النص الكامل لحلقة The First Brick: Building Your Property Investment Foundation

think, in general, real estate is a very forgiving market, so if you get it wrong, you're going to be okay, but you're going to have to wait quite a while to be okay and start again. 00:05:05.305 --> 00:05:16.229 So I think if you get the first one right, and that's through strategy and planning and not just guessing and buying anything, I think it can really set you up for the future and give you a lot of options. 00:05:16.250 --> 00:05:16.793 We speak to a lot of people. 00:05:16.793 --> 00:05:22.793 For example, yesterday I was speaking to someone who said look, I don't know if I want to buy a home in three years or if I want to keep investing. 00:05:22.793 --> 00:05:24.002 I haven't made that decision yet. 00:05:24.002 --> 00:05:32.486 But this is my circumstance now, and so getting that first property right gives him that option in three years time to make that decision. 00:05:32.486 --> 00:05:35.630 If he wanted to keep investing and rent on the side, he could. 00:05:35.630 --> 00:05:39.661 Or if he wanted to buy his really big, fancy house and live in it, he could as well. 00:05:39.661 --> 00:05:47.252 But if he got that wrong and he just guessed his way through the first one, it would cripple his decision-making in that three years. 00:05:47.680 --> 00:06:00.908 Yeah, there's a good reason why most Australian property investors only own between one or two properties, because often the first property they buy is not a property that's going to provide for a long-term sustainable ability to keep growing and building a large portfolio. 00:06:00.908 --> 00:06:07.117 So the first brick is absolutely critical and arguably more people probably get it wrong than right. 00:06:07.117 --> 00:06:18.392 Yeah, and I'm a big proponent of what you've just said there and that is sort of the optionality, Like if you get the buying right, it pretty much gives you time for decision making. 00:06:18.392 --> 00:06:20.500 So, like you know, three years time, four years time, whatever. 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:25.350 And that example is like whether or not he wants to keep investing or buy a home, Fine, you can worry about that when you get there. 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:29.923 You know if you buy the wrong property first, you're not going to get that option to actually make that choice. 00:06:29.923 --> 00:06:34.230 But if you get the right property first guess what you can make that choice when you get there. 00:06:34.230 --> 00:06:35.413 You don't need to rush it right now. 00:06:35.592 --> 00:06:45.920 Yeah, for sure, and I think, like working in the industry and yourself, obviously, interviewing so many people in the industry we're always talking about building a plan, on a strategy on how to buy two, three, four, five, six, whatever properties. 00:06:45.920 --> 00:07:14.808 But there's a lot of people out there that their goal is to buy a home, their dream home, and that's it, and they don't want to build a portfolio, or they don't, it's not their priority, their priority is the home and then a portfolio, for example, and or they're just unsure and they don't know which way they want to go, because their life is changing they're getting married, they're getting divorced, whatever it is, they're having kids, they want to travel first, and so getting it right at the start can just give you option, and then, when you get to that point where you're ready to figure it all out again, then you can build that plan. 00:07:14.808 --> 00:07:17.210 So, yeah, I think first brick is very important. 00:07:17.230 --> 00:07:21.795 Yeah, it is, and probably can be, forgiving, and it can be forgiving of mistakes. 00:07:21.795 --> 00:07:29.242 Then to your point sometimes it takes a long time for those mistakes to be fixed and that can really stifle you. 00:07:29.242 --> 00:07:49.666 But what I find is, with property investing, the best property investors I know is that they apply, or they sort of take an approach of sort of strategic patience, and that is, you can't do things too fast, you deliberately need things to go slower sometimes, and time is a great enabler for choices and decision-making. 00:07:49.666 --> 00:07:50.992 So don't rush it. 00:07:50.992 --> 00:07:51.776 That's a key thing. 00:07:51.776 --> 00:07:54.264 Don't rush it, whereas there's way too many people in a rush these days. 00:07:54.305 --> 00:07:55.449 I think yeah, for sure. 00:07:55.449 --> 00:08:03.146 I was giving a talk, a presentation, the other day, and the number one, I mean, question everyone gets, I guess, is when should we buy? 00:08:03.146 --> 00:08:04.043 How quickly should we buy? 00:08:04.043 --> 00:08:10.442 The second one, and I guess the answer that I guess a lot of people say and I agree with is it's when you're ready. 00:08:10.942 --> 00:08:12.125 If you're not ready, don't rush. 00:08:12.125 --> 00:08:16.431 But if you are ready, then there's probably no point of waiting any longer. 00:08:16.431 --> 00:08:22.195 It's when you're ready is the time to jump in, and when you're ready is when your finances are sorted. 00:08:22.195 --> 00:08:30.666 When you've got a buffer in place, if things go wrong, you're still going to be able to survive and live and not have to rely on two minute noodles and beans to get through. 00:08:30.666 --> 00:08:37.105 I'm a big believer that real estate is there to enhance your lifestyle and enhance your life and not make it worse. 00:08:37.105 --> 00:08:50.842 And so if I'm going to buy something and it's going to be I'm rushing to get into the market, but as a consequence, that means I'm going to have to live off two minute noodles for the next three years and annoy my wife as well, and it's probably not the right time for me to jump in. 00:08:51.082 --> 00:08:55.733 Yeah, you don't want to compromise too much right through investing in property, and sometimes you've got to wait. 00:08:55.733 --> 00:08:58.108 It might not be your time and waiting is okay. 00:08:58.108 --> 00:09:00.246 So how did you

end up doing what you're doing? 00:09:00.246 --> 00:09:03.430 Did you go to school and grow up wanting to be a buyer's? 00:09:03.490 --> 00:09:03.690 agent? 00:09:03.690 --> 00:09:09.240 No, I went to school and wanted to be a teacher, and both my sisters are teachers. 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:11.582 They're 10 years older than me, so I saw them. 00:09:11.582 --> 00:09:14.085 Great profession yeah, they enjoy what they do. 00:09:14.085 --> 00:09:18.949 But I wanted to be a PE teacher or a sports teacher or work in business. 00:09:18.949 --> 00:09:21.831 I didn't know what in business, I just liked business. 00:09:21.831 --> 00:09:24.874 I liked watching Shark Tank and all the rest. 00:09:24.874 --> 00:09:28.637 And when I was at school, one of my subjects was business studies and I never studied it. 00:09:28.637 --> 00:09:32.985 It just made sense to me and I did really really well in year 12. 00:09:33.004 --> 00:09:34.232 What did you learn in business studies at school? 00:09:34.232 --> 00:09:34.935 I don't remember. 00:09:34.935 --> 00:09:37.945 My sister was the business teacher as well. 00:09:37.945 --> 00:09:39.509 So I hope she's not listening. 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:42.527 She wasn't your teacher, was she she? 00:09:42.547 --> 00:09:42.627 was. 00:09:42.627 --> 00:09:45.547 I was actually in a classroom with your sister teaching you. 00:09:45.586 --> 00:09:49.062 Yeah, yeah, oh God, yeah 10 years older than me, so she How'd that go? 00:09:49.062 --> 00:09:49.762 Did she get in trouble a? 00:09:49.782 --> 00:09:57.187 lot, yeah, often, and it was unfair because my punishment was just, you know, she told my parents and they let me have it. 00:09:57.187 --> 00:09:59.628 So everyone else just got a detention or something. 00:09:59.628 --> 00:10:01.710 But yeah, it just made sense to me. 00:10:01.710 --> 00:10:09.915 I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do, so I said, look, I'll just study hard, I'll get the best marks I can get, then I'll have options and then figure it out. 00:10:09.915 --> 00:10:20.963 And so once I finished school, I had early offers to business studies, early offers to teaching, and then one of my mates said, hey, I'm going to go to Geelong and study optometry. 00:10:20.963 --> 00:10:23.030 And I said, oh, what's? 00:10:23.050 --> 00:10:31.603 that about and I looked into it, and so optometry is a five-year degree, but if you went to Geelong you could do it at over three years only, without taking any holidays. 00:10:31.603 --> 00:10:33.946 No breaks, no holidays at all no breaks. 00:10:33.946 --> 00:10:38.653 Okay, you get one week between end of year and new semesters. 00:10:38.653 --> 00:10:39.435 That was it. 00:10:39.435 --> 00:10:41.566 Which uni is down in Geelong Deakin? 00:10:41.646 --> 00:10:42.528 That's Deakin down there. 00:10:42.528 --> 00:10:43.350 Yeah, Deakin University. 00:10:44.421 --> 00:10:47.490 And so it was a brand new degree, a brand new course at Deakin. 00:10:47.490 --> 00:10:51.450 And I said to him I didn't do any science subjects, I didn't do anything. 00:10:51.450 --> 00:10:53.637 I didn't do any science subjects, I didn't do anything. 00:10:53.637 --> 00:10:54.475 But this optometry sounds all right. 00:10:54.475 --> 00:11:07.728 Because my thought process was well, I don't need a business degree to do business, but you probably need money and optometry is what was a high paying career at the time when you finished university and I feel like I could do it in three years. 00:11:07.728 --> 00:11:09.186 A business degree is going to take four years. 00:11:09.186 --> 00:11:12.821 So I'm going to finish an optometry degree much quicker than anything else Teaching. 00:11:12.821 --> 00:11:14.503 I'm going to finish an optometry degree much quicker than anything else. 00:11:14.503 --> 00:11:16.805 Teaching is four years, business is four years, so I'll finish it early. 00:11:16.805 --> 00:11:20.329 I'll get paid well, then I'll take the money and go into business. 00:11:20.329 --> 00:11:22.671 And so I moved to Geelong. 00:11:22.671 --> 00:11:28.097 I studied optometry, didn't enjoy the study at all, had no interest in it, didn't enjoy it at all. 00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:36.233 I enjoyed the lifestyle and living abroad and living not abroad but interstate, and living with mates and being independent and whatnot. 00:11:36.233 --> 00:11:37.586 But I did not enjoy the study. 00:11:37.586 --> 00:11:40.345 I had no interest in it and it wasn't my thing. 00:11:40.345 --> 00:11:43.589 Like a lot of people in school just understood science. 00:11:43.589 --> 00:11:44.331 I didn't. 00:11:44.331 --> 00:11:45.441 I understood business. 00:11:45.441 --> 00:11:52.312 But I got through it, got my job, made some money and then just moved into businesses. 00:11:52.312 --> 00:11:54.487 I owned a restaurant, I owned a perfume and makeup business. 00:11:54.487 --> 00:11:54.578 I owned a restaurant. 00:11:54.578 --> 00:11:55.304 I owned a perfume and makeup business. 00:11:55.304 --> 00:11:56.446 I sold running socks. 00:11:56.446 --> 00:11:58.190 I've done a whole bunch of weird things. 00:11:58.691 --> 00:12:01.905 But then when I was at university I was reading books about property. 00:12:01.905 --> 00:12:08.329 My dad got a book from a seminar that he went to and my dad doesn't read books so he sent it to me. 00:12:08.329 --> 00:12:12.440 I read it and it changed my mindset about everything. 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:14.062 I thought, okay, this property thing is cool. 00:12:14.062 --> 00:12:24.454 But the book was very much about theory on how to build a portfolio, but it wasn't very practical on how do I know where to buy a property, how do I know this is a good location or not? 00:12:24.454 --> 00:12:32.443 So I started listening to every podcast under the sun I was listening to the Smart Property Investment podcast from a long time ago. 00:12:32.463 --> 00:12:35.729 I graduated university at 20, or 19, 20. 00:12:35.729 --> 00:12:37.031 You graduated at 20?

