النص الكامل لحلقة Systems Thinking: Using Leverage Points to Fix Bottlenecks with Will Stewart

--> 00:04:07.879 if you don't follow it, then you sort of are 70 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:11.599 going to get garbage. A system is not linear at all. 71 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:14.800 It's quite dynamic. It can be two things can be 72 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.079 happening at once, five things can be happening, and once 73 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:21.000 multiple interfaces can be happening, and so it seems like 74 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.920 it's more chaotic, but the process generally fits within the system. 75 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:29.279 I hear a lot of times we have systems for 76 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:33.240 something and then I talk with founders, and generally it's 77 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:37.279 they have a process for it or step by step directions, 78 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:41.600 but it's not the actual system. And so when they're 79 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.439 having a problem with their system, it's the only with 80 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:47.000 their process. But then we look at the other components 81 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.199 that are happening around it, it's generally one of those 82 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:50.000 other components. 83 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:51.319 This makes a lot of sense to me. 84 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:53.959 It's like what you're saying is a process has like 85 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.079 a step by step and then a system. 86 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.839 There's so many other different components. 87 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.000 Yes, it's so if you're making a cake, right, there's 88 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:05.639 gonna be There is a process to making a cake, 89 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.519 and you can mix the wet and dry ingredients at 90 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:12.920 different places. It doesn't really matter, but at a point 91 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.480 it all has to flow in a certain way. Well, like, 92 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.800 the system of creating a cake is very different because 93 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.040 then it's the interactions of the person who's making it, 94 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:29.360 to the stove, the kitchen, the area, the tech, whether 95 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:33.279 it's day or is it night, do you have power outside, 96 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:35.600 do you have kids running around? Like so there's a 97 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.040 lot more components that can happen than in that sort 98 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.959 of cake making system or of your culinary prep system, 99 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:44.680 than just the process. 100 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:46.160 That's such a good example. 101 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.639 So okay, if we applied that kind of same logic 102 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:53.199 then to a business. What are some of the different 103 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:56.879 components or factors that you typically talk with people about 104 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:58.279 when it comes to systems. 105 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.680 A lot of SaaS founders who have who are like 106 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:07.199 on LinkedIn and so generally you're looking at it and 107 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:12.199 trying to pinpoint something that's not going right. So they're saying, like, well, 108 00:06:12.839 --> 00:06:17.079 not making revenue this month. Okay, the fact that you're 109 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:21.199 not making revenue, your system is doing exactly what it 110 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:25.120 should be doing. It's not mixing up, it's there's something 111 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.399 in there that's creating this output. So if you're saying 112 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:32.680 it's not enough, let's go in and investigate what's happening 113 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.319 in your system so we can change that output. So 114 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:40.519 for instance, maybe they're not they have great content, but 115 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.800 their sales part is not great, like they're not converting 116 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.519 those clients. Maybe it's a software and it's like, well 117 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:51.120 we have a great software. Well okay, but the reason 118 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:53.240 why you're not making enough money is it is probably 119 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:56.639 your conversion or like other places, the CHURND is very 120 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:59.279 high with the software. So it's exciting because you get 121 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:02.079 to be like a detective. And that's how I see 122 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:04.680 it because it's generally not just one thing. Sometimes it 123 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:07.279 can be, but there's multiple things, and you're saying, how 124 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:11.519 can I reorganize your system to give to you the 125 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:12.560 output that you want? 126 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:15.199 Now, this is a really good explanation because for me 127 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:19.079 as a data analyst, oftentimes it's not just isolated to 128 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:20.040 one thing. 129 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:23.560 Bluely and so there's there are a few like champions 130 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:25.480 of systems thinking, and one of them is done at 131 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:29.600 Tello Meadows and one of her big points in principles 132 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:32.199 is leverage points. So, like you said, there could be 133 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.160 multiple issues going in on one system, but those are 134 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:39.000 going to have grades of severity. So we want to 135 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:44.000 look at, obviously, what gives us the most leverage to 136 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.000 fix the system. Is it a boss who doesn't respond 137 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.480 to emails? Is it the lack of the tech that 138 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.120 they're using. Is the tech super old? So there could 139 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.240 be five things that are happening at once, but what 140 00:07:56.519 -->

00:07:59.560 is for systems thinking, We're like, what gives us the 141 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.839 biggest bang for our buck that we can leverage that 142 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.360 one with the minimal sort of minimal effort that makes 143 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.079 the maximum output. Now, sometimes it's not that easy. Sometimes 144 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:14.560 there's a lot of heavy lifting. Right, It just depends 145 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:17.519 on what. But we're always looking for like leverage points. 146 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.560 Let's us do data analytics, right, Okay, Well give me 147 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:24.439 some context. And so as a data analyst, I'm like, well, 148 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.240 what is it about? Well, just run these numbers. Yeah, 149 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:30.560 it's gonna help me a lot more if you tell 150 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:32.799 me what this is about, so I can use my 151 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:37.720 experience to help filter it, because just raw data is 152 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.080 even if you're filtering it through a system, it's still 153 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:44.039 too much and so really saying what am I looking 154 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:46.679 at context? And how can I leverage it the best? 155 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:49.519 That's when for systems thinking, I think it's one of 156 00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:52.639 the strong points is we're looking at that leverage. 157 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:54.879 Right, how do you actually get to the point of 158 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:56.200 identifying the leverage. 159 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:00.440 Let's use that example of that director some who's not 160 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:03.799 responding to emails. I think it's easy sometimes for us 161 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.200 to like look at tech and these things and processes 162 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:09.759 and operations. At the end of the day, generally you're 163 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:15.759 interacting with the human being. So always thinking what's happening 164 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.120 with that human being? Why are they so grumpy? What's 165 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.840 going on? Like nothing ever happens in the vacuum, And 166 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:25.039 then it's like, Okay, he's not been he or she 167 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:27.840 have not been answering their emails the last few weeks. 