some less fantastic people, but those people that have lasting impact on me and people I still reference when this sort of topic comes up are the people who, I don't talk about the strategies that they

put into place, right? 388 00:36:01,230 --> 00:36:03,250 Or the amazing ideas that they might've had. 389 00:36:03,410 --> 00:36:06,530 And that's not to say that they didn't, but that's not the thing that I recall. 390 00:36:06,750 --> 00:36:09,270 That's not the thing that has stayed with me. 391 00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:19,690 It's been the impact on me has been around what they, what they got from me, what they made me do that I perhaps didn't think I could do. 392 00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:30,110 Maybe some home truths they shared with me that gave me choices that if I'd never had that told to me, I would never have made how they went about it. 393 00:36:31,450 --> 00:36:35,330 And also their consistency, not just with me, but with, with other people. 394 00:36:35,370 --> 00:36:39,630 Now, to me, those are the traits of leadership. 395 00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:42,270 I don't think that that is a generational thing. 396 00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:50,890 I suspect if we look back at any generation, there've been people that have been doing those things, that their numbers, their percentage of the overall mix may have been different. 397 00:36:50,890 --> 00:37:04,090 But to me, that's, that's the thing I would be looking for in leadership to be less about how great that individual is and how great they are at growing the people around them. 398 00:37:04,590 --> 00:37:06,750 You know, I just got back from Switzerland. 399 00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:08,550 I did two keynotes over there. 400 00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:15,210 And the first, first keynote, I talked a lot about AI being a superpower and how we've got to learn, you know, we've got to be careful with it. 401 00:37:15,250 --> 00:37:16,910 It's a fricking powerful tool. 402 00:37:17,450 --> 00:37:19,350 The second, I adjusted the second one and say, hang on a minute. 403 00:37:19,390 --> 00:37:19,750 No, no, no. 404 00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:21,790 We have two superpowers at our disposal. 405 00:37:22,430 --> 00:37:23,190 AI is one. 406 00:37:23,370 --> 00:37:25,430 The second one is human collaboration. 407 00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:34,610 And you highlighted right there on what leaders got the best out of you, what leaders got the best out of me, what leaders didn't get the best out of me. 408 00:37:34,650 --> 00:37:34,830 Right. 409 00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:40,590 I, I somewhat allude to, you know, I don't sign up to a tool of the hun leadership styles. 410 00:37:40,910 --> 00:37:42,070 Some people do Andy. 411 00:37:42,210 --> 00:37:44,770 And Hey, you know, you know, Hey, that's okay. 412 00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:46,050 It doesn't get the best out of me. 413 00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:52,650 But to your point, I think great leaders really do a good job of, of, and it's the framework exercise, right? 414 00:37:52,650 --> 00:37:54,610 It's not just that good public speakers. 415 00:37:54,610 --> 00:37:57,690 It's not just they're good at one-on-ones, not just they're good humans. 416 00:37:57,870 --> 00:38:03,590 They connect all those dots that make them great leaders that have got more out of me than I thought was possible. 417 00:38:03,930 --> 00:38:21,250 I want to just quickly cover a little bit more of this AI before we even think about trying to summarize that this, this discussion, which I have loved, by the way, when it comes to the AI thing at the moment, there's a lot of us looking over our shoulder going, well, AI is just. 418 00:38:21,850 --> 00:38:24,590 Reducing the reliance and the requirement for people. 419 00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:37,570 And yet at this time, your message is almost in the complete opposite direction when it comes to the marriage of AI and people, you just tell us where that, where that core belief comes from. 420 00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:38,590 Yeah. 421 00:38:39,310 --> 00:38:58,610 One of it, I got to give credit to a, to a Stanford professor at a NVIDIA's GTC conference two years ago, she had a great breakout and she highlighted human beings track record of creating tools, you know, printing press, the wheel, the internet, you name iPhone, whatever it is. 422 00:38:58,610 --> 00:38:58,830 Right. 