00:12:37.031 --> 00:12:38.835 Yeah, three years. 00:12:38.835 --> 00:12:40.185 So when did you finish school? 00:12:40.365 --> 00:12:40.988 17, yeah. 00:12:41.780 --> 00:12:44.530 I went straight into university and finished at 20. 00:12:44.660 --> 00:12:48.672 So you're living alone by yourself, along with mates from early 18? 00:12:48.672 --> 00:12:48.672 . 00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:49.240 Yeah. 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.701 So, yeah, pretty much Trouble, yeah, pretty much Trouble. 00:12:52.701 --> 00:12:56.527 And property books, eating Maggi noodles Were you eating well? 00:12:56.527 --> 00:12:57.886 I was not eating well. 00:12:57.886 --> 00:13:01.090 Yeah, and I still don't know how to make anything. 00:13:01.090 --> 00:13:03.788 Yeah, thank you to my wife for keeping me alive. 00:13:03.788 --> 00:13:09.371 But yeah, I just got in love with property and the theory of property. 00:13:09.371 --> 00:13:13.922 But then I started researching on how to actually buy property and there wasn't much out there at the time. 00:13:13.922 --> 00:13:15.623 So this is 10 years ago. 00:13:15.923 --> 00:13:22.910 Yeah okay, and I found some resources on how to figure it out, and so I said I'm just going to work it out myself. 00:13:22.910 --> 00:13:43.436 So I built a spreadsheet of data and information on suburbs random data, I could find free information and then I built this pretty big spreadsheet that was covering a couple of around a thousand suburbs across the country, and then purchased my first property with my contract that I had with my salary, and got some bank to agree to give me some money. 00:13:43.436 --> 00:13:47.052 And then my mates were like hey, can you help us? 00:13:47.052 --> 00:13:48.138 We want to buy property too. 00:13:48.138 --> 00:13:49.161 And so I started helping them. 00:13:49.161 --> 00:13:51.526 And then I have one of my good friends. 00:13:51.526 --> 00:13:58.651 He loves property, he's built a property app as well, and he said to me you know you can get paid to do this. 00:13:58.651 --> 00:14:00.506 I said who's going to pay me to buy property? 00:14:00.506 --> 00:14:00.988 What does that mean? 00:14:00.988 --> 00:14:03.889 And he said there's this thing called buyer's agency or being a buyer's agent. 00:14:03.889 --> 00:14:12.052 And I looked into it, and so during my own education I also did a real estate license, just for my own knowledge. 00:14:12.213 --> 00:14:15.762 Yeah sure, and so I was already licensed. 00:14:15.762 --> 00:14:20.272 Yeah, and so I quit my job and I started Firstbrick literally like two days later after he told me about it. 00:14:20.693 --> 00:14:24.450 Okay, that's pretty impulsive and responsive when you know. 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:25.924 You know it was lots to unpack there. 00:14:25.924 --> 00:14:27.469 Yeah, let's go to a break. 00:14:27.469 --> 00:14:27.810 Stay with us. 00:14:27.810 --> 00:14:31.204 We're going to look into this with Krilas when we come back back in a moment. 00:14:31.204 -->

00:14:38.812 Welcome back, phil Tarrant, host of the SmartPort Investment Show, with Krillis Mansour. 00:14:38.812 --> 00:14:41.416 He's from First Break Property Buyers Agency. 00:14:41.416 --> 00:14:47.312 So you heard of this thing called being a buyer's agent and you get paid professionally. 00:14:47.312 --> 00:14:51.411 So you quit your job as a professional, as an optometrist? 00:14:51.411 --> 00:14:52.091 Yeah. 00:14:52.091 --> 00:14:53.826 So what did you just walk into? 00:14:53.826 --> 00:14:56.046 Were you working like in a clinic or somewhere other? 00:14:56.046 --> 00:14:58.066 Yeah, so what's an optometrist? 00:14:58.066 --> 00:15:05.961 Is that when you sort of look through that thingamajig and they I don't know what you call it and they sort of move lenses around and they say you need these glasses? 00:15:05.961 --> 00:15:06.943 Yeah, pretty much. 00:15:07.124 --> 00:15:08.025 Is that what an optometrist does? 00:15:08.025 --> 00:15:12.350 So an optometrist is a, a medical professional that specializes on eyes. 00:15:12.350 --> 00:15:17.716 Yeah, so we check your eyes, for obviously, you know the basic one is getting your glasses. 00:15:17.716 --> 00:15:22.411 You know, if people need glasses, we get the right lenses and the right power and the prescription to get your glasses or contact lenses. 00:15:22.411 --> 00:15:25.730 But also there's a big part of it which is health-related. 00:15:25.780 --> 00:15:33.030 So we're looking for diseases and you know issues you can tell a lot about through the eyes, right, because they take, take like photos of your eyes and stuff yeah, so it's going. 00:15:33.050 --> 00:15:39.996 So when, when I was practicing, we had like a little lens and a very shiny light that would be put in front of your eye and we could see the back of your eye and we'd look at it. 00:15:39.996 --> 00:15:42.721 But yeah, now photos are a bit more like. 00:15:42.721 --> 00:15:52.229 These machines that take photos are a bit more widespread across we look for just stuff that looks wrong and then go yeah, if it doesn't look right here, of course someone um, pretty much we're looking. 00:15:52.288 --> 00:15:55.595 You can see diabetes before someone knows that they've got diabetes through your eye. 00:15:55.595 --> 00:15:57.427 What does diabetes look like through the eye? 00:15:57.427 --> 00:16:02.472 You see like some blood vessels that don't look all right and you can see like bleeding and whatnot in the back of your eye. 00:16:02.472 --> 00:16:08.562 So a lot of things happen in the back of your eye before it presents at the front, before you can physically see it by the back of your eye. 00:16:08.581 --> 00:16:13.086 Do you mean the back of the retina bit, or yes, okay, yeah, so where the retina is In your eye. 00:16:13.086 --> 00:16:16.490 So not behind your eye, yeah, yeah, not behind, but in your eye, but at the back of it. 00:16:16.509 --> 00:16:21.295 Yeah, so where the light hits the retina and all the blood vessels and everything's, that's where it is Okay. 00:16:21.295 --> 00:16:22.516 Yeah, that's what an optometrist does. 00:16:22.516 --> 00:16:39.463 All right two years, and then I was Did you like any of it? 00:16:39.463 --> 00:16:39.925 No, it's very routine. 00:16:39.925 --> 00:16:40.968 You say the same thing all day, every day. 00:16:40.988 --> 00:16:42.091 You make the same jokes with the patients. 00:16:42.091 --> 00:16:51.985 You're sitting in a dark room because it needs to be dark so we can see your eyes properly, and it's quite sleepy environment and it just wasn't for me. 00:16:51.985 --> 00:16:57.488 I like to run around and do things, but while I was working as an optometrist, I did own a restaurant at the same time. 00:16:57.488 --> 00:16:58.493 What sort of restaurant? 00:16:58.493 --> 00:16:58.875 Did you have. 00:16:58.875 --> 00:17:04.831 It was an Arabic Middle Eastern restaurant Whereabouts In Campbelltown, in Campbelltown. 00:17:04.831 --> 00:17:05.913 Yeah, what was it called? 00:17:05.913 --> 00:17:08.675 It was called Shisha, mosaic, shisha. 00:17:08.695 --> 00:17:09.179 Mosaic. 00:17:09.179 --> 00:17:12.365 Yeah, like you go in there and just have a shisha and get some food. 00:17:12.385 --> 00:17:12.946 Get some food. 00:17:12.946 --> 00:17:14.490 Yeah, yeah, some shawarma. 00:17:14.490 --> 00:17:16.314 Yeah, all of it, yeah. 00:17:16.314 --> 00:17:17.884 So that kept me. 00:17:17.884 --> 00:17:20.170 That was what excited me during the-. 00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:22.007 Was it successful the restaurant. 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:29.387 We broke even in like four months, okay, which is pretty quick for hospitality, yeah yeah, but I had that for a couple of years, and then we sold it off. 00:17:29.387 --> 00:17:31.089 It's hard going, though, isn't it? 00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:41.211 Yeah Well, I was working as an optometrist from nine to five, and then I'd head out to the restaurant straight away and then be there from about 5.30 to one in the morning, every day, six days a week. 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.730 Were you cooking or were you sort of on the-? 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.885 No, no, I definitely wasn't cooking, they'd be getting two minute noodles. 00:17:46.885 --> 00:17:52.727 No, I was just on the floor and serving and running the business behind the scenes. 00:17:52.727 --> 00:18:07.692 But I was just there every day getting supplies and you know I was very data-driven even in that, like I'd get all the receipts from what everyone ordered and then try and forecast what we're going to need. 00:18:08.020 --> 00:18:08.964 What was your favorite dish? 00:18:08.964 --> 00:18:13.570 I think our most popular dish was just like a chicken shawarma burger. 00:18:13.570 --> 00:18:16.889 Yeah, it was pretty basic, pretty standard. 00:18:16.889 --> 00:18:18.766 People were usually coming for the shishas, to be honest. 00:18:19.299 --> 00:18:20.703 So people were just sitting around with shishas. 00:18:20.703 --> 00:18:22.589