168 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:35.320 Anything going on, right, something we suspect something is happening, 169 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:37.879 maybe at home, or we know something's happening home. He's 170 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:39.919 got a sick kid, the wife is sick, the mother 171 00:09:40.039 --> 00:09:43.559 is the parent is sick. Something's happening. Okay, So it's 172 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.879 not a personality thing. It's a bandwidth thing. So it's 173 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:52.600 not so that changes how we approach that particular person 174 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.039 because it's not the email system. The email system is 175 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.919 working perfectly because it works to everyone else. Maybe it's 176 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.080 a phone issue. I don't no, but we're thinking, like 177 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.759 we're trying to what's the leverage point that we need 178 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:07.360 to do, so how do we work with this person 179 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.480 to leverage that? And some if it's the founder, it's like, hey, 180 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.679 we haven't been responding, you need to do that, or 181 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.879 I remember I was at one particular organization, it's like, 182 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.440 can we create something simple like a decision tree, decision 183 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.840 matrix so you're not answering every single thing and you 184 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.440 and they're not waiting for you. If it's this threshold, 185 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.360 say a financial threshold of five thousand dollars, I feel 186 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.879 comfortable with that because your staff can make that decision 187 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:39.600 on their own. Yes, if it's sent five thousand and 188 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:42.320 over or whatever, five thousand and one dollars over, the 189 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:44.919 needs to come to me. So what we found was 190 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.399 that like that person didn't have the bandwidth to deal 191 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.519 with the five thousand dollars less issue, but they certainly 192 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:51.159 have one to deal with the twenty dollars dollars. They 193 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:53.360 would get back to them like that. So it's sort 194 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.159 of looking at like how and so the decision matrix, 195 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:00.440 like we had to but it's such a leverage point 196 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:02.759 that they were able to hold onto and then of 197 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:07.000 course everything else flowed. Fine. You know, I'm not a therapist. 198 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:08.679 I've been like you don't even to see somebody about that. 199 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.720 But we can definitely get matrix a decision matrix for 200 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:17.759 your company where your subordinates or your employees are making decisions, 201 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.960 and you're okay with that. It's like answering questions and 202 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.759 being detective. But also remember that there are humans behind. 203 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:30.840 These leverage points too, right, I think that's such an 204 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:32.600 important distinction to make. 205 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:36.759 So to get technical, like we always have to change 206 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:41.200 our our language. But what in sort of system think 207 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:45.159 is like the interaction between nodes, right,

like data nodes, 208 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:46.759 and so you don't want to call someone a know, 209 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:48.879 like you don't want to sell like those nodes. But 210 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:52.039 they're people, right, they're people. But the reality is that 211 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.159 it is interactions between nodes, and no can be a person, 212 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.080 place or thing, and no can be like a person 213 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.159 like the director to their assistant, the assistant to the 214 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:05.159 VP of operations, the data analysis, the analysis to their computer. Right, 215 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.960 my interaction with my computer is something's wrong with it? 216 00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:09.840 And I remember I had this issue that guy was 217 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.759 running huge data sets and anyone who runs huge data 218 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.159 sets knows that they can't run on eight megabytes RAM 219 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:18.039 like you need like thirty two's you need something powerful 220 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.360 otherwise you're going to be sitting there wives processing. So 221 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.120 I was having an interaction issue with the node, which 222 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:28.679 was the computer. So it's like, how are those two 223 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.399 three four nodes interacting? And that's what systems thinking is 224 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:37.440 saying what is the interaction with that, you know, between 225 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.519 that node, And sometimes you're like, well, is it communication, 226 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.000 is it whatever? But you do have to look at 227 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:50.000 that node and then understanding that, like people are complex creatures, 228 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:53.919 that there's more to it. So but it does give 229 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.120 you the human aspect. Like you said, it's easy to 230 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:00.759 forget with systems thinking that it's it's but yes, it 231 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.879 is very much a powerful tool to say, all right, 232 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:05.639 well let me just step back and see. Like I 233 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:08.919 remember when I was becoming a new dad, I was 234 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.519 not like I was nine months ago, a week ago, like, 235 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:17.759 it was very different. And then all the parental neurochemicals 236 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.279 and things are floating around my brain and you get 237 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.919 parent brain, dead brain mom brain and a real thing. 238 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.840 But you're like, am I stupid? You're like, no, it's 239 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:29.759 just my physiology is interacting differently with everything. Like I 240 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.159 remember I couldn't remember like a phone number. I'm like, 241 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.440 why can't I remember this? But it was just the 242 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:38.120 way what So I think it's definitely a good way, 243 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:41.440 but it's easy to forget, super easy to forget about 244 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.399 that human aspect. 245 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:46.960 Yeah, that sounds like such a healthy approach to life 246 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:50.600 in general, whether it's personal or professional. So here's my 247 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:55.159 next question. Then, when we're thinking about who is responsible 248 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:59.879 then for maintaining a system ensuring that it's running smoothly, 249 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.320 like is it more of a top down approach like 250 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:05.399 a CEO or a leader of sorts would be the 251 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:07.759 person that needs to be implementing these things, or is 252 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.399 it like everyone has. 253 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:10.120 A role to play. 254 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:17.159 And I do think everyone, every node, And we can 255 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:21.000 just maybe say it's a person has some responsibility to 256 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:26.360 the system in that whether they're giving feedback about it, 257 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:32.360 whether they're organizing it, whether they're just doing their regular thing. Everyone, 258 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.720 Because the nature of systems, you can't just say I 259 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.480 don't I can't deal that but you're part of it. 260 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:42.159 Is is it your responsibility you deal this part of 261 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:47.200 the system. No, but you can't just be like a silo. 262 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:51.679 It just doesn't work like that. So in the context 263 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.279 of a business in the finances, let's say it's a 264 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:58.840 medium sized business, the CFO and the CEO, right, but 265 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.120 the CFO is not going to be looking at day 266 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:03.720 to day, day to day finances. He's gonna rely on 267 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:06.679 a CFO to say, what's going on. These are what's 268 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.279 happening with this system. Now, this is the data that 269 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.279 we're pulling. My amazing analyst, Seth, set down for twenty 270 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:16.200 hours and she pulled all the numbers in this regard. 