النص الكامل لحلقة Starknet considers L1 transition - live with Eli Ben-Sasson

Keystone had long claimed it wiped 95 00:02:49,180 --> 00:02:51,079 shipping data after 180 96 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,059 days, but customers say information 97 00:02:53,060 --> 00:02:54,939 from much older orders was 98 00:02:54,940 --> 00:02:56,020 exposed anyway. 99 00:02:57,100 --> 00:02:58,819 Moving on, the weekend brought pain 100 00:02:58,820 --> 00:02:59,919 for bulls. 101 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:01,319 Bitcoin briefly slipped below 102 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,579 $80,000 on Saturday and 103 00:03:03,580 --> 00:03:04,959 traders betting on higher prices 104 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,279 took the brunt of it. 105 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,239 Of some $36 106 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,659 million in positions liquidated 107 00:03:11,660 --> 00:03:13,299 in just four hours. 108 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:15,139 More than 404 million were long 109 00:03:15,140 --> 00:03:17,059 positions, according to data from 110 00:03:17,060 --> 00:03:17,919 CoinGlass. 111 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:19,699 Most of the damage came in two sharp 112 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:21,719 15 minute bursts as Bitcoin 113 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,559 tumbled. 114 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,519 It followed a second straight day of 115 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,509 spot ETF outflows and 116 00:03:26,510 --> 00:03:27,989 Bitmex co-founder Arthur Hayes 117 00:03:27,990 --> 00:03:29,849 saying overnight that he'd sold 118 00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:31,869 out of his funds directional book, 119 00:03:31,870 --> 00:03:33,829 saying that he had dumped it 120 00:03:33,830 --> 00:03:34,709 all. 121 00:03:34,710 --> 00:03:35,849 Then a major legal win for 122 00:03:35,850 --> 00:03:37,709 Argentina's president, a federal 123 00:03:37,710 --> 00:03:39,489 judge on Friday, dismissed the 124 00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:41,309 criminal case against Javier Millet 125 00:03:41,310 --> 00:03:42,849 over his promotion of the Libra 126 00:03:42,850 --> 00:03:44,669 token, ruling that the events under 127 00:03:44,670 --> 00:03:46,669 investigation don't fit any legal 128 00:03:46,670 --> 00:03:47,689 offense. 129 00:03:47,690 --> 00:03:49,829 The 60 page decision clears Millet, 130 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:51,029 his sister and presidential 131 00:03:51,030 --> 00:03:53,289 secretary, General Karina Millet 132 00:03:53,290 --> 00:03:55,429 and nine others, including Hayden 133 00:03:55,430 --> 00:03:57,049 Davis. The American who called 134 00:03:57,050 --> 00:03:59,209 himself Libra's launch advisor. 135 00:03:59,210 --> 00:04:00,829 The judge found no criminally 136 00:04:00,830 --> 00:04:02,169 relevant deception. 137 00:04:02,170 --> 00:04:03,429 It may not be over though, some 138 00:04:03,430 --> 00:04:04,809 investors who lost money on the 139 00:04:04,810 --> 00:04:07,069 token say they're looking for 140 00:04:07,070 --> 00:04:09,069 a path to appeal on. 141 00:04:09,070 --> 00:04:10,229 Something tells me we're not gonna 142 00:04:10,230 --> 00:04:12,089 see the end of that story 143 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:13,429 just yet. 144 00:04:13,430 --> 00:04:14,849 Our final story of the day, Tether's 145 00:04:14,850 --> 00:04:17,129 facing fresh scrutiny in Washington. 146 00:04:17,130 --> 00:04:18,949 Senator Richard Blumenthal says he 147 00:04:18,950 --> 00:04:21,009 wants answers after reports that the 148 00:04:21,010 --> 00:04:22,669 stable coin giant paid millions of 149 00:04:22,670 --> 00:04:24,589 dollars to consulting firms started 150 00:04:24,590 --> 00:04:25,979 by former White House. 151 00:04:25,980 --> 00:04:27,799 Crypto advisor Bo Heinz and his 152 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,519 father, all whilst stable coin 153 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,239 legislation was being negotiated 154 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,439 into law. 155 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,139 The Connecticut Democrat says that 156 00:04:34,140 --> 00:04:35,699 relationship raises legal and 157 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:37,359 ethical questions, and he's asked 158 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,119 Tether to hand over records of its 159 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,539 dealings with the firm called Nexum, 160 00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:44,019 as well as with Heinz directly. 161 00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:45,859 Tether has not been accused 162 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:47,219 of wrongdoing. 163 00:04:47,220 --> 00:04:48,819 And that is it for the block 164 00:04:48,820 --> 00:04:50,659 briefing this afternoon or this 165 00:04:50,660 --> 00:04:51,579 morning, depending on where you're 166 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:53,239 joining us. We're gonna be moving 167 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,079 swiftly into the hot seat segment 168 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,159 of the show. It's a great pleasure 169 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,399 to welcome Eli Ben-Sasson, 170 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,319 co-founder of Starkware, a man 171 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:01,339 who's been involved in many 172 00:05:01,340 --> 00:05:02,559 different projects over the years 173 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,439 and someone I look up to 174 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,599 as a real industry veteran 175 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:07,999 and OG. 176 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:08,979 Eli, it's great to have you on the 177 00:05:08,980 --> 00:05:09,759 show 178 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,719 Great to be back, Gareth, 179 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,539 good to talk to you again. 