Yeah pretty much you served beer. 00:18:22.730 --> 00:18:24.907 No, no, we didn't have an alcohol license. 00:18:24.907 --> 00:18:27.026 It's hard to get in Campbelltown. 00:18:27.528 --> 00:18:32.872 Yeah, okay, so you're working as an optometrist and also running a restaurant? 00:18:32.872 --> 00:18:35.880 Yeah, and what a perf makeup perfume business somewhere. 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:37.025 Makeup business is. 00:18:37.346 --> 00:18:37.567 Yeah. 00:18:37.819 --> 00:18:38.361 And then you went. 00:18:38.361 --> 00:18:40.287 Someone went, you should become buyer's agent. 00:18:40.287 --> 00:18:43.866 Yeah, so you went, okay, yeah, I'd already done my real estate license. 00:18:43.866 --> 00:18:45.306 So just next day bam. 00:18:45.425 --> 00:18:48.422 Yeah, so at that point I had sold the restaurant so I had a bit of time. 00:18:48.422 --> 00:18:49.362 Yeah, and I was. 00:18:49.362 --> 00:18:51.343 I realized I was pretty bored. 00:18:51.343 --> 00:18:56.047 I had some 6 pm to midnight to do nothing. 00:18:56.206 --> 00:18:57.548 And I said what do people do? 00:18:57.548 --> 00:18:58.968 People watching movies and whatnot? 00:18:58.968 --> 00:18:59.809 It's not for me. 00:18:59.809 --> 00:19:03.291 And so, yeah, he told me about this buyer's agency thing. 00:19:03.291 --> 00:19:05.853 I looked into it and I said, yeah, this is what I want to do. 00:19:05.853 --> 00:19:07.054 This seems interesting. 00:19:07.054 --> 00:19:14.648 I like property, I like to help people buy property, I like to talk about property, I like to educate people about property. 00:19:14.648 --> 00:19:16.361 It's just what I've. 00:19:16.361 --> 00:19:19.730 I had a passion for it and I didn't know that I had a passion for it. 00:19:19.730 --> 00:19:21.482 It just I had an interest. 00:19:21.482 --> 00:19:28.367 It was more than a hobby, because even after I bought my own property, I was still updating those spreadsheets, just for my own. 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:33.281 So was your first property investment property or an owned or occupied home Investment Investment which buy? 00:19:33.281 --> 00:19:33.703 What was it? 00:19:34.003 --> 00:19:35.949 It was in Geelong. 00:19:35.949 --> 00:19:37.699 Yeah, we bought it for $600,000. 00:19:37.699 --> 00:19:42.039 It was, and now it's valued around $1.1. 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.927 I was going to say at that time it was not bad. 00:19:44.927 --> 00:19:48.080 Buying in Geelong yeah, what was it in one of the suburbs out of Geelong? 00:19:48.341 --> 00:19:52.124 So it's in Highton, just across from Deakin University. 00:19:52.124 --> 00:20:00.849 So I did all this research and ended up buying where I lived for university and then after that we moved into, we bought Brisbane and Adelaide. 00:20:01.790 --> 00:20:04.332 So what sort of value portfolio do you have now? 00:20:04.653 --> 00:20:08.135 So it's around just over five, five and a half million. 00:20:08.316 --> 00:20:11.337 Yeah, good, and you're just still buying, yeah. 00:20:11.859 --> 00:20:14.903 Yeah, so I recently built an app, so I spent a lot of money on that. 00:20:14.903 --> 00:20:15.605 Oh, okay. 00:20:15.605 --> 00:20:18.304 Not on property, not on property. 00:20:18.304 --> 00:20:19.843 I have no different industry. 00:20:19.843 --> 00:20:23.333 But yeah, I think this year we'll be looking at buying another property. 00:20:23.333 --> 00:20:23.737 Yeah, Okay. 00:20:23.737 --> 00:20:25.544 Last couple have been commercial. 00:20:25.544 --> 00:20:27.149 They'll probably stick to commercial as well. 00:20:27.169 --> 00:20:37.733 Yeah, so you're going through journey as an investor yourself and you like working back to this idea around the first brick with people who are starting out as property investors. 00:20:37.733 --> 00:20:43.231 What do you think the sort of biggest misconception is for people about investing in property if they're just starting out? 00:20:43.942 --> 00:20:44.925 Yeah, I think it's. 00:20:44.925 --> 00:20:51.269 The biggest misconception is you got to have a lot of money to get into the market, and it's just simply not true. 00:20:51.269 --> 00:20:54.000 There are so many in today's environment. 00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:02.951 There are so many loan options and products available to help people get into the market, whether it's low percentage loans or low percent deposits. 00:21:02.951 --> 00:21:04.839 So 10%, 15%, 5%. 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:12.683 We work with a lot of doctors and medical professionals and they don't realize that they can borrow up to 90% or 95% without paying LMI. 00:21:13.004 --> 00:21:14.509 Yeah, doctors get it, medical professionals get it. 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:15.365 Good yeah, medical professionals get it good. 00:21:15.365 --> 00:21:18.807 Yeah, medical professionals get it good, so do solicitors and chartered accountants. 00:21:18.807 --> 00:21:30.740 So there's a few professions out there where I've got one guy who every time he saves up $35,000, he calls me and we buy a property because 5% deposit, no LMI, and he's quite leveraged at the moment. 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.782 I bet you he is, but he can afford it because of his job. 00:21:33.782 --> 00:21:34.503 He's a doctor. 00:21:34.503 --> 00:21:38.467 Okay, yeah, so his income is pretty solid. 00:21:38.508 --> 00:21:39.108 He's a young bloke. 00:21:39.148 --> 00:21:42.972 Yeah, he's 27, 26, 27. 00:21:42.992 --> 00:21:45.515 Yeah, so he's making money, but he's just leveraging up. 00:21:45.556 --> 00:21:51.043 Yeah, pretty much, and he's happy to do so, and his wife is also a doctor, so their incomes are quite high. 00:21:51.043 --> 00:21:55.129 But besides that, you've got guarantor loans as well, which are pretty. 00:21:55.129 --> 00:22:02.819 I'm finding they're being used more and more often these days by people to get into the market For investment purposes For investment purposes. 00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:04.747 Well, it's all like first home owners. 00:22:04.747 --> 00:22:14.563 Now, like I

can't remember, maybe 60% of getting some sort of maybe it's even higher, I can't remember the number Getting of sort of family support in order to get into it. 00:22:14.563 --> 00:22:17.206 So the same, the number getting of sort of family support in order to get into it. 00:22:17.226 --> 00:22:34.856 So the same thing's happening with first-time investors, yeah, and I don't know if it's because we post a lot of content on our socials and so a lot of people have been watching our feed for a few years and they come through and they say, hey, we've been watching stuff for ages and we don't want to buy a home, we want to invest, we just want to build a home we want to invest. 00:22:34.876 --> 00:22:35.659 We just want to build a portfolio. 00:22:35.659 --> 00:22:48.672 But they're like we're young, we don't have eaves of cash on us, so they're using guarantor loans often to get into the market, and so I think one of the biggest misconceptions is having to have so much money. 00:22:48.672 --> 00:23:00.234 And the benefit of Not rushing because we were talking about that earlier, but getting in earlier is obviously the longer you hold a property, the more compound growth that you can achieve and the more money you can make long-term. 00:23:00.234 --> 00:23:12.415 So even if it's not buying multiple properties straight away and just getting that one if you're ready, and even if you're ready via a guarantor loan or a low deposit loan, it could be very beneficial in the long run. 00:23:12.860 --> 00:23:15.889 So there's a couple of terms that we're using here you might not be familiar with. 00:23:15.889 --> 00:23:22.628 So the view towards what I mentioned at the top end of this podcast around, if you're relatively new to property investing, get you across some of this stuff. 00:23:22.628 --> 00:23:30.851 Lmi is Lenders, mortgage Insurance, so essentially LVR is the loan to value ratio. 00:23:30.851 --> 00:23:37.745 So this is the value of the loan versus the size of the loan, versus the value of the property, and most people invest at sort of 80%. 00:23:37.745 --> 00:23:46.839 So for really really simple numbers, if it's a million dollar property loan to value ratio of 80% would be $800 million, would be the debt and $800,000. 00:23:47.199 --> 00:23:51.710 Sorry $800,000 would be the debt and $200,000 would be the deposit. 00:23:51.710 --> 00:23:53.533 What LMI does? 00:23:53.533 --> 00:23:59.001 It means you can borrow at higher amounts at 85, 90, 95% sometimes. 00:23:59.001 --> 00:24:01.309 Every now and then someone do 100%. 00:24:01.309 --> 00:24:01.470 Yeah. 00:24:01.470 --> 00:24:03.226 I remember way back when I started investing. 00:24:03.226 --> 00:24:04.706 You'd be able to get 103%, yeah. 00:24:04.706 --> 00:24:09.028 So what this means is that you need to put in less deposit, which is good. 00:24:09.028 --> 00:24:11.568 It means your debt against the property is higher. 00:24:11.568 --> 00:24:17.140 So what they do is LMI's lender's mortgage insurance. 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:30.263 It's insurance policy taken out by the lender against you that you pay for on the basis that if you can't afford to make your repayments and they need to sell the property, it insures them against any sort of negative equity in it. 00:24:30.263 --> 00:24:31.927 So it's a price you need to pay. 00:24:31.927 --> 00:24:45.530 So what Krilos is talking about there is that some professionals can actually not have to pay LMI because they sit there and think well, you're an accountant or you're a doctor or you're a lawyer, you're probably going to be okay and you're not going to lose your job, so everything should be all right. 00:24:45.530 --> 00:24:46.372 That's pretty much right. 00:24:46.721 --> 00:24:47.564 Yeah, pretty much. 00:24:47.564 --> 00:24:53.112 The bank looks at certain professions as a higher, a more stable income. 00:24:53.112 --> 00:24:59.318 They're not worried about these professions losing their job or losing their incomes overnight or anything like that. 00:24:59.318 --> 00:25:11.470 Very hard for these people to get made redundant in their industries, so the bank sees them as less of a risk and so they're happy to lend them more money without using that insurance that you would have to pay for otherwise. 