النص الكامل لحلقة Authenticity and Vulnerability: Unconventional Insights into Leadership--with Jo Zulaica

know, always sort of ahead of the game. 00:05:02.733 --> 00:05:08.713 And so to think about authentic leadership, that's a really cool term. 00:05:09.134 --> 00:05:17.630 Yeah Well, we don't resonate with people who are impervious, with people who are perfectly perfect. 00:05:17.630 --> 00:05:22.971 They make us feel inadequate, and by trying to be that way, we're also inadequate. 00:05:22.971 --> 00:05:27.247 We end up feeling like we're constantly chasing the devil on our shoulder. 00:05:27.247 --> 00:05:38.649 That says not good enough, stand up straighter, be different, be better, be more, and it's just this mayhem that goes on of everyone trying to be some version of themselves. 00:05:38.649 --> 00:05:39.872 It's not really true. 00:05:39.872 --> 00:05:48.851 So in in my, you know, line of work, we were taking people into vulnerable experiences like riding a bike in China. 00:05:48.872 --> 00:05:59.860 And you know people would have all of these ideas about fitness, about body image, about prowess, like am I strong enough, am I good enough? 00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:18.014 And then we would be in these uncomfortable situations where we didn't speak the language or we didn't know where we were going, and so there's vulnerability everywhere, and the only way to lead people through that is just to be honest and say look like I've only been here once before, I can't even go into this territory without a guide. 00:06:18.014 --> 00:06:32.932 So I would even have to be honest about my inadequacy as like the supreme leader and just kind of pull back the curtain and say, but I'm here with you and I know what to do, and I got granola bars, we're gonna figure it out, and that's. 00:06:32.932 --> 00:06:44.886 That would engender a lot more of a spirit of participation than if I was really challenging people to do some death defying thing that I could do perfectly, but they needed to figure out. 00:06:44.946 --> 00:06:45.887 You know, that's just not. 00:06:45.887 --> 00:06:52.721 It's not a way to encourage loyalty or eager participation or fun. 00:06:52.721 --> 00:06:53.624 Really it's. 00:06:53.624 --> 00:06:55.427 It was supposed to be fun, right? 00:06:55.427 --> 00:06:58.595 We're on vacation, so yeah, that was that was a big part of it. 00:06:58.836 --> 00:06:59.778 I'll tell you what to Amy. 00:06:59.778 --> 00:07:05.834 I'd started to interrupt myself or you on this one, but when we talk about that. 00:07:05.834 --> 00:07:16.836 A big part of who we, how we lead, is not actually being the the person who is always having all the answers. 00:07:16.836 --> 00:07:22.869 That actually asking other people to participate makes the whole so much better. 00:07:22.869 --> 00:07:32.468 It makes people bring who they are to the table and that just levels up the entire experience or conversation for everyone. 00:07:32.468 --> 00:07:36.257 So even if you don't know what to do, you're not the only one. 00:07:37.865 --> 00:07:40.029 Wow, okay, I get that. 00:07:40.029 --> 00:07:41.572 That resonates with me. 00:07:41.572 --> 00:07:45.987 It really does, even though I've never done anything for authentic leadership. 00:07:45.987 --> 00:08:07.514 But I see that, starting from a place of vulnerability, even though you're not it's not verbal communication that probably does, yeah, do a lot to communicate simply the fact that you're there, you're like them, but you're going to guide everybody through it, yeah, so I'll tell you what. 00:08:07.595 --> 00:08:20.937 the people who burn out at that job, at that type of job, are the people who pretend harder, people who are really trying hard to appear like they know everything, because that certainly is a thing in tour leaderdom is that you want to know all the answers. 00:08:20.956 --> 00:08:27.115 There are people that want to learn all the flora and fauna, be able to have all the answers about the knowledge of the area they want to be. 00:08:27.115 --> 00:08:29.086 They never want to be caught off guard. 00:08:29.086 --> 00:08:31.048 That's the way that they. 00:08:31.048 --> 00:08:34.414 They feel safe in that role and with that title. 