423 00:38:59,130 --> 00:39:05,970 She also went on to say, we've got an interesting track record of using them for good or for evil, you know, take a good old car wrench, right? 424 00:39:06,270 --> 00:39:09,230 If you're stuck on the M four shooting down rain, you've got to change a tire. 425 00:39:09,350 --> 00:39:11,190 Having a car wrench is pretty good tool to have. 426 00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:16,550 If you go out of the pub one night, go down the wrong alley and someone's got a car wrench, that's probably not a good scenario. 427 00:39:16,970 --> 00:39:21,070 You know, here we go to AI automotive industry, right? 428 00:39:21,130 --> 00:39:26,450 When we first bought cars to market, we walked in front of them with a flag to slow down progress. 429 00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:30,590 Human beings took 50 years to invent a seatbelt. 430 00:39:31,090 --> 00:39:37,450 It took us 75 years to mandate usage of them and it saves over a million lives a year. 431 00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:41,570 So our track record of tools is very interesting. 432 00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:42,150 Yeah. 433 00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:48,350 However, I think we've really got to lean in and learn how to use AI for good. 434 00:39:48,510 --> 00:39:56,610 And we've got to learn in and get better at human collaboration just at the time as de-globalization is a topic, right? 435 00:39:56,750 --> 00:39:58,510 Arrogant leaders is a topic, right? 436 00:39:58,890 --> 00:40:01,030 You know, Hey, like I started out, right? 437 00:40:01,070 --> 00:40:02,530 I'm a optimistic guy. 438 00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:05,390 I'm a global citizen and I'm a digital optimist. 439 00:40:05,550 --> 00:40:09,550 But like all these tools, you got to learn to use them for good versus evil. 440 00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:16,410 I think there's something else running through this because you're hugely

passionate and enthusiastic and have a lot of energy for this topic. 441 00:40:16,410 --> 00:40:24,470 And right, I think at the start of this conversation, you talked about one factor in this framework, really being about mindset and positive mental attitude. 442 00:40:24,570 --> 00:40:38,590 Now we haven't gone into any great level of detail on that, but your own personal situation, the, the whole battle with cancer and everything that, that, that must, that must have given you clarity of direction and why this is an important thing, right? 443 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:43,190 Those are the things that really bring everything into focus and show you what really, really matters. 444 00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:50,670 Uh, yeah, Andy, it's, uh, you know, it's a tough topic and we also talk about leadership, right? 445 00:40:50,770 --> 00:40:57,530 You know, too many of us have evolved our leadership style to say, Oh my God, you've got a, you've got a health crisis. 446 00:40:57,610 --> 00:40:58,610 Take your time. 447 00:40:58,690 --> 00:40:59,350 You'll be okay. 448 00:40:59,750 --> 00:41:00,950 You know, it's the second battle. 449 00:41:01,030 --> 00:41:03,410 My, my wife and my family have gone through with cancer. 450 00:41:04,210 --> 00:41:12,330 I don't think enough leaders, unless you've been really close to it, realize what a tectonic shift someone is going through when they face that sort of battle. 451 00:41:12,330 --> 00:41:12,690 Right. 452 00:41:13,150 --> 00:41:20,190 I decided to take, take a year off and not get back into the corporate world, you know, and support my wife through this fight. 453 00:41:20,310 --> 00:41:27,930 I didn't realize I was going to have so much time on my hands, um, in doctor's waiting rooms, helping my wife sleep through chemotherapy. 454 00:41:28,330 --> 00:41:31,690 And I've got to be honest, Andy, no desire to write a book. 455 00:41:31,890 --> 00:41:31,990 Yeah. 456 00:41:32,130 --> 00:41:37,830 Um, but I have a lot of time on my hands to reflect on a career experiences and I'm like, God dang it. 457 00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:41,110 You know, if this book helps five people, I'll be happy. 458 00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:43,410 Um, I think it can help a lot more than that. 459 00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:51,030 Um, and especially at the time we find ourselves both in history, economically, and that fear factor of AI taking over the world. 