00:25:11.830 --> 00:25:17.162 Yeah, and then you talk about sort of a family guarantee or a parental guarantee loan. 00:25:17.162 --> 00:25:17.763 Tell us about that. 00:25:18.023 --> 00:25:34.948 Yeah, so a guarantor loan is when, if someone wants to buy a property and their parents typically it's their parents, it could be another family member, but usually, I would say 95% of cases it's a parent has other properties they can use the property as a guarantee rather than using a deposit. 00:25:34.948 --> 00:25:42.374 So the bank would say, okay, you want to borrow whatever it is $500,000, you need a $100,000 deposit. 00:25:42.374 --> 00:25:43.741 But you don't have that. 00:25:43.741 --> 00:25:49.001 But your parents have a property and it's paid off enough debt that we can use that as security. 00:25:49.001 --> 00:26:04.881 And so if you couldn't pay off your loan and you went bankrupt or there was a problem, and the bank would use that security as security and could sell or use that to recover their funds, similar to the LMI example. 00:26:05.442 --> 00:26:13.368 Typically that doesn't happen because the bank is quite responsible these days and has to make sure that you can afford the loan, and so they use that as a deposit. 00:26:13.368 --> 00:26:26.812 And so instead of me having to save up 50 or $100,000 to buy a $500,000 property, I actually have to save up zero and you would use your parents' property or family member's property as that guarantee for the deposit. 00:26:26.812 --> 00:26:31.870 And then so the bank will give you the full funds, the 500,000 plus the M-Duty. 00:26:31.870 --> 00:26:36.069 So, yeah, that 103% or 105% loan and you put $0 down. 00:26:36.069 -->

00:26:43.871 Obviously, in that scenario your loan is quite large, so your payments are going to be larger than if you had put down a deposit at 10% or 20%. 00:26:43.871 --> 00:26:52.301 But it does mean you get to enter the market with no money down, or get into the market much earlier than you would have otherwise, and that's the argument with it. 00:26:52.381 --> 00:26:55.466 So it might take you three years to save up for a deposit. 00:26:55.466 --> 00:27:00.663 Well, if you buy a good property in three years time, it's really going to move the need. 00:27:00.663 --> 00:27:11.800 Also, after that three years of time you can essentially refinance the property because you might have, you know, at least 20% of equity inside of it and then you get a normal loan. 00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:16.840 So it's a contingent connection to your parents' assets. 00:27:16.840 --> 00:27:28.128 So if you stuff up, they're going to go after your parents to sell the property, get their money back Pretty much yeah, so it's very rare, like I said, that that occurs, but in a scenario where something majorly wrong occurred, then yes. 00:27:29.020 --> 00:27:31.153 So major parents don't need to refinance their places. 00:27:31.153 --> 00:27:33.081 They don't need to pull money out to give it to you. 00:27:33.081 --> 00:27:35.128 It's a 103% mortgage. 00:27:35.208 --> 00:27:35.490 Correct. 00:27:35.490 --> 00:27:37.727 So, yeah, they don't have to do anything. 00:27:37.727 --> 00:27:46.451 There's a couple of documents that they obviously got assigned to approve that they are guaranteeing the property, but there's no physical cash transferring or anything like that. 00:27:46.451 --> 00:27:58.865 It is just like on the title as a security and then once that property you've purchased gets to an 80% LVR, then you can then apply to remove your parent's property as that guarantor. 00:27:58.865 --> 00:28:02.640 So if something did go wrong, then your parents, their property, would then be unaffected. 00:28:03.182 --> 00:28:12.041 And you need to have a chat about this with your parents, because it means that property in some ways is tied up, so your parents really can't do anything with it, while it's got an incumbency against it. 00:28:12.041 --> 00:28:24.475 So you need to have very considered conversations with your parents, or parents with your children, around how that would all work and some obligations and expectations around responsibilities with it. 00:28:24.475 --> 00:28:34.614 But it can work, it can be a great enabler for it and I imagine that's how an investor can build sort of a good property portfolio with limited capital right by doing those things. 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.360 Yeah for sure. 00:28:35.360 --> 00:28:41.326 So we've got quite a few clients that we've purchased for in the past who have used guarantor loans to get in. 00:28:41.326 --> 00:28:47.947 And then it does obviously take a little bit longer to build equity, because that first 20% is to remove your parents off the loan. 00:28:47.947 --> 00:28:53.386 But once they've done that, they've put no money down and then the property continues to go up in value. 00:28:53.386 --> 00:29:07.247 They pay down some debt and then they build some equity pretty quickly and then they can use that equity to then buy multiple properties or more properties and then obviously that recycles and continues and then so you're building a portfolio and you never put any money down from the start. 00:29:07.247 --> 00:29:08.451 So it's pretty. 00:29:09.051 --> 00:29:11.163 I think it's a very powerful tool. 00:29:11.163 --> 00:29:19.149 Obviously it has to be weighed up properly and you know and look at all the numbers and make sure you can afford everything, because your loan is going to be higher, so your repayments are going to be higher. 00:29:19.149 --> 00:29:39.588 But if you're a lower income earner or if it takes you a long time to save and the market's going to be moving much quicker than you're saving, you may never get into the market, and so it's a way to get in, and then having limited capital this kind of negates that, because once you've got one, then the equity can start building and then you can reuse that. 00:29:39.588 --> 00:29:40.150 It's a big grant enabler. 00:29:40.170 --> 00:29:43.005 Do people sit there and just think I've just got free money? 00:29:43.025 --> 00:29:44.289 Yeah, pretty much. 00:29:44.600 --> 00:29:53.951 In many ways because the issue is, though, you've got to be able to sustain the debt levels and be comfortable and confident around that, and to service a $500,000 loan. 00:29:53.951 --> 00:30:02.976 It's quite a lot of money, and if you're a younger person inverted commas, whatever that means and you're leveraging a guaranteed loan on behalf of your parents, you need to start thinking about. 00:30:02.976 --> 00:30:09.968 Well, you might have a moment in time where two people are contributing to the income generated by a family, but if you start having children, that changes things. 00:30:09.968 --> 00:30:11.603 So you've got to be pretty good with your timing on this. 00:30:11.603 --> 00:30:12.866 Yeah, got to be pretty good with your timing on this. 00:30:12.886 --> 00:30:14.932 Yeah, anyone that's ever used a guarantor loan. 00:30:14.932 --> 00:30:26.912 We always say you know, we always get them to have a chat with their accountant, have a chat with their broker and really run the numbers, not just for right now but in the future, especially if you've got plans to have children or you've got children on the way. 00:30:26.912 --> 00:30:30.184 That's usually the biggest one the dependents, because they cost the most. 00:30:30.385 --> 00:30:44.811 They cost a lot, and sometimes you're better off just paying the LMI right if you've got a smaller deposit, and that way you're not incumbent with your parents or family member, and the more money you put in, the smaller your repayment is going to be. 00:30:44.851 -->

00:30:46.836 Yeah, for sure, so it's just a balancing act. 00:30:46.897 --> 00:30:47.799 Yeah, there's options. 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:50.148 So the idea isn't that guarantor loans are the only way. 00:30:50.148 --> 00:31:20.794 Obviously, like we mentioned, you know, uh, lower percent deposits even if that means paying LMI, or if you're a professional that doesn't have to pay, the LMI is definitely taking advantage of it, but there's so many people that don't even know that they can take advantage of that, um, and so there's just so many options and a lot of people will even um, even if they've got big deposits, they'll still go at 95% right, because you know, and if they get no LMI, because it means they can acquire more quicker, yeah, and leverage it up and realise capital growth out of it. 00:31:22.579 --> 00:31:24.983 Again, everyone is very different and the type of properties you're going to buy are going to be very different. 00:31:24.983 --> 00:31:25.724 We'll have a chat about that. 00:31:25.724 --> 00:31:26.525 We'll just go to another break. 00:31:26.525 --> 00:31:27.447 Stay with us back in a moment. 00:31:27.447 --> 00:31:34.326 Welcome back, phil Tarrant from Smart Property Investment with Krilos Mansour. 00:31:34.326 --> 00:31:36.391 First brick property buyers. 00:31:36.391 --> 00:31:40.179 I think the first brick is pretty important, particularly when it comes to a guarantor loan. 00:31:40.179 --> 00:31:46.629 If you buy the first property as the wrong property, you'd be stuck a long time with a guarantee against them. 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:51.846 Yeah, and your parents will be a bit upset with you as well, so there's a bit of family pressure there. 