180 00:05:13,540 --> 00:05:15,299 Yeah, we've both been busy, we both 181 00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:16,679 been on the road. So I think we're 182 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,459 both enjoying some home time, but 183 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:19,919 I'm going to be jumping straight 184 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,999 into the 185 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,299 juice this afternoon because there's 186 00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:25,439 been a lot of chatter online and 187 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,199 obviously from your own ex account 188 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,399 talking about the

potential 189 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,639 of stocknet becoming 190 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:32,899 its own L1. 191 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:33,839 Can you talk to us a little bit 192 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:35,779 about what got 193 00:05:35,780 --> 00:05:37,579 you up to this point, the community 194 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:39,499 vote kind of indicating that 195 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:41,279 you should be researching what it 196 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:42,559 might take to move away from 197 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:43,449 Ethereum. 198 00:05:43,450 --> 00:05:45,849 Yeah, so right now, 199 00:05:45,850 --> 00:05:48,009 one of the parts of our security 200 00:05:48,010 --> 00:05:49,769 relies on the security of Ethereum. 201 00:05:50,790 --> 00:05:53,669 And with all of the 202 00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:55,629 improvements in quantum computers 203 00:05:55,630 --> 00:05:57,689 and in AI 204 00:05:57,690 --> 00:05:58,989 speeding up the timelines, 205 00:06:00,350 --> 00:06:02,069 the stark new ecosystem is worried 206 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:04,129 that this layer of security will not 207 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:06,129 be able to upgrade 208 00:06:06,130 --> 00:06:08,189 to post-quantum safety fast 209 00:06:08,190 --> 00:06:10,809 enough. And in order to secure. 210 00:06:10,810 --> 00:06:12,609 Starknet the assets there the 211 00:06:12,610 --> 00:06:14,249 protocol and also to offer a safe 212 00:06:14,250 --> 00:06:16,189 haven for those in crypto who are 213 00:06:16,190 --> 00:06:18,289 looking to move to higher ground 214 00:06:18,290 --> 00:06:20,449 The community has voted strongly 215 00:06:20,450 --> 00:06:22,809 in favor like 93% in favor 216 00:06:22,810 --> 00:06:24,689 of doing further research in 217 00:06:24,690 --> 00:06:26,689 order to create 218 00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:28,629 Basically to make Starknet 219 00:06:28,630 --> 00:06:30,009 a layer one that is fully post 220 00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:31,579 quantum secure 221 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:33,019 What would that look like and how 222 00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:33,839 long would that take? 223 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:34,899 I mean, obviously it needs to start 224 00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:35,779 with research. 225 00:06:35,780 --> 00:06:37,099 Can you talk to us a little bit 226 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:38,919 about the process? 227 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,959 Yeah, so StarCore moves and Starknet 228 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,339 moves extremely fast in 229 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:44,799 our development. 230 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,179 So I think the research is going to 231 00:06:46,180 --> 00:06:48,159 take just a very small number of 232 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,839 weeks. Well, before the end of the 233 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:51,659 year, I don't know, a month 234 00:06:51,660 --> 00:06:53,920 or so, let's say tentatively. 235 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,419 And I think development is also 236 00:06:56,420 --> 00:06:58,099 going to be at a very,