271 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:19.440 It's not Set's job to make sure that the business 272 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:21.399 is doing well, but she was You're like, okay, well, 273 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.279 I'm going to analyze this data and use my experience 274 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.720 to give you the great report. So then you can 275 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.799 then take that system and take that information to make 276 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.639 decisions based on you know,

the CFOs to take this 277 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:36.519 up to the CEO. Well, Seth, well, if you tell 278 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:40.720 them about this, yes, it's important to you and I, 279 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:42.919 but to him and I or to her and I, 280 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.399 not really important. They don't really care about this part. 281 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:49.840 They don't care about, I don't know, paper clips expenses, 282 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.480 that's right, you know, they want to know about, you know, 283 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:55.759 what their our investments are doing. And so you had 284 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:58.639 to park to play in that responsibility. I think if 285 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.519 we see something wrong, a major part of any systems 286 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.240 are feedback. Loose, whether it's clothes or open, but there 287 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:10.519 has to be some feedback. You're like, hey, I'm I'm 288 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:15.240 analyzing this data and I'm seeing some weird things here. 289 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:18.080 You could be like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna 290 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.840 say anything. Well, they're like, seth, why didn't you say 291 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:25.159 anything about there's clearly issues here, Like you didn't say anything, Well, 292 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.960 you didn't ask me to. But so systems break down 293 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:33.360 when there's lack of feedback or the better feedback, better quality, 294 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:38.200 the better the system generally does. So there's a responsibility there. 295 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.399 Hopefully it was understood, like not just inherently, but like 296 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.720 your commitment to this company and your responsibility is this 297 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.679 will make sure that you're catching weird things in the data. Okay, great, 298 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.120 And then sometimes people say, oh, yeah, I know you've 299 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.480 done this. You've seen something that maybe wasn't in your 300 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:03.360 job description, which you're like, as a data analyst, as 301 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.839 a human, this isn't right. I need to go. You 302 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.240 need to know this. And then they're like, oh wow, 303 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.400 we didn't know that, and that data point is especially 304 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:13.799 thank you for bringing to us. You saved our company 305 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:15.240 a million bucks. 306 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:21.000 So there was something that you said a minute ago. 307 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.920 It reminded me of organizational culture and how yes, like 308 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.400 leadership and management could influence the culture of a company, 309 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.519 but how also employees are participants in that atmosphere. And 310 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.599 it made me think about that quote or phrase where 311 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:40.200 they said, if you like, not responding is also a response. 312 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.799 Like anything else. Those feedback loops have to be healthy, 313 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.759 and when it's silent and it's not supposed to be silent, 314 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:50.880 then that's when you really start to escalate. And again, 315 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:54.000 not everything has to be said, I think, or communicated. 316 00:17:54.160 --> 00:18:00.000 And I think that's knowing what the real necessary data 317 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.960 is because you you know and data analysis, you know 318 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:07.000 that some data is just noise. It's just noise there 319 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.000 and I don't really need this in any regard. I 320 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.920 don't even know why we collect this data, but it's there. 321 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:17.880 So when when you're talking about feedback loops, I think 322 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.480 of like one on ones with my manager or does 323 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.279 that also fit into systems thinking? 324 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:28.880 Absolutely any like the the feedback loops with your like 325 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.519 when we I think maybe we both worked corporate and 326 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.440 you walk out of a meeting and you're like, what 327 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.599 was that? What was he talking about? What was she 328 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.079 talking about? Like why were we talking about? Like that's okay, 329 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:43.440 and so it's like that feedback between the two of 330 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:47.279 you are like that it's confusion, right, I am. We 331 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:51.400 are confused as to why this went down. So do 332 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.799 we go back and tell that to our manager, like 333 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.240 we don't really understand that or is it like just 334 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:00.799 sort of that understood part of the cold of the 335 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:05.039 company where we don't question it and we just they 336 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:06.880 said anything to us and we just have to do 337 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.240 it well. That shapes the company culture. And so I 338 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.839 think another super important art of systems, and I have 339 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.480 a framework for it, is like the environment, systems have 340 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:23.000 boundaries to them. Every system has a boundary where it 341 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.480 just doesn't go there anymore. Like for instance, the human 342 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.720 body has a boundary. It's the skin, right, That's how 343 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.160 we exist in the world. And so we have things 344 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.200 that are happening internally,