00:31:51.846 --> 00:31:52.710 Got to get the first one. 00:31:52.789 --> 00:32:02.282 It's very important and I guess that will probably sort of therefore determine the type of property you would buy, with a view towards how big the debt is and how you service the debt. 00:32:02.282 --> 00:32:13.889 But you'll hear a lot of people on property podcasts or on social media talking about capital growth or cashflow properties, or capital growth or yielding properties two different things. 00:32:13.889 --> 00:32:15.716 Capital growth is the value of the property grows, and cashflow properties, or capital growth or yielding properties two different things. 00:32:15.716 --> 00:32:29.542 Capital growth is the value of the property grows and cashflow properties is where, ideally, the rent will contribute a large way to covering the cost of holding the property or be higher than that, so it puts money in your back pocket. 00:32:30.083 --> 00:32:30.645 Two different things. 00:32:30.645 --> 00:32:32.779 Sometimes you need to choose one over the other. 00:32:32.779 --> 00:32:42.207 Capital growth properties don't always cashflow orientated properties, and cashflow orientated properties often don't deliver the same amount of capital growth as other properties. 00:32:42.207 --> 00:32:44.782 Sometimes you get both of them, but what's better? 00:32:44.782 --> 00:32:45.925 What's a smarter investment? 00:32:45.925 --> 00:32:51.169 I guess if you're new to it and you've got to get rid of a guaranteed loan, you probably want capital growth, right. 00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:54.167 Yeah, I think in general, growth is king. 00:32:54.167 --> 00:33:08.461 In general we buy property to see the appreciation in the property's value, because it's going to grow much quicker than we can typically save, and that's, I guess, the idea of why people might use a guarantor loan is because the property market's going to move quicker than I can save, so I want to get into the market quicker. 00:33:08.461 --> 00:33:10.583 So in general, growth is king. 00:33:10.583 --> 00:33:18.114 But of course serviceability is very important if you want to build a portfolio, and so serviceability is obviously being able to pay the bank back. 00:33:18.114 --> 00:33:27.089 So if you want to buy one or two or three properties or you want to build a portfolio, you got to be able to afford all the debts and all the loans you have and all the repayments. 00:33:27.129 --> 00:33:31.143 So sometimes it's not black and white that we just go growth only. 00:33:31.143 --> 00:33:36.932 Sometimes we will chase more yield over growth or we'll try and mix it up. 00:33:36.932 --> 00:33:51.342 To be honest, very rarely do we chase only a yield and completely neglect growth, because the yield returns aren't super amazing in residential real estate, to be honest, and it's very dependent on a lot of external factors. 00:33:51.342 --> 00:33:57.730 If the interest rates are quite high, like they are at the moment, it's very hard to find a high yielding property that's going to put money in your pocket straight away. 00:33:58.119 --> 00:33:58.982 Yeah, it's a bit of a misnomer. 00:33:58.982 --> 00:34:07.486 When it comes to resi property investment, a lot of people sort of come into it thinking that it's easy to build a positively geared property portfolio. 00:34:07.486 --> 00:34:12.210 It's actually quite tough, yeah, and it's all relevant to how much money you put. 00:34:12.210 --> 00:34:22.588 You can build a positively property portfolio really, really easily if you have no debt, but most people, when they're new to it, are probably borrowing at least at 80%, if not higher. 00:34:22.588 --> 00:34:29.371 So it's often very hard to build cashflow positive portfolio and it can take a long time for that to take place. 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:30.141 Yeah, for sure. 00:34:30.141 --> 00:34:44.150 I think balancing the debt and the serviceability, but still really targeting growth, is probably the way to go most of the time, but it is obviously horses for courses and making sure that you get the right strategy for the right people. 00:34:44.150 --> 00:34:50.206 So earlier I was talking about a client who's a doctor and his wife is a doctor, so they're on very, very high incomes. 00:34:51.240 -->

00:34:55.943 What do a couple of young doctors sort of make Instead of talking out of school, because it takes you so long. 00:34:55.963 --> 00:34:57.673 What do a couple of young doctors sort of make Instead of talking out of school? 00:34:57.673 --> 00:35:01.429 Oh, because it takes you so long to become a doctor, when they actually graduated at around 27. 00:35:01.429 --> 00:35:03.527 They're actually getting paid quite well. 00:35:03.527 --> 00:35:10.166 Obviously, it depends on your specialty, but they're 250 minimum each, which is a solid amount of income. 00:35:10.166 --> 00:35:11.190 Yeah, it's not bad. 00:35:11.601 --> 00:35:12.625 It's considerable. 00:35:12.625 --> 00:35:14.822 I mean, you're talking about half a million dollars combined now. 00:35:14.822 --> 00:35:21.230 So, for this situation, $100 give or take a week is not going to make a difference to them on the yield. 00:35:21.230 --> 00:35:42.230 But we also work with a lot of people who are single income earners and first year out of uni, or still in university, have part-time jobs, whatever, and they might be earning $60,000 to $80,000 a year, and so the yield, or the cash flow from a property, is more important. 00:35:42.230 --> 00:35:42.869 Yeah, to make sure that they can service. 00:35:42.869 --> 00:35:55.290 When we build our strategies, or when we do our data analysis to find the right place for people to buy, it is always a growth focus, but we take into account the minimum yield we need for that person, okay, and so what we find, though, is usually, if there's a very strict yield criteria, we do have to sacrifice a bit of. 00:35:55.290 --> 00:35:59.771 You know what we believe is growth yeah, an area that we believe is going to grow quite well. 00:36:00.500 --> 00:36:07.269 Yeah, and it's interesting you say that in that a lot of people will think, well, we buy out here, so therefore we'll try and match the client to where we choose to buy. 00:36:07.269 --> 00:36:22.525 But what you're saying is you're saying you know people are going to have borrowing caps and therefore they're going to have price point caps, but you need to view it through the lens of how much they're able to weather the negative cashflow connected with the property, which is going to limit your searches. 00:36:22.525 --> 00:36:24.681 Right, that's going to tell you where you can search Pretty much. 00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:31.324 Yeah, so we purchase, we work nationwide, so we're not just in Sydney, we buy across the whole country. 00:36:31.324 --> 00:36:48.371 And we do that because, yeah, I like to work with the first time, like with people just starting and a lot of the time they don't have a budget for Sydney or Sydney might not just be the right choice for them, and so being able to look everywhere is a blessing, but it's also a curse when you have, you know, so many suburbs. 00:36:48.371 --> 00:36:52.846 So, being when you have yield criteria and whatnot, it does obviously narrow down that search. 00:36:53.168 --> 00:36:54.289 So where do you like at the moment? 00:36:54.289 --> 00:36:55.813 Like you know, where are you finding? 00:36:55.813 --> 00:36:56.873 Where do you find? 00:36:56.873 --> 00:37:00.536 You're buying the majority of properties for the purpose of capital growth at the moment. 00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:06.032 Based on the clients that we typically have between 600 and 850,. 00:37:06.032 --> 00:37:07.706 We've been doing a lot in Adelaide. 00:37:07.907 --> 00:37:08.047 Yep. 00:37:08.779 --> 00:37:14.364 We've been buying in Adelaide for the last three years Very consistently, yeah, and before that. 00:37:14.364 --> 00:37:23.371 So five years ago, four years ago, we were very heavily into Brisbane yeah, anywhere, in particular in Brisbane you guys, don't expect you to give me all the secrets. 00:37:23.911 --> 00:37:32.516 We did a lot of work up around Fernie Grove, fernie Hills and then a little bit south side as well, around that Tingalpa and Wynnum and surrounding suburbs. 00:37:32.516 --> 00:37:35.344 Yeah, that's Caboolture. 00:37:35.344 --> 00:37:40.206 No, caboolture is a bit further north, further north, yeah, more like Deception Bay. 00:37:40.206 --> 00:37:48.447 People take a few suburbs and so we were pretty heavy into Brisbane five years ago, six, five and four years ago. 00:37:48.447 --> 00:37:49.614 You've been doing this a while then. 00:37:49.614 --> 00:37:52.487 Yeah, so business is moving on to its sixth year. 00:37:52.487 --> 00:37:54.586 Wow, so we're not thank you. 00:37:54.586 --> 00:38:00.014 We've passed that five-year mark that everyone talks about, for business is to get there. 00:38:00.014 --> 00:38:00.536 So that's cool. 00:38:00.536 --> 00:38:09.851 But yeah, so we just followed the data and we were buying in oh yeah, within 10Ks of Brisbane CBD for under $400,000. 00:38:09.851 --> 00:38:10.393 Crazy. 00:38:10.393 --> 00:38:29.306 So, yeah, it wasn't that long ago, and now they're, you know, up to a million plus in these areas, and if you wanted to get into the Brisbane market for 700,000, you're really looking at the Logan or Ipswich, or, and it's not is Logan like 700 grand now, is it as a minimum really you could get under for a four bedroom house. 00:38:29.346 --> 00:38:30.188 Yeah, for a four bedroom. 00:38:30.188 --> 00:38:32.320 Yeah, you could get under 700. 00:38:32.601 --> 00:38:37.384 I was buying stuff there for like a couple hundred grand Kingston and joints like that. 00:38:37.543 --> 00:38:48.509 Yeah, I was just looking at some previous clients' results from back when we first started and we have properties in Hillcrest and Marsden and surrounding for 200, 250. 00:38:48.509 --> 00:38:52.971 But the market's changed and we change with it and we follow the data. 00:38:52.971 --> 00:38:55.712 But the last three years we've been pretty heavy in the Adelaide market. 00:38:56.092 --> 00:38:56.373 Okay. 00:38:56.373 --> 00:39:00.835 Yeah, and still bullish Still there, yeah, and I