very rapid 237 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:00,119 pace because there's a lot of 238 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,359 urgency coming from 239 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,139 the market about this particular 240 00:07:04,140 --> 00:07:07,539 thing. People are aware. 241 00:07:07,540 --> 00:07:09,359 Of the danger out there. 242 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,679 We don't know when we'll hear about 243 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,619 the next breakthroughs in quantum 244 00:07:13,620 --> 00:07:14,620 computing. 245 00:07:15,220 --> 00:07:16,879 And there's this realization that 246 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,239 pretty much none of the blue chip 247 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,159 tokens today are post-quantum 248 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,199 secure. And this is a very big 249 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,259 concern. I hear this from 250 00:07:24,260 --> 00:07:26,199 asset allocators, hedge 251 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,420 funds, sovereign wealth funds, 252 00:07:29,780 --> 00:07:32,039 large leaders of protocols. 253 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:33,859 Everyone is concerned. 254 00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:35,739 Yeah, while we were in 255 00:07:35,740 --> 00:07:37,699 token 2040 2049 in 256 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:38,999 Singapore I think Justin Drake put 257 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,459 out a tweet that kind of sounded the 258 00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:42,299 alarm once again on the quantum 259 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:44,079 threat and perhaps the unreadiness 260 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,419 of the industry do you share those 261 00:07:45,420 --> 00:07:47,239 thoughts and can you give our 262 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,419 Viewers out there maybe just a quick 263 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:52,159 kind of explainer of the quantum 264 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,379 thread to most of the blockchains 265 00:07:54,380 --> 00:07:55,659 that exist today you know Bitcoin 266 00:07:55,660 --> 00:07:57,479 Ethereum, etc, and 267 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,559 If it's as as real and 268 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,779 present as some claims 269 00:08:02,230 --> 00:08:03,689 Yeah, one thing that was very 270 00:08:03,690 --> 00:08:05,749 interesting in what Justin said was 271 00:08:05,750 --> 00:08:08,029 that among the 272 00:08:08,030 --> 00:08:09,649 700 plus breakthroughs in 273 00:08:09,650 --> 00:08:11,249 mathematics that were released by 274 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:13,209 OpenAI about two 275 00:08:13,210 --> 00:08:15,009 weeks ago, there is not even a 276 00:08:15,010 --> 00:08:16,729 single one that directly talks about 277 00:08:16,730 --> 00:08:17,749 any of the cryptographic 278 00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:19,489 constructions used in public key 279 00:08:19,490 --> 00:08:20,389 encryption. 280 00:08:20,390 --> 00:08:22,349 And this is very, very 281 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:24,669 strange because we saw breakthroughs 282 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:26,689 on things as old and 283 00:08:26,690 --> 00:08:28,569 basic as integer 284 00:08:28,570 --> 00:08:29,809 multiplication and matrix 285 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:30,810 multiplication. 286 00:08:31,530 --> 00:08:33,589 In my assessment, and I have 287 00:08:33,590 --> 00:08:35,589 no private information, 288 00:08:35,590 --> 00:08:37,428 I don't have any information 289 00:08:37,429 --> 00:08:39,288 from the AI labs, but as 290 00:08:39,289 --> 00:08:41,369 an outsider, my speculation 291 00:08:41,370 --> 00:08:43,829 is that there's only two cases here. 292 00:08:43,830 --> 00:08:45,929 Either there are breaks 293 00:08:45,930 --> 00:08:47,449 that have been found by the labs and 294 00:08:47,450 --> 00:08:48,369 they don't want to release them 295 00:08:48,370 --> 00:08:50,909 because they want to prepare 296 00:08:52,010 --> 00:08:53,929 whoever they're talking to to be 297 00:08:53,930 --> 00:08:54,879 ready for this. 298 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,719 Or they haven't found quite 299 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,379 the breaks, but they found things 300 00:08:58,380 --> 00:08:59,759 that could lead to breaks and then 301 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,159 they're worried that if they release 302 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,160 this information, 303 00:09:03,140 --> 00:09:05,019 others may use it and 304 00:09:05,020 --> 00:09:06,999 a break will be created. 305 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,099 So, like, the concern is that, 306 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:11,499 you know, we say your 307 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:13,399 keys, your coins, this holds 308 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,579 only if the cryptography is sound. 309 00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:17,319 And the concern that quantum 310 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,639 computers and maybe other breaks 311 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,819 from the superintelligence of 312 00:09:21,820 --> 00:09:24,599 AI will lead to 313 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,619 being you know just these keys being 314 00:09:26,620 --> 00:09:28,579 leaked out and and then 315 00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:30,179 you know the value of tokens will 316 00:09:30,180 --> 00:09:32,299 just drop to very 317 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:34,239 low numbers so that that 318 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,739 is the concern and it is just out 319 00:09:36,740 --> 00:09:38,119 there and we need to do something 320 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,319 about it. 321 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:40,739 Elliot, this isn't the first time 322 00:09:40,740 --> 00:09:42,819 that a 323 00:09:42,820 --> 00:09:44,579 chain or a protocol has moved away 324 00:09:44,580 --> 00:09:45,979 from the Ethereum ecosystem. 325 00:09:47,580 --> 00:09:50,079 Would this mean that 326 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:51,619 StarkNet itself would still remain 327 00:09:51,620 --> 00:09:52,859 sort of EVM compatible? 328 00:09:52,860 --> 00:09:55,099 I mean, is that key to keeping 329 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:58,459 things open and interoperable? 330 00:09:58,460 --> 00:09:59,639 And yeah, what are your general 331 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,679 thoughts on some of the other 332

