النص الكامل لحلقة Mark Shaw - Collateral Damage - The Mysterious Deaths of Marilyn Monroe and Dorothy Kilgallen

00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.319 Yes, excellent, excellently forward to that now. I know also too, 72 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.360 in your work on the Dorothy Kilgallen case, you're always 73 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:01.479 putting a lot of pressure on the prosecutors in New 74 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:04.639 York and the NYPD commissioner. What's the update on that? 75 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:09.639 Well, you know, it's been a long road, and last 76 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:11.960 night I was even going through some of the files 77 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:18.439 and looking at this journey that I've taken. I've said before, Ed, 78 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:21.319 I think for whatever reason, Dorothy decided that I was 79 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.800 to write her story. People will talk about that, but 80 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:29.040 obviously she was the most credible reporter to have ever 81 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.959 investigated the jfk assassination. She was at the trial of 82 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:36.839 Jack Ruby and interviewed him a couple times she exposed 83 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:40.160 his Warren Commission testimony before it was supposed to be published, 84 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.279 and then she launched this eighteen month investigation into the 85 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:50.279 JFK assassination. And then unfortunately, in November of nineteen sixty five, 86 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:52.120 she was found dead. And we can go into some 87 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:54.720 of the details about her death that are in the 88 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:58.480 Reporter Who Knew Too Much and denial of justice, stage, 89 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:01.040 death scene and all of that. When that book came out, 90 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:04.079 A Reporter who Knew Too Much, I decided, because there 91 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:07.040 was no investigation of her death in nineteen sixty five, 92 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:10.560 if I could get Cyrus Fans Junior the New York 93 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:15.079 City District Attorney's Office to investigate, and lo and behold, 94 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.680 the New York Post announced that they were going to 95 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.800 do that, and they promised a thorough investigation. There were 96 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:24.720 almost two hundred and fifty thousand hits on the New 97 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.959 York Post online article, and off we went. And so 98 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:33.680 I spent a great deal of time informing a detective 99 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:36.800 by the name of Ramos, who was assigned by the 100 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.040 DA's office to work with me and look into Dorothy's death. 101 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.040 I ended up finally flying to New York and met 102 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.920 with Detective Ramos and went ahead and gave him a 103 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:52.279 seventy page evidence report and all the reasons why it 104 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:56.240 was a homicide, not

one barbituate inner system, but three 105 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:00.120 wasn't an accidentally death, accidental death and all of that 106 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:02.680 and more than that pointed out to him that there 107 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.680 was a main suspect in Dorothy's death named Ron Pattacki, 108 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.759 who was still alive and living in Columbus, Ohio. Well, 109 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.959 I floated back to San Francisco from New York because 110 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.600 I was so excited, and so was the detective. He 111 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:19.879 was telling me all about his father watching What's My 112 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:23.319 Line shows with Dorothy on them, and he had already 113 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.720 sent out subpoenas and all of that, and so I 114 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.160 just really felt like that we were on the right track. 115 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:31.399 And so we went along for a few months, and 116 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:36.120 then we got to August of nineteen excuse me, twenty seventeen, 117 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.279 and the detective told me that he and the main prosecutor, 118 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:42.399 a sign of the case, wanted to talk to me. 119 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.600 And I don't know why, I was a little dubious, 120 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.759 but we got on the telephone and this guy named 121 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.439 Eugene Hurley, an assistant DA, started telling me that they 122 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.199 were stopping the investigation. They hadn't been able to show 123 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:56.959 there was harm to Dorothy and so on and so 124 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:00.000 forth there, and I just was so shocked. I started 125 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.040 arguing with him, and he said, well, mister Shaw, we're 126 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.839 not going to argue with you. Besides, we don't know 127 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.160 who did it. That's an exact quote. We don't know 128 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:13.000 who did it, which obviously had meant that they knew 129 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.920 it was a homicide. So I appealed, you know, I 130 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.959 went forward and filed a freedom of information request for 131 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.639 documents and witnesses and statements and things like that. I 132 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:28.120 got nothing from them. I appealed it. I went to 133 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.639 the New York State Attorney General, I went to the governor. 134 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:35.680 I went to everybody, but I couldn't get it turned around. Well. 135 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:39.079 I finally decided that because of some new evidence that 136 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.360 we can talk about that incriminated Pataki more than anything. 137 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:47.680 I decided to launch another adventure into getting an investigation 138 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:52.079 with New York

Police Commissioner Dermot sha And in February 139 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:55.519 of this year, I went back to New York. He 140 00:07:55.639 --> 00:08:00.360 was speaking at a police Athletic Activities paled luncheon. I 141 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.639 went there. I bought a ticket and I listened to 142 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:06.240 him because he was the featured speaker, and during the 143 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:08.800 Q and A afterwards, I asked him about cold case 144 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.800 cold case cases and told, you know, it reminded him 145 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:17.040 that I'd send him a letter asking him to assign 146 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.480 Dorothy's case to their cold case squad and all of that. 147 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:22.680 And I said, you know, what are you doing about 148 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:25.600 these cold case squad cases he's in. They're very important. 149 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.920 I know about your Dorothy Kilgallon request, and why don't 150 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:31.639 you come up and talk to me afterwards? And so 151 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.360 I did, and I went up there. I was very 152 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.320 patient and I went up to him. I said, listen, thanks, 153 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:38.639 is there somebody in your office that I can work 154 00:08:38.679 --> 00:08:41.840 with on this investigation? And he introduced me to Detective 155 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.919 Jonathan Rivera, a tall guy, good looking guy, you know, formidable, 156 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:51.120 And so I started talking to him, and the commissioner 157 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:53.799 asked him Rivera to give me his business card, which 158 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:58.200 I have here now, and so I just again, I 159 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.480 floated back to San Francisco because I thought, I'm going 160 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.559 to get my investigation. Well. I went ahead and said, 161 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:06.960 sent one email to Rivera, then two, then three, then four, 162 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.320 then five. No response, whatsoever. I finally left a telephone 163 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:14.600 message with him asking him to get in touch with me, 164 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.879 and he did not, And I think I soon realized 165 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:21.799 that Commissioner Shay, for whatever reason, was playing me the fool. 166 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.919 He had no intention whatsoever of having Rivera, who he 167 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.120 had put in the middle of all this, which bothers 168 