think Adelaide, Adelaide's just one of those places. 00:39:00.835 --> 00:39:05.538 Adelaide's median price is higher than Melbourne these days. 00:39:05.538 --> 00:39:11.382 I think Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide are higher than Melbourne's. 00:39:11.382 --> 00:39:11.981 Are you in Melbourne yet? 00:39:12.001 --> 00:39:12.543 You're looking around. 00:39:12.543 --> 00:39:13.103 Are you in Melbourne yet? 00:39:13.103 --> 00:39:13.683 You're looking around? 00:39:13.683 --> 00:39:25.413 Yeah, so we've seen in the data that indicating Melbourne might have a bit of a run, so we started buying again in Melbourne at the end of last year, but before that it was still a bit. 00:39:25.413 --> 00:39:28.456 I don't think the data was solid enough for us to jump in yet. 00:39:28.456 --> 00:39:31.208 Yeah, but we have just started again to buy. 00:39:31.208 --> 00:39:33.822 The problem with Victoria, though, is the stamp duty is so high. 00:39:34.043 --> 00:39:38.630 Yeah, you never know what the government's going to do, what the next time they're going to impose a new tax. 00:39:38.630 --> 00:39:47.298 Yeah, you know, and this is the issue right Like, and it's sort of extrapolated out you know how interest rates and inflation affect property investment strategies. 00:39:47.298 --> 00:39:48.925 Right, there's a lot of things you can't control. 00:39:48.925 --> 00:39:58.855 Yeah, there's so many variables and so this, this presentation I was giving to a group of people the other day, was it like you, standing up with a powerpoint type of thing? 00:39:58.855 --> 00:39:59.960 Pretty much, yes, very old school um, well it's. 00:40:00.081 --> 00:40:04.090 It's hard to know because they weren't there specifically for, uh, real estate talk. 00:40:04.090 --> 00:40:09.016 Um, I was asked to give a talk as a pre-talk to another talk, and so I I did it. 00:40:09.096 --> 00:40:21.208 I guess it sort of resonates with you that sort of stuff, because it sounds as though you really enjoy the education aspect of, yeah, you know, introducing the concept around of property investment to people looking for wealth creation or might not even thinking about it. 00:40:21.288 --> 00:40:32.206 Yeah, and that's why I always say yes to these talks, because most of the time, these presentations that I'm getting asked to give them, especially as a pre-talk, a lot of people are not there for real estate by pre-talk, like before someone else. 00:40:35.500 --> 00:40:41.469 Before someone else talks, whatever the main talk was, and so people are not there for real estate information and so a lot of those people don't have any real estate information. 00:40:41.469 --> 00:40:48.088 We're in the real estate industry and you talk to a lot of professionals and so all you hear is real estate, real estate, real estate. 00:40:48.088 --> 00:41:02.565 But some people just don't have any clue and knowledge, and so I always say yes, because you don't know whose mindset you can change, like my whole mindset changed when I got a book because my dad went to a seminar to get a free so there's an inflection point in some ways. 00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:08.132 So if you're the custodian of that inflection point for people, that's you change people's lives. 00:41:08.132 --> 00:41:08.952 I think so. 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:12.210 I think it's pretty cool, to be honest, and I always. 00:41:12.210 --> 00:41:15.519 I never know if people are interested or not when I'm talking. 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:21.639 I only know after, when I walk out and five or six people follow me and can we ask some questions? 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.433 And so, yeah, we had a few questions, which was cool. 00:41:24.433 --> 00:41:24.534 What? 00:41:24.554 --> 00:41:25.679 sort of questions did you get after? 00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:28.447 So these some completely separate. 00:41:28.447 --> 00:41:29.489 You're pre-talking. 00:41:29.489 --> 00:41:35.791 They said, hey, this guy, yeah, I'm talking about property, people probably know the good thing is that most australians have some sort of connectivity. 00:41:35.791 --> 00:41:39.203 They either rent property or they live in it right or you know. 00:41:39.203 --> 00:41:47.726 But there's got to be this sort of nascent moment where people just go, oh, property investment, the idea's got to come from somewhere. 00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.382 Yeah, and that's true and you know so. 00:41:50.382 --> 00:42:00.092 The questions we typically get asked are like similar to what we've been talking about today, and that's why I guess it's a good topic is people are asking hey, km, I've only got. 00:42:00.853 --> 00:42:01.494 People call you KM. 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:02.726 Yeah, everyone just calls me KM. 00:42:02.726 --> 00:42:06.469 People will just say to me hey, km, I've only got 80 grand. 00:42:06.469 --> 00:42:09.828 Everything you said was really cool, but can I get in with 80 grand? 00:42:09.828 --> 00:42:12.184 I said, well, 80 grand is a lot of money. 00:42:12.184 --> 00:42:15.511 If that's on a 10% Buy two, yeah, buy two. 00:42:15.511 --> 00:42:22.079 Or if you can put that as a 10% deposit and you get a bit of money for stamp duty or use that. 00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:24.648 You're talking about a $700,000 property. 00:42:24.648 --> 00:42:28.789 All of a sudden they're like oh, that's a lot more than I thought I could invest in. 00:42:28.809 --> 00:42:29.311 What about the debt? 00:42:29.311 --> 00:42:30.965 How am I going to pay for the debt? 00:42:31.286 --> 00:42:31.726 Yeah, yeah. 00:42:31.766 --> 00:42:32.847 People are still scared of debt. 00:42:33.047 --> 00:42:34.688 True, true for sure. 00:42:34.688 --> 00:42:43.237 I think I've seen a mindset shift, definitely in the younger generation, where they're not as scared of debt as probably like my parents were. 00:42:43.237 --> 00:42:44.181 You know my dad. 00:42:44.181 --> 00:42:45.527 He's a builder. 00:42:45.527 --> 00:42:54.521 He built his own home and then paid it

off and then sold it and then used those funds to build his new home which he lives in, and that was it. 00:42:54.521 --> 00:42:58.543 And then I'm out here collecting debt like candy and he's like what are you doing? 00:42:58.543 --> 00:43:00.585 But it's just the mindset shift. 00:43:00.904 --> 00:43:06.929 Yeah, and the mindset's a key thing, and this comes to, like you know, interest rates and inflation all impact investment strategies. 00:43:06.929 --> 00:43:12.871 Well, it's all relevant, right, but what I'm taking from you is that there's a uniqueness to every single person's decision making. 00:43:12.991 --> 00:43:13.891 Yeah for sure. 00:43:13.891 --> 00:43:17.893 And so that group of people I was speaking to was so diverse. 00:43:17.893 --> 00:43:20.056 You had high income earners, you had low income earners. 00:43:20.056 --> 00:43:22.657 You had uni students who are not earning anything. 00:43:22.657 --> 00:43:24.677 You had married people, you had kids. 00:43:24.677 --> 00:43:26.581 It was so diverse. 00:43:26.581 --> 00:43:31.880 And if I was to stand there and say, hey, you should buy in whatever X suburb. 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:37.032 You should buy in this suburb for 1.5 million or 1.8 million. 00:43:37.779 --> 00:43:46.991 And then wait for it to grow, and then it's not going to work for 99% of those people and unless you tailor your approach, it's just not going to work. 00:43:46.991 --> 00:43:51.748 Evan goes back to what you said right at the start is that majority of people don't get past one or two. 00:43:51.748 --> 00:43:55.931 It's because there's no strategy and it's not personalised. 00:43:55.931 --> 00:43:58.268 They're just jumping into anything. 00:43:58.581 --> 00:43:59.784 You sort of mentioned a high income. 00:43:59.784 --> 00:44:00.447 What do you classify? 00:44:00.447 --> 00:44:01.924 I want to give some context to that. 00:44:01.924 --> 00:44:02.567 What do you classify? 00:44:02.567 --> 00:44:06.306 Because a lot of people probably think they can't invest in property because they don't earn enough money. 00:44:06.306 --> 00:44:08.307 And then you sort of mentioned high income. 00:44:08.307 --> 00:44:09.967 What do you classify as a high income earner? 00:44:15.460 --> 00:44:22.199 So I think this changes constantly, but I think the last thing I read, which was the average income for an Australian, was around $80,000, give or take, so it's always changing. 00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:26.340 I think in Sydney it's about $90,000 or something in Sydney, yeah, $96,000 or somewhere like that yeah. 00:44:26.500 --> 00:44:27.846 So we look at. 00:44:27.846 --> 00:44:33.822 I think high income is probably $130,000 plus because you're usually now in the highest tax bracket as well. 00:44:33.822 --> 00:44:38.648 So if that's how the government's looking at your money, it's probably a good way to look at it. 00:44:38.648 --> 00:44:40.590 But again, it depends where you live. 00:44:40.590 --> 00:44:42.891 Sydney obviously a bit more expensive. 00:44:42.911 --> 00:44:44.594 A lot of people say they can't live on 130. 00:44:44.634 --> 00:44:45.694 Correct, that's right. 