00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:02,799 tokens? Because I believe CZ 333 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,319 Online was also talking about BNB 334 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:06,249 chain kind of. 335 00:10:06,250 --> 00:10:08,129 Breaking away and turning into 336 00:10:08,130 --> 00:10:10,489 more of an L1, remaining 337 00:10:10,490 --> 00:10:12,489 EVM compatible, but also again 338 00:10:12,490 --> 00:10:13,709 probably following a similar 339 00:10:13,710 --> 00:10:15,649 direction that stocknet 340 00:10:15,650 --> 00:10:16,650 might be. 341 00:10:17,110 --> 00:10:18,669 First of all, Starknet right now 342 00:10:18,670 --> 00:10:20,949 doesn't have an EVM, 343 00:10:20,950 --> 00:10:24,069 but the interesting thing is there's 344 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:25,989 this meme circling around, which 345 00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:28,029 is that where Starknet 346 00:10:28,030 --> 00:10:30,089 is today is where Ethereum is 347 00:10:30,090 --> 00:10:31,889 heading towards tomorrow. 348 00:10:31,890 --> 00:10:33,109 Because if you look at the plans for 349 00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:35,129 Ethereum, they talk about using ZK 350 00:10:35,130 --> 00:10:37,049 Stark proofs, allowing 351 00:10:37,050 --> 00:10:39,129 much more scale, adding privacy, 352 00:10:39,130 --> 00:10:40,709 using a new VM that is 353 00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:41,709 Stark-friendly. 354 00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:43,209 All of this is exactly what Starknet 355 00:10:43,210 --> 00:10:44,210 does today. 356 00:10:45,209 --> 00:10:46,909 In terms of the technology, we're 357 00:10:46,910 --> 00:10:48,509 already ahead of Ethereum. 358 00:10:48,510 --> 00:10:50,149 Ethereum is heading towards this 359 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:51,489 direction, which I think is a very 360 00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:52,969 wise move. 361 00:10:52,970 --> 00:10:54,709 So in that sense, we won't be losing 362 00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:55,710 anything. 363 00:10:56,589 --> 00:10:57,889 Interoperability can still be 364 00:10:57,890 --> 00:10:58,929 maintained, just like you have 365 00:10:58,930 --> 00:11:00,469 interoperability between different 366 00:11:00,470 --> 00:11:02,089 chains, right? You can move between 367 00:11:02,090 --> 00:11:03,449 Solana and Ethereum, it's not a 368 00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:05,489 problem. The one thing we will 369 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:07,729 try to maximize is the quantum 370 00:11:07,730 --> 00:11:09,669 safety of this 371 00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:11,569 thing that is starknet, right, 372 00:11:11,570 --> 00:11:12,629 so we'll need to have some sort 373 00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:13,829 floodgates. 374 00:11:13,830 --> 00:11:15,709 That can shut automatically or 375 00:11:15,710 --> 00:11:18,069 manually if a quantum 376 00:11:18,070 --> 00:11:20,129 threat or an AI threat 377 00:11:20,130 --> 00:11:21,509 ever materializes. 378 00:11:21,510 --> 00:11:23,349 But other than that, I expect a very 379 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:25,749 good UX, a lot of interoperability 380 00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:27,589 and smooth transition 381 00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:29,090 into and out of Stark. 382 00:11:30,270 --> 00:11:31,849 Just a little bit further afield, 383 00:11:31,850 --> 00:11:33,209 Eli, I'm very curious to pick your 384 00:11:33,210 --> 00:11:35,149 brain a little bit on the 385 00:11:35,150 --> 00:11:37,929 speed at which AI is progressing. 386 00:11:37,930 --> 00:11:39,369 I know most people are just using it 387 00:11:39,370 --> 00:11:40,489 in their general days. Some people 388 00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:42,269 are power users, some people are 389 00:11:42,270 --> 00:11:44,289 using it like Google. 390 00:11:44,290 --> 00:11:46,269 How much have you integrated AI 391 00:11:46,270 --> 00:11:47,449 tools? Can you give us a bit of a 392 00:11:47,450 --> 00:11:48,929 glimpse into what you like to use 393 00:11:48,930 --> 00:11:50,949 and perhaps some of the power 394 00:11:50,950 --> 00:11:52,749 or unlocks that you've been able to 395 00:11:52,750 --> 00:11:54,609 achieve in recent months using 396 00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:55,619 this tech? 397 00:11:55,620 --> 00:11:56,899 So, you know, before I co-founded 398 00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:58,759 Starkware, I co founded Zcash, and 399 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,759 before both of these things, I was 400 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,559 actually a mathematician. 401 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,219 I used to do research. 