but there are external forces that 345 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.880 also still affect our system. So there's feedback coming in 346 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.440 from outside of the system too. So I was talking 347 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:48.880 with someone who was dealing with retail, and this was 348 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:51.559 months ago when there was the tariffs that were happening 349 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:57.720 with the United States. So with tariffs, obviously it's not 350 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:02.240 an internal issue with the businesiness. It's an external feedback 351 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.160 that's happening. It's like you have to take this into 352 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:08.519 the account, so that affects that is feedback in a way, like, hey, 353 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:12.279 in a month, that terrifs are going to be fifty 354 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.720 percent higher. So what do we do in the meantime? 355 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:17.759 What can we what can we start to do? And 356 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.359 then when it hits, then it hits and we have 357 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:22.279 to adjust our prices. How do we communicate to our 358 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:25.440 our our our our clients and our customers what's happening. 359 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.720 And so just understanding that that feedback can come internally 360 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:32.559 from that internal that system itself, work can come from 361 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.400 the external systems or the external forces. People like farmers 362 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.240 have to understand, like the feedback of weather patterns, it's 363 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.839 gonna be hot, it's gonna be oh, it's gonna be this. 364 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:47.039 And I like systems because you only miss as much 365 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.079 as you don't know, right, But if you're looking at 366 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:53.400 certain things with the external forces. But if you forget that, 367 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:55.839 if you're in a business that has I don't know 368 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.799 tech right now, AI is big, Well, what are what 369 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.799 are some of the things that are happening externally that 370 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:04.839 affect our internal company if you don't take the consideration. 371 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:06.160 So all though some of the business things that we 372 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.359 talked about, like if you're not taking those into consideration, 373 00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:11.640 you're going to run into issues later like what's the 374 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.880 market telling you? The market's giving you feedback, like not clients, 375 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:20.079 but the whole market. And if just to indulge me, 376 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.640 like I just wrote a series of posts on LinkedIn 377 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.839 about big company, but one was like Netflix and Blockbuster. 378 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.759 Now that's an old tool one like Blockbuster's old school, right, 379 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:31.839 And it was like the back in like the nineties 380 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:33.799 where you would go with your parents or yourself and 381 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:36.079 you would go and buy you get the videos DVD 382 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.720 or vts whatever, and it was a whole process to it. 383 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:41.519 You have to leave your house, you got to if 384 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:44.279 you were late fees, you had to pay late fees. 385 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.240 You could get there and it was the video that 386 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:48.519 you called about twenty minutes ago is no longer there, 387 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:50.680 and you're like, oh, it's a lot of friction. Well, 388 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:55.359 Netflix listened to the market and they came up with 389 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.039 mail order DVDs and it was like a whole thing, 390 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:00.839 and it took off, and now Netflix is what it 391 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.079 is now. But it's listening to what the market was 392 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.119 saying and the feedback that allowed that allowed Netflix to 393 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.119 pivot and Blockbuster didn't they try it too lately. It's 394 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.079 just this wasn't happening, so that that sort of gets 395 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:15.680 our closes our feedback. 396 00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:20.279 That's such a good example just thinking about what's happening 397 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:23.839 around you in the marketplace, what's happening in the economy, 398 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:26.680 like looking at all of these different external factors and. 399 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.279 Then making your move from there. 400 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:30.640 This has been thinking a lot about like the type 401 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.119 of people that you work with with your business. What 402 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:36.319 is some of the biggest challenges or like patterns that 403 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:37.960 you're finding when you work with people. 404 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:43.160 So like you, you and I both own our businesses, 405 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:49.000 and so in general, I would say most entrepreneurs are smart. 406 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:51.720 They're like smart people like you have to be a 407 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:54.640 particular kind of person. And I'm not talking about like 408 00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:57.400 academically smart, but you have to be like on your game. 409 00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.759 It has to be a certain fire that you have 410 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:02.680 to say I'm going to go out and start a business, 411 00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:05.079 and from not you know like, okay, great, that's intent. 412 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.599 It's a lot, and you know, we all have our 413 00:23:09.759

--> 00:23:13.839 strengths to weaknesses. What I see a lot is really 414 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:18.000 smart people starting their business and having to do like 415 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:25.079 everything marketing, sales, product development, operations. They're writing the emails, 416 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:28.039 they taking the phone calls, and and what I think 417 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.759 happens is you more likely have to do that initially 418 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.359 unless you're you have a partner who's their operations and 419 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:39.039 you're the software developer, right, But even then there's other 420 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:41.079 parts of that. And so I think some of the 421 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:44.720 issues that I see is founders have created a system 422 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:49.240 where they organize a system, right, because the traditional thought 423 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.960 is like we don't create systems, we just organize them. 424 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.079 There's levels of or disorganization. They just sort of come 425 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.279 together and they self organize, and then we can sort 426 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.160 of manipulate some of those components. So if you come 427 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.400 to a business and you're saying, Okay, tell me what's 428 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.279 going on, there's a system happening. What I have found 429 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:13.720 the hardest is to be like, you created this system, 430 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:17.920 we have to reorganize it, and I didn't do that. 431 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:20.920 Yet you did do it. You didn't know that you 432 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.359 did it. It's not your fault, Like you're just doing 433 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.599 what you knew how to do, how to organize this 434 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.160 system the way you're that you knew, and there are 435 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:31.839 different ways to do it. So like, for instance, like 436 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:35.559 people hate changing their emails, I get it. It's a 437 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:40.920 pain the butt. Yes, that email system is limiting to you, 438 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.079 Like you're trying to do X amount of campaigns every 439 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:47.279 month and it's costing you ten times as much if 440 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:50.319 you go to a different system because you've outgrown it, 441 00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:54.200 you've outgrown that one. No, in your system, you've outgrown it, 442 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.119 so you kind of have to replace it. But then 443 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.240 it's the kind of convincing them that, all right, we 444 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.200 can continue to use this email system. It's going to 445 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.759 cost you thirteen thousand dollars a month, and if you're 446 00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:10.759 okay with that, I'm okay with it. Certainly