00:44:45.694 --> 00:44:48.661 They eat noodles and beans, correct, that's it. 00:44:48.661 --> 00:45:06.960 So 130, I think, is like a standard way to look at it as a higher income, because as a percentage I think you do go into that top 1%, yeah, but obviously 150 plus is yeah, but Sydney is not the entire country and we always got to I think we forget that as people living in Sydney the whole country doesn't revolve around us. 00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:11.606 To be fair, though, isn't Sydney cheaper than what a lot of people think? 00:45:12.047 --> 00:45:12.467 I think cheaper. 00:45:12.467 --> 00:45:13.148 Depending on what you do. 00:45:13.230 --> 00:45:20.623 Yeah, Like you know, if you get out into the burbs and stuff like where, into your sort of, maybe some of your migrant communities. 00:45:20.623 --> 00:45:22.590 Right, if you know the game, you can live cheaply. 00:45:22.750 --> 00:45:23.371 Yeah for sure. 00:45:23.371 --> 00:45:27.869 We see granny flats and whatnot being rented out for $250 a week and whatnot. 00:45:27.869 --> 00:45:29.485 You just got to give up the. 00:45:29.485 --> 00:45:30.661 You know Sydney. 00:45:30.661 --> 00:45:33.827 You know Sydney city lifestyle, sydney city lifestyle Smash avocado at. 00:45:33.847 --> 00:45:35.572 Balmoral Beach on a Sunday. 00:45:35.572 --> 00:45:45.860 Yeah, so does it matter like interest rates and inflation, like that really affects your inflation and what you earn will affect or shape your investment strategy. 00:45:46.340 --> 00:45:48.708 I don't think it matters overly too much. 00:45:48.708 --> 00:46:02.654 What I always tell people is if you're worried about I had this conversation yesterday with someone I said, cause he was a little bit worried about the interest rates, and I said to him, hey, if we could rewind the clock 10 years and would you buy a property? 00:46:02.654 --> 00:46:03.838 And he said, yeah, for sure. 00:46:03.838 --> 00:46:07.976 I said, but I didn't tell you what the interest rate was and he said, yeah, good point. 00:46:07.976 --> 00:46:09.877 I said, yeah, it doesn't really matter. 00:46:09.877 --> 00:46:13.569 Real estate is a get rich slow scheme, right? 00:46:13.569 --> 00:46:22.818 And so when we're buying property for 15, 20, 25 years, what's happening right now or over the next three months or the last three months is somewhat irrelevant. 00:46:22.818 --> 00:46:28.536 Of course you've got to be able to afford it. 00:46:28.536 --> 00:46:28.878 That's one thing. 00:46:28.878 --> 00:46:36.795 So if the interest rates will impact whether you can service your debts, but in 20 years' time you don't know what the interest rates were when you purchased that property 20 years ago. 00:46:37.137 --> 00:46:37.257 No. 00:46:37.690 --> 00:46:41.373 And you're not going to care and you're not going to worry about short-term

fluctuations. 00:46:41.373 --> 00:46:43.877 They're always going to be there and interest rates there's always going to be there and interest rates will. 00:46:43.877 --> 00:46:47.023 There's always going to be an interest rate announcement, however, eight times a year now. 00:46:47.023 --> 00:46:47.943 It is whatever it is. 00:46:47.943 --> 00:46:50.844 They're going to announce it and we're going to react to it. 00:46:50.844 --> 00:46:56.159 Yeah, but really, if you've got your strategy and your plan, the short-term fluctuations don't matter too much. 00:46:56.672 --> 00:47:08.054 It's got to cut the noise out and if you buy a good property and you wait 20 years time and you've probably gone through, you know a couple of market cycles. 00:47:08.054 --> 00:47:10.382 You know you're probably going to go. 00:47:10.382 --> 00:47:11.447 That was a good investment. 00:47:11.507 --> 00:47:13.453 Yeah, yeah, and you'd probably say I should have bought more. 00:47:13.453 --> 00:47:14.096 I should have bought more. 00:47:14.115 --> 00:47:15.400 That's what everyone says I wish I did. 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.456 I should be buying more now. 00:47:17.456 --> 00:47:19.510 I know I should be buying more probably now I'm not. 00:47:19.510 --> 00:47:20.913 Yeah, I should be. 00:47:20.913 --> 00:47:26.277 I I've got every excuse under the sun why I'm not, but I know in 20 years' time I'd go. 00:47:26.277 --> 00:47:28.898 I'm happy I bought that when I did buy it. 00:47:29.078 --> 00:47:30.380 For sure, for sure. 00:47:30.380 --> 00:47:35.683 When the rates are higher like they are now, you obviously hear people complaining, and fair enough. 00:47:35.723 --> 00:47:52.710 like you know, there are obviously people who are feeling the pinch like from a lifestyle perspective, and you know working extra jobs and whatever it is, cost of living and all that, but what you need to remember, though, is that the rates at the moment aren't a lot higher than what the long-term average is. 00:47:52.710 --> 00:47:58.639 If rates come back a percent and a bit, like that's about it, they're at their average long-term average. 00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:01.730 So, like you know, a lot of people think, oh, the rates are so high at the moment. 00:48:01.730 --> 00:48:02.452 They used to be. 00:48:02.452 --> 00:48:13.476 You know, you used to be able to get a 1.72% mortgage. 00:48:13.476 --> 00:48:14.097 Now it's like six and a half. 00:48:14.097 --> 00:48:14.621 Well, yeah, like it's never. 00:48:14.621 --> 00:48:16.710 Unless something drastic happens, they're never going to go back to 0.1% official cash rate. 00:48:16.909 --> 00:48:21.161 I think people got very excited over it, and rightly so, because it was exciting times. 00:48:21.161 --> 00:48:22.311 They were giving out money for free. 00:48:22.311 --> 00:48:24.134 But that's obviously not the norm. 00:48:24.134 --> 00:48:31.076 And, yeah, if you look at history, yeah, the norms is pretty much 1% less than where we are at the moment and it'll stabilize. 00:48:31.076 --> 00:48:39.076 And the RBA has kept telling us as well that they're targeting around 3% anyway, so it's not going to get much lower than what people are expecting. 00:48:39.269 --> 00:48:48.616 No, I reckon in this when we get to a terminal rate, whenever that is downwards terminal rate, like if you're getting mortgages with a four in it, I'd be surprised. 00:48:48.616 --> 00:48:58.636 You know, as a property investor you assume you might get sort of low fives On the basis there is more rate cuts For sure as an investor interest only stuff. 00:48:58.837 --> 00:49:02.039 Yeah, all my loans are seven and a half plus at the moment. 00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:03.556 So yeah, we'll take five. 00:49:03.556 --> 00:49:07.112 It'd be good for the cashflow. 00:49:07.112 --> 00:49:09.478 But again, we didn't buy those properties, worrying about the rates. 00:49:09.478 --> 00:49:12.014 I couldn't tell you what the rates were when I bought them, to be honest. 00:49:12.014 --> 00:49:13.239 I mean it doesn't really matter. 00:49:13.831 --> 00:49:14.371 I can't remember. 00:49:14.371 --> 00:49:16.719 I sort of got to map it and document and save it right. 00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:22.177 But like I remember at certain times going, oh yeah, I think I was paying a lot more than what I was paying right now I can't remember. 00:49:22.177 --> 00:49:24.500 I know I actually know my rates now really well. 00:49:24.500 --> 00:49:30.217 Yeah, because I Because they're higher, because they're higher, but I still worked hard on them and I think I got pretty good rates. 00:49:30.309 --> 00:49:39.842 I've been sort of like mid to low-ish sixes right for interest-only stuff, and it's not by 6.44, I think I've got with some lenders at the moment. 00:49:39.842 --> 00:49:46.081 Yeah, even if it comes out to 5.44, it doesn't really move the needle that much. 00:49:46.201 --> 00:49:47.023 Not overly. 00:49:47.811 --> 00:49:52.536 It's not going to change largely what my strategy is Correct If my rates come back a percentage point. 00:49:53.090 --> 00:49:53.534 For sure. 00:49:53.534 --> 00:49:58.382 Yeah, I might be able to borrow a tiny bit more Maybe, but it's tiny, right, it's very small. 00:49:58.429 --> 00:50:08.478 I think the number was the 25 basis points that was cut last month, assuming that lenders pass it on, and I think they should all be passing. 00:50:08.478 --> 00:50:12.018 I think 28th of Feb was when a lot of the lenders were passing on this stuff. 00:50:12.038 --> 00:50:12.860 I ain't seen nothing yet. 00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:23.061 I haven't seen either, and I reckon, depending on how you invest or what entity you're investing in, just don't assume you're going to get interest rates cut. 00:50:23.061 --> 00:50:27.378 I think it goes for you about another $12,000 of serviceability. 00:50:27.378 --> 00:50:29.182 Yeah, it's not huge. 00:50:29.182 --> 00:50:29.703 It's not huge. 00:50:29.703 --> 00:50:31.931 Maybe I've got that