402 00:12:04,220 --> 00:12:06,179 And as of half a year ago, 403 00:12:06,180 --> 00:12:08,319 I am utterly shocked that 404 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,899 my previous occupation has 405 00:12:10,900 --> 00:12:12,819 ceased to exist in the way it used 406 00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:13,779 to be. 407 00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:15,599 Like, you now, even the luminaries 408 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,539 of mathematics 409 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:19,599 today realize that they no 410 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,859 longer can give a fight to 411 00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:23,299 AI when it comes to proving 412 00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:24,469 breakthrough results. 413 00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:26,749 And these past 722 414 00:12:26,750 --> 00:12:28,649 results that were released by OpenAI 415 00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:31,029 like completely just 416 00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:33,109 basically buried any 417 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:35,009 hope of mathematicians being 418 00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:37,129 at the vanguard of 419 00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:38,149 advancing math. 420 00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:40,009 Okay, so I am still under 421 00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:42,529 the shock of this realization. 422 00:12:42,530 --> 00:12:44,689 I never expected this in my lifetime 423 00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:46,849 that AI would be so smart. 424 00:12:46,850 --> 00:12:48,349 And obviously we haven't seen the 425 00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:49,289 end of it, right? 426 00:12:49,290 --> 00:12:51,069 We don't know how much smarter AI 427 00:12:51,070 --> 00:12:53,068 could become. So,

okay. 428 00:12:53,069 --> 00:12:54,689 At Starkware, like many other 429 00:12:54,690 --> 00:12:56,509 places, but we are very quick 430 00:12:56,510 --> 00:12:58,609 to adopt AI 431 00:12:58,610 --> 00:13:00,469 tools. Like all of our coding today 432 00:13:00,470 --> 00:13:02,349 is obviously involves 433 00:13:02,350 --> 00:13:04,469 a lot of usage of AI. 434 00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:05,869 You know, my own personal, the way I 435 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:07,329 do research, the way communicate 436 00:13:07,330 --> 00:13:09,889 involves a lot AI. 437 00:13:09,890 --> 00:13:12,029 But in this sense, you know, 438 00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:13,168 okay. 439 00:13:13,169 --> 00:13:14,969 Starkware is like a very advanced 440 00:13:14,970 --> 00:13:16,469 company. We move very fast and we 441 00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:18,469 moved very fast in adapting AI, 442 00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:20,429 but I would say we're not outliers 443 00:13:20,430 --> 00:13:21,709 in this since, right? 444 00:13:21,710 --> 00:13:22,979 Everyone's doing that. 445 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:24,319 And really, there is no other 446 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,409 option. 447 00:13:25,410 --> 00:13:26,749 Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to hear 448 00:13:26,750 --> 00:13:27,829 your thoughts sort of on AI 449 00:13:27,830 --> 00:13:28,929 doomerism because there's a lot of 450 00:13:28,930 --> 00:13:30,249 people on one side of the fence say 451 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:31,869 that like this, this could be the 452 00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:32,689 end of us. 453 00:13:32,690 --> 00:13:34,429 I'm more of a glass half full type 454 00:13:34,430 --> 00:13:36,149 person and I think it's going to be 455 00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:37,049 very positive. 456 00:13:37,050 --> 00:13:38,989 But it is, it's clear to 457 00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:40,189 see that the industry has suffered 458 00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:41,669 at the hands of, you know, AI 459 00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:43,609 assisted attacks and 460 00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:44,909 hacks in recent weeks. 461 00:13:44,910 --> 00:13:45,789 And I mean we just look at the 462 00:13:45,790 --> 00:13:47,809 Bitcoin ecosystem, you 463 00:13:47,810 --> 00:13:48,969 know, some of the exploits that have 464 00:13:48,970 --> 00:13:51,189 been found, the cold card hack, you 465 00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:53,049 now, the ledger incident, there's 466 00:13:53,050 --> 00:13:54,289 clearly a lot of this that comes 467 00:13:54,290 --> 00:13:55,239 down to. 468 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,919 The advances in AI tools. 469 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,019 Do you still, or perhaps do 470 00:14:00,020 --> 00:14:01,739 you have some concerns that the 471 00:14:01,740 --> 00:14:03,239 crypto industry might still be in 472 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,119 the crosshairs and when is it gonna 473 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,059 be sort of Tradfire's turn to 474 00:14:07,060 --> 00:14:08,659 be the main target? 475 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:09,959 Oh, they're both. 476 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,579 So TradFi is in the crosshairs as 477 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:12,979 well. You know, it's less reported 478 00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:14,739 and, you know, TradFi has other 479 00:14:14,740 --> 00:14:16,359 mitigations. But these attacks are 480 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,899 just, you know, basically what's 481 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:20,679 happening is AI is discovering more 482 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,799 weaknesses in all systems 483 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,359 out there. And then these are 484 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,099 exploited time and again. 