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.360 me probably more than anything, putting the detective in a 169 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.000 no win situation by probably telling him or not probably 170 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.799 telling him not to communicate with me when Shay had 171 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:42.799 promised me that would happen. So I was really upset 172 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:44.960 with that. I wrote Shay a couple more letters, just 173 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:46.960 asking him whether he was a man of his word 174 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:49.559 or a liar. I didn't hear from him again, and 175 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.440 so I filed on October seventh at a complaint with 176 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.480 what they call the Inspector General for the NYPD, and 177 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:04.720 they investigated allegations of wrongdoing with the police department, but 178 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.559 also with civilians in the police department. And that's what 179 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.039 Shay is now. He's no longer a police officer, he's 180 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:15.360 a civilian. I filed that on October seventh. I've been 181 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.360 told that they will get back to me next month 182 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:22.480 with regard to my allegations of misconduct by the Commissioner 183 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:24.840 in the way that he treated me by promised me, 184 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.960 promising me one thing and doing another. And also abuse 185 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:33.080 of authority because as I say, he somehow or another 186 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:38.879 put Detective Rivera in a terrible situation and under his 187 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:43.080 command Detective Rivera, he did that, and so I allege 188 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.759 that in my complaint and hopefully I'll get a fair 189 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:49.639 shake from that Inspector General's office. And if I don't, 190 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:51.960 then I'm going to take both of these situations with 191 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.399 Vance Junior and Commissioner shay to Latita Jones who is 192 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.240 now the New York General Attorney General and known for 193 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:03.799 you know, really looking into these kinds of situations. But 194 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:05.600 I'm going to keep the faith that maybe I'll get 195 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:10.000 a fair shake from the inspender ex Inspector General's office 196 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:12.919 and that will lead to an investigation of Dorothy's death. 197 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:16.120 Mark, let me ask you this, because I get updates 198 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.279 from you, you know someone your mailing ones. How can 199 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:21.679 people get on your list there to get these updates? Oh, 200 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:22.879 because I'm sure a lot of people sitting on the 201 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.279 edge of their seat they want to see what happens 202 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:24.840 in December. 203 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:30.240 Well, That's very important because with each one of my books, 204 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:33.320 I've probably gotten at least I don't know, twenty five 205 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:36.080 hundred to three thousand emails from people around the world. 206 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.440 And we've read my books, watched

my presentations like ones 207 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:44.080 with You on YouTube. There's almost two million views of those. 208 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:49.159 And I get tips from people. I'm getting them continuing now, 209 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.519 some tip the other day that I'm going to look 210 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:54.240 into from people. So the best way is to go 211 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.080 to Markshawbooks dot com markshawbooks dot com and there's a 212 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:00.399 place to sign up for the newsletter and sent one 213 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.600 out yesterday and I think you've got a copy, of course, 214 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:07.600 And so that's the best way. And then I promise 215 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.440 people they send me an email, I get back to him. 216 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.000 I have never, you know, not done that, and I 217 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.840 think it's important. If they're going to take the time 218 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:19.279 to email me, then I'm going to get back to them. 219 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:22.600 And as I say, I would encourage people, maybe they 220 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.200 knew Dorothy kill Gallen, maybe they knew something about her death, 221 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.919 and with the new book, maybe they knew something about 222 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:33.080 Marilyn Monroe. So I encourage people to get in touch 223 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:33.360 with me. 224 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.120 Yeah, And I encourage people to to go back to 225 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:39.879 our previous interviews on spreaker dot com, because we've spent 226 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:43.600 two hours on this and it's not like this is 227 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.720 a guy who's an author, you know, and researches different topics. 228 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.879 Mark Shaw has really devoted a significant portion of his 229 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.000 life to investigating the case of Dorothy Kill Gallon and 230 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.600 then wrote books about it. You know, he's really in 231 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.279 up to his neck in this, and his heart is 232 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.600 really there's always an expression you use when you talk 233 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:03.720 about this, about the dead crying out. What is it? 234 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:09.279 Well, I found this quote recently and I'd never seen 235 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:14.799 it before. It's by acclaimed novelist named Bougeau, and it 236 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:18.639 basically is, the dead cannot cry out for justice. It 237 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.679 is the duty of the living to do that for them. 238 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:25.879 And I have it. I'm looking at it because it's 239 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:28.200 taped on my wall right by my computer, and I 240 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.720 look at it every day. You know, many people ed 241 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.600 you know. You're a historian, You're a man of the truth. 242 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.840 You know how important history is. People say, well, Mark, 243 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:40.200 come on, this happened in nineteen sixty five, and we 244 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.399 have the assassination in sixty three. Maryland died in sixty two, 245 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:47.360 who gives you know, a darn and I say to them, well, 246 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.320 it's all about history, and there's so many distortions of 247 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:53.440 history out there, for heaven's sakes. In the new book, 248 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:56.240 I point out again that the sixth Floor Museum in 249 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:01.919 Dallas has become an Oswald shrine thing in that in 250 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:06.159 that museum anymore, except the fact that Oswald killed jfk 251 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:09.320 All by himself, all the books are tilted that way. 252 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.480 It's really disappointing because that's a distortion of history. And 253 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.679 I've really objected to that because young people come through 254 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.960 that and are brain brainwashed with that kind of information. 255 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:22.720 And if it's the last thing I do before I 256 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.639 pass on to the here ever, I'm gonna I'm gonna 257 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:28.519 put that darn museum museum out of business. 258 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:32.360 I think another issue with all this is that people 259 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.120 dismiss kill Gallon as well. She was what's my line, 260 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.200 she was a game show. It was a but people 261 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:40.159 really got to go back to buy these books and 262 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:44.799 really really here that it's very thoroughly investigated and researched 263 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:48.039 the murder of Dorothy kill Gallen. But now let's move 264 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.639 on to collateral damage. The mysterious deaths of Marilyn Monroe 265 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:56.240 and Dorothy kill Gallen. What's gives an idea? What's the 266 00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:57.919 book about, Well. 267 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:01.039 It's it's it's interesting, you know, ed kind of progression here. 268 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.360 My first book I wrote about anything having to do 269 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.279 with the assassination was a biography of Melvin Belli, who 270 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.720 represented Jack Ruby. And when I found out about his 271 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.759 mafia ties, then I thought, okay, well, I'm going to 272 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:14.840 go back to the sixty election and look into Joe 273 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:18.159 Kennedy and fixing the election and the whole you know, 274 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.000 promise to the mobsters they'd leave them alone if they 275 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.960 got in the White