00:08:34.414 --> 00:08:44.202 But they burn out because they're exhausted at the end of a tour because they've been hustling so hard to appear perfectly perfect or smarter than smart. 00:08:47.269 --> 00:09:03.721 That's so interesting and I can see that too, just from a point of I worked as a professional actor for about 15 years, really, and yes so, and so much of the training, especially when you start, is designed to teach you to break down those barriers. 00:09:03.721 --> 00:09:05.784 So that you can show that same amount of vulnerability. 00:09:05.784 --> 00:09:08.548 That's really what puts people in. 00:09:08.548 --> 00:09:22.745 But the reason why there are so many theater games and techniques and rehearsals and technical rehearsals is to try to get that authenticity across. 00:09:23.145 --> 00:09:29.745 So it seems like you must have had a lot of those same instincts as you know a professional actor would have. 00:09:29.745 --> 00:09:31.341 Yeah, simply because you know it's the same thing. 00:09:31.341 --> 00:09:33.610 You're up on a stage. 00:09:33.610 --> 00:09:40.500 Yeah, you're up on a stage, everybody's watching, and you have to lead them where to go. 00:09:40.942 --> 00:09:41.784 You know what's cool about that, amy? 00:09:41.784 --> 00:09:43.467 It's like so there's two things. 00:09:43.467 --> 00:09:44.789 I don't want to sell out that. 00:09:44.789 --> 00:09:50.479 There's another term that I would use all the time when I was training new tour guides, which is follow me leadership. 00:09:50.479 --> 00:10:12.027 Like you do have to post up as somebody that other people will feel comfortable following, so you do actually have to master some sense of like I've got this, I know what to do, you can trust me, you can follow me, even if I don't know all the names of all the plants or I know exactly if it's a

left or a right at that intersection, like. 00:10:12.027 --> 00:10:22.784 So there's that duality, right Of being absolutely commanding and authoritative in your own skin, but also willing to say I'm not quite sure about this particular thing. 00:10:22.784 --> 00:10:35.591 So, like an actor on the stage, I think there are moments where that individual holds your attention, even when they themselves might not exactly know where they're going to go next. 00:10:35.913 --> 00:10:45.770 They have the confidence to be in that spot of discovery Right, and that's what makes it so interesting for an actor or for a career tour guide. 00:10:45.770 --> 00:10:57.784 Is that that sweet spot, not the like trying to look like you know I'm super duper and I want to get like the most sterling reviews and no one will ever say anything negative about anything about me. 00:10:57.784 --> 00:10:59.745 Like that's not a way to be relatable. 00:11:00.688 --> 00:11:03.611 Yeah, yeah, no, that's so true. 00:11:03.611 --> 00:11:15.556 So for people in the audience like me who have never heard the term authentic leadership before and maybe want to take steps towards that, what's the first thing that you would recommend? 00:11:15.777 --> 00:11:17.583 other than to sign up and take courses with you. 00:11:19.178 --> 00:11:19.623 No, no, no, no. 00:11:19.623 --> 00:11:26.166 It's to know at least a little bit about who you are Like. 00:11:26.166 --> 00:11:33.318 Here's what I know from having traveled the world and like sat with some of the most interesting people that we've never heard of. 00:11:33.318 --> 00:11:46.347 Like think about some weaver in a Vietnamese village that takes silk yarn and makes these amazing tapestries, and what makes her so fascinating. 00:11:46.347 --> 00:11:47.830 I don't share language with her. 00:11:47.830 --> 00:11:55.120 I have like zero in common with her other than probably we both have beating hearts, but I don't understand her life story. 00:11:55.120 --> 00:12:03.219 I don't eat her food, I don't live in her village, and like for her to imagine what I did to come and visit her would blow her mind right. 