485 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:28,139 So this is happening in the TradFi 486 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:30,099 world. It's happening in 487 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,419 in the DeFi and crypto world. 488 00:14:32,420 --> 00:14:33,459 I side with you. 489 00:14:33,460 --> 00:14:35,379 I'm an optimist in general. 490 00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:36,799 I think that OK, so right now you 491 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,729 have like a 492 00:14:38,730 --> 00:14:40,689 smarter set of auditors 493 00:14:40,690 --> 00:14:42,029 and coders and so on. 494 00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:44,009 And I think overall these 495 00:14:44,010 --> 00:14:45,649 sort of broken windows will be fixed 496 00:14:45,650 --> 00:14:47,489 and we will end up having 497 00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:49,489 a safer system. 498 00:14:49,490 --> 00:14:51,629 Of course, this doesn't do 499 00:14:51,630 --> 00:14:53,329 much for those who are currently 500 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:54,269 affected, right? 501 00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:56,369 If your window is broken and 502 00:14:56,370 --> 00:14:58,349 your stuff was stolen, this is 503 00:14:58,350 --> 00:14:59,350 very unfortunate. 504 00:15:00,150 --> 00:15:01,669 I don't know what to say about that 505 00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:03,849 other than we're trying all of us 506 00:15:03,850 --> 00:15:05,249 within the crypto industry to do our 507 00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:07,609 best. With AI, without AI, 508 00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:09,209 to audit, to improve things, to make 509 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:11,249 sure that we can try and basically 510 00:15:11,250 --> 00:15:13,109 fix the broken windows or 511 00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:15,649 the leaks using AI before 512 00:15:15,650 --> 00:15:17,149 the bad guys do that. 513 00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:18,909 But I think that overall this will 514 00:15:18,910 --> 00:15:20,849 end in a much better system, both 515 00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:22,689 for the TradFi world, the DeFi 516 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:24,789 world crypto world, but 517 00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:26,629 there will be more breaks and 518 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:28,999 hacks along the way, unfortunately. 519 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,019 Yeah, no, it kind 520 00:15:31,020 --> 00:15:32,199 of just seems like par for the 521 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,139 course, and fortunately as that 522 00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:35,259 is. 523 00:15:35,260

--> 00:15:37,199 My parting question to you, just to 524 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,779 keep it as brief as possible and be 525 00:15:38,780 --> 00:15:40,759 respectful of your time. 526 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,719 Obviously, you're a Zcash protocol 527 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,299 co-founder. 528 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:45,439 There'll be a lot of our viewers out 529 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,279 there that would be interested 530 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,799 to hear your sort of take on where 531 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,739 Zcache is at at the moment, 532 00:15:50,740 --> 00:15:52,039 both from a protocol point of view 533 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,339 and recent updates that have 534 00:15:53,340 --> 00:15:54,859 happened. 535 00:15:54,860 --> 00:15:57,039 And yeah, perhaps your forecast 536 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,929 for the next year or two and 537 00:15:58,930 --> 00:16:00,489 privacy-focused protocols in 538 00:16:00,490 --> 00:16:01,490 general. 539 00:16:01,860 --> 00:16:04,379 Yeah, so I co-founded Zcash. 540 00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:06,639 I built, you know, I co invented, 541 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:07,679 co authored some of the math 542 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,519 underlying it, but I'm not 543 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:10,459 involved for many years. 544 00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:11,959 I mean, I'm a friend of many of the 545 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,039 people in the ecosystem and I very 546 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,659 much support it, but I am not 547 00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:17,259 involved. I don't have any deep 548 00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:18,919 insight into what's going on there. 549 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,799 I think it's a very sound protocol 550 00:16:22,339 --> 00:16:24,259 and I hope it keeps 551 00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:26,079 on performing well and people like 552 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,039 it and understand that privacy is 553 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,040 a basic human right. 