House, and then they double crossed 276 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.679 him and Bobby Kennedy became Attorney General, and then JFK 277 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.639 was killed by those I believe, those enemies of Bobby's 278 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:34.080 who wanted to make Bobby powerless. And so I looked 279 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.720 into all of that with a poisoned patriarch, and then 280 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.600 I landed on a story about Dorothy Kilgallan. I didn't 281 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.919 know anything about her ed except that she was a 282 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.120 star panelist on What's My Line, a quiz show that 283 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.759 was on CBS for fifteen years in the fifties and sixties, 284 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:54.039 And so you know, I basically had no knowledge of 285 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:56.840 anything about her with the jfk assassination. But when I 286 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:01.519 was interviewing a friend of Melvin Belly's for that first book, 287 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.840 King of the Courtroom, this guy said to me, well, 288 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.559 you know, Bell, I knew Dorothy kill Gallen. And I said, oh, 289 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.080 come on, from what's my line? The quiz show where 290 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.759 they guessed people's unusual occupations in the market, you don't 291 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:17.360 know anything about her. She was syndicated to two hundred 292 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:20.240 newspapers across the country with her column in the New 293 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.759 York Journal America. She had a radio show listened to, 294 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.679 you know, by a million people a day. She covered 295 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.919 the Lindbergh baby kidnapping case, the doctor Sam Shephard case 296 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.799 which became the Fugitive, and the Jack Ruby trial. Mark, 297 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.200 and I said, oh, my goodness, and that's what I 298 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.960 when I started to look into Dorothy Killgallen. And so 299 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:44.440 I wrote The Reporter Who Knew Too Much, which became 300 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:47.120 a bestseller, and then Denial of Justice, and I was 301 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:51.159 done again. But people, these these readers and those who 302 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.240 have watched the presentations and hear me on shows like yours, 303 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:58.639 ed kept saying to me, Mark A question, was Dorothy 304 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.559 Killgallen's death connected to Marilyn Monrose or it was Marilyn 305 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.039 Monrose connected to Dorothy kill Gallen. And I never thought 306 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:12.920 that really was except when I discovered what may surprise 307 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:18.039 some of your listeners is if those three people, Meril Monroe, JFK, 308 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.359 and Dorothy kill Gallen died within forty months of each other. 309 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:27.160 Maryland was August of sixty two, JFK was November of 310 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.240 sixty three, and Dorothy died in November of sixty five. 311 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.960 They all died at a real young age. And so 312 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.160 I started looking into this, and it was amazing because 313 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.759 once I did, I just could tell that there was 314 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.799 a connection of some sort. And I'll tell you the 315 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.880 first thing that really came to mind, and I explore 316 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.720 this a great deal in the new book, Collateral Damage, 317 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.400 which will be out in April, and that is the 318 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:58.000 death scenes with each of JFK, with Maryland, and especially 319 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.359 with Dorothy and Maryland because they both died alone in 320 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:08.359 the bedroom. They both were allegedly died of overdoses of barbituates, 321 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:14.000 although while Dorothy's was called accidental, Maryland's was called probable homicide. 322 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:19.480 I'm sorry, probable suicide, which I will completely destroy that 323 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.240 view in the new book. And also I went to 324 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.240 look at the autopsies. Of course JFK. We know about 325 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.559 the crime scene, there was everything that happened after that 326 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:35.000 was was compromised. So I then looked at the autopsies 327 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.720 and if you look at them, their similarity for sure. 328 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:42.000 And the first one of course to look at is Marylands. Well, 329 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.000 that was done by at the time a very famous 330 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:50.920 medical examiner named Thomas in Thomas Negucci's office. He wasn't 331 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.039 famous at that time, but he's was a junior medical 332 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:59.000 examiner assigned the case, and he's the one that admitted 333 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:03.599 later that he he botched the autopsy and there were 334 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.119 several reasons why he did that. In Dorothy Kilgallen's case, 335 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.559 they said she accidentally died, but the autopsy, again by 336 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.559 a junior medical examiner, never took into account that there 337 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:17.799 were three barbituates in her system, not one. And then 338 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:19.920 I use as an expert, and if you ever have 339 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.440 a chance, if you haven't already, doctor cyrah Weck, who 340 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:28.079 is the most renowned forensic scientist I think most people 341 00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:31.559 would say in the history of the world. I have 342

00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.920 such respect for him. I've quoted him in each one 343 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:39.920 of my books, and basically he looked at Merilyn Monroe's 344 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.160 autopsy and said that the judgment that was a probab 345 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:49.440 probable suicide. He had never seen that designation in more 346 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:53.799 than fifteen thousand autopsies that he had been involved in. 347 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.519 So I started to connect fee the problems with the autopsies, 348 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.680 and that then led me into looking at the cause 349 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:04.440 of death and how these three people died. 350 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.640 Real quick about the autopsy, and there's a lot of 351 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.599 speculation that some of these barbituates were administered through suppositories. 352 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.119 Was that did that come up in Weck's autopsy? 353 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:18.240 No, it didn't come up in No, it didn't come 354 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.480 up in Nogucci's autopsy at all. Basically, it was that 355 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.039 she swallowed all these pills, so that that didn't happen 356 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:32.799 with Weck. I explore in there his his you know theory, 357 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.799 his analysis of what happened. And there is some positive 358 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.119 information that I will you know expose in the book 359 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:43.480 with regard to what I believe is the most plausible 360 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:48.160 way that Marilyn died. The reason I'm not mentioning and 361 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:50.319 going into it in detail right now is because I'm 362 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.279 still researching that, and i'll have that all a new 363 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:54.960 manuscript for the new book in April. 