460 00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:52,570 But just remember, right? 461 00:41:52,650 --> 00:42:03,810 Social, this is the first major pivot we've had where 8 billion people in the world have been connected with social media and the algorithms are designed to make us fear all this stuff. 462 00:42:03,870 --> 00:42:04,110 Right. 463 00:42:04,410 --> 00:42:06,790 You know, and it dates back to caveman days, right? 464 00:42:06,890 --> 00:42:13,010 We, the brain is wired that way we got up and I don't want to get eaten by a saber tooth tiger or a mammoth today. 465 00:42:13,090 --> 00:42:15,870 I just got to go find some food and get back in my shelter. 466 00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:19,950 Um, so connect the dots and lean into this. 467 00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:20,590 I love it. 468 00:42:20,730 --> 00:42:21,210 I love it. 469 00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:25,310 So look, we've got to this bit in the show, Chris, I like to call sticky notes. 470 00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:39,350 I'm going to ask you to try and leave the audience with three little pearls of wisdom that for you crystallize the notion and maybe even the actions associated with non-optional collaboration. 471 00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:48,810 So if you were to leave behind three little sticky notes, the people could stick around their screen to remind them every day when they're working, what they need to do, what would those three things be my friend? 472 00:42:49,890 --> 00:42:56,630 Well, first of all, you got to take a reflection on even the request for sticky notes, because even in this digital, because I'm dead serious about it, right? 473 00:42:56,910 --> 00:43:06,590 Even in this digital era, the practical reality of having a sticky note on your screen, on your phone is incredibly powerful. 474 00:43:06,590 --> 00:43:09,330 And I think that is a multi-generational generational benefit. 475 00:43:09,710 --> 00:43:11,810 Um, it's a great way to finish this session. 476 00:43:11,810 --> 00:43:28,130 Cause it's a real challenge to someone like me that is so passionate on so many topics, but you know, I'll give you, I'll give you my three, you know, you hit on it a number one mindset matters, you know, positive mental attitude, but it takes some work. 477 00:43:28,170 --> 00:43:36,270 You know, we're getting bombarded by stuff that takes us down rabbit holes and God, you know, God knows the market for cat videos out there. 478 00:43:36,330 --> 00:43:41,810 There's a lot of distractions out there, you know, lean into stuff that will get you in the right frame of mind. 479 00:43:41,890 --> 00:43:49,350 A friend of mine's launched a super conscious app that helps you program your brain on a regular basis to stay focused and stay positive. 480 00:43:49,550 --> 00:43:51,630 So number one, mindset matters. 481 00:43:51,810 --> 00:43:57,090 And, and PMA is the little acronym I use positive mental attitude, work on it. 482 00:43:57,250 --> 00:44:01,070 It's okay to have a bad day, but reset yourself and lean in to be positive. 483 00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:07,830 Number two, sometimes you got to slow down to speed up and that's the art of collaboration, right? 484 00:44:07,890 --> 00:44:09,630 This isn't functional speed. 485 00:44:09,630 --> 00:44:11,270 This is company speed. 486 00:44:11,410 --> 00:44:16,290 You know, it's getting that pit stop done in under three seconds versus 21 seconds. 487 00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:16,630 Right? 488 00:44:17,110 --> 00:44:26,110 So be conscious of it, be curious and God forbid you listen to the other function that think is trying to add value to your role. 489

00:44:26,650 --> 00:44:34,710 Um, and I think the third one is a little bit of, you know, you alluded to it again in this great session, Andy, you know, have a plan, work the plan. 490 00:44:34,970 --> 00:44:39,510 We've been telling people that for years, why on earth do not enough people do that? 491 00:44:40,350 --> 00:44:46,730 But you get into the whole philosophy of change management and it's, you know, yo, I need to go to the gym every day, but I don't, and I'm distracted. 492 00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:47,470 It's blah, blah, blah. 493 00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:54,510 But you know, in all seriousness, and that's what I've tried to give with the book, give people at least a framework that is not just Chris White's experience. 