554 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:32,279 Where my focus 555 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,159 is on these days is on having 556 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,619 things like post-quantum secure and 557 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,899 programmable versions of privacy, 558 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:40,239 which is what we're doing on 559 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,559 StarkNet. It is integrated with 560 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,539 Zcash as well via things like near 561 00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:47,899 intents. You can 562 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:50,219 actually do DeFi 563 00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:52,519 with ZCash on Starknet 564 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,499 in a privacy-preserving manner and 565 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:56,379 with good UX. So that is where my 566 00:16:56,380 --> 00:16:57,759 focus is at. 567 00:16:59,069 --> 00:17:01,029 Privacy is important for basic 568 00:17:01,030 --> 00:17:02,709 transfers, which is what Zcash 569 00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:04,989 allows for, but 570 00:17:04,990 --> 00:17:06,909 my passion as a technologist is 571 00:17:06,910 --> 00:17:09,169 to have privacy that is programmable 572 00:17:09,170 --> 00:17:10,969 and usable with good UX, a little 573 00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:13,429 bit like when you use Robinhood 574 00:17:13,430 --> 00:17:14,828 or Revolut, like you have this 575 00:17:14,829 --> 00:17:16,669 privacy that allows you under it to 576 00:17:16,670 --> 00:17:18,709 do a lot of things that no one sees. 577 00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:20,088 That's something that we're enabling 578 00:17:20,089 --> 00:17:22,009 on Starknet, and I'm very passionate 579 00:17:22,010 --> 00:17:23,769 about that. I hope we have further 580 00:17:23,770 --> 00:17:25,588 integrations with Zcache so 581 00:17:25,589 --> 00:17:27,489 that it is even more seamless to use 582 00:17:27,490 --> 00:17:29,579 it from Zcach, But In 583 00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:31,759 any case, I think 584 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,819 privacy will continue evolving 585 00:17:33,820 --> 00:17:35,859 and being adapted and 586 00:17:35,860 --> 00:17:37,479 improving on the UX side and the 587 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,419 usability, and we'll have 588 00:17:39,420 --> 00:17:41,239 full 589 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,079 post-quantum security very soon 590 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,059 on StartNet, which is what I'm 591 00:17:45,060 --> 00:17:46,439 working on and very enthusiastic 592 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,439 about. 593 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,739 Beautiful, just to put a 594 00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:51,579 ribbon on the interview, just to go 595 00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:52,759 back to the initial sort of 596 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:53,760 conversation starter, 597 00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:57,639 StarkNet considering putting in 598 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:58,739 the research to move away from 599 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:01,379 Ethereum and become its own L1. 600 00:18:01,380 --> 00:18:03,019 Just the thoughts on Ethereum, is it 601 00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:04,959 just a case of perhaps not being 602 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,639 able to move as quickly as you would 603 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,879 like to give you these assurances 604 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,019 that you need for 605 00:18:11,020 --> 00:18:12,099 a post-quantum world? 606 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,339 It's that in particular. 607 00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:19,759 I mean, there are other issues with 608 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,699 Ethereum, but that's a topic 609 00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:23,979 for a different conversation. 610 00:18:23,980 --> 00:18:25,579 Fantastic, I'll leave it at that. 611 00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:26,599 I'll respect it. 612 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,199 Ellie, thanks so much for your time. 613 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,719 We'll be chatting to you fairly soon 614 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,479 and we'll keep an eye out for 615 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,119 updates from the Starkware and 616 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:33,999 StarkNet team. 617