364 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:58.759 Now, why would Robert Kennedy and John F. Kennedy have 365 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:02.799 a motive to be involved in the death of Marilyn Monroe. 366 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.799 Well, it's interesting, isn't it. That you know Dorothy was 367 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.920 killed because she was too close to the truth and 368 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.200 the JFK assassination. So that's her connection to the Kennedys. 369 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.720 With Marilyn, we go to, you know, you have to 370 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.680 look at her entire body of work. One thing, by 371 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.759 the way, I don't forget to mention, besides looking into 372 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.039 the life and times and the deaths of these three 373 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:31.039 what I would call twentieth century historical icons, I'm humanizing 374 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:35.440 them too often. We just remember, Hey, Marilyn Monroe committed suicide, 375 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.400 Dorothy Kilgallen died of a drug overdose. JFK was assassinated. 376 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:41.480 There's a lot more to those people, and I have 377 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:47.279 taken pains to uncover information about their private lives, and 378 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:51.839 you know, all kinds of information that will give people 379 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.920 a different portrayal of them than all the stereotypical ones 380 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:58.839 that we've gotten in other books. So as far as 381 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:04.799 a Bobby and and JFK came into Maryland's life. We 382 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.319 have to go back to the sixty election because at 383 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:11.319 that particular point, as we recall, JFK defeated Richard Nixon. 384 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.160 And then there was a double cross because I had 385 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:16.920 in the reporter who knew too much in denial of justice, 386 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.000 a witness that were right there when Joe Kennedy ordered 387 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:24.079 JFK to appoint Bobby Kennedy attorney general, which was completely 388 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.680 against everything they had told the underworld figures who had 389 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.720 helped them win the sixty election by fixing the vote 390 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:34.759 in Illinois and West Virginia. And so we go back 391 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.400 to that time, and now Bobby Kennedy is Attorney general, 392 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.680 and he's what we would arguably call the second most 393 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.799 powerful man in the United States of America, next to 394 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.519 his brother JFK. So what does Bobby do. Well, he 395 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:51.559 goes after those mafioso and one of them is Carlos Marcello, 396 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:54.279 and he deports him and all of that, and as 397 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:57.079 we get to the end of nineteen sixty three, Marcello's 398 00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:59.400 back is against the wall. I look at motive there 399 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:01.839 and I think I've been able to prove in the 400 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:07.400 books that Marcella orchestrated the JFK assassination. He wanted to 401 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.920 kill Bobby, who he hated, but instead he orchestrated the 402 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.599 death of JFK so Bobby Kennedy would be powerless. And 403 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.559 that's exactly what happened. So that's Bobby Kennedy as of 404 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:24.880 the end of nineteen sixty three. But that powerful stature 405 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:29.119 that he had was evident in nineteen sixty two because 406 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:34.279 during the summer of nineteen sixty two, JFK became embroiled 407 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.640 in a love affair, although short, with Marilyn Monroe. It 408 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:43.680 all happened when Maryland was invited to speak, excuse me, yes, 409

00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:50.720 to speak at a birthday party for JFK at Madison 410 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:54.200 Square Garden. And there's the famous photo that you probably 411 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:58.640 have seen of Maryland standing between Bobby, whose back is 412 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.920 kind of to the camera, and JFK. And this was 413 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.279 after she had been there, and she sang, not only spoke, 414 00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:10.000 but she sang happy Birthday in a sultry dress. I 415 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.880 guess you would call it that didn't show that showed 416 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:17.079 about everything about that wonderful figure of hers and just 417 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.319 absolutely mesmerized the audience. Dorothy Kilgallen in fact wrote about that, 418 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:25.279 saying that Marylyn basically was making love to the audience, 419 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.160 that she was in her wonderful way. And so you know, 420 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:32.160 her career, Maryland's career was at the top. She was 421 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.680 making movies. She had some problems with twentieth Century Fox, 422 00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.720 but she was on the men there, and Dorothy wrote 423 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.839 a bunch of columns about her and how well she 424 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:43.559 was doing and everything. And then we get to the 425 00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:49.400 point where this meeting between the three of those JFK, Bobby, 426 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:52.960 and Maryland is at Madison Square Garden and that's when 427 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:59.079 the first romantic interludes with JFK and Maryland take place. Well, 428 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.559 that goes on for a little while, but then Joe 429 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:06.599 Kennedy basically orders JFK to drop Marylyn because he's worried 430 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:09.359 about the fact that, like all the other women that 431 00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:15.079 JFK was sleeping with, philandering and all of that. You 432 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:18.119 know that this is going to hurt any reelection and 433 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:20.039 all of that other kind of thing. And so those 434 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:23.519 two are done. So we go from that particular point, 435 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.200 and we can take a little time if you want 436 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:29.599 to ask any questions about that particular situation. But then 437 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:32.880 we'll get into the whole relationship between Bobby Kennedy and 438 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:33.799 Marilyn Monroe. 439 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.599 Yeah, get into Bobby and Maryland. 440 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.400 All right. Well, you know you've got Bobby Kennedy there, 441 00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.920 and Marylynd is calling. This is something I've been able 442 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:47.519 to prove, is calling the White House wanting to talk 443 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:49.839 to Jack Kennedy and all of that. He's not taking 444 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.960 her calls and all that, and so she and I 445 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.240 even have a quote that Bobby Kennedy was kind of 446 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:59.240 the person that the women, you know, cried on his 447 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.240 shoulder when JFK. You know, JFK had a lot of 448 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.480 great qualities to him, and I point those out in 449 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.680 the book and everything, but my goodness, he was a 450 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:13.839 womanizer and a sexual addict in many ways, with so 451 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.599 many different women that would take two hours to give 452 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.440 you a list of them. But you know, he had 453 00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:23.559 dumped Maryland, and so what does Maryland do? Well, she 454 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:29.559 cries on Bobby Kennedy's shoulder. Now, you know, it's been interesting. 