494 00:44:54,510 --> 00:45:04,610 It's based on working with the great John chambers, history, training sessions, great HR and functional leaders, but have a plan, work the plan, right? 495 00:45:04,650 --> 00:45:06,350 Don't confuse effort with results. 496 00:45:06,490 --> 00:45:10,290 Um, and to, to the sobering reality of what I was challenged with, right? 497 00:45:11,090 --> 00:45:12,770 You know, you got to enjoy the journey. 498 00:45:12,850 --> 00:45:18,030 I know that's a throwaway throwaway line, but boy, you know, enjoy that world cup game. 499 00:45:18,070 --> 00:45:19,390 Enjoy that cup of coffee. 500 00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:21,350 Enjoy the time you have with your loved ones. 501 00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:26,830 Cause you know, there's a randomness to life that you never know that you never know what's around the corner. 502 00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:30,030 So, you know, try and embrace it, but it takes some work. 503 00:45:30,510 --> 00:45:36,930 Amen to that, my friend, Chris, I've really enjoyed meeting, connecting, listening to you. 504 00:45:37,650 --> 00:45:43,570 If the listeners would like to find out a bit more about you and the work that you're doing and get hold of the book, where can they track you down, my friend? 505 00:45:43,870 --> 00:45:44,990 Oh, thank you, Andy, for that. 506 00:45:45,350 --> 00:45:48,690 Um, you know, first of all, you know, I, my daughter helped me launch it. 507 00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:52,250 I've got a website called non-optional direct collaboration.com. 508 00:45:52,330 --> 00:46:02,890 So literally www.nonoptionalcollaboration.com book is available, you know, not at all leading retailers, but on good old Amazon, it's on Amazon UK, it's on Amazon India. 509 00:46:03,130 --> 00:46:04,070 It's on Amazon Australia. 510 00:46:04,570 --> 00:46:07,710 It's on Amazon USA, again, non-optional collaboration. 511 00:46:08,310 --> 00:46:10,370 And then too, I'm an actual collaborator, right? 512 00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:12,770 I enjoy connecting with people on LinkedIn. 513 00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:17,990 So it's Chris White, uh, you know, IOE, um, look me up, connect me. 514 00:46:18,130 --> 00:46:25,750 You know, I like to continue this conversation with equally passionate people, Andy, that kind of give a damn and want to make a positive influence on people. 515 00:46:26,010 --> 00:46:34,410 So, you know, I I'm looking forward to us continuing this conversation and our collaboration and, you know, you're, you're a friend of my brother's and he's got a tremendous amount of respect for you. 516 00:46:34,510 --> 00:46:36,970 So thank you, Michael, for introducing us together. 517 00:46:37,550 --> 00:46:40,210 Um, but you know, let's see what else we can do together as well. 518 00:46:40,250 --> 00:46:41,210 Andy, I'm glad we're connected. 519 00:46:41,650 --> 00:46:42,750 I look forward to that, my friend. 520 00:46:42,910 --> 00:46:43,110 Brilliant. 521 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:45,350 Listen, thank you so much for coming on. 522 00:46:45,730 --> 00:46:49,430 It's been absolutely fantastic and the best of luck with the book and everything else that you're doing right now. 523 00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:50,870 I appreciate it. 524 00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:52,050 Great job back at you, Andy. 525 00:46:52,190 --> 00:46:57,730 It's a great, great podcast and looking forward to touching base and helping interact with more of your, your listeners. 526 00:46:58,150 --> 00:46:58,830 Thank you very much. 527 00:46:59,530 --> 00:47:01,230 Okay, everyone, that was Chris White. 528 00:47:01,370 --> 00:47:08,110 And if you'd like to find out a bit more about him or any of the topics that we've talked about on today's show, please check out the show notes. 529 00:47:10,690 --> 00:47:13,070 So that concludes today's episode. 530 00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:23,550 I hope you've enjoyed it, found it interesting and heard something maybe that will help you become a stickier, more successful business from the inside going forward. 531 00:47:24,370 --> 00:47:27,770 If you have, please like comment and subscribe. 532 00:47:28,310 --> 00:47:29,330 It really helps. 533 00:47:30,310 --> 00:47:36,070 I'm Andy Goram, and you've been listening to the sticky from the inside podcast until next time. 534 00:47:36,410 --> 00:47:37,430 Thanks for listening.