00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,039 If you are interested, you can 618 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,399 follow Starkware on X and Starknet 619 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,299 if you're interested in keeping 620 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:40,499 tabs on what's happening there 621 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:41,899 because they're gonna be starting to 622 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:42,819 do this research. 623 00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:44,279 Ellie, thank you so much. 624 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,999 You are free to drop off. 625 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:46,979 We'll just do some housekeeping 626 00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:48,379 here. If you haven't been watching 627 00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:49,499 the show for the last couple of 628 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:51,399 weeks, we have been on the road for 629 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,209 quite a while. 630 00:18:52,210 --> 00:18:54,109 We were in Lugano last 631 00:18:54,110 --> 00:18:55,929 week broadcasting at the Future 632 00:18:55,930 --> 00:18:56,969 of Capital Markets Summit. 633 00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:58,369 We had some fantastic interviews, 634 00:18:58,370 --> 00:19:00,209 including Matt Cole, who's the CEO 635 00:19:00,210 --> 00:19:01,649 of Strive, talking to us about how 636 00:19:01,650 --> 00:19:03,209 they came up with these daily 637 00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:04,729 dividends that Michael Saylor and 638 00:19:04,730 --> 00:19:06,469 Strategy has now emulated. 639 00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:08,369 We also spoke to Raf Zaguri, who 640 00:19:08,370 --> 00:19:10,209 is the new CEO of 21. 641 00:19:10,210 --> 00:19:12,089 Of course, he took over after Jack 642 00:19:12,090 --> 00:19:13,229 Mallers announced that he would be 643 00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:14,669 leaving 21. 644 00:19:14,670 --> 00:19:17,069 After some time at the helm of 645 00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:19,069 21 as CEO, he moved on earlier 646 00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:19,909 this year. 647 00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:21,189 Really, really interesting conversations 648 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:22,959 there. And then a little bit further 649 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,659 back in time, we were at Token 2049 650 00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:26,199 broadcasting there. 651 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,759 We spent some time at the NASDAQ two 652 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,599 weeks ago 653 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,179 for Evernote's listing on the 654 00:19:31,180 --> 00:19:32,299 NASDAC. 655 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:34,119 We were also in New York 656 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:35,699 a few weeks before that for the 657 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:36,759 Avalon Summit. So if you want to 658 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,519 catch up on any of the interviews or 659 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,539 any of content that we've been 660 00:19:39,540 --> 00:19:40,939 putting out, go and check out the 661 00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:41,819 Block's YouTube channel. 662 00:19:41,820 --> 00:19:43,139 You can find most of those videos 663 00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:45,059 there. Otherwise, just take 664 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:47,079 a leisurely scroll down 665 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,579 our X timeline and you can find some 666 00:19:48,580 --> 00:19:49,429 of our videos. 667 00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:51,609 The videos tab of our X account. 668 00:19:51,610 --> 00:19:52,429 If you don't already please 669 00:19:52,430 --> 00:19:54,029 subscribe to our YouTube channel and 670 00:19:54,030 --> 00:19:55,869 if you're watching us here on X this 671 00:19:55,870 --> 00:19:58,109 afternoon, please like and retweet 672 00:19:58,110 --> 00:20:00,309 this post so we can get more people 673 00:20:00,310 --> 00:20:02,009 catching up on that interview with 674 00:20:02,010 --> 00:20:03,269 Eli Ben Sasson. 675 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:04,729 That is it for the show today. 676 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:06,529 I will tease tomorrow's show very 677 00:20:06,530 --> 00:20:08,029 quickly. We have Anthony Scaramucci 678 00:20:08,030 --> 00:20:09,429 joining us on the show. 679 00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:10,989 He's just launched a new book. 680 00:20:10,990 --> 00:20:12,089 We're going to be chatting to him 681 00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:14,089 about that and a lot more related 682 00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:15,629 to crypto. So set a reminder on your 683 00:20:15,630 --> 00:20:16,689 clocks. We're broadcasting normal 684 00:20:16,690 --> 00:20:17,579 time tomorrow. 685 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:19,419 That's 2.30 p.m. 686 00:20:19,420 --> 00:20:20,539 Central European time if you're in 687 00:20:20,540 --> 00:20:22,379 Europe, or 9.30 688 00:20:22,380 --> 00:20:23,999 Eastern time if your in the United 689 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,079 States because the clocks have 690 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:25,959 changed. 691 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,139 So things are gonna be a bit weird 692 00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:28,759 for the next couple of weeks until 693 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,619 we get back to parity on 694 00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:32,379 timing. That's it for today's show, 695 00:20:32,380 --> 00:20:33,380 we'll catch you tomorrow.