455 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.279 I have not looked at any books about Marilyn Monroe, 456 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:39.839 any of those written after about nineteen seventy. I did 457 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.599 not want to go back. I use primary sources. I 458 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:45.599 don't want this person told this person, told this person 459 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.640 that kind of evidence. I don't like that. You're like 460 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.160 that too, Ed, you don't like that, and so I 461 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.000 don't use it in my books. And so I was 462 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:53.960 able to find two or three books that have been 463 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:58.960 written shortly after Maryland died in August of nineteen sixty two, 464 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.559 and some articles as well, and that kind of thing, 465 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:07.200 and I use those as my primary research for this 466 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.400 new book, Collateral Damage, comparing the deaths of Maryland, JFK 467 00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:14.519 and Dorothy. And what I was able to find is 468 00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:19.359 that the crying on the shoulder led to more than 469 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:22.920 that with Bobby Kennedy. And while the Kennedys denied it 470 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.519 that anything had happened there and continue to this day, 471 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.079 and all of that I was able to prove through 472 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:35.519 primary source documents and witness statements at the time and 473 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.759 accounts that were in books by two authors, especially that 474 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.119 I heap praise on, because they interviewed people who were 475 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.680 there at the time. They interviewed her psychiatrist and her doctor, 476 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:54.960 They interviewed her best friends, Maryland's they you know this 477 00:27:55.000 -->

00:28:00.640 one gentleman even found documents at the fire pharmacy where 478 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:05.359 Maryland was getting her drugs. You know, all of these 479 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:10.000 different kinds of information showing that Bobby Kennedy had been 480 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.759 in Beverly Hills at the time. You have to remember 481 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:17.319 he had written a book called The Enemy Within, I 482 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.200 believe what it was called, and it was all about 483 00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.039 the gangsters and how terrible they were and everything, and 484 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.039 he was trying to make get a movie made. So 485 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.559 he was in Los Angeles a great deal. And I've 486 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.359 been able to prove that he was seeing Bobby seeing 487 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.319 Marilyn Monroe on a regular basis at Peter Lawford's Malibu 488 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.039 home and so on and so forth. So they had 489 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:39.079 struck up a love affair and it was a sexual affair. 490 00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:43.079 And so now we get to, you know, July August 491 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:46.960 of nineteen sixty two, and what what you find out 492 00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:51.440 is that that relationship has soured because now Bobby Kennedy 493 00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:55.880 doesn't want anything to do with Maryland anymore. And it's 494 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.640 interesting because I like to rely on government documents when 495 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:02.559 I feel like that they are valid, and I was 496 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.240 able to find an FBI memo that is shocking in 497 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:10.680 nature and it basically ties the three individuals in the 498 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.759 book together. One of the interesting parts of that is 499 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:21.039 not only Dorothy but Marilyn, but JFK's interest in UFOs. 500 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.000 And there's some very interesting information that will be in 501 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:28.279 the new book as to how that happened and how 502 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.000 the three of them get tangled up in all of 503 00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.680 this conjecture about whether there are Little Green men or not. 504 00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.079 Dorothy wrote a long article about it and so on 505 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:40.480 and so forth. So I found that FBI memo. But 506 00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:46.960 more than that, then, it really discusses how valid the 507 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:52.079 allegations were that Bobby Kennedy was having this relationship with Marylynd. 508 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:55.440 And so I took that and I started to really 509 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.720 look at the three deaths through Dorothy Kilgallan's eyes. How 510 00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:02.680 would she have invested de gated Marilynd's death? And I 511 00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:05.640

was able to find columns that she had written both 512 00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:08.799 before and after Marylynd's death. It gave me an insight 513 00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:12.440 into what was happening and why she had real doubts 514 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:17.039 about Marylyn having committed suicide, and how she believed, as 515 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.160 she called it, the man in her life was actually 516 00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:25.240 Bobby Kennedy. So that that gave me, you know, an 517 00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:29.240 interesting view. I always looked at JFK's assassination as why 518 00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:33.079 Bobby Kennedy wasn't killed instead of why JFK was, And 519 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.839 that changes everything. Well, when you look at Marilynn Rose death, 520 00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.400 you need to look at motif if she in fact 521 00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:45.720 was killed, then who would have had the greatest motive 522 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:50.160 to have done that at the time. Well, unfortunately, Marilyn 523 00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:56.359 and Dorothy had another, you know, connection, another similarity of many. 524 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.480 I think there are more than fifty similarities in the 525 00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.880 new book. But Marilyn Monroe was a blabermouth and she 526 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.720 started telling people and I have some very strong evidence 527 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:10.359 that I uncovered that she was going to expose both 528 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:14.640 her relationship with JFK and the one with Bobby Kennedy 529 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.720 and any possible national secrets that they may have told her. 530 00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:22.839 As they were both lying on the pillow in a 531 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:27.240 bed somewhere that shed they had talked too much to 532 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.799 her about those kind of things. So she was saying 533 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.640 that at some particular point she might go to the 534 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.319 media with that. Well, why is that a connection with Dorothy, 535 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:39.799 Because Dorothy was telling everyone and this is in both 536 00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:42.279 the Reporter who Knew too Much and denial of justice, 537 00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:46.079 and even more so now in collateral damage, that she 538 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:50.000 was going to crack the JFK assassination wide open. If 539 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.279 the wrong people knew what I know about the JFK assassination, 540 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:55.720 it would cost me my life. I'm afraid for my life. 541 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.240 I bought a gun, all of those things. But she 542 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:03.039 was out there telling the world, and obviously those people 543 00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:06.680 who were involved in the JFK assassination had the motive 544 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.160 to have silenced her because Dorothy was going to put 545 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.480 all of that in a new book she was writing 546 00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:15.720 for Random House. So you got both women, Maryland in 547 00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:19.319 August sixty two and then Dorothy as we get to 548 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:23.920 November sixty five saying way too much. Dorothy was the 549 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.039 reporter who knew too much, and in my opinion, Maryland 550 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:29.599 was the actress who knew too much. And so we 551 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.160 get to the point there where this exposure is going 552 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:36.319 to happen ed and who's going to be who's going 553 00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:39.240 to be harmed with that? Well, I've been able to 554 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:43.480 show through some articles and books and actual accounts at 555 00:32:43.480 --> 00:32:45.960 the time, there's only one person you can point to, 556 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:47.559 and that is Bobby Kennedy. 557 00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:50.599 Mark. In your research on this, did you look into 558 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:54.599 the incidents at the cow Never Lodge. 