00:12:03.804 --> 00:12:34.346 What makes people fascinating, what makes people so compelling and their authenticity is knowing what they're good at, knowing what they care about, and so through an interpreter you could learn about, like why this woman does what she does, or why she's good at, or what she thinks about when she does it, and that's what's authentic, right, like she's not trying to be anything other than exactly what she is or what she cares about, or what she does so well, like her craft so well. 00:12:34.346 --> 00:12:43.004 I would be coaching people all the time when they were becoming tour leaders or just leaders in any industry is to just use who you are Like. 00:12:43.004 --> 00:12:53.299 If you're a brilliant linguist, if you're really good with terms of phrase and metaphor, then you should be speaking, you should be writing, you should be communicating with words. 00:12:53.299 --> 00:12:56.688 But if that's not your jam, don't try to be that. 00:12:56.688 --> 00:13:00.073 Don't try to look like you're like some orator. 00:13:00.575 --> 00:13:02.597 If that makes you extremely nervous. 00:13:02.597 --> 00:13:04.460 Go do what you're good at. 00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:07.634 Teach what you know, be in your zone of genius. 00:13:07.634 --> 00:13:16.038 So I think the very first thing is knowing what your brilliant skill set is, what you're really good at, what you love to do. 00:13:16.038 --> 00:13:19.270 That's your authenticity, that's your like. 00:13:19.270 --> 00:13:22.157 Putting your finger in the light socket, that's it right there. 00:13:22.157 --> 00:13:23.167 That's helpful. 00:13:23.167 --> 00:13:24.591 I don't know if that would be helpful? 00:13:24.804 --> 00:13:25.966 Yes, it's very helpful. 00:13:25.966 --> 00:13:30.815 No, the next question that I wanted to ask was what was that process like for you? 00:13:33.825 --> 00:13:36.346 Oh, good question, I think. 00:13:36.346 --> 00:13:47.239 Well, I'm a junkie for personal development, so I probably have done all the assessments you know to know who I am and what makes me tick and all that type of thing. 00:13:47.239 --> 00:14:03.389 I think in the course of that I just knew like I'm an extrovert, I'm a connector, I like being inspired and in inspiration, and when you know those things, it doesn't matter exactly what you choose to do. 00:14:03.389 --> 00:14:09.215 You can be a mom, you could be artist lover, you can be an adventurer. 00:14:09.215 --> 00:14:15.461 You just express those things in whatever arena you end up choosing. 00:14:15.461 --> 00:14:18.807 And so that's probably how I did. 00:14:18.826 --> 00:14:36.261 It is through self awareness, right, Like all those assessments, I just came to know what my operating system is, how I run my how I like to be, how I can only be, and letting that be how I am in any circumstance. 00:14:36.261 --> 00:14:47.239 You know, my parents always thought I was going to give up this true guide thing and be a, you know, a stand up human and go back to grad school and get a quote unquote real job, capital R, capital J, right. 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:48.220 Yes. 00:14:48.784 --> 00:15:09.947 But it didn't matter if I did that, that I could do that in my way or I could stay where I was and become the version of me that would be there, which was starting to create hiring and training and mentoring and managing models for that population and then expanding and exploding from what I'm good at in that realm. 00:15:09.947 --> 00:15:11.707 So the circumstance didn't matter. 00:15:11.707 --> 00:15:16.068 It was how I got to be and I just knew what turned me on. 00:15:16.991 --> 00:15:17.615 I think you're right. 00:15:17.615 --> 00:15:25.158 I know it was certainly my parents are listening, sorry, but they had the same desire. 00:15:25.158 --> 00:15:29.395 They want you