I wouldn't 447 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:12.240 choose it for my business, but I'm not it's not 448 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:14.920 my business. Or we can reorganize it. It's going to 449 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.880 take a little bit of work to redo the system. 450 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:19.119 But at the end of the day, you're gonna be 451 00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:22.160 saving ten thousand dollars a month. So what do you 452 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.480 want ten thousand more revenue or do you want to 453 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.519 stay where you are? Most times they choose they want 454 00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.799 to change, and so it's helping people to recognize the 455 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.599 system that they've created or they've organized, and then helping 456 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:40.160 them to reorganize it. And that can be That's where 457 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:43.799 the human component comes in because people don't ever want 458 00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:46.799 to be told that they're wrong. No one wants to 459 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.160 be told they're wrong. Like I was, what's talking to somebody? 460 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.640 They were, like, the place in our brain that determines 461 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.640 makes a choice as the same place that we determine 462 00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.079 if we're in love with somebody, So telling them that 463 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.440 they're wrong is almost like tell and then they're not 464 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.599 in love with somebody. It's the same sort of brain systems, 465 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.599 And you're like, Okay. When I learned that, I'm like, 466 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.000 oh wow, I can't tell someone they're wrong because that's 467 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:09.799 like saying that you're not in love with this person. 468 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:13.839 So how can I phrase it in that regard so 469 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:18.440 that I can get around those natural defenses? But I 470 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:21.279 do have to take consider like, hey, so here's here's 471 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.599 here's the way it's going to play out. And when 472 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.000 you sort of take it to them talking about their 473 00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:30.480 pain but also talking about logic and your son of 474 00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.559 sizing up where are they in that space, then you 475 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:35.440 learn how to communicate them a little bit better. But 476 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.839 I learned that about the Love and the Wrong Thing 477 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.319 maybe fifteen years ago and I've never forgotten it. It 478 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:44.079 was really powerful mindset change for me. 479 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.880 Yeah, it's all about perception and the way that you're 480 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:50.119 approaching the interaction. 481 00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:50.559 You know. 482 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.279 I was just thinking about how if you're working with 483 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.480 an entrepreneur, for example, that conversation could be a lot 484 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:00.279 different if you're trying to kind of persuade them or 485 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.839 that a better way is available to you. But that 486 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.599 process may look different if you're communicating with, you know, 487 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:09.960 someone who has to manage a team and now. 488 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.640 They have to get other people on the word. 489 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.759 Have you worked with people where you had to find 490 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:17.359 someone who would advocate for a change in a system, 491 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:19.720 because that's where it starts getting really complex. 492 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:22.640 Yeah, it's like a tech thing. Like so I was 493 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.880 a tech implementer for years and when we would have 494 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:31.200 like a tech implementation, we say something like the biggest 495 00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.160 challenge when we have talked with the senior level people, 496 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.960 the biggest challenge that we're going to have is the mindset. 497 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:42.119 It's a behavioral change, that's what it's gonna be. And 498 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.440 if you're adopting the software and you're using it, and 499 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.839 you're being consistent with using the software, it's gonna come 500 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.200 off much better. If you don't and they see you 501 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.319 sort of not doing it and still using the same 502 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.839 old system that you've been doing, they're not gonna they're 503 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.400 not gonna they're not going to take it seriously. So 504 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:03.319 the behavior at this place, depending on where you are, 505 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:06.920 I'm gonna starts from the top. That's just like people 506 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:12.279 are sort of tribal in nature and they so if there, 507 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.000 if the top is not falling into place, then that 508 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.680 makes it much. It makes it such a hard decision, 509 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.799 a hard change, and there like oh, hey, so again 510 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:27.079 we took consideration adopters, and then there's just general resistance 511 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:31.319 to change. Meeting people where they are and understanding like, hey, 512 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.160 who's going to be my champion for this tech. Let's 513 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:36.480 say the software change. Let's say we're going to use 514 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:40.519 Tableau or power be out. Who's gonna be my Who 515 00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:42.880 is my person? Seth is my person. She is an 516 00:28:42.880 -->

00:28:46.440 early adopted to tech. She gets it, and the team 517 00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:49.720 trusts her. Let me talk to Seth because I need 518 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.519 to talk to Seth because she understands and they trust 519 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:54.799 her more than they trust me. And then Seth gets 520 00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:57.000 into it and she's like, hey, guys, I did this 521 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.640 on tableau and it's I never thought we could present 522 00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.599 data like this awesome. And so it's just working in 523 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:06.920 that regard of saying like who can I leverage here? 524 00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:10.440 Who's my leverage point? Well, Seth, to me will be 525 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:13.880 the best leverage point because she's smart, she gets it, 526 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.119 and people trust her. And I don't have to work 527 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:19.559 on Johnny, who hates change, who's been in this job 528 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:22.480 for twenty years and doesn't it really is basically works 529 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:25.839 off of AOL dot com emails, Right, He's going to 530 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:28.680 be the hardest person to work with. I want to 531 00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.400 work with Seth. And then eventually Johnny, because he likes Seth, 532 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.799 probably will will sort of implement with us. He's going 533 00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:39.400 to be last. And I've been in places where we've 534 00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:42.440 been implemented tech and like, hey, tomorrow's the last day. 535 00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:46.160 We're turning this off tomorrow, and they're still using it, 536 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.039 and you're like, we told you we're going to turn 537 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.839 it off. And so I think that's the way to 538 00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.559 at least I've learned to work with people in that regard. 539 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.000 This is what I think a lot of data professionals 540 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.759 could benefit from is having this kind of thinking so 541 00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:04.359 that they can more effectively present the pros the cons, 542 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.079 providing enough information that connects to the stakeholder to be 543 00:30:08.119 --> 00:30:11.079 able to actually get their projects moving forward. 544 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:18.599 Yes, I didn't exercise two weeks ago, and it basically 545 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.279 asked us like who who are heroes? Or who do 546 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:24.720 we look up to or something. I'm a big Star 547 00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:28.799 Trek nerd, like I'm off the charts, like I've been 548 00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:31.640 to and I probably have seen that bit episode of 549 00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:35.119 Star Trek all of them and so sort of like 550 00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:38.880 like is Captain Macard or Captain Conkirk or something. So 551