559 00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:57.519 I'll tell you what, Ed, I'm always amazed at you 560 00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:01.119 and your research. You're way ahead of me. Actually, yes, 561 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.440 I certainly did. And you know, there's there's been a 562 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.000 lot of conjecture about what happened. For for those that 563 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:10.720 aren't familiar, there was the cal Ney the lodge on 564 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:13.640 the border of It's on the border, in fact, it's 565 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.119 it's uh it finally just reopened. Uh. It's interesting to 566 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.559 know somebody took it over. But it's on the the 567 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:26.480 border of Nevada. Uh Nevada, Yeah, Nevada, and uh and 568 00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:30.680 California by Lake Tahoe. And uh. This was a place 569 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.720 that was infiltrated by a lot of visited by a 570 00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.799 lot of gangsters. Supposedly, Joe Kennedy had had an interest 571 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.000 in it, Frank Sinatra had an interest Sam g and 572 00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:44.359 Kanna the gangster had an interest in it. The rat pack. 573 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.400 That's where they were all up there, you know, Uh, 574 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.279 you know, all of them, Sammy Davis and Peter Lawford 575 00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.240 and all those and and of course uh, Frank Sinatra 576 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.319 and so the the conjecture was that Marilyn Monroe was 577 00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:03.720 there the weekend before she died, and we've never quite 578 00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:08.599 been able to uncover exactly what happened, and just recently 579 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.840 I've been able to come up with some primary source

evidence, 580 00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:13.400 and so I think I'll be able to prove in 581 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.559 the book, and I'll be able to give this and 582 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:17.800 give you more information about that as we get closer 583 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.119 to the book coming out as to exactly what happened 584 00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:24.360 up there. But there's no question in my mind that 585 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:29.239 again Marilyn was talking too much. She was disappointed JFKA 586 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.480 Dumpter than our FKA Dumpter, and she was at her 587 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:35.679 wits end. Everything else in her life was really going 588 00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:39.119 along well. In fact, she believed at some particular point 589 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:42.880 that she might even remarry Joe DiMaggio, and so everything 590 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.480 was going well, but there was this black cloud hanging 591 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:48.480 over her life. And that was this whole situation with 592 00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:51.840 Bobby Kennedy because she felt like she was being used. 593 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.079 I don't know why. It just came to me that's 594 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:57.280 how I feel about Commissioner Shay, that he just used 595 00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.760 me in many ways. And Mark go away and we're 596 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:02.360 not going to you know all this it happens. It's 597 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.960 a terrible feeling. Any human being doesn't like to feel 598 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.519 like they're being used, and that's how Marilyn felt. She 599 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.199 was telling people she felt like a piece of meat. 600 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:14.880 You know, that they were just you know, you know, 601 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:17.599 sharing her and tossing her around and all of that 602 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:19.679 and that kind of thing. And so you can imagine, 603 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.760 and I try to really get into the emotion of this, 604 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.199 because here's the most famous movie actress in the world, 605 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.400 arguably the most beautiful woman who ever lived, with that 606 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:36.719 incredible smile and curvacious figure and all of this, and 607 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.760 and you know, just wants to be as I've found 608 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.679 some writings by Marylyn, wants just to be recognized as 609 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:45.960 a credible actress and all of that. And if you 610 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.239 look at some of those films before she died, the 611 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:52.840 Misfits and and The Seven Year Itch and some of 612 00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.800 those films, you can see that that wonderful way of 613 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.280 hers and everything. And here she is the first the 614 00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:02.239 President won't take her calls, and then Bobby won't take 615 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.480 her calls, and you can just imagine her sitting by 616 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:06.639 the phone crying her eyes out because she was a 617 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:10.079 very emotional woman. She was going through tough times with that, 618 00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:13.480 she was having trouble sleeping and all of that. And 619 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.360 you can just imagine what that was like for her, 620 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.639 and she didn't need to be treated that way, and 621 00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.599 it should have never happened. That should have never happened 622 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:24.519 to Marilyn Monroe. 623 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:26.800 What do you believe happened the day she died? And 624 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:28.480 who do you believe was there and involved? 625 00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:33.559 Well, again, what I've tried to do is separate fact 626 00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:37.480 from fiction here, because there's so many fictional accounts that 627 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:40.760 are based. Okay, I'm going to say this. This is 628 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:46.159 the Rudy Giuliani way of proving of proving things. You 629 00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.599 go out and you make all these statements about fraud 630 00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:51.360 with the election and everything else, and then you have 631 00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.320 actually no proof. And I think yesterday he admitted he'd 632 00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:56.559 exaggerated a lot of that. Well, this is the same 633 00:36:56.599 --> 00:36:59.719 thing that happened in nineteen sixty two with Maryland's death. 634 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:06.119 The crime scene was completely compromised. When her doctor and 635 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:09.519 psychiatrists got there, there was about a few hours before 636 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:13.239 the police were called. It was like Dorothy Kilgallon's crime scene. 637 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:17.079 The same thing happened there, the compromise, and so there's 638 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:21.639 no way to tell exactly what happened in that bedroom 639 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.239 in terms of exactly what Maryland did because there were 640 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:28.840 no eyewitnesses to it, and then they compromised the death scene. 641 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:31.639 But what I've been able to do is is peel 642 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:34.960 away the onion in a lot of ways with going 643 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:41.760 after again those people, authors, respected authors, you know, other 644 00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.320 people who were there at the time, and some new 645 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:47.480 people who have come to me, the daughter of the 646 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.920 real estate agent that sold Maryland's home and others, and 647 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.360 I've been able to piece together and again I'm not 648 00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:55.280 going to be able to