to be secure, they want you to be okay, they want you to have health insurance. 00:15:29.395 --> 00:15:38.660 And so a lot of times we had to have that discussion Like, is it worth it to take this low paying job? 00:15:38.660 --> 00:15:41.731 That's what you want to do In terms of? 00:15:41.731 --> 00:15:47.977 Couldn't you find something that you almost like to do that has health insurance? 00:15:47.977 --> 00:15:48.879 Yeah, right. 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:56.616 And I think you go through a lot of questioning and you ask yourself is that okay? 00:15:56.616 --> 00:15:57.995 Is what I'm doing okay? 00:15:57.995 --> 00:15:59.195 Because I love it so much. 00:15:59.870 --> 00:16:00.934 We're gonna take a quick break. 00:16:00.934 --> 00:16:16.738 We're with Joe Zuleika, who is a incredible once tour guide, now leadership coach and consultant, having trained over 5,000 people in our lifetime, and we're talking about communication and authentic leadership and how you can bring that to you. 00:16:16.738 --> 00:16:17.913 We'll be right back. 00:16:17.913 --> 00:16:31.551 Welcome back to the show Again. 00:16:31.551 --> 00:16:39.216 We're here with Joe Zuleika and Joe, I am just dying to know some of the nitty gritty details of when you were a tour guide. 00:16:39.216 --> 00:16:55.721 It must have been a crash course, a crash masterclass, I'll say, in communication and learning how to deal with groups of people who might not be feeling so happy at the moment. 00:16:56.029 --> 00:16:57.436 So tell me a little bit about that. 00:16:57.950 --> 00:17:00.538 Yeah, I think that you're right. 00:17:00.538 --> 00:17:19.656 I mean, travel can bring so many unexpected circumstances and many of them can be undesired, certainly, and when we're disappointed, we're not at our best, and so I've seen a lot of disappointed people in my lifetime, people that I've depended on for my livelihood as a tour guide. 00:17:19.656 --> 00:17:28.478 It's definitely like a gratuity-based culture, so you really do wanna please people, you want them to be happy, give you a good review and hopefully give you a nice gratuity. 00:17:28.478 --> 00:17:35.298 So I've danced that dance between when people are disappointed and how you handle them. 00:17:35.298 --> 00:17:36.654 How do you master that? 00:17:36.654 --> 00:17:51.816 How do you help resolve conflict, especially when you can't control the weather, or that dinner's gonna be an hour and a half late or that there's not enough elephants to ride in Thailand, when you're on your elephant riding excursion, right, oh my God, shhh. 00:17:52.609 --> 00:17:54.376 I could say, that being a big disappointment. 00:17:54.376 --> 00:17:55.333 It was like I'm here. 00:17:55.333 --> 00:17:56.234 Why isn't the elephant? 00:17:56.295 --> 00:17:57.298 here Shhh. 00:17:57.337 --> 00:17:57.598 Hahaha. 00:17:59.970 --> 00:18:17.778 Well, you know, what you end up doing is you sacrifice, because my husband, I ended up marrying my co-tour guide which is a whole other podcast and I ended up hiking behind 14 elephants that day, and that was not very pretty, but because we had to give up our elephant, because we had to discount it. 00:18:17.778 --> 00:18:21.954 So, you know, sometimes you just get generous to help solve the problem. 00:18:21.954 --> 00:18:28.538 But I do actually have some tips that I've learned that maybe are humorous but actually might serve. 00:18:28.538 --> 00:18:38.157 People are better, they're easier to talk to when they're well fed and when they're well slept and when they're caffeinated. 00:18:39.089 --> 00:18:47.675 So, I kind of developed this rule that I often avoided making people talk to me when I knew they weren't at their best. 00:18:47.675 --> 00:19:02.400 So this looks like me surfing around the breakfast room 35 minutes after they've been seated and got their cup of coffee and have some food on their plate, not before that, when they're agitated and irritable. 00:19:03.309 --> 00:19:08.839 Because, there are times you don't want to insert yourself in a process where you can't control the outcome. 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:13.876 So I can't control how fast the coffee's gonna come, but I can control when I come and say good morning. 00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:18.057 And so I come and say good morning after they have their cup of coffee. 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:21.417 I also don't talk to people between three and five PM. 00:19:21.417 --> 00:19:27.974 This is not a rule in my real life now, but when they were getting off a bicycle or off a hike, that's not the golden hour. 00:19:28.289 --> 00:19:30.176 That's not the time that you wanna relate with people. 