00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:44.200 my like favorite people are mister Data and mister Spock. 552 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.680 We're both smart, they're logical, and they have that's their 553 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:53.279 that's their character, right. Both of them struggled with the 554 00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:58.400 emotional heart of humans. Mister Spock was half human, but 555 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.440 there was a there was always a struggle. They were 556 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.880 different and I think for me, I see data, I 557 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.319 see the problem, right, and it makes sense to fix 558 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:13.400 the problem. That's how the data says this, Why are 559 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:16.880 we not doing this? It's leading us to this place? Okay, 560 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.920 well okay, and then it's frustrating. So you saw mister data, 561 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.000 but he was it was his programming did not accept 562 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.000 some of these human you know, experiences, and mister spot 563 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:34.480 Bolsto was like, that's not logical. Well, unfortunately, the world 564 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:39.480 is there are working with emotions and understanding that we 565 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.160 do have to understand who's in front of us and 566 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:47.319 work with them because while the data may be black 567 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:51.160 and white, people generally are never operating they're operating shades 568 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.160 of gray. And I think that's the toughest thing because 569 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.200 you want to be logical. The data clearly says something, 570 00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:01.680 it's not like it's irrefutable, and you still have pushback 571 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.720 from leadership stakeholders. You're like, I don't have to tell you. 572 00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.279 I don't explain this to you anymore. And that's when 573 00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:12.559 you're like, okay, what what is happening From the stakeholder's 574 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:17.359 position that I need to take consideration. Maybe there are 575 00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.119 terriffs or something. Maybe there's some external forces that are 576 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.160 happening that we're not privy to, and so then you 577 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:26.519 have to have a little bit of courage. What's really 578 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:29.960 happening here? What am I not understanding because I'm not 579 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:32.440 understanding something that's happening that I'm telling you something is 580 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.119 irrefutable to you and you're still not doing it. So 581 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.839 is it's that we can we can work with or 582 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:43.839 is it is it is it an insurmountable wall. Then, 583 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.599 as a data analyst, I have given you the data, 584 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.160 I have told you my personal opinion experience, as you 585 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:54.960 have given me this mission. Now it's it's it's it's 586 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.279 up to you to make those decisions. And I think 587 00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:00.680 that's the hardest part for clients. And I've given you 588 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.759 this stuff, this information. I have a lot of clients 589 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.240 who work with clients like a lot of B to B, 590 00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.160 but there sometimes B two C. Why don't they do it? 591 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:12.079 I'm like, they're humans and maybe the pain wasn't great enough, 592 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.079 or there was something externally that was stopping them and 593 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.440 they just couldn't do it. As smart as it is 594 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.400 and much makes sense to us. So like my data 595 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:24.079 analysts out there. I am with you, I have been 596 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:29.119 there before, and there's a point we just go I've 597 00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.119 done all I've can. I could hear, we've done all 598 00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:32.480 we could. 599 00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:35.440 It is so hard if you're in the data so 600 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.279 much and you see what's happening around you and within 601 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:41.200 the business, and you can see a better way, and 602 00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.160 it looks so clear, like this is the path we 603 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.480 need to take. But oftentimes there's it's more than just 604 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:50.160 your manager. Maybe your manager approves the idea, but then 605 00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:53.079 there's like five other levels of managers above your. 606 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.400 Manager that they need to agree to it. 607 00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:57.759 And if you don't have the level of influence, or 608 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.599 maybe maybe you don't take all of the all of 609 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:04.000 the necessary kind of proactive measures that you would need 610 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.079 to take in order to actually make that change happen, 611 00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.159 whether it's in your control or not. Like it's really hard, 612 00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:13.000 uh to come to terms with you know, when you 613 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:16.320 were talking about like your mindset and having to get 614 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.679 to the point where you're like, I've done everything I could. 615 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:23.119 I feel like that's what my perspective has been as well, 616 00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:25.519 is like I'm just going to provide you with everything 617 00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.679 that I can. I'm going to give it my best, 618 00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:31.960 my best chance with communication information, thinking through all the 619 00:34:32.000 -->

00:34:35.239 different things that are impacting what we're seeing, and if 620 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.920 that still does not drive the change that in my 621 00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:41.719 mind makes a lot of sense, then it's I can 622 00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:44.800 step back and say I'm still really satisfied with the 623 00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:45.599 work that I've done. 624 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:53.039 Absolutely, And you know, I I think people who who 625 00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.519 are like mister Spot's and the mystery datas of the world, 626 00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:00.960 we we just we just see and we're like, this 627 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.360 is what it is. Now there is a counterpoint here 628 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:09.639 where I personally am working. So I'm an introvert, right 629 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.079 whether that Let's see where this goes, and so talking 630 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.119 to people can be fairly draining to me, not in 631 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:18.920 a bad way, it's just it's just the way my 632 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.119 body is wir My friend's an extrovert. He gets charged 633 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:23.719 up talking to people. He really does like he loves it. 634 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:32.360 There is a There's ways to get your point across. 