get into too much detail 649 00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:58.519 because I'm still working on this, but I'm going to 650 00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:02.480 be able to give I think the most plausible explanation 651 00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:07.400 for how Maryland died, who was responsible, how the cover 652 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:11.519 up happened in all of that, And as I say, hopefully, 653 00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:14.559 I'm looking for one more piece of evidence that I 654 00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:16.320 think I'll be able to find, and then I'll be 655 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:21.239 able to really come forward with I think a breakthrough 656 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:24.159 in terms of exactly what happened to Maryland and why 657 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.039 in August nineteen sixty two. 658 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:29.840 But right now, if we go to Amazon and we 659 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.400 look up Claudal Damage in the description, you say that 660 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.679 you believe that Robert Kennedy that there's enough evidence to 661 00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:37.119 convict Robert. 662 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:39.800 You know, I don't have any problem with mentioning that. 663 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:44.039 Here's Here's the other thing that I've said on Amazon 664 00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:46.639 in that or you know, Barnes and Noble has it too, 665 00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:50.519 and others will have it in the summary, is that 666 00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:55.159 my belief is that if Robert Kennedy would have been 667 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.119 exposed both with the love affair, but more than that, 668 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.880 with complicity in Dorothy in Maryland's death, and I think 669 00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.400 I've proven that in the book in a number of ways, 670 00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:11.840 then if that would have happened, then his power would 671 00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:14.599 have been neutralized because he would have had to have 672 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:19.920 explained the affair with Maryland. But more than that, because 673 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.039 of the heavy evidence that there was that he was 674 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:25.960 involved in Maryland's death, do again to motive to shut 675 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.519 her up, to not let her tell the world the media, 676 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.920 you know, about the love affairs and any secrets that 677 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.360 were given. If he had been brought to justice as 678 00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.360 he should have been, as I believe it he should 679 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.039 have been based on all that evidence, he would have 680 00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:44.360 been neutralized, and that would have, in turn, you know, 681 00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:49.239 caused those of his enemies, including Marcelo and the others, 682 00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:53.440 to have no reason to have orchestrated the JFK assassination 683 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:57.440 because Bobby's power would have been powerless. His power would 684 00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.280 have been much less. He probably would have to would 685 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:03.679 have to have resigned as Attorney General and everything, And 686 00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:05.920 so what do we have there if he had been 687 00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.000 brought to justice. What my theory is, and people may 688 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.639 disagree with it, but my theory is based on all 689 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:14.559 my research. If he had been brought to justice, there 690 00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:19.199 would never have been the JFK assassination by Bobby's enemies 691 00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:22.320 in nineteen sixty three. And then what do we know? 692 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:25.800 There would have never been Dorothy Kilgallan's investigation of the 693 00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:30.920 JFK assassination because there would have been no assassination. And 694 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.039 that's where you get the trigger effect, the collateral damage 695 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:38.679 to these three individuals based on Bobby Kennedy and Joe 696 00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:44.119 Kennedy's double cross in nineteen sixty in nineteen sixty, in 697 00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:49.119 nineteen sixty one, when Bobby went after those mobsters, and 698 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.599 I could even tell you a quick story I saw firsthand. 699 00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:56.559 When I was with the Good Morning America. They asked 700 00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:00.400 me to go to Philadelphia and interview the lawyer for 701 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:03.719 a mafia don there named Angelo Bruno and I did, 702 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.960 and that interview was on Good Morning America the next morning, 703 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:10.679 and the producer said, Mark, do you think that lawyer 704 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.800 will talk to you again? And so I called his 705 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:17.760 office and this weeping woman answered, and I said, are 706 00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:20.039 you okay? And she said, well, mister Shaw, I guess 707 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:23.920 you don't know when such and such I can't remember 708 00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.480 his name when he started his car this morning. It 709 00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:31.159 blew up. You can't mess around with those guys. And 710 00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:35.079 that's what basically happened with Dorothy Kilgallan's death, and then 711 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:39.280 with regard to Maryland's death, you're in a situation where 712 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:42.760 it all goes back to nineteen sixty when Bobby and 713 00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:46.280 Joe fixed that election and then got the mobsters after them. 714 00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:48.840 And then Bobby, of course was Attorney General and did 715 00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.519 all of that, and that's why he was of the 716 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:54.880 stature that Marilyn Monroe would have

an affair with him, 717 00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:59.199 and when she threatened to expose that affair and whatever, 718 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:04.280 Bobby Kennedy, in my opinion, there's no question was complicit 719 00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:04.840 in her death. 720 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:09.360 In your research, do you believe that Meril Monroe was 721 00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:11.880 raped and drugged up the count Avalanche? And was that 722 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:12.800 a factor in any of. 723 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:16.679 This from what I've been able to discover so far, 724 00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:18.880 and as I say, I've got another month here to 725 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:24.159 really conclude my investigation before I send in the manuscript. No, 726 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:28.280 I don't believe that happened. I think it could have 727 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.920 been planned, it could have been possible. But I've been 728 00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:35.119 able to find, as I say, a couple of good 729 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:39.119 eyewitness accounts of what happened there. I think the threat 730 00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.119 was there, and there was going to be perhaps some 731 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.519 shenanigans with some photos being taken and some other things 732 00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:51.000 that would have caused Marylynd embarrassment. And my feeling, and 733 00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:53.159 I'm still looking in this is that she found out 734 00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:57.440 about those kinds of things, and you know, just put 735 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.639 her again in such a desolate type of a mood 736 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:04.280 because she she just you know, Marilyn wanted to be 737 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:08.320 loved her whole life. If people don't know it, she 738 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:11.000 she basically had no mother in her life or a father, 739 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:15.159 and was scattered around with with foster homes and or 740 00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.599 orphanages and everything. And you know, here was this beautiful 741 00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:22.840 young woman, and you know she wanted to be loved, 742 00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:26.000 and and I will show that in the book through 743 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.440 some of her the new book Collateral Damage, through her 744 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:31.440 writings and and what she told people, and you know, 745 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.679 then she she enters what you can just imagine is 746 00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:39.480 the just the the world of Hollywood Land where women 747 00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:43.199 are just used one after the other, just like with 748 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:46.559 Harvey Weinstein. I mean, it was that kind of atmosphere 749 00:43:46.599 --> 00:43:49.199 she was in, and so she had to overcome all 750 00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.400 of that. And then finally when she was a established star, 751 00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:55.519 all at once two of the most