number completely butchered, if I have. 00:50:31.931 --> 00:50:34.119 I'm happy to say I'm wrong, but I think I'm right. 00:50:34.179 --> 00:50:35.944 Yeah, it's not a massive figure. 00:50:35.965 --> 00:51:03.049 It's not a big deal and I always, you know, when we have conversations with people and when we have a three-way call with them and the broker, and they're offering a couple of different options and they're chasing the lower interest rate and you're talking about 0.1% difference, but one lender is giving you an offset and a few extra facilities and one lender is not, and they're chasing the rate and it's like that 0.1% doesn't mean anything to you. 00:51:03.049 --> 00:51:18.442 You're talking about a couple of dollars a week, really, and so, yeah, I don't think people should be stressed too much about the interest rates in terms of building a strategy and a plan, and it doesn't really influence your long-term results. 00:51:19.009 --> 00:51:23.036 So your first investment probably was in Geelong, right across the road from Deakin University. 00:51:23.036 --> 00:51:29.201 Yeah, so when you were at uni you used to hung out in the coffee shops and bars, just being a uni student. 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:30.163 Yeah, pretty much. 00:51:30.163 --> 00:51:32.217 I lived in student housing. 00:51:32.217 --> 00:51:37.036 So you actually lived in student housing for three years, yeah, so my first house there was seven of us. 00:51:37.036 --> 00:51:42.427 The second place I lived there was eight people living in the house, like a shared house, or was it like on campus? 00:51:42.427 --> 00:51:44.072 Yeah, or was it like on campus, yeah, no, no, shared house. 00:51:44.072 --> 00:51:46.637 So the on-campus accommodation was very expensive, so we-. 00:51:47.139 --> 00:51:47.960 So who had the lease? 00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:48.661 Someone have a lease. 00:51:48.661 --> 00:51:51.476 Yeah, so they're Eight blokes living in there. 00:51:51.630 --> 00:51:52.614 Yeah, so it's a rooming house. 00:51:52.614 --> 00:51:53.757 Investors own them. 00:51:53.757 --> 00:51:57.219 They're very, very investor-focused products. 00:51:57.949 --> 00:51:59.616 So you had your own room, your own dunny. 00:51:59.616 --> 00:52:01.032 So you have your own room. 00:52:01.032 --> 00:52:02.494 Yeah, okay, you have your own room, yeah. 00:52:02.815 --> 00:52:07.521 And then it's a shared kitchen, shared lounge, shared bathrooms. 00:52:07.761 --> 00:52:09.344 But everyone's got their own lease on their thing. 00:52:09.465 --> 00:52:11.356 Correct, it's individual leases per room. 00:52:11.356 --> 00:52:12.712 Was it like trumple? 00:52:12.712 --> 00:52:14.257 It did Good fun? 00:52:14.257 --> 00:52:15.320 It's definitely good fun. 00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:21.152 You meet people that you'd never meet in your life and you would never cross paths with them, and then you end up being good friends with these people. 00:52:21.152 --> 00:52:29.719 Some of these people came to my wedding and you just, yeah, you go to university, you come back and you just muck around, you play cards and you have, you know, muck around, be uni students. 00:52:30.019 --> 00:52:41.980 Yeah, you're a uni student, so despite you building some whiz-bang spreadsheet which sounds like it's propelled you into you know, giving you the sophistication of making informed investment decisions. 00:52:41.980 --> 00:52:44.711 Now you bought your first property, interstate in Geelong, yeah, you know. 00:52:44.711 --> 00:52:45.976 So you bought interstate. 00:52:45.976 --> 00:52:57.856 Compared to where you grew up in Sydney, you know, when you know sort of conclude on this point like investing outside of what you know, like that's a mindset thing, but I imagine it's probably pretty fundamental. 00:52:57.856 --> 00:53:00.257 You don't have to invest in Sydney if you grew up in Sydney. 00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:01.199 Yeah, for sure. 00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:05.777 I mean, I own multiple properties and I don't own any properties in Sydney even to now. 00:53:06.096 --> 00:53:08.641 Is that because it just hasn't been the right environment to buy? 00:53:08.721 --> 00:53:19.969 Yeah, it just hasn't made sense for our portfolio and yeah, the environment, the cost involved and the returns were just superior elsewhere at the time when we were buying and based off the data. 00:53:19.969 --> 00:53:29.280 So that Geelong property I guess was slightly coincidental that I was in Geelong because I still made that purchase based off the data and information that I had. 00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:37.077 But Sydney and people say, oh, I want to buy in Sydney because I know Sydney or whatever, and you don't really know Sydney. 00:53:37.077 --> 00:53:42.896 You know where the shops are and whatnot, but you don't know the data behind it, unless you know the data but you know it. 00:53:42.896 --> 00:53:45.692 But if you don't know the data, you don't really know Sydney. 00:53:46.192 --> 00:53:57.123 And then not just Sydney, sydney is so many suburbs in Sydney where we're recording and where I live and where I used to have that restaurant, all very different markets and they will all perform very differently. 00:53:57.123 --> 00:54:01.846 So we don't necessarily think Sydney is bad, we don't necessarily think Sydney is good. 00:54:01.846 --> 00:54:05.637 It is dependent on the person that's purchasing that property. 00:54:05.637 --> 00:54:14.136 And so when we run the data analysis and we find we're finding and again a lot of our clients are 700 to a million kind of range or 1.1. 00:54:14.136 --> 00:54:22.360 A lot of these people will end up purchasing outside of Sydney because the returns are just much better in both growth and yield. 00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:30.077 If I'm going to get a very similar growth return to Sydney and one's going to pay me a bit more rent, well, what would I buy in Sydney for Makes sense? 00:54:30.257 --> 00:54:31.400 Yeah, that's good. 00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:32.402

Well, thanks for coming in, krillis. 00:54:32.402 --> 00:54:46.079 I've enjoyed chatting with you, mate, and it's good to actually sort of for us to simplify a lot of these terms and concepts around it all, because investing probably ain't that hard, yeah, the key thing is time, yeah, and making sure your first property is the right property. 00:54:46.121 --> 00:54:47.021 Yeah, that's it. 00:54:47.021 --> 00:54:48.244 Well, thank you very much for having me. 00:54:48.244 --> 00:54:49.085 Yeah, it's good to see you, mate. 00:54:50.164 --> 00:55:00.393 It sounds like you're building a great little business or what potentially a big business while also investing in property Self's first brick property buyers agency. 00:55:00.393 --> 00:55:01.173 How do people track you down? 00:55:01.173 --> 00:55:02.295 What's the best way to find you, mate? 00:55:02.635 --> 00:55:08.884 We're on social, we're on every social, and I think we probably post more content than any other buyers agency in this country. 00:55:09.485 --> 00:55:12.409 My face is just blasted all over social media? 00:55:12.409 --> 00:55:13.190 Do you get much hate mail? 00:55:13.190 --> 00:55:15.320 Do people sort of complain to you saying this guy. 00:55:15.731 --> 00:55:20.217 We get a bit on TikTok, not so much everywhere else, but TikTok's a strange one, to be honest. 00:55:20.217 --> 00:55:30.067 Yeah, I don't know how many serious property investors are hanging around TikTok, yeah but it's not too hard to share a post onto TikTok anyway, once you've done it for Instagram and Facebook and. 00:55:30.067 --> 00:55:31.007 Linkedin and YouTube. 00:55:31.007 --> 00:55:32.516 So it's just an extra button. 00:55:32.516 --> 00:55:33.373 So we do it. 00:55:33.373 --> 00:55:34.697 But yeah, we're everywhere. 00:55:34.697 --> 00:55:38.317 So if you search First Brick, just write First Brick, property, on any platform. 00:55:38.317 --> 00:55:39.360 We'll pop up, we'll track it down, yeah. 00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:39.761 There you go. 00:55:39.761 --> 00:55:41.103 All right, you heard me first. 00:55:41.103 --> 00:55:43.344 I hope you enjoyed that everyone. 00:55:43.344 --> 00:55:45.645 We'll get Krillis back to have a chat at some point as well. 00:55:45.645 --> 00:55:49.835 I think getting some more of these concepts and terms, lots of other discussions like this. 00:55:49.835 --> 00:55:52.244 You can go and check it out on smartprontyinvestmentcom. 00:55:52.244 --> 00:55:53.090 Krillis is going to do me a favour. 00:55:53.090 --> 00:55:55.237 You're going to leave a review on the SmartPronty Investment Show. 00:55:55.590 --> 00:55:56.614 I did it like four years ago. 00:55:56.614 --> 00:55:57.056 Did you? 00:55:57.056 --> 00:56:01.273 Yeah, tell your friends. 00:56:01.313 --> 00:56:04.134 Then On Apple and Spotify yeah, reviews please. 00:56:04.134 --> 00:56:06.076 That's the only thing I ask for. 00:56:06.076 --> 00:56:12.081 I don't ask for a lot, but I'm told by my team here I've got to keep asking for reviews and stuff. 00:56:12.081 --> 00:56:14.043 So I'll be looking out for them. 00:56:14.043 --> 00:56:15.264 I get a kick out of them as well. 00:56:15.264 --> 00:56:15.545 It's good. 00:56:15.545 --> 00:56:17.286 So do the team, who I'm not like. 00:56:17.286 --> 00:56:20.556 They get to sit behind the microphone and do all the talking, but everyone else does the hard work. 00:56:20.556 --> 00:56:26.978 They get great satisfaction, knowing that what we're doing actually makes a difference. 00:56:26.978 --> 00:56:28.786 You can find us at smartpropertyinvestmentcomau Social media. 00:56:28.786 --> 00:56:30.773 Look for us, just smart property, you'll track us down. 00:56:30.773 --> 00:56:31.635 We'll see you again next time. 00:56:31.635 --> 00:56:32.358 Until then, bye-bye. 00:56:32.630 --> 00:56:39.740 The information featured in this podcast is general in nature and does not take into consideration your financial situation or individual needs, and should not be relied upon. 00:56:39.740 --> 00:56:52.261 Before making any investment, insurance, tax, property or financial planning decision, you should consult a licensed professional who can advise whether your decision is appropriate for you. 00:56:52.261 --> 00:56:54.509 Guests appearing on this podcast may have a commercial relationship with the companies mentioned.