635 00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:36.039 And there's a book by Dale carneie was like Making 636 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:39.400 Friends and Winning Influence. I think I'm misquoting it, but 637 00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:43.159 it's it was a really powerful book that if you 638 00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:48.559 can get into the art of persuasion and those soft skills, 639 00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:52.360 right because as a data analyst, you have to have 640 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:56.320 hard skills, but there's also sort of those soft skills 641 00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:00.960 which I think people like the through datas in spots 642 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:03.920 of the world we're like, no, I don't don't want 643 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:06.760 to do that. Well, you don't want to, but it's 644 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.599 part of it, and you have to learn how to 645 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:12.079 how to talk to people and get them to see 646 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:16.119 your point of view. And that for me is something 647 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:18.599 that I'm working on in terms of presenting and how 648 00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:22.360 to really make sure that I'm getting my point across. 649 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:26.760 It's not manipulation, right, It's just making sure that I 650 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:30.760 am I am taking my information and. 651 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:36.360 I am communicating it in the best way because maybe 652 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.880 they have some objections there, and I need to know 653 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:44.159 how to address those objections because I'm giving you the fact. 654 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:47.320 But it's not always about the facts. And I think 655 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.519 for my data analysts who are listening, you know understanding 656 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.679 that those sauce skills are just as important to your 657 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:57.760 job as the hard skills. That took me a long 658 00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.960 time and I'm in my forties now still working on it, 659 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:03.840 and and by far there are people who I who 660 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.320 I'm you seeing, the people who can talk to anybody 661 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.199 or they can talk, they can get they can get 662 00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.199 their way, and you're like, how did not even screaming 663 00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:14.639 or holler? And they just know how to talk to me? 664 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:17.360 And you're like, how did you do that? They do? 665 00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:21.519 And I think that's a skill that if more data 666 00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:25.400 analysts people and sort of tech people can can really 667 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:30.719 learn the better and then that makes you really sort 668 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:36.679 of irreplaceable because you're like, well, seth, she she conveyed 669 00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:40.880 a really tough decision to us, but she I trusted 670 00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.159 her and I knew that she and she knew how 671 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:47.280 I felt, and we connected and so I had no 672 00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:48.920 problem at the end of the day. Is obtually their 673 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:53.559 their their choice. But you have said, hey, I see you, 674 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:58.400 I hear you, And I think that's something that that 675 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.519 that I would say to any one. You can learn 676 00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:04.280 how to be more persuasive in your communication and be 677 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:08.239 a better communicator. And I catches if I'm a good communicator, okay, sure, 678 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.880 but I can be a better one. And that's how 679 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:12.519 where I try to stop myself. I can always get better. 680 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:13.440 It's always something I can. 681 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.880 Learn, right. 682 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.599 I operate on that same line of thinking too, is 683 00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.000 like I can always be getting better and I love 684 00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:22.599 when you talked about persuasion because I just don't think 685 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:26.199 a lot of people assume that person would have anything 686 00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:29.239 to do with the data world, but it is such 687 00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.679 a crucial part of it because it's all based on decisions, 688 00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:35.639 and that's how decisions get made. I had two other 689 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.280 questions for you, will for people who want to change 690 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:41.920 a system, but they

have people in their crew who don't. 691 00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:45.239 They don't believe in it for whatever reason. I just 692 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.400 want to know, like, what do you think the biggest 693 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:52.480 internal beliefs are that hold people back from saying like, yeah, 694 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:54.760 let's iterate, let's get better, like let's. 695 00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:59.639 Change in systems thinking they have tried to address this 696 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.159 all the mental models, right, Like what mental model is 697 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.880 this person operating from? Very rarely is it very obvious 698 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.119 what someone's mental model is operating Some people are and 699 00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:14.559 even that if they're loud on whatever, there's something else 700 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:21.199 behind that mental model. So understanding that people have mental models, 701 00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:25.440 and they can have multiple mental models within and and happening. 702 00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.880 For instance, with the change, people don't like change, some 703 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.679 not everybody, Not every everyone gets in change, and even 704 00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:36.239 probably people who are more willing to, we still have 705 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:39.719 like a knee your grassic ough. I got to change 706 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:44.480 this email to this email right, a thing like even 707 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.400 with me, I'm like, I got to give you my 708 00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.400 new EMIL address and it's a pin the butt. But 709 00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:55.000 it's like, what what fear are we operating from? So 710 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.079 I taught yoga for twenty years and that a lot 711 00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:02.199 of that that wasn't just opposes, but it's what's holding 712 00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:06.840 us back. It's either you're operating from abundance or scarcity. 713 00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:10.039 I mean that seems like it's so simplistic, But at 714 00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:14.039 the same time, I'm like, what are they fearing? And 715 00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.440 that's not like people think that fear is like a 716 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:18.880 bad thing. It's like, no, it's it's like an alarm system. 717 00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:23.280 They're having a fear. Where's I's from? And and those 718 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.559 people sometimes just don't like changing, Like Okay, tell me 719 00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:33.199 what's going on so we can work through it. That's 720 00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:35.119 a tough It's it's not even a tough one. It's 721 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.199 so One thing I was going to add to the 722 00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.719 data analysts is that we even even the most logical 723 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:46.639 data analysts is still an emotional creature. There's still emotions 724 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.440 that are running underneath the surface. There whether the veneer 725 00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:54.679 is stoic or whatever. It's still there and you're still 726 00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:57.800 sort of I have to appeal to this emotions. What 727 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.320 emotions am I appealing to? So fears a really really 728 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:04.400 powerful one, and it's the one that it can do 729 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.480 a lot of damage. Honestly, so addressing fears and you 730 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.400 don't have to call it fears. You can call it hesitations, objections. 