00:19:30.176 --> 00:19:34.875 They're hot, they're tired, they're sweaty, they haven't checked into their hotel room. 00:19:34.875 --> 00:19:36.596 You just kind of let them be. 00:19:36.596 --> 00:19:48.237 So there's some simple tactics of just recognizing sort of the ebb and flow of when humans are at their best and meeting them in those moments. 00:19:48.237 --> 00:19:55.635 But there's also ways that how can you help people get up to that baseline. 00:19:55.635 --> 00:19:57.615 So I mean, some of the simple things are. 00:19:57.615 --> 00:20:04.597 An easy trick for a tour guide is always to have something cold and sweet in your backpack. 00:20:04.597 --> 00:20:10.777 You're always popular when you have frozen strawberries at the summit of a mountain. 00:20:10.777 --> 00:20:13.598 You're always popular when you've got ice water. 00:20:13.598 --> 00:20:22.719 You're always popular when you're throwing out frozen otter pops from the roof of a 15 passenger van and 100 degree weather, right, wow. 00:20:23.009 --> 00:20:24.075 So make people happy with. 00:20:24.075 --> 00:20:27.638 Sometimes it's just we're animals, we need things right. 00:20:27.638 --> 00:20:32.196 But here's the other thing those are sort of facetious, but true. 00:20:32.196 --> 00:20:41.181 There are other things that I believe with my whole heart,

that I teach until I can't stop talking about. 00:20:41.181 --> 00:20:52.358 It is how you actually can help deescalate some conflict that someone's feeling through a really, really simple tactic, and it is by using acknowledgement. 00:20:52.358 --> 00:21:02.386 It's by verbally acknowledging the frustration or feeling that another person is expressing to you. 00:21:02.707 --> 00:21:23.134 And this is the thing that I feel is so often glossed over in many conflict resolution models or trainings, where we think that we're understanding that, but if you're not actually verbally saying to someone I acknowledge that this is not up to standard. 00:21:23.134 --> 00:21:25.118 I acknowledge that this is disappointing. 00:21:25.118 --> 00:21:28.273 I understand that this isn't what you expected. 00:21:28.273 --> 00:21:54.346 I get it that you're frustrated when we say that we de-escalate the rising ire in anyone because they know that we've received what they're trying to express to us, and when you don't do that, they just feel like they have to continue to object or express or rise up and fight for their frustration. 00:21:54.346 --> 00:22:00.810 So it's kind of a long-winded way of me saying that that I learned how to acknowledge people. 00:22:03.067 --> 00:22:04.230 Was it frightening at first. 00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:17.324 Yeah, I think at first I'm like a born people pleaser, socialized as a woman in modern society, so I always want everybody to smile and so when people are not happy, they make me nervous. 00:22:17.324 --> 00:22:19.684 I'm nervous around intimidating people. 00:22:20.046 --> 00:22:32.912 Yeah, there are times where I would you know that avoidance that I talked about first, of like not wanting to talk to people when they're not in a good mood that could definitely play out when there's conflict that needs to be addressed. 00:22:32.912 --> 00:22:41.426 But what I found was, if you're brave enough to name it, that individual will often feel like they don't. 00:22:41.426 --> 00:22:47.411 They could just let their shoulders drop a little bit and feel like, okay, and that. 00:22:47.411 --> 00:23:05.520 So it's something I kind of even as a reformed people pleaser, I sometimes have to really bolster my courage to do, to step into something and name something that is is on everybody's mind but is unsaid and it's intimidating. 00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:09.521 But I know that it's effective and I know that it brings great results. 00:23:09.521 --> 00:23:19.040 It brings honor upon yourself if you're willing to be brave and name something like that and not just be like oh well, you know, I'm sure it'll all be okay and let's just smile and be happy. 00:23:21.701 --> 00:23:22.825 That doesn't win followers. 00:23:22.825 --> 00:23:25.138 That doesn't make people feel like they can really trust you. 00:23:25.138 --> 00:23:27.801 It's not authentic. 00:23:28.894 --> 00:24:00.281 Yeah, I really like what you said be brave enough to name it, and I think