powerful men in 752 00:43:55.559 --> 00:44:00.679 the world are showing her affection and having romance interludes 753 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.559 with her and all of that, and then they dump her. 754 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:05.840 And so you can just imagine her her psyche at 755 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:09.079 that particular time. And as I say, Marilyn Monroe did 756 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:10.800 not deserve to be treated that way. 757 00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.159 It's funny you mentioned her writings. Do you believe that 758 00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.400 there existed a diary. 759 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:20.039 I don't know about an actual diary. I was able 760 00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:22.840 to find her telephone book and that will be in 761 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.679 the new in the new book, uh, And it just 762 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:28.880 has the numbers of many people, both Robert Kennedy and 763 00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:33.960 jfk Uh There's others that are in there if I recall. Uh. So, 764 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.920 you know, I'm not sure, maybe maybe JFK and RFK 765 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:40.599 aren't in there, but I think so. But anyway, there's 766 00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:42.880 all of the people she was dealing with in the 767 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:50.719 entertainment industry or in there. The diary itself was was 768 00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:53.519 was was present. There's there's no question that she had 769 00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.920 kept a diary. Now it is never surfaced, but there 770 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:01.199 there were notes that she made and things found in 771 00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:03.760 her drawer and some other things that I've been able to, 772 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:08.280 you know, call attention to and then go and do 773 00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:11.480 more research about that. I think will lead people to 774 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:15.320 understand there's one letter that's so important that I've found. 775 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:19.639 And so whether that diary existed, I think there's no 776 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:22.639 question it did. Whether it got into the wrong hands, 777 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.639 into those people that were involved with Bobby Kennedy or whatever, 778 00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.599 there's no way to tell. You know this, many decades 779 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:30.840 after Maryland's. 780 00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:33.880 Death, what about you hear all these stories about wiretaps, 781 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.920 that she was dating mobsters and they were being wiretap 782 00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.480 and even too, there was a conversation that the CIA 783 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:43.039 tapped that came out in a CIA document. CIA was 784 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.400 tapping Home Monroe. What did you discover and all of that. 785 00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.119 Well, Marylynd never dated gangsters that I know of she 786 00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:54.880 got involved with Frank Sinatra, which was just a terrible mistake, 787 00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:59.719 as bad as he was. Yeah, there's been conjecture James 788 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:04.800 Hoffe supposedly wire tapped her home. CIA people wire tapped 789 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:08.559 her home and all of these conversations and everything else 790 00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:13.559 like that were recorded those if they exist, Basically the 791 00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:17.840 recordings have disappeared. How I wish I'd have been alive 792 00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:21.239 and been able to, you know, old enough to be 793 00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:25.280 able to look into Dorothy to Marilyn's death and Dorothy's 794 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:28.639 death and everybody. I wasn't old enough and wasn't involved 795 00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:33.800 in doing any of this then. But those recordings, they've 796 00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:37.079 never surfaced. There is a CIA document that talks about 797 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:41.719 those things, But I think more important will be this 798 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:47.079 FBI memorandum that I'm still working on, because it's pretty 799 00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:52.920 much concrete proof about the relationship between Bobby Kennedy, Jack Kennedy, 800 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:58.400 and Marylyn and some exposures in there that I think 801 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:03.239 will point directly to Bobby Kennedys. As you know, you 802 00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:06.360 have to have to think about Carlos Marcello in nineteen 803 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:10.039 sixty three, his backs against the Wall. Because Bobby Kennedy 804 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:11.760 is trying to deport him, and he's got him in 805 00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:14.159 court in a racketeering charge and everything. He's got to 806 00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:17.559 take action. Well, if you think about Bobby Kennedy, what 807 00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:20.079 did he want to become. He wanted to become president 808 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:23.000 of the United States. In fact, Joe Kennedy at one 809 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:26.920 point believed there could be a dynasty, Joe Kennedy Junior, 810 00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:32.320 then JFK, then Bobby Kennedy, then Ted Kennedy. So you 811 00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:35.320 know JFK, Joe Kennedy Junior died in the war. But 812 00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.480 then JFK is is president. Well what's he thinking. JFK 813 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:42.599 will you know, preside as president for eight years and 814 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:46.920 then Bobby will take over. So that's Bobby's aspirations. He's 815 00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:50.800 he's now become powerful as attorney general. He's showing the 816 00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:54.320 Kennedy family that he's this, you know, he's succeeded, and 817 00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.119 he's going after these mobsters, getting all the headlines and 818 00:47:57.159 --> 00:47:59.760 everything else, and he's going to run for president. Well 819 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.480 it's the problem right now. Well, if this blonde bombshell 820 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:08.280 of Marilyn Monroe, this famous actress, goes to the media 821 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:12.239 and starts talking about their affair and maybe even mentions 822 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.440 a couple of things that Bobby leaked to her on 823 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.960 the pillowcase about national security. He's dead in the water 824 00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:23.880 as far as his political career goes, and so you 825 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:25.960 look at MODI that's what I do as a former 826 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.840 criminal defense lawyer, always look at motive. And there's not 827 00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:32.159 one more single person in the world who had more 828 00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:37.239 motive to kill, to somehow orchestrate the death of Marilyn 829 00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.039 Monroe than Bobby Kennedy in nineteen sixty two. 830 00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.199 We all got about a minute left. But you've got 831 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:45.920 to go to Amazon and pre order collateral damage the 832 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:49.800 mysterious deaths of Marilyn Monroe and Dorothy Kilgallen and the 833 00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:53.000 ties that bind them to Robert Kennedy and the jfk assassination. 834 00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:54.960 But also too, it's really a good idea to go 835 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:57.079 to Markshawbooks dot com and get on the mailing list 836 00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:58.559 because he sends that all kind of great stuff to 837 00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:00.400 keep you up to date. Yeah, I want to leave 838 00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:01.320 us with them one minute. 839 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:04.639 Well, I just again, this is my contribution to history. 840 00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:07.480 All of my books and all of my research are 841 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:11.800 going to be at the Purdue University Archives Special Collections 842 00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:14.960 as of after the first of the year. And so 843 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:17.760 people can do research based on my research. That's what 844 00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:20.960 I'm interested in. I'm interested in the truth like you are, 845 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:24.079 ed and I've always respected you greatly for that. And 846 00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:26.239 that's what we want to find out about history. We 847 00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:28.079 want to find out the truth of what happened and 848 00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:32.159 come as close as we can to exposing that truth 849 00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:33.039 to the public. 850 00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.039 Mark Shure, thank you so much. And anybody to keep 851 00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.159 an eye for a collateral damage. The mysterious Dessamarril Monroe 852 00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:40.880 and Dorothy Colgal, thank you so much. 853 00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:42.559 Thank you, sir. Good name