731 00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:13.880 There's probably a lot of ways to color that. One 732 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:18.400 understanding that and say Okay, I understand your objection, your fear. 733 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:21.039 Let's walk through it to see if we can solve 734 00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.559 it now. Depending on the situations, if it's not one 735 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:25.920 of those life or deaths, then it's worth a conversation 736 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:30.679 of saying okay, let's try to work through it. At 737 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.199 the end of the day, I want to make sure 738 00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:36.440 that you can be okay with it. But it's also 739 00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:38.519 like sort of a leader and a team leader managers 740 00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:43.039 like I value your opinion, but we're one's still going 741 00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.360 to do this, but I want to make it easy 742 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:46.920 for you. I want to make sure that you're with 743 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.199 us and then you're part of our team and that 744 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.000 we're addressing your fears up to the place that's professional 745 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:53.360 and in that boundary. 746 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:57.079 Yeah, you may not be able to specifically call out 747 00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.840 what someone's fears are. There may be hints of it, 748 00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:03.960 things that they say that can kind of be artifacts 749 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.920 to inform the situation, and then you can take that 750 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:10.079 and meet the person where they're at. 751 00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:13.920 I've got twin boys, right, you don't understand how different 752 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:16.599 kids are until you have a few or what. But 753 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:20.239 one boy is like, he's like me. He's like a 754 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.039 problem solver. He wants when we heat, he has to 755 00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:26.159 have his two little toys with him. Don't give him 756 00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:29.920 some comfort whatever, it's a normal developmental thing. My other 757 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.840 kid is actually unbothered by most things. But when he 758 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:35.920 gets tired, so when he starts to whine, I know 759 00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:39.440 that he's

tired. And so I have to understand that 760 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.679 both of my boys are very different. My youngest is 761 00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:48.800 very physical. My oldest is he's like, eh, but that's 762 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.639 what me. Hugging my youngest one is how he gets 763 00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.400 safe and secure. It's like the same thing with obviously 764 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:56.480 with people, it's like how do I work with their 765 00:42:56.519 --> 00:43:01.119 thing to get them secure? Always when I saw a job, 766 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:03.920 like what's your communication style? What's your management's style? I 767 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.079 want to know what those are, and they're like, no 768 00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.519 one's ever asked me that before I'm asking you. I 769 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:13.800 want to know what you are because then it opens 770 00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.079 a conversation up so that I can understand, because they're like, oh, 771 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:20.199 he wants to wants to understand me. I want to 772 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.559 understand how communic with you? And I think that is 773 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:26.800 Those are just questions that I learned to ask years 774 00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:30.199 and years ago, but it paid off hues and sometimes 775 00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:32.519 they don't know what it is and it makes them 776 00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.280 think a bit and like, Okay, I actually prefer that 777 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.119 you email me, don't text me. Oh I've been texting you. 778 00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:41.400 You're like, oh, yeah, you don't like that. No, And 779 00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:44.360 then often they are responding to your emails. I wish 780 00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:46.679 there was like a course to take, but it's just 781 00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:48.519 sort of how do humans operate. 782 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.559 People are probably going to be very surprised that someone's 783 00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:56.199 actually asking them questions about what they prefer, because it 784 00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:59.239 just doesn't happen that often. But if you can do it, 785 00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:03.880 then it just builds further trust and influence in your role. 786 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.800 Will you have given so many amazing insights on systems? 787 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:11.440 Thinking what idea about systems? Do you really hope that 788 00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:13.000 people take away from this. 789 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:20.679 Conversation that systems that we that we can organize. We 790 00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:26.039 don't generally create them, we can, but that we organize them, 791 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:30.039 and that they're living and breathing in general, that they 792 00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:35.519 that they need attention, that they need they need tendering 793 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.000 and sort of nurturing, and that that

sounds sort of 794 00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:42.639 but in a lot of regards, it's like, what is 795 00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:46.480 my system with my work? What is my system with 796 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:49.639 myself in terms of how I approach work? What's my 797 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:53.000 system between Seth and I and how we communicate? And 798 00:44:54.760 --> 00:45:00.239 how can we sort of make this work better? And 799 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:03.760 it may be nothing wrong, it's like, but just being 800 00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:08.280 aware I think about systems and how people interact, how 801 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.960 these nodes are interacting and system with the tech and 802 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:15.039 the people and the outside world, and just understanding that. 803 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:19.840 It's like, Okay, I understand that people don't operate in silos, 804 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:25.159 that things are connected, then I can understand things a 805 00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:28.800 little bit better. I may not uncover all the secrets, 806 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:32.760 but I can certainly understand a little bit better. And 807 00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:35.599 I think if we sort of understand each other a 808 00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:38.679 little bit better, then we interact, our interaction is going 809 00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:40.639 to just be better. And so I think that's what 810 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:42.960 I would take away from it. So looking holistically at 811 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.440 you know what sort of goes on, and be willing 812 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.280 to know that it's just the way that sometimes those 813 00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:55.800 systems are organized. You know, great bad on. It helps 814 00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:57.320 you make decisions. 815 00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.800 If you're doing that, then you're already one more person 816 00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:05.360 in the space that is showing up yes and putting 817 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:07.920 your energy to good use. So thank you so much again, 818 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:10.519 Will for joining the podcast. It really was a pleasure 819 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:13.239 of having this conversation with you. Really appreciate your time. 820 00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:14.679 Thank you for having me Sam. 821 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:18.880 Thank you for listening to the quietly ambitious analyst. If 822 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.960 today's episode helped you see data in a new way, 823 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.480 share it with someone who'd appreciate it too, and follow 824 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:29.320 the show for more lessons on business communication and driving 825 00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:32.760 impact with data. And if you found it helpful, leaving 826 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.199 a quick review really helps this podcast reach more people 827 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.800 who want to grow in the same way. Until next time, 828 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:41.559 focus only on what you can control and strive to 829 00:46:41.559 --> 00:46:43.079 be one percent better each day.