a lot of times and there's certainly been a lot of times in my life where I'm just like I'm not going to name it and perhaps if I ignore it it will go away and then I won't have had to do it I certainly can avoid things like a champ, and I think a lot of people can, but I can see being on a mountain with no bathrooms makes you really have to name it. 00:24:00.281 --> 00:24:02.402 Yeah, I would imagine. 00:24:02.996 --> 00:24:06.318 Yeah, you know what happens is it'll come back to haunt you If you don't. 00:24:06.318 --> 00:24:19.233 I sometimes say that problem solving or resolving conflict or deescalating the annoyance that might be present is sort of like being in one of those shooting ranges with clay pigeons. 00:24:19.233 --> 00:24:25.847 It's like things get boom and what you want to do is you want to hit that thing and blow it up. 00:24:25.847 --> 00:24:37.585 If a clay pigeon of a problem is lofted into the air, you need to smash it, not pretend like it didn't happen because, then it is still whole. 00:24:38.336 --> 00:24:54.214 Our job is to fully address something, to name it, to explain that we understand things didn't go the way that they wanted, that we wanted to pledge to do better or to give a reframe for how best to think about something. 00:24:54.214 --> 00:25:05.084 If somebody's under the mistaken assumption that it should be perfect and it can't be, we have to address it completely, to like really blow it up. 00:25:05.084 --> 00:25:11.763 Otherwise it's just still sitting there, it's not processed or metabolized. 00:25:11.763 --> 00:25:13.882 We just avoid. 00:25:13.882 --> 00:25:17.364 And so, yeah, I know you get it. 00:25:18.136 --> 00:25:36.905 Yeah, I think the theme that keeps coming back to me is bravery, in that it takes bravery to start to be your authentic self, which starts with vulnerability and then being brave enough brave enough to name it and brave enough to deal with it head on. 00:25:36.905 --> 00:25:52.785 And I think I know you're right because you have 5,000 people that say so, and but you're resonating with me as well, because there have been times I've worked in sales and I've done a lot of stuff. 00:25:52.785 --> 00:26:07.701 And, yeah, when a person comes in angry because their phone has melted, even if they melted it, you have to sort of stand up and acknowledge it and be ready to go in head on. 00:26:08.183 --> 00:26:08.484 Yeah. 00:26:11.095 --> 00:26:11.898 That's fascinating. 00:26:12.615 --> 00:26:29.644 Yeah, I was gonna say people wanna feel seen and when you do acknowledge what they bring to you, it helps them feel really seen and understood, which is absolutely key. 00:26:29.644 --> 00:26:43.339 If you're a medical professional or a customer service person, you want that person to feel like you get them and that you want them to win and that you're on their side, so I do. 00:26:43.339 --> 00:26:45.826 I think that's a really important quality. 00:26:46.075 --> 00:26:48.298 Yeah yeah, well that I mean. 00:26:48.298 --> 00:26:49.843 We're social creatures. 00:26:49.843 --> 00:26:54.386 We want to belong and feel part of a collective. 00:26:54.386 --> 00:26:55.015 We're not. 00:26:55.015 --> 00:27:01.362 There are very few of us that can survive truly isolated from society. 00:27:01.362 --> 00:27:16.817 And so you're just naming those qualities that, when they're present, the health of the individual blooms because their needs are being met in a way that's just human. 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:21.230 So, just to finish up today, do you have a fun travel anecdote that you'd like to share with us? 00:27:22.461 --> 00:27:23.804 Ooh, that's a good one. 00:27:23.804 --> 00:27:29.020 I mean, there's so many, sure, I don't know. 00:27:29.020 --> 00:27:53.512 I think there was a time where I was traveling so much this may be a personal story that there this crazy thing would would happen to me and to my husband, both like we could be anywhere in the world just traveling on our own in between trips or what have you, and people would ask us questions like where's the bathroom, or do you know where the trailhead is, or what time does that restaurant open? 00:27:53.512 --> 00:27:57.863 And we would look at each other like we don't. 00:27:57.863 --> 00:28:02.211 What do we have this tour guide or like ask me, printed on my forehead. 00:28:04.141 --> 00:28:17.976 And what it was so funny is, I think, that we had gotten into such a vibe of just always moving with a sense of we can figure it out, that other people would almost smell it on us like odor, like it was just emanating from our pores. 00:28:17.976 --> 00:28:22.247 We know what to do and we never knew what we were doing. 00:28:22.247 --> 00:28:26.394 We were just fumbling through, you know, malaysia with a backpack. 00:28:26.394 --> 00:28:30.200 But I think this is different than fake it till you make it. 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:40.123 It's it's trust that you have what you need to figure it out, and that trust is magnetic. 00:28:40.123 --> 00:28:47.970 It wasn't something I was trying to do, but I had it right and people around me that were strangers would feel it. 00:28:47.970 --> 00:28:57.096 So that might be just a fun kind of global anecdote that sometimes, even now, I look at my husband, I'm like, oh, I have to follow me on my forehead again. 00:28:57.096 --> 00:29:01.608 Somebody just asked me a question I have no idea the answer to. 00:29:01.608 --> 00:29:03.432 I must have the follow me sign lit up. 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:05.080 So no, I believe it. 00:29:05.080 --> 00:29:12.932 If we have any tour guides listening, I think they're going yes right now, because that's probably happened to them to. 00:29:12.932 --> 00:29:13.994 That's fantastic. 00:29:13.994 --> 00:29:22.007 So so, just to recap what you said for our audience so be brave enough to name it. 00:29:22.007 --> 00:29:23.848 I really like that. 00:29:23.848 --> 00:29:37.526 And then you just had trust that you have what you need to figure it out, which I think is really important, because a lot of times we don't and you can get caught up in panic when you don't because you think, oh, I don't know this. 00:29:38.827 --> 00:29:43.354 And and also work towards your authentic self. 00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:45.602 I love that yeah. 00:29:45.761 --> 00:29:46.782 Yeah, that's. 00:29:46.782 --> 00:29:48.365 That's really nice. 00:29:48.365 --> 00:29:55.595 So, before we go, tell us a little bit about what you do and where people can get in touch with you if they'd like. 00:29:56.299 --> 00:29:57.080 Thanks, amy. 00:29:57.080 --> 00:30:01.865 So yeah, so now I am in business for myself as a leadership coach and consultant. 00:30:01.865 --> 00:30:23.710 I am found on all the interwebs via my handle Joe leader, so on YouTube I'm at Joe leader one women who lead with heart is my Facebook group, which is also goes by Joe leader on Facebook, and my website is wwwjoe leader calm, and my website is probably the best place to go to see all the ways that you can work with me. 00:30:23.710 --> 00:30:33.042 I have dozens of free trainings and downloads that I like to offer and there's some very low cost options to get some spot coaching from me. 00:30:33.042 --> 00:30:48.455 And then I have programs as well that help especially women in leadership find their brave, authentic voice, stop self doubt and spinning out in second guessing and finding their complete confidence. 00:30:48.455 --> 00:30:54.049 My programs called the completely confident leader and you can find all about it at wwwjoe leader calm. 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:57.722 Wonderful, that's wonderful. 00:30:57.722 --> 00:31:02.590 Thank you so much, joe, for being here today, really appreciate you giving us your time. 00:31:02.590 --> 00:31:03.491 Yep, love it. 00:31:03.491 --> 00:31:08.722 Thank you again for joining us on the savvy communicator today. 00:31:08.722 --> 00:31:11.025 If you've got questions, we want to hear them. 00:31:11.025 --> 00:31:13.988 Go to wwwsavvy communicator. 00:31:13.988 --> 00:31:18.373 Calm and join our forum and let us know what you're thinking. 00:31:18.373 --> 00:31:21.695 Join us on Facebook and Instagram for the very latest that we've got to offer. 00:31:21.695 --> 00:31:23.164 Thanks so much for being here. 00